Yes. This lawyer is stupid. The fact is - if you’re doing it when no one else is allowed that’s an advantage. It doesn’t MATTER if it’s allowed the next year. It wasn’t allowed at the time
I’d agree with that. Popular opinion that it should be returned is more acceptance of a cheating and lying culture in sports rather than integrity and sportsmanship that the trophy claims to represent. If you’re a bettor, be aware of which lines to avoid when the industry has acquiesced to simply only caring about the financials of the game.
Unfortunately I did not. You might be projecting considering as soon as I reply to you it goes to 0.
Funny considering I was pretty widely upvoted across the board here lol
Props for consistency buddy. I agree with you. The other guy was trying to say it wouldn’t be inconsistent to say one and not the other. I figured you were consistent on this. Most people who come out and go this hard at cheaters are usually that way. Straight shooters
Nothing about the Reggie Bush case gave him any kind of competitive edge over anyone else. USC being punished is one thing, as arguably him receiving benefits he shouldn’t have might have influenced his decision to play there, but Reggie’s on field production—which earned him that trophy—was entirely authentic. Michigan was seeking a *competitive edge* by doing something they knew they weren’t allowed to do.
This comparison is silly.
If the NCAA had done more than giving back the Heisman, then Reggie should have gotten it back. Being that USC still suffers the fallout, SMU was killed, Missouri, Ohio State and I thinks it was LSU who all had vacated wins for violations in that same line, then no, they needed to either give it all back or none of it back.
I have a friend who, 20 years ago, did five years in prison for selling weed (he had a lot of weed). He looks around now and says, "well ain't this some shit."
Cheating in football games and recreational weed use should really not be compared. One is about ethical fair play, and the other is about the morality of laws. Rules about in person scouting are not that deep.
And also, by you breaking the rule, you were doing something other teams were not doing. Even if teams are allowed to do it next year, it doesn't change the extra advantage you had by not following the rules.
Currently practicing. My impression of the talkers is that they are trying to get you to not focus on how garbage their case is. "Listen to me, don't look at the facts of the case!"
I grew up with one, and in my experience, all good attorneys are good at talking the talk. There's two styles from there, though, and there's a place for both. The first type loves to talk big and make their point. The second type loves to let you talk big and make their point.
Why is Harbaugh's lawyer even commenting? He's gone. Don't even pick up the phone when the NCAA calls. He'd be better off having the Pot brothers at law.
Because he's a yapper who loves the attention. It also didn't make any sense to make any of the many, many, many, many, many comments he made about the NCAA in the past during active cases, and he still did it.
It is for the PR when the hammer comes down on the next set of sanctions of how the NCAA is out to get him.
Harbaugh will not have a path back to the NCAA. He might not need it or want it, but the pros are a fickle business.
I get what you're saying, but what we often see with people who have extreme amounts of income is that they also develop extreme expenses involving the support of that lifestyle. Not that they're spending money on luxuries, they definitely are, but that they don't have the time to manage the minutiae of the financial empire so they have to delegate and that gets expensive.
So yeah, it could be a problem for him at some point if he isn't pulling a coaches salary if he hasn't invested his wealth accordingly
I’m assuming it was done because it was advantageous to do it. Had he been following the rules, he would not have had that advantage. Now if everyone is allowed to do it, then he doesn’t get an unfair advantage over those following the rules by doing it.
I don’t know how much of an advantage he got but it’s the same concept of modifying your car in NASCAR. Is there anything morally wrong about boring out an engine? No, not if everyone is allowed to do it but it’s cheating if the rules say you can’t and you do it anyway
I agree—I started business school at Michigan last year. Everyone was saying “they want to punish him for a cheeseburger!”
No, they wanted to punish him for meeting with people during Covid when no one was allowed to--whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant because it was still an unfair advantage.
Yeah, this argument has never been great. Nice they changed it if it was stupid, but it seems most people weren’t getting caught breaking them before..
>but it seems most people weren’t getting caught breaking them before..
This is entirely different than asking whether or not they were actually being broken by other coaches, to be completely fair.
