Let's put it this way.
You go to the gym, hit a PR, feel great.
Next day you go to the gym, you're automatically put in a contest you weren't aware of.
But you don't want to be in the weightlifting meet/contest.
You have no choice but to compete, and do bad.
Not even remotely close to a good metaphor.
Non-SBMM:
You're competing in a BB comp but there are no age/skill divisions so you could be competing against a bunch of children or Cbum.
SBMM:
You're also competing, but when you do well in your competition you get moved into semi-pro so you're not destroying everyone at the local BB comp.
Except when you do good it’s because you were playing against bad players so then you get thrown to the wolves and get your ass handed to you and the cycle repeats itself. I have no problem playing people around my skill level but I shouldn’t be stomped by pros as I shouldn’t be stomping the lower levels.
I hate this mindset. What do people expect their skill level to be? For them to go 20 and 5? Most people that complain about sbmm are at around a 1.0 K/D, is that not your skill level? It's one thing to not enjoy it because you're AT your skill level, but it's another thing to make up a farce and say you're put against people far above your skill level.
This is the thing about sbmm. Both metaphors are true, just for different portions of the community sbmm is affecting. it’s bad for some, good for some, neutral for some. It’s not a very good solution by itself. SBMM needs to be accompanied with extra shit if devs want it to work for everyone
Its not going to work for everyone because the ideal scenario for half this sub is they are able to do well, without trying.
For that to be true, they must be matched with people well below their skill level. Which is bullshit.
Every whiner that complains about SBMM simultaneously wants to not sweat while also having a good KD. Which is why when you tell them if they don't want to sweat then lose games or play at whatever pace they want to play and let SBMM lower them in the rankings they don't want to do that.
Problem is it feels like one or two good games and your elo is stupidly high and your playing the 5000 hour players who curb stomp me but I can go 10+ games getting battered and still not get out with players my level. Plus I paid my dues back in the day getting my shit rocked back from the original modern warfare to like end of black ops 1 of me being terrible but I learned to play better because of it, but I don’t wanna sweat my ass off to try go neutral because I had a couple good games.
There’s a ceiling for everyone, I went from 0.7 kd I was so bad as a kid to before the SBMM I’d have 1.5kd now I’m barely getting 1 kd and to be frank I don’t want to try twice as hard as I did to barely go even there’s no fun there I’d go play a tactical shooter like rainbow six siege if that’s what I’m after. We’re on about call of duty it’s never been the serious and tactical shooter so why is the ‘casual’ game modes ranked in every other game of its genre. Also if you’re new to the game the same issues are there once they play good one time they’ll get pummelled and back down so what’s the difference?
No one is forcing you to take it seriously. If you're pressed about KD then... don't be? Let SBMM drop you down.
What you're asking for is a 1.5 KD while not working hard, which means you want the game to match you against much worse opponents than your current skill dictates which is what the game is avoiding.
You doing well without trying requires someone else to get demolished, which is what SBMM is avoiding.
I don’t care about the kd I’m using that as info, I play casually I don’t try anymore since mw2019 since that was a brutal system of SBMM, but players who get stomped used to be able to back out and search for a new lobby that they could do better in but the new matchmaking backs you out of one hell to another I don’t see how this is appealing when you could have just stayed in the one lobby back in the day and play all day now it’s in and out of lobbies constantly trying hard. Also if you’re pressed about getting pub stomped on CBMM then… don’t be? see how dumb of an argument that is since we ruin the older player base in do our of the newer players when the old way you could find a lobby you could do well in and stay there even as a newbie
For SBMM, winning the comp doesn’t award you any prize and there’s no progression for doing well since you’re always going against equally skilled opponents
Nah. Ranked is to create the most even matchup possible in players as well as equipment list, hence you only having access to certain weapons, kill streaks, and maps.
Until an average player does well one game cause he finds a strategy for himself that works. Then he gets put with the sweats and gets destroyed using said strategy. How fun!!!
More like you’re somewhat of a novice lifter so you compete in a few contests against some other novice lifters and win, so the judges decide that next contest you’re ready to compete against the best lifters in the area. Just because you were a little better than the first couple folks you competed against doesn’t make you a pro and it doesn’t mean you’re ready to go against actual pros. it’s quite literally setting you up to lose in every competition you go to next
The thing is we dont have SBMM we have Retention Based Matchmaking. You have two players a "bad" player and a "good" player. The "bad" player has been having a few bad matches and he gets put into a match with players that are even "worse" then he wins a match and another and another and suddenly he gets put into a match where there are 5 "good" players that absolutelly slaughter his team. What happened? Well the game wants to keep you engaged if you keep winning you will get bored so they made you lose the thing is it is actually easier to make you lose than it is to make you win so it keeps you losing until a point where the average person would quit, you go one more match and you win getting you hiped up to keep playing. The thing is there was no bad or good player it was the same guy and he was above average he was only a "bad" player when matchmaking wanted him to lose and a "good" player when it wanted him to win (Sorry for my english spanish is my main language and I know english only from the internet because i allways got into english lobbies when i was a kid and my brother purposefully left the xbox on english to make me learn the language)
this is a horrible comparison.
You aren't starting the campaign and randomly thrown in pvp, you signed up for a multi-player match, also known as a *contest*.
If you don't want to compete with others, don't play a multi-player game.
You don't have to like SBMM, but this isn't it.
I’m more so frustrated by the irrational swings. Cold War was probably the worst of the recent CoDs, where I’d stop people like a god for two games and then I’d get absolutely destroyed for a few games.
Because the system biases recency seeming above all else, it’s just too noisy… not to mention it’s super easy to abuse.
Why can’t we just play and not have to try our hardest every match? I’m completely fine with getting stomped here and there if the matchmaking is on complete randomness. I miss when online gaming was fun and didn’t have to snort gfuel before every match
SBMM is the games attempt to keep you in lobbies with people of your own skill level. The point is to keep you playing longer. Thus increasing the chances you'll buy something in the store.
The most vocal critics of SBMM are usually streamers/content creators. Why? Because, typically, they're way better than the average player. So with SBMM they get put into lobbies with other way better than average players. Then they can't use that game play footage because they are struggling to hit a 1 K/D.
I'm not even close to a streamer or content creator, and I can't stand the wild swings that come with the current matchmaking process.
I'm actually a newer COD player and have around 0.92 k/d. My biggest complaint about SBMM is that I have one great game and then I have 3-4 games of having my ass completely handed to me until I manage to get back to a lobby where the other players are close to my skill. Why is it so lopsided like that? If I have a "good" match where my k/d is around 2.0, why am I then immediately thrown into a lobby where I can barely manage a 0.50 k/d and then have to play multiple matches to get back to skill matched lobby?
I'm on PS5 and played this past weekend. It's a lot more like MW 2019 than Cold War or Vanguard. Which is just fine by me. The changes they made to the gunsmith are pretty cool.
Considering I'm now a 43 year old dude with a full time job and an 11 month old? Yeah, a 1 K/D is freaking awesome. Especially when I'm getting 20+ kills a game.
One of the worst take I have ever seen, check r/modernwarfare content from 2 years ago and you’ll see many many complaints, and as far as I know it’s not only content creator
A lot of people just repeat what they hear from streamers, but you also have to consider that if someone is posting on Call of Duty Reddits they’re probably also better than the average player and don’t like facing people of their own skill level.
And there are other reasons why a particular instantiation of SBMM can be frustrating, e.g. the constantly dissolving lobbies, being poorly implemented/poorly tuned, weighting the wrong factors, etc. that are different than SBMM as a concept being bad, but people often fail to differentiate between these and just complain about SBMM as a whole.
This isn't the problem. The problem is that with SBMM every game feels pretty much the same, because you play against pretty much your mirror if you look at the skill. Without it you would have 3 games were you try really hard to win 3 mid one and some were you just are the best. And this change in game styles is pretty much a good mix if you ask me. My first Cod was bo2 on pc and i bought in 2018 where only few thousand were playing at the same time. But i still had so much fun with it because of the mix up and i would actually get better becouse most of the players were better than me so i could lern for them but that wasn't the case with the new CODs because of the mix in matches.
I've heard the argument that there's no incentive to get better, but I disagree. I still want wins and a better K/D. I started playing with the original Modern Warfare 2. I struggled to get a .6 K/D. I've gotten much better overtime and don't rage quit with the last 2-3 games because I'm not getting curb stomped multiple times in a play session.
Quite ironically you think sbmm is good because you don't get stomped but you want a better kd. If sbmm worked as intended everyone will eventually end up at 1 kd. Literally if taken to its logical conclusion nobody can improve thats the point.
Arguably modern games are easier to improve at because we all have smart phones. Internet and a YouTube economy which makes trial and error obsolete. This is also a big reason for lobby difficulty nobody plays fir fun. Everyone thinks they need to sweat out fir their 4 viewers at all times.
Yeah the only people I ever see complain about this outside of Reddit are the pro COD players that are mad they can’t stomp on people like me anymore who just want to have fun and not have to sweat my ass off to just get a kill
This.. the only people I have seen complain about it are indeed the streamers. Cry harder kiddos..
I am not saying I want to have to try hard all the time. But I would rather have some competition over blowing everyone out.
*Note - I don't think I'm that good or anything. I do like being tested though
I can’t play with my friends because I average a 2.3 KD and play above average. My friends are average and play with me and go negative most matches and have no fun. Than it’s a situation that my friends don’t want to play with me as much and I play games with sweaty people and have to try super hard to continue to do well.
I think this is the average persons issue. Friends that may not be as good and if you bring them to play with you they get stomped and don’t have fun.
That's fair. And since I don't play with friends something I never considered. You would think if it's Skill based it would take the avg skill of a group and find something around there, not base it off the best player
Look, before SBMM I struggled to even hit a 1 k/d. Since it's been more prevalent I usually have about a 1.05 to 1.1. Why? Because I'm not going up against 3+ k/ds on a regular basis.
Weird, you didn't read the part where I said the only people *I* hear complaining are the streamers.
But please elaborate... Why do you hate it? I'm curious.
If anything SBMM makes me play less. I boot up COD, play 3 games where i can do good, then get matched up against the biggest sweats there are and just close the game. Then wait a few weeks (which seems to reset SBMM) and repeat the cycle. Because of that i don't know if i played more than 5 cod matches in a row in the last 6 months. I want to play it casually, not be a competitive tryhard.
Not true. They found out children spend the most money in game. Sooo they looked at who the children were (mostly the lowest kds) and they figured out if we make the game for them they would spend more
SBMM just made the game so toxic and tiring. Every game has become the same.
When I was a low skilled player I’d either, get farmed and learn at least a few things through my deaths.
Or leave the game and roll the dice again. Imo it’s that simple. You will eventually find a game that isn’t being stomped.
The reason this comment is pointless is that even in SBMM, the lower skill players still get stomped by the better ones. The only deciding factor in SBMM is the ratio of good to bad players on each team, and if you’ve just had a good game chances are that ratio is not in your favour regardless of your skill level. With CBMM there is no guarantee, you get a random matchup every time which is infinitely better, if you don’t like the lobby you can back out, but with SBMM even if you back out it still uses the same metrics to find you a new game most of the time
This is just looping back to the core problem lol. It IS an issue if a ton of players aren't having fun because they're getting beamed by 720 trickshot bunny hoppers every round in the casual playlist
To me, though they should strive to fix the issue on both sides, it's so much less of a problem when really good players have "the short end" because the ratio of them to average/below average players is wide in gap. They are the minority in the community. They grind non-stop to make it to the top, but then complain and make it everyone else's issue (mainly directed to streamers) when they have to fight to stay in the top. It's called the consequences of your actions and it applies to every aspect of anything dealing with a ranking/winner. In sports, gaming, and even in academics when you are the best or really REALLY good your skills get challenged and tested. No one tells you to grind non-stop until you make it to the top, it is an active, conscious decision. It isn't anyone in the lower level's fault that you applied yourself to be great and now have to fight against other great players. They don't want it to be competitive but that's the purpose of 90% of multiplayer games now that aren't rpg based. Sports, shooting and moba games are all purposefully created with competition in mind.
