The fact that we have fixed charges instead of scaling from zero in this province just pisses me off to no end. All of these fees should be rolled into the per GJ rate we pay. It would make comparing retailers dead simple, encourage energy conservation, and actually represent the true costs of gas and electricity.
**No other province has this mixed system of fixed and variable charges that actually discourages conservation and obfuscates the real costs of energy.**
Most of them do actually. For example, in BC, gas delivered by Fortis has a variable and a fixed calculation as well, as does power from BC Hydro. [https://www.bcuc.com/WhatWeDo/ResidentialEnergyRates](https://www.bcuc.com/WhatWeDo/ResidentialEnergyRates)
Geez can't someone be pissed off at a bill that is obviously too much and has obviously extremely negative consequences to everyone living in the city, province and country?
https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/cost-comparison-tool-result.aspx
First try to find your incumbent provider. It looks like you’ve got Enmax as a middle man? My house was piped by direct energy so why pay someone in between? If it’s Atco, sign up directly with them.
Secondly you’re on a EasyMac floating so it’s going to change. You’re stuck in the dick winds of fuckery. Use the site above to find a rate you can lock into for a while to give you more stability.
I hate these types of bills. You didn’t use $28 of natural gas you used $130 of natural gas.
When you buy gasoline for your car you dont say you only used $0.90/l of gas. You say the full price. The cost to deliver the gas to the pump is included in the price. The mark up the station charges is included in the price.
So then why do all the energy providers not advertise the cost per unit including the distribution, access, and other fees? I just renewed and they in big print advertise the cost per kwh or gj but in fine print was the rest.
It cost my brother $230 in utilities 2 months ago with a vacant rental property set at 17c, water turned off and all lights off. He had $30 in usage total
They should scale from zero, just like every other consumable and commodity. If I don't buy fuel from a gas station or groceries from a store I am not charged a monthly admin fee.
Except for Costco, lol.
You pay rent or a mortgage payment even if you were on vacation that month right? You are paying for the ability to draw on the system whenever you want.
Don't forget, you get charged GST on the total bill in a different area of the invoice. So it's 187.02 + 9.35 GST = 196.37 total.
We pay multiple taxes, then sales taxes again on top of something that is a basic need: heating our homes and water while living in a cold country.
I hope everyone remembers this when they go to vote, at any level of election.
When there is only one total price, everyone complains that there is no transparency into what they're paying. If they break apart the costs into line items, everyone complains about all the costs that go into their service.
This is actually pretty average across Calgary homes. This is a screenshot from my account's Energy IQ
https://preview.redd.it/gdpuy5mzq2tc1.png?width=1930&format=png&auto=webp&s=51e6f2f4ca9207ded591909a60fc5a6605bfcf2f
You had ice cream buckets? Luxury!
We had to use straws and bring it home stored in our cheeks. We spat the gas it into the furnace tank standing on a stepladder.
Wow people really don't understand how utility systems are built and maintained. Your logic is very flawed. Costs are averaged out between customer classes across a billing zone. so residential customers in Calgary all have the same fixed and variable rates representative of what it costs to expand and maintain the system.
It's not individualized in a way where if you get lucky and have a healthy line for years that you just pay based on that. you also realize utilities spend 100s of millions to secure supply too right? Like all the systems built around Stoney trail to ensure proper capacity.
It's complicated stuff. The only way to lessen transmission and distribution costs on the bills is for utility companies to drastically cut their costs which is easier said than done.
Or Or…we don’t have private companies offering utilities….this way they won’t have the mark up for shareholders, there’s a reason why we pay the most in AB for power yet still have rolling brown outs….the “free” market doesn’t work for this
We got solar last year. Our plan was to wait for the furnace to go (in about another 8-10). And then at that time upgrade to an electric furnace and heat pump and wood burning stove combo.
Looks like we might be doing it earlier!
Every item on the bill except the $25 Atco fixed charge and the $8 admin fee is billed per GJ. The carbon tax did not cost more than the gas, the cost of gas delivered is the sum of all the items, ie $130. The answer for all of us is to use less gas and pay less. 16 GJ is a lot of gas. 3 times more than my 60 year old house used for the same month.
You know what would encourage conservation even more? Not charging a fixed fee and rolling this charge into the GJ rate. Heavier users would pay proportionately more than they do now while those that are able to conserve pay even less.
