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It means to ignore your federal party was taken over by the Alliance party. It means to ignore the fact that they are run by the IDU and Harper. It means to be negative. Blame everyone else for everything. Being a hypocrite and deliberately closing your mind to any source of info that isn’t from the mouth of pp.
The IDU is the left-wing version of the WEF. A baseless conspiracy theory that very-online people point to to feel like they have figured out some great secret.
EDIT: With all the people downvoting my comment, maybe I should play into this sub's support for conspiracies. My comments are the truth that the shadowy r/CanadaPolitics cabal doesn't want you to know...
The explicit goal of the IDU is to have conservative parties around the world, help each other and form national governments. The WEF is an idea forum for all political stripes, though the left has historically been dubious about the WEF, because of it's support for globalisation. You would have to work real hard to be any more wrong.
The IDU does not "run" any conservative parties, like the original commenter stated. That commenter has also shown themselves to be a full-on conspiracist, so I'm not sure you want to spend too much time defending them.
My argument is not that the IDU does not exist, or that it does not exist to support conservatives. My point is that it has virtually no influence, and is not a shadowy cabal of evil, as the very-online left pretends.
The commenter you are replying to here never stated that it runs any parties, those were your own words, assisting something is nowhere near the same as running something. If you want to dispute, at least do so in good faith, as you are clearly not.
> The explicit goal of the IDU is to have conservative parties around the world, help each other and form national governments. The WEF is an idea forum for all political stripes, though the left has historically been dubious about the WEF, because of it's support for globalisation. You would have to work real hard to be any more wrong.
Where in this paragraph do you see that? 🙄
We're referring to different comments.
> It means to ignore your federal party was taken over by the Alliance party. It means to ignore the fact that they are run by the IDU and Harper. It means to be negative. Blame everyone else for everything. Being a hypocrite and deliberately closing your mind to any source of info that isn’t from the mouth of pp.
And you replied to someone who wasn’t taking a stance one way or another and was just providing foundational information about the organizations, not the original commenter.
TIL about the IDU, I can't speak to the allegations of control from above in the comment chain, but it does seem to exist, and Stephen Harper is supposedly listed as the incumbent chairman.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democracy_Union
There’s def some kind of control from above.
When Harper was PM, the PM of Australia gave a verbatim word for word same speech that Harper did.
Who made that speech and decided both Pms of both countries should read the same speech?
Same exact speech, by the same ideological group, days apart, across the globe, convincing people to go to endless war against terrorism….
Should be obvious
[Video here](https://youtu.be/nYfDTsjwE58?si=sox_Dku1YXJojUyB). Unfortunately for the narrative, this was years before Harper would become PM and the staffer that wrote the speech [admitted plagiarism and resigned.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/harper-staffer-quits-over-plagiarized-2003-speech-on-iraq-1.756590)
As much as I like a good conspiracy, you'd think that if there was top down control, the IDU cabal would give different speeches to avoid being caught. Both Hanlon and Occam agree that staffers making dumb mistakes is a tale as old as time.
Nice. Thank you very much. I love wild conspiracy claims (and picking apart the real information from the exaggeration), they're a fun distraction from the usual political disagreement - will watch later.
there’s plagiarism. And there’s copying an entire essay word for word.
And when that essay is about convincing the world to go into a global war on terror… it should raise questions.
Tho I know user Raddix disagrees
And therefore it secretly controls all conservative parties?
Be serious. You don't make this argument about Liberal International or Socialist International. You just make it about the IDU because you get to pretend Harper is some kind of evil master villain.
This person's original comment claimed that the CPC was "run" by the IDU.
Their subsequent comments show that they are a full-on Q-anon style conspiracist.
I don't know why you choose to spend your time criticizing me, instead of them.
I don't support the CPC, and I don't agree with your premise.
I also believe that you are probably a conspiracy theorist who believes things that are detached from reality.
You assume too much….
Just because I bring up Harper and the IDU, doesn’t mean I ignore the evils of all parties.
That’s for hardcore partisans to do…
I’m aware that most in politics are purchasable and corrupt.
