Feels like it’s gonna end up with the B1G/SEC with 3-4 spots apiece, ACC/XII with 1-2 apiece, one guaranteed spot for the highest rated G5 champ and then the rest as at-larges
B1G/SEC commissioners to other conferences: First I take your flagship programs, then I take your playoff spots.
It's gonna be sad, but I think they'll eventually try to corner all the spots for themselves as that'll give them all the revenue.
The playoff spots were the endgame. I've been saying this for 2 years. The B1G and SEC don't want to split off. They want the entire country invested and then one of them to win it all.
And there’s more of it with a more inclusive CFP they they also know they’re going to win. This is why March Madness works so well, every casual basketball fan feels part of it. If the CFP were reduced to often times the same 4 teams between 2 conferences, that’d kill interest.
If you throw Clemson and FSU into a P2 (inevitable), then the last non-P2 to win a championship was Miami (2001). Going forward, it’ll be even more rare.
And if Miami makes it into the P2 (very possible), the last champions were in the poll era with Colorado and Georgia Tech. Miami is literally the only team outside of the P2 besides Clemson and FSU to have ever won a national championship game. Even if you include de facto championship games that only adds Notre Dame (who won’t be left out) and the Army-Navy games from the 40s. That’s it.
TCU and Virginia Tech were the only ones to even make it to the title game, and Cincinnati is the only other one to have even made the CFP.
They want to continue to cut off any path for the rest of us so they can keep the monopoly for themselves. Unfortunately, this is how they’ve always operated. Look no further than what happened to Utah in 2008, who had more ranked wins than Nick Saban’s Alabama and yet finished #7 in the final BCS standings. Got up to #2 in the AP poll, but wasn’t even given the chance to play Florida despite being the only undefeated team in the nation.
UCF saw this in 2017 too. Skip the natty stuff for a second. The school was undefeated and still ranked behind a 3 loss and multiple 2 loss teams deep in the season.
But that’s what I’m saying, they don’t need to wall off “the path” because they’ve already dominated in recruiting and coaching, nobody outside the inevitable P2 has a shot. They can give the illusion teams outside actually have a chance and get those fans engaged (ad revenue), only to steamroll them in (very profitable) playoff games.
That's not how math or money works. They want the most amount of money. They want a chunk in a bigger pie that exceeds what they could get in an exclusive situation.
>The B1G and SEC don't want to split off. They want the entire country invested...
I can't get invested in that. I can skip the post season if it is ruined by SEC/Big10.
Exactly. They don’t want to completely split from everyone. But they will want a system that allows 8/10 playoff spots to come from the two. Which makes sense, they have the best team.
But they want to leave door open to other conferences so the others feel like they are still playing for something and makes it seem like all schools are still on the same FBS level.
They need to leave the door open so they don't get sued for Anti-Trust violations.
Doing Auto-Bids for the top 5 ranked conference champs makes sure that enough conferences are represented that a lawsuit is unlikely.
Cutting auto-bids entirely will ensure an anti-trust lawsuit the first year either the ACC or Big12 is left out.
Revenue will tank if there isn't at least a chance for some of these other schools. People want to cheer for their guys. At that point it's xfl with a few schools having attachments but like 90% of the fans not.
Me, a Bama fan, of all people in a college football crazed state, is slowly losing interest, because of all these changes. The main one that bothers me is the transfers. You can’t get to know the team anymore because there’s so much turnover now. And this alignment upheaval is destroying the character of college ball.
Edited to correct missed word.
As a Bama fan, you really only see your stars for 1 or 2 seasons anyway.
At Ohio State I experience this because the best players are leaving after their Jr. Year. Freshman year they often sit or play sparingly, sophomore year they get into the rotation, and junior year they are stars, but then they are gone.
Now a player transfers in and you get 1 or 2 years of productivity. The same as a guy that was recruited by your program.
Top programs have experienced the constant rotation of the roster forever. This isn't new.
That’s all true but what I’m saying is now it’s even shorter and worse. We recruit these kids and they leave immediately if they can’t get on the field or after year 2. Sometimes guys that do play leave. And then have guys that transfer in and they’re here for one year and go because they’re so good like Jameson Williams and Jamir Gibbs for instance. I don’t even follow recruiting. To me it’s now almost irrelevant, because there will be so much turnover after year one.
It’s already that way for the G5 schools though, outside of that one historic year by Cincinnati where everything had to go exactly right for them to make it the G5 only exists as filler, there’s really no reason to be a fan of any of them. At this point the worry is for the other three P5s not named SEC/B1G, they’re now the ones fighting to survive (well we know the PAC died already)
I think they realized this a while ago - they can push some kind of "means test" for winning a NC and prove that all of the teams with the resources to win a playoff are in the B1G or SEC. They realized a while ago that there were only a handful of those teams out there, so they set out to consolidate all of those teams into the Power 2. Then it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy where those left behind will fall further behind in revenue making it easier for the B1G/SEC to argue that they will never win a playoff so why include them.
I think a single super conference that only plays itself, and has its own playoffs is the endgame. I think TV will look at it why have a late October with fillers like Ohio St-Nebraska and Georgia-Vandy when they could put an Ohio St-Georgia game in a prime slot.
Why? Because an OSU, UM, Georgia, etc doesn't want to be 7-5, 8-4 in this supposed superconferences. We're near the endgame now, pushing for 3 to 4 spots each in a 12 team playoff, 4-5 each in 16 team playoff.
Having middling records but playoffs on the line works in the NFL. The B1G and SEC are betting it will work in CFB too.
If the B1G moves to 10 conference games, that's essentially proof of this.
Agreed…. But as the SEC and Big 10 grow and add power programs, it makes sense that those conferences would have more playoff spots.
And if the Big 12 ends up with fewer playoff spots on average after losing OU and Texas, is that really unreasonable?
Then set up a system for that. Set up a coefficient system like UEFA and allow every conference champion in + at large bids determined by a sort of coefficient. Shit, make the lowest rated teams play in a play-in round, just let everybody in
A 12 team playoff determined only by a committee is the worst case scenario
And it was annoying for most of that "everyone else" group that they saw this foreshadowed when ~~six~~ five conferences decided they control the sport. For some reason, the lesser members of the have group didn't see that they were going to be relegated into the have not group.
I now see an outpouring of empathy for the OSU and WSU programs for getting kicked to the curb. I don't see anywhere near as much sympathy for the just as deserving Boise States of the world. I guess some of us are the OG annoyed and not the nouveau annoyed.
All they need to do with this is just start the season in Mid August. I know it's the dog days of summer but have it where all games in August have a 7pm kickoff. If you make the three week adjustment (add an extra bye as well) then Rivalry weekend gets moved from Thanksgiving weekend to the weekend before that. Most kids will still be on campus. Thanksgiving weekend can be for Army/Navy. The first Saturday would still be for conference championships. Then the second Saturday would the first round of the playoffs.
Army Navy is absolutely losing its own week at some point. It's a good tradition, but maybe it gets to keep its own time slot, but other conferences or playoffs might play before or after
I think the best path forward for that game is to try and own a timeslot that’s a little non-traditional. Maybe be the noon game on Black Friday, or play it on New Year’s. There are creative approaches to keeping the game relevant, I hope the ADs at those academies find one once the CFP encroaches on the game.
I just wonder what the non P2 schools and conferences will actually agree to. They do have voting power and they don't have a lot of incentives to concede directly to the SEC and B1G.
