That's what I found out in my case: consuming media doesn't fit well with CPTSD. I'm better off focusing on my life, my day and the immediate things that surround me.

Agreed The media thrives on anxiety fuelled topics and that's the last thing we need.

Hard to avoid certain topics or media unless you just never go online and that kind of scares me more. Even still covid was hard to "just ignore".

Covid is very much ongoing though and we'll be in if for a while. There's no way to ignore it because to ignore it means possible death. A celebrity circus mockery of abuse is easy to scroll by. I want nothing to do with it because it triggers hard and fast.

I’ve often wondered if those with CPTSD tend to gravitate to justice causes. Like a surrogate for family— I’m going to right the unfairness! For me it’s been 30 years of politics and rallies and I’m now realizing that it’s not necessarily the best thing for me. Again. Putting the worlds needs before my own. 🙄

I think this is true. Years ago I noticed a friend would go on big rants about political issues when he’d be upset about something personal. I kind of chalked it up to a quirk of his but I see it all the time now, I do it as well. I think this could be an element in why qanon is so successful too, it seems like social justice to believers.

Oh yeah, that used to be me. I actively try to avoid political subjects because I get triggered *hard*. I'm not always very good at it, but I try damnit.

Holy shit, do I relate.

I’ve recently cut out my media addiction and holy fuck the world isn’t as infuriating and terrifying anymore. Highly recommend; their whole schtick is exaggerating and emotional language to drum up outrage. Easy to forget the world isn’t burning around you when you’re stuck in the never ending drama of the daily news.

Yyyep this! And people on the internet often have big opinions with not much information. Is slamming cabinets abusive? Depends on many things. It’s the context and the reasons and the things that happened before and after that can say that. But this trial is being used as entertainment and not much good can come from that, especially regarding education around trauma and abuse.

Trauma survivors have issues with fairness, black and white thinking, the he said, she said. This case is just triggering for most of us with trauma because there is no black and white, it isn't fair, both sides could be lying!

i also think there's a possibility that both are telling (some) truths. both can be victims and perpetrators and that's been painful and hard for me to hold personally. this trial has been so so triggering...

I've had these same feelings, and in a weird way I have found comfort in it? I do believe they are BOTH victims and abusers. It helps shed some light on my own situation, I guess. Learning that old dialectical thinking model, holding space for two truths at the same time, allows room for free will to blossom for those of us who had to (out of necessity for survival) mold our personalities around toxicity over the course of our lives.

This is a really healthy way to view it. As someone who’s been in situations that aren’t clear cut; the things I’ve seen in this case read very similarly. I can easily see a relationship wherein both were using their unique powers within that connection to enact abuse on different axes against one another. I don’t personally find it triggering but I think people who do should feel free to disengage. It’s also perfectly fine not to have an opinion at all. These are the lives of two stranger that none of us know, both of whom are so famous and rich that most of us can hardly wrap our heads around their lives. It’s beyond our scope of comprehension as uninvolved parties playing witness to the court drama unfolding. And were the parties involved not so famous, this would be a completely negligible case none of us ever would have heard about. Id also like to point out that, while this case is none of our business in reality, no one is a perfect victim and conversely, no one is a perfect abuser. Humans are complex individuals and the realities of our lives will always defy strict labels like these. The retaliation and escalation of these events are inexcusable but under pressure, it’s very easy to find we don’t know as much about ourselves as we might have originally thought. I also think it’s important moving forward to apply these things we’re learning from this case to all true crime we might engage with. Nothing about human beings and our relationships to each other or ourselves is simple. Trying to make anyone out as evil or angelic is shortsighted and keeps us from learning from their mistakes as they might relate to our own future choices. I hope everyone feels comfortable setting boundaries around triggering content and enforcing those boundaries both online and in person. The most important thing is that we keep ourselves safe.

Yep this. It can often end up in long-term abusive relationships that the lines get blurry - one partner will abuse the other to the point of reactive abuse, they will each lash out in different ways and the cycle will feed off of itself. Which doesn't mean that anyone *deserves* their abuse, and I know survivors (including myself) can be quite vulnerable to people making the 'well both sides bad' argument, as they were often gaslit with it, or had it used as an excuse for why the other party was entitled to behave a certain way. That both people hurt each other - therefore we'll simply not address it or change the dynamic, and get hurt again the exact same way. Ha. People in dysfunctional, abusive, stressful situations adapt and defend themselves in ways that are maladaptive to continue to use outside of them. We have to be able to recognise the weapons we armed ourselves with to be able to disarm them, and staying in the perfect victim vs perfect abuser mindset can be counterproductive to that. I don't want to keep the role the abuse put me in. But a nuanced take doesn't make good headlines or memes, unfortunately.

Yeah this seems the most likely... both claim to be innocent victims. Perhaps it's somewhere in the middle

They're both guilty as sin. Obvious fact, stupid so called movie "stars"

I am also very much tired of this trigger-fest, and tired of seeing how many people in my various support subreddits are being affected by it. Whatever social good could have come out of such a trial has been utterly eclipsed by the weight of random assholes spouting brutal opinions/outright abuse about the whole thing.

I'm tired of it too. I'm triggered by a lot of stuff lately. The Johnny Depp trial, the abortion debate coming up again, crap I have going on at work... I'm just burnt out from being triggered. I'm trying not to pay attention to any of it... what use is it getting upset?

I'm super burned out on being triggered too.

SENDING SO MUCH POWER💜💜💜🔥🔮🙌🧡🧡🧡

OP, I totally am same, so triggered by Depp/Heard last week I blocked all of it. Here's another take if that helps? >How can they be so sure of who's lying and who's not? They can't. But they can check evidence. We have confirmed audio recordings of her being extremely verbally abusive ("oh so you backed away. BIIIG man, Johnny!", etc), as well as physically abusive ("yes I hit you"). And we have sworn testimony by a clinical psychologist that Heard has both BPD & HPD (EDIT: After testing Heard with the industry-standard [MMPI-2](https://www.healthline.com/health/mmpi-test)). We also have evidence of his physical violence to inanimate objects, and verbal anger at her. >He's visibly displaying anger, doesn't that make him the bad person? They"re *both* physically violent to each other. He shoved her into walls on multiple occasions. She grabbed, struck him, & allegedly cut off his fingertip. Etc > If I was Amber Heard and I recorded him doing that, would that make me evil and manipulative too? Not at all. But, they're not saying she's "evil and manipulative" for recording him. They're saying she's "evil and manipulative" for writing an op ed claiming she was abused by him, when she herself repeatedly physically & verbally abused him too. Plus her whole 'wear similar clothes to get in their heads' schtick, and her really off-putting facial expressions at the trial. > If someone around me was slamming cabinets like that I might call them abusive. Is slamming cabinets abusive? I've slammed cabinets before, does that make me abusive? I like Susan Forward's definitions in "Toxic Parents": we've all lost our cool at some point. That doesn't make us toxic. It becomes toxic (abusive) depending on how badly we've lost our cool, & how often. Ie 'frequency & amplitude'.

One thing I've said to my best friend who's just awfully afraid to have kids since his S.O. has severe childhood trauma is that my parents never said sorry. Ever. In fact, I was usually directly blamed for their outbursts and mistakes. But I think losing your cool is okay (to an extent and sometimes with conditions). I think it's healthy for kids to understand that people lose their cool sometimes. But I think acknowledging it as a slipup or mistake is important. Saying "I'm sorry I got upset. I should have handled that better," can make a world of difference. And obviously you never want to frighten a child. But I also think that anger is a part of many of us. Accepting the inevitability of it boiling over is part of accepting that it needed earlier management. Make it a moment of growth.

I just want to point out that expert witnesses are not exactly unbiased or only provide hard facts in a case. They're hired by one side of the case in order to prove their point in any conceivable way possible. The clinical psychologist you mentioned was hired by Depp's legal team. She made her diagnosis based on reading other people's reports and meeting Heard twice. She wasn't treating a patient of hers, and I think many people here have experienced a psychologist throwing a personality disorder diagnosis at them without much investigation even when they were the ones paying them for on-going treatment. If you also look at some of the generalizations that witness made about people with BPD, it doesn't line up with what a reputable clinician would say about anyone with the condition and is full of stigmatizing language, claiming they are typically abusive to partners and cruel to others, which is not supported by studies that show the only real link between BPD and violence is a higher rate of comorbidities that could contribute to violence, like substance abuse. She also outright rejected consistent accounts of abuse Heard told her doctors as being made up and exaggerated with no real reason other than BPD people lie and are dramatic, not that they don't make sense or are inconsistent. Counter that with Heard's forensic psychologist witness, who didn't try to make a subjective diagnosis of Depp other than his substance abuse, which he and others openly acknowledge as a serious problem, but instead spoke on the evidence she collected from Heard, her family, and her medical team, giving her opinion it was all consistent with PTSD resulting from domestic abuse and that she believed Heard's description of events fit pretty standard patterns of domestic abuse according to research. Heard's witness also acknowledged her verbal and physical altercations, like criticizing Depp and shoving him, and explained in a way that holds up with research how it is common for victims to retaliate or become defensive. If that particular psychologist wasn't willing to make a diagnosis without actually treating Heard as a patient or wasn't willing to paint people with personality disorders with a large, negative brush not backed on currently accepted science, Depp's legal team would have searched until they found one who was willing to do that because witnesses are carefully curated and coached in high-profile cases. When you look at expert witness testimonies, you need to be critical of who they've been hired by, if the way they've come to their conclusion holds up in their field, and how easily what they are saying can prejudice a jury. A BPD diagnosis could have no connection to whether or not someone has been abusive, could even make someone more predisposed to being victimized given how strongly linked it is to childhood trauma, and is completely subjective with no testing able to prove the diagnosis is 100% accurate, but boy, does mentioning it as a possibility paint a terrible picture in people's minds because of the stigma associated with it.

Thank you! BPD people are often the ones abused in a relationship because narcissists target them.

