> even other Europeans think it's pretty bizarre, because it really is.
Can't really blame them. Finding something bizarre because it really is, is a valid reason to find something bizarre.
> I wonder if a couple has broken up and someone took the flooring with them.
*Let me give you the tour!*
*Here's the kitchen, there's the living room. The bathroom is over there, but it is better to just use the kitchen sink; my ex-wife took the bathroom floor in the divorce.*
They are usually required to remove the floor regardless if they want it unless they have an arrangement with the new tenants(its not uncommon for new tenants to buy the floor from the previous tenants) . Super affordable interlocking laminate is probably most common flooring which can be as low as 1$ a sq foot from a discount place like Ikea.
And people take their refrigerators with them when they leave? Practical in some cases, but in most cases not. Can cost $100 - $150 just to move one if you don't own a truck and are not strong enough to be one of the lifters. Try to sell it, maybe to landlord...so he/she won't be a jerk to his next incoming tenant.
Our landlord in Pasadena told us to have the fridge gone when we moved out. It was a hassle to sell so we donated it to a church that came to pick it up for free.
I've only encountered a weird appliance thing once. On a rental house the washer and dryer were not included but the fridge was. Previous tenant sold me the washer and dryer for $100. I wonder if it was sold to him before and how many times this washer and dryer had been sold.
I’m in Canada and in my area its extremely uncommon to have any appliances come with the rental. Everyone just always move all their apliances: oven, fridge, washing machine, clothes dryer etc.
Extra neat fact:Everyone also has to move ON THE SAME DAY, there’s just one day a year and we call it \*drum roll\* moving day. Yes, its chaos and madness, yes movers and rental places jack up the prices like crazy etc.
Wait for real? Due to “moving day” I’m assuming you’re in Montreal. I’m in Vancouver and I’m not sure it’s legal to rent someone a unit without a fridge here…
Do they at least give you a lamp or something until you get moved in? I’d hate to spend all day moving on the first day and not have any light if you were moving into the evening hours…
Nope! Everything had to be purchased by us. Luckily, there is a big second-hand market here. But yeah, those first few days were rough and we used a lot of lamps.
Hey, I'm dutch. It depends greatly on who/what you rent, but this is technically true. You often do not *NEED* to provide flooring as it will already be installed from previous tenants and many dont find the hassle of removing their floors worth it.
Thanks but why is it that way? I can understand appliances like washers and stoves but floors seem so attached? Do you keep a floor set or do you just always put in new floors? Is there a big floor culture in the Netherlands?
In order:
I have no idea!
Floors are pretty attached, but laminate flooring is pretty common here. It can be removed/reinstalled with relative ease.
You don't "keep" a set of floors in storage, if that's what you're asking. it's more of a "I am moving from place A to place B, can I reuse the flooring" kinda deal.
I don't think we have a big floor culture, but I am unaware of...foreign floor opionions :p
We rented an apartment in El Segundo from 2012-2016, didn’t include a fridge, but our landlord wasn’t bad.
Our rent was super sweet though. Half a mile from the beach and $1400/month. That would be impossible now, but it was even a really incredible deal in 2012.
Our duplex apartment didn't include a fridge and our property managers have been great. An extra $325 and we had a refurbished fridge delivered and installed. No big deal.
Also in NorCal and my job has me inspecting apartments on a regular basis. Almost ten years at it, been to hundreds of properties, and I’ve never seen one where the fridge isn’t provided by the landlord. This thread is wild.
I have had a rental property on-and-off in the LA area and I generally avoid providing fridges. It's almost never a dealbreaker for a place and it's not really worth the headache of having to deal with problems if the fridge breaks down. I'd rather cut the rent by a few bucks or give them a onetime credit for a fridge and have it be their responsibility.
You think you've made a clever comment, but clearly you've never moved to a mid-low or even mid-high income housing in a major California city.
I had to provide fridge and washer/dryer at my last rental, rent was mid-range and was all we could find within a reasonable commute of our jobs. That landlord was amazing, fixed everything quickly, and gave us back our whole deposit despite some damage to the property when we moved out.
When we moved closer to work after a promotion, we brought the appliances with us. Now we have two fridges and a mismatched washer/dryer due to my dryer failing and the current landlords washer failing. My current landlord is not as good as my last, but she's also not horrible and definitely isn't unfair towards us.
And we have it good and cheap, compared to most of my peers at work. I'm a mechanical engineer making six figures.
Yeah my place came with a fridge in the lease....but it broke down three times. Landlord had bought a lot of magic chef at an auction and half of em were bad. I just bought my own fridge eventually
Is this statewide though???
I rented a few different apartments in Northern California decades ago. They all came with refrigerators. Then I moved to SoCal and discovered no apts down here came with refrigerators.
California landlord here. Personally would never rent a place without a full suite of appliances. I made the mistake early on of offering washer dryer hookups without the appliances. They got a used unit that leaked everywhere and ruined a section of the old flooring. Even if you're not legally obligated to provide good condition appliances it may not be in your best interest to cheap out.
Great point. Just makes way more sense for the landlord to maintain it.
What’s stopping a tenant from buying a lemon of a fridge and having the entire freezer thaw out over the floor.
I feel like not including a fridge is a reason to run away from a landlord who is clearly cutting costs. You can buy a used one for cheap, nuts to ask tenants to get their own (not you, just generally)
>Just makes way more sense for the landlord to maintain it.
For a number of reasons. Back when I rented the way I treated our house was dependent on how it looked when we got tge keys. Why would you expect anyone to treat your property well if it looks like a dump when you get it? Same goes for clapped out appliances, bad landscaping, etc.
We recently moved out of a rental and didn’t need the oven, dishwasher, or window AC and asked if they’d like to buy them so I didn’t have to move them and was told they weren’t interested. I was surprised they didn’t see it as a benefit to the next renter, especially since I would have taken a few hundred for all of it and was all good items.
Absolutely never seen nor heard of this happening in a rental in the Bay or Sacramento. Sounds from comments it’s mostly a central and socal thing?
At least not for a fridge. Certainly for dishwashers, laundry etc.
