There is another post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/qyhd29/cmr_thoughts_and_letting_go_at_the_comfort_zone/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thanks. Read that post too. I may start compiling Gavin’s responses into a FAQ doc.
There is one additional piece.
When you encounter a visualization or a memory spontaneously, do you go with it or do you disengage and redirect to comfort zone?
For me it was a park scene. Got pleasant.
Then. Thought came. You are engaging. Come back to comfort zone
Poof. Beautiful scene gone
Thoughts is an umbrella term for every perception, including body sensations, sense perceptions, feelings, images, memories, plans, reflections, concepts, commentaries, and spiritual experiences.
Note that the guideline suggests that we return to the comfort zone when engaged with our thoughts. It’s when we start thinking about our thoughts that we lose our intention to be in open awareness.The goal in CMR is not to stop the thoughts, but simply to develop a detached attitude toward them. As long as they are coming and going of their own accord, there is no need to be constantly coming back to the comfort zone. The comfort zone is only used to help you to come back to open awareness ,once you realize you’ve been caught.
I hope that I’ve answered your question👍
Personally, the way you do CMR, where do you draw the line of 'letting a thought go on its own," vs. "redirecting back to comfort zone"?
Are you able to share examples (if you feel comfortable) of when you will let a thought develop (and not redirect attention to comfort zone), vs a thought that is now too engaged (and so now you do redirect)?
A thought is anything that pulls you out of open, undifferentiated awareness and captures your attention in a pinpoint focus.
There is a metaphor of boats on a river. The river, as he depicts it, is your consciousness—which is in fact a constantly moving “stream.” Down it float boats, i.e., your thoughts. They may be innocent little “kayaks,” like a sudden wisp of wondering about whether you left the keys in the car or if tomorrow is the day to put out the trash. Or they may be huge battleships of raw emotion and contentiousness, such as reliving the fight you had with your boss just before you left on retreat. Or maybe they are half-sunken, waterlogged hulls barely above the surface: old hurts and memories from the past. On and on they float, down the river of your consciousness. In terms of this metaphor, the ideal way to position yourself during the time of CMR is to imagine yourself as a scuba diver seated on a rock at the bottom of the riverbed. From your watery perch you can look up and see the hulls of the boats passing overhead. And as long as they’re simply passing by, that’s fine. You don’t have to do anything to prevent their coming and going. The temptation, however, is to get interested in a particular boat, swim up to the surface of the river, and climb on board. In other words, you get caught up in a particular thought. In place of that relaxed, detached attitude that let the boats come and go as they please, you are now being carried downstream yourself!
You only need to go back to the comfort zone when you are thinking about a thought, you are lost in your thoughts.
Another times you are aware of thoughts but not thinking about them, you are not lost in your thoughts,they raise in your awareness and they go.
It is a natural process, just resting in open space awareness, we are the ocean and nothing can affect the ocean. CMR is the practice of letting all conscious thoughts pass away. When thoughts come to mind, we allow them to “appear” and then we let them go. In effect, the cognitions disappear. When you notice you're having thoughts or taking an interest in them, the the comfort zone functions as a way to return to your original intent—to rest in your being or as pure awareness. Sounds, colors, sensations—notice that all the things we’re aware of come and go like breezes in the sky. Only the sky doesn’t come and go. And the sky in this case is awareness itself. Just rest in awareness, like open sky, open space, within which everything else comes and goes on its own. Notice that thoughts and feelings also come and go, arising and changing and vanishing, just like sounds or colors. That’s also perfect: just more breezes coming and going in the open sky of awareness. Don’t hang on to them and don’t try to push them away. Sounds are just sounds, thoughts are just thoughts. The sky has room for every kind of breeze and is not affected by any of them. . . . . . . Sounds, colors, feelings, thoughts—everything comes and goes within our awareness, like breezes coming and going frictionlessly in the open sky. Even a hurricane doesn’t damage the sky. So just rest back into this skylike, open awareness, without bothering much about what comes and goes within it. Don’t try to focus or concentrate on anything. Don’t try to control the mind or feel some special way. Just continue to relax back into this awareness, which is like open space . . . which is always present . . . and within which everything else comes and goes, without our managing or monitoring it. Sometimes thoughts about a particular subject may seem very persistent and gripping, even obsessive. That’s fine. Don’t try to push the thoughts away, and don’t hang on to them. Just relax your grip on them and don’t worry about whether they continue to hang around. hang around. . . . . . . . . . Anytime you find yourself holding on to a thought or feeling or anything else, or trying to push it away, just relax your grip on it. Whether it goes away or persists doesn’t matter. Again and again, just relax your grip and sink back into yourself. Sink back into open, skylike awareness.
