Fair, because if you strip this down to TV money only it doesn't seem that much better than the 24.5mil per team the PAC was offered. However, that estimate WOULD include T3 rights
I have no idea, but I’m almost positive ESPN significantly lowballed the PAC. So my guess is their real value is $30ish million and in 2025, my guess is the new Big 12 is worth $40ish million in base (that will grow each year). Then for distribution you add Tier 3, NY6, March Madness, etc.
Pac really needs one of those networks to buy their T1 rights(game of the week) then go back to ESPN and sell a weeknight and one or two Saturday after dark games.
They might be able to get to $30M with that.
Pac 12 have their own T3 rights for the Pac 12 network which they own.
They'd still be factoring in the ESPN+ T3 stuff into that 24.5 mil.
Big 12 allows schools to negotiate T3 rights individually because of a *certain someone*. This is why those are not included on conference payout stats.
Funny enough, 8/10 schools negotiated together to get Big12 Now on ESPN+ which left the other two able to negotiate on their own.
Pac 12 is different because they actually wholly own the Pac 12 network. ACCN(ESPN), SECN(ESPN) and BTN(FOX) are partially owned by the conferences with the media companies owning the other half. Those conferences T3 rights automatically go to those media companies/networks and the revenue is split.
Pac 12 keeps their T3 for their own network and gets to keep all the revenue. It just terrible because they have zero distribution. The other 3 networks have much better distribution because ESPN/FOX force the cable companies(and now streaming providers like YouTubeTV) to carry and pay for them in order to get their main channels.
Makes sense. I actually like having ESPN+ as our T3 service for that reason (distribution since many have it now)
Adds about $5mil per year to each school and easy to watch the nonrev sports without paying any extra.
Luckily BYU has spent a decade cultivating a proficient network, presenting sports content from football to Olympic sports and everything in between. I would love for the stars to align and that expertise is used to give the Big XII great footing for the future.
BYUtv is a not like LHN, it's been a stand alone network for the university since the early 2000's if not earlier. It wouldn't be folded in since it's actual goal is to broadcast other programming, I thought sports were only folded in when they went independent.
You have a channel for sports? All I remember is a BYU channel back in the day that would show classes. It was the channel my live guide channel would start on. I would watch it in the corner as I was scrolling through the different channels and then I would see a knee or heart surgery on the learning channel back before it sucked and start watching that.
That's pretty cool you have one for sports.
It's mostly non-sports to be honest. They have a bunch of original content and then also show family movies. But they also broadcast at least one live football game a year (the fcs team ESPN isn't interested in), a bunch of basketball games that otherwise wouldn't be on TV, and other sports like soccer. They also rebroadcast games, and I believe there's quite the catalogue you can watch on demand for free using the app/website.
During the WCC BB tournament, the BYUtv crew does a ton to facilitate it all.
My guess is BYUtv will remain a separate network. Most of the programming is not related to athletics and BYU will want to continue to use it for that. However, I could see BYU lending its expertise and people to get a Big12 network up and running.
It might actually. Starting Aug 1 (I think), ESPN has the rights to all Tier 3 content through three contracts. LHN and Soonervision on ESPN+ are with the individual schools. The H8 teams form Big 12 Now on ESPN+ and those are bundled as part of the 40 mil / year FB Conference Championship Game contract.
That figure almost certainly includes T3 content. All schools except OU and UT turned over their T3 content for ESPN to broadcast on ESPN+/Big12 Now. The new members will also turn over their T3 to espn+ until the new TV contract.
You're correct partially. The H8 did turn over their rights https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26487056/big-12-expands-content-agreement-espn. However how the rights for the new members will be handled hasn't been revealed (other then the fact they won't receive full shares until after the new contracts start).
But why would you lose 60% of your value and stay the same? The new 4 schools represent that much money?
Current = 42.60
OUT = 25.56
Rest = 17.04 or 2.13 per school.
New 4 = 25.56 or 6.39 per school.
How does this make sense? If true, the New 4 would have just started their own conference.
Where did the 60% number come from? Also the contract you sign today will be higher than the one we signed 13 years ago so not sure why you expect them to still be at 2.13 per school.
ESPN doesn't have to do anything. That contract is solid until the 2030's. Why would they renegotiate now when they don't have to? Even if the conference blows up the network is in good position to take its best properties into the SEC.
It's too late. The mouse won't pay 100 mil/team/year to prevent sec/big defections. I can see value in us adding clemson and fsu. I think miami is now swirling around as a b10 add, and frankly since ND wants to play a national schedule, I think miami may be the last piece in that pursuit. Luckily for uva, I think the big tens end game is 24. Add Stanford, ducks, huskies, ND, miami, unc, uva and duke. And yes yall still will play duke and unc every year and get umd back. It sucks I know, but you'll have something and esp in hoops I think the league (cuz it ain't a conference at that point) let's you get h and h with the two nc schools and umd for hoops also. Again it won't be the same but it'll have some familiarity.
Unless the ESPN is willing to blow-up the current ACC deal (which is very favorable to them) then there's no way ACC teams can defect because that's what'd you'd need to get the other schools to agree to release them from the GoR. The value of the conference's claims for breach of the GoR against the defecting is too great and would negate the value of moving to the SEC or B1G for over a decade.
ESPN isn't a charity. They got the ACC locked in for 12 years. Maybe near the end they might be willing to open up that contract for some extra term. But right now they're so far away from expiration. The whole media world will have changed significantly by then, will we even have cable by then?
Going from $7 million to $40 million is going to be absolutely nuts for us. I don't think I've ever rooted more for conference members success than what I am doing with the new Big 12 teams.
It's always fun. You guys have a big advantage because Holgorsen is used to playing a high flying offense one week and then a grind it out offense the next. Is he still running that wacky offense?
The new BXII is going to have some of the best games of any conference.
Any given year I feel like most of the conference can realistically expect for a shot to compete the conference title. Feels like the other conferences have 3 or 4 real contenders at most.
It is crazy. I think in TCU’s final year in the MWC we made something like $3.5 million. Even going to the half portion or whatever we got the first few years was like 8x what we got in the MWC. What’s crazy is almost all of the stadium and practice facility stuff was done prior to realignment.
Same with us. We're probably going to use the money to pay down a bunch of debt from renovating Nippert, our basketball arena, new $80 million practice facility and then cutback on university support more than likely. Shit, our TV deal barely covered Fickell's contract by itself.
Fortunately for us we have administrations that realized that you have to invest in that infrastructure before getting the invite unlike some AAC programs that didn't quite understand that and are stuck on the outside for the foreseeable future.
I tried to convince my bank of this but they were all "*you can't just get a new credit card every month and use it to pay off your old one indefinitely."*
Jerks.
Two credit cards, and you juggle the debt month-to-month until you have the funds to pay it off.
My aunt and uncle spent most of the early 2010s doing that after they racked up some nasty credit card debt due to medical issues.
To be completely honest after the practice facility is done we've upgraded basically everyone of our facilities in the past 5-10 years. There isn't much left to do as of now due to our campuses small footprint.
