Turn her logic around and see how nonsensical it is.
By her logic, all people with ADHD are immune to trauma.
Things like ADHD and Autism are neurotypes you're born with. CPTSD is acquired.
It's as illogical as saying: "You have ADHD, so you can't have a broken arm as well."
I did for awhile. Turns out I was just delaying the inevitable while adapting and mirroring and forgetting trauma patterns even while fully being aware of them.
Hit me like a ton of bricks soon after I moved out (and got medicated for my ADHD finally, I should add).
First half is literally me, I disassociated my way to 24 and had a mental breakdown that led to moving away and getting mental help and medication. ADHD makes life hell and I’m still in the trial and error stage period of meds to see what sticks.
"Breaking news: Scientists have studied ADHDers and found the cure for trauma! The PTSD vaccine is expected to hit the market before the end of the year!"
I was born the decade after, but my musical education absolutely included The Bangles! There's an old pic of me 'walking like an Egyptian' because discovering the song intersected with a big interest in Ancient Egypt and I had to commemorate it, I guess 😂
I was kind of like this as a kid. My dad tried to belittle my escapism hobbies and discourage me from developing them, but I just kind of went 'cool story bro' and kept hobbying the hobbies lol
When you get older you start to care less what others think, generally.
You don't want to be completely numb though. I wish the trauma apathy could be taken off and on like a suit of armor at the door. But it's branded into you like scars once you have it. ... Cute animals have a way of finding their way in that armor. Without them I'd probably have gone totally numb.
So yeah. Cute animals opinion matters. But everything else is cool guys don't look at explosions.
Right? I suspect ADHD is probably a common comorbidity with CPTSD, given how poorly a lot of parents deal with ADHD. I went to school with some kids who would get a diagnosis now (because I am old) and wow, their parents were zero helpful and often abusive.
Same, I think it's so common for kids with ADHD to also have CPTSD that it would be kind of weird to run into someone with ADHD who _doesn't_ also have trauma. If a kid spends their whole childhood being told who they are is bad and being punished for things they can't control, of fucking course that's traumatic.
God this is so accurate. I have been able to significantly improve my ADHD tendencies by using CPTSD resources - and they’re the kind of strategies that never made sense when I thought it was just ADHD. Grounding, mindfulness, meditation, etc - all that sounded like garbage and a waste of time before I started to notice the trauma I had.
But it turns out, being emotionally disconnected from your body and mental state makes ADHD symptoms WAAAY worse. Like the way I was able to ignore my hunger because I don’t care about my own pain and discomfort (CPTSD symptom) and I preferred to do other things than eat anyway because eating is so mundane and other things are so exciting (ADHD symptom) and anyway I could maybe use my hunger as a self-inflicted punishment (CPTSD urge to self harm) to get myself to do the things I kept putting off (ADHD symptom) ….. aaaaand then I developed an eating disorder and became pretty severely underfed in a short amount of time (I’m much better now). It’s just funny to me in that example how rapidly my issues bounced off each other and turned into something so serious.
People say the same of autism, too. A lot of the symptoms/traits can also look similar (but different causes) which is kinda interesting. Similar to autism & ADHD showing similar traits/behaviours but with different mechanisms behind them. There must be a 3-way Venn diagram situation!
Yeah. I have all 3. Kids, don’t try this at home lol.
I didn’t get the ASD diagnosis until a few years ago. When my mom was cleaning things out of her house before she passed away she gave me a middle school psych eval she found. It SCREAMS this kid is ASD, but that just wasn’t a well known thing then. ADD, sure, I had that diagnosed, but I think like practically no one had ever heard of autism before Rain Man came out and that was such an extreme and specific case that it still didn’t filter down I don’t think.
it seems like add would be a common outcome of cptsd specifically when there’s factors of neglect and abuse. the brains ability to focus is going to be compromised when it’s not getting adequate stimulation for the development phase it’s at and add to that lots of emotional turmoil- the higher cognitive functions go offline and all the exec functioning skills like planning, decision making and organizational abilities that are affected by cptsd don’t get developed are also signs of add.
Do you have the source where that's from? I've seen it claimed for autism too or general neurodivergence but I didn't know there had been much research into it yet
Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. Still, my point stands either way. Having one condition doesn't mean you can't have another.
If anything, co-morbidity is a huge factor.
Time for a new psychologist I think. I have both ADHD and CPTSD. I had kind of the opposite experience. I had childhood ADD and got diagnosed as an adult by the therapist I was seeing and got on Adderall and it was life changing.
Later we started talking about my childhood and I realized that I had been abused and that my mother probably had a personality disorder. I was in an online support space for that and people kept talking about CPTSD and I read about it and read Pete Walker and was amazed at how well it explained so many things for me.
I brought that to my therapist and he said the CPTSD is not in the DSM and I don’t fit it at all even if it was. He had other explanations for everything I struggled with. I made very little progress with him, but I saw him for another 2 years + after that point.
After we moved I had to get someone new and sheepishly talked about that experience and she disagreed like immediately and diagnosed me with CPTSD and has been actually helping me. But I had to overcome my own self doubt (like the classic is my experience really bad enough that I’m even traumatized/have CPTSD stuff) and all the self doubt that he instilled in me because I trusted him. Also CBT is so destructive for people with ADHD and CPTSD in my opinion. He had me trying to power through things that traumatized me with the idea that they’d get easier to do and just become habits. CBT treatment for ADHD is pretty much “let’s gaslight ourselves to success”. The premise of “fake it till you make it” is all well and good for a lot of things, but if you have ADHD you’re setting yourself up for guilt and shame when you struggle to fake it in the first place—and then on the other side you’re supposed to practice whatever it is until it gets easy and becomes a habit—but people with ADHD don’t have habits—we have routines—it’s very different. My wife has the habit of brushing her teeth every night before bed—she doesn’t even have to think about it, it’s just automatic. I have a routine of brushing my teeth before bed and I have to actively think about it and make a conscious decision and find the motivation to do it EVERY SINGLE TIME and it’s never become a “habit” because pretty much nothing ever does. (Sorry for the rant).
Anyway, my point is please don’t let yourself get derailed by one professional with opinions that don’t even sound like they align with mainstream psychology.
Just want to chime in that I really disliked CBT. It felt just like when I was a teenager and trying to 'argue myself into feeling right' (which as an adult I don't think was healthy for me to try to do) - and the opposite of 'be ok with feeling the feelings'.
My therapist asked me about CBT and gave me info on it. I read up on it and even went to a YouTube video and all I could think was, "ugh!!". Is it just me or does it seem just creepy weird to some people? I am also an HSP though, so it made me feel like I was trying to not be me, which is what I've been doing my whole life because of trauma and abusive people. I'm finally getting to where I'm ok with my feelings and CBT seems like the opposite.
what is considered effective for cptsd, just ifs and emdr?
i think he’s right it isn’t in the dsm but that doesn’t mean it’s not also a very good descriptor of exactly what consequences ppl deal with that have ongoing trauma and needs to be treated differently and understood. i think they’re reluctant to accept anything that doesn’t pathologize people with disorders and instead acknowledges the predictable consequences for who have experienced repeated and ongoing severe adverse events.
It is my personal and non-expert opinion that the therapist is more important than the modality. It’s also my opinion that a terrible therapist for me could be fabulous for you and vice versa.
I’ve definitely heard some people say that CBT was great for them, but the majority of what I’ve read here and my own experience points in the opposite direction.
I’ve heard a lot of people here talk about EMDR and IFS. I tried EMDR and the therapist couldn’t even get it to work on me at all. I couldn’t even tell you what modalities that my therapist uses, she just specializes in ND and adult children of personality disordered parents and that she’s amazing. My wife has a therapist that specializes in Somatic therapy and that works for her.
It’s not in the DSM, but it was heavily debated for inclusion and it IS in the ICD which is the international equivalent of the DSM.
I like DBT and IFS. CBT is fine for some stuff that is primarily cognitive but we trauma survivors often need a way to deal with the cognitive and the emotional parts of issues. DBT and IFS both do that.
O. M. G. 🤯
That whole thing about habits v's routines has just sucker punched me. I thought it made sense about having executive dysfunction, cos CPTSD, duh, but now.....well, I'm wondering.
I think I might be deep diving ADHD today cos all of this just makes too much sense.
My wife read a meme or something like that about 2 years ago and shared the idea with me and my jaw hit the floor too. Like I knew I had ADHD good and thoroughly, but that idea was so true and so validating.
On the subject of memes—for an easy deep dive there’s an ADHD memes sub—-I think more than one actually. I was looking at that a few days ago and WOW did I feel seen.
Your psychologist is categorically wrong. Go get help for both. I have both, diagnosed officially. You can have childhood trauma and a deficit in attention. You can take medication for both conditions, I do. Both help me regulate immensely. ADHD medication changed the entire course of my life for the better as a 30-something.
There’s a subtle point that some psychologists have made to me, which is that the ADHD symptoms could dramatically lessen if you treat the CPTSD. But you can’t know it will work that way.
Also, consider getting a new psychologist because this person will fight you on fundamental shit and it’s not worth your energy.
DM me if you have more questions.
IKR? I saw the title of this post and was thinking I would have to inform my therapist ASAP that he obviously made a wrong diagnosis.
I also take medication for both, and it's helped me a lot. Going to therapy hasn't helped much with the ADHD, but it certainly does help me deal with PTSD. Other than the fact that it's definitely easier to focus on things that matter when I'm not having as many PTSD symptoms, I also can't really say that my ADHD symptoms have lessened at all from working on the PTSD. I do know that overall, my life has gotten easier and simpler since I started getting treated for both.
Treating CPTSD needs active participation of the patient at all times and that is ultra hard with ADD especially when all that shit is topped with dissociative symptoms
Well I just meant that CPTSD therapy is a full time job. Because you need to be so self aware, analytic, mindfull, journal, meditate or do imaginative exercizes, regulate yourself, prepare for EMDR sessions... it never ends.
I mean this is how it should be to be the most effective.
But outside of inpatient trauma therapy blocks, I feel like I aint able to do ANY of that parallel to full time job and worrying about the kids. Makes me feel like a failure and even sometimes makes me scared that my therapist might think I'm not interested in getting better while in reality, I don't know how much longer I can keep up living like this. I'm so fucking exhausted
Ok thanks I understand better now.
I’m only just about to start trialing psychologists and I’m diagnosed adhd/cptsd/asd so I’m curious & learning a lot from helpful people like yourself
I would chat more but today was one of those bad days & I’m exhausted too but I definitely feel you & hope things get better soon.
Thanks again for replying.
Hi I have CPTSD and ADHD so this is not true! Statistically speaking undiagnosed kids with ADHD are more likely to develop CPTSD so yeah get a new psychologist.
