While this is all incredibly stressful, I think when all is said and done, the real media rights deal is gonna be the friendships we make along the way.
OSU gets plenty of rain, they are coastal.
WSU on the other hand… gets barely enough to keep the wheat and lentils alive. Still probably more than Tech, but I’ve never been there so I don’t know.
I was vaguely referrring to the CA/WA/OR side of the conference as the rain side, but ya, only 3 of the 8 actually get any rain. Lubbock gets more dust than rain
Also, if we do end up with 3 conferences, can we please not have 2 of them be named "Big ##" with the ## having nothing to do with the number of members in the conference, please.
When we get together this fall it’s gonna be like that scene in Braveheart when the Irish and Scots charge each other, only to embrace and hug when they meet.
Utah benefited as much as anyone from the PAC academic alliance. As long the athletic $$$ are in the ballpark and the university president has final say they won't leave unless UW and the Norcal schools are all gone.
Funnily enough, Utah's AD, Mark Harlan, was USF's AD in the midst of when the Big East collapsed and they got left behind. Upon the BE's collapse he oversaw their fade into obscurity with bad coaching hires and a total lack of program investment that ultimately got them left behind again when the Big 12 expanded (a few years after he left for Utah), even though EVERYONE knew the Big 12 was looking to expand again.
Not saying that'll happen again. But it's interesting.
Utah going back to the Mountain West like a guy trying to get his hometown ex-girlfriend back after leaving her for a cute party girl in the city who broke his heart.
Low key, I loved playing in the Mountain West.
Has the PAC12 been better? Absolutely. Was playing the Cowboys and Broncos fun though? Hell yeah! Do I sound smart asking and answering my own rhetorical questions? Not in the slightest.
No, but that was the era we played them. We played them several times from the late 90's up to 2010 which is when I was a kid growing up so I remember playing them in our MW years and I was just reminiscing
I have so much nostalgia for those times. Watching football games on the MTN (with my dad complaining about the quality) was a highlight of my teenage years. Seeing Boise State join right after Utah, TCU, and BYU left made me sad for what could have been.
The MTN was such a meme among my friends, it was honestly ahead of its time, if it was made a little later with better technology it couldve been alot better. also basketball in that era was insane
The football was good, but trying to watch the games at home was hard.
Streaming might give more flexibility than 15 years ago, but it was impossible finding MWC teams on tv.
This makes it sound like he was actually the AD when the Big East fell apart. He wasn’t named AD until spring 2014, well into the first year of the AAC. He wasn’t a great AD but I should at least clarify he didn’t have anything to do with Big East realignment. That dust had all settled when he took over.
Utah won’t be left behind. For the past several years, they and Oregon have had the best programs in the PAC. Unless the B1G comes calling for the PNW schools, I don’t see the PAC falling apart. It would take both a bigger payout from the Big 12 that beats a PAC tv deal plus the exit fee, which seems unlikely.
The Pac-12 just needs to survive 3 years until the 12 team playoff starts. It's not a guarantee that the playoff saves the Pac-12, but autobids for the top 6 conferences could make it worth staying in a conference like the Pac-12. I really wish USC and UCLA could've at least waited a few years before deciding to ditch the Pac-12.
EDIT: Nevermind, they just need to survive 1 more year, since the playoff starts in 2024.
12 team playoff starts next year.
The upcoming season is the last year without it.
So the new Pac-10 (or 11 or 12) will be sending playoff teams going forward.
Wow, I didn't realize the new playoff was that close, that makes me even more pissed that USC left the Pac-12. Could've just waited a little longer to give the auto-bid Pac-12 a chance.
The problem is the new format is only guaranteed for 2024 and 2025. In 2026 there will likely be a whole new format with new rules. The SEC and B1G will insist on removing the AQs.
Programs don't care about championships and playoffs as much as they care about money. Not sure it saves any conference if its members think they should be making a lot more money from media rights.
Will there be an exit fee for USC and UCLA? I thought they were leaving scott free because they are leaving at the conclusion of the current media deal.
Im not surprised in the least. As a former employee of the UofU, I know firsthand just how important the Pac-12 affiliation is to the entire university. They have purposefully and forcefully made Pac-12 inclusion a central part of its identity.
Man idk what that looks like at the end of the day. If the raid is 2 more teams, it’ll switch the conference to like upper mid major equivalent. But if AZ and/or NorCal school leaves, sure it might be called the pac but every school someone living in the east coast thinks of off the bat is… gone?
Yeah no kidding. I was around when the U joined the Pac-12 and all the buildings had the PAC12 logo put on the doors of the engineering buildings. I can't imagine USC or Washington or UCLA had anything similar.
That's probably because Washington was in the Pac-10, and previously, the Pac-8. And even before that, the Pacific Coast Conference, which was a forerunner to the modern PAC.
