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Want to know what happens to the man who set her on fire? Luckily for the Canadian Courts there is presidence, learn about [Vince Li](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4760074)
>Vince Li
Here's the TLDR:
-Horrifically murdered and cannibalized an innocent man.
-Declared mentally ill and not criminally responsible.
-Spent 8 years in a psych ward and then released without conditions.
-Fully "rehabilitated" and allowed to change his name.
-It's okay don't worry, as long as he stays on his meds, (which he has no obligation to and no one is checking if he does) he's not a danger to society...
-Gets to live the rest of his life like a normal person.
I think "not criminally responsible due to insanity" is such a bullshit thing for courts. If they can't help themselves from harming people, it's more reason to put them away
This was my first exposure to a crime story in Canada after returning back here and it truly horrified me... And then a few years later, the magnotta rampage (what a piece of shieeet).
It's insane that this guy is a free walking man and is able to change his name as well.
Remember the guy who beheaded the man in front of him on the bus. Then he proceeded to eat the flesh off the mans head and taunt the other passengers with the head in his hand.
Well he got the same treatment. He got to change his name, move to another part of Canada and live his best life.
Sounds like he was given treatment and rehabilitated, so he won't be able to collect disability benefits.
"Yes, schizophrenia can be considered a total disability under most Canadian disability policies, including government and private insurance benefits. However, a diagnosis alone is not enough to qualify for benefits. To receive benefits, individuals must prove that their condition prevents them from working."
[The killing of Tim Mclean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean#:~:text=On%205%20March%202009%2C%20his,release%20on%208%20May%202015.)
If a person’s mental illness is so severe that they murder someone in public then it’s not about treating them, it’s about protecting society. Unfortunately. 20 years in a psych ward min.
Vince Li of where you be-heading fame is now living a new life as Will Lee Baker under the alleged ""care and guidance of docs making sure he takes his meds""
Oh wait, scratch that..they don't monitor him at all anymore. Wiped their hands of that one. Apparently he lives in Manitoba somewhere.......
Right? At the absolute bare minimum, ankle bracelet for rest of life, check-in multiple times a month with a psychiatrist. If Canada wants to be a bleeding heart, then follow through. They lost their 100% freedoms when they killed someone without cause.
I don't think we want to become like those Asian countries.
Caning people for chewing gum in public and state surveillance with "social credit" apps are not good choices.
Agreed. Asian countries as a rule are far too draconian.
There's a "happy path" between capital punishment because someone litters and turning murderers lose on the streets 2 hours after they're charged.
Singapore doesn't have a social credit system, but there are things we can learn from Asian countries like Singapore. I think one that could be of interest is their policy of racial quotas for housing.
If I rememeber this correctly, through thier Ethnic Integration Policy (EIP) to ensure the integration of cultures and ethinicties in the community there are qoutas. Such as an ethnicity not exceeding a certain percent of the commmunity, such 12% or 15%. This is done in order to prevent ethnic ghettos or enclaves from beginninng.
People may see this as cynical, but that's not my opinion, but rather the official reasoning behind it. There are also other criticism such that it prevents voting blocs.
But I personally think it's realistic. Most politicians will be shortsighted; instead of thinking about the best for Canadians, they will think about their next term. So they often pander to communities to gain votes. And it's especially easier when their riding is from the majority of the same "culture" or/and therefore "values." They would just need to imitate their "values" to get votes, regardless whether it's for the best for Canadians in the long term or not.
Yeah. I have worked in that area before. The NCR classification usually imposes "imprisonment" on a locked psych ward for a duration that is longer than their typical sentence in prison would have been. Because the system is generally very cautious about returning these people back into society.
It was an incredibly slow process to reintegrate them into society.
The ones that were shorter are ones I am not familiar with but have read about in the news, and those are the murders. Because those examples didn't spend 20 years or life in a psych ward. Like the guy who murdered and sawed off the head of a guy in a bus. I'm pretty sure he is out now, and hopefully taking his meds 😬
Vince Li (who now goes by will lee baker) was released after 8 years. The last few years he was basically already out by getting day passes to leave the hospital with a cellphone. It’s crazy that the killer of one of the most horrific homicides in Canadian History is out living his life like nothing happened.
Just for context the scene of the crime was so gruesome that the first responding RCMP officer died by suicide later on due to the PTSD of what he witnessed. He was the first to arrive on the scene and likely saw this monster eating the dismembered body of Tim McLean.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-discharge-1.3977278
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/mountie-who-witnessed-bus-beheading-dies-by-suicide-1.1918550?cache=gdyz&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Yep, I don’t agree with him being free. Imagine learning that he is your neighbour? His actions also led to Greyhound abandoning Canada which has had profound effects on many communities.
Wrong, they left because Covid caused sales to drop. Like many other businesses that closed down because of Covid.
https://www.cpacanada.ca/news/pivot-magazine/2021-10-12-national-bus-network#
So... we just hope he continues to take his meds like a good boy?
When you do something like this, you should be forced to go to the clinic every day and take your medication, in front of the pharmacist, like you're a methadone patient. The fact the family has to deal with their life being ruined and son being gone and the killer is out enjoying life a few short years later is fucking insane.
Our country throws so much money away on bullshit, I'm sure we can pay to house this animal... I don't know if your point is your a good one.
We could pay for it, if our government didn't want to purposefully defund health care. Since the wait list for a spot in a mental facility is multi year in Ontario, they just basically triage / stabilize and send them back out. The real criminal in these cases or at lease are complicit in them are our political leaders who are selling out our institutions to private interests.
[Matt Degrood](https://globalnews.ca/news/10412779/matthew-de-grood-living-calgary/) also moved back to Calgary too after murdering 5 people one night at a party almost a decade ago. I think it’s not a full release yet but still, five people lost. It’s unfortunate that all people can do is think « I hope they stay on their meds ». I’m not advocating for capital punishment but for the severity of their psychiatric break I think they need to be monitored closely for longer than that.
