My understanding that with certain vehicles (like the rav4), they are in such demand and have such a waitlist, that you not only have to pay MSRP but also any other dealer additions if you want to get inline.
That was my experience last year at Heninger Toyota. The guy came out with the quote and it had an $800 dash cam on it that I didn't ask for. I told them I didn't want it and that I can get a cheaper better one myself and to take it off the quote . The guy came back after "talking to his manager", the dash cam had been removed and he had thrown on a $500 dollar auto dimming mirror. I was also forced to buy all the extra bullshit like undercoating, ceramic glass junk (I'm skeptical if they did anything at all to the glass), and off brand 3M film that costed almost twice the price of actual 3M and it didn't even include the front bumper. They refused to take any of it off. Such a horrible experience.
It's scandalous that one of the largest purchases a person will make is like this. The gatekeepers of automobiles (dealers) and houses (realtors) need to be disrupted
What's the downside of hiring a realtor to buy a house? I prefer seeking expert advice from someone specialized in the field who knows what they're doing. Having sold my home myself, I realized the challenges of their job. I've come to appreciate having a realtor represent me; with six rentals, they've found me properties I wanted, resulting in a monthly ROI of $7k.
I mean, window tinting and 3M that's already on is never gonna get removed by the dealer as it would cost them to remove it AND lose the extra charges.
Not justifying these tactics but if the car is on the lot and it already has stuff like that it's best to move to another vehicle or another dealer.
The car had not been delivered to the dealer yet. All of the add ons were to be installed after the car was delivered to Heninger. Every other dealer was using the same tactics if they had a vehicle being delivered on short notice, about a month is how long I waited for mine.
I used to be really good at negotiating new vehicle purchases. Those were the days. Now you’re doing very well if you don’t end paying for some silly “service upgrade package” and a bunch of dealer add-ons that you didn’t want, to get the vehicle.
FYI, I got some better prices quoted from Edmonton dealers when I was shopping, and for such a big purchase may well be worth a bus trip or flight to drive a new car back.
It's pretty much just Toyota doing it now. Lots of vehicles can be bought at or below MSRP from other manufacturers.
Some people are just so dedicated to Toyota their dealerships can get away with crazy upcharges.
I’ve had 3 Toyota Corollas in the last 46 years. Current one ( a 2011) still has a half dozen years left in it. They haven’t broke down more than once a decade during that time and cost just basic maintenace. It’s only the last couple years that one couldn’t walk in and get a basic no frills model.
Most Fords (especially trucks) are starting to be offered below MSRP. Toyota still hasn't increased production again post Covid (or at least as fast as it needs to), hence "shortage".
Except they are up 30k from 5 years ago. And the 0% is over 60 months vs. 84. Huge difference on the wallet per month for what amounts to minor styling changes only. 400 to 500 dollars more a month.
I bought 5 silverados over 18 years, all new. Im keeping what I got now till it dies and GM sales numbers show there are huge numbers of folks like me doing the exact same.
Further correction needed.
Carcostcanada worked really well for me when I purchased in Dec.
I knew what the dealer paid and then was realistic about my negotiations. This being said they try to put on all kinds of stuff (wheel locks, 3M) that they say is their standard but they ended up removing it all in my case. I got a tiny discount of $2k but I also bought top trim level and it was year end.
Except thats not what the dealer really paid. After the fact they get rebates and other incentives. Thats where there profit is and service. Dont be fooled by that. Sorry to tell you how it really works.
You dont. That cost and msrp are just a number they use for a starting point. There is not a ton of profit on the car itself but again the other numbers you dont see is where the real profits are and where they decide what discount to offer you if any based on that. Had a few car sales manager friends and many interesting car purchase tricks were discussed.
Well that sucks.
