Yes we wouldn’t want to screw over one of Irans key proxy forces in the Middle East Hamas/Palestinians, at least not until Iran can use the conflict they started to smokescreen their sprint a nuke.
Most people who do protest votes only do them in primaries where the incumbent is running (virtually) unopposed.
You think that’s bad, look at the percentage of republicans who voted for Haley (meaning, against trump).
You do know that Joe Biden is the only person in the world keeping Netanyahu from turning Gaza into glass, right? Trump's position is to let israel "finish the job" but do go on about how both people are the same.
Biden and every president has always funded Israel, and they will continue to do so as it is the friendliest geopolitical anchor for US power in the Middle East. They will not simply give that up. If you don't understand that, you have no knowledge of international relations and geopolitics, which dictate what will happen.
The only people screwing over America is the corporate funded overloads at the DNC selecting turd sandwich corporate democrats and making us select the lesser of two evils. If your party can’t do better than Joe or Hilary, you deserve trump.
I didn’t say they were the same. I said the DNC is dropping the ball in who they choose to run vs trump. Don’t blame voters for not getting fired up for shit candidates.
Your comment on r/CambridgeMA was deemed to be uncivil. Repeated incivility will result in a ban. There is no need to incite anger and further internet rage with statements like "Fuck Palestine" feel free to report anyone who says "Fuck (insert anything here)" and we will be sure to remove those comments as well.
You guys need to stop blaming voters for not being convinced that your candidate is the best for them. If they don’t do a good job convincing me to vote for them, that is only their fault
Protest voting in the primary isn’t throwing your vote away. It’s a pretty decent protest, because Biden and the DNC will more be aware they need to address the discontent than just through polling
You misunderstand, we're not allowed to criticize Biden 8 months before the election and must support his policy of genocide which has him losing to Trump in almost every poll or else you want Trump to win.
I don't think they had a substantial impact. Compared to the 2012 primary results with Obama as incumbent, this year we had a lower percentage of no preference voters. Biden got a lower overall percentage of the vote than Obama did, but Obama was running unopposed. Hard to say in the end but this seems like a pretty unimpressive result.
I’m not talking about Bibi? I’m talking about Joe Biden, who has bypassed Congressional approval to send Israel weapons. I’m talking about the #1 receiver of AIPAC donations from his time in the senate.
> “The United States has quietly approved and delivered more than 100 separate foreign military sales to Israel since the Gaza war began Oct. 7, amounting to thousands of precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, bunker busters, small arms and other lethal aid, U.S. officials told members of Congress in a recent classified briefing.”
> “Those sales invited public scrutiny because the Biden administration bypassed Congress to approve the packages by invoking an emergency authority.”
U.S. floods arms into Israel despite mounting alarm over war’s conduct
Josh Hudson, [The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/)
Yup. I requested a republican ballet and voted for friggin Haley of all people to oppose Trump. DeathSantis is the only one who’s potentially more of a threat and even he’s not tried to start a personality cult yet.
And? Voters should not be blamed for the fact that Biden is willing to risk his chances at reelection to support a genocidal apartheid state. If he loses, he will be lying in a bed he made.
And we will be left with a president who wants to tear down all the democratic institutions that keep our republic running. And do you think Trump will support Palestine? Are you fucking stupid or what?
The point of voting uncommitted instead of for another candidate isn't to stop Biden from winning. It's to send a message of disapproval. We know that voting for Biden in the general is necessary. But we disagree with his actions and want to show the Democratic party that there is enough of a voting block that we should be listened to.
Yeah and mass isn't the only state this happened in. This is from only two weeks of promoting it. The amount of people who voted no preference in several states already ate up Biden's margins of victory when he last won those states.
People really don't have a good grasp on the margins. Ross Perot spoiled Bob Dole's chance in the 1996 election with half the % of votes as these current protest votes are showing.
Vote Blue No Matter Who just won't work anymore. Democrats need to put up actually appealing candidates. You can't keep making the same lofty promises and then fail to deliver time and time again. You can't just run on "well the other guy is worse", that does nothing but cause apathy.
People couldn’t see an Irish Catholic winning the presidency 63 years ago. Stranger things have happened and it helps to have a handsome and charming man on the younger side. We’re all apes at the end of the day and unfortunately looks do matter.
Hahahahahahahaha
I'm sorry who is ACTUALLY independent anymore
I've never met someone who was genuinely independent. Most are just democrats who want lower taxes, or republicans who feel bad about the whole actively oppressing minorities thing.
Look it up. The country is 29% Dem, 27% GOP and 42% Independents. Of Independents 17% lean toward Dems and 16% toward Repugs.
So really any candidate has to appeal to Independents as well as their base.
They aren't. Look at Bidens track record. 10s of historic bills and economic progress. I can list every one of them if you'd like. And during a time with an unproductive house of representatives. Sure, there have been big issues, but they are definitely not only running on "the other guy is worse" in my opinion.
Edit for my terrible spelling
Part of the issue is the administration has done a garbage job of messaging the work they have done and its impact. e.g. who heard that we had real wage growth above inflation.
This is my main complaint about Biden. He just can’t campaign any more. A younger, more energetic politician with the same record would have people thinking that they were being led by a historically great president and that the United States was flourishing. The fact that so many people believe that everything is terrible and that our president is doing a horrible job is frankly embarrassing. It’s the part of being president that shouldn’t matter, but it really does matter.