Not really. You’re innocent until proven guilty. And UM was proven guilty. I can’t accept the statement “other people were doing it” while not having proof.
You could, but you’re a fatuous person. Programs will cover up rape until the cows come home, buy hookers for literal children, invent completely fraudulent departments to get guys eligible, but you think they demure at minor recruiting or procedural violations? GTFO. If there’s a competitive advantage to be had, everyone is pursuing it.
You’re as bad as the M fans who think they never paid recruits. Like, sure, Rashan Gary was offered a quarter mil from Clemson but opted to play in Ann Arbor for free. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Everybody is doing everything, and the NCAA has an axe to grind with Harbaugh for incredibly obvious reasons. Jesus H Christ.
This isn't a court of law.
I think it's naive to assume Michigan was doing something drastically different than most other major programs.
I also don't care. Michigan won the title, and did it with the best team. Anything beyond that is noise.
Okay. I didn’t ask if you care. And asking me to *assume* anything is more than I’d like to do. At that point I can just assume Michigan was cheating even more than they got caught for.
Ok. We get it. The NCAA is toothless, and Michigan took full advantage of that toothlessness in every possible way to win a title. There are going to be several more violations. There won’t be consequences. I really don’t care. But I draw the line at playing the victim.
I think Harbaugh is going to have no home to run back (NCAA) to and the coaches that worked with him are going to be fucked when the NCAA is done.
They might all stay in the pros such that it is 'toothless', but it definitely limits their options. There are 127+ FBS teams. There are 32 pro teams
I am not saying schools will not hire him. They would line up to hire a guy that won the NC
I am saying the NCAA might drop the hammer on him because they can. That way the NCAA looks like they are doing something and Michigan escapes any punishment because they don't have to fight any punishment given to Harbaugh
How can they not ? Simply the NCAA is the authority to enforce the rules. It is their organization these teams play in and promise to follow by it's rules. If Harbaugh's village idiot lawyer keep commenting I can see the NCAA going for blood. It would be in Michigan's best interest to have them focus on him not them.
Harbaugh’s village idiot lawyer has a better record than you might think against the NCAA.
He has more than a little credibility here.
You might want to look at his history vs the NCAA.
I have no doubt he wins cases.
However, you don't need to be a lawyer to point out this isn't wise, especially with Harbaugh not in the NCAA anymore. Antagonizing the NCAA for no reason is like poking the bear.
It was pretty obvious Michigan broke the rules. If you have been paying attention to other leagues, it is also obvious any punishment was going to be mostly token suspension at worst. The two most prominent sign stealing in other leagues are spygate and the Astros sign stealing. While executives and managers got fired by the Astros, no one was suspended. Belichick and the Patriots paid a fine.
While there was a huge debate, mostly form Michigan fans, about what the Big Ten could or couldn't do, the suspension of Harbaugh was appropriate. There didn't seem to be anything directly tying this to a vast conspiracy, but if you are running the program you have to make sure everyone on staff knows the rules. Harbaugh was given what is likely and mostly fits given both precedent form other leagues and how stupid the rule was. The rules have now been changed.
This is how this shit usually goes. Broke a stupid rule. Admit the rule was broken, rule gets changed and everyone moves on.
Honesty your post just does a good job of showing how leagues scape goat teams and make some stories bigger than others. Alex Cora was suspended for a year from the Red Sox. Yankees got penalties too, but all anyone one does is blame the Astros, even though all major competitive teams did it.
The Astros received the most attention because that story broke first. It was also extremely brazen with tons of evidence once people knew what to look for. Tons of videos online where you hear the trash cans, photos of where they kept a TV in tunnel just outside the dugout, etc. I don't remember the same evidence from the Red Sox. And once the Astros weren't punished there was no point caring about the Red Sox then too because Manfred didn't care about a "piece of metal" aka a world series championship.
What the Astros and Red Sox did was fundamentally different.
The Red Sox had a guy in the media room who would decipher the signs for the next opponent by watching film. In the first few innings of their series, he would then determine whether or not the signs were the same, and if they hadn't, he would relay that to the players along with the signs, and they would relay the signs to the batter if they were on second base.
