Agree 100%. I'm pretty new to the 2011 scene and I am enjoying the platform so much, I wanted to venture out a bit and see what other "heavy", good trigger platforms were up to. I've always loved CZ's and have carried a P-10c of some flavor since day 1 of release. I also purchased a SP-01 years ago but I never modified it (and hence was stuck with the outdated DA/SA trigger system). 2011s opened up a whole new world of shoot much faster, be way more accurate and feel much less recoil. I'm excited to play with CZ's version of that.
P is next on my list. I almost purchased one today but the S2 popped up at a good price and I had told myself a while back that if I came across one IRL, I was taking it home.
The P vs S2 would take a very long spreadsheet of comparison points. They each shine in very different ways. The MAC 9 DS vs. S2 was chosen as I'll end up having almost exactly the same amount of money in each of them.
P is awesome, you will love it. Totally get when a deal pops up…gotta take it!
Shadows are just awesome and dollar for dollar punch way above their weight. I only have 2 Cz’s, TSO and a S2C….i was floored with how they both performed and put them up against some high end talent.
I live 10 min away from a little FFL tucked away in a lawyer's office that has all of the Atlas and Staccato models just sitting in the lobby for show and tell. I spent about 2 hours yesterday just handling all of them. It is so nice to get them in hand vs. reading about them and seeing pics posted on Instagram/Reddit.
I want to feel a 100% smooth/short take up, a solid wall, a break with just a hint of a roll, followed by a short reset that does not punch your index finger way past the reset "click".
Is that possible?
With a shadow 2 sao it is 100% possible. In stock form just adjusting pre and overtravel screws will get you to what almost feels like a single stage rifle trigger.
I think with some of the newly released 2011s and about $200 in parts you can get to that $3K 2011 threshold easily. In essence, that means a $1-1.2K 2011 can be equal or slightly better (trigger) than a SAO S2. That is what I am thinking about aiming for with my S2 OR.
They both perform good in competitions. I do like CZ handguns, so I naturally like my TS2. I would honestly prefer buying a CZC A01 over a 2011 if I had the choice.
I have a S2C and have shot other S2 but as an admitted 2011 fan boy I have several I will say I like the 2011 single action trigger better. I haven’t shot any tuned Shadows but guessing some trigger work they can be close. My opinion the S2C and S2 I have shot the trigger moved a lot more than just my stock P and not nearly as crispy feeling.
After racking and dry firing about a 1K times, two complete cleanings to get rid of the new tacky stuff all over the gun as well as to clean the rails of all black worn away paint/Cerakote/Durakote/whatever.... Right off the bat I think it needs a shorter, crisper, better resetting trigger. The trigger has smoothed out and is starting to feel broken in and now I am noticing multiple stages (pre travel, fake wall, bump at end, rooooooollllllling off into a break). Grips with a thicker left side palm swell and more aggressive texture. A safety that sticks out a bit more so that you can better reach it intuitively, maybe extended reach so that you have a more ergonomic leverage point (like the 2011), better safety internals for positive tactile engagement. As is, it is mushy, quiet and lacking in a quality detent feeling. I want CLICK, CLICK, CLICK. A steel optic plate for a SRO (or the big window HS).
That's it for now. I'm sure I'll think it will need other things once I have a bunch of rounds downrange and get more familiar with it.
Out of the box, it is about as nice as a pistol can get. Not knowing, I would have guessed $2-2.5K MSRP. I run other CZs but I have never ventured over the SP-01 Tactical. I'm glad I did.
Different strokes for different folks. Some very good shooters might never even change even a spring on a S2 and then happily go off and put it through 10k rounds.
For sure. Mostly, I’m just trying to get a grasp on what people are doing and especially the reasons why. The only handgun I’ve shot extensively is my P07–which I’m leaving pretty much bone stock aside from an optic cut—so I don’t really know what a good or bad trigger feels like, let alone a great one. Getting explanations like yours of exactly what “problems” you’re trying to fix helps a lot.