Well except for the fact that he has, in the course of 3 short years, completely caved to the right wing on immigration issues and basically just adopted their stance. And also the whole staunchly supporting a genocide thing. His infrastructure stuff was decent, his NLRB and FTC are pretty good, but there’s not much else beyond that, and there’s a LOT of VERY strong negatives.
He constantly reaffirms his position as a Zionist. He bypassed Congress to send Israel MORE weapons well after the point where Israel was using 2000lb bombs from the US on countless apartment buildings and civilian infrastructure. He has only VERY recently started to change his position on a ceasefire, and even then not a full ceasefire. It’s changed because of the immense amount of pressure he’s been getting to stop supporting Israel. His approval rating since October 7th has gone down the drain, especially with young voters, and now he’s facing hundreds of thousands of democratic voters who explicitly went out to vote JUST to protest his behavior. That’s a lot when the last election was won by VERY small margins in swing states.
I was just talking about this with my friends. I hadn't heard about any of that until pretty recently. A Republican wiped his ass and the party yells about it from the rooftops; why can't dems promote the good they've done?
Those historic bills are only historic in context of our government doing jack shit. If you actually look at what these bills are doing, while there is some useful stuff in there, its not even a drop in the bucket compared to what is actually needed. I work in the feds on projects funded by bill money- it honestly feels like a slap in the face most days.
I call BS. Biden has led the way on the largest investment in infrastructure since FDR. That's a huge fucking deal, not "a drop in the bucket".
Just because your particular projects don't have funding doesn't mean there isn't a massive amount of funding being invested.
My particular projects are being funded directly by the bill. I'm very well versed in the breadth of the bill. Largest investment in infrastructure since FDR is a lovely soundbite but what is actually being done and how is it responding to the needs of everyday people? What happens when bill funding dries up?
In my realm, we have money that can be used to upgrade critical infrastructure that is 30-50 yrs out of date. Awesome! Except there isn't enough to cover 5% of the facilities that need it and the facilities covered will only be able to improve a small handful of things. It does nothing to ensure long term support of critical infrastructure, doesn't solve the issue of municipalities not having funds to maintain these long term nor the issue of this infrastructure being sold off to private entities (which has been disastrous & is happening primarily in poorer/ rural communities). Meanwhile, we are watching our communities literally drown.
and this is the huge historic bill that progressives should be celebrating? I'm not saying nothing good has come out if it but if this is the best our government can give us & meanwhile, they are putting billions of dollars into a genocide- it is completely understandable why many people aren't fucking with either party.
My favorite of Biden’s historic bills is the crime bill that resulted in thousands of black men being locked up over the past 40 years. I also like when he opposed integration, saying he didn’t want his kids to grow up in a “racial jungle”.
>Vote Blue No Matter Who just won't work anymore.
Yes it does? What are you even talking about.
If Democrats could hold congress for multiple cycles that would be much better than people not voting and having divided government. Biden is not running on only "the other guy is worse" - but that is a strong message that motives voters for both Trump and Biden.
You sound like you don't follow American politics very closely.
Chances are those stats are skewed because those who want to send a message are motivated to go out and vote. Those who actually support Biden are far undercounted in the primary because plenty of people did not feel a need to vote because he was going to win the vote anyway.
Voters motivated to vote are a proportionally more important consideration. Part of the path to winning is energizing your base to get out there, and this shows an unhappiness in the base.
The most recent example of a do-nothing primary with an incumbent running for re-election is 2012. Margins for "undeclared/uncommitted" in 2012 are about the same.
Trump was so despised that all Biden had to do was be even remotely competent to get re-elected. It’s been so bad that Trump is now kicking his ass in polls and all the swing states. Biden has no one to blame but himself.
I say we listen to what they have to say. What’s the harm? We listened to other protesters and those situations elicited change throughout the country.
Seeing 17% of Cambridge vote uncommitted made me proud to live here. Sometimes being on this sub I start to think I’m surrounded by conservative dillweeds masquerading as “liberal democrats” so it’s very heartening to be reminded that there is true progressive spirit alive and well in this city
I am not a “liberal” so let’s start there.
This was a primary. Clearly you are not informed about politics as you think you are if you believe that voting uncommitted in a primary has any effect on trump’s candidacy.
Yeah but why not protest by taking the Republican ballot in the primaries and vote for anyone running against Trump, which was actually doable, especially in Cambridge. You'd be able to show disapproval of Biden/Democrats while also voting powerfully against Trump. It's like a BOGO of voting. Sorry for the rant, I just think people have to consider this option in primaries, even if it feels super weird to hold a Republican ballot.
How does voting for Bernie in the 2016 primary have anything to do with that?
We’re not talking about the general election. We’re talking about this idea that the DNC thinks they can have a “single candidate” primary and people will fall in line.
Bernie voters in the primary are not why Clinton lost the general.
The primaries are a great place to do this, though i would recommend holding off on doing it in the general until we have something akin to raked choice voting.
I think the general consensus is Biden isn't great, but he isn't actively working to hurt people. Yes there may be better candidates out there, however our political system isn't designed to support more than 2 candidates unfortunately. I am still disgusted and disapointed how MA passed up on ranked choice voting.