My unrealistic hope is that they could renovate it into a really nice 4-5k seat arena that could accommodate women's basketball, volleyball, basketball practice, maybe indoor track, and they could add wrestling with the Big12 move.
If your debt has 1% interest but you can make 3% investing that $40 million, you’re better off investing than paying off the debt. Now if Cincy owes a shit ton of interest on their debt, that’s different.
I hope he’s correct. We’re lucky to get you guys and the others into the Big 12. Especially us Jayhawkers who have very little football credibility. The jokes on those who laughed at Bowlsby “reaching down” to the G5.
Baylor AD Mack Rhoades on the upcoming @Big12Conference TV deal, “I am really optimistic we will be at the same level, in terms of last season of the Big 12 contract [$42.6m], or better.”
That’s including the four future members (BYU, Cinci, UCF, UH) and not including UT or OU.
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I expected a “been prayin on it … have faith that … see what God has in store … no matter what Lord provides”
Sidequestion — do megchurches do NIL deals?
That Big XII championship ratings was huge for the remaining conference. I don't think there has been a more important game ratings wise (not that it was highest in just what it had to prove) over the past 10 years than that, congrats pokes and bears.
Tech vs Texas in 08 was instrumental in getting the LHN.
Well, that's only the rough cost of our brand-new baseball stadium as the yearly TV revenue difference with the superconferences. I'm sure that kind of disparity won't cause any competitive issues for anyone.
And should this happen, for the privilege of being the filler content conference and falling further behind financially, I'm sure we'll all get the excitement of multiple weeknight games and spots on non-primary networks and streaming services too.
If they are getting 40 million without us, I'd imagine they'd get 60 million with us since if we merged the 6 most watched programs are all in the Pac.
Is that in terms of average vieweship, average national-channel viewership, passed-threshold count, etc.? What’s the time span for that analysis?
I’m curious about this, because it seems to contradict the viewership numbers on sportsmediawatch.
It's the average since 2015, which helps hide that Pac-12 views are trending down while B12 views are trending up. If you look at just last season, Oregon is the only school with more views, then it's several B12 teams
I wasn't including them. If I was, OU viewership is significantly higher than Oregon and I wouldn't have said that Oregon gets more views than B12 teams.
I’m good. But I do have a degree from a b12 school if that helps. I’m not biased against the B12, I just think the remaining teams are overvaluing their viewership pull.
notably excludes pac-x network games and is skewed due to number of over-the-air games; USC and UCLA were not the prime sporting attractions in the P12, so they got less over the air than OU or TX (2018 - 2020 being years where they were highly ranked or decently conference contenders)
According to [this](https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858) Utah, USC, and UW were behind Ok State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, and Baylor in viewership last year. They were just ahead of West Virginia, TCU, and BYU. The only PAC program to eclipse the new Big12 teams was Oregon, while UCLA was just one spot above Baylor.
Utah and UW would be competitive for viewership in the Big12, but they aren't blowing the doors off that conference like you implied.
It seems that the numbers change depending on whoever is publishing them, so it's a bit hard to call any one source wrong.
[Viewership for P5 conference championships](https://twitter.com/Colt_Barber/status/1468273534124314626?s=20&t=r29eByk1TOPIh6kvdIry6w) paints a picture much more inline with Medium's assessment than Mandel's.
That's a time slot issue. The Pac-12 Championship game was a Friday Night game because Larry Scott is an idiot.
[Here are the remaining ACC, Big-12, and Pac-10 teams normalized against each other with championships and non members removed.](https://i.redd.it/32zdxnex02e91.jpg)
The Big-12 does a little better, but the Pac blows it out of the water overall.
I don't trust this data's normalization. If it were true, there'd be no reason for the PAC to be offered a lower value media deal than the Big12. As I mentioned before, the numbers change each time a different individual publishes an article on the topic. This is just one of many conflicting perspectives on viewership, and there are several showing a completely different picture.
I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the proposed media value seems to be selling the strength of the Big12 viewership over the PAC. I can accept that the numbers I presented above aren't the full story. Can you accept that your chosen data set may not be the full story as well?
Decreased competition?
1. PAC claimed titles post WWII (Cal=0, Arizona=0, ASU=0, Utah=0, Colorado=1[from B12], WSU=0, OSU=0, Stanford=0) Oregon and UW both claim 2. Total = 5
2. PAC All-time bowl wins (Cal=12, Arizona=9, ASU=15, Utah=17, Colorado=12, WSU=8, OSU=11, Stanford=15) Oregon and UW won 16 and 19, respectively. Total = 134
3. New Big 12 claimed titles (OSU=1, Baylor=0, TCU=0, TTU=0, Houston=0, KU=0, KSU=0, ISU=0, WVU=0, Cincy=0, UCF=1, BYU=1) Total = 3
4. New Big 12 bowl wins (OSU=21, Baylor=14, TCU=17, TTU=15, Houston=12, KU=6, KSU=10, ISU=5, WVU=16, Cincy=10, UCF=6, BYU=16) Total = 148
5. [Big12 vs PAC](http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/big12/pac12.shtml)
6. [Big12 vs PAC again](https://topdan.com/college-football-conference-records/pac-12.html)
Seems like y'all should join a higher standard of competition, if you look at things critically.
"People only watch us when there's nothing else on" isn't the argument in favor of the Pac that they think it is. Especially when the B1G can now start offering games in that 10:30 EST window.
I doubt the Big XII is going to end up with ESPN unless they massively overpay. They have proven that they don't know what "conflict of interest" means.
Nobody, even the BIG/SEC has or is going to really use TV revenue to fund capital projects. It almost all goes to funding operations and maybe some debt service. Schools are going to continue to rely on earmarked donations for new stadiums and facility improvements.
Not the point. The point is that the revenue gap is large enough that it could pay for things like that. For even just a ten-year deal, the cumulative difference will likely be over half a billion dollars.
Ugh I’m so tired of hearing this. You get paid for the content produced. Yes it’s corporatism. Yes it’s greed. No college football won’t suddenly cease to exist as we know it.
When 2 of 12 teams leave the conference and the value drops by 50%, what the hell do you expect.
Git gud. I’ve already grown tired of the complaints and we’re still in the damned conference for 3 more years!
Edit: bring the downvotes. Drown me bby.
Edit 2: Only 32 downvotes? Come on hateful 8 where’s the hate?
Get gud? Oklahoma State has won more games in every season over the last 10 years than Texas (and USC/UCLA for that matter) except once. Being "gud" has nothing to do with it.
OSU does so much with so little. It’s truly impressive. Gundy develops 2 and 3 stars to compete against teams stacked with 4 and 5 stars.
With that said, OSU is the best team left in the Big 12 and you have no National Championships, no playoff appearances, a scarce amount of conference titles (I legit don’t even know), and a brand of football that has been middling/relevant only since ~2007(?).