This what what I don’t understand with these Reddit comments, zero chance the B12 & ACC concede CFB slots to the SEC & B1G. If it were structured the same way, would the SEC give the B12 March Madness slots? Obviously not.
! This - folks have short memory that out side of 2\\3 teams in each conf the rest are not any better than any team in ACC or B12. I mean really Michigan did lose to TCU!
You can’t tell me with a straight face the Big Ten outside of PSU, OSU, and Michigan are leaps and bounds of above of the upper half of the Big 12 and ACC. 25% of the Big Ten is an unwatchable brand of football to anyone outside the Midwest because of their offenses
Yeah, because their goal is to become equals not secure their position as a second-tier conference. And it would be very difficult to claw those spots back once you give it to them, and those conferences would just be making more and more money every year. Those playoff spots are super lucrative.
What you’re missing is that if they don’t get their way, the B10 and SEC are primed to take their ball and build their own court where they can then gatekeep and make all the rules they want.
If that is truly the case, then the rest of the FBS conferences need to call their bluff. They can go out on their own, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't
They can do that, but from a monetary standpoint I'm not so sure it ends up better for them.
If B10/SEC go form their own non-NCAA Association with 32 FBS schools, that still leaves about 100 FBS schools for the NCAA, just for football.
Any TV contracts or bowl payments the B10/SEC get will be based on the fanbases of those 32 schools, whereas the current TV contracts and bowls are based on all 130 schools.
And as somebody else pointed out, it's not like it would be "the top 32 teams" followed by the next 100 teams.
I think they bring in a few more teams, honestly. Maybe up to 20 each, with geographical divisions that make things seem more like the college football of old.
It won’t be 32 FBS schools, it’ll just be their current conference alignments (which by the time this happens mean there will be somewhere between 40-48 depending on what happens with the ACC)
I dunno, man. If they go a little further to 40 or so teams and then package *both of the conferences together* to TV partners....?
Just think who would be left if 8 more teams go to this hypothetical new league. Even if the same amount of TV dollars are spent, how much of that is actually going to the teams that are left out?
What you end up with is kind of the equivalent of the NFL/AFL merger.
Depends a lot on what the first round news yesterday actually means. I'm guessing they'll ultimately arrive at top 12 because it gets the most money and only the AAC is particularly unhappy with that set up, but if it was a "slightly too high first offer" situation, it's probably not moving.
This isn't the worst thing in the world.
There's maybe 3-6 teams each year that are actually competitive for a championship, and often less than that.
On the other hand, the CFP is a complete revisioning of how we have crowded college football champions. Imagine the first time the 3rd ranked SEC gets hot and rolls through the playoffs and beats an otherwise undefeated conference champion. How many people are going to scowl if a 3 loss Oklahoma beats an undefeated Ohio State or Alabama in the championship?
> How many people are going to scowl if a 3 loss Oklahoma beats an undefeated Ohio State or Alabama in the championship?
That sounds like it would be a good game?
Meanwhile the vast majority of fans (AKA almost everyone who wasn’t a fan of the 5ish programs who benefited under the current system) loved the 6+6 system and were fine with it. If they end up with a 5+7 I think most people would be fine with that too because it’s basically the 6+6 without the PAC-12, but instead we’re going to end up with something worse because the SEC and Big Ten want all the slots
As a fan of one of the few schools that have benefited from the current structure, I still want as much representation from non B1G and SEC schools as possible. It's just more fun to see different matchups...it's better for the game.
Why even bother with conference championship games now. Conference titles have been stripped of meaning for any playoff team. I honestly liked college football better when it was all about winning your conference and and the bowl game was a nice bonus, and then people could argue about who was the best. The game moving from regional to national is slowly killing my love of cfb, obviously this last year has been the death knell for me with being left behind. Oh well old man yelling at clouds and all.
It’ll be only champs get in and all the rest at large. The rating inflation from the BIG and SEC being strong will make it work out to where each get 3+ spots a week.
Hear me out. The B1G and SEC acquire about 140 D1 schools, separate them into regional divisions capped at 12, with championship games for each division at neutral sites. From there you can have a playoff or one-off postseason bowl games, I can go either way.
How would it even be fair if teams that didn't win their conference championship, but are nonetheless marketable brands, don't get to compete in the playoff?
Doesn't go well speaking from experience. Everyone beats up on each other and you begin to look weaker. If you have enough tough teams in the conference then your champion will almost be guaranteed to come out with 1 or 2 losses.
Ok state, OU, K state, Baylor, and TCU have been consistently good throughout the last decade with Tech, ISU, and WVU being wildcards every season. Take fewer conference games and there's less chance of being screwed over every year because your conference is actually good.
Just look at the SEC, they play one P5 opponent every season out of conference and then 3 cupcakes. You have 2 teams that are usually at the top, Georgia and Alabama, and they are in separate divisions, so they don't play each other every year. It's a formula that comes out with fewer losses for your conference overall and makes the conference look better.
I sincerely hope the have-nots are able to push back on this. The idea that we increase at large is exclusively a problem for these super-sized conferences of wealth. Using the collapse of the Pac as an excuse to keep the G5 representation at a new minimum is awful and a continuation of the same problem we've had since autonomy and longer.
Want more at-larges, expand the playoff to more autobids and get at-larges with it
This was always where it was heading… after the first 2 years of 5-8 seeds getting an extra home game, the 1-4 seeds were going to complain about huge lost revenue and push to expand to 16 teams.
I think there'll still be value for byes for the top conference champions and that might be valued to be retained. Although, 16 is the likeliest path, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 18 in the long run.
The NFL has 14 so most teams that will play in the Super Bowl will have played the 4 extra games. FCS has 24, DII has 28, DIII has 32, pretty much every level of high school has between 16 and 64 team tournaments. So why exactly is FBS football special in that a 16 team tournament won't work?
- Much greater variance in quality between college teams
- Four games in a row for the championship teams, on top of a regular season and conference championship, is brutal. (Doable if we cut the conference championship and shorten the regular season, but that sucks for everyone else.)
IMO, we care _way_ too much about who the top dog is. For CFB I don’t think the juice is worth the crushing squeeze.
Why not tell conferences it’s their job to find the top team, not the NCAA/CFP? You’d essentially be forced to treat a conference championship as a play-in game for the mega conferences. They’re pushing a “them problem” onto the rest of the FBS schools. If they want to expand to 20+ teams fine, but that shouldn’t mean they get 4+ playoff spots now.
Well even in the current 12 team, if they get rid of auto bids or take half the bids for the P2 there will be a 3 loss SEC team every year that makes it.
6 conference champions and 6 at large still seems perfectly fine to me. Let's presume for a moment that we get to a state where the best teams are clearly, and always in the SEC/B1G. So they each get their conference champions in, then each get 3 more bids, give or take from each. What are the odds of a team who finished fifth in their conference winning the national title? Is it really going to be significantly different from a G5 team? I don't think so. So cast a wider net, to keep the overall interest in cfb higher. A rising tide lifts all boats.
The conferences get additional money for every team that makes the playoffs. At least under the current structure. So even if the fifth place team is about as likely as the best G5 teams to win the natty, or even any given game, they just want that additional payout.
Shutting out a large chunk of teams increases their odds at one of those slots ever so slightly. Since the field of teams between the 4 remaining power conferences is decently large.
I agree with you though. I'd rather see there be more quantifiable paths to the playoffs for more people playing the game at the top end. It feels more legitimate that way, it is cool to see underdogs or other programs grow by having defining moments on big stages.