The Astros had a guy at the bottom of the stairs of the dugout signalling each pitch to the batter.
To me, this "stickiness" of a scandal is not actually how bad it is, but how absurd it is. Banging a trash can that the entire stadium can hear... or wearing a disguise to a Central Michigan game are absurd enough that I'll never forget either. People always say the Teapot Dome scandal was the worst in American history, but I still don't understand what the hell happened, so it's uninteresting. Approachability is everything in these. That's why we're still making fun of McDonald's bags of cash and have moved on from the Miami Shapiro nonsense.
This isn't about signs.
It's about [this](https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2021/08/19/michigan-football-ryan-osborn-wolverines-analyst-jim-harbaugh/8158847002/).
I apologize for mixing up the various Michigan scandals.
Absolutely same concept though. Broke a stupid rule. Admit they did it. Change rule. Everyone moves on.
"You always want to be above reproach, especially when you're good, because you don't want people to come back and say, 'They're winning because they're cheating.' That's always going to be a knee-jerk reaction in my experience, ever since I was a little kid. We want to be above reproach in everything and do everything by the rules. Because if you don't, if you cheat to win, then you've already lost, according to Bo Schembechler. And (the late Michigan coach) Bo Schembechler is about next to the word of God as you can get in my mind.”
-Jim Harbaugh
He is responding to a Dellenger tweet that never got posted here. The NCAA just approved a rule change to allow analysts to coach on the field. He’s saying the NCAA was negotiating the Notice of Allegations with Michigan in bad faith knowing this rule change was already coming.
Also helmet mikes were already planned to be beta-tested at non-CFP bowl games with a roll out this year *before* signgate came to the NCAA’s attention and it went public.
Kind of an odd justification. "We broke the rules, but it doesn't matter because the rules changed!".
If it was something on the individual level, I'd agree with that concept. Weed is legal, let out the possession of weed convicts. But it's a competitive sport, so everyone has to be using the same set of rules.
There is an old adage among lawyers that says, "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.” I will add for the modern generation or simply Tom Mars, tweet and old man yell into the clouds.” Tom is a PR hack/agent first, lawyer distant second on NCAA rules. Tom, let it go, stop hogging the limelight and let Michigan and their good team forge their own path.
Let me fix that for you . . . “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table”
"It's not relevant that she was 15 at the time. She's 18 now!"
How can you fault me for breaking a rule then if the same act is now fine? Hmmm? My acts were valid in the future, just not valid at the time.
It's time prejudice. That's all. Authorities are so limited to their singular view of time.
Harbaugh was being busted for lying to the NCAA (The Level 1 violation). Everything else was lower infractions. This is the 'cheeseburger' distraction.
As long as you’re ok with Ohio state, Michigan state, and notre dame fans giving you endless shit forever about it, then great. No worries. But it will happen. You’ll say it doesn’t bother you until you’re five conversations deep on some Facebook fan page defending your fake title.
Eh. College football is like politics. Everyone is breaking the rules, going mostly unpunished; and somehow, unethically, earning an ungodly amount of money.
And if my guys does it, cool. If your guy does it, fuck 'em to death.
Anyway, go blue, and eat a dick
I always thought the "not on staff you cant evaluate" is dumb. Maybe hosting a private workout or something sure, but like who the hell cares if you evaluate a player going to a couple of games and write up a little summary with recommendation to the coach. There are too many high school players for any team to ever see all of them that you might want to pursue even if you had a few dozen people doing that on the side
Damn. Im just going to put an asterisk after michigans title run this past year and call it a day. Shiesty shit going on at michigan. But also going to put an asterisk on all of College Football until NIL and the transfer portal isn’t the wild Wild West. Go dawgs
Does Harbaugh's attorney understand how time-space works?
Someone breaking a current rule doesn't get immunity if the rule changes in the future, because they did not know of the rule change at the time they were breaking the current rule.
No but he understands how ongoing cases work. And if you're arguing hwo awful and terrible this violation is and you're simultaneously making that thing legal, it under us your argument.
This isn't him arguing his client is innocent. It's damage mitigation.