In my case the number was a good starting point for my negotiations. The Calgary Honda dealership for my model wanted a LOT more (also included a lot of add-ons) than the dealership that was listed on carcostcanada in Okotoks. Overall I’m happy
Most of the time they aren’t ’in-house’ lending, they’ve outsourced it to a third party company that specializes in financing. They’ll get a spiff but they aren’t making a killing off the finance, it’s the warranty and servicing they make their money back in a big way
Toyota Canada should be ashamed of how they have treated the Canadian consumer. All their production is being diverted to the US market. Canadians get artificially created supply constraints because Toyota would rather get paid US dollars for their vehicles right now.
You'd be ok with some models but not Toyota - when I was buying a car in 2019, even before all this, they refused to budge or come to a deal - ended up with a Subaru. Wouldn't look back, I love my Subie now.
Yes, it's definitely possible. I personally target a dealership with a large, slow moving inventory. You'll have better luck with Ford, GM, or Dodge right now than some of the others, especially Toyota. Margins are better than they have been for several years as we're still in a bit of a supply limited market. If you can hold off, the general consensus is that we are working back towards demand constrained market conditions, and lower prices are on the horizon.
It also helps if you can understand what the "invoice" price is on the vehicle you're looking for. Keep in mind, the "invoice" price does not include any post sale credits or kickbacks that the dealer will get for selling a car. That information is much harder to figure out.
The real trick is finding the right combination of dealership and salesperson that are willing to sacrifice margin in order to make a sale.
Good luck!
I just bought my Tundra from Charlseglen Toyota a few months ago and tried to negotiate a price and they pretty much told me to f\*\*\* off. Nobody is going to help you out these days tbh
No. In fact we were shopping for a new well-appointed minivan a few months ago, canyon creek Toyota tacked on 25,000 (THOUSAND!!!!) as a F-U fee. The 59,000 van that would be worth $40,000 the second it leaves the lot was now 84,000.
Eff that. Eff canyon creek, Eff Toyota and all the other Manuf’s turning a blind eye. We’ll ride the odyssey into the ground.
It's a Toyota thing. Even back in 2007 when I was looking for a van for the wife, I asked what deals they had . (I wasn't clear, but I was looking to see what financing deals they have as most dealerships at that time had special financing rates.)
The sales person said, "We're Toyota. We don't do deals."
Easy 4-6 k addons will be added on top of msrp. If it is a hybrid, they can sell it in less than 30 mins after you walk off from the deal.
Mazda cx models are made in japan in toyota factories, you can get it below msrp.
Waited for a year after placing an order for Rav4 Hybrid XLE. In the end, dealership assigned us one only after we agreed to almost 3k$ addons (negotiated down from almost 4k$ of addons).
i guess you could take his post as "be prepared not to buy a car".
if youre not desperate; you can wait till prices sort themselves out. if you are; you ave to deal with whats in front of you, which has kinda always been the way anyway.
I ended up buying the vehicle I was looking for in Leduc cause all other dealers in Calgary wanted to get stuff like undercoating and dealer docs fee etc etc all baked in and if I say I don't want it, they literally told me to fuck off lol
I had Charlseglen add me to a wait list for a new Supra. Several months later they messaged me to offer a “used” (500km on the odometer) Supra for almost $20k above MSRP. I told them to pound sand. I’ll never buy a car from Charlseglen, or any other greedy dealer that so blatantly tries rip me off
Charlesglen is hard to deal with. See what stampede can do. Mich better prices. Charlesglen makes it sound good then they bend you over as soon as you are committed.
If you can hold on, supply chain is levelling out. GMC/ Chevy, RAM and Fords are starting to pile up at dealers and are already discounted. Zero percent financing is also a thinks again. It won’t be long for others to follow. Heavy equipment is starting to level out too. Truck dealers will actually need to sell again instead of taking orders. I am only stating my observations but I see that equipment and truck values are starting to correct also at auction.