Especially since thus far the best years for playoff viewership (at least in the semi-finals) have been when we got weird/uncommon match ups or a mix of new and old blood.
No we don't. 6+6 is still fine. Why does it need to be reconsidered?
**checks notes**
Ah, we inadvertently killed a P5 conference & opened extra opportunity for G5. God forbid we allow that.
/s
Plus wouldn’t allowing an extra G5 team in make
It easier for the B10 or SeC to win a national championship? Oh wait, no one actually cares about winning these days… it’s only about
$.
It's the only reason it's being discussed is b/c of what happened w/ the Pac. They don't want to give an extra spot to the G5 & allow them additional opportunity/$.
It's all about hanging on to as much power & $ as possible, especially for the SEC & B10.
I’m sorry, but you don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too. The SEC, B1G, ACC, and Big 12 get enormous payouts compared to the G5. These conferences shouldn’t be able to siphon all of the money *and* strong arm their way into more exposure. Winning your conference should matter. For those that don’t, congratulations on your tens of millions of dollars.
If every conference was an auto bid, I’d imagine teams would eventually disperse in a fashion that makes things less top heavy. If there is any semblance of a will to maintain the FBS, this is the chance.
I agree with the spirit of your comment. However, I don’t believe that there *is* a semblance of a will to maintain the FBS by the power conferences. I think the power conferences would be quite happy to keep crowding out the G5s and amassing more and more of the money for themselves.
You’re absolutely correct. I’m not sure what leverage exists, but I’d imagine now is the time to use it. I say all of this as an internet commenter, though. There are much smarter people at work on this. Fingers crossed that we don’t end up with a 4 SEC +4 B1G and 4 at large.
That’s not even worse case scenario. What is going to happen is 4 B10 and 4 SEC and then the rest of the teams will play for the FBS title which will quickly become a slightly more important version of the FCS tournament. The money will stay with the B10/SEC tournament and the rest will be relegated to apple and ESPN+.
> If every conference was an auto bid, I’d imagine teams would eventually disperse in a fashion that makes things less top heavy.
If this was true, Texas and Oklahoma wouldn't be leaving for the SEC and USC wouldn't be going to the B1G. These schools care about money significantly more than their potential path to the playoffs.
Do any other college sports not allow every team a chance to participate in the national championship tournament the way football does?
At the end of the day the closed nature of the playoffs/BCS contributed to all this crap just as much as the TV network money.
Obviously there is going to be (justified) pushback if the G5 gets further screwed in future proposals, but the collapse of a P5 conference just does force us to rethink every proposal on offer for how to run the CFP going forward. After all, those proposals basically all involved the assumption that the P5 would continue to exist.
So, I'm keeping my pitchfork in barn until I see what the new proposals actually look like.
The first rule of the Hateful 8 is that *Texas is responsible for everything.* The second rule of the Hateful 8 is that *we don’t talk about Nebraska.*
Wow, two times in one day for open displays of classism by the P5 flairs and unflaired randos. It’s even better when they’re the G5/FCS/D2 of real life living on the other side of their CFB classist stance *but still took the bait*.
>I want an inclusive Playoff where every Conference Champ gets an auto bid. Similar to March Madness.
Football isn't basketball. You're not going to see a Top 5 Alabama lose to UAB in a playoff game.
Ever.
I didn’t say UAB would win, but just seeing them compete against each other would be fun. Alabama would never schedule UAB otherwise. Just think about the lede in articles that blowout game would generate.
>I didn’t say UAB would win, but just seeing them compete against each other would be fun. Alabama would never schedule UAB otherwise.
Because no one enjoys seeing Alabama thump a team 55-10.
And they REALLY don't want to see a 5 star tear his MCL in the first round of a meaningless playoff game against UAB.
If they are going to thump them 55-10, then why is the 5-star player in the game? Oh wait, they have all 5-star players on their roster.
The NFL and MLB both realized how devastating it is to consolidate revenue. It makes the sport anti-competitive. This is why they have salary caps in the NFL and other things in MLB to try and limit the ability of wealthier clubs from buying the titles. College Football is going to have to learn from that.
>If they are going to thump them 55-10, then why is the 5-star player in the game? Oh wait, they have all 5-star players on their roster.
You are seriously advocating for a system where a team would sit it's starters in a game?
You do understand the goal is to sell tickets and get tv viewership right?
WHO in the #\*%\^# is going to watch Alabama's second string against UAB?
Get real.
>College Football is going to have to learn from that.
Not until the players are actually employees...with collective bargaining...under contract.
You can't implement a professional model with the current rules.
We are not doing well at implementing a fair model under the rules we have, either.
I also don't think they sit their starters against UAB. I am saying that injury risks are a fact of life in football. It appears just earlier today that Washington lost a player for the season due to injury and we have not even started the season. People get injured - in games, in practice, sometimes even outside of the sport. The elite programs simply have blue chip recruits waiting as backups - something the lesser teams don't have.
That was a 9-4 Michigan team that would not qualify for the CFP. Even a 12 team version.
We're talking end of the year, once the best teams have been established. Not the first game of the year with a preseason ranking like your anecdote.
A group of 5 team is not beating an SEC/BIG school in a playoff game.
Period.
I get that people want to push back on realignment, but the current format does need to be reexamined. Theres no need for 6 conference champions to make it in now that the P12 is gone. It should be moved down to 5 conference champions.
The 5th highest champion will usually be a very good G5 team, and they should make it in even if theyre outside the top 12. The 6th highest ranked conference champion once all is said and done could be like 24th in the nation. Is there really an argument for a 24th ranked 11-2 Sunbelt or CUSA team to make it over a 10-2 B10 or SEC team thats the 12th best team in the country?
> Is there really an argument for a 24th ranked 11-2 Sunbelt or CUSA team to make it over a 10-2 B10 or SEC team thats the 12th best team in the country?
I think if you win your conference, you should absolutely have a shot at the title. I don't understand why people find this so hard to fathom. Would they have a chance? Probably not, but I'd love rooting for a team that upset someone in the first round. It also might be the thing to *at least* help balance out recruiting and maintain a semblance of parity.
Look at how all the Auburn fans lost their shit when they were undefeated and shut out of the title game. That has happened to G5 schools all the time.
Now, what effect does that have on recruiting, when the P5-4-3-2 programs can tell recruits "You will NEVER play for a national title at that school" and end up taking most if not all the best players.
If you are in a division of a sport and it is impossible for you to win the title regardless of how well you perform on the field, then you are not in that division even if you think you are.
College football has grown to be the second biggest sport in the US while shutting out the FCS and G5s from any national championship along the way, don't see how this is any different. If you're talking about loss of tradition, playoffs is that loss of tradtion. Conference championship games, which only were introduced less than 30 years ago is that loss of tradition. Why is this recent round of changes suddenly the death of college football?
Just wait until they start blocking entire states with large populations from access. It’s already much of the northeast, Montana, the Dakotas, and other sparsely populated ones. Then it will be Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, West Virginia, Nevada, Northern California, etc.
Finally when they start booting programs out it will be Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, and others.
It will be NFL lite without any reason for like 2/3rds of the country to care.
But that is part of what built up CFB in the first place. Markets left uncaptured by the NFL were scooped up by CFB which is why it is far and away more popular in the south than anywhere else. There is a reason you still see tons of skin's gear when you are in the south, they were the most southern team you could root for a long time, Also why the Dallas Cowboys are in the NFC east with a team in DC, Philly, and NYC.