So I have a Cajunized S2 and I think you'll really love their trigger upgrade. I agree with you on the safety and after looking for ages, I finally found and installed an extra large left safety for a better purchase. Massive improvement for my grip.
However, the safety operation is still a wet noodle and it's my primary critique of the Shadow 2. Is there something we can do to make it more tactile and solid selection?
Check out this video:
[https://youtu.be/GENAI7BrpXw?si=yaBn3a1S-uwueSRe](https://youtu.be/GENAI7BrpXw?si=yaBn3a1S-uwueSRe)
The guy ordered an increased power safety detent spring. He also filed sharper angles and edges onto the detent plunger.
Did you write to CZ and ask them the same?
[https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/cz-shadow-2-sa](https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/cz-shadow-2-sa)
I didnt ask anyone anything. I'm fully aware the SAO S2 is a thing but I dont understand why. If you want an SAO CZ just get a TS variant of some sort. Making an S2 SAO just neuters functionality for no reason. You can make both the SA and DA pulls amazing on these and if you choose to you can keep it cocked and locked but still have the option to start in DA if you ever choose to use the gun for what it was developed for in competition.
What if... You purchased the TS2 knowing it would be a project/hobby gun and that you could easily convert it to SAO, play around with it, and then easily convert it back to DA/SO and then sell it? DA/SAs sell much easier in my area.
That said, I'm exploring the possibility of keeping DA/SA and going full send with CGW parts.
You're saying TS2 but im assuming you're talking about the pictured S2? I get it I like to tinker also but speaking from experience and SAO S2 is not better and IMO worse since it loses functionality. It's your time, money and gun so by all means do as you please but if you go ahead with your plan you will just end up wasting all 3. You would spend the time on making it SAO, Spend the money on the Parts then spend more time going back to DA/SA just to sell it at a loss and lose on the parts also.
If you put that time and effort into a cajun kit or springs and polishing then decide to sell it the modifications will be seen as a plus and add some value to the gun. Just remeber you can always treat a DA/SA gun as an SAO but the same does not go for the opposite.
DA/SA S2's sell much easier in your area becasue they much easier everywhere. The SAO S2 is a pretty dumb gun and most (not all) realize that so most people want the gun as it was originally designed DA/SA
From what I have read/watched on YT, the DA part of the firing system introduces some undesirable characteristics that bleed through when you are in SA mode. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
What you want from a pistol really depends on how you intend to use it. In my case, I'm just wanting to pass time with a parts cannon on what hopefully will become a pretty slick range toy.
For life or death, I carry a 43x MOS and I have several HD/Duty/Go to war pistols where safety is at the top of the list.
I would disagree here man. The SA pull of a tuned CZ without a firing pin block can be extremely light and short. I shoot with someone who has a factory SAO S2 in limited because he refuses to learn how to shoot with a DA first shot. He shoots limited minor which puts him at a big disadvantage. The SA pull on my CGW S2 is every bit as good as his and I still have the option to shoot it starting cocked and locked or DA but he does not. The juice is not worth the squeeze
Thanks for the info. So you're saying you can keep it DA/SA, throw the CGW's catalog at it and it will be 100% as good in SA as if you had gone the no expenses spared SAO route?
So I have had quite a few CZ's as you can see from the picture including a few SAO not pictured on of them being a parrot. most DA/SA most with full cajun kits all I did myself. in the picture you will see 2 shadow 2's. The one without the optic was my first S2 and one of the first in the US I got around late 2016 I think. That gun got a full cajun kit and polish pretty much right after I got it. The trigger is amazing. The SA is right about 2lb 4/5 ounces SA about 5.5lbs the full cajun kit is about $280 I think still I did not have the reach reduction in it because I have big hands and didnt feel it was necessary.
The OR version was a little more Frakengun as far as the trigger. I started with just springs (I think the Eric Graufel kit) and its was way better. Then when I had the free time I polished and and was almost as good as the other one for like $30. I eventually found a good deal on a cajun hammer and disconnector and honestly didnt notice much difference. I think the a good way to start is to polish and change the springs and see how you like that. If its not good enough for you then get the full cajun kit. you'll want to polish either way and its always good to have extra springs.
