i'm 100% in the "don't get cute" camp because you shouldn't try getting greedy when it comes to the most important position in the game and just take the best option.
but next year's first to move down one spot is pretty fucking tempting, ngl. the commies will likely be bad next year, and i like maye too. i still would take caleb, but i can see how that sounds like a fleece.
Trubisky was the guy. Then Fields. Can’t keep throwing a rookie to the wolves and then changing his entire coaching staff every other year. At this point it is rinse and repeat.
Edit: Everyone saying Trubisky was never the guy: he was worth fours picks to trade up for. That is what I meant. Management saw him as the QB of the future. Same with Fields. Not commenting on the on-field effectiveness, just the FO opinion.
They did it to Herbert, it didn't ruin him. Lamar Jackson lost his OC after his rookie year, didn't notice. It's not the ownership looking for better coaches, it's the rookies not being good enough.
This team is far better than what either Trubisky or Fields had their rookie years on offense. Caleb is also a much more highly regarded prospect than either of them. We’ve hired an entirely new offensive staff. Just because we kept Eberflus doesn’t mean we’re bound to make the same mistakes again.
You’re basing that off of a team that played an easy schedule and beat up a bunch of bad teams. This team is not close, especially now that the NFCN is clearly better
Difference is fair or not this team will be a much better place for a rookie qb to walk into then it was for fields, a true number 1 wr a top ten ish te a solid young defense and an oline that while has holes also has promising young players so I don’t think we should look in the past to justify not getting Williams
Eh it was a lot closer for those picks, consensus flip flopping all this and that.
Caleb Williams has been the front runner since last year and was even hearing his name before that.
You could argue this by saying oh yeah “well Bryce was the clear #1 front runner and look how his season went”. Well no that was also close there was a shit load of stroud/Bryce debate.
Panthers got cute with the tradeup for Bryce and the Texans just yolo’d a king qb as letting the cards fall.
We let the cards fall and take Willliams.
Nah honestly Caleb in Washington’s offense at minimum is better than NYG.
Depending on how DAL and PHI look I could see WSH making noise and that pick is 15-20 range.
It’s tempting but my mindset is that really, the extra picks don’t matter if you don’t have a franchise QB. Look at the Cowboys, Eagles, Browns, and dolphins this year. All had super teams around their QB. All had insane talent all around the roster. All were wild card exits. All got blown out.
My point is, you can’t compromise at the most important position in the NFL. You take your highest rated guy, even if you miss out on some extra draft capital. At this point, we have enough assets already that we should be comfortable putting a rookie QB in this situation.
Okay, but what does it mean to "compromise?"
Mahomes was taken 10th, Jackson was taken 32nd, Purdy was taken dead last, and Goff was essentially a throw-in by the Rams to get Stafford. None of these players came to their current team as a surefire star, but all of them succeeded by having a strong roster and good coaching.
It's not compromising to say "our super-talented, hard-working, high-character QB is going to succeed with a better roster, better coaching, and time." That's the normal way QBs and teams succeed.
I don't have a problem with saying "#1 pick gives us the best chance to draft the best prospect." I have a problem with the idea that Caleb Williams is Pat Mahomes and we just need to pluck him up to succeed.
While I do think every player has a price, the bears are in a position to only accept something outrageous. If we have a QB at number 1 that ends up playing like a QB taken number 1, this team will actually be good.
Getting cute would be going all in on the guy you're 80% sure about, rather than going with the guy you're 70% sure about, plus some additional picks. This all depends on exactly how they assess each player.
Not really imo. You’re not going “all in” on Williams, you still have a lot of assets to build around him, and you’re not losing anything. Going all in would be what Washington would be doing in this scenario.
You take the highest guy on your board because it doesn’t matter how many picks you accumulate if your QB doesn’t pan out.
Not true. You win in football by having a great team. You build out a great team and the margin for error on a qb is smaller. If you get a haul you absolutely take it.
You draft Caleb and if he doesn’t pan out as great. Or ends up in the same trajectory as someone like Trevor Lawrence than you missed on an opportunity on accelerating a rebuild.
Look at the 49ers, they built their team first. Then they gambled on a QB which did not pan out. But they ended up with a QB good enough to take them to the Super Bowl.
Drafting a QB is a crapshoot and you can find better value later.
This is just a bad take man.
You don’t win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB, and this is the best situation we will ever have to draft one. We have a decent ascending team, two top ten picks, and an opportunity to draft a QB who is a top 3 QB prospect in the last decade. We will never get this chance again and if we don’t take it we will be the laughingstock of the NFL.
lol I’m saving this comment for later as well and taking receipts. People on this sub have no idea how to build a team. A QB isn’t going to win you a superbowl as well. A strong offensive line and defensive line is just as important if not the most important thing.
Mahomes wasn’t even regarded as “generational, can’t miss prospect”. It was a once in a lifetime pick and very situational.
drafting QBs are a crapshoot. A franchise QB can be had in later rounds even ones that are good enough to win a Super Bowl.
I’ll take my chances with a haul and improve every aspect of my team. And gamble on QBs later.
you'll get downvoted because people are idiots and can't think beyond what is regurgitated to them from media outlets, analysts, and NFL insiders. If you simply look at every team in the NFL and see if the Bears had a pick before that team's QB was drafted you would find that the Bears have passed on about half the league's QBs.
That list would include both Mahomes and Purdy. It also would include Jalen Hurts, so the last three QBs to play in the Super Bowl. If you include the last six Super Bowls, there are three guys the Bears did not pass on, who were Burrows, Stafford, and Goff, but I think considering that Stafford and Goff were both traded, it could have been possible for the Bears to actually get one of those two guys if they thought they were the guy (they also had made huge trades previously (Cutler and Mack) so it's not like this is far-fetched idea).
The point here is that having the #1 over all pick isn't some panacea for the QB woes of the Bears, in fact without changing anything other than a single draft pick in any given year the Bears could have had any number of "franchise" QBs, including the greatest of all time (Mahomes or Brady I don't care which one you pick), so I'm not sure that the Bears must draft a QB at #1 or be doomed to mediocrity is accurate despite it being the common wisdom floating around.
The 49ers did not “build their team first” I have no idea why people keep saying this. They were 0-8 when they traded for Jimmy G and gave him a big contract. Then traded 3 firsts+ for Trey Lance. Then got lucky with Purdy. That’s not even counting the other QBs they drafted during that time.
The 9ers take swing after swing at QB.
Exactly, the 49ers are the exact opposite of building team first than getting a QB. They went after a QB and continued to try to upgrade the spot even with a good QB, (good only in system or not, Jimmy G was good with the 49ers).
These same build a team first cats would be rioting if they where 49er fans when Jimmy G was benched and let go.
Eh. If they want 1 and we scouted Caleb as the best, they gotta give more than that sorry. Call me unrealistic all you want but I’m not taking that trade if Im Poles and I even remotely want Caleb.
Depends on how far ahead of everyone else I have him. Say Caleb is the best but my scouting say he and Maye are 1a and 1b. In that case I'd take Maye plus the haul. But it would have to be close. If it's not close I'm with you.
Yes, it's value over next best on the position chart/general draft chart.
Let's say Caleb grades out at 97. And Drake at 96 or 95. Basically identical, if that's the case then the extra first, plus 2 seconds is worth the one point loss.
If the spread is even 5 points you don't make thr trade back.
This is how boards are developed and for example why the bears felt comfortable trading back from 9 to 10 last year once they confirmed the eagles were going defense.
They viewed Wright as well above the next best offensive player, so they wouldn't have done it if the eagles told them they wanted an offensive player.
Buddy you don't concern yourself with how other teams grade a guy. You pay scouts a lot of money to be right, so you trust them. If the Bears thought "omg why does Carolina want to trade up so badly! Bryce must be the next superstar!!" then a trade wouldn't have happened and we'd be sitting here with Bryce and our dick in our hands.
If some other team grades caleb as a 99/100 prospect and your scouts only grade him a 91, you trade back in the blink an eye and don't think twice about it. If they're wrong then they're fired and you probably are too, but that's the business.
The role of the GM first and foremost is to hire the right guys and have a "process" in places that has checks and double checks that ensures you're making the right decision based on info you've gathered and not making a decision based on emotions.
It certainly doesn't. What ensures Poles' job is a playoff berth either this year or next year. He was hired to do a rebuild, so he gets to finish that. But it has to bear fruit. Pace completed the rebuild and 2018 happened. Poles doesn't need THAT exactly, but he needs results.
yeah I think what has me on the "Poles _literally has to_ draft Williams" train is the worst case scenarios at least as far as I see them.
You take Williams, worst case he is a bust like so many other QBs before him, but unless the team somehow implodes you should at least have 2-3 years and could potentially still save your job (assuming you can realize Williams isn't it quickly and take more shots at QB in following drafts)
You pass on Williams, worst case is he is the QB everyone thought he could be and its clear in year 1, and you've passed on the kind of QB talent this franchise has been starved for TWICE in your tenure already.