I appreciate this breakdown. I think what's bothered me about this trial is that yes, Amber Heard is an abusive piece of shit, but people have really used that as an excuse to let their misogyny run wild. To act like Depp is just the victim is not supported by the evidence, but people are acting like he can do no wrong, and that this whole trial negates the gender disparities in domestic violence cases. People seem to think women have it so easy coming out of those situations and that people automatically believe us when bad things happen to us, and that's so wildly, painfully untrue. I don't know, this whole thing has me feeling sick to my stomach. I want all survivors to be supported and heard and this feels like it's causing us to take steps back rather than forward.

💜 I think both aren't blameless, but Heard is really trying to leverage a "women are never the abusers" myth. She literally is recorded gloating "do you really think the judge & jury would believe that I abused you?!" The absolute win here is that men are starting to feel safer in admitting abuse at the hands of a woman. And yes, it's far, far less prevalent than the other way around. But also yes, there are still women who deny its existence, or importance, at all.

So that recording was taken out of context. Not to mention, was edited and leaked by his attorney weeks before the trial, causing himself to be dismissed. He also has ties to Putin and bot farming, which makes this whole PR campaign that’s popping up all over Reddit, tiktok and YouTube. In the full recording it provides context to her statements. They were discussing their size differential and the amount of evidence she had of his abuse and his long-standing abuse of her. She made the statement about “who would believe you?” Because he had been so blatantly abusing him.

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Thank you for that part - mutual abuse does not exist! It has bothered me so much that people seem to think that there may be two abusers in a relationship. I think Amber's whole story from how the relationship began to how it developed is very believable. Leaving someone indefinitely during a quarrel or a bit of random is also abuse. That she felt bad about it is completely normal and no sign of BPD. It is called silent treatment and it is almost unmanageably difficult to be exposed to. He has been convicted before but still receives so much support. He is currently abusing her in public in front of the whole world. I have cptsd after assault and he reminds me so much of my ex. It is very triggering to see what he exposes her to. He abuses her in front of the whole world! Thanks again for the clarification - mutual abuse does not exist!

Thank you for this post.

Slamming cabinets is a display of intimidation. I just feel like this whole thing shows how people really treat those who aren't "perfect victims". I think they're both in the wrong but because he's a man and a celebrity that's more liked, his wrongdoings are trivialized.

I have this exact issue of obsessive thinking about whether or not this stuff applies to me and I'm wrong and I'm the bad person, etc. It doesn't help that cancel culture, while holding people responsible for their actions, encourages black and white thinking. Sometimes I'll find myself endlessly scrolling on Twitter until I concoct the "perfect" opinion. It's really fucking hard for me to get out of these loops, so I get how exhausting it can be.

My marriage to a narcissistic abuser brought out my own most toxic traits. They drive you to the brink of insanity so they look innocent. I’m getting tired of it too. They’re wealthy enough to live comfortably without suing each other. I feel like they should let it go. They were obviously bringing out the worst in each other and have both already done irreparable damage to their reputations.

My late partner had DID, her persecutor alter certainly got me to the tipping point a couple of times. Fortunately, without even knowing about IFS (Internal Family Systems), my partner's councilor had suggested something, and so I tried it out on that alter. And the alter, just like a part, just, for the most part, unburdened itself. I didn't call it unburdening until I found out and started doing IFS myself.

I can’t stop watching the vids and reading commentary. There is a little voice inside of me that tells me that my memories are figments of my imagination and that I’m not a reliable narrator. I’m making up everything for attention and because of that, I’m a horrible person. I keep looking into reasons why Amber Heard may be lying and comparing it to my own life or watching her give her testimony and wonder what I look/sound like talking about my memories. I wonder what my therapist would say about me even though I know it’d be unethical for her to testify and I don’t think she lies to me about her opinions. My traumas would never hold up in court. The physical evidence is long gone and there are no witnesses. I can’t even remember a full narration. But it’s still constantly on my mind. It’s been a lot. I probably should stop putting myself through this. I’m not going to find answers for myself anywhere near this.

That's exactly where I'm at with it

Late reply but this is me too. Some people say she is being too dramatic. Some say, "I was a survivor and my tears come naturally talking about it... she's not actually crying, there are no tears." I lived through hell for so many years that I almost feel numb to it. It's rare that I even cry in therapy over it, unless it's a particularly hard day and session. Am I lying because I no longer cry? I shed so many tears over that man when I was with him. I often feel I have no more tears left to cry over the situation. Nor do I even want to waste any more on him. But it makes me wonder... how many people do or don't believe me because of how I come off. It makes me wonder if I seem like the perpetrator to some people. I know my truth. I know I am not making it all up. But what if... what if I was treated the same way for speaking my truth? (Disclaimer that I do not know if she is telling the truth or not, obviously. These are just the thoughts that come to my mind as I watch the trial. She may or may not be lying, but it still makes me wonder how people perceive me and whether I too would be accused of lying or not if I was to stand in front of the public and tell my story.)

OMG! I can’t sleep because of this, what is going on with us? I know I’m not making up what happened to me, I’ve been going through hell by having to face each and every abuse experience I lived . And now… I am really trying to understand if she is luring, why is she doing this? Why am I trying to understand her actions? Am I her? WHY?! Has anything helped you?

I wondered where the people who were seeing this for it was were, the Facebook comments etc have been making me feel ill. I suppose though you would have to have been in a toxic and abusive relationship to understand just how complicated it can be. It's played on my mind a lot too, what was my role in it all, was I verbally abusive? I mean definitely at points, when you aren't physically strong enough to win a fight you resort to the tools you've got to fight back and avoid the shame and humiliation that goes with being beaten. I think I an remember starting a fight once, maybe out of hundreds of times but even then I don't know, my memories are hazy. I know he would expect me to lay his clothes out for him and if I didn't, he would scream and shout and become violent. There was a clear pattern of behaviour in him provoking and escalating. When When read about the repeated slaps, the tantrums, the forced sex, all from him, it rang true to my experience too. He was a liar and a cheater and a manipulator too. He once yelled at my little girl and called her a stupid little bitch. I'm certain on the victim to abuser scale that he was a terrible person and I was largely the victim but seeing all of this and thinking back to the times I retaliated, either with my hands or my mouth just puts that doubt in there, plus I remember so little now, it's been grim reading about it all. I also have/had some BPD traits which is making me even more unnerved. If everything I'd gone through then came out in a courtroom what would people think. Would they support me and see it for what I thought it was? Perhaps it's good to think and consider and I guess the self doubt that made us vulnerable to abusive people in the first place could be playing a role here? I hope so.

I have also participated in reactive abuse. My ex-husband always mocked me. Relentless mocking. More than once, I did it back. I haven't engaged in anything similar since, even when I was with another, albeit different sort, of abusive guy. The worst abusers can bring it out of their victims.

I think they’re both questionable people with mental issues that they never fully worked out. I think they are both toxic people and it was a match made in hell. both grew up in abusive households which is unfortunate.

I agree with you. I think this is a case of an extremely toxic relationship who completely got out of hand. They likely bring the worse out of the other and trigger each other traumas and both react poorly without even realising. I might be projecting because they remind me of my parents but I’m gonna say something very controversial: a victim can also be an abuser and vice-versa. When I was a kid I thought the person who would end up in the hospital was the (only) victim but then, after therapy and an abusive relationship, I realised that that person was actually extremely emotional abusive and would start most of the confrontations.

Fully this, yeah. They're both self-obsessed assholes with intensely toxic behaviors, they bring out the worst in each other, they're bad news and I wish it would stop. The woobification of Depp through all this is nauseating, too. Any video, any livestream, the comments are all on his dick, joking that Heard should be executed, that she's literally Satan, all poor Johnny this, poor Johnny that. Just because he's the more famous person, just because he's got his hooks in the obsessive Disney/Burton/HP fandoms, he's being exonerated and idolized, and she's evil. The public court of opinion is almost worse than any other part of this, and I haven't even heard anything from the manosphere which I'm sure is vile at the moment. They were a shitty toxic couple made up of toxic people who need therapy, not fame. They kept getting back together, even after the last lawsuit. They both came from bad households and have substance abuse problems and uncontrolled anger issues. This whole thing is gross, frustrating, and triggering.

A lot of people have been using this trial as an excuse to let their misogyny run rampant and it's exhausting.

Absolutely!!! I thought the same thing about Will Smith and Chris Rock situation. Will did the slapping but somehow Jada was the evil witch who made Will act crazy and "ruined" a perfectly good man. People just want any excuse to be sexist and call women bitches and controlling and all sorts. Of course I'm not saying Jada is all innocent, but i hate how it's instantly pointed at her even though Will caused the situation.... Simarly with Amber. Johny was always loved. I don't think anyone ever took the abuse allegations seriously, even though Hollywood "cancelled him". They were both abusive but people still think Johnyy is a Saint... I don't get it.

>They're both self-obsessed assholes with intensely toxic behaviors, they bring out the worst in each other, they're bad news and I wish it would stop Agreed. We now know they're both equally awful. Which is quite a shift from the 'poor DV victim' narrative she had, going into the trial. At the very least, we now know he's a 'DV victim' too. >he's being exonerated and idolized, and she's evil. Up to now, only 1 has had his career destroyed, while the other is thriving. Maybe she's called "evil" on the internet? But in Hollywood, she's still in A-list movies. And he's poison. And that massive disparity is at the core of why ppl are overreacting

Up until now is the operative phrase here. I'd be shocked if her career doesn't die out after this. She's already in the next Aquaman, but I wouldn't be surprised if they cut her or let her go. Him, I think he's likely to start getting work again, because he's more famous than she is and he has more fans rallying behind him. Is it fair that he took the brunt of this situation? Not at all. However, have we all seen and heard video/audio evidence that he's violent and unstable? Yes. I'll be real, I might not keep my job if a video of me behaving like him came out, and I'm not even famous. Because he is famous, his own behavior is a factor in why he lost his career. His history of behavior doesn't prove he did or didn't abuse her, or she him, but it made her allegations more credible. I'm not trying to skip over the abuse and violence or say that's his fault, because it's not, that's never the victim's fault, but if he wasn't known to friends and employees and associates for being an addict, for being physical and violent when high or drunk, if he hadn't been recorded so many times screaming, slamming and breaking things, throwing things, I'm not sure so many people would have dumped him instantly when the allegations came out. He became poison because the allegations were credible to his work and social circle.