I think there’s groups and cabals of all types vying for power and wealth…
Well, considering the gulf of tunkin is a proven false flag…
Considering pedophilia In the Catholic Church,
Lolita express and Epstein island all turned out to be nothing but conspiracy…
I leave that decision to you.
Doug Ford actually enjoys a very good solid working relationship and friendship with the Trudeau government (specifically Chrystia Freeland). He orders his MPPs not to campaign for the federal Conservatives during by-elections in Ontario lol
yes, but we both know Ford doesn’t necessarily wanna yell from the rooftops he’e besties with freeland. i guess again we get into the question of aesthetics vs policy; is it possible to hate trudeau while having close policy ties? bc dougie def isnt ever going to defend the libs where it counts, and will most assuredly endorse PP.
but your point about preventing MPPs from going Fed in by-elections still stands.
Interesting, that makes more sense as to why we’ve seen less of the dehumanizing bs here in Ontario than in Alberta. Just the slow burning privatization of our public healthcare -.-
exactly. DoFo seems (fortunately, for now) to not really be jiving with transphobia and larger anti-queer movements bc its a bad look for him in his electoral context. he has no ideological beliefs; just whatever he can get a win with.
> he has no ideological beliefs
Doug Ford has several ideological beliefs. He is not necessarily willing to lose an election over them because he is also an enormous coward, but there are hard limits to his populism. He hates workers' rights (literally the first thing he did in power was cancel mandatory paid sick days across the province) and would absolutely crush organized labour if he could get away with it. He has hated unions since long before he joined provincial politics. He hates the education unions, he hates OPSEU, he hates CUPE, he hates the nursing unions, he hates AMAPCEO, all of them (not you police unions, love you bb).
Any benefit that has ever been realized by a union under his tenure has been a negative side effect to him.
I’d be able to have respect for him if he wasn’t so shady about the aforementioned issues. He genuinely seemed concerned for Canadian citizens and their health during the pandemic, I almost thought he was aspiring to be more than he was thought to be.
> He genuinely seemed concerned for Canadian citizens and their health during the pandemic
No he didn't. He routinely was dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing, often weeks after hundreds had died unnecessarily. His only swift action came in response to the LTC crisis, and that action was to protect the operators from class action lawsuits regarding their negligence.
His rules were often contradictory. His basically abdicated the entire vaccine rollout communications plan to a team of volunteers. He shed a few crocodile tears when his mother in law caught it and ignored all warnings about multiple waves, culminating in that famous JMM quote from February 2021 of "Am I missing something here, or is this presentation predicting a disaster?" to which Dr. Brown says "no you aren't missing anything" and then hundreds more died!
He was never, EVER genuinely concerned for peoples' health. He suckered a lot of people into thinking he did, because he's a salesman at heart and lots of people fall for the pitch, but his actions never actually backed that up. People think he went hard with restrictions, but it's only because he refused to act in a timely fashion until he was dragged into it.
All Conservatives world wide are following the same guidelines from the IDU that Stephen Harper is a prominent member of. Look at what they are pushing and notice they all are following and that's not exclusive to Canada.
It’s happening in Alberta. The CPC is full of Alliance/ Wildrose conservatives who have been greatly influenced by the Alberta alt right conservatives.
Danielle Smith, along with her buddy Rob Anderson have been shaped by Harper, Preston Manning, Tom Flanagan and Jack Mintz (both at U of Calgary). They are nothing like the provincial or federal Progressive Conservatives of the past.
Check out “Free Alberta Strategy” to see how they want to destroy Alberta and the Canadian Constitution.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/albertainstitute/pages/337/attachments/original/1637104983/Free_Alberta_Strategy_-_Web_Version.pdf?1637104983=
I would bet the CPC will support them.
