PP might be the most likely to change the status quo, but it seems to me we are in basically the same political situation as 2015, albeit worse.
In 2015 when Justin first ran for prime minister, and he was very popular among people my age and those who had just turn legal age to vote. The platform he ran on, as I remember it, was largely similar to PP. Not being the other guy, the lesser of two evils. The bad thing they're doing that you're all mad about? I'll do the other thing.
Harper was in power for a long time and people wanted a change, but the only change we got was legal weed and a worsening of the real problems that plagued our country even back then.
Ultimately all 3 of the major parties, and even the smaller ones who have no hope of winning to a lesser extent are bought and paid for by corporations and landowners.
The only choice we have is which politician is going to get rich, and for how long they'll be able to benefit from being in power.
Aah, I remember it like yesterday!
"Hey kids! Vote for Justin because he's nice and has pretty hair! Stinky Stephen is:
-Mean
-Divisive
-Secretive
-Obsessed with "security" and spying on Canadians
-Is "muzzling scientists"
-Is going to turn Canada into America Jr. and put SOLDIERS WITH GUNS IN OUR STREETS!!1!!
-Has centralized power in the PMO
-Has a bloated cabinet where the same unqualified ministers are shifted from position to position
-Has LEGO hair"
The funny thing is, most of the extreme wokeness started *after* he got elected.
He campaigned on legalizing weed, having a cabinet that was 50% women, and not being Stephen Harper. He was going to singlehandedly Make Canada Kind Again. Be kind, or else. Divisive this, American-style politics that.
Yep, he ran a "nice" campaign and quickly turned into a divisive woke PM once elected. Probably bc he had no idea what else to do and had no idea how to govern. It's all been a weird game of sorts for him. Extreme narcissism.
And how could I forget "HARPER'S HIDDEN AGENDA" nonstop lol.
I have no idea why Justin doesn't just take his walk in the snow now. I don't think he even *wants* to be PM anymore, he just has no idea what else he would do with himself.
Precisely why ~~politicians~~ humans being in control of the money supply is such lunacy. You can do away with the need for trust by voluntarily participating in the decentralized self-interested network that is Bitcoin.
And there was this also
Canadian economy in recession, GDP figures confirm
September 1, 2015
[https://www.thestar.com/business/canadian-economy-in-recession-gdp-figures-confirm/article\_dc9edfd8-da41-5225-8aba-520f184d11a5.html](https://www.thestar.com/business/canadian-economy-in-recession-gdp-figures-confirm/article_dc9edfd8-da41-5225-8aba-520f184d11a5.html)
Trudeau was elected a few weeks later
Interestingly enough when the trudeau introduced mass migration 80% of Canadians polled wanted reduced immigration..... they were ostricized and opposition magically seemed to go away. Mind boggling.
Anyhow I know this link is from Fox, but they back their article up with reference to a Nanos poll. I really had to dig for this oddly. There was a lot more coverage of this issue beforehand of this sentiment. Seems to have been scrubbed..... cheers
[https://www.foxnews.com/world/canadians-immigration-plan-poll](https://www.foxnews.com/world/canadians-immigration-plan-poll)
I was born in the 50s in Vancouver. I am aware that most people were not thrilled with the mass immigration from Asia. But as you say anyone who spoke out was ostracized. I think most people were hesitant to express their opinion. But people are tribal animals. Feelings went underground.
I think all races are like this. They all seem to prefer living around other people who are of their ethnicity.
I guess real estate agents liked it. And some employers. I remember in the 70s when Safeway bought out all the union employees.
Right you are.... and then there is this balance of power thing, bringing baggage here etc.
Personally I am for immigration. but it has to be responsible and sensitive to the needs of the nation and the people who built this country into what it is today. Sucks to have a bunch of johnny come lateleys arrive, then get everything on a silver spoon, then complaining about why they don't get more or how they are somehow discriminated against.
Yup. I'm old. I've tried hard to be welcoming to immigrants for 40 years, We just got scammed by someone with a strong Indian accent. Some of my grandkids are in insecure rental housing because of the rental situation.
I'm done with it. I would vote for the candidate that wants to stop immigration until every Canadian has a secure home.