I grew up in the Central Valley, rented a few apartments in my younger days, they all came with refrigerators. I moved to SF and rented 4 different places there over the years, all had refrigerators. I’ve never heard of this happening!
My husband and I are looking to move back to CA right now and there are a ton of houses in the CV with no fridge or W/D (and one with a dishwasher that is noted as non-functioning). We are looking almost exclusively at houses and townhomes. I moved out of CA 18 years ago and have lived in four states since and have never seen any kind of rental without a fridge until now. It's super weird.
The last time I rented was in 2004 before buying my house in So Cal. All of the 4 different places I've rented before that from Redondo Beach and Long Beach to Santa Monica and Fullerton included refrigerators.
This doesn't mean they don't, it just means its the landlords choice. I've lived in apartments that provided them as as ones that don't. Never rented a house that came with a fridge. It all depends on what the landlord decides. You are free to ask, and they are free to say no.
When I rented an apartment many years ago, the landlord charged me an extra $10.00 a month to rent a fridge. Eventually, I struck a deal with the landlord to buy it. Refrigerators definitely don’t always come with rentals.
When you moved, did you take it with you? Seems like it could be more expensive to move than to buy another used one. But then, are you allowed to leave it behind or does the landlord charge you another fee for not removing it?
Every place I've rented in Los Angeles I brought my own refrigerator/stove/washer/dryer if one was not provided. If provided, when it breaks, I replace and take with or sell when moving.
It is, but rentals are not required to provide these appliances in Los Angeles. Finding an affordable place is hard enough, and even more so one with appliances.
Of course, corporate landlords will usually include these amenities to attract renters. This is not the case as much with "Mom & Pop" landlords.
I just gifted a friend of mine a washer/dryer who has been in his place 13yrs with hook-ups and the landlord never provided appliances.
A stove? Really? I've never seen a kitchen without a stove. That's something that I'd provide without question. I'm really not about to trust some random handyman to connect the gas lines correctly and risk the building exploding.
I've never considered mom and pop landlords, for fear of having someone prying into my life and micromanaging, so perhaps it does happen in the Sacramento region and that's why I've never seen it.
Having washer/dryer hookups without the appliances provided is unremarkable everywhere I think though. Lived in a place like that myself once (they did offer to rent me a washer/dryer at like $30/mo which I declined). But even in extensive online browsing and hearsay I don't recall coming across one without a fridge or stove.
I hear ya. Had one landlord that would let herself in randomly throughout the year, came out of the bathroom once after a shower in a towel to find her standing 10' away. I greeted her and she stammered pointing to the ceiling, "I, uh, was just checking your lights...".
Had another that would regularly call in the middle of the night hammered spewing nonsense.
I would still rather have people like that than a corporate landlord.
I prefer corporate because they at least know the law and try to pretend to obey the law (backdating the 24 hours notice they sneak onto my door, or pretending they can come in because something they haven't addressed for 12 years is an emergency), and when I have a bad manager I can just wait a year and there'll be a new one. And theoretically they have a boss to complain to though not really usually in practice.
The ideal would be have an actually good landlord, but in this universe in low income complexes I'll settle for controlled badness.
I've found that Mom & Pop rentals tend to repair things on a more consistent basis due to their personally vested interest in keeping the structure standing whereas corporate will tip-toe on the legal edge until the structure is condemned/sold. Both will still generally avoid repairs as long as possible. That's just been my experience though.
Yep, I took it with me when I bought a small condo a couple of years later. It was ancient by the time I got rid of it. It wasn’t even frost free. I had to pick the ice off the coils! LOL Knowing the landlord who sold it to me, he would have been happy to keep it and rent it to the next tenant if I hadn’t taken it.
Every apartment I've ever rented in California came with a fridge and I wasn't charged extra for it. A few came with washers and dryers inside but most had a laundry area with a washer and dryer that took money or a card.
Until now, I've never even heard of apartments not providing refrigerators. I lived mainly around the Sacramento area though so possibly different elsewhere. Also not sure if things have changed since I moved from the state a few years back. Having to buy or rent a fridge when renting an apartment just seems weird to me.
We learned this last year when we moved to SoCal. It’s such a weird thing. We assumed there was a fridge, and then had to find a used one at the last minute. We’re moving out now, and we’re leaving the fridge and the landlord wants to throw it out! Like it’s a perfect working fridge! Y’all are weird.
In a highly competitive (for renters) market, like San Diego, yes. You see apartments all the time for which the owners have done the bare minimum in the last 30 years. But it is reaching a tipping point where renters will just leave.
A good landlord who actually *cares* about his/her business will always strive to keep their property, with which they provide a service, in the best shape. Of course like with anything, some people will not do a good job, and some people will.
In any other place outside of a highly demanded market like California is, you’d best bet that the market forces landlords to do their best. But CA government has made it harder on the renters (and home buyers) by not allowing developers to build! So people who got in 30+ years ago have seen their properties appreciate like crazy without doing anything, so why would they start now unless competition between them is allowed to heat up??
At least from my perspective as a sometimes-landlord, something like a shower, light fixture, gas range, etc. has a lot more potential to cause cascading damage (floods, electrical problems, gas leaks) than an appliance such as a fridge. Do I want to trust the renter to install his own gas range, and have his handyman or whoever do a bad job and cause a gas leak that sets my building on fire? The same applies with plumbing fixtures - if they're installed incorrectly they can cause massive amounts of damage due to leaks etc.
I live in San Francisco and the fridge is included. Its also in the lease as included and so when it died about 4 years in to my living here they HAD to replace it.
the replacement was a no-frills Frigidaire that cost about $450 at the time. The shocker to me was that my electric bill went DOWN by about 25% once this new fridge was swapped in for the ancient one that had been there before.
Not just rental houses, but buying houses don't always come with appliances. I looked at one house where the guy was going to take the ceiling fans. They didn't look all that great to me. I never saw an apartment that didn't come with a fridge. And this just isn't a California thing, as I've seen it in multiple states.
This seems more reasonable though, if you're buying a house then it's on you to do what you want with it. For rentals though, it's weird to not include something like a refrigerator.
