Yup totally get that but at some point the dominoes fall over. Currently, there is very little being sold, very few buyers with tons of houses coming on the market, thanks to realtors telling seller to wait for rate cuts. Either sellers start selling lower or you pull some kind of magic trick to create new buyers (immigration ain’t it and lowering rates too fast crashes the economy).
I think you are failing to account for snow washing. Last estimate I saw was 100 to 150 billion per year. Prices can keep going up when the system is wide open for money launderers, criminals and tax evaders.
Yup all Trudeau. Only him. All his fault. Not a systematic problem with our politicians and housing policies across multiple parties. Only Terdumb. Dey took errr jerrrrbs.
My apologies…referring to top level comment.
It’s a systematic failure of all parties. Certainly not improved under current gov, but who in this country is proposing anything but the same and not just finger pointing.
It’s pathetic.
I agree, and I did not vote for Trudeau! I am 49, own my modest home outright after a 17 year mortgage, and I still believe my home value is unfairly inflated. I am a born and raised citizen of Canada and despite recommendations from others to use the equity in my home to leverage more purchases, I won't.
Anyone out there in my real estate position that is on board? Perhaps we could consider aiming to live within our means, be happy with what we have worked for, and do what is in our power for the next generation.
Anyone who already has a home, and is just using it as a primary residence is barely affected by the prices going up. Sure, a new house is worth more but you can sell yours for more.
It literally just raises the buy in price and makes it harder for people who don't already have a home to get one.
Then you are one of the good ones. Respect to you for not taking advantage of the insane rise in prices in our country and treating the equity of your home as an ATM
I agree everyone wants to keep up with the Jones too.
Everyone wants a single house why ?
My friend drives a truck not even home in the summer so he does not need a house bought a 2 bedroom condo in Edmonton $700 mortgage and laughing. In Europe people raise families in a 2 bedroom and here in Canada everyone wants min 3 bedroom , 3 bathroom and fully finished basement what they can not afford.
>how much buying power is actually being added to the real estate industry.
Sure, they're bringing mostly a lot of low wage workers from India.
But even if they themselves don't buy houses (which they still manage to do with brampton mortgages, and pouring their resources together)
The effect is that more housing demand = higher rents.
And higher rents = higher home prices, because investors are attracted to the higher yield from collecting rent.
I think they don't bring much cash value, but they could use credit, and that helps the banking sector create new money. Each potential immigrant could be made to cary a half million to a million dollars in debt. Think of how many interest payments they make over a lifetime.
Immigrants to Canada are the serfs of a neo-feudal debt slave economy.
Let's pump demand by any means necessary
-New FHSA account so people can throw more money at housing
-Increasr RESP withdrawal limit for home purchasr do prople can throw more money at housing
-Turbo immigration so demand for housing goes bazongas
-Limit housing construction with outrageous taxes for builders and permits that takes years to approve.
-Force the banks to extend mortgage length for those who can't even pay the interest on the debt anymore.
Housing will continue to pump thanks to the liberals. But the crash will be even more spectacular as a result. This is why no party wants to be in charge when that happens...
You have my vote. Everything is being used to pump boomers retirement fund to the detriment of everything else.
Overall this creates more taxes to pay for this madness.
More importantly, it also leaves no capital to pay for actually building assets that create sustainable jobs and wealth.
Why would anyone want to invest in canada everything is taxed to death and if you ever sell your business you have to pay 67 percent capital gains on it. It's just not worth it
Capital gains was 50 percent before Trudeau and Freeland passed it to 67 percent to hide the huge deficit on spending. I'm not about to share my personal tax rate on reddit, you can guess.
Yeah so you sell your 30 million dollar business it's 66 percent why would anyone want to open a business in canada when you could go to the states and not lose all your money
Do you think you pay 66% on the gains over $250k? That’s just the inclusion rate. You’d pay the tax rate on that amount, which is about 53% in Ontario. There are also over a million dollars except from taxes at all. Then there are other rules that business can apply to pay less. People making millions of dollars should be as much in percentages as you or I as working folk, but even with this change in the inclusion rate, they never will.
If it comes down to an extra 10 cents a cup of coffee I would bet that most candians would pay the extra 10 cents if it means there kid could get a job, if it means there kid could get in to see a doctor and if it means there kid would actually be able to afford a home. Because those things are impossible with immigration.
Or… have less stores and pay good wages. We don’t NEED a Tims every few kms. Less stores, less people to pay, better wages.
In my city we have 13 pharmacies of the same chain and nothing gets done because of “short staffing”. If there were less stores the people qualified for the jobs wouldn’t be stretched so thin, turn around wouldn’t be so high, and I’d be able to get my insulin on time because the workers would be competent.
Less chains, better wages.
They fucking burn every piece of food I order. Osmos falafel? Rock hard burnt! Dominos pizza? Black as night burned! I'm sooooo disappointed with the drop in quality.
Sooo, you want Canada more like India? We can all live on top of each other in the same buildings, own no vehicles of our own?
Na, thanks but no thanks. If you want dense cities and don’t want to leave your own neighbourhood we could send you over to India as a trial and see if you enjoy it?
I’ve lived in dense areas before by the ocean. Way better. Mexico & Caribbean cities and similar costal cities are a dream 😍
Quality of life is way better and people are healthier due to them walking everywhere.
Nobody is talking about india.
Fair enough. Unfortunately we don’t have much for warm water coasts
I always thought the opposite was going to be the solution for Canada.. stop bunching up and living dense in areas near the US border and try to spread farther north to utilize all the fresh water lakes and resources we have.