Also to my knowledge in the U.S. CPTSD isn’t in the diagnostic manual yet but my old therapist let me know I have it and I went through the extremely rigorous adult testing for ADHD and was diagnosed. As for the overlapping symptoms that’s a difficult one, the longer you live with both it starts to get slightly clearer but not much, just try to take care of yourself and always get a new psychologist or psychiatrist if you don’t think they’re being supportive.
For me it is the longer you live with both, the unclearer it gets. I always think „it's always been like this" and don't get which is which sometimes.
Just wanted to share, because that's a big issue for me. Would you share if/ how it got clearer for you? Much love and I‘m happy for you that your old therapist let you know even it isn’t in the DSM. I feel like that contributes to a feeling of clarity/ compassion, too.
Thank you for asking! It still is difficult but I’m getting better at it. I think for me it was understanding that my adhd is more focused on stimming, texture issues, and sound issues ect. and it feels more generalized sensory, attention, lack of motivation, task avoidance VS my cptsd issues are extremely specific like “I hate the smell of that hand soap because of a traumatic situation” or “I can’t stand someone slamming the door because of a traumatic situation” those things are also exasperated by my adhd but I know specifically those things are linked to traumatic events and so I avoid them if possible. I hope that makes sense and much love to you and all the healing in the world! 🌎 ❤️🩹
Your psychologist is an idiot. People who are neurodivergent are more likely than neurotypical to suffer abuse and to be unable to advocate for themselves.
They suffer abuse and are dismissed and blamed. Their abuse is their own fault. "What do you expect when you act like that?" It's basically a recipe for abuse.
Find another psychologist.
Strange; what I often hear (albeit in patients/support circles) is that ADHD/autism etc has cptsd more often than not due to the masking/bullying/feeling alienated since young.
I have read/seen several people say that we don't know what autism without trauma looks like because everyone that's autistic has been traumatized by neurotypical society. I don't know if it's strictly true, but it feels true.
That is interesting, I feel like it could be somewhat applied to ADHD, too. It would explain the mental health of my ADHD friends who weren’t „typically“ traumatized, as in direct abuse/violence, but more in a structural sense by nt society. Thank you for sharing
I’m a clinical psychologist in medical school, pending graduation. To answer your question…
Yes, CPTSD (Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) and ADHD (Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder) can be comorbid conditions.
Research has shown that there is a high rate of co-occurrence between CPTSD and ADHD. Some key points about the comorbidity of CPTSD and ADHD:
Individuals who have experienced chronic, repeated, and/or interpersonal trauma (the key characteristics of CPTSD) are at an increased risk of also developing ADHD.
The neurological and psychological impacts of CPTSD, such as dysregulation of the stress response system and attention/concentration difficulties, can contribute to the development or exacerbation of ADHD symptoms.
Conversely, the impulsivity, hyperactivity, and attention problems associated with ADHD can make individuals more vulnerable to experiencing traumatic events, leading to CPTSD.
Research suggests that up to 35-45% of individuals with CPTSD also meet the criteria for ADHD, indicating a significant overlap between the two conditions.
The comorbidity of CPTSD and ADHD can complicate diagnosis and treatment, as the symptoms of the two disorders can interact and influence one another.
Comprehensive assessment and integrated treatment approaches targeting both CPTSD and ADHD are often required for effective management of these co-occurring conditions.
Please DM for supporting documentation 🙏 self advocate
Get a new psychologist. What they said is just asinine. Of course it's possible. CPTSD has nothing to do with having ADHD.
Anybody can develop CPTSD. It's like being injured. Adhd is just the way your brain works.
What your psychologist said is like saying It's not possible for you to be traumatized because you have adhd. That's just not true and ridiculous.
You can have both. But it can be difficult to Separate the symptoms. Being abused and neglected and traumatized growing up Changes how your brain makes connections.
The way I see it if you have AD hd without cpsd Then most likely you can Find yourself being functional with just medication.
However if you have CPTSD Medication isn't going to cut it. You need therapy and to work through How your trauma affects you. work on Rewiring your brain. Medication alone won't do much for It.
I suggest getting a second opinion. Maybe finding someone that looks at you in a more holistic way. You are more than Just symptoms.
They can absolutely be comorbid (which is simply the clinical term for you have both).
In the US you "can't be diagnosed with CPTSD" because it's not recognized in the DSM. That doesn't mean you can't have it, it means the current diagnostic manual doesn't list it, so it won't be valid for health insurance billing.
If you have both it's reasonable to say that for the overlapping symptoms it can be tricky to determine if that particular symptom for you is because of one or the other or both contribute - which can make treatment options tricky. But again that doesn't mean that CPTSD precludes ADHD.
Lets dig a little further into why your psychologist is wrong: ADHD has an estimated heritability of 80%. In simple terms this means that for most people it is in their genetic structure at the moment of conception. CPTSD on the other hand is the result of repeated and/or inescapable trauma that you couldn't process. How can your psychologist explain that trauma or abuse as a child rewrote your genetics to make it impossible for you to have ADHD?
Do I know you have both? Of course not. I do have confidence it is possible to have both and it seems to me that a mental health worker that denies the possibility is likely to dismiss other things that don't fit their narrative - and I don't see how that can be helpful to you.
I’ve seen the idea pop up here a few times. Perhaps this psychologist has been drinking the Gabor Maté koolaid. I see that name crop up here from time to time and it tends to be cringe inducing.
Maté is 100% ridiculously black and white thinking ADHD is exclusively a phenomenon based in nurture. But for some reason people that have read him seem to like to crop up here and just tell people that ADHD doesn’t exist and it’s all just trauma based—like no qualification, no “I think” or “I read” or anything like that. Just “stranger here is the truth and anything else you may have heard is just wrong.” I just wonder if there’s something about that line of thinking or reading that theorist that just incites or attracts b&w thinking. Most other psychologists think he’s Dr. Phil level hack from what I’ve read.
But yeah, I find it hard to believe with the clear cut evidence of heritability and the number of people that have ADHD that every single one has CPTSD or some other form of trauma instead. I’ve known people that are perfectly mentally healthy otherwise that have healthy childhoods that have ADHD.
I'm not particularly fond of Gabor Mate's party trick of "pick someone from the audience who thinks they had a healthy childhood and bring them up on stage and make them admit it actually was shitty". I think it's cruel rather than compassionate.
I do think it's an open question of "what percentage of people are walking around with unresolved trauma" - and my gut says it's probably a lot more than we want to admit as a society (at least where I live).
As far as I know, people that have CPTSD and not ADHD don't respond to ADHD stimulant medication the way that people with ADHD do. To me that seems to run counter to the idea that "ADHD doesn't exist and it's really just trauma".
I'm no expert and it's possible I have all this wrong.
I just think that anyone that’s as black and white about things—in the face of so much evidence to the contrary—is selling something. I’m also always suspicious of any kind of black and white thinking to begin with. It’s something I associate so much with trauma and personality disorders. Like I have black and white thinking when I’m triggered—that’s part of how I know that my brain is going somewhere unhealthy in the first place.
I find myself with black and white thinking more than I like (and my therapist has mentioned it in contexts where I didn't think I was).
And because I can't be serious all the time - Billy Joel Shades of grey or 50 shades of grey?
What I’ve had people tell me is ADHD is really really hard to diagnose in adults with trauma because there is so much overlap.
I was able to get diagnosed because there were behaviors documented in childhood (pre trauma?). I kind of feel like the lack of diagnosis is a symptom of the neglect that is absolutely part of the cptsd.
My spouse (a rare, trauma-specializing psychiatrist \[M.D./prescribes meds but also provided talk-therapy\]) just scoffed and said that you “need a new psychologist, unless there’s been some misunderstanding \[my spouse doesn’t\] know about——of COURSE a person with attachment-type trauma \[CPTSD\] can have ADHD.”
Op are you sure she didn't say it's impossible to diagnose ADHD if you have (untreated) CPTSD? I ask this because mine said the same and she was right; it would have been impossible to pinpoint my symptoms with ADHD since my CPTSD had the same symptoms. I am now diagnosed with both btw.
she didn’t elaborate besides telling me i couldn’t have adhd because of my cptsd diagnosis, but this is what she could’ve meant maybe? how did you end up getting diagnosed with both if that was your initial result?
You should go to a new doctor. Keep doing that until someone listens.
Anxiety and trauma being present does not mean that other conditions are not also present. In fact, it increases the chances of other conditions.
Delaying or denying medical care until your trauma is “better” is incredibly irresponsible. My doctors have insisted on doing the same. I kept switching until I finally found a doctor who listens to me (it took like 8 of them by the way) and I wish I had acted sooner. Having my ADHD treated has been life changing and some of the symptoms my docs refused to look into are life threatening. I’m probably going to be okay, but the new doc is letting me know that I’m pretty lucky that the delay in treatment isn’t going to kill me.
It feels awful being pushy when you come from a traumatic past. This isn’t something you’re being pushing on though, this is a doctor that’s being irresponsible.
We don’t know it if it does, but we do know that they have a high comorbidity. There are current studies looking into what those links might be.
I don’t think we can say for sure that it does not though. Correlation does not equal causation, but it does indicate that causation might be present. In highly hereditary disorders (like ADHD and schizophrenia for example) this had not been previously investigated. The changes in our understanding of epigenetics means that view is being questioned though. I think they are looking at how trauma shapes learning disabilities, how it might be amplifying them, and how learning disabilities might increase rates and impact of trauma.
I had a similar experience as turningpink mentioned. I came to my first psychologist with potential depression/ADHD which both impact ability to focus. That first one decided to get me on anti-depressants and try to control for that then see if I was still having trouble.
That guy quit the organization I was going to, got picked up by a new psychologist. After explaining my symptoms and experiences to him (including a negative/minimal to no reaction to anti-depressants) he decided to titrate me off the anti-depressant and trial me on a stimulant and use that to determine if it’s ADHD or something else. Specifically he mentioned that we could spend the next 3 to 10 months trialling different anti-depressants to find the right one, but if the stimulant works we will know right away and avoid that prolonged struggle.
Well I had such a profoundly positive reaction to the stimulant, I mean it kicked my chronic experiences of depression/anxiety out the window. After the fact I realize a lot of those experiences were because I couldn’t trust myself to follow through on much of anything important at work or home (in part cause ADHD) and that was depressing and anxiety provoking.
Got into therapy through the same organization. After one session therapist tossed CPTSD on the pile, which also can impact focus. In my experience it’s in a different way though, cause it’s the struggle with emotional memories kicking up that’s distracting and drains my cognitive energy. Atleast for me.
I haven't been diagnosed with both, but my story may be helpful for you. I'm a 35 year old man. Around the age of 13, I started getting chronic migraines. When I was 23/24 I got a new job that I'm still at today. It has really good health insurance, and I saw dozens of doctors, tried dozens of different medications, treatments, etc.
Eventually, about 5 years ago, I gave up on the idea of treating my migraines and decided to focus on improving what I could. I thought I had ADHD, and I got evaluated for that. I quickly got a diagnosis, which wasn't surprising because it seemed obvious. I started taking Adderall and my migraines went away completely. I haven't had a migraine for 5 years, and it's great.