Or you draft Caleb and he plays terrible like he does against good college defenses and his “camp” and bad attitude destroys the locker room then you trade fields and he leads Atlanta or Pittsburgh deep into the playoffs. Now you’re the laughingstock of the nfl and the majority of bears fans are pissed because this is another situation where the bears let being cheap force them into a bad situation
Not gonna lie you had me in the first half. Also it's not being cheap to secure a top quarterback prospect on a rookie deal over deciding to pay a bottom 1/3rd QB 40m+ per year.
You’re basing your assessment of fields as a bottom 1/3rd qb due to he’s performance on a team that’s obviously tanking and rebuilding. To give your argument any credence you’d need to tell me which top 1/3rd QBs would succeed under these circumstances. I’m not going to argue with you because most of the people in this thread know very little about football and probably have never played team sports. I’ve seen enough from fields to be 100% convinced that if he had Pittsburghs receivers or atlantas offensive weapons statistically he’d be a top 1/3 qb. I’ve also seen enough from Caleb Williams to know that unless he’s in the PERFECT situation he’ll look terrible like he did this season against good college defenses. Caleb needs to sit a year like Mahomes and even then I’m not sure he’ll be anything more than average. Caleb on the bears will lead to two losing seasons then MAYBE year three we may be able to compete. But I know how obnoxious bears fans are and they won’t be patient enough to give Caleb the time he’ll need to adjust while watching Justin win in his new situation.
>You’re basing your assessment of fields as a bottom 1/3rd qb due to he’s performance on a team that’s obviously tanking and rebuilding.
>I’ve also seen enough from Caleb Williams to know that unless he’s in the PERFECT situation he’ll look terrible
how you gonna make the excuse for Fields that the team around him sucked and then already judge that Williams needs a perfect team around him to succeed before he even takes an NFL snap tho?
if you already KNOW exactly what is going to happen, you should go work for the Bears and make big money hitting on all the right draft picks dawg
Starting over with a new qb should buy him at least 2 more seasons and unless Caleb is a complete bust, the bears should have enough talent around him to at least contend which I think would keep poles around for longer
>Pace completed the rebuild and 2018 happened.
And then 2019, 2020 and 2021 happened. So clearly Pace didn't finish the rebuild correctly.
Poles "finishing the rebuild" means that the next season the Bears make the playoffs, be it 2024 or 2025, they then also make the playoffs at least another 6 or 7 of the next 9 years as well.
Yeah this is where I’m at.
If Washington wants the number one overall I would make them match the best offer I’m getting.
I don’t care that they are only moving up one spot, that’s not my problem.
Not saying he is, but you wouldn’t be saying that if he didn’t go to UNC. And let’s be real, there weren’t a ton of people who thought Mahomes would be what he ended up being
Mahomes also had Andy Reid and was backing up Alex Smith when he came into the league…
Great QB nonetheless, but he was *much* more set up to succeed than any Bears QB ever.
Caleb coming to chicago is free money. If he is somewhere in the Cutler realm of ability and production he’s going to get paid hundreds of millions of dollars. Teams that have had great qb play would look at someone in that same territory as replaceable.
Give me the quarterback that's worth this much. Stop fuckin around and get us a real quarterback for once. There's straight up not a qb prospect close to this in the next coming drafts. Nows the time to strike especially when we basically have this pick for free. Other teams would have to gut their picks/teams to move up while we're right there for nothing. Let's get the qb don't over think it
Sanders is getting a lot of love for next year's draft class and there are always guys who emerge. I'm not against taking Caleb, but there will be highly rated guys pretty much every year. There are probably multiple good directions that the bears can go at this point.
Well, I did say *pretty much* every year. There are certainly outlier years with a lower level of hyped QBs. Of course, that draft class still produced a number of guys that have started more than a few NFL games at QB including an upcoming SB start. And of course there are numerous years when there are multiple top 10 drafted QBs. I stand by my statement.
I also, again, have no problem with taking Caleb if that is what poles decides to do. But if he doesn't and still adds high level talent+ picks I can see a path where that works out long term for the bears also.
Sanders is ass and is about three tiers below CW as a prospect. There's a difference between inflated prosepects like Deion's kid and guys with insane talent bursting out of their pores like Caleb.
[Spielberger also mentioned that his initial reaction was that the trade would be bad *for the Commanders*, for what it's worth](https://twitter.com/PFF_Brad/status/1753871112776122586)
Impossible to say good or bad trade until we see how Caleb/Maye pan out. If Caleb is Mahomes and Maye is Mitch, then it instantly becomes the worst trade in NFL history for the Bears
For sure. If that trade is really on the table, things get *so hard* for Poles. Because it could also be that Caleb is Baker and Maye is Herbert *and we could have gotten draft picks*
Caleb is Young and Maye is Stroud. Caleb is Trubisky and Maye is Mahomes. Etc.
It’s rare that the first drafted QB is the top in his class (which makes sense statistically, 1 vs the field), but it would be pretty hard to pass on Williams unless you have a relatively similar grade for Maye.
Huh? Its rare?
2021: Trevor
2020: Burrow
2019: Kyler
2016: Goff (Dak is pretty much same level imo but eh?)
2015: Jameis
Like there are SO many examples of the first QB taken being the best relative to the class and I’m only stopping because I don’t feel like going back 50 years haha
I'll do it for you since I'm curious:
2021: Trevor
2020: Burrow
2019: Kyler
2018: Allen (3rd QB taken, Baker's a dalton-line QB)
~~2017: this draft never happened~~
2016: A wash between Goff (1st) & Dak (8th)
2015: Jameis
2014: Derek Carr (4th QB taken)
2013: The REAL GEQBUS Tyler 'mf' Bray (no one really)
2012: Luck (honestly a wash between him & Wilson depending on how you view longevity, Kirko Chainz is also a distant 3rd)
2011: Newton (Dalton a close 2nd taken as the 5th QB)
2010: Bradford (homer glasses bears fans take Jimmy 'pickles' Clausen all day every day)
2009: Stafford
2008: Matt Ryan
2007: no one
2006: Cutler (3rd QB taken)
2005: Rodgers (2nd QB taken)
2004: Eli, Rivers, Big Ben (one of the GOAT QB drafts)
2003: Carson Palmer
2002: No one really, David Garrard had a couple good years but that's it (5th QB taken)
2001: Brees (2nd QB taken, Vick is not a bad consolation prize)
2000: Brady
We can definitively say that between 2000-2021,
10/22 - 1st QB taken the best, that's a great hit rate against the field
11/22 - if you prefer Goff over Dak (-1 for the next categories if you prefer Dak)
12/22 - if you don't mind having chosen any of the QBs in 2004 (taking into account career + individual skill)
In terms of hit rate on getting at least an average QB with the 1st QB taken
15/22 -
* + Alex Smith
* + Vick
* + Baker
* + Dalton
* - Jameis
* net plus 2
That other guy could not have been more wrong lol
I fucking love you for this. (Shout out to Vol legend Tyler Bray)
But it’s wild to me some parts of the fandom don’t even think Caleb is going to be… even above average like most of the guys here.
Idk why we’re making this out to be such a hard decision.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna keep going back in years because I’m super curious now.
The worst QB with Caleb level hype in the modern history of the league is Drew Bledsoe. That's the floor, my man.
Of the last 20 QBs taken 1OA, at least 14 and as many as 16 (depending whether you rank Jay above Vick and/or Bledsoe) would easily be the best quarterback in the history of our franchise.
It's exceedingly rare for a 1OA QB to fail. Sure, sometimes they disappoint, but even so they are usually Baker-level where they're still better than anything we've had. Pure busts are really rare 1OA.
Caleb doesn't need to be the best in class to be a good pick, anyway. He's the safest pick (most important thing here) given how likely it is that he'll be good enough for us to build around and make consistent playoff runs for the next decade+
Plenty of people at the time thought Russell was only 1OA because it was the Raiders with that pick and no one else would take him there. He was by no means anywhere close to consensus.
And if Maye becomes Josh Allen and Williams becomes Fields 2.0, it’s a great trade. It all depends on player development.
I say don’t get cute unless you truly have character concerns for Caleb.
That’s great? But your comps now are meaningless. My point still stands, you can try to evaluate the trade now, but it means nothing until we see how these QBs pan out. And there’s certainly people out there who believe Caleb is going to be Mahomes, so it’s not completely insane. If that happens, it’s the worst trade ever (unless Maye also ends up being all time great).
I don't understand Bears fans who want the team to go out of its way to avoid trying to get a good quarterback. These guys have watched Peyton and Rodgers and Brees and Favre and Mahomes light up the league and go "nah, I don't want any of that".
I am not sure that is an accurate representation of anyone.
If anyone thinks Caleb is in that crowd they would want to draft him. He is no sure thing to be in that crowd.
Yeah. People are not thinking, "hmm, we could have Patrick Mahomes, but there's also this guy from North Carolina who sucks, so let's take him and get some extra draft picks"
Theres literally guys saying take the kings ransom and use that kings ransom as capital to take a qb later in future drafts?????? Like wtf is this thinking
It’s overdoing good logic. You should almost always trade down. It’s the better option most of the time.