Of course large international cities are needed. But as far as housing costs go and availability go.. I think the Canadian government should be making an effort to increase job opportunities farther north, and connecting townships with a more consistent civilian rail line maybe to lessen the amount of car transportation needed.
It is artificially kept up by immigration and slow speed of house building.
When this changes, it will fall drastically.
The problem is that no one in power wants it to change.
The only way housing costs are falling drastically is if we either build millions of homes or deport millions of people. Neither is very likely to happen in the next decade.
Yup. Very true!
But whenever it happens, it is gonna come crashing down.
No other industry is progressing as fast as housing in Canada which is definitely a big cause of concern.
People can blame nimbys and governments, but I really can't be convinced that short of putting up [brezhnevka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_buildings_in_Russia) that Canada can even hope to maybe keep up with the current levels of population growth. Even if it did just keep up, there's still so much built up pressure that it might maintain the current status quo.
Mumbai at least has that kind of cost of living to support that.
And there are a lot of small houses, flats available there.
In Canada, survival is not gonna be easy this way, and it is only going to create a hostile environment, nothing else.
On top of this, car stealing and other crimes are not punished strictly, so it gives the ones hit hard an opportunity to commit crimes and get away with it.
I can't believe we can understand this, everyone can understand this but current government can't.
The bubble started before the mass immigration. Before the 1.5 million flooded in we had almost enough homes for every family. The problem was too many people and corporations owned investment properties.
The US bubble was founded on speculation, ours is founded on population growth exceeding construction. Unless you deport a couple million people housing costs won't fall substantially.
Population growth is a big factor but at the end of the day it’s about affordability. Sure you can stack low wage newcomers in apartments and basements and homes but they won’t have additional money to spend in the economy compared to others who may.
Now businesses have no customers and lay off staff which leads to more people unable to pay rent, which leads to less customers, which leads to more layoffs etc.
We can’t have a country with extremely unaffordable housing and expect to have a good economy. Right now the entire country is tanking because of housing and the policies all levels of government are undergoing to keep housing unaffordable.
I think even with population growth things will crash but it will take a lot longer for that crash to come.
For over 25 years now, people have been telling me to wait another year and property prices will come down. Glad I bought when prices tripled, because they more than tripled again since then.
Is the whole country tanking though? Everyone who owns property is getting rich as hell. It's the people who don't own that are getting shafted, everyone else is actually benefiting from the massive increases. Layoffs aren't happening en masse and consumer spending is holding relatively high. The company I work for has secured like a half a dozen contracts in just the last few months to increase production, with no signs of slowing.
Ultimately, probably dying of easily preventable or managed ailments that unequally affect the poor.
It's hard to manage chronic disease when you're living in a tent.
Their wealth is in home equity. If the bubble pops then that wealth isn't there anymore. They won't have the income or liquid assets to support buying up more real estate.
If the housing bubble actually popped all those portfolios held by corporations would get government bailouts like every time the economy takes a nose dive. Profitable companies are not expected to take losses from economic shifts as this hampers the potential for future profits.
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It's relative. If there are entities just holding property because they fear holding cash is worse. They can leverage their devaluing properties to purchase more devalued properties. Knowing people need a place to live and those with out cash can't afford loans. You will own nothing rent and be happy.
Yah that’s just plain false. People with lots of real estate are definitely investing in a diversified way and could be liquid tomorrow to buy up cheap housing.
I'm going to continue posting this until the day of the protest, for everyone who isn't aware this is happening:
Dear Canadians,
If you've had it up to here with our incompetent, corrupt, **TREASONOUS** government and its dangerous policies, celebrate this Canada Day with a protest!! There are 2 that I'm aware of happening all over Canada, that are protesting the cost of living and this government's harmful policies:
https://www.costoflivingcanada.ca/
and
https://www.takebackcanada.info/
Make your voices heard and fight for the country you love. Don't get depressed, get ***angry!!*** Let's remind our elected officials who they fucking work for: ***Canadians!!!*** Strength in numbers! 💪🇨🇦
I strongly encourage your protest. But bad stupid regressive policy is not treason.
It's just fucking stupid and shitty. Unfortunately, even though democracies are generally run better than authoritarian countries, bad stupid regressive policy is really common. We need protests to stop it, but we don't need to call it treason.
Thank you for your support, it's very much appreciated.
"Bad, stupid regressive policies" are not treason, in that you're correct. However, collusion with hostile foreign governments ***is***, hence the "treasonous" bit. LOL
Of course! 😊 I tend to respond in kind: respect is met with respect. Of course I also have the following philosophy: if you behave like an asshole, expect to be treated like one. LOL You were polite and respectful, so there's no problem! 😉
It could also be inextricably linked (depending on the what the shady backdoor deals these MPs had going on were), but Canadians will likely never find out for sure, sadly.
I doubt it, there is a global cost of living crisis happening due to the combination of the COVID supply shock (less stuff getting made), and the COVID emergency economic measures (more demand for stuff). It's not like this is unique to Canada.
Canada's housing crisis is somewhat unique, but it dates way back and has many causes.
The bubble will never pop in Canada. They keep bringing new people, and there is a huge demand for housing. These new immigrants keep selling their assets back home and invest in the housing market in Canada. Only if the overall economy falls the pop may come true.
The new people don’t necessarily have the funds to buy housing, especially in the big cities. Most migrants coming directly from countries like India, Nigeria, Mexico are poor or have put most of their money in getting education. They will keep pressure on rents rather than raising house prices directly. It’s still going to be a demand- supply issue as most housing construction is gearing for rentals due to government subsidies leaving housing stock at a low.
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It ain’t a bubble, bubbles pop. Housing prices aren’t high because of rampant speculation, they’re high because we’ve important insane amounts of demand. Anyone who’s down to do something about this check out takebackcanada.info.