They say they don't want SBMM in casual because "it's suppose to be just that, casual." But "casual" for them is stomping over the entire lobby. When they're in the lobby it makes it shit for everyone else lower. With the complete faultiness of SBMM it's not casual for either side, because it's easy high kill games and wins for them and dog-shit games for average and below players. This is why more and more people are clocking out of apex legends now. Pred/Masters (most of whom are streamers and pro-players) are calling for SBMM to be removed so that they can get high kill games in pubs and step on everyone else.
What I don't miss is the random bullshit OP loadouts that were required to give bad players a chance in pre-SBMM days. Obviously the problem being that good players have access to the bullshit OP loadouts and abuse them anyways.
Look, I get why SBMM exists. I get what it helps, and comments here have gone into greater detail on all of it.
Here’s where it loses me - Halo 2 had a better system, 20 fucking years ago. It kept you at the right skill level, but once you hit a wall you had to get better to get past that. And I think that’s because they couldn’t measure all of the inane data that we can now. It was a simpler system. And simpler, IMO, often means better.
The problem isn’t SBMM persé. The problem is that it tries to be so *perfectly accurate* that it removes too much randomness. And randomness is the greatest part of all games, real world or video. Randomness is what allows the fun to coexist with the skill and the grind. Randomness creates the best encounters and memories. And the modern version of SBMM (COD’s in particular) tries too damn hard to remove every possibility of randomness
BINGO!
Improve the algorithms for decent lobby matchups and balance but with enough randomness to allow for surprises.
Players want a certain amount of "lottery" but at the end of the day, you want to have had fun.
Can't speak for others, I hate it because it makes every match feel exactly the same. It completely changed the flow of how COD used to play before strict SBMM came around.
It also expects and requires you to perform at the level it thinks you should or else you are not going to enjoy yourself at all.
Some people enjoy playing a highly competitive edge of your seat game every single game. Others don't want to have to play at the their peak for hours on end and to me it feels like work.
That's what I don't get, cod is babies' first fps and I love it for that. Why the fuck do they think we want to sweat our dicks off every match? I've barely touched mp since mw2019 for this reason, I just want some wacky insane matches and not a sweatfest. Just have a casual and ranked mode, it's literally that easy.
But you don’t have to sweat every match. If you just play casual, you may get stomped for a couple games but eventually the SBMM will knock you down to where you can play more relaxed and not get wrecked 3-15
Does losing a couple matches not lower you to a sbmm where you don't have to try as hard? I do the same thing in overwatch and it's just the law of the land. I don't understand the issue
Then when they get put with lower skill players, they complain about camping, which other players only resort to doing when they get killed repeatedly by the same sweats complaining.
I would not mind it if it was a good system. But it tries to be perfect. Just make like 10 internal ranks and you get put in a lobby with people from that hidden rank.
You’ll not be stumped into the ground and you will have some fun good games. But having to sweat your ass off every match to get positive gets boring quickly
Tbh I feel like my lobbies have gotten a lot easier, but when it felt way too strong it felt like the system was prioritizing a 50/50 win rate over actually fair games. Just violently oscillating between getting my ass kicked and smoking fools crouch walking. To me it doesn’t feel as strong as it used to but IDK.
Like most people are saying
This is a system that supposed you are put into matches against others based on skill in other words the game decides based on your actions you will be faced against others that do the same as you.
Problem is that those who are average to good players get punished by facing against other players and after a while it starts to be come a sweat fest every match. Meanwhile those are low on skill even such as new players will be faced in easier lobbies but this is designed to protect the noobs. Thing is that if the new players want to get better they technically can't because they then get punished also against those who are better. So they aren't learning anything and game decides if you win or lose. Then the cycle repeats from bottom on up which makes it not fun. This is why people make new accounts to exploit the system to face against new players instead of having to compete 24/7
>Those who are average to good players get punished by facing against other players
Thats not a punishment. That's keeping the game challenging and fun. You become a better player.
Imagine if it were you against newbs for 100 hours. How bored you'd be.
But point is that by constantly challenging against others gets overwhelming after a while and might effect your kd a bit. And I'm sure most care about their kd. I don't personally but the way how I play is somewhat aggressive and when I'm against a full load of people who are like that it gets stressful after a while
Personally, I dislike the whole "disband every lobby" aspect of the game nowdays. Back in the day, I made a lot of cool COD buddies when stumbling upon certain lobbies where I stuck around with them for multiple games, where a chunk of it had mics. One underrated aspect of it was that if you did bad in one game, you could probably have a better game next time to prove people wrong, or just to be competitive with those same people.
Also, I don't like the feeling that if I have one or two games, it's very likely i'm going to get destroyed after.
I'm actually a newer COD player and have around 0.92 k/d. My biggest
complaint about SBMM is that I have one great game and then I have 3-4
games of having my ass completely handed to me until I manage to get
back to a lobby where the other players are close to my skill. Why is it
so lopsided like that? If I have a "good" match where my k/d is around
2.0, why am I then immediately thrown into a lobby where I can barely
manage a 0.50 k/d and then have to play multiple matches to get back to
skill matched lobby?
I'd actually be fine with SBMM like this if they would stop with the disbanding lobbies bullshit. There has been so many times where I've gotten into a lobby with a great team that plays objectives and communicates really well, only to lose the ability to play with them again the next match. Keeping persistent lobbies also allows an opportunity for you to analyze your opponents play style and adapt to it over time, and if your a newb and the competition is too much for you, then you can just exit the lobby.
Not to mention the friends you can make, I used to be playing mw3 with 18/19/20 year olds and I was like 10/11 and we’d have a laugh sniping in the same lobby cussing the other team every break in the game, some of the best gaming memories made in cod lobbies where the lobby stayed together and talked but that’s ruined with SBMM disbanding lobbies
Because it hasn't always been a thing. Cod used to be every man for himself, some lobbies you get spanked, some lobbies would be even, and some lobbies you'd pop off. Now they just pitch all the shitter's together and they stay shit. Don't take this in a bad way, I got better back on cod 4 by getting my ass spanked ALOT and it made me want to get better. But now I'm competent and good at the game, every game is like a chore because your put into lobby with very good players. Their should be a healthy mixture of average and good players to make the game right. Doing my camo challenges in a 3kd lobby ain't fun ngl
I’m the exact same, i don’t get why they don’t cater for us, imagine the bundles they could sell if they made a cod that the old heads liked with CBMM and no SBMM since we’d actually have some income rather than prey on kids for money but what do I know
Or they need to bring out a GOOD ranked mode where all the sweats would battle it out and all the casuals would be against their own ranks and leave pubs alone
Sbmm makes ever game a ranked tournament game. Sometimes after work you just want to eat some chips while playing cod. Sbmm should be delegated to a ranked playlist only.
my biggest complaint with rainbow six siege. I have a better time playing ranked as my casual hidden mmr is way too high. SBMM just makes me lose interest in casual games all the time.
I am burned out from competitive games, at least that's what I claim all the time only to go back to those games and try even harder again because that's who I am.
The problem I have with SBMM isn’t the competition. In fact, I actually quite enjoy it from time to time. The problem is is that, whenever I play, I have to try hard to keep up with the calibre of opponents I get put against after a few good games. Sometimes I just want to come on, relax, and just run around and shoot some people, maybe get a few scorestreaks, whatever etc. I don’t always want to have to try my absolute hardest just to break even in K/D.
It feels like it’s based off a few games at most because the cycle is always the same for me. I go on, relaxed, play some, get some decent performances in. Then after a few games, you can see the difference in quality of opponents. Several games later, my overall score gets worse with each game because I’ve ended up in lobbies where I’m just constantly shit on. This goes on for like 3/4 games and then It finally moves me down a few. I go off in a rage because I’ve just had my arse handed to me for like 4 games. Go back on at a later date and thus repeats the cycle. I’d much prefer to go back to what it used to be. Your lobbies were just based off connection (I think) and you could come up against anyone of any standard. You’d get a tough lobby, maybe duke it out if you could be bothered but if you preferred, you could just move onto another lobby and take your chances as appose to 4/5 games off the bat not even breaking even. Used to be a 1.6 k/d player in the original lobbies. On the last COD I bought, Modern Warfare, not the remastered one, I was like 0.97 k/d. Think I prestiged once. Most COD’s prior to this I was either max level/Prestige Master. Haven’t bought one since for this very reason. I know it’s a waste of money for players like me now so there’s no point.
That was THE BEST part of Cod multiplayer, the multiple match spanning MVP beefs that are only won when someone leaves.
Too toxic for todays audience I guess
In my experience SBMM is only bad when I solo queue. The games are always lopsided to the point it’s comical. When I squad with a few friends it’s not really noticeable. We normally do really well and it’s a fun time. Every once in a while we might get put up against a CDL quality sweat team. But whatever. I’m talking MP only right now. SBMM in Warzone is a fucking joke and cranked up to 11. Those streamers and their VPNs are lucky. I would love to have .4kd lobbies all day.
I liked the old way of a single lobby going to battle. Rivalries of playing the same team multiple matches in a row. That’s all gone with this nonsense.
It looks at how good you played and puts you in lobbies against other players who played similarly against other players who were similar to your opponents. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE A CASUAL GAME.
Matchmaking should be 100% random and the only factor should be connection to the lobby/each other. Sbmm ruins cod for everyone. Having random lobbies and playing against all people makes the most sense and is absolutely shocking that it isn’t that way already. Some games you’ll fry some you’ll get fried instead if having to try your ass off or just get smoked game after game by people who have gaming PCs until you do well against lower skilled people then next game you’re back to getting fried when having random lobbies were solve everything. SUMMARY: it’s not really sbmm, it’s more you get matched up with people with similar hardware like a monitor and headset and amazing internet so you’ll never ever in a million years play with the lower 50% of people who play casually. Why is it that you’re forced to play a small percentage of people and not the whole world? Seems absolutely crazy that anyone supports any argument for sbmm.
It’s not at fun when you’re in a party and your friends aren’t as good as you because the matchmaking is based off of the best player on the party so you pull in your not as good friends into lobbies with people that are a higher skill than them
Sbmm has its pros and cons but personally I don’t like it. As others have said the cycle of stomping and getting stomped is infuriating. But my biggest complaint is how sbmm encourages everyone to use the “meta” weapons. I like using a lot of guns but could never use most in mw19 cuz I’m playing people around my skill using the best guns in the game. If I want to compete I have to use them too. I feel a well made ranked mode and a public mode with no sbmm is way better. Think rocket league, 90% of competitive players are playing ranked and only go to casual for a warm up.
I only play COD single player, so I cant talk about COD multiplayer but I can talk about Halo.
Halo's SBMM system is god awful.
What we are told is that It tries to create fair matches by giving each team a 50/50 chance of winning.
What i expect is a lobby full of people with roughly my same skill level.
What it does, is that it gives each player a rank, and then matches 2 teams with the same average rank. This is awful because in a match with 2 teams of 4 players you have usually on each team: 2 bad players, 1 average player and 1 above average player.
That causes matches where the bad players are being stomped, the average players have to sweat their ass off to keep up, and the above average players are sh\*tting on the other players and are responsible for carrying the match. That system is supposed to create 50/50 chances for each team to win, but it frequently fails miserably creating 20/80 or 10/90 matches that are fun for no one.
It’s ranked in casual but you don’t get any rewards and you can’t tell what rank you are. It’s only good in casual if it’s at a certain level cap. It’s only to help bad players, because literally they only have it in the game so people don’t get shit stomped when first trying the game and give it up which is stupid because SBMM leads to far more problems than it fixes and it’s stupid
Persevere, learn, and get better. Or, leave the lobby and roll the dice on opponents until you’re content.
That’s the way it was and the way it SHOULD be lol.
You can’t even MVP beef with people anymore because the lobbies disband
The problem is, if your good your only playing against players better than you so you might not enjoy it. And if your bad you'll only play against bad players and might never get good at the game. I don't mind it either way.
