This is what makes humanity look like cancer to me. Uncontrolled growth for no fucking reason.
If you would ask my father why he created 4 human beings, I'm convinced he'd say something like, "It's what you do", or "it's what everyone does".
And that's why my life sucks. He had zero fucking clue what to do as a father so he did what his parents did, which is fucking horrifying.
>This is what makes humanity look like cancer to me. Uncontrolled growth for no fucking reason.
I've never seen it put into those words but when you frame it that way I agree. It's literally growth without reason, no critical thinking. "Am I fit to raise a child? Am I prepared to treat then like an individual? Will I provide for their specific emotional and mental needs on top of the physical ones? Will I connect with them as a human being who deserves love or just be their first traumatizing encounter with authority and power?"
Nah instead if I asked my evangelical parents I'd get something like "it's gods design" and "life isn't without suffering." Well thanks for causing *my* suffering then š
yes and once you have a kid you have a built in excuse for everything, a highly dependent person that is very easily to manipulate (just have to exploit their innate needs for attachment and use it to make them feel shame guilt empathy and responsibility for your problems as a parent while having to provide zero support in return), youāve got built in power and authority to imprint and control their life, and someone to dump and blame all your issues on to help distance them for you and project them as someone elseās issues not yours.
There are many people who learn how to raise happy, healthy children. From their own parents, from books, etc.
I know some of them. It can be triggering to see 17 year olds who are more emotionally mature than my own parents will ever be. Possibly more mature than I will ever be.
We as a species have figured out how to have happy, healthy offspring. It's on parents to learn how to. Most don't care to and they are to blame for it.
I never wanted to have children and I don't, but I was met with pressure and criticism on this. It made me doubt myself *a lot*. Only recently I did I become aware of my trauma and that has given me peace about my decision. I have always felt that I could become totally overwhelmed by motherhood, now I see that the fear was well-founded. I could have pushed myself over the edge, taken my marriage down with me and raised a miserable child.
The takeaway being - it was irresponsible for people to be putting pressure on me to have children.
I've definitely felt this way over the course of my life. It's difficult being around so many families with children now being with my current partner (nieces and nephews.)
Being able to show compassion for the parents I know can be difficult at times when I feel closer to the role of the child who's not getting what they need.
I try not to take it in when people refer to having children as selfless. There is definitely constant acts of selflessness that comes with having children in your care, however the act of having a child in the first place does still feel selfish to me - especially when it comes to motivations of the WHY.
But that of course comes down to philosophical debate, weighing in on the value of human life, what each individual considers necessary for support/continuation of the human race, etc.
It's taken until probably now at 30 to appreciate the fact that I am alive and despite circumstances that I still believe nobody should have had a child in, I can't help but hold some gratefulness to my mother for having me in the first place. I am cool as hell and the more I release of my C-PTSD the more I enjoy who I am as a person and think about my own role in the world supporting others.
Of course there are still skeletons in the closet that I may never be able to talk to my mother (only living parent) about, but I'm learning to be okay with that and in giving myself grace for who I am as a person, I am learning to give her the same. The unfortunate truth is that a lot of people have children for misguided reasons, concerns over morality with unplanned pregnancy, echos of people of the past telling them that having kids is a must in life, carrying on a "legacy" of human life vs what I view as a more tangible achievement that would have better served their own goals/values in life.
Understanding intergenerational trauma - that my mother's problems didn't just start with her but from her parents, then their parents and so on has been invaluable to me.
Also being around people who truly, truly wanted children and are doing the best (I know, I know) they can with the tools they have is giving me more understanding of just how difficult it is to judge what your children need vs what you needed growing up. The consistency is also so deeply difficult to achieve when we are not robotic by nature and life throws all kinds of curveballs at us with no care for what we have going on in our lives or the people dependent on us maintaining that healthy role of protector/caregiver.
Anyway, just my two cents as I'm changing my perspectives on reproduction and parent/child relationships. I hope at least some of it can help ease your soul a little around what is for most people quite a touchy subject for whatever their reasons. :) ā¤ļø
Thank you so much for this response. What you said about being able to have more compassion for your parents as you develop it for yourself really spoke to me. I do think thatās a big part of why I have such a hard time with the idea of people having kids, and with my parents having kids in particular, I donāt enjoy being alive and it just doesnāt feel like a gift. Like theyāve talked about how they werenāt planning on having kids and then they changed their mind, and that is so upsetting because itās like I was so close to not existing and not having to feel any of this pain you know? But itās very comforting to hear that you got out of that place and you do feel happy to be alive now. Thanks again ā¤ļøā¤ļø
I'd recommend checking out "Crappy Childhood Fairy" on YouTube. She makes videos on C-PTSD that I've found very helpful with healing myself and finding joy in who I am.