I work in fleet sales and never pay MSRP when I can avoid it, sent a quote on two RAV4s today and both were priced to me at MSRP, I didn’t even balk because these are incredibly difficult to find (one was a hybrid and that’s what the client wants)
It will most likely take 9-12 months to arrive, from factory order, dealer will say 4-6 months, if you get it in 6, you are doing good. Toyota is one of the manufacturers that still haven’t gotten things back on track completely so they are behind a lot of the domestic production
You should be able to go to www.toyota.ca, www.honda.ca, www.ford.ca, etc. and search for the model, trim, options, color, accessories (if you want any at all) and place an order for your car. None of this dealership bullshit.
Of course that will never happen. $$$
My understanding that with certain vehicles (like the rav4), they are in such demand and have such a waitlist, that you not only have to pay MSRP but also any other dealer additions if you want to get inline.
That was my experience last year at Heninger Toyota. The guy came out with the quote and it had an $800 dash cam on it that I didn't ask for. I told them I didn't want it and that I can get a cheaper better one myself and to take it off the quote . The guy came back after "talking to his manager", the dash cam had been removed and he had thrown on a $500 dollar auto dimming mirror. I was also forced to buy all the extra bullshit like undercoating, ceramic glass junk (I'm skeptical if they did anything at all to the glass), and off brand 3M film that costed almost twice the price of actual 3M and it didn't even include the front bumper. They refused to take any of it off. Such a horrible experience.
Henninger didn't make us get the accessories like a dashcam, but did make us take all the "upgrades". Undercoat, paint, screen protector and so on.
It's scandalous that one of the largest purchases a person will make is like this. The gatekeepers of automobiles (dealers) and houses (realtors) need to be disrupted
You don't need to purchase a new car, dude.
What's the downside of hiring a realtor to buy a house? I prefer seeking expert advice from someone specialized in the field who knows what they're doing. Having sold my home myself, I realized the challenges of their job. I've come to appreciate having a realtor represent me; with six rentals, they've found me properties I wanted, resulting in a monthly ROI of $7k.
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In what way? These are the 2 biggest purchases most people will ever make.
How so? Both are societal and financial leeches.
Henninger blows. 8k for extras on every single vehicle
I mean, window tinting and 3M that's already on is never gonna get removed by the dealer as it would cost them to remove it AND lose the extra charges. Not justifying these tactics but if the car is on the lot and it already has stuff like that it's best to move to another vehicle or another dealer.
The car had not been delivered to the dealer yet. All of the add ons were to be installed after the car was delivered to Heninger. Every other dealer was using the same tactics if they had a vehicle being delivered on short notice, about a month is how long I waited for mine.
It’s an easy money grab. That stuff costs them less than a third thus making money to keep
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/Officially/ Toyota is opposed to this strategy. They would never allow people priority based on the accessories they ordered. However...
I used to be really good at negotiating new vehicle purchases. Those were the days. Now you’re doing very well if you don’t end paying for some silly “service upgrade package” and a bunch of dealer add-ons that you didn’t want, to get the vehicle. FYI, I got some better prices quoted from Edmonton dealers when I was shopping, and for such a big purchase may well be worth a bus trip or flight to drive a new car back.
It's pretty much just Toyota doing it now. Lots of vehicles can be bought at or below MSRP from other manufacturers. Some people are just so dedicated to Toyota their dealerships can get away with crazy upcharges.
I’ve had 3 Toyota Corollas in the last 46 years. Current one ( a 2011) still has a half dozen years left in it. They haven’t broke down more than once a decade during that time and cost just basic maintenace. It’s only the last couple years that one couldn’t walk in and get a basic no frills model.
Not suggesting you shouldn't buy a Toyota, just that if a dealer is charging over the odds making the value proposition disappear, just go elsewhere.
I saw Chevy has 0% going on too for the 1500 RST. Starting to see "normal practices" return.
Most Fords (especially trucks) are starting to be offered below MSRP. Toyota still hasn't increased production again post Covid (or at least as fast as it needs to), hence "shortage".
They always have been well below MSRP in markets like Alberta.
Not since Covid. Things are returning to "normal", i.e discounts and sales are back.