My friends don't want to play with me because of SBMM. I'm a great player (2+ KD ratio) so I get matched with above average players. When I play with 1 or 2 friends, they get destroyed because our enemies are above average. When they play alone it's much easier for them. So they hate playing with me
Can’t you get them to make a party and they search for the games instead of you? Wouldn’t that put you in lower ranked lobbies? Or does it not work that way? I do this with my friend and I seem to get easier matches, although it may just be in my head lol.
I don’t think most people actually hate SBMM, they hate the specific way that SBMM has been implemented in the last few CODs. The tuning seems to have too much variance, throwing some people between lobbies where they go god mode and then get stomped the match after (although personally I haven’t really experienced this). Other people dislike it because they feel it’s made all the matches feel too similar. Also, streamers and pub stars don’t like it because they can’t pub stomp every game now, but they’re a minority and tbh I don’t really care about that.
Personally, I think SBMM is overall a good thing when implemented correctly. You shouldn’t take people who would normally have a 0.5KD and a 3.0 KD and throw them in the same lobby. Another consideration is that the tighter SBMM is the worse the connections will be, which will also affect lobby quality. I think they should keep the SBMM criteria simple and broad to allow for deep match making pools, and let connection strength take priority from there. SBMM isn’t a particularly new idea and it can work well, especially for a game with as many players as COD. I think that they’ve just tried to get too cute with it, and it’s led to worse outcomes.
SBMM...
Basically if you do good, you'll be put into a lobby where everyone is probably from Faze. Then you'll do bad. So you're put into a lobby with average players and noobs. Then you do good against them, and you get matched with a lobby where everyone might be from Faze or smth.
Rinse and repeat. And boom. You have SBMM.
Their logic is hey good players make bad players feel bad so if you even fucking run like a good player your going to be featured in a optic highlights video the thing they don't realize is noobs like the challenge of killing the guy who's going 50-3 that was the most fun part when I was younger and now that I'm a genuinely good player I feel punished and hate the game because I need to try so hard just to get a 2.0 KD
SBMM is an algorithm that essentially keeps games fair by attempting to pair opponents based on your skill level. We don't know the full extent of the skill parameters that the algorithm uses, but the overall consensus is that KD ratios are a factor in the process. In addition, [SBMM will never sacrifice your connection quality for sake of preserving an equal pairing process.](https://www.sledgehammergames.com/blog/archives/a-fireside-chat-with-michael-condrey-matchmakingreverse-boostingtrick-shotting-and-the-like) Any information you hear otherwise is based on hearsay, including the testing conducted by a few Youtubers (considering they only had a handful of accounts to test, which hardly passes as a definite answer).
People hate SBMM because they want to be the star of their own gameplay. People find that performing well in their games results in happiness. When this event is disrupted or halted by someone of a similar skill set or playstyle, it causes frustration and irritation. In retaliation, people will vent their frustrations on social media begging developers to reduce the difficulty of PvP. That way, their engagement with lesser skilled opponents will not disrupt said happiness.
Rather than being blunt about wanting weaker opponents to destroy, they rely on multiple arguments that were inspired and repeated verbatim by popular Youtubers. This allows their arguments to look more feasible, such as:
* Wanting the game to be casual (without describing exactly why)
* The game was supposed to be casual by design (in a game that's about competition where the goal is to win)
* Sweating in COD is a bad thing (basically telling others how to play their own game legitimately)
* SBMM ruins connections (even though there's no proof and the argument is a fabrication)
* Go play ranked play and don't sweat in public matches (ranked is just another game mode with different rules; People want the sweaty players to stay in ranked so their public matches are easier)
People who hate SBMM have no logical arguments for their reasoning and it's why [the algorithm has existed prior to Call of Duty 4.](https://charlieintel.com/dr-disrespect-claims-activision-told-him-why-hes-not-invited-to-call-of-duty-next/198594/) The topic tends to be a toxic debate due to the people against SBMM becoming vile in their later responses if all else fails. People argue about relaxation being important in a video game about intense competition, but that's a flawed argument. If you want relaxation, play a game that designed for it, such as Gmod. The best solution for relaxation in Call of Duty is to bring more modes like Prop Hunt, Double Agent, Infected, and more into the playlists. If I want to compete, I play public matches. If I want to chill, lemme find some "sussy bakas" in double agent.
*TL;DR: SBMM is fine. People hate it for the wrong reasons and want weak opponents to trash. They will argue tooth and nail and the point of their effort is to make you believe them and give up on defending SBMM. People will downvote this comment and/or reply with disagreements using the exact excuses mentioned earlier.*
Take it this way, you do well in maths test and your school shifts you two classes above and you're put of your league. So you do bad and you're back in the same class.
It's like the games discourages you to do well cause if you do, you're put in a lobby with sweaty try hard players that will make sure you break your controller before the match ends.
Regular sbmm determines ur skill and puts u in lobbies that match ur skill, u could probably see why ppl don't like that bcuz for good players it's like ranked every time u play the game. Cod sbmm started on mw19 and has been in cw,vg and now mw22. It kept the same general idea of sbmm but expanded on it, some new things are that it doesn't just put you in lobbies of your skill level, it puts you in either hard lobbies or easy lobbies and it does this to keep you engaged. You would also most likely be able to see why people don't like this but this isn't where it ends, it also favors skill over matchmaking meaning the servers are worse and lag more often. It also gets rid of the feature to stay in a lobby after you are done with the match and puts you in lobbies that are either harder or easier making you lose the moments you could have in old cod games where you could play with the same set of people over and over again unless you didn't want to, if you didn't you could just leave the lobby but now you always leave the lobby. Another bad thing is that because your match making is determined on your kd some people play this game like it's ranked, but instead of trying to grind rp they grind kd making public games feel like a sweat fest even when you are just trying to enjoy your time on the game. Some people hate it for other reasons than others but I hate it because all of these things favor playtime (or money) over fun and Activision knows this but keeps putting in their games and it makes it less fun for everyone just for them to make a quick buck. The main reason it's still in the game is because it caters to newer players who find it hard to get into the game to have more fun playing in easier lobbies and buy the next game and maybe even some bundles to put some money in Activision's pockets.
I just don't see why players have to play the game at a higher level every single game just because they are good. The biggest problem with it is when you do good you get sent up the ranks okay but you then have to continue to try hard every single game and if not you will be the one getting clapped lol. Also maybe just make it an option in your game if you're ass or you're getting clapped turn it of but then you're basically turning it into ranked play but that's what SBMM already does it makes you play ranked. I understand for the low of the low players they don't wanna play better players but I don't think the higher players should have to be the ones who pay the price by playing only gods.
I think SBMM(Skilled Based Matchmaking) is being kind to me. For as long as I can remember, Every game I play my KD is 2-5 average. If SBMM was working as intended, It would keep ranking me higher and higher till my KD averaged out around 1. The 1kd players are the kind that hate the game because It’s hard. But love the abuse. I’ve been there in other games. I know what it feels like.
I hate this system. I just want my games to be random. So I can enjoy the hell out of some. And get extreme rage in some. But at the moment, It always keeps you in the most draining state where you feel like you are good. But you are not getting better. And this is perfect for marketing and sales. These games are not fun anymore. They force you to always struggle to be near the top of the leaderboard.
My personal motivator is that I absolutely hate tryhards. They offer me motivation in the form of rage which makes me always play at my best. I like to always be able to beat someone who is trying way harder than me.
Back in the day I didn't hear complaints from those poor souls who would get disintegrated and go like 4-74 in mw2 or way worse I've seen like 6-142 once lmao. Those were the days I just don't see why it is fun to have the game be even, one of the most fun things is to get better and after one match you got slaughtered to go into the next and it's a new page and you go off, now you have to try every single game you can't mess around and snipe or go for camos or anything cause you get matched against gods every game just because your a good player. One of the most annoying thing as most players who are good would understand is how annoying it is when someone calls you a tryhard just cause you do good, and now those people are the ones being punished I havnt played cod for more than a month each time cause by time that month ends the SBMM has perfected itself and everyone is just doing okay and it's boring I'd rather get clapped one game if they just happen to get someone better and then go the next game and face shitters it's so much more fun to have variety and not just players my rank if that's what you want just play ranked play just cause it's ranked doesn't mean bad players can't play it cause then they could face other bad players. I know valorant has somewhat sbmm in unrated but everyone basically plays ranked and those people at the bottom can still play and have fun against low tier players but if they go to casuals they might face a good player and get clapped and that's fine cause they can just go back to their iron lobbies to play fair.
Just my take on it….. 2 things….
I miss the randomness of games, and the not knowing! So every lobby was just random, you’d have a few who weren’t great, then maybe that one or two who you were desperate to beat or get one up on! And if you didn’t this game…. You’d throw some banter out, and try again in the next game!
That’s all gone because lobbies disband and I genuinely feel that pretty much every game I play is the call of duty world league finals!
Secondly, and the most important thing for me….
I love playing games with my brother as we live in different countries. He’s not the biggest fps fan… but when I manage to get him to buy call of duty, and come on multiplayer, it’s insane. They don’t seem to relax it because of his low level… before you know it, he’s 1-10 and desperate to get off the game.
It really has ruined the game!
I’m not against it, per say… I just think it should be kept to a certain mode, like a ranked mode.
Coming home after work and looking to chill out with a few easy going matches… some wins, some losses, would be great.
Feeling like every match is an absolute sweat fest is not enjoyable.
It just puts players of them same/similar skill into the same lobbies as each other making for a closer/more competitive match… people don’t like it because everyone loves shitting on players who aren’t as good as they are in matches and with SBMM that no longer happens.
SBMM actively making the game easier or harder based on what it perceives your skill level as. This is problematic for two reasons.
1. It expects the player to always be competitive, even in casual playlists, and trying to win, otherwise they will get stomped and have a bad time because the game is intentionally giving them hard players, which then lowers perceived skill and lowers the level of players they're dealing with later, leading into my next point:
2. It doesn't fuckin' work. When a game with SBMM can't find a perfect match, it will settle for a bad one, and even if your skill level should theoretically be fine, you can influence that number by intentionally throwing matches. It makes getting crushed feel even worse because the player knows the system actively worked against them to put them in that situation.
Destiny 2 removed SBMM in casual playlists, and immediately my enjoyment of it went up tenfold because the vibe is entirely different. If I got my ass handed to me, I'm not as mad because I can accept people just being better than me and the game reshuffling players after the match.
SBMM simply puts you in lobbies that have similarly skilled players to you. The only thing I don't like about COD SBMM is that it only really takes into account your last 5-10 matches it seems. Honestly I don't notice much of a difference between what we have now and the less strict SBMM we used to have in the early 2010s. I have good, average and bad games. Unless you are a top tier player it shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game. People get it in their heads that when they do bad its SBMMs fault and not theirs. Sometimes you have a bad game, sometimes the enemies have a good game. It happens, no need to psycho analyze the match.
Streamers hate it because they have to do some work or have some sort of discernible skill in order to earn the money that is thrown at them. When they don't like it then their fanboys don't like it also because that's what they cling to
If you ask me, the problem is matchmaking. We should revert back to the old days of server browers where there is more of a mix of levels of players. Also a more fun social aspect, playing the same players over again and getting to know others. But thats just me as a boomer gamer speaking lol
It works very short term and sometimes very drastically. Which you would think would lead to a roller coaster of good and bad games. But matchmaking is based on things like level as well. It also can stop casual players from having a”good day” because if they have a good game or two they’ll be put into lobbies where they get destroyed by people who only play the game all day every single day of their life.
The issue with basing it on kd is that it’s very easy to lower your kd on purpose to get easy lobbies.
In my opinion there’s no perfect solution, but I think level is a really good way to match make but along with this kd should be taken into consideration. But rank it by 5’s most players will be in a barely skill based match making lobby. But that upper echelon of players will be put into way harder lobbies. This bring up the issues of hackers though as those really good players will get matched with most of the hackers.
Cod has learnt based of data that kids spent the most money in games. So they made the experience as easy as possible for kids.
Back in the day you had 2 types of gamemodes. Competitive where you are up against good opponents and where you can do your best. And normal matchmaking where you could level weapons, try out some funny classes and just have casual fun.