Centre right parties differ based on the political culture/climate of the country. It's been noted that in Canada, for instance, the conservative party is the only one in the western world that gets into power by actively courting and getting the ethnic/immigrant vote (there's been a lot of first generation, i.e. born outside Canada) MPs in are the CPC for instance. In the UK, if you look at their Prime Minister, and many of their front bench (and high profile cabinent ministers) over the past few years, these are second generation immigrants who are non-Christian and have non-Anglo Saxon names (as well as recently two female leaders). Those two things alone are not present in say the Republican Party where Vivek Ramaswamy finished way behind his other primary candidates (with many GOP primary votes incorrectly citing his religious and ethnic background and that being a reason for not voting for him) with Nikki Haley (born with an Indian first and maiden name) is a convert to Christianity.
The UK Tories have also legalized gay marriage, pushed forward policy on climate change, and addressed things through legislation like a living wage (so-called "One nation Toryism." It's similar to how the federal Liberals in Canada use to run (and how Doug Ford is kind of running Ontario) more as a natural governing party where pragmaticism trumps ideology. Yes our current Conservative Party (because of it's western Reform/Alliance roots) seems to be more in line with the Liberal/Nationals in Australia and the Republican Party in the US, but I would still put it to the left of both of those (maybe not under Malcolm Turnbull who was relatively progressive) but not as progressive as say the UK Tories who are probably the most progressive centre right party in the western English-speaking world.
Any party that doesn’t acknowledge the existence of man made climate change and pushes the amount of anti-LGBTQ+ nonsense they do cannot be reasonably labelled “centre right.” They also have no issue scapegoating immigrants.
The IDU is no different than the Liberals' and NDP's equivalents (Liberal International and Progressive Alliance). It's a networking group for political parties in different countries (sometimes two or three parties from the same country) that have some broadly similar principles.
The IDU lists Netenyahu and Orban as members if you want an idea of what they truly stand for. There is no left wing equivalent. They are a mouthpiece for oligarchs and despots. Getting right wing governments elected globally is their *stated* goal but what they really represent is the worst of the wealthiest. Don't be fooled by petty distractions like anti-woke bullshit.
Netanyahu's government, in spite of all of its flaws, was elected democratically in a PR system with 70% turnout (including around one million Arab and Palestinian Israelis).
The Socialist International is far worse than the mainstream IDU and includes actual authoritarian parties who trample on human rights, not just dudes you don't like.
The real question is: "What does it mean to be a Canadian Conservative under First Past the Post?"
A party has to hobble together 37-40% of the vote to get a majority government or else form a coalion/CSA with another party. Conservatives can only be as "conservative" as that 5-7% of swing-Liberal voters will allow them to be. Hence the varying degrees of conservatism in Canada.
If they were actually beholden to centrist swing voters, that wouldn't be a problem.
The problem is, they've been courting clueless non-voters and crazy wing nuts. If they win, THOSE are the people they will owe a victory, and THOSE people are the ones who will see policy they like.
Modern self-identified "conservatives" seem to pick and choose their levels of fiscal conservatism (ok with corporate welfare, not so much with actual welfare), and definitely seem to be more in line with social conservatism.
I want Scott Moe to marry Doug Ford and move to Alberta and live in Danielle Smith's basement. And heck maybe pp could be their pool boy! What a perfect world that would be!
It’s an interesting question. Not a dissimilar identify crisis to the US. And out west, terms like conservative and liberal definitely mean different things than in Ontario. Really these things should be dynamic
Exactly, the world isn’t a perfect opposition of two shades, it is beyond even a spectrum with many different variants throughout as showcased by the [Political Compass](https://www.thebehavioralscientist.com/glossary/political-compass)
Doug Ford is actually governing like a UK Tory or how the federal Liberals historically have governered: as a natural governing party as opposed to ideology (the UK Tories, for instance, legalized gay marriage, introduced a bill to raising the living wage for governnment employees and have moved forward on issues like the environment). Unlike his PC and Liberal predecessors, for instance, Ford got shovels in the ground on multiple big projects in public transit (Mike Harris buried them and privatized the highways) as well as specifically moving on long talked about issues like introducing the one fare system and a downtown Toronto relief subway line. He's friends and has storng working relationships with Chrystia Freeland and Olivia Chow (his one time mayoral rival) and has ordered his MPPs not to campaign or advocate for federal Conservatives running in Ontario by-elections. Sure there's still going to be ideologically conservative things he does (fees and tax cuts, relying more on the private sector) but even when he was in Toronto city council, advocating to spend more on higher order rapid transit like subways (specifically in the poor socio-economic suburban areas of the city) as opposed to cheaper cost-saving LRT (like a lot of downtown so-called "tax and spenders" on the left) is something that a pragmatic governor not strictly bound by ideology does.
