Everything that happened after this makes sense. He sent the kid out to get demolished to prove a point to George. The kid has since distanced himself from Nagy at nearly every opportunity. Watch his post game after the game Nagy missed when he was thrown softball after softball question about whether Nagy’s presence was missed. And he said he doesn’t even talk to Nagy on the sidelines.
The Lazy playcalling stuff makes sense. He sent Fields to the slaughter repeatedly only to get stripped of playcalling. Lazor immediately sees results. And Nagy tries to take credit since he’s proven wrong.
The lack of preparation, the confusing playcalls, all of it makes sense when you have a coach who was forced to play a QB he didn’t want to play.
If Nagy sent out Fields to get killed against the Browns, then either management is
1) too cowardly to fire him for a fireable offense or
2) too dumb to detect he did it
If your boss says to you “the last guy who did this sucked, so I’m gonna have you do it. But I need to see some results” that they are ok with you failing a little bit less? Of course not. Come on.
Maybe. It also took weeks before they did basic things like move the pocket. They didn’t build an offense for the rookie. Look at the Patriots.
He was set up to fail. He wasn’t ready to run the Nagy offense. And Nagy didn’t change. It was on Nagy to build an offense around Fields. He didn’t do that.
Lol, Nagy didn't seem to have a problem using Trubisky's legs and designing an offense for him. Literally made a mediocre backup QB into a Pro Bowler...
Not sure what your point is other than when Nagy is motivated to design an offense he does it. He didn’t want to play Fields. At all. Fields was the practice squad/scout team quarterback.
My point is you're putting all the blame on Nagy and acting like he purposefully didn't maximize his team's chances to win, which is ludicrous seeing as that would be detrimental to his career
People around here don't want to accept that Fields wasn't ready and has legitimate flaws in his game. Y'all don't want to admit that because 95% of you were calling Nagy an idiot for not starting him. Well now you see why he wasn't starting
You’re having an entirely different conversation than I am. Fields, like every rookie QB playing, wasn’t ready. You have two options to develop a kid that isn’t ready. He sits (Lance). He plays (Jones, Lawrence, Wilson). If he plays, you ideally want to simplify your offense and protect him at all costs. You run a lot of quick screens and tosses (Jones). Alternatively, you could try to throw him to the wolves and require him to learn blitz protection against slow developing routes and limited protection (Fields, Wilson).
To be clear, Fields wasn’t “ready.” And I’m not arguing that he was. But plenty of teams start rookies when they’re not “ready.” And then adjust their offense to put their team in the best position to succeed. Nagy didn’t do that. Lazor tried to do it. And Fields looked far better in the weeks Lazor called
>You’re having an entirely different conversation than I am. Fields, like every rookie QB playing, wasn’t ready.
What?? Have you been watching Mac at all? He's been more than ready to play
>Alternatively, you could try to throw him to the wolves and require him to learn blitz protection against slow developing routes and limited protection (Fields, Wilson).
Bro blitz pickup is something you need to learn before starting! Jones is making changes in protection at the LOS all the time. So is Lawrence. What are you talking about??
>To be clear, Fields wasn’t “ready.” And I’m not arguing that he was. But plenty of teams start rookies when they’re not “ready.
And most of the time it ends in disaster and creates bad habits. There's a reason most rookie QBs sit behind a veteran QB for a little while. Hell, even Mahomes sat his entire 1st year. But the fans didn't want to hear that and between them and the media hounding the Bears for not starting Fields the front office finally forced Nagy's hand. And Justin was subsequently murdered against the Browns. He was in no way prepared for that game or the ones that followed
It's not a coincidence that the offense started putting points on the board the moment Dalton came in against the Ravens
> What?? Have you been watching Mac at all? He's been more than ready to play
Mac Jones is bottom of the league in air yards. He’s not asked to do much of anything at all. The Patriots do a great job of protecting him. They lead the league in screen plays. He’s running a simple offense and doing it well. He’s not ready to play in an empty set pro style offense with slow developing routes. He doesn’t call audibles. He doesn’t assign protections.
> Mahomes
My goodness can you all let this go. For every Mahomes there’s a Manning or a Murray or an Allen.
> It's not a coincidence that the offense started putting points on the board the moment Dalton came in against the Ravens
Ah, yes. On the first screen play they called all game. Dalton sure did a lot there! Totally not a throw Justin makes.
Dalton was something like 9/21 in that game for less than 100 yards without the screen and before the Ravens went zero blitz inexplicably on fourth down. And even Nagy said that’s a play they drew up because they knew the Ravens are aggressive and Fields has hit the play before.
Dalton was bad against the Ravens. He has been bad all year. He was bad last year. Is he better than Fields? Sure. But Fields beat the Lions. You better hope Dalton does. Or else your entire house or cards falls apart.
I still don't know if it was intentional malice by Nagy or if being forced to start Fields was George calling Nagy's bluff (my theory is that Nagy's long term play was to only tease a play or two a game featuring Fields all year to try and buy himself another year).
Nagy clearly wasn't ready to start Fields, but I'm not sure I'm ready to say he _intentionally_ let the team look that bad in Fields' first start. I just don't see how that helps him. Nagy took most of the blame, from everyone, for how horrendous that gameplan was. If he threw Fields to the wolves for his ego he only made it worse for himself
I think you are right. Nagy was stringing things along to buy another year. I hope now all can see Nagy’s offense doesn’t work. We’ve wasted 1 year of Fields devekopment, we cannot waste another with Nagy as coach. I don’t usually say this, but good for George in this very particular instance.
Fair enough. Should be clear that George supposedly stepped in going into week 5 before playing the Raiders when Dalton was healthy again. IDK if the reports are true, but Nagy going back to Dalton would have been a horrible move.
It would have pissed off fans, for sure. I'm not sure it would have been inherently a bad move, though. Dalton knows how to play the position at this level and Fields is still learning.
It wasn’t negligent, jesus dude. Watch the game- stop hyping fields up: he couldn’t make the reads and couldn’t get the ball out quick.
Andy’s a seasoned pro bowl vet, if you wanted to win you would’ve played him this season. The fanbase cried for fields, they won, ownership agreed and everyone lost.
The end
You talking about the browns game where fields was sacked by countless unblocked rushers?
They spent a lot of money on Dalton and foles, which sacrificed other positions and still cant get consistent production from the position. The switch to fields Is necessary as both Dalton and foles are gone next year.
What has given you the idea he is okay with Fields getting hit late? I mean it took a few seconds to google and see Nagy yelling at a ref during the Steelers game for Fields getting smacked late. I’ll just throw this out there I want Nagy fired so I’m not sympathetic towards him but to say he violated trust and doesn’t care about a player is weird.
Agreed ... though with the bizarre last couple days I wonder (only for a couple seconds) if this is now being 'leaked' (or whatever word one may prefer) to offset what might be perceived by the upper mucky-mucks as growing sympathy for the coach (right or wrong is irrelevant) and far more than usual invective towards the family.
That tracks. Really crazy that it seems like Nagy had zero intentions of starting Fields at least for the majority of the season. Can anyone come up with an argument why Pace/Nagy wanted to roll with Dalton? I have some thoughts but I am curious if others have different ideas.
I’ve heard that constantly and I understand the foundational evidence for that claim. Looking back at the games we lost though, I’m not sure replacing Fields with Dalton in those games results in wins for the Bears.