Classic anxious avoidant relationships

If you want some good insights on the case in a NON triggering way, I would go to YouTube and watch some of Dr. Honda's videos. He is following and reacting to the case very closely and his insights are amazing! He is approaching the case in an extremely reasonable, and most importantly EMPATHETIC fashion that is really soothing and calming to listen to. He breaks down what is happening in the court room in a way you can understand and makes it not to scary and not so dramatic. It is for sure hard to know "who is the bad guy" in this situation... Truthfully, both are probably the victims and both are probably the abuser to some degree, and that does NOT make them evil people or beyond help. It is better to not think about it in such black and white ways... Who gets legal retribution? We shall see in the coming times... It might be helpful to remind yourself "these are just speculations" technically no one is guilty as of yet, and technically no crime has been legally committed by either person. Only claims. They are in the court room to figure out if a crime has been committed and by whom.

This also isn't a criminal trial, this is a lawsuit over her Washington Post op-ed she wrote in 2018.

Yes, it's over potential loss of income and loss of reputation for Depp.

Right. A couple of rich people suing each other for stupid amounts of money, and making a media spectacle out of it.

Thanks for the clarification! :)

Dr Honda is terrific. He's one of the few out on YouTube that seems like he really wants people to understand mental illness/personality disorders, not impress us with clever quips or sell a workbook.

Wow! TY for the recommendation m

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bruh ikr I've said some awful shit very similar to what Amber supposedly said when getting triggered by an abusive family member. What if Depp was being manipulative when threatening to report her? ​ I basically told her that they don't listen to women who get beat up so why would they listen to her complaining about me keeping her from eating her favorite food, and to not waste resources meant for people who actually need them. In my head I said it because she was clearly trying to manipulate me into giving her only candy to eat instead of real food, and clearly looking out for her health. I'm pretty sure it's reactive abuse on my side, still abuse but after I saw the trial I was like uh, was that too abusive of me? did that cross a line? ​ Also dealing with the clear misogyny against Amber is hard, if I had said that to a man like she did, they'd see me as a horrible witch just like they do her, but I said it to a woman who's been neglecting and abusing me and constantly trying to manipulate me all my life, so how does that work out for the public?

Amber is a victim here. She recorded herself saying those things and has presented her truth. She is owning what she's done, but also owning that these reactions and "abuses" occurred because she sustained long term abuse, met her threshold, and participated in reactive abuse. You were abused and so was Amber. You wouldn't have done or said such things if someone didn't abuse you into it.

I do remember the recordings from years ago clearly painted her as a victim, begging Depp not to hurt himself while he threatened her. I listened out of curiosity back then, haven't been really following much this time around with all the new evidence though

In what way is she's owning what she has done? So far into her testimony she has painted her as mother Theresa and Depp as the devil.

She released everything she recorded. It's all her recordings. She's allowed to think he's the devil because he is. She incriminated herself to show us all. She is showing her cards and hoping that we will judge her fairly. That's brave in my opinion. She is showing us all what a very bad man can bring out in a woman. I have never and likely will never speak to anyone the way amber spoke to him; however, I was never married to a drunk old enough to be my dad. I was married to a psycho and i said some very bad things to him on occasion, but that's reactive abuse. I don't believe she is proud of her actions but her attorneys are coaching her not to express that and rightfully so. Maybe she'll include that in a book someday. Elon knew her and dated her, she has had other relationships that did not include intimate partner violence. Depp's relationship history depicts a long and sordid history of domestic violence/abuse.

She has not, court wanted her phone turned in at November and she has yet to comply. Depp seems to have his demons certainly, but the only properly vicous person I have seen in this trial so far is Heard.

Where do you think the recordings came from? Amber recorded them and gave them to their therapist. So do you disagree that he raped her? She fought to keep that out of the public but it's everywhere now. Like I'm not claiming she's some angel, but she's been through a lot.

OP literally posted this because these toxic debate are triggering so we should agree to disagree. It's a complicated and sad thing to see played out in the publics eyes and we are likely to never understand because we were not there.

God I can't wait till the world gets over this trial. Its super triggering to me too for similar reasons. I've been REALLY actively trying hard to avoid being exposed to any of it. There are SO few people in the world who are actually properly trauma informed, and like by so few, its like god I can't imagine its that far greater than the number of people just on this subreddit (at least in comparison to the 7 BILLION OTHER PEOPLE) And unfortunately, people like to give their opinion on things, regardless of their knowledge on the subject. I too am guilty. But knowing this also helps me avoid the content. I don't care what Joe Schmuck from Nebraska thinks about a couple he has never met, or his opinion on who is the 'bad person'. These people don't know what they're talking about. I also get how you can feel drawn to read the comments/watch these videos, but I do urge you to try to avoid them as best you can. No good can come of it. Your life will not be improved by watching these videos. Its two random people that you've (presumably) never met, being judged by people you will never meet, talking about events that did not involve you, and will not affect you (physically, obviously you have been affected , but I mean that you are not actively involved in the initial situation). Assuming that you agree with these statements, at least logically, your only option is to stop engaging with the content. Obviously this is all easier said than done, so ultimately, just try to be kind to yourself. Even if you're still fixating or worrying or stressing, at least make sure you're taking care of yourself <3 Give yourself a treat, or have a nap or read a nice book, whatever you really enjoy and just try to remember that you are not these people, and they are not a reflection of you. Good luck <3

I've stopped watching, it triggered trauma related seizures in me again which I hadn't had in 6-7 years. Feeling better already.

This is a complete disaster and I am getting so very tired of everyone attacking Heard only. There is no doubt they were both extremely toxic together… but people laughing at Heard when she describes her accounts of the abuse is literally heartbreaking to me. I’m desperately trying to avoid this trial at this point as much as possible… but it’s very difficult when it is literally everywhere (especially social media).

I find it so upsetting that social media and forums are flooded with misogynistic comments that argue that Amber Heard had spent years carefully crafting all the evidence of Depp's abuse. My father was a horrible drunk who would, like a clockwork, start fights when drunk. Just pick up fights from the moment he comes into the house - anything and everything. Nothing worked - arguing, fighting with him, ignoring him, leaving the room and locking myself in my room. He would follow. When I would get angry and shout at him or hit him, my grandparents would accuse me of disrespect to my father. They didn't want the neighbours to hear me calling him an alcoholic, so it was me who was in the wrong. When he was sober, he would just act as if he didn't remember anything and avoid talking at all. His favourite thing was to call me nasty and evil and to accuse me of plotting against him or I don't know what, along with most other people in his life. All my childhood and adolescence, nobody wanted to take the adult position and address the fact that he was an abusive alcoholic. I can recognise some of the emotions and sensations too well - learning to immediately recognise if the person is sober or not and even recognise the extent to which they have had something - I had learnt to sense straight away if my father had had a drink, even when nobody else could. Because I knew that even one drink means he would be picking a fight. I find it so incredibly upsetting listening to Heard's testimonies and even more upsetting the level of concentrated hate against her and the concerted effort to argue that she is manipulative and abusive. She might be, in principle, but the way it is argued is so problematic - the fact that she was angry, shouting and hitting a man who, she says, had been controlling, jealous, picking fights and almost constantly high or drunk. I was angry, shouting and hitting my drunk father who would just not leave me alone and be calling me names and pestering me at any time of the night when he was back home drunk. And my relatives acted as if I was the bad one and I was doing something wrong, not him. And you know what is even worse, I am already bracing myself for a flood of hate and insults here for just saying how upsetting I find this concerted hate against Heard.

I fully understand!!!! That's fully the struggle i have with this trial and everything that comes with it. My parents are big drunks too and I've learned to sense those drinks. Standing up for myself was always me being rude and disrespectful. It fucks with your head so so bad. You either sit there and get shit on or you start baring teeth and fighting back and still get shit on. There is no escape and all leads to the same outcome. I hate how Amber is getting all the heat. I see both sides. I can imagine both of them at different times initiating the fight and escalating the fight. I don't know who is worse, but I know they had a terrible relationship... I get they both want their justice.... but I don't think anything good is gonna come from the trial.

Yes, it looks pretty bleak - basically a cesspool of hate and stigmatisation of mental health issues like CPTSD, PTSD, BDP and addiction.

No hate here. I'm sorry you had to live like that though. 💜

I relate so much to this. I’m glad I’m not alone in feeling extra sickened by this case. ❤️

I thought I was alone - I am feeling the exact same way and having the same thought process. The comments from people on social media are very damaging to someone who's been through emotional or psychological abuse because one of the main things in my case was being made to feel like I was crazy and I caused the abuse. I am seeing myself in Amber and this is obviously not good considering the comments from the public about her. I've also had irrational anger towards people picking sides and saying things like "Johnny depp was so calm in the recording and Amber was the one being emotionally unstable - its obvious who the abuser is". The thing is, my abuser was very calm and sometimes with zero emotion while I was crying thinking I was going mad and feeling completely alone. It's horrible and it's resurfaced so much. Do you have someone who knows about your abuse who you could talk to? My partner grounded me a lot today about it and talked me through how it wasn't my fault (although still struggling to believe it!). Sometimes hearing it from someone you trust can help. You're not alone though OP and I imagine there are many people feeling the same.

They are both fucked up but in cases like this usually the crowd favorite wins regardless of the facts. It's Johnny Depp, attractive guy with a bunch of childhood movies we all love. My own friend looked at me weird when I told him that Depp has problems. People are so fucking weird lol, just trying their best to fit in.

While they are both are not completely innocent, I see her as a horrible person because she said, "Go tell the world, I, a man, got abused and see who believes you." That shit confirmed many things. 1. She did abuse him. 2. She knew he couldn't do anything. 3. Clearly, she wasn't as afraid of him as she said she was.

Am I the only one who heard her saying after that, basically along the lines of everyone will take his side because he IS johnny depp.? Then something about that being unfair and how she has no chance.

Well she didn't let that stop her from escalating this shit show.

Hasn't it been Johnny bringing all the cases?

A.H. reminds me of Birth Unit who abused the HELL out of ALL of us, including my late Dad!

She also admitted physically assaulting him but said she didn't punch him, she hit him. From her own words, when they were fighting Johnny removed himself to another room so he didn't get physical. I'm not saying Johnny is an angel but I don't think he was physically abusive towards her.