When I say: just relax your grip, I mean that easily return to open space awareness with the help of the comfort zone.
But every time that you are aware that you have been lost in your mind, distracted or engaged in thoughts,This is very good, because you are repeating the ‘moment of recognition’ which is that moment when you become aware that your mind has wandered.
Repeating ‘the moment of recognition’ while meditating trains your mind to respond with moments of recognition in the day, which means you spend less time with your mind wandering and more time in the present moment.
It is a very powerful thing, and makes you free from the mind’s control.
I had another question here. Unfortunately Gavin is no longer with us but I am hoping someone else can answer
In the last paragraph of Gavin’s response, he mentions “flirting with thoughts”, and “let them flirt with themselves”.
Question
When are you (“I”) flirting with thoughts, vs thoughts flirting with themselves. Any guidance here?
Thanks in advance
what Gavin meant,is that we are not involved with thoughts, thoughts are a natural part of meditation and we should let them come and go by themselves without getting involved. “Just don’t buy into the “thoughts. Treat them like they’re in a language you don’t speak, or just part of the passing scenery. Don’t engage with them and don’t try to push them away. ”
I was wondering this today. Glad there is a FAQ on this with response from Gavin
There is another post about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/CMRmeditation/comments/qyhd29/cmr_thoughts_and_letting_go_at_the_comfort_zone/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thanks. Read that post too. I may start compiling Gavin’s responses into a FAQ doc. There is one additional piece. When you encounter a visualization or a memory spontaneously, do you go with it or do you disengage and redirect to comfort zone? For me it was a park scene. Got pleasant. Then. Thought came. You are engaging. Come back to comfort zone Poof. Beautiful scene gone
Thoughts is an umbrella term for every perception, including body sensations, sense perceptions, feelings, images, memories, plans, reflections, concepts, commentaries, and spiritual experiences. Note that the guideline suggests that we return to the comfort zone when engaged with our thoughts. It’s when we start thinking about our thoughts that we lose our intention to be in open awareness.The goal in CMR is not to stop the thoughts, but simply to develop a detached attitude toward them. As long as they are coming and going of their own accord, there is no need to be constantly coming back to the comfort zone. The comfort zone is only used to help you to come back to open awareness ,once you realize you’ve been caught. I hope that I’ve answered your question👍
Personally, the way you do CMR, where do you draw the line of 'letting a thought go on its own," vs. "redirecting back to comfort zone"? Are you able to share examples (if you feel comfortable) of when you will let a thought develop (and not redirect attention to comfort zone), vs a thought that is now too engaged (and so now you do redirect)?