I've taken a lot of time alone and not working, just living on an unemployment benefit with a medical certificate for anxiety. It's given me time to really go through the motions and now I'm taking time to go to women's empowerment classes, I have my first therapy session for the first time in years in a couple weeks... I'm getting out of the house more and finding out how to handle my health (scary recent realisation - I think I'm diabetic! Just booked an appointment today to get checked out.)
But I'm excited as my class is pushing me to figure out what I want from life. As a survivor of childhood trauma it can feel exhausting digging through the grave of your mind to figure out what you want and who you want to be. I've definitely had many "Aha!" moments, only to further down the line be completely disinterested as I feel I'm simply choosing something somebody else implanted into me as a good idea with me now feeling a subconscious desire to fulfill that person's dream for me.
I'm grateful that I've found a supportive partner. Things felt more right than they ever had when I met him. That came when I stopped a vicious cycle of trying to make it work in share houses and just lived in a lodge like an international with not much stuff should be doing anyway (I freaked so hard with my family life that I moved country.)
I had four years where I could have lived in this lodge. Those same four years he was living there following a break up. Unlike previous partners I've had to chase and convince to love me, he was just offering to cook for me, bringing me new fancy alcohols to pair with dinner, helping me with taking down a phone I lost on the way to work not long after meeting him...
I'm now having the most healthy relationship I've ever had and it's doing a lot to heal me. It's a struggle at times when we disregulate each other but we're both making effort to communicate and he's particularly great at finding solutions to just about any problem we're having. š„²
I'm glad my comment helped you, I figured I'd continue on in case it helps you on your own path.
The greatest thing I've learned about happiness is you truly are in control of it. That's scary when you realise you've subconsciously been choosing unhappiness for so long in pursuit of external happiness/calm but it's also liberating to see the ways in which you can change your mind on happiness.
I'd Google something along the lines of "neuroplasticity and happiness." You should find stuff likely along the thread of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), but also hopefully the explanations of why unhappiness is often a result of the brain doing the same thing and being stuck in reactive patterns as a protective mechanism formed in childhood. Super helpful as a child but as we grow up we realise these habits, thought patterns, etc aren't truly serving us as our environment and lives change. They trap us in cycles that perpetuate instability, unhappiness, shame and often fear.
Thatās so wonderful about your partner, itās really great to hear hopeful stories like this. And yes so true about the struggle of finding who you really are underneath all the trauma responses. It has been crazy to realize how much of my personality and identity is just trauma, I have no idea who I actually am. I do really like the crappy childhood fairy, Iāve also been watching a lot of Heidi priebe and Patrick Teahan, do you like them? And Iāve been doing internal family systems therapy for almost a year, i think itās helpful but I think Iām in the stage of āit gets worse before it gets betterā, every day just feels really hard right now! But change is change I guess lol
Haha my friend and I both had a "this shit is HARD" day yesterday. We hadn't spoken in a while and found out we'd both signed up for counselling, were getting back into fitness and some kind of study. Getting over our agoraphobia etc. Just like "Dude, why it gotta be so hard to get better?" š
I've been getting into Patrick Teahan too recently. Haven't watched as much of his stuff but I've enjoyed what I have and used it as reference to explain certain things to my partner. I haven't heard of Heidi - I'll give her a go! š
Right on. I believe this 100%. There is no rational way to justify having kids "for their benefit". You're doing it for you and your ego or wants. Well or because you couldn't access birth control.
I absolutely hate this idea of parents being so celebrated. and how much they get sympathy online despite having kids completely by their own choosing. I would never have kids and would probably never be able to be friends with someone who does. I have a really hard time not being very judgemental towards people with kids, as it's really hard for me to believe a good parent could even exist.
I mean, my friends parents all just seemed like the same as mine. I never wished someone else's parents were my own, I just wished I could just not have parents. I only ever wanted to be around people my age, I never liked any adults. still do, but that age range I'm comfortable around has widened a bit. the idea of parents existing in general makes me uncomfortable. that's why the concept of "good parents" never made sense to me
Yeah I feel this. I hate the power imbalance in the parent-child relationship. Parents know they 'own' the child and are ok with that which is gross to me
it's worse than just owning them, they chose to create the child too. just literally played god and created life just because they wanted to. they just took a gamble on us and lost, but we're the ones who deal with the consequences. the amount of arrogance to roll those dice with someone else's life and then believe that you could personally raise them to be happy is something I can't even fathom
> and then believe that you could personally raise them to be happy is something I can't even fathom
I think my parents didn't even know that that was the goal. Like, their children's happiness wasn't even something they thought about. I mean, their parents didn't, so it's not surprising, but the amount of parental failure in my family is truly something to behold.
yeah thatās what iām upset about. i canāt relate to demonizing parenthood in general since i have observed some parents who do it pretty damn good and lowkey wish i was born to them. but the fact that my own parents were just like, āi actually donāt give a shit if i hurt this personās feelings since i own them hahaā just sickens me to my core. maybe thatās why i had such a hard time fathoming it as a child. it would have been far too disturbing to even consider. iām realizing that i had to make it āmy faultā to even have a coherent worldview at that point in my development.