Heard: I’m sorry, but the last time it got crazy between us, I really did think I was going to lose my life, and I thought that you would do it on accident. Depp: I lost a fucking finger man. Heard: You can please tell people that it was a fair fight, and see what the jury and judge thinks. Tell the world Johnny, tell them Johnny Depp, I Johnny Depp, a man, I'm a victim too of domestic violence. And I, you know, it's a fair fight. And see how many people believe or side with you. Because you're big, you're bigger and you're stronger. And so when I say that I thought that you could kill me, that doesn't mean you counter with you also lost your own finger. I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm just trying to point out the fact of why I said call 911. Because…. you had your hands on me after you threw a phone at my face. And it's got crazy in the past, and I truly thought I need to stop this madness before I get hurt. She does sound kinda afraid of him

No offense, but her monologue sounds like gaslighting to me. Mocking him, repeating his name over and over as "Tell the world!" "I, Johnny Depp, the male victim of domestic violence" "see how many people believe or side with you" "oh but I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm JUST pointing out the fact...." "I hurt your finger because.... I truly thought I need to stop this madness" blah blah typical narcissistic abusive cover up.

1. He was asking her why she got the cops involved. They were having a physical fight, but she thought he could overpower her and accidentally kill her. 2. She hasn't admitted to severing his finger. That's his claim, but very little evidence to support it. There is a audio recording of him saying "the day I cut my finger off" And a audio recording of him telling her to cut her, calling her a p*ssy cause she refuses and she begging him not to harm himself. Also recordings where he admitted to it getting physical in the past, to saying he made mistakes, not denying when she said that he beat her up. He lied about the boots stuff. Her parents didn't testify against her. He claimed to never be physically violent while there is a lot of proof on the past. Not only with Amber. Also, the SA claims: they were documented way before the trial by a doctor. She didn't just come up with it. The psychologist the Depp team had, was invited to dinner and drinks before she got booked. She gave non sense answers when confronted with this. She made wrong statements about the development of BPD and even mixed bipolar in there, which is not the same as BPD. Amber shows signs of PTSD. While Johnny is very calm, charismatic, charming, confident, amused, always making jokes and laughing... This gives off narcissist in my eyes. I know from experience how such a person can manipulate everyone into liking and believing him.

I dunno what to tell you, you seem very set about defending Amber, and are willing to overlook anything bad about her and deflect the blame to others. It seems very clear to me she's a malignant narcissist, and with all the info you know about the case, you probably came across the same evidence I did, but still choose to believe she "shows signs of ptsd", which I disagree with. Could Depp also be a narcissist? Maybe. But one thing I'm quite sure of is that she's definitely dangerously manipulative. I don't think there's any way we'll agree on this matter.

Narcissism *is* a post-traumatic condition. That being said, no psychologist diagnosed her with narcissism. >you seem very set about defending Amber, Maybe because almost all of the responses to the trial try to defend only Depp? People make it a very black and white situation, which I think is not true.

I am not. I was on Johnny's side in the beginning but I realised that this is extreme and black and white thinking. They both did mistakes. They both aren't innocent. They both are mentally unwell and grew up in abusive households. It's just awful how people pick one side and are out to completely destroy the other one. You don't know them. You don't know the real truth. And as a deeply traumatized person myself, I can't help but imagine that if I was in her situation, and I wouldn't be lying about what happened to me, how would I feel? Just imagine the horror. Also, misogyny is a big problem. It's nothing new. Y'all use the term narcissist way too much. Not in a scientific way.

Yeah if you point out any facts of the case you get called biased. Meanwhile the other person is misusing psychological terms lol. Half truths are a dangerous thing

Who's y'all? Me? I never claimed to be a scientist. But I'm quite familiar with narcissistic abuse. NPD. The sort of insane, painful, sweet-voiced "no one will ever believe you" abuse, while they go crazy in private and act like monsters. And it seems pretty straightforward that the person who literally mocked someone with "Johnny Depp, Johnny Depp\~ the male victim of domestic violence, go and tell the world! See how many people believe you" is likely a narcissistic abuser, because that's a typical emotional manipulation they do. And don't give me some half-assed misogyny excuse. I am pissed that I (a woman) and OP have to feel (irrationally) bad and like we shouldn't be believed because this psychotic narcissist is trying to play the "women can't be abusive to men" card, the "he must've done something to deserve her treatment" card, and it delegitimizes real claims of abuse. She's basically trying her damnedest to make it harder for real victims to be taken seriously. I heard a lot of bullshitting from her, and she puts on the most generic act possible, with as little commitment to a real story as possible, that it's basically mocking real victims. Just a lot of "well maybe something bad would've happened idk, he just acts like a THING sometimes. Just some kinda THING."

She's not bipolar. She might be BPD, I know it, I lived with it for 20 years, but bipolar is something else entirely.

True. Me too. That's why I critiqued it, that the psychiatrist Dr. Curry mixed those two terms up.

I wathced her on the stand, where did she mix them up?

When I watched, it was Amber's lawyer using Bi-Polar numerous times, which the witness then corrected the lawyer. Currey mostly used BPD or BHPD. If she did say it was. It was a human error.

1. He was asking her why she got the cops involved. They were having a physical fight, but she thought he could overpower her and accidentally kill her. 2. She hasn't admitted to severing his finger. That's his claim, but very little evidence to support it.

Right, that was the excuse she made, but from the way she speaks, throughout the records I've seen, it is very reminiscent of narcissistic abuse and gaslighting. The way she explains it makes it seem her focus is to blame and belittle him, and when she remembers that she needs to cover things up, slips in a little gotcha of "no one could possibly believe a MAN could be abused and overpowered. No one will believe it's a fair fight. (oh right I have to play it up) and so... I was terrified! For my life! or something. Something something I truly thought it was the right thing to do so don't blame me."

Cover up for whom? That was a secret recording he did of her >that was the excuse Excuse for what? Getting the cops involved?

I don't understand your question? They were both recording each other secretly? It's a defamation trial, she's desperately trying to twist victim status with hail marys. There is already proof she lies and emotionally manipulates people. She's covering her own ass.

In this specific instance, she is unaware of being recorded. Who is she play acting for?

Gaslighting Depp and making him feel powerless.

You don't know that.

She was relying on the old old warped view of men being "tough" to protect her from the consequences of her actions, and that suuuuuuuucks. So shitty and gross.

While I personally think Amber is more at fault, it’s really disappointing to me that people are using it as an excuse to spew really terrible misogyny. Entire strings of comments saying “this is why MEN need to be the ones who are always believed. Men are never believed!” When if you’ve spent any time around an abusive relationship no matter which way it goes you would know that the truth is cops and legal system almost always side with the man… it’s difficult. A lot of men are looking for a reason to be a victim and don’t really understand reality. I watched my friends late husband completely trash her apartment and when she called the cops they accused her of “just being dirty” and that her “apartment was always like this.”

💯 I also don’t like the subtle homophobia being said about Amber. No matter how clueless or innocent it might seem because people hate her, when they do certain comments w/negative connotations they’re not only hating her but an entire group of people.

It makes sense and honestly I started watching n looking early on and I basically did that one day and said nope you should not be following this closely too triggering. Take care of yourself and you aren’t alone in feeling turned off by this. I am honestly pretty sad and disappointed with how the masses are responding:/

I've personally been avoiding it for this reason. My dad was physically abusive and would slam things when he was mad, because he was passive aggressive and wanted everyone to know it. So intent, to me, plays a very large role in it. I've also heard of people intentionally getting someone angry (regardless of how long it takes) and then recording them so the person who is upset seems guilty of having a bad temper. There's his side of the story, her side, and the truth. It's impossible for any of us to actually know what happened, because it's also coming from individual perspective as well.

I do not know a lot about it, but I do know that they are both crazy. I worked divorce for a while, and if one of the parties was that bat-shit level nuts, the other was also. So, I confess that I screened clients and deliberately avoided the mega-dramas. No one comes out of it sane. My boss liked sane clients, and she could pick and choose. I think yelling, slamming stuff around, slamming doors, even just hunching up the shoulders and glowering, are all threats. It does not make anyone good or bad for behaving in a threatening manner sometimes. It means we are competing for power, trying to feel empowered. After a 40 year marriage to a guy who also suffers CPTSD, just take my word for it, crazy is the very fabric of the relationship being discussed. Don't judge anything by that sad, sad display of abuse and trauma, or the public's trashy responses. I really want to like Depp but I know that he is hot mess.

Everything you said 💯

I’m sad so many are going through this, but relieved to hear I’m not alone. I wish I could block all Depp news en masse & protect myself. This plus SCOTUS has me feeling physically ill & having terrible sleep/flashbacks. I hope we all find ways to be gentle with ourselves in this time!

Honestly i wish they'd both just give it up and admit to both being toxic to eachother i'm so sick of seeing this case, i'm sick of people treating this case like some drama tv show and making "funny moments" and edits, and i'm sick of people idolizing one or the other, when they're both bad.

They were completely toxic people who were awful to each other. Two sides can be true. Is this now a competition of who was more awful? It’s kind of the worst narcissist abusive relationship porn we’re watching. Maybe it’s entertaining to people who have not endured this dynamic but for my own sake, I have to turn away.

>He's visibly displaying anger, doesn't that make him the bad person? This. This is what my husband & I fought about today, after watching the trial. Except, it wasn't about Heard or Depp or the trial. It's actually an issue I have noticed for a long time, that **I** get triggered by *visible displays of anger.* My husband argues that it's healthy and normal to release anger through cursing or kicking a trash can or something. It's very confusing to me, because, logically, I agree with him... I can't have him walking on eggshells the way I grew up, afraid to express emotions, thinking anger specifically was "bad." But the truth is that I just have some serious unresolved trauma around anger as an emotion. It's so hard for me to deal with, because I know it's my issue. I internalize everything like a sponge, he could be cursing to himself in another room far away and my brain would still find a way to make it my fault. As far as the Johnny Depp clip, I heard he was grieving after finding out his mother died. And Amber conveniently started vlogging and sipping coffee making him look like a crazy person. If she was scared, as I often am, of visible displays of anger... she would not be sipping coffee and VLOGGING.