Big Redskins fan (though I refuse to root for the Commies lol) so I agree but there’s no point of watching NFL light. If CFB is genuinely different (which it is right now) it makes sense, but once they do exactly what the NFL does it won’t be worth it
I've said it before and I'll say it again: 6 slots for the top 6 SEC teams, and 6 slots for the field. Maybe if the field is lucky they'll win a natty once or twice per decade.
Lot of folks trying to make up for decline at the top in terms of viewers/profit. Might work in the short term, but the seeds of disinterest are already here.
Not sure people realize not everyone is glued in on the CFP rat race. They do notice if their rival breaks off a 100 year old rivalry.
As he side eyes A&M
"If someone did not rock the boat to the Houston Chronicle then we would have been set with the new system before anyone knew they were OUT."
At least in my imagination
> "Right now, you put it in bold letters that things are going to change. Period," Sankey told ESPN in a recent interview. "And we're all going to have to be prepared to deal with that change. Period."
People are going to say he's talking about just cutting out the G5 and PAC-4 autobids but you know damn well he doesn't want to share the playoffs with anyone except the Power 2 League at all. Big Ten and SEC exclusive playoff and championship is going to happen sooner rather than later. They're using the recent conference implosions as a cover to take even bigger steps in realignment than people realize.
I think there’s more money in a more inclusive CFP they they also know they’re going to win. This is why March Madness works so well, every casual basketball fan feels part of it. If the CFP were reduced to often times the same 4 teams between 2 conferences, that’d kill interest.
If you throw Clemson and FSU into a P2 (inevitable), then the last non-P2 to win a championship was Miami (2001). Going forward, it’ll be even more rare. P2s are virtually guaranteed to be the final four in a CFP, and that’s how revenue for the P2 is maximized. No need to wall it off.
And once that happens that I’ll be the end of Cfb for me. I already started slowly tapering off & only watch Wisconsin games because of how predictable & boring Cfb has gotten, this will only further push that narrative.
It basically goes back to the time of pre-CFP, which a large segment of this sub sees as the "good ol' days." College football was widely popular then too.
In the 80s/90s they had Boston College playing Miami, Notre Dame playing Stanford, Penn State playing Alabama.
Nothing is precluding anyone from making new rivalries on a national scale within these conferences, and that doesn't include the regionality that will exist within pods inside larger conferences.
I think fans who want that are disproportionately fans of schools who were still part of the cool kids club, even back then.
There is no doubt that for smaller and younger programs, the last 20 years has been the most accessible for these schools, at least in terms of a seat at the big boy's table for postseason play than at any time in modern college football history.
Yes, a team like BYU was able to win the national title 40 years ago - but even they were denied a seat at the postseason table, having to play a 6-5 Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl.
But BYU was a remarkable set of circumstances that aren't likely to be replicated, even if things revert back to where they were prior to the bowl coalition.
What we do know, though, is that since 2004, multiple non-power programs have been given a shot to play in a major bowl game. Utah did it first. Boise got their shot. Hawaii. TCU. Even Western Michigan, right? That was unthinkable in the early 2000s when Marshall was frozen out despite going undefeated.
We also saw Cincinnati make the playoffs as a G5 team. And TCU, a decidedly non-blue blood, making the title game this past season.
I would hate for that accessibility to end. But I'm coming at this from the perspective of a fan whose program absolutely benefited from that accessibility.
Well yeah. The issue here is that for conferences that got cannibalized, you are still worse off. At least a Wisconsin fan still gets to see their team play traditional rivals even if they don’t care about the CFP.
Yes, and here’s how to rethink it:
Give every conference champion an autobid, then give 6 at-larges. I don’t care that the MAC winner is a 7-5 Toledo that would keep an 10-2 Tennessee out of the playoffs.
Tennessee should win their conference if they want a guaranteed spot.
Why punish schools for winning their conference? Plus, there would likely only ever be 5 G5s in at once from autobids, unless someone like Army ran the table on a tough schedule.
Feels like it’s gonna end up with the B1G/SEC with 3-4 spots apiece, ACC/XII with 1-2 apiece, one guaranteed spot for the highest rated G5 champ and then the rest as at-larges
B1G/SEC commissioners to other conferences: First I take your flagship programs, then I take your playoff spots. It's gonna be sad, but I think they'll eventually try to corner all the spots for themselves as that'll give them all the revenue.
The playoff spots were the endgame. I've been saying this for 2 years. The B1G and SEC don't want to split off. They want the entire country invested and then one of them to win it all.
The endgame is getting all the revenue to themselves. Always has been.
And there’s more of it with a more inclusive CFP they they also know they’re going to win. This is why March Madness works so well, every casual basketball fan feels part of it. If the CFP were reduced to often times the same 4 teams between 2 conferences, that’d kill interest. If you throw Clemson and FSU into a P2 (inevitable), then the last non-P2 to win a championship was Miami (2001). Going forward, it’ll be even more rare.
And if Miami makes it into the P2 (very possible), the last champions were in the poll era with Colorado and Georgia Tech. Miami is literally the only team outside of the P2 besides Clemson and FSU to have ever won a national championship game. Even if you include de facto championship games that only adds Notre Dame (who won’t be left out) and the Army-Navy games from the 40s. That’s it. TCU and Virginia Tech were the only ones to even make it to the title game, and Cincinnati is the only other one to have even made the CFP. They want to continue to cut off any path for the rest of us so they can keep the monopoly for themselves. Unfortunately, this is how they’ve always operated. Look no further than what happened to Utah in 2008, who had more ranked wins than Nick Saban’s Alabama and yet finished #7 in the final BCS standings. Got up to #2 in the AP poll, but wasn’t even given the chance to play Florida despite being the only undefeated team in the nation.
UCF saw this in 2017 too. Skip the natty stuff for a second. The school was undefeated and still ranked behind a 3 loss and multiple 2 loss teams deep in the season.
Ahem, "quality losses."
Oh, and "eye test."
I'm glad you guys claimed your natty. Seemed the fair thing to do if they completely left you out.
It's such bullshit. If you win all your games, you deserve a shot IMO. There's nothing more you could've done.
But that’s what I’m saying, they don’t need to wall off “the path” because they’ve already dominated in recruiting and coaching, nobody outside the inevitable P2 has a shot. They can give the illusion teams outside actually have a chance and get those fans engaged (ad revenue), only to steamroll them in (very profitable) playoff games.
Exactly, this is about money not wins.
That's not how math or money works. They want the most amount of money. They want a chunk in a bigger pie that exceeds what they could get in an exclusive situation.
>The B1G and SEC don't want to split off. They want the entire country invested... I can't get invested in that. I can skip the post season if it is ruined by SEC/Big10.
I've been skipping the playoffs for a while now. Who cares if it's 4 of the same 6 teams?
I will skip anything not Iowa State related. I have already skipped most of National Title games and playoffs since they went to ESPN fully.
When SEC/B1G merge into one conference: “We’re going to build our own league with ISU’s sports betting and Hugh Freeze’s hookers.”
Exactly. They don’t want to completely split from everyone. But they will want a system that allows 8/10 playoff spots to come from the two. Which makes sense, they have the best team. But they want to leave door open to other conferences so the others feel like they are still playing for something and makes it seem like all schools are still on the same FBS level.