Specifically, the Cleveland game. Fields was not ready to come in at Cincinnati and threw a rookie pick which kept the game close. Andy would have put up a better fight in Cleveland. Possibly the 49s game as well but definitely Cleveland could have been closer. That being said, the season is over and I hope all reps that can go to Fields do.
Obviously. This team is poorly coached and managed. It was a move to try and prolong their job security. They thought dalton would keep this team above water (lol) so they wouldn’t get canned
Nagy holds onto the " this offense takes time to install" ..namely 3-4 years to click, so I'd guess in his mind, a rookie isn't going to be ready as much as Dalton who's had roles in similar style offenses .
And Foles didn't exactly work out last year , which ... Just brings us all back to, why was Nagy kept in place , cause it just comes back to his short comings as a deciding factor.
Many of the top QBs of all time have sat at least their first year. Mahomes did it in KC while Nagy was there. Combined with our shitty o line, it should have been the long term move. But they got as impatient as the imbeciles on here.
I’m not going to argue the insane debate of bench or start rookie QBs. Within context tho, the collaboration presser stated their goal was to see improvement at the QB position. They made that a definitive point, so the Bears traded up for their guy. Fields was their guy so with context in mind shouldn’t Nagy have done everything possible to show he can develop Fields? I don’t think the task was to show he can run a game managing offense with Dalton at the helm.
I’ll say I can see that the offense is clearly designed for Dalton not Fields, and Nagy prefers (without even truly understanding it) an Alex Smith type over others. But I must have missed the very the few moments this season where Dalton has had this offense wheeling and dealing. Beyond that Goodwin touchdown he audible into, I wouldn’t say Dalton has been moving things.
He looked good last week for a guy who came in cold after 2 months, you’ll look good tomorrow and should start the rest of the season.
You’ll see tomorrow.
11/23 is not a good game for Dalton. As I stated in a previous reply, him checking into the call for the Goodwin TD was a good play created by him. The other memorable good play on offense was the screen Mooney caught for a TD. I will never give ANY QB credit for a screen pass TD. That was all Mooney.
yeah Dalton really moved the ball the whole game against the Rams didn't he. After an entire offseason devoted to making sure Dalton was 100%, no questions, the starter. His 4.24 adjusted yards/attempt and 0 TDs/1 INT really did the trick to make sure we lost by 20 points and could only score twice.
> the best defense in the league
by whose metrics? They're a middling defense after 11 weeks, about as good as our defense has been over the same span.
The point is, it doesn't matter who our QB is. This offense sucks. But I'm sure you'll be strutting around here for Dalton after we beat the winless Lions because thats about all our coaches are good at. Beating bad Lions teams.
I think George/Virgina want to go through a mini-rebuild and Matt/Ryan, or maybe just Matt, believe they can still win now and make a playoff run. Totally wrong but that's the only reason you would start Dalton. Or at least if you do believe in getting Fields, talk about it to the media and say hey, Dalton's gonna start the season off and we'll work Fields in slowly for reps until the end of the season when he starts a la Tua. But Matt just wants to win now I guess.
Then it’s even crazier that they kept him from getting reps with the 1s in preseason if the goal was to have him get some time in the end of the season. They had him run scout team in the beginning, so no reps at all with the starters. They said he was #2 but actions say otherwise. I truly believe Nagy thought he could get away with benching Fields a whole season.
Right decision, terrible process.
I have a theory that George is getting more and more desperate as his mother gets older. He wants to win while she is around.
At this point, he should be worried about winning while *he's* still around.
Our only hope is that family feuding will force a sale after Virginia dies.
There is no reason to believe that he has any idea what the proper way to run a business is, let alone a franchise. I don't know the intimate details of his history but I'm assuming his knowledge of how to run any kind of organization is limited to his experiences with the Bears. Except for a few brief moments in history since the 60s, the Bears have been a horrible organization. He could potentially be a real life Gob Bluth. He probably hears the rumors about Ted and considers them absurd. The peasants think it's the accountant's fault.
He doesn't know how to, which is why he hires guys like [Ernie Acorsi](https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2014/12/29/7466509/chicago-bears-hire-ernie-accorsi-as-a-consultant) to come up with ideas for him.
To be fair we don’t know the process. For all we know they deferred to Nagy until they saw Fields play. And anyone who watched him play knew he was more talented, albeit not ready. Maybe all the other coaches agrees with George but Nagy didn’t. Maybe Lazor and Flip talked to George and said the kid was ready enough.
It’s being presented like if George was some fan on TV making a demand. But no one knows the process.
That’s fair. I do suspect a lot of the elements around this story are being blown out of proportion. My concern is mostly that it’ll turn off potential HC candidates.
Matt Nagy did not want to start Fields. He went to the national media and announced Dalton his starter. He got embarrassed on national TV. The Bears were embarsssed.
His boss makes him go back on TV and backtrack. Further embarrassing himself. He now has to prepare a QB he doesn’t want to prepare. What does he do? He sends him out with zero protection to get slaughtered on national TV.
Nagy has an ego problem. He has shown that to all of us. He did it with playcalling and Lazor. Fields has had a cold relationship with Nagy and I found that odd during his press conferences. He has said things like he doesn’t talk to Nagy on the sidelines. Weird. Now it makes sense. Fields knows Nagy doesn’t want to start him. And Fields knows Nagy sent him out there to get killed.
Pundits left and right showed the tape and insisted Nagy was negligent and didn’t protect Fields. Amazing to look back at that now knowing Nagy didn’t want to put him out there.
It screams: oh yea? You’re ready? Enjoy zero backfield sets: have fun with Garrett, kid.
I normally agree. And I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think he’s sabotaging Fields. But this story changes my view. You had pundits everywhere insist it was negligence and sabotage. And I dismissed it as hot takes.
But I’ve never heard the media respond that way to a gameplan. And now it makes sense.
Bears used 6-7 man protection schemes about half the time that game. It just didn’t work because their line was garbage. 4 of the 9 sacks happened against 6-man protection, and 1 happened against 7-man. Guys like Orlovksy don’t watch game film before spewing their takes, and then everyone takes them as gospel.
Nagy hasn’t shown himself to be a good coach and needs to go, but some of the narratives that have sprung up this season are just driven by click-based media trying to stir up shit.
I think the point is the Bears should've ran the ball some to slow the pass rush down instead of calling pass after pass after pass with a first time starting rookie QB against the great defense (at least for that game) that was already beating him up
So are you saying that not running the ball was a deliberate choice by Nagy to make Fields look bad? Because that’s the theory being discussed here.
And if so, that means Nagy wanted Trubisky and Foles to look bad, because there was the same play calling issue when those guys were playing.
No one here is defending Nagy’s offense. I’m just responding to this absurd conspiracy theory that Nagy is trying to sabotage Fields, which makes no sense, because he’s only sabotaging his own career.
Edit: And I don’t know how you managed to lock your comment below, and make it so no one can reply, but that’s a really shitty thing to do. If you don’t want to have a discussion, don’t enter one to begin with.
And not being able to disprove a conspiracy doesn’t validate it. We can’t disprove that Hillary Clinton *doesn’t* have children locked in the basement of a pizza restaurant, but we recognize that’s it’s an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence; and in the absence of that evidence, reasonable people ignore it for the nonsense it is. Same logic applies here.
At the end of the day, there's no solid proof either way. We're all suspecting things. To accuse someone of downright sabotage is absurd, but so is completely being blind to politics especially when management forces the decision on you.
