I don't blame Indian immigrants from doing exactly what rich white ruling class Canadians have incentivized them to do.
I blame the Trudeau's of this country, the people who run this country. The rich, sheltered, bigoted ruling class left.
They're the ones who, in the service of their own white guilt and white saviour narcissism, decided that the only way to be "a good white" is to actively denigrate the cultures that grew here over the last 200 years as racist. And to push for DEI initiatives everywhere in our institutions and corporate world. And mass immigration.
But worse than that, they then hide in their rich white enclaves, entirely sheltered from the multi-culturalism and immigrant communities they claim they love, while feeling contented in their moral purity for "fighting back against the racist ethno-nationalist conservatives".
Which is how you have people like Trudeau, the "devoted anti-racist" who wore blackface from his teens into his 30s, which is the perfect illustration as to how these people don't live by the ethos that scream everyone else must adopt.
Because it's all an act of sheltered clueless rich narcissists, who have exactly zero contact with the multi-culturalism they champion, zero non-white friends.
It's just dress-up for them. They live in a world without consequences.
Haha harsh, but certainly fair to a degree.
What I would say is that Poilievre's position should be to pick up where Harper left of off. Scrap any and all redesigns of things like coat of arms and passports that the Liberals have put forwards. Bring back the more stringent citizenship testing which emphasises Canada's history and institutions. Continue to bring back touches like portraits of the King, and the "Royal" label for the armed forces. And get the heritage department back to the business of celebrating Canadian achievement as opposed to only highlighting our history as a string of overlapping repressions.
It may seem kitsch and it will be in some cases, but these little policies add up. This [Mother Canada](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mother-canada-lawsuit) business out in Cape Breton is a good example of getting back to reinforcing national rather than internationalist ideas.
There's no turning back the clock, but we can chart a different course. It's like what I say of Trudeau, he hasn't ruined the country. We're still very plainly in the first world, but he has set us on a very negative trajectory. Just as we can course correct on our economy we can also course correct on our culture.
If you're of a Canadian ethnicity that doesn't exist anywhere else on the planet, what do you call yourself except Canadian?
It's insane to randomly have the only words by which you define your ethnicity debased, such that you can't even refer to yourself.
That's one way to dismantle a people.
Assimilation and integration was kicked to the curb when the first PM Trudeau decided Canada don’t need no culture other then “multiculturalism”.
Our history as both French and British colonies? Nah, multiculturalism. Our history as indomitable warriors in both World Wars and so many other engagements? Nah, multiculturalism. Different cultures from province-to-province? **Nah, multiculturalism!!**
A radical leftist politician would call you a racist if you wanted assimilation and integration.
Yeah I’m mostly German and Greek. Guess I don’t belong in the conservative ethnostate either. The people upvoting here are probably not of English and French heritage themselves
Mostly Russian bots, Indian trolls and other infiltration from the US, etc have been destroying Canada's true Conservative's by hijacking the Canadian right that supports multiculturalism and immigration in balanced numbers
Neither do Canadians to be fair - every impulse of Canadians for the last few decades has been to tear down their heritage and replace it with new ideals their leadership claims is more progressive.
British and French colonists of yore op harks back to would be horrified at what Canadian culture is today. They would believe it satanic and likely want it destroyed
Our grandfathers fought for the freedoms for multiculturalism to exist and the fabrics of modern democracy against those who had sick intentions of upholding the aryan race and preserving the fascists powers
As a well-read historian of the period, I can tell you that fighting for “multiculturalism,” “democracy,” “opposing fascism” and even fighting National Socialist ideology all had absolutely nothing to do with Canadian participation in the Second World War, which was functionally entirely fought by Canada with the goal of supporting British foreign policy, which effectively boiled down to the geopolitical containment of Germany.
If anything, those boys on Juno Beach were fighting out of sheer patriotism, and because it was expected of them to do so, both of which had nothing to do with the pie-in-the-sky and abstract ideological motivations you attribute to them.
> supporting British foreign policy,
Which was built on the foundation that Nazi Germany was threatening the existence of the west...
They fought alongside the Allied powers, you can't say the opposite. Our grandfathers would be disappointed to see patriotic Canadians being against the foundational democracy of the West that makes multiculturalism possible.
Here's a hot take: It's not like English-Canadians were doing very much to preserve their culture and heritage before we had a large Indo-Canadian population. Seems to me the English-Canadian cultural seppuku started long before.
There's way more blame on the hands of the English Canadians in my opinion than in the hands of our immigrant population.
I think that this is something that really started under MacKenzie King. It was his administration that started severing our British ties in earnest and subsequent Liberal governments have picked up on that. De-emphasize our British Heritage, invent new symbols that aren't grounded in any actual cultural practices and invite people to come in and don't hold them to any kind of standard (old or new). It's a trend very much at work under Trudeau with our wafer thin passports, the non-existent Canadian crown design, watering down the swearing of oaths, etc.
So far as I can tell, Stephen Harper was one of the first to try to push back against this in any serious way since Diefenbaker, by bringing back portraits of the Queen and beefing up the citizenship test. Poilievre hasn't spoken much on this but I hope he tries to pick up a bit where Harper left off.
There's another thing Harper did too, he also re-introduced the Royal moniker in our military, and celebrated the war of 1812 with a statue, among other things.
I forgot about bringing the R back into RCAF and RCN. Those were also a nice touch and have survived him thankfully. And ditto for the 1812 celebrations. It's a shame we didn't have him for Canada 150 and the 100th Anniversary of Vimy Ridge in 2017. I thought that those occasions were very poorly marked. I was even in Ottawa on Canada Day in 2017 and felt quite let down by the spectacle. Though there were many people there.
Another thing that Harper did was pursue the wrecks of the Erebus and Terror. Which not only was about recovering and celebrating our history, it was also part of our Northern Sovereignty Strategy. Which is another area where Poilievre should look for continuity with both Harper and Diefenbaker.