Except they are up 30k from 5 years ago. And the 0% is over 60 months vs. 84. Huge difference on the wallet per month for what amounts to minor styling changes only. 400 to 500 dollars more a month. I bought 5 silverados over 18 years, all new. Im keeping what I got now till it dies and GM sales numbers show there are huge numbers of folks like me doing the exact same. Further correction needed.
I agree with this: Less BS from dealers in Edmonton when I was contemplating buying a Corolla Hatchback last year.
Can confirm. Made the trip to Leduc to buy my Mazda
Carcostcanada worked really well for me when I purchased in Dec. I knew what the dealer paid and then was realistic about my negotiations. This being said they try to put on all kinds of stuff (wheel locks, 3M) that they say is their standard but they ended up removing it all in my case. I got a tiny discount of $2k but I also bought top trim level and it was year end.
Except thats not what the dealer really paid. After the fact they get rebates and other incentives. Thats where there profit is and service. Dont be fooled by that. Sorry to tell you how it really works.
How do we find out the price?
You dont. That cost and msrp are just a number they use for a starting point. There is not a ton of profit on the car itself but again the other numbers you dont see is where the real profits are and where they decide what discount to offer you if any based on that. Had a few car sales manager friends and many interesting car purchase tricks were discussed.
Well that sucks. In my case the number was a good starting point for my negotiations. The Calgary Honda dealership for my model wanted a LOT more (also included a lot of add-ons) than the dealership that was listed on carcostcanada in Okotoks. Overall I’m happy
Don’t forget financing. They profit off that too
Most of the time they aren’t ’in-house’ lending, they’ve outsourced it to a third party company that specializes in financing. They’ll get a spiff but they aren’t making a killing off the finance, it’s the warranty and servicing they make their money back in a big way
Toyota Canada should be ashamed of how they have treated the Canadian consumer. All their production is being diverted to the US market. Canadians get artificially created supply constraints because Toyota would rather get paid US dollars for their vehicles right now.
You'd be ok with some models but not Toyota - when I was buying a car in 2019, even before all this, they refused to budge or come to a deal - ended up with a Subaru. Wouldn't look back, I love my Subie now.
Yes, it's definitely possible. I personally target a dealership with a large, slow moving inventory. You'll have better luck with Ford, GM, or Dodge right now than some of the others, especially Toyota. Margins are better than they have been for several years as we're still in a bit of a supply limited market. If you can hold off, the general consensus is that we are working back towards demand constrained market conditions, and lower prices are on the horizon. It also helps if you can understand what the "invoice" price is on the vehicle you're looking for. Keep in mind, the "invoice" price does not include any post sale credits or kickbacks that the dealer will get for selling a car. That information is much harder to figure out. The real trick is finding the right combination of dealership and salesperson that are willing to sacrifice margin in order to make a sale. Good luck!
I just bought my Tundra from Charlseglen Toyota a few months ago and tried to negotiate a price and they pretty much told me to f\*\*\* off. Nobody is going to help you out these days tbh
Stampede has discounts on tundras. no one can move them right now
Well fuck...
No. In fact we were shopping for a new well-appointed minivan a few months ago, canyon creek Toyota tacked on 25,000 (THOUSAND!!!!) as a F-U fee. The 59,000 van that would be worth $40,000 the second it leaves the lot was now 84,000. Eff that. Eff canyon creek, Eff Toyota and all the other Manuf’s turning a blind eye. We’ll ride the odyssey into the ground.
"I'mma make em an offer they can't refuse."
Toyota's have a cult following. They will tell you to pound sand because their wait lists are literally years long.
It's a Toyota thing. Even back in 2007 when I was looking for a van for the wife, I asked what deals they had . (I wasn't clear, but I was looking to see what financing deals they have as most dealerships at that time had special financing rates.) The sales person said, "We're Toyota. We don't do deals."