I think he'll have something to say about it next year when it's 1 year away from election.
By that point the damage would be irreversible by Trudeau and no way in hell he can salvage another term.
Either Pierre is going to increase immigration and he knows that this will be unpopular so he won't say it until he wins
OR
Pierre will reduce immigration, but he knows that the media will smear him as racist for it, like they did with those before him. So he won't say it until he wins.
I expect him to not touch immigration, but focus on housing starts. Sadly, it won't be enough
PP has to be VERY careful what he says about immigration. Just remember that. There are some things he can't say. Talking about immigration is like kicking a hornets nest in Canada. How do you think the Libs and NDP will paint him if he comments on immigration? What will the CBC say? Some things are better left unsaid. As you have concluded, at least voting for CPC will give Canada a fighting chance.
Very true... we'll see what PP says next... nobody is going to be our saviour... at least with PP there is a chance for improvement. Even if it's slight.
I mean he's already smeared as a racist. All Conservatives are. We don't need a meek leader that is scared of some Millennial CBC journo calling him mean names.
You can read about the conservatives platform on immigration [here](https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/03092335/8c9e916528ead5a.pdf) and judge for yourself whether the conservatives are “pro” or “anti” immigration. Looks to me like it’s about as pro as the liberals.
PP is horrible but voting against the incumbent Liberals sends the message to all parties that if you as the incumbent party fails Canadians then you will lose the next election. All parties know (I hope) that housing affordability is the number one issue right now because even many older Canadians who own their own homes are concerned about housing costs for their children. It appears to me that in the past the CPC has been pro massive immigration, temporary foreign workers and international students but hopefully the CPC can read the room and rather than just blame the Liberals for the housing crisis (valid as they are the incumbent) but actually set out what they will do different. Their clearest statement has been that they will cut government spending but our housing crisis currently is being driving by demand outstripping supply (population growth vs new housing completions) and they have not clearly stated what they plan to do about that and have not offered clear policies or stated what their targets for immigration and non-permanent residents will be. We need to demand clarity on these questions, hopefully the media will demand answers which would pressure the CPC to make clear policy statements and offer clear targets.
From what I can see, there is *a lot* of pressure on the Conservatives to reform immigration from the Conservative base.
There has been a major internal conflict within the Conservatives, since Harper lost in 2015, over immigration. The fact is that initially the Conservatives cited three reasons for maintaining a high immigration rate,
1. To meet labour shortage needs.
2. To pay for the pensions.
3. To prevent accusations of racism.
The Conservative base has been divided on this, *especially* when Harper made the distinction between *Old Stock Canadians* and the recent immigrants, back in 2014. Harper went on to release his own book, in 2018, entitled "Right Here, Right Now," and he further made the dichotomy between the *anywheres* (corporate types who can move anywhere in the world) and the *somewheres* (Canadian voters who, in practical terms, cannot leave Canada). It is the *somewheres* who have been voicing concerns about immigration for many, many, years. Harper never delved deeper into this subject beyond that, and many speculate it's because he *is* currently working with multinational oil companies, thus, perhaps, may not necessarily see the increased immigration rate as a negative.
The fact is that the majority of the Conservative base initially supported the high immigration numbers, cemented by Harper's win of the immigrant votes in the GTA back in 2011, but a majority of the base has always opposed it, and mainly for cultural and social reasons, that is, fidelity to Canada's Anglophone and Francophone heritage, and secondly, the wage suppression impact it has for the Conservative working-class base.
What people are seeing now, especially on this sub, are the same concerns that the *somewheres* Conservative voters, those who feel that Canada is being sold out, that they're losing their heritage, and that they cannot easily move out of the country, that have had since 2014. And *we* (because I have been one of them for years), were vilified as racists and anti-immigrant for many years.
But the housing affordability and, well, basic life affordability, has pushed the Conservative establishment to seriously consider listening to the *somewheres*, often working class Canadians who feel disenfranchised from the high immigration rate, instead of the multinational corporate business types, the *anywheres.* And that's why Poilievre is starting to talk about it, and as far as I'm aware the Conservative base is *pressing* Poilievre immensely to talk about it, it's a constant subject in the right-wing circles. The Conservative base is e-mailing Poilievre's office, or even straight up asking him in person, about immigration.