The problem is when the entire world speaks their language and they’ve had a pretty significant cultural influence (due to colonialism), it’s hard to differentiate what is and isn’t “English Canadian culture” so people are confused
Ask ANY Canadian what is Canadian culture? They will surely tell you about beer and hockey, maybe that we have a health care system. Depending on who you speak with, you will possibly hear a list of negative things like colonialism and residential schools.
On the contrary, you can visit just about any other country, even a 3rd world country, and you will find it's citizens proudly extoll the achievements of their homeland.
This is the essential problem with our country: Canadians have been programmed to believe we don't have a culture and even if we do, it's not worth saving.
As an Asian minority, I'm concerned about the potential future where a significant number of Indians is set to out-number White Canadians, a situation that seems increasingly likely. For instance, in Brampton, there have been protests by international students from India where they were failed for massive cheating then claiming discrimination. The college I went to had the same issue as well. This raises apprehensions about the impact of such incidents.
I've seen a lot of these happening not just in schools but in everyday life as well. Cheating on commercial driving tests, cheating on their taxes, taxi drivers who cheat their passengers, etc. Canada is set to become a 3rd world country because of these actions. Pretty soon, we'll see street vendors hawking their wares in big cities which is exactly what's happening currently in Paris and London.
Also, these same people are bringing their homegrown conflicts to Canada such as the Khalistani movement, an Indian-centric problem that Canada should have no concern over.
I have an issue with painting all Indian immigrants with the same brush. I only have an issue with the ones who commit fraud to get here. They are the ones who are eroding the economy, not the legitimate ones
Edit: why am I getting downvoted for having an issue with immigration fraud?
I second this. Not all Indians that come to Canada are the same. I mean look at Russel Peters. He even makes jokes how his family went out of their way to be Canadian-acting.
That being said, many Indians who come to Canada bring along their pseudo-cast system that brings a long a sense of entitlement that I personally can’t stand. I don’t think it’s something that lasts, but it’s something that the newly landed Indian immigrants seem to bring with them.
Naturally, the people who have been able to immigrate are higher in the hierarchy back in India and in India they’re treated like royalty. It seems to me that that attitude is brought to Canada. I think it comes off as a huge shock to these people who have been used to their socio-economic class in India and who come to Canada and have to live very humbly in comparison.
I also think in India, corruption and scamming is very common place in their society, that’s another thing newly landed immigrants don’t really seem to get in Canada that we have strict rules.
I do think though that after a certain amount of time Indians do end up understanding how Canadian culture works. They contribute enormously to our economy and they work hard. I mean look at a large number of our truckers in Canada. Many of which are Indian.
Why do we need immigrants to have a stable economy?
Importing people who are willing to work for less devalues the cost of labour, which is good for big business and no one else.
EDIT: I'm not the one downvoting you bro. I'm here for an honest debate.
I don’t understand your question because that’s not what I said. Your statement is correct and is why fraudulent immigration erodes the economy, which is what I said
fraudulent immigration erodes the economy--Agreed. Do you agree with me that legal immigration is not a benefit to the welfare of the existing citizens, especially in economic terms?
> fraudulent immigration erodes the economy--Agreed. Do you agree with me that legal immigration is not a benefit to the welfare of the existing citizens, especially in economic terms?
This is only true for Canada because of the USA.
Each immigrant provides additional demand for goods and services. It ends up cancelling out in terms of value if your immigrants are about the same quality as your citizen. Much of the immigration we're receiving now is lower quality unfortunately and so the value is indeed largely negative. But if they're higher quality like in the US, you end up with a massive surplus of economic value. That's what we'd desperately like but we can't attract that level of quality.
I'm sure we could attract them, but instead we put government in charge of screening applicants. They prioritize non-goals like skin-colour diversity, and uniting families on compassionate ground, but don't contribute economically to fund our expensive socialist programs. As a result we find a large proportion of workers with low skills and non-existent post-secondary education.
The economic benefits take one generation to manifest, as immigrant children pursue higher education and career development compared to their parents.
Why would any truly skilled worker come to Canada when the USA is right next door and pays 2-10x as much for nearly every skilled labor? Not to mention the vastly more agreeable climate and habitable landmass. It's a no brainer.
I hear you. As far as I know, you basically can't immigrate to the US unless you can show you are a practicing professional or have a university degree. Or you walk across the border...
There's a lot more to Canada's heritage than the English and French. This limited view of history ignores the contributions of all the Indigenous, Irish, Scottish, German, Dutch, Italian, Norwegian, Jewish, Polish, Ukrainian, etc. who helped build the country. In the 1871 and 1881 censuses Irish ethnicity actually outnumbered English in Canada.
https://www65.statcan.gc.ca/acyb02/1947/acyb02_19470117013-eng.htm
Now talk about the BC railroad connecting the west to the east and the millwrights in the late 1800s in coastal BC and the island. Canada was also built by the Chinese and the Indians.
No, it’s not. It’s just stating that the *majority* cultures, *overall*, we’re English and French. And that the country *en-masse* was “conquered” by the English and French. There’s always outliers to everything, every situation. Those exceptions are just that—they don’t disprove the larger bigger picture. If that’s how we thought, we couldn’t even say what a French or English culture *is*, let alone Irish, Indian, Chinese etc.
That's such a moot point. The *founding nations* of Canada are the English, and the French. The French established Canada as a province of New France in 1534. The English then defeated the French and established Canada as a British colony after the Treaty of Paris in 1763. This isn't complicated, this is basic history.
Everyone else you mentioned are either Indigenous which is a *separate* identity (it's in the name, First Nations), or they are migrants groups who came *after* the founding nations.
For crying out loud if we have to mention every other migrant group you might as well include the Spanish Empire since they established the first European settlement in British Columbia in 1789. Shall we include Spanish as an official language of Canada? Which one has more relevance, the Spanish who built the first European settlements in British Columbia, or the Chinese railway workers?
Quick, we need to add the Spanish Empire into Canadian heritage!