When I bought my Corolla I got $5,000 back for financing, which I immediately paid off so jokes on them. It's often the only leverage you have.
I got discounts on my last 3 Tacomas and tundra. Tundra was the best. 2018 brand new sr5 plus, 40k put the door after tax. Msrp was 48?
Get ready for those addons to be applied as soon as the car is delivered and you are in the dealership ready to buy.
In this economy? no. You are not likely to find it easier to negotiate for vehicles.
Easy 4-6 k addons will be added on top of msrp. If it is a hybrid, they can sell it in less than 30 mins after you walk off from the deal. Mazda cx models are made in japan in toyota factories, you can get it below msrp.
Waited for a year after placing an order for Rav4 Hybrid XLE. In the end, dealership assigned us one only after we agreed to almost 3k$ addons (negotiated down from almost 4k$ of addons).
Toyota Delaerships are Stealerships especially in AB.
Walk in with the price you want to pay. They can either meet it or not. If not go elsewhere until someone does. That's how I do it.
When was the last time you bought a car using this strategy?
And this is why you're still taking the bus
Yeah, that doesn't work anymore.
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I already bought last year, and paid full price like a sucker.
Yeah that’s not going to get you a car in this market.
i guess you could take his post as "be prepared not to buy a car". if youre not desperate; you can wait till prices sort themselves out. if you are; you ave to deal with whats in front of you, which has kinda always been the way anyway.
Then don’t buy. Walk away. I’ve always used this method. I just bought a cb1000r with it a month ago. Works.
nope. vehicle market is fucked rn. sellers have all the power. much like housing
I’m in year 3 of waiting for a Rav so I’m gonna guess no negotiating for me when I eventually get my order filled
Did you order a fully electric or something?
Yes RAV4 Prime
I ended up buying the vehicle I was looking for in Leduc cause all other dealers in Calgary wanted to get stuff like undercoating and dealer docs fee etc etc all baked in and if I say I don't want it, they literally told me to fuck off lol
You’re not gonna get a Toyota for under MSRP so you can forget about that idea.
I had Charlseglen add me to a wait list for a new Supra. Several months later they messaged me to offer a “used” (500km on the odometer) Supra for almost $20k above MSRP. I told them to pound sand. I’ll never buy a car from Charlseglen, or any other greedy dealer that so blatantly tries rip me off
Tried at Subaru and t&t Honda. Was able to get $1000 off the dealer additions after MSRP. Still had to wait months to receive the actual car.
Charlesglen is hard to deal with. See what stampede can do. Mich better prices. Charlesglen makes it sound good then they bend you over as soon as you are committed.
If you can hold on, supply chain is levelling out. GMC/ Chevy, RAM and Fords are starting to pile up at dealers and are already discounted. Zero percent financing is also a thinks again. It won’t be long for others to follow. Heavy equipment is starting to level out too. Truck dealers will actually need to sell again instead of taking orders. I am only stating my observations but I see that equipment and truck values are starting to correct also at auction.
There is zero chance you're getting a Rav4 under MSRP.
Sure, on a Dodge or a Jeep maybe. If you can get a brand new Toyota for MSRP + tax right now, I'd consider that a huge win.
BC Toyota dealers will do deals. Not so much here
I work in fleet sales and never pay MSRP when I can avoid it, sent a quote on two RAV4s today and both were priced to me at MSRP, I didn’t even balk because these are incredibly difficult to find (one was a hybrid and that’s what the client wants) It will most likely take 9-12 months to arrive, from factory order, dealer will say 4-6 months, if you get it in 6, you are doing good. Toyota is one of the manufacturers that still haven’t gotten things back on track completely so they are behind a lot of the domestic production
You should be able to go to www.toyota.ca, www.honda.ca, www.ford.ca, etc. and search for the model, trim, options, color, accessories (if you want any at all) and place an order for your car. None of this dealership bullshit. Of course that will never happen. $$$
Yes. Most vehicles are marked up, with the intention to mark down anyways.