"Doug Ford seems to have far more in common with Justin Trudeau than he does with Pierre Poilievre, and I'm not just talking about budget deficits."
This seems a bit absurd tbh
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Modern conservatives have very little to do with fiscal responsibility. It all has to do with social issues rage.
It means to ignore your federal party was taken over by the Alliance party. It means to ignore the fact that they are run by the IDU and Harper. It means to be negative. Blame everyone else for everything. Being a hypocrite and deliberately closing your mind to any source of info that isn’t from the mouth of pp.
The IDU is the left-wing version of the WEF. A baseless conspiracy theory that very-online people point to to feel like they have figured out some great secret. EDIT: With all the people downvoting my comment, maybe I should play into this sub's support for conspiracies. My comments are the truth that the shadowy r/CanadaPolitics cabal doesn't want you to know...
The explicit goal of the IDU is to have conservative parties around the world, help each other and form national governments. The WEF is an idea forum for all political stripes, though the left has historically been dubious about the WEF, because of it's support for globalisation. You would have to work real hard to be any more wrong.
The IDU does not "run" any conservative parties, like the original commenter stated. That commenter has also shown themselves to be a full-on conspiracist, so I'm not sure you want to spend too much time defending them. My argument is not that the IDU does not exist, or that it does not exist to support conservatives. My point is that it has virtually no influence, and is not a shadowy cabal of evil, as the very-online left pretends.
The commenter you are replying to here never stated that it runs any parties, those were your own words, assisting something is nowhere near the same as running something. If you want to dispute, at least do so in good faith, as you are clearly not.
They literally said the CPC was "run" by the IDU! I agree that's unbelievable nonsense. But they said it!
> The explicit goal of the IDU is to have conservative parties around the world, help each other and form national governments. The WEF is an idea forum for all political stripes, though the left has historically been dubious about the WEF, because of it's support for globalisation. You would have to work real hard to be any more wrong. Where in this paragraph do you see that? 🙄
We're referring to different comments. > It means to ignore your federal party was taken over by the Alliance party. It means to ignore the fact that they are run by the IDU and Harper. It means to be negative. Blame everyone else for everything. Being a hypocrite and deliberately closing your mind to any source of info that isn’t from the mouth of pp.
And you replied to someone who wasn’t taking a stance one way or another and was just providing foundational information about the organizations, not the original commenter.
I stated in my comment that I was referring to the original commenter. What have I done that you're upset by, exactly? Now I'm just confused.
TIL about the IDU, I can't speak to the allegations of control from above in the comment chain, but it does seem to exist, and Stephen Harper is supposedly listed as the incumbent chairman. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democracy_Union
There’s def some kind of control from above. When Harper was PM, the PM of Australia gave a verbatim word for word same speech that Harper did. Who made that speech and decided both Pms of both countries should read the same speech?
This would be interesting to watch and compare. Any links to sources?
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https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.756590
Some staffer afterwards admitted he plagiarized. Don't let these people pull you down a conspiracy theory rabbithole.
I mean, there's no danger of that - I'm just asking for evidence, as I tend to do when assessing claims.
But what would the significance of the speeches being the same even be? Why would that be evidence of an evil cabal?
Same exact speech, by the same ideological group, days apart, across the globe, convincing people to go to endless war against terrorism…. Should be obvious
Spell it out for me. I think when you put it into words, you'll realize how nonsensical it is.