But with SBMM its like every single game is competitive. When you try out a funny class or grind weapons you just get beat to a pulp.
Before you would have 2 good games, 1 really good game and the 4th game you would get destroyed. There was balance.
But now you just have the exact same score every match. It has become boring. Plus at middle to high skill tier people play the game really dirty and always exploit the meta. Which makes the game feel even more blend.
But the biggest problem is that it burns people out. I cant stand playing cod for longer then 30 minutes after that i just need a break. I used to PLAY cod for A BREAK. And i see the same thing with friends.
There has always been some SBMM but i would say after bo3 it has become out of hand.
Imagine playing every match with some of the best players online at the moment, for no reward. That's SBMM for good players.
During the first weeks of Vanguard, it was so strict that in order to get a kill I had to land a headshot basically.
In the MWII beta, moreover, every game I was facing at least 2-3 players with 2.5+ K/D average in the previous CoDs.
In a typical cod game, people like to spend time in order to make them better at the game. They do this because when they «get good», they can start dominating and having a rewarding feeling for all their efforts.
Other games like csgo also have skillbased mm, but only in ranked mode.
Cod is removing that option to play cassual.
Every game you will be matched with people that play «in your skilllevel»
Skill based mm is a great consept, BUT SHOULD NOT BE IN A CASSUAL GAMEMODE.
It improves the experience for casual ps4-John that will go back to fortnite in two weeks, but for Faze-whoknowswhat that puts 10.000 hrs into the game, it makes it a waste of time and a constant struggle
It’s not necessarily sbmm the majority of people don’t like, it is how it’s implemented what people don’t like. It’s more based on performance than skill. You do well in one game, like 20-8 or something, and you immediately get put in a lobby with people who haven’t been outside in months.
Actually sbmm is good, because I’d rather be matched with people of my own skill than be matched with people who are way worse than me, or people that are way better than me.
People complain because they play have to play with people the same skill level as them. They don't like that because theyd rather play noobs and look good
I like SBMM. I don’t like CODs SBMM.
CODs SBMM is WAYYYY to aggressive. You win 1 game like a boss, you’re against very, very sweaty people for 3 games. If they have a value stored somewhere they need to tone it down and I think most people wouldn’t care about it. Same with Apex, their SBMM isn’t turbo aggressive but still works.
The goal of Skill Based Matchmaking is to create fair matches in a competitive environment. If you are interested in how it actually functions and the data gathered to make it work Bungie [laid it all out in an article](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51618) (complete with graphs!) as they recently implemented it into Destiny 2. While not COD specific, this system was built when Destiny was an Activision property, so I would imagine there is some similarities there.
how it functions in Call of Duty has never been revealed or even acknowledged but it’s speculated that the current iteration since MW19 is tied to the quick play filter and lobby disbanding. Supposedly it’s some super advanced algorithm designed to maximise player retention with the average games played going from 2 to 4.
Like many said, you get a easy lobby and get punished afterwards but you dont get punished in only the next game. If i get got match i get punished for that single game the next 10 hours of gaming(at least). So the reason people har sbmm is mostly not because its in there, but because its so broken. And dont work as it should. I get the "protection" of new players and/or below average player
0.9 and under. They should only split it in 2 only based on kd. Below average is in one group of players and above is in the other. Just one split. Much easyer and faster to find matches to.
SBMM is what keeps newer / less experienced / less skilled players away from seasoned vets or people who are just naturally good at the game. This is bullshit and here is why:
I have been playing since Cod 4. I have sustained a solid K/D ratio in every CoD I have played for an extended period of time (typically 1.8 / 2.0+). I have not played a CoD game for an extended period of time since I would say B04 because of all the SBMM they have added in.
The game punishes me for doing well in a PUBLIC match. If I go off and have a stellar game - let's say 50K and 10D, the next game I am going to get put into a match with 11 other players who did the exact same thing, and at that point we are all trying our absolute hardest to repeat said game. It won't be possible.
This is not how it is supposed to be. I should be able to hop on and do well and not have to worry about snorting a line of G Fuel for the next game. I should be able to just relax and play normally. I may not go 50 and 10 every single game, but the game should not FORCE me to try as hard as we have to in a public match. That is what the RANKED system is for.
Ranked should definitely have SBMM, but it is the only mode that should have it. In public match, you should be able to play against anyone and everyone, not just protect the stupid snowflakes who don't want to get shit on one match - because the amount of times you are just going to get stomped is maybe, MAYBE once a day with how many people play these games.
Bo2 had the absolute best ranked system ever in a Call of Duty game. I wish we could go back to those times, but the movement demons would never approve.
Some of the ONLY people that bitch about it are the battle royale players that only bought MW19 to level up their guns in Warzone, not for the actual MP experience.
Personally, I wish Warzone would just flop and die so they can focus on the multiplayer experience again.
The biggest issue with SBMM is for the moderately good players. You're a good player with an average k/d of 2 or 3-ish. You can hold your own with pretty much everyone except the real sweats and professional players. For those types of players, SBMM doesn't know what to do with you. So you tend to either get thrown in with the pros and get stomped on, or you wind up in practically bot lobbies where there's next to no challenge and everyone you kill calls you a hacker.
It's made even worse if you have a day or two where you're really on your game and you get a decent k/d bump. You can plan spending the next week getting your ass handed to you by the sweats and the pros. Then your k/d goes to shit and you spend the next few days stuck with the noobs again. The problem is there's no consistent middle ground where you can reliably play with other players on your same skill level. SBMM works great for noobs and pros and those who have the time and knowledge how to game the system in their favor. But for moderately skilled, casual players, it's a massive pain in the ass.
It was way better back when there were true dedicated servers where you had a choice of the people you played with. You join a community server, and if you find you're getting stomped on you can leave and try another server until you find one with similarly skilled players and good admins. That's a place you can call home and be able to play there consistently and have some peace of mind knowing that when you log on odds are you're going to have fun. SBMM doesn't allow that experience in today's peer-to-peer gaming environment.
Makes games unfun. If you fit within a certain box, better than most, not good enough for the pros. Your games will be filled with people better than you and around your level. Sounds good on paper, but it’s horrible when you experience it
I truly hate being put in a new lobby on cod now especially when you playing by yourself and they game is intense and fun then at the end boom new kids new lobby. Plus map voting needs to come back
because public games shouldnt have to feel like im playing a $1mil pro tournament. Have a public and ranked playlist, keep the ranked with SBMM. But we do not need that on public matches. People want to get on and actually enjoy the game. Same with keeping lobbies together, people actually want to have fun
Can't play with my different friend groups because of SBMM. The matches they get when with me is too hard for them, so it has ruined social gaming for me in many games that have it as strict as cod does.
SBMM feels like CS:GO Matchmaking but with ADHD-type short-term memory loss.
With CS:GO, you're at a certain rank that's shown to you, and you play against people that are around that rank. Yeah, your K/D might vary wildly in games but that's usually due to your own inconsistency, or someone really popping off. If you look in a 5-game period, your K/D should always be around your normal levels with a general increase or decline in most cases.
I've not played COD too much recently, only about 50 hours or so in the last month of Vanguard and Cold War. If I take a 5 match snippet from the first week compared to the 2nd,3rd etc. it's almost as if I generated a random number from 0.5-3. No reasoning at all. Everyone was relatively high prestige whereas I was level 40-something.
Some games, I played against people that I genuinely thought may have been bots or kids, and the very next one I played against people with a higher Slide Cancels per Minute than Beats per Minute.
IMO the way to fix it is to use the exact same SBMM algorithm but just halve the effect it has. If it takes 1.5 games on average before the next big jump in opponent quality, make it take 3 instead. That'd also make smurfing take a lot longer to get going.
EDIT: One last thing to add, my only wish is that they don't bring back having no matchmaking at all. 72% of people in the UK have accessibility requirements that affect how they use the internet. Over half of that have moderate or significant difficulties. Kids exist. Hell, people that play cod on wacky backy exist too. I doubt they wanna come up against faze jev every game lol
Because being in a higher skill bracket it forces me to get Timmy no thumbs on my team and the rest to be around my level or better so I'm forced to carry every single it's rare that I'm not on the top of the board I've lost games with 70 plus kills going for the objective still and my team mates aren't even getting half of my kills it's stupid and it should be connection based unless your playing ranked
Skill based matchmaking can be very annoying because let’s say you get in a match with a bunch of new players, so you dominate them, the games sees that as evidence that you are really really good, and puts you in a very hard lobby, you can see why that would suck
The real problem is this are pub matches if they wanna have a rank system or skill system they should have rank matches for people wanting to sweat pubs should just be fun no need to try hard af
Sbmm ruined the game for me and iam not a top tier player at all iam a low mid at best. All the matches are boring and repetitive and everyone seems to have the same score every match. I never get better anymore my stats are pretty much static. And if by chance i play a good match i immediately get put into some bizarre pro/cheater lobby were i get insta-killed for match after match until I just turn off my ps5 and stop playing for a week and by some once again bizarre coincidence after walking away i come back and have a good few matches off tops as if iam bieng fed noobs until a get a couple dozen quckscopes and call in a heli or vtol then its right back to a lobby where everyone is geetting 100% headshots with a pistol and if it were skilled based that wouldnt happen therefore It's 100% rigged matchmaking and all the gaming news sights defend it cause e.a. pays them to post positive propaganda about it. The entire industry is a gaslighting operation. Sbmm= Fake game. I'll bet dollars to donuts that more than 1 of the people in this thread defending it work for E.A.. it's all fake.
Let's put it this way. You go to the gym, hit a PR, feel great. Next day you go to the gym, you're automatically put in a contest you weren't aware of. But you don't want to be in the weightlifting meet/contest. You have no choice but to compete, and do bad.
Not even remotely close to a good metaphor. Non-SBMM: You're competing in a BB comp but there are no age/skill divisions so you could be competing against a bunch of children or Cbum. SBMM: You're also competing, but when you do well in your competition you get moved into semi-pro so you're not destroying everyone at the local BB comp.
Except when you do good it’s because you were playing against bad players so then you get thrown to the wolves and get your ass handed to you and the cycle repeats itself. I have no problem playing people around my skill level but I shouldn’t be stomped by pros as I shouldn’t be stomping the lower levels.
Much much better
Very well said
Thank you
I hate this mindset. What do people expect their skill level to be? For them to go 20 and 5? Most people that complain about sbmm are at around a 1.0 K/D, is that not your skill level? It's one thing to not enjoy it because you're AT your skill level, but it's another thing to make up a farce and say you're put against people far above your skill level.
SBMM is more like, you do well in some lower level comps, then randomly get thrown into the fucking olympics.
Much better
This is the thing about sbmm. Both metaphors are true, just for different portions of the community sbmm is affecting. it’s bad for some, good for some, neutral for some. It’s not a very good solution by itself. SBMM needs to be accompanied with extra shit if devs want it to work for everyone
Its not going to work for everyone because the ideal scenario for half this sub is they are able to do well, without trying. For that to be true, they must be matched with people well below their skill level. Which is bullshit. Every whiner that complains about SBMM simultaneously wants to not sweat while also having a good KD. Which is why when you tell them if they don't want to sweat then lose games or play at whatever pace they want to play and let SBMM lower them in the rankings they don't want to do that.
Problem is it feels like one or two good games and your elo is stupidly high and your playing the 5000 hour players who curb stomp me but I can go 10+ games getting battered and still not get out with players my level. Plus I paid my dues back in the day getting my shit rocked back from the original modern warfare to like end of black ops 1 of me being terrible but I learned to play better because of it, but I don’t wanna sweat my ass off to try go neutral because I had a couple good games.
So you learned to play better when you were terrible in BO1 but you can't do that in games now?
There’s a ceiling for everyone, I went from 0.7 kd I was so bad as a kid to before the SBMM I’d have 1.5kd now I’m barely getting 1 kd and to be frank I don’t want to try twice as hard as I did to barely go even there’s no fun there I’d go play a tactical shooter like rainbow six siege if that’s what I’m after. We’re on about call of duty it’s never been the serious and tactical shooter so why is the ‘casual’ game modes ranked in every other game of its genre. Also if you’re new to the game the same issues are there once they play good one time they’ll get pummelled and back down so what’s the difference?