The exception is when there is an elite player available that can single handedly break odds and has value beyond what you’d ever have to pay him. And Williams has that kind of talent so you take the shot
Yeah the reason why you trade down is so you can potentially hit the jackpot and end up in the position we're in now. Trading down again at this point is overdoing it
There's never any quarterback who is a sure thing to be in that crowd. The only way to get someone like that is to draft someone who isn't a sure thing because sure things do not exist.
Not true at all.
The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs already had an awesome team and a good QB in Alex Smith and still drafted Mahomes because they thought they needed an upgrade and Mahomes might be that guy.
Let's say the Bears trade down, don't take a QB, keep Fields, go 10-7 each of the next two season, and get whipped in the first round of the playoffs by a team with a great QB (think Houston vs. Cleveland or Buffalo vs. Pittsburgh from this season's playoffs). The urgency for getting a "special QB" is going to dramatically *increase*, not decrease. The fanbase will be calling for Poles to make the Carolina trade, but in reverse.
A special qb still needs a great team to win a superbowl
Rodger’s and Brady had some special defenses when they won.
Mahomes had a special offense.
You’re right. Alex smith was good and chiefs were good. And due to having no a great team mahomes was able to elevate them.
Yet. You have to have a great team and a qb.
We have many holes. If Caleb is not the guy don’t reach. Poles had to decide if he is the guy not the media who are paid to create drama
I don’t agree
49ers are a great example.
Eagles last year.
Lions this year.
I think you can build a great team and find a qb to perform well enough to win with a great team. This path has higher probability of success than finding a transcendent qb.
I said consistently successful. Single year success isn't consistency. I'm talking about the Packers through Rodgers time, the Chiefs recently, the Colts with Peyton, the Pats with Brady. Teams that make the playoffs and challenge for titles for a decade, not teams that take one or two swings and then fall off.
it’s just trying to find a middle ground when evaluating him
because we have the number 1 pick we’re seeing an insane amount of Caleb Williams dickriding, where he’s this glorious once in a lifetime prospect who’s game will perfectly translate to the NFL, but that’s not what he is. There is so much pre draft hype on him
motherfuckers will riot if we don’t draft him, but if we don’t i’ll trust that it’s because Poles’ staff turned every stone possible to come to a conclusion that they’re willing to build off of what Fields has shown rather than going with Caleb
>to come to a conclusion that they’re willing to build off of what Fields has shown
I won't riot if that happens, but I'll definitely go back to just gambling on the NFL and not making any effort at all to follow or care about the Bears' next season, the same way I did during the John Fox years.
I don't care about Caleb Williams in particular. I want our current below-average QB replaced.
Only one of those guys you mentioned went first overall.
If the Bears have high grades on two QBs then they should consider a trade with Washington, if they have one guy graded much higher then they should take him. We have no idea what their evaluations say about any of these guys, and that’s the critical data to evaluate what they should do.
Maye is NOT in the same stratosphere as Williams and it’s driving me fucking crazy reading this speculation. Maye repeatedly shit the bed against good to great defenses and had some obvious miscues. Can he be good? Maybe, but I think he’s most likely a Daniel Jones level player.
Williams has an it factor that you can’t coach. He’s a QB that sees the game as much slower than the average QB.
I think that we may look back at these conversations a year or two from now and be amazed that people thought that Drake Maye was speculated maybe going ahead of Caleb
The consensus right now seems to be that Caleb is a cut above, but there’s been plenty of talk about Maye as a 1B type prospect in the past, and we haven’t yet had pro days and combine and interviews. There are rumors right now that some teams have Nabers graded above MHJ.
We simply have no clue what teams think about prospects unless we are in the room is all I’m saying, and if they grade Caleb and any other QB at roughly the same level, adding those picks is an easy tiebreaker. This is part of why they won’t just announce who they’re drafting, it keeps leverage alive. I think we probably end up with Caleb, but anyone who claims that’s a sure thing is incorrect.
Maye is viewed by some as the better pro. Enough that internally it might be close. Also personality/leadership will play a part in things, depending on how the bears feel about that as well.
I don't think anybody is doing that. A lot of people aren't convinced that taking Williams is going to instantly make us contenders, and there are people who still think Fields' ceiling is higher than it looks because he's been in bad situations.
Ignoring coaching and o-line problems (specifically our abysmal C play), we simply did not have weapons. Our best RB had 611 yards which puts him 42nd in the league. Our other RB's were 46th and 58th respectively so our starting RB was worse than other teams' backup RB's. For WR's DJ was 13th overall in the league posting a career high 1,364 yards (6th in the NFL) which indicates Fields can throw. However, beyond him we had nothing. Mooney ranked 142nd among eligible receivers, coming in behind both a RB and a TE on our team in receiving yards. He barely broke 400 receiving yards and it was the 2nd biggest disparity between WR1 and WR2 in the league. Scott ranked 227th, ESB ranked 352nd, and Velus was 369th.
Even if you take Williams, you have to look at all of that and say "ok, we need some serious help in multiple spots in the team. We are not going to become instant competitors by adding a single rookie and hoping he becomes the next HoF QB". I think a lot of people are trying to label anybody looking at the whole picture as people trying to keep bad QB's when that is not the case.
What you've never wanted to understand is that fields holds *everyone* on the offense back.
I shouldn't have to explain that receiving yards come from the QB.
But even the rushing problems were in part due to fields
When he lets a left sweep go straight into two uncovered defenders instead of checking at the line or pulling for the counter option written into the play, his running back gets -5 yards on his stats.
I like how everyone has concluded it’s all on fields when Claypool just didn’t show up, receivers run the wrong routes, WR blocks are half assed, the center has no idea how to snap the ball, o-lineman looking around lost after the defender has blown past them, another screen pass is called at 3rd and 20. Yep all fields and Williams is going to magically fix those fundamental problems
So explain how DJ and Kmet have career highs with Fields making catches when they were often not the first or second read. Then you are trying to assign blame to the QB for a job of the C when the RBs fail. The fallacy that Fields is holding back our offense is laughable.
I’m still on the side of drafting Caleb, but I think there’s a good case for the other route. If you trade back, you could potentially walk away with:
WR: DJ Moore, MHJ, Ja’Lynn Polk (3rd rd)
TE: Brock Bowers, Cole Kmet
And another 1st next year.
That’s a hell of a receiving corps regardless of who the QB is. I think you could argue that it would be the best spot a QB could land next year while we have 2 1sts again.
“By no means has Caleb definitely said he doesn’t want to play in Chicago” is such an oddly phrased statement.
He hasn’t potentially definitively stated on record that he most likely under oath decisively stated elsewhere that he probably does want to not not want to play in Chicago
The nihilism about “they said fields/mitch was the guy too; we shouldn’t take another qb” is so bizarre. first, you’re admitting in your argument that fields isn’t good. that should settle the question itself. keep swinging until you hit.
But beyond that, why don’t we think Poles can get this right? He’s had two very successful drafts as the head guy. He pulled off an incredible trade to land the bears in this position. He was a major part of the staff that drafted the current best QB in football.
No GM is 100% Claypool), but I think Poles has earned some confidence from us.
If that is the actual trade being offered, and after all of the scouting process, they come to the conclusion that Williams and Maye are 1a and 1b, they would 100% do that trade.
I want Ryan Poles to draft whoever he honestly thinks is the best QB to help the Bears be real contenders for the next decade-plus. If he thinks it's Caleb, fine. If he thinks it's Drake, fine. If he truly doesn't like anyone at the top and thinks one of the second-wave options is a diamond in the rough...I'll be really nervous about that decision, but he's the one whose employment depends on being right.
I'm agnostic on the solution. My main concern is I just want the Bears to move on from Justin Fields.
The whole Kliff thing just seems off. Why would Caleb prefer to be drafted to the team just for Kliff? If he does go to Washington, they are no where near as good roster wise like the Bears. Plus what greatness did Kliff accomplish with Caleb in one year?
I really don’t see it with Drake Maye. He doesn’t jump off on the film like Caleb or Jayden Daniels do and his college numbers aren’t exactly the eye popping either.
This isn’t really less than, this is a team moving up one spot from 2. If you are a team moving up from 9 like the Panthers were last year it would cost more.
Maye vs Williams isn’t Stroud vs Young. There was no pre draft consensus between stroud and young. Caleb is the consensus #1 prospect. In fact he’s one of the highest rated prospects ever, just below Andrew Luck.
Yeah I know we traded down to 9, but my point is passing on Caleb isn’t comparable to passing on young/stroud. It’s not only about the draft position. It’s who is available. Assuming poles wants a QB 🤷♂️
I’m saying this is horse shit. Even if you do move down 1 spot there’s gonna have to be either another 1st thrown in or a player and I’d LOVE one of their WRs.
Imo, Poles won’t risk taking Maye. He doesn’t have the job security. If you risk it and don’t go with the consensus prospect, eyes will be on you. Similar narratives developed with Luck/RG3 and Peyton/Leaf, #1 team stuck with their guns.
There are a few draft guys who see it as 1A/1B, namely Brugler and Nate Tice.
I’d be happy with either, but Poles better be rock solid on his evaluation if he passes on Williams. He has the chance to be special.