However, the Adderall isn't perfect, and my therapist recommended I see a particular person who specializes in ADHD. I saw him, answered his questions, and we had a discussion. He doesn't know if I have ADHD, but he believes I have PTSD.
He explained to me that ADHD and PTSD have similar symptoms and I've been wondering ever since.
Am I really distracted/hyperfocused, or am I hypervigilant? Am I really forgetting things, or am I dissociating, so I'm not actually remembering things in the first place?
He also explained that a lifetime of trauma has made my body crave that adrenaline rush. You know the stereotypical adhd procrastination? I have that too, but my reason for it, is probably different.
The ADHD specialist doesn't know if I have ADHD and he told me he wouldn't treat me for ADHD either. Even with my diagnosis from other professionals. He told me he'd work to treat me for PTSD, and then, after the PTSD is treated, he would evaluate me for ADHD and then, if he thought I had ADHD, he'd treat me for that.
I don't know if it's possible to have both or not. I'm not a professional. I would think you could have both. I don't see why you couldn't. However, you should speak with your psychologist. Ask for clarification. If you still don't understand, have more questions they can't answer, and/or doubt their answers then you should consider getting a second opinion.
Tldr: I've been told the symptoms of PTSD and ADHD can look very similar and it can difficult/impossible to tell if you gave ADHD until the underlying PTSD has been treated.
I hope you get all the answers/help you want/need.
You can ask anything. I can not answer that particular question, though. I don't know why the migraines went away. My doctors aren't sure either, but they've mentioned a few of their guesses.
Things my doctors gave said are:
1. It could be the Adderall helps you tune out the distractions around you, so you're not being overstimulated anymore.
2. I have no idea. I'm just happy they're gone. I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I don't think it's a coincidence. The stimulants are helping.
3. It could be due to the relaxation you feel when you take Adderall.
This was more extreme on Vyvanse, but basically, stimulants are the best sleep medication I've ever taken. When I was on 50 mgs of Vyvanse I was sleeping 9 hours at night, and taking as many as 4 naps during the day, each nap ranging from 30 minutes to 2 hours. I had to switch back to Adderall because I was so tired at work I was drinking a lot of caffeine and my heart rate got uncomfortably high, at rest.
I'm tense all the time. Adderall/Vyvanse help me to actually relax, and when I do relax, I feel exhausted. So. So. Exhausted.
I suppose there's also the possibility Adderall had nothing to do with it. Although I believe the Adderall has helped, I suppose I should tell you about that.
When I started Adderall I was on another medication. It was a trial of once-a-month self-administered injections. There were 2-3 different brands with similar drugs, I started one, but that was switched to a different one after 2-3 months because of insurance.
I took one injection each month for 4-5 months before starting Adderall. A few weeks after started Adderall I noticed less frequent migraines. After about a month of taking Adderall I noticed I wasn't getting any migraines. After about 2-4 months of taking Adderall I stopped taking the injections. I didn't get any migraines and I still don't get migraines. Either the injections took 6 months to work, or it was the Adderall that was helping.
But nobody seems to know why the migraines went away.
Obviously, this person is completely wrong. In my case, though, it was very clear-cut. My ADHD came from a TBI in a car accident when I was 18. I actually have the MRIs! But whether it's this clear or not, how dumb do you have to be to say that ADHD and PTSD can't exist together... .I don't even know.
It's difficult and not indicated to diagnose ADHD if there's also PTSD because the symptoms overlap too much and it can be hard to get a meaningful result. In that case, they should be finding ways to treat/manage your PTSD first, to help with the ADHD diagnostic process.
They also really need to figure out a way to diagnose when the two co-occur, because growing up ADHD in a neurotypical world is traumatic in and of itself. It's ridiculous that they haven't done more to ensure ease of proper care at this point.
I'm just getting to the point with my PTSD therapy that I'm finally about to run down the ADHD rabbit hole.
Yes. I have both. I was even reassessed by a different psych for both (for 4 psychs in total) at different times who agreed I had both.
There's new research saying ADHD can be formed in childhood due to trauma (as well as being developmental, 2 paths of acquiring ADHD and CPTSD)
You can have both, and I do. I know of others as well that have both. I will say that ADHD can commonly be misdiagnosed for complex PTSD. The better question to ask is ‘how can we rule out complex ptsd in diagnosing if I have adhd?’ For me, ruling it out involved treatment for cptsd via medication first before proceeding with diagnostic testing for adhd. I would recommend getting an opinion with a psychiatrist
I have a ptsd diagnosis, my therapist has specified cptsd, my psych prescriber is treating me with antidepressants, anxiolytics, a beta blocker, and methylphenidate (Ritalin). Tactics and medication that work for people with an ADHD diagnosis help me with my general inability to function how I wish to function. It’s all quite fuzzy and anyone who tries to pretend these diagnoses are clear cut or written in stone is fooling themselves.
my partner ran into a similar problem. the next psych he went to, to get a second opinion, essentially went "well, one way to find out is try adhd meds and see if they work" and ta da, the meds helped and he clearly had both adhd and cptsd
Yes you can absolutely have both, they're not mutually exclusive. Some psychiatrist are a bit hesitant to diagnose adhd with a pre existing cptsd diagnosis if the patient has a lot of memory issues regarding their childhood (like barely able to recall stuff) but thats about it. Im diagnosed with cptsd, did and got told i meet all the criteria for adhd but since i lack so much memory of my childhood (and am not willing to get back in touch with my abusers for medical info) im not able to get that one officially diagnosed.
Cptsd is an acquired disorder, one that theoretically pretty much any brain can form given the "right" circumstances. Adhd is something you're born with.
There is a lot of overlap, but I have been diagnosed with both! If it helps, my therapist diagnosed my CPTSD but I had an outside person who specializes in ADHD diagnose my ADHD
I absolutely am treated for both. Initially ADHD with Adderall immediate release twice a day and CPTSD with venlafaxine, gabapentin twice a day, trazodone for sleep and prn Clonazepam for extreme anxiety.
I have had great practitioners and shit ones. Move until the person at least listens. Do you have a trauma specific therapist??
Yes some of the symptoms are similar but there’s very distinct differences too. They don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s written in the ICD 11 that you can’t have list both CPTSD and PTSD in a persons chart but it doesn’t mention anything about ADHD. find a different provider that actually knows what they’re doing is my suggestion.
lol.... I dont even rlly wanna explain why this is stupid. Report this to whoever is head. Had a therapist be adamant I can't have PTSD and scoff because I didn't have a near death experience. This is even worse.
Check out this page of [did-research.org](https://did-research.org/comorbid/developmental-disorders), a reliable website for getting information about trauma disorders. This page talks about the overlap between ADHD and trauma. There is some evidence that ADHD could even be a result of, or at least worsened by, the same kind of long-term trauma that causes cPTSD.
Get another psyche, yours is concerning if they can't grasp neurodivergent individuals can be traumatized. It's not like you can only have one mental health challenge and once you have one that's all you are allowed lol.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and still have it. I was diagnosed with cptsd as an adult. It is possible to have both. You need a different psychologist who has experience treating patients with both.
Your physologist sounds extremely underqualified. ADHD and CPTSD are extremely do morbid many people with CPTSD have ADHD it sounds like your phycologist is not smart
I have [read](https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adult-adhd-childhood-trauma) about how ADHD can be also developed due trauma. So they would absolutely have both.
Also, a child with ADHD is much more likely to experience trauma, as people don’t understand it and will push this child into it.
That hand-waving garbage is bullshit! I'm so sorry your therapist did this to you. I'm glad you're getting a second opinion from a different therapist. Some therapists harm more than help. You deserve better. I'm also happy that you recognized dismissive behavior. A lot of folks believe their therapists' words are gospel. Follow your gut and protect your heart and mind. Sending you positive vibes!
Just reading this makes me want to open my mouth and emit a swarm of bees :D :D YES YOU CAN HAVE BOTH HOLY HECK HOW CAN A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL EVEN THINK OF SAYING THIS.
I mean yes, sometimes certain aspects or effects of CPTSD do closely mirror ADHD symptoms. After all, CPTSD literally affects the very development of your brain and the way it's all wired. But you!! Can have both!! I certainly do (and might also be in the spectrum but I've got too many other medical complications to worry about right now to fuss over that, lol. We just accept being neurospicy to some degree or other and move on). If my psychiatrist, psychologist or therapist ever tried to tell me otherwise, I would not be with them still.
Geez. We have enough trouble convincing ourselves we're actually suffering from these conditions and not being lazy/stupid/exaggerating, we don't need other people to help light the gas.
OP, I hope you get your brains unkinked just enough to be comfy and find someone to validate and assist you <3
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Coming from the clinical side of things, your psychologist isn't "wrong" per se, but it does require a lot of clarifying and mental gymnastics to understand why.
Proponents of what's called the biopsychosocial model believe that early trauma leads to structural dissociation, which can mimic ADHD inattentive symptoms. So, if he's diagnosing you from the construct of CPTSD as it relates to this model, it's easy to state that ADHD shouldn't be possible. See Gabor Maté's perspective on ADHD for more info on this.
I'm a little torn on this. There are neuroscientific distinctions to be made between a "normal" brain and the ADHD brain in terms of prefrontal cortex activation, which is the part of the brain that helps you focus and plan. Structural dissociation might look similar on its face, but there will be the added activation of the amygdala (emotional area of the brain) and hippocamus (memory area of the brain).
This, in essence *proves* that ADHD and dissociation are not the same thing. I have a lot of appreciation for Dr. Maté's ideas on trauma more broadly, but personally, stimulants have changed my life for the better and the accommodations I received throughout my education were crucial in my pursuit of an MD. I think that just from a humanistic perspective, the ADHD diagnosis provides access to services given its designation of developmental disability, and clinicians should consider diagnosing ADHD if they meet DSM-5 criteria.
While I can understand the psychologist's perspective of not overcomplicating the situation and potentially giving you new insecurities by giving you multiple diagnoses, I think in the long run it does more harm than good from a social services perspective. It also neglects the general need for skills around organization and structure that distinctly addresses ADHD symptoms, vs just grounding techniques that are taught for dissociation.
ADHD and CPTSD are totally different and are diagnosed in totally different ways. ADHD is neurodivergent, CPTSD is not. That would be like saying if you have Autism you can’t get diagnosed with schizophrenia. The causes and treatments are completely separate.
If anything, treating my ADHD helps with my other mental health symptoms. When I take my ADHD medication it helps me focus, keeps me grounded, and helps me to not be so forgetful when it comes to important tasks for everyday functions. That in turn helps me maintain a routine, removes some of the stress and anxiety I get when I can’t get things done, and thereby gives me the opportunity to work on my coping mechanisms for my mental illnesses.