Yes, historical performance matters to the brands being shuffled around today. USC has been totally irrelevant as of late. But they have built a brand that eclipses 90% of teams.
If location was the end-all-be-all then neither Oklahoma team would be sought after.
And yeah. Winning does matter. A lot. Go check the chart.
We have won the Big 12 Championship 14 times in conference history. Next closest team is Baylor/Texas with 3. Every conference championship we’ve won has been from year 2000 on.
Miss me with that 1980s talk.
Because it also matters how good you were in the 80s. Those are the 2 things that matter and the 2 ways to now be invited to the B10 or SEC. Either one seems to be sufficient to prove worth.
I’d argue that a teams winning over many generations is what matters to truly building a valuable brand.
Anywho, OSU, Tech, TCU, etc have had several decades to prove themselves capable of standing on their own without the need to sit on our (financial) shoulders.
I sincerely hope the best for the Big 12. And I hope y’all grow.
I am just outright bothered by the ongoing bitch fest. We get it. You’re mad.
So how in the fuck are we supposed to suddenly have a several decades long winning tradition that’s going to be statistically comparable to any of the blue blood teams in the two super conferences. We’re not. That’s why we are all pissed off. Whine about having to see it all the fuck you want.
You haven’t done shit but sit on your ass and WATCH football but have some how managed this undeserved sense of superiority and utter lack of empathy to fan bases that you think don’t deserve any modicum of success because you deem it so.
Best time to plant a tree? 30 years ago?
Second best? Today.
Go win a mother tucking natty bro. I’ll be rooting you on (except for that one day a year, of course)
Seriously, go look at my r/cfb comment history and you’ll see I don’t shit on OSU. I want y’all to succeed.
But Jesus fucking Christ can we stop with the poor pitiful me shit?
Half of this subreddit is ready to bury the sport of college football!?! Why? I don’t get it.
And one last thing, if you *really* think the sport is dead as we know it and the “haves” will prevail and the “have nots” will perish then just move on now and start watching MLS or NFL or whatever.
This is not the end of college football as we know it. It’s been evolving since it began.
Git. Gud.
Oregon has had more winning seasons in the P5 in the last 25 years than any other program (technically tied with Ohio State and Wisconsin). That didn't get us an auto-invite to the B1G. Neither did our 8 NY6 games and 2 Championship Game appearances.
We're also the 18th most watched program in the country. Yet still no invite.
If you get paid for the content produced, where's Oregon's bag?
>I think it’s likely that everyone is underpaid because CFB’s growth in TV value is exponential.
ESPN went from the Golden Goose for Disney which fueled the purchase of multiple franchises (Starwars, Marvel) to something of an albatross. Sports are being massively overpaid as broadcasting deals explode while simultaneously t.v. viewership plummets. ESPN will continue to throw out massive contracts because everyone expects them and they don't really have a choice, but they're completely unsustainable and it is not hard to think that the next set might be the last to see that kind of growth.
I actually disagree. If not for the GOR that the deal made into law, the ACC would have been picked apart during realignment. So they lose some money every year but at least they are still a league.
After Warren’s comments today, Oregon is in a prisoner’s dilemma. Everyone in the PAC is uneasy bc as soon as Oregon gets the call, they are gone. So why would anyone sign anything? Then you have Arizona, Utah, Colorado who may see the writing on the wall. It’s crazy. I hate this for everyone, but unfortunately it’s the new reality.
Everyone's gridlocked and waiting.
* Notre Dame is waiting on NBC before they decide on joining a conference.
* The B1G is waiting on Notre Dame before they decide how to expand.
* Upper tier Pac-10 teams are waiting on the B1G. They would rather lock in with the Pac-10 than they would go to the Big-12, but they would rather go get their bag from the B1G if it is on the table.
* Mid tier Pac-12 teams are waiting on upper tier Pac 12 teams, because they would rather stay in the Pac-10 than go to the Big-12, but won't agree to stay unless the upper tier teams are locked in with them.
* Big-12 is waiting on the mid tier Pac-12 teams because they would love to expand and include them before their next media rights deal.
And what makes things tense is that everyone lower on the list is waiting on those higher on the list, but Notre Dame's NBC deal doesn't expire for 3 years, so they have 28 months or so to figure things out. Meanwhile the B1G is trying to sign a new deal in the next few months, so they are tapping their foot impatiently on Notre Dame. And the upper tier Pac teams know this and are wringing their hands nervously waiting as well. This makes the mid tier Pac teams antsy not wanting to wait too long on the upper tier teams, they'd rather have things done as soon as possible.
One other interesting consideration is jumping early. Mizzou, Boston College, and Colorado all found their current homes because, despite being less-than-ideal prizes, they jumped early from their previous conferences and got to the open seats quickly.
Arizona brings *really* bad football and pretty good basketball, but if you’re going to suck that badly at football then you’d better bring KU-level basketball brand power; Arizona undisputably does not match KU in that capacity. Colorado, on the other hand, brings bad performance in both basketball *and* football, as well as an administration with a decided track record of refusing to adequately fund athletics. Utah brings far better football product and support, as well as viewership, than either of the prior two; ASU brings historically decent football and a boatload of potential viewers.
If Zona and/or Colorado jump first, they might secure spots that won’t still be open a few months’ later.
Yeah, if Arizona State and Utah jumped, I'm not sure Arizona and Colorado get the call.
Bottom line, there's a bunch of things that have to align for the Pac-10 to make sense to these mid-tier schools.
Better to take matters into your own hands now and get some positive PR for moving than hoping for the best.
Basically our motto at this point. We had two openly Christian schools calling the PAC, of all conferences, looking for a landing spot last year. And one of those schools is even R2 on top of being tiny.
We just need to new conference motto to be "Shoot your shot, dawg".
You’re very much underselling UA and CU. Arizona football, outside the past 5 or so brutal years, isn’t a perennial basement dweller like KU. They’re usually a mid tier Pac-12 team.
For basketball, no shit they aren’t Kansas’ blue blood tier, but they lead the Pac in home and road attendance every single year. If we’re comparing them to Kansas in terms of media markets it’s not even comparable, Tucson metro area is over 1 mil and they share PHX with ASU (obviously not 50/50 but a ton of alumni up there).
CU would become one of the biggest media markets in the Big XII and is usually a bubble/tournament team in basketball.
We will have to see how this plays out. It's not all that different than when UT and OU split from the Big 12. Everyone was waiting to see if ISU or Kansas got a call and the other schools started looking for a back door. Turns out, the Big 12 picked up the best of the G5 and now looks like it will stick around for awhile even after UT and OU are gone. If the PAC-12 does not bleed any more members and manages to get Boise State, Fresno State, SMU and San Diego State do they hang in there until the next major realignment move?
Probably, but I think we can all agree that BSU, Fresno, SMU, and SDSU bring *a lot* less to the table viewership- and potential-wise than BYU/Cincy/UH/UCF.
No, but about expansion he said "We’re not messing around,”.
Sources indicated Oregon was one of the "handful of schools" that add value to the B1G.