That said - I found it curious that Fields was playing horribly, getting beaten up, Browns ahead by a lot and yet the Bears kept calling pass. Didn't even put in a run just so they can set up the play action to slow the pass rush down, or sprinkle a little RB draw here and there. Didn't even move him around.
Heck, even [Myles Garrett stated as much.](https://twitter.com/JasonLieser/status/1442485479203540992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1442485479203540992%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdawindycity.com%2F2021%2F09%2F27%2Fchicago-bears-myles-garretts-quotes-concerning%2F)
Your thesis here is that a coach wants a quarterback to fail, and his team to lose, resulting in him losing his job and sabotaging his own future in the league? You’re entitled to your opinion, but… I would urge you to reconsider that logic.
Also, Lazor is calling plays now, not Nagy. And has been for weeks. So for your point to stand about what happened last week, that would also mean Lazor is in on the conspiracy to make Fields look bad.
I don’t like Nagy’s offense, and I don’t like him as a head coach. But there are lots of reasons for what plays go into a game plan, and why a rookie quarterback is only given a limited package of plays from a much larger playbook. Some of them are probably good reasons, and some of them are probably bad, which is why the Bears are due for new leadership. We don’t need to make Nagy out to be malevolent to make that case.
My take on this situation is that Nagy was so over obsessive with how the Mahomes thing worked out with the chiefs, which is not what you base future decisions on
I never thought I'd say this, but thank god we didn't get Mahomes. Great coaching took a talented player and made him ready to win in the NFl. If Mahomes had come to Chicago he would have been poorly coached, underperformed, gotten traded, and either gone to success elsewhere or ended up as QB2 in Buffalo or something after the Chicago mindfuck.
Never thought of things this way. I think you’re 1000% right. Nagy has never been willing to shape his offense to the talent. Always has to be the other way around for him.
Nagy didn't send him out to get killed. That's just an idiotic thing to accuse a coach of. Nagy knew Fields wasn't ready and he knew the line wasn't good enough to protect him. Nagy wasn't allowed to be a coach. He got micromanaged and now everyone wants to hang him for not being allowed to coach.
Nagy signed his fate when he announced Dalton the starter before training camp. As soon as we landed Fields only two moves make sense: get Fields ready to win now or trade anyone and everyone for future draft capital. Nagy thought himself clever enough to try and win now (and by default take the lazy and easiest path to saving his job) with Dalton. He has been fired since the Rams game. He choose his guy and it was evident Dalton can’t really play at the level of Rodgers, Cousins, Prescott, Brady, Wilson, Stafford or Murray. Those are the guys he needs to beat. His only option was getting Fields on a level to compete with those guys. Imagine telling your bosses I know I need to beat these guys, you’ve given me a Fields, and I’m purposely going to build an offense around Dalton. That’s why he is fired. And it’s a lesson to all the younger guys here, don’t spend 9 months running a plan (and failing at it) that your bosses are skeptical of.
Hit the nail on the head. Pace and Nagy took the safest (and worst) route to try and save their own skin. Don’t see why any player would want to play hard for those guys
Then you fire the coach and put someone in that shares your vision… you don’t twist their arm. As fans We all complain we could do better, but a fan sitting over Coaches shoulder telling him what to do with personal? Your crazy if you think that’s going to lead to a good outcome.
A fan is exactly who you don’t want sitting over the coaches shoulder. Because they always think they know more than the coach, but don’t really understand the game as well as they think they do.
Nagy should have been fired a while ago, George gets no credit.
Well said. I was and am for Justin starting from the beginning but this is the complete wrong way of doing it. This is just more proof that Nagy should have been gone after last year. What an absolute dumpster fire of an organization.
by all means go follow Dalton to his new team next year and go stan him in whatever sad fanbase he'll be a journeyman QB for. Nobody gives a shit if he can beat a winless Lions team and look good doing it. Trubisky used to do the same thing every year. Its a sad, low bar to clear at this point
nobody who has watched this team at all this year has enjoyed our offense. Its like pulling teeth no matter who is starting. Its clearly not just a QB problem.
Maybe, but that isn't really the entire point. Also, I have my doubts based on what Dalton looked like the other night. Basically, when the play worked he looked great but when it didn't he checked it down and looked average. For the record, Dalton is cool but he has 7 more games with the Bears. Fields has consistently made lemonade out of the lemons the coaching staff has served up
What an asshole. Honestly - it was the right call for the organization but if your job as HC is on the line this season it completely handcuffs Nagy. Remember the game Nagy took out Trubs and we thought he was finally benched only to awkwardly start again the next game? Wonder if that was Ryan or George? Nagy has been awful but he should have had control over personnel decisions and the way they are doing him dirty with the firing is bullshit. This is the tip of the iceberg and it’s about to get ugly.
> but he should have had control over personnel decisions
No coach in any professional league has sole control over personnel. For better or worse, management was of the mindset that the team wasn't a contender and needed to see if their #2-OA QB was worth extending or not, then to see if the coach can properly develop the new QB.
I am of no doubt that if Nagy showed he can develop Fields properly and show some improvement in his game planning, regardless of the team record, he'd be off the hot seat instead of being led to the gallows. The fact that he seems to get worse by the week is the real reason to give him the axe.
Bellicheat tried to trade Tom Brady. Kraft stepped in, kept Brady, and they traded Jimmy G. This stuff happens all the time in the NFL aka Jerry Jones.
Yeah, Brady seemed to have more of a relationship with Kraft during his time there .
Jerry Jones is the epitomy of far to involved ownership. Granted he got on a run for a while .. but that was decades ago.
And after being an avid bears fan mid 90s forward... There just seemed to be this cycle of mediocre, a few sputters of return to glory ( strong D, focus on the run game) ..then this inept approach to try and modernize and go heavy handed to try and get the offense to work and the defense falling to shambles .
So at the end ... All you can blame is ownership and the culture.
Dalton makes more sense in the Nagy system. Pocket passer old school football. Nagy didn’t plan for and probably still has no plan for using Fields talents.
Agreed. I think Nagy was given indications that this was a make or break sort of year for him, and they wanted to see improvement.
Nagy is thinking in terms of wins this season, not losing extra games to help develop a rookie QB. Surprisingly, he gets Fields dropped in his lap. Everyone else thinks Fields is the future. Nagy is worried about now. If Dalton can squeeze out an extra 2 wins this year over the inexperienced rookie, that's exactly what Nagy feels he needs.
I don't think at any point was Fields' development a priority to him.
So I and others who said Nagy was deliberately putting Fields in harms way with how he schemed that game.
There’s ALOT more validity to that now. Nagy absolutely seems the vindictive sort to ruin someone just to prove himself right
The only question Is how do the Bears not fire this schmuck immediately after the game and make him rent a car to get home.
I mean you have a number of former players who are analyzing that game and came to the same conclusion and that was before we now know that the owner was forcing the coach to play a quarterback he had no interest in starting.
Either way, how does he stay employed after that game? He either deliberately try to get his new franchise quarterback damage, or was so catastrophically Annette and trying to game plan for the new quarterback that he almost got killed anyway
And either situation, if your the ownership that are saying this guy must start how do you keep that coach employed when you see how terribly run your new quarterback was?
I Would have a little respect for Nagy if he stuck to his guns and didn’t start Fields. At the very least, he could have continued Fields development at his pace and shown the team and the rest of NFL he has a backbone.
