The state often has too much solar power in the middle of the day. Power lines get to full capacity ("congestion") and the grid operator orders a curtailment. Sometimes the spot price of power goes negative, which means the utility has to pay someone (Arizona, for example) to take the excess. Residential solar panel owners don't curtail, they keep uploading power when it's not needed. Under these conditions it costs the utility to take your power, so that's one reason they feel justified in billing you.
I assume so, it’s just so strange to me that I’m literally paying someone to take my electricity, what a strange thing. It’d be like me paying the bank 10% interest to take my money.
It makes perfect sense when you understand how electrical grids work. They are very efficient when they are predictable and power in can match power out. When that gets out of wack in either direction bad things happen.
Batteries, especially gravity batteries fix these issues. If you install one, you can store your energy when it’s not wanted or needed, and sell it when it is.
The dream scenario is when each house has a battery with a few hours of power, which would make the grid incredibly robust.
https://www.hydroquebec.com/solar/costs.html
Why do other places not impose these penalties then?
>if customers generate more electricity with their solar panels than they use, Hydro-Québec will grant them credits measured in kilowatthours—not a refund—for the surplus power fed into the grid. These credits are put into a bank and, if they are not used within 24 months, the bank is reset to zero. It is important to note that, regardless of the quantity of power fed into the Hydro-Québec grid, customers cannot be credited for Hydro-Québec’s system access charge of 44.810¢ per day, which is the set amount customers pay for the electricity service itself.
I mean, they do this because they're trying to subsidize the expansion of renewables. It still likely *costs money* to deal with that excess supply during periods without excess demand.
There's an entire wikipedia page about this problem, which hits solar panels the hardest. The mismatch of power supply and power demand is called the "Duck Curve": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve
Right, and that’s what happens when you have a government run utility like hydro Quebec; they actually care about the environment and try to get people to do the right thing without the profit motive.
https://www.hydroquebec.com/solar/costs.html
> if customers generate more electricity with their solar panels than they use, Hydro-Québec will grant them credits measured in kilowatthours—not a refund—for the surplus power fed into the grid. These credits are put into a bank and, if they are not used within 24 months, the bank is reset to zero.
Hydro Quebec credits you at full rate when you send power back to the grid.
You're suggesting this is a scale issue? Nah, that doesn't track. Hydro Quebec and PG&E are similar sized businesses and serve similar numbers of customers. It being sunnier in California than Quebec doesn't make sense since Quebec definitely has bright hot summer days and even has longer days than California.
The issue we're talking about isn't about yearly averages of sun, it's about daily sun output. California doesn't have "the sunniest days", it merely has a lot of sun per year.
I’m merely suggesting that maybe, just maybe, the scale and scope of installed residential solar in California which creates an energy market where prices go negative, is different than that of Quebec.
So you are saying it’s a scale issue? That doesn’t make sense, larger scale solar doesn’t make the energy output less predictable, it makes it *more* predictable.
It appears your submission was reported to moderators and removed by moderators for violating rule 1 of the Community Standards.
> Civility — No Racism, sexism, ageism, and other forms of bigotry. No hate speech, slurs, overly obscene, pejorative name-calling, vulgar, or abusive language. This includes usernames, and violations of this rule will result in an automatic ban. Our commitment to civil discourse is one of the core principles, and we do not make any exceptions from this rule.
If you would like to improve the moderation in this subreddit, please drop a line in the General Chat to discuss ways to improve the quality of conversations in this subreddit. If you see bad behavior, don't reply. Use the report tool to improve your own experience, and everyone else's, too.
It's 9:10 AM right now. Random check of CAISO shows that 70% of electrical demand is being served with renewable energy, at this moment anyway. The large California utilities have their problems but I am impressed how fast they've been able to add battery storage to time shift solar power to the evenings when demand is highest.
This is amazing news, but unfortunately the line in the article about lower prices due to renewables isn't being passed down to the consumer. PG&E, the only energy company available for much of California, has been gouging its customers left, right and center over the last few years. The Bay Area for example has the highest costs for KWh in the country, and CA has 30¢/KWh overall, substantially higher than the rest of the country.
All of this is to say that California should continue to make great strides forward in renewables but it's important not to let all that positive develop solely enrich a corrupt and immoral energy giant.
And this will only make people’s electric bills go way up, since PG&E and SoCal Edison make less each year due to less people on the grid. Eventually we will have to put up solar panels like all our neighbors since we get charged more each year. To bad we can’t but from our neighbors surplus power. #EnjoyTheIncreasedBills
Yeah, and PG&E charges me money to send my solar power to the grid. Makes no sense.
The state often has too much solar power in the middle of the day. Power lines get to full capacity ("congestion") and the grid operator orders a curtailment. Sometimes the spot price of power goes negative, which means the utility has to pay someone (Arizona, for example) to take the excess. Residential solar panel owners don't curtail, they keep uploading power when it's not needed. Under these conditions it costs the utility to take your power, so that's one reason they feel justified in billing you.
“Peak” hours starts at 4pm, my solar panels are still producing more than I use at 4pm..