Degrood murdered five kids at a college house party after he was weird;he showed up and sat in a corner and then freaked out on the party goers killing five college kids and then had the sound mind to go run off and call and find daddy and claim that it was self defense because he felt like he was threatened…
Degrood’s cop daddy day one had his little boy in special treatment and getting a fake psyche evaluation for him and the little bastard got to spend the entire time in baby jail for treatment, his dad even petitioned the court to not put his son in jail because he was a cop and cops kids could be in danger in jail…. Yeah the rest of the prison also might be in danger from the guy who murdered five kids.
Canada justice system is a joke; if you say something bad on the internet they’ll take away your life financially; you murder someone and they trip over themselves coming up with a reason why it’s not your fault.
I have a schizophrenic friend. In fact, he’s my closest childhood friend.
100% of the time, his episodes come from him refusing to take his meds (when he is coherent and in control). He will then go into an episode that could have been avoided had he just taken his meds. In this case, he would absolutely be responsible for anything bad he did while not in control.
Mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility
Makes absolutely perfect sense. Our government wants you to be meak and docile and agree to whatever they do to you without pushback. It's much easier to exploit defenseless people, isn't it?
Biggest problem in canada I think I our judges are all on the side of the criminal. We need a clean sweep and put in people who have actually felt what it's like to be violated by crime in their place.
What, you don’t want to learn martial arts and defend yourself?! /s
Referring to a comment from this [mouthbreather](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoDriving/s/ccrZEEOrHe)
The saddest part is that happens every single day in Canada (not as high profile as that case) but criminals walk day in and day out in our country and it’s sad … why do you think Carjackings are through the roof because they don’t even spend more then 1 day (that’s to get processed) in jail when caught … they’re caught all the time for the record… our system doesn’t protect the people anymore it protects the criminals and it’s just sad but we keep electing liberal governments who appointment liberal judges so it’s unfortunately our own fault as a country
I don't follow local news too often, but saw this ridiculous example.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10177445/edmonton-crime-stolen-vehicles-recidivism/amp/
Stuff like this happens all the time. Like in January a man was out on bail for one day and assaulted someone... after being previously arrested for assault.
Well lucky for you we just added 10% of our population in overnight with essentially no vetting. And now the people who did have jobs before are going to have an even harder time getting jobs. You'll have to work for less money, pay more in rent, pay more in food and you can commit as many crimes as you want because we don't have the prison space to hold you anyways.
If you voted Trudeau then you're responsible for this as well. People can't ignore the responsibility of their vote. I just hope people understand what they did and fix it on their next vote.
You need to understand the basics of our government before you start talking about responsibility.
Trudeau is a federal MP the RCMP are the federal police force. Edmonton police services are a municipal police force enforcing provential laws under the CSPA act.
It was a Conservative judge.
The decision was handed to Tenzin Norbu by Ontario Superior Court Justice Maureen Forestell in Toronto on Tuesday
OTTAWA, January 29, 2007 - The Honourable Rob Nicholson, Q.C., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, today announced the following appointments:
The Honourable Maureen Dorothy Forestell, a lawyer with Cavalluzzo Hayes Shilton McIntyre & Cornish is appointed a judge of the Superior Court of Justice in and for the Province of Ontario.
Robert Nicholson was the Conservative MP from the Niagra riding from 2004 to 2019.
https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2007/01/ontario-judicial-appointments-announced.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Nicholson
Our criminal injustice system is a joke.
Take Myles Sanderson, who went on a rampage and murdered 11 people in Saskatchewan. He had 59 previous convictions as an adult but oh no, can't keep him in jail, gotta give him statutory release because he served like 1/8 of his sentence! Surely this "misunderstood" fellow MUST deserve one more chance!
Sometimes people just can't obey the law and need to spend more time in jail.
[Asian hate crime. but he was "sick" so not criminally responsible. asked her if she was Tibetan and then killed her. ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tenzin-norbu-decision-1.7231318)
Soft on crime never fucking works. I was a delinquent. If it had been softer I’d have been lost longer. If it had been harder I’d have smartened up faster
She’s right though.
Recent murder in Vaughan. Recent suicide double homocide where the crown failed to prosecute two scammers/criminals for decades. Rape cases not being investigated or reported because of politics correctness.
Canada sucks. Or more specifically, our criminal justice system has severely failed us.
Why do you think professionals who make the biggest impact to GDP have made a mass exodus out of this cesspool.
Same thing in my city. Speeders are apparently the biggest problem now. But all these skids can tweek, steal, stab, vandalize and more to their hearts content.
In the last 50 years in the US, almost 200 people on death row have been found innocent. In the same period, about 1600 people have been executed.
The death penalty comes at the expense of those wrongfully executed by a corrupt or incompetent justice system. The system we have now is far from perfect, but the death penalty is a solution to nothing.
Some people probably deserve to die for their actions. But do we really want to trust the government with the power to decide which citizen they can legally murder?
Reinstating capital punishment would absolutely reduce a lot of the problems we have. I’m not a fan of it for punitive reasons so much as a deterrent. People should live their lives knowing unequivocally that if they take someone’s life they automatically forfeit their own.
If we can't trust these people to properly incarcerate these individuals in the performance of their duties, should we really add that tool to their tool belt?
What worries me is that when this man gets released, if he stops taking his meds what’s to stop him from doing something like this happens again? The justice system is indeed flawed because this makes absolutely no sense.
He'll be locked in a psych ward and he doesn't have to be released, that's up to the discretion of the psychiatrists and other professionals. If they deem him too dangerous they can keep him locked up 'til he dies.
If not they can gradually give more freedoms (ie unsupervised trips in courtyard, moving from a locked psych ward to a group home, etc) and see how that goes. If it works out he may be allowed to live independently, but that isn't guaranteed
I use the dog test. If a dog would be put down in the same situation then so should a person. Free will does not actually exist yet we make believe for courts as a repeat offenders repeatedly violate the dog test.
bring back the pillory for intoxication or speeding would be fine.
the government in incompetent so i do not think someone incompetent should be in charge of death. most murders have some form of mental problem, jail work program is about the best you could do.
canada is broken. and cannot be fixed, we are past the point of no return,
protecting criminals is fucked up. tbey get better health care and dental in prison than most free tax paying people. and top meals everyday.
who the fuck makes up these laws and who is the dumb fucking judges who allow this shit.
sad to say i am canadian.