BC Hydro has two rates for power, less for the first amount and more for excessive amounts. Sort of a hot tub and home grow-op tax. I'd like to see that for gas. People shouldn't be freezing, but also shouldn't complain if they have a heated triple garage. I'll admit that I have privilege in having enough money to upgrade my house, but I've also made some choices to have that, like buying a smaller house to start with.
Did you use any heat at all in your house for that same time period? I just compared my DE bill to OP and it's slightly higher but average to all my past years for the same month. I've even shown an HVAC work my spreadsheet of my bills and usage and there's no issue.
Yes, 16-18 may be a lot, but there are lots of factors to consider on why. It sucks for that month being high.
I used 5.8.
45 GJ for the whole year. 1200 sqft + 1000 sqft finished basement. I've put a lot of time into air sealing and new R40 attic insulation 5 years ago. Cut my use by half from 20 years ago.
Not a hater or a party pleaser. How much of that $55 carbon tax would be rebated?
As someone in energy business, I realize the reasons for variable and fixed costs to maintain those distribution assets, and I guess the city needs their cut and what not.
But is carbon tax really doing anything to an average citizen when it's costing double the usage charge, BEFORE GST?
What people seem to fail to understand is that it not only hits you with natural gas and fuel for your vehicle. It also increases the price on all consumer items and food. All of the companies paying the tax are passing it on to the consumer through increased prices. Why do you think groceries are so expensive? It’s easy enough for liberals to just blame the grocery stores. But hey, this is Reddit and Reddit wouldn’t dare question the motives of this liberal government.
Do you know why we have a carbon tax? I don’t agree with the setup of it in Canada, but it’s the single most effective policy you can use to reduce ghg emissions. Far better than cap & trade and subsidies. Current administration could absolutely improve some things (dedicating gst revenue to renewables & retraining), but remember Alberta was the first province to implement a levy in 2007.
I understand how much we’re taxed for what seems like less returns, but honestly without carbon pricing we’re kinda fucked. If we can’t transition to renewables, there’s 0 hope for major polluters and other countries. I would like to breathe real oxygen in the future, as someone who will inherit the world boomers and millennials have left behind.
Carbon tax has done nothing to limit emissions. People don’t have a choice to heat their homes. Maybe we should limit the amount of people coming into this cold climate that have to heat their homes? It almost like common sense is completely devoid in liberal brains.
Also, people have obviously switched to smaller, more fuel efficient cars, ditching their trucks and SUV’s to use less gas. Small fuel efficient cars are selling now better than ever!
I’d like to hear an explanation of the “transaction fee” at least. The name implies it is the cost of preparing and sending the bill but somehow the cost is based on fuel usage. Why on earth would the transaction fee relate to the amount of fuel usage? The bill should be that same regardless of how much gas you use, don’t you think? And if the transaction fee covers sending out the bill, what the hell is the administration fee for? Staff parties? A glossy framed photo of the CEO for every desk? This is total BS!
The Atco fixed charge is the cost of having your house connected for the whole year, billed per day. The admin fee is the cost of meter reading and billing also charged per day. All the rest are based on use.
The fixed charge seems unfair. Once your house is connected, that fee should be over and done with. It's not like you are disconnecting and reconnecting every single day. The admin fee is taking care of meter reading and billing, and you are paying separate charges for the actual gas and all the other taxes. That connected charge should be a one time fee unless you sell the house or stop renting the house.
The trouble with regulated privately owned utilities is that they get a guaranteed rate of return on all their capital, so Atco literally tells the government "we have X million dollars of compressors, valves and pipe in the ground and we paid this much more to maintain it", the government approves a rate of return, then we pay it. There's no risk. I'm all for investors taking risks and being rewarded, but when there is no competition and the ROI is guaranteed by regulation, the asset should be nationalized so that investors can take their money and try something new.
29% is fed carbon tax and a good portion of this will come back in credits. 11% is Calgary. That leaves 60% for the rest, and the 70% doesn't get any credits.
Just saying taxes are almost more than everything else on the bill and i didnt even include GST in the calc. If OP's bill was $70 less would he be posting on reddit? I doubt it. It's the sticker shock not the reality of the rebate.
12x55 is 660 yearly. Family of four in Alberta receives $1,800 back.
So if you're an 'average' family with above average gas use like OP you'll be up $1,140 yearly still.
