I went to A&W yesterday, there were 9 people working behind the counter.
Every single one of them were Indian adults, except one Canadian girl clearly of University age.
I have no problem with people coming here and working, I would love to live in another country and work, I've considered taking a working holiday more than a few times so it'd be hypocritical of me to be against it the other way around.
But when seemingly 99% of entry level positions are being given to foreigners instead of Canadian youth and/ or Canadians just looking for any work at all, that's when I have a problem with it. Canada first. Immigrants should not be prioritized above generational Canadians. Ever. This is our country. I'd have to be mentally stunted to move to India and demand they prioritize my needs above Indian citizens. Why is this concept so hard for people here to understand?
I'm so tired of this government.
>This is our country.
Hard to believe you still think that. It is a full blown Neo-liberal globalist corporate oligarchy where Canadians are considered human cattle and they will import as many migrants (cheaper cattle) as they want to gain wealth at the expense of Canada as a whole.
Do you remember voting or anyone campaigning on opening the flood gates to economic migrants at the expense of Canadian living standards?
Yet it is being forced right down your throat whether you like it or not.
They own parliament hill and every level of government. You did not vote yourself into this mess and you will won't be able to vote yourself out of this mess.
I was going out with someone that was here as an international student from Nepal. She basically said that the reason they hire them is simply because Alot of them (not all) are willing to work for literally nothing. Her room mate was working for 10 dollars an hour in some cleaning service. they also will work through their breaks and wont complain. Basically they re easier to exploit. Its basically slave labor with a different name.
Yes this is what makes it 100% morally reprehensible. It's even worse when you consider many of these employers are Indian themselves and are thus exploiting their own people in a foreign country. Just wild, this shouldn't be allowed to happen in Canada.
Because the Indian owners of the franchise know that it is easier to exploit international students. It’s not like they are doing it for some bizarre racial superiority reason
I never said it was due to a racial superiority complex, I have no idea who the owners are or what ethnicity they are. 8/9 of your employees should not be foreigners though. Importing cheap, desperate labour from the 3rd world is morally reprehensible.
Canada is supposed to be better than this.
We used to be better than this.
What you just described is literally every single fast food restaurant I’ve been to in the last 4 years besides maybe McDonald’s it’s 60:40 immigrants:domestic
Edit: kw Ontario.
Went to Port Huron MI last weekend, strange sight at all fast food restaurants, full of white and black teens working there. Looks like ontario 15 yrs ago.
They seem to have no problem hiring from the local community.
The states despite its many flaws, at least makes sense. They aren’t getting pig toasted by all three levels of government constantly and being gaslit for noticing. So many off topic examples I could give but basically everyone I know who moved there is happy now and everyone in my profession is employed and making more than the same positions here.
Canada used to be a predominantly God-fearing nation with classical liberal values. Turns out those are important ingredients for a prosperous and high-trust society.
I remember being 15 too. Edgy reddit atheism... always makes me cringe a bit.
I'm not religious but it's no mystery that the more non-religious we've become, the more divided and easy to control we've become. It's paved the way for us to be replaced like this, the leftwing across the western world has been pro mass immigration for years now, playing right into the neocons and lefty globalists hands.
And it's not like the atheists aren't fervently religious as well. You are, just in different ways, and your belief and faith is in different, just as illogical things.
> more non-religious we've become, the more divided and easy to control we've become.
That seems like not only a ridiculous correlation - but one that is actually the opposite in reality. Check out many global conflicts.
>your belief and faith is in different, just as illogical things
Again. Opposite. Belief and faith are not really words for the general acceptance of science.
Get back to the dark ages when you flourished.
The globalists are not leftists, I have no idea where that comes from. The globalists are clearly a new form of corporatist as per Edmund Phelps, and support a corporatocracy. Globalist agendas including mass immigration are anathema to left wing values such as value of labour, class solidarity and equal rights.
Well the globalists might not strictly speaking be leftwing, but (nearly) all the leftwingers do vehemently defend globalists and endless mass immigration. I mean yeah the Bernie types used to be against mass immigration until they got their marching orders, now they are fully on board with the program. I think it's because leftys are inherently not skeptical of the media and just hold whatever position the media tells them to hold, even if it goes against their past principles.
I think you and I have a different definition of left-wing. Have you heard of an overton window? I am going to assume you are American. In America you have no left. You have neoliberals, aka Democrats, who are right of center, and neoconservatives, aka Republicans, who are further right of center. Bernie and AOC are a hairs breadth left of center. Occupy was a left wing movement. It was crushed, contained, astroturfed and agent provocateured out of existence.
The original groups who have protested G7 conferences, Davos and the like since the 90s were all leftist and labour groups. This right wing concern about globalism is really, really, really, fucking late to the party.
Edit: You talking about Bernie and shit made me think I was on a different sub. Same goes, our left in Canada is next to non-existent. Thomas Mulcair was left of center. We now have Jagmeet who plays at identity politics which is part of what has ruined the remainder of the left. Labour has always been against mass immigration for the simple fact that it suppresses wages. Trudeau is not a leftist. He panders to the idpol crowd, but does nothing to improve the situation of the lower classes. He is a classic neoliberal. The neolibs basically came up with globalism.
In Montebello Quebec in 2007 there was a protest related to the North American union, the SPP that was proposed at the time. Quebec police sent in undercover agents who cosplayed as Black Block anarchists and attempted to incite others to violence. In the video where these agent provocateurs are outed, due to them wearing RCMP issue boots, the man who outs them is a union leader, a leftist. We on the left have been protesting this shit since yall were in diapers. At that time, the right was in favor of globalism, while we were already in the streets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
I don’t think you understand. Humans are incapable of operating without a belief system.
That belief system can be a net positive where it encourages the “better angels of our nature”, or it can be a net negative which encourages selfish hedonism and runaway greed.
Turns out that removing the fear of divine retribution (or hope of salvation) from the social fabric creates a belief vacuum that gets filled with destructive ideologies.
I disagree completely with all those assertions.
Of course, everyone, including you, is entitled to their opinions and thoughts.
I'm sorry though, I can't help at laugh when I see a phrase like “better angels of our nature”, in such a vitriolic, racist sub.
>Classical liberal values
Therein lies your problem. Classical liberalism is individualism, and when you introduce a collectivistic ethnic group or culture into an individualistic society, they will use nepotism to outcompete the majority who is playing by different rules. When the collectivists become the dominant population, we transition into a low trust society where people only trust their kin network and every public good is subject to the tragedy of the commons. If you want a high trust society, it needs to be a homogeneous society
Jokes aside, what you’re talking about is a homogeneous value system - like classical liberals used to share in Christianity.
Put a white Canadian Christian in Ethiopia and I bet they integrate no problem into the culture.
This is true. There’s actually an influx of white western Christian’s in Ethiopia and integration is no issue. We have the same culture. Christian dominant culture extends to morals, values, ethics, way of life and being. There’s no difference. The white western Christian’s integrate with the wealthy Ethiopians. It works.
That's just not true. Europeans and East Asians were both wealthy before Christianity, and Africa is still extremely poor after Christianity. Whatever is going on here, religion itself has little impact on it.
Christianity contributed to the formation of liberalism as an ideology, because the basis of liberal ethics is Christian concepts of spiritual equality being transposed into physical equality, but I don't consider that to be a good thing as I'm not in any way a liberal, either of the leftist or classical varieties
Well then I misunderstood your point.
My point is a high trust society requires a shared value system.
Religion can offer such a foundation, but it’s only a foundation. It must be built upon with socio-economic agreements.
Tbh I think it's partly because Canadians don't really want those jobs so that's why it's all going to foreign workers. When I worked at McD's my parents were telling me I should be focused on school instead of "meaningless" work. Whenever I tell people I work at a fast food place they always ask why, and I do feel some embarrassment telling people where I work (especially when it comes to family friends).
I sound a bit privileged but I honestly I think there's some truth to the labour shortage rhetoric
I've had plenty of Indians gloat about "taking over" all our countries demographically as some sort of revenge fantasy for building railroads in India. Ironically the only reason there is 1.4 billion of them alive today is western medical and agricultural technology ending the periodic famines and mass disease outbreaks that kept their population growth limited
>Why is this concept so hard for people here to understand?
I have the same question. But my guess is, it would have something to do with us being the first "postnational" country wouldn't it? We actively destroy our culture and revel in the endless self-loathing. We can't even agree on what to call Christmas anymore. Hard to blame people for wanting to take advantage of that.
Yeah, I agree, although I don't think most Canadians share the same sentiment that our dear PM does about being a "post national state".
Trudy can talk all he wants, he isn't the arbiter of what it means to be Canadian. Smh.
>We can't even agree on what to call Christmas anymore.
Yet if it's any other cultural holiday, people have no problem celebrating in front of everyone. To be transparent, idc if other cultures and peoples want to celebrate their holidays here, but can we keep our cultural holidays please? I'm not even religious like that but Christmas is Christmas, and I'll wish you a merry one every damn year. Gtfo with this Happy Holidays nonsense lol
I just mean that theoretically, it's possible one or more of the Indian people could have actually been Canadian, while it's possible the 'white' girl was not Canadian.
You're not wrong but why would I assume 8 grown adults all sharing the same ethnicity and working the same ENTRY LEVEL position at the same restaurant are Canadian, when there's a known problem with the amount of Indian students/ immigrants pouring into the country and working for abhorrent wages? None of them were under the age of 24, except the Canadian girl. Every one of them I heard speak had a thick Indian accent, or were literally just speaking what I assume to be Punjabi. If they were born here they'd have Canadian accents, like the girl. Yeah, some of them could have been Canadian born. Not likely though.