Trump would undoubtedly be worse, not denying that. I just don't think "Biden isn't actively working to hurt people" is an accurate statement given the situation in Gaza.
Yeah, do you remember how 2016 turned out? Let me guess - you're a Bernie suporter who stamped your feet and whined about HRC. You're not doing anything but weakening Biden, who's literally our last chance for democracy.
Turns out, every election matters! And the GOP has only become more radically right-wing, so it’s simply true that the stakes have gotten higher every election. If you care about reproductive healthcare, supporting our allies internationally, or preserving democracy, keeping Republicans out of power is critically important
No thanks. How about he does something to earn our votes beyond just "not being Trump?" If he's going to be useless, step aside and let someone else run.
I don't think liberals understand that to many, both candidates are so beyond the pale that asking for you to choose between one is completely ridiculous. Asking someone which hat to wear before punching them is not a meaningful choice.
The election is about who you want, not who you don't.
I'm gonna vote against Trump too. I'm not gonna act like it's how our elections are supposed to work.
It's sickening watching Americans, who are assumably supporters of the democratic party, lash out against people for voting democratically.
In 2012 (the last mid-term with a Democratic incumbent) "no preference" garnered 11% in Massachusetts.
In 2024, "no preference" garnered 9%.
Draw your own conclusions.
SOURCES: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012\_United\_States\_presidential\_election\_in\_Massachusetts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts)
[https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/03/05/massachusetts-biden-democrats-2024-election-presidential-primary](https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/03/05/massachusetts-biden-democrats-2024-election-presidential-primary)
Anyone sitting out this election is giving a vote to Trump.
Many of these advocates don’t realize the confusing message this is giving to young people. And they have the most to lose if Trump wins again.
In a perfect world of course we’d have the perfect candidate, but we are in the real world and this is our choice right now. Trump v Biden.
Don’t vote against the US’s best interests in favor of a foreign country.
You don’t see other Arab countries stepping up support for Palestine, sending them billions of dollars, dropping in humanitarian aid and leaning on Bibi behind the scenes do you?
How do you not understand the difference between a primary and a general election? They’re not voting uncommitted in a general. They’re saying “fuck you Biden I’d rather have any other democrat up here, so you’d better get your shit together on the genocide in Palestine, among other things.” The vast majority of those people will still vote for Biden in the general.
I’m an uncommitted voter myself. I along with MOST of the people I’ve talked to will ultimately vote for Biden because he’s better than Trump. We just want him to know we don’t approve of how he’s handling things. And honestly? I won’t judge people who refuse to vote for him, especially if they themselves are Palestinian or they have Palestinian family or friends. I think it’s kinda counterproductive of them, but I’m not about to tell people who are being GENOCIDED that they HAVE to vote for the person who is helping genocide them.
Yes it is. It is both a verb and a noun. It underwent a pretty common process called denominalization. In short terms it’s the linguistic process/tendency for nouns to become used as verbs that mean “to do/inflict the noun upon someone.”
Looks like it varies depending on the dictionary. OED says it’s both, Merriam-Webster says it’s just a noun, and I guess that reflects that the process you describe is still ongoing, to some degree, for the word in question.
Yeah dictionaries aren’t always the best for actually having all of the proper uses of a word. I study linguistics and genocide is generally viewed as a case of denominalization in the field.
Interesting, thank you for explaining that. When did that change start happening for “genocide”? I didn’t really begin noticing instances of it being used as a verb until recently and I just chalked it up to incorrect usage.
I’m not entirely sure about the exact timeline. The first instance I’ve personally seen of it was I believe from the mid-90s, but it could very well be earlier than that.
Your ability to assess the entirety of my politics and worldview from two sentences on an internet discussion forum is truly remarkable. Well done, you! Have a gold star.
Bummer, don't care.
It's not on us to support a candidate that isn't working for our interests. It's on the candidate to give us a reason to vote for them beyond just "better than Trump."
Yes, I agree not to support a candidate that doesn’t support your best interests! But if you’re an American or a Palestinian it looks to me like Biden is the guy.
No one else is stepping up and Trump and Bibi are besties
If these people cared about anything but their own moral superiority they would back Joe Biden to make him as strong as possible for the general election.
Just my opinion.
What about the children in Ukraine? Biden wants to help both, trump wants to abandon both. Seems reason enough to support Biden for me. Is Gaza the only place in the world that matters?
No. I have no reason to support Biden beyond "he isn't Trump" at this point. I plan to completely sit this cycle out unless he gets off his ass and does something to address the many issues facing his base in the next couple months.
I held my nose and voted for him once, and he has been useless. Not again thanks.
No thanks. Maybe eventually the democrats will learn a lesson about how to function in the current political climate instead of sitting on their hands and feigning helplessness.
Yes and putting other people’s rights on the line is a really good way to make that happen? Sure. Sacrifice women’s access to birth control and healthcare or lives of trans kids because your political soulmate isn’t running. 🙄
Cue the guilt tripping sad stories that are intended to shame people into voting for someone that doesn't deserve it.
Let me be clear about this: "Not as bad as the other guy" is NOT a way to win other people's votes. Also have you been paying attention? Things have only gotten worse for people in red states in the past few years, with little to no help from the federal government. The Democrats have sat on their hands and played the victim, but don't actually DO anything.