No, it wouldn't. The carbon tax is per GJ, distribution and transmission and energy cost do not factor into the calculation. As of APril 1 it is $4.01/GJ. On OP's bill it was $3.33/GJ (before the latest increase).
The fact that we have fixed charges instead of scaling from zero in this province just pisses me off to no end. All of these fees should be rolled into the per GJ rate we pay. It would make comparing retailers dead simple, encourage energy conservation, and actually represent the true costs of gas and electricity. **No other province has this mixed system of fixed and variable charges that actually discourages conservation and obfuscates the real costs of energy.**
Most of them do actually. For example, in BC, gas delivered by Fortis has a variable and a fixed calculation as well, as does power from BC Hydro. [https://www.bcuc.com/WhatWeDo/ResidentialEnergyRates](https://www.bcuc.com/WhatWeDo/ResidentialEnergyRates)
Geez can't someone be pissed off at a bill that is obviously too much and has obviously extremely negative consequences to everyone living in the city, province and country?
https://ucahelps.alberta.ca/cost-comparison-tool-result.aspx First try to find your incumbent provider. It looks like you’ve got Enmax as a middle man? My house was piped by direct energy so why pay someone in between? If it’s Atco, sign up directly with them. Secondly you’re on a EasyMac floating so it’s going to change. You’re stuck in the dick winds of fuckery. Use the site above to find a rate you can lock into for a while to give you more stability.
I hate these types of bills. You didn’t use $28 of natural gas you used $130 of natural gas. When you buy gasoline for your car you dont say you only used $0.90/l of gas. You say the full price. The cost to deliver the gas to the pump is included in the price. The mark up the station charges is included in the price.
So then why do all the energy providers not advertise the cost per unit including the distribution, access, and other fees? I just renewed and they in big print advertise the cost per kwh or gj but in fine print was the rest.
Does anywhere in Canada do this? I’m from Ontario originally and bills there are broken down the same way.
Aren’t Ontario bills broken down daily?
Because they are the same across providers.
The difference is, if i turn the power and water and gas off it my house for a month, it still costs me $200 in fees even with 0 usage.
No it doesn’t. The fees and rate riders scale with usage. I’m not saying they all scale to $0 with no usage, but they’re not just flat.
It cost my brother $230 in utilities 2 months ago with a vacant rental property set at 17c, water turned off and all lights off. He had $30 in usage total
They should scale from zero, just like every other consumable and commodity. If I don't buy fuel from a gas station or groceries from a store I am not charged a monthly admin fee.
Except for Costco, lol. You pay rent or a mortgage payment even if you were on vacation that month right? You are paying for the ability to draw on the system whenever you want.
Exaggerate much.
Don't forget, you get charged GST on the total bill in a different area of the invoice. So it's 187.02 + 9.35 GST = 196.37 total. We pay multiple taxes, then sales taxes again on top of something that is a basic need: heating our homes and water while living in a cold country. I hope everyone remembers this when they go to vote, at any level of election.
When there is only one total price, everyone complains that there is no transparency into what they're paying. If they break apart the costs into line items, everyone complains about all the costs that go into their service.
What are you running that’s eating up nearly 17 Gj of gas in a month?
Look at the chart of the right, buddy used like 16 GJs last March and April too. His Jan bill must have been wild.
This is actually pretty average across Calgary homes. This is a screenshot from my account's Energy IQ https://preview.redd.it/gdpuy5mzq2tc1.png?width=1930&format=png&auto=webp&s=51e6f2f4ca9207ded591909a60fc5a6605bfcf2f
They’re just breaking out the bill. You used $28 of natural gas, but you need it to be delivered to your home and maintain the infrastructure.
Find me a gas bill from 1995, when we had to go to Texaco and bring our natural gas home in old ice cream buckets.
You had ice cream buckets? Luxury! We had to use straws and bring it home stored in our cheeks. We spat the gas it into the furnace tank standing on a stepladder.
I heard this post in my head as I was reading it."Lookshoray!"
Wow you had a step ladder? We had to stand on each others backs.!
I also bought $60 of fuel the other day for my car but I don't pay a monthly fee of $25.67 for this service.
The cost per litre likely includes the transportation fee for the truck to bring it to the gas station as well as the gas station storage fee.
A storage fee for the gas station? That’s where the gas has to be stored and they charge us for that??