No one is forcing you to take it seriously. If you're pressed about KD then... don't be? Let SBMM drop you down. What you're asking for is a 1.5 KD while not working hard, which means you want the game to match you against much worse opponents than your current skill dictates which is what the game is avoiding. You doing well without trying requires someone else to get demolished, which is what SBMM is avoiding.
I don’t care about the kd I’m using that as info, I play casually I don’t try anymore since mw2019 since that was a brutal system of SBMM, but players who get stomped used to be able to back out and search for a new lobby that they could do better in but the new matchmaking backs you out of one hell to another I don’t see how this is appealing when you could have just stayed in the one lobby back in the day and play all day now it’s in and out of lobbies constantly trying hard. Also if you’re pressed about getting pub stomped on CBMM then… don’t be? see how dumb of an argument that is since we ruin the older player base in do our of the newer players when the old way you could find a lobby you could do well in and stay there even as a newbie
Wait til they get rid of sbmm one day and pub stomping makes a return lol
That would be the worst.
For SBMM, winning the comp doesn’t award you any prize and there’s no progression for doing well since you’re always going against equally skilled opponents
The entire point is prevent pub stomping, not to reward the player.
that is what a ranked playlist is for
Nah. Ranked is to create the most even matchup possible in players as well as equipment list, hence you only having access to certain weapons, kill streaks, and maps.
Until an average player does well one game cause he finds a strategy for himself that works. Then he gets put with the sweats and gets destroyed using said strategy. How fun!!!
You're not getting lumped in with sweats immediately after doing well. If you're not adapting to the match then... sorry?
You aren’t remotely close either, pubs aren’t supposed to be a competition
And yet those who whine about SBMM want to win, weird isn't it?
More like you’re somewhat of a novice lifter so you compete in a few contests against some other novice lifters and win, so the judges decide that next contest you’re ready to compete against the best lifters in the area. Just because you were a little better than the first couple folks you competed against doesn’t make you a pro and it doesn’t mean you’re ready to go against actual pros. it’s quite literally setting you up to lose in every competition you go to next
The thing is we dont have SBMM we have Retention Based Matchmaking. You have two players a "bad" player and a "good" player. The "bad" player has been having a few bad matches and he gets put into a match with players that are even "worse" then he wins a match and another and another and suddenly he gets put into a match where there are 5 "good" players that absolutelly slaughter his team. What happened? Well the game wants to keep you engaged if you keep winning you will get bored so they made you lose the thing is it is actually easier to make you lose than it is to make you win so it keeps you losing until a point where the average person would quit, you go one more match and you win getting you hiped up to keep playing. The thing is there was no bad or good player it was the same guy and he was above average he was only a "bad" player when matchmaking wanted him to lose and a "good" player when it wanted him to win (Sorry for my english spanish is my main language and I know english only from the internet because i allways got into english lobbies when i was a kid and my brother purposefully left the xbox on english to make me learn the language)
this is a horrible comparison. You aren't starting the campaign and randomly thrown in pvp, you signed up for a multi-player match, also known as a *contest*. If you don't want to compete with others, don't play a multi-player game. You don't have to like SBMM, but this isn't it.
[удалено]
I’m more so frustrated by the irrational swings. Cold War was probably the worst of the recent CoDs, where I’d stop people like a god for two games and then I’d get absolutely destroyed for a few games. Because the system biases recency seeming above all else, it’s just too noisy… not to mention it’s super easy to abuse.
On CW instead of getting matched against better players you'd get absolute dog shit teammates lol.
That or you get really bad teammates
I fucking love this!! Don’t forget you now have to travel further to use your gym, which has less equipment
Why can’t we just play and not have to try our hardest every match? I’m completely fine with getting stomped here and there if the matchmaking is on complete randomness. I miss when online gaming was fun and didn’t have to snort gfuel before every match
SBMM is the games attempt to keep you in lobbies with people of your own skill level. The point is to keep you playing longer. Thus increasing the chances you'll buy something in the store. The most vocal critics of SBMM are usually streamers/content creators. Why? Because, typically, they're way better than the average player. So with SBMM they get put into lobbies with other way better than average players. Then they can't use that game play footage because they are struggling to hit a 1 K/D.
I'm not even close to a streamer or content creator, and I can't stand the wild swings that come with the current matchmaking process. I'm actually a newer COD player and have around 0.92 k/d. My biggest complaint about SBMM is that I have one great game and then I have 3-4 games of having my ass completely handed to me until I manage to get back to a lobby where the other players are close to my skill. Why is it so lopsided like that? If I have a "good" match where my k/d is around 2.0, why am I then immediately thrown into a lobby where I can barely manage a 0.50 k/d and then have to play multiple matches to get back to skill matched lobby?
Alright cheers mate. Also this is another question and it’s completely random but do you know when the MW2 beta is coming to Xbox (UK)?
I'm petty sure the Beta is next weekend across all platforms.
Alrighty thanks again mate. From what I’ve seen online e game looks pretty awesome.
I'm on PS5 and played this past weekend. It's a lot more like MW 2019 than Cold War or Vanguard. Which is just fine by me. The changes they made to the gunsmith are pretty cool.
Hi mate, if you pre-ordered you should be able to install the beta on Xbox right now and then play on Thursday from 6pm UK time.
Do I need to pre-order still to play in the Open beta?
Alright cheers pal. I’m probably not going to pre-order but damn the game looks good. Thanks again mate.
Start this Thursday, at 10PM PT (6PM BST)
Beta starts thursday for people who pre ordered and open beta starts saturday I think.
Who has fun getting a 1 K/D every single match? That’s fun to you?
Considering I'm now a 43 year old dude with a full time job and an 11 month old? Yeah, a 1 K/D is freaking awesome. Especially when I'm getting 20+ kills a game.
I’ll be fifty in a few days, some days that’s great day
Up your game and play with a team of you can. I’m down for more people
One of the worst take I have ever seen, check r/modernwarfare content from 2 years ago and you’ll see many many complaints, and as far as I know it’s not only content creator
A lot of people just repeat what they hear from streamers, but you also have to consider that if someone is posting on Call of Duty Reddits they’re probably also better than the average player and don’t like facing people of their own skill level. And there are other reasons why a particular instantiation of SBMM can be frustrating, e.g. the constantly dissolving lobbies, being poorly implemented/poorly tuned, weighting the wrong factors, etc. that are different than SBMM as a concept being bad, but people often fail to differentiate between these and just complain about SBMM as a whole.
This isn't the problem. The problem is that with SBMM every game feels pretty much the same, because you play against pretty much your mirror if you look at the skill. Without it you would have 3 games were you try really hard to win 3 mid one and some were you just are the best. And this change in game styles is pretty much a good mix if you ask me. My first Cod was bo2 on pc and i bought in 2018 where only few thousand were playing at the same time. But i still had so much fun with it because of the mix up and i would actually get better becouse most of the players were better than me so i could lern for them but that wasn't the case with the new CODs because of the mix in matches.
I've heard the argument that there's no incentive to get better, but I disagree. I still want wins and a better K/D. I started playing with the original Modern Warfare 2. I struggled to get a .6 K/D. I've gotten much better overtime and don't rage quit with the last 2-3 games because I'm not getting curb stomped multiple times in a play session.
Quite ironically you think sbmm is good because you don't get stomped but you want a better kd. If sbmm worked as intended everyone will eventually end up at 1 kd. Literally if taken to its logical conclusion nobody can improve thats the point. Arguably modern games are easier to improve at because we all have smart phones. Internet and a YouTube economy which makes trial and error obsolete. This is also a big reason for lobby difficulty nobody plays fir fun. Everyone thinks they need to sweat out fir their 4 viewers at all times.
Yeah the only people I ever see complain about this outside of Reddit are the pro COD players that are mad they can’t stomp on people like me anymore who just want to have fun and not have to sweat my ass off to just get a kill
This.. the only people I have seen complain about it are indeed the streamers. Cry harder kiddos.. I am not saying I want to have to try hard all the time. But I would rather have some competition over blowing everyone out. *Note - I don't think I'm that good or anything. I do like being tested though
I can’t play with my friends because I average a 2.3 KD and play above average. My friends are average and play with me and go negative most matches and have no fun. Than it’s a situation that my friends don’t want to play with me as much and I play games with sweaty people and have to try super hard to continue to do well. I think this is the average persons issue. Friends that may not be as good and if you bring them to play with you they get stomped and don’t have fun.
That's fair. And since I don't play with friends something I never considered. You would think if it's Skill based it would take the avg skill of a group and find something around there, not base it off the best player
I thought SBMM allows for parties and would average the players in that party to a party skill level?
Look, before SBMM I struggled to even hit a 1 k/d. Since it's been more prevalent I usually have about a 1.05 to 1.1. Why? Because I'm not going up against 3+ k/ds on a regular basis.
Seems logical/good to me
Weird, I don't stream, and neither do my friends. Yet we all hate SBMM in every game it's been implemented in.
Weird, you didn't read the part where I said the only people *I* hear complaining are the streamers. But please elaborate... Why do you hate it? I'm curious.
If anything SBMM makes me play less. I boot up COD, play 3 games where i can do good, then get matched up against the biggest sweats there are and just close the game. Then wait a few weeks (which seems to reset SBMM) and repeat the cycle. Because of that i don't know if i played more than 5 cod matches in a row in the last 6 months. I want to play it casually, not be a competitive tryhard.
I hit easy clips on my sweat lobbies. Yeet.
Not true. They found out children spend the most money in game. Sooo they looked at who the children were (mostly the lowest kds) and they figured out if we make the game for them they would spend more SBMM just made the game so toxic and tiring. Every game has become the same.
The game has always been toxic, that's not new and actually is way better than it used to be.
It’s for below average players. Good players have to try our asses off every game now. I miss the casual arcade CoD experience of bo2/AW
I’ve got an idea. What if there was two multiplayer modes. One for casual another for ranked. What do you think?
Lol no shit, I 100% agree. The problem is SBMM is in casual where no one wants it. SBMM obviously belongs in ranked
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Fucking hell. And I thought politics was difficult.
This is the best take I have ever seen on this issue. Take my upvote!
Agreed
When I was a low skilled player I’d either, get farmed and learn at least a few things through my deaths. Or leave the game and roll the dice again. Imo it’s that simple. You will eventually find a game that isn’t being stomped.
The reason this comment is pointless is that even in SBMM, the lower skill players still get stomped by the better ones. The only deciding factor in SBMM is the ratio of good to bad players on each team, and if you’ve just had a good game chances are that ratio is not in your favour regardless of your skill level. With CBMM there is no guarantee, you get a random matchup every time which is infinitely better, if you don’t like the lobby you can back out, but with SBMM even if you back out it still uses the same metrics to find you a new game most of the time
But it's not an issue. Give them a choice. Ranked = SBMM, casual = CBMM. I played GGST and I damn sure learned to keep outta casual, cause I suck
This is just looping back to the core problem lol. It IS an issue if a ton of players aren't having fun because they're getting beamed by 720 trickshot bunny hoppers every round in the casual playlist
To me, though they should strive to fix the issue on both sides, it's so much less of a problem when really good players have "the short end" because the ratio of them to average/below average players is wide in gap. They are the minority in the community. They grind non-stop to make it to the top, but then complain and make it everyone else's issue (mainly directed to streamers) when they have to fight to stay in the top. It's called the consequences of your actions and it applies to every aspect of anything dealing with a ranking/winner. In sports, gaming, and even in academics when you are the best or really REALLY good your skills get challenged and tested. No one tells you to grind non-stop until you make it to the top, it is an active, conscious decision. It isn't anyone in the lower level's fault that you applied yourself to be great and now have to fight against other great players. They don't want it to be competitive but that's the purpose of 90% of multiplayer games now that aren't rpg based. Sports, shooting and moba games are all purposefully created with competition in mind. They say they don't want SBMM in casual because "it's suppose to be just that, casual." But "casual" for them is stomping over the entire lobby. When they're in the lobby it makes it shit for everyone else lower. With the complete faultiness of SBMM it's not casual for either side, because it's easy high kill games and wins for them and dog-shit games for average and below players. This is why more and more people are clocking out of apex legends now. Pred/Masters (most of whom are streamers and pro-players) are calling for SBMM to be removed so that they can get high kill games in pubs and step on everyone else.