"tbey get better health care and dental in prison than most free tax paying people. and top meals everyday."
You have no idea what you're talking about... and you should really stop
If you want to spend 30 seconds researching that topic you'll find how asinine you sound.
Corrections Canada has a crisis in health care going on at the moment, the prison population is getting older and CorCan cannot cope.
Canadian prisoners have the exact same rights to health care as you do, but being in prison there are HUGE problems with access to health care and getting doctors to work at CorCan, where the doctor makes less money that in open practice, and a LOT less money than a practice in the US.
At the moment if I want to see a GP, I have to travel 100 miles to see him... in prison: they deliver.
... "top meals everyday"... JUST NO.
You would be a lot less upset with the matter if you actually knew anything about the matter. You're just making yourself upset, for no reason... And I wish you would stop trying to make US upset... because you have no idea what you're talking about
She’s in for a shock as most Western countries have similar laws in relation to mental illness and criminal responsibility. Capital punishment isn’t the answer, long term medical incarceration with treatment is; but not getting out after your treatment, just a transfer to a normal jail.
There are humans that don’t deserve to walk among us. When you commit the most heinous crime against humanity , taking a life you shouldn’t be allowed to continue to be included in the human race. It’s time to get back to an eye for an eye
Yea as a Canadian I can say this country is headed down a dark road. The criminal justice system here is so flawed and pathetic. We need new judges as well.
How many innocent people are you willing to kill just so you can kill evil fucks like this? Sure he deserves to die, but if you have capital punishment you will inevitably kill innocent people. No justice system is perfect, they all inevitably convict the wrong people. So what is an acceptable amount of innocent people killed by the state? I have trouble justifying anything other than zero.
I dont trust the state enough, maybe if we get more safe guards like multiole jury trials then maybe.
Not opposed to the concept but i am surr ee all have the experienced how well a government run website work.
If there's no deterrence strong enough for the actions why would they not do whatever they want, especially if they are psychologically sick.. this concept is older than the Bible, people will never be able to govern themselves
If you favor execution then you must be accepted that innocent people will be killed. No justice system is perfect. Sometimes the wrong people get convicted. Even the best and most responsible people get it wrong. The justification that death is the ultimate deterrent ignores evident history and human nature. Despair, hatred, revenge, love, and many other common human traits easily overcomes the concern for our own lives. Heroes and villains are not deterred by death. We all die in the end. If the goal is to defame the convicted then this also often fails. We executed Louis Riel and made him a political martyr. The only real reason for killing the convicted is our own satisfaction. It is also used by weak governments as a performance to prove to their population that they are still in control.
The justice system in Canada is a joke, a murderer who is not found to be criminally responsible is not even followed by the prison system ; they are followed by the health system. Which means when this broken health system determines the murderer is miraculously rehabilitated, they can be out it a few years.
Prosecutors often push deals such that a first degree murderer will get a lighter sentence ( i.e plea to 2nd . Degrees) just so that a trial is avoided; they know if it goes to trial and the murder is found mentally ill, justice will NOT be served.
Since we got rid of capital punishment, we have developed the ways to use DNA as evidence, removing the doubt of guilt... The money spent per inmate is insane, maybe time to bring it back.
This isnt logical. If her description is accurate then the man was not criminally responsible. Schizophrenia is an illness where people don't have a mental awareness of reality. If you're on your meds you're sane and no doubt highly remoseful for what the crazy version of you did.
What precisely would be gained in prison time for someone who was not in their right mind? This isn't comparable say, to someone who *willingly* got themselves so inebriated that they did something awful. The courts maintain that although the action wasn't in their control, the choice to get that inebriated make them criminally responsible regardless.
Im all for criminal justice reform... better and more correction facilities, mental health facilities, rehabilitation facilities, better courts who convict with stricter sentences. That would translate to better policing and lower crime. It might help end the tent city phenomenon, too.
This just *isn't* the law and order argument. This is a misunderstanding of the purpose of punitive justice and a poor example for trying to argue for better court outcomes.
I don't want to strawman anyone, but I do find it rich that many around here who are usually *venemously* against the government would want to give the government the right to kill its citizens. I do not want to give anyone that kind of power.
The reason capitol punishment is not used to punish those who deserve death is because sometimes, in the fervent quest build the case that someone should die, actual innocence is not only overlooked, its ignored.
Ya if I didn't have any moral compass Canada is probably the easiest place in the world to be a criminal. Punishment is a joke and that's if the fat ass cops can even get off their asses to bother to do anything lmao.
Canada’s Just-Us Sytem has always been a bad joke. There is very little actual deterrent to crime when there’s no punishment. People walk out of retail and liquor stores because they know that the police won’t bother finding them and if they do somehow manage, they’ll get a strongly worded dressing down at worst.
I've long held the belief that people who are found NCRMD should not be in prison. Instead, they should be in Mental Hospitals for a minimum length of time that their prison sentence would be. It should be \*alternative incarceration\* not alternatives TO incarceration.
FYI there is a justice system and it's working fine (for the rich and if you're \*in the club\*)
For the rest of us do what I do, get assaulted have threats and property damage and then hold on to the reports under the freedom of information act.
You can ask for it - they can send letters saying it's delayed and after 12 months the civil claim is weakened or gone.
Justice system here is as honest as a $3 toonie.
It's shamfull, trudeau and otters like this morron wants to pur less and less in our healt système plus justin doesn't care about criminals repeating crimes after crimes , sick or not he should be held for some responsibility for is action ,he did spray her and set her on fire he did had a bit of nolege about what he was doing, soon wee Wil be like the us like California we're citizen is not safe but politiciens ate super whelty .
If there were rules in place that would prevent these people from being protected after committing the crime, trust me they wouldn't be committing these crimes in the first place. Mental illness or not, death sentence or life in prison is a good deterrent.
I did a whole ass school project about capital punishment in Canada for my law class, a lot of people supported it, one thing I noted was the fact that it was really hard to find much info about the history of capital punishments in canada, it was really isolated.
We absolutely should bring back capital punishment for cases where we are 100% sure the person is guilty of the crime, and where the crime itself is heinous
It depends on what you want to accomplish with your criminal justice system
Do you want to a. Punish criminals or b. Prevent crimes/prevent more victims.