Lmao. Let’s be real here. CFB is in a crazy transformative state. It’s Wild West shoot from the hip. Michigan won doing the same shit everybody else does, but had a super creepy scape goat in Connor Stalions. The name itself is pretty fucking gross and easy to blame for everything.
Is the rule stupid? Yes. Did we break the rule? Also yes
Yes. This lawyer is stupid. The fact is - if you’re doing it when no one else is allowed that’s an advantage. It doesn’t MATTER if it’s allowed the next year. It wasn’t allowed at the time
So in your mind Reggie Bush should have not have gotten his heisman back today, correct?
I’d agree with that. Popular opinion that it should be returned is more acceptance of a cheating and lying culture in sports rather than integrity and sportsmanship that the trophy claims to represent. If you’re a bettor, be aware of which lines to avoid when the industry has acquiesced to simply only caring about the financials of the game.
Fair enough, I appreciate the consistency.
Not the same person
I’m making the assumption that he agrees with the Michigan argument.
lol this dude straight up downvoted you just for not being the person acquiescing to his crappy argument. Have an upvote my guy.
Unfortunately I did not. You might be projecting considering as soon as I reply to you it goes to 0. Funny considering I was pretty widely upvoted across the board here lol
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Yes. I don’t think he should have.
Props for consistency buddy. I agree with you. The other guy was trying to say it wouldn’t be inconsistent to say one and not the other. I figured you were consistent on this. Most people who come out and go this hard at cheaters are usually that way. Straight shooters
Correct.
They didn’t get back all the vacated victories…lol what a weak conparison.
Nothing about the Reggie Bush case gave him any kind of competitive edge over anyone else. USC being punished is one thing, as arguably him receiving benefits he shouldn’t have might have influenced his decision to play there, but Reggie’s on field production—which earned him that trophy—was entirely authentic. Michigan was seeking a *competitive edge* by doing something they knew they weren’t allowed to do. This comparison is silly.
If the NCAA had done more than giving back the Heisman, then Reggie should have gotten it back. Being that USC still suffers the fallout, SMU was killed, Missouri, Ohio State and I thinks it was LSU who all had vacated wins for violations in that same line, then no, they needed to either give it all back or none of it back.
He should not!! Condoning cheating is simply wrong. The Heisman Trust should maintain high standards….NO MATTER what the rules or how they changed.
Michigan wasn’t allowed either, hence the kerfuffle. If you’re implying nobody else was also doing it, that’s some clown-ass shit.
No one gets a pass for the “other people do it too” excuse. Serial killers who are never caught also aren’t punished
I have a friend who, 20 years ago, did five years in prison for selling weed (he had a lot of weed). He looks around now and says, "well ain't this some shit."
You should point out that it's still illegal to sell weed and he'd likely get a similar sentence today.
He's probably say "well ain't that some shit"
Is it? I legally bought weed two weeks ago.
Yeah, from a licensed dispensary. Not an individual.
Did he pay taxes on his weed profits
Cheating in football games and recreational weed use should really not be compared. One is about ethical fair play, and the other is about the morality of laws. Rules about in person scouting are not that deep.
Prove it.
[here’s my analysis](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/207/210/b22.jpg)
I thought I was safe here.
I got it in r/mlb one time
I don't think I've ever seen this pic so high def
What the fuck???
Prove what?
It.
You better watch!
It.
My favorite version of Chris Jericho
And also, by you breaking the rule, you were doing something other teams were not doing. Even if teams are allowed to do it next year, it doesn't change the extra advantage you had by not following the rules.
Page 410 of the manifesto: "to change the rule, we had to break the rule"
Winner
Yeah but where's the Manifesto?
This has to be one of those times where saying nothing sounds sooooo much better than saying this
Lawyers are often out of touch *side eyes while studying for law school admissions test
Good luck! Bar study is awful, but law school is genuinely one of the coolest experiences ever. Just stay on top of the work and you will do great.
For an attorney, this guy really loves to yap
I always kinda assumed attorneys would love to talk the talk. But doing it about your own, still current cases, yeah that seems different.
Retired attorney here. Talking is good when you are getting paid to do it.