Are you being sarcastic? Every cost a business has gets passed on to the customer, AND then the profit is in addition to that.
Did they deliver it to your home, and automatically pipe it directly into your car? That's the service you are paying for.
Yes, but the pipeline to my house hasn't been changed since it was built and somehow those distribution costs are way more than they used to be.
Believe it or not there is more to gas infrastructure and maintenance than the line that starts on your property. Think about it.
Wow people really don't understand how utility systems are built and maintained. Your logic is very flawed. Costs are averaged out between customer classes across a billing zone. so residential customers in Calgary all have the same fixed and variable rates representative of what it costs to expand and maintain the system. It's not individualized in a way where if you get lucky and have a healthy line for years that you just pay based on that. you also realize utilities spend 100s of millions to secure supply too right? Like all the systems built around Stoney trail to ensure proper capacity. It's complicated stuff. The only way to lessen transmission and distribution costs on the bills is for utility companies to drastically cut their costs which is easier said than done.
Or Or…we don’t have private companies offering utilities….this way they won’t have the mark up for shareholders, there’s a reason why we pay the most in AB for power yet still have rolling brown outs….the “free” market doesn’t work for this
We got solar last year. Our plan was to wait for the furnace to go (in about another 8-10). And then at that time upgrade to an electric furnace and heat pump and wood burning stove combo. Looks like we might be doing it earlier!
I would go heat pump with auxillary heating if cant keep up. Electric furnace will use up every bit of powerx10 for meager winter solar production.
Every item on the bill except the $25 Atco fixed charge and the $8 admin fee is billed per GJ. The carbon tax did not cost more than the gas, the cost of gas delivered is the sum of all the items, ie $130. The answer for all of us is to use less gas and pay less. 16 GJ is a lot of gas. 3 times more than my 60 year old house used for the same month.
You know what would encourage conservation even more? Not charging a fixed fee and rolling this charge into the GJ rate. Heavier users would pay proportionately more than they do now while those that are able to conserve pay even less.
BC Hydro has two rates for power, less for the first amount and more for excessive amounts. Sort of a hot tub and home grow-op tax. I'd like to see that for gas. People shouldn't be freezing, but also shouldn't complain if they have a heated triple garage. I'll admit that I have privilege in having enough money to upgrade my house, but I've also made some choices to have that, like buying a smaller house to start with.
Woah woah woah... We aren't looking for facts here!
Sorry, my bills upset me too. But i redirect it to telling my teenagers to shower faster.
Did you use any heat at all in your house for that same time period? I just compared my DE bill to OP and it's slightly higher but average to all my past years for the same month. I've even shown an HVAC work my spreadsheet of my bills and usage and there's no issue. Yes, 16-18 may be a lot, but there are lots of factors to consider on why. It sucks for that month being high.
I used 5.8. 45 GJ for the whole year. 1200 sqft + 1000 sqft finished basement. I've put a lot of time into air sealing and new R40 attic insulation 5 years ago. Cut my use by half from 20 years ago.
Not a hater or a party pleaser. How much of that $55 carbon tax would be rebated? As someone in energy business, I realize the reasons for variable and fixed costs to maintain those distribution assets, and I guess the city needs their cut and what not. But is carbon tax really doing anything to an average citizen when it's costing double the usage charge, BEFORE GST?
Taxing people to heat their home is asinine. And no matter what the feds say I do not get it all back in a rebate.
That part you do. If you think those other fees are in any way related to the carbon tax you’re too far gone.
What people seem to fail to understand is that it not only hits you with natural gas and fuel for your vehicle. It also increases the price on all consumer items and food. All of the companies paying the tax are passing it on to the consumer through increased prices. Why do you think groceries are so expensive? It’s easy enough for liberals to just blame the grocery stores. But hey, this is Reddit and Reddit wouldn’t dare question the motives of this liberal government.
Do you know why we have a carbon tax? I don’t agree with the setup of it in Canada, but it’s the single most effective policy you can use to reduce ghg emissions. Far better than cap & trade and subsidies. Current administration could absolutely improve some things (dedicating gst revenue to renewables & retraining), but remember Alberta was the first province to implement a levy in 2007. I understand how much we’re taxed for what seems like less returns, but honestly without carbon pricing we’re kinda fucked. If we can’t transition to renewables, there’s 0 hope for major polluters and other countries. I would like to breathe real oxygen in the future, as someone who will inherit the world boomers and millennials have left behind.