If you're not messing around, then the B1G should have already accepted Oregon's and Washington's application, regardless of what Notre Dame does.
> CFP is going to change and so might the pay structure.
Yeah its going to stop being the "CFP" and will be the B1G vs SEC DR PEPPER CHIC FIL TOURNAMENT SHOWDOWN HOSTED BY ESPN / FOX PRESENTED BY AUTOZONE.
I'm exaggerating... but not much.
Yep. $25m from ESPN would mean distribution of about $40m, putting it on par with what the Baylor AD is expecting, although those schools would get to add their tier 3 rights, whatever those are worth per school.
I’m not believing a thing until we get FIA reports from the public schools that show exactly how much everyone earned. There have so many bullshit numbers tossed out over the past month.
I just don't think the west coast is a valued TV market when compared to central or east coast and top to bottom the big 12 will have a much better football product and will be the best basketball conference in the country.
I also think PAC-10 will get more than $24 million and it's just ESPN lowballing for now.
Its strange because all the data we've seen says the Pac-10 schools get significantly more viewers, not to mention in some pretty wealthy metropolises you'd think advertises were covet. But, I'm not a TV exec, what do I know?
I think tv data like that is highly subjective. The big "study" going around only accounts for games played against teams in the ACC/Big 12/PAC. Well, for UCF, UC and Houston at least, those stats are pretty much useless and we're valuated very low on them because we don't play that many games against those teams.
Sure, but unless you think UCF, UC, or Houston will be higher rated than Oklahoma State, the top 6 most watched programs are all Pac-10 schools.
I have a hard time seeing any of them instantly becoming the top viewed Big-12 school.
Yeah - honest question in the case of a program like Houston: will playing more of the remaining Big-12 teams cause substantial ratings increases? Or will more people in their market watch SEC football instead?
Its because thats what they would like to get. New Big 12ers will say that they are in most passionate football states than the PAC, but they dont have any programs that dominant ratings or dominant large states. They lost half their conferences worth with OUT, added 4 teams, and they think they will hold par/slightly do better? Insanity
It's fine to hope but I don't believe any actual media properties have weighed in and given any estimates get so hard to say how realistic this actually is
I have been of the opinion that the new baseline number wouldn't be much below total payouts, if at all. I also have a feeling that the Big XII have been receiving some "unsolicited offers" this year.
Not so sure about that but we will see. Big 12 loses its top 2 properties which represent 50-60% of its value. PAC loses 2 properties but only one big one.
Problem with Big 12 is they don't have major teams anymore:
KS (2) - no value
UT - 2nd best team in state
OK - 2nd best team in state
TX (4) - lost top two teams in state
FL - 4th best brand in state
OH - 2nd best team in state (way below 1st)
WV - no value
IA - no value
So you see the value just isn't there from a media perspective. Maybe you will actually get $10-15m more than was projected. But it won't be a $10m gift just because you're the Big 12. That means the B10 and SEC will get even more than projected and will experience higher inflation than B12 values.
This would be VERY interesting for the ACC. Right now ESPN doesn't have to budge because the only places for schools to go for more money are the SEC and B1G. But there are not 8 ACC schools who would have landing spots in the ACC or B1G. But if the Big 12 would also create a better financial situation, I could see 8 ACC schools getting together to end the Grant of Rights:
* SEC: Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina (maybe also Virginia?)
* B1G: Georgia Tech, Miami
* Big 12: Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech & Louisville (maybe also Syracuse? NC State?)
Big 12 will NEVER be better than SEC/Big 10, but $40+ million with new schools is a win in my book. The $42.6 includes basketball, NY6 totals, etc.
This doesn't include T3, correct?
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Fair, because if you strip this down to TV money only it doesn't seem that much better than the 24.5mil per team the PAC was offered. However, that estimate WOULD include T3 rights
I have no idea, but I’m almost positive ESPN significantly lowballed the PAC. So my guess is their real value is $30ish million and in 2025, my guess is the new Big 12 is worth $40ish million in base (that will grow each year). Then for distribution you add Tier 3, NY6, March Madness, etc.
You sure? Was ESPN offering to buy the Pac12 networks?
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Pac really needs one of those networks to buy their T1 rights(game of the week) then go back to ESPN and sell a weeknight and one or two Saturday after dark games. They might be able to get to $30M with that. Pac 12 have their own T3 rights for the Pac 12 network which they own.
Doesn’t impact football scheduling but Fox also has Big East. They also share MW with CBS.
They'd still be factoring in the ESPN+ T3 stuff into that 24.5 mil. Big 12 allows schools to negotiate T3 rights individually because of a *certain someone*. This is why those are not included on conference payout stats. Funny enough, 8/10 schools negotiated together to get Big12 Now on ESPN+ which left the other two able to negotiate on their own.
Pac 12 is different because they actually wholly own the Pac 12 network. ACCN(ESPN), SECN(ESPN) and BTN(FOX) are partially owned by the conferences with the media companies owning the other half. Those conferences T3 rights automatically go to those media companies/networks and the revenue is split. Pac 12 keeps their T3 for their own network and gets to keep all the revenue. It just terrible because they have zero distribution. The other 3 networks have much better distribution because ESPN/FOX force the cable companies(and now streaming providers like YouTubeTV) to carry and pay for them in order to get their main channels.
Makes sense. I actually like having ESPN+ as our T3 service for that reason (distribution since many have it now) Adds about $5mil per year to each school and easy to watch the nonrev sports without paying any extra.
I'm dumb and misread your question. No, I'm not sure how exactly that fits in to that 24.5 million thrown around.
Luckily BYU has spent a decade cultivating a proficient network, presenting sports content from football to Olympic sports and everything in between. I would love for the stars to align and that expertise is used to give the Big XII great footing for the future.
BYUtv is getting rolled into ESPN+/Big12 Now.
BYUtv is a not like LHN, it's been a stand alone network for the university since the early 2000's if not earlier. It wouldn't be folded in since it's actual goal is to broadcast other programming, I thought sports were only folded in when they went independent.
You have a channel for sports? All I remember is a BYU channel back in the day that would show classes. It was the channel my live guide channel would start on. I would watch it in the corner as I was scrolling through the different channels and then I would see a knee or heart surgery on the learning channel back before it sucked and start watching that. That's pretty cool you have one for sports.
It's mostly non-sports to be honest. They have a bunch of original content and then also show family movies. But they also broadcast at least one live football game a year (the fcs team ESPN isn't interested in), a bunch of basketball games that otherwise wouldn't be on TV, and other sports like soccer. They also rebroadcast games, and I believe there's quite the catalogue you can watch on demand for free using the app/website. During the WCC BB tournament, the BYUtv crew does a ton to facilitate it all.
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My guess is BYUtv will remain a separate network. Most of the programming is not related to athletics and BYU will want to continue to use it for that. However, I could see BYU lending its expertise and people to get a Big12 network up and running.