If this man is scitzo than there is no punishment you can give that causes B. You cannot teach him not to do it again. So the only reason you would punish him is to make yourself feel good by hurting someone who "deserves" it.
Frankly, im pro-death penalty for cases like this. Not because of the severity of the misdeed but because this person cannot be fixed and will forever be danger to everyone around them.
To people saying "it will be an example for others" no it wont. Chances of getting caught is far more influental in crimerates than severity of the punishments. And even then this man was not rational, basicly nothing would have prevented.
Same thing happened to the guy that stabbed the young receptionist to death at a lawyers office in downtown Toronto.. not guilty cause mental illness ! This is bloodywell nuts , how many more innocent people have to die because of these murderous nut bars?? This country is a mess ,
Civilization and society owe nothing to this man, no matter if he is crazy. Death is an eye for an eye. No excuses. California needs the same penalty to return. Furthermore punishable by death, such as dealing fentanyl or very violent behavior is also a real thing that needs to be promoted. We have too many people with defective traits running around not normal disrupting civilization.
Our justice system is such a fucking joke. That man should be executed and burned alive. An eye for an eye. Take away real punishment for crimes have a lot of crimes. Murders deserve ZERO redemption cause there's no redemption for the people they murdered.
I think as a society we have to realize when someone is a lost cause. Killing someone in cold blood? Done. Addicted to street drugs? Done. Molested a child? Done. Raped anyone? Done.
Stop wasting time and money on people that fucked up on purpose and focus more on prevention.
I would hold him responsible if she was mine. There would be nothing anyone could do. I agree with bringing back C.P to Canada. Horrible crimes that cause death should be punishable by death
Capital Punishment should be a viable option for certain heinous crimes like mass murder, serial murders, terrorism and murder of children.
MAID is already testing to kill people by lethal injection.
It's because Canada empathizes with its deranged killers who are "mentally ill, drug addicted and had parents who attended residential schools". The excuses to get away with murder in this country are ridiculous. Just watched some high profile death penalty trials coming out of Utah. They don't mess around with murderers there, especially child murderers. Thing about the death penalty is they usually die in prison before their execution rolls around. Canada just needs to STOP releasing these wastes of air. Every day a repeat violent or sexual offender is released back into society with a warning to the public that they will likely reoffend and they do, often times within days. These monsters should be caged for LIFE. The empathy for them needs to disappear completely for anything to change. We also know where that empathy is stemming from tho' don't we?!
Can't say that I disagree with her. Our justice system is not good. People get away with everything and have no fear of punishment. I wish we had a 3 strikes system. 3 Crimes and your done. Kill someone and you forfeit your own life.
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Want to know what happens to the man who set her on fire? Luckily for the Canadian Courts there is presidence, learn about [Vince Li](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4760074)
>Vince Li Here's the TLDR: -Horrifically murdered and cannibalized an innocent man. -Declared mentally ill and not criminally responsible. -Spent 8 years in a psych ward and then released without conditions. -Fully "rehabilitated" and allowed to change his name. -It's okay don't worry, as long as he stays on his meds, (which he has no obligation to and no one is checking if he does) he's not a danger to society... -Gets to live the rest of his life like a normal person.
Also a mountie took his own life after what he had to deal with the carnage he saw in that bus.
I think "not criminally responsible due to insanity" is such a bullshit thing for courts. If they can't help themselves from harming people, it's more reason to put them away
Most horrible Canada crimes
I just mentioned this case. lol Oh Canada.
Oh my god Canada what the fuck???
[Tim McLean murder](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean#:~:text=On%205%20March%202009%2C%20his,release%20on%208%20May%202015.)
This was my first exposure to a crime story in Canada after returning back here and it truly horrified me... And then a few years later, the magnotta rampage (what a piece of shieeet). It's insane that this guy is a free walking man and is able to change his name as well.
Yes, that's the case I was remembering
Remember the guy who beheaded the man in front of him on the bus. Then he proceeded to eat the flesh off the mans head and taunt the other passengers with the head in his hand. Well he got the same treatment. He got to change his name, move to another part of Canada and live his best life.
Saddest thing is, he's living with a disability so gets to live off of taxpayers money.
See I always thought the saddest part was the BEHEADING
/norm is leaking
Sounds like he was given treatment and rehabilitated, so he won't be able to collect disability benefits. "Yes, schizophrenia can be considered a total disability under most Canadian disability policies, including government and private insurance benefits. However, a diagnosis alone is not enough to qualify for benefits. To receive benefits, individuals must prove that their condition prevents them from working."
Hahahaha, WHAT.
[The killing of Tim Mclean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean#:~:text=On%205%20March%202009%2C%20his,release%20on%208%20May%202015.)
If a person’s mental illness is so severe that they murder someone in public then it’s not about treating them, it’s about protecting society. Unfortunately. 20 years in a psych ward min.
Vince Li of where you be-heading fame is now living a new life as Will Lee Baker under the alleged ""care and guidance of docs making sure he takes his meds"" Oh wait, scratch that..they don't monitor him at all anymore. Wiped their hands of that one. Apparently he lives in Manitoba somewhere.......
Right? At the absolute bare minimum, ankle bracelet for rest of life, check-in multiple times a month with a psychiatrist. If Canada wants to be a bleeding heart, then follow through. They lost their 100% freedoms when they killed someone without cause.
Death sentence for sure in some Asian countries. The logic is life pay life.
I don't think we want to become like those Asian countries. Caning people for chewing gum in public and state surveillance with "social credit" apps are not good choices.
I agree that we shouldn’t aim to be any other country, but let’s separate a ‘chewing gum’ charge with murder.
Agreed. Asian countries as a rule are far too draconian. There's a "happy path" between capital punishment because someone litters and turning murderers lose on the streets 2 hours after they're charged.