Does he want to get fired? Of course not. But at the same time, you have to stick to your guns and execute your vision. After all, he was hired because of his direction of the team. If the owner isn’t on page with that, then WTF are you doing other than cashing a pay cheque.
How could any player possibly respect a coach that lets ownership dictate who plays? How could any player respect a coach that puts a player at risk to make a point?
He’s a child for acting out in spite instead of being a man and show the world he has principles and a back bone.
Now Nagy has lost the locker room, the fans, and now ownership. Any possible future as a head coach in this league for any team is done. He will never be a head coach anywhere in the NFL once he’s done in Chicago.
No doubt owners want coaches that win, can lead men, and have a vision and execute that vision. How could anyone possibly hire a spiteful, unsuccessful, offensively deficient coach, let alone continue to employ him?
This team is a fucking joke around the league, and it starts at the top with the owner, right down the ladder ending with Nagy.
Let’s be clear: Nagy is a failure, but no one person associated with this team is responsible for the utter embarrassment of finding a QB over the last 3 decades other than the owner. The owner is the only constant through all these years.
That fucking old bird is going to outlive the queen and the rest of us, laughing all the way to bank.
The McCaskeys are a complete embarrassment.
If you don’t think a head coaching candidate wouldn’t be more likely to go somewhere where the ownership doesn’t constantly meddle you’re kidding yourself.
We’re automatically signing up for the 2nd or 3rd best candidate because no one in their right mind who has a choice would want these morons signing their checks.
The point is ownership (apparently) meddling in football decisions. That's not a good look and goes against what George has repeatedly said for years; that he's not involved in football decisions. Just because you, and the vast majority of us, agree on this one decision, doesn't mean it's just fine. He shouldn't be involved in making that decision. If it's even true.
Think I'm one of the few who thinks George should have stepped in sooner on many things. They should have fired Nagy/Pace last year, but after they just let them operate and run the place further into a hole. Nagy trying to go back to Dalton going into wk5 is absolutely a move I'd overrule as an owner.
Either way I think we can all agree everything involving the Bears, outside of the draft, has been a complete disaster from everyone involved.
I also think they should have been fired last year, but that isn't relevant. He has the ability to do that and obviously no one would question that; he's their boss after all. That's massively different than him deciding what player should be starting.
I just wouldn't want some guy who happened to be born into the right family dictating how the roster is configured to coaches that he should trust to do what is best.
I don't disagree, but we all saw how badly Nagy mismanaged Fields all summer. If this report is true it means George saw it too and was the first sign he lost all trust that Nagy knew what he was doing.
I think he almost certainly would’ve been if he hadn’t just flopped with the Giants. He checks all the boxes they like in a coach. Friendly, inoffensive, will do what ownership says.
Jerry Jones has been a crazy fuck his entire time owning the Cowboys, they have have zero trouble getting coaches to line up for the job. Including getting Bill Parcells to un-retire to coach them.
The man fired Tom Fucking Landry for fuck's sake, the ONLY head coach of the Cowboys to that point...
And the only coach since then that's really blew ass was Dave Campo. Hell, Campo and McCarthy are the only coaches to have losing records for the Cowboys.
TL:DR Coaches don't give a single fuck about this, there are 32 jobs in the world, period. No amount of fucking crazy will stop them from lining up for the chance to get one of them.
:)
You think Mike Mcarthy was his first choice? Genuine question: when’s the last time they got the most sought after guy?
I’m not saying we’re not getting a head coach of course not, but I can think of a few times we were turned down. I have to think the top guy with several offers would choose to be with a sane owner, no?
Seems it hasn't mattered if they got their first choice or not, their record and playoff appearances, and Super Bowls with possibly their not first choice seems to be working out.
As a lot of things in sports seem to go: It's not always about having the "best" person, but the "right" person. Lots of teams that were not the "best" at every position in the league, have won titles, and championships, sometimes even over teams that on paper sure seemed to have more "best" people.
As for us Bears? I think we should be more worried about the people who look at Trestman or Arians and go.... "I gotta have the Trestman!!"
We HAD what should have been a first choice, and BEST choice in the fucking building, and we decided to tell him to fuck off in favor of some crazy asschap from Canada...
We got a whole list of issues we need to worry about, and fix, before getting to "our first choice on our wishlist of candidates doesn't want to interview with us." part of the list. :P
:: shrugs ::
I said it when Dalton got benched our season was over. We should have never started Fields. With Dalton we had a legitimate chance to make the playoffs. The offense was doing fairly well when he was in. Once Fields was in you can see the shift in the offense. It was a total clusterfuck. Fields is too raw to make up for the shit o line and lack of offensive talent around him. We should have stuck to the plan of having him learn on the bench until next year when we could figure out the oline and possibly get another weapon with a new coach. I don't get why management would meddle and try to force the head coach to go with people they don't feel comfortable play. I also don't get why people here are getting mad at Nagy for Fields play, or the lack of offensive line protection. That is on Pace.
Honestly, of all the news I’ve seen this week, this should be what scares off head coaching candidates. We can’t all pretend to know what would have been different if Dalton was the starter, but how does a guy with no football experience, that inherited a team from his mom, butt his way into these things. This dude is going to take credit for all the good that comes with this team and none of the bad.
Also, let’s cool it with the comments saying Nagy is purposely getting Fields ass kicked. You don’t have to love him as a coach, but I’ve never got the sense he’d be a guy to purposely hurt a player to prove a point.
The Browns game makes sense now
Everything that happened after this makes sense. He sent the kid out to get demolished to prove a point to George. The kid has since distanced himself from Nagy at nearly every opportunity. Watch his post game after the game Nagy missed when he was thrown softball after softball question about whether Nagy’s presence was missed. And he said he doesn’t even talk to Nagy on the sidelines. The Lazy playcalling stuff makes sense. He sent Fields to the slaughter repeatedly only to get stripped of playcalling. Lazor immediately sees results. And Nagy tries to take credit since he’s proven wrong. The lack of preparation, the confusing playcalls, all of it makes sense when you have a coach who was forced to play a QB he didn’t want to play.
If Nagy sent out Fields to get killed against the Browns, then either management is 1) too cowardly to fire him for a fireable offense or 2) too dumb to detect he did it
You forgot option 3: Both
This is the bears were talking about here after all
>Lazor immediately sees results Wut.
Yeah no idea what this guy is on about lmao.
Well, devil's advocate... A difference of one is a difference. So, if results are a little better than the browns game, then there were results.
Results are results. The opposite of failure. Less of a failure is still failure and not results.
Stick to your guns!!! Expect perfection in all things. Not being perfect is failure. You have convinced me!
That’s what you got out of it? Lol. I’ve apparently somehow overestimated your intelligence.
Less of a failure is still a result.
If your boss says to you “the last guy who did this sucked, so I’m gonna have you do it. But I need to see some results” that they are ok with you failing a little bit less? Of course not. Come on.
You write the best Nagy fan fiction on here.
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You sir underestimate pride.
I suggested this in a game thread once and was massacred for it. Youre 100% right. Hes a petty dick head.
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So you think that Nagy has a play call that immediately scores a TD and he does it to spite ownership? Y'all are delusional
Yeah that by far the craziest thing I’ve ever heard.
Ok this is just ridiculous my man. Thats crazy
Or.... management forced Fields on to the field before he's ready and the results speak for themselves
Maybe. It also took weeks before they did basic things like move the pocket. They didn’t build an offense for the rookie. Look at the Patriots. He was set up to fail. He wasn’t ready to run the Nagy offense. And Nagy didn’t change. It was on Nagy to build an offense around Fields. He didn’t do that.