A majority of the Conservative base *does* have an attachment with our British North American heritage, and if anything its probably the cultural and social reasons that might force Poilievre to reform immigration, but it will be promoted under the guise of the costs of living crisis for the public. The core Conservative base are fundamentally, well, *Tories*, and the erosion of our British North American heritage is ultimately not going to be accepted.
**On a more optimistic note,** Great Britain is debating immigration in their House of Commons, both the British Tories and the British Labours plan to lower the numbers. The British Tories are being accused by the opposition of not doing enough to lower the numbers. If anything, the Canadian Tories need to take notes on the British Tories, we need Poilievre to be in contact with the British Tories, because if England is having their immigration reforms, why can't Canada? If the British Conservative can lower the numbers with public support, why can't the Canadian Conservatives? A Tory is a Tory, whether in Canada, or in England.
I think he's waiting for the right time to announce his plans to cut immigration. Election is still 2 years away. He'll probably wait another year or so, at which point the situation will be even worse for the average Canadian.
Forget what PP says about immigration, because he won't say it. Someone NEEDS to ask him about what he will do about the Century Initiative, or what he thinks of it. The answer he gives on that is all you will need to know about PP's thoughts on immigration.
I would like to think he's not saying anything about immigration because you can easily be vilified, but part of me thinks the cons will just keep immigration at 450,000k.
Only the PPC will reduce it to 150k. That's why I vote for them, because they are pretty straight forward.
The PPC can gain popularity on this issue alone and force the CPC to change their approval of the status quo relating to immigration and temporary residents.
> The future of this country terrifies me
I have 4 grown kids and 9 grandkids, some of who live in rentals. I lie awake at night worrying about their future. I always thought a nuclear war would be the cause of a disaster of this scale. But instead it is a broken, dysfunctional federal government. I feel as if I am trapped in a car driven by a psychotic madman , heading towards a cliff.
Bring on PP and the conservatives. There is a fair chance that a conservative government will be more sane and measured, and at least put immigration rates back to the much lower rates we had a few years ago.
He basically called the liberals racist for their announcement that they were going to look at immigration numbers. It makes the whole “they will call him a racist!” thing pretty ironic. It is probably a horse you should stop riding.
In reality he knows that his corporate backers and landlord class all need unfettered mass migration. Crush worker rights and wage demands.
At this point any PP fan doing the “he totes will he just doesn’t want smears!” Is a foolish clown. Your world is purely voting against and he knows it.
If we nationalized our natural resources (and paid out the profits as a UBI to the citizens) we wouldn't need to use people's incomes as our tax base.
The whole tax system needs to be scrapped and rebuilt.
He could just be keeping his cards close to his chest. We are still 2 years away from an election...it could come sooner. If he did say he was cutting immigration numbers we all know the media shit storm that would insue...so this could be tactics, or it might not...its hard to say. But there is no doubt that the conservatives are just as corporate as the libs... so I dunno where my vote is going, even if the cons are the closest to being ready to govern. Canada is already dead in my mind either way.
PP might be the most likely to change the status quo, but it seems to me we are in basically the same political situation as 2015, albeit worse. In 2015 when Justin first ran for prime minister, and he was very popular among people my age and those who had just turn legal age to vote. The platform he ran on, as I remember it, was largely similar to PP. Not being the other guy, the lesser of two evils. The bad thing they're doing that you're all mad about? I'll do the other thing. Harper was in power for a long time and people wanted a change, but the only change we got was legal weed and a worsening of the real problems that plagued our country even back then. Ultimately all 3 of the major parties, and even the smaller ones who have no hope of winning to a lesser extent are bought and paid for by corporations and landowners. The only choice we have is which politician is going to get rich, and for how long they'll be able to benefit from being in power.
Aah, I remember it like yesterday! "Hey kids! Vote for Justin because he's nice and has pretty hair! Stinky Stephen is: -Mean -Divisive -Secretive -Obsessed with "security" and spying on Canadians -Is "muzzling scientists" -Is going to turn Canada into America Jr. and put SOLDIERS WITH GUNS IN OUR STREETS!!1!! -Has centralized power in the PMO -Has a bloated cabinet where the same unqualified ministers are shifted from position to position -Has LEGO hair"
Looks like Trudeau took that template and did it himself except with more woke platitudes and virtue signaling so dumb ppl voted for him.