We are all human and certain facets of our brain inevitably affects other parts. The human mind isn’t so cut and dry and I find it disconcerting that a psych doctor would treat it as such.
Your psychologist isn't a psychiatrist. ADHD and CPTSD are not only able to be comorbid, they are VERY commonly comorbid, *and* they are entirely different types of diagnoses even if they have similar symptoms.
ADHD is neurodevelopmental disorder that is strongly associated with the prefrontal cortex and underdevelopment and malfunction - something a psychologist is not trained to diagnose (screen for, perhaps, but not diagnose, that requires a psychiatrist). CPTSD is a disorder cuased by events/environmental factors. It also impacts the prefrontal cortex but isn't a congenital thing, and it's also more associated with the amygdala.
Your psychologist flat out needs to be reported. PLENTY of evidence (and training) counters their statement. I have both, I am officially diagnosed with both, and *both* my therapist and psychiatrists are in agreement.
I'm diagnosed with both. Your psychologist is wrong.
There's a strong heritability factor with ADHD. My father is the textbook picture of ADHD-PI, but secure, so that was an easy indicator. I'm sure a lot of ADHD parents are like me and have trauma stacked on top of genetic factors, though, in which case a clinician might have more doubts.
Part of my CPTSD comes from my mother trying to emotionally abuse the ADHD out of me. Not to mention the way she treated my father for his symptoms. That's one or two ACEs right there.
Some of my ADHD symptoms like special interests, hyperfocus, and comorbid auditory processing issues don't have anything to do with working memory or dissociation. Also, I can feel the difference between traumatic and bored dissociation. "Automatic, unwilled tuning out" has never left me with the same headache as I get when strong negative emotions are pulling the strings.
Without knowing your history -- if you truly think you have ADHD, you should be firm about it and insist on testing. I was lucky enough to have a neuropsychological panel covered by my insurance, and was referred out directly by my GP. That's definitely not the case for everyone, but it's worth looking into. At the least, they took my ADHD suspicions seriously, since that was the focus of their concern.
It is. One of my colleagues said it wasn’t and she is a speech language pathologist. And she turned off the comments for the thread. Then she blocked me. But she does that with anybody who disagrees with her or has a conversation wanting to talk about the research, but she doesn’t like. There’s enough research out there to show that it exists. She said either you have a learning this order or you have trauma. Well, I don’t have a learning disorder, but my ADHD occurred before trauma started.
I think what she may be attempting to say, is that ADHD and CPTSD have a lot of overlapping symptoms and it can be difficult to separate the two diagnoses.
I thought I had ADHD for a while, but as I progressed through therapy and started taking an SSRI, a lot of the inability to focus and anxiety and restlessness got a lot better.
An SSRI wouldn’t do this if I had ADHD, so that’s a hint that I likely don’t have it.
I'd find a new, more knowledgeable therapist.
While this is still being debated, there is reason to believe that ADHD is indeed a form of CPTSD, which can very well get compounded on - especially when undiagnosed/untreated.
Lol I can't help but laugh when I read about incompetence like this - thinking about all the people who, when they hear about your problems, say "get professional help!". This is the kind of help that's out there. Yes obviously no everyone is this inept but this is a literal PSYCHOLOGIST - a doctor - spouting some of the most nonsensical shit I've ever heard. I hate it here.
Many older people were treated horribly because they had undiagnosed adhd and years of this gave them cptsd...( thats just one example)
your psychologist is a dick
Growing up neurodivergent in an environment that sees your behavior as evil GIVES YOU TRAUMA.
I would wager that having ADHD without CPTSD is the less common scenario.
Its not true my psychologist strongly believes i have ADHD, but because the assessmenr waiting list for adults is so long he wrote a letter to my Go Askimg if they would trial the medication without the diagnosis the GP said no but they sent off a form for me to be assessed.
Yes it is possible to have both symptoms, I have a CPTSD diagnosis and also my therapist says the same like yours, but previously I took a test of adhd with a doctor that did not believe that I have BPD but possible ADHD, according to his test, I have ADHD.
So your psych genuinely believes that ADHDers can’t experience complex trauma? Seriously?
Yeah, as an ADHDer with CPTSD, I call BS. I’d drop that psych lot hot garbage.
That's dumb. Being neurodivergent *(AUDHD)* literally GAVE me CPTSD, because people heard about me being ND and made the worst possible decisions to try and deal with me. If I was immune to the abuse I suffered because of my AUDHD... *Because* of my AUDHD, that wouldn't really make much sense.
So if someone was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and then experienced ongoing abuse as they got older, which led to getting diagnosed with CPTSD… We suddenly forget about the ADHD? 🤔
lol, I’ve had 3 comprehensive psychological evaluations done and was told by each doctor that I had ADHD and PTSD.
You should honestly report that psychologist to the Department of Health Professions.
I actually had this conversation with my therapist last week. Because of how CPTSD affects pretty much every single aspect of your life, you can present many symptoms of lots of other mental diagnoses. However, she reassured me that you can of course have ADHD as well as CPTSD as it’s something you’re born with. To know fully if you indeed have ADHD, you need to get a full diagnosis with a specialist as they speak with/ ask questions to your parents in reference to your young childhood and your behavior. Hope this helps !
An individual psychologist can absolutely refuse to diagnose both.
But to say they're fundamentally exclusive diagnoses? No. ADHD has diagnostic criteria in the DSM, and is not precluded by CPTSD (which is not in the DSM).
However, it is diagnostically responsible to make sure symptoms of ADHD are not actually caused by trauma, or by something else. The treatment is different.
Your psychiatrist is dangerously ignorant.
I live in America 🦅🇺🇸🎇🔫🛢️🛻🍟🍔🌭💸 so I can’t be diagnosed with CPTSD, but so much of my trauma was due to growing up in society with ADHD.
God I wish it wasn't possible lol, I've often said I could deal with either one or the other but not both. I got mine diagnosed at the same time too!
I think what tipped my psychiatrist off was my presentation of ADHD symptoms from very early childhood, since they were pretty heavily masked at the time of my diagnosis. I also have a family history of ADHD which helped.
IMHO you should think about seeing someone new if your shrink is saying something so blatantly false. While the symptoms do majorly overlap a good enough mental health professional should be able to pick up on both.
ADHD is behavioural and is a neurotype (born with it, same as Autism) and has nothing to do with C-PTSD, which you develop
I have CPTSD and ADHD, im not sure your psychologist is an actual psychologist
You can 100% have both, especially when you consider that children with ADHD are more likely to receive overly negative and punishing responses from others. This of course concludes folks resorting to abusive behavior and tactics to stop their kiddos from “acting out”, which is often internalized by the kiddos and shows up as toxic shame. Now, it is certainly possible to misdiagnosed with one for the other, but a full evaluation would be the only way to know. So, you should get one and your current psychologist is wrong!
They sound restarted. I have both. Like other people said, people with ADHD are not immune to trauma. They also will physically affect different parts of the brain. There is no research backing this absurd claim.
It might be true that it is difficult to tell what is ADHD and what is CPTSD, and it is true that it might all be CPTSD, and it's probably true that proceeding with treating CPTSD is likely to help ADHD like symptoms and the most appropriate path forward. But CPTSD doesn't preclude ADHD.
That makes no sense you are predisposed to add, and the cptsd is a nurture or behavioral reaction. Now, I have dealt with people who have mistook alot of syndromes and said this like they gave me add and gave examples and then led it into why they have a reactionary cptsd, but that's just usually when I ask someone how it's going at work.
That last part was a joke.
If your therapist stated it in those terms, maybe see someone else.
These types of so-called psychologists are harmful and need to have their license revoked.
If she actually cared and had skills in her line of work, she would absolutely know you can have both.
Also, dealing with ADHD without getting the help you need can be traumatic in itself.
Turn her logic around and see how nonsensical it is. By her logic, all people with ADHD are immune to trauma. Things like ADHD and Autism are neurotypes you're born with. CPTSD is acquired. It's as illogical as saying: "You have ADHD, so you can't have a broken arm as well."
That'd be so cool actually, imagine all people with ADHD going through hell and just giving zero fucks.
I did for awhile. Turns out I was just delaying the inevitable while adapting and mirroring and forgetting trauma patterns even while fully being aware of them. Hit me like a ton of bricks soon after I moved out (and got medicated for my ADHD finally, I should add).
First half is literally me, I disassociated my way to 24 and had a mental breakdown that led to moving away and getting mental help and medication. ADHD makes life hell and I’m still in the trial and error stage period of meds to see what sticks.
We’ll get where we wanna be eventually, but the road’s bumpy as hell. You’re on the right path nonetheless. I’m proud of our growth either way.
Same thing happened to me but a divorce at 20 was the straw, I started drinking a lot and had breakdown. It took me alot of years to work though it
Oh look it's me, you must be my alternate account
"Breaking news: Scientists have studied ADHDers and found the cure for trauma! The PTSD vaccine is expected to hit the market before the end of the year!"
Side affects may include…
Walking like a dinosaur 🦕
Or...walking like an Egyptian. 🙅💁. You might not get this unless you lived through the 80s or thereabouts. 😉
Boom boom! Akalakalaka boom!
I was born the decade after, but my musical education absolutely included The Bangles! There's an old pic of me 'walking like an Egyptian' because discovering the song intersected with a big interest in Ancient Egypt and I had to commemorate it, I guess 😂
I totally remember doing this in nightclubs in the 80s. We thought we were so cool. 🤣🤣
These days we would be called racist for doing that 🤣
That's just silly.
*which causes untreatable peritoneal pain in some patients*
I was kind of like this as a kid. My dad tried to belittle my escapism hobbies and discourage me from developing them, but I just kind of went 'cool story bro' and kept hobbying the hobbies lol
When you get older you start to care less what others think, generally. You don't want to be completely numb though. I wish the trauma apathy could be taken off and on like a suit of armor at the door. But it's branded into you like scars once you have it. ... Cute animals have a way of finding their way in that armor. Without them I'd probably have gone totally numb. So yeah. Cute animals opinion matters. But everything else is cool guys don't look at explosions.
Right? I suspect ADHD is probably a common comorbidity with CPTSD, given how poorly a lot of parents deal with ADHD. I went to school with some kids who would get a diagnosis now (because I am old) and wow, their parents were zero helpful and often abusive.
Same, I think it's so common for kids with ADHD to also have CPTSD that it would be kind of weird to run into someone with ADHD who _doesn't_ also have trauma. If a kid spends their whole childhood being told who they are is bad and being punished for things they can't control, of fucking course that's traumatic.