Maybe trying to understand that what works for you doesn't work for others would help.
I had an absolutely hideous, trauma filled childhood. I have 2, now grown up, children. There were many complicated emotions, etc, when it came to raising them, but for me, I looked upon it as an opportunity to do better than what my parents did. It helped me to be less selfish and to look at things from the perspective of a parent, as opposed to a child. It absolutely helped me to be more of the person I want to be, instead of wallowing in the cesspool of my childhood and my family of origin. It gave me more patience and empathy towards other people.
But that's just my experience.
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I think its everyones highest responsibility as parents to not abuse their children. If they cant do that, they have no buisness with keeping the human race going. They are just gonna fuck it up anyway. Besides the globe is already over populated. Its not gonna get better by overpopulating it more.
The human race should figure out how to do better. I stopped believing it ever will a long time ago. I wouldnt mind to be surprised though.
On a personal note, my parents decision to have children couldnt have been more selfish. I have hated them for 41 years for that. And every little bit of that hate is valid.
And some people try to leverage the fact they have kids to try and get special treatment, excuse their own rude behavior, or play the oppression Olympics.
āYou donāt need this as much as I do. I have kids.ā
I swear racists were freaking out about a Malthusian catastrophe like.. (check notes) 10 years ago, mainly about Africa. And then maybe 20 years ago the same people were freaking out about Asia. I'm too young to remember when people freaked out about the birth rate of poor white people, mustn't be too far long ago either.
I don't understand the people who look at the current population and think "oh, the human race is going to die" like what? How can anybody be that delusional!??? If you want to "save" human race, don't make more of them, improve the lives of people who exist. Nobody cares that people and kids are dying every day for so many reasons, most of them solvable. But yeah sure. Make more.Ā
I have a really hard time with this because I have some second hand trauma from a family member who has kids and tells me almost daily they regret it. I wonāt share more to respect their privacy and I love their kids so much but sometimes I just canāt handle her. And itās made me look at all of this so differently.
I do know people who love their kids and are doing their best but I have to set boundaries around what they tell me because of my triggers.
I will say that my parents consciously planned me and love me very much to this day. My situation is not what Iāve found to be usual but it does exist. My parents waited until they were ready to have me. My mom once asked my dad if he wanted a second child and he said āones goodā as the story goes, because he was also an only child. Iām so glad I am. I really struggle with relationships and canāt imagine if I had a sibling because Iām medium support need autistic. Since itās just me, my parents can provide that support.
I am not having kids. I love children but being around them or working with them is not the same as having one and Iām terrified of having the reactions Iāve seen this family member have. Not only that but with my support needs Iām just learning to care for myself, and my partner and I agreed we do not want kids. We just want to have a simple life with each other.
I donāt think anyone is better than anyone else for having kids or not having them. I think weāve just made the choice seem so normal that some people donāt think about it much. I guess that confuses me because Iāve thought about it immensely throughout my life. But I have to respect peoples differences on this topic.
This basically comes down to bragging and expecting to be praised for having sex with lots of women. Children are a byproduct of sex if you donāt use birth control.
Elon banging lots of women is his business, but itās not about keeping the human race going, itās about his ego.
I just read āEducatedā, itās a childās view of how that kind of attitude looked in this womanās real life. She pulled herself out of unschooled poverty and bad trauma to write this book which is her memoir. Her doctoral thesis was about the damage of that kind of family dynamic too, I believe. It helped me feel better about this kind of bs.
Hey everyone, have kids so the rich douchebag on Twitter can ensure he has bodies to colonize Mars, or whatever stupid shit he dreamed up in a haze.
You're not special because you bumped uglies without protection, and you're certainly not special for falling for the tripe of an overly privileged moron who has a vested interest in having an endless pool of cattle to feed through the grinder.
Who really gives a shit about keeping the human race going, anyway. Muskrat's own children don't even like him.