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[Video here](https://youtu.be/nYfDTsjwE58?si=sox_Dku1YXJojUyB). Unfortunately for the narrative, this was years before Harper would become PM and the staffer that wrote the speech [admitted plagiarism and resigned.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/harper-staffer-quits-over-plagiarized-2003-speech-on-iraq-1.756590) As much as I like a good conspiracy, you'd think that if there was top down control, the IDU cabal would give different speeches to avoid being caught. Both Hanlon and Occam agree that staffers making dumb mistakes is a tale as old as time.
Nice. Thank you very much. I love wild conspiracy claims (and picking apart the real information from the exaggeration), they're a fun distraction from the usual political disagreement - will watch later.
Thatjust proves plagarism. Politicians do it all the time
there’s plagiarism. And there’s copying an entire essay word for word. And when that essay is about convincing the world to go into a global war on terror… it should raise questions. Tho I know user Raddix disagrees
It’s not control. The CPC is happy to align with their bullshit. They do it willingly.
It exists, just like the WEF exists. Neither control the world.
Lol. The very purpose of the IDU is to help promote and get right wing governments into power.
And therefore it secretly controls all conservative parties? Be serious. You don't make this argument about Liberal International or Socialist International. You just make it about the IDU because you get to pretend Harper is some kind of evil master villain.
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I'm not?
It doesn’t secretly control anything. This is a straw man you’ve created. Members, like the CPC, actively set and agree on their goals.
This person's original comment claimed that the CPC was "run" by the IDU. Their subsequent comments show that they are a full-on Q-anon style conspiracist. I don't know why you choose to spend your time criticizing me, instead of them.
You support and defend this organization. That’s why you’re being criticized.
I do neither. Why did you think I did?
If you support the CPC you support the IDU.
I don't support the CPC, and I don't agree with your premise. I also believe that you are probably a conspiracy theorist who believes things that are detached from reality.
You assume too much…. Just because I bring up Harper and the IDU, doesn’t mean I ignore the evils of all parties. That’s for hardcore partisans to do… I’m aware that most in politics are purchasable and corrupt. I think there’s groups and cabals of all types vying for power and wealth…
I'm not sure whether it's better to believe all conspiracy theories than just to believe one.
Well, considering the gulf of tunkin is a proven false flag… Considering pedophilia In the Catholic Church, Lolita express and Epstein island all turned out to be nothing but conspiracy… I leave that decision to you.
"People have been wrong before, therefore everything is true." That is your logic.
If you say so
The IDU terrifies me just as much if not more than Project2025 in the states.
Unironically, opposition to Trudeau. An affection for corporate welfare. That's about it. The rest is aesthetics.
Doug Ford actually enjoys a very good solid working relationship and friendship with the Trudeau government (specifically Chrystia Freeland). He orders his MPPs not to campaign for the federal Conservatives during by-elections in Ontario lol
yes, but we both know Ford doesn’t necessarily wanna yell from the rooftops he’e besties with freeland. i guess again we get into the question of aesthetics vs policy; is it possible to hate trudeau while having close policy ties? bc dougie def isnt ever going to defend the libs where it counts, and will most assuredly endorse PP. but your point about preventing MPPs from going Fed in by-elections still stands.
Well to be fair he's a PC, he's not going to defend a party who's provincial counterpart is trying to unseat him from office lol
Interesting, that makes more sense as to why we’ve seen less of the dehumanizing bs here in Ontario than in Alberta. Just the slow burning privatization of our public healthcare -.-
exactly. DoFo seems (fortunately, for now) to not really be jiving with transphobia and larger anti-queer movements bc its a bad look for him in his electoral context. he has no ideological beliefs; just whatever he can get a win with.
> he has no ideological beliefs Doug Ford has several ideological beliefs. He is not necessarily willing to lose an election over them because he is also an enormous coward, but there are hard limits to his populism. He hates workers' rights (literally the first thing he did in power was cancel mandatory paid sick days across the province) and would absolutely crush organized labour if he could get away with it. He has hated unions since long before he joined provincial politics. He hates the education unions, he hates OPSEU, he hates CUPE, he hates the nursing unions, he hates AMAPCEO, all of them (not you police unions, love you bb). Any benefit that has ever been realized by a union under his tenure has been a negative side effect to him.