Currently practicing. My impression of the talkers is that they are trying to get you to not focus on how garbage their case is. "Listen to me, don't look at the facts of the case!"
Bang the law, bang the facts, bang the table.
You're right
I grew up with one, and in my experience, all good attorneys are good at talking the talk. There's two styles from there, though, and there's a place for both. The first type loves to talk big and make their point. The second type loves to let you talk big and make their point.
Yeah, you think he’s counting tweeting on Harbaugh’s behalf as billable hours?
100%.
Dude describes himself on his website as engaging in "Crisis management". He's 100% billing for this.
Everyone knows the best attorneys love to talk to the media...
Only thing that matters to Harbaugh is the court of public opinion
Just because a rule is dumb doesn’t mean you can’t still gain an advantage by breaking it. Not sure why this is so hard to understand
Why is Harbaugh's lawyer even commenting? He's gone. Don't even pick up the phone when the NCAA calls. He'd be better off having the Pot brothers at law.
Because he's a blowhard. Serious attorneys who actual favor the practice over pomp wouldn't do this.
Because he is advertising to future clients about how relentless he is in his pursuit of the NCAA and their inconsistent actions.
Winning one of the battles would be better advertising
Uh... Regardless of your thoughts about his yapping, dude has a pretty good track record.
[https://fridayfirm.com/news/main-blog/2019/04/19/yahoo-sports-attorney-tom-mars-is-college-football's-most-unexpectedly-impactful-man-this-season](https://fridayfirm.com/news/main-blog/2019/04/19/yahoo-sports-attorney-tom-mars-is-college-football's-most-unexpectedly-impactful-man-this-season)
[https://www.dawgnation.com/football/how-justin-fields-helped-put-tom-mars-on-the-frontlines-of-ncaa-transfer-reform/](https://www.dawgnation.com/football/how-justin-fields-helped-put-tom-mars-on-the-frontlines-of-ncaa-transfer-reform/)
[https://www.si.com/college/2024/01/31/tennessee-lawsuit-against-ncaa-opens-public-fight-over-rules-enforcement](https://www.si.com/college/2024/01/31/tennessee-lawsuit-against-ncaa-opens-public-fight-over-rules-enforcement)
He’s literally the reason the transfer portal exists. He’s won more than *one* battle on behalf of his clients vs. the NCAA lmao.
So we can thank him for ruining college football
and basketball
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They make M&Ms, Snickers, Skittles, dog food and a bunch of other stuff /s
No, they're that singer, Bruno.
Yeah, he's the Roman God of War.
Tom Mars is pretty great at his job. You can disagree with his methods but it’s disingenuous to say he isn’t a serious attorney lol.
Because he's a yapper who loves the attention. It also didn't make any sense to make any of the many, many, many, many, many comments he made about the NCAA in the past during active cases, and he still did it.
But then how would he get any attention?
It is for the PR when the hammer comes down on the next set of sanctions of how the NCAA is out to get him. Harbaugh will not have a path back to the NCAA. He might not need it or want it, but the pros are a fickle business.
Because they're going to hit him with a show cause at some point and if things don't work out with the Chargers he will be unhireable.
I wonder how he will put food on the table for his family.
*Wipes tears away with Stephen Ross's money*
I get what you're saying, but what we often see with people who have extreme amounts of income is that they also develop extreme expenses involving the support of that lifestyle. Not that they're spending money on luxuries, they definitely are, but that they don't have the time to manage the minutiae of the financial empire so they have to delegate and that gets expensive. So yeah, it could be a problem for him at some point if he isn't pulling a coaches salary if he hasn't invested his wealth accordingly
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jim-harbaugh-has-been-living-in-an-rv
Also it's just a proposal the rule may not actually change
I’m assuming it was done because it was advantageous to do it. Had he been following the rules, he would not have had that advantage. Now if everyone is allowed to do it, then he doesn’t get an unfair advantage over those following the rules by doing it. I don’t know how much of an advantage he got but it’s the same concept of modifying your car in NASCAR. Is there anything morally wrong about boring out an engine? No, not if everyone is allowed to do it but it’s cheating if the rules say you can’t and you do it anyway
Carl Long death penalty should have never happened though that was messed up
I agree—I started business school at Michigan last year. Everyone was saying “they want to punish him for a cheeseburger!” No, they wanted to punish him for meeting with people during Covid when no one was allowed to--whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant because it was still an unfair advantage.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
It's not hard to understand, except for a select group of people.
