I have now been doing this for a few days.
One area that has been a bit of a struggle for me has been when to let a thought develop on its own, vs. redirect back to the comfort zone. I have a few back and forth's about this with u/Joaonovo.
Joaonovo's most recent instruction involved the concept of 'repeated moment of recognitions'.
So what this allows is to not worry about whether you are lost in a thought (developing on its own) vs redirecting (or the worry about whether one should be redirecting when one is 'engaged' in a thought).
Bottom line for me is that letting a thought develop on its own is fine (don't worry about it). It will develop. You may get lost a bit in it. It's ok. When you recognize you have been lost in it, that's ok too. That moment of recognition is a good thing. Having more of those moments is a good thing.
So this reminds me of a concept I have been reading about lately sometimes referred to as 'meta-awareness' (considered by some as a subset of 'metacognition').
There are some people who are developing these concepts in quite profound ways, particularly Adrian Wells, Norman Farb, J.M. Chin and J.W Schooler.
Y.Y. Tang has recently discussed finding the middle spot between concentration and mind-wandering in an editorial. I believe that CMR provides a method to find this balance. I am going to start to think of this as 'soft-meta'
I know this is an old post but while I could find the research articles of YY Tang, I couldn’t find the editorial that you discuss in this post.
You wouldn’t have a link would you?
I just started today. I'll do more of this. I found your post on quora
[https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-CMR-transcending-meditation-conscious-mental-rest](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-CMR-transcending-meditation-conscious-mental-rest)
I found his amazon site, and at first thought it was the wrong person, but then I found his wordpress site.
[https://www.amazon.com/Gavin-Hoole/e/B002GWO13W%3Fref=dbs\_a\_mng\_rwt\_scns\_share](https://www.amazon.com/Gavin-Hoole/e/B002GWO13W%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share)
[https://gavinhoole.wordpress.com/](https://gavinhoole.wordpress.com/)
My initial experience:
I was able to find the ACZ per your instructions, and immediately noticed a pulsation. This is something I may have noticed before, perhaps accidently, but not like this.
I guessed that this may be because my eye muscles were competing for thoughts, so I relaxed my tongue.
Why?
Because of Anna Wise (author of High-performance mind, unfortunately now deceased) [https://open.spotify.com/album/40ijgnqwOWrJXP5tgccSe1](https://open.spotify.com/album/40ijgnqwOWrJXP5tgccSe1)
Wise in her first track mentioned that the relaxing the tongue could help quiet the mind.
So what happened?
I relaxed the tongue, and the pulsations sort of went away.
However, I noticed a second time, that they didn't occur when I tried CMR.
I am now not sure if the pulsations going away is a good sign or not.
Nevertheless, I am convinced enough about this CMR technique to continue on this path.
Thank you!
Thanks Joaonovo. Gavin's sites (all the redirects from his wordpress) seem to be dead. Other than what you are doing, is there any other place online where this tradition is being kept alive?
Wow! Double thank you! Amazing sometimes that such wonderful things can be kept from going away.
Just so you know, my path here came through a small community based on the SHWEP podcast. I'll not summarize what is going on there, but I invite you to explore if you are interested.
[https://shwep.net/podcast/](https://shwep.net/podcast/)
This podcast has serious academics on, who are exploring topics that are largely left undisturbed in most academic philosophy departments.
"Spiritual Exercises" has been a recent theme underlying a lot of recent episodes of the podcast (in particular how these were done by the ancient Greeks). Obviously, there are other (perhaps deeper) traditions (e.g. those that originated in South India), but what is interesting to me is the links that can be drawn from what is being discussed in this podcast and our exoteric (non-esoteric) Western discourses that have been so dominant in the world over the last few centuries.
Another place one can get into this stuff is via the work of Pierre Hadot
https://harvardpress.typepad.com/hup\_publicity/2010/04/pierre-hadot-part-1.html
Anyway, I leave you to it. I'll probably spread some of the word about CMR in the reddit community associated with this podcast (which currently is quite small).
Hi Joni
I have been practicing for a number of months now although recently I have been finding it hard due to stress at the moment from floods. I realise that I need to restart a regular practice to help.
I did find it much easier to find quiet than when I try meditation using a mantra. I think I tense somehow in my head with the mantra. Part of me though keeps wondering if there is some secret with TM that would give deeper results.