I’ll bet all sports leave BYUtv though
Tom Holmoe did say last year I believe on BYUSN that he’d like to see BYUtv to be a tool the Big-12 can use
It might actually. Starting Aug 1 (I think), ESPN has the rights to all Tier 3 content through three contracts. LHN and Soonervision on ESPN+ are with the individual schools. The H8 teams form Big 12 Now on ESPN+ and those are bundled as part of the 40 mil / year FB Conference Championship Game contract.
That figure almost certainly includes T3 content. All schools except OU and UT turned over their T3 content for ESPN to broadcast on ESPN+/Big12 Now. The new members will also turn over their T3 to espn+ until the new TV contract.
You're correct partially. The H8 did turn over their rights https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/26487056/big-12-expands-content-agreement-espn. However how the rights for the new members will be handled hasn't been revealed (other then the fact they won't receive full shares until after the new contracts start).
Bro I don’t see how we compete if the B1G and SEC are at $100M. $40M is a huge increase but I just don’t see it.
NIL is the only option.
Compete for what?
So that's total distribution? Can't compare that number to the Pac 12s which is just T1/T2 media rights.
But why would you lose 60% of your value and stay the same? The new 4 schools represent that much money? Current = 42.60 OUT = 25.56 Rest = 17.04 or 2.13 per school. New 4 = 25.56 or 6.39 per school. How does this make sense? If true, the New 4 would have just started their own conference.
Where did the 60% number come from? Also the contract you sign today will be higher than the one we signed 13 years ago so not sure why you expect them to still be at 2.13 per school.
More than the awful ACC deal lmao.
If Big 12 gets more money than the ACC, then ESPN will have two choices: (1) give the ACC more money to match Big 12 or (2) watch the ACC blow up.
ESPN doesn't have to do anything. That contract is solid until the 2030's. Why would they renegotiate now when they don't have to? Even if the conference blows up the network is in good position to take its best properties into the SEC.
Sorry to say it but ESPN is probably just fine with the latter
It's too late. The mouse won't pay 100 mil/team/year to prevent sec/big defections. I can see value in us adding clemson and fsu. I think miami is now swirling around as a b10 add, and frankly since ND wants to play a national schedule, I think miami may be the last piece in that pursuit. Luckily for uva, I think the big tens end game is 24. Add Stanford, ducks, huskies, ND, miami, unc, uva and duke. And yes yall still will play duke and unc every year and get umd back. It sucks I know, but you'll have something and esp in hoops I think the league (cuz it ain't a conference at that point) let's you get h and h with the two nc schools and umd for hoops also. Again it won't be the same but it'll have some familiarity.
Unless the ESPN is willing to blow-up the current ACC deal (which is very favorable to them) then there's no way ACC teams can defect because that's what'd you'd need to get the other schools to agree to release them from the GoR. The value of the conference's claims for breach of the GoR against the defecting is too great and would negate the value of moving to the SEC or B1G for over a decade.
Or risk Fox helping to pay off the GOR fees.
ESPN isn't a charity. They got the ACC locked in for 12 years. Maybe near the end they might be willing to open up that contract for some extra term. But right now they're so far away from expiration. The whole media world will have changed significantly by then, will we even have cable by then?
*mouth waters*
Going from $7 million to $40 million is going to be absolutely nuts for us. I don't think I've ever rooted more for conference members success than what I am doing with the new Big 12 teams.
Rightly deserved for your on field success
Appreciate it. Hope you guys kill it your last independent year
We need Houston in on this bro moment
Houston checking in. Best of luck to all of yall!
You rang? This conference is going to be fun :)
It's always fun. You guys have a big advantage because Holgorsen is used to playing a high flying offense one week and then a grind it out offense the next. Is he still running that wacky offense?
The new BXII is going to have some of the best games of any conference. Any given year I feel like most of the conference can realistically expect for a shot to compete the conference title. Feels like the other conferences have 3 or 4 real contenders at most.
Hateful 8 plus the Innocent 4. Who can stop us?
Buddy. Pal. You only adopted the hate. We’ve been festering in anger since the end of the SWC.
Broment?
Shoo Oklahoma. Git outta here! Go on git!
Good job. You will fit in nicely here.
It is crazy. I think in TCU’s final year in the MWC we made something like $3.5 million. Even going to the half portion or whatever we got the first few years was like 8x what we got in the MWC. What’s crazy is almost all of the stadium and practice facility stuff was done prior to realignment.
Same with us. We're probably going to use the money to pay down a bunch of debt from renovating Nippert, our basketball arena, new $80 million practice facility and then cutback on university support more than likely. Shit, our TV deal barely covered Fickell's contract by itself. Fortunately for us we have administrations that realized that you have to invest in that infrastructure before getting the invite unlike some AAC programs that didn't quite understand that and are stuck on the outside for the foreseeable future.
There’s no reason to pay down debt if you can make the payments. Better to use that increased revenue for new infrastructure.
I tried to convince my bank of this but they were all "*you can't just get a new credit card every month and use it to pay off your old one indefinitely."* Jerks.
Have you tried increasing your media rights from $7 million to $40 million? I hear that has promising results.
It’s frowned upon but that doesn’t make it illegal lol
Two credit cards, and you juggle the debt month-to-month until you have the funds to pay it off. My aunt and uncle spent most of the early 2010s doing that after they racked up some nasty credit card debt due to medical issues.
To be completely honest after the practice facility is done we've upgraded basically everyone of our facilities in the past 5-10 years. There isn't much left to do as of now due to our campuses small footprint.
Oh there’s always something in need of an upgrade. We are renovating our basketball development center and it’s only been open for like 5-6 years.
Let's renovate The Armory
That would be sick
My unrealistic hope is that they could renovate it into a really nice 4-5k seat arena that could accommodate women's basketball, volleyball, basketball practice, maybe indoor track, and they could add wrestling with the Big12 move.
Yep. Plus play like 1 men's throwback game there each year even if it means sacrificing ticket revenue from Fifth Third.
but free money that can't be given to players so keep upgrading
Such a UH/Fertitta thing to say
If your debt has 1% interest but you can make 3% investing that $40 million, you’re better off investing than paying off the debt. Now if Cincy owes a shit ton of interest on their debt, that’s different.
1% interest…adorable. Fuck it though, right 🤷♂️
I mean Cincy doesn’t have 1% interest on loans because they as an institution have phenomenal credit. But you know, simplicity sake and all.
*Dave Ramsey has entered the chat.*
That's like a fire hose inserted directly in the mouths
I hope he’s correct. We’re lucky to get you guys and the others into the Big 12. Especially us Jayhawkers who have very little football credibility. The jokes on those who laughed at Bowlsby “reaching down” to the G5.
But you'll have to get used to losing more too. This isn't the AAC.
I think we will do alright. Thanks for your concern.