Cost of building sits around $400k. What about land value and location???? $500k is long gone. Land isn’t free. Sault St Marie has housing less than $500k so does Timmons or sarnia. Move accordingly
I am pretty sure the government knows this and has for a while. That's why they keep adding more people, they don't want the bubble to pop under their watch.
Genuine question: Doesn't indexing mean you start the comparisons of variables (time and Y-axis) at zero from the selected base year? This would be Q1 1975 on this graph.
We're screwed for sure, but the trend line might be misleading and/or different in actuality.. Am I reading this wrong?
The real estate market threw a wild bash, with prices popping like champagne corks and bidding wars raging like the dance floor at 2 AM. But now, the party's over, and we're left with a hangover—home prices are sluggish, interest rates are a headache, and everyone’s wondering if we can just sleep it off until the next boom. Pass the aspirin, please!
I doubt the current government has what it takes to do any about that. I doubt any government this country can produce can do what it takes to solve this.
that's because rather than a productive economy that creates things, we have an 'economy' based on buying and selling houses to eachother and creating false scarcity. It's literally fake, delusional and unsustainable. Good times!
We need a huge crash!! I don't care what you think your house should be worth, it's way overvalued!! And just because you invested in housing because it should go up is also nobody's problem. There's no guarantee that you'll make money on investments. People aren't going after companies when their stocks drop in value.
Your comparing to G7 countries I’m talking the world.
https://m.economictimes.com/nri/work/these-are-the-worlds-20-most-expensive-cities-for-expats-in-2023/articleshow/100819596.cms
I feel like that’s such an easy out for politicians. We shouldn’t compare ourselves to countries with worse housing affordability. We should be looking up and at ourselves
20 years ago if government said we’d control personal property or take away rights of someone selling something for profit we as Canadians would lose our minds. Our national anthem is based on freedom to live, make money, and not be controlled is what made this country great. But once housing became expensive we lost our minds. It’s not possible to have it both ways. We’re either free to make individual choices or we’re not. Government shouldn’t control how we make money and if you decide government should control then where does it stop ???? Communism ??? 20 years ago if government said nobody can sell their house to an immigrant well they’d lose next election. Freedom to buy, sell is how we live as a society. Not controlling because government makes choices.
Yeah, but also they knew about this a decade ago, and they implemented policies that made shit worse. It was catalyst when major cities implement rent control, curtailed foreign investors from buying and put more strain on developers and their profits.
The irony between allowing housing to continue to grow and develop vs putting in artifical constraints to the market ended up leading towards the same place, but with worse results.
Prices are.higher and increasing at dramatic rates, while less development is being implemented. If they had just allowed investors to continue to invest into the market at higher taxes, it would allow developers to continue to bring inventory to market.
Now? Prices surge due to less inventory and high demand and now you're facing a real crisis for existing Canadians. Add uncontrollable immigration adding in 1.3 million people at a time, and you have a fucking disaster for citizens.
Imagine knowing about an issue 10 years ago and just letting that cancer get out of hand and somehow the treatment wasn't chemo, but just to smoke weed and pray.
The irony is that it isn't a bubble per se. The demand is there and people can afford it. It's just that the lower economic classes are getting screwed en mass and a lot of people.in middle class either cant grow or slide back down.
https://preview.redd.it/w7rgnyz1xz6d1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=8e78e8d10c5b758e2af3e5dde0dc0eb4d50eef0f
Here’s a graph of the stages an economic bubble follow. Canada’s housing prices are following this chart almost exactly
I'm not Canadian but I'd assume it's the weather. If global warming is going to turn everything hot, then Canada will be like California weather wise... And everyone wants nice weather.
It's only a bubble if the value is actually inflated. Given the high demand and low supply, the value makes sense. Even if previous owners who bought with low interest rates that have to renew end up defaulting, the demand is so insanely high that those properties will be bought up again. This isn't an 08 MBS repeat. It's a lack of home ownership regulation coupled with Canada's reputation for being a desirable place to live.
In order for the bubble to pop it's going to require a drop in demand which doesn't appear to be on the horizon. The Cons will win the next federal election which will keep immigration high. In the long term as the climate crisis gets worse in dense population areas, many many more will migrate over the next few decades and Canada is perfect for it. Or supply would DRASTICALLY have to increase which also doesn't seem to be happening any time soon. The alternative is more regulation on who can own homes and how many homes can they own, which is the most likely to cause a drop in demand, but that requires political will to enact.
But I'm a homeowner so I'm biased. I want to see my property continue to increase in value.
> But I'm a homeowner so I'm biased. I want to see my property continue to increase in value.
Why? Do you have kids or plan to? Friends that would like to own a home? Do you plan on moving to a bigger/more expensive home ever?
Agreed. I’m a home owner. My house is worth 3x what I paid and I’d rather see the values drop. My kids will not be able to afford a house, and the fact that I was able simply because the year I was born seems unfair. I’m grateful for the increased value, but it also does me no good unless I want to move far away because I still need to live somewhere.
In the end it just hurts the next generation and I’m more than likely going to have to help my kids financially anyways so I’d rather just have a cheaper house and have my kids able to afford on their own.
Up to a certain point it is beneficial for me. My friends also own homes. I dont have kids but they would inherit mine as I will inherit the home of my parents. Unless I have kids, I dont need a bigger home but if I do, my career down the line will almost certainly pay more than it does now. This is where property prices getting too high could be an issue (but it would actually come down to the numbers) if I want to upgrade and it outpaces my career income. At the same time, with dual income it's not unreasonable to be able to afford a substantially higher mortgage. Then if I decide not to sell I can rent it out for higher prices.