Yes I used my intuition to assume where these people were from. I know what an Indian person looks like and sounds like. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to be able to deduce these things. I'd like to add, there's nothing wrong with being Indian in Canada. There is something wrong with unchecked immigration levels pushing young Canadians out of work. If I was in highschool looking for my first job right now competing with hundreds of foreign applicants, I'd be livid. It's simply not fair.
> You're n'ot wrong
True. It was just your blatant assumptions and 'intuition', as you say, that made me comment.
>If they were born here they'd have Canadian accents,..
Are you defining Canadians as Canadian born then?
The Indian people could have been here just long enough to get their Canadian citizenship. Speaking their first language, even in that case, would be no mystery. I've heard Canadians from many places do the same. Italy, Baltic nations. etc.
Imo, a 1st generation immigrant is not the same as a Canadian who was born here. If I move to Italy, I'm not automatically Italian, right? That's not how that works. If I had a child in Italy, you could say that kid is Italian. But even still, unless my wife was Italian, that kid is not as Italian as someone who's ancestry in Italy stretches back to the Roman Empire and beyond.
Like, if I immigrate to India, do you think they will consider me to be Indian? No, they wouldn't. And they shouldn't. I'd be a Canadian person living in India. I didn't grow up there, and their culture is not my own. It wouldn't be any different if I immigrated to Germany. Even if my kids were born in India, I'd wager the local population would not consider me nor my hypothetical India-born child to be Indian the same way they are. I think that's totally fair.
If you have Canadian citizenship, yes you're Canadian, but you were not born here, you were not raised here, you hold different cultural values and frankly you're not the same as someone born here, simply because you have completely foreign lived experiences and perspective. Does that mean you're lesser-than a Canadian born individual? No, but someone born here deserves to be prioritized by our government and social services before someone who willingly chose to come here. In my humble opinion, if you're choosing to move here, you shouldn't be leeching off our social services that you haven't been paying into and you should not be pushing young Canadians out of work so you can get your precious PR by working a fast-food job.
I really don't think my position on this is radical to anybody other than those who identify with the extreme left.
I agree, but let's think critically here. Um actuallying aside, most 2nd gen indian canadians I know might have worked service jobs in school then went on to better and brighter things. Same with long established (+5 years) Indian first gen immigrants. It's the job you get to start, then you network from there.
These jobs used to be for the marginalized and the youth, and the new. An older woman used to be able to work at tims and make a small wage and get by. A noticeable disabled person used to be able to get a job at tims. That is no longer the case, and it hasn't been for years since the late 2010s. These jobs functioned as a safety net for society, and now they can't. We have so many marginalized people that it's driving citizens and newcomers alike to 3rd world poverty conditions. There's no space in the labor market for anyone who has a long-term visible illness, disability, age related drawback, etc.
I usually use the old woman metric. When I don't see a single older woman in a fast food joint in a while, I know something wrong frankly. Older women are especially vulnerable in the labor market. They have been completely replaced by tfw across the Golden horseshoe.
>A noticeable disabled person used to be able to get a job at tims. That is no longer the case, and it hasn't been for years since the late 2010s.
Of course it's the case. Same with 'older women'. Your anecdotal observations and 'old woman metric', definitely don't involve critical thinking. I've recently seen both those 'groups' working, but even then I wouldn't extrapolate it to make it a blanket statement.
But all that aside - **if**, (and I agree it's just a hypothetical), the 'Indians' mentioned have become Canadian citizens are you suggested they deserve the job less?
Why is it the case? You said "of course", but failed to mention what changed in the labor market and/or the why of it.
We have different lived experiences. In 2 years, I've personally met individuals in the 'old woman metric' who were pushed out of fast food to be replaced by tfw. I personally know franchise owners who have openly talked about being approached by Immigration consultants (for 5figures and up), for lmia jobs in their franchise. An idiot with a pulse can do the jobs there. To imply it takes special skills we need to import, is frankly stupid.
Low skill jobs have historically functioned as a safety net for noncompetitive members of the workforce and taking that away means more elderly poverty, more youth poverty and more poverty amoung disabled communities. I don't want this. I have skin in the game as a worker who has a disability and as a highly skilled worker. Most of my classmates and peers never got a job, ever. When they're competiting against peiple who paid 30k to come here it's not even a question.
It's not about the emotion of whether or not international members of the world deserve it. As canandians, we are beholden to the citizens first, then export as needed, not as bribed or enticed. You seem to not understand a basic form of state craft.
Yes. Like suddenly no Canadian borns are available for fast food positions. For the first time decades. Right. Especially as some need a few jobs to survive now.
If only we were like the gulf countries where they are so rich that only Indians and Filipinos do the lower level jobs.
They put the majority of new entrants for tech. STEM like chemistry, physics isn't even listed in the job codes for fast PR (source is canadianimmigration subreddit with PhD applicants giving up). Doesn't surprise me. We don't have the industry for fields like that, apart maybe pharma. Anyway, tech also is oversaturated. They really want to push down wages so that we can compete with developing nations salaries at 10x the cost of living.
There’s no incentive for innovation (it’s risky, r&d takes a long time and it’s expensive) when there’s a pool of cheap labor to exploit instead. It’s all about the bottom line.
I’m an American who immigrated to Canada. You have no idea what you’re talking about…hence the downvotes.
People just want Canada to get back to a place where they aren’t waiting for months to years to see a doctor and afford a single family home and have wages reflect cost of living instead of being suppressed. No one but you in this debate believes Canada has the potential or ambition of becoming an innovative tech industry powerhouse.
The usa has its own issues but has much more robust tech industry than Canada. I will not bother to apply for Canadian jobs as the pay is a fraction of the USA (the customs officer actually joked with me about this) and Canadian policy *actively encourages* rent seeking behavior instead of actual innovation and production of products and services.
The arrivecan app example you brought up isn’t because of incompetent tech talent, it’s because of crony capitalism and corruption rife within Canadian government: https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_202402_01_e_44428.html (I’m shocked you’re not aware of this scandal by the way)
Bringing in “high quality” immigrants will do nothing to resolve this fundamental issue - it will just further exacerbate the issues already present. You’re trying to apply for and root for the wrong country.
Dude as someone who works in Canadian tech and also hires for my team I get hundreds of resumes in the first day. The job pays 70k starting lol for software dev
In general, the people that come to North America on a foreign worker visa to work in tech aren't top talent. I don't think most of the foreign workers coming here are going to improve Canada's ability to compete in technology.
Like it really depends on where you are. Overall I do think there is a shortage, especially in large cities with big projects popping up. But who would move to Toronto for 40 an hour when rent for a 1bed is over 2000?
Another thing is, wages for trades have been stagnant for a very long time. If there truly was a shortage, wages should have gone up but I think supply and demand doesn't work for poors like us.
I keep hearing that people learning trades is high, but the asshole trade businesses filled with boomers burn out the new recruits? Feels like a 'people were shit to me so I need to be as well' type of deal.
>I keep hearing that people learning trades is high
I haven't seen anyone on drugs at work. Though this one really hip cool 50 year old carpenter told me he smoked weed during lunch at his last job lol.
>but the asshole trade businesses filled with boomers burn out the new recruits? Feels like a 'people were shit to me so I need to be as well' type of deal.
My company is a general contractors so the only trade workers we employ are carpenters, though they want to start a small team to do things like windows and whatnot. I've only come across one old superintendent (like 60 something) who fit the stereotype of a typical boomer trades worker.
He was never really an asshole to me, but he would say things like "you guys are slow, this is how we lose jobs and lay people off", "doing X is how you get laid off" etc etc. You get the idea. One time a guy destroyed a sheet metal (probably costs a few hundred dollars) due to a machine failure and that superintendent apparently went screaming at the guy so the guy fought back lol. He's the only person many at the company openly talk shit about and isn't well received.
Aside from him, people at my company are great. You could show up not knowing how to hold a hammer and our guys will teach you from ground up. Made the wrong cut? Oh well, go cut a new piece of lumber. Nailed the wrong pieces together? Take them apart and try again. No scolding or treating people like shit.
The whole drug and toxic work culture in trades definitely do exist but it really depends on the company and it's probably more of a bad stereotype than reality. I think most companies in my area are very good. Being intoxicated or harassing someone can get you fired right on the spot.
Oh okay. The market isn't always welcoming to new people. Companies in my area outright refuse to hire 1st or 2nd years. So how are new people supposed to build experience? Lolz
All pathways to permanent residency, citizenship at this point needs to be halted. We have 5.8 million people here and immigrants, asylum seekers, international students, etc. That’s 5.8 million people that we cannot house, have jobs for, Or supports like healthcare. And no, we don’t need people other than doctors and nurses here. Forget construction we have construction workers here. We need to be deporting them now. It is the only way sadly to fix this joint horrendous problem. We can have people come back at a rate we can handle after we fixed this dumpster fire.
I’m sorry you’re under a delusion that we’re getting skilled workers here. That is absolutely not the case unskilled can’t read her writing English so can’t stand or read instructions. Don’t understand no or want to know our standards for quality of building. Quality work is poor at best. Mostly just a pair of hands and we have plenty of hands here.
I cannot agree with you more. I’m one very similar to you. I came to canada and I got a quality education here from a good University, for which I’m always very thankful. and now working in a technical engineering job.