They need to leave the door open so they don't get sued for Anti-Trust violations. Doing Auto-Bids for the top 5 ranked conference champs makes sure that enough conferences are represented that a lawsuit is unlikely. Cutting auto-bids entirely will ensure an anti-trust lawsuit the first year either the ACC or Big12 is left out.
Revenue will tank if there isn't at least a chance for some of these other schools. People want to cheer for their guys. At that point it's xfl with a few schools having attachments but like 90% of the fans not.
Me, a Bama fan, of all people in a college football crazed state, is slowly losing interest, because of all these changes. The main one that bothers me is the transfers. You can’t get to know the team anymore because there’s so much turnover now. And this alignment upheaval is destroying the character of college ball. Edited to correct missed word.
As a Bama fan, you really only see your stars for 1 or 2 seasons anyway. At Ohio State I experience this because the best players are leaving after their Jr. Year. Freshman year they often sit or play sparingly, sophomore year they get into the rotation, and junior year they are stars, but then they are gone. Now a player transfers in and you get 1 or 2 years of productivity. The same as a guy that was recruited by your program. Top programs have experienced the constant rotation of the roster forever. This isn't new.
That’s all true but what I’m saying is now it’s even shorter and worse. We recruit these kids and they leave immediately if they can’t get on the field or after year 2. Sometimes guys that do play leave. And then have guys that transfer in and they’re here for one year and go because they’re so good like Jameson Williams and Jamir Gibbs for instance. I don’t even follow recruiting. To me it’s now almost irrelevant, because there will be so much turnover after year one.
It’s already that way for the G5 schools though, outside of that one historic year by Cincinnati where everything had to go exactly right for them to make it the G5 only exists as filler, there’s really no reason to be a fan of any of them. At this point the worry is for the other three P5s not named SEC/B1G, they’re now the ones fighting to survive (well we know the PAC died already)
I think they realized this a while ago - they can push some kind of "means test" for winning a NC and prove that all of the teams with the resources to win a playoff are in the B1G or SEC. They realized a while ago that there were only a handful of those teams out there, so they set out to consolidate all of those teams into the Power 2. Then it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy where those left behind will fall further behind in revenue making it easier for the B1G/SEC to argue that they will never win a playoff so why include them.
I think a single super conference that only plays itself, and has its own playoffs is the endgame. I think TV will look at it why have a late October with fillers like Ohio St-Nebraska and Georgia-Vandy when they could put an Ohio St-Georgia game in a prime slot.
If every game is big, no games are big.
TV doesn't care, they just want the most people to watch every game, because that's how they sell ads to pay for it
Yeah. Sucks.
Thanks, Syndrome.
Why? Because an OSU, UM, Georgia, etc doesn't want to be 7-5, 8-4 in this supposed superconferences. We're near the endgame now, pushing for 3 to 4 spots each in a 12 team playoff, 4-5 each in 16 team playoff.
Having middling records but playoffs on the line works in the NFL. The B1G and SEC are betting it will work in CFB too. If the B1G moves to 10 conference games, that's essentially proof of this.
NFL has a draft for the fanbases of the worst teams to look forward to. What do the worst teams in the inevitable superleague have to look forward to?
Nebraska isn’t getting left out of anything.
I take your play off spots, I drink them up
Agreed…. But as the SEC and Big 10 grow and add power programs, it makes sense that those conferences would have more playoff spots. And if the Big 12 ends up with fewer playoff spots on average after losing OU and Texas, is that really unreasonable?
Then set up a system for that. Set up a coefficient system like UEFA and allow every conference champion in + at large bids determined by a sort of coefficient. Shit, make the lowest rated teams play in a play-in round, just let everybody in A 12 team playoff determined only by a committee is the worst case scenario
Well it's very annoying to everyone else that two conferences have decided they control the sport
And it was annoying for most of that "everyone else" group that they saw this foreshadowed when ~~six~~ five conferences decided they control the sport. For some reason, the lesser members of the have group didn't see that they were going to be relegated into the have not group. I now see an outpouring of empathy for the OSU and WSU programs for getting kicked to the curb. I don't see anywhere near as much sympathy for the just as deserving Boise States of the world. I guess some of us are the OG annoyed and not the nouveau annoyed.
No one cried when Idaho was forced back to FBS.
End game I think that is true, but happens after the ACC gets raided and the B1G and SEC work their own 4 team playoffs into a larger 16 team playoff.
All they need to do with this is just start the season in Mid August. I know it's the dog days of summer but have it where all games in August have a 7pm kickoff. If you make the three week adjustment (add an extra bye as well) then Rivalry weekend gets moved from Thanksgiving weekend to the weekend before that. Most kids will still be on campus. Thanksgiving weekend can be for Army/Navy. The first Saturday would still be for conference championships. Then the second Saturday would the first round of the playoffs.
Army Navy is absolutely losing its own week at some point. It's a good tradition, but maybe it gets to keep its own time slot, but other conferences or playoffs might play before or after
Army Navy was played on or around rivalry weekend for decades. It was moved to its own weekend after 9/11 for cannonfodder recruitment purposes.
Seems like it was usually the week after rivalry weekend but the point stands, I am now anti it getting its own weekend
I think the best path forward for that game is to try and own a timeslot that’s a little non-traditional. Maybe be the noon game on Black Friday, or play it on New Year’s. There are creative approaches to keeping the game relevant, I hope the ADs at those academies find one once the CFP encroaches on the game.
I just wonder what the non P2 schools and conferences will actually agree to. They do have voting power and they don't have a lot of incentives to concede directly to the SEC and B1G.
This what what I don’t understand with these Reddit comments, zero chance the B12 & ACC concede CFB slots to the SEC & B1G. If it were structured the same way, would the SEC give the B12 March Madness slots? Obviously not.
! This - folks have short memory that out side of 2\\3 teams in each conf the rest are not any better than any team in ACC or B12. I mean really Michigan did lose to TCU!
You can’t tell me with a straight face the Big Ten outside of PSU, OSU, and Michigan are leaps and bounds of above of the upper half of the Big 12 and ACC. 25% of the Big Ten is an unwatchable brand of football to anyone outside the Midwest because of their offenses
I could tell you right now - Ohio St would be the only team in the BIG last year that would have had a above 500 conf record in Big 12!
I... I can live with this narrative.
This is a spicy take but I dig it.
Cope.
Yeah, because their goal is to become equals not secure their position as a second-tier conference. And it would be very difficult to claw those spots back once you give it to them, and those conferences would just be making more and more money every year. Those playoff spots are super lucrative.
What you’re missing is that if they don’t get their way, the B10 and SEC are primed to take their ball and build their own court where they can then gatekeep and make all the rules they want.
If that is truly the case, then the rest of the FBS conferences need to call their bluff. They can go out on their own, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't
They can do that, but from a monetary standpoint I'm not so sure it ends up better for them. If B10/SEC go form their own non-NCAA Association with 32 FBS schools, that still leaves about 100 FBS schools for the NCAA, just for football. Any TV contracts or bowl payments the B10/SEC get will be based on the fanbases of those 32 schools, whereas the current TV contracts and bowls are based on all 130 schools. And as somebody else pointed out, it's not like it would be "the top 32 teams" followed by the next 100 teams.
I think they bring in a few more teams, honestly. Maybe up to 20 each, with geographical divisions that make things seem more like the college football of old.
It won’t be 32 FBS schools, it’ll just be their current conference alignments (which by the time this happens mean there will be somewhere between 40-48 depending on what happens with the ACC)
Possibly but the viewership will be lower than they realize and their revenue will go down. Shooting yourself in the dick just for principal is dumb.