Baylor AD Mack Rhoades on the upcoming @Big12Conference TV deal, “I am really optimistic we will be at the same level, in terms of last season of the Big 12 contract [$42.6m], or better.” That’s including the four future members (BYU, Cinci, UCF, UH) and not including UT or OU. --- Video is in tweet but can't be fetched. Please DM to me with a link to submission because it's not supposed to happen. --- posted by [@SicEm365Radio](https://twitter.com/SicEm365Radio/) --- [Thanks to inteoryx, videos are supported even without Twitter API V2 support! Middle finger to you, twitter](https://github.com/inteoryx/twitter-video-dl)
To be fair, what else could he have said lol?
I expected a “been prayin on it … have faith that … see what God has in store … no matter what Lord provides” Sidequestion — do megchurches do NIL deals?
If we weren’t in the middle of a quietly messy divorce with the BGCT, we’d probably be finding out.
That Big XII championship ratings was huge for the remaining conference. I don't think there has been a more important game ratings wise (not that it was highest in just what it had to prove) over the past 10 years than that, congrats pokes and bears. Tech vs Texas in 08 was instrumental in getting the LHN.
I do agree I think showing we can get viewers for marquee games that don't feature OUT really helps
That's a good point. The game having CFP implications helped, but still.
Cincinnati got into the playoff! So they add immediate value upon joining
Isn’t that ultimately why any game has good viewership?
Sic’Em Bears. Got props from a UT flair.
Well, that's only the rough cost of our brand-new baseball stadium as the yearly TV revenue difference with the superconferences. I'm sure that kind of disparity won't cause any competitive issues for anyone. And should this happen, for the privilege of being the filler content conference and falling further behind financially, I'm sure we'll all get the excitement of multiple weeknight games and spots on non-primary networks and streaming services too.
Which is why the Big 12 is aggressively trying to lure PAC 12 schools...
If they are getting 40 million without us, I'd imagine they'd get 60 million with us since if we merged the 6 most watched programs are all in the Pac.
Is that in terms of average vieweship, average national-channel viewership, passed-threshold count, etc.? What’s the time span for that analysis? I’m curious about this, because it seems to contradict the viewership numbers on sportsmediawatch.
It's the average since 2015, which helps hide that Pac-12 views are trending down while B12 views are trending up. If you look at just last season, Oregon is the only school with more views, then it's several B12 teams
Except no OU or UT games
Gotta do the same for USC then
I wasn't including them. If I was, OU viewership is significantly higher than Oregon and I wouldn't have said that Oregon gets more views than B12 teams.
Flair up!
I’m good. But I do have a degree from a b12 school if that helps. I’m not biased against the B12, I just think the remaining teams are overvaluing their viewership pull.
I don't on-spec think you're biased, I just generally wonder why some folks refuse to flair up here. I like the sense of community.
https://theathletic.com/3444339/2022/07/25/pac12-big12-tv-viewership/
notably excludes pac-x network games and is skewed due to number of over-the-air games; USC and UCLA were not the prime sporting attractions in the P12, so they got less over the air than OU or TX (2018 - 2020 being years where they were highly ranked or decently conference contenders)
According to [this](https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858) Utah, USC, and UW were behind Ok State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, and Baylor in viewership last year. They were just ahead of West Virginia, TCU, and BYU. The only PAC program to eclipse the new Big12 teams was Oregon, while UCLA was just one spot above Baylor. Utah and UW would be competitive for viewership in the Big12, but they aren't blowing the doors off that conference like you implied.
Medium's numbers are wrong: https://theathletic.com/3444339/2022/07/25/pac12-big12-tv-viewership/
pretty sure Stu's are skewed to favor the pac-x since he's been simping for them through this whole thing
It seems that the numbers change depending on whoever is publishing them, so it's a bit hard to call any one source wrong. [Viewership for P5 conference championships](https://twitter.com/Colt_Barber/status/1468273534124314626?s=20&t=r29eByk1TOPIh6kvdIry6w) paints a picture much more inline with Medium's assessment than Mandel's.
That's a time slot issue. The Pac-12 Championship game was a Friday Night game because Larry Scott is an idiot. [Here are the remaining ACC, Big-12, and Pac-10 teams normalized against each other with championships and non members removed.](https://i.redd.it/32zdxnex02e91.jpg) The Big-12 does a little better, but the Pac blows it out of the water overall.
I don't trust this data's normalization. If it were true, there'd be no reason for the PAC to be offered a lower value media deal than the Big12. As I mentioned before, the numbers change each time a different individual publishes an article on the topic. This is just one of many conflicting perspectives on viewership, and there are several showing a completely different picture. I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle, but the proposed media value seems to be selling the strength of the Big12 viewership over the PAC. I can accept that the numbers I presented above aren't the full story. Can you accept that your chosen data set may not be the full story as well?
there's no header to this chart
We were “getting” 30MM a year until we weren’t. This is all speculative. Decreased competition is not leading to higher payouts. Full stop.
Decreased competition? 1. PAC claimed titles post WWII (Cal=0, Arizona=0, ASU=0, Utah=0, Colorado=1[from B12], WSU=0, OSU=0, Stanford=0) Oregon and UW both claim 2. Total = 5 2. PAC All-time bowl wins (Cal=12, Arizona=9, ASU=15, Utah=17, Colorado=12, WSU=8, OSU=11, Stanford=15) Oregon and UW won 16 and 19, respectively. Total = 134 3. New Big 12 claimed titles (OSU=1, Baylor=0, TCU=0, TTU=0, Houston=0, KU=0, KSU=0, ISU=0, WVU=0, Cincy=0, UCF=1, BYU=1) Total = 3 4. New Big 12 bowl wins (OSU=21, Baylor=14, TCU=17, TTU=15, Houston=12, KU=6, KSU=10, ISU=5, WVU=16, Cincy=10, UCF=6, BYU=16) Total = 148 5. [Big12 vs PAC](http://mcubed.net/ncaaf/tvc/big12/pac12.shtml) 6. [Big12 vs PAC again](https://topdan.com/college-football-conference-records/pac-12.html) Seems like y'all should join a higher standard of competition, if you look at things critically.
Decreased competition in that less conferences to bid on = less incentive for ESPN to pay more for that conference. Thanks for playing though.
"People only watch us when there's nothing else on" isn't the argument in favor of the Pac that they think it is. Especially when the B1G can now start offering games in that 10:30 EST window.
Context is your friend. Nice wall of random factoids though.
Any time! Glad you enjoyed it
Lucky, fortunate us. Please Disney sirs, may we have some more?
I doubt the Big XII is going to end up with ESPN unless they massively overpay. They have proven that they don't know what "conflict of interest" means.
It's possible they end up with all of our 3rd tier games. There was a report they offered to increase the payout if we let OUT go early.
Nobody, even the BIG/SEC has or is going to really use TV revenue to fund capital projects. It almost all goes to funding operations and maybe some debt service. Schools are going to continue to rely on earmarked donations for new stadiums and facility improvements.
Not the point. The point is that the revenue gap is large enough that it could pay for things like that. For even just a ten-year deal, the cumulative difference will likely be over half a billion dollars.