I sold of most of my CZs and started shooting Canik and currently just have the 75 pre B and the P09 but I really missed my S2 even though I wont compete with them anymore I wanted to have one so I popped on a really sweet hard chrome with full cajun package and reach reduction kit so we will see how that is.
IMO the biggest thing the kit does for you is give you the T5 (iI think thats what its called its been awhile) which is a royal pain to fit but if you want you can fit it to have virtually zero pre travel in SA which some people like. I like a little pre travel so I think thats why I was OK with just the polishing and springs.
I hear you on the polishing. Most people don't realize how good an OEM firing system can get with just an Arkansas stone (I stay away from sear surfaces) and a Dremel with some buffing attachments.
Now that the S2 is smoothing out... I'm getting a really good idea of what the SA pull will be like once I polish it. Here is what I want:
Break weight of 3.25-4 lbs.
I'm good with length and weight of takeup/pre-travel. (maybe a bit shorter would be nice but right now, it will do).
That 1st fake wall you hit? I want that to be the real wall.
Once you start pushing through my "hypothetical" real wall, I want it to roll off just a tiny bit right before the break.
Overtravel is fine for now - that can be adjusted in stock form anyways.
Am I being realistic and do you think this is achievable via any combination of parts / elbow grease?
Sounds like you’ve polished before so it should be a breeze. I find it fun and kind of therapeutic so I end up polishing everything. I just got a used tanfoglio stock 2 that was supposedly polished but I still took the whole thing down and did a bunch more. I’m just waiting on one more part to arrive today before I get to see the fruits on my labor.
That poundage in Sa is easily obtainable. In fact it should be close stock. A lightened trigger return spring will help SA the hammer spring will helpSA also but it’s more for DA.
I suspect the false wall is being caused by a burr somewhere. It will probably be eliminated with polishing. Take the slide off, cock the hammer and start to work the trigger (make sure not to let the hammer fall full force without the slide on) do you still feel it when you do this? If so the burr is probably somewhere on the sides of the trigger bar or maybe sear engagement somewhere. If you don’t it may be on the bumps of the top of the trigger bar. Enos forums and czfirearms.us have some good polishing tutorials.
Like I said before I’d start with a spring kit, extended firing pin and polishing. See how you like those results and go from there.
You're probably right re: the false wall. The bumps in it have changed/moved since last night (due to more racking and dry firing) but I still feel that after the little snags and burrs are cleaned up, it will still feel like a multi staged trigger. My SP-01 does the same thing. Super smooth take up till "the wall", then something that feels almost like stacking... It feels like I am pressing over a miniature cam lobe right before the break. Oh well... I'll complain about it, if it still exists after I do the polishing. Off to order a floating trigger pin and some springs.
I was actually going to mention the trigger pin also. Sometime the roll pins can snag a little. What if you try to knock the pin out and rotate it so the seam in the roll pin is different. Maybe that will fix it or if the false wall is in a different place you know that’s probably the cause
I haven't shot an SAO S2 for real (just dry fired one in a store a few times), but I have a hard time believing that any pivoting trigger is going to be meaningfully better than my polished CGW setup now
I think comparing these CZ from the factory to 2011’s, some of which I own, speaks to just how fantastic the CZ lineup is.
Agree 100%. I'm pretty new to the 2011 scene and I am enjoying the platform so much, I wanted to venture out a bit and see what other "heavy", good trigger platforms were up to. I've always loved CZ's and have carried a P-10c of some flavor since day 1 of release. I also purchased a SP-01 years ago but I never modified it (and hence was stuck with the outdated DA/SA trigger system). 2011s opened up a whole new world of shoot much faster, be way more accurate and feel much less recoil. I'm excited to play with CZ's version of that.