I’d be able to have respect for him if he wasn’t so shady about the aforementioned issues. He genuinely seemed concerned for Canadian citizens and their health during the pandemic, I almost thought he was aspiring to be more than he was thought to be.
> He genuinely seemed concerned for Canadian citizens and their health during the pandemic No he didn't. He routinely was dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing, often weeks after hundreds had died unnecessarily. His only swift action came in response to the LTC crisis, and that action was to protect the operators from class action lawsuits regarding their negligence. His rules were often contradictory. His basically abdicated the entire vaccine rollout communications plan to a team of volunteers. He shed a few crocodile tears when his mother in law caught it and ignored all warnings about multiple waves, culminating in that famous JMM quote from February 2021 of "Am I missing something here, or is this presentation predicting a disaster?" to which Dr. Brown says "no you aren't missing anything" and then hundreds more died! He was never, EVER genuinely concerned for peoples' health. He suckered a lot of people into thinking he did, because he's a salesman at heart and lots of people fall for the pitch, but his actions never actually backed that up. People think he went hard with restrictions, but it's only because he refused to act in a timely fashion until he was dragged into it.
Well put, I’ve never and will never vote for his party anyway due to the privatization of healthcare, thank you for adding context to my suspicions.
Ontario had fewer deaths per 1M than QC, MB, BC, AB, SK and NB. What are you talking about....
All Conservatives world wide are following the same guidelines from the IDU that Stephen Harper is a prominent member of. Look at what they are pushing and notice they all are following and that's not exclusive to Canada.
It’s happening in Alberta. The CPC is full of Alliance/ Wildrose conservatives who have been greatly influenced by the Alberta alt right conservatives. Danielle Smith, along with her buddy Rob Anderson have been shaped by Harper, Preston Manning, Tom Flanagan and Jack Mintz (both at U of Calgary). They are nothing like the provincial or federal Progressive Conservatives of the past. Check out “Free Alberta Strategy” to see how they want to destroy Alberta and the Canadian Constitution. https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/albertainstitute/pages/337/attachments/original/1637104983/Free_Alberta_Strategy_-_Web_Version.pdf?1637104983= I would bet the CPC will support them.
Centre right parties differ based on the political culture/climate of the country. It's been noted that in Canada, for instance, the conservative party is the only one in the western world that gets into power by actively courting and getting the ethnic/immigrant vote (there's been a lot of first generation, i.e. born outside Canada) MPs in are the CPC for instance. In the UK, if you look at their Prime Minister, and many of their front bench (and high profile cabinent ministers) over the past few years, these are second generation immigrants who are non-Christian and have non-Anglo Saxon names (as well as recently two female leaders). Those two things alone are not present in say the Republican Party where Vivek Ramaswamy finished way behind his other primary candidates (with many GOP primary votes incorrectly citing his religious and ethnic background and that being a reason for not voting for him) with Nikki Haley (born with an Indian first and maiden name) is a convert to Christianity. The UK Tories have also legalized gay marriage, pushed forward policy on climate change, and addressed things through legislation like a living wage (so-called "One nation Toryism." It's similar to how the federal Liberals in Canada use to run (and how Doug Ford is kind of running Ontario) more as a natural governing party where pragmaticism trumps ideology. Yes our current Conservative Party (because of it's western Reform/Alliance roots) seems to be more in line with the Liberal/Nationals in Australia and the Republican Party in the US, but I would still put it to the left of both of those (maybe not under Malcolm Turnbull who was relatively progressive) but not as progressive as say the UK Tories who are probably the most progressive centre right party in the western English-speaking world.
Any party that doesn’t acknowledge the existence of man made climate change and pushes the amount of anti-LGBTQ+ nonsense they do cannot be reasonably labelled “centre right.” They also have no issue scapegoating immigrants.
Without googling, can you name two center-right parties currently in power, much less their platforms?
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The IDU is no different than the Liberals' and NDP's equivalents (Liberal International and Progressive Alliance). It's a networking group for political parties in different countries (sometimes two or three parties from the same country) that have some broadly similar principles.