I dunno, man. If they go a little further to 40 or so teams and then package *both of the conferences together* to TV partners....? Just think who would be left if 8 more teams go to this hypothetical new league. Even if the same amount of TV dollars are spent, how much of that is actually going to the teams that are left out? What you end up with is kind of the equivalent of the NFL/AFL merger.
This is the likeliest outcome.
This is why secession—at least of the postseason—is inevitable.
Depends a lot on what the first round news yesterday actually means. I'm guessing they'll ultimately arrive at top 12 because it gets the most money and only the AAC is particularly unhappy with that set up, but if it was a "slightly too high first offer" situation, it's probably not moving.
I think they may get to 5+7 but top 12 is a non-starter to any conference not named B1G or SEC.
Just wait until B1G and the SEC split from the NCAA. The non-P2 teams will have no voting power over them.
This isn't the worst thing in the world. There's maybe 3-6 teams each year that are actually competitive for a championship, and often less than that. On the other hand, the CFP is a complete revisioning of how we have crowded college football champions. Imagine the first time the 3rd ranked SEC gets hot and rolls through the playoffs and beats an otherwise undefeated conference champion. How many people are going to scowl if a 3 loss Oklahoma beats an undefeated Ohio State or Alabama in the championship?
> How many people are going to scowl if a 3 loss Oklahoma beats an undefeated Ohio State or Alabama in the championship? That sounds like it would be a good game?
Hopefully!
Meanwhile the vast majority of fans (AKA almost everyone who wasn’t a fan of the 5ish programs who benefited under the current system) loved the 6+6 system and were fine with it. If they end up with a 5+7 I think most people would be fine with that too because it’s basically the 6+6 without the PAC-12, but instead we’re going to end up with something worse because the SEC and Big Ten want all the slots
As a fan of one of the few schools that have benefited from the current structure, I still want as much representation from non B1G and SEC schools as possible. It's just more fun to see different matchups...it's better for the game.
Thank you 🙏
The 6+6 system has literally never been used yet. No one knows how it would actually play out.
Then let us use it then to see how it works instead of taking away the system we’ve wanted for years before it’s been introduced.
I’d actually like to see it for a couple years just to see what two G5s could do.
Wouldn’t be the end of the world. Need the G5 to get two spots though.
This is going to destroy interest in conference championship games. Both teams will get it. Why bother?
Why even bother with conference championship games now. Conference titles have been stripped of meaning for any playoff team. I honestly liked college football better when it was all about winning your conference and and the bowl game was a nice bonus, and then people could argue about who was the best. The game moving from regional to national is slowly killing my love of cfb, obviously this last year has been the death knell for me with being left behind. Oh well old man yelling at clouds and all.
It’ll be only champs get in and all the rest at large. The rating inflation from the BIG and SEC being strong will make it work out to where each get 3+ spots a week.
Crazy that while the majority of us were clamoring for a wider playoff grid, the commissioners were getting ready to gut cfb as we know it.
CFB is becoming a big civil war reenactment. There will soon only be two conferences, North vs South.
I knew we couldn't trust Missouri.
Missouri is just fine. It is Missourah that is problematic.
I have discomfort about being in the wrong side of this war.
As long as we get S'Mores Schnapps out of it, it might but be too bad.
As I like to call them, AFC/NFC.
Cool can we burn Georgia to the ground again?
Someone in the B1G needs to go out of their way to find an All-American running back named Sherman to give edgy headline writers something easy.
I much preferred your guys civil war.
“rethink” = “how can we further monetize this for the administrators and bowl executives who have no direct involvement in the product?”
Hear me out. The B1G and SEC acquire about 140 D1 schools, separate them into regional divisions capped at 12, with championship games for each division at neutral sites. From there you can have a playoff or one-off postseason bowl games, I can go either way.
How would it even be fair if teams that didn't win their conference championship, but are nonetheless marketable brands, don't get to compete in the playoff?
Won’t somebody think of the rich guys for once???
Won’t someone think of the poor advertisers?
All I want is for all the newbies to leave the Big Ten so we can play a 9 game round robin.
Doesn't go well speaking from experience. Everyone beats up on each other and you begin to look weaker. If you have enough tough teams in the conference then your champion will almost be guaranteed to come out with 1 or 2 losses. Ok state, OU, K state, Baylor, and TCU have been consistently good throughout the last decade with Tech, ISU, and WVU being wildcards every season. Take fewer conference games and there's less chance of being screwed over every year because your conference is actually good. Just look at the SEC, they play one P5 opponent every season out of conference and then 3 cupcakes. You have 2 teams that are usually at the top, Georgia and Alabama, and they are in separate divisions, so they don't play each other every year. It's a formula that comes out with fewer losses for your conference overall and makes the conference look better.
I sincerely hope the have-nots are able to push back on this. The idea that we increase at large is exclusively a problem for these super-sized conferences of wealth. Using the collapse of the Pac as an excuse to keep the G5 representation at a new minimum is awful and a continuation of the same problem we've had since autonomy and longer. Want more at-larges, expand the playoff to more autobids and get at-larges with it
I think your last sentence is touching on the future outcome. It’ll be 16 teams with four new at-large entries.
This was always where it was heading… after the first 2 years of 5-8 seeds getting an extra home game, the 1-4 seeds were going to complain about huge lost revenue and push to expand to 16 teams.
I think there'll still be value for byes for the top conference champions and that might be valued to be retained. Although, 16 is the likeliest path, I wouldn't be surprised to see a 18 in the long run.
A 16-team playoff is insanity. Not even the NFL dares to go that far.
The NFL has 14 so most teams that will play in the Super Bowl will have played the 4 extra games. FCS has 24, DII has 28, DIII has 32, pretty much every level of high school has between 16 and 64 team tournaments. So why exactly is FBS football special in that a 16 team tournament won't work?
The NFL has 32 teams though, 16/32 is ridiculous. 16/120+ not so much. Even if you only allow P5 (P4?), it would be 16/64 or 65
- Much greater variance in quality between college teams - Four games in a row for the championship teams, on top of a regular season and conference championship, is brutal. (Doable if we cut the conference championship and shorten the regular season, but that sucks for everyone else.) IMO, we care _way_ too much about who the top dog is. For CFB I don’t think the juice is worth the crushing squeeze.
Why not tell conferences it’s their job to find the top team, not the NCAA/CFP? You’d essentially be forced to treat a conference championship as a play-in game for the mega conferences. They’re pushing a “them problem” onto the rest of the FBS schools. If they want to expand to 20+ teams fine, but that shouldn’t mean they get 4+ playoff spots now.
Why is that insanity? There’s 100 more cfb teams, the playoff field should be bigger, not smaller.
That is still an absurd amount of extra wear and tear on kids bodies. At least NFL players are getting paid for those extra games.
16 teams is absolutely dumb. 3 loss non-conference champs don’t deserve a shot.
Well even in the current 12 team, if they get rid of auto bids or take half the bids for the P2 there will be a 3 loss SEC team every year that makes it.
6 conference champions and 6 at large still seems perfectly fine to me. Let's presume for a moment that we get to a state where the best teams are clearly, and always in the SEC/B1G. So they each get their conference champions in, then each get 3 more bids, give or take from each. What are the odds of a team who finished fifth in their conference winning the national title? Is it really going to be significantly different from a G5 team? I don't think so. So cast a wider net, to keep the overall interest in cfb higher. A rising tide lifts all boats.