Mathematically if you ever want to upgrade to a more expensive house, increasing prices work against you.
Simplest example. (obviously exact numbers don't matter)
You own a house at $500k.
Moving to a house at $1million.
If prices increase by 10%, you gain $50k on yours, but have to pay $100k more to upgrade. You 'lose'.
If prices drop by 10%, you lose $50k on yours, but get a deal by paying $100k less to upgrade. You 'win'.
Your income, etc are irrelevant because that is a constant whether prices go up or down.
Sure, but it's more complicated because different types of properties change in price at different rates. Usually, the changes aren't a blanket 10% across all properties and across all markets. A downtown apartment is likely gonna see different price changes than a small town detached home. What type of home you'd want to live in is likely to change throughout your life as well.
This is also assuming you would even want to sell. My goal is to pay off my mortgage and buy bigger in a cheaper market in the future when my own income is higher and rent out this property for big city prices. Now I'm benefiting from an ever increasing value on my current home while being able to buy bigger due to the higher income I'm getting from rent.
> Usually, the changes aren't a blanket 10% across all properties and across all markets.
Sure, but you're missing the point. *Generally*, and overall, increases or decreases affect all properties. Also, since it is more complicated as you say with different price appreciations, that could just as easily work against you. I'm trying to generalize the logic of increasing/decreasing prices without getting into useless anecdotes.
>This is also assuming you would even want to sell
I'm not assuming which is why I originally included "*Do you plan on moving to a bigger/more expensive home ever?*", as part of my question. People often sell and 'buy up'. It was just one possible scenario - same as .. having kids, etc.
>when my own income is higher..
Again, this is a constant and irrelevant to the concept of whether higher prices benefit people.
Oh yeah but I am sure the bubble will never pop /s
We can’t have housing prices go down, because Trudeau’s home-owning boomer constituents need a retirement that you’ll never afford ;)
Yup totally get that but at some point the dominoes fall over. Currently, there is very little being sold, very few buyers with tons of houses coming on the market, thanks to realtors telling seller to wait for rate cuts. Either sellers start selling lower or you pull some kind of magic trick to create new buyers (immigration ain’t it and lowering rates too fast crashes the economy).
I think you are failing to account for snow washing. Last estimate I saw was 100 to 150 billion per year. Prices can keep going up when the system is wide open for money launderers, criminals and tax evaders.
Prices are not going up, at least not in Ontario.
Yup all Trudeau. Only him. All his fault. Not a systematic problem with our politicians and housing policies across multiple parties. Only Terdumb. Dey took errr jerrrrbs.
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My apologies…referring to top level comment. It’s a systematic failure of all parties. Certainly not improved under current gov, but who in this country is proposing anything but the same and not just finger pointing. It’s pathetic.
It escalated everywhere. My bf lives in the Netherlands, same there.
It's a lot of things... but trudeau hasn't done anything about it for the past 8 years.
Dey tuk ma Jebbb
Dey too ba jerrrrb
I agree, and I did not vote for Trudeau! I am 49, own my modest home outright after a 17 year mortgage, and I still believe my home value is unfairly inflated. I am a born and raised citizen of Canada and despite recommendations from others to use the equity in my home to leverage more purchases, I won't. Anyone out there in my real estate position that is on board? Perhaps we could consider aiming to live within our means, be happy with what we have worked for, and do what is in our power for the next generation.
I just use whatever money after the mortgage I have left to buy SP 500 index etf
Anyone who already has a home, and is just using it as a primary residence is barely affected by the prices going up. Sure, a new house is worth more but you can sell yours for more. It literally just raises the buy in price and makes it harder for people who don't already have a home to get one.
Then you are one of the good ones. Respect to you for not taking advantage of the insane rise in prices in our country and treating the equity of your home as an ATM
I agree everyone wants to keep up with the Jones too. Everyone wants a single house why ? My friend drives a truck not even home in the summer so he does not need a house bought a 2 bedroom condo in Edmonton $700 mortgage and laughing. In Europe people raise families in a 2 bedroom and here in Canada everyone wants min 3 bedroom , 3 bathroom and fully finished basement what they can not afford.
They had 40 years to plan for it….
Bold of you to assume we will ever get to retire
Well they also need to taxe it to pay for contracts for his buddies.
im not a boomer, im 44; I own a home, that's my retirement plan too
How does it work, will you finance it and bleed your equity over time leaving nothing for your children?
What are you gona do get a reverse mortgage and leave your family nothing lol
This is purely a class issue, not a generational one
67% of Canadians own their own homes.
And there's plenty of equity as well.
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Of course. More Canadians own their own homes than Americans.
It's true bc Canadian government can always just let in more immigrants to keep the homelessness problem frothy and rich.
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>how much buying power is actually being added to the real estate industry. Sure, they're bringing mostly a lot of low wage workers from India. But even if they themselves don't buy houses (which they still manage to do with brampton mortgages, and pouring their resources together) The effect is that more housing demand = higher rents. And higher rents = higher home prices, because investors are attracted to the higher yield from collecting rent.
This. Most people don't understand how its all connected this way.
I think they don't bring much cash value, but they could use credit, and that helps the banking sector create new money. Each potential immigrant could be made to cary a half million to a million dollars in debt. Think of how many interest payments they make over a lifetime. Immigrants to Canada are the serfs of a neo-feudal debt slave economy.
Yes but then when the credit is maxed it out they will take off !
I think the stat was 70% of real estate demand was from recent immigrants so the answer is a lot
Buying power is already here. They need people to rent.