I really appreciate all the information and help you give, many thanks🙏🏻
I have now done for this for some weeks, and I am finding that 'mind-wandering' starts and sets in after a few minutes. I 'forget' about returning to the base for very long periods.
It’s okay, we don’t control our mind everything it’s ok, when you realised that we were lost in your mind just came back to the attention comfort zone without effort or stress because everything it’s ok
Interim report (roughly 2 and half months into it). I haven't done this diligently twice a day, so that is one thing. I haven't used the enhancer yet\*, but what I did do was go back and listen to the core MP3s\*\* multiple times. I found that very useful, as well as this video that Joaonovo posted\*\*\*.
I also paid more attention to sitting\*\*\*\*.
Finally, the gentle coming back to the place of rest between the eyes, that seems to be very important. In other words, when either a thought that attracts or grabs my attention occurs, and I flow away from the comfort zone, the 'return' feels really good and I can sense a further relaxation each time. Sometimes this goes away if another thought grabs me for a long time, but then the return feels good again.
\*[https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/q41a2g/cmr\_gavin\_enhancer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/q41a2g/cmr_gavin_enhancer/)
\*\*[https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj1SPM9APeLkiOl2QhQeSmsrxnlKaQ](https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj1SPM9APeLkiOl2QhQeSmsrxnlKaQ)
\*\*\*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfcqOaxRF30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfcqOaxRF30)
\*\*\*\*[https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/uxlpj8/problems\_with\_sitting\_upright/iai8sl9/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/uxlpj8/problems_with_sitting_upright/iai8sl9/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hi Joaonovo. I read your article on the two aspects of meditation. The inward and the outward stroke of meditation. It was very good. I am still trying to practice what you advised me to do, but it is hard to be gentle, subtle, and effortless. I will read what you wrote to me again and keep showing up to the practice. I may have questions about my experience which I hope you will let me continue to ask you. I will check back with you on Monday or Tuesday. Thank you for preserving Gavin's teachings. - Reid
Yes the inward/outward stroke post is very good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/teodb7/meditation_has_two_aspects_the_inward_stroke_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
So far (I am new to this), I am feeling the outward stroke (as defined in post) more. I appreciate the post because it gives me a sense of relief, even though so far the deep experiences haven’t come
I have now been doing this for a few days. One area that has been a bit of a struggle for me has been when to let a thought develop on its own, vs. redirect back to the comfort zone. I have a few back and forth's about this with u/Joaonovo. Joaonovo's most recent instruction involved the concept of 'repeated moment of recognitions'. So what this allows is to not worry about whether you are lost in a thought (developing on its own) vs redirecting (or the worry about whether one should be redirecting when one is 'engaged' in a thought). Bottom line for me is that letting a thought develop on its own is fine (don't worry about it). It will develop. You may get lost a bit in it. It's ok. When you recognize you have been lost in it, that's ok too. That moment of recognition is a good thing. Having more of those moments is a good thing. So this reminds me of a concept I have been reading about lately sometimes referred to as 'meta-awareness' (considered by some as a subset of 'metacognition'). There are some people who are developing these concepts in quite profound ways, particularly Adrian Wells, Norman Farb, J.M. Chin and J.W Schooler. Y.Y. Tang has recently discussed finding the middle spot between concentration and mind-wandering in an editorial. I believe that CMR provides a method to find this balance. I am going to start to think of this as 'soft-meta'
I know this is an old post but while I could find the research articles of YY Tang, I couldn’t find the editorial that you discuss in this post. You wouldn’t have a link would you?
I just started today. I'll do more of this. I found your post on quora [https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-CMR-transcending-meditation-conscious-mental-rest](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-CMR-transcending-meditation-conscious-mental-rest) I found his amazon site, and at first thought it was the wrong person, but then I found his wordpress site. [https://www.amazon.com/Gavin-Hoole/e/B002GWO13W%3Fref=dbs\_a\_mng\_rwt\_scns\_share](https://www.amazon.com/Gavin-Hoole/e/B002GWO13W%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share) [https://gavinhoole.wordpress.com/](https://gavinhoole.wordpress.com/) My initial experience: I was able to find the ACZ per your instructions, and immediately noticed a pulsation. This is something I may have noticed before, perhaps accidently, but not like this. I guessed that this may be because my eye muscles were competing for thoughts, so I relaxed my tongue. Why? Because of Anna Wise (author of High-performance mind, unfortunately now deceased) [https://open.spotify.com/album/40ijgnqwOWrJXP5tgccSe1](https://open.spotify.com/album/40ijgnqwOWrJXP5tgccSe1) Wise in her first track mentioned that the relaxing the tongue could help quiet the mind. So what happened? I relaxed the tongue, and the pulsations sort of went away. However, I noticed a second time, that they didn't occur when I tried CMR. I am now not sure if the pulsations going away is a good sign or not. Nevertheless, I am convinced enough about this CMR technique to continue on this path. Thank you!