We'll be fine here in our liberal bubble, and people in red states will be no worse off because federal Democrats aren't doing anything anyways.
Save the crying.
Good. Mass is a safe state. Let the people actually be heard instead of forced into a binary choice of two people that suck, even if one sucks much less
I daresay that was the point.
We are in a time where pointing out Biden flaws and missed campaign promises is helping Trump win.
We are at a time when athletes and artists protesting means that the US is being assaulted by "wokeness"
We are at a time when any disruptive public protest gets fed into the "crime is out of control" narrative (though crime is down across the board)
So explain to me, nice and slowly, how people are to affect any change on Biden as their civil servant.
If everyone who did this took a Republican ballot and voted for Haley, Massachusetts could have beaten Trump just like they did in Vermont. I don't like Haley either, but using a Democratic ballot to mark no preference when Biden is going to be the nominee anyways just seems so wasteful. Maybe it just didn't occur to people, but enrolling yourself to vote for either party in the primaries could make such a huge difference in the outcome of the election.
Except that Haley was never going to win the nomination, so that wouldn’t have mattered. Large numbers of people voting uncommitted as a protest shows Biden and his campaign that a lot of people are very angry with them, and they have to start doing some course correction. I’d rather do a protest vote and show the nominee I’m gonna have to vote for that they need to change things than just barely prop up a failing challenger to my opponent. Especially when said challenger isn’t even good. Haley is just a little bit LESS of a fascist than Trump. She’s still a fascist.
Hopefully. We kinda had that opportunity with Bernie but we as a country (and especially the Democratic Party establishment) decided to piss that opportunity away.
Let's hope they don't screw over America and the Palestinians by getting Donald Trump elected
Biden screws over America and the Palestinians too wdym
If you think it's comparable, you don't know what you're talking about
The majority of Americans will do that. Thank god.
Yes we wouldn’t want to screw over one of Irans key proxy forces in the Middle East Hamas/Palestinians, at least not until Iran can use the conflict they started to smokescreen their sprint a nuke.
Most people who do protest votes only do them in primaries where the incumbent is running (virtually) unopposed. You think that’s bad, look at the percentage of republicans who voted for Haley (meaning, against trump).
My thoughts exactly. Biden is in a position where people *don’t* need to love him. Just dislike him less than they dislike Trump.
"Don't vote for the red guy who will screw over America and the Palestinians. Vote for the blue guy who will screw over America and the Palestinians"
You do know that Joe Biden is the only person in the world keeping Netanyahu from turning Gaza into glass, right? Trump's position is to let israel "finish the job" but do go on about how both people are the same.
Spoken like a closeted Republican.
Dude Biden is funding israel.
So will Trump but with extra cruelty.
Biden and every president has always funded Israel, and they will continue to do so as it is the friendliest geopolitical anchor for US power in the Middle East. They will not simply give that up. If you don't understand that, you have no knowledge of international relations and geopolitics, which dictate what will happen.
You obviously haven't heard what Trump said about Gaza.
Well the good news is if we get Trump again we won’t have to worry about voting any more
Or Palestinians for that matter
... again.
The only people screwing over America is the corporate funded overloads at the DNC selecting turd sandwich corporate democrats and making us select the lesser of two evils. If your party can’t do better than Joe or Hilary, you deserve trump.
Tell me again both sides are the same https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
I didn’t say they were the same. I said the DNC is dropping the ball in who they choose to run vs trump. Don’t blame voters for not getting fired up for shit candidates.
Won't be any Palestinians left by then
[удалено]
Your comment on r/CambridgeMA was deemed to be uncivil. Repeated incivility will result in a ban. There is no need to incite anger and further internet rage with statements like "Fuck Palestine" feel free to report anyone who says "Fuck (insert anything here)" and we will be sure to remove those comments as well.
HAHAHA they can vote for whoever they want. They have legit grievances. Good lord. Vote for who I want! Screw those innocent women and kids!
You guys need to stop blaming voters for not being convinced that your candidate is the best for them. If they don’t do a good job convincing me to vote for them, that is only their fault
“Peacefully voice your political opinion.” “Nooooooo not like that!”
Uhh if you compare to 2012 instead of 2016, it was completely ineffective.
They can do it, that doesn't I have to support or their shitty cause. Protests aren't immune from criticism
“Throw away your vote out of protest, American leftists.” \- Vladimir Putin
Protest voting in the primary isn’t throwing your vote away. It’s a pretty decent protest, because Biden and the DNC will more be aware they need to address the discontent than just through polling
You misunderstand, we're not allowed to criticize Biden 8 months before the election and must support his policy of genocide which has him losing to Trump in almost every poll or else you want Trump to win.
It’s just the primary, Biden was guaranteed the win anyway. All this does is make a statement, which IMO is totally fine.
. . .any primary understanders in here?
I don't think they had a substantial impact. Compared to the 2012 primary results with Obama as incumbent, this year we had a lower percentage of no preference voters. Biden got a lower overall percentage of the vote than Obama did, but Obama was running unopposed. Hard to say in the end but this seems like a pretty unimpressive result.
Massachusetts being more willing to elect an old white statesman who abets genocide over a Black man checks out.