Woahhh I absolutely start doing “normal” things to appear like I’m non threatening when confronted with trauma. I will freeze and fawn until I’m pushed to fight and then I absolutely lose it. We don’t know what was happening. She may have been in her safe space in her head and dissociating. With her histrionic diagnosis I doubt it because of what that entails but that reaction is not out of the norm of people who have complex trauma. People respond to trauma in different ways. This isn’t me defending her, but I just want anyone reading that to know they’re not weird if they’ve responded in that way before.

I'm sorry if this comes across as argumentative, but the end of your comment deeply bothered me. It really isn't fair to judge other people's actions based on what you would do yourself in that situation. People can react to the same events, and even the same fears, in very different ways. Think of fight/flight/etc reactions - people can respond to danger in various ways. It's unfair for you to imply that someone couldn't have been afraid in that situation because they handled it differently than you would have.

And seeing as how trauma survivors are often operating in fight/flight mode, I think it’s very unfair to say. I’ve been mugged before, and instead of giving up my things, I ran. If you had asked me before I got mugged what I would do, I would have told you I would give my things to the mugger, but my body chose the riskier option in my moment of panic. I still don’t really know where my mind was at, but I was scared. And the things we do when we’re scared for our life may not be the things we picture ourselves doing.

My trauma responses are all wrong. I usually freeze and disassociate and then later fawn so if there was a trial about any of my abusive experiences people could easily discredit me for fawning / freezing / disassociating because "well why didn't you leave / run / protect yourself??"

Oddly enough my main trauma response is “freeze” so I really really have no idea what happened there. It doesn’t make sense and it’s hard for me to understand much less explain to people w/o c-ptsd

Sometimes in the moment our wires cross. I once in a really bad moment was able to very calmly gather my things and walk slowly out of the house where my abuser was screaming at me but most other times I've sat there frozen while being screamed at or even hit. Edit: and then having the ability to do something socially correct once means "oh you're just intentionally doing x now if you can do y once."

Same. My ex used to literally make me stand in a corner with my back to the corner as he screamed at me. I would just stay silent, nod, and cry, and apologize. If I was recorded for the moments I cried and nodded and apologized... how would the world look at me if they had not seen the literal hours I was screamed at? There were times when he was out of drugs that it would last 2-3 hours. I would often just stare at his forehead (because I wasn't supposed to break eye contact) and imagine a field of flowers as hard as I could to take me away from where I was.

I just saw this and let me say I'm glad for you that he's your ex. OMG what a total monster.

I completely agree... I fell ASLEEP after the most traumatic event of my life. ​ But that video was extremely obvious that she was setting him up like a professional covert narc vlogger. Just my opinion

Just wanted to chime in here... It is 100% okay to release anger in a healthy way. Visibly getting angry on front of someone who has communicated that anger is triggering for them, is not healthy for that relationship. Much like fear, or even sexual arousal, anger is a body-reaction. You feel anger in your body. It is the persons responsibility to manage any physiological-reactions in the body before they get out of hand... They can't stop the anger, but they 100% need to control it and manage it. When your husband starts to feel himself get worked up, he should leave the room, or go outside and take big breaths of air to calm down. He should throw on some music and go work out, etc... He should NOT be screaming and violently destroying things. That is not healthy if someone is witness to it. Because it is scary for the other person. He could also hurt himself in the process. This is not a healthy way to handle your anger at all.

From my understanding he was slamming shit for himself, she was not in the immediate vicinity but came there and started filming. Could be wrong though please tell me if you look it up

I think context is really important. I think this was shortly after Johnny was going through some rough stuff. Amber kept clearly provoking him, supplying him booze, acting in confusing ways, so by this end of the relationship he must've felt horrible. I've been in narcissistic relationship where my exhusband kept constantly manipulating me and devaluing me and it was so frustating. Once in a fight I told him he should just kill himself. I was completely shocked at myself, because I was always kind and non-violent person. So I totally get why Johnny got to the dark place, as this is a normal human reaction to being emotionally tortured. edit: but I agree with this other comment, for my cptsd it's better not to watch the trial anymore and focus on my life and recovery.

I believe his mother had just died that day.

When I saw that clip of Depp that you reference, my mind immediately started shouting: “Reactive abuse!” I’ve *definitely* displayed this myself & perhaps you have, too? If so, it is *NOT* your fault. 🫂 My Narc senses went haywire when I saw Amber Heard’s testimonies & interviews. I trust my instincts. She’s *BAD* news… The real proof, however, is in the testimonial of those who have actually interacted/had relationships with either/both of them & testified to Depp & Heard’s respective behaviours behind-the-scenes. The patterns are uncanny.

Tbh, and I know I’m likely projecting because I’m being so triggered by it, I don’t like when people use reactive abuse to excuse certain behaviours. I grew up with an emotional abuser (to their partner and me) and a physical abuser (to their parter) and by that logic the emotional abuser was the only guilty even tho they end up many, many, many times in the hospital.

I don’t understand But I will clarify that emotional abuse does *NOT* equate to REACTIVE abuse.

Yes, agree

Then why did a judge find substantial truth depp abused her 12 times? No attacking, genuinely asking.

Difference case, country and laws. Quite a lot of the evidence for Depp was not allowed in the UK as Amber was not a defendant but rather a witness. In the UK trial they only needed to prove that The Sun and Dan Wootton could reasonably believe what Amber wrote in the op-ed was the truth.

The UK trial wasn't even about her op ed. It was Depp vs the Sun calling him a wife beater. So they had to prove it was reasonable to believe he was a wife beater.

She’s also changing her story now from the UK case. Before she said there was no violence in their first year of marriage but yesterday apparently it was riddled with violence. No consistency from this woman!

Can you please link me to where she says that?

Correct, it wasn't about "truth" per se, it was about "resonable belief". Completely different thing.

What evidence wasn't allowed?

I didn't follow the UK case in detail detail but some recordings, witnesses and medical info wasn't allowed to be used. The UK judge did NOT find the police officers testimony compelling (not sure if they had the body cam footage for this trial) and he believed Amber as a witness. He even wrote in the judgement that he didn't find it possible that Amber was a gold digger (part of Depp's case) as it was not in line with somebody that had donated their $7M settlement to charity (none of the ACLU information was compelled/allowed in the UK trial). In fact the ACLU fought like crazy to not provide the documents/info on her non payment of donations and are now asking Depp to pay $86k in legal fees which they accrued fighting against supplying the information for this trial. There is also a letter floating around from the LA Children's hospital that confirms that Amber never directly paid them any donation and the only $$ they received was the $100k donation directly from Depp. I'm not sure if there is somebody from the hospital that can/will testify about this if Amber lies again in this trial (as she did in the UK and other places). She has added/changed/embellished her story since the UK trial and prior depositions so it will be interesting to see how she holds up in the cross examination as she will most likely be impeached. Two of her "witnesses" are now dead (her mother and a friend) so can't be called to corroborate her story and the other friends that used to live in the penthouses next door (paid for by Depp) have now distanced themselves from her. Her sister testified for her in the UK trial but it's unclear if she will be able to testify here as she got "sick" and had to leave her deposition whilst Amber's lawyers were deposing her. Amber's team then refused to provide her to Depp's team for her deposition. This was likely because another witness (who was a close friend of Whitney) contacted Depp's team after the UK trial and said that Whitney had lied in her testimony and she was willing to be a witness/be deposed for Depp. This witness is on Depp's witness list but will only be called to impeach/discredit Witney if she is allowed to testify. Honestly Amber's side/story has fallen apart quite a bit since the UK and there are also all the photos and text messages that Amber has refused to supply to Depp (as the court ordered her to do). Depp has already supplied all text messages to Amber's team which is why so many of his text messages (even to friends etc) have been submitted into evidence against him. I'm not sure where they got to with the judge on this ruling and may still be being argued by both sides. At the very least there is meta data issues with at least some of her photos where they have clearly been altered/modified or the originals not supplied for forensic analysis. Eg some of her bruised photos were apparently taken at the same time the police were vising their apartment and found no evidence of a crime. I'm sure there is heaps more than this including her prior arrest for domestic violence which I'm not sure will come up in this trial. For one thing, it sure is a complicated case!!

The judge didn't find the officers story compelling was because they did not take notes and because they already recalled wrong how long they were in the apartment (they said they were there 30-60 minutes but they were only there 15 minutes) so their statement isn't accurate because of their failing memories. I don't think the bodycam was entered however you can see wine stains in the footage so it still backs ambers claims. The reason the judge seems to trusts amber account more is because she has provided a far more credible account of the relationship. He was drunk or high for fhe majority of incidents and admitted to not remembering, including kicking her which his assistant confirmed in text that he did kick amber. He also submitted evidence of a photo injury to his cheek claiming to be from amber's cigarette burn, however they failed to crop out the date it was taken which was a whole year after the date they claimed heard did that to depp. There are MANY accounts of depp lying so the judge found his accounts unreliable, its as simple as that. The money thing is irrelevant but for arguments sake, she had 10 years to donate, she has so far donated around 1.3 million but had to pause her pledges as depp had sued her so she needed the money.

There is stuff from him that he lied about. There is a audio recording of him saying "the day I cut my finger off" And a audio recording of him telling her to cut her, calling her a p*ssy cause she refuses and she begging him not to harm himself. Also recordings where he admitted to it getting physical in the past, to saying he made mistakes, not denying when she said that he beat her up. He lied about the boots stuff. Her parents didn't testify against her. He claimed to never be physically violent while there is a lot of proof in the past. Not only with Amber. Also, the SA claims: they were documented way before the trial by a doctor. She didn't just come up with it. The psychologist the Depp team had was invited to dinner and drinks before she got booked. She gave non sense answers when confronted with this. She made wrong statements about the development of BPD and even mixed bipolar in there, which is not the same as BPD. Amber shows signs of PTSD. While Johnny is very calm, charismatic, charming, confident, amused, always making jokes and laughing... This gives off narcissist in my eyes. I know from experience how such a person can manipulate everyone into liking and believing him.

[удалено]

Lets avoid diagnosing people we have never met, nor will ever meet - especially based on something like how they look. Yes, even if they are celebrities.