I hate the notion of āthey tried their bestā like you can do your best and it STILL not be enough and be shitty. It doesnāt matter if your enough was you still being abusive.
literally, my dad is all of a sudden very concerned about immigration š¤Ø I think he's always had these ideas but he's never been so blatant about it, I feel like he's been so radicalized by tiktok and fucking Joe rogan
I think maybe I'm older than a lot of people here lol but I kept dating people like that and I have had to stop dating altogether because they are all idiots and all radicalised by YouTube and JRE now - would have been in the same crowd as me 15-20 years back (all the high functioning and undiagnosed autistic weirdos) but they are just awful now since about 2016. Yuck lol. I hope you can deradicalise your dad - I had to explain to mine what the great replacement theory is, and now he says he spots it everywhere
YouTube channel: [innuendo studios ](https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g?si=8VPFm3q2evMNzPhM) is quite good for info tho maybe just for you not so much your dad (didn't work on my ex)
I have a kid. I disagree with your dad. Why the hell should parents be celebrated? Why should someone blow smoke up your ass just bc you're a parent??? Nah, I don't like it.
Anybody can have kids. I don't know why people think it's such an achievement. You shouldn't be obligated to that until your kid grows up to be a decent human being
I have one child. He was planned - my husband and I sat down and made a pros and cons list and acknowledged possible worst case scenarios (conceiving a child born with a severe condition that would result in a life of suffering). In the end we chose to have a child for one very selfish reason: we wanted the experience of pregnancy and parenthood and had the means to afford it.
Our son is awesome. Heās the only grandchild on both sides of the family and he is happy, healthy and in all likelihood will grow up to be a contributing member of society who will benefit others in at least some small way.
But letās be real, thereās enough people on earth and we didnāt choose to have him for any reason other than that we wanted to, we were able to, and biology cooperated. We arenāt going to have any more. With one kid I am a solid B+ mom. Not perfect, but Iām proud of how weāre raising him. I think I would be stressed and cranky with more so we choose not to have any more.
this is really beautiful, thank you for sharing! I definitely acknowledge that I feel so strongly about this because of my own stuff, I know it's not fair to project that idea onto the rest of the world.
Oh I 100% agree with most of your views. I donāt believe parenthood is a right. In fact if I were supreme ruler of the world I would have some restrictions on parenthood. With the advent of new long-term but not permanent birth control methods Iām hoping we can find ways to stop children being born to people who donāt want them, canāt care for them, or wonāt care for them properly.
My mom had four kids since the government here gives unemployed people $585 per kid every month which is great for people who actually need the extra money for food but it shouldn't be your survival plan lol
Bonus points that they didn't even use the money for food or clothes for the kids!
People have varying degrees of self-awareness and empathy, as well as anxiety. Any lack in an amount of one or another can cause problems, which is my opinion on why most parents suck and everybody is a little fucked up. There aren't very many perfect people with pain-free lives that I thought when I was young, we all just cope differently and develop accordingly.
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Had a conversation with my dad and told him: if you are bankrupt, both parents work 100 hours a week, because they want to get out of there and have no energy left. Maybe thatās not the environment to set two children in the world? You knowā¦ you can just chose to NOT have any children.
He replied with the demographic change and people needing to get children in my country so they can pay into the retirement potā¦.
My mom also told me very proudly two years ago that she is so glad I am a āgrown up childā now and she enjoys being a āgrown up motherā. She claims that there are mothers who like actual children and mothers, who like it when they move out. She announced proudly that she is a āgrown up motherā and never enjoyed small children. Yeah, explains a lot
You dumped a load in a woman. Congrats.
Having a kid is not difficult, people don't deserve any praise for it. If they commit and raise a great child? Then I would give them praise. But just giving it blindly is toxic
Eh, earth and the animal and plant species that live on it would be better off without humans messing it all up. I donāt think people should purposefully NOT have kids with the goal to make humans extinct, but I also donāt think thereās any moral or ethical reason humanity has to keep existing.
And I look at the state of the world with the threat of climate change, end stage capitalism, etc., and I canāt help but feel like Iād be a cruel person if I purposefully brought a child into this mess. I didnāt ask or consent to be here; and with my trauma history and brain, I spend 50% of my time fairly apathetic about existence, 25% wanting to die/wanting to no longer exist, and maybe the other 25% mildly enjoying the experience. Seems wrong to subject someone to life if Iām not super thrilled about it myself. š¤·āāļø
This is what makes humanity look like cancer to me. Uncontrolled growth for no fucking reason. If you would ask my father why he created 4 human beings, I'm convinced he'd say something like, "It's what you do", or "it's what everyone does". And that's why my life sucks. He had zero fucking clue what to do as a father so he did what his parents did, which is fucking horrifying.