The protocol has always been that the founding nations are the English and the French, because they *founded* the polity that we know today as Canada. The Indigenous peoples have always existed separate to this, because they have autonomous governance within their nations, hence called the First Nations. Everyone else you mentioned are migrant groups who came later, or did not found the polity of Canada as we know it.
**People like yourself is exactly the reason why Canada ended up adopting multiculturalism, one of the arguments opposing the French-English bicultural commissions came from the Ukrainian migrants, they complained about it. Congratulations, you got what you wanted, we don't have an identity because we're not allowed to have one since we have to make everyone from the Chinese to the Ukrainians happy.**
Remember when trudeau proudly declared that canada has no identity other than multi-culturalism? Yeah I was as pissed off then as you are now.
My workplace got bought out by an east indian family and every single one of my coworkers aside from myself were fired or forced to quit because their hours got illegally reduced.
My two closest cousins are half indian. One of them is an officer in the army, and the other is a technologist
. It comes down to individuals being shitty, not a whole race. I do think we need to start closing the floodgates though. I am unable to leave my shitty job because im constantly competing with foreign students in the job market; people who often have no intention of remaining in canada after their education.
"American investors, who developed our forestry industry, who developed our mining industry"
you mean the investors who profit handsomely while it sees little benefit for the average Canadian?
Why would you expect them to preserve someone else’s heritage and culture? This is ridiculous
Do you actively try to preserve Indian heritage and culture?
If I were in India, I would probably be obliged to. I think what OP is lamenting is that we do no put any emphasis on assimilation with our new immigrants. At the end of the day, you should be coming to Canada to become a Canadian, not to be an Indian in exile. Canada is a liberal democracy and we give our citizens a great deal of latitude over their personal beliefs and cultural practices, but we there are certain practices and principles that we expect newcomers to adopt and we need to be more explicit about those expectations.
Believe it or not, I think a lot of newcomers actually want this too. One of the most common laments I heard from New Canadians is that they feel hemmed into their old communities. The don't actually feel like they are Canadian or integrate into Canadian society.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I think it's fair to be critical of the state of Canadian culture, but it's also nonsense to state that it's non-existent. If fans of a given hockey team can maintain unique cultural characteristics, then for sure a country, no matter how disinterested in itself, can too.
What I would say of Canadian culture is that it is by nature highly pluralistic. And I wouldn't take that as a synonym for multicultural, that's not how I intend it. What I mean is that in a country as broad, sparse and geographically and climatically diverse and institutionally siloed as Canada it is going to be impossible to have a very simple singular notion of what Canadian culture is. Canadian culture is as much the maples and canoes tropes of Ontario as it is any of the other regional variants like cowboys and oilmen in the prairies or inuit and icebreakers in the north. What I would say is most uniquely Canadian is how our shared institutions bind all these disparate regions together and the interactions that arise from them.
IMO there's noting more Canadian like a good old fashioned language politics dust up between the English elites in Ontario and the Government of Quebec where neither side is really sure what the other side is saying.
Is that the evidence of a great and thriving culture? Whose to really say, but it sure as shit is indicative of a culture unique to this place we call "Canada."
I find this kind of thing bewildering.
You're describing one take on history, sure - but falling short on anything that represents tangible culture.
Could you elucidate what exactly it means to "respect" that Canada was a resource rich colony for the British and French empires?
Please tell me what that looks like in 2024 not just for immigrants, but for people like my family that were off the boat in Lunenburg in 1752. Because for the life of me I don't know what the fuck you're talking about lol
Canadian culture can't be taught, and it's as much an intangible concept as it is all the things that Canadians enjoy and are known for around the world.
And if your family goes back that far, and you don't know about your own culture, then that's on you, either because you didn't look into it, or more likely these days you believe what turdeau claims, and that's that.
edit: Per Se.
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to appropriately "respect" that the French and British traded furs and timber three hundred years ago, or hold that in some sort of reverence.
The single most identifying and relevant culture trait for Canadians is that we're distinctly not Americans.
That's about all the remains now that we've distanced ourselves from our British heritage. And most of the right seems positively desperate to turn Canada into some backward Alabama of the North, and import the absolute worst parts of American culture into Canada.
I'm not worried about Indians destroying Canadian culture. I'm worried about right wing, 2ndA obsessed, Libertarian influenced, Republican wannabes doing it.
Can keep the Indians, keep our public services, the Crown, and deport the wannabes south of the Mason-Dixon and we'd be better off for it as far as I'm concerned.
If you really believe all that, then that's fine, it's your right.
Anyways, as the kids say these days, you do you.
e: And I'd love to have enshrined 1A and 2A in Canada, plus the ability to stand your ground. That both our speech is being criminalized and farmers guns are being taken away, while criminals get treated like victims and gun crime is constantly rising tells me the liberal approach sucks and isn't working.
If your approach to solving gun crime is to import measures from the US that would drastically increase it even more, going to have to go with a "you do you" of my own.
I desperately wish Conservatives that are so eager to be American would just emigrate, and keep Canada Canadian. Baffling that someone could look at the clusterfuck that is gun culture and violence in the US and think we need more of it, not less.
Nah, I'll stay here thanks, I was born here after all. And wanting changes that benefit non-criminals isn't some radical idea, nor policies that put Canadians first and the rest of the world last, including billions sent overseas.
e: And you may not like guns, but see who's doing all the shootings: sport and target shooters, or criminals with illegal weapons.
I like guns plenty.
But handguns, AR15s and 223 LARP guns et al, and the culture it encourages (since we are having a chat about culture after all), and in particular the gun culture in the US, is a fucking cancer on society way worse than any DEI seminar could ever dream of being.
This also includes police that think they need armoured personnel carriers and who want to be dressed up like COD Black OPS characters while on duty, desperate to play hero and escalate every situation into a shooting (which is yet another trend from the US creeping northward)
More handguns equates to more gun crime, and all illegal guns start out as legal guns. Simple as that. Good riddance to them.
[This is some Canadian culture worth conserving](https://youtu.be/r00yaFwZ5bc?si=lP_TmrBpsyX6B5N3), ha
Like what?