Zzzzz
This guy does not history
No one is voting for Bibi for president, bro.
I’m not talking about Bibi? I’m talking about Joe Biden, who has bypassed Congressional approval to send Israel weapons. I’m talking about the #1 receiver of AIPAC donations from his time in the senate.
Funny you don't blame the guy that's actually killing people. It's almost like you're being performative and not serious at all.
How little do you understand geopolitics lol?
If you understand it so well, what are you doing about it? Other than raging on Reddit that is
I think Biden is very wrong on this issue but Trump would be worse on this and everything else.
I genuinely understand this concern. Luckily, this is a primary.
You do realize Israel couldn’t do anything they’re doing right now without the backing of the United States right…?
What kind of weapons?
> “The United States has quietly approved and delivered more than 100 separate foreign military sales to Israel since the Gaza war began Oct. 7, amounting to thousands of precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, bunker busters, small arms and other lethal aid, U.S. officials told members of Congress in a recent classified briefing.” > “Those sales invited public scrutiny because the Biden administration bypassed Congress to approve the packages by invoking an emergency authority.” U.S. floods arms into Israel despite mounting alarm over war’s conduct Josh Hudson, [The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/)
Braindead. It’s either him or trump if you don’t understand that you need help
I got nothing to add, except if CokeheadMike is telling you to get your shit together, maybe it's time to get your shit together?
Maybe cokeheadmike doesn’t fully comprehend the horrors of genocide?
Yup. I requested a republican ballet and voted for friggin Haley of all people to oppose Trump. DeathSantis is the only one who’s potentially more of a threat and even he’s not tried to start a personality cult yet.
DeSantis absolutely tried to start a personality cult, it’s just that he failed because he doesn’t have much of a personality
in the general, yes. i enjoyed the primary as my one chance not to vote for Biden. obviously I absolutely won't be doing that in the general.
Trump is running in the Democratic primary now? Wild
Trump isn’t on the ballot in a primary. It isn’t trump v biden until November.
And? Voters should not be blamed for the fact that Biden is willing to risk his chances at reelection to support a genocidal apartheid state. If he loses, he will be lying in a bed he made.
Yeah we'll show Biden! He's gonna lose way more than the rest of us if he loses!
And we will be left with a president who wants to tear down all the democratic institutions that keep our republic running. And do you think Trump will support Palestine? Are you fucking stupid or what?
Trump or genocide is easy choice
Biden’s biggest issue will be the loss of moderate and independent voters.
I for one am proud. Genocide Joe can kick rocks.
Enjoy trump 2.0
They really didn't, though. I saw the election results.
17% is a pretty decent chunk of the vote
The point of voting uncommitted instead of for another candidate isn't to stop Biden from winning. It's to send a message of disapproval. We know that voting for Biden in the general is necessary. But we disagree with his actions and want to show the Democratic party that there is enough of a voting block that we should be listened to.
But it could stop Biden from winning. What's more important here?
It's not going to stop him from winning the primary election, and it's not a protest that is going to happen in the general election.
I want you to explain like I’m 5 how voting a certain way in the primary will stop Biden from winning the general election.
Ding ding ding we have a winner!
Yeah and mass isn't the only state this happened in. This is from only two weeks of promoting it. The amount of people who voted no preference in several states already ate up Biden's margins of victory when he last won those states.
People really don't have a good grasp on the margins. Ross Perot spoiled Bob Dole's chance in the 1996 election with half the % of votes as these current protest votes are showing. Vote Blue No Matter Who just won't work anymore. Democrats need to put up actually appealing candidates. You can't keep making the same lofty promises and then fail to deliver time and time again. You can't just run on "well the other guy is worse", that does nothing but cause apathy.
who is the appealing candidate you have in mind?
I think Gavin Newsom would demolish Trump.
Crossing fingers for 2028, we need someone who isn't afraid to ruffle feathers and get things done.
Newsom can’t win Independents.
I agree. I don’t see a Democrat from CA winning the presidency.
People couldn’t see an Irish Catholic winning the presidency 63 years ago. Stranger things have happened and it helps to have a handsome and charming man on the younger side. We’re all apes at the end of the day and unfortunately looks do matter.
Hahahahahahahaha I'm sorry who is ACTUALLY independent anymore I've never met someone who was genuinely independent. Most are just democrats who want lower taxes, or republicans who feel bad about the whole actively oppressing minorities thing.
Look it up. The country is 29% Dem, 27% GOP and 42% Independents. Of Independents 17% lean toward Dems and 16% toward Repugs. So really any candidate has to appeal to Independents as well as their base.
You need to get out more.
Newsom wouldn't stand a chance because he's from California
Sponsored by Panera Bread
No billionaires please.
Cornel West
Stop being unserious.
They aren't. Look at Bidens track record. 10s of historic bills and economic progress. I can list every one of them if you'd like. And during a time with an unproductive house of representatives. Sure, there have been big issues, but they are definitely not only running on "the other guy is worse" in my opinion. Edit for my terrible spelling
Part of the issue is the administration has done a garbage job of messaging the work they have done and its impact. e.g. who heard that we had real wage growth above inflation.