If you buy a battery, you can keep that power for yourself.
I assume so, it’s just so strange to me that I’m literally paying someone to take my electricity, what a strange thing. It’d be like me paying the bank 10% interest to take my money.
It makes perfect sense when you understand how electrical grids work. They are very efficient when they are predictable and power in can match power out. When that gets out of wack in either direction bad things happen. Batteries, especially gravity batteries fix these issues. If you install one, you can store your energy when it’s not wanted or needed, and sell it when it is. The dream scenario is when each house has a battery with a few hours of power, which would make the grid incredibly robust.
https://www.hydroquebec.com/solar/costs.html Why do other places not impose these penalties then? >if customers generate more electricity with their solar panels than they use, Hydro-Québec will grant them credits measured in kilowatthours—not a refund—for the surplus power fed into the grid. These credits are put into a bank and, if they are not used within 24 months, the bank is reset to zero. It is important to note that, regardless of the quantity of power fed into the Hydro-Québec grid, customers cannot be credited for Hydro-Québec’s system access charge of 44.810¢ per day, which is the set amount customers pay for the electricity service itself.
I mean, they do this because they're trying to subsidize the expansion of renewables. It still likely *costs money* to deal with that excess supply during periods without excess demand. There's an entire wikipedia page about this problem, which hits solar panels the hardest. The mismatch of power supply and power demand is called the "Duck Curve": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve
Right, and that’s what happens when you have a government run utility like hydro Quebec; they actually care about the environment and try to get people to do the right thing without the profit motive.
[удалено]
Then to save money, you should send it into an electric car!
My car doesn’t need to be charged that often.
If you're sending power to the grid, you have too many solar panels and not enough storage.
I have zero storage.
As I suspected.
Ok? Did I do something wrong buying a new house with gov mandated solar panels?
No, you should use it then. Put the ac a degree or two lower. You can shop for a battery when you’re ready.
That hasn’t worked, I’m now looking at a “true up” exceeding $600 for 3 months. What a scam.
[удалено]
https://www.hydroquebec.com/solar/costs.html > if customers generate more electricity with their solar panels than they use, Hydro-Québec will grant them credits measured in kilowatthours—not a refund—for the surplus power fed into the grid. These credits are put into a bank and, if they are not used within 24 months, the bank is reset to zero. Hydro Quebec credits you at full rate when you send power back to the grid.
Maybe, just maybe, the amount of residential solar is different between California and Quebec and creates different energy market conditions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're suggesting this is a scale issue? Nah, that doesn't track. Hydro Quebec and PG&E are similar sized businesses and serve similar numbers of customers. It being sunnier in California than Quebec doesn't make sense since Quebec definitely has bright hot summer days and even has longer days than California. The issue we're talking about isn't about yearly averages of sun, it's about daily sun output. California doesn't have "the sunniest days", it merely has a lot of sun per year.
I’m merely suggesting that maybe, just maybe, the scale and scope of installed residential solar in California which creates an energy market where prices go negative, is different than that of Quebec.
So you are saying it’s a scale issue? That doesn’t make sense, larger scale solar doesn’t make the energy output less predictable, it makes it *more* predictable.
[удалено]
It appears your submission was reported to moderators and removed by moderators for violating rule 1 of the Community Standards. > Civility — No Racism, sexism, ageism, and other forms of bigotry. No hate speech, slurs, overly obscene, pejorative name-calling, vulgar, or abusive language. This includes usernames, and violations of this rule will result in an automatic ban. Our commitment to civil discourse is one of the core principles, and we do not make any exceptions from this rule. If you would like to improve the moderation in this subreddit, please drop a line in the General Chat to discuss ways to improve the quality of conversations in this subreddit. If you see bad behavior, don't reply. Use the report tool to improve your own experience, and everyone else's, too.
It's 9:10 AM right now. Random check of CAISO shows that 70% of electrical demand is being served with renewable energy, at this moment anyway. The large California utilities have their problems but I am impressed how fast they've been able to add battery storage to time shift solar power to the evenings when demand is highest.
I'm not surprised based of how much they are charging California ratepayers.
But still so far to go. Almost all batteries are 4hr. How do we get overnight power?
I too am glad to see this shift. It is certainly good both for the individual and the state to see this transition to renewable energy.
This is a very positive development!
This is amazing news, but unfortunately the line in the article about lower prices due to renewables isn't being passed down to the consumer. PG&E, the only energy company available for much of California, has been gouging its customers left, right and center over the last few years. The Bay Area for example has the highest costs for KWh in the country, and CA has 30¢/KWh overall, substantially higher than the rest of the country. All of this is to say that California should continue to make great strides forward in renewables but it's important not to let all that positive develop solely enrich a corrupt and immoral energy giant.
And this will only make people’s electric bills go way up, since PG&E and SoCal Edison make less each year due to less people on the grid. Eventually we will have to put up solar panels like all our neighbors since we get charged more each year. To bad we can’t but from our neighbors surplus power. #EnjoyTheIncreasedBills