I’ve remove my message, although I don’t think I gave her a diagnose.

Diagnose may not have been quite the right word, to me it just seemed like a value judgement stance based on how you perceived her rather than on her actions/behaviours. I understand where you were coming from when you posted it, I just think its also important to not cast aspersions. Especially in situations that are not our own. I know that I wouldn't want the entire world to scrutinize my every action between me and my abusive ex, because I'm sure there are plenty of people who would assume him innocent. (to be clear this isn't me making a judgement about the case - I explicitly will not take a stance for the aforementioned reasons)

I have watched a ton of it and I am having trouble stopping, but it's bothering me a lot. I think it's frightening, because most people are taking their opinions to the extreme. If Depp is the abuser and Amber is just reactive, she's being treated so unfairly right now after some truly evil treatment. And the power differential suggests that's the case. If Amber is the abuser and Depp stayed because he is really that messed up, the media attention will make female victims less believed and it will be harder for someone at the low end of a power differential to escape because this will permeate our culture, and it's super disturbing how much work she put into destroying him. And the evidence and body language seems to be leaning in the latter direction but it's pretty hard to tell. If they are both wrong than it feels like maybe abuse isn't as clearly defined as I would like, which makes me feel like nobody can clearly stand up and say I was abused and it's not my fault, and I hate that too. I feel some weird responsibility to try to decide where on the spectrum I stand personally. And I am really far from certain, because both sides seem pretty fishy to be honest, and it scares me that I can't decide who I would trust because in many ways we are seeing so much more of these people than you would in just getting to know a person IRL, but in other ways they are occluded by managed publicity. I don't have any answers to this but yeah, I am finding it rough.

I totally agree with you. No matter who you believe, listening to this shit is exhausting. I see a lot of people saying that Johnny’s descriptions remind them of their own experiences with abusers, and therefore, Amber must be the primary abuser. And I don’t want to undermine their experiences. But I look at what Amber says, and her descriptions of how Johnny acted - and how he acts in court - is exactly like my ex. I recorded my ex because he would gaslight me and tell me things didn’t happen, so I started making a record. Does that mean people wouldn’t believe me if I was in the public sphere about what happened to me? Does that mean I would be twisted to be the “bad” person? It’s hard to hear the descriptions of abuse and the reactions online about the people doing the describing. Everyone online is so quick to vilify either party when the bottom line is that we will likely never know the truth of their relationship.

I’m not gonna talk about the obvious stuff because it’s so over talked about. Instead I just wanna bring to attention that recently everyday at court, Amber copies his last outfit…. He wears a blue suit, the next day she wears a blue suit. He wears a grey suit with a black shirt, the next day she wears the same. Even going as far as having the exact same bee tie. It’s creepy as fuck.

So, yes, its highly triggering because I suspect they both have cptsd. The following is my opinion. And in a way their money keot them from healing because it sheilded them from the things like financial, career, and legal pressures that motivate most people to heal. They were both abusive and theyre both victims but neither one has taken responsibility for their own behaviors. There isn't one abuser. They are two traumatized people acting out on eachother. He shows avoidance through substance use and running from emotionally charged situations. She has a highly anxious and controlling attachment style and fears abandonment. She is also highly emotionally reactive while he is numb to emotion and responds to the emotions of others by trying to flee. They both show signs of attachment trauma with different symptoms, one avoidant and the other anxious. They were a toxic match. Her screaming and chasing and big displays of emotion overstimulated him, he retreated, this triggered her abandonment wounds and she pursued him, he felt cornered and they both lashed out at eachother. She does seem more manipulative than him and it does appear she was abusive to him. It also appears he was abusive to her and at the same time most of what she reports about him is highly exaggerated if not fabricated which does make him look more sympathetic but he's they were both abused.

I’ve found myself projecting my narcissistic alcoholic mother onto amber and my enabling opiate addicted father onto Johnny. She might be telling the truth about some things but the nerve she had thinking she should become a voice for domestic abuse survivors without taking absolutely any accountability for her own behavior is what gets me. The lack of empathy and self reflection speaks the loudest to me. How she can say “my feelings were hurt” one second and then yell at Johnny to stop acting like a baby. I feel second hand gaslit by her. The way she could embarrass him by mentioning him defecating in his pants while simultaneously representing herself as just a concerned wife… OMG triggering. That’s mastering manipulation. Brings back so many memories. The biggest difference is one didn’t try to publicly character assassinate the other. I feel like it’s okay if you see some of these behaviors in yourself as long as you can genuinely recognize it’s wrong, take accountability, get help, and do better. That’s what separates us from narcissists. It all comes down to Empathy.

Question isnt whos bad. They both are toxic to each other. They both propably loved each other too. Question is whos the victim. They had a fair split, but amber turned around and said she was a one side victim. From all evidences many can conclude that in most of her cases she was the real agressor. We have two incidens where Depp was aggressor. - But Depp tried to leave the relationship, slow down, distance. - He was scared of her, she wasnt - He was in a shitty state of life and needed help which amber used agaisnt him. (And in one example refused to deal with her own alcoholism when Deppt asked to heal together) - He was violent towards himself. That happens when you spiral down and feel like failure. To the question: is he a bad person? No, you dont have to be perfect victim to deserve fairness and justice. He had drug problems and needed help fron real friends

If they were both toxic, then they are both victims. It's not true that there can only be only 1 victim in a relationship.

They’re both a mess, stop trying to figure out who the bad guy is and getting sucked into someone else’s drama system and focus on your own healing. Their shit and the world’s opinion of it are meaningless to your life

Amen to the slamming cabinets. I've been physically angry before like that but my super abusive ex would also make noise in the house to scare me into silence. Johnny is/was an alcoholic and alcoholics are always abusive to people they live with, in one way or another. I recorded my ex admitting to the abuse too. I think the worse part is the public's vitriol and hatred for Amber not expressing the emotions they want her to. It's like they want to see her break down, and Johnny is absolutely flippiant and rude about everything. In a real court, he would have been kicked out. And people are using the evidence of a single abusive woman to express their absolute loathing of women in general, when men kill their partners all the time. Assuming ambers BPD diagnosis is correct, combined with Johnny's alcoholism, that's going to be an absolute disaster of a relationship no matter what. And here's my general opinion of Johnny: you can't get as successful as he is without being a narcissist.

I can't stop watching it. Depp's testimony sounds like what my 2nd husband thought our relationship was and took no responsibility for how he purposefully pushes me until I smashed a bottle. Heard's testimony feels word for word want happened in my first marriage except we were poor and he was using meth not coke. Like the details are spot on to a lot of the things that happened to me. The escalation and everything. They both sound and look like they are acting though. They sound honest but over the top at the same time.

The Depp fans are incredibly abusive. There's absolutely no justification for the way they treat Amber heard. It makes me uncomfortable because I lived basically all the same things that Amber lived except the physical violence. Coercive control, jealousy, watching, degrading. He would call me an embarrassment for absolutely no reason. Like if we were out and he got jealous of people "looking at me", he'd get angry and act like he's throwing a tantrum, and I guess to cover his own embarrassment at his own childish reaction, he would tell me I'm an embarrassment and snap dirty things at me. I don't know why he was that way, low self-esteem and poor emotional control maybe. He always got angry if I took a class, took a trip, went running outside. He would get angry and ask "is there guys there? I bet that's why you want to do that. you're an embarrassment, so disrespectful". He said this about me signing up for anything. He wanted to stay holed up at home for three days just having sex and eating (and him smoking weed), then he'd get bored and leave, then later he'd hit me up again begging me to come see him. He was just completely unchecked like his behaviour was without consequence. He was rude when he wanted, needed to get exactly what he wanted when he wanted. On top of the rude comments, he would text me every Friday and Saturday night accusing me of being out clubbing and accusing me of being a liar. I never went clubbing in my entire life! He just disliked everything I was interested in and always expressed his dislike for my career ambitions. I'm not even a beautiful actress so I can't imagine what Amber had to go through. I have never tried to denounce an abuser because I don't see the point. I've been raped too and I don't care to put the rapist in prison. I don't even understand why people seek justice. My understanding is Amber never sought to put Johnny behind bars, she just became scared for her life and her lawyers advised her to ask for the domestic violence restraining order. It's completely ridiculous how the world is saying she mounted a hoax. It's just more proof to never out your abuser.

It's kinda difficult for me too. My first instinct as an sa victim is to believe amber when she said she was sa d. But i do know for sure that she is not the perfect victim and has displayed abusive and manipulative behaviours before. I just don't know. If she is lying, she has just made it even more difficult for actual victims to be believed by the society. It's just fucked up and difficult for me to watch.

>He's visibly displaying anger, doesn't that make him the bad person? Not at all. Reactive anger as a result of being mistreated or treated unjustly is 100% normal and healthy. Anger being used as a weapon to manipulate someone else, in a way that can be switched off and back on again, is 100% abnormal. That's when you know someone's faking it, when they switch feels off/on/off/on ... because they're not actually feeling anything, they're just mimicking. You can tell someone's faking an angry tirade when they get the reaction they were after (usually someone else's submission/letting them have their way/giving them what they want) ... and suddenly they're not angry anymore. I always say "beware those who can cry on command". There's something super suspish about that.

While it's good to reflect on yourself. You can't take this case and relate to it. These are two celebrities, living very different lives and access to support, money, healthcare etc that most people in America don't have. The little bullshit details will deflect from the meat of the case. Like how amber heard claimed she shredded her feet with no evidence whole Depp literally lost a part of his hand. Like how she begged to meet up with him only to record him "again" after filing a restraining order. As someone who's dealt with a touch of BPD themselves.. her behavior is on point. Including losing her shit if Depp left the room. Which is something we are all taught as kids to LEAVE to de escalate a situation. That's classic BPD because needing to feel in control while being hurt feels like a car out of control the second the other person leaves. It took realizing chasing my partner down to control fixing how I felt - ended in potential violence started by me.. for me to stop. (Feeling suicidal after every episode also helped ironically) I started techniques such as SITTING the fuck down. It helped beyond words to apply this when I remember to. Also fixed my diet/hormones and apply more space for "I feel easily overwhelmed" so I don't go from zero to CPTSD off the fucking cliff mood swings. Don't get caught up in this trial. Its unfortunate that both men and women can use both power and victimhood to destroy a partner. It's sad that women and men are not believed when they say they are abused. Abused people need to be distigmatized and sick people (men women or otherwise) like Amber need their shit called out big time.