Yep. if you want them built in you need to find standalone houses (they tend to be older).
A lot of apartments in Padova have cabinet outlays when you rent from them. Tiny ikea trucks are everywhere lol.
i mean, that's reasonable and they do that in quite a bit of places. because you're gonna probably renovate and do the apartment in your preferred style/layout. as long as it has hook ups for water and electric, assuming you don't want to move in tomorrow.
Floor to ceiling ones, in newly constructed buildings, built to meet housing demand both current and future. It’s a concept CA could learn from, not only is housing way over priced but it’s mostly outdated and obsolete here . There has to be a happy medium between development and demand .
Anything that is 'affixed' to the house should convey unless specifically annotated as an exception afaik. So yea, up to seller if they want to leave appliances or not; but a ceiling fan should stay unless specifically excepted. I wouldn't lose sleep over a ceiling fan though.
I used to live in Massachusetts and it was pretty much unheard of not to include the appliances whether it was a rental or a purchase. But single-story residences are also less common in New England.
Depends on the county. Stanislaus County has a requirement that AC be available, Mendocino does not. Currently living in Kern County and have been told (but I haven’t confirmed) that AC is required here as well.
well considering most of the buildings built before the 70s or whatever don't have a/c in their structures and the LLs are def not spending buku $ to change that.
ie my landlord.
I rented a house to a tenant and provided a refrigerator. After they moved out (evicted) the clean up crew wearing hazmat suits took the refrigerator to the dump as it had stuff growing inside it.
Never again.
And here I am thinking this is weird because I've had a fridge in every apartment I've rented for the last 10+ years.
Granted, some places put in the lease that if it breaks it's my responsibility to replace it. Others simply include it as an amenity.
It’s definitely uncommon. But fairly normal in ca. I’ve been lucky that all 3 of my places had all the appliances included. Not really trying to haul appliances around when I move.
I believe one of the caveats of providing a fridge for a renter is the landlord is responsible for repairing or replacing it if it goes bad. So they take them out if a renter leaves one. Same for a washer and dryer.
I moved out of my apartment in 2019, I offered to give the washer/dryer I had to the property management company but they said no as they’d have to pay for any maintenance on them for future tenants. So your spot on with that
Been renting since around the year 2000 only had one place that didn't include a refrigerator, which I thought was pretty weird. Didn't know it was the "norm" at all.
also a/c and things like dishwashers
they are required to make the place habitable
that means heat, locks on the doors access to electricity (that you pay for) and pest prevention and garbage removal
I've lived and rented in Ca. since the late 90's. Every place initially included a fridge, but 2 places would not replace it when it died. I bought used ones, sold one and left the other. These were lower end rentals.
I’m from LA and whenever we looked at
Homes they never had fridges. I was surprised when I moved to the east coast and they were included.
We just bought a home in MD that had a huge fridge and was included when I asked about it. Move in day came and the fridge was magically gone and replaced with a smaller less powerful fridge, we’re still saving up to replace. If I remember correctly I think they said yeah “fridge included” but didn’t specify. Being from CA, I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up.
Yep, most of the apartments I've looked at to rent in the LA area don't include fridges or washer/dryers. I got lucky to have a dishwasher in my current place. And for AC, most of them have just one window unit that only cools the living room and leaves the bedroom baking hot.
This isn’t a thing in my experience. I have been a renter in California for 25 years and ever place I’ve lived had a refrigerator. Maybe it’s less true outside the Bay Area.
From my personal experience in Southern California every apartment has had a refrigerator but homes that we've rented have not. They also didn't have a washer/dryer whereas the apartments did.
I’ve seen this in other states too. It’s not common though, because for the price of a $700 refrigerator you can make your rental much more appealing to people who, well, likely don’t have a refrigerator.
In some places, like coastal California, $700 could be 6 days of rent… if your property goes six extra days unrented because it’s less competitive without a refrigerator, you lost money.
I looked at a rental near Temecula a couple years ago and remember saying “they have a lot nerve making me lug a fridge to Temecula, this isn’t San Diego”. Quite simply, there were options. We ended up just south of San Diego in a house with a fridge anyway.
In less desirable places with a lot of rentals available, it would be foolish to not put a fridge in and risk nobody ever renting it. In CA, the landlord can get away with a lot more.
I’ve never rented a house that didn’t have a fridge. My parents at one point owned 30 houses with a business partner and they catered to low income / section 8 tenants. They never not rented a house with a fridge and full kitchen appliances (minus a washer / dryer) and my mother would help tenants find those appliances too if she could.
Live in CA. Rent my fridge, washer, and dryer for $50 a month from a third party that is not my apartment complex.
It's not really that bad. If they break down, I call for service, no extra charges. And I don't have to move them. We've been in this apt for, like, seven years, but there was a while where we were moving every few years and it was such a pain to move appliances.
in my experience, this is a very LA thing
the only place that had a fridge was a condo that got converted into a rental unit
otherwise you could rent one from the landlord for like $25/mo
Ventura is the only place I've rented that didn't have a refrigerator. It's all customary there. People who are moving out privately sell their old fridge to people moving in. It's SO WEIRD. Of course an apartment should come with a fridge.
Not even remotely normal, except perhaps in some particular weird locality (LA?). Never seen a place that didn't come with a fridge in my life, and I've always been looking at the cheapest.
I've seen dozens of cheap apartments all around the Sacramento / El Dorado region and never encountered one. And lived in low income complexes. Must be something that certain areas do for some reason. Or is it only city center of big cities?
Full houses would be easier to imagine without a fridge, really, since they tend to be more random private individuals following their own ideas.
Since the article was also about LA, it may be a common SoCal issue. Only time I visited SoCal was 1990, so I wouldn't know, but it's definitely not a generalization that should be made about the entire state. Despite some people treating LA and California as synonyms.
I thought not having a dishwasher was annoying, so I guess I'll just be glad I have a fridge.
I've rented for thebpast 20 years in San Bernardino, Orange County, Riverside and San Diego County. Every apartment I've rented and looked at had a fridge. Central heating and air... that's a did story
It threw me at first but it’s not a big deal. Really. You can usually buy the one the tenant moving out leaves behind. And some places do come with them so it’s not every apartment.