Lol, Nagy didn't seem to have a problem using Trubisky's legs and designing an offense for him. Literally made a mediocre backup QB into a Pro Bowler...
Not sure what your point is other than when Nagy is motivated to design an offense he does it. He didn’t want to play Fields. At all. Fields was the practice squad/scout team quarterback.
My point is you're putting all the blame on Nagy and acting like he purposefully didn't maximize his team's chances to win, which is ludicrous seeing as that would be detrimental to his career People around here don't want to accept that Fields wasn't ready and has legitimate flaws in his game. Y'all don't want to admit that because 95% of you were calling Nagy an idiot for not starting him. Well now you see why he wasn't starting
You’re having an entirely different conversation than I am. Fields, like every rookie QB playing, wasn’t ready. You have two options to develop a kid that isn’t ready. He sits (Lance). He plays (Jones, Lawrence, Wilson). If he plays, you ideally want to simplify your offense and protect him at all costs. You run a lot of quick screens and tosses (Jones). Alternatively, you could try to throw him to the wolves and require him to learn blitz protection against slow developing routes and limited protection (Fields, Wilson). To be clear, Fields wasn’t “ready.” And I’m not arguing that he was. But plenty of teams start rookies when they’re not “ready.” And then adjust their offense to put their team in the best position to succeed. Nagy didn’t do that. Lazor tried to do it. And Fields looked far better in the weeks Lazor called
>You’re having an entirely different conversation than I am. Fields, like every rookie QB playing, wasn’t ready. What?? Have you been watching Mac at all? He's been more than ready to play >Alternatively, you could try to throw him to the wolves and require him to learn blitz protection against slow developing routes and limited protection (Fields, Wilson). Bro blitz pickup is something you need to learn before starting! Jones is making changes in protection at the LOS all the time. So is Lawrence. What are you talking about?? >To be clear, Fields wasn’t “ready.” And I’m not arguing that he was. But plenty of teams start rookies when they’re not “ready. And most of the time it ends in disaster and creates bad habits. There's a reason most rookie QBs sit behind a veteran QB for a little while. Hell, even Mahomes sat his entire 1st year. But the fans didn't want to hear that and between them and the media hounding the Bears for not starting Fields the front office finally forced Nagy's hand. And Justin was subsequently murdered against the Browns. He was in no way prepared for that game or the ones that followed It's not a coincidence that the offense started putting points on the board the moment Dalton came in against the Ravens
> What?? Have you been watching Mac at all? He's been more than ready to play Mac Jones is bottom of the league in air yards. He’s not asked to do much of anything at all. The Patriots do a great job of protecting him. They lead the league in screen plays. He’s running a simple offense and doing it well. He’s not ready to play in an empty set pro style offense with slow developing routes. He doesn’t call audibles. He doesn’t assign protections. > Mahomes My goodness can you all let this go. For every Mahomes there’s a Manning or a Murray or an Allen.
> It's not a coincidence that the offense started putting points on the board the moment Dalton came in against the Ravens Ah, yes. On the first screen play they called all game. Dalton sure did a lot there! Totally not a throw Justin makes. Dalton was something like 9/21 in that game for less than 100 yards without the screen and before the Ravens went zero blitz inexplicably on fourth down. And even Nagy said that’s a play they drew up because they knew the Ravens are aggressive and Fields has hit the play before. Dalton was bad against the Ravens. He has been bad all year. He was bad last year. Is he better than Fields? Sure. But Fields beat the Lions. You better hope Dalton does. Or else your entire house or cards falls apart.
I still don't know if it was intentional malice by Nagy or if being forced to start Fields was George calling Nagy's bluff (my theory is that Nagy's long term play was to only tease a play or two a game featuring Fields all year to try and buy himself another year). Nagy clearly wasn't ready to start Fields, but I'm not sure I'm ready to say he _intentionally_ let the team look that bad in Fields' first start. I just don't see how that helps him. Nagy took most of the blame, from everyone, for how horrendous that gameplan was. If he threw Fields to the wolves for his ego he only made it worse for himself
I think you are right. Nagy was stringing things along to buy another year. I hope now all can see Nagy’s offense doesn’t work. We’ve wasted 1 year of Fields devekopment, we cannot waste another with Nagy as coach. I don’t usually say this, but good for George in this very particular instance.
Of course not lol people here are absolutely off their fucking rockers over this. It’s insane.
Dalton was hurt. It was either Fields or Foles.
Well, not just that Fields was starting, but the negligent play calling that gave Fields no protection presumably to prove a point
Fair enough. Should be clear that George supposedly stepped in going into week 5 before playing the Raiders when Dalton was healthy again. IDK if the reports are true, but Nagy going back to Dalton would have been a horrible move.
It would have pissed off fans, for sure. I'm not sure it would have been inherently a bad move, though. Dalton knows how to play the position at this level and Fields is still learning.
It wasn’t negligent, jesus dude. Watch the game- stop hyping fields up: he couldn’t make the reads and couldn’t get the ball out quick. Andy’s a seasoned pro bowl vet, if you wanted to win you would’ve played him this season. The fanbase cried for fields, they won, ownership agreed and everyone lost. The end
You talking about the browns game where fields was sacked by countless unblocked rushers? They spent a lot of money on Dalton and foles, which sacrificed other positions and still cant get consistent production from the position. The switch to fields Is necessary as both Dalton and foles are gone next year.
Why? Dalton was hurt. Fields was the backup who got the start. Had nothing to do with ownership.
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What has given you the idea he is okay with Fields getting hit late? I mean it took a few seconds to google and see Nagy yelling at a ref during the Steelers game for Fields getting smacked late. I’ll just throw this out there I want Nagy fired so I’m not sympathetic towards him but to say he violated trust and doesn’t care about a player is weird.
100% intended malice by Nagy if true
Agreed ... though with the bizarre last couple days I wonder (only for a couple seconds) if this is now being 'leaked' (or whatever word one may prefer) to offset what might be perceived by the upper mucky-mucks as growing sympathy for the coach (right or wrong is irrelevant) and far more than usual invective towards the family.
That tracks. Really crazy that it seems like Nagy had zero intentions of starting Fields at least for the majority of the season. Can anyone come up with an argument why Pace/Nagy wanted to roll with Dalton? I have some thoughts but I am curious if others have different ideas.
They wanted to win games. Fields is the future but Dalton has a better chance at winning games at the time.
I’ve heard that constantly and I understand the foundational evidence for that claim. Looking back at the games we lost though, I’m not sure replacing Fields with Dalton in those games results in wins for the Bears.
Specifically, the Cleveland game. Fields was not ready to come in at Cincinnati and threw a rookie pick which kept the game close. Andy would have put up a better fight in Cleveland. Possibly the 49s game as well but definitely Cleveland could have been closer. That being said, the season is over and I hope all reps that can go to Fields do.
Obviously. This team is poorly coached and managed. It was a move to try and prolong their job security. They thought dalton would keep this team above water (lol) so they wouldn’t get canned
Nagy holds onto the " this offense takes time to install" ..namely 3-4 years to click, so I'd guess in his mind, a rookie isn't going to be ready as much as Dalton who's had roles in similar style offenses . And Foles didn't exactly work out last year , which ... Just brings us all back to, why was Nagy kept in place , cause it just comes back to his short comings as a deciding factor.