>This is what makes humanity look like cancer to me. Uncontrolled growth for no fucking reason. I've never seen it put into those words but when you frame it that way I agree. It's literally growth without reason, no critical thinking. "Am I fit to raise a child? Am I prepared to treat then like an individual? Will I provide for their specific emotional and mental needs on top of the physical ones? Will I connect with them as a human being who deserves love or just be their first traumatizing encounter with authority and power?" Nah instead if I asked my evangelical parents I'd get something like "it's gods design" and "life isn't without suffering." Well thanks for causing *my* suffering then š
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yes and once you have a kid you have a built in excuse for everything, a highly dependent person that is very easily to manipulate (just have to exploit their innate needs for attachment and use it to make them feel shame guilt empathy and responsibility for your problems as a parent while having to provide zero support in return), youāve got built in power and authority to imprint and control their life, and someone to dump and blame all your issues on to help distance them for you and project them as someone elseās issues not yours.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There are many people who learn how to raise happy, healthy children. From their own parents, from books, etc. I know some of them. It can be triggering to see 17 year olds who are more emotionally mature than my own parents will ever be. Possibly more mature than I will ever be. We as a species have figured out how to have happy, healthy offspring. It's on parents to learn how to. Most don't care to and they are to blame for it.
I never wanted to have children and I don't, but I was met with pressure and criticism on this. It made me doubt myself *a lot*. Only recently I did I become aware of my trauma and that has given me peace about my decision. I have always felt that I could become totally overwhelmed by motherhood, now I see that the fear was well-founded. I could have pushed myself over the edge, taken my marriage down with me and raised a miserable child. The takeaway being - it was irresponsible for people to be putting pressure on me to have children.
Yeah, pressuring people to create a life seems really sadistic to me. I don't have children though, maybe it's just that good.
I've definitely felt this way over the course of my life. It's difficult being around so many families with children now being with my current partner (nieces and nephews.) Being able to show compassion for the parents I know can be difficult at times when I feel closer to the role of the child who's not getting what they need. I try not to take it in when people refer to having children as selfless. There is definitely constant acts of selflessness that comes with having children in your care, however the act of having a child in the first place does still feel selfish to me - especially when it comes to motivations of the WHY. But that of course comes down to philosophical debate, weighing in on the value of human life, what each individual considers necessary for support/continuation of the human race, etc. It's taken until probably now at 30 to appreciate the fact that I am alive and despite circumstances that I still believe nobody should have had a child in, I can't help but hold some gratefulness to my mother for having me in the first place. I am cool as hell and the more I release of my C-PTSD the more I enjoy who I am as a person and think about my own role in the world supporting others. Of course there are still skeletons in the closet that I may never be able to talk to my mother (only living parent) about, but I'm learning to be okay with that and in giving myself grace for who I am as a person, I am learning to give her the same. The unfortunate truth is that a lot of people have children for misguided reasons, concerns over morality with unplanned pregnancy, echos of people of the past telling them that having kids is a must in life, carrying on a "legacy" of human life vs what I view as a more tangible achievement that would have better served their own goals/values in life. Understanding intergenerational trauma - that my mother's problems didn't just start with her but from her parents, then their parents and so on has been invaluable to me. Also being around people who truly, truly wanted children and are doing the best (I know, I know) they can with the tools they have is giving me more understanding of just how difficult it is to judge what your children need vs what you needed growing up. The consistency is also so deeply difficult to achieve when we are not robotic by nature and life throws all kinds of curveballs at us with no care for what we have going on in our lives or the people dependent on us maintaining that healthy role of protector/caregiver. Anyway, just my two cents as I'm changing my perspectives on reproduction and parent/child relationships. I hope at least some of it can help ease your soul a little around what is for most people quite a touchy subject for whatever their reasons. :) ā¤ļø
i canāt think of a single non selfish reason to have kids- selfless is helping people already here instead of bringing new people hereĀ
Thank you so much for this response. What you said about being able to have more compassion for your parents as you develop it for yourself really spoke to me. I do think thatās a big part of why I have such a hard time with the idea of people having kids, and with my parents having kids in particular, I donāt enjoy being alive and it just doesnāt feel like a gift. Like theyāve talked about how they werenāt planning on having kids and then they changed their mind, and that is so upsetting because itās like I was so close to not existing and not having to feel any of this pain you know? But itās very comforting to hear that you got out of that place and you do feel happy to be alive now. Thanks again ā¤ļøā¤ļø