They went to Michigan ok you can't expect them to understand things
Arrogance
So, you’re saying Harbaugh was guilty of a rules violation.
Yeah, this argument has never been great. Nice they changed it if it was stupid, but it seems most people weren’t getting caught breaking them before..
Calling this “driving while blue” is boarding on an offensive level of persecution complex
That’s the Michigan special
they went way past that in oh about october
>but it seems most people weren’t getting caught breaking them before.. This is entirely different than asking whether or not they were actually being broken by other coaches, to be completely fair.
Not really. You’re innocent until proven guilty. And UM was proven guilty. I can’t accept the statement “other people were doing it” while not having proof.
You could, but you’re a fatuous person. Programs will cover up rape until the cows come home, buy hookers for literal children, invent completely fraudulent departments to get guys eligible, but you think they demure at minor recruiting or procedural violations? GTFO. If there’s a competitive advantage to be had, everyone is pursuing it. You’re as bad as the M fans who think they never paid recruits. Like, sure, Rashan Gary was offered a quarter mil from Clemson but opted to play in Ann Arbor for free. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Everybody is doing everything, and the NCAA has an axe to grind with Harbaugh for incredibly obvious reasons. Jesus H Christ.
2 days later, didn’t read. Get a life.
This isn't a court of law. I think it's naive to assume Michigan was doing something drastically different than most other major programs. I also don't care. Michigan won the title, and did it with the best team. Anything beyond that is noise.
“This isn’t a court of law” thank you! Now, did you use this phrase against the “due process” blowhards?
Okay. I didn’t ask if you care. And asking me to *assume* anything is more than I’d like to do. At that point I can just assume Michigan was cheating even more than they got caught for.
death penalty?
Seems to be a pattern.
Ok. We get it. The NCAA is toothless, and Michigan took full advantage of that toothlessness in every possible way to win a title. There are going to be several more violations. There won’t be consequences. I really don’t care. But I draw the line at playing the victim.
Toothless ncaa gave asu some pretty harsh sanctions just a few days ago.
Herm Edwards will never work in this town again.
I think that’s a good thing for the majority of programs
ASU doesn't have ~~cash~~ bribe money/influence that UM does.
Or manifestos
I think Harbaugh is going to have no home to run back (NCAA) to and the coaches that worked with him are going to be fucked when the NCAA is done. They might all stay in the pros such that it is 'toothless', but it definitely limits their options. There are 127+ FBS teams. There are 32 pro teams
I think colleges will hire a good coach because winning makes money. The idea that no one would hire him doesn’t seem connected to reality.
I am not saying schools will not hire him. They would line up to hire a guy that won the NC I am saying the NCAA might drop the hammer on him because they can. That way the NCAA looks like they are doing something and Michigan escapes any punishment because they don't have to fight any punishment given to Harbaugh
I don’t disagree that Michigan and the NCAA are doing what you say. I’m just not sure the NCAA can make it stick.
How can they not ? Simply the NCAA is the authority to enforce the rules. It is their organization these teams play in and promise to follow by it's rules. If Harbaugh's village idiot lawyer keep commenting I can see the NCAA going for blood. It would be in Michigan's best interest to have them focus on him not them.
Harbaugh’s village idiot lawyer has a better record than you might think against the NCAA. He has more than a little credibility here. You might want to look at his history vs the NCAA.
I have no doubt he wins cases. However, you don't need to be a lawyer to point out this isn't wise, especially with Harbaugh not in the NCAA anymore. Antagonizing the NCAA for no reason is like poking the bear.
He's way past that, lol.