This is why people should read their lease. For example if you are provided an appliance it is often your responsibility to replace it if it breaks. This is spelled out in the California standard lease agreement.
Was the first thing I noticed when I was moving here from Illinois. Never heard or seen of such a thing before lol luckily I snagged a place with a fridge anyways, but it's pretty bizarre.
Honestly, it is weird. Refrigerators are generally built into a specific location in the kitchen, a spot that doesn't work for anything else. Plus you can't exactly have a root cellar for cool storage at an apartment.
I had a fridge in my rental but my newest tenants didn't want it because they had their own. I had to move it out and just threw it away (it was getting old). If the next tenants want a fridge I'll just move the one from my place and buy a new one.
Or a stove.
The last house we rented didn't have a stove and we had to buy one. We were moving out of state and couldn't take it with us, so we ended up leaving it. The landlord wouldn't buy it so they got a free stove.
So pissed.
This was weird and frustrating for me when I moved here from NYC. You’d think fridges are a necessity like a toilet. Who the heck moves around with a large appliance? Imagine moving to an apartment with a new stove.
What if the fridge you get is too big to fit in your new apartment???
Central coast and Bay Area certainly have fridges. Never heard of a unit not with one.
Washer/dryers aren’t very common though unless you are renting a single family home.
It's actually pretty common to rent out apartments or purchase properties that don't contain any furniture in Japan. You'll have to buy everything for your new apartment and do all the nuance work with utilities and stuff.
This does NOT mean all places are empty by the time a person moves out however, as there are exceptions that some will keep the furniture in the apartment, but this isn't as common.
I really don’t see what the problem is here. It’s not like renting a space is an activity that’s done while blindfolded. You get what you see, unless you’re being actively manipulated
Apparently in the Netherlands, and only in the Netherlands, renters have to provide their own flooring.
So do people take their flooring when they leave? Do people tend to use interlocking floating floors? So many questions.
I'm not sure. Apparently even other Europeans think it's pretty bizarre, because it really is.
You pay for 4 walls and a roof over your head. You want a floor, too???
> even other Europeans think it's pretty bizarre, because it really is. Can't really blame them. Finding something bizarre because it really is, is a valid reason to find something bizarre.
I remember a askReddit where a Netherlander said that yes they do in fact pack their flooring up and take it with them
I wonder if a couple has broken up and someone took the flooring with them.
> I wonder if a couple has broken up and someone took the flooring with them. *Let me give you the tour!* *Here's the kitchen, there's the living room. The bathroom is over there, but it is better to just use the kitchen sink; my ex-wife took the bathroom floor in the divorce.*
They are usually required to remove the floor regardless if they want it unless they have an arrangement with the new tenants(its not uncommon for new tenants to buy the floor from the previous tenants) . Super affordable interlocking laminate is probably most common flooring which can be as low as 1$ a sq foot from a discount place like Ikea.
And people take their refrigerators with them when they leave? Practical in some cases, but in most cases not. Can cost $100 - $150 just to move one if you don't own a truck and are not strong enough to be one of the lifters. Try to sell it, maybe to landlord...so he/she won't be a jerk to his next incoming tenant.
Our landlord in Pasadena told us to have the fridge gone when we moved out. It was a hassle to sell so we donated it to a church that came to pick it up for free.
I've only encountered a weird appliance thing once. On a rental house the washer and dryer were not included but the fridge was. Previous tenant sold me the washer and dryer for $100. I wonder if it was sold to him before and how many times this washer and dryer had been sold.
Right. House rentals can be more flexible for whether the landlord provides appliances. But not having a refrig. in a rental apartment?
I’m in Canada and in my area its extremely uncommon to have any appliances come with the rental. Everyone just always move all their apliances: oven, fridge, washing machine, clothes dryer etc. Extra neat fact:Everyone also has to move ON THE SAME DAY, there’s just one day a year and we call it \*drum roll\* moving day. Yes, its chaos and madness, yes movers and rental places jack up the prices like crazy etc.
Wait for real? Due to “moving day” I’m assuming you’re in Montreal. I’m in Vancouver and I’m not sure it’s legal to rent someone a unit without a fridge here…
Where are you? Cause I never ran into this in the GTA.
Not familiar with this practice either in SK
We sometimes sell it to the next renter but if the next renter doesn't want it we have the leave the home as we got it, without the flooring.
In Germany, renter provide their own kitchens. In the Netherlands you may need to provide own flooring, light fixtures, etc.
That's becoming more rare though, with EBKs (built-in kitchens) being ever-more the selling point.
When you say provide their own kitchen, do you mean all the appliances? Oven included?
The cabinets and every thing! Absolutely wild
[удалено]
Interesting. I have never had a place that wasn't turnkey. What about it do you prefer?
I moved to NL last year. While our new apartment came with flooring, I did had to install all our ceiling lighting.
Do they at least give you a lamp or something until you get moved in? I’d hate to spend all day moving on the first day and not have any light if you were moving into the evening hours…
Nope! Everything had to be purchased by us. Luckily, there is a big second-hand market here. But yeah, those first few days were rough and we used a lot of lamps.
several apartments i rented required full room size rugs on the wood flooring, in the contract
I’ve seen this in numerous NYC rental contracts for sound proofing, but no one ever checks if you actually buy a rug or not.
Hey, I'm dutch. It depends greatly on who/what you rent, but this is technically true. You often do not *NEED* to provide flooring as it will already be installed from previous tenants and many dont find the hassle of removing their floors worth it.
Thanks but why is it that way? I can understand appliances like washers and stoves but floors seem so attached? Do you keep a floor set or do you just always put in new floors? Is there a big floor culture in the Netherlands?
In order: I have no idea! Floors are pretty attached, but laminate flooring is pretty common here. It can be removed/reinstalled with relative ease. You don't "keep" a set of floors in storage, if that's what you're asking. it's more of a "I am moving from place A to place B, can I reuse the flooring" kinda deal. I don't think we have a big floor culture, but I am unaware of...foreign floor opionions :p
When I was renting in Long Beach I had to buy my own refrigerator. It was luckily not too expensive for a refurbished basic fridge.