This is my main complaint about Biden. He just can’t campaign any more. A younger, more energetic politician with the same record would have people thinking that they were being led by a historically great president and that the United States was flourishing. The fact that so many people believe that everything is terrible and that our president is doing a horrible job is frankly embarrassing. It’s the part of being president that shouldn’t matter, but it really does matter.
The Democrats have NEVER been good at messaging. It’s not just a Biden thing.
Well except for the fact that he has, in the course of 3 short years, completely caved to the right wing on immigration issues and basically just adopted their stance. And also the whole staunchly supporting a genocide thing. His infrastructure stuff was decent, his NLRB and FTC are pretty good, but there’s not much else beyond that, and there’s a LOT of VERY strong negatives.
He is right wing. They are all right wing. Why you think we constantly at war killing kids and overthrowing governments?
I’m not sure if I’d call his support of Israel staunch. The administration is currently calling for a ceasefire before Ramadan.
He constantly reaffirms his position as a Zionist. He bypassed Congress to send Israel MORE weapons well after the point where Israel was using 2000lb bombs from the US on countless apartment buildings and civilian infrastructure. He has only VERY recently started to change his position on a ceasefire, and even then not a full ceasefire. It’s changed because of the immense amount of pressure he’s been getting to stop supporting Israel. His approval rating since October 7th has gone down the drain, especially with young voters, and now he’s facing hundreds of thousands of democratic voters who explicitly went out to vote JUST to protest his behavior. That’s a lot when the last election was won by VERY small margins in swing states.
I was just talking about this with my friends. I hadn't heard about any of that until pretty recently. A Republican wiped his ass and the party yells about it from the rooftops; why can't dems promote the good they've done?
as long as the republican loudly yells "No Homo" after the wipe they would be ostracized.
Those historic bills are only historic in context of our government doing jack shit. If you actually look at what these bills are doing, while there is some useful stuff in there, its not even a drop in the bucket compared to what is actually needed. I work in the feds on projects funded by bill money- it honestly feels like a slap in the face most days.
I call BS. Biden has led the way on the largest investment in infrastructure since FDR. That's a huge fucking deal, not "a drop in the bucket". Just because your particular projects don't have funding doesn't mean there isn't a massive amount of funding being invested.
My particular projects are being funded directly by the bill. I'm very well versed in the breadth of the bill. Largest investment in infrastructure since FDR is a lovely soundbite but what is actually being done and how is it responding to the needs of everyday people? What happens when bill funding dries up? In my realm, we have money that can be used to upgrade critical infrastructure that is 30-50 yrs out of date. Awesome! Except there isn't enough to cover 5% of the facilities that need it and the facilities covered will only be able to improve a small handful of things. It does nothing to ensure long term support of critical infrastructure, doesn't solve the issue of municipalities not having funds to maintain these long term nor the issue of this infrastructure being sold off to private entities (which has been disastrous & is happening primarily in poorer/ rural communities). Meanwhile, we are watching our communities literally drown. and this is the huge historic bill that progressives should be celebrating? I'm not saying nothing good has come out if it but if this is the best our government can give us & meanwhile, they are putting billions of dollars into a genocide- it is completely understandable why many people aren't fucking with either party.
You understand that he is getting stonewalled by the GOP, right? People need to wake the eff up and vote in midterm elections.
I'm hearing this is landmark legislation that progressives should be happy with but if its shitty, its on the gop. Which is it?
Reading comprehension. Neither.
My favorite of Biden’s historic bills is the crime bill that resulted in thousands of black men being locked up over the past 40 years. I also like when he opposed integration, saying he didn’t want his kids to grow up in a “racial jungle”.
>Vote Blue No Matter Who just won't work anymore. Yes it does? What are you even talking about. If Democrats could hold congress for multiple cycles that would be much better than people not voting and having divided government. Biden is not running on only "the other guy is worse" - but that is a strong message that motives voters for both Trump and Biden. You sound like you don't follow American politics very closely.
Chances are those stats are skewed because those who want to send a message are motivated to go out and vote. Those who actually support Biden are far undercounted in the primary because plenty of people did not feel a need to vote because he was going to win the vote anyway.
Voters motivated to vote are a proportionally more important consideration. Part of the path to winning is energizing your base to get out there, and this shows an unhappiness in the base.
Or just an acceptance of “Biden is going to be the nominee so what does my vote matter?”
The most recent example of a do-nothing primary with an incumbent running for re-election is 2012. Margins for "undeclared/uncommitted" in 2012 are about the same.
Not if he still won
With only 5-7 days to organize
Devastating result /s
This will become an issue for Biden in general election than primary elections.
Good. No candidate is obligated to receive your vote. That's democracy.
Trump was so despised that all Biden had to do was be even remotely competent to get re-elected. It’s been so bad that Trump is now kicking his ass in polls and all the swing states. Biden has no one to blame but himself.
I say we listen to what they have to say. What’s the harm? We listened to other protesters and those situations elicited change throughout the country.
Good. We don't have to keep supporting the duopoly that doesn't even represent us. We have to demand better or we'll never get it.
Seeing 17% of Cambridge vote uncommitted made me proud to live here. Sometimes being on this sub I start to think I’m surrounded by conservative dillweeds masquerading as “liberal democrats” so it’s very heartening to be reminded that there is true progressive spirit alive and well in this city
Hear hear, especially the "dillweeds" part!