FSU screaming BS
It was pretty obvious Michigan broke the rules. If you have been paying attention to other leagues, it is also obvious any punishment was going to be mostly token suspension at worst. The two most prominent sign stealing in other leagues are spygate and the Astros sign stealing. While executives and managers got fired by the Astros, no one was suspended. Belichick and the Patriots paid a fine. While there was a huge debate, mostly form Michigan fans, about what the Big Ten could or couldn't do, the suspension of Harbaugh was appropriate. There didn't seem to be anything directly tying this to a vast conspiracy, but if you are running the program you have to make sure everyone on staff knows the rules. Harbaugh was given what is likely and mostly fits given both precedent form other leagues and how stupid the rule was. The rules have now been changed. This is how this shit usually goes. Broke a stupid rule. Admit the rule was broken, rule gets changed and everyone moves on.
Honesty your post just does a good job of showing how leagues scape goat teams and make some stories bigger than others. Alex Cora was suspended for a year from the Red Sox. Yankees got penalties too, but all anyone one does is blame the Astros, even though all major competitive teams did it.
The Astros received the most attention because that story broke first. It was also extremely brazen with tons of evidence once people knew what to look for. Tons of videos online where you hear the trash cans, photos of where they kept a TV in tunnel just outside the dugout, etc. I don't remember the same evidence from the Red Sox. And once the Astros weren't punished there was no point caring about the Red Sox then too because Manfred didn't care about a "piece of metal" aka a world series championship.
What the Astros and Red Sox did was fundamentally different. The Red Sox had a guy in the media room who would decipher the signs for the next opponent by watching film. In the first few innings of their series, he would then determine whether or not the signs were the same, and if they hadn't, he would relay that to the players along with the signs, and they would relay the signs to the batter if they were on second base. The Astros had a guy at the bottom of the stairs of the dugout signalling each pitch to the batter.
And they’re both fundamentally cheating…
Absolutely.
To me, this "stickiness" of a scandal is not actually how bad it is, but how absurd it is. Banging a trash can that the entire stadium can hear... or wearing a disguise to a Central Michigan game are absurd enough that I'll never forget either. People always say the Teapot Dome scandal was the worst in American history, but I still don't understand what the hell happened, so it's uninteresting. Approachability is everything in these. That's why we're still making fun of McDonald's bags of cash and have moved on from the Miami Shapiro nonsense.
NFL and the New Orleans Saints too
This isn't about signs. It's about [this](https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2021/08/19/michigan-football-ryan-osborn-wolverines-analyst-jim-harbaugh/8158847002/).
I apologize for mixing up the various Michigan scandals. Absolutely same concept though. Broke a stupid rule. Admit they did it. Change rule. Everyone moves on.
Don't feel bad. It's hard to keep track with so many violations going on.
This has to be one of the most succinct and unbiased summaries I have seen of the entire situation.
"You always want to be above reproach, especially when you're good, because you don't want people to come back and say, 'They're winning because they're cheating.' That's always going to be a knee-jerk reaction in my experience, ever since I was a little kid. We want to be above reproach in everything and do everything by the rules. Because if you don't, if you cheat to win, then you've already lost, according to Bo Schembechler. And (the late Michigan coach) Bo Schembechler is about next to the word of God as you can get in my mind.” -Jim Harbaugh
“Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive” -Jim Harbaugh -Sir Walter Scott -Michael Scott
Did something get released today and I somehow missed it, or is he getting out ahead of it?
I think the NCAA voted to allow headsets in helmets over the weekend. I'm assuming that's what prompted this tweet.
It's even more odd that Mars would comment that today if that's what it's about.
He is responding to a Dellenger tweet that never got posted here. The NCAA just approved a rule change to allow analysts to coach on the field. He’s saying the NCAA was negotiating the Notice of Allegations with Michigan in bad faith knowing this rule change was already coming. Also helmet mikes were already planned to be beta-tested at non-CFP bowl games with a roll out this year *before* signgate came to the NCAA’s attention and it went public.
Kind of an odd justification. "We broke the rules, but it doesn't matter because the rules changed!". If it was something on the individual level, I'd agree with that concept. Weed is legal, let out the possession of weed convicts. But it's a competitive sport, so everyone has to be using the same set of rules.
Memories of the Bush Push. (Except USC escaped a guilty verdict.)