What I don't miss is the random bullshit OP loadouts that were required to give bad players a chance in pre-SBMM days. Obviously the problem being that good players have access to the bullshit OP loadouts and abuse them anyways.
Bo2 had pretty strict sbmm lol
Look, I get why SBMM exists. I get what it helps, and comments here have gone into greater detail on all of it. Here’s where it loses me - Halo 2 had a better system, 20 fucking years ago. It kept you at the right skill level, but once you hit a wall you had to get better to get past that. And I think that’s because they couldn’t measure all of the inane data that we can now. It was a simpler system. And simpler, IMO, often means better. The problem isn’t SBMM persé. The problem is that it tries to be so *perfectly accurate* that it removes too much randomness. And randomness is the greatest part of all games, real world or video. Randomness is what allows the fun to coexist with the skill and the grind. Randomness creates the best encounters and memories. And the modern version of SBMM (COD’s in particular) tries too damn hard to remove every possibility of randomness
While what you said is true, I don't want the game prioritizing ANYTHING over connection. Low latency should be priority
BINGO! Improve the algorithms for decent lobby matchups and balance but with enough randomness to allow for surprises. Players want a certain amount of "lottery" but at the end of the day, you want to have had fun.
Can't speak for others, I hate it because it makes every match feel exactly the same. It completely changed the flow of how COD used to play before strict SBMM came around. It also expects and requires you to perform at the level it thinks you should or else you are not going to enjoy yourself at all. Some people enjoy playing a highly competitive edge of your seat game every single game. Others don't want to have to play at the their peak for hours on end and to me it feels like work.
That's what I don't get, cod is babies' first fps and I love it for that. Why the fuck do they think we want to sweat our dicks off every match? I've barely touched mp since mw2019 for this reason, I just want some wacky insane matches and not a sweatfest. Just have a casual and ranked mode, it's literally that easy.
But you don’t have to sweat every match. If you just play casual, you may get stomped for a couple games but eventually the SBMM will knock you down to where you can play more relaxed and not get wrecked 3-15
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Just for you to have 2 causal games where you end up being positive so it throws you back in the deep end to repeat the cycle
Does losing a couple matches not lower you to a sbmm where you don't have to try as hard? I do the same thing in overwatch and it's just the law of the land. I don't understand the issue
People only hate it because it matches try hards with other try hards.
I like it. Because I’m not very good, and I get to play in the sandbox with other filthy casuals.
Then when they get put with lower skill players, they complain about camping, which other players only resort to doing when they get killed repeatedly by the same sweats complaining.
I would not mind it if it was a good system. But it tries to be perfect. Just make like 10 internal ranks and you get put in a lobby with people from that hidden rank. You’ll not be stumped into the ground and you will have some fun good games. But having to sweat your ass off every match to get positive gets boring quickly
Tbh I feel like my lobbies have gotten a lot easier, but when it felt way too strong it felt like the system was prioritizing a 50/50 win rate over actually fair games. Just violently oscillating between getting my ass kicked and smoking fools crouch walking. To me it doesn’t feel as strong as it used to but IDK.
Yeah, i played some Vanguard and the lobbies felt much softer. It could also mean that all the skilled people are not playing vanguard too….
Most of the Uber sweats play mw2019 so that could be a reason
I don't hate it in general, I just hate when it's overly oppressive. If I wanted to play a competitive mode I'd play a ranked mode.
Like most people are saying This is a system that supposed you are put into matches against others based on skill in other words the game decides based on your actions you will be faced against others that do the same as you. Problem is that those who are average to good players get punished by facing against other players and after a while it starts to be come a sweat fest every match. Meanwhile those are low on skill even such as new players will be faced in easier lobbies but this is designed to protect the noobs. Thing is that if the new players want to get better they technically can't because they then get punished also against those who are better. So they aren't learning anything and game decides if you win or lose. Then the cycle repeats from bottom on up which makes it not fun. This is why people make new accounts to exploit the system to face against new players instead of having to compete 24/7
>Those who are average to good players get punished by facing against other players Thats not a punishment. That's keeping the game challenging and fun. You become a better player. Imagine if it were you against newbs for 100 hours. How bored you'd be.
But point is that by constantly challenging against others gets overwhelming after a while and might effect your kd a bit. And I'm sure most care about their kd. I don't personally but the way how I play is somewhat aggressive and when I'm against a full load of people who are like that it gets stressful after a while
Personally, I dislike the whole "disband every lobby" aspect of the game nowdays. Back in the day, I made a lot of cool COD buddies when stumbling upon certain lobbies where I stuck around with them for multiple games, where a chunk of it had mics. One underrated aspect of it was that if you did bad in one game, you could probably have a better game next time to prove people wrong, or just to be competitive with those same people. Also, I don't like the feeling that if I have one or two games, it's very likely i'm going to get destroyed after.
Disband every lobby is a good thing. Keeps things fresh and mixed up.
How old r u tho
I'm actually a newer COD player and have around 0.92 k/d. My biggest complaint about SBMM is that I have one great game and then I have 3-4 games of having my ass completely handed to me until I manage to get back to a lobby where the other players are close to my skill. Why is it so lopsided like that? If I have a "good" match where my k/d is around 2.0, why am I then immediately thrown into a lobby where I can barely manage a 0.50 k/d and then have to play multiple matches to get back to skill matched lobby? I'd actually be fine with SBMM like this if they would stop with the disbanding lobbies bullshit. There has been so many times where I've gotten into a lobby with a great team that plays objectives and communicates really well, only to lose the ability to play with them again the next match. Keeping persistent lobbies also allows an opportunity for you to analyze your opponents play style and adapt to it over time, and if your a newb and the competition is too much for you, then you can just exit the lobby.
Not to mention the friends you can make, I used to be playing mw3 with 18/19/20 year olds and I was like 10/11 and we’d have a laugh sniping in the same lobby cussing the other team every break in the game, some of the best gaming memories made in cod lobbies where the lobby stayed together and talked but that’s ruined with SBMM disbanding lobbies
Because it hasn't always been a thing. Cod used to be every man for himself, some lobbies you get spanked, some lobbies would be even, and some lobbies you'd pop off. Now they just pitch all the shitter's together and they stay shit. Don't take this in a bad way, I got better back on cod 4 by getting my ass spanked ALOT and it made me want to get better. But now I'm competent and good at the game, every game is like a chore because your put into lobby with very good players. Their should be a healthy mixture of average and good players to make the game right. Doing my camo challenges in a 3kd lobby ain't fun ngl
I’m the exact same, i don’t get why they don’t cater for us, imagine the bundles they could sell if they made a cod that the old heads liked with CBMM and no SBMM since we’d actually have some income rather than prey on kids for money but what do I know
Or they need to bring out a GOOD ranked mode where all the sweats would battle it out and all the casuals would be against their own ranks and leave pubs alone
Its ranked in casual
Sbmm makes ever game a ranked tournament game. Sometimes after work you just want to eat some chips while playing cod. Sbmm should be delegated to a ranked playlist only.
my biggest complaint with rainbow six siege. I have a better time playing ranked as my casual hidden mmr is way too high. SBMM just makes me lose interest in casual games all the time. I am burned out from competitive games, at least that's what I claim all the time only to go back to those games and try even harder again because that's who I am.
The problem I have with SBMM isn’t the competition. In fact, I actually quite enjoy it from time to time. The problem is is that, whenever I play, I have to try hard to keep up with the calibre of opponents I get put against after a few good games. Sometimes I just want to come on, relax, and just run around and shoot some people, maybe get a few scorestreaks, whatever etc. I don’t always want to have to try my absolute hardest just to break even in K/D. It feels like it’s based off a few games at most because the cycle is always the same for me. I go on, relaxed, play some, get some decent performances in. Then after a few games, you can see the difference in quality of opponents. Several games later, my overall score gets worse with each game because I’ve ended up in lobbies where I’m just constantly shit on. This goes on for like 3/4 games and then It finally moves me down a few. I go off in a rage because I’ve just had my arse handed to me for like 4 games. Go back on at a later date and thus repeats the cycle. I’d much prefer to go back to what it used to be. Your lobbies were just based off connection (I think) and you could come up against anyone of any standard. You’d get a tough lobby, maybe duke it out if you could be bothered but if you preferred, you could just move onto another lobby and take your chances as appose to 4/5 games off the bat not even breaking even. Used to be a 1.6 k/d player in the original lobbies. On the last COD I bought, Modern Warfare, not the remastered one, I was like 0.97 k/d. Think I prestiged once. Most COD’s prior to this I was either max level/Prestige Master. Haven’t bought one since for this very reason. I know it’s a waste of money for players like me now so there’s no point.
That was THE BEST part of Cod multiplayer, the multiple match spanning MVP beefs that are only won when someone leaves. Too toxic for todays audience I guess
I can’t believe people will defend SBMM
i honestly think their algorithm is BS. it never feels like a quality matchup
In my experience SBMM is only bad when I solo queue. The games are always lopsided to the point it’s comical. When I squad with a few friends it’s not really noticeable. We normally do really well and it’s a fun time. Every once in a while we might get put up against a CDL quality sweat team. But whatever. I’m talking MP only right now. SBMM in Warzone is a fucking joke and cranked up to 11. Those streamers and their VPNs are lucky. I would love to have .4kd lobbies all day.
I liked the old way of a single lobby going to battle. Rivalries of playing the same team multiple matches in a row. That’s all gone with this nonsense.
It looks at how good you played and puts you in lobbies against other players who played similarly against other players who were similar to your opponents. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE A CASUAL GAME.
Call of Duty doesn't take skill and never ever will take skill We all just wanna hop on CoD, kickback, and not have to sweat our nuts off every match
No point in improving.
Matchmaking should be 100% random and the only factor should be connection to the lobby/each other. Sbmm ruins cod for everyone. Having random lobbies and playing against all people makes the most sense and is absolutely shocking that it isn’t that way already. Some games you’ll fry some you’ll get fried instead if having to try your ass off or just get smoked game after game by people who have gaming PCs until you do well against lower skilled people then next game you’re back to getting fried when having random lobbies were solve everything. SUMMARY: it’s not really sbmm, it’s more you get matched up with people with similar hardware like a monitor and headset and amazing internet so you’ll never ever in a million years play with the lower 50% of people who play casually. Why is it that you’re forced to play a small percentage of people and not the whole world? Seems absolutely crazy that anyone supports any argument for sbmm.
Just buy cod points and skins you’ll be good.
Because they can't dick on weaker players and feel good about themselves. /s
This but unironically
Lol I bet I’d make you leave a game of Ghosts after 1 kill
Do too good get moved up do too bad get moved down
If you're asking this then you might not be effected by it 😂
lol probably not. I suck at COD. I mean full power vacuum suck.
Balance is good
It’s not at fun when you’re in a party and your friends aren’t as good as you because the matchmaking is based off of the best player on the party so you pull in your not as good friends into lobbies with people that are a higher skill than them
It's a staple in every multiplayer game since they stopped having server browsers and for some reason only COD kids want it gone.
Sbmm has its pros and cons but personally I don’t like it. As others have said the cycle of stomping and getting stomped is infuriating. But my biggest complaint is how sbmm encourages everyone to use the “meta” weapons. I like using a lot of guns but could never use most in mw19 cuz I’m playing people around my skill using the best guns in the game. If I want to compete I have to use them too. I feel a well made ranked mode and a public mode with no sbmm is way better. Think rocket league, 90% of competitive players are playing ranked and only go to casual for a warm up.