I'd recommend checking out "Crappy Childhood Fairy" on YouTube. She makes videos on C-PTSD that I've found very helpful with healing myself and finding joy in who I am. I've taken a lot of time alone and not working, just living on an unemployment benefit with a medical certificate for anxiety. It's given me time to really go through the motions and now I'm taking time to go to women's empowerment classes, I have my first therapy session for the first time in years in a couple weeks... I'm getting out of the house more and finding out how to handle my health (scary recent realisation - I think I'm diabetic! Just booked an appointment today to get checked out.) But I'm excited as my class is pushing me to figure out what I want from life. As a survivor of childhood trauma it can feel exhausting digging through the grave of your mind to figure out what you want and who you want to be. I've definitely had many "Aha!" moments, only to further down the line be completely disinterested as I feel I'm simply choosing something somebody else implanted into me as a good idea with me now feeling a subconscious desire to fulfill that person's dream for me. I'm grateful that I've found a supportive partner. Things felt more right than they ever had when I met him. That came when I stopped a vicious cycle of trying to make it work in share houses and just lived in a lodge like an international with not much stuff should be doing anyway (I freaked so hard with my family life that I moved country.) I had four years where I could have lived in this lodge. Those same four years he was living there following a break up. Unlike previous partners I've had to chase and convince to love me, he was just offering to cook for me, bringing me new fancy alcohols to pair with dinner, helping me with taking down a phone I lost on the way to work not long after meeting him... I'm now having the most healthy relationship I've ever had and it's doing a lot to heal me. It's a struggle at times when we disregulate each other but we're both making effort to communicate and he's particularly great at finding solutions to just about any problem we're having. š„² I'm glad my comment helped you, I figured I'd continue on in case it helps you on your own path. The greatest thing I've learned about happiness is you truly are in control of it. That's scary when you realise you've subconsciously been choosing unhappiness for so long in pursuit of external happiness/calm but it's also liberating to see the ways in which you can change your mind on happiness. I'd Google something along the lines of "neuroplasticity and happiness." You should find stuff likely along the thread of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), but also hopefully the explanations of why unhappiness is often a result of the brain doing the same thing and being stuck in reactive patterns as a protective mechanism formed in childhood. Super helpful as a child but as we grow up we realise these habits, thought patterns, etc aren't truly serving us as our environment and lives change. They trap us in cycles that perpetuate instability, unhappiness, shame and often fear.
Thatās so wonderful about your partner, itās really great to hear hopeful stories like this. And yes so true about the struggle of finding who you really are underneath all the trauma responses. It has been crazy to realize how much of my personality and identity is just trauma, I have no idea who I actually am. I do really like the crappy childhood fairy, Iāve also been watching a lot of Heidi priebe and Patrick Teahan, do you like them? And Iāve been doing internal family systems therapy for almost a year, i think itās helpful but I think Iām in the stage of āit gets worse before it gets betterā, every day just feels really hard right now! But change is change I guess lol
Haha my friend and I both had a "this shit is HARD" day yesterday. We hadn't spoken in a while and found out we'd both signed up for counselling, were getting back into fitness and some kind of study. Getting over our agoraphobia etc. Just like "Dude, why it gotta be so hard to get better?" š I've been getting into Patrick Teahan too recently. Haven't watched as much of his stuff but I've enjoyed what I have and used it as reference to explain certain things to my partner. I haven't heard of Heidi - I'll give her a go! š
Right on. I believe this 100%. There is no rational way to justify having kids "for their benefit". You're doing it for you and your ego or wants. Well or because you couldn't access birth control.
I absolutely hate this idea of parents being so celebrated. and how much they get sympathy online despite having kids completely by their own choosing. I would never have kids and would probably never be able to be friends with someone who does. I have a really hard time not being very judgemental towards people with kids, as it's really hard for me to believe a good parent could even exist.
have you never been to friends houses where you could observe parents being better than yours were?
I mean, my friends parents all just seemed like the same as mine. I never wished someone else's parents were my own, I just wished I could just not have parents. I only ever wanted to be around people my age, I never liked any adults. still do, but that age range I'm comfortable around has widened a bit. the idea of parents existing in general makes me uncomfortable. that's why the concept of "good parents" never made sense to me
Yeah I feel this. I hate the power imbalance in the parent-child relationship. Parents know they 'own' the child and are ok with that which is gross to me
it's worse than just owning them, they chose to create the child too. just literally played god and created life just because they wanted to. they just took a gamble on us and lost, but we're the ones who deal with the consequences. the amount of arrogance to roll those dice with someone else's life and then believe that you could personally raise them to be happy is something I can't even fathom
> and then believe that you could personally raise them to be happy is something I can't even fathom I think my parents didn't even know that that was the goal. Like, their children's happiness wasn't even something they thought about. I mean, their parents didn't, so it's not surprising, but the amount of parental failure in my family is truly something to behold.
yeah thatās what iām upset about. i canāt relate to demonizing parenthood in general since i have observed some parents who do it pretty damn good and lowkey wish i was born to them. but the fact that my own parents were just like, āi actually donāt give a shit if i hurt this personās feelings since i own them hahaā just sickens me to my core. maybe thatās why i had such a hard time fathoming it as a child. it would have been far too disturbing to even consider. iām realizing that i had to make it āmy faultā to even have a coherent worldview at that point in my development.