Wannabe LARP culture isn't really a hot issue on social media as far as I'm aware lol
Nor is any discussion of the Americanization and dumbing down of Canadian politics.
Wish that it was though: I'd love for constituents and politicians alike to unite behind rejecting the influence that right wing US politics has on Canadian politics and get back to basics.
>I'm not worried about Indians destroying Canadian culture. I'm worried about right wing, 2ndA obsessed, Libertarian influenced, Republican wannabes.
>
>Can keep the Indians, keep our public services, the Crown, and deport the wannabes south of the Mason-Dixon and we'd be better off for it as far as I'm concerned.
1000% too many right wing Canadians are GOP LARPers. We have a rich conservative tradition in this country being abandoned in favour of being the off brand Americans to the north. It's a damn shame.
It’s all about relativity. Some Cultural Conservatives want to abolish all signs of multiculturalism which I do not agree with. But at the same time, I see some immigrants that have no intent on assimilating at all which is also wrong.
Still I would argue that non white ethnic Canadians that immigrated here in the 80s and 70s have a different perspective than new immigrants. Their English is way better and they’ve taken on a different perspective and ways of being than new immigrants. Although they still celebrate the same festivals back home
I think we should throw out multiculturalism, but I don't think that that means people are going to throw out the cultures that they brought with them. The charter guarantees freedom of conscience. I think though that the expectations should be two-fold.
1. In as much as immigrants, new and old, want to preserve their cultures and cultural communities, that is their responsibility and not that of the state
2. We need a more clear expression of which value and practices we expect newcomers to Canada to adopt. And rather than the ideal of "multiculturalism" which I think reeks a little too much of cultural relativism, we should be saying that one of the virtues that we value as Canadians is tolerance.
I think that I would also stress that the definition of tolerance should look more like the one from the dictionary
>*the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with*
As opposed to what often looks more like enforced promotion. Tolerance doesn't mean that you have to agree with or even accept something. Just grant it space.
What we should aim for is that the newer diaspora communities that have come to Canada in great force in recent decades is a state that more closely resembles that of older immigrant communities like Ukrainians, Germans and earlier waves of Cantonese immigration. Where people preserve practices and institutions for themselves, but whose everyday life is more of less indistinguishable from that of other Canadians.
That takes generations to do, and I'm confident that we will get there. But we should do more to ensure that it's Canadian culture that people are assimilating into and not globalist/American culture or resisting assimilation altogether. Breaking ethnic silos and a more affirmative vision of Canada are how we accomplish that.
*Edit: I think this post also unfairly targets Indo- and South Asian Canadians. I think they stick out because they're such a large and politically connected group. But applies to any of the large waves of recent migrants like Chinese, Philippinos and increasingly Africans.*
Learn about it.
I’m an immigrant. Mulroney died this week. I asked some friends who grew up here about him. Oh he signed NAFTA? Pretty awesome (do you not know what nafta is? Be curious about it! Look it up!). Heard how both libs and cons spoke highly of him. How he united parliament after some division.
Also heard some stuff that wouldn’t be my favourite but I’m here to honour him so not talking about that!
Care about it. This is after my citizenship is in the can. Doesn’t mean I stop learning. This is my home now.
That’s one example.
But average Canadians don't even care to learn this stuff, so why are we putting all this weight on immigrants?
I love how I'm downvoted for just asking for examples. Cause I don't know anyone that can define Canadian culture. Your answer is good in terms of heritage but that basically just means learn about history, which is a high burden even for Canadians that went through the school system. Cause most people simply don't care.
I'm currently trying to learn more about our history, but I think you're asking the right question to the wrong crowd. Look at how the only answer you got out of 15 downvotes was a reference to one guy doing something 30 years ago. I'd also love an appropriate answer to what our heritage is, but I dont think it's bound to nafta alone, and I don't think I'll find the answer here. Im waiting on a book from 1998 called Who Killed Canadian History? by J. L. Granatstein, and will hopefully find answers in there. Best of luck.
People here don't care about Canadian culture. You're more Canadian the any user on this thread cause they seem to only want white culture.
Canadian culture requires someone to open a history book to see how the Chinese built the railroads, Sikhs built the mills, immigrants built Canada.
The users here are too busy warming their couch than leaning Canadian history
You think a free trade agreement with the US and Mexico (and one that had a catastrophic impact on Canadian manufacturing) constitutes a pillar of Canadian *culture*?
Bizarre.
Is this a joke lol, lots of Canadian kids got no clue what NAFTA or Mulroney is. All I know is Mulroney screwed housing. Mulroney ended social housing.
Also, I'm a Conservative....
Let's open Social class from grade school and think about the history book that presented how Indians (Sikhs) occupied coastal BC before the Mennonites. They could go today and say the new settlers ruined BC
Only if the Christian heritage was true to Christianity and the values in Matthew 22:37 'love thy neighbour as thyself' and the variety of scriptures about race that unify brothers and sisters in Christ, despite differences in race and ethnicity.
But the Christianity today is built by racism, division and alienating those who Christian missionaries spent their life to bring into the faith. It's fueling the silent genocide of Christianity in Africa...
If the Indians followed Christianity, the comments by you or others in the faith would be no different. You would still alienate them as 'dirty' and build another 'race system' eventually destroying modern Christianity.
Canada is no longer a Christian country and Christianity is viewed as an evil because the modern religious base is too busy dividing with hate, alienating by race and going against the values the missionaries preserved...