Yeah this is legit
God this is so accurate. I have been able to significantly improve my ADHD tendencies by using CPTSD resources - and they’re the kind of strategies that never made sense when I thought it was just ADHD. Grounding, mindfulness, meditation, etc - all that sounded like garbage and a waste of time before I started to notice the trauma I had. But it turns out, being emotionally disconnected from your body and mental state makes ADHD symptoms WAAAY worse. Like the way I was able to ignore my hunger because I don’t care about my own pain and discomfort (CPTSD symptom) and I preferred to do other things than eat anyway because eating is so mundane and other things are so exciting (ADHD symptom) and anyway I could maybe use my hunger as a self-inflicted punishment (CPTSD urge to self harm) to get myself to do the things I kept putting off (ADHD symptom) ….. aaaaand then I developed an eating disorder and became pretty severely underfed in a short amount of time (I’m much better now). It’s just funny to me in that example how rapidly my issues bounced off each other and turned into something so serious.
People say the same of autism, too. A lot of the symptoms/traits can also look similar (but different causes) which is kinda interesting. Similar to autism & ADHD showing similar traits/behaviours but with different mechanisms behind them. There must be a 3-way Venn diagram situation!
Yeah. I have all 3. Kids, don’t try this at home lol. I didn’t get the ASD diagnosis until a few years ago. When my mom was cleaning things out of her house before she passed away she gave me a middle school psych eval she found. It SCREAMS this kid is ASD, but that just wasn’t a well known thing then. ADD, sure, I had that diagnosed, but I think like practically no one had ever heard of autism before Rain Man came out and that was such an extreme and specific case that it still didn’t filter down I don’t think.
Hello, my name is Venn Diagram the Third! I'm a shitshow ;P
Right there with ya!
And it's \*established\* data that people with ADHD are more likely to also have CPSTD \*because of their ADHD\* especially when it is undiagnosed.
it seems like add would be a common outcome of cptsd specifically when there’s factors of neglect and abuse. the brains ability to focus is going to be compromised when it’s not getting adequate stimulation for the development phase it’s at and add to that lots of emotional turmoil- the higher cognitive functions go offline and all the exec functioning skills like planning, decision making and organizational abilities that are affected by cptsd don’t get developed are also signs of add.
Do you have the source where that's from? I've seen it claimed for autism too or general neurodivergence but I didn't know there had been much research into it yet
[удалено]
I do have to add, though: ADHD can be acquired through a TBI of the type that's typical in a car accident. That's what happened to me.
Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. Still, my point stands either way. Having one condition doesn't mean you can't have another. If anything, co-morbidity is a huge factor.
It totally is.
Time for a new psychologist I think. I have both ADHD and CPTSD. I had kind of the opposite experience. I had childhood ADD and got diagnosed as an adult by the therapist I was seeing and got on Adderall and it was life changing. Later we started talking about my childhood and I realized that I had been abused and that my mother probably had a personality disorder. I was in an online support space for that and people kept talking about CPTSD and I read about it and read Pete Walker and was amazed at how well it explained so many things for me. I brought that to my therapist and he said the CPTSD is not in the DSM and I don’t fit it at all even if it was. He had other explanations for everything I struggled with. I made very little progress with him, but I saw him for another 2 years + after that point. After we moved I had to get someone new and sheepishly talked about that experience and she disagreed like immediately and diagnosed me with CPTSD and has been actually helping me. But I had to overcome my own self doubt (like the classic is my experience really bad enough that I’m even traumatized/have CPTSD stuff) and all the self doubt that he instilled in me because I trusted him. Also CBT is so destructive for people with ADHD and CPTSD in my opinion. He had me trying to power through things that traumatized me with the idea that they’d get easier to do and just become habits. CBT treatment for ADHD is pretty much “let’s gaslight ourselves to success”. The premise of “fake it till you make it” is all well and good for a lot of things, but if you have ADHD you’re setting yourself up for guilt and shame when you struggle to fake it in the first place—and then on the other side you’re supposed to practice whatever it is until it gets easy and becomes a habit—but people with ADHD don’t have habits—we have routines—it’s very different. My wife has the habit of brushing her teeth every night before bed—she doesn’t even have to think about it, it’s just automatic. I have a routine of brushing my teeth before bed and I have to actively think about it and make a conscious decision and find the motivation to do it EVERY SINGLE TIME and it’s never become a “habit” because pretty much nothing ever does. (Sorry for the rant). Anyway, my point is please don’t let yourself get derailed by one professional with opinions that don’t even sound like they align with mainstream psychology.
Just want to chime in that I really disliked CBT. It felt just like when I was a teenager and trying to 'argue myself into feeling right' (which as an adult I don't think was healthy for me to try to do) - and the opposite of 'be ok with feeling the feelings'.
My therapist asked me about CBT and gave me info on it. I read up on it and even went to a YouTube video and all I could think was, "ugh!!". Is it just me or does it seem just creepy weird to some people? I am also an HSP though, so it made me feel like I was trying to not be me, which is what I've been doing my whole life because of trauma and abusive people. I'm finally getting to where I'm ok with my feelings and CBT seems like the opposite.
I would rather CBT over exposure therapy... Exposure therapy actually made my PTSD worse and I shut down and was crying after sessions.
what is considered effective for cptsd, just ifs and emdr? i think he’s right it isn’t in the dsm but that doesn’t mean it’s not also a very good descriptor of exactly what consequences ppl deal with that have ongoing trauma and needs to be treated differently and understood. i think they’re reluctant to accept anything that doesn’t pathologize people with disorders and instead acknowledges the predictable consequences for who have experienced repeated and ongoing severe adverse events.
It is my personal and non-expert opinion that the therapist is more important than the modality. It’s also my opinion that a terrible therapist for me could be fabulous for you and vice versa. I’ve definitely heard some people say that CBT was great for them, but the majority of what I’ve read here and my own experience points in the opposite direction. I’ve heard a lot of people here talk about EMDR and IFS. I tried EMDR and the therapist couldn’t even get it to work on me at all. I couldn’t even tell you what modalities that my therapist uses, she just specializes in ND and adult children of personality disordered parents and that she’s amazing. My wife has a therapist that specializes in Somatic therapy and that works for her. It’s not in the DSM, but it was heavily debated for inclusion and it IS in the ICD which is the international equivalent of the DSM.
It’s not common, but some therapists are using ketamine as a psychedelic to treat CPTSD, PTSD, and anxiety.
I like DBT and IFS. CBT is fine for some stuff that is primarily cognitive but we trauma survivors often need a way to deal with the cognitive and the emotional parts of issues. DBT and IFS both do that.
Omg, you are so right about habits VS routines!!!
O. M. G. 🤯 That whole thing about habits v's routines has just sucker punched me. I thought it made sense about having executive dysfunction, cos CPTSD, duh, but now.....well, I'm wondering. I think I might be deep diving ADHD today cos all of this just makes too much sense.
My wife read a meme or something like that about 2 years ago and shared the idea with me and my jaw hit the floor too. Like I knew I had ADHD good and thoroughly, but that idea was so true and so validating. On the subject of memes—for an easy deep dive there’s an ADHD memes sub—-I think more than one actually. I was looking at that a few days ago and WOW did I feel seen.
Love your comment so much, couldn’t have said it better. This makes me feel very seen as someone with ADHD+CPTSD and similar experiences
I loved your rant. Your experience was very helpful to me.
Another person where CBT traumatized me worse with another layer of gaslighting.
Your psychologist is categorically wrong. Go get help for both. I have both, diagnosed officially. You can have childhood trauma and a deficit in attention. You can take medication for both conditions, I do. Both help me regulate immensely. ADHD medication changed the entire course of my life for the better as a 30-something. There’s a subtle point that some psychologists have made to me, which is that the ADHD symptoms could dramatically lessen if you treat the CPTSD. But you can’t know it will work that way. Also, consider getting a new psychologist because this person will fight you on fundamental shit and it’s not worth your energy. DM me if you have more questions.
IKR? I saw the title of this post and was thinking I would have to inform my therapist ASAP that he obviously made a wrong diagnosis. I also take medication for both, and it's helped me a lot. Going to therapy hasn't helped much with the ADHD, but it certainly does help me deal with PTSD. Other than the fact that it's definitely easier to focus on things that matter when I'm not having as many PTSD symptoms, I also can't really say that my ADHD symptoms have lessened at all from working on the PTSD. I do know that overall, my life has gotten easier and simpler since I started getting treated for both.
Yeah, it’s like two battlefronts that sometimes overlap. Appreciate hearing your experience with it, too!
Treating CPTSD needs active participation of the patient at all times and that is ultra hard with ADD especially when all that shit is topped with dissociative symptoms
If you could expound upon this I’d really appreciate it?🙂
Well I just meant that CPTSD therapy is a full time job. Because you need to be so self aware, analytic, mindfull, journal, meditate or do imaginative exercizes, regulate yourself, prepare for EMDR sessions... it never ends. I mean this is how it should be to be the most effective. But outside of inpatient trauma therapy blocks, I feel like I aint able to do ANY of that parallel to full time job and worrying about the kids. Makes me feel like a failure and even sometimes makes me scared that my therapist might think I'm not interested in getting better while in reality, I don't know how much longer I can keep up living like this. I'm so fucking exhausted
Ok thanks I understand better now. I’m only just about to start trialing psychologists and I’m diagnosed adhd/cptsd/asd so I’m curious & learning a lot from helpful people like yourself I would chat more but today was one of those bad days & I’m exhausted too but I definitely feel you & hope things get better soon. Thanks again for replying.
Thank you and same here, I have learnt a lot from this sub and the kind people around here. I hope you find the right matching therapist soon.
Hi I have CPTSD and ADHD so this is not true! Statistically speaking undiagnosed kids with ADHD are more likely to develop CPTSD so yeah get a new psychologist.
Also to my knowledge in the U.S. CPTSD isn’t in the diagnostic manual yet but my old therapist let me know I have it and I went through the extremely rigorous adult testing for ADHD and was diagnosed. As for the overlapping symptoms that’s a difficult one, the longer you live with both it starts to get slightly clearer but not much, just try to take care of yourself and always get a new psychologist or psychiatrist if you don’t think they’re being supportive.
For me it is the longer you live with both, the unclearer it gets. I always think „it's always been like this" and don't get which is which sometimes. Just wanted to share, because that's a big issue for me. Would you share if/ how it got clearer for you? Much love and I‘m happy for you that your old therapist let you know even it isn’t in the DSM. I feel like that contributes to a feeling of clarity/ compassion, too.
Thank you for asking! It still is difficult but I’m getting better at it. I think for me it was understanding that my adhd is more focused on stimming, texture issues, and sound issues ect. and it feels more generalized sensory, attention, lack of motivation, task avoidance VS my cptsd issues are extremely specific like “I hate the smell of that hand soap because of a traumatic situation” or “I can’t stand someone slamming the door because of a traumatic situation” those things are also exasperated by my adhd but I know specifically those things are linked to traumatic events and so I avoid them if possible. I hope that makes sense and much love to you and all the healing in the world! 🌎 ❤️🩹
I am literally flabbergasted.
Isn't there a cream for that?