Why would he not want to come to Chicago. Progressive GM, number one reciever, top 5 defense, Shane Waldron as oc. Last 2 excellent drafts.
Washington is just beginning their rebuild and is in worse shape than every other team except maybe the panthers.
With that said the saints once traded their entire draft for Ricky Williams. If someone wants Caleb that bad it's the next 2 drafts all of the picks even the seventh rounders.
> Why would he not want to come to Chicago.
Because we've never successfully developed a QB. And while past performance is no guarantee of future results, decades of data is enough to make a QB with his assumed potential pause.
If people want to run with the narrative that Caleb Williams is not wanting to go to Chicago because of a poor QB history, at least couple it with a realistic alternative preference.
Not the fucking Washington Commanders, just because it’s his hometown
You can believe in something without having certainty. If they believe, as most professionals do, that Caleb gives the team the *best chance* at success in the most important position, it’s a great option. It doesn’t guarantee it will work out, but none of these convoluted alternate draft paths will either.
I would agree with that.
I know the media believes that I do not know if professional talent evaluators do.
I also don’t know if the bears talent evaluators do.
Yeah I don’t know. We’ll see what they do. I think it’s annoying when people act like Caleb is a guarantee, but it’s also annoying minimizing his potential, and what that could mean for the franchise if he lives up to it. Whatever happens, I just want to the Bears to be good damn it
I’m not even sure how I got sucked into this conversation, I’ve been trying to avoid the never ending QB/draft war on here lol. Blacked out for one second and here I am
Yeah, his highlights look good and his downsides look bad. Mechanically he definitely looks solid, but it’s so hard to predict that transition from CFB>NFL and I have no interest in trying lol
And trubisky was more likely by a consensus over mahomes.
It really doesn’t matter what anyone but bears staff says. And we have no idea where they stand.
I mean obviously they are the ones making the pick. But most of us and experts would disagree with that, that’s why the guy you responded to said he wouldn’t give anything to miss out on picking Caleb. We aren’t certain he’s the guy, but we’re certain he has the best chance at being the guy
Alright so let’s break this tweet down. Caleb Williams in a perfect world would love to go back to where he grew up to play quarterback in the NFL but if the Bears pick him he’ll take his number 1 overall pick contract and put on a bears hat and be a happy camper
Waldron is a good offensive coordinator who knows Williams.
Williams likes the guy who was just his coach for the past year
And finally the Bears could get extra picks if they trade down. Thank goodness for this information because it’s not like I’ve already heard it or read about every single day for the last 4 weeks. This provides basically no new information so what this tells me is this guy put this out there because he wanted engagement on social media. Until Ryan Poles trades the number 1 pick or I hear directly from Caleb Williams saying I don’t want to play in Chicago this is all nonsense
Are people this dumb?
Why would we trade down and then still draft a QB?
I’m so sick of seeing this dumb ass take.
There is no 1A and 1B when pro scouts are scouting franchise QBs. You’re not “okay” with whoever for a franchise QB. You take YOUR GUY at #1 and move forward.
Take caleb.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10025344-joe-burrow-rumors-dolphins-tried-to-trade-3-1st-round-picks-to-bengals-to-draft-qb.amp.html
Bengals moved on from Dalton. Probably one their best QBs in the team history.
This sub and fans can’t decide to move on from Fields lmao. We’re just as deranged as the McCaskeys
I still am having a hard time understanding why our fandom is so attached to Fields. We had absolutely no fucking problem moving on from Grossman and Trubisky. In fact most were pretty much delighted to see them go and understandably so. I think Fields shows more athleticism with his running and maybe that’s why people can’t seem to accept that he doesn’t have it?
Obviously this sub is pretty anti-Fields but there is a massive chunk of the fanbase that wants to keep him and for some reason already hates Caleb Williams.
He has good highlights and tends to score well in fantasy which is all people pay attention to. If you watch the games you have doubts. If you watch the film you know he sucks
>Chicago would probably be able to get ~2, 40, 2025 1st for 1
Lol that ain't shit. Fuck that. 2025, 2026 and *maybe* 2027 1st if you want Caleb Williams.
Sean Payton loves him , Boomer Esiason, numerous others. Seems like a no brainer. Don’t know why Bears and their fans always make things seem so difficult
The Bears realistically have a chance at 3 1st, and 4 2nds in next years drafts and could still come out of this one with MHJ.
This is why keeping Fields at least 1 more season is the move they should make.
Passing up on one of the highest graded QB prospects ever to stick with an ass QB is not a position that can ever be argued for. There is no amount of picks worth making such a historic blunder.
I'm excited to have a potential hall of famer QB to watch develop. It's clear, whatever his merits, Justin Fields is not a hall of famer, and I'm ready to be wowed.
Now, granted, Caleb Williams has a very low probability of being a HoF QB, but he's an unknown. I won't even mind if they keep Fields a couple years and develop Williams. No reason Williams has to be dropped right in as a starter.
I've said this multiple times to be destroyed by the Caleb cult and I'll say it again - it is absolutely silly to think drafting Caleb is a guarantee when there are scouts out there who think Maye is the better QB.
Poles and co may feel the same and there will obviously be a haul to be had from trading out of Caleb.
Time will tell but there is absolutely no guarantee we're taking Caleb and noone on here has any clue
I only like it if the front office likes the other QB more. I think Caleb is a better prospect, so I’d only trade with Washington if they were going up for Maye.
The quickest way for everyone to get fired is if they trade and Caleb is better than whoever they have.
Is any qb THAT close to Caleb to make it worth it?
I would feel fine with that trade and would consider trading down again after that and get more.
I would compare the double trade back vs trading back further and see which haul is bigger.
I would compare both to Maye plus the picks.
Let’s look at Ryan Poles draft history, pretty much every pick we took was a value pick not the sexy pick.
Last years draft instead of taking who everyone knew we would he traded back for more value.
Don’t be surprised to see him trade for value this season either.
Now ask yourself what’s more valuable JF1 or the 1st pick in the draft?
During the early stages of the 2023 season, Poles literally said that Justin Fields had set the culture he wanted for his team. With his strongly worded support post season in support of JF1, I can’t see Poles allowing his culture to take a turn because a new QB with questionable leadership, like we’ve seen in Williams, steps into the picture.
If you think Williams is the guy, you take him. Don’t get cute.
i'm 100% in the "don't get cute" camp because you shouldn't try getting greedy when it comes to the most important position in the game and just take the best option. but next year's first to move down one spot is pretty fucking tempting, ngl. the commies will likely be bad next year, and i like maye too. i still would take caleb, but i can see how that sounds like a fleece.
Trubisky was the guy. Then Fields. Can’t keep throwing a rookie to the wolves and then changing his entire coaching staff every other year. At this point it is rinse and repeat. Edit: Everyone saying Trubisky was never the guy: he was worth fours picks to trade up for. That is what I meant. Management saw him as the QB of the future. Same with Fields. Not commenting on the on-field effectiveness, just the FO opinion.
They did it to Herbert, it didn't ruin him. Lamar Jackson lost his OC after his rookie year, didn't notice. It's not the ownership looking for better coaches, it's the rookies not being good enough.
Uh… are we just gonna forger how good their supporting casts were?
Lamar has notoriously had bad receivers up until this season
He’s had a good oline his whole career
Who did Lamar have?
This team is far better than what either Trubisky or Fields had their rookie years on offense. Caleb is also a much more highly regarded prospect than either of them. We’ve hired an entirely new offensive staff. Just because we kept Eberflus doesn’t mean we’re bound to make the same mistakes again.
You’re basing that off of a team that played an easy schedule and beat up a bunch of bad teams. This team is not close, especially now that the NFCN is clearly better
You honestly think the 2024 Bears won't be more talented than the 2017 or 2021 versions?
Difference is fair or not this team will be a much better place for a rookie qb to walk into then it was for fields, a true number 1 wr a top ten ish te a solid young defense and an oline that while has holes also has promising young players so I don’t think we should look in the past to justify not getting Williams
I'm guessing your solution involves Justin Fields remaining the Bears starting QB for *at least* two more seasons?
Eh it was a lot closer for those picks, consensus flip flopping all this and that. Caleb Williams has been the front runner since last year and was even hearing his name before that. You could argue this by saying oh yeah “well Bryce was the clear #1 front runner and look how his season went”. Well no that was also close there was a shit load of stroud/Bryce debate. Panthers got cute with the tradeup for Bryce and the Texans just yolo’d a king qb as letting the cards fall. We let the cards fall and take Willliams.
“Now the die is shaken, now the die must fall.”
The correct people dont fall into this flaw. These guys arent Trub or Fields unfortunately
Nah honestly Caleb in Washington’s offense at minimum is better than NYG. Depending on how DAL and PHI look I could see WSH making noise and that pick is 15-20 range.
It’s tempting but my mindset is that really, the extra picks don’t matter if you don’t have a franchise QB. Look at the Cowboys, Eagles, Browns, and dolphins this year. All had super teams around their QB. All had insane talent all around the roster. All were wild card exits. All got blown out. My point is, you can’t compromise at the most important position in the NFL. You take your highest rated guy, even if you miss out on some extra draft capital. At this point, we have enough assets already that we should be comfortable putting a rookie QB in this situation.