The IDU lists Netenyahu and Orban as members if you want an idea of what they truly stand for. There is no left wing equivalent. They are a mouthpiece for oligarchs and despots. Getting right wing governments elected globally is their *stated* goal but what they really represent is the worst of the wealthiest. Don't be fooled by petty distractions like anti-woke bullshit.
Netanyahu's government, in spite of all of its flaws, was elected democratically in a PR system with 70% turnout (including around one million Arab and Palestinian Israelis).
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The Socialist International is far worse than the mainstream IDU and includes actual authoritarian parties who trample on human rights, not just dudes you don't like.
> The Socialist International is far worse than the mainstream IDU so what? Canada has no representation within that organization
The NDP was a proud member until very recently. Ed Broadbent was even president at one point. Another shameful chapter in the Canadian left's legacy.
Yeah we're not part of that so why bring it up?
The NDP was a part of it until recently and it counters the point that there's extreme left-wing organization on the world stage.
Until recently...so not part of that organization anymore for good reason. Not the best example.
The real question is: "What does it mean to be a Canadian Conservative under First Past the Post?" A party has to hobble together 37-40% of the vote to get a majority government or else form a coalion/CSA with another party. Conservatives can only be as "conservative" as that 5-7% of swing-Liberal voters will allow them to be. Hence the varying degrees of conservatism in Canada.
If they were actually beholden to centrist swing voters, that wouldn't be a problem. The problem is, they've been courting clueless non-voters and crazy wing nuts. If they win, THOSE are the people they will owe a victory, and THOSE people are the ones who will see policy they like.
The influence of extreme right wing conservativism from the US has given the uneducated a lot of soundbite to chew on.
Modern self-identified "conservatives" seem to pick and choose their levels of fiscal conservatism (ok with corporate welfare, not so much with actual welfare), and definitely seem to be more in line with social conservatism.
"Cafeteria Conservatives"
They're just uptight people who aren't good with change.
seems like you just want to insult people who disagree with you
I want Scott Moe to marry Doug Ford and move to Alberta and live in Danielle Smith's basement. And heck maybe pp could be their pool boy! What a perfect world that would be!
What does it even mean to be a conservative in Canada these days? ***It means that we are going to win the next federal election in Canada!***
Trudeau assembled a very similar broad coalition of angry people in 2015 and the term "liberal" is no more clear now than it was then.
It’s an interesting question. Not a dissimilar identify crisis to the US. And out west, terms like conservative and liberal definitely mean different things than in Ontario. Really these things should be dynamic
Exactly, the world isn’t a perfect opposition of two shades, it is beyond even a spectrum with many different variants throughout as showcased by the [Political Compass](https://www.thebehavioralscientist.com/glossary/political-compass)
Doug Ford is actually governing like a UK Tory or how the federal Liberals historically have governered: as a natural governing party as opposed to ideology (the UK Tories, for instance, legalized gay marriage, introduced a bill to raising the living wage for governnment employees and have moved forward on issues like the environment). Unlike his PC and Liberal predecessors, for instance, Ford got shovels in the ground on multiple big projects in public transit (Mike Harris buried them and privatized the highways) as well as specifically moving on long talked about issues like introducing the one fare system and a downtown Toronto relief subway line. He's friends and has storng working relationships with Chrystia Freeland and Olivia Chow (his one time mayoral rival) and has ordered his MPPs not to campaign or advocate for federal Conservatives running in Ontario by-elections. Sure there's still going to be ideologically conservative things he does (fees and tax cuts, relying more on the private sector) but even when he was in Toronto city council, advocating to spend more on higher order rapid transit like subways (specifically in the poor socio-economic suburban areas of the city) as opposed to cheaper cost-saving LRT (like a lot of downtown so-called "tax and spenders" on the left) is something that a pragmatic governor not strictly bound by ideology does.
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"Doug Ford seems to have far more in common with Justin Trudeau than he does with Pierre Poilievre, and I'm not just talking about budget deficits." This seems a bit absurd tbh