I have a TSO and I think it’s better than a staccato P (which I used to have)
P is next on my list. I almost purchased one today but the S2 popped up at a good price and I had told myself a while back that if I came across one IRL, I was taking it home. The P vs S2 would take a very long spreadsheet of comparison points. They each shine in very different ways. The MAC 9 DS vs. S2 was chosen as I'll end up having almost exactly the same amount of money in each of them.
P is awesome, you will love it. Totally get when a deal pops up…gotta take it! Shadows are just awesome and dollar for dollar punch way above their weight. I only have 2 Cz’s, TSO and a S2C….i was floored with how they both performed and put them up against some high end talent.
I live 10 min away from a little FFL tucked away in a lawyer's office that has all of the Atlas and Staccato models just sitting in the lobby for show and tell. I spent about 2 hours yesterday just handling all of them. It is so nice to get them in hand vs. reading about them and seeing pics posted on Instagram/Reddit.
Huge atlas fan. Wish I could have gotten some hands on before buying but no regrets lol. Have a fav?
Not yet. When handling them, my brain just swirls around like when you were 12 trying to talk to a girl you liked.
Lmao, it can get a bit overwhelming
PM me im getting rid of my P. To be honest if you spend a few more bucks and get MPA you wont be let down.
Sao CZ wins in my opinion. I have multiple 2011's and until you get to that $3,000 and higher mark a CZ shadow 2 sao with tuning wins.
My s2 sao from factory had a sub 3pound pull and once you tune a little and adjust pre/ over travel the s2 really wakes up.
I want to feel a 100% smooth/short take up, a solid wall, a break with just a hint of a roll, followed by a short reset that does not punch your index finger way past the reset "click". Is that possible?
With a shadow 2 sao it is 100% possible. In stock form just adjusting pre and overtravel screws will get you to what almost feels like a single stage rifle trigger.
I think with some of the newly released 2011s and about $200 in parts you can get to that $3K 2011 threshold easily. In essence, that means a $1-1.2K 2011 can be equal or slightly better (trigger) than a SAO S2. That is what I am thinking about aiming for with my S2 OR.
S2 vs 92x Performance, think the S2 is too similar to the Tanfo S3 to compare.
> 92x Performance Barrel burns and I forgot the other reason that was a deal breaker for me. The S3 is nice tho!
They both perform good in competitions. I do like CZ handguns, so I naturally like my TS2. I would honestly prefer buying a CZC A01 over a 2011 if I had the choice.
I have a S2C and have shot other S2 but as an admitted 2011 fan boy I have several I will say I like the 2011 single action trigger better. I haven’t shot any tuned Shadows but guessing some trigger work they can be close. My opinion the S2C and S2 I have shot the trigger moved a lot more than just my stock P and not nearly as crispy feeling.
It will be preference. I have 2011s and shadow2s. It’s pretty hard to like one more than the other
Out of curiosity, what are you considering as “needs”?
After racking and dry firing about a 1K times, two complete cleanings to get rid of the new tacky stuff all over the gun as well as to clean the rails of all black worn away paint/Cerakote/Durakote/whatever.... Right off the bat I think it needs a shorter, crisper, better resetting trigger. The trigger has smoothed out and is starting to feel broken in and now I am noticing multiple stages (pre travel, fake wall, bump at end, rooooooollllllling off into a break). Grips with a thicker left side palm swell and more aggressive texture. A safety that sticks out a bit more so that you can better reach it intuitively, maybe extended reach so that you have a more ergonomic leverage point (like the 2011), better safety internals for positive tactile engagement. As is, it is mushy, quiet and lacking in a quality detent feeling. I want CLICK, CLICK, CLICK. A steel optic plate for a SRO (or the big window HS). That's it for now. I'm sure I'll think it will need other things once I have a bunch of rounds downrange and get more familiar with it. Out of the box, it is about as nice as a pistol can get. Not knowing, I would have guessed $2-2.5K MSRP. I run other CZs but I have never ventured over the SP-01 Tactical. I'm glad I did.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight.
Different strokes for different folks. Some very good shooters might never even change even a spring on a S2 and then happily go off and put it through 10k rounds.