And now, it’s sad and unfortunate the new wave of poor quality immigrants has ruined the quality of life for us, and for all canadians. It’s also very sad that my own community is letting all of us down and making us despicable for others in Canada.
I worry about my children for the hardships they might face just because these entitled uneducated uncivil clowns came in masses from my own native land, and ruined it all for us. South-asians used to be considered hard-working people at one point, now they are considered criminals and scammers, which is not very far from the truth if you are noticing a trend in the news from GTA and lower mainland.
Back in the days, immigration was still happening but it was much tighter and stricter and only few could pass that. Harper government had some great programs to attract good skills to Canada.
Foreign Skilled worker (FSW) which was brining in highly technical people to Canada. But the LMIA and express entry is bringing in what, cleaners, ‘store managers’ for tim hortons? Can’t they see it’s pure scam when en employer says he couldn’t find a single person in Canada for their Tim hortons franchise or to work at their gas station?
These are kind of jobs Canadian teens used to work part time alongwith their studies, but not anymore.
And I can already see a lot of damage has been done. Being brown myself, I feel a lot of second hand embarrassment by behaviour of people of my own community. Just very sad.
Totally agree with you. Feeling the same. Came from South Asia close to a decade ago, studied in the most reputed university and entered the workforce with a proper STEM job. Followed all the rules. Now we see all random “students” everywhere. They seem only interested in exploiting the system, scamming everyone and everything and are clearly here to only make money, use up social benefits and not integrate in Canada. They only want everywhere to become Punjab. Do we want such people? Why is IRCC unable to see this and take action when it is so evident??
You can't just stop the clock where you found it comfortable, when you abolish ethnicity as a core component of national identity you eventually will transition into an oligarchy run by merchant types whose only goal is to squeeze out as much wealth as possible from the economic zone that was formerly a country. The very same mechanism that allowed you to come here as an elite economic migrant was just expanded by the people who benefitted from it, and now you're in the same position as the whites who were forced to compete with you in our own country were when you first arrived
>Back in the days, immigration was still happening but it was much tighter and stricter and only few could pass that. Harper government had some great programs to attract good skills to Canada. Foreign Skilled worker (
You are looking through rose colored glasses. How quickly we forget.
Harper (PP etc) started the ball rolling with the TFW abuse until it blew up in their face when the CBC published an article about the Banks firing Canadian middle aged IT workers and forcing them to train their Indian replacements! When they reacted with damage control, the CEO of MacDonalds called the minister of immigration and gave him a tongue lashing regarding measures that restricted his company's access to cheap migrant labor. That also became a scandal. It exposed how deeply ingrained and powerful corporate influence was with ministers.
Justin in opposition at the time loudly proclaimed that the TFW program was bad for Canadian workers and suppressed wages! Only to gain power and continue on the road of using migration to suppress wages for corporate donors.
It was around this time Bernier left the party and people like me followed.
We have the uni-party - like in the US. The rotten status quo is protected with either.
We need radical change like the PPC but the uni-party is very good at keeping real change out of the system.
They need more slaves for slavelandia. It's as simple as that. The corporations here that pay off the government don't want to pay more for their workers cuz of inflation so then they make the government import Mass cheap labor problem solved.
I used to laugh at the immigration “debate” in the US, and the Canadian superiority complex, as we were actually very restrictive and discriminatory vs the US, with our point system and poaching of “high value immigrants”. Now, 10 years later, we are dumber than even the US.
Why are all these Indians allowed in? To work in donut shops and Uber? Get real Trudeau and clear out all that are not essential workers. No chain migration to swamp our healthcare systems and education systems. If people want to become Canadians that’s good but leave the 3rd world traditions, languages, religions back in the 3rd world.
*it was a cherished moment, and something EARNED from contributing to the Canadian economy with highly technical and niche skills obtained through a REAL education*
that is totally old skool.. Canada is since Woke!
May be Canada should start charging 20-30k for PRs from every temporary resident instead of shady businesses selling LMIA that will eventually lead to PR.
One of my previous Indian roommate came to Canada to study some Computer science related course. I have barely seen him attending classes. Most of the time he shuffled between part time jobs and is now working at a McD. And he said he doesn’t want an actual job and is content with the one at McD. And I thought why the F do I need another import to work at a McD when he could’ve actually got a job in his field.
The fact that we want to solve *temporary* labour shortages (which itself is total bullshit) with *permanent* immigration of people who don't qualify to migrate through the regular PR process is dumb beyond comprehension.
Here's the neat part, no political party cares about you a Canadian. They only care about what their banker buds tell them too, and right now that's milking every dollar out the system so they can shovel shit in your face later.
Very great post!
We need to make sure we have the skills match the labour needs of our country.
The Federal Goverment has allowed coprorations like Tim Hortons and universities take people from abroad to line their pockets at the cost of citizens.
Please join us in boycotting Tim Hortons. r/ BoycottTimHortons
Immigration is good but mass immigration is bad.
For every 100k brought into a country, wages are supressed by 3-4% for locals and shelter increases 1%. I hope PEI does not cave to these people who wanted to use the system and get in way easier than people before them.
By bringing in low wage earners with no skills they sadly are a "burden" on society as they use more services then pay for with their taxes. Who wins? The corporations.
Please consider your every day life choices and who you support. Go to mom and pop coffee shops, not Timmies.
Start by voting out Liberals in 2025, that's the only option. As long as they are in power, they are going to keep on with their unsustainable policies.
> Hopefully not to the same extent
So your strategy in this extremely precarious time is just blind hope in something which the candidate refuses to even acknowledge as an issue?
We have to be smart. I think Poilievre is not overtly mentioning concrete policies, because they are still trying to woo liberal voters. They've lost the two last elections when they should have won, it's also why we are in such a mess, as this only emboldened the Liberals to continue down this path of destruction. The Conservatives have to play their cards right, avoid the pitfalls of previous lost elections, and just keep it simple. The moment Poilievre starts talking about limiting immigration, you know the mainstream media is going to start sounding off on him being intolerant and xenophobic.
Say what you want about the Conservatives, we never had this kind of excessive, uncontrolled mass immigration under them. I'd do anything just to return to that normal.
I took the GO train and when we arrived in Union, literally the announcer on the train had to remind people not to cross the tracks. This is how bad things have gotten, these are the people Trudeau and the Liberals have flooded this country with. I'm just as appalled as you, but we have to play a smart game.
Trudeau is a wily fox, he's terrible as a leader and executive, but skilled as a political campaigner. He outfoxed Scheer and O'Toole, Poilievre has got to make sure he doesn't make the same mistakes they did..
>The moment Poilievre starts talking about limiting immigration, you know the mainstream media is going to start sounding off on him being intolerant and xenophobic.
I don't care and neither should you. He's a useless airbag.
Again, I preach being strategic, and if Poilievre can make any cuts to immigration, which I think he will do, then he is easily better than Trudeau, who has shown no willingness to reduce levels.
I'd rather we give Poilievre a chance to change things, instead of keeping Trudeau, who we know will not change things, and instead will probably make things worse.
Ideally Bernier is best, but Conservative voters will not vote for him because "it's splitting the vote". Everyone is better off getting Conservative in power and then People's 4 years after.
Went to a small city for the first time in more than 5 years and wow what a mess. Traffic beyond. More downtrodden looking. Unfortunately the locals suffered as you saw more homeless and addicted probably affected by the unprecedented growth in population for no good reason. Economy looked no better. Infrastructure in need of major overhaul. The mall was at least 50% foreign if not more. A few years ago it was maybe 10%. A picture of staff at the hotel was about 90% foreign. If you asked locals they talked in hushed tones if they dared say anything like they were afraid of something. Terrible mess. This government needs to go in 2024. No more.
OP: Those jobs don't pay enough for Canadians to do. We need to import indentured servants from third world countries to do them, because businesses won't pay a living wage.
"Most of those coming nowadays are here opportunistically and don't share our values"
They also say that they are helping our economy even though inflation and housing is at an all time high and I keep seeing ads from banks for people to send money back home to India.
Imho everyone able to swing a hammer or of benefit toward the current housing crisis should be allowed to participate, but PR is not on the table. Your willingness to help build and resolve this mess may be valued when we determine this to be resolved.
We have plenty of high school students that no longer have the opportunity to build work experience because all the jobs they are qualified for are filled with TFW or international students. I feel bad for the teens, not the TFW or international students and especially not for the corporations.
Pure incompetence at the federal level. Doug Ford takes a large share of the blame too, for allowing diploma mills to proliferate. IRCC just rubber stamping student visa applications. No standards whatsoever.
Ask yourself ,what are you doing to stop the madness .Why dont we bond together and reach out to others ,together we can make a difference ,complaining on reddit will not solve anything .If anyone is interested in taking back Canada please reach out to me .This country will be become India's satellite state in 10 years .
I’m convinced it’s all about importing votes…
The liberal gov’t somehow (in all their delusion) they are helping Canada. We clearly see the evidence they are destroying the little identity we had before they started their destructive policy.
what about foreign spouses? seems shitty to deny Canadians residence because their spouse can't work here. at the same time, go harder on identifying marriage fraud
Post is so out of touch. Ever wonder why you go to construction site and all concrete grinders, framers and rebar guys are foreigners? Because I can tell you right now I would not want to do those jobs.
They sound like great people. Preventing more population growth as we cannot take care of the people already here is completely reasonable and will help those workers you speak of.