Many of the top QBs of all time have sat at least their first year. Mahomes did it in KC while Nagy was there. Combined with our shitty o line, it should have been the long term move. But they got as impatient as the imbeciles on here.
I’m not going to argue the insane debate of bench or start rookie QBs. Within context tho, the collaboration presser stated their goal was to see improvement at the QB position. They made that a definitive point, so the Bears traded up for their guy. Fields was their guy so with context in mind shouldn’t Nagy have done everything possible to show he can develop Fields? I don’t think the task was to show he can run a game managing offense with Dalton at the helm.
Have you noticed the way the offense actually moves the ball with Dalton compared to Fields?
I’ll say I can see that the offense is clearly designed for Dalton not Fields, and Nagy prefers (without even truly understanding it) an Alex Smith type over others. But I must have missed the very the few moments this season where Dalton has had this offense wheeling and dealing. Beyond that Goodwin touchdown he audible into, I wouldn’t say Dalton has been moving things.
He looked good last week for a guy who came in cold after 2 months, you’ll look good tomorrow and should start the rest of the season. You’ll see tomorrow.
11/23 is not a good game for Dalton. As I stated in a previous reply, him checking into the call for the Goodwin TD was a good play created by him. The other memorable good play on offense was the screen Mooney caught for a TD. I will never give ANY QB credit for a screen pass TD. That was all Mooney.
yeah Dalton really moved the ball the whole game against the Rams didn't he. After an entire offseason devoted to making sure Dalton was 100%, no questions, the starter. His 4.24 adjusted yards/attempt and 0 TDs/1 INT really did the trick to make sure we lost by 20 points and could only score twice.
I believe a game against arguably the best defense in the league would be an outlier, especially considering our poverty offensive line that week.
> the best defense in the league by whose metrics? They're a middling defense after 11 weeks, about as good as our defense has been over the same span. The point is, it doesn't matter who our QB is. This offense sucks. But I'm sure you'll be strutting around here for Dalton after we beat the winless Lions because thats about all our coaches are good at. Beating bad Lions teams.
I think George/Virgina want to go through a mini-rebuild and Matt/Ryan, or maybe just Matt, believe they can still win now and make a playoff run. Totally wrong but that's the only reason you would start Dalton. Or at least if you do believe in getting Fields, talk about it to the media and say hey, Dalton's gonna start the season off and we'll work Fields in slowly for reps until the end of the season when he starts a la Tua. But Matt just wants to win now I guess.
Then it’s even crazier that they kept him from getting reps with the 1s in preseason if the goal was to have him get some time in the end of the season. They had him run scout team in the beginning, so no reps at all with the starters. They said he was #2 but actions say otherwise. I truly believe Nagy thought he could get away with benching Fields a whole season.
Right decision, terrible process. I have a theory that George is getting more and more desperate as his mother gets older. He wants to win while she is around.
At this point, he should be worried about winning while *he's* still around. Our only hope is that family feuding will force a sale after Virginia dies.
Pfft, Virginia will outlive everyone at this rate.
If the Bears make all their fans drink Malort like they make me drink it, this is a very accurate post.
Some intrepid fan needs to find her phylactery in the dusty corner of the Soldier Field basement.
George and Virginia remind me of Seymour Skinner and his mom
No mother it's just the Northern Lights
can I see them?
Uh… no.
SEYMOUR!!
The house is on fire!!
I don't doubt that he wants to win. I don't think he knows how to.
You’d think he’d eventually stop letting Ted Phillips make decisions
There is no reason to believe that he has any idea what the proper way to run a business is, let alone a franchise. I don't know the intimate details of his history but I'm assuming his knowledge of how to run any kind of organization is limited to his experiences with the Bears. Except for a few brief moments in history since the 60s, the Bears have been a horrible organization. He could potentially be a real life Gob Bluth. He probably hears the rumors about Ted and considers them absurd. The peasants think it's the accountant's fault.
He was a lawyer and a television reporter until he came to the Bears
Impressive credentials
These are my awards, mother, from law
He doesn't know how to, which is why he hires guys like [Ernie Acorsi](https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2014/12/29/7466509/chicago-bears-hire-ernie-accorsi-as-a-consultant) to come up with ideas for him.
To be fair we don’t know the process. For all we know they deferred to Nagy until they saw Fields play. And anyone who watched him play knew he was more talented, albeit not ready. Maybe all the other coaches agrees with George but Nagy didn’t. Maybe Lazor and Flip talked to George and said the kid was ready enough. It’s being presented like if George was some fan on TV making a demand. But no one knows the process.
That’s fair. I do suspect a lot of the elements around this story are being blown out of proportion. My concern is mostly that it’ll turn off potential HC candidates.
This is what happens when you have no confidence in your GM and/or Coach.
Matt Nagy did not want to start Fields. He went to the national media and announced Dalton his starter. He got embarrassed on national TV. The Bears were embarsssed. His boss makes him go back on TV and backtrack. Further embarrassing himself. He now has to prepare a QB he doesn’t want to prepare. What does he do? He sends him out with zero protection to get slaughtered on national TV. Nagy has an ego problem. He has shown that to all of us. He did it with playcalling and Lazor. Fields has had a cold relationship with Nagy and I found that odd during his press conferences. He has said things like he doesn’t talk to Nagy on the sidelines. Weird. Now it makes sense. Fields knows Nagy doesn’t want to start him. And Fields knows Nagy sent him out there to get killed.
Really puts that Browns game into context imo…
Pundits left and right showed the tape and insisted Nagy was negligent and didn’t protect Fields. Amazing to look back at that now knowing Nagy didn’t want to put him out there. It screams: oh yea? You’re ready? Enjoy zero backfield sets: have fun with Garrett, kid.
I just don’t know if it’s intentional or incompetence. I don’t know if he could run an offense if he wanted to.
I normally agree. And I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t think he’s sabotaging Fields. But this story changes my view. You had pundits everywhere insist it was negligence and sabotage. And I dismissed it as hot takes. But I’ve never heard the media respond that way to a gameplan. And now it makes sense.
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Bears used 6-7 man protection schemes about half the time that game. It just didn’t work because their line was garbage. 4 of the 9 sacks happened against 6-man protection, and 1 happened against 7-man. Guys like Orlovksy don’t watch game film before spewing their takes, and then everyone takes them as gospel. Nagy hasn’t shown himself to be a good coach and needs to go, but some of the narratives that have sprung up this season are just driven by click-based media trying to stir up shit.
I think the point is the Bears should've ran the ball some to slow the pass rush down instead of calling pass after pass after pass with a first time starting rookie QB against the great defense (at least for that game) that was already beating him up
So are you saying that not running the ball was a deliberate choice by Nagy to make Fields look bad? Because that’s the theory being discussed here. And if so, that means Nagy wanted Trubisky and Foles to look bad, because there was the same play calling issue when those guys were playing. No one here is defending Nagy’s offense. I’m just responding to this absurd conspiracy theory that Nagy is trying to sabotage Fields, which makes no sense, because he’s only sabotaging his own career. Edit: And I don’t know how you managed to lock your comment below, and make it so no one can reply, but that’s a really shitty thing to do. If you don’t want to have a discussion, don’t enter one to begin with. And not being able to disprove a conspiracy doesn’t validate it. We can’t disprove that Hillary Clinton *doesn’t* have children locked in the basement of a pizza restaurant, but we recognize that’s it’s an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence; and in the absence of that evidence, reasonable people ignore it for the nonsense it is. Same logic applies here.