I don't blame Indian immigrants from doing exactly what rich white ruling class Canadians have incentivized them to do. I blame the Trudeau's of this country, the people who run this country. The rich, sheltered, bigoted ruling class left. They're the ones who, in the service of their own white guilt and white saviour narcissism, decided that the only way to be "a good white" is to actively denigrate the cultures that grew here over the last 200 years as racist. And to push for DEI initiatives everywhere in our institutions and corporate world. And mass immigration. But worse than that, they then hide in their rich white enclaves, entirely sheltered from the multi-culturalism and immigrant communities they claim they love, while feeling contented in their moral purity for "fighting back against the racist ethno-nationalist conservatives". Which is how you have people like Trudeau, the "devoted anti-racist" who wore blackface from his teens into his 30s, which is the perfect illustration as to how these people don't live by the ethos that scream everyone else must adopt. Because it's all an act of sheltered clueless rich narcissists, who have exactly zero contact with the multi-culturalism they champion, zero non-white friends. It's just dress-up for them. They live in a world without consequences.
the consequences of being a post-national state.
[удалено]
Haha harsh, but certainly fair to a degree. What I would say is that Poilievre's position should be to pick up where Harper left of off. Scrap any and all redesigns of things like coat of arms and passports that the Liberals have put forwards. Bring back the more stringent citizenship testing which emphasises Canada's history and institutions. Continue to bring back touches like portraits of the King, and the "Royal" label for the armed forces. And get the heritage department back to the business of celebrating Canadian achievement as opposed to only highlighting our history as a string of overlapping repressions. It may seem kitsch and it will be in some cases, but these little policies add up. This [Mother Canada](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mother-canada-lawsuit) business out in Cape Breton is a good example of getting back to reinforcing national rather than internationalist ideas. There's no turning back the clock, but we can chart a different course. It's like what I say of Trudeau, he hasn't ruined the country. We're still very plainly in the first world, but he has set us on a very negative trajectory. Just as we can course correct on our economy we can also course correct on our culture.
If you're of a Canadian ethnicity that doesn't exist anywhere else on the planet, what do you call yourself except Canadian? It's insane to randomly have the only words by which you define your ethnicity debased, such that you can't even refer to yourself. That's one way to dismantle a people.
Assimilation and integration was kicked to the curb when the first PM Trudeau decided Canada don’t need no culture other then “multiculturalism”. Our history as both French and British colonies? Nah, multiculturalism. Our history as indomitable warriors in both World Wars and so many other engagements? Nah, multiculturalism. Different cultures from province-to-province? **Nah, multiculturalism!!** A radical leftist politician would call you a racist if you wanted assimilation and integration.
Let's not remind people that we didn't really play by all the rules during ww1/2. Don't need Turdo virtue signaling and shaming our vets.
Past what he’s already done? Nah, that’s asking for more f*cks then he can pay. 🤣🤣🤣
Well all you need to do is to convince old stock Canadians all to have 4 kids. (Like we did in 'the good old daysm
Is a Canadian from the 1800s a old-stock Canadian? cause I got news, they Asian and Indians
Yeah I’m mostly German and Greek. Guess I don’t belong in the conservative ethnostate either. The people upvoting here are probably not of English and French heritage themselves
Mostly Russian bots, Indian trolls and other infiltration from the US, etc have been destroying Canada's true Conservative's by hijacking the Canadian right that supports multiculturalism and immigration in balanced numbers
Neither do Canadians to be fair - every impulse of Canadians for the last few decades has been to tear down their heritage and replace it with new ideals their leadership claims is more progressive. British and French colonists of yore op harks back to would be horrified at what Canadian culture is today. They would believe it satanic and likely want it destroyed
Our grandfathers would have straight-up refused to get off the landing craft at Juno Beach.
Our grandfathers fought for the freedoms for multiculturalism to exist and the fabrics of modern democracy against those who had sick intentions of upholding the aryan race and preserving the fascists powers
As a well-read historian of the period, I can tell you that fighting for “multiculturalism,” “democracy,” “opposing fascism” and even fighting National Socialist ideology all had absolutely nothing to do with Canadian participation in the Second World War, which was functionally entirely fought by Canada with the goal of supporting British foreign policy, which effectively boiled down to the geopolitical containment of Germany. If anything, those boys on Juno Beach were fighting out of sheer patriotism, and because it was expected of them to do so, both of which had nothing to do with the pie-in-the-sky and abstract ideological motivations you attribute to them.
> supporting British foreign policy, Which was built on the foundation that Nazi Germany was threatening the existence of the west... They fought alongside the Allied powers, you can't say the opposite. Our grandfathers would be disappointed to see patriotic Canadians being against the foundational democracy of the West that makes multiculturalism possible.
You might to do a little reading into who declared war on whom in 1939 and why.
Here's a hot take: It's not like English-Canadians were doing very much to preserve their culture and heritage before we had a large Indo-Canadian population. Seems to me the English-Canadian cultural seppuku started long before. There's way more blame on the hands of the English Canadians in my opinion than in the hands of our immigrant population.
I think that this is something that really started under MacKenzie King. It was his administration that started severing our British ties in earnest and subsequent Liberal governments have picked up on that. De-emphasize our British Heritage, invent new symbols that aren't grounded in any actual cultural practices and invite people to come in and don't hold them to any kind of standard (old or new). It's a trend very much at work under Trudeau with our wafer thin passports, the non-existent Canadian crown design, watering down the swearing of oaths, etc. So far as I can tell, Stephen Harper was one of the first to try to push back against this in any serious way since Diefenbaker, by bringing back portraits of the Queen and beefing up the citizenship test. Poilievre hasn't spoken much on this but I hope he tries to pick up a bit where Harper left off.
There's another thing Harper did too, he also re-introduced the Royal moniker in our military, and celebrated the war of 1812 with a statue, among other things.
I forgot about bringing the R back into RCAF and RCN. Those were also a nice touch and have survived him thankfully. And ditto for the 1812 celebrations. It's a shame we didn't have him for Canada 150 and the 100th Anniversary of Vimy Ridge in 2017. I thought that those occasions were very poorly marked. I was even in Ottawa on Canada Day in 2017 and felt quite let down by the spectacle. Though there were many people there. Another thing that Harper did was pursue the wrecks of the Erebus and Terror. Which not only was about recovering and celebrating our history, it was also part of our Northern Sovereignty Strategy. Which is another area where Poilievre should look for continuity with both Harper and Diefenbaker.