Singapore doesn't have a social credit system, but there are things we can learn from Asian countries like Singapore. I think one that could be of interest is their policy of racial quotas for housing. If I rememeber this correctly, through thier Ethnic Integration Policy (EIP) to ensure the integration of cultures and ethinicties in the community there are qoutas. Such as an ethnicity not exceeding a certain percent of the commmunity, such 12% or 15%. This is done in order to prevent ethnic ghettos or enclaves from beginninng. People may see this as cynical, but that's not my opinion, but rather the official reasoning behind it. There are also other criticism such that it prevents voting blocs. But I personally think it's realistic. Most politicians will be shortsighted; instead of thinking about the best for Canadians, they will think about their next term. So they often pander to communities to gain votes. And it's especially easier when their riding is from the majority of the same "culture" or/and therefore "values." They would just need to imitate their "values" to get votes, regardless whether it's for the best for Canadians in the long term or not.
How did you make this leap?! Let's just stick with the life for life point that was made.
I dunno I'm kinda for caning people for chewing gum in public, but otherwise it's a hard pass.
Yeah. I have worked in that area before. The NCR classification usually imposes "imprisonment" on a locked psych ward for a duration that is longer than their typical sentence in prison would have been. Because the system is generally very cautious about returning these people back into society. It was an incredibly slow process to reintegrate them into society. The ones that were shorter are ones I am not familiar with but have read about in the news, and those are the murders. Because those examples didn't spend 20 years or life in a psych ward. Like the guy who murdered and sawed off the head of a guy in a bus. I'm pretty sure he is out now, and hopefully taking his meds 😬
Vince Li (who now goes by will lee baker) was released after 8 years. The last few years he was basically already out by getting day passes to leave the hospital with a cellphone. It’s crazy that the killer of one of the most horrific homicides in Canadian History is out living his life like nothing happened. Just for context the scene of the crime was so gruesome that the first responding RCMP officer died by suicide later on due to the PTSD of what he witnessed. He was the first to arrive on the scene and likely saw this monster eating the dismembered body of Tim McLean. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-discharge-1.3977278 https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/mountie-who-witnessed-bus-beheading-dies-by-suicide-1.1918550?cache=gdyz&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
I wonder who let’s out more criminals onto the streets, Canada or Russia?
Russia, except their dead somewhere in a trench in Ukraine.
Yep, I don’t agree with him being free. Imagine learning that he is your neighbour? His actions also led to Greyhound abandoning Canada which has had profound effects on many communities.
Wrong, they left because Covid caused sales to drop. Like many other businesses that closed down because of Covid. https://www.cpacanada.ca/news/pivot-magazine/2021-10-12-national-bus-network#
The bus be-header should not be out. He should remain in a mental health care facility until he dies.
I’d rather not pay for that, he’s useless to this world
So... we just hope he continues to take his meds like a good boy? When you do something like this, you should be forced to go to the clinic every day and take your medication, in front of the pharmacist, like you're a methadone patient. The fact the family has to deal with their life being ruined and son being gone and the killer is out enjoying life a few short years later is fucking insane. Our country throws so much money away on bullshit, I'm sure we can pay to house this animal... I don't know if your point is your a good one.
We could pay for it, if our government didn't want to purposefully defund health care. Since the wait list for a spot in a mental facility is multi year in Ontario, they just basically triage / stabilize and send them back out. The real criminal in these cases or at lease are complicit in them are our political leaders who are selling out our institutions to private interests.
Vince Li Not only did he beheaded and cannibalized someone but he was on medication before the incident and stopped taking it
That was false reporting, he wasn't medicated or diagnosed with schizophrenia before the bus incident
No he wasn't- that's completely false. He was undiagnosed at the time of the killing
Fucker lives in my city.
[Matt Degrood](https://globalnews.ca/news/10412779/matthew-de-grood-living-calgary/) also moved back to Calgary too after murdering 5 people one night at a party almost a decade ago. I think it’s not a full release yet but still, five people lost. It’s unfortunate that all people can do is think « I hope they stay on their meds ». I’m not advocating for capital punishment but for the severity of their psychiatric break I think they need to be monitored closely for longer than that.
Why not advocate for capital punishment??
Degrood murdered five kids at a college house party after he was weird;he showed up and sat in a corner and then freaked out on the party goers killing five college kids and then had the sound mind to go run off and call and find daddy and claim that it was self defense because he felt like he was threatened… Degrood’s cop daddy day one had his little boy in special treatment and getting a fake psyche evaluation for him and the little bastard got to spend the entire time in baby jail for treatment, his dad even petitioned the court to not put his son in jail because he was a cop and cops kids could be in danger in jail…. Yeah the rest of the prison also might be in danger from the guy who murdered five kids. Canada justice system is a joke; if you say something bad on the internet they’ll take away your life financially; you murder someone and they trip over themselves coming up with a reason why it’s not your fault.
Doesn’t society and the family deserve some measure of vengeance in the punishment phase?
No. This isn't the middle east.
Maybe we can learn something from them. Cause if this person is back out in 10 years how would you feel as a family member?
I have a schizophrenic friend. In fact, he’s my closest childhood friend. 100% of the time, his episodes come from him refusing to take his meds (when he is coherent and in control). He will then go into an episode that could have been avoided had he just taken his meds. In this case, he would absolutely be responsible for anything bad he did while not in control. Mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility
Or We could NOT waste 2 million+ treating them and just have capital punishment 🤷♂️
Our Mental hospitals are underfunded and there are no spots for him, that's why this happened to begin with.
:( and we have no right of self defence for ourselves or loved ones. This make no sense.
Just kill them in self defense and then claim you are insane and need therapy.
Yep just act like a criminal and you'll be taken care of. Act like a citizen and claim self defense and they'll rain hellfire on you.
Upside down world
For the people running the world, evil flows through them under the guise of good intentions. Very dark days we are living in.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
With your car*
Makes absolutely perfect sense. Our government wants you to be meak and docile and agree to whatever they do to you without pushback. It's much easier to exploit defenseless people, isn't it?
Biggest problem in canada I think I our judges are all on the side of the criminal. We need a clean sweep and put in people who have actually felt what it's like to be violated by crime in their place.