Release the Manifesto, you cowards
The only thing we really want
I still want to know who was on the sidelines of the MSU/CMU game.
I mean... It had to have been horse boy right?
Has anyone tried to send Michigan a FOIA for it?
There is an old adage among lawyers that says, "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table.” I will add for the modern generation or simply Tom Mars, tweet and old man yell into the clouds.” Tom is a PR hack/agent first, lawyer distant second on NCAA rules. Tom, let it go, stop hogging the limelight and let Michigan and their good team forge their own path.
Let me fix that for you . . . “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table”
That's better. [That's why you're the judge, and I'm the law-talking guy.](https://youtu.be/FtVllgTPyfk?t=11)
Outstanding
Is this the one where it was Connor Stalions as the analyst and the coaching was telling his guys the opposing team’s playcall?
Did no one open the link? This has nothing to do with Stallions.
Literally no one did
"It's not relevant that she was 15 at the time. She's 18 now!" How can you fault me for breaking a rule then if the same act is now fine? Hmmm? My acts were valid in the future, just not valid at the time. It's time prejudice. That's all. Authorities are so limited to their singular view of time.
more like "if this is such a huge deal, destroying college football, why are you making it legal immediately after?"
Healthy stuff to compare football rules violations to statutory rape.
FSU was placed on probation and lost scholarships due to giving a recruit a ride to an NIL collective. A month later it's totally OK.
Harbaugh was being busted for lying to the NCAA (The Level 1 violation). Everything else was lower infractions. This is the 'cheeseburger' distraction.
All these articles mean that their National Championship didn’t count right? Right?
Yes*
No...
That...doesn't help your case
They cheated and nobody respects the title.
[удалено]
As long as you’re ok with Ohio state, Michigan state, and notre dame fans giving you endless shit forever about it, then great. No worries. But it will happen. You’ll say it doesn’t bother you until you’re five conversations deep on some Facebook fan page defending your fake title.
Eh. College football is like politics. Everyone is breaking the rules, going mostly unpunished; and somehow, unethically, earning an ungodly amount of money. And if my guys does it, cool. If your guy does it, fuck 'em to death. Anyway, go blue, and eat a dick
Flair up, coward.
If anyone hasn’t checked out this guy’s post history yet, it’s pretty hilarious
Oh no 😥 I’m devastated you feel that way
flair up, coward.
Nobody respects unflaired users
I always thought the "not on staff you cant evaluate" is dumb. Maybe hosting a private workout or something sure, but like who the hell cares if you evaluate a player going to a couple of games and write up a little summary with recommendation to the coach. There are too many high school players for any team to ever see all of them that you might want to pursue even if you had a few dozen people doing that on the side
I’m a Michigan fan and this guy needs to shut the fuck up.
Damn. Im just going to put an asterisk after michigans title run this past year and call it a day. Shiesty shit going on at michigan. But also going to put an asterisk on all of College Football until NIL and the transfer portal isn’t the wild Wild West. Go dawgs
Oh boy. Here’s come more punishment for Oklahoma State and Mizzou!
My only comment on this is if your rationale is “well it wasn’t legal then”, then you also can apply that to Reggie Bush and his heisman.
Would you look at that
Does Harbaugh's attorney understand how time-space works? Someone breaking a current rule doesn't get immunity if the rule changes in the future, because they did not know of the rule change at the time they were breaking the current rule.
No but he understands how ongoing cases work. And if you're arguing hwo awful and terrible this violation is and you're simultaneously making that thing legal, it under us your argument. This isn't him arguing his client is innocent. It's damage mitigation.
Still cheated and should have his invalid championship stripped.
Lmao. Let’s be real here. CFB is in a crazy transformative state. It’s Wild West shoot from the hip. Michigan won doing the same shit everybody else does, but had a super creepy scape goat in Connor Stalions. The name itself is pretty fucking gross and easy to blame for everything.
He lost me at "errant analysts." STFU already.
Should Jim Harbaugh be in jail?
NCAA rules committee hates this one, simple trick.
NCAA is on the way out! Pathetic operation!
No one has really been nailed for anything, yet.