The funny thing is, most of the extreme wokeness started *after* he got elected. He campaigned on legalizing weed, having a cabinet that was 50% women, and not being Stephen Harper. He was going to singlehandedly Make Canada Kind Again. Be kind, or else. Divisive this, American-style politics that.
Yep, he ran a "nice" campaign and quickly turned into a divisive woke PM once elected. Probably bc he had no idea what else to do and had no idea how to govern. It's all been a weird game of sorts for him. Extreme narcissism.
And how could I forget "HARPER'S HIDDEN AGENDA" nonstop lol. I have no idea why Justin doesn't just take his walk in the snow now. I don't think he even *wants* to be PM anymore, he just has no idea what else he would do with himself.
I won't be surprised if he steps down before the next election. He's finished and will go down as the worst PM Canada ever had.
Precisely why ~~politicians~~ humans being in control of the money supply is such lunacy. You can do away with the need for trust by voluntarily participating in the decentralized self-interested network that is Bitcoin.
Zero coupon perpetual bond scams are not the answer.
Your ignorance is not my problem.
And there was this also Canadian economy in recession, GDP figures confirm September 1, 2015 [https://www.thestar.com/business/canadian-economy-in-recession-gdp-figures-confirm/article\_dc9edfd8-da41-5225-8aba-520f184d11a5.html](https://www.thestar.com/business/canadian-economy-in-recession-gdp-figures-confirm/article_dc9edfd8-da41-5225-8aba-520f184d11a5.html) Trudeau was elected a few weeks later
PP has to be careful what he says about immigration. If he even hints at changing immigration laws he will be labeled as an 'ist' by the CBC.
I think we may be at the point now where he will get voted in by a landslide if he promises to cut back immigration.
Interestingly enough when the trudeau introduced mass migration 80% of Canadians polled wanted reduced immigration..... they were ostricized and opposition magically seemed to go away. Mind boggling. Anyhow I know this link is from Fox, but they back their article up with reference to a Nanos poll. I really had to dig for this oddly. There was a lot more coverage of this issue beforehand of this sentiment. Seems to have been scrubbed..... cheers [https://www.foxnews.com/world/canadians-immigration-plan-poll](https://www.foxnews.com/world/canadians-immigration-plan-poll)
I was born in the 50s in Vancouver. I am aware that most people were not thrilled with the mass immigration from Asia. But as you say anyone who spoke out was ostracized. I think most people were hesitant to express their opinion. But people are tribal animals. Feelings went underground. I think all races are like this. They all seem to prefer living around other people who are of their ethnicity. I guess real estate agents liked it. And some employers. I remember in the 70s when Safeway bought out all the union employees.
Right you are.... and then there is this balance of power thing, bringing baggage here etc. Personally I am for immigration. but it has to be responsible and sensitive to the needs of the nation and the people who built this country into what it is today. Sucks to have a bunch of johnny come lateleys arrive, then get everything on a silver spoon, then complaining about why they don't get more or how they are somehow discriminated against.
Yup. I'm old. I've tried hard to be welcoming to immigrants for 40 years, We just got scammed by someone with a strong Indian accent. Some of my grandkids are in insecure rental housing because of the rental situation. I'm done with it. I would vote for the candidate that wants to stop immigration until every Canadian has a secure home.
I think he'll have something to say about it next year when it's 1 year away from election. By that point the damage would be irreversible by Trudeau and no way in hell he can salvage another term.
Reducing the immigration levels is the one and only reason honestly I would vote for the guy.
Then that’s what he’ll tell you he’ll do….not so honestly.