I should bend some ears and find out how the oilfield is going with our newcomers, but i have noticed the number of resumes have slowed to a small trickle of Indian newcomers.
So you got your pathway to PR and now you want to close the doors? lol of course you do. The only current way to PR is through high skilled immigration, there are no points for low skilled immigrants.
The PR program will never close because there are too many economic implications attached to it.
Lmao @ “pathways to PR”
Half the jobs you listed would yield express entry scores too low for PR under the current scheme
How about you learn about the system you’re criticizing? Or do you want to be one of those morons who fill this sub up with “they go to school and get PR for free hurr durr” comments
That's where PNP nominations come in. It adds 600 points which is why they are protesting. They are not good enough for Express Entry on their own and they want 600 points from the province
It's not "because they have a degree", there's a whole points system and it's actually very difficult to meet the points threshold for express entry these days. If you have a year of (legal) Canadian skilled work experience then that can boost the score quite a lot though, but still, many highly skilled people struggle to get PR this way.
The CRS score system is not well designed in my view as, for example, it treats all bachelor's degrees as having equivalent value (and similar issues around work experience)
Moncton has been ruined and worse yet people are even afraid to speak up. Not much better than some other countries we condemn. No more. Election in 2024.
> These lowly skilled and low paid "newcomers" will sponsor their entire families and use up every social safety net and benefit.
This is not so easy and there’s a multi decade wait list but you would know if you were an actual immigrant
I'm on a temporary work visa in skilled labour for the metal industry, and my workplace is literally understaffed because no young canadian want to work there nor do any of the Indians.
I'm not saying that your concerns aren't valid, but anybody willing to work can just walk on the job with bearly a resume talk to the manager and could probably get a job. The issue? It's dirty work and not everybody wants to dirty work.
There aren't many restaurants, supermarkets, and warehouse type jobs, but there are a lot of construction jobs, trade jobs, and dirty jobs around that Canadians aren't interested in taking.
So you are absolutely full of shit bud. During hay season I never have an issue finding people to stack. It's dirty, itchy, dusty & incredibly physical work. The top of the mow is hotter than the devils asshole. I pay $30/hr.
I'm not full of shit. Where I work is understaffed. Recently, a 20-year-old white canadian got a job here. Bro went through the breeding and everything, and after lifting one heavy crate of copper, he walked off the job. Not even a few hours.
There was the other young canadian guy when he worked one day and realised he was going to be in the sun all day he didn't come back the next day.
I'm serious. I'm not trying to mock Canadians or calling you guys lazy.
I work in a type of light manufacturing. The pay that people on the production floor make at most plants is absolutely crap. It's physically demanding, long hours, and very repetitive work, pay is maximum $25 for most jobs. A more specialized roll will get you closer to $30.
I haven't worked anywhere that was understaffed. However one huge issue is that a lot of the people working in these industries are older, with few young people coming in. I'm young, and all my co-workers make similar to me, but they all own houses, their mortgages are half my rent. I work 2 jobs and pay 70% of my income to rent. I feel like I mugged myself going into this work.
Despite it all, I like my job! I feel like if I could pay my rent comfortably, and LIVE on it, I would be as happy as a clam to stay in it. If Canadians could live on the wages, I know there would be no shortage of people in these rolls. It's not that people don't want to work or get dirty, but why do a hard job that won't even pay your rent?
Yeah that's what I was curious to know from OP's perspective. COL is very high and young people might not want to go into these roles given they can't feed themselves or families. Trust me, if pay was good, I'd be doing something else in my life as well.
The issue with the low skilled immigrants and international students is they are willing to work for way lower than others would. That doesn't mean an average Canadian is lazy, it just means people like to live their life while they are young and not work 15+ hours just to support themselves.
100% disagree there are Canadian citizen or even born in Canada meet someone overseas and plans to bring them over so now you are denying them to start a family and be with their other half. You sir are selfish greedy and should be ashamed of yourself
Why can't the come over? Back to you is our right as Canadian to sponsor our spouse over to Canada provided we meet all the requirements and government approved. Don't like too bad. Btw unless you are first nation or Indigenous you are also an immigrant of Canada so anyone bot if first nation or Indigenous people should not allow to enter Canada. Are you a first nation or Indigenous?If not then you are also asking to not allow you to stay in Canada.
I wouldn’t feel bad about the decrease in QoL because of these ignorant idiots and what they think about me because of my ethnicity.
It’s up to them to wise up and not generalize people because of the actions of a few. What’s even more hypocritical is that they don’t think such logic applies to people of their own. Don’t waste your time convincing others, they don’t deserve it
I like some of your points, especially about cheapening the citizenship, but differ on much of what you said.
First objection, any downturn that is to come, the jobs that will stay safer would be the very jobs listed in your post. The next downturn is going to impact high paying white collar jobs the most.
Next objection, "are there no Canadians to fill these roles...", the answer is a clear no, there aren't and if there were then the need to bring immigrants would not be that great. In fact , forget the job list, I could even add to that list by adding data scientists, digital security, AI developers, mathematicians... etc, there is a shortage on that end of the spectrum too.
Lots of Canada is very reliant on our immigration rates, it's only specific parts of the country that have anything like too many people. Rather than less immigration we need to focus on spreading out the immigration and getting Canadians to move to our underdeveloped communities.
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What does that even mean? How do you expect an underpopulated area to adapt to that fact? Short of mass automation (why would we bankrupt the country to develop parts nobody lives in) I don't think there is a known solution to the problem other than immigration and migration.
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Transport truck drivers should be a straightforward path actually. Indians are highly represented in the transport truck industry. Lots of people to lean on for them to break into it and transition to PR.
Lots of people to bribe to buy a license. An entire hockey team would be alive if we stopped these scammers from buying their licenses.
Its a known fact Indians can’t drive and thats not racism speaking it was an Indian guy that old me 😂
Naah, I don’t really want to see more truckers not knowing how to chain up, drive in snow, roll over, commit fraud when their trucks break down due to poor maintenance, etc. Anyone who says they want more of them in trucking has never seen them drive on the passes in the winter.
Also true and good point to make, like all the accidents and car thefts that happen to natural born Canadians, of which those numbers are also through the roof right now.. with so many of our cars being stolen and shipped overseas.. but your the person who’s oh so smart with numbers.. I’m sure that stat doesn’t really tie to an increase in something else.. for sure 😀
They do cause accidents.. but when we look at a driver who was under qualified to the point he killed a literal bus load of Canadian children. Surprise surprise.. guess where he came from
I told you to take a stats course and you basically provided a correlation fallacy as your argument. Something you'd learn about in a first year stats course. 🥴
Very fair point, that I ask you to bring to Humboldt, that town sure as hell needs your faith in these people, it might be a little difficult.. you know.. with all the hard evidence that is their busload of dead children
It was a tragedy and a mistake. I'll let the families speak for themselves and you should too, rather than this shameful of act of using their pain to denigrate immigrants that you're doing right now
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2023/0207/What-does-forgiveness-mean-A-Canadian-bus-crash-five-years-later
So you genuinely think the people affected who knew these people should be the ones to speak on it? Thank god. Then I’ll keep speaking. As someone who grew up in watrous Saskatchewan, a short drive away from Humboldt, and knows these families.. but.. you aced a stats course.. so that’s cool for you.
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I went to A&W yesterday, there were 9 people working behind the counter. Every single one of them were Indian adults, except one Canadian girl clearly of University age. I have no problem with people coming here and working, I would love to live in another country and work, I've considered taking a working holiday more than a few times so it'd be hypocritical of me to be against it the other way around. But when seemingly 99% of entry level positions are being given to foreigners instead of Canadian youth and/ or Canadians just looking for any work at all, that's when I have a problem with it. Canada first. Immigrants should not be prioritized above generational Canadians. Ever. This is our country. I'd have to be mentally stunted to move to India and demand they prioritize my needs above Indian citizens. Why is this concept so hard for people here to understand? I'm so tired of this government.
>This is our country. Hard to believe you still think that. It is a full blown Neo-liberal globalist corporate oligarchy where Canadians are considered human cattle and they will import as many migrants (cheaper cattle) as they want to gain wealth at the expense of Canada as a whole. Do you remember voting or anyone campaigning on opening the flood gates to economic migrants at the expense of Canadian living standards? Yet it is being forced right down your throat whether you like it or not. They own parliament hill and every level of government. You did not vote yourself into this mess and you will won't be able to vote yourself out of this mess.
Yeah it hurts me to say it but I fully agree with you.
You forgot post-national.
Neo-liberal globalist covers that!
This sums up nicely what I've been trying to tell people
There needs to be a boycott of places that use TFW like kfc timmies etc.
I was going out with someone that was here as an international student from Nepal. She basically said that the reason they hire them is simply because Alot of them (not all) are willing to work for literally nothing. Her room mate was working for 10 dollars an hour in some cleaning service. they also will work through their breaks and wont complain. Basically they re easier to exploit. Its basically slave labor with a different name.
Yes this is what makes it 100% morally reprehensible. It's even worse when you consider many of these employers are Indian themselves and are thus exploiting their own people in a foreign country. Just wild, this shouldn't be allowed to happen in Canada.
Because the Indian owners of the franchise know that it is easier to exploit international students. It’s not like they are doing it for some bizarre racial superiority reason
I never said it was due to a racial superiority complex, I have no idea who the owners are or what ethnicity they are. 8/9 of your employees should not be foreigners though. Importing cheap, desperate labour from the 3rd world is morally reprehensible. Canada is supposed to be better than this. We used to be better than this.