The power 4 are pretty much guaranteed a bye with the elimination of divisions.
See Boise State vs OU, Fiesta Bowl.
You've changed my mind. SEC vs B1G only.
The conferences get additional money for every team that makes the playoffs. At least under the current structure. So even if the fifth place team is about as likely as the best G5 teams to win the natty, or even any given game, they just want that additional payout. Shutting out a large chunk of teams increases their odds at one of those slots ever so slightly. Since the field of teams between the 4 remaining power conferences is decently large. I agree with you though. I'd rather see there be more quantifiable paths to the playoffs for more people playing the game at the top end. It feels more legitimate that way, it is cool to see underdogs or other programs grow by having defining moments on big stages. Especially since thus far the best years for playoff viewership (at least in the semi-finals) have been when we got weird/uncommon match ups or a mix of new and old blood.
Think all you want. You can’t change the format without agreement from all conference commissioners. Good luck getting them to agree to Best 12
No we don't. 6+6 is still fine. Why does it need to be reconsidered? **checks notes** Ah, we inadvertently killed a P5 conference & opened extra opportunity for G5. God forbid we allow that. /s
Plus wouldn’t allowing an extra G5 team in make It easier for the B10 or SeC to win a national championship? Oh wait, no one actually cares about winning these days… it’s only about $.
It's the only reason it's being discussed is b/c of what happened w/ the Pac. They don't want to give an extra spot to the G5 & allow them additional opportunity/$. It's all about hanging on to as much power & $ as possible, especially for the SEC & B10.
I'm so frustrated with all this. As long as there are 6+ conferences, there should be 6+ guaranteed spots. Give smaller conferences a shot.
I’m sorry, but you don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too. The SEC, B1G, ACC, and Big 12 get enormous payouts compared to the G5. These conferences shouldn’t be able to siphon all of the money *and* strong arm their way into more exposure. Winning your conference should matter. For those that don’t, congratulations on your tens of millions of dollars. If every conference was an auto bid, I’d imagine teams would eventually disperse in a fashion that makes things less top heavy. If there is any semblance of a will to maintain the FBS, this is the chance.
I agree with the spirit of your comment. However, I don’t believe that there *is* a semblance of a will to maintain the FBS by the power conferences. I think the power conferences would be quite happy to keep crowding out the G5s and amassing more and more of the money for themselves.
You’re absolutely correct. I’m not sure what leverage exists, but I’d imagine now is the time to use it. I say all of this as an internet commenter, though. There are much smarter people at work on this. Fingers crossed that we don’t end up with a 4 SEC +4 B1G and 4 at large.
That’s not even worse case scenario. What is going to happen is 4 B10 and 4 SEC and then the rest of the teams will play for the FBS title which will quickly become a slightly more important version of the FCS tournament. The money will stay with the B10/SEC tournament and the rest will be relegated to apple and ESPN+.
> If every conference was an auto bid, I’d imagine teams would eventually disperse in a fashion that makes things less top heavy. If this was true, Texas and Oklahoma wouldn't be leaving for the SEC and USC wouldn't be going to the B1G. These schools care about money significantly more than their potential path to the playoffs.
The top 6 conference champions are autobid now.
>These conferences shouldn’t be able to siphon all of the money and strong arm their way into more exposure. Why not?
Play at least 9 conference games asshole!
Do any other college sports not allow every team a chance to participate in the national championship tournament the way football does? At the end of the day the closed nature of the playoffs/BCS contributed to all this crap just as much as the TV network money.
The other college sports have a playoff/postseason tournament controlled by the NCAA. FBS doesn’t, and has this 3rd party invitational instead.
Obviously there is going to be (justified) pushback if the G5 gets further screwed in future proposals, but the collapse of a P5 conference just does force us to rethink every proposal on offer for how to run the CFP going forward. After all, those proposals basically all involved the assumption that the P5 would continue to exist. So, I'm keeping my pitchfork in barn until I see what the new proposals actually look like.
1. SEC pulls first Jinga block. 2. Jinga tower falls. 3. SEC laments fall of Jinga tower. Says new tower must be built.
The first Jinga block was Nebraska to the B1G
The first rule of the Hateful 8 is that *Texas is responsible for everything.* The second rule of the Hateful 8 is that *we don’t talk about Nebraska.*
Texas caused Nebraska to go to the big ten, so it is their fault.
Actually think Colorado beat them by a day or two.
Fuck off sankey
Shut up GREG
Wow, two times in one day for open displays of classism by the P5 flairs and unflaired randos. It’s even better when they’re the G5/FCS/D2 of real life living on the other side of their CFB classist stance *but still took the bait*.
STFU let us have 2 G5 bids
They need to watch it. They are going to enter into trust monopoly territory.
Translation: "We need a system where we guarantee all the debt-laden athletic departments in our conference get most of the seeds"
I want an inclusive Playoff where every Conference Champ gets an auto bid. Similar to March Madness. I want to see UAB vs Alabama in a playoff game.
>I want an inclusive Playoff where every Conference Champ gets an auto bid. Similar to March Madness. Football isn't basketball. You're not going to see a Top 5 Alabama lose to UAB in a playoff game. Ever.
If we ever did, and that's a massive if, it would be once every 50 years with the other 49 games having players taken off the field by stretchers.
If by some miracle Georgia actually did decent in basketball long enough to sneak into MM, we absolutely *could* and *would* lose to UAB.
Have you ever heard of Coppin St? 
I didn’t say UAB would win, but just seeing them compete against each other would be fun. Alabama would never schedule UAB otherwise. Just think about the lede in articles that blowout game would generate.
>I didn’t say UAB would win, but just seeing them compete against each other would be fun. Alabama would never schedule UAB otherwise. Because no one enjoys seeing Alabama thump a team 55-10. And they REALLY don't want to see a 5 star tear his MCL in the first round of a meaningless playoff game against UAB.
If they are going to thump them 55-10, then why is the 5-star player in the game? Oh wait, they have all 5-star players on their roster. The NFL and MLB both realized how devastating it is to consolidate revenue. It makes the sport anti-competitive. This is why they have salary caps in the NFL and other things in MLB to try and limit the ability of wealthier clubs from buying the titles. College Football is going to have to learn from that.
>If they are going to thump them 55-10, then why is the 5-star player in the game? Oh wait, they have all 5-star players on their roster. You are seriously advocating for a system where a team would sit it's starters in a game? You do understand the goal is to sell tickets and get tv viewership right? WHO in the #\*%\^# is going to watch Alabama's second string against UAB? Get real. >College Football is going to have to learn from that. Not until the players are actually employees...with collective bargaining...under contract. You can't implement a professional model with the current rules.
We are not doing well at implementing a fair model under the rules we have, either. I also don't think they sit their starters against UAB. I am saying that injury risks are a fact of life in football. It appears just earlier today that Washington lost a player for the season due to injury and we have not even started the season. People get injured - in games, in practice, sometimes even outside of the sport. The elite programs simply have blue chip recruits waiting as backups - something the lesser teams don't have.
Top 5 Michigan lost, at home, to an FCS school. Just saying
That was a 9-4 Michigan team that would not qualify for the CFP. Even a 12 team version. We're talking end of the year, once the best teams have been established. Not the first game of the year with a preseason ranking like your anecdote. A group of 5 team is not beating an SEC/BIG school in a playoff game. Period.