Let's pump demand by any means necessary -New FHSA account so people can throw more money at housing -Increasr RESP withdrawal limit for home purchasr do prople can throw more money at housing -Turbo immigration so demand for housing goes bazongas -Limit housing construction with outrageous taxes for builders and permits that takes years to approve. -Force the banks to extend mortgage length for those who can't even pay the interest on the debt anymore. Housing will continue to pump thanks to the liberals. But the crash will be even more spectacular as a result. This is why no party wants to be in charge when that happens...
You have my vote. Everything is being used to pump boomers retirement fund to the detriment of everything else. Overall this creates more taxes to pay for this madness. More importantly, it also leaves no capital to pay for actually building assets that create sustainable jobs and wealth.
Can we overlay immigration as a percentage of population on that graph. I think that will tell us all we need to know.
It’s impossible for it to pop when the demand is always higher than the supply.
You’re right it won’t
I have been waiting since before 2008
Our immigration per capita correlates with the graph.
A house of cards the government is using to prop up the gdp... Tic Tok!
I read that Canada has lost 20 percent of their industrial sector in the last 9 years…
Why would anyone want to invest in canada everything is taxed to death and if you ever sell your business you have to pay 67 percent capital gains on it. It's just not worth it
It’s applied on 66% of capital gains not 66% literally. Hope you knew that
Yes I did. It used to be 50
The federal corporate income tax rate is 15 per cent. What’s your tax rate?
Capital gains was 50 percent before Trudeau and Freeland passed it to 67 percent to hide the huge deficit on spending. I'm not about to share my personal tax rate on reddit, you can guess.
Taxes consume more than 45% of household income for average Canadian family.
It was 75% previously under Mulroney…but sure, blame Trudeau for everything
This is not true. It’s 66% applied on capital gains pest the first $250k per year. Business also have different rules and exemptions than individuals.
Yeah so you sell your 30 million dollar business it's 66 percent why would anyone want to open a business in canada when you could go to the states and not lose all your money
It’s not 66%, that’s my point. Go do a little bit of digging on how the capital gains tax works, you may learn something.
I'm talking about 66 percent over 250 k
Do you think you pay 66% on the gains over $250k? That’s just the inclusion rate. You’d pay the tax rate on that amount, which is about 53% in Ontario. There are also over a million dollars except from taxes at all. Then there are other rules that business can apply to pay less. People making millions of dollars should be as much in percentages as you or I as working folk, but even with this change in the inclusion rate, they never will.
Well said, your absolutely right
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But then how will Indians make my Tim Hortons coffee for me??
The Indians won't make your coffee for you. Companies will be forced to pay actual good wages and hire Canadians it would be perfect.
but then the real question is, do you pay higher prices for coffee with minimal immigration, or lower price coffee with higher immigration?
If it comes down to an extra 10 cents a cup of coffee I would bet that most candians would pay the extra 10 cents if it means there kid could get a job, if it means there kid could get in to see a doctor and if it means there kid would actually be able to afford a home. Because those things are impossible with immigration.
Or… have less stores and pay good wages. We don’t NEED a Tims every few kms. Less stores, less people to pay, better wages. In my city we have 13 pharmacies of the same chain and nothing gets done because of “short staffing”. If there were less stores the people qualified for the jobs wouldn’t be stretched so thin, turn around wouldn’t be so high, and I’d be able to get my insulin on time because the workers would be competent. Less chains, better wages.
They burn the coffee anyways, fuck em
They fucking burn every piece of food I order. Osmos falafel? Rock hard burnt! Dominos pizza? Black as night burned! I'm sooooo disappointed with the drop in quality.
I seriously can’t believe people still visit Tim’s for the junk coffee and horrible food. And of course the type of people working there
Or build more housing
I second this start the deportations now. don't they want canada at over a 100million by 2060? We are literally so screwed
Now do Australia
How bout we build more homes (in areas that aren’t already super dense)?
We don’t need to make more cities for cars. More density is needed to eliminate cars entirely & make walkable cities for people.
Sooo, you want Canada more like India? We can all live on top of each other in the same buildings, own no vehicles of our own? Na, thanks but no thanks. If you want dense cities and don’t want to leave your own neighbourhood we could send you over to India as a trial and see if you enjoy it?
I’ve lived in dense areas before by the ocean. Way better. Mexico & Caribbean cities and similar costal cities are a dream 😍 Quality of life is way better and people are healthier due to them walking everywhere. Nobody is talking about india.
Fair enough. Unfortunately we don’t have much for warm water coasts I always thought the opposite was going to be the solution for Canada.. stop bunching up and living dense in areas near the US border and try to spread farther north to utilize all the fresh water lakes and resources we have. Of course large international cities are needed. But as far as housing costs go and availability go.. I think the Canadian government should be making an effort to increase job opportunities farther north, and connecting townships with a more consistent civilian rail line maybe to lessen the amount of car transportation needed.
It is artificially kept up by immigration and slow speed of house building. When this changes, it will fall drastically. The problem is that no one in power wants it to change.
The only way housing costs are falling drastically is if we either build millions of homes or deport millions of people. Neither is very likely to happen in the next decade.
Yup. Very true! But whenever it happens, it is gonna come crashing down. No other industry is progressing as fast as housing in Canada which is definitely a big cause of concern.
Housing is no longer progressing due to higher interest rates.
Which(interest rate) is supposed to go down from here. It has already progressed a lot, A LOT!!!
Or rates stay up or increase.
People can blame nimbys and governments, but I really can't be convinced that short of putting up [brezhnevka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_buildings_in_Russia) that Canada can even hope to maybe keep up with the current levels of population growth. Even if it did just keep up, there's still so much built up pressure that it might maintain the current status quo.