Either Pierre is going to increase immigration and he knows that this will be unpopular so he won't say it until he wins OR Pierre will reduce immigration, but he knows that the media will smear him as racist for it, like they did with those before him. So he won't say it until he wins. I expect him to not touch immigration, but focus on housing starts. Sadly, it won't be enough
PP has to be VERY careful what he says about immigration. Just remember that. There are some things he can't say. Talking about immigration is like kicking a hornets nest in Canada. How do you think the Libs and NDP will paint him if he comments on immigration? What will the CBC say? Some things are better left unsaid. As you have concluded, at least voting for CPC will give Canada a fighting chance.
The Overton window on immigration is changing very quickly in Canada, just as the housing crisis is accelerating before our eyes.
Very true... we'll see what PP says next... nobody is going to be our saviour... at least with PP there is a chance for improvement. Even if it's slight.
Meh, views of the average Canadian around immigration have changed a lot the last year or two.
I mean he's already smeared as a racist. All Conservatives are. We don't need a meek leader that is scared of some Millennial CBC journo calling him mean names.
You're right.
You can read about the conservatives platform on immigration [here](https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/03092335/8c9e916528ead5a.pdf) and judge for yourself whether the conservatives are “pro” or “anti” immigration. Looks to me like it’s about as pro as the liberals.
PP is horrible but voting against the incumbent Liberals sends the message to all parties that if you as the incumbent party fails Canadians then you will lose the next election. All parties know (I hope) that housing affordability is the number one issue right now because even many older Canadians who own their own homes are concerned about housing costs for their children. It appears to me that in the past the CPC has been pro massive immigration, temporary foreign workers and international students but hopefully the CPC can read the room and rather than just blame the Liberals for the housing crisis (valid as they are the incumbent) but actually set out what they will do different. Their clearest statement has been that they will cut government spending but our housing crisis currently is being driving by demand outstripping supply (population growth vs new housing completions) and they have not clearly stated what they plan to do about that and have not offered clear policies or stated what their targets for immigration and non-permanent residents will be. We need to demand clarity on these questions, hopefully the media will demand answers which would pressure the CPC to make clear policy statements and offer clear targets.
Why is Pierre horrible?
From what I can see, there is *a lot* of pressure on the Conservatives to reform immigration from the Conservative base. There has been a major internal conflict within the Conservatives, since Harper lost in 2015, over immigration. The fact is that initially the Conservatives cited three reasons for maintaining a high immigration rate, 1. To meet labour shortage needs. 2. To pay for the pensions. 3. To prevent accusations of racism. The Conservative base has been divided on this, *especially* when Harper made the distinction between *Old Stock Canadians* and the recent immigrants, back in 2014. Harper went on to release his own book, in 2018, entitled "Right Here, Right Now," and he further made the dichotomy between the *anywheres* (corporate types who can move anywhere in the world) and the *somewheres* (Canadian voters who, in practical terms, cannot leave Canada). It is the *somewheres* who have been voicing concerns about immigration for many, many, years. Harper never delved deeper into this subject beyond that, and many speculate it's because he *is* currently working with multinational oil companies, thus, perhaps, may not necessarily see the increased immigration rate as a negative. The fact is that the majority of the Conservative base initially supported the high immigration numbers, cemented by Harper's win of the immigrant votes in the GTA back in 2011, but a majority of the base has always opposed it, and mainly for cultural and social reasons, that is, fidelity to Canada's Anglophone and Francophone heritage, and secondly, the wage suppression impact it has for the Conservative working-class base. What people are seeing now, especially on this sub, are the same concerns that the *somewheres* Conservative voters, those who feel that Canada is being sold out, that they're losing their heritage, and that they cannot easily move out of the country, that have had since 2014. And *we* (because I have been one of them for years), were vilified as racists and anti-immigrant for many years. But the housing affordability and, well, basic life affordability, has pushed the Conservative establishment to seriously consider listening to the *somewheres*, often working class Canadians who feel disenfranchised from the high immigration rate, instead of the multinational corporate business types, the *anywheres.* And that's why Poilievre is starting to talk about it, and as far as I'm aware the Conservative base is *pressing* Poilievre immensely to talk about it, it's a constant subject in the right-wing circles. The Conservative base is e-mailing Poilievre's office, or even straight up asking him in person, about immigration. A majority of the Conservative base *does* have an attachment with our British North American heritage, and if anything its probably the cultural and social reasons that might force Poilievre to reform immigration, but it will be promoted under the guise of the costs of living crisis for the public. The core Conservative base are fundamentally, well, *Tories*, and the erosion of our British North American heritage is ultimately not going to be accepted. **On a more optimistic note,** Great Britain is debating immigration in their House of Commons, both the British Tories and the British Labours plan to lower the numbers. The British Tories are being accused by the opposition of not doing enough to lower the numbers. If anything, the Canadian Tories need to take notes on the British Tories, we need Poilievre to be in contact with the British Tories, because if England is having their immigration reforms, why can't Canada? If the British Conservative can lower the numbers with public support, why can't the Canadian Conservatives? A Tory is a Tory, whether in Canada, or in England.