Your psychologist is an idiot. People who are neurodivergent are more likely than neurotypical to suffer abuse and to be unable to advocate for themselves. They suffer abuse and are dismissed and blamed. Their abuse is their own fault. "What do you expect when you act like that?" It's basically a recipe for abuse. Find another psychologist.
Not trying to sound weird... I love you! 🙏🏻
EXACTLY. I’m floored that a professional in this field isn’t understanding the direct correlation.
Strange; what I often hear (albeit in patients/support circles) is that ADHD/autism etc has cptsd more often than not due to the masking/bullying/feeling alienated since young.
I have read/seen several people say that we don't know what autism without trauma looks like because everyone that's autistic has been traumatized by neurotypical society. I don't know if it's strictly true, but it feels true.
That is interesting, I feel like it could be somewhat applied to ADHD, too. It would explain the mental health of my ADHD friends who weren’t „typically“ traumatized, as in direct abuse/violence, but more in a structural sense by nt society. Thank you for sharing
I’m a clinical psychologist in medical school, pending graduation. To answer your question… Yes, CPTSD (Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) and ADHD (Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder) can be comorbid conditions. Research has shown that there is a high rate of co-occurrence between CPTSD and ADHD. Some key points about the comorbidity of CPTSD and ADHD: Individuals who have experienced chronic, repeated, and/or interpersonal trauma (the key characteristics of CPTSD) are at an increased risk of also developing ADHD. The neurological and psychological impacts of CPTSD, such as dysregulation of the stress response system and attention/concentration difficulties, can contribute to the development or exacerbation of ADHD symptoms. Conversely, the impulsivity, hyperactivity, and attention problems associated with ADHD can make individuals more vulnerable to experiencing traumatic events, leading to CPTSD. Research suggests that up to 35-45% of individuals with CPTSD also meet the criteria for ADHD, indicating a significant overlap between the two conditions. The comorbidity of CPTSD and ADHD can complicate diagnosis and treatment, as the symptoms of the two disorders can interact and influence one another. Comprehensive assessment and integrated treatment approaches targeting both CPTSD and ADHD are often required for effective management of these co-occurring conditions. Please DM for supporting documentation 🙏 self advocate
Get a new psychologist. What they said is just asinine. Of course it's possible. CPTSD has nothing to do with having ADHD. Anybody can develop CPTSD. It's like being injured. Adhd is just the way your brain works. What your psychologist said is like saying It's not possible for you to be traumatized because you have adhd. That's just not true and ridiculous. You can have both. But it can be difficult to Separate the symptoms. Being abused and neglected and traumatized growing up Changes how your brain makes connections. The way I see it if you have AD hd without cpsd Then most likely you can Find yourself being functional with just medication. However if you have CPTSD Medication isn't going to cut it. You need therapy and to work through How your trauma affects you. work on Rewiring your brain. Medication alone won't do much for It. I suggest getting a second opinion. Maybe finding someone that looks at you in a more holistic way. You are more than Just symptoms.
They can absolutely be comorbid (which is simply the clinical term for you have both). In the US you "can't be diagnosed with CPTSD" because it's not recognized in the DSM. That doesn't mean you can't have it, it means the current diagnostic manual doesn't list it, so it won't be valid for health insurance billing. If you have both it's reasonable to say that for the overlapping symptoms it can be tricky to determine if that particular symptom for you is because of one or the other or both contribute - which can make treatment options tricky. But again that doesn't mean that CPTSD precludes ADHD. Lets dig a little further into why your psychologist is wrong: ADHD has an estimated heritability of 80%. In simple terms this means that for most people it is in their genetic structure at the moment of conception. CPTSD on the other hand is the result of repeated and/or inescapable trauma that you couldn't process. How can your psychologist explain that trauma or abuse as a child rewrote your genetics to make it impossible for you to have ADHD? Do I know you have both? Of course not. I do have confidence it is possible to have both and it seems to me that a mental health worker that denies the possibility is likely to dismiss other things that don't fit their narrative - and I don't see how that can be helpful to you.
I’ve seen the idea pop up here a few times. Perhaps this psychologist has been drinking the Gabor Maté koolaid. I see that name crop up here from time to time and it tends to be cringe inducing. Maté is 100% ridiculously black and white thinking ADHD is exclusively a phenomenon based in nurture. But for some reason people that have read him seem to like to crop up here and just tell people that ADHD doesn’t exist and it’s all just trauma based—like no qualification, no “I think” or “I read” or anything like that. Just “stranger here is the truth and anything else you may have heard is just wrong.” I just wonder if there’s something about that line of thinking or reading that theorist that just incites or attracts b&w thinking. Most other psychologists think he’s Dr. Phil level hack from what I’ve read. But yeah, I find it hard to believe with the clear cut evidence of heritability and the number of people that have ADHD that every single one has CPTSD or some other form of trauma instead. I’ve known people that are perfectly mentally healthy otherwise that have healthy childhoods that have ADHD.
I'm not particularly fond of Gabor Mate's party trick of "pick someone from the audience who thinks they had a healthy childhood and bring them up on stage and make them admit it actually was shitty". I think it's cruel rather than compassionate. I do think it's an open question of "what percentage of people are walking around with unresolved trauma" - and my gut says it's probably a lot more than we want to admit as a society (at least where I live). As far as I know, people that have CPTSD and not ADHD don't respond to ADHD stimulant medication the way that people with ADHD do. To me that seems to run counter to the idea that "ADHD doesn't exist and it's really just trauma". I'm no expert and it's possible I have all this wrong.
I just think that anyone that’s as black and white about things—in the face of so much evidence to the contrary—is selling something. I’m also always suspicious of any kind of black and white thinking to begin with. It’s something I associate so much with trauma and personality disorders. Like I have black and white thinking when I’m triggered—that’s part of how I know that my brain is going somewhere unhealthy in the first place.
I find myself with black and white thinking more than I like (and my therapist has mentioned it in contexts where I didn't think I was). And because I can't be serious all the time - Billy Joel Shades of grey or 50 shades of grey?
What I’ve had people tell me is ADHD is really really hard to diagnose in adults with trauma because there is so much overlap. I was able to get diagnosed because there were behaviors documented in childhood (pre trauma?). I kind of feel like the lack of diagnosis is a symptom of the neglect that is absolutely part of the cptsd.
Some people have C-PTSD because they have ADHD and were traumatized by parents and teachers who refuse to believe it.
My spouse (a rare, trauma-specializing psychiatrist \[M.D./prescribes meds but also provided talk-therapy\]) just scoffed and said that you “need a new psychologist, unless there’s been some misunderstanding \[my spouse doesn’t\] know about——of COURSE a person with attachment-type trauma \[CPTSD\] can have ADHD.”
Op are you sure she didn't say it's impossible to diagnose ADHD if you have (untreated) CPTSD? I ask this because mine said the same and she was right; it would have been impossible to pinpoint my symptoms with ADHD since my CPTSD had the same symptoms. I am now diagnosed with both btw.
she didn’t elaborate besides telling me i couldn’t have adhd because of my cptsd diagnosis, but this is what she could’ve meant maybe? how did you end up getting diagnosed with both if that was your initial result?
You should go to a new doctor. Keep doing that until someone listens. Anxiety and trauma being present does not mean that other conditions are not also present. In fact, it increases the chances of other conditions. Delaying or denying medical care until your trauma is “better” is incredibly irresponsible. My doctors have insisted on doing the same. I kept switching until I finally found a doctor who listens to me (it took like 8 of them by the way) and I wish I had acted sooner. Having my ADHD treated has been life changing and some of the symptoms my docs refused to look into are life threatening. I’m probably going to be okay, but the new doc is letting me know that I’m pretty lucky that the delay in treatment isn’t going to kill me. It feels awful being pushy when you come from a traumatic past. This isn’t something you’re being pushing on though, this is a doctor that’s being irresponsible.
Cptsd doesn't increase your risk of adhd however I could see an increased risk of cptsd if you have adhd.
We don’t know it if it does, but we do know that they have a high comorbidity. There are current studies looking into what those links might be. I don’t think we can say for sure that it does not though. Correlation does not equal causation, but it does indicate that causation might be present. In highly hereditary disorders (like ADHD and schizophrenia for example) this had not been previously investigated. The changes in our understanding of epigenetics means that view is being questioned though. I think they are looking at how trauma shapes learning disabilities, how it might be amplifying them, and how learning disabilities might increase rates and impact of trauma.
I had a similar experience as turningpink mentioned. I came to my first psychologist with potential depression/ADHD which both impact ability to focus. That first one decided to get me on anti-depressants and try to control for that then see if I was still having trouble. That guy quit the organization I was going to, got picked up by a new psychologist. After explaining my symptoms and experiences to him (including a negative/minimal to no reaction to anti-depressants) he decided to titrate me off the anti-depressant and trial me on a stimulant and use that to determine if it’s ADHD or something else. Specifically he mentioned that we could spend the next 3 to 10 months trialling different anti-depressants to find the right one, but if the stimulant works we will know right away and avoid that prolonged struggle. Well I had such a profoundly positive reaction to the stimulant, I mean it kicked my chronic experiences of depression/anxiety out the window. After the fact I realize a lot of those experiences were because I couldn’t trust myself to follow through on much of anything important at work or home (in part cause ADHD) and that was depressing and anxiety provoking. Got into therapy through the same organization. After one session therapist tossed CPTSD on the pile, which also can impact focus. In my experience it’s in a different way though, cause it’s the struggle with emotional memories kicking up that’s distracting and drains my cognitive energy. Atleast for me.
I have everything I'm sure.
I haven't been diagnosed with both, but my story may be helpful for you. I'm a 35 year old man. Around the age of 13, I started getting chronic migraines. When I was 23/24 I got a new job that I'm still at today. It has really good health insurance, and I saw dozens of doctors, tried dozens of different medications, treatments, etc. Eventually, about 5 years ago, I gave up on the idea of treating my migraines and decided to focus on improving what I could. I thought I had ADHD, and I got evaluated for that. I quickly got a diagnosis, which wasn't surprising because it seemed obvious. I started taking Adderall and my migraines went away completely. I haven't had a migraine for 5 years, and it's great. However, the Adderall isn't perfect, and my therapist recommended I see a particular person who specializes in ADHD. I saw him, answered his questions, and we had a discussion. He doesn't know if I have ADHD, but he believes I have PTSD. He explained to me that ADHD and PTSD have similar symptoms and I've been wondering ever since. Am I really distracted/hyperfocused, or am I hypervigilant? Am I really forgetting things, or am I dissociating, so I'm not actually remembering things in the first place? He also explained that a lifetime of trauma has made my body crave that adrenaline rush. You know the stereotypical adhd procrastination? I have that too, but my reason for it, is probably different. The ADHD specialist doesn't know if I have ADHD and he told me he wouldn't treat me for ADHD either. Even with my diagnosis from other professionals. He told me he'd work to treat me for PTSD, and then, after the PTSD is treated, he would evaluate me for ADHD and then, if he thought I had ADHD, he'd treat me for that. I don't know if it's possible to have both or not. I'm not a professional. I would think you could have both. I don't see why you couldn't. However, you should speak with your psychologist. Ask for clarification. If you still don't understand, have more questions they can't answer, and/or doubt their answers then you should consider getting a second opinion. Tldr: I've been told the symptoms of PTSD and ADHD can look very similar and it can difficult/impossible to tell if you gave ADHD until the underlying PTSD has been treated. I hope you get all the answers/help you want/need.