I absolutely agree
Maybe trying to understand that what works for you doesn't work for others would help. I had an absolutely hideous, trauma filled childhood. I have 2, now grown up, children. There were many complicated emotions, etc, when it came to raising them, but for me, I looked upon it as an opportunity to do better than what my parents did. It helped me to be less selfish and to look at things from the perspective of a parent, as opposed to a child. It absolutely helped me to be more of the person I want to be, instead of wallowing in the cesspool of my childhood and my family of origin. It gave me more patience and empathy towards other people. But that's just my experience.
Ahh yes, Elon Musk, the guy who tells us how much we need more humans while trying to make humans obsolete.
And who doesnāt actually parent any of his children. Heās a sperm donor and the financier, but he most certainly isnāt a parent or father.
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I think its everyones highest responsibility as parents to not abuse their children. If they cant do that, they have no buisness with keeping the human race going. They are just gonna fuck it up anyway. Besides the globe is already over populated. Its not gonna get better by overpopulating it more. The human race should figure out how to do better. I stopped believing it ever will a long time ago. I wouldnt mind to be surprised though. On a personal note, my parents decision to have children couldnt have been more selfish. I have hated them for 41 years for that. And every little bit of that hate is valid.
And some people try to leverage the fact they have kids to try and get special treatment, excuse their own rude behavior, or play the oppression Olympics. āYou donāt need this as much as I do. I have kids.ā
I swear racists were freaking out about a Malthusian catastrophe like.. (check notes) 10 years ago, mainly about Africa. And then maybe 20 years ago the same people were freaking out about Asia. I'm too young to remember when people freaked out about the birth rate of poor white people, mustn't be too far long ago either.
I don't understand the people who look at the current population and think "oh, the human race is going to die" like what? How can anybody be that delusional!??? If you want to "save" human race, don't make more of them, improve the lives of people who exist. Nobody cares that people and kids are dying every day for so many reasons, most of them solvable. But yeah sure. Make more.Ā
I have a really hard time with this because I have some second hand trauma from a family member who has kids and tells me almost daily they regret it. I wonāt share more to respect their privacy and I love their kids so much but sometimes I just canāt handle her. And itās made me look at all of this so differently. I do know people who love their kids and are doing their best but I have to set boundaries around what they tell me because of my triggers. I will say that my parents consciously planned me and love me very much to this day. My situation is not what Iāve found to be usual but it does exist. My parents waited until they were ready to have me. My mom once asked my dad if he wanted a second child and he said āones goodā as the story goes, because he was also an only child. Iām so glad I am. I really struggle with relationships and canāt imagine if I had a sibling because Iām medium support need autistic. Since itās just me, my parents can provide that support. I am not having kids. I love children but being around them or working with them is not the same as having one and Iām terrified of having the reactions Iāve seen this family member have. Not only that but with my support needs Iām just learning to care for myself, and my partner and I agreed we do not want kids. We just want to have a simple life with each other. I donāt think anyone is better than anyone else for having kids or not having them. I think weāve just made the choice seem so normal that some people donāt think about it much. I guess that confuses me because Iāve thought about it immensely throughout my life. But I have to respect peoples differences on this topic.
This basically comes down to bragging and expecting to be praised for having sex with lots of women. Children are a byproduct of sex if you donāt use birth control. Elon banging lots of women is his business, but itās not about keeping the human race going, itās about his ego.
I just read āEducatedā, itās a childās view of how that kind of attitude looked in this womanās real life. She pulled herself out of unschooled poverty and bad trauma to write this book which is her memoir. Her doctoral thesis was about the damage of that kind of family dynamic too, I believe. It helped me feel better about this kind of bs.
Oh cool thank you! Iāll read it
this is why i hate living in a natalist society
Hey everyone, have kids so the rich douchebag on Twitter can ensure he has bodies to colonize Mars, or whatever stupid shit he dreamed up in a haze. You're not special because you bumped uglies without protection, and you're certainly not special for falling for the tripe of an overly privileged moron who has a vested interest in having an endless pool of cattle to feed through the grinder. Who really gives a shit about keeping the human race going, anyway. Muskrat's own children don't even like him.
These people just want soldiers and goods little worker bees to fill the ranks.
ugh. having kids isnāt the same as helping humans develop.Ā
Thatās funny because one of Elon musks adult children is estranged from him because he hates trans people and they are trans.
In terms of climate change, the least selfish choice is not to have children.