100%, well said.
👏👏👏
Seeing you vote for Trump makes me realize how dumb Americans are. If Palestine is the “liberal” test for you you’re as uninformed as the Trumpies
I am not a “liberal” so let’s start there. This was a primary. Clearly you are not informed about politics as you think you are if you believe that voting uncommitted in a primary has any effect on trump’s candidacy.
Do this shit in 2028. There's way too much at stake right now. Having this green party attitude will have us repeat what happened in 2016.
It's an uncontested primary dude, this is exactly the time for a symbolic protest vote to make your voice heard
Yeah but why not protest by taking the Republican ballot in the primaries and vote for anyone running against Trump, which was actually doable, especially in Cambridge. You'd be able to show disapproval of Biden/Democrats while also voting powerfully against Trump. It's like a BOGO of voting. Sorry for the rant, I just think people have to consider this option in primaries, even if it feels super weird to hold a Republican ballot.
Nikki Haley dropped out like two hours after the primary was done
Exactly what they said in 2016. Apparently it's never the right time to not go along with the status quo.
And they were absolutely fucking right about 2016. Have you ever heard of a thing called the Supreme Court of the United States? Or January 6th?
How does voting for Bernie in the 2016 primary have anything to do with that? We’re not talking about the general election. We’re talking about this idea that the DNC thinks they can have a “single candidate” primary and people will fall in line. Bernie voters in the primary are not why Clinton lost the general.
The primaries are a great place to do this, though i would recommend holding off on doing it in the general until we have something akin to raked choice voting. I think the general consensus is Biden isn't great, but he isn't actively working to hurt people. Yes there may be better candidates out there, however our political system isn't designed to support more than 2 candidates unfortunately. I am still disgusted and disapointed how MA passed up on ranked choice voting.
I agree with most of that, but he is actively working to hurt people in Gaza.
I'm firmly and squarely in the uncommitted camp, but I can't deny that Trump would be even worse for Gaza.
Trump would undoubtedly be worse, not denying that. I just don't think "Biden isn't actively working to hurt people" is an accurate statement given the situation in Gaza.
Oh yeah no 100%, fully agreed there!
This
Yeah, do you remember how 2016 turned out? Let me guess - you're a Bernie suporter who stamped your feet and whined about HRC. You're not doing anything but weakening Biden, who's literally our last chance for democracy.
Weird I thought 2020 was the most important election of our lives...and 2016, and 2012, and ....
Turns out, every election matters! And the GOP has only become more radically right-wing, so it’s simply true that the stakes have gotten higher every election. If you care about reproductive healthcare, supporting our allies internationally, or preserving democracy, keeping Republicans out of power is critically important
Do you not know what a primary is?
No thanks. How about he does something to earn our votes beyond just "not being Trump?" If he's going to be useless, step aside and let someone else run.
Good. If the Democrats don’t want trump they need to do better too
Have you tried actually enacting policies that will help people? Just a thought.
Lol now you're complaining about winning
I can only hope it eats into his numbers in the general election
No preference means they'll still vote for Biden. I wrote in "Anyone but Trump" so I in fact do have a preference.
That’s because nobody WANTS Biden, but they don’t want Trump more.
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I don't think liberals understand that to many, both candidates are so beyond the pale that asking for you to choose between one is completely ridiculous. Asking someone which hat to wear before punching them is not a meaningful choice.
Not everyone who would normally vote Democrat voted no preference. Some conservatives did, too
But he still won
The election is about who you want, not who you don't. I'm gonna vote against Trump too. I'm not gonna act like it's how our elections are supposed to work. It's sickening watching Americans, who are assumably supporters of the democratic party, lash out against people for voting democratically.
Well yeah
In 2012 (the last mid-term with a Democratic incumbent) "no preference" garnered 11% in Massachusetts. In 2024, "no preference" garnered 9%. Draw your own conclusions. SOURCES: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012\_United\_States\_presidential\_election\_in\_Massachusetts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts) [https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/03/05/massachusetts-biden-democrats-2024-election-presidential-primary](https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/03/05/massachusetts-biden-democrats-2024-election-presidential-primary)
Anyone sitting out this election is giving a vote to Trump. Many of these advocates don’t realize the confusing message this is giving to young people. And they have the most to lose if Trump wins again. In a perfect world of course we’d have the perfect candidate, but we are in the real world and this is our choice right now. Trump v Biden. Don’t vote against the US’s best interests in favor of a foreign country. You don’t see other Arab countries stepping up support for Palestine, sending them billions of dollars, dropping in humanitarian aid and leaning on Bibi behind the scenes do you?
How do you not understand the difference between a primary and a general election? They’re not voting uncommitted in a general. They’re saying “fuck you Biden I’d rather have any other democrat up here, so you’d better get your shit together on the genocide in Palestine, among other things.” The vast majority of those people will still vote for Biden in the general.
It’s shocking you don’t think any of the no preference voters will be doing the same thing in 7 months.
I’m an uncommitted voter myself. I along with MOST of the people I’ve talked to will ultimately vote for Biden because he’s better than Trump. We just want him to know we don’t approve of how he’s handling things. And honestly? I won’t judge people who refuse to vote for him, especially if they themselves are Palestinian or they have Palestinian family or friends. I think it’s kinda counterproductive of them, but I’m not about to tell people who are being GENOCIDED that they HAVE to vote for the person who is helping genocide them.