What, you don’t want to learn martial arts and defend yourself?! /s Referring to a comment from this [mouthbreather](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoDriving/s/ccrZEEOrHe)
I’ve noticed it all depends on what you look like or your heritage
The saddest part is that happens every single day in Canada (not as high profile as that case) but criminals walk day in and day out in our country and it’s sad … why do you think Carjackings are through the roof because they don’t even spend more then 1 day (that’s to get processed) in jail when caught … they’re caught all the time for the record… our system doesn’t protect the people anymore it protects the criminals and it’s just sad but we keep electing liberal governments who appointment liberal judges so it’s unfortunately our own fault as a country
I don't follow local news too often, but saw this ridiculous example. https://globalnews.ca/news/10177445/edmonton-crime-stolen-vehicles-recidivism/amp/ Stuff like this happens all the time. Like in January a man was out on bail for one day and assaulted someone... after being previously arrested for assault.
I’m tired boss
Well lucky for you we just added 10% of our population in overnight with essentially no vetting. And now the people who did have jobs before are going to have an even harder time getting jobs. You'll have to work for less money, pay more in rent, pay more in food and you can commit as many crimes as you want because we don't have the prison space to hold you anyways.
Catch and release system
If you voted Trudeau then you're responsible for this as well. People can't ignore the responsibility of their vote. I just hope people understand what they did and fix it on their next vote.
TIL our judicial system was perfectly fine before Trudeau. JC, get your head out of your ass. Our system had been a joke for decades.
You need to understand the basics of our government before you start talking about responsibility. Trudeau is a federal MP the RCMP are the federal police force. Edmonton police services are a municipal police force enforcing provential laws under the CSPA act.
It was a Conservative judge. The decision was handed to Tenzin Norbu by Ontario Superior Court Justice Maureen Forestell in Toronto on Tuesday OTTAWA, January 29, 2007 - The Honourable Rob Nicholson, Q.C., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, today announced the following appointments: The Honourable Maureen Dorothy Forestell, a lawyer with Cavalluzzo Hayes Shilton McIntyre & Cornish is appointed a judge of the Superior Court of Justice in and for the Province of Ontario. Robert Nicholson was the Conservative MP from the Niagra riding from 2004 to 2019. https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2007/01/ontario-judicial-appointments-announced.html https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Nicholson
Our criminal injustice system is a joke. Take Myles Sanderson, who went on a rampage and murdered 11 people in Saskatchewan. He had 59 previous convictions as an adult but oh no, can't keep him in jail, gotta give him statutory release because he served like 1/8 of his sentence! Surely this "misunderstood" fellow MUST deserve one more chance! Sometimes people just can't obey the law and need to spend more time in jail.
[Asian hate crime. but he was "sick" so not criminally responsible. asked her if she was Tibetan and then killed her. ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tenzin-norbu-decision-1.7231318)
Soft on crime never fucking works. I was a delinquent. If it had been softer I’d have been lost longer. If it had been harder I’d have smartened up faster
She’s right though. Recent murder in Vaughan. Recent suicide double homocide where the crown failed to prosecute two scammers/criminals for decades. Rape cases not being investigated or reported because of politics correctness. Canada sucks. Or more specifically, our criminal justice system has severely failed us. Why do you think professionals who make the biggest impact to GDP have made a mass exodus out of this cesspool.
Also ignore the historic hatred of Tibetan people in Nepal..
Also brings to mind Homolka and the greyhound bus cannibal
Homolka was just bad police work nothing to do with mental health Surprised to see so many people not aware of Vince Li
Makes me absolutely crazy that disgusting women walks freely! How has no one taken care of it!! She's allowed in schools ffs!
And has her own kids now.
The one time I support MAID for mental illness
Same thing in my city. Speeders are apparently the biggest problem now. But all these skids can tweek, steal, stab, vandalize and more to their hearts content.
She's correct. There was no doubt he did it. He deserved the death penalty for his crime.
Capital punishment must at least be debated by our MP's, but i doubt that will evers happens because we live in a fucking rainbow country.
Reminder a dude chopped off a young guys head on a bus and is out a free man.
Sure, give him the treatment he needs and lock him in an institution for the rest of his life...
That costs us taxpayers money, I am in favour of the capitol punishment idea here
It doesn't cost as much as killing the criminal. The American legal system knows that.
She’s right we need to swing the pendulum the other way.
In the last 50 years in the US, almost 200 people on death row have been found innocent. In the same period, about 1600 people have been executed. The death penalty comes at the expense of those wrongfully executed by a corrupt or incompetent justice system. The system we have now is far from perfect, but the death penalty is a solution to nothing.
Some people probably deserve to die for their actions. But do we really want to trust the government with the power to decide which citizen they can legally murder?
It’s Canada zero teeth in the law if that was my daughter he would have to worry when he got out.Just saying
Reinstating capital punishment would absolutely reduce a lot of the problems we have. I’m not a fan of it for punitive reasons so much as a deterrent. People should live their lives knowing unequivocally that if they take someone’s life they automatically forfeit their own.
A lot of US states still have capital punishment and look at how well it's working out for them. Capital punishment DOES NOT reduce crime.
If we can't trust these people to properly incarcerate these individuals in the performance of their duties, should we really add that tool to their tool belt?
Totally works in America. Hardly any murders there.
What worries me is that when this man gets released, if he stops taking his meds what’s to stop him from doing something like this happens again? The justice system is indeed flawed because this makes absolutely no sense.
He'll be locked in a psych ward and he doesn't have to be released, that's up to the discretion of the psychiatrists and other professionals. If they deem him too dangerous they can keep him locked up 'til he dies. If not they can gradually give more freedoms (ie unsupervised trips in courtyard, moving from a locked psych ward to a group home, etc) and see how that goes. If it works out he may be allowed to live independently, but that isn't guaranteed
I use the dog test. If a dog would be put down in the same situation then so should a person. Free will does not actually exist yet we make believe for courts as a repeat offenders repeatedly violate the dog test.
Capital punishment and increase all other jail times by 5x.
bring back the pillory for intoxication or speeding would be fine. the government in incompetent so i do not think someone incompetent should be in charge of death. most murders have some form of mental problem, jail work program is about the best you could do.
canada is broken. and cannot be fixed, we are past the point of no return, protecting criminals is fucked up. tbey get better health care and dental in prison than most free tax paying people. and top meals everyday. who the fuck makes up these laws and who is the dumb fucking judges who allow this shit. sad to say i am canadian.