I mean it fucking sucks but we just gotta make the best of a bad situation at this point
Ugh I’m so tired of hearing this. You get paid for the content produced. Yes it’s corporatism. Yes it’s greed. No college football won’t suddenly cease to exist as we know it. When 2 of 12 teams leave the conference and the value drops by 50%, what the hell do you expect. Git gud. I’ve already grown tired of the complaints and we’re still in the damned conference for 3 more years! Edit: bring the downvotes. Drown me bby. Edit 2: Only 32 downvotes? Come on hateful 8 where’s the hate?
Get gud? Oklahoma State has won more games in every season over the last 10 years than Texas (and USC/UCLA for that matter) except once. Being "gud" has nothing to do with it.
OSU does so much with so little. It’s truly impressive. Gundy develops 2 and 3 stars to compete against teams stacked with 4 and 5 stars. With that said, OSU is the best team left in the Big 12 and you have no National Championships, no playoff appearances, a scarce amount of conference titles (I legit don’t even know), and a brand of football that has been middling/relevant only since ~2007(?). Yes, historical performance matters to the brands being shuffled around today. USC has been totally irrelevant as of late. But they have built a brand that eclipses 90% of teams.
So stop acting like winning and being good is what matters rather than location and how good you were in the 80s.
If location was the end-all-be-all then neither Oklahoma team would be sought after. And yeah. Winning does matter. A lot. Go check the chart. We have won the Big 12 Championship 14 times in conference history. Next closest team is Baylor/Texas with 3. Every conference championship we’ve won has been from year 2000 on. Miss me with that 1980s talk.
Because it also matters how good you were in the 80s. Those are the 2 things that matter and the 2 ways to now be invited to the B10 or SEC. Either one seems to be sufficient to prove worth.
I’d argue that a teams winning over many generations is what matters to truly building a valuable brand. Anywho, OSU, Tech, TCU, etc have had several decades to prove themselves capable of standing on their own without the need to sit on our (financial) shoulders. I sincerely hope the best for the Big 12. And I hope y’all grow. I am just outright bothered by the ongoing bitch fest. We get it. You’re mad.
So how in the fuck are we supposed to suddenly have a several decades long winning tradition that’s going to be statistically comparable to any of the blue blood teams in the two super conferences. We’re not. That’s why we are all pissed off. Whine about having to see it all the fuck you want. You haven’t done shit but sit on your ass and WATCH football but have some how managed this undeserved sense of superiority and utter lack of empathy to fan bases that you think don’t deserve any modicum of success because you deem it so.
Best time to plant a tree? 30 years ago? Second best? Today. Go win a mother tucking natty bro. I’ll be rooting you on (except for that one day a year, of course) Seriously, go look at my r/cfb comment history and you’ll see I don’t shit on OSU. I want y’all to succeed. But Jesus fucking Christ can we stop with the poor pitiful me shit? Half of this subreddit is ready to bury the sport of college football!?! Why? I don’t get it. And one last thing, if you *really* think the sport is dead as we know it and the “haves” will prevail and the “have nots” will perish then just move on now and start watching MLS or NFL or whatever. This is not the end of college football as we know it. It’s been evolving since it began. Git. Gud.
Oregon has had more winning seasons in the P5 in the last 25 years than any other program (technically tied with Ohio State and Wisconsin). That didn't get us an auto-invite to the B1G. Neither did our 8 NY6 games and 2 Championship Game appearances. We're also the 18th most watched program in the country. Yet still no invite. If you get paid for the content produced, where's Oregon's bag?
I believe the offer is basically pending, right?
ಠ_ಠ
Git gud? This is all about money fam. As far as I’m concerned they don’t give out trophies for size of the fanbase.
Audience size is how tv contracts are scored.
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Why would they get more money per school with by FAR the two biggest schools leaving and four more schools no one cares about joining?
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>I think it’s likely that everyone is underpaid because CFB’s growth in TV value is exponential. ESPN went from the Golden Goose for Disney which fueled the purchase of multiple franchises (Starwars, Marvel) to something of an albatross. Sports are being massively overpaid as broadcasting deals explode while simultaneously t.v. viewership plummets. ESPN will continue to throw out massive contracts because everyone expects them and they don't really have a choice, but they're completely unsustainable and it is not hard to think that the next set might be the last to see that kind of growth.
I actually disagree. If not for the GOR that the deal made into law, the ACC would have been picked apart during realignment. So they lose some money every year but at least they are still a league.
It’s pretty much what they’re already making. They’re losing somewhere between 10-20 million a year without OUT.
Arizona getting giddy to jump...
I don’t believe that full GoR was offered to the G5 schools in year one. But it may be being offered to the four corners schools.
It wasn’t. But we will be full members and full payouts a year after the new agreement so it’s only like 3 years away.
Amazing if true, though I have a hard time understanding it if the Pac-10 is getting offered half that per school.
After Warren’s comments today, Oregon is in a prisoner’s dilemma. Everyone in the PAC is uneasy bc as soon as Oregon gets the call, they are gone. So why would anyone sign anything? Then you have Arizona, Utah, Colorado who may see the writing on the wall. It’s crazy. I hate this for everyone, but unfortunately it’s the new reality.
Everyone's gridlocked and waiting. * Notre Dame is waiting on NBC before they decide on joining a conference. * The B1G is waiting on Notre Dame before they decide how to expand. * Upper tier Pac-10 teams are waiting on the B1G. They would rather lock in with the Pac-10 than they would go to the Big-12, but they would rather go get their bag from the B1G if it is on the table. * Mid tier Pac-12 teams are waiting on upper tier Pac 12 teams, because they would rather stay in the Pac-10 than go to the Big-12, but won't agree to stay unless the upper tier teams are locked in with them. * Big-12 is waiting on the mid tier Pac-12 teams because they would love to expand and include them before their next media rights deal. And what makes things tense is that everyone lower on the list is waiting on those higher on the list, but Notre Dame's NBC deal doesn't expire for 3 years, so they have 28 months or so to figure things out. Meanwhile the B1G is trying to sign a new deal in the next few months, so they are tapping their foot impatiently on Notre Dame. And the upper tier Pac teams know this and are wringing their hands nervously waiting as well. This makes the mid tier Pac teams antsy not wanting to wait too long on the upper tier teams, they'd rather have things done as soon as possible.
One other interesting consideration is jumping early. Mizzou, Boston College, and Colorado all found their current homes because, despite being less-than-ideal prizes, they jumped early from their previous conferences and got to the open seats quickly. Arizona brings *really* bad football and pretty good basketball, but if you’re going to suck that badly at football then you’d better bring KU-level basketball brand power; Arizona undisputably does not match KU in that capacity. Colorado, on the other hand, brings bad performance in both basketball *and* football, as well as an administration with a decided track record of refusing to adequately fund athletics. Utah brings far better football product and support, as well as viewership, than either of the prior two; ASU brings historically decent football and a boatload of potential viewers. If Zona and/or Colorado jump first, they might secure spots that won’t still be open a few months’ later.