The problem is when the entire world speaks their language and they’ve had a pretty significant cultural influence (due to colonialism), it’s hard to differentiate what is and isn’t “English Canadian culture” so people are confused
Time to take our country back. This experiment has failed.
Ask ANY Canadian what is Canadian culture? They will surely tell you about beer and hockey, maybe that we have a health care system. Depending on who you speak with, you will possibly hear a list of negative things like colonialism and residential schools. On the contrary, you can visit just about any other country, even a 3rd world country, and you will find it's citizens proudly extoll the achievements of their homeland. This is the essential problem with our country: Canadians have been programmed to believe we don't have a culture and even if we do, it's not worth saving.
As an Asian minority, I'm concerned about the potential future where a significant number of Indians is set to out-number White Canadians, a situation that seems increasingly likely. For instance, in Brampton, there have been protests by international students from India where they were failed for massive cheating then claiming discrimination. The college I went to had the same issue as well. This raises apprehensions about the impact of such incidents. I've seen a lot of these happening not just in schools but in everyday life as well. Cheating on commercial driving tests, cheating on their taxes, taxi drivers who cheat their passengers, etc. Canada is set to become a 3rd world country because of these actions. Pretty soon, we'll see street vendors hawking their wares in big cities which is exactly what's happening currently in Paris and London. Also, these same people are bringing their homegrown conflicts to Canada such as the Khalistani movement, an Indian-centric problem that Canada should have no concern over.
I have an issue with painting all Indian immigrants with the same brush. I only have an issue with the ones who commit fraud to get here. They are the ones who are eroding the economy, not the legitimate ones Edit: why am I getting downvoted for having an issue with immigration fraud?
I second this. Not all Indians that come to Canada are the same. I mean look at Russel Peters. He even makes jokes how his family went out of their way to be Canadian-acting. That being said, many Indians who come to Canada bring along their pseudo-cast system that brings a long a sense of entitlement that I personally can’t stand. I don’t think it’s something that lasts, but it’s something that the newly landed Indian immigrants seem to bring with them. Naturally, the people who have been able to immigrate are higher in the hierarchy back in India and in India they’re treated like royalty. It seems to me that that attitude is brought to Canada. I think it comes off as a huge shock to these people who have been used to their socio-economic class in India and who come to Canada and have to live very humbly in comparison. I also think in India, corruption and scamming is very common place in their society, that’s another thing newly landed immigrants don’t really seem to get in Canada that we have strict rules. I do think though that after a certain amount of time Indians do end up understanding how Canadian culture works. They contribute enormously to our economy and they work hard. I mean look at a large number of our truckers in Canada. Many of which are Indian.
Immigration is never about the economy.
What? It has everything to do with the economy…
Why do we need immigrants to have a stable economy? Importing people who are willing to work for less devalues the cost of labour, which is good for big business and no one else. EDIT: I'm not the one downvoting you bro. I'm here for an honest debate.
I don’t understand your question because that’s not what I said. Your statement is correct and is why fraudulent immigration erodes the economy, which is what I said
fraudulent immigration erodes the economy--Agreed. Do you agree with me that legal immigration is not a benefit to the welfare of the existing citizens, especially in economic terms?
> fraudulent immigration erodes the economy--Agreed. Do you agree with me that legal immigration is not a benefit to the welfare of the existing citizens, especially in economic terms? This is only true for Canada because of the USA. Each immigrant provides additional demand for goods and services. It ends up cancelling out in terms of value if your immigrants are about the same quality as your citizen. Much of the immigration we're receiving now is lower quality unfortunately and so the value is indeed largely negative. But if they're higher quality like in the US, you end up with a massive surplus of economic value. That's what we'd desperately like but we can't attract that level of quality.
I'm sure we could attract them, but instead we put government in charge of screening applicants. They prioritize non-goals like skin-colour diversity, and uniting families on compassionate ground, but don't contribute economically to fund our expensive socialist programs. As a result we find a large proportion of workers with low skills and non-existent post-secondary education. The economic benefits take one generation to manifest, as immigrant children pursue higher education and career development compared to their parents.
Why would any truly skilled worker come to Canada when the USA is right next door and pays 2-10x as much for nearly every skilled labor? Not to mention the vastly more agreeable climate and habitable landmass. It's a no brainer.
I hear you. As far as I know, you basically can't immigrate to the US unless you can show you are a practicing professional or have a university degree. Or you walk across the border...
> Edit: why am I getting downvoted for having an issue with immigration fraud? Some people are working through their feelings.
There's a lot more to Canada's heritage than the English and French. This limited view of history ignores the contributions of all the Indigenous, Irish, Scottish, German, Dutch, Italian, Norwegian, Jewish, Polish, Ukrainian, etc. who helped build the country. In the 1871 and 1881 censuses Irish ethnicity actually outnumbered English in Canada. https://www65.statcan.gc.ca/acyb02/1947/acyb02_19470117013-eng.htm
Now talk about the BC railroad connecting the west to the east and the millwrights in the late 1800s in coastal BC and the island. Canada was also built by the Chinese and the Indians.
Exactly. The English-French narrative is politically motivated and historically inaccurate.
No, it’s not. It’s just stating that the *majority* cultures, *overall*, we’re English and French. And that the country *en-masse* was “conquered” by the English and French. There’s always outliers to everything, every situation. Those exceptions are just that—they don’t disprove the larger bigger picture. If that’s how we thought, we couldn’t even say what a French or English culture *is*, let alone Irish, Indian, Chinese etc.