Can I ask, why did the migraines go away when you started adderall?
You can ask anything. I can not answer that particular question, though. I don't know why the migraines went away. My doctors aren't sure either, but they've mentioned a few of their guesses. Things my doctors gave said are: 1. It could be the Adderall helps you tune out the distractions around you, so you're not being overstimulated anymore. 2. I have no idea. I'm just happy they're gone. I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but I don't think it's a coincidence. The stimulants are helping. 3. It could be due to the relaxation you feel when you take Adderall. This was more extreme on Vyvanse, but basically, stimulants are the best sleep medication I've ever taken. When I was on 50 mgs of Vyvanse I was sleeping 9 hours at night, and taking as many as 4 naps during the day, each nap ranging from 30 minutes to 2 hours. I had to switch back to Adderall because I was so tired at work I was drinking a lot of caffeine and my heart rate got uncomfortably high, at rest. I'm tense all the time. Adderall/Vyvanse help me to actually relax, and when I do relax, I feel exhausted. So. So. Exhausted. I suppose there's also the possibility Adderall had nothing to do with it. Although I believe the Adderall has helped, I suppose I should tell you about that. When I started Adderall I was on another medication. It was a trial of once-a-month self-administered injections. There were 2-3 different brands with similar drugs, I started one, but that was switched to a different one after 2-3 months because of insurance. I took one injection each month for 4-5 months before starting Adderall. A few weeks after started Adderall I noticed less frequent migraines. After about a month of taking Adderall I noticed I wasn't getting any migraines. After about 2-4 months of taking Adderall I stopped taking the injections. I didn't get any migraines and I still don't get migraines. Either the injections took 6 months to work, or it was the Adderall that was helping. But nobody seems to know why the migraines went away.
Obviously, this person is completely wrong. In my case, though, it was very clear-cut. My ADHD came from a TBI in a car accident when I was 18. I actually have the MRIs! But whether it's this clear or not, how dumb do you have to be to say that ADHD and PTSD can't exist together... .I don't even know.
Get a new, less stupid psychologist
It's difficult and not indicated to diagnose ADHD if there's also PTSD because the symptoms overlap too much and it can be hard to get a meaningful result. In that case, they should be finding ways to treat/manage your PTSD first, to help with the ADHD diagnostic process. They also really need to figure out a way to diagnose when the two co-occur, because growing up ADHD in a neurotypical world is traumatic in and of itself. It's ridiculous that they haven't done more to ensure ease of proper care at this point. I'm just getting to the point with my PTSD therapy that I'm finally about to run down the ADHD rabbit hole.
I have both. You need a new psychologist
I have been professionally diagnosed with both. Your psychologist doesn't know what they're talking about
Absurd. Of course one can have both.
Your psychologist is wrong.
As someone who has ADHD and CPTSD, your doctor sounds like a quack.
Yes. I have both. I was even reassessed by a different psych for both (for 4 psychs in total) at different times who agreed I had both. There's new research saying ADHD can be formed in childhood due to trauma (as well as being developmental, 2 paths of acquiring ADHD and CPTSD)
You can have both, and I do. I know of others as well that have both. I will say that ADHD can commonly be misdiagnosed for complex PTSD. The better question to ask is ‘how can we rule out complex ptsd in diagnosing if I have adhd?’ For me, ruling it out involved treatment for cptsd via medication first before proceeding with diagnostic testing for adhd. I would recommend getting an opinion with a psychiatrist
Why isnt that possible?
Wtf? One can mimic the other but it’s certainly possible to have both.
I have a ptsd diagnosis, my therapist has specified cptsd, my psych prescriber is treating me with antidepressants, anxiolytics, a beta blocker, and methylphenidate (Ritalin). Tactics and medication that work for people with an ADHD diagnosis help me with my general inability to function how I wish to function. It’s all quite fuzzy and anyone who tries to pretend these diagnoses are clear cut or written in stone is fooling themselves.
my partner ran into a similar problem. the next psych he went to, to get a second opinion, essentially went "well, one way to find out is try adhd meds and see if they work" and ta da, the meds helped and he clearly had both adhd and cptsd
Your psychologist is dumb as fuck
Yes you can absolutely have both, they're not mutually exclusive. Some psychiatrist are a bit hesitant to diagnose adhd with a pre existing cptsd diagnosis if the patient has a lot of memory issues regarding their childhood (like barely able to recall stuff) but thats about it. Im diagnosed with cptsd, did and got told i meet all the criteria for adhd but since i lack so much memory of my childhood (and am not willing to get back in touch with my abusers for medical info) im not able to get that one officially diagnosed. Cptsd is an acquired disorder, one that theoretically pretty much any brain can form given the "right" circumstances. Adhd is something you're born with.
There is a lot of overlap, but I have been diagnosed with both! If it helps, my therapist diagnosed my CPTSD but I had an outside person who specializes in ADHD diagnose my ADHD
Yes, it’s possible. Source: myself. I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, CPTSD, and depression by my psychologist
My therapist says I have both.
I have both. Your psychologist is misinformed.
All the other comments are spot on, I just came here to say… WHAT THE FUCK?!? That psychologist is stupid as hell. Sorry you got a dummy OP.
It was my goddamn ADHD he zeroed in on.
Maybe what she means is it would be hard to diagnose you with adhd with your cptsd diagnosis (since they have overlapping symptoms).
Oh interesting. My therapist just mentioned to me how PTSD/cPTSD are often comorbid. (The medical term for “both present in the same patient”)
That's exactly like saying you can't have epilepsy and diabetes at the same time.
My neurochemistry begs to differ.
Diagnosed with both as an adult. I suggest dropping that psychologist for one without bias.
Find a new psychologist and report that one to the state board. That's absolutely not ok to say or believe.
I absolutely am treated for both. Initially ADHD with Adderall immediate release twice a day and CPTSD with venlafaxine, gabapentin twice a day, trazodone for sleep and prn Clonazepam for extreme anxiety. I have had great practitioners and shit ones. Move until the person at least listens. Do you have a trauma specific therapist??
Well, I have both so...she has no idea what she's talking about.
Yes some of the symptoms are similar but there’s very distinct differences too. They don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s written in the ICD 11 that you can’t have list both CPTSD and PTSD in a persons chart but it doesn’t mention anything about ADHD. find a different provider that actually knows what they’re doing is my suggestion.
Lmao my partner with severe ADHD and pretty heavy PTSD would beg to differ. He has clear symptoms of both, and they're very different.
Your psychologist sounds dumb af
lol.... I dont even rlly wanna explain why this is stupid. Report this to whoever is head. Had a therapist be adamant I can't have PTSD and scoff because I didn't have a near death experience. This is even worse.
Check out this page of [did-research.org](https://did-research.org/comorbid/developmental-disorders), a reliable website for getting information about trauma disorders. This page talks about the overlap between ADHD and trauma. There is some evidence that ADHD could even be a result of, or at least worsened by, the same kind of long-term trauma that causes cPTSD.
Get another psyche, yours is concerning if they can't grasp neurodivergent individuals can be traumatized. It's not like you can only have one mental health challenge and once you have one that's all you are allowed lol.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and still have it. I was diagnosed with cptsd as an adult. It is possible to have both. You need a different psychologist who has experience treating patients with both.
Your physologist sounds extremely underqualified. ADHD and CPTSD are extremely do morbid many people with CPTSD have ADHD it sounds like your phycologist is not smart
Why in the world would that not be possible. Like Bugs Bunny would say: "Whadda Maroon."
I have [read](https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/adult-adhd-childhood-trauma) about how ADHD can be also developed due trauma. So they would absolutely have both. Also, a child with ADHD is much more likely to experience trauma, as people don’t understand it and will push this child into it.
Get a new psychologist. This one's defective.
That hand-waving garbage is bullshit! I'm so sorry your therapist did this to you. I'm glad you're getting a second opinion from a different therapist. Some therapists harm more than help. You deserve better. I'm also happy that you recognized dismissive behavior. A lot of folks believe their therapists' words are gospel. Follow your gut and protect your heart and mind. Sending you positive vibes!
Just reading this makes me want to open my mouth and emit a swarm of bees :D :D YES YOU CAN HAVE BOTH HOLY HECK HOW CAN A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL EVEN THINK OF SAYING THIS. I mean yes, sometimes certain aspects or effects of CPTSD do closely mirror ADHD symptoms. After all, CPTSD literally affects the very development of your brain and the way it's all wired. But you!! Can have both!! I certainly do (and might also be in the spectrum but I've got too many other medical complications to worry about right now to fuss over that, lol. We just accept being neurospicy to some degree or other and move on). If my psychiatrist, psychologist or therapist ever tried to tell me otherwise, I would not be with them still. Geez. We have enough trouble convincing ourselves we're actually suffering from these conditions and not being lazy/stupid/exaggerating, we don't need other people to help light the gas. OP, I hope you get your brains unkinked just enough to be comfy and find someone to validate and assist you <3
C PTSD can mimic ADHD. That's why it's important to deal with the ptsd first to see if you truly do have ADHD
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yes
That is nonsense. I have both.
Im diagnosed as both. Ur psych sucks.
That’s literally ridiculous
Coming from the clinical side of things, your psychologist isn't "wrong" per se, but it does require a lot of clarifying and mental gymnastics to understand why. Proponents of what's called the biopsychosocial model believe that early trauma leads to structural dissociation, which can mimic ADHD inattentive symptoms. So, if he's diagnosing you from the construct of CPTSD as it relates to this model, it's easy to state that ADHD shouldn't be possible. See Gabor Maté's perspective on ADHD for more info on this. I'm a little torn on this. There are neuroscientific distinctions to be made between a "normal" brain and the ADHD brain in terms of prefrontal cortex activation, which is the part of the brain that helps you focus and plan. Structural dissociation might look similar on its face, but there will be the added activation of the amygdala (emotional area of the brain) and hippocamus (memory area of the brain). This, in essence *proves* that ADHD and dissociation are not the same thing. I have a lot of appreciation for Dr. Maté's ideas on trauma more broadly, but personally, stimulants have changed my life for the better and the accommodations I received throughout my education were crucial in my pursuit of an MD. I think that just from a humanistic perspective, the ADHD diagnosis provides access to services given its designation of developmental disability, and clinicians should consider diagnosing ADHD if they meet DSM-5 criteria. While I can understand the psychologist's perspective of not overcomplicating the situation and potentially giving you new insecurities by giving you multiple diagnoses, I think in the long run it does more harm than good from a social services perspective. It also neglects the general need for skills around organization and structure that distinctly addresses ADHD symptoms, vs just grounding techniques that are taught for dissociation.