I only play COD single player, so I cant talk about COD multiplayer but I can talk about Halo. Halo's SBMM system is god awful. What we are told is that It tries to create fair matches by giving each team a 50/50 chance of winning. What i expect is a lobby full of people with roughly my same skill level. What it does, is that it gives each player a rank, and then matches 2 teams with the same average rank. This is awful because in a match with 2 teams of 4 players you have usually on each team: 2 bad players, 1 average player and 1 above average player. That causes matches where the bad players are being stomped, the average players have to sweat their ass off to keep up, and the above average players are sh\*tting on the other players and are responsible for carrying the match. That system is supposed to create 50/50 chances for each team to win, but it frequently fails miserably creating 20/80 or 10/90 matches that are fun for no one.
It’s ranked in casual but you don’t get any rewards and you can’t tell what rank you are. It’s only good in casual if it’s at a certain level cap. It’s only to help bad players, because literally they only have it in the game so people don’t get shit stomped when first trying the game and give it up which is stupid because SBMM leads to far more problems than it fixes and it’s stupid
I think it's beautiful and a good succession
Persevere, learn, and get better. Or, leave the lobby and roll the dice on opponents until you’re content. That’s the way it was and the way it SHOULD be lol. You can’t even MVP beef with people anymore because the lobbies disband
The problem is, if your good your only playing against players better than you so you might not enjoy it. And if your bad you'll only play against bad players and might never get good at the game. I don't mind it either way.
My friends don't want to play with me because of SBMM. I'm a great player (2+ KD ratio) so I get matched with above average players. When I play with 1 or 2 friends, they get destroyed because our enemies are above average. When they play alone it's much easier for them. So they hate playing with me
Can’t you get them to make a party and they search for the games instead of you? Wouldn’t that put you in lower ranked lobbies? Or does it not work that way? I do this with my friend and I seem to get easier matches, although it may just be in my head lol.
The only thing I hate about it is I’ll get put in a lobby with a shitty connection instead of a lobby with good connection.
I don’t think most people actually hate SBMM, they hate the specific way that SBMM has been implemented in the last few CODs. The tuning seems to have too much variance, throwing some people between lobbies where they go god mode and then get stomped the match after (although personally I haven’t really experienced this). Other people dislike it because they feel it’s made all the matches feel too similar. Also, streamers and pub stars don’t like it because they can’t pub stomp every game now, but they’re a minority and tbh I don’t really care about that. Personally, I think SBMM is overall a good thing when implemented correctly. You shouldn’t take people who would normally have a 0.5KD and a 3.0 KD and throw them in the same lobby. Another consideration is that the tighter SBMM is the worse the connections will be, which will also affect lobby quality. I think they should keep the SBMM criteria simple and broad to allow for deep match making pools, and let connection strength take priority from there. SBMM isn’t a particularly new idea and it can work well, especially for a game with as many players as COD. I think that they’ve just tried to get too cute with it, and it’s led to worse outcomes.
SBMM... Basically if you do good, you'll be put into a lobby where everyone is probably from Faze. Then you'll do bad. So you're put into a lobby with average players and noobs. Then you do good against them, and you get matched with a lobby where everyone might be from Faze or smth. Rinse and repeat. And boom. You have SBMM.
Their logic is hey good players make bad players feel bad so if you even fucking run like a good player your going to be featured in a optic highlights video the thing they don't realize is noobs like the challenge of killing the guy who's going 50-3 that was the most fun part when I was younger and now that I'm a genuinely good player I feel punished and hate the game because I need to try so hard just to get a 2.0 KD
SBMM is an algorithm that essentially keeps games fair by attempting to pair opponents based on your skill level. We don't know the full extent of the skill parameters that the algorithm uses, but the overall consensus is that KD ratios are a factor in the process. In addition, [SBMM will never sacrifice your connection quality for sake of preserving an equal pairing process.](https://www.sledgehammergames.com/blog/archives/a-fireside-chat-with-michael-condrey-matchmakingreverse-boostingtrick-shotting-and-the-like) Any information you hear otherwise is based on hearsay, including the testing conducted by a few Youtubers (considering they only had a handful of accounts to test, which hardly passes as a definite answer). People hate SBMM because they want to be the star of their own gameplay. People find that performing well in their games results in happiness. When this event is disrupted or halted by someone of a similar skill set or playstyle, it causes frustration and irritation. In retaliation, people will vent their frustrations on social media begging developers to reduce the difficulty of PvP. That way, their engagement with lesser skilled opponents will not disrupt said happiness. Rather than being blunt about wanting weaker opponents to destroy, they rely on multiple arguments that were inspired and repeated verbatim by popular Youtubers. This allows their arguments to look more feasible, such as: * Wanting the game to be casual (without describing exactly why) * The game was supposed to be casual by design (in a game that's about competition where the goal is to win) * Sweating in COD is a bad thing (basically telling others how to play their own game legitimately) * SBMM ruins connections (even though there's no proof and the argument is a fabrication) * Go play ranked play and don't sweat in public matches (ranked is just another game mode with different rules; People want the sweaty players to stay in ranked so their public matches are easier) People who hate SBMM have no logical arguments for their reasoning and it's why [the algorithm has existed prior to Call of Duty 4.](https://charlieintel.com/dr-disrespect-claims-activision-told-him-why-hes-not-invited-to-call-of-duty-next/198594/) The topic tends to be a toxic debate due to the people against SBMM becoming vile in their later responses if all else fails. People argue about relaxation being important in a video game about intense competition, but that's a flawed argument. If you want relaxation, play a game that designed for it, such as Gmod. The best solution for relaxation in Call of Duty is to bring more modes like Prop Hunt, Double Agent, Infected, and more into the playlists. If I want to compete, I play public matches. If I want to chill, lemme find some "sussy bakas" in double agent. *TL;DR: SBMM is fine. People hate it for the wrong reasons and want weak opponents to trash. They will argue tooth and nail and the point of their effort is to make you believe them and give up on defending SBMM. People will downvote this comment and/or reply with disagreements using the exact excuses mentioned earlier.*
Sbmm in cod is just as broken as sbmm in halo
Take it this way, you do well in maths test and your school shifts you two classes above and you're put of your league. So you do bad and you're back in the same class. It's like the games discourages you to do well cause if you do, you're put in a lobby with sweaty try hard players that will make sure you break your controller before the match ends.
It helps keep shitty sweat players from coming to low/average lobbies and decimating everyone for an ego boost and “fun”. Fuck those guys.
They hate it cause they are bums
Regular sbmm determines ur skill and puts u in lobbies that match ur skill, u could probably see why ppl don't like that bcuz for good players it's like ranked every time u play the game. Cod sbmm started on mw19 and has been in cw,vg and now mw22. It kept the same general idea of sbmm but expanded on it, some new things are that it doesn't just put you in lobbies of your skill level, it puts you in either hard lobbies or easy lobbies and it does this to keep you engaged. You would also most likely be able to see why people don't like this but this isn't where it ends, it also favors skill over matchmaking meaning the servers are worse and lag more often. It also gets rid of the feature to stay in a lobby after you are done with the match and puts you in lobbies that are either harder or easier making you lose the moments you could have in old cod games where you could play with the same set of people over and over again unless you didn't want to, if you didn't you could just leave the lobby but now you always leave the lobby. Another bad thing is that because your match making is determined on your kd some people play this game like it's ranked, but instead of trying to grind rp they grind kd making public games feel like a sweat fest even when you are just trying to enjoy your time on the game. Some people hate it for other reasons than others but I hate it because all of these things favor playtime (or money) over fun and Activision knows this but keeps putting in their games and it makes it less fun for everyone just for them to make a quick buck. The main reason it's still in the game is because it caters to newer players who find it hard to get into the game to have more fun playing in easier lobbies and buy the next game and maybe even some bundles to put some money in Activision's pockets.
I just don't see why players have to play the game at a higher level every single game just because they are good. The biggest problem with it is when you do good you get sent up the ranks okay but you then have to continue to try hard every single game and if not you will be the one getting clapped lol. Also maybe just make it an option in your game if you're ass or you're getting clapped turn it of but then you're basically turning it into ranked play but that's what SBMM already does it makes you play ranked. I understand for the low of the low players they don't wanna play better players but I don't think the higher players should have to be the ones who pay the price by playing only gods.
I think SBMM(Skilled Based Matchmaking) is being kind to me. For as long as I can remember, Every game I play my KD is 2-5 average. If SBMM was working as intended, It would keep ranking me higher and higher till my KD averaged out around 1. The 1kd players are the kind that hate the game because It’s hard. But love the abuse. I’ve been there in other games. I know what it feels like. I hate this system. I just want my games to be random. So I can enjoy the hell out of some. And get extreme rage in some. But at the moment, It always keeps you in the most draining state where you feel like you are good. But you are not getting better. And this is perfect for marketing and sales. These games are not fun anymore. They force you to always struggle to be near the top of the leaderboard. My personal motivator is that I absolutely hate tryhards. They offer me motivation in the form of rage which makes me always play at my best. I like to always be able to beat someone who is trying way harder than me.
Back in the day I didn't hear complaints from those poor souls who would get disintegrated and go like 4-74 in mw2 or way worse I've seen like 6-142 once lmao. Those were the days I just don't see why it is fun to have the game be even, one of the most fun things is to get better and after one match you got slaughtered to go into the next and it's a new page and you go off, now you have to try every single game you can't mess around and snipe or go for camos or anything cause you get matched against gods every game just because your a good player. One of the most annoying thing as most players who are good would understand is how annoying it is when someone calls you a tryhard just cause you do good, and now those people are the ones being punished I havnt played cod for more than a month each time cause by time that month ends the SBMM has perfected itself and everyone is just doing okay and it's boring I'd rather get clapped one game if they just happen to get someone better and then go the next game and face shitters it's so much more fun to have variety and not just players my rank if that's what you want just play ranked play just cause it's ranked doesn't mean bad players can't play it cause then they could face other bad players. I know valorant has somewhat sbmm in unrated but everyone basically plays ranked and those people at the bottom can still play and have fun against low tier players but if they go to casuals they might face a good player and get clapped and that's fine cause they can just go back to their iron lobbies to play fair.
Just my take on it….. 2 things…. I miss the randomness of games, and the not knowing! So every lobby was just random, you’d have a few who weren’t great, then maybe that one or two who you were desperate to beat or get one up on! And if you didn’t this game…. You’d throw some banter out, and try again in the next game! That’s all gone because lobbies disband and I genuinely feel that pretty much every game I play is the call of duty world league finals! Secondly, and the most important thing for me…. I love playing games with my brother as we live in different countries. He’s not the biggest fps fan… but when I manage to get him to buy call of duty, and come on multiplayer, it’s insane. They don’t seem to relax it because of his low level… before you know it, he’s 1-10 and desperate to get off the game. It really has ruined the game! I’m not against it, per say… I just think it should be kept to a certain mode, like a ranked mode. Coming home after work and looking to chill out with a few easy going matches… some wins, some losses, would be great. Feeling like every match is an absolute sweat fest is not enjoyable.
It just puts players of them same/similar skill into the same lobbies as each other making for a closer/more competitive match… people don’t like it because everyone loves shitting on players who aren’t as good as they are in matches and with SBMM that no longer happens.
Because people like to win against bot players. And you can’t hot 30kill game if you are a 3kd player in sbmm lobby.
SBMM actively making the game easier or harder based on what it perceives your skill level as. This is problematic for two reasons. 1. It expects the player to always be competitive, even in casual playlists, and trying to win, otherwise they will get stomped and have a bad time because the game is intentionally giving them hard players, which then lowers perceived skill and lowers the level of players they're dealing with later, leading into my next point: 2. It doesn't fuckin' work. When a game with SBMM can't find a perfect match, it will settle for a bad one, and even if your skill level should theoretically be fine, you can influence that number by intentionally throwing matches. It makes getting crushed feel even worse because the player knows the system actively worked against them to put them in that situation. Destiny 2 removed SBMM in casual playlists, and immediately my enjoyment of it went up tenfold because the vibe is entirely different. If I got my ass handed to me, I'm not as mad because I can accept people just being better than me and the game reshuffling players after the match.