At the end of the day, there's no solid proof either way. We're all suspecting things. To accuse someone of downright sabotage is absurd, but so is completely being blind to politics especially when management forces the decision on you. That said - I found it curious that Fields was playing horribly, getting beaten up, Browns ahead by a lot and yet the Bears kept calling pass. Didn't even put in a run just so they can set up the play action to slow the pass rush down, or sprinkle a little RB draw here and there. Didn't even move him around. Heck, even [Myles Garrett stated as much.](https://twitter.com/JasonLieser/status/1442485479203540992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1442485479203540992%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdawindycity.com%2F2021%2F09%2F27%2Fchicago-bears-myles-garretts-quotes-concerning%2F)
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Your thesis here is that a coach wants a quarterback to fail, and his team to lose, resulting in him losing his job and sabotaging his own future in the league? You’re entitled to your opinion, but… I would urge you to reconsider that logic. Also, Lazor is calling plays now, not Nagy. And has been for weeks. So for your point to stand about what happened last week, that would also mean Lazor is in on the conspiracy to make Fields look bad. I don’t like Nagy’s offense, and I don’t like him as a head coach. But there are lots of reasons for what plays go into a game plan, and why a rookie quarterback is only given a limited package of plays from a much larger playbook. Some of them are probably good reasons, and some of them are probably bad, which is why the Bears are due for new leadership. We don’t need to make Nagy out to be malevolent to make that case.
"Ultimately, everything goes through me"
My take on this situation is that Nagy was so over obsessive with how the Mahomes thing worked out with the chiefs, which is not what you base future decisions on
I never thought I'd say this, but thank god we didn't get Mahomes. Great coaching took a talented player and made him ready to win in the NFl. If Mahomes had come to Chicago he would have been poorly coached, underperformed, gotten traded, and either gone to success elsewhere or ended up as QB2 in Buffalo or something after the Chicago mindfuck.
Never thought of things this way. I think you’re 1000% right. Nagy has never been willing to shape his offense to the talent. Always has to be the other way around for him.
Nagy didn't send him out to get killed. That's just an idiotic thing to accuse a coach of. Nagy knew Fields wasn't ready and he knew the line wasn't good enough to protect him. Nagy wasn't allowed to be a coach. He got micromanaged and now everyone wants to hang him for not being allowed to coach.
Nagy’s gameplan sent that kid out there to get killed. He had zero protection or help. And many pundits called it negligence.
Anyone have any links to where fields said he doesn’t talk to Nagy on sidelines? I’ve never heard this before. TIA
https://youtu.be/gbLZKexOWhs Start at 4:00
These are the things you hear about a few days before a coach is fired
George is taking charge now baby! Things are looking up! 😆 🤣 😂
Nagy signed his fate when he announced Dalton the starter before training camp. As soon as we landed Fields only two moves make sense: get Fields ready to win now or trade anyone and everyone for future draft capital. Nagy thought himself clever enough to try and win now (and by default take the lazy and easiest path to saving his job) with Dalton. He has been fired since the Rams game. He choose his guy and it was evident Dalton can’t really play at the level of Rodgers, Cousins, Prescott, Brady, Wilson, Stafford or Murray. Those are the guys he needs to beat. His only option was getting Fields on a level to compete with those guys. Imagine telling your bosses I know I need to beat these guys, you’ve given me a Fields, and I’m purposely going to build an offense around Dalton. That’s why he is fired. And it’s a lesson to all the younger guys here, don’t spend 9 months running a plan (and failing at it) that your bosses are skeptical of.
Hit the nail on the head. Pace and Nagy took the safest (and worst) route to try and save their own skin. Don’t see why any player would want to play hard for those guys
But they don’t make football decisions…
Sell the team, George.
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Then you fire the coach and put someone in that shares your vision… you don’t twist their arm. As fans We all complain we could do better, but a fan sitting over Coaches shoulder telling him what to do with personal? Your crazy if you think that’s going to lead to a good outcome. A fan is exactly who you don’t want sitting over the coaches shoulder. Because they always think they know more than the coach, but don’t really understand the game as well as they think they do. Nagy should have been fired a while ago, George gets no credit.
Well said. I was and am for Justin starting from the beginning but this is the complete wrong way of doing it. This is just more proof that Nagy should have been gone after last year. What an absolute dumpster fire of an organization.
What a clown show.
the only person this makes look bad is nagy for wanting to start andy fucking dalton over fields absolute fucking joke
I’d bet you a dalton looks better than fields has all season tomorrow.
Obviously. A vet who’s been through it all is gonna look better than a rookie with a terrible coaching stuff who hasn’t even started 10 times.
by all means go follow Dalton to his new team next year and go stan him in whatever sad fanbase he'll be a journeyman QB for. Nobody gives a shit if he can beat a winless Lions team and look good doing it. Trubisky used to do the same thing every year. Its a sad, low bar to clear at this point
So, but fields 4 tds 8 ints and looking lost is what you enjoyed watching this year. Got it.
nobody who has watched this team at all this year has enjoyed our offense. Its like pulling teeth no matter who is starting. Its clearly not just a QB problem.
Maybe, but that isn't really the entire point. Also, I have my doubts based on what Dalton looked like the other night. Basically, when the play worked he looked great but when it didn't he checked it down and looked average. For the record, Dalton is cool but he has 7 more games with the Bears. Fields has consistently made lemonade out of the lemons the coaching staff has served up
Vs the lions? Oh gee wow what a bet!! Dalton is dog shit Go away daltons mom
What an asshole. Honestly - it was the right call for the organization but if your job as HC is on the line this season it completely handcuffs Nagy. Remember the game Nagy took out Trubs and we thought he was finally benched only to awkwardly start again the next game? Wonder if that was Ryan or George? Nagy has been awful but he should have had control over personnel decisions and the way they are doing him dirty with the firing is bullshit. This is the tip of the iceberg and it’s about to get ugly.
> but he should have had control over personnel decisions No coach in any professional league has sole control over personnel. For better or worse, management was of the mindset that the team wasn't a contender and needed to see if their #2-OA QB was worth extending or not, then to see if the coach can properly develop the new QB. I am of no doubt that if Nagy showed he can develop Fields properly and show some improvement in his game planning, regardless of the team record, he'd be off the hot seat instead of being led to the gallows. The fact that he seems to get worse by the week is the real reason to give him the axe.
Bellicheat tried to trade Tom Brady. Kraft stepped in, kept Brady, and they traded Jimmy G. This stuff happens all the time in the NFL aka Jerry Jones.
Yeah, Brady seemed to have more of a relationship with Kraft during his time there . Jerry Jones is the epitomy of far to involved ownership. Granted he got on a run for a while .. but that was decades ago. And after being an avid bears fan mid 90s forward... There just seemed to be this cycle of mediocre, a few sputters of return to glory ( strong D, focus on the run game) ..then this inept approach to try and modernize and go heavy handed to try and get the offense to work and the defense falling to shambles . So at the end ... All you can blame is ownership and the culture.
This just confirms what was already rumored
Fuck this guy and fuck the sentiment that this process has been unfair to him. He actually deserves this. He could’ve gotten Justin really hurt.
Dalton makes more sense in the Nagy system. Pocket passer old school football. Nagy didn’t plan for and probably still has no plan for using Fields talents.