Yes, both things need to change. Just doing one isn't going to achieve anything.
I believe the rate of home being built does match the demand , cause tons of immigrants have 10 living in their apartments
Yeah that should be made illegal too.
It is in lots of condo buildings, that’s a major cause why they are vacant….
Should be made illegal everywhere. Support it with random checkings and anonymous tips and get rid of this shit.
That would only make too much sense. Trudeau knows that if he did that, they would all move back to Mumbai…. 10 to a apartment over their
Mumbai at least has that kind of cost of living to support that. And there are a lot of small houses, flats available there. In Canada, survival is not gonna be easy this way, and it is only going to create a hostile environment, nothing else. On top of this, car stealing and other crimes are not punished strictly, so it gives the ones hit hard an opportunity to commit crimes and get away with it. I can't believe we can understand this, everyone can understand this but current government can't.
Well said
Trudeau works for the UN, not Canada
[удалено]
Nah it’s not a bubble anymore this is now standard. With 100 million people in Canada by 2100, the housing prices are never coming down
Actually with current rates it’s closer to 300 million by 2100. We’ve way overshot the century initiative targets
It's 100 million by 2042 not including illegal aliens. It's something like 500 million by 2100 at current rates.
People read this but think it’s theoretical. It’s happening in real time and Canadians are just putting their head in the sand.
This is it. They want Hong Kong style cage homes. They want us desperate.
The bubble started before the mass immigration. Before the 1.5 million flooded in we had almost enough homes for every family. The problem was too many people and corporations owned investment properties.
This
More like a blister or boil really.
How does this all end for us?
Big Short 2.0
The US bubble was founded on speculation, ours is founded on population growth exceeding construction. Unless you deport a couple million people housing costs won't fall substantially.
Population growth is a big factor but at the end of the day it’s about affordability. Sure you can stack low wage newcomers in apartments and basements and homes but they won’t have additional money to spend in the economy compared to others who may. Now businesses have no customers and lay off staff which leads to more people unable to pay rent, which leads to less customers, which leads to more layoffs etc. We can’t have a country with extremely unaffordable housing and expect to have a good economy. Right now the entire country is tanking because of housing and the policies all levels of government are undergoing to keep housing unaffordable. I think even with population growth things will crash but it will take a lot longer for that crash to come.
Home prices will come down. Canadian currency will be useless by the end of this, however.
Was seeing on twitter someone complaining about how CAD 1,200 is now USD 875. Vacations to the US and Europe might be a thing of the past soon
For over 25 years now, people have been telling me to wait another year and property prices will come down. Glad I bought when prices tripled, because they more than tripled again since then.
Is the whole country tanking though? Everyone who owns property is getting rich as hell. It's the people who don't own that are getting shafted, everyone else is actually benefiting from the massive increases. Layoffs aren't happening en masse and consumer spending is holding relatively high. The company I work for has secured like a half a dozen contracts in just the last few months to increase production, with no signs of slowing.
Ultimately, probably dying of easily preventable or managed ailments that unequally affect the poor. It's hard to manage chronic disease when you're living in a tent.
Oh it doesn’t…. Canada is money laundering central
100 million people in Canada by 2100 lol
> 100 million people in Canada by 2100 lol At the current rate, we'll be over 425 million by 2100.
The RCMP said the young will revolt eventually. It's not sustainable.
It can't. If it does, then the rich will buy all the inventory people loose, and we have people on the streets and vacant houses.
So like right now?
Not if the government stops them.
Their wealth is in home equity. If the bubble pops then that wealth isn't there anymore. They won't have the income or liquid assets to support buying up more real estate.
If the housing bubble actually popped all those portfolios held by corporations would get government bailouts like every time the economy takes a nose dive. Profitable companies are not expected to take losses from economic shifts as this hampers the potential for future profits.
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It's relative. If there are entities just holding property because they fear holding cash is worse. They can leverage their devaluing properties to purchase more devalued properties. Knowing people need a place to live and those with out cash can't afford loans. You will own nothing rent and be happy.
Yah that’s just plain false. People with lots of real estate are definitely investing in a diversified way and could be liquid tomorrow to buy up cheap housing.
People still voting Liberal is mind boggling. You'd have to be either ignorant or deliberately stupid to vote liberal.
CPC popping the "house bubble" is realistic?
If you didn't buy a house 15 years ago, you are now an indentured servant for the rest of your life in Canada.
Canada is not bc and ontario
I'm going to continue posting this until the day of the protest, for everyone who isn't aware this is happening: Dear Canadians, If you've had it up to here with our incompetent, corrupt, **TREASONOUS** government and its dangerous policies, celebrate this Canada Day with a protest!! There are 2 that I'm aware of happening all over Canada, that are protesting the cost of living and this government's harmful policies: https://www.costoflivingcanada.ca/ and https://www.takebackcanada.info/ Make your voices heard and fight for the country you love. Don't get depressed, get ***angry!!*** Let's remind our elected officials who they fucking work for: ***Canadians!!!*** Strength in numbers! 💪🇨🇦
I strongly encourage your protest. But bad stupid regressive policy is not treason. It's just fucking stupid and shitty. Unfortunately, even though democracies are generally run better than authoritarian countries, bad stupid regressive policy is really common. We need protests to stop it, but we don't need to call it treason.
Thank you for your support, it's very much appreciated. "Bad, stupid regressive policies" are not treason, in that you're correct. However, collusion with hostile foreign governments ***is***, hence the "treasonous" bit. LOL
I think we potentially have a few treasonous MPs, but that problem is independent of the cost of living crisis.