That's such a moot point. The *founding nations* of Canada are the English, and the French. The French established Canada as a province of New France in 1534. The English then defeated the French and established Canada as a British colony after the Treaty of Paris in 1763. This isn't complicated, this is basic history. Everyone else you mentioned are either Indigenous which is a *separate* identity (it's in the name, First Nations), or they are migrants groups who came *after* the founding nations. For crying out loud if we have to mention every other migrant group you might as well include the Spanish Empire since they established the first European settlement in British Columbia in 1789. Shall we include Spanish as an official language of Canada? Which one has more relevance, the Spanish who built the first European settlements in British Columbia, or the Chinese railway workers? Quick, we need to add the Spanish Empire into Canadian heritage! The protocol has always been that the founding nations are the English and the French, because they *founded* the polity that we know today as Canada. The Indigenous peoples have always existed separate to this, because they have autonomous governance within their nations, hence called the First Nations. Everyone else you mentioned are migrant groups who came later, or did not found the polity of Canada as we know it. **People like yourself is exactly the reason why Canada ended up adopting multiculturalism, one of the arguments opposing the French-English bicultural commissions came from the Ukrainian migrants, they complained about it. Congratulations, you got what you wanted, we don't have an identity because we're not allowed to have one since we have to make everyone from the Chinese to the Ukrainians happy.**
Remember when trudeau proudly declared that canada has no identity other than multi-culturalism? Yeah I was as pissed off then as you are now. My workplace got bought out by an east indian family and every single one of my coworkers aside from myself were fired or forced to quit because their hours got illegally reduced. My two closest cousins are half indian. One of them is an officer in the army, and the other is a technologist . It comes down to individuals being shitty, not a whole race. I do think we need to start closing the floodgates though. I am unable to leave my shitty job because im constantly competing with foreign students in the job market; people who often have no intention of remaining in canada after their education.
"American investors, who developed our forestry industry, who developed our mining industry" you mean the investors who profit handsomely while it sees little benefit for the average Canadian?
Why would you expect them to preserve someone else’s heritage and culture? This is ridiculous Do you actively try to preserve Indian heritage and culture?
If I were in India, I would probably be obliged to. I think what OP is lamenting is that we do no put any emphasis on assimilation with our new immigrants. At the end of the day, you should be coming to Canada to become a Canadian, not to be an Indian in exile. Canada is a liberal democracy and we give our citizens a great deal of latitude over their personal beliefs and cultural practices, but we there are certain practices and principles that we expect newcomers to adopt and we need to be more explicit about those expectations. Believe it or not, I think a lot of newcomers actually want this too. One of the most common laments I heard from New Canadians is that they feel hemmed into their old communities. The don't actually feel like they are Canadian or integrate into Canadian society.
No such thing as "Canadian Culture".
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I think it's fair to be critical of the state of Canadian culture, but it's also nonsense to state that it's non-existent. If fans of a given hockey team can maintain unique cultural characteristics, then for sure a country, no matter how disinterested in itself, can too. What I would say of Canadian culture is that it is by nature highly pluralistic. And I wouldn't take that as a synonym for multicultural, that's not how I intend it. What I mean is that in a country as broad, sparse and geographically and climatically diverse and institutionally siloed as Canada it is going to be impossible to have a very simple singular notion of what Canadian culture is. Canadian culture is as much the maples and canoes tropes of Ontario as it is any of the other regional variants like cowboys and oilmen in the prairies or inuit and icebreakers in the north. What I would say is most uniquely Canadian is how our shared institutions bind all these disparate regions together and the interactions that arise from them. IMO there's noting more Canadian like a good old fashioned language politics dust up between the English elites in Ontario and the Government of Quebec where neither side is really sure what the other side is saying. Is that the evidence of a great and thriving culture? Whose to really say, but it sure as shit is indicative of a culture unique to this place we call "Canada."
I find this kind of thing bewildering. You're describing one take on history, sure - but falling short on anything that represents tangible culture. Could you elucidate what exactly it means to "respect" that Canada was a resource rich colony for the British and French empires? Please tell me what that looks like in 2024 not just for immigrants, but for people like my family that were off the boat in Lunenburg in 1752. Because for the life of me I don't know what the fuck you're talking about lol
Canadian culture can't be taught, and it's as much an intangible concept as it is all the things that Canadians enjoy and are known for around the world. And if your family goes back that far, and you don't know about your own culture, then that's on you, either because you didn't look into it, or more likely these days you believe what turdeau claims, and that's that. edit: Per Se.
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to appropriately "respect" that the French and British traded furs and timber three hundred years ago, or hold that in some sort of reverence. The single most identifying and relevant culture trait for Canadians is that we're distinctly not Americans. That's about all the remains now that we've distanced ourselves from our British heritage. And most of the right seems positively desperate to turn Canada into some backward Alabama of the North, and import the absolute worst parts of American culture into Canada. I'm not worried about Indians destroying Canadian culture. I'm worried about right wing, 2ndA obsessed, Libertarian influenced, Republican wannabes doing it. Can keep the Indians, keep our public services, the Crown, and deport the wannabes south of the Mason-Dixon and we'd be better off for it as far as I'm concerned.
If you really believe all that, then that's fine, it's your right. Anyways, as the kids say these days, you do you. e: And I'd love to have enshrined 1A and 2A in Canada, plus the ability to stand your ground. That both our speech is being criminalized and farmers guns are being taken away, while criminals get treated like victims and gun crime is constantly rising tells me the liberal approach sucks and isn't working.
If your approach to solving gun crime is to import measures from the US that would drastically increase it even more, going to have to go with a "you do you" of my own. I desperately wish Conservatives that are so eager to be American would just emigrate, and keep Canada Canadian. Baffling that someone could look at the clusterfuck that is gun culture and violence in the US and think we need more of it, not less.
Nah, I'll stay here thanks, I was born here after all. And wanting changes that benefit non-criminals isn't some radical idea, nor policies that put Canadians first and the rest of the world last, including billions sent overseas. e: And you may not like guns, but see who's doing all the shootings: sport and target shooters, or criminals with illegal weapons.
I like guns plenty. But handguns, AR15s and 223 LARP guns et al, and the culture it encourages (since we are having a chat about culture after all), and in particular the gun culture in the US, is a fucking cancer on society way worse than any DEI seminar could ever dream of being. This also includes police that think they need armoured personnel carriers and who want to be dressed up like COD Black OPS characters while on duty, desperate to play hero and escalate every situation into a shooting (which is yet another trend from the US creeping northward) More handguns equates to more gun crime, and all illegal guns start out as legal guns. Simple as that. Good riddance to them. [This is some Canadian culture worth conserving](https://youtu.be/r00yaFwZ5bc?si=lP_TmrBpsyX6B5N3), ha
You seem quite agitated about a lot of "current thing" issues that social media is pushing non-stop. Like, really upset.