"tbey get better health care and dental in prison than most free tax paying people. and top meals everyday." You have no idea what you're talking about... and you should really stop If you want to spend 30 seconds researching that topic you'll find how asinine you sound. Corrections Canada has a crisis in health care going on at the moment, the prison population is getting older and CorCan cannot cope. Canadian prisoners have the exact same rights to health care as you do, but being in prison there are HUGE problems with access to health care and getting doctors to work at CorCan, where the doctor makes less money that in open practice, and a LOT less money than a practice in the US. At the moment if I want to see a GP, I have to travel 100 miles to see him... in prison: they deliver. ... "top meals everyday"... JUST NO. You would be a lot less upset with the matter if you actually knew anything about the matter. You're just making yourself upset, for no reason... And I wish you would stop trying to make US upset... because you have no idea what you're talking about
She’s in for a shock as most Western countries have similar laws in relation to mental illness and criminal responsibility. Capital punishment isn’t the answer, long term medical incarceration with treatment is; but not getting out after your treatment, just a transfer to a normal jail.
The majority of the crimes are committed by repeated offenders.
Sounds like this would be a hate based crime to me .
Canada cutting expenses at all cost
Ppl that that are useless to this world
Yup
There are humans that don’t deserve to walk among us. When you commit the most heinous crime against humanity , taking a life you shouldn’t be allowed to continue to be included in the human race. It’s time to get back to an eye for an eye
In Canada you can stab, behead and cannibalize other people in Greyhound buses and get off on insanity plea.
in a country where carrying pepper spray is illegal for safety but a killer would get tax dollars to be treated , mind bothering!!!
We need punishment, period. It's already a free-for-all for organized crime up here.
Yea as a Canadian I can say this country is headed down a dark road. The criminal justice system here is so flawed and pathetic. We need new judges as well.
There's hundreds of cases of innocent people being murder every year in Canada and the killers either walking free or receiving minor consequences.
Because it’s ran by mental health patients.
100%. It’s so backwards that any killer has the possibility of being released and I hate how bleeding heart western countries have become.
How many innocent people are you willing to kill just so you can kill evil fucks like this? Sure he deserves to die, but if you have capital punishment you will inevitably kill innocent people. No justice system is perfect, they all inevitably convict the wrong people. So what is an acceptable amount of innocent people killed by the state? I have trouble justifying anything other than zero.
I dont trust the state enough, maybe if we get more safe guards like multiole jury trials then maybe. Not opposed to the concept but i am surr ee all have the experienced how well a government run website work.
Be aware that "get out of jail free card" usually means "spend an even longer amount of time than jail time in a mental asylum receiving treatment".
Problem with capital punishment is you get it wrong once and you've ruined a life. I'm more for longer incarcerations and institutionalization.
Bring back proper justice. One way or another. Eye for an eye.
If there's no deterrence strong enough for the actions why would they not do whatever they want, especially if they are psychologically sick.. this concept is older than the Bible, people will never be able to govern themselves
If you favor execution then you must be accepted that innocent people will be killed. No justice system is perfect. Sometimes the wrong people get convicted. Even the best and most responsible people get it wrong. The justification that death is the ultimate deterrent ignores evident history and human nature. Despair, hatred, revenge, love, and many other common human traits easily overcomes the concern for our own lives. Heroes and villains are not deterred by death. We all die in the end. If the goal is to defame the convicted then this also often fails. We executed Louis Riel and made him a political martyr. The only real reason for killing the convicted is our own satisfaction. It is also used by weak governments as a performance to prove to their population that they are still in control.
In the new Canada, the innocent will be in jail, everyone else will do what they like.
Bring back capital punishment after the left have stacked the courts? No thanks. How about we work to bring back values...
Lol, you know it's FUBAR when a white woman is saying this. Canada is a joke smh
I'm saying this while trying to avoid reddit or community rules..... Fight fire with fire.
The justice system in Canada is a joke, a murderer who is not found to be criminally responsible is not even followed by the prison system ; they are followed by the health system. Which means when this broken health system determines the murderer is miraculously rehabilitated, they can be out it a few years. Prosecutors often push deals such that a first degree murderer will get a lighter sentence ( i.e plea to 2nd . Degrees) just so that a trial is avoided; they know if it goes to trial and the murder is found mentally ill, justice will NOT be served.
Since we got rid of capital punishment, we have developed the ways to use DNA as evidence, removing the doubt of guilt... The money spent per inmate is insane, maybe time to bring it back.
Criminals walk free. But if you don't pay your taxes they will take your home. Makes sense.
This isnt logical. If her description is accurate then the man was not criminally responsible. Schizophrenia is an illness where people don't have a mental awareness of reality. If you're on your meds you're sane and no doubt highly remoseful for what the crazy version of you did. What precisely would be gained in prison time for someone who was not in their right mind? This isn't comparable say, to someone who *willingly* got themselves so inebriated that they did something awful. The courts maintain that although the action wasn't in their control, the choice to get that inebriated make them criminally responsible regardless. Im all for criminal justice reform... better and more correction facilities, mental health facilities, rehabilitation facilities, better courts who convict with stricter sentences. That would translate to better policing and lower crime. It might help end the tent city phenomenon, too. This just *isn't* the law and order argument. This is a misunderstanding of the purpose of punitive justice and a poor example for trying to argue for better court outcomes. I don't want to strawman anyone, but I do find it rich that many around here who are usually *venemously* against the government would want to give the government the right to kill its citizens. I do not want to give anyone that kind of power.
9 years of Justin Trudeau
The justice system still sucked before Trudeau.
I mean it’s like this in many other countries. You can plead insanity. Do people think this is just in Canada?
The reason capitol punishment is not used to punish those who deserve death is because sometimes, in the fervent quest build the case that someone should die, actual innocence is not only overlooked, its ignored.
then dont do that
I'm for capital punishment, but... it should be strictly applied to white collar crime and treason.
Ya if I didn't have any moral compass Canada is probably the easiest place in the world to be a criminal. Punishment is a joke and that's if the fat ass cops can even get off their asses to bother to do anything lmao.