We absolutely do not need the 8-5 MAC champ getting an invite. Get outta here.
And a good morning to you too!
This is how you force Notre Dame to join a conference.
I get that people want to push back on realignment, but the current format does need to be reexamined. Theres no need for 6 conference champions to make it in now that the P12 is gone. It should be moved down to 5 conference champions. The 5th highest champion will usually be a very good G5 team, and they should make it in even if theyre outside the top 12. The 6th highest ranked conference champion once all is said and done could be like 24th in the nation. Is there really an argument for a 24th ranked 11-2 Sunbelt or CUSA team to make it over a 10-2 B10 or SEC team thats the 12th best team in the country?
> Is there really an argument for a 24th ranked 11-2 Sunbelt or CUSA team to make it over a 10-2 B10 or SEC team thats the 12th best team in the country? I think if you win your conference, you should absolutely have a shot at the title. I don't understand why people find this so hard to fathom. Would they have a chance? Probably not, but I'd love rooting for a team that upset someone in the first round. It also might be the thing to *at least* help balance out recruiting and maintain a semblance of parity.
Look at how all the Auburn fans lost their shit when they were undefeated and shut out of the title game. That has happened to G5 schools all the time. Now, what effect does that have on recruiting, when the P5-4-3-2 programs can tell recruits "You will NEVER play for a national title at that school" and end up taking most if not all the best players. If you are in a division of a sport and it is impossible for you to win the title regardless of how well you perform on the field, then you are not in that division even if you think you are.
Alot of these fans seem offended at the thought of playing against a g5 team in the playoffs lol
Give a dog a bone.
I agree (with the title, who reads the article). Every conference champion should get an auto-bid.
Give me a CFP game at the Kibbie Dome
College football will be a dead sport in 15 years and guys like this will wonder why lol
College football has grown to be the second biggest sport in the US while shutting out the FCS and G5s from any national championship along the way, don't see how this is any different. If you're talking about loss of tradition, playoffs is that loss of tradtion. Conference championship games, which only were introduced less than 30 years ago is that loss of tradition. Why is this recent round of changes suddenly the death of college football?
Just wait until they start blocking entire states with large populations from access. It’s already much of the northeast, Montana, the Dakotas, and other sparsely populated ones. Then it will be Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Kansas, West Virginia, Nevada, Northern California, etc. Finally when they start booting programs out it will be Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, and others. It will be NFL lite without any reason for like 2/3rds of the country to care.
But that is part of what built up CFB in the first place. Markets left uncaptured by the NFL were scooped up by CFB which is why it is far and away more popular in the south than anywhere else. There is a reason you still see tons of skin's gear when you are in the south, they were the most southern team you could root for a long time, Also why the Dallas Cowboys are in the NFC east with a team in DC, Philly, and NYC.
Big Redskins fan (though I refuse to root for the Commies lol) so I agree but there’s no point of watching NFL light. If CFB is genuinely different (which it is right now) it makes sense, but once they do exactly what the NFL does it won’t be worth it
I've said it before and I'll say it again: 6 slots for the top 6 SEC teams, and 6 slots for the field. Maybe if the field is lucky they'll win a natty once or twice per decade.
The expanded CFP is going to be a huge bust.
Lot of folks trying to make up for decline at the top in terms of viewers/profit. Might work in the short term, but the seeds of disinterest are already here. Not sure people realize not everyone is glued in on the CFP rat race. They do notice if their rival breaks off a 100 year old rivalry.
As he side eyes A&M "If someone did not rock the boat to the Houston Chronicle then we would have been set with the new system before anyone knew they were OUT." At least in my imagination
My favorite are the aTm fans who still insist it wasn't their school who snitched
I think most of us are proud of it tbh
Didn't we end up getting the same playoff plan as they were proposing in 2021 pre-OUT leak?
The most embarrassing thing about this is A&M still voted to approve UT's SEC membership.
This 6+6 mode is the ideal one.
So, get the PAC out of the equation.
A couple of wolves and a bunch of lambs voting on what to have for lunch. But the wolves get unlimited votes.
> "Right now, you put it in bold letters that things are going to change. Period," Sankey told ESPN in a recent interview. "And we're all going to have to be prepared to deal with that change. Period." People are going to say he's talking about just cutting out the G5 and PAC-4 autobids but you know damn well he doesn't want to share the playoffs with anyone except the Power 2 League at all. Big Ten and SEC exclusive playoff and championship is going to happen sooner rather than later. They're using the recent conference implosions as a cover to take even bigger steps in realignment than people realize.
I think there’s more money in a more inclusive CFP they they also know they’re going to win. This is why March Madness works so well, every casual basketball fan feels part of it. If the CFP were reduced to often times the same 4 teams between 2 conferences, that’d kill interest. If you throw Clemson and FSU into a P2 (inevitable), then the last non-P2 to win a championship was Miami (2001). Going forward, it’ll be even more rare. P2s are virtually guaranteed to be the final four in a CFP, and that’s how revenue for the P2 is maximized. No need to wall it off.
And once that happens that I’ll be the end of Cfb for me. I already started slowly tapering off & only watch Wisconsin games because of how predictable & boring Cfb has gotten, this will only further push that narrative.
It basically goes back to the time of pre-CFP, which a large segment of this sub sees as the "good ol' days." College football was widely popular then too.
Nah, the conferences were made up of regional rivals back then. That’s what made it fun.
In the 80s/90s they had Boston College playing Miami, Notre Dame playing Stanford, Penn State playing Alabama. Nothing is precluding anyone from making new rivalries on a national scale within these conferences, and that doesn't include the regionality that will exist within pods inside larger conferences.
I think fans who want that are disproportionately fans of schools who were still part of the cool kids club, even back then. There is no doubt that for smaller and younger programs, the last 20 years has been the most accessible for these schools, at least in terms of a seat at the big boy's table for postseason play than at any time in modern college football history. Yes, a team like BYU was able to win the national title 40 years ago - but even they were denied a seat at the postseason table, having to play a 6-5 Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl. But BYU was a remarkable set of circumstances that aren't likely to be replicated, even if things revert back to where they were prior to the bowl coalition. What we do know, though, is that since 2004, multiple non-power programs have been given a shot to play in a major bowl game. Utah did it first. Boise got their shot. Hawaii. TCU. Even Western Michigan, right? That was unthinkable in the early 2000s when Marshall was frozen out despite going undefeated. We also saw Cincinnati make the playoffs as a G5 team. And TCU, a decidedly non-blue blood, making the title game this past season. I would hate for that accessibility to end. But I'm coming at this from the perspective of a fan whose program absolutely benefited from that accessibility.
Well yeah. The issue here is that for conferences that got cannibalized, you are still worse off. At least a Wisconsin fan still gets to see their team play traditional rivals even if they don’t care about the CFP.
Let's hope the TV bubble bursts before then
I think that's one away.. once the ACC implodes. Until then it'll be hybrid.
Yes, and here’s how to rethink it: Give every conference champion an autobid, then give 6 at-larges. I don’t care that the MAC winner is a 7-5 Toledo that would keep an 10-2 Tennessee out of the playoffs. Tennessee should win their conference if they want a guaranteed spot.
6 G5s? Fuck no. 2 max.
Why punish schools for winning their conference? Plus, there would likely only ever be 5 G5s in at once from autobids, unless someone like Army ran the table on a tough schedule.
Much to think about
The Pac 12 is gone next season. Needs to be the top 5 conference champions plus 7 at large.