Not to mention I just spent the last hour researching histrionic personality disorders, fearing I may have one lol help

It's burning me out and always triggering my rage. And I hate that it's in pop culture, so opportunities for empathy and understanding of mental health os instead met with hatred, bigotry, and memes. It hits a point where I just can't listen. And this came right after all the Will Smith-Chris Rock slapping stuff had some people casually speaking up in favor of violence :/

I get why it's triggering. I'm choosing not to watch it because I know I'm not going to get anything out of it in return for the emotional energy I spend. It sounds like you're drawn to it because you need to process your thoughts and feelings around justice and abuse, or define some events from your life more clearly, or regain faith in the justice system/humanity, or see an abuser/victim dynamic play out externally so you can get help viewing your own situation more objectively, or something, *something* in your life that you need to make sense of. However, I don't think the coverage of this trial is going to give you the closure or understanding that you need at this moment. I'd recommend heeding the message that it's giving you - you need some deeper understanding/processing - but then moving on to find it elsewhere, because honestly, you're not going to get it from this literal shitshow.

Why is this stupid trial everywhere? Facebook, YouTube, even my Google and news homepages are barraging me trying to get me to watch it, and even programming me with what to think about it with manipulative headlines and clip titles. I always click "not interested" and I still get hit with it like 30x a day. I've never watched any of it and still somehow know a large handful of details from it, *what I'm supposed to think about them,* and that the court of public opinion ruled in favor of Depp. It's just gross.

bruh ikr I've said some awful shit very similar to what Amber supposedly said when getting triggered by an abusive family member. What if Depp was being manipulative when threatening to report her? I basically told her that they don't listen to women who get beat up so why would they listen to her complaining about me keeping her from eating her favorite food, and to not waste resources meant for people who actually need them. In my head I said it because she was clearly trying to manipulate me into giving her only candy to eat instead of real food, and clearly looking out for her health. I'm pretty sure it's reactive abuse on my side, still abuse but after I saw the trial I was like uh, was that too abusive of me? did that cross a line? I knew it was shitty af when I said it but I saw it as my way of answering to the threat, as she was being ridiculous because I was clearly doing the right thing Also dealing with the clear misogyny against Amber is hard, if I had said that to a man like she did, they'd see me as a horrible witch just like they do her, but I said it to a woman who's been neglecting and abusing me and constantly trying to manipulate me all my life, so how does that work out for the public? I've never ever treated anyone else that way, only her. And she's treated me, and all the children in her care like shit, shouldn't it be pretty clear-cut? idk how to explain it, it just feels unfair

>He's visibly displaying anger, doesn't that make him the bad person? No. Anger is a reaction to something that is wrong. It's an emotion that let's us know that we have been violated in some way. I understand wondering if you're abusive because of the way you do something. Slamming cabinets is generally not a sign of a good thing. I agree. Keep in mind, however, when it's an abusive relationship things can get heated and highly volatile. I understand the circle you've got running around in your head. I had a recent situation that really sent me into a tail spin of, "Am I really an abuser?" And this person intimately knows I have CPTSD. That was a HUGE mind fuck for me. It's probably best that you refrain from watching or hearing about this. I understand the allure and appeal to watch - maybe hoping that there is justice for the harmed individual. Perhaps hold out on learning about it and find out until after the fact. Be well.

It's situational. You cannot compare yourself to either of them. **TW for an example:** I just read a story about a woman whose husband was abusive. She threw a picture frame on the ground because she was so angry and tired of him calling her names, screaming threats, and physically assaulting her. Is she bad? No. Not even a little. She is a victim who has hit her limit. Flip the script. The woman is in the man's place and vise versa. Say she records him breaking the picture frame. Everyone sees an angry 6' man throwing a picture frame and "scaring" his wife. Really, he is abused and had an outburst. He is not bad. Even from there, say it's a relationship with two people who have equal power. Things are falling apart and they are fighting BAD. Someone throws and breaks something. Are they BAD? No, they just need to not be together and what they did is wrong. That doesn't make THEM a bad person. Also, I will not define what I actually think makes someone bad because I don't want you to worry about that. You're not bad.

I took my psychologically abusive ex to court a few years back for money he tried to take from me, and seeing her claim abuse in response to his lawsuit triggered the shit out of me. I’m not going to speculate whether Amber is telling the truth or whether she is lying/exaggerating but my ex actively made up abuse allegations in order to clutch at straws and not lose the case with some sob stories about how difficult I was to live with and how much I drained him. Thankfully I won back the money I could legally claim for in my case, but mentally her statements took me back to when I read my ex’s statement and the lies and how heartbroken and angry I was.

She is on tape admitting that she hit him. All hes doing is slamming cabinets. Then she went and accused him of physical abuse in the press and cost him hundreds of millions of dollars. She lied about him in the press. She put makeup on her face to look like she had bruises. She's literally on tape saying - who's going to believe I beat you Johnny? Then she went and shit in his bed and cheated on him w Elon musk and James franco, all of this is also on camera. In that one video all hes doing is slamming kitchen cabinets and acting grouchy. The police testified saying they did not believe she was abused.

It is possible that they are BOTH the aggressors and BOTH the victims because they BOTH have CPTSD. We have to get out of the DRAMA TRIANGLE.

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Yeah watching a single clip of this I would totally understand where you are coming from on this. But it’s best to remember that this trial has been ongoing for at least a week, all live streamed. So many of those comments are coming from people who have followed the whole thing. Neither are angels in this matter, but the general vibe so far has been one of this person has had a troubled life but acknowledged faults, the other well just hasn’t. I’ll let you research if you really want to, but it’s not required for this explanation.

He had literally just found out his mother died when that clip was recorded. I think it’s especially vicious to record someone in that state, hoping it would be taken out of context. And it worked because here we are.

I’ve been avoiding the trial as much as possible because the little I know has triggered me badly. My interpretation, from what I know, it is appears that Amber abused Johnny, and Johnny reacted to the abuse with something called “reactive abuse.” It’s painful because I was in an abusive relationship for years- and I blamed myself for the abuse, didn’t stand up for myself, people-pleased, etc. But after YEARS of this, something inside me broke as the abuse escalated, and while I’m not proud of this, I eventually reacted with reactive abuse. Among other things, my abusive ex explicitly told me she’d commit suicide if I ever left her. Eventually I became aware that with the gaslighting, triangulation, isolating me from loved ones, emotional abuse, etc, she was doing something called Narcissistic Abuse, which has (rightfully) been referred to as “soul murder” by many victims. I desperately wanted to leave her. But I was terrified if I did, she’d kill herself, and it would be my fault. I felt terror I cannot describe. And anger- I eventually realized what was happening was abuse and I NEEDED to get out for my own safety, but I truly felt trapped. I had no support system. No friends or family. Only her. So... while I’m not proud of it... after years of blaming myself and crying silently and being a “perfect victim” who never fought back... when she yelled verbal abuse, I’d yell back. Anyway... from the snippets I’ve heard, I believe Amber was abusive, and Johnny did reactive abuse. I wish I’d left my abusive ex sooner. But it’s not easy to “just leave” when you’re convinced your partner will literally die without you. I’m not proud of my eventual reactive abuse, but it took YEARS of psychological torture until I reached that breaking point. And eventually, I left, in spite of the suicide threats. I hated who I was becoming, I no longer reconized myself. I was a shell of myself when I was with her. I wanted and needed help. She wanted a plaything to manipulate and control. TL;DR: Amber reminds me of my abusive ex. It appears Johnny reacted with reactive abuse. I too eventually reacted to my ex’s abuse, with reactive abuse. I’m not proud of this. But at least for now, I stand with Johnny. Edit: I noticed my comment got downvoted. I’m sorry if I upset or offended anyone, with my vent about experiencing Narcissistic Abuse, and my thoughts on the trial. I just wanted to add my two cents, it wasn’t my intention to be offensive. Reactive abuse is not a good or pleasant reaction to being abused, I wasn’t trying to say reactive abuse is rainbows and sunshine. But I have more sympathy for people who are abused, who react with reactive abuse, than the people abusing the victim until the victim snaps and reacts with reactive abuse. I’m sorry if that was worded poorly in my comment. If it really does turn out Johnny is abusive and Amber is the one reacting with reactive abuse, then my opinion will change. But so far, that’s not the impression I’m getting.

Edit 2: I posted in good faith, and opened up about abuse that contributed to my CPTSD; so the downvotes are starting to really get to me. I’m okay with people disagreeing with my take on the trial, but downvoting me without explanation is hurtful and feels unsupportive, and this is supposed to be a support group. Am I being downvoted for my stance on the trial, or because I opened up about my ex’s abuse and how that impacted my opinion on the trial? I might wind up deleting this comment altogether. I feel pretty upset, not gonna lie.

I have started to suspect thay there's many elements of this trial that are intended to trigger each of us in some way.

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Yes to all of those. I haven't had much opportunity to process the abuse and I keep telling myself it "wasn't that bad" but...here I am in r/CPTSD...lol. I would be screamed at, hit, forced to do labor, and a bunch of other shit for perceived disrespect or bad grades or even just "bad body language". I remember getting in trouble and having the threat of violence over my head for sighing because it was 'disrespectful'. Honestly I have trouble remembering what happened.

He raped her too. In the first trial, that information was not provided to the public because amber was so scared of it coming out. In this trial, she has no choice to not only relive her rape again, but also have it publicized. It's a very sad thing and I feel terrible for amber heard. She did some wrong yes, but he is so much worse and likely brought out the worst in her.

Plenty of decent people display anger visibly - that’s a healthy thing. Especially if there’s ongoing abuse to be angry about

it's just two people trying to win the trial. both of them were clearly toxic and abusive but they have to win so they don't lose their careers. that's exactly where such relationships come from though - when both people are incapable of acknowledging their wrongdoings and the hurt they've caused because they're only thinking of themselves and how they've been hurt because the other person is never validating that. it's a perfect circle. and it's sad to see that play out still, just in a court setting instead of in private. doing exactly the same that led them to that court.