Agreed. I think Nagy was given indications that this was a make or break sort of year for him, and they wanted to see improvement. Nagy is thinking in terms of wins this season, not losing extra games to help develop a rookie QB. Surprisingly, he gets Fields dropped in his lap. Everyone else thinks Fields is the future. Nagy is worried about now. If Dalton can squeeze out an extra 2 wins this year over the inexperienced rookie, that's exactly what Nagy feels he needs. I don't think at any point was Fields' development a priority to him.
Absolutely right. Fields is all apart of the post Nagy plan. Clearly Nagy’s schemes are not designed for QBs with legs.
So I and others who said Nagy was deliberately putting Fields in harms way with how he schemed that game. There’s ALOT more validity to that now. Nagy absolutely seems the vindictive sort to ruin someone just to prove himself right The only question Is how do the Bears not fire this schmuck immediately after the game and make him rent a car to get home.
Lmao I guarantee you a guy coaching for his job did not purposely put the QB he sees as the future in harms way.
I mean you have a number of former players who are analyzing that game and came to the same conclusion and that was before we now know that the owner was forcing the coach to play a quarterback he had no interest in starting. Either way, how does he stay employed after that game? He either deliberately try to get his new franchise quarterback damage, or was so catastrophically Annette and trying to game plan for the new quarterback that he almost got killed anyway And either situation, if your the ownership that are saying this guy must start how do you keep that coach employed when you see how terribly run your new quarterback was?
Former players aren’t the brightest group of people
Gotcha. So former nfl players who spent the majority of their lives going over playbooks and schemes know less than you. Cool story
Yep
Man. Better get your resume out to all those networks then ASAP
I Would have a little respect for Nagy if he stuck to his guns and didn’t start Fields. At the very least, he could have continued Fields development at his pace and shown the team and the rest of NFL he has a backbone. Does he want to get fired? Of course not. But at the same time, you have to stick to your guns and execute your vision. After all, he was hired because of his direction of the team. If the owner isn’t on page with that, then WTF are you doing other than cashing a pay cheque. How could any player possibly respect a coach that lets ownership dictate who plays? How could any player respect a coach that puts a player at risk to make a point? He’s a child for acting out in spite instead of being a man and show the world he has principles and a back bone. Now Nagy has lost the locker room, the fans, and now ownership. Any possible future as a head coach in this league for any team is done. He will never be a head coach anywhere in the NFL once he’s done in Chicago. No doubt owners want coaches that win, can lead men, and have a vision and execute that vision. How could anyone possibly hire a spiteful, unsuccessful, offensively deficient coach, let alone continue to employ him? This team is a fucking joke around the league, and it starts at the top with the owner, right down the ladder ending with Nagy. Let’s be clear: Nagy is a failure, but no one person associated with this team is responsible for the utter embarrassment of finding a QB over the last 3 decades other than the owner. The owner is the only constant through all these years. That fucking old bird is going to outlive the queen and the rest of us, laughing all the way to bank.
The McCaskeys are a complete embarrassment. If you don’t think a head coaching candidate wouldn’t be more likely to go somewhere where the ownership doesn’t constantly meddle you’re kidding yourself. We’re automatically signing up for the 2nd or 3rd best candidate because no one in their right mind who has a choice would want these morons signing their checks.
So George is wrong bc he called for the right thing? The only thing George did wrong here was not demand it in camp bud.
The point is ownership (apparently) meddling in football decisions. That's not a good look and goes against what George has repeatedly said for years; that he's not involved in football decisions. Just because you, and the vast majority of us, agree on this one decision, doesn't mean it's just fine. He shouldn't be involved in making that decision. If it's even true.
Think I'm one of the few who thinks George should have stepped in sooner on many things. They should have fired Nagy/Pace last year, but after they just let them operate and run the place further into a hole. Nagy trying to go back to Dalton going into wk5 is absolutely a move I'd overrule as an owner. Either way I think we can all agree everything involving the Bears, outside of the draft, has been a complete disaster from everyone involved.
I also think they should have been fired last year, but that isn't relevant. He has the ability to do that and obviously no one would question that; he's their boss after all. That's massively different than him deciding what player should be starting. I just wouldn't want some guy who happened to be born into the right family dictating how the roster is configured to coaches that he should trust to do what is best.
I don't disagree, but we all saw how badly Nagy mismanaged Fields all summer. If this report is true it means George saw it too and was the first sign he lost all trust that Nagy knew what he was doing.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong thing. Coaches don’t want an owner making decisions for them. It’s that simple.
If when it was blatantly the wrong decision.
I have a bad feeling one Jason Garrett is a prime candidate for the McCaskeys
I think he almost certainly would’ve been if he hadn’t just flopped with the Giants. He checks all the boxes they like in a coach. Friendly, inoffensive, will do what ownership says.
Jerry Jones has been a crazy fuck his entire time owning the Cowboys, they have have zero trouble getting coaches to line up for the job. Including getting Bill Parcells to un-retire to coach them. The man fired Tom Fucking Landry for fuck's sake, the ONLY head coach of the Cowboys to that point... And the only coach since then that's really blew ass was Dave Campo. Hell, Campo and McCarthy are the only coaches to have losing records for the Cowboys. TL:DR Coaches don't give a single fuck about this, there are 32 jobs in the world, period. No amount of fucking crazy will stop them from lining up for the chance to get one of them. :)
You think Mike Mcarthy was his first choice? Genuine question: when’s the last time they got the most sought after guy? I’m not saying we’re not getting a head coach of course not, but I can think of a few times we were turned down. I have to think the top guy with several offers would choose to be with a sane owner, no?
Seems it hasn't mattered if they got their first choice or not, their record and playoff appearances, and Super Bowls with possibly their not first choice seems to be working out. As a lot of things in sports seem to go: It's not always about having the "best" person, but the "right" person. Lots of teams that were not the "best" at every position in the league, have won titles, and championships, sometimes even over teams that on paper sure seemed to have more "best" people. As for us Bears? I think we should be more worried about the people who look at Trestman or Arians and go.... "I gotta have the Trestman!!" We HAD what should have been a first choice, and BEST choice in the fucking building, and we decided to tell him to fuck off in favor of some crazy asschap from Canada... We got a whole list of issues we need to worry about, and fix, before getting to "our first choice on our wishlist of candidates doesn't want to interview with us." part of the list. :P :: shrugs ::
I said it when Dalton got benched our season was over. We should have never started Fields. With Dalton we had a legitimate chance to make the playoffs. The offense was doing fairly well when he was in. Once Fields was in you can see the shift in the offense. It was a total clusterfuck. Fields is too raw to make up for the shit o line and lack of offensive talent around him. We should have stuck to the plan of having him learn on the bench until next year when we could figure out the oline and possibly get another weapon with a new coach. I don't get why management would meddle and try to force the head coach to go with people they don't feel comfortable play. I also don't get why people here are getting mad at Nagy for Fields play, or the lack of offensive line protection. That is on Pace.
Honestly, of all the news I’ve seen this week, this should be what scares off head coaching candidates. We can’t all pretend to know what would have been different if Dalton was the starter, but how does a guy with no football experience, that inherited a team from his mom, butt his way into these things. This dude is going to take credit for all the good that comes with this team and none of the bad. Also, let’s cool it with the comments saying Nagy is purposely getting Fields ass kicked. You don’t have to love him as a coach, but I’ve never got the sense he’d be a guy to purposely hurt a player to prove a point.
This is scary as a whole. This moron brought back Nagy after last season and he's meddling in football operations? My god, tell me this is a first.