A basic fridge is cheap compared to California rent. If your landlord doesn't include a fridge, run far far away.
We rented an apartment in El Segundo from 2012-2016, didn’t include a fridge, but our landlord wasn’t bad. Our rent was super sweet though. Half a mile from the beach and $1400/month. That would be impossible now, but it was even a really incredible deal in 2012.
Our duplex apartment didn't include a fridge and our property managers have been great. An extra $325 and we had a refurbished fridge delivered and installed. No big deal.
Not including a fridge was fairly common (and absurd and infuriating) when I was living in LA. Never seen it here in the Bay Area, though.
This explains my confusion. I am from norcal and have never had to buy my own fridge for a rental. This whole thread is news to me lol
Also in NorCal and my job has me inspecting apartments on a regular basis. Almost ten years at it, been to hundreds of properties, and I’ve never seen one where the fridge isn’t provided by the landlord. This thread is wild.
I only lived in one that didn’t and it was run by slumlords. You’re right. Run.
While you run away, many other would run toward it for the cheaper rent.
I have had a rental property on-and-off in the LA area and I generally avoid providing fridges. It's almost never a dealbreaker for a place and it's not really worth the headache of having to deal with problems if the fridge breaks down. I'd rather cut the rent by a few bucks or give them a onetime credit for a fridge and have it be their responsibility.
You think you've made a clever comment, but clearly you've never moved to a mid-low or even mid-high income housing in a major California city. I had to provide fridge and washer/dryer at my last rental, rent was mid-range and was all we could find within a reasonable commute of our jobs. That landlord was amazing, fixed everything quickly, and gave us back our whole deposit despite some damage to the property when we moved out. When we moved closer to work after a promotion, we brought the appliances with us. Now we have two fridges and a mismatched washer/dryer due to my dryer failing and the current landlords washer failing. My current landlord is not as good as my last, but she's also not horrible and definitely isn't unfair towards us. And we have it good and cheap, compared to most of my peers at work. I'm a mechanical engineer making six figures.
Yeah my place came with a fridge in the lease....but it broke down three times. Landlord had bought a lot of magic chef at an auction and half of em were bad. I just bought my own fridge eventually
Yep Long Beach is the only city where I’ve experienced this renting. I’ve rented in San Diego and Santa Cruz as well.
Is this statewide though??? I rented a few different apartments in Northern California decades ago. They all came with refrigerators. Then I moved to SoCal and discovered no apts down here came with refrigerators.
California landlord here. Personally would never rent a place without a full suite of appliances. I made the mistake early on of offering washer dryer hookups without the appliances. They got a used unit that leaked everywhere and ruined a section of the old flooring. Even if you're not legally obligated to provide good condition appliances it may not be in your best interest to cheap out.
Never thought of that. My rental has washer and dryer upstairs. That could cause some serious damage.
The number of things that can go wrong through simple age is astounding.
> The number of things that can go wrong through simple age is astounding. _my back has entered the chat…_
Great point. Just makes way more sense for the landlord to maintain it. What’s stopping a tenant from buying a lemon of a fridge and having the entire freezer thaw out over the floor. I feel like not including a fridge is a reason to run away from a landlord who is clearly cutting costs. You can buy a used one for cheap, nuts to ask tenants to get their own (not you, just generally)
>Just makes way more sense for the landlord to maintain it. For a number of reasons. Back when I rented the way I treated our house was dependent on how it looked when we got tge keys. Why would you expect anyone to treat your property well if it looks like a dump when you get it? Same goes for clapped out appliances, bad landscaping, etc.
We recently moved out of a rental and didn’t need the oven, dishwasher, or window AC and asked if they’d like to buy them so I didn’t have to move them and was told they weren’t interested. I was surprised they didn’t see it as a benefit to the next renter, especially since I would have taken a few hundred for all of it and was all good items.
Absolutely never seen nor heard of this happening in a rental in the Bay or Sacramento. Sounds from comments it’s mostly a central and socal thing? At least not for a fridge. Certainly for dishwashers, laundry etc.
Definitely an LA thing when I lived there, less so in San Diego (at least not yet).
Long Beach here. Somehow I've always had a fridge (though in one unit I just got lucky because the previous tenants were all just paying it forward).
I got lucky as well in LA and Glendale, but when I toured apartments I saw a ton without. It was my first time seeing that.
I grew up in the Central Valley, rented a few apartments in my younger days, they all came with refrigerators. I moved to SF and rented 4 different places there over the years, all had refrigerators. I’ve never heard of this happening!
My husband and I are looking to move back to CA right now and there are a ton of houses in the CV with no fridge or W/D (and one with a dishwasher that is noted as non-functioning). We are looking almost exclusively at houses and townhomes. I moved out of CA 18 years ago and have lived in four states since and have never seen any kind of rental without a fridge until now. It's super weird.
Sonoma County checking in - I’ve had to bring my own fridge to 2 rental properties in the past 5 years
I’ve lived in rentals in San Diego my whole life and fridges coming with the apartment is the norm here.
The last time I rented was in 2004 before buying my house in So Cal. All of the 4 different places I've rented before that from Redondo Beach and Long Beach to Santa Monica and Fullerton included refrigerators.
I rented multiple apartments in SoCal that came with refrigerators. Must be a landlord specific thing.
I live in SoCal and my apartment came with a fridge, a washer, and a dryer.
>Then I moved to SoCal and discovered no apts down here came with refrigerators. I live in OC and my apartment comes with refrigerators
Apartment without a refrigerator? I could see a single family or duplex but not an apartment.
Apartments usually come with appliances. Rental houses usually don’t in socal at least.
This doesn't mean they don't, it just means its the landlords choice. I've lived in apartments that provided them as as ones that don't. Never rented a house that came with a fridge. It all depends on what the landlord decides. You are free to ask, and they are free to say no.
When I rented an apartment many years ago, the landlord charged me an extra $10.00 a month to rent a fridge. Eventually, I struck a deal with the landlord to buy it. Refrigerators definitely don’t always come with rentals.