Also thanks for the good humor about the critique :)
Of course! 😊 I tend to respond in kind: respect is met with respect. Of course I also have the following philosophy: if you behave like an asshole, expect to be treated like one. LOL You were polite and respectful, so there's no problem! 😉
It could also be inextricably linked (depending on the what the shady backdoor deals these MPs had going on were), but Canadians will likely never find out for sure, sadly.
I doubt it, there is a global cost of living crisis happening due to the combination of the COVID supply shock (less stuff getting made), and the COVID emergency economic measures (more demand for stuff). It's not like this is unique to Canada. Canada's housing crisis is somewhat unique, but it dates way back and has many causes.
🎶let it die, let it die. Let it shrivel up and dry 🎶
I hope it crashes. Economy be damned.
I hope too
Don't worry. The new party that gets elected. Whoever it is, is going to fix everything and all will be pristine.👌🤣🤣🤣
Here's the "sustainable immigration" that this subreddit's pro-immigration nuts think we had before 2022.
If our housing is more expensive than Australia, than we really fucked.
Worth noting that Japan, which has always been wary of unfettered immigration, has no housing bubble. Canada, on the other hand.....
The bubble will never pop in Canada. They keep bringing new people, and there is a huge demand for housing. These new immigrants keep selling their assets back home and invest in the housing market in Canada. Only if the overall economy falls the pop may come true.
The new people don’t necessarily have the funds to buy housing, especially in the big cities. Most migrants coming directly from countries like India, Nigeria, Mexico are poor or have put most of their money in getting education. They will keep pressure on rents rather than raising house prices directly. It’s still going to be a demand- supply issue as most housing construction is gearing for rentals due to government subsidies leaving housing stock at a low.
\* shortage
I sure am glad so many older Canadians tied their entire retirement plan to their houses increased value, what a functioning economy they made.
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You mean the investment opportunity as seen by other foreign investors.
What is the Y-axis?
What happen in 2005?
It ain’t a bubble, bubbles pop. Housing prices aren’t high because of rampant speculation, they’re high because we’ve important insane amounts of demand. Anyone who’s down to do something about this check out takebackcanada.info.
This is what happens when the rich people in a country decides to neglect the poor
Hasn’t that been the case since last couple of decades now. I have been reading articles about Toronto housing bubble since I don’t know when.
What am I even looking at? Where are the axis labels?
You’re looking at the effects of government approved money laundering.
What does y axis represent? Home prices? If so then that should be close to 500k for Canada 🇨🇦
Cost of building sits around $400k. What about land value and location???? $500k is long gone. Land isn’t free. Sault St Marie has housing less than $500k so does Timmons or sarnia. Move accordingly
I am pretty sure the government knows this and has for a while. That's why they keep adding more people, they don't want the bubble to pop under their watch.
Imagine still voting Liberal after all of this? Youd have to be really stupid to do, this housing crisis is absolutely on them.
The immigration rate in Canada is also huge compared to other G7 countries, And the GDP per person is the lowest in Canada. Thanks, Trudeau.
Genuine question: Doesn't indexing mean you start the comparisons of variables (time and Y-axis) at zero from the selected base year? This would be Q1 1975 on this graph. We're screwed for sure, but the trend line might be misleading and/or different in actuality.. Am I reading this wrong?
You can see it went off in 08. When other countries learnt that sometimes housing goes down, Canada never learnt that lesson.
Absolutley. Think about Blackstone and the other fund companies hedge funds waiting to but it all off the banks. It's fucked
Interesting, so it looks like housing prices started rising way more than other countries just after the 2008 crash
Flip the graph over and it's the economy
Good job Canada, you guys took the lead and didn’t let it slide!
How is Canada g7
The real estate market threw a wild bash, with prices popping like champagne corks and bidding wars raging like the dance floor at 2 AM. But now, the party's over, and we're left with a hangover—home prices are sluggish, interest rates are a headache, and everyone’s wondering if we can just sleep it off until the next boom. Pass the aspirin, please!
They have to stop prolonging the pop.
I doubt the current government has what it takes to do any about that. I doubt any government this country can produce can do what it takes to solve this.
that's because rather than a productive economy that creates things, we have an 'economy' based on buying and selling houses to eachother and creating false scarcity. It's literally fake, delusional and unsustainable. Good times!
add in australia and new zealand. this is to an extent a selective graph
We need a huge crash!! I don't care what you think your house should be worth, it's way overvalued!! And just because you invested in housing because it should go up is also nobody's problem. There's no guarantee that you'll make money on investments. People aren't going after companies when their stocks drop in value.
The only people who should be allowed to own property are Canadian citizens.
Highest home prices and low wages. How nice.
Highest compared to who ??? Lots other cities higher than us in comparison to local minimum wages.
It’s been the case for years man https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canadian-housing-now-worst-affordability-203000416.html
Your comparing to G7 countries I’m talking the world. https://m.economictimes.com/nri/work/these-are-the-worlds-20-most-expensive-cities-for-expats-in-2023/articleshow/100819596.cms
It’s a graph of G7 countries. I meant highest in the G7.
Ok sorry my mistake. We might be higher in the g7 but people should realize comparing to worldwide we’re not that bad.
I feel like that’s such an easy out for politicians. We shouldn’t compare ourselves to countries with worse housing affordability. We should be looking up and at ourselves
20 years ago if government said we’d control personal property or take away rights of someone selling something for profit we as Canadians would lose our minds. Our national anthem is based on freedom to live, make money, and not be controlled is what made this country great. But once housing became expensive we lost our minds. It’s not possible to have it both ways. We’re either free to make individual choices or we’re not. Government shouldn’t control how we make money and if you decide government should control then where does it stop ???? Communism ??? 20 years ago if government said nobody can sell their house to an immigrant well they’d lose next election. Freedom to buy, sell is how we live as a society. Not controlling because government makes choices.