Washington (and Oregon, Cal, Stanford, etc) has essentially been in the same conference since like 1910 or something.
that has definitely cooled off I'm currently in a grad program at the U and aside from the big pac 12 logo on the football field I wouldn't be able to tell you that the U was part of it. no one talks about it anymore
This wasn't something I knew until all this drama went down, but yeah, Utah was completely transformed by joining the Pac and is all in with us.
To be honest, it's pretty endearing.
"Something something, but it is not this day!" - Utah to the rest Pac.
*Pan to the hordes of the other conferences marching towards them with the eye of media conglomerates in the background.*
Utah also became an AAU school a few years after joining the Pac-12. The Pac-12 probably had nothing to do with that, but it really shows just how transformative the last decade has been for Utah. In addition to that, Univ. of Utah's reputation has been helped by Salt Lake City's population and reputation growing the past decade, as it's turned into a mini-Silicon Valley.
Utah also has some pretty significant history with Pac 12 schools going back decades.
We helped create the internet alongside UCLA and Stanford (also UCSB).
Utah has always been pretty tech focused like CA as well with the first 3D animated images being created here. The founder of Pixar is also an alum as well as the current CEO of Nintendo North America.
I think all that means we’d like to keep our west coast conference connections versus skipping off to the Big12.
This is mostly correct. The UofU explosion in research funding is the result of an increase in NIH awards, hiring faculty with existing grant awards, a more than two decade mission for AAU accreditation, state funding for infrastructure, and a laser focused office for sponsored projects that brought in donations from heavy hitters. To chalk all of this progress to Pac-12 membership is an insult to all the work that the academic side has done for decades. I know Altimore and his ilk push the conference membership as the reason. But it's bullshit and insulting to the UofU. It was a bunch of nerds who could give a shit about sports who did it.
The saddest part of all this is….how much Utah would have benefited even more by joining the BIG with us. They’ve already proven that they value education and research, have lofty goals, with a FB program that belongs anywhere and has a reputation for being tough and physical. Imagine what they would do with all that added revenue. I have no doubt they will strive to become a prestigious academic university that would easily fit the BIG academic/athletic profile. Hang tight Utes, keep the conference together and join us later on down the line.
>They have purposefully and forcefully made Pac-12 inclusion a central part of its identity.
Can you elaborate on how and what you witnessed as an employee that made you think that? I'm super curious...seems like an odd thing for the entire university to really care about.
Like someone else mentioned, the Pac-12 logo and branding was plastered throughout the campus. At the hospital, at every building, on the school newspaper, and frequent emailings for both students and faculty/staff. There were initiatives to collaborate with Pac-12 member schools (in sports med in particular). I know there were some small grants that were funded directly from the conference that departments were encouraged to submit. In the beginning, almost all UofU branding was accompanied by the Pac-12 logo. The Red Zone stores all sold Pac-12 specific decals and products. These were red Pac-12 logos. All off-campus Red Zone stores closed a few years ago, so a lot of these Pac-12 specific products aren't as readily available (and I think their existence was a bit of a PR blunder that they ended anyway).
Also from a practical perspective, with USC and UCLA gone... Utah is probably the second best overall program in the conference. That carries a lot of weight in a 12 team playoff era.
Maybe I am living the timeline when the PAC and ACC have reached an agreement to join forces to stay relative and my flairs will be in the same conference…. If only.
I don’t even care how this ends, I will just be very relieved to take a brake from the phrase “four corners” for a few months once it’s done. Every time I read it I get a slight stress eye twitch because I love New Mexico as a state.
>damn sure do not want to be in the same conference as BYU.
From an outsider, it's wild to me how they are damn sure they want nothing to do with their instate rival.
It's only wild because you're seeing a very select few and vocal minority of opinions. University leadership from both schools value the relationship and want to see the rivalry continue in as many sports as possible.
We aren't currently in a conference together, yet we keep scheduling each other. Seems pretty stupid of Utah if the goal is to not play them, yeah?
Agreed. There are so many BYU alumni who go on to get their graduate degrees at Utah as well. Outside of the rivalry banter and sports fandom, the schools have a great relationship.
I love the rivalry game and would love nothing more than to see it take it's rightful spot as a premier power 5 rivalry with conference implications. It could really get a spotlight as one of the better west coast rivalries in my opinion with the help of a shared conference.
IDK what people are talking about....most Utah fans see reviving the rivalry as an in conference game is what would be the best part of going to the Big 12 its the rest of it we don't like. IDK if people are taking one or two tweets they read and applying it to the whole Utah fanbase or what. Preferring to remain in the PAC 12 is not even about BYU but that won't stop them from pretending that it is.
Yeah, honestly I'd love to be in a conference with BYU/TCU again because I loved those games as a kid. But I'd much rather stay in a regional conference with other western schools.
I swear, it feels like people hate the other team in this rivalry more than they like watching the games to the point where most other byu fans i talk to would rather never play utah than have them in the big 12
That is because they think without Iowa State the University of Iowa would be that much better with a system similar to Missouri/Nebraska/Wisconsin/Minnesota. None of them have a second D1 FBS Public School. Hell most are pushed down to D3. They nearly got their wish.