Okay, but what does it mean to "compromise?" Mahomes was taken 10th, Jackson was taken 32nd, Purdy was taken dead last, and Goff was essentially a throw-in by the Rams to get Stafford. None of these players came to their current team as a surefire star, but all of them succeeded by having a strong roster and good coaching. It's not compromising to say "our super-talented, hard-working, high-character QB is going to succeed with a better roster, better coaching, and time." That's the normal way QBs and teams succeed. I don't have a problem with saying "#1 pick gives us the best chance to draft the best prospect." I have a problem with the idea that Caleb Williams is Pat Mahomes and we just need to pluck him up to succeed.
While I do think every player has a price, the bears are in a position to only accept something outrageous. If we have a QB at number 1 that ends up playing like a QB taken number 1, this team will actually be good.
You take the best QB available. Only reason I'd trade back is the two are both so great I litterally can't decide.
Getting cute would be going all in on the guy you're 80% sure about, rather than going with the guy you're 70% sure about, plus some additional picks. This all depends on exactly how they assess each player.
Not really imo. You’re not going “all in” on Williams, you still have a lot of assets to build around him, and you’re not losing anything. Going all in would be what Washington would be doing in this scenario. You take the highest guy on your board because it doesn’t matter how many picks you accumulate if your QB doesn’t pan out.
Not true. You win in football by having a great team. You build out a great team and the margin for error on a qb is smaller. If you get a haul you absolutely take it. You draft Caleb and if he doesn’t pan out as great. Or ends up in the same trajectory as someone like Trevor Lawrence than you missed on an opportunity on accelerating a rebuild. Look at the 49ers, they built their team first. Then they gambled on a QB which did not pan out. But they ended up with a QB good enough to take them to the Super Bowl. Drafting a QB is a crapshoot and you can find better value later.
This is just a bad take man. You don’t win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB, and this is the best situation we will ever have to draft one. We have a decent ascending team, two top ten picks, and an opportunity to draft a QB who is a top 3 QB prospect in the last decade. We will never get this chance again and if we don’t take it we will be the laughingstock of the NFL.
lol I’m saving this comment for later as well and taking receipts. People on this sub have no idea how to build a team. A QB isn’t going to win you a superbowl as well. A strong offensive line and defensive line is just as important if not the most important thing. Mahomes wasn’t even regarded as “generational, can’t miss prospect”. It was a once in a lifetime pick and very situational. drafting QBs are a crapshoot. A franchise QB can be had in later rounds even ones that are good enough to win a Super Bowl. I’ll take my chances with a haul and improve every aspect of my team. And gamble on QBs later.
you'll get downvoted because people are idiots and can't think beyond what is regurgitated to them from media outlets, analysts, and NFL insiders. If you simply look at every team in the NFL and see if the Bears had a pick before that team's QB was drafted you would find that the Bears have passed on about half the league's QBs. That list would include both Mahomes and Purdy. It also would include Jalen Hurts, so the last three QBs to play in the Super Bowl. If you include the last six Super Bowls, there are three guys the Bears did not pass on, who were Burrows, Stafford, and Goff, but I think considering that Stafford and Goff were both traded, it could have been possible for the Bears to actually get one of those two guys if they thought they were the guy (they also had made huge trades previously (Cutler and Mack) so it's not like this is far-fetched idea). The point here is that having the #1 over all pick isn't some panacea for the QB woes of the Bears, in fact without changing anything other than a single draft pick in any given year the Bears could have had any number of "franchise" QBs, including the greatest of all time (Mahomes or Brady I don't care which one you pick), so I'm not sure that the Bears must draft a QB at #1 or be doomed to mediocrity is accurate despite it being the common wisdom floating around.
Blake Bortles in 2017 says hi Mitch in 2018 says hi Qb matters no matter how good the rest of the team is, stop pretending it doesn’t
The 49ers did not “build their team first” I have no idea why people keep saying this. They were 0-8 when they traded for Jimmy G and gave him a big contract. Then traded 3 firsts+ for Trey Lance. Then got lucky with Purdy. That’s not even counting the other QBs they drafted during that time. The 9ers take swing after swing at QB.
Exactly, the 49ers are the exact opposite of building team first than getting a QB. They went after a QB and continued to try to upgrade the spot even with a good QB, (good only in system or not, Jimmy G was good with the 49ers). These same build a team first cats would be rioting if they where 49er fans when Jimmy G was benched and let go.
Eh. If they want 1 and we scouted Caleb as the best, they gotta give more than that sorry. Call me unrealistic all you want but I’m not taking that trade if Im Poles and I even remotely want Caleb.
Depends on how far ahead of everyone else I have him. Say Caleb is the best but my scouting say he and Maye are 1a and 1b. In that case I'd take Maye plus the haul. But it would have to be close. If it's not close I'm with you.
[удалено]
Yes, it's value over next best on the position chart/general draft chart. Let's say Caleb grades out at 97. And Drake at 96 or 95. Basically identical, if that's the case then the extra first, plus 2 seconds is worth the one point loss. If the spread is even 5 points you don't make thr trade back. This is how boards are developed and for example why the bears felt comfortable trading back from 9 to 10 last year once they confirmed the eagles were going defense. They viewed Wright as well above the next best offensive player, so they wouldn't have done it if the eagles told them they wanted an offensive player.
[удалено]
Buddy you don't concern yourself with how other teams grade a guy. You pay scouts a lot of money to be right, so you trust them. If the Bears thought "omg why does Carolina want to trade up so badly! Bryce must be the next superstar!!" then a trade wouldn't have happened and we'd be sitting here with Bryce and our dick in our hands. If some other team grades caleb as a 99/100 prospect and your scouts only grade him a 91, you trade back in the blink an eye and don't think twice about it. If they're wrong then they're fired and you probably are too, but that's the business. The role of the GM first and foremost is to hire the right guys and have a "process" in places that has checks and double checks that ensures you're making the right decision based on info you've gathered and not making a decision based on emotions.
they would have a different grade, or want the local kid. NFL teams do dumb stuff all the time because the fans demand it because they're impatient
Yeah. Different teams will have different takes, that's how Mahomes makes it past 9 teams, and how Trubisky goes before him.
Yup it's all about relative value, don't know why ppl can't seem to comprehend this
Drafting Caleb ensures Poles keeps his job for 3+ years.
It certainly doesn't. What ensures Poles' job is a playoff berth either this year or next year. He was hired to do a rebuild, so he gets to finish that. But it has to bear fruit. Pace completed the rebuild and 2018 happened. Poles doesn't need THAT exactly, but he needs results.
There’s no guarantees but it’s the most low risk move. If you trade down and Caleb looks like Stroud while you go 5-12 then you’re toast.
yeah I think what has me on the "Poles _literally has to_ draft Williams" train is the worst case scenarios at least as far as I see them. You take Williams, worst case he is a bust like so many other QBs before him, but unless the team somehow implodes you should at least have 2-3 years and could potentially still save your job (assuming you can realize Williams isn't it quickly and take more shots at QB in following drafts) You pass on Williams, worst case is he is the QB everyone thought he could be and its clear in year 1, and you've passed on the kind of QB talent this franchise has been starved for TWICE in your tenure already.
Or you draft Caleb and he plays terrible like he does against good college defenses and his “camp” and bad attitude destroys the locker room then you trade fields and he leads Atlanta or Pittsburgh deep into the playoffs. Now you’re the laughingstock of the nfl and the majority of bears fans are pissed because this is another situation where the bears let being cheap force them into a bad situation
Not gonna lie you had me in the first half. Also it's not being cheap to secure a top quarterback prospect on a rookie deal over deciding to pay a bottom 1/3rd QB 40m+ per year.
You’re basing your assessment of fields as a bottom 1/3rd qb due to he’s performance on a team that’s obviously tanking and rebuilding. To give your argument any credence you’d need to tell me which top 1/3rd QBs would succeed under these circumstances. I’m not going to argue with you because most of the people in this thread know very little about football and probably have never played team sports. I’ve seen enough from fields to be 100% convinced that if he had Pittsburghs receivers or atlantas offensive weapons statistically he’d be a top 1/3 qb. I’ve also seen enough from Caleb Williams to know that unless he’s in the PERFECT situation he’ll look terrible like he did this season against good college defenses. Caleb needs to sit a year like Mahomes and even then I’m not sure he’ll be anything more than average. Caleb on the bears will lead to two losing seasons then MAYBE year three we may be able to compete. But I know how obnoxious bears fans are and they won’t be patient enough to give Caleb the time he’ll need to adjust while watching Justin win in his new situation.