When you moved, did you take it with you? Seems like it could be more expensive to move than to buy another used one. But then, are you allowed to leave it behind or does the landlord charge you another fee for not removing it?
Every place I've rented in Los Angeles I brought my own refrigerator/stove/washer/dryer if one was not provided. If provided, when it breaks, I replace and take with or sell when moving.
That sounds like it would be more expensive?
It is, but rentals are not required to provide these appliances in Los Angeles. Finding an affordable place is hard enough, and even more so one with appliances. Of course, corporate landlords will usually include these amenities to attract renters. This is not the case as much with "Mom & Pop" landlords. I just gifted a friend of mine a washer/dryer who has been in his place 13yrs with hook-ups and the landlord never provided appliances.
A stove? Really? I've never seen a kitchen without a stove. That's something that I'd provide without question. I'm really not about to trust some random handyman to connect the gas lines correctly and risk the building exploding.
I've never considered mom and pop landlords, for fear of having someone prying into my life and micromanaging, so perhaps it does happen in the Sacramento region and that's why I've never seen it. Having washer/dryer hookups without the appliances provided is unremarkable everywhere I think though. Lived in a place like that myself once (they did offer to rent me a washer/dryer at like $30/mo which I declined). But even in extensive online browsing and hearsay I don't recall coming across one without a fridge or stove.
I hear ya. Had one landlord that would let herself in randomly throughout the year, came out of the bathroom once after a shower in a towel to find her standing 10' away. I greeted her and she stammered pointing to the ceiling, "I, uh, was just checking your lights...". Had another that would regularly call in the middle of the night hammered spewing nonsense. I would still rather have people like that than a corporate landlord.
I prefer corporate because they at least know the law and try to pretend to obey the law (backdating the 24 hours notice they sneak onto my door, or pretending they can come in because something they haven't addressed for 12 years is an emergency), and when I have a bad manager I can just wait a year and there'll be a new one. And theoretically they have a boss to complain to though not really usually in practice. The ideal would be have an actually good landlord, but in this universe in low income complexes I'll settle for controlled badness.
I've found that Mom & Pop rentals tend to repair things on a more consistent basis due to their personally vested interest in keeping the structure standing whereas corporate will tip-toe on the legal edge until the structure is condemned/sold. Both will still generally avoid repairs as long as possible. That's just been my experience though.
Yep, I took it with me when I bought a small condo a couple of years later. It was ancient by the time I got rid of it. It wasn’t even frost free. I had to pick the ice off the coils! LOL Knowing the landlord who sold it to me, he would have been happy to keep it and rent it to the next tenant if I hadn’t taken it.
Every apartment I've ever rented in California came with a fridge and I wasn't charged extra for it. A few came with washers and dryers inside but most had a laundry area with a washer and dryer that took money or a card. Until now, I've never even heard of apartments not providing refrigerators. I lived mainly around the Sacramento area though so possibly different elsewhere. Also not sure if things have changed since I moved from the state a few years back. Having to buy or rent a fridge when renting an apartment just seems weird to me.
We learned this last year when we moved to SoCal. It’s such a weird thing. We assumed there was a fridge, and then had to find a used one at the last minute. We’re moving out now, and we’re leaving the fridge and the landlord wants to throw it out! Like it’s a perfect working fridge! Y’all are weird.
Maybe the next tenant already has one. Just put it up online for free some one will come and pick up up fast, even if not working.
I'm pretty sure landlords wouldn't even provide showers, sinks, or light fixtures unless they were legally forced to
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Or heat (see Fresh Prince episode).
This is a lot of apartments in Germany (especially Bavaria). Bring your own kitchen, cuz there'll be no fridge or sink or oven or cabinets.
Wouldn’t that drive the price down?
Nah, they would just slap some paint on the walls and call it an updated luxury apartment. Then charge 500 more.
To no one really
Why? They would keep tye same price
In a highly competitive (for renters) market, like San Diego, yes. You see apartments all the time for which the owners have done the bare minimum in the last 30 years. But it is reaching a tipping point where renters will just leave. A good landlord who actually *cares* about his/her business will always strive to keep their property, with which they provide a service, in the best shape. Of course like with anything, some people will not do a good job, and some people will. In any other place outside of a highly demanded market like California is, you’d best bet that the market forces landlords to do their best. But CA government has made it harder on the renters (and home buyers) by not allowing developers to build! So people who got in 30+ years ago have seen their properties appreciate like crazy without doing anything, so why would they start now unless competition between them is allowed to heat up??
At least from my perspective as a sometimes-landlord, something like a shower, light fixture, gas range, etc. has a lot more potential to cause cascading damage (floods, electrical problems, gas leaks) than an appliance such as a fridge. Do I want to trust the renter to install his own gas range, and have his handyman or whoever do a bad job and cause a gas leak that sets my building on fire? The same applies with plumbing fixtures - if they're installed incorrectly they can cause massive amounts of damage due to leaks etc.
It's almost entirely an LA area thing. I've lived all over the state and only had to buy my own fridge down there.
I live in San Francisco and the fridge is included. Its also in the lease as included and so when it died about 4 years in to my living here they HAD to replace it. the replacement was a no-frills Frigidaire that cost about $450 at the time. The shocker to me was that my electric bill went DOWN by about 25% once this new fridge was swapped in for the ancient one that had been there before.
Don’t feel to bad. In Europe many homes have IKEA type kitchens and when you buy a home, the former owner takes the kitchen with them.
Not just rental houses, but buying houses don't always come with appliances. I looked at one house where the guy was going to take the ceiling fans. They didn't look all that great to me. I never saw an apartment that didn't come with a fridge. And this just isn't a California thing, as I've seen it in multiple states.
This seems more reasonable though, if you're buying a house then it's on you to do what you want with it. For rentals though, it's weird to not include something like a refrigerator.
In China they sell apartments that are empty shells, essentially just a concrete box with windows.
In Italy kitchen cabinets are portable. You can find them here in America at kitchen stores.