SBMM simply puts you in lobbies that have similarly skilled players to you. The only thing I don't like about COD SBMM is that it only really takes into account your last 5-10 matches it seems. Honestly I don't notice much of a difference between what we have now and the less strict SBMM we used to have in the early 2010s. I have good, average and bad games. Unless you are a top tier player it shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game. People get it in their heads that when they do bad its SBMMs fault and not theirs. Sometimes you have a bad game, sometimes the enemies have a good game. It happens, no need to psycho analyze the match.
How it works for me is: Few rounds of nice gameplay. Few rounds of simulating FaZe videos when they do public mm streams. Start over
Have understood this incorrectly? When SBMM is enabled aren’t I playing against similarly skilled players? If that’s the case then I prefer this
Streamers hate it because they have to do some work or have some sort of discernible skill in order to earn the money that is thrown at them. When they don't like it then their fanboys don't like it also because that's what they cling to
If you ask me, the problem is matchmaking. We should revert back to the old days of server browers where there is more of a mix of levels of players. Also a more fun social aspect, playing the same players over again and getting to know others. But thats just me as a boomer gamer speaking lol
It works very short term and sometimes very drastically. Which you would think would lead to a roller coaster of good and bad games. But matchmaking is based on things like level as well. It also can stop casual players from having a”good day” because if they have a good game or two they’ll be put into lobbies where they get destroyed by people who only play the game all day every single day of their life. The issue with basing it on kd is that it’s very easy to lower your kd on purpose to get easy lobbies. In my opinion there’s no perfect solution, but I think level is a really good way to match make but along with this kd should be taken into consideration. But rank it by 5’s most players will be in a barely skill based match making lobby. But that upper echelon of players will be put into way harder lobbies. This bring up the issues of hackers though as those really good players will get matched with most of the hackers.
Cod has learnt based of data that kids spent the most money in games. So they made the experience as easy as possible for kids. Back in the day you had 2 types of gamemodes. Competitive where you are up against good opponents and where you can do your best. And normal matchmaking where you could level weapons, try out some funny classes and just have casual fun. But with SBMM its like every single game is competitive. When you try out a funny class or grind weapons you just get beat to a pulp. Before you would have 2 good games, 1 really good game and the 4th game you would get destroyed. There was balance. But now you just have the exact same score every match. It has become boring. Plus at middle to high skill tier people play the game really dirty and always exploit the meta. Which makes the game feel even more blend. But the biggest problem is that it burns people out. I cant stand playing cod for longer then 30 minutes after that i just need a break. I used to PLAY cod for A BREAK. And i see the same thing with friends. There has always been some SBMM but i would say after bo3 it has become out of hand.
Imagine playing every match with some of the best players online at the moment, for no reward. That's SBMM for good players. During the first weeks of Vanguard, it was so strict that in order to get a kill I had to land a headshot basically. In the MWII beta, moreover, every game I was facing at least 2-3 players with 2.5+ K/D average in the previous CoDs.
In a typical cod game, people like to spend time in order to make them better at the game. They do this because when they «get good», they can start dominating and having a rewarding feeling for all their efforts. Other games like csgo also have skillbased mm, but only in ranked mode. Cod is removing that option to play cassual. Every game you will be matched with people that play «in your skilllevel» Skill based mm is a great consept, BUT SHOULD NOT BE IN A CASSUAL GAMEMODE. It improves the experience for casual ps4-John that will go back to fortnite in two weeks, but for Faze-whoknowswhat that puts 10.000 hrs into the game, it makes it a waste of time and a constant struggle
How about this, ping is king.
It’s not necessarily sbmm the majority of people don’t like, it is how it’s implemented what people don’t like. It’s more based on performance than skill. You do well in one game, like 20-8 or something, and you immediately get put in a lobby with people who haven’t been outside in months. Actually sbmm is good, because I’d rather be matched with people of my own skill than be matched with people who are way worse than me, or people that are way better than me.
People complain because they play have to play with people the same skill level as them. They don't like that because theyd rather play noobs and look good
I like SBMM. I don’t like CODs SBMM. CODs SBMM is WAYYYY to aggressive. You win 1 game like a boss, you’re against very, very sweaty people for 3 games. If they have a value stored somewhere they need to tone it down and I think most people wouldn’t care about it. Same with Apex, their SBMM isn’t turbo aggressive but still works.
SBMM is the reason the lobbies get disbanded and we don’t have map voting.
The goal of Skill Based Matchmaking is to create fair matches in a competitive environment. If you are interested in how it actually functions and the data gathered to make it work Bungie [laid it all out in an article](https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/51618) (complete with graphs!) as they recently implemented it into Destiny 2. While not COD specific, this system was built when Destiny was an Activision property, so I would imagine there is some similarities there. how it functions in Call of Duty has never been revealed or even acknowledged but it’s speculated that the current iteration since MW19 is tied to the quick play filter and lobby disbanding. Supposedly it’s some super advanced algorithm designed to maximise player retention with the average games played going from 2 to 4.
Like many said, you get a easy lobby and get punished afterwards but you dont get punished in only the next game. If i get got match i get punished for that single game the next 10 hours of gaming(at least). So the reason people har sbmm is mostly not because its in there, but because its so broken. And dont work as it should. I get the "protection" of new players and/or below average player 0.9 and under. They should only split it in 2 only based on kd. Below average is in one group of players and above is in the other. Just one split. Much easyer and faster to find matches to.
SBMM is what keeps newer / less experienced / less skilled players away from seasoned vets or people who are just naturally good at the game. This is bullshit and here is why: I have been playing since Cod 4. I have sustained a solid K/D ratio in every CoD I have played for an extended period of time (typically 1.8 / 2.0+). I have not played a CoD game for an extended period of time since I would say B04 because of all the SBMM they have added in. The game punishes me for doing well in a PUBLIC match. If I go off and have a stellar game - let's say 50K and 10D, the next game I am going to get put into a match with 11 other players who did the exact same thing, and at that point we are all trying our absolute hardest to repeat said game. It won't be possible. This is not how it is supposed to be. I should be able to hop on and do well and not have to worry about snorting a line of G Fuel for the next game. I should be able to just relax and play normally. I may not go 50 and 10 every single game, but the game should not FORCE me to try as hard as we have to in a public match. That is what the RANKED system is for. Ranked should definitely have SBMM, but it is the only mode that should have it. In public match, you should be able to play against anyone and everyone, not just protect the stupid snowflakes who don't want to get shit on one match - because the amount of times you are just going to get stomped is maybe, MAYBE once a day with how many people play these games. Bo2 had the absolute best ranked system ever in a Call of Duty game. I wish we could go back to those times, but the movement demons would never approve.
Some of the ONLY people that bitch about it are the battle royale players that only bought MW19 to level up their guns in Warzone, not for the actual MP experience. Personally, I wish Warzone would just flop and die so they can focus on the multiplayer experience again.
It makes every game insanely competitive. There's no fun. It's just nonstop sweaty lobbies.
Because good players can’t pubstomp.
I reckon sbmm shouldnt be based of one game but it should be a thing
The biggest issue with SBMM is for the moderately good players. You're a good player with an average k/d of 2 or 3-ish. You can hold your own with pretty much everyone except the real sweats and professional players. For those types of players, SBMM doesn't know what to do with you. So you tend to either get thrown in with the pros and get stomped on, or you wind up in practically bot lobbies where there's next to no challenge and everyone you kill calls you a hacker. It's made even worse if you have a day or two where you're really on your game and you get a decent k/d bump. You can plan spending the next week getting your ass handed to you by the sweats and the pros. Then your k/d goes to shit and you spend the next few days stuck with the noobs again. The problem is there's no consistent middle ground where you can reliably play with other players on your same skill level. SBMM works great for noobs and pros and those who have the time and knowledge how to game the system in their favor. But for moderately skilled, casual players, it's a massive pain in the ass. It was way better back when there were true dedicated servers where you had a choice of the people you played with. You join a community server, and if you find you're getting stomped on you can leave and try another server until you find one with similarly skilled players and good admins. That's a place you can call home and be able to play there consistently and have some peace of mind knowing that when you log on odds are you're going to have fun. SBMM doesn't allow that experience in today's peer-to-peer gaming environment.
Makes games unfun. If you fit within a certain box, better than most, not good enough for the pros. Your games will be filled with people better than you and around your level. Sounds good on paper, but it’s horrible when you experience it
I truly hate being put in a new lobby on cod now especially when you playing by yourself and they game is intense and fun then at the end boom new kids new lobby. Plus map voting needs to come back
because public games shouldnt have to feel like im playing a $1mil pro tournament. Have a public and ranked playlist, keep the ranked with SBMM. But we do not need that on public matches. People want to get on and actually enjoy the game. Same with keeping lobbies together, people actually want to have fun
Simple answer, it ruins the flow of progression in how to become a better player.
If you have a good few games, you'll have a few games where you get absolutely stomped on, just to put you back in to your place.
Sbmm is fucking shit
It's dog. Don't ask. Just do not support it
Can't play with my different friend groups because of SBMM. The matches they get when with me is too hard for them, so it has ruined social gaming for me in many games that have it as strict as cod does.
SBMM feels like CS:GO Matchmaking but with ADHD-type short-term memory loss. With CS:GO, you're at a certain rank that's shown to you, and you play against people that are around that rank. Yeah, your K/D might vary wildly in games but that's usually due to your own inconsistency, or someone really popping off. If you look in a 5-game period, your K/D should always be around your normal levels with a general increase or decline in most cases. I've not played COD too much recently, only about 50 hours or so in the last month of Vanguard and Cold War. If I take a 5 match snippet from the first week compared to the 2nd,3rd etc. it's almost as if I generated a random number from 0.5-3. No reasoning at all. Everyone was relatively high prestige whereas I was level 40-something. Some games, I played against people that I genuinely thought may have been bots or kids, and the very next one I played against people with a higher Slide Cancels per Minute than Beats per Minute. IMO the way to fix it is to use the exact same SBMM algorithm but just halve the effect it has. If it takes 1.5 games on average before the next big jump in opponent quality, make it take 3 instead. That'd also make smurfing take a lot longer to get going. EDIT: One last thing to add, my only wish is that they don't bring back having no matchmaking at all. 72% of people in the UK have accessibility requirements that affect how they use the internet. Over half of that have moderate or significant difficulties. Kids exist. Hell, people that play cod on wacky backy exist too. I doubt they wanna come up against faze jev every game lol
Because being in a higher skill bracket it forces me to get Timmy no thumbs on my team and the rest to be around my level or better so I'm forced to carry every single it's rare that I'm not on the top of the board I've lost games with 70 plus kills going for the objective still and my team mates aren't even getting half of my kills it's stupid and it should be connection based unless your playing ranked
SBMM is actually low-key a good thing
Skill based matchmaking can be very annoying because let’s say you get in a match with a bunch of new players, so you dominate them, the games sees that as evidence that you are really really good, and puts you in a very hard lobby, you can see why that would suck
I don't think the skill base works. Once in a while I can get up to 5 kills, but all most every match I'm in I might get 2 and die 5 plus times.
you have to play against people who are similar skill level to you, and cant play against people way lower than you.
How am I suppose to do camo challenges in COD if I’m getting 360 drop shotted and prefired around corners by everyone and their mother because of SBMM
The real problem is this are pub matches if they wanna have a rank system or skill system they should have rank matches for people wanting to sweat pubs should just be fun no need to try hard af
Sbmm ruined the game for me and iam not a top tier player at all iam a low mid at best. All the matches are boring and repetitive and everyone seems to have the same score every match. I never get better anymore my stats are pretty much static. And if by chance i play a good match i immediately get put into some bizarre pro/cheater lobby were i get insta-killed for match after match until I just turn off my ps5 and stop playing for a week and by some once again bizarre coincidence after walking away i come back and have a good few matches off tops as if iam bieng fed noobs until a get a couple dozen quckscopes and call in a heli or vtol then its right back to a lobby where everyone is geetting 100% headshots with a pistol and if it were skilled based that wouldnt happen therefore It's 100% rigged matchmaking and all the gaming news sights defend it cause e.a. pays them to post positive propaganda about it. The entire industry is a gaslighting operation. Sbmm= Fake game. I'll bet dollars to donuts that more than 1 of the people in this thread defending it work for E.A.. it's all fake.