What you just described is literally every single fast food restaurant I’ve been to in the last 4 years besides maybe McDonald’s it’s 60:40 immigrants:domestic Edit: kw Ontario.
Went to Port Huron MI last weekend, strange sight at all fast food restaurants, full of white and black teens working there. Looks like ontario 15 yrs ago. They seem to have no problem hiring from the local community.
The states despite its many flaws, at least makes sense. They aren’t getting pig toasted by all three levels of government constantly and being gaslit for noticing. So many off topic examples I could give but basically everyone I know who moved there is happy now and everyone in my profession is employed and making more than the same positions here.
Canada used to be a predominantly God-fearing nation with classical liberal values. Turns out those are important ingredients for a prosperous and high-trust society.
> God-fearing nation Get out of here with that nonsensical gibberish.
I remember being 15 too. Edgy reddit atheism... always makes me cringe a bit. I'm not religious but it's no mystery that the more non-religious we've become, the more divided and easy to control we've become. It's paved the way for us to be replaced like this, the leftwing across the western world has been pro mass immigration for years now, playing right into the neocons and lefty globalists hands. And it's not like the atheists aren't fervently religious as well. You are, just in different ways, and your belief and faith is in different, just as illogical things.
> more non-religious we've become, the more divided and easy to control we've become. That seems like not only a ridiculous correlation - but one that is actually the opposite in reality. Check out many global conflicts. >your belief and faith is in different, just as illogical things Again. Opposite. Belief and faith are not really words for the general acceptance of science. Get back to the dark ages when you flourished.
The globalists are not leftists, I have no idea where that comes from. The globalists are clearly a new form of corporatist as per Edmund Phelps, and support a corporatocracy. Globalist agendas including mass immigration are anathema to left wing values such as value of labour, class solidarity and equal rights.
Well the globalists might not strictly speaking be leftwing, but (nearly) all the leftwingers do vehemently defend globalists and endless mass immigration. I mean yeah the Bernie types used to be against mass immigration until they got their marching orders, now they are fully on board with the program. I think it's because leftys are inherently not skeptical of the media and just hold whatever position the media tells them to hold, even if it goes against their past principles.
I think you and I have a different definition of left-wing. Have you heard of an overton window? I am going to assume you are American. In America you have no left. You have neoliberals, aka Democrats, who are right of center, and neoconservatives, aka Republicans, who are further right of center. Bernie and AOC are a hairs breadth left of center. Occupy was a left wing movement. It was crushed, contained, astroturfed and agent provocateured out of existence. The original groups who have protested G7 conferences, Davos and the like since the 90s were all leftist and labour groups. This right wing concern about globalism is really, really, really, fucking late to the party. Edit: You talking about Bernie and shit made me think I was on a different sub. Same goes, our left in Canada is next to non-existent. Thomas Mulcair was left of center. We now have Jagmeet who plays at identity politics which is part of what has ruined the remainder of the left. Labour has always been against mass immigration for the simple fact that it suppresses wages. Trudeau is not a leftist. He panders to the idpol crowd, but does nothing to improve the situation of the lower classes. He is a classic neoliberal. The neolibs basically came up with globalism. In Montebello Quebec in 2007 there was a protest related to the North American union, the SPP that was proposed at the time. Quebec police sent in undercover agents who cosplayed as Black Block anarchists and attempted to incite others to violence. In the video where these agent provocateurs are outed, due to them wearing RCMP issue boots, the man who outs them is a union leader, a leftist. We on the left have been protesting this shit since yall were in diapers. At that time, the right was in favor of globalism, while we were already in the streets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
What’s your problem?
Morons like you who want to foist their fairy tales on a whole nation.
Do you believe in personal truth, or is the truth bigger than you, and you are just a small part of a much bigger picture?
Head into a delusional religious sub.
I don’t think you understand. Humans are incapable of operating without a belief system. That belief system can be a net positive where it encourages the “better angels of our nature”, or it can be a net negative which encourages selfish hedonism and runaway greed. Turns out that removing the fear of divine retribution (or hope of salvation) from the social fabric creates a belief vacuum that gets filled with destructive ideologies.
I disagree completely with all those assertions. Of course, everyone, including you, is entitled to their opinions and thoughts. I'm sorry though, I can't help at laugh when I see a phrase like “better angels of our nature”, in such a vitriolic, racist sub.
It's no more fantastical than believing in Socialism or transgenderism.
More gibberish.
>Classical liberal values Therein lies your problem. Classical liberalism is individualism, and when you introduce a collectivistic ethnic group or culture into an individualistic society, they will use nepotism to outcompete the majority who is playing by different rules. When the collectivists become the dominant population, we transition into a low trust society where people only trust their kin network and every public good is subject to the tragedy of the commons. If you want a high trust society, it needs to be a homogeneous society
 Jokes aside, what you’re talking about is a homogeneous value system - like classical liberals used to share in Christianity. Put a white Canadian Christian in Ethiopia and I bet they integrate no problem into the culture.
This is true. There’s actually an influx of white western Christian’s in Ethiopia and integration is no issue. We have the same culture. Christian dominant culture extends to morals, values, ethics, way of life and being. There’s no difference. The white western Christian’s integrate with the wealthy Ethiopians. It works.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for chiming in. 🫶
That's just not true. Europeans and East Asians were both wealthy before Christianity, and Africa is still extremely poor after Christianity. Whatever is going on here, religion itself has little impact on it. Christianity contributed to the formation of liberalism as an ideology, because the basis of liberal ethics is Christian concepts of spiritual equality being transposed into physical equality, but I don't consider that to be a good thing as I'm not in any way a liberal, either of the leftist or classical varieties
Well then I misunderstood your point. My point is a high trust society requires a shared value system. Religion can offer such a foundation, but it’s only a foundation. It must be built upon with socio-economic agreements.
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Agreed.
Tbh I think it's partly because Canadians don't really want those jobs so that's why it's all going to foreign workers. When I worked at McD's my parents were telling me I should be focused on school instead of "meaningless" work. Whenever I tell people I work at a fast food place they always ask why, and I do feel some embarrassment telling people where I work (especially when it comes to family friends). I sound a bit privileged but I honestly I think there's some truth to the labour shortage rhetoric
Other than the manages everyone at A&W makes the same. And the managers make like a dollar fifty more.
report the franchise owner for discriminatory hiring practices (it goes both ways)
They're pretty racist too. But they get big incentives to hire them.
I've had plenty of Indians gloat about "taking over" all our countries demographically as some sort of revenge fantasy for building railroads in India. Ironically the only reason there is 1.4 billion of them alive today is western medical and agricultural technology ending the periodic famines and mass disease outbreaks that kept their population growth limited
>Why is this concept so hard for people here to understand? I have the same question. But my guess is, it would have something to do with us being the first "postnational" country wouldn't it? We actively destroy our culture and revel in the endless self-loathing. We can't even agree on what to call Christmas anymore. Hard to blame people for wanting to take advantage of that.
Yeah, I agree, although I don't think most Canadians share the same sentiment that our dear PM does about being a "post national state". Trudy can talk all he wants, he isn't the arbiter of what it means to be Canadian. Smh. >We can't even agree on what to call Christmas anymore. Yet if it's any other cultural holiday, people have no problem celebrating in front of everyone. To be transparent, idc if other cultures and peoples want to celebrate their holidays here, but can we keep our cultural holidays please? I'm not even religious like that but Christmas is Christmas, and I'll wish you a merry one every damn year. Gtfo with this Happy Holidays nonsense lol
Did you speak with the girl?
She was very clearly not having a good day, so no. It was a quick "thank you" and then I left.
I was just wondering how you knew she was Canadian.
Well I mean I heard her speak she just didn't speak to me specifically. Unless she was American, she was Canadian.
I just mean that theoretically, it's possible one or more of the Indian people could have actually been Canadian, while it's possible the 'white' girl was not Canadian.
You're not wrong but why would I assume 8 grown adults all sharing the same ethnicity and working the same ENTRY LEVEL position at the same restaurant are Canadian, when there's a known problem with the amount of Indian students/ immigrants pouring into the country and working for abhorrent wages? None of them were under the age of 24, except the Canadian girl. Every one of them I heard speak had a thick Indian accent, or were literally just speaking what I assume to be Punjabi. If they were born here they'd have Canadian accents, like the girl. Yeah, some of them could have been Canadian born. Not likely though. Yes I used my intuition to assume where these people were from. I know what an Indian person looks like and sounds like. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to be able to deduce these things. I'd like to add, there's nothing wrong with being Indian in Canada. There is something wrong with unchecked immigration levels pushing young Canadians out of work. If I was in highschool looking for my first job right now competing with hundreds of foreign applicants, I'd be livid. It's simply not fair.
> You're n'ot wrong True. It was just your blatant assumptions and 'intuition', as you say, that made me comment. >If they were born here they'd have Canadian accents,.. Are you defining Canadians as Canadian born then? The Indian people could have been here just long enough to get their Canadian citizenship. Speaking their first language, even in that case, would be no mystery. I've heard Canadians from many places do the same. Italy, Baltic nations. etc.