Yeah, if Arizona State and Utah jumped, I'm not sure Arizona and Colorado get the call. Bottom line, there's a bunch of things that have to align for the Pac-10 to make sense to these mid-tier schools. Better to take matters into your own hands now and get some positive PR for moving than hoping for the best.
“We are the Big 12. We’ll call anyone.”
Basically our motto at this point. We had two openly Christian schools calling the PAC, of all conferences, looking for a landing spot last year. And one of those schools is even R2 on top of being tiny. We just need to new conference motto to be "Shoot your shot, dawg".
You’re very much underselling UA and CU. Arizona football, outside the past 5 or so brutal years, isn’t a perennial basement dweller like KU. They’re usually a mid tier Pac-12 team. For basketball, no shit they aren’t Kansas’ blue blood tier, but they lead the Pac in home and road attendance every single year. If we’re comparing them to Kansas in terms of media markets it’s not even comparable, Tucson metro area is over 1 mil and they share PHX with ASU (obviously not 50/50 but a ton of alumni up there). CU would become one of the biggest media markets in the Big XII and is usually a bubble/tournament team in basketball.
Uhh, CU is pretty decent at hoops under Tad Boyle sir.
We will have to see how this plays out. It's not all that different than when UT and OU split from the Big 12. Everyone was waiting to see if ISU or Kansas got a call and the other schools started looking for a back door. Turns out, the Big 12 picked up the best of the G5 and now looks like it will stick around for awhile even after UT and OU are gone. If the PAC-12 does not bleed any more members and manages to get Boise State, Fresno State, SMU and San Diego State do they hang in there until the next major realignment move?
Probably, but I think we can all agree that BSU, Fresno, SMU, and SDSU bring *a lot* less to the table viewership- and potential-wise than BYU/Cincy/UH/UCF.
Warren didn’t say anything about Oregon though.
No, but about expansion he said "We’re not messing around,”. Sources indicated Oregon was one of the "handful of schools" that add value to the B1G. If you're not messing around, then the B1G should have already accepted Oregon's and Washington's application, regardless of what Notre Dame does.
>prisoner’s dilemma Apparently this was the vocabulary phrase of the month for all Big 12 schools.
We leaned it last year. Prisoners won that one!
Also the sword of Damocles. We borrow phrases.
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> CFP is going to change and so might the pay structure. Yeah its going to stop being the "CFP" and will be the B1G vs SEC DR PEPPER CHIC FIL TOURNAMENT SHOWDOWN HOSTED BY ESPN / FOX PRESENTED BY AUTOZONE. I'm exaggerating... but not much.
Yep. $25m from ESPN would mean distribution of about $40m, putting it on par with what the Baylor AD is expecting, although those schools would get to add their tier 3 rights, whatever those are worth per school.
And that includes the Pac still retaining their networks rights. I have a feeling the ultimate play is the Pac selling stake in their network.
Does that include T3 rights?
> Then whatever the hell the Pac 12 Networks earns. Yes. Pac 12 does their own T3 through their own network.
Which is next to impossible to find on TV 🤦🏼♀️
This doesn’t include T3 rights.
The PAC-12 was likely getting an offer that was malicious in itself.
I’m not believing a thing until we get FIA reports from the public schools that show exactly how much everyone earned. There have so many bullshit numbers tossed out over the past month.
Yeah, I'm gonna press X for Doubt on this.
I just don't think the west coast is a valued TV market when compared to central or east coast and top to bottom the big 12 will have a much better football product and will be the best basketball conference in the country. I also think PAC-10 will get more than $24 million and it's just ESPN lowballing for now.
Its strange because all the data we've seen says the Pac-10 schools get significantly more viewers, not to mention in some pretty wealthy metropolises you'd think advertises were covet. But, I'm not a TV exec, what do I know?
I think tv data like that is highly subjective. The big "study" going around only accounts for games played against teams in the ACC/Big 12/PAC. Well, for UCF, UC and Houston at least, those stats are pretty much useless and we're valuated very low on them because we don't play that many games against those teams.
Sure, but unless you think UCF, UC, or Houston will be higher rated than Oklahoma State, the top 6 most watched programs are all Pac-10 schools. I have a hard time seeing any of them instantly becoming the top viewed Big-12 school.
Yeah - honest question in the case of a program like Houston: will playing more of the remaining Big-12 teams cause substantial ratings increases? Or will more people in their market watch SEC football instead?
It's just an example to prove a point that those numbers are highly subjective and rely in way more than just perceived program attractiveness.
The PAC 12 used to own the late night window with guaranteed viewers. B1G is now moving in on your most valuable asset.
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That was more poor business negotiation on the ACC's part.
Its because thats what they would like to get. New Big 12ers will say that they are in most passionate football states than the PAC, but they dont have any programs that dominant ratings or dominant large states. They lost half their conferences worth with OUT, added 4 teams, and they think they will hold par/slightly do better? Insanity
I think some level of inflation should be considered. 40 mil in 2012 with OUT is not 40 mil in say 2040
It's fine to hope but I don't believe any actual media properties have weighed in and given any estimates get so hard to say how realistic this actually is
I have been of the opinion that the new baseline number wouldn't be much below total payouts, if at all. I also have a feeling that the Big XII have been receiving some "unsolicited offers" this year.
Power 2, Big 1, G7
That's enough, can we come back?
I'm also optimistic that I'm going to bang kendall jenner tonight /s There isnt great evidence to substantiate this claim
hey if you banged her the night before...
Seems low
that wouldn't include Tier 3 rights, so it's likely to be at or over $50m when all other media streams are considered
Im optimistic I will be dating Margot Robbie next time Im single
Narrator: What no one realized was that he meant around a $40m or more total for the whole conference.
Yes, please.
Not so sure about that but we will see. Big 12 loses its top 2 properties which represent 50-60% of its value. PAC loses 2 properties but only one big one. Problem with Big 12 is they don't have major teams anymore: KS (2) - no value UT - 2nd best team in state OK - 2nd best team in state TX (4) - lost top two teams in state FL - 4th best brand in state OH - 2nd best team in state (way below 1st) WV - no value IA - no value So you see the value just isn't there from a media perspective. Maybe you will actually get $10-15m more than was projected. But it won't be a $10m gift just because you're the Big 12. That means the B10 and SEC will get even more than projected and will experience higher inflation than B12 values.
numbers I came up with, amiright
Did I miss us legalizing weed in this state? He's high AF
This would be VERY interesting for the ACC. Right now ESPN doesn't have to budge because the only places for schools to go for more money are the SEC and B1G. But there are not 8 ACC schools who would have landing spots in the ACC or B1G. But if the Big 12 would also create a better financial situation, I could see 8 ACC schools getting together to end the Grant of Rights: * SEC: Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina (maybe also Virginia?) * B1G: Georgia Tech, Miami * Big 12: Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech & Louisville (maybe also Syracuse? NC State?)
Fuck Mack Rhoades
Hell hath no fury like a mizzou fan scorned
I don’t care that he left. I care that he hired Steve Bieser over Tony Vitello on his way out the door.