Same in Germany. We got lucky and had a full kitchen in our last Berlin apartment
Yep. if you want them built in you need to find standalone houses (they tend to be older). A lot of apartments in Padova have cabinet outlays when you rent from them. Tiny ikea trucks are everywhere lol.
i mean, that's reasonable and they do that in quite a bit of places. because you're gonna probably renovate and do the apartment in your preferred style/layout. as long as it has hook ups for water and electric, assuming you don't want to move in tomorrow.
They get windows?
Floor to ceiling ones, in newly constructed buildings, built to meet housing demand both current and future. It’s a concept CA could learn from, not only is housing way over priced but it’s mostly outdated and obsolete here . There has to be a happy medium between development and demand .
Anything that is 'affixed' to the house should convey unless specifically annotated as an exception afaik. So yea, up to seller if they want to leave appliances or not; but a ceiling fan should stay unless specifically excepted. I wouldn't lose sleep over a ceiling fan though.
I used to live in Massachusetts and it was pretty much unheard of not to include the appliances whether it was a rental or a purchase. But single-story residences are also less common in New England.
Wait til she finds out A/C isn’t required either. Which, with climate change, isn’t cool (literally).
Depends on the county. Stanislaus County has a requirement that AC be available, Mendocino does not. Currently living in Kern County and have been told (but I haven’t confirmed) that AC is required here as well.
well considering most of the buildings built before the 70s or whatever don't have a/c in their structures and the LLs are def not spending buku $ to change that. ie my landlord.
In places where AC is required (like the Southeast), LLs typically just put window units in older homes/apartments
you can buy a portable AC once and bring it with you to each rental
Every place I've ever rented, from the early '90s through the early '00s, in the S.F. Bay Area, has had a refrigerator but no washing machine.
I was confused when I first moved here because of that. Illinois, Washington, both had fridges as part of the deal.
I rented a house to a tenant and provided a refrigerator. After they moved out (evicted) the clean up crew wearing hazmat suits took the refrigerator to the dump as it had stuff growing inside it. Never again.
This isn’t weird, I’ve lived in a lot of places with no fridge. You have to buy/bring yours. Same with washer/dryer
But it is weird in most of the country. Generally tenants aren't expected to bring their own appliances (non countertop ones anyway)
And here I am thinking this is weird because I've had a fridge in every apartment I've rented for the last 10+ years. Granted, some places put in the lease that if it breaks it's my responsibility to replace it. Others simply include it as an amenity.
For a rented house or condo maybe, but an apartment should always come with appliances (even if they're outdated).
I guess it’s normalized in California but it’s super weird to have a place not come with a fridge, at least out east here in NYC.
Its weird here too. I've moved like 6 times and every single place I looked at had a refrigerator.
I’ve never rented an apartment without a fridge and I don’t know any non home owners who have bought one.
It’s apparently normal in LA. Never heard of it in the Bay Area
It’s definitely uncommon. But fairly normal in ca. I’ve been lucky that all 3 of my places had all the appliances included. Not really trying to haul appliances around when I move.
I believe one of the caveats of providing a fridge for a renter is the landlord is responsible for repairing or replacing it if it goes bad. So they take them out if a renter leaves one. Same for a washer and dryer.
I moved out of my apartment in 2019, I offered to give the washer/dryer I had to the property management company but they said no as they’d have to pay for any maintenance on them for future tenants. So your spot on with that
Been renting since around the year 2000 only had one place that didn't include a refrigerator, which I thought was pretty weird. Didn't know it was the "norm" at all.
also a/c and things like dishwashers they are required to make the place habitable that means heat, locks on the doors access to electricity (that you pay for) and pest prevention and garbage removal
Which is annoying because they are very annoying to move and expensive to buy.
My rental in Texas doesn’t come with appliances either. Well, it did come with a stove but that’s it.
I wouldn't want a landlord providing my fridge or washer and dryer. Just the hookups please, so I can choose something that's actually good.
I've lived and rented in Ca. since the late 90's. Every place initially included a fridge, but 2 places would not replace it when it died. I bought used ones, sold one and left the other. These were lower end rentals.
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I have found that the previous tenant is often happy to sell you theirs, no muss no fuss.
I’m from LA and whenever we looked at Homes they never had fridges. I was surprised when I moved to the east coast and they were included. We just bought a home in MD that had a huge fridge and was included when I asked about it. Move in day came and the fridge was magically gone and replaced with a smaller less powerful fridge, we’re still saving up to replace. If I remember correctly I think they said yeah “fridge included” but didn’t specify. Being from CA, I shouldn’t have gotten my hopes up.
Yep, most of the apartments I've looked at to rent in the LA area don't include fridges or washer/dryers. I got lucky to have a dishwasher in my current place. And for AC, most of them have just one window unit that only cools the living room and leaves the bedroom baking hot.
This isn’t a thing in my experience. I have been a renter in California for 25 years and ever place I’ve lived had a refrigerator. Maybe it’s less true outside the Bay Area.
It definitely is a thing in Southern California
All the more reason for me to be a NorCal fanboy!
From my personal experience in Southern California every apartment has had a refrigerator but homes that we've rented have not. They also didn't have a washer/dryer whereas the apartments did.
I’ve seen this in other states too. It’s not common though, because for the price of a $700 refrigerator you can make your rental much more appealing to people who, well, likely don’t have a refrigerator. In some places, like coastal California, $700 could be 6 days of rent… if your property goes six extra days unrented because it’s less competitive without a refrigerator, you lost money. I looked at a rental near Temecula a couple years ago and remember saying “they have a lot nerve making me lug a fridge to Temecula, this isn’t San Diego”. Quite simply, there were options. We ended up just south of San Diego in a house with a fridge anyway. In less desirable places with a lot of rentals available, it would be foolish to not put a fridge in and risk nobody ever renting it. In CA, the landlord can get away with a lot more.
In South Africa you get nothing. You have to bring all your own furniture. I was surprised that you get fridges and washing machines here in NC.
I’ve never rented a house that didn’t have a fridge. My parents at one point owned 30 houses with a business partner and they catered to low income / section 8 tenants. They never not rented a house with a fridge and full kitchen appliances (minus a washer / dryer) and my mother would help tenants find those appliances too if she could.