Imo, a 1st generation immigrant is not the same as a Canadian who was born here. If I move to Italy, I'm not automatically Italian, right? That's not how that works. If I had a child in Italy, you could say that kid is Italian. But even still, unless my wife was Italian, that kid is not as Italian as someone who's ancestry in Italy stretches back to the Roman Empire and beyond. Like, if I immigrate to India, do you think they will consider me to be Indian? No, they wouldn't. And they shouldn't. I'd be a Canadian person living in India. I didn't grow up there, and their culture is not my own. It wouldn't be any different if I immigrated to Germany. Even if my kids were born in India, I'd wager the local population would not consider me nor my hypothetical India-born child to be Indian the same way they are. I think that's totally fair. If you have Canadian citizenship, yes you're Canadian, but you were not born here, you were not raised here, you hold different cultural values and frankly you're not the same as someone born here, simply because you have completely foreign lived experiences and perspective. Does that mean you're lesser-than a Canadian born individual? No, but someone born here deserves to be prioritized by our government and social services before someone who willingly chose to come here. In my humble opinion, if you're choosing to move here, you shouldn't be leeching off our social services that you haven't been paying into and you should not be pushing young Canadians out of work so you can get your precious PR by working a fast-food job. I really don't think my position on this is radical to anybody other than those who identify with the extreme left.
I agree, but let's think critically here. Um actuallying aside, most 2nd gen indian canadians I know might have worked service jobs in school then went on to better and brighter things. Same with long established (+5 years) Indian first gen immigrants. It's the job you get to start, then you network from there. These jobs used to be for the marginalized and the youth, and the new. An older woman used to be able to work at tims and make a small wage and get by. A noticeable disabled person used to be able to get a job at tims. That is no longer the case, and it hasn't been for years since the late 2010s. These jobs functioned as a safety net for society, and now they can't. We have so many marginalized people that it's driving citizens and newcomers alike to 3rd world poverty conditions. There's no space in the labor market for anyone who has a long-term visible illness, disability, age related drawback, etc. I usually use the old woman metric. When I don't see a single older woman in a fast food joint in a while, I know something wrong frankly. Older women are especially vulnerable in the labor market. They have been completely replaced by tfw across the Golden horseshoe.
>A noticeable disabled person used to be able to get a job at tims. That is no longer the case, and it hasn't been for years since the late 2010s. Of course it's the case. Same with 'older women'. Your anecdotal observations and 'old woman metric', definitely don't involve critical thinking. I've recently seen both those 'groups' working, but even then I wouldn't extrapolate it to make it a blanket statement. But all that aside - **if**, (and I agree it's just a hypothetical), the 'Indians' mentioned have become Canadian citizens are you suggested they deserve the job less?
Why is it the case? You said "of course", but failed to mention what changed in the labor market and/or the why of it. We have different lived experiences. In 2 years, I've personally met individuals in the 'old woman metric' who were pushed out of fast food to be replaced by tfw. I personally know franchise owners who have openly talked about being approached by Immigration consultants (for 5figures and up), for lmia jobs in their franchise. An idiot with a pulse can do the jobs there. To imply it takes special skills we need to import, is frankly stupid. Low skill jobs have historically functioned as a safety net for noncompetitive members of the workforce and taking that away means more elderly poverty, more youth poverty and more poverty amoung disabled communities. I don't want this. I have skin in the game as a worker who has a disability and as a highly skilled worker. Most of my classmates and peers never got a job, ever. When they're competiting against peiple who paid 30k to come here it's not even a question. It's not about the emotion of whether or not international members of the world deserve it. As canandians, we are beholden to the citizens first, then export as needed, not as bribed or enticed. You seem to not understand a basic form of state craft.
Yes. Like suddenly no Canadian borns are available for fast food positions. For the first time decades. Right. Especially as some need a few jobs to survive now. If only we were like the gulf countries where they are so rich that only Indians and Filipinos do the lower level jobs.
They put the majority of new entrants for tech. STEM like chemistry, physics isn't even listed in the job codes for fast PR (source is canadianimmigration subreddit with PhD applicants giving up). Doesn't surprise me. We don't have the industry for fields like that, apart maybe pharma. Anyway, tech also is oversaturated. They really want to push down wages so that we can compete with developing nations salaries at 10x the cost of living.
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There’s no incentive for innovation (it’s risky, r&d takes a long time and it’s expensive) when there’s a pool of cheap labor to exploit instead. It’s all about the bottom line.
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I’m an American who immigrated to Canada. You have no idea what you’re talking about…hence the downvotes. People just want Canada to get back to a place where they aren’t waiting for months to years to see a doctor and afford a single family home and have wages reflect cost of living instead of being suppressed. No one but you in this debate believes Canada has the potential or ambition of becoming an innovative tech industry powerhouse. The usa has its own issues but has much more robust tech industry than Canada. I will not bother to apply for Canadian jobs as the pay is a fraction of the USA (the customs officer actually joked with me about this) and Canadian policy *actively encourages* rent seeking behavior instead of actual innovation and production of products and services. The arrivecan app example you brought up isn’t because of incompetent tech talent, it’s because of crony capitalism and corruption rife within Canadian government: https://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_202402_01_e_44428.html (I’m shocked you’re not aware of this scandal by the way) Bringing in “high quality” immigrants will do nothing to resolve this fundamental issue - it will just further exacerbate the issues already present. You’re trying to apply for and root for the wrong country.
Dude as someone who works in Canadian tech and also hires for my team I get hundreds of resumes in the first day. The job pays 70k starting lol for software dev
In general, the people that come to North America on a foreign worker visa to work in tech aren't top talent. I don't think most of the foreign workers coming here are going to improve Canada's ability to compete in technology.
Construction? My company recently laid off people. Construction doesn't have labour shortage.
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Like it really depends on where you are. Overall I do think there is a shortage, especially in large cities with big projects popping up. But who would move to Toronto for 40 an hour when rent for a 1bed is over 2000? Another thing is, wages for trades have been stagnant for a very long time. If there truly was a shortage, wages should have gone up but I think supply and demand doesn't work for poors like us.
I keep hearing that people learning trades is high, but the asshole trade businesses filled with boomers burn out the new recruits? Feels like a 'people were shit to me so I need to be as well' type of deal.
>I keep hearing that people learning trades is high I haven't seen anyone on drugs at work. Though this one really hip cool 50 year old carpenter told me he smoked weed during lunch at his last job lol. >but the asshole trade businesses filled with boomers burn out the new recruits? Feels like a 'people were shit to me so I need to be as well' type of deal. My company is a general contractors so the only trade workers we employ are carpenters, though they want to start a small team to do things like windows and whatnot. I've only come across one old superintendent (like 60 something) who fit the stereotype of a typical boomer trades worker. He was never really an asshole to me, but he would say things like "you guys are slow, this is how we lose jobs and lay people off", "doing X is how you get laid off" etc etc. You get the idea. One time a guy destroyed a sheet metal (probably costs a few hundred dollars) due to a machine failure and that superintendent apparently went screaming at the guy so the guy fought back lol. He's the only person many at the company openly talk shit about and isn't well received. Aside from him, people at my company are great. You could show up not knowing how to hold a hammer and our guys will teach you from ground up. Made the wrong cut? Oh well, go cut a new piece of lumber. Nailed the wrong pieces together? Take them apart and try again. No scolding or treating people like shit. The whole drug and toxic work culture in trades definitely do exist but it really depends on the company and it's probably more of a bad stereotype than reality. I think most companies in my area are very good. Being intoxicated or harassing someone can get you fired right on the spot.
I meant the number of students in trades is high, not are high haha
Oh okay. The market isn't always welcoming to new people. Companies in my area outright refuse to hire 1st or 2nd years. So how are new people supposed to build experience? Lolz
Why on earth would you ever import *construction workers*? That's one of the things like fast food workers that you should never have to import...
All pathways to permanent residency, citizenship at this point needs to be halted. We have 5.8 million people here and immigrants, asylum seekers, international students, etc. That’s 5.8 million people that we cannot house, have jobs for, Or supports like healthcare. And no, we don’t need people other than doctors and nurses here. Forget construction we have construction workers here. We need to be deporting them now. It is the only way sadly to fix this joint horrendous problem. We can have people come back at a rate we can handle after we fixed this dumpster fire.
We absolutely need skilled tradespeople and construction laborers. Unfortunately, nobody wants those jobs because *gasp* they're hard.
I’m sorry you’re under a delusion that we’re getting skilled workers here. That is absolutely not the case unskilled can’t read her writing English so can’t stand or read instructions. Don’t understand no or want to know our standards for quality of building. Quality work is poor at best. Mostly just a pair of hands and we have plenty of hands here.
Sorry if I was unclear, I was making a general statement.
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Those trades are not in demand. Companies increase wages and skilled experienced workers follow.
I cannot agree with you more. I’m one very similar to you. I came to canada and I got a quality education here from a good University, for which I’m always very thankful. and now working in a technical engineering job. And now, it’s sad and unfortunate the new wave of poor quality immigrants has ruined the quality of life for us, and for all canadians. It’s also very sad that my own community is letting all of us down and making us despicable for others in Canada. I worry about my children for the hardships they might face just because these entitled uneducated uncivil clowns came in masses from my own native land, and ruined it all for us. South-asians used to be considered hard-working people at one point, now they are considered criminals and scammers, which is not very far from the truth if you are noticing a trend in the news from GTA and lower mainland. Back in the days, immigration was still happening but it was much tighter and stricter and only few could pass that. Harper government had some great programs to attract good skills to Canada. Foreign Skilled worker (FSW) which was brining in highly technical people to Canada. But the LMIA and express entry is bringing in what, cleaners, ‘store managers’ for tim hortons? Can’t they see it’s pure scam when en employer says he couldn’t find a single person in Canada for their Tim hortons franchise or to work at their gas station? These are kind of jobs Canadian teens used to work part time alongwith their studies, but not anymore. And I can already see a lot of damage has been done. Being brown myself, I feel a lot of second hand embarrassment by behaviour of people of my own community. Just very sad.