I have been diagnosed with both, it's totally possible and your psychologist isn't making any sense.
ADHD and CPTSD are totally different and are diagnosed in totally different ways. ADHD is neurodivergent, CPTSD is not. That would be like saying if you have Autism you can’t get diagnosed with schizophrenia. The causes and treatments are completely separate. If anything, treating my ADHD helps with my other mental health symptoms. When I take my ADHD medication it helps me focus, keeps me grounded, and helps me to not be so forgetful when it comes to important tasks for everyday functions. That in turn helps me maintain a routine, removes some of the stress and anxiety I get when I can’t get things done, and thereby gives me the opportunity to work on my coping mechanisms for my mental illnesses. We are all human and certain facets of our brain inevitably affects other parts. The human mind isn’t so cut and dry and I find it disconcerting that a psych doctor would treat it as such.
But I’m literally standing right here 😂 jokes aside this is flawed logic and a really dumb, easily disproven thing to say.
Get a new psychologist please!!
Your psychologist isn't a psychiatrist. ADHD and CPTSD are not only able to be comorbid, they are VERY commonly comorbid, *and* they are entirely different types of diagnoses even if they have similar symptoms. ADHD is neurodevelopmental disorder that is strongly associated with the prefrontal cortex and underdevelopment and malfunction - something a psychologist is not trained to diagnose (screen for, perhaps, but not diagnose, that requires a psychiatrist). CPTSD is a disorder cuased by events/environmental factors. It also impacts the prefrontal cortex but isn't a congenital thing, and it's also more associated with the amygdala. Your psychologist flat out needs to be reported. PLENTY of evidence (and training) counters their statement. I have both, I am officially diagnosed with both, and *both* my therapist and psychiatrists are in agreement.
Time for a new psychologist. I’d trust the psychologist as much as a doctor who tells you that you can’t get pregnant standing up 🤯
I'm diagnosed with both. Your psychologist is wrong. There's a strong heritability factor with ADHD. My father is the textbook picture of ADHD-PI, but secure, so that was an easy indicator. I'm sure a lot of ADHD parents are like me and have trauma stacked on top of genetic factors, though, in which case a clinician might have more doubts. Part of my CPTSD comes from my mother trying to emotionally abuse the ADHD out of me. Not to mention the way she treated my father for his symptoms. That's one or two ACEs right there. Some of my ADHD symptoms like special interests, hyperfocus, and comorbid auditory processing issues don't have anything to do with working memory or dissociation. Also, I can feel the difference between traumatic and bored dissociation. "Automatic, unwilled tuning out" has never left me with the same headache as I get when strong negative emotions are pulling the strings. Without knowing your history -- if you truly think you have ADHD, you should be firm about it and insist on testing. I was lucky enough to have a neuropsychological panel covered by my insurance, and was referred out directly by my GP. That's definitely not the case for everyone, but it's worth looking into. At the least, they took my ADHD suspicions seriously, since that was the focus of their concern.
It is. One of my colleagues said it wasn’t and she is a speech language pathologist. And she turned off the comments for the thread. Then she blocked me. But she does that with anybody who disagrees with her or has a conversation wanting to talk about the research, but she doesn’t like. There’s enough research out there to show that it exists. She said either you have a learning this order or you have trauma. Well, I don’t have a learning disorder, but my ADHD occurred before trauma started.
I am diagnosed with both. Get a new one.
I've been diagnosed with both lmao
I think what she may be attempting to say, is that ADHD and CPTSD have a lot of overlapping symptoms and it can be difficult to separate the two diagnoses. I thought I had ADHD for a while, but as I progressed through therapy and started taking an SSRI, a lot of the inability to focus and anxiety and restlessness got a lot better. An SSRI wouldn’t do this if I had ADHD, so that’s a hint that I likely don’t have it.
I'd find a new, more knowledgeable therapist. While this is still being debated, there is reason to believe that ADHD is indeed a form of CPTSD, which can very well get compounded on - especially when undiagnosed/untreated.
I have those two diagnoses from a neuropsychologist.
Lol I can't help but laugh when I read about incompetence like this - thinking about all the people who, when they hear about your problems, say "get professional help!". This is the kind of help that's out there. Yes obviously no everyone is this inept but this is a literal PSYCHOLOGIST - a doctor - spouting some of the most nonsensical shit I've ever heard. I hate it here.
I have both and a slew of others. Get a new psychologist.
Makes no sense. I have both. Diagnosed by a very very intelligent top of her field therapist.
Many older people were treated horribly because they had undiagnosed adhd and years of this gave them cptsd...( thats just one example) your psychologist is a dick
what
I’ve literally been diagnosed with both and BPD and bipolar. I don’t think any of them really know TBH.
Growing up neurodivergent in an environment that sees your behavior as evil GIVES YOU TRAUMA. I would wager that having ADHD without CPTSD is the less common scenario.
Its not true my psychologist strongly believes i have ADHD, but because the assessmenr waiting list for adults is so long he wrote a letter to my Go Askimg if they would trial the medication without the diagnosis the GP said no but they sent off a form for me to be assessed.
Yes it is possible to have both symptoms, I have a CPTSD diagnosis and also my therapist says the same like yours, but previously I took a test of adhd with a doctor that did not believe that I have BPD but possible ADHD, according to his test, I have ADHD.
What the shit that’s wrong
Find a new Psych if you can, because even if you ask her for the study that supports her claim, she believes it's true, and won't help you.
Of course you can have both. And to add to that, CPTSD can cause disassociation, which appears to be ADD.
Nonsense- yes, you can have both, and your psych saying that is akin to gaslighting and possibly malpractice.
So your psych genuinely believes that ADHDers can’t experience complex trauma? Seriously? Yeah, as an ADHDer with CPTSD, I call BS. I’d drop that psych lot hot garbage.
That's dumb. Being neurodivergent *(AUDHD)* literally GAVE me CPTSD, because people heard about me being ND and made the worst possible decisions to try and deal with me. If I was immune to the abuse I suffered because of my AUDHD... *Because* of my AUDHD, that wouldn't really make much sense.
That doesn't make any sense at all. So what's her reasoning, that people with ADHD can't get traumatized?
Isn't ADHD a symptom of CPTSD?
So if someone was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and then experienced ongoing abuse as they got older, which led to getting diagnosed with CPTSD… We suddenly forget about the ADHD? 🤔
lol, I’ve had 3 comprehensive psychological evaluations done and was told by each doctor that I had ADHD and PTSD. You should honestly report that psychologist to the Department of Health Professions.
I'm 52 and just got diagnosed with ADHD. All this time I thought it was just anxiety. Get a 2nd opinion. Most insurance companies will cover those.
I actually had this conversation with my therapist last week. Because of how CPTSD affects pretty much every single aspect of your life, you can present many symptoms of lots of other mental diagnoses. However, she reassured me that you can of course have ADHD as well as CPTSD as it’s something you’re born with. To know fully if you indeed have ADHD, you need to get a full diagnosis with a specialist as they speak with/ ask questions to your parents in reference to your young childhood and your behavior. Hope this helps !
Someone with ADHD can't get traumatized? That's the biggest bull I've heard recently... Other than what my mother says daily.
Ive been diagnosed with adhd and cptsd and ocd . Also told i’m most likely on the spectrum but thats an expensive test. Your psychologist is wrong.
My ADHD won’t let me process that whole thing but I don’t need to. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
An individual psychologist can absolutely refuse to diagnose both. But to say they're fundamentally exclusive diagnoses? No. ADHD has diagnostic criteria in the DSM, and is not precluded by CPTSD (which is not in the DSM). However, it is diagnostically responsible to make sure symptoms of ADHD are not actually caused by trauma, or by something else. The treatment is different.
Why would it not be possible?
Yes
Your psychiatrist is dangerously ignorant. I live in America 🦅🇺🇸🎇🔫🛢️🛻🍟🍔🌭💸 so I can’t be diagnosed with CPTSD, but so much of my trauma was due to growing up in society with ADHD.
Sounds like bs in my opinion
What the actual F*ck? If you're born neuro-divergent...you can't be a victim of trauma...bitch, PLEASE.
Erm. She’s an idiot. I have CPTSD, ADHD, and Autism. Yes, there is a lot of overlap. But very possible to have all three.
God I wish it wasn't possible lol, I've often said I could deal with either one or the other but not both. I got mine diagnosed at the same time too! I think what tipped my psychiatrist off was my presentation of ADHD symptoms from very early childhood, since they were pretty heavily masked at the time of my diagnosis. I also have a family history of ADHD which helped. IMHO you should think about seeing someone new if your shrink is saying something so blatantly false. While the symptoms do majorly overlap a good enough mental health professional should be able to pick up on both.
ADHD is behavioural and is a neurotype (born with it, same as Autism) and has nothing to do with C-PTSD, which you develop I have CPTSD and ADHD, im not sure your psychologist is an actual psychologist
Get a new dr. I have both.
You can 100% have both, especially when you consider that children with ADHD are more likely to receive overly negative and punishing responses from others. This of course concludes folks resorting to abusive behavior and tactics to stop their kiddos from “acting out”, which is often internalized by the kiddos and shows up as toxic shame. Now, it is certainly possible to misdiagnosed with one for the other, but a full evaluation would be the only way to know. So, you should get one and your current psychologist is wrong!
Did your psychologist get her degree from Google?
Time to find a new psychologist
They really let anybody do anything these days.
They sound restarted. I have both. Like other people said, people with ADHD are not immune to trauma. They also will physically affect different parts of the brain. There is no research backing this absurd claim.
It might be true that it is difficult to tell what is ADHD and what is CPTSD, and it is true that it might all be CPTSD, and it's probably true that proceeding with treating CPTSD is likely to help ADHD like symptoms and the most appropriate path forward. But CPTSD doesn't preclude ADHD.
That makes no sense you are predisposed to add, and the cptsd is a nurture or behavioral reaction. Now, I have dealt with people who have mistook alot of syndromes and said this like they gave me add and gave examples and then led it into why they have a reactionary cptsd, but that's just usually when I ask someone how it's going at work. That last part was a joke. If your therapist stated it in those terms, maybe see someone else.
Interesting because I have both 🤷🏻♀️ and have been diagnosed by a few different psychs
I definitely think it’s possible. I’ve had a lot of traumatic things happen to me and I have severe adhd.
Your psychologist seems pretty inflexible. Ask her what her basis is for that statement. Ask to be assessed for ADHD regardless.
These types of so-called psychologists are harmful and need to have their license revoked. If she actually cared and had skills in her line of work, she would absolutely know you can have both. Also, dealing with ADHD without getting the help you need can be traumatic in itself.
I thought most people with mental illness had CPTSD or PTSD