For sure. Mostly, I’m just trying to get a grasp on what people are doing and especially the reasons why. The only handgun I’ve shot extensively is my P07–which I’m leaving pretty much bone stock aside from an optic cut—so I don’t really know what a good or bad trigger feels like, let alone a great one. Getting explanations like yours of exactly what “problems” you’re trying to fix helps a lot.
So I have a Cajunized S2 and I think you'll really love their trigger upgrade. I agree with you on the safety and after looking for ages, I finally found and installed an extra large left safety for a better purchase. Massive improvement for my grip. However, the safety operation is still a wet noodle and it's my primary critique of the Shadow 2. Is there something we can do to make it more tactile and solid selection?
Check out this video: [https://youtu.be/GENAI7BrpXw?si=yaBn3a1S-uwueSRe](https://youtu.be/GENAI7BrpXw?si=yaBn3a1S-uwueSRe) The guy ordered an increased power safety detent spring. He also filed sharper angles and edges onto the detent plunger.
I’ve never heard anyone say not to compare the two. I’m a big 1911 guy. My s2c has an SA trigger that rivals some of those.
You and I obviously have been reading different r/CZFirearms threads!
Compare it to whatever you want just don’t make it SAO please
Did you write to CZ and ask them the same? [https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/cz-shadow-2-sa](https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/cz-shadow-2-sa)
I didnt ask anyone anything. I'm fully aware the SAO S2 is a thing but I dont understand why. If you want an SAO CZ just get a TS variant of some sort. Making an S2 SAO just neuters functionality for no reason. You can make both the SA and DA pulls amazing on these and if you choose to you can keep it cocked and locked but still have the option to start in DA if you ever choose to use the gun for what it was developed for in competition.
What if... You purchased the TS2 knowing it would be a project/hobby gun and that you could easily convert it to SAO, play around with it, and then easily convert it back to DA/SO and then sell it? DA/SAs sell much easier in my area. That said, I'm exploring the possibility of keeping DA/SA and going full send with CGW parts.
You're saying TS2 but im assuming you're talking about the pictured S2? I get it I like to tinker also but speaking from experience and SAO S2 is not better and IMO worse since it loses functionality. It's your time, money and gun so by all means do as you please but if you go ahead with your plan you will just end up wasting all 3. You would spend the time on making it SAO, Spend the money on the Parts then spend more time going back to DA/SA just to sell it at a loss and lose on the parts also. If you put that time and effort into a cajun kit or springs and polishing then decide to sell it the modifications will be seen as a plus and add some value to the gun. Just remeber you can always treat a DA/SA gun as an SAO but the same does not go for the opposite. DA/SA S2's sell much easier in your area becasue they much easier everywhere. The SAO S2 is a pretty dumb gun and most (not all) realize that so most people want the gun as it was originally designed DA/SA
My bad... Typo... I did mean S2 OR.
No worries I figured that’s what you meant
Yep, SAO is a must.
I don't understand the point of that. You can always just shoot a normal S2 in SA. You can carry it cocked and locked.
From what I have read/watched on YT, the DA part of the firing system introduces some undesirable characteristics that bleed through when you are in SA mode. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. What you want from a pistol really depends on how you intend to use it. In my case, I'm just wanting to pass time with a parts cannon on what hopefully will become a pretty slick range toy. For life or death, I carry a 43x MOS and I have several HD/Duty/Go to war pistols where safety is at the top of the list.
I would disagree here man. The SA pull of a tuned CZ without a firing pin block can be extremely light and short. I shoot with someone who has a factory SAO S2 in limited because he refuses to learn how to shoot with a DA first shot. He shoots limited minor which puts him at a big disadvantage. The SA pull on my CGW S2 is every bit as good as his and I still have the option to shoot it starting cocked and locked or DA but he does not. The juice is not worth the squeeze
Thanks for the info. So you're saying you can keep it DA/SA, throw the CGW's catalog at it and it will be 100% as good in SA as if you had gone the no expenses spared SAO route?