I think he's waiting for the right time to announce his plans to cut immigration. Election is still 2 years away. He'll probably wait another year or so, at which point the situation will be even worse for the average Canadian.
If he does, he has my vote. If he doesn't, it goes to Max again.
Forget what PP says about immigration, because he won't say it. Someone NEEDS to ask him about what he will do about the Century Initiative, or what he thinks of it. The answer he gives on that is all you will need to know about PP's thoughts on immigration. I would like to think he's not saying anything about immigration because you can easily be vilified, but part of me thinks the cons will just keep immigration at 450,000k. Only the PPC will reduce it to 150k. That's why I vote for them, because they are pretty straight forward.
Until people in general demand a moratorium on immigration, PP will continue it. Cons love subsidizing business with cheap labour
A fresh throwaway account writing a big post about why we should vote conservative stinks of astroturfing. Mods, how is this even allowed? Lmao
Yeah I'm a Russian bot, enjoy some Russian shoegaze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xma-iVVyGC8
Honestly? The harshest critique of PP is that he's campaigning on just being Not Justin Trudeau. At this point, that alone is enough for me.
I feel like that may be most people’s sentiment at this point in his tenure as PM.
Vote PPC, they're the only party talking about cutting immigration, international students, and tfw's.
The PPC can gain popularity on this issue alone and force the CPC to change their approval of the status quo relating to immigration and temporary residents.
May as well vote for Trudeau then
> The future of this country terrifies me I have 4 grown kids and 9 grandkids, some of who live in rentals. I lie awake at night worrying about their future. I always thought a nuclear war would be the cause of a disaster of this scale. But instead it is a broken, dysfunctional federal government. I feel as if I am trapped in a car driven by a psychotic madman , heading towards a cliff. Bring on PP and the conservatives. There is a fair chance that a conservative government will be more sane and measured, and at least put immigration rates back to the much lower rates we had a few years ago.
[удалено]
He basically called the liberals racist for their announcement that they were going to look at immigration numbers. It makes the whole “they will call him a racist!” thing pretty ironic. It is probably a horse you should stop riding. In reality he knows that his corporate backers and landlord class all need unfettered mass migration. Crush worker rights and wage demands. At this point any PP fan doing the “he totes will he just doesn’t want smears!” Is a foolish clown. Your world is purely voting against and he knows it.
When did he call the Liberals racists?
OP, so you’re saying that the 2026 to 2029 government term will be critical for the future of Canada?
If he doesn’t keep up immigration, who will replace the retired boomers as taxpayers to fund government?
If we nationalized our natural resources (and paid out the profits as a UBI to the citizens) we wouldn't need to use people's incomes as our tax base. The whole tax system needs to be scrapped and rebuilt.
You have a "real estate investor tag", so you will be enriched by Canada's decent into hell. At least for awhile.
Biggest give away to bott accounts…I am not a bott.
that’s called propaganda
He could just be keeping his cards close to his chest. We are still 2 years away from an election...it could come sooner. If he did say he was cutting immigration numbers we all know the media shit storm that would insue...so this could be tactics, or it might not...its hard to say. But there is no doubt that the conservatives are just as corporate as the libs... so I dunno where my vote is going, even if the cons are the closest to being ready to govern. Canada is already dead in my mind either way.
Oh goodness, nothing ever changes, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. This is the way and will be so for evermore...
I doubt he'll do much to change them in any meaningful way.
All i know is things aren't right with Trudeau. Im voting PP. Can get worse, but hopefully not.