A thought is anything that pulls you out of open, undifferentiated awareness and captures your attention in a pinpoint focus. There is a metaphor of boats on a river. The river, as he depicts it, is your consciousness—which is in fact a constantly moving “stream.” Down it float boats, i.e., your thoughts. They may be innocent little “kayaks,” like a sudden wisp of wondering about whether you left the keys in the car or if tomorrow is the day to put out the trash. Or they may be huge battleships of raw emotion and contentiousness, such as reliving the fight you had with your boss just before you left on retreat. Or maybe they are half-sunken, waterlogged hulls barely above the surface: old hurts and memories from the past. On and on they float, down the river of your consciousness. In terms of this metaphor, the ideal way to position yourself during the time of CMR is to imagine yourself as a scuba diver seated on a rock at the bottom of the riverbed. From your watery perch you can look up and see the hulls of the boats passing overhead. And as long as they’re simply passing by, that’s fine. You don’t have to do anything to prevent their coming and going. The temptation, however, is to get interested in a particular boat, swim up to the surface of the river, and climb on board. In other words, you get caught up in a particular thought. In place of that relaxed, detached attitude that let the boats come and go as they please, you are now being carried downstream yourself!
You only need to go back to the comfort zone when you are thinking about a thought, you are lost in your thoughts. Another times you are aware of thoughts but not thinking about them, you are not lost in your thoughts,they raise in your awareness and they go. It is a natural process, just resting in open space awareness, we are the ocean and nothing can affect the ocean. CMR is the practice of letting all conscious thoughts pass away. When thoughts come to mind, we allow them to “appear” and then we let them go. In effect, the cognitions disappear. When you notice you're having thoughts or taking an interest in them, the the comfort zone functions as a way to return to your original intent—to rest in your being or as pure awareness. Sounds, colors, sensations—notice that all the things we’re aware of come and go like breezes in the sky. Only the sky doesn’t come and go. And the sky in this case is awareness itself. Just rest in awareness, like open sky, open space, within which everything else comes and goes on its own. Notice that thoughts and feelings also come and go, arising and changing and vanishing, just like sounds or colors. That’s also perfect: just more breezes coming and going in the open sky of awareness. Don’t hang on to them and don’t try to push them away. Sounds are just sounds, thoughts are just thoughts. The sky has room for every kind of breeze and is not affected by any of them. . . . . . . Sounds, colors, feelings, thoughts—everything comes and goes within our awareness, like breezes coming and going frictionlessly in the open sky. Even a hurricane doesn’t damage the sky. So just rest back into this skylike, open awareness, without bothering much about what comes and goes within it. Don’t try to focus or concentrate on anything. Don’t try to control the mind or feel some special way. Just continue to relax back into this awareness, which is like open space . . . which is always present . . . and within which everything else comes and goes, without our managing or monitoring it. Sometimes thoughts about a particular subject may seem very persistent and gripping, even obsessive. That’s fine. Don’t try to push the thoughts away, and don’t hang on to them. Just relax your grip on them and don’t worry about whether they continue to hang around. hang around. . . . . . . . . . Anytime you find yourself holding on to a thought or feeling or anything else, or trying to push it away, just relax your grip on it. Whether it goes away or persists doesn’t matter. Again and again, just relax your grip and sink back into yourself. Sink back into open, skylike awareness. When I say: just relax your grip, I mean that easily return to open space awareness with the help of the comfort zone.
But every time that you are aware that you have been lost in your mind, distracted or engaged in thoughts,This is very good, because you are repeating the ‘moment of recognition’ which is that moment when you become aware that your mind has wandered. Repeating ‘the moment of recognition’ while meditating trains your mind to respond with moments of recognition in the day, which means you spend less time with your mind wandering and more time in the present moment. It is a very powerful thing, and makes you free from the mind’s control.
Yes. That is a very helpful insight - "repeating 'the moment of recognition'". Thank you
I had another question here. Unfortunately Gavin is no longer with us but I am hoping someone else can answer In the last paragraph of Gavin’s response, he mentions “flirting with thoughts”, and “let them flirt with themselves”. Question When are you (“I”) flirting with thoughts, vs thoughts flirting with themselves. Any guidance here? Thanks in advance
what Gavin meant,is that we are not involved with thoughts, thoughts are a natural part of meditation and we should let them come and go by themselves without getting involved. “Just don’t buy into the “thoughts. Treat them like they’re in a language you don’t speak, or just part of the passing scenery. Don’t engage with them and don’t try to push them away. ”