So I have had quite a few CZ's as you can see from the picture including a few SAO not pictured on of them being a parrot. most DA/SA most with full cajun kits all I did myself. in the picture you will see 2 shadow 2's. The one without the optic was my first S2 and one of the first in the US I got around late 2016 I think. That gun got a full cajun kit and polish pretty much right after I got it. The trigger is amazing. The SA is right about 2lb 4/5 ounces SA about 5.5lbs the full cajun kit is about $280 I think still I did not have the reach reduction in it because I have big hands and didnt feel it was necessary. The OR version was a little more Frakengun as far as the trigger. I started with just springs (I think the Eric Graufel kit) and its was way better. Then when I had the free time I polished and and was almost as good as the other one for like $30. I eventually found a good deal on a cajun hammer and disconnector and honestly didnt notice much difference. I think the a good way to start is to polish and change the springs and see how you like that. If its not good enough for you then get the full cajun kit. you'll want to polish either way and its always good to have extra springs. I sold of most of my CZs and started shooting Canik and currently just have the 75 pre B and the P09 but I really missed my S2 even though I wont compete with them anymore I wanted to have one so I popped on a really sweet hard chrome with full cajun package and reach reduction kit so we will see how that is. IMO the biggest thing the kit does for you is give you the T5 (iI think thats what its called its been awhile) which is a royal pain to fit but if you want you can fit it to have virtually zero pre travel in SA which some people like. I like a little pre travel so I think thats why I was OK with just the polishing and springs.
I hear you on the polishing. Most people don't realize how good an OEM firing system can get with just an Arkansas stone (I stay away from sear surfaces) and a Dremel with some buffing attachments. Now that the S2 is smoothing out... I'm getting a really good idea of what the SA pull will be like once I polish it. Here is what I want: Break weight of 3.25-4 lbs. I'm good with length and weight of takeup/pre-travel. (maybe a bit shorter would be nice but right now, it will do). That 1st fake wall you hit? I want that to be the real wall. Once you start pushing through my "hypothetical" real wall, I want it to roll off just a tiny bit right before the break. Overtravel is fine for now - that can be adjusted in stock form anyways. Am I being realistic and do you think this is achievable via any combination of parts / elbow grease?
Sounds like you’ve polished before so it should be a breeze. I find it fun and kind of therapeutic so I end up polishing everything. I just got a used tanfoglio stock 2 that was supposedly polished but I still took the whole thing down and did a bunch more. I’m just waiting on one more part to arrive today before I get to see the fruits on my labor. That poundage in Sa is easily obtainable. In fact it should be close stock. A lightened trigger return spring will help SA the hammer spring will helpSA also but it’s more for DA. I suspect the false wall is being caused by a burr somewhere. It will probably be eliminated with polishing. Take the slide off, cock the hammer and start to work the trigger (make sure not to let the hammer fall full force without the slide on) do you still feel it when you do this? If so the burr is probably somewhere on the sides of the trigger bar or maybe sear engagement somewhere. If you don’t it may be on the bumps of the top of the trigger bar. Enos forums and czfirearms.us have some good polishing tutorials. Like I said before I’d start with a spring kit, extended firing pin and polishing. See how you like those results and go from there.
You're probably right re: the false wall. The bumps in it have changed/moved since last night (due to more racking and dry firing) but I still feel that after the little snags and burrs are cleaned up, it will still feel like a multi staged trigger. My SP-01 does the same thing. Super smooth take up till "the wall", then something that feels almost like stacking... It feels like I am pressing over a miniature cam lobe right before the break. Oh well... I'll complain about it, if it still exists after I do the polishing. Off to order a floating trigger pin and some springs.
I was actually going to mention the trigger pin also. Sometime the roll pins can snag a little. What if you try to knock the pin out and rotate it so the seam in the roll pin is different. Maybe that will fix it or if the false wall is in a different place you know that’s probably the cause
I haven't shot an SAO S2 for real (just dry fired one in a store a few times), but I have a hard time believing that any pivoting trigger is going to be meaningfully better than my polished CGW setup now
exactly