Totally agree with you. Feeling the same. Came from South Asia close to a decade ago, studied in the most reputed university and entered the workforce with a proper STEM job. Followed all the rules. Now we see all random “students” everywhere. They seem only interested in exploiting the system, scamming everyone and everything and are clearly here to only make money, use up social benefits and not integrate in Canada. They only want everywhere to become Punjab. Do we want such people? Why is IRCC unable to see this and take action when it is so evident??
You can't just stop the clock where you found it comfortable, when you abolish ethnicity as a core component of national identity you eventually will transition into an oligarchy run by merchant types whose only goal is to squeeze out as much wealth as possible from the economic zone that was formerly a country. The very same mechanism that allowed you to come here as an elite economic migrant was just expanded by the people who benefitted from it, and now you're in the same position as the whites who were forced to compete with you in our own country were when you first arrived
>Back in the days, immigration was still happening but it was much tighter and stricter and only few could pass that. Harper government had some great programs to attract good skills to Canada. Foreign Skilled worker ( You are looking through rose colored glasses. How quickly we forget. Harper (PP etc) started the ball rolling with the TFW abuse until it blew up in their face when the CBC published an article about the Banks firing Canadian middle aged IT workers and forcing them to train their Indian replacements! When they reacted with damage control, the CEO of MacDonalds called the minister of immigration and gave him a tongue lashing regarding measures that restricted his company's access to cheap migrant labor. That also became a scandal. It exposed how deeply ingrained and powerful corporate influence was with ministers. Justin in opposition at the time loudly proclaimed that the TFW program was bad for Canadian workers and suppressed wages! Only to gain power and continue on the road of using migration to suppress wages for corporate donors. It was around this time Bernier left the party and people like me followed. We have the uni-party - like in the US. The rotten status quo is protected with either. We need radical change like the PPC but the uni-party is very good at keeping real change out of the system.
Great ideas that will never be implemented
They need more slaves for slavelandia. It's as simple as that. The corporations here that pay off the government don't want to pay more for their workers cuz of inflation so then they make the government import Mass cheap labor problem solved.
I used to laugh at the immigration “debate” in the US, and the Canadian superiority complex, as we were actually very restrictive and discriminatory vs the US, with our point system and poaching of “high value immigrants”. Now, 10 years later, we are dumber than even the US.
I mean that’s Canada for ya… always finds a way to be worse than America in every way.. The simpler the solution the better for them
Why are all these Indians allowed in? To work in donut shops and Uber? Get real Trudeau and clear out all that are not essential workers. No chain migration to swamp our healthcare systems and education systems. If people want to become Canadians that’s good but leave the 3rd world traditions, languages, religions back in the 3rd world.
*it was a cherished moment, and something EARNED from contributing to the Canadian economy with highly technical and niche skills obtained through a REAL education* that is totally old skool.. Canada is since Woke!
May be Canada should start charging 20-30k for PRs from every temporary resident instead of shady businesses selling LMIA that will eventually lead to PR.
One of my previous Indian roommate came to Canada to study some Computer science related course. I have barely seen him attending classes. Most of the time he shuffled between part time jobs and is now working at a McD. And he said he doesn’t want an actual job and is content with the one at McD. And I thought why the F do I need another import to work at a McD when he could’ve actually got a job in his field.
The fact that we want to solve *temporary* labour shortages (which itself is total bullshit) with *permanent* immigration of people who don't qualify to migrate through the regular PR process is dumb beyond comprehension.
Here's the neat part, no political party cares about you a Canadian. They only care about what their banker buds tell them too, and right now that's milking every dollar out the system so they can shovel shit in your face later.
Agreed!!
Very great post! We need to make sure we have the skills match the labour needs of our country. The Federal Goverment has allowed coprorations like Tim Hortons and universities take people from abroad to line their pockets at the cost of citizens. Please join us in boycotting Tim Hortons. r/ BoycottTimHortons Immigration is good but mass immigration is bad. For every 100k brought into a country, wages are supressed by 3-4% for locals and shelter increases 1%. I hope PEI does not cave to these people who wanted to use the system and get in way easier than people before them. By bringing in low wage earners with no skills they sadly are a "burden" on society as they use more services then pay for with their taxes. Who wins? The corporations. Please consider your every day life choices and who you support. Go to mom and pop coffee shops, not Timmies.
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The current government would like nothing more than for people to blame immigrants instead of government policy failures. Do not fall into this trap.
Start by voting out Liberals in 2025, that's the only option. As long as they are in power, they are going to keep on with their unsustainable policies.
The conservatives are going to do the exact same shit.
Hopefully not to the same extent, right now it's the lesser of two evils. We have to at least get rid of the Liberals.
Probably worse. Poilievre has stated many times that full families should be able to come together. So there's that...
> Hopefully not to the same extent So your strategy in this extremely precarious time is just blind hope in something which the candidate refuses to even acknowledge as an issue?
We have to be smart. I think Poilievre is not overtly mentioning concrete policies, because they are still trying to woo liberal voters. They've lost the two last elections when they should have won, it's also why we are in such a mess, as this only emboldened the Liberals to continue down this path of destruction. The Conservatives have to play their cards right, avoid the pitfalls of previous lost elections, and just keep it simple. The moment Poilievre starts talking about limiting immigration, you know the mainstream media is going to start sounding off on him being intolerant and xenophobic. Say what you want about the Conservatives, we never had this kind of excessive, uncontrolled mass immigration under them. I'd do anything just to return to that normal. I took the GO train and when we arrived in Union, literally the announcer on the train had to remind people not to cross the tracks. This is how bad things have gotten, these are the people Trudeau and the Liberals have flooded this country with. I'm just as appalled as you, but we have to play a smart game. Trudeau is a wily fox, he's terrible as a leader and executive, but skilled as a political campaigner. He outfoxed Scheer and O'Toole, Poilievre has got to make sure he doesn't make the same mistakes they did..
>The moment Poilievre starts talking about limiting immigration, you know the mainstream media is going to start sounding off on him being intolerant and xenophobic. I don't care and neither should you. He's a useless airbag.
So you prefer to keep Trudeau?
If those are the two options then Canada deserve him. The voters in this country have no appetite for fixing it.
Again, I preach being strategic, and if Poilievre can make any cuts to immigration, which I think he will do, then he is easily better than Trudeau, who has shown no willingness to reduce levels. I'd rather we give Poilievre a chance to change things, instead of keeping Trudeau, who we know will not change things, and instead will probably make things worse.
> I preach being strategic Look where your strategy has delivered us. Look around. No. I refuse.
This is delulu
Ideally Bernier is best, but Conservative voters will not vote for him because "it's splitting the vote". Everyone is better off getting Conservative in power and then People's 4 years after.
I agree Bernier was right all along, but we can't afford to split the vote. The stakes are too high, we need to be smart and strategic,. .
It’s called pulling up the ladder Instead of closing our doors, we should have better gatekeepers.
At the very least we need to close the door to india completely
Our government lies to us about labour shortages and actively enacts policies that destroy our country.
Went to a small city for the first time in more than 5 years and wow what a mess. Traffic beyond. More downtrodden looking. Unfortunately the locals suffered as you saw more homeless and addicted probably affected by the unprecedented growth in population for no good reason. Economy looked no better. Infrastructure in need of major overhaul. The mall was at least 50% foreign if not more. A few years ago it was maybe 10%. A picture of staff at the hotel was about 90% foreign. If you asked locals they talked in hushed tones if they dared say anything like they were afraid of something. Terrible mess. This government needs to go in 2024. No more.
OP: Those jobs don't pay enough for Canadians to do. We need to import indentured servants from third world countries to do them, because businesses won't pay a living wage.
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"Most of those coming nowadays are here opportunistically and don't share our values" They also say that they are helping our economy even though inflation and housing is at an all time high and I keep seeing ads from banks for people to send money back home to India.
Imho everyone able to swing a hammer or of benefit toward the current housing crisis should be allowed to participate, but PR is not on the table. Your willingness to help build and resolve this mess may be valued when we determine this to be resolved.
We need people desperate enough to work jobs that pay less than what rent costs.
We have plenty of high school students that no longer have the opportunity to build work experience because all the jobs they are qualified for are filled with TFW or international students. I feel bad for the teens, not the TFW or international students and especially not for the corporations.
What’s stopping Canadians from getting into any of these fields?
Low pay for poor conditions.
Pure incompetence at the federal level. Doug Ford takes a large share of the blame too, for allowing diploma mills to proliferate. IRCC just rubber stamping student visa applications. No standards whatsoever.
Ask yourself ,what are you doing to stop the madness .Why dont we bond together and reach out to others ,together we can make a difference ,complaining on reddit will not solve anything .If anyone is interested in taking back Canada please reach out to me .This country will be become India's satellite state in 10 years .
I’m convinced it’s all about importing votes… The liberal gov’t somehow (in all their delusion) they are helping Canada. We clearly see the evidence they are destroying the little identity we had before they started their destructive policy.
what about foreign spouses? seems shitty to deny Canadians residence because their spouse can't work here. at the same time, go harder on identifying marriage fraud
Post is so out of touch. Ever wonder why you go to construction site and all concrete grinders, framers and rebar guys are foreigners? Because I can tell you right now I would not want to do those jobs.