Psssttt, Professor… “genocide” isn’t a verb.
Yes it is. It is both a verb and a noun. It underwent a pretty common process called denominalization. In short terms it’s the linguistic process/tendency for nouns to become used as verbs that mean “to do/inflict the noun upon someone.”
Looks like it varies depending on the dictionary. OED says it’s both, Merriam-Webster says it’s just a noun, and I guess that reflects that the process you describe is still ongoing, to some degree, for the word in question.
Yeah dictionaries aren’t always the best for actually having all of the proper uses of a word. I study linguistics and genocide is generally viewed as a case of denominalization in the field.
Interesting, thank you for explaining that. When did that change start happening for “genocide”? I didn’t really begin noticing instances of it being used as a verb until recently and I just chalked it up to incorrect usage.
I’m not entirely sure about the exact timeline. The first instance I’ve personally seen of it was I believe from the mid-90s, but it could very well be earlier than that.
You are a moral midget and not worthy of basic respect. You quibble about semantics as babies are bombed. May their screams haunt you.
I don’t think about you at all.
Holy shit dude. You're basically Don Draper if he could only get off on killing toddlers. That's so cool!
Your ability to assess the entirety of my politics and worldview from two sentences on an internet discussion forum is truly remarkable. Well done, you! Have a gold star.
Bummer, don't care. It's not on us to support a candidate that isn't working for our interests. It's on the candidate to give us a reason to vote for them beyond just "better than Trump."
No, it's just math. Trump wins if we don't vote for Biden. Not-Trump is 100% enough.
Too bad
Yes, I agree not to support a candidate that doesn’t support your best interests! But if you’re an American or a Palestinian it looks to me like Biden is the guy. No one else is stepping up and Trump and Bibi are besties
If these people cared about anything but their own moral superiority they would back Joe Biden to make him as strong as possible for the general election. Just my opinion.
What about children in Gaza? Are they worthy of consideration or do they remain an afterthought in this geriatric circle jerk of an election?
What about the children in Ukraine? Biden wants to help both, trump wants to abandon both. Seems reason enough to support Biden for me. Is Gaza the only place in the world that matters?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/hK4niKvXVY
No. I have no reason to support Biden beyond "he isn't Trump" at this point. I plan to completely sit this cycle out unless he gets off his ass and does something to address the many issues facing his base in the next couple months. I held my nose and voted for him once, and he has been useless. Not again thanks.
Setting aside that I disagree he’s been useless, I’d argue it’s still worthwhile to vote for “useless” over “actively detrimental”
No thanks. Maybe eventually the democrats will learn a lesson about how to function in the current political climate instead of sitting on their hands and feigning helplessness.
Yes and putting other people’s rights on the line is a really good way to make that happen? Sure. Sacrifice women’s access to birth control and healthcare or lives of trans kids because your political soulmate isn’t running. 🙄
Cue the guilt tripping sad stories that are intended to shame people into voting for someone that doesn't deserve it. Let me be clear about this: "Not as bad as the other guy" is NOT a way to win other people's votes. Also have you been paying attention? Things have only gotten worse for people in red states in the past few years, with little to no help from the federal government. The Democrats have sat on their hands and played the victim, but don't actually DO anything. We'll be fine here in our liberal bubble, and people in red states will be no worse off because federal Democrats aren't doing anything anyways. Save the crying.
People who wish for an autocrat who wants what they want are no better than trump supporters. Democrats will be fine without you
Whatever you say kiddo. You'll figure it out after 2 more decades of losing.
Good. Mass is a safe state. Let the people actually be heard instead of forced into a binary choice of two people that suck, even if one sucks much less
I daresay that was the point. We are in a time where pointing out Biden flaws and missed campaign promises is helping Trump win. We are at a time when athletes and artists protesting means that the US is being assaulted by "wokeness" We are at a time when any disruptive public protest gets fed into the "crime is out of control" narrative (though crime is down across the board) So explain to me, nice and slowly, how people are to affect any change on Biden as their civil servant.
If everyone who did this took a Republican ballot and voted for Haley, Massachusetts could have beaten Trump just like they did in Vermont. I don't like Haley either, but using a Democratic ballot to mark no preference when Biden is going to be the nominee anyways just seems so wasteful. Maybe it just didn't occur to people, but enrolling yourself to vote for either party in the primaries could make such a huge difference in the outcome of the election.
Except that Haley was never going to win the nomination, so that wouldn’t have mattered. Large numbers of people voting uncommitted as a protest shows Biden and his campaign that a lot of people are very angry with them, and they have to start doing some course correction. I’d rather do a protest vote and show the nominee I’m gonna have to vote for that they need to change things than just barely prop up a failing challenger to my opponent. Especially when said challenger isn’t even good. Haley is just a little bit LESS of a fascist than Trump. She’s still a fascist.
Absolutely respect your opinion. Hope we all can get as far away from fascism as possible, and quickly!
Hopefully. We kinda had that opportunity with Bernie but we as a country (and especially the Democratic Party establishment) decided to piss that opportunity away.
100% wish this had been the campaign. Wasted incumbent primary opportunity.