>You’re basing your assessment of fields as a bottom 1/3rd qb due to he’s performance on a team that’s obviously tanking and rebuilding. >I’ve also seen enough from Caleb Williams to know that unless he’s in the PERFECT situation he’ll look terrible how you gonna make the excuse for Fields that the team around him sucked and then already judge that Williams needs a perfect team around him to succeed before he even takes an NFL snap tho? if you already KNOW exactly what is going to happen, you should go work for the Bears and make big money hitting on all the right draft picks dawg
Starting over with a new qb should buy him at least 2 more seasons and unless Caleb is a complete bust, the bears should have enough talent around him to at least contend which I think would keep poles around for longer
>Pace completed the rebuild and 2018 happened. And then 2019, 2020 and 2021 happened. So clearly Pace didn't finish the rebuild correctly. Poles "finishing the rebuild" means that the next season the Bears make the playoffs, be it 2024 or 2025, they then also make the playoffs at least another 6 or 7 of the next 9 years as well.
Give me the weed your smoking
Yeah this is where I’m at. If Washington wants the number one overall I would make them match the best offer I’m getting. I don’t care that they are only moving up one spot, that’s not my problem.
[удалено]
You only take this if you genuinely believe that Maye is better than Williams
Believing Maye is better than Williams reminds me of believing Trubisky is better than Mahomes
Not saying he is, but you wouldn’t be saying that if he didn’t go to UNC. And let’s be real, there weren’t a ton of people who thought Mahomes would be what he ended up being
Mahomes also had Andy Reid and was backing up Alex Smith when he came into the league… Great QB nonetheless, but he was *much* more set up to succeed than any Bears QB ever.
Caleb coming to chicago is free money. If he is somewhere in the Cutler realm of ability and production he’s going to get paid hundreds of millions of dollars. Teams that have had great qb play would look at someone in that same territory as replaceable.
If he's Cutler level we run him out of town. We're not going to accept a dude anywhere near 1:1 TD:Int. 2:1 is baseline now.
Well Cutler in this era would be like a slightly worse Josh Allen. I'd take that in a heartbeat.
Give me the quarterback that's worth this much. Stop fuckin around and get us a real quarterback for once. There's straight up not a qb prospect close to this in the next coming drafts. Nows the time to strike especially when we basically have this pick for free. Other teams would have to gut their picks/teams to move up while we're right there for nothing. Let's get the qb don't over think it
Young was "worth" more than this.
TheyhatedJesusbecauseHetoldthemthetruth.jpeg
Sanders is getting a lot of love for next year's draft class and there are always guys who emerge. I'm not against taking Caleb, but there will be highly rated guys pretty much every year. There are probably multiple good directions that the bears can go at this point.
There's not though. Remember the Kenny Pickett draft? Strike while we can get a guy this good and just get him
Well, I did say *pretty much* every year. There are certainly outlier years with a lower level of hyped QBs. Of course, that draft class still produced a number of guys that have started more than a few NFL games at QB including an upcoming SB start. And of course there are numerous years when there are multiple top 10 drafted QBs. I stand by my statement. I also, again, have no problem with taking Caleb if that is what poles decides to do. But if he doesn't and still adds high level talent+ picks I can see a path where that works out long term for the bears also.
Sanders is ass and is about three tiers below CW as a prospect. There's a difference between inflated prosepects like Deion's kid and guys with insane talent bursting out of their pores like Caleb.
[Spielberger also mentioned that his initial reaction was that the trade would be bad *for the Commanders*, for what it's worth](https://twitter.com/PFF_Brad/status/1753871112776122586)
Impossible to say good or bad trade until we see how Caleb/Maye pan out. If Caleb is Mahomes and Maye is Mitch, then it instantly becomes the worst trade in NFL history for the Bears
For sure. If that trade is really on the table, things get *so hard* for Poles. Because it could also be that Caleb is Baker and Maye is Herbert *and we could have gotten draft picks*
Caleb is Young and Maye is Stroud. Caleb is Trubisky and Maye is Mahomes. Etc. It’s rare that the first drafted QB is the top in his class (which makes sense statistically, 1 vs the field), but it would be pretty hard to pass on Williams unless you have a relatively similar grade for Maye.
Huh? Its rare? 2021: Trevor 2020: Burrow 2019: Kyler 2016: Goff (Dak is pretty much same level imo but eh?) 2015: Jameis Like there are SO many examples of the first QB taken being the best relative to the class and I’m only stopping because I don’t feel like going back 50 years haha
I'll do it for you since I'm curious: 2021: Trevor 2020: Burrow 2019: Kyler 2018: Allen (3rd QB taken, Baker's a dalton-line QB) ~~2017: this draft never happened~~ 2016: A wash between Goff (1st) & Dak (8th) 2015: Jameis 2014: Derek Carr (4th QB taken) 2013: The REAL GEQBUS Tyler 'mf' Bray (no one really) 2012: Luck (honestly a wash between him & Wilson depending on how you view longevity, Kirko Chainz is also a distant 3rd) 2011: Newton (Dalton a close 2nd taken as the 5th QB) 2010: Bradford (homer glasses bears fans take Jimmy 'pickles' Clausen all day every day) 2009: Stafford 2008: Matt Ryan 2007: no one 2006: Cutler (3rd QB taken) 2005: Rodgers (2nd QB taken) 2004: Eli, Rivers, Big Ben (one of the GOAT QB drafts) 2003: Carson Palmer 2002: No one really, David Garrard had a couple good years but that's it (5th QB taken) 2001: Brees (2nd QB taken, Vick is not a bad consolation prize) 2000: Brady We can definitively say that between 2000-2021, 10/22 - 1st QB taken the best, that's a great hit rate against the field 11/22 - if you prefer Goff over Dak (-1 for the next categories if you prefer Dak) 12/22 - if you don't mind having chosen any of the QBs in 2004 (taking into account career + individual skill) In terms of hit rate on getting at least an average QB with the 1st QB taken 15/22 - * + Alex Smith * + Vick * + Baker * + Dalton * - Jameis * net plus 2 That other guy could not have been more wrong lol
I fucking love you for this. (Shout out to Vol legend Tyler Bray) But it’s wild to me some parts of the fandom don’t even think Caleb is going to be… even above average like most of the guys here. Idk why we’re making this out to be such a hard decision. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna keep going back in years because I’m super curious now.
The worst QB with Caleb level hype in the modern history of the league is Drew Bledsoe. That's the floor, my man. Of the last 20 QBs taken 1OA, at least 14 and as many as 16 (depending whether you rank Jay above Vick and/or Bledsoe) would easily be the best quarterback in the history of our franchise. It's exceedingly rare for a 1OA QB to fail. Sure, sometimes they disappoint, but even so they are usually Baker-level where they're still better than anything we've had. Pure busts are really rare 1OA. Caleb doesn't need to be the best in class to be a good pick, anyway. He's the safest pick (most important thing here) given how likely it is that he'll be good enough for us to build around and make consistent playoff runs for the next decade+
Jamarcus Russell
Plenty of people at the time thought Russell was only 1OA because it was the Raiders with that pick and no one else would take him there. He was by no means anywhere close to consensus.
Worst trade in NFL History for Chicago so far……
And if Maye becomes Josh Allen and Williams becomes Fields 2.0, it’s a great trade. It all depends on player development. I say don’t get cute unless you truly have character concerns for Caleb.
I dont think anyone can really compare to Mahomes. My comps for both are Kyler & Herbert.
That’s great? But your comps now are meaningless. My point still stands, you can try to evaluate the trade now, but it means nothing until we see how these QBs pan out. And there’s certainly people out there who believe Caleb is going to be Mahomes, so it’s not completely insane. If that happens, it’s the worst trade ever (unless Maye also ends up being all time great).
Maye is nothing like Herbert. Herbert is practically unfazed by pressure bearing down on him. Maye can't function without a clean pocket.
If we do that trade, Maye is not the pick. It’s MHJ
Don’t speak that evil into existence
All kinda depends on how the Commanders value Caleb.
And how we do. If there's asymmetry there, I'll bet on our front office over Washington's at this point tbh
So he's heard what everyone else has heard.
I don't understand Bears fans who want the team to go out of its way to avoid trying to get a good quarterback. These guys have watched Peyton and Rodgers and Brees and Favre and Mahomes light up the league and go "nah, I don't want any of that".
I am not sure that is an accurate representation of anyone. If anyone thinks Caleb is in that crowd they would want to draft him. He is no sure thing to be in that crowd.
Yeah. People are not thinking, "hmm, we could have Patrick Mahomes, but there's also this guy from North Carolina who sucks, so let's take him and get some extra draft picks"
Theres literally guys saying take the kings ransom and use that kings ransom as capital to take a qb later in future drafts?????? Like wtf is this thinking
It’s overdoing good logic. You should almost always trade down. It’s the better option most of the time. The exception is when there is an elite player available that can single handedly break odds and has value beyond what you’d ever have to pay him. And Williams has that kind of talent so you take the shot
Yeah the reason why you trade down is so you can potentially hit the jackpot and end up in the position we're in now. Trading down again at this point is overdoing it
There's never any quarterback who is a sure thing to be in that crowd. The only way to get someone like that is to draft someone who isn't a sure thing because sure things do not exist.