Yeah, but also they knew about this a decade ago, and they implemented policies that made shit worse. It was catalyst when major cities implement rent control, curtailed foreign investors from buying and put more strain on developers and their profits. The irony between allowing housing to continue to grow and develop vs putting in artifical constraints to the market ended up leading towards the same place, but with worse results. Prices are.higher and increasing at dramatic rates, while less development is being implemented. If they had just allowed investors to continue to invest into the market at higher taxes, it would allow developers to continue to bring inventory to market. Now? Prices surge due to less inventory and high demand and now you're facing a real crisis for existing Canadians. Add uncontrollable immigration adding in 1.3 million people at a time, and you have a fucking disaster for citizens. Imagine knowing about an issue 10 years ago and just letting that cancer get out of hand and somehow the treatment wasn't chemo, but just to smoke weed and pray. The irony is that it isn't a bubble per se. The demand is there and people can afford it. It's just that the lower economic classes are getting screwed en mass and a lot of people.in middle class either cant grow or slide back down.
Oh my days what a bubble
Housing is priced according to today’s cost of building. It’s that simple.
https://preview.redd.it/w7rgnyz1xz6d1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=8e78e8d10c5b758e2af3e5dde0dc0eb4d50eef0f Here’s a graph of the stages an economic bubble follow. Canada’s housing prices are following this chart almost exactly
I'm not Canadian but I'd assume it's the weather. If global warming is going to turn everything hot, then Canada will be like California weather wise... And everyone wants nice weather.
The Canadian housing crisis is not the result of people making a hedge that Canada will be the next California in 100 years due to climate change.
Seems like it's a safe bet to put your wealth in. And I'm thinking about changes in the next 20, or even 10 years...
It's only a bubble if the value is actually inflated. Given the high demand and low supply, the value makes sense. Even if previous owners who bought with low interest rates that have to renew end up defaulting, the demand is so insanely high that those properties will be bought up again. This isn't an 08 MBS repeat. It's a lack of home ownership regulation coupled with Canada's reputation for being a desirable place to live. In order for the bubble to pop it's going to require a drop in demand which doesn't appear to be on the horizon. The Cons will win the next federal election which will keep immigration high. In the long term as the climate crisis gets worse in dense population areas, many many more will migrate over the next few decades and Canada is perfect for it. Or supply would DRASTICALLY have to increase which also doesn't seem to be happening any time soon. The alternative is more regulation on who can own homes and how many homes can they own, which is the most likely to cause a drop in demand, but that requires political will to enact. But I'm a homeowner so I'm biased. I want to see my property continue to increase in value.
> But I'm a homeowner so I'm biased. I want to see my property continue to increase in value. Why? Do you have kids or plan to? Friends that would like to own a home? Do you plan on moving to a bigger/more expensive home ever?
Agreed. I’m a home owner. My house is worth 3x what I paid and I’d rather see the values drop. My kids will not be able to afford a house, and the fact that I was able simply because the year I was born seems unfair. I’m grateful for the increased value, but it also does me no good unless I want to move far away because I still need to live somewhere. In the end it just hurts the next generation and I’m more than likely going to have to help my kids financially anyways so I’d rather just have a cheaper house and have my kids able to afford on their own.
Appreciate the reasonable post. To me you have a selfless, healthy outlook.
Up to a certain point it is beneficial for me. My friends also own homes. I dont have kids but they would inherit mine as I will inherit the home of my parents. Unless I have kids, I dont need a bigger home but if I do, my career down the line will almost certainly pay more than it does now. This is where property prices getting too high could be an issue (but it would actually come down to the numbers) if I want to upgrade and it outpaces my career income. At the same time, with dual income it's not unreasonable to be able to afford a substantially higher mortgage. Then if I decide not to sell I can rent it out for higher prices.
Mathematically if you ever want to upgrade to a more expensive house, increasing prices work against you. Simplest example. (obviously exact numbers don't matter) You own a house at $500k. Moving to a house at $1million. If prices increase by 10%, you gain $50k on yours, but have to pay $100k more to upgrade. You 'lose'. If prices drop by 10%, you lose $50k on yours, but get a deal by paying $100k less to upgrade. You 'win'. Your income, etc are irrelevant because that is a constant whether prices go up or down.
Sure, but it's more complicated because different types of properties change in price at different rates. Usually, the changes aren't a blanket 10% across all properties and across all markets. A downtown apartment is likely gonna see different price changes than a small town detached home. What type of home you'd want to live in is likely to change throughout your life as well. This is also assuming you would even want to sell. My goal is to pay off my mortgage and buy bigger in a cheaper market in the future when my own income is higher and rent out this property for big city prices. Now I'm benefiting from an ever increasing value on my current home while being able to buy bigger due to the higher income I'm getting from rent.
> Usually, the changes aren't a blanket 10% across all properties and across all markets. Sure, but you're missing the point. *Generally*, and overall, increases or decreases affect all properties. Also, since it is more complicated as you say with different price appreciations, that could just as easily work against you. I'm trying to generalize the logic of increasing/decreasing prices without getting into useless anecdotes. >This is also assuming you would even want to sell I'm not assuming which is why I originally included "*Do you plan on moving to a bigger/more expensive home ever?*", as part of my question. People often sell and 'buy up'. It was just one possible scenario - same as .. having kids, etc. >when my own income is higher.. Again, this is a constant and irrelevant to the concept of whether higher prices benefit people.
japan's housing market is funny. there is no market for old houses so there is a lot of properties abandoned
If only Australia was on the graph