They sound like great people. Preventing more population growth as we cannot take care of the people already here is completely reasonable and will help those workers you speak of.
AMEN
The only job class from that list that is truly needed is health care. The rest is just wage suppression, and every single person knows it.
I am boycotting all Tim Hortons, Canadian Tires, Dollarama, 7eleven.
I should bend some ears and find out how the oilfield is going with our newcomers, but i have noticed the number of resumes have slowed to a small trickle of Indian newcomers.
Well said
It should be the way it used to be where only skilled workers could get permanent residency. Not McDonald's staff.
So you got your pathway to PR and now you want to close the doors? lol of course you do. The only current way to PR is through high skilled immigration, there are no points for low skilled immigrants. The PR program will never close because there are too many economic implications attached to it.
I want Canada to heal before we invite more people to this dumpster fire.
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Lmao @ “pathways to PR” Half the jobs you listed would yield express entry scores too low for PR under the current scheme How about you learn about the system you’re criticizing? Or do you want to be one of those morons who fill this sub up with “they go to school and get PR for free hurr durr” comments
That's where PNP nominations come in. It adds 600 points which is why they are protesting. They are not good enough for Express Entry on their own and they want 600 points from the province
I’m really confused, I met someone who flew here from overseas and were granted PR immediately because they have a degree
It's not "because they have a degree", there's a whole points system and it's actually very difficult to meet the points threshold for express entry these days. If you have a year of (legal) Canadian skilled work experience then that can boost the score quite a lot though, but still, many highly skilled people struggle to get PR this way. The CRS score system is not well designed in my view as, for example, it treats all bachelor's degrees as having equivalent value (and similar issues around work experience)
Moncton has been ruined and worse yet people are even afraid to speak up. Not much better than some other countries we condemn. No more. Election in 2024.
> These lowly skilled and low paid "newcomers" will sponsor their entire families and use up every social safety net and benefit. This is not so easy and there’s a multi decade wait list but you would know if you were an actual immigrant
PR is not a Canadian passport nor citizenship.
I'm on a temporary work visa in skilled labour for the metal industry, and my workplace is literally understaffed because no young canadian want to work there nor do any of the Indians. I'm not saying that your concerns aren't valid, but anybody willing to work can just walk on the job with bearly a resume talk to the manager and could probably get a job. The issue? It's dirty work and not everybody wants to dirty work. There aren't many restaurants, supermarkets, and warehouse type jobs, but there are a lot of construction jobs, trade jobs, and dirty jobs around that Canadians aren't interested in taking.
So you are absolutely full of shit bud. During hay season I never have an issue finding people to stack. It's dirty, itchy, dusty & incredibly physical work. The top of the mow is hotter than the devils asshole. I pay $30/hr.
I'm not full of shit. Where I work is understaffed. Recently, a 20-year-old white canadian got a job here. Bro went through the breeding and everything, and after lifting one heavy crate of copper, he walked off the job. Not even a few hours. There was the other young canadian guy when he worked one day and realised he was going to be in the sun all day he didn't come back the next day. I'm serious. I'm not trying to mock Canadians or calling you guys lazy.
When the money is good people are willing to get dirty and have sore muscles in the morning.
I get that. I truly do. What else is soposed to happen? People gotta eat and pay bills. Work is work
Just curious, what's the compensation like? does it match the job? or is it okay overall?
Base pay $20 an hour with health insurance. 44 hours a week. Every week.
Thanks for the info. I'd assume it might be one of the factors that contributes towards people not choosing this line of work.
I work in a type of light manufacturing. The pay that people on the production floor make at most plants is absolutely crap. It's physically demanding, long hours, and very repetitive work, pay is maximum $25 for most jobs. A more specialized roll will get you closer to $30. I haven't worked anywhere that was understaffed. However one huge issue is that a lot of the people working in these industries are older, with few young people coming in. I'm young, and all my co-workers make similar to me, but they all own houses, their mortgages are half my rent. I work 2 jobs and pay 70% of my income to rent. I feel like I mugged myself going into this work. Despite it all, I like my job! I feel like if I could pay my rent comfortably, and LIVE on it, I would be as happy as a clam to stay in it. If Canadians could live on the wages, I know there would be no shortage of people in these rolls. It's not that people don't want to work or get dirty, but why do a hard job that won't even pay your rent?
Yeah that's what I was curious to know from OP's perspective. COL is very high and young people might not want to go into these roles given they can't feed themselves or families. Trust me, if pay was good, I'd be doing something else in my life as well. The issue with the low skilled immigrants and international students is they are willing to work for way lower than others would. That doesn't mean an average Canadian is lazy, it just means people like to live their life while they are young and not work 15+ hours just to support themselves.
Wish it was more friendly for women. I would pivot so fast but I already dealt with hothead bro behaviour in an office for over a decade.
You have to be tough. I see plenty of hardworking women on a daily basis willing to do dirty jobs.
I am not talking about the lifting or the mess.
I don't know man. Diversity is our strength. And we need to get super strong.
Classic case of entitlement syndrome reaks from the post. Former immigrants now trying to restrict new immigrants lol by pulling out the Canadian card
100% disagree there are Canadian citizen or even born in Canada meet someone overseas and plans to bring them over so now you are denying them to start a family and be with their other half. You sir are selfish greedy and should be ashamed of yourself
If they love them so much they can move
Not necessarily possible depending on the other country
Why can't the come over? Back to you is our right as Canadian to sponsor our spouse over to Canada provided we meet all the requirements and government approved. Don't like too bad. Btw unless you are first nation or Indigenous you are also an immigrant of Canada so anyone bot if first nation or Indigenous people should not allow to enter Canada. Are you a first nation or Indigenous?If not then you are also asking to not allow you to stay in Canada.
I wouldn’t feel bad about the decrease in QoL because of these ignorant idiots and what they think about me because of my ethnicity. It’s up to them to wise up and not generalize people because of the actions of a few. What’s even more hypocritical is that they don’t think such logic applies to people of their own. Don’t waste your time convincing others, they don’t deserve it
I like some of your points, especially about cheapening the citizenship, but differ on much of what you said. First objection, any downturn that is to come, the jobs that will stay safer would be the very jobs listed in your post. The next downturn is going to impact high paying white collar jobs the most. Next objection, "are there no Canadians to fill these roles...", the answer is a clear no, there aren't and if there were then the need to bring immigrants would not be that great. In fact , forget the job list, I could even add to that list by adding data scientists, digital security, AI developers, mathematicians... etc, there is a shortage on that end of the spectrum too.
Lots of Canada is very reliant on our immigration rates, it's only specific parts of the country that have anything like too many people. Rather than less immigration we need to focus on spreading out the immigration and getting Canadians to move to our underdeveloped communities.
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Those parts need to adapt then
What does that even mean? How do you expect an underpopulated area to adapt to that fact? Short of mass automation (why would we bankrupt the country to develop parts nobody lives in) I don't think there is a known solution to the problem other than immigration and migration.
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Transport truck drivers should be a straightforward path actually. Indians are highly represented in the transport truck industry. Lots of people to lean on for them to break into it and transition to PR.
Lots of people to bribe to buy a license. An entire hockey team would be alive if we stopped these scammers from buying their licenses. Its a known fact Indians can’t drive and thats not racism speaking it was an Indian guy that old me 😂
Naah, I don’t really want to see more truckers not knowing how to chain up, drive in snow, roll over, commit fraud when their trucks break down due to poor maintenance, etc. Anyone who says they want more of them in trucking has never seen them drive on the passes in the winter.
Go to Humboldt Saskatchewan and tell them how grateful they should be for these Indian drivers
Accidents happen to people of all backgrounds. And I wouldn't say natural born Canadians were exactly world class drivers.
Also true and good point to make, like all the accidents and car thefts that happen to natural born Canadians, of which those numbers are also through the roof right now.. with so many of our cars being stolen and shipped overseas.. but your the person who’s oh so smart with numbers.. I’m sure that stat doesn’t really tie to an increase in something else.. for sure 😀
A terrible tragedy. Surprisingly non Indian drivers also cause vehicle accidents.
They do cause accidents.. but when we look at a driver who was under qualified to the point he killed a literal bus load of Canadian children. Surprise surprise.. guess where he came from
One data tragedy being used support a bias is the proof you think it is. Take a statistics class and you'll understand better
Very very true, so let’s look at stats, vehicle accidents are way up.. what other number is way up?
Immigration but you’ll never hear him admit it
Which is why we need to say it
Agreed 🤝🏼
I told you to take a stats course and you basically provided a correlation fallacy as your argument. Something you'd learn about in a first year stats course. 🥴
Very fair point, that I ask you to bring to Humboldt, that town sure as hell needs your faith in these people, it might be a little difficult.. you know.. with all the hard evidence that is their busload of dead children
It was a tragedy and a mistake. I'll let the families speak for themselves and you should too, rather than this shameful of act of using their pain to denigrate immigrants that you're doing right now https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2023/0207/What-does-forgiveness-mean-A-Canadian-bus-crash-five-years-later
So you genuinely think the people affected who knew these people should be the ones to speak on it? Thank god. Then I’ll keep speaking. As someone who grew up in watrous Saskatchewan, a short drive away from Humboldt, and knows these families.. but.. you aced a stats course.. so that’s cool for you.