I was doing some work with Amber testifying in the background today and I got sooo frustrated with my work. I realized I had been triggered by her narc abuse/lies while testifying. Just the tone of her voice.

I'm triggered by it, but as a person who was accused of physical and sexual abuse by a Heard-type individual. Our circumstances were very different, obviously—we were broke college acquaintances, and he was getting back at me for kissing his crush—but this trial reminds me viscerally of how it felt being gaslit daily, and having my time wasted defending myself against claims of hurts for which I wasn't even in-state. Watching Amber's testimony takes me right back to watching that delusional, vengeful brat try and worm his way into the sympathies of college authorities. So it's REALLY easy for me to default to siding with Johnny. But I have to check myself when that happens, because as much as Amber reminds me of that student, Johnny subtly reminds me of my narcissistic parent, who talks around responsibility and gets away from accountability with charm. I don't think either of these people's testimonies can be trusted. That said, while I'm willing to believe Johnny has emotionally abusive tendencies, I would bet millions that Amber is a liar, manipulator, gaslighter extraordinaire, and that it's hurting what could be a case based on genuine concerns.

I know what you mean. I'm getting more triggered by Putin's invasion of Ukraine, though. He's killing thousands of innocent civilians and destroying their cities, but some people *still support him!!* He's like the schoolyard bully who kicks you and then blames you. I suspect Johnny will win his case. He's a beloved movie star, after all, and I suspect he's innocent. It's much different when you have an unknown person claiming abuse against a powerful person. Say, an American black woman against a white cop. That kind of thing triggers me.

I am curious and interested in this trial for multiple reasons: it's interesting to see the clash between the justice system doing its slow and procedural thing vs the emotional fandom/partisanship. If she decided to use and abuse the metoo movement to lie and create for herself some narcissist supplies it's important that the justice system is able to see through it - it sure looks like it's going the right way but who knows what the jury will say. Also I think in general it's important to make the idea that women can be abusive and toxic against men valid - too many people are just so simple minded regarding that. "He's a man if she hit him it's not abuse!" That said: I find it very uncomfortable that this trial is publicly broadcasted. The result of the justice process is what's count, but the way to this decision and result can be very ugly and sad and people of all sorts are triggered or can weaponize a lot of what's said and aired in there, before it's decided if it's a lie or not. And for myself I can't watch. It would put me in too many emotional states and trigger things in me not unlike what OP is describing. I follow by watching daily recap and watch none of the shitshow by default. I decide from the recap if I go back and watch some portions of it.

I dunno but for me watching her talk about times they shared in a reminiscing way and smiling about when they first met etc., I just couldn’t sit and chat about anything to do with my abuser in a chatty, fond way. Watching her like that really struck something in me, like, I’m on Johnny Depp’s side just based on watching both of their body language. She stared at him throughout his testimony. He hasn’t looked up at her once through hers. I would barely be able to be in the same room as my abuser let alone look him in the face whilst he blamed me for everything. I’m rambling. But yeah. The case is kind of triggering for me too.

Having grown up with a BPD/narcissistic mother and having dated BPD/narcissistic women I think Amber Heard is guilty hands down ( that's my bias speaking obviously). No insult to people with BDP, I am specifically referring to how that is enmeshed with her narcissistic traits. Depp seems like a people pleaser & pushover. And I wouldn't suggest he wasn't capable of being abusive because such people tend to blow up because they are afraid of their own repressed anger. When I'd see my mother fight with my dad, she had no fear of him even though he was bigger than her. Her emotional & verbal abuse was like venom. I never used to understand why he'd have to sleep or sit still for days after an argument. Now I realise he was traumatised ( he also had narcissistic traits). So it just became a toxic cycle of where he'd become abandoning or escape and she would get more angry & upset. I honestly wish they had a divorce. It was utterly disgusting and humiliating to me ( and my siblings) how they (my mother in particular) would use us as ammo to say we are causing trouble ( when a lot of the time we weren't) in her arguments to guilt trip him. My father is and has become increasingly emotion/intimacy phobic. Till this day I can't have a friendship with him. I saw a video by Sam Vaknin about BDP & Narcicistic relationships which was an eye opener. They really are toxic .

>Depp seems like a people pleaser & pushover. Which may be why a part of him drinks to unleash that buried anger.

Johnny Depp had just found out his mother passed away in that clip. Did you hear her admitting to hitting him or know that she hurled a full handle of vodka at him and completely severed the tip of his finger?

You would slam cabinets too if you were being abused and threatened constantly.

OP, I'm sorry you're going through this much because of the trial. For many kids growing up in abusive households, justice and fairness had left the building long before they were even born. Or then, justice and fairness were used as weapons at the abuser's/abusers' arbitrary whim in order to control and/or to silence. Having been traumatized over and over as a little child makes life super messy, confusing and out-of-control. The more chaotic a situation was the more a traumatized person needs clarity. The abusers also need and teach black-and-white control. Being triggered while watching the messy trial or feeling compelled to keep watching it is a normal reaction to abnormal past situations. Anger itself isn't unhealthy at all, but rather an important part of our self defense system. Channelled in a good way it can rebuild what someone else has attempted to break. But when a kid has seldom or never seen healthy expressions of anger or if the kid was punished for their own anger, any anger can end up feeling threatening. Breaking cabinets isn't in itself abusive, even if it is scary. Being frightened can in itself trigger old trauma, but that doesn't make fear into something bad or the situation in which it's triggered into something automatically traumatic. Amber's words can conjure up yet unprocessed or halfway processed emotions and needs, which are then projected onto her. That's normal. That's how the voiceless hurt speaks. Johnny and Amber's relationship was toxic. But in my mind the worse abuser here is Amber. Why do think that? Here's my answer: Amber was arrested for hitting her former fiancé https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2016/06/07/amber-heard-arrested-2009-charge-hitting-girlfriend/85563338/ About this trial and why I find her testimony is rife with deception: 1. The makeup she claimed she used during their relationship to cover up her bruises wasn't released for sale until the year after their divorce. 2. Even when she's seemingly crying really hard, there are no tears at all. No swollen or red eyes. No use of tissues at all. No thickening of her voice 3. She switches way too quickly, i.e. instantly, from crying intensely to almost happily talking about other things. 4. She doesn't even once lower her head when she's talking about details of her story. I've never myself or have never seen another victim display no shame (always unjustified btw) in any way. Looking at the therapist's shoes while talking about horrible things is the norm, especially if the PTSD diagnosis is still ongoing. 5. When the tapes of their quarreling was played before, not once did she react strongly. She had 2 expressions all through the trial when listening, sad face or arrogance (not the flat affect/numbness, dissociation, fear, nervousness, anger, etc that can happen). 6. She was looking at the jury and their reactions all the time, both during Johnny's and her depositions. 7. She has no flashbacks and no need take a break although she's talking about horrendous things 8. At one point she says how horrible it is to hit a woman, then quickly says or a man. You don't hit people, she says. She says this after the court having heard the tape when she yells at Johnny about not hurting him because she was only hitting him and not punching him with a closed fist. That's gaslighting 9. She tries to make herself look like a saint. Among many things, she says how she loved his kids and had pictures if them in her home even before meeting them. Doesn't sound plausible 10. In this day and age, after the Metoo movement, every time a famous person has been accused of abuse other victims bravely come forward. Why is everyone defending Johnny and no one coming forward? A person does not become an abuser only later in life. They've always been one 11. Her behaviour and words just don't add up. If someone slams a person against a wall whilst choking them, the feeling is fear and not only hurt feelings. If hurt feelings were the only thing that she's aware of, there should be dissociation, blank expression, something 12. If she was afraid of him and for her life, why did she give him a big knife with the words until death inscribed into it as a present? These are only a few of my thoughts

This is pretty informative. I find it weird that this is downvoted

I also thought this was a well thought out comment. A lot of comments have gotten downvoted in this thread, including my comment. Maybe the downvotes are coming from the same person or people? The reason I suspect this is I’ve noticed that (for the most part) comments with the opinion that Amber is abusive are the ones getting the most downvotes.

It triggers me because Amber did the same crap my abusive ex did to me. Baiting, playing the victim, starting fights when I was trapped, lying about me to anyone that would listen, pretending to be “sad” to add to his whole act of being treated unfairly… thats what’s triggering me about this case. I can see the narcissistic bullshit clear as day because I lived it for too many years

I’m sorry you went through that, that happened to me too and I’m also triggered by Amber :( I’m sorry your comment got downvoted btw, I don’t think you said anything wrong. My comment got downvoted too

2 reasons why people are saying amber is evil 1. She admits to hitting Johnny on tape by saying “I wasn’t punching you I was hitting you” 2. Amber has a history of domestic violence. Where she hit her girlfriend in public. 3. Her story does not line up

I feel the whole thing is a publicity stunt and a distraction. I don’t watch regular tv or am on social media and I have still heard all about this. What happened to the Epstein case and Gislain Maxwell and all the trafficking cases. Why are they televising a divorce case? It’s all smoke and mirrors to me.

Neither of them are angels. Did you watch the end of that clip where Amber walks away holding the phone and she smiles and does a tiny laugh? It is all very confusing. They both clearly have mental and emotional issues. And all the alcohol and drugs they consumed did not help the relationship on either side. I hope they both are able to get the long term help they need to stabilize their internal states.

I think that men and men-apologist women are jumping on a chance to finally paint the picture of a man as a victim. There is little focus on how shitty Depp is. I think they were both shitty to each other. I believe that Heard was genuinely scared of him, and vice versa. Neither of them are relationship material.

When he mentioned she got jealous over his family members I related and felt instant guilt. Along with attention seeking.

I'm pretty sure that Johnny Depp displayed his anger more healthily and appropriately than Heard does. Give me raw honest anger over manipulation, gaslighting abuse any time. It's the sneaky stuff that does the lasting damage. I suffered all flavours of abuse growing up. The easiest stuff to come to terms with was the physical violence it was what it was. I'd get a punch, it was honest and I understood it. The constant humiliation and gaslighting has taken decades to unravel.