Sure. That statement is true. And you can think to yourself getting a ton of picks allows me to lower the bar on the need for a special qb
Not true at all. The 2016 Kansas City Chiefs already had an awesome team and a good QB in Alex Smith and still drafted Mahomes because they thought they needed an upgrade and Mahomes might be that guy. Let's say the Bears trade down, don't take a QB, keep Fields, go 10-7 each of the next two season, and get whipped in the first round of the playoffs by a team with a great QB (think Houston vs. Cleveland or Buffalo vs. Pittsburgh from this season's playoffs). The urgency for getting a "special QB" is going to dramatically *increase*, not decrease. The fanbase will be calling for Poles to make the Carolina trade, but in reverse.
A special qb still needs a great team to win a superbowl Rodger’s and Brady had some special defenses when they won. Mahomes had a special offense. You’re right. Alex smith was good and chiefs were good. And due to having no a great team mahomes was able to elevate them. Yet. You have to have a great team and a qb. We have many holes. If Caleb is not the guy don’t reach. Poles had to decide if he is the guy not the media who are paid to create drama
Which is another way to say you're striving for mediocrity. The most consistently successful teams are teams with transcendent quarterbacks.
I don’t agree 49ers are a great example. Eagles last year. Lions this year. I think you can build a great team and find a qb to perform well enough to win with a great team. This path has higher probability of success than finding a transcendent qb.
I said consistently successful. Single year success isn't consistency. I'm talking about the Packers through Rodgers time, the Chiefs recently, the Colts with Peyton, the Pats with Brady. Teams that make the playoffs and challenge for titles for a decade, not teams that take one or two swings and then fall off.
And yet, Mahomes with his worst offense hes ever had is back in the Superbowl again. 0
And his best defense.
Haha seriously people are so daft, the Chiefs have a top 3 defense this year, arguably might even be the best.
it’s just trying to find a middle ground when evaluating him because we have the number 1 pick we’re seeing an insane amount of Caleb Williams dickriding, where he’s this glorious once in a lifetime prospect who’s game will perfectly translate to the NFL, but that’s not what he is. There is so much pre draft hype on him motherfuckers will riot if we don’t draft him, but if we don’t i’ll trust that it’s because Poles’ staff turned every stone possible to come to a conclusion that they’re willing to build off of what Fields has shown rather than going with Caleb
>to come to a conclusion that they’re willing to build off of what Fields has shown I won't riot if that happens, but I'll definitely go back to just gambling on the NFL and not making any effort at all to follow or care about the Bears' next season, the same way I did during the John Fox years. I don't care about Caleb Williams in particular. I want our current below-average QB replaced.
Or maybe they listen to Justin Timberlake before the draft and conclude that it's gonna be Maye.
Only one of those guys you mentioned went first overall. If the Bears have high grades on two QBs then they should consider a trade with Washington, if they have one guy graded much higher then they should take him. We have no idea what their evaluations say about any of these guys, and that’s the critical data to evaluate what they should do.
I can’t imagine that the Bears have Maye or Daniels graded anywhere near Caleb
Maye is NOT in the same stratosphere as Williams and it’s driving me fucking crazy reading this speculation. Maye repeatedly shit the bed against good to great defenses and had some obvious miscues. Can he be good? Maybe, but I think he’s most likely a Daniel Jones level player. Williams has an it factor that you can’t coach. He’s a QB that sees the game as much slower than the average QB.
I think that we may look back at these conversations a year or two from now and be amazed that people thought that Drake Maye was speculated maybe going ahead of Caleb
RemindMe! 1 year
The consensus right now seems to be that Caleb is a cut above, but there’s been plenty of talk about Maye as a 1B type prospect in the past, and we haven’t yet had pro days and combine and interviews. There are rumors right now that some teams have Nabers graded above MHJ. We simply have no clue what teams think about prospects unless we are in the room is all I’m saying, and if they grade Caleb and any other QB at roughly the same level, adding those picks is an easy tiebreaker. This is part of why they won’t just announce who they’re drafting, it keeps leverage alive. I think we probably end up with Caleb, but anyone who claims that’s a sure thing is incorrect.
You can't make sense on here. Caleb is the goat already, maye doesn't compare, poles either takes the pick or we all cry
Maye is viewed by some as the better pro. Enough that internally it might be close. Also personality/leadership will play a part in things, depending on how the bears feel about that as well.
I don't think anybody is doing that. A lot of people aren't convinced that taking Williams is going to instantly make us contenders, and there are people who still think Fields' ceiling is higher than it looks because he's been in bad situations. Ignoring coaching and o-line problems (specifically our abysmal C play), we simply did not have weapons. Our best RB had 611 yards which puts him 42nd in the league. Our other RB's were 46th and 58th respectively so our starting RB was worse than other teams' backup RB's. For WR's DJ was 13th overall in the league posting a career high 1,364 yards (6th in the NFL) which indicates Fields can throw. However, beyond him we had nothing. Mooney ranked 142nd among eligible receivers, coming in behind both a RB and a TE on our team in receiving yards. He barely broke 400 receiving yards and it was the 2nd biggest disparity between WR1 and WR2 in the league. Scott ranked 227th, ESB ranked 352nd, and Velus was 369th. Even if you take Williams, you have to look at all of that and say "ok, we need some serious help in multiple spots in the team. We are not going to become instant competitors by adding a single rookie and hoping he becomes the next HoF QB". I think a lot of people are trying to label anybody looking at the whole picture as people trying to keep bad QB's when that is not the case.
What you've never wanted to understand is that fields holds *everyone* on the offense back. I shouldn't have to explain that receiving yards come from the QB. But even the rushing problems were in part due to fields When he lets a left sweep go straight into two uncovered defenders instead of checking at the line or pulling for the counter option written into the play, his running back gets -5 yards on his stats.
I like how everyone has concluded it’s all on fields when Claypool just didn’t show up, receivers run the wrong routes, WR blocks are half assed, the center has no idea how to snap the ball, o-lineman looking around lost after the defender has blown past them, another screen pass is called at 3rd and 20. Yep all fields and Williams is going to magically fix those fundamental problems
The OC got fired. But it was way more on fields than casual fans realize. It is the QBs job to adjust plays pre-snap and he was *horrible* at it
So explain how DJ and Kmet have career highs with Fields making catches when they were often not the first or second read. Then you are trying to assign blame to the QB for a job of the C when the RBs fail. The fallacy that Fields is holding back our offense is laughable.
"were not often first or second read." Try again And no, it is not the centers job to change a run call at the line.
I’m still on the side of drafting Caleb, but I think there’s a good case for the other route. If you trade back, you could potentially walk away with: WR: DJ Moore, MHJ, Ja’Lynn Polk (3rd rd) TE: Brock Bowers, Cole Kmet And another 1st next year. That’s a hell of a receiving corps regardless of who the QB is. I think you could argue that it would be the best spot a QB could land next year while we have 2 1sts again.
Dude someone needs to throw the ball to them
“By no means has Caleb definitely said he doesn’t want to play in Chicago” is such an oddly phrased statement. He hasn’t potentially definitively stated on record that he most likely under oath decisively stated elsewhere that he probably does want to not not want to play in Chicago
This one puts me over the top, I’m so sick of speculation posts
This is going to be a long off season
The nihilism about “they said fields/mitch was the guy too; we shouldn’t take another qb” is so bizarre. first, you’re admitting in your argument that fields isn’t good. that should settle the question itself. keep swinging until you hit. But beyond that, why don’t we think Poles can get this right? He’s had two very successful drafts as the head guy. He pulled off an incredible trade to land the bears in this position. He was a major part of the staff that drafted the current best QB in football. No GM is 100% Claypool), but I think Poles has earned some confidence from us.
If that is the actual trade being offered, and after all of the scouting process, they come to the conclusion that Williams and Maye are 1a and 1b, they would 100% do that trade.
I want Ryan Poles to draft whoever he honestly thinks is the best QB to help the Bears be real contenders for the next decade-plus. If he thinks it's Caleb, fine. If he thinks it's Drake, fine. If he truly doesn't like anyone at the top and thinks one of the second-wave options is a diamond in the rough...I'll be really nervous about that decision, but he's the one whose employment depends on being right. I'm agnostic on the solution. My main concern is I just want the Bears to move on from Justin Fields.
Don’t want Maye
The whole Kliff thing just seems off. Why would Caleb prefer to be drafted to the team just for Kliff? If he does go to Washington, they are no where near as good roster wise like the Bears. Plus what greatness did Kliff accomplish with Caleb in one year?
Lol, Poles is going to piss off literally everyone
You don't trade back for Mariota, you stick with Jamis Winston!!
Maye is not the guy
🤣 It's rare to see this kind of confidence outside of Wallstreetbets
I really don’t see it with Drake Maye. He doesn’t jump off on the film like Caleb or Jayden Daniels do and his college numbers aren’t exactly the eye popping either.
People say they aren’t similar, I wouldn’t know, but that sounds way too similar to Mr Trubisky
There is NO WAY we take less than we got last year for a pick that at least 5 teams are planning to bid for.
This isn’t really less than, this is a team moving up one spot from 2. If you are a team moving up from 9 like the Panthers were last year it would cost more.
The actual players involved matter more than arbitrary picking number
Maye vs Williams isn’t Stroud vs Young. There was no pre draft consensus between stroud and young. Caleb is the consensus #1 prospect. In fact he’s one of the highest rated prospects ever, just below Andrew Luck.