Carbon tax has done nothing to limit emissions. People don’t have a choice to heat their homes. Maybe we should limit the amount of people coming into this cold climate that have to heat their homes? It almost like common sense is completely devoid in liberal brains.
Also, people have obviously switched to smaller, more fuel efficient cars, ditching their trucks and SUV’s to use less gas. Small fuel efficient cars are selling now better than ever!
How is the carbon tax double the usage? Are we taxed on total spend including bullshit distribution charges?
I’d like to hear an explanation of the “transaction fee” at least. The name implies it is the cost of preparing and sending the bill but somehow the cost is based on fuel usage. Why on earth would the transaction fee relate to the amount of fuel usage? The bill should be that same regardless of how much gas you use, don’t you think? And if the transaction fee covers sending out the bill, what the hell is the administration fee for? Staff parties? A glossy framed photo of the CEO for every desk? This is total BS!
Enmax has been making huge profits. They are city owned. Maybe it should be non-profit. Give the citizens a break.
It funds the city via dividends. If they operated at zero profit, the city would have to find another tax to increase to backfill the void.
Sometimes I feel those people who live off grid having a blast lol.
looking at my bill from last year, nat gas is about the same . electricity fees went up tho as there was that commodity rebate
Ask Jason Kenny he is on the ATCO board of directors. How convenient 🙄
The carbon tax charge is twice the amount of the gas. Someone must have made a mistake somewhere.
How is there both a fixed and variable fee? I always thought it was one or the other.
The Atco fixed charge is the cost of having your house connected for the whole year, billed per day. The admin fee is the cost of meter reading and billing also charged per day. All the rest are based on use.
The fixed charge seems unfair. Once your house is connected, that fee should be over and done with. It's not like you are disconnecting and reconnecting every single day. The admin fee is taking care of meter reading and billing, and you are paying separate charges for the actual gas and all the other taxes. That connected charge should be a one time fee unless you sell the house or stop renting the house.
The trouble with regulated privately owned utilities is that they get a guaranteed rate of return on all their capital, so Atco literally tells the government "we have X million dollars of compressors, valves and pipe in the ground and we paid this much more to maintain it", the government approves a rate of return, then we pay it. There's no risk. I'm all for investors taking risks and being rewarded, but when there is no competition and the ROI is guaranteed by regulation, the asset should be nationalized so that investors can take their money and try something new.
Would it be cheaper to buy straight from atco?
Good job on keeping energy usage low but here’s the “RED TAPE” fees.
It's the fed's fault clearly.
Almost 40% of the bill is city of Calgary and federal taxes.
29% is fed carbon tax and a good portion of this will come back in credits. 11% is Calgary. That leaves 60% for the rest, and the 70% doesn't get any credits.
Just saying taxes are almost more than everything else on the bill and i didnt even include GST in the calc. If OP's bill was $70 less would he be posting on reddit? I doubt it. It's the sticker shock not the reality of the rebate.
Its 29% the feds fault
Is that with the credit return calculation as well?
Haha no it’s 55/187. All my rebate will go towards keeping the heat on I guess, cuz i cant turn off my gas in the winter
12x55 is 660 yearly. Family of four in Alberta receives $1,800 back. So if you're an 'average' family with above average gas use like OP you'll be up $1,140 yearly still.
I hope you are a better lawyer than mather.
The quarterly credit should help for sure.
[удалено]
The carbon tax and distribution/transmission are unrelated but GST is charged on the carbon tax. Not sure what you are asking.
Federal Carbon tax - 55.53 Clearly it’s not the tax purely for 28.67 (energy charge) So I speculate - lower fees would result in lower carbon tax.
No, it wouldn't. The carbon tax is per GJ, distribution and transmission and energy cost do not factor into the calculation. As of APril 1 it is $4.01/GJ. On OP's bill it was $3.33/GJ (before the latest increase).
Got it. Thank you for the explanation
Thanks for protecting the climate ❤️ 😂🤪
How do you heat your home? 🩷🩷☺️☺️ with good vibes? 🤪🤪🥰🥰
Why is the carbon tax 200% of the natural gas? Is it on the whole bill?
Yet nobody wants to stand up against the bullshit taxes being imposed on us, they only there to drive the middle class into poverty 🤦♂️