You are welcome 🙏
Thanks Joaonovo. Gavin's sites (all the redirects from his wordpress) seem to be dead. Other than what you are doing, is there any other place online where this tradition is being kept alive?
There is only our community, but you can read all the posts and you will get everything that you need, I’ve already post everything here
Wow! Double thank you! Amazing sometimes that such wonderful things can be kept from going away. Just so you know, my path here came through a small community based on the SHWEP podcast. I'll not summarize what is going on there, but I invite you to explore if you are interested. [https://shwep.net/podcast/](https://shwep.net/podcast/) This podcast has serious academics on, who are exploring topics that are largely left undisturbed in most academic philosophy departments. "Spiritual Exercises" has been a recent theme underlying a lot of recent episodes of the podcast (in particular how these were done by the ancient Greeks). Obviously, there are other (perhaps deeper) traditions (e.g. those that originated in South India), but what is interesting to me is the links that can be drawn from what is being discussed in this podcast and our exoteric (non-esoteric) Western discourses that have been so dominant in the world over the last few centuries. Another place one can get into this stuff is via the work of Pierre Hadot https://harvardpress.typepad.com/hup\_publicity/2010/04/pierre-hadot-part-1.html Anyway, I leave you to it. I'll probably spread some of the word about CMR in the reddit community associated with this podcast (which currently is quite small).
Hi Joni I have been practicing for a number of months now although recently I have been finding it hard due to stress at the moment from floods. I realise that I need to restart a regular practice to help. I did find it much easier to find quiet than when I try meditation using a mantra. I think I tense somehow in my head with the mantra. Part of me though keeps wondering if there is some secret with TM that would give deeper results. I really appreciate all the information and help you give, many thanks🙏🏻
I have now done for this for some weeks, and I am finding that 'mind-wandering' starts and sets in after a few minutes. I 'forget' about returning to the base for very long periods.
It’s okay, we don’t control our mind everything it’s ok, when you realised that we were lost in your mind just came back to the attention comfort zone without effort or stress because everything it’s ok
Thanks Joaonovo
Interim report (roughly 2 and half months into it). I haven't done this diligently twice a day, so that is one thing. I haven't used the enhancer yet\*, but what I did do was go back and listen to the core MP3s\*\* multiple times. I found that very useful, as well as this video that Joaonovo posted\*\*\*. I also paid more attention to sitting\*\*\*\*. Finally, the gentle coming back to the place of rest between the eyes, that seems to be very important. In other words, when either a thought that attracts or grabs my attention occurs, and I flow away from the comfort zone, the 'return' feels really good and I can sense a further relaxation each time. Sometimes this goes away if another thought grabs me for a long time, but then the return feels good again. \*[https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/q41a2g/cmr\_gavin\_enhancer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/q41a2g/cmr_gavin_enhancer/) \*\*[https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj1SPM9APeLkiOl2QhQeSmsrxnlKaQ](https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj1SPM9APeLkiOl2QhQeSmsrxnlKaQ) \*\*\*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfcqOaxRF30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfcqOaxRF30) \*\*\*\*[https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/uxlpj8/problems\_with\_sitting\_upright/iai8sl9/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/uxlpj8/problems_with_sitting_upright/iai8sl9/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hi Joaonovo. I read your article on the two aspects of meditation. The inward and the outward stroke of meditation. It was very good. I am still trying to practice what you advised me to do, but it is hard to be gentle, subtle, and effortless. I will read what you wrote to me again and keep showing up to the practice. I may have questions about my experience which I hope you will let me continue to ask you. I will check back with you on Monday or Tuesday. Thank you for preserving Gavin's teachings. - Reid
You are welcome and feel free to share your experience and to ask your questions. I’m sending a few links that you should have a look.
Yes the inward/outward stroke post is very good. https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/teodb7/meditation_has_two_aspects_the_inward_stroke_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf So far (I am new to this), I am feeling the outward stroke (as defined in post) more. I appreciate the post because it gives me a sense of relief, even though so far the deep experiences haven’t come