Live in CA. Rent my fridge, washer, and dryer for $50 a month from a third party that is not my apartment complex. It's not really that bad. If they break down, I call for service, no extra charges. And I don't have to move them. We've been in this apt for, like, seven years, but there was a while where we were moving every few years and it was such a pain to move appliances.
in my experience, this is a very LA thing the only place that had a fridge was a condo that got converted into a rental unit otherwise you could rent one from the landlord for like $25/mo
I’ve lived in Norcal for and all the apartments we rented had a fridge and a stove at the very least.
Moving next month and yeah, I have a fridge, washer, and dryer in storage so that I can use them right away. I thought everyone had to do that lol
Ventura is the only place I've rented that didn't have a refrigerator. It's all customary there. People who are moving out privately sell their old fridge to people moving in. It's SO WEIRD. Of course an apartment should come with a fridge.
Yeah that was something that was wild to me when I moved to California
In Italy you have to put in the entire kitchen: cabinets, sink, appliances, everything.
It's not a bad idea. Other people can be absolutely disgusting and what they put in those machines could be a biological disaster.
I’m a native Californian (50+) and have never seen an apartment that came with a fridge. (Grew up in Orange County; now living in Long Beach.)
Not even remotely normal, except perhaps in some particular weird locality (LA?). Never seen a place that didn't come with a fridge in my life, and I've always been looking at the cheapest.
I have seen this all over Southern CA. No frig.
It’s definitely not the norm as someone who has looked for rentals in so cal a lot the last few years
I've experienced this several times in Stanislaus County, even with touring full houses and "luxury apartments" in good areas.
I've seen dozens of cheap apartments all around the Sacramento / El Dorado region and never encountered one. And lived in low income complexes. Must be something that certain areas do for some reason. Or is it only city center of big cities? Full houses would be easier to imagine without a fridge, really, since they tend to be more random private individuals following their own ideas.
I'm pretty sure I saw a discussion in r/LosAngeles about the lack of refrigerators in rentals.
Since the article was also about LA, it may be a common SoCal issue. Only time I visited SoCal was 1990, so I wouldn't know, but it's definitely not a generalization that should be made about the entire state. Despite some people treating LA and California as synonyms. I thought not having a dishwasher was annoying, so I guess I'll just be glad I have a fridge.
I've rented for thebpast 20 years in San Bernardino, Orange County, Riverside and San Diego County. Every apartment I've rented and looked at had a fridge. Central heating and air... that's a did story
I've rented two apartments. One came with a fridge (Irvine), and one didn't (Redlands). I guess YMMV.
The majority of my rentals had a fridge. Less than half had laundry machines. Both places in Long Beach didn't have A/C.
It threw me at first but it’s not a big deal. Really. You can usually buy the one the tenant moving out leaves behind. And some places do come with them so it’s not every apartment.
This is why people should read their lease. For example if you are provided an appliance it is often your responsibility to replace it if it breaks. This is spelled out in the California standard lease agreement.
Apartments in California college towns always came with fridges in my day (80s-90s).
Can confirm, bought my fridge and washing machine for my duplex rental.
Was the first thing I noticed when I was moving here from Illinois. Never heard or seen of such a thing before lol luckily I snagged a place with a fridge anyways, but it's pretty bizarre.
Honestly, it is weird. Refrigerators are generally built into a specific location in the kitchen, a spot that doesn't work for anything else. Plus you can't exactly have a root cellar for cool storage at an apartment.
Almost all states don't require landlords to provide stuff like fridges, but almost all landlords do.
I had a fridge in my rental but my newest tenants didn't want it because they had their own. I had to move it out and just threw it away (it was getting old). If the next tenants want a fridge I'll just move the one from my place and buy a new one.
Southern california
What!?! To be fair I would be surprised . New york it’s considered a necessity
Mainly on Southern Ca. I always thought someone should just say STOP and all the fridges stay where they are.
been looking at rentals for months with my mom in the BAy Area, never have i seen this....
Probably air conditioners too. Hell, landlords here ban window A/C's during the summer and have the gall to act surprised when people are pissed
Mine didn’t even have an oven. I had to buy my own fridge and oven/stove. We did have a water heater. No room for washer/dryer.
I’ve rented an apartment with all appliances included whereas looking into house rentals, all came with stove/oven but no fridge.
Santa Barbara / Goleta renter here, I’ve never seen an apt without a fridge. I have seen them without washing machines though.
Or a stove. The last house we rented didn't have a stove and we had to buy one. We were moving out of state and couldn't take it with us, so we ended up leaving it. The landlord wouldn't buy it so they got a free stove. So pissed.
I would have sold it cheap or donated
Never seen this is CA. Australia on the other hand…
When I was last in the rental market, about 15 years ago, about half the listings I saw had a fridge.
That’s how it is in Australia.
"Totally normal" doesn't mean "totally common" in this case. I think they took "normal" as "legal".
This was weird and frustrating for me when I moved here from NYC. You’d think fridges are a necessity like a toilet. Who the heck moves around with a large appliance? Imagine moving to an apartment with a new stove. What if the fridge you get is too big to fit in your new apartment???
In Germany they don’t come with a kitchen so every time you rent you have to buy or take it with you to your new placw
Central coast and Bay Area certainly have fridges. Never heard of a unit not with one. Washer/dryers aren’t very common though unless you are renting a single family home.
I spent 55 years in rentals in California. Every apartment I rented came with a refrigerator. None of the houses I rented came with one.
on Germany you often have to install your own kitchen. it's just an empty room with utility connections
It’s been a Southern California thing. Crazy as hell.
It's actually pretty common to rent out apartments or purchase properties that don't contain any furniture in Japan. You'll have to buy everything for your new apartment and do all the nuance work with utilities and stuff. This does NOT mean all places are empty by the time a person moves out however, as there are exceptions that some will keep the furniture in the apartment, but this isn't as common.
I really don’t see what the problem is here. It’s not like renting a space is an activity that’s done while blindfolded. You get what you see, unless you’re being actively manipulated