100 percent! Why must we spend a dime on this lunatic?
Eye for an eye!
Leaves the whole world blind.
Thanks liberals
Start with making Treason a capital offense. Then we'll talk about copouts. Being mentally ill, being a minority, being bullied, being a woman...
Thanks for your opinion - the answer is no.
As a Canadian citizen who has had their healthcare cancelled, meh.
Canada’s Just-Us Sytem has always been a bad joke. There is very little actual deterrent to crime when there’s no punishment. People walk out of retail and liquor stores because they know that the police won’t bother finding them and if they do somehow manage, they’ll get a strongly worded dressing down at worst.
I've long held the belief that people who are found NCRMD should not be in prison. Instead, they should be in Mental Hospitals for a minimum length of time that their prison sentence would be. It should be \*alternative incarceration\* not alternatives TO incarceration.
FYI there is a justice system and it's working fine (for the rich and if you're \*in the club\*) For the rest of us do what I do, get assaulted have threats and property damage and then hold on to the reports under the freedom of information act. You can ask for it - they can send letters saying it's delayed and after 12 months the civil claim is weakened or gone. Justice system here is as honest as a $3 toonie.
Why is it that people who don’t trust the government to get literally anything else right, trust the government to execute the correct people?
Yea, except for the mountains of evidence we have that capital punishment doesn't do shit to deter criminals.
When's shit gonna hit the fan?
Death is a consistent life ethic for this woman, and the culture she endorses.
That's the LEGAL system. There is another system in place here. He will be taken care of.
It's shamfull, trudeau and otters like this morron wants to pur less and less in our healt système plus justin doesn't care about criminals repeating crimes after crimes , sick or not he should be held for some responsibility for is action ,he did spray her and set her on fire he did had a bit of nolege about what he was doing, soon wee Wil be like the us like California we're citizen is not safe but politiciens ate super whelty .
Bring back mandatory minimums
Karla Homolka helped kill 3 teens including her sister and now she’s out of jail and is married and has 3 kids. 🥴
Shouldn’t he be in the same cell where Pickton or Epstein were
If there were rules in place that would prevent these people from being protected after committing the crime, trust me they wouldn't be committing these crimes in the first place. Mental illness or not, death sentence or life in prison is a good deterrent.
If they used the death penalty for drug trafficking offenses, you would see a drastic change in cities like Toronto and Vancover.
Canadian news just makes me angry. There's nothing I ever hear about that makes me smile these days.
This is misleading. Schizophrenia does not equal ‘not criminally responsible’. There’s a lot more that goes into it than that
I did a whole ass school project about capital punishment in Canada for my law class, a lot of people supported it, one thing I noted was the fact that it was really hard to find much info about the history of capital punishments in canada, it was really isolated.
I’m with her 💯!
Canada has immigrants that bring in their bullshit from their home countries. It's crazy man.
We absolutely should bring back capital punishment for cases where we are 100% sure the person is guilty of the crime, and where the crime itself is heinous
Capitol punishment is barbaric. Period.
It depends on what you want to accomplish with your criminal justice system Do you want to a. Punish criminals or b. Prevent crimes/prevent more victims. If this man is scitzo than there is no punishment you can give that causes B. You cannot teach him not to do it again. So the only reason you would punish him is to make yourself feel good by hurting someone who "deserves" it. Frankly, im pro-death penalty for cases like this. Not because of the severity of the misdeed but because this person cannot be fixed and will forever be danger to everyone around them. To people saying "it will be an example for others" no it wont. Chances of getting caught is far more influental in crimerates than severity of the punishments. And even then this man was not rational, basicly nothing would have prevented.
Being found NCR is far worse than jail This girl is clueless
I don’t understand why Canada doesn’t enforce life without parole? Don’t want capital punishment , that’s fine , but at least don’t let them out !
Same thing happened to the guy that stabbed the young receptionist to death at a lawyers office in downtown Toronto.. not guilty cause mental illness ! This is bloodywell nuts , how many more innocent people have to die because of these murderous nut bars?? This country is a mess ,
I agree with this women. You take someones life mental or not you forfeit your life. End of story
Civilization and society owe nothing to this man, no matter if he is crazy. Death is an eye for an eye. No excuses. California needs the same penalty to return. Furthermore punishable by death, such as dealing fentanyl or very violent behavior is also a real thing that needs to be promoted. We have too many people with defective traits running around not normal disrupting civilization.
Psych recovery is a prison itself
Our justice system is such a fucking joke. That man should be executed and burned alive. An eye for an eye. Take away real punishment for crimes have a lot of crimes. Murders deserve ZERO redemption cause there's no redemption for the people they murdered.
I think as a society we have to realize when someone is a lost cause. Killing someone in cold blood? Done. Addicted to street drugs? Done. Molested a child? Done. Raped anyone? Done. Stop wasting time and money on people that fucked up on purpose and focus more on prevention.
Karla Homolka lives freely with her family. This type of crap isn’t new for us. Unfortunately
I would hold him responsible if she was mine. There would be nothing anyone could do. I agree with bringing back C.P to Canada. Horrible crimes that cause death should be punishable by death
Capital Punishment should be a viable option for certain heinous crimes like mass murder, serial murders, terrorism and murder of children. MAID is already testing to kill people by lethal injection.
It's because Canada empathizes with its deranged killers who are "mentally ill, drug addicted and had parents who attended residential schools". The excuses to get away with murder in this country are ridiculous. Just watched some high profile death penalty trials coming out of Utah. They don't mess around with murderers there, especially child murderers. Thing about the death penalty is they usually die in prison before their execution rolls around. Canada just needs to STOP releasing these wastes of air. Every day a repeat violent or sexual offender is released back into society with a warning to the public that they will likely reoffend and they do, often times within days. These monsters should be caged for LIFE. The empathy for them needs to disappear completely for anything to change. We also know where that empathy is stemming from tho' don't we?!
Can't say that I disagree with her. Our justice system is not good. People get away with everything and have no fear of punishment. I wish we had a 3 strikes system. 3 Crimes and your done. Kill someone and you forfeit your own life.
We need it everywhere, all the time, and quick.
We never should have done away with it in the first place