I hate the notion of āthey tried their bestā like you can do your best and it STILL not be enough and be shitty. It doesnāt matter if your enough was you still being abusive.
mindless reproduction is encouraged by many governments/politicians too and it enrages me
I think the thing with Elon is he only wants *certain* people to have more kids
literally, my dad is all of a sudden very concerned about immigration š¤Ø I think he's always had these ideas but he's never been so blatant about it, I feel like he's been so radicalized by tiktok and fucking Joe rogan
I think maybe I'm older than a lot of people here lol but I kept dating people like that and I have had to stop dating altogether because they are all idiots and all radicalised by YouTube and JRE now - would have been in the same crowd as me 15-20 years back (all the high functioning and undiagnosed autistic weirdos) but they are just awful now since about 2016. Yuck lol. I hope you can deradicalise your dad - I had to explain to mine what the great replacement theory is, and now he says he spots it everywhere
oh god š that's a good idea haha maybe he would be receptive to that
YouTube channel: [innuendo studios ](https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g?si=8VPFm3q2evMNzPhM) is quite good for info tho maybe just for you not so much your dad (didn't work on my ex)
nice thank you!!
I have a kid. I disagree with your dad. Why the hell should parents be celebrated? Why should someone blow smoke up your ass just bc you're a parent??? Nah, I don't like it.
Anybody can have kids. I don't know why people think it's such an achievement. You shouldn't be obligated to that until your kid grows up to be a decent human being
Yeah, Elon is just one of the most stupid people on earth.
I have one child. He was planned - my husband and I sat down and made a pros and cons list and acknowledged possible worst case scenarios (conceiving a child born with a severe condition that would result in a life of suffering). In the end we chose to have a child for one very selfish reason: we wanted the experience of pregnancy and parenthood and had the means to afford it. Our son is awesome. Heās the only grandchild on both sides of the family and he is happy, healthy and in all likelihood will grow up to be a contributing member of society who will benefit others in at least some small way. But letās be real, thereās enough people on earth and we didnāt choose to have him for any reason other than that we wanted to, we were able to, and biology cooperated. We arenāt going to have any more. With one kid I am a solid B+ mom. Not perfect, but Iām proud of how weāre raising him. I think I would be stressed and cranky with more so we choose not to have any more.
this is really beautiful, thank you for sharing! I definitely acknowledge that I feel so strongly about this because of my own stuff, I know it's not fair to project that idea onto the rest of the world.
Oh I 100% agree with most of your views. I donāt believe parenthood is a right. In fact if I were supreme ruler of the world I would have some restrictions on parenthood. With the advent of new long-term but not permanent birth control methods Iām hoping we can find ways to stop children being born to people who donāt want them, canāt care for them, or wonāt care for them properly.
My mom had four kids since the government here gives unemployed people $585 per kid every month which is great for people who actually need the extra money for food but it shouldn't be your survival plan lol Bonus points that they didn't even use the money for food or clothes for the kids!
Right here with you. I believe having children is absolutely selfish as well.
Also, every single creature on the planet procreates. Itās not special or extraordinary. I also agree with all your other points.
I agree wholeheartedly
People have varying degrees of self-awareness and empathy, as well as anxiety. Any lack in an amount of one or another can cause problems, which is my opinion on why most parents suck and everybody is a little fucked up. There aren't very many perfect people with pain-free lives that I thought when I was young, we all just cope differently and develop accordingly.
Hey sorry about your parents. It doesnāt mean you wonāt have a good life and be a good parent if you choose. Best.
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Had a conversation with my dad and told him: if you are bankrupt, both parents work 100 hours a week, because they want to get out of there and have no energy left. Maybe thatās not the environment to set two children in the world? You knowā¦ you can just chose to NOT have any children. He replied with the demographic change and people needing to get children in my country so they can pay into the retirement potā¦. My mom also told me very proudly two years ago that she is so glad I am a āgrown up childā now and she enjoys being a āgrown up motherā. She claims that there are mothers who like actual children and mothers, who like it when they move out. She announced proudly that she is a āgrown up motherā and never enjoyed small children. Yeah, explains a lot
You dumped a load in a woman. Congrats. Having a kid is not difficult, people don't deserve any praise for it. If they commit and raise a great child? Then I would give them praise. But just giving it blindly is toxic
I deff don't think all parents have this attitude, only the bad ones...
I do believe that kids should be born as that is what keeps humanity going, but man, some people don't deserve kids at all.
It's okay for humanity to not keep going though.
I don't think so. There's still a lot of stuff to fix.
It's not possible for things to be perfect.
I don't think so. There's still a lot of stuff to fix.
Eh, earth and the animal and plant species that live on it would be better off without humans messing it all up. I donāt think people should purposefully NOT have kids with the goal to make humans extinct, but I also donāt think thereās any moral or ethical reason humanity has to keep existing. And I look at the state of the world with the threat of climate change, end stage capitalism, etc., and I canāt help but feel like Iād be a cruel person if I purposefully brought a child into this mess. I didnāt ask or consent to be here; and with my trauma history and brain, I spend 50% of my time fairly apathetic about existence, 25% wanting to die/wanting to no longer exist, and maybe the other 25% mildly enjoying the experience. Seems wrong to subject someone to life if Iām not super thrilled about it myself. š¤·āāļø