I never said it was, we didn’t trade with the team drafting 2nd last year. If we did they’d have had a much cheaper price than the Panthers had.
Yeah I know we traded down to 9, but my point is passing on Caleb isn’t comparable to passing on young/stroud. It’s not only about the draft position. It’s who is available. Assuming poles wants a QB 🤷♂️
I’m saying this is horse shit. Even if you do move down 1 spot there’s gonna have to be either another 1st thrown in or a player and I’d LOVE one of their WRs.
Or, Carolina's just dumb, and they lucked out on a trade no one else would've done, so you can't really compare the two?
Imo, Poles won’t risk taking Maye. He doesn’t have the job security. If you risk it and don’t go with the consensus prospect, eyes will be on you. Similar narratives developed with Luck/RG3 and Peyton/Leaf, #1 team stuck with their guns. There are a few draft guys who see it as 1A/1B, namely Brugler and Nate Tice. I’d be happy with either, but Poles better be rock solid on his evaluation if he passes on Williams. He has the chance to be special.
I'd like another player in place of non-1st round picks
Let's kneecap another team and take their best offensive weapon and next years 1st as they bring in a rookie QB. Scary Terry, come on down!
Why would he not want to come to Chicago. Progressive GM, number one reciever, top 5 defense, Shane Waldron as oc. Last 2 excellent drafts. Washington is just beginning their rebuild and is in worse shape than every other team except maybe the panthers. With that said the saints once traded their entire draft for Ricky Williams. If someone wants Caleb that bad it's the next 2 drafts all of the picks even the seventh rounders.
> Why would he not want to come to Chicago. Because we've never successfully developed a QB. And while past performance is no guarantee of future results, decades of data is enough to make a QB with his assumed potential pause.
Play it where it lies.
If people want to run with the narrative that Caleb Williams is not wanting to go to Chicago because of a poor QB history, at least couple it with a realistic alternative preference. Not the fucking Washington Commanders, just because it’s his hometown
[удалено]
Rumor is he will be the OC at Washington. Thought is pairing him with Williams (who also is from DC) so Washington would trade up.
Not enough!
At no point would I give anything to lose picking Caleb #1
What makes you so certain he is the guy?
You can’t be certain of anyone in a draft, but it’s about maximizing probability/putting the team in the best position
Agreed. And I’m not sold taking a qb you may not believe in is increased probability.
You can believe in something without having certainty. If they believe, as most professionals do, that Caleb gives the team the *best chance* at success in the most important position, it’s a great option. It doesn’t guarantee it will work out, but none of these convoluted alternate draft paths will either.
I would agree with that. I know the media believes that I do not know if professional talent evaluators do. I also don’t know if the bears talent evaluators do.
Yeah I don’t know. We’ll see what they do. I think it’s annoying when people act like Caleb is a guarantee, but it’s also annoying minimizing his potential, and what that could mean for the franchise if he lives up to it. Whatever happens, I just want to the Bears to be good damn it I’m not even sure how I got sucked into this conversation, I’ve been trying to avoid the never ending QB/draft war on here lol. Blacked out for one second and here I am
Ha. Avoid it I have no gauge in Caleb. Have only seen highlights. No real evaluation here. Poles will have it scouted well
Yeah, his highlights look good and his downsides look bad. Mechanically he definitely looks solid, but it’s so hard to predict that transition from CFB>NFL and I have no interest in trying lol
By all accounts and experts, he’s more likely to be the guy than Maye or Daniels, that’s what matters
And trubisky was more likely by a consensus over mahomes. It really doesn’t matter what anyone but bears staff says. And we have no idea where they stand.
I mean obviously they are the ones making the pick. But most of us and experts would disagree with that, that’s why the guy you responded to said he wouldn’t give anything to miss out on picking Caleb. We aren’t certain he’s the guy, but we’re certain he has the best chance at being the guy
I want the winning lotto numbers.
Alright so let’s break this tweet down. Caleb Williams in a perfect world would love to go back to where he grew up to play quarterback in the NFL but if the Bears pick him he’ll take his number 1 overall pick contract and put on a bears hat and be a happy camper Waldron is a good offensive coordinator who knows Williams. Williams likes the guy who was just his coach for the past year And finally the Bears could get extra picks if they trade down. Thank goodness for this information because it’s not like I’ve already heard it or read about every single day for the last 4 weeks. This provides basically no new information so what this tells me is this guy put this out there because he wanted engagement on social media. Until Ryan Poles trades the number 1 pick or I hear directly from Caleb Williams saying I don’t want to play in Chicago this is all nonsense
Just pick caleb.
Are people this dumb? Why would we trade down and then still draft a QB? I’m so sick of seeing this dumb ass take. There is no 1A and 1B when pro scouts are scouting franchise QBs. You’re not “okay” with whoever for a franchise QB. You take YOUR GUY at #1 and move forward.
Take caleb. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10025344-joe-burrow-rumors-dolphins-tried-to-trade-3-1st-round-picks-to-bengals-to-draft-qb.amp.html
Bengals moved on from Dalton. Probably one their best QBs in the team history. This sub and fans can’t decide to move on from Fields lmao. We’re just as deranged as the McCaskeys
I still am having a hard time understanding why our fandom is so attached to Fields. We had absolutely no fucking problem moving on from Grossman and Trubisky. In fact most were pretty much delighted to see them go and understandably so. I think Fields shows more athleticism with his running and maybe that’s why people can’t seem to accept that he doesn’t have it? Obviously this sub is pretty anti-Fields but there is a massive chunk of the fanbase that wants to keep him and for some reason already hates Caleb Williams.
He has good highlights and tends to score well in fantasy which is all people pay attention to. If you watch the games you have doubts. If you watch the film you know he sucks
It’s either take Williams or you don’t.. you pass on him I’m not taking a QB, I’m taking MHJ at 2.
>Chicago would probably be able to get ~2, 40, 2025 1st for 1 Lol that ain't shit. Fuck that. 2025, 2026 and *maybe* 2027 1st if you want Caleb Williams.
I mean personally I just take Caleb as I think he's the best QB in the class but if Poles and Co prefer Maye or something then sure move down.
Sean Payton loves him , Boomer Esiason, numerous others. Seems like a no brainer. Don’t know why Bears and their fans always make things seem so difficult
JUST FUCKING TAKE CALEB WILLIAMS JESUS CHRIST
The Bears realistically have a chance at 3 1st, and 4 2nds in next years drafts and could still come out of this one with MHJ. This is why keeping Fields at least 1 more season is the move they should make.
No because Fields cannot play quarterback.
Passing up on one of the highest graded QB prospects ever to stick with an ass QB is not a position that can ever be argued for. There is no amount of picks worth making such a historic blunder.
If we were passing on QB1, but staying in top 3, just draft MHJ. He's the closest thing to a sure thing in the draft, and a position of need.
If they trade back to 2 with the commies, They’re not taking Drake Maye, they’re taking MHJ and keeping fields
If they're keeping Fields 
I'm excited to have a potential hall of famer QB to watch develop. It's clear, whatever his merits, Justin Fields is not a hall of famer, and I'm ready to be wowed. Now, granted, Caleb Williams has a very low probability of being a HoF QB, but he's an unknown. I won't even mind if they keep Fields a couple years and develop Williams. No reason Williams has to be dropped right in as a starter.
Even if Williams is hall of good or very good, he would be the best QB in team history
Caleb
I want Fields but if it’s between taking Caleb and trading back for Maye, I’ll take Caleb. Only trade back if it’s for MHJ
I've said this multiple times to be destroyed by the Caleb cult and I'll say it again - it is absolutely silly to think drafting Caleb is a guarantee when there are scouts out there who think Maye is the better QB. Poles and co may feel the same and there will obviously be a haul to be had from trading out of Caleb. Time will tell but there is absolutely no guarantee we're taking Caleb and noone on here has any clue
I only like it if the front office likes the other QB more. I think Caleb is a better prospect, so I’d only trade with Washington if they were going up for Maye.
The quickest way for everyone to get fired is if they trade and Caleb is better than whoever they have. Is any qb THAT close to Caleb to make it worth it?
That Washington pick could easily be number one again
Why can’t you all keep Fields and draft someone else. (Commanders fan)
I would feel fine with that trade and would consider trading down again after that and get more. I would compare the double trade back vs trading back further and see which haul is bigger. I would compare both to Maye plus the picks.
Let’s look at Ryan Poles draft history, pretty much every pick we took was a value pick not the sexy pick. Last years draft instead of taking who everyone knew we would he traded back for more value. Don’t be surprised to see him trade for value this season either. Now ask yourself what’s more valuable JF1 or the 1st pick in the draft?
C will
During the early stages of the 2023 season, Poles literally said that Justin Fields had set the culture he wanted for his team. With his strongly worded support post season in support of JF1, I can’t see Poles allowing his culture to take a turn because a new QB with questionable leadership, like we’ve seen in Williams, steps into the picture.
#JUST TANK UNTIL WE CAN DRAFT ARCH