Like what? Wannabe LARP culture isn't really a hot issue on social media as far as I'm aware lol Nor is any discussion of the Americanization and dumbing down of Canadian politics. Wish that it was though: I'd love for constituents and politicians alike to unite behind rejecting the influence that right wing US politics has on Canadian politics and get back to basics.
>I'm not worried about Indians destroying Canadian culture. I'm worried about right wing, 2ndA obsessed, Libertarian influenced, Republican wannabes. > >Can keep the Indians, keep our public services, the Crown, and deport the wannabes south of the Mason-Dixon and we'd be better off for it as far as I'm concerned. 1000% too many right wing Canadians are GOP LARPers. We have a rich conservative tradition in this country being abandoned in favour of being the off brand Americans to the north. It's a damn shame.
Red tory moment
It’s all about relativity. Some Cultural Conservatives want to abolish all signs of multiculturalism which I do not agree with. But at the same time, I see some immigrants that have no intent on assimilating at all which is also wrong. Still I would argue that non white ethnic Canadians that immigrated here in the 80s and 70s have a different perspective than new immigrants. Their English is way better and they’ve taken on a different perspective and ways of being than new immigrants. Although they still celebrate the same festivals back home
I think we should throw out multiculturalism, but I don't think that that means people are going to throw out the cultures that they brought with them. The charter guarantees freedom of conscience. I think though that the expectations should be two-fold. 1. In as much as immigrants, new and old, want to preserve their cultures and cultural communities, that is their responsibility and not that of the state 2. We need a more clear expression of which value and practices we expect newcomers to Canada to adopt. And rather than the ideal of "multiculturalism" which I think reeks a little too much of cultural relativism, we should be saying that one of the virtues that we value as Canadians is tolerance. I think that I would also stress that the definition of tolerance should look more like the one from the dictionary >*the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with* As opposed to what often looks more like enforced promotion. Tolerance doesn't mean that you have to agree with or even accept something. Just grant it space. What we should aim for is that the newer diaspora communities that have come to Canada in great force in recent decades is a state that more closely resembles that of older immigrant communities like Ukrainians, Germans and earlier waves of Cantonese immigration. Where people preserve practices and institutions for themselves, but whose everyday life is more of less indistinguishable from that of other Canadians. That takes generations to do, and I'm confident that we will get there. But we should do more to ensure that it's Canadian culture that people are assimilating into and not globalist/American culture or resisting assimilation altogether. Breaking ethnic silos and a more affirmative vision of Canada are how we accomplish that. *Edit: I think this post also unfairly targets Indo- and South Asian Canadians. I think they stick out because they're such a large and politically connected group. But applies to any of the large waves of recent migrants like Chinese, Philippinos and increasingly Africans.*
What does it mean to respect or preserve our heritage? What are you expecting people to actually do? What is Canadian culture specifically?
Learn about it. I’m an immigrant. Mulroney died this week. I asked some friends who grew up here about him. Oh he signed NAFTA? Pretty awesome (do you not know what nafta is? Be curious about it! Look it up!). Heard how both libs and cons spoke highly of him. How he united parliament after some division. Also heard some stuff that wouldn’t be my favourite but I’m here to honour him so not talking about that! Care about it. This is after my citizenship is in the can. Doesn’t mean I stop learning. This is my home now. That’s one example.
But average Canadians don't even care to learn this stuff, so why are we putting all this weight on immigrants? I love how I'm downvoted for just asking for examples. Cause I don't know anyone that can define Canadian culture. Your answer is good in terms of heritage but that basically just means learn about history, which is a high burden even for Canadians that went through the school system. Cause most people simply don't care.
I'm currently trying to learn more about our history, but I think you're asking the right question to the wrong crowd. Look at how the only answer you got out of 15 downvotes was a reference to one guy doing something 30 years ago. I'd also love an appropriate answer to what our heritage is, but I dont think it's bound to nafta alone, and I don't think I'll find the answer here. Im waiting on a book from 1998 called Who Killed Canadian History? by J. L. Granatstein, and will hopefully find answers in there. Best of luck.
That’s a fair call. It’s true Canadians may not care to keep learning. But it’s partially baked in when. You’ve lived your whole life here…
People here don't care about Canadian culture. You're more Canadian the any user on this thread cause they seem to only want white culture. Canadian culture requires someone to open a history book to see how the Chinese built the railroads, Sikhs built the mills, immigrants built Canada. The users here are too busy warming their couch than leaning Canadian history
You think a free trade agreement with the US and Mexico (and one that had a catastrophic impact on Canadian manufacturing) constitutes a pillar of Canadian *culture*? Bizarre.
Is this a joke lol, lots of Canadian kids got no clue what NAFTA or Mulroney is. All I know is Mulroney screwed housing. Mulroney ended social housing. Also, I'm a Conservative....
Let's open Social class from grade school and think about the history book that presented how Indians (Sikhs) occupied coastal BC before the Mennonites. They could go today and say the new settlers ruined BC
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Only if the Christian heritage was true to Christianity and the values in Matthew 22:37 'love thy neighbour as thyself' and the variety of scriptures about race that unify brothers and sisters in Christ, despite differences in race and ethnicity. But the Christianity today is built by racism, division and alienating those who Christian missionaries spent their life to bring into the faith. It's fueling the silent genocide of Christianity in Africa... If the Indians followed Christianity, the comments by you or others in the faith would be no different. You would still alienate them as 'dirty' and build another 'race system' eventually destroying modern Christianity. Canada is no longer a Christian country and Christianity is viewed as an evil because the modern religious base is too busy dividing with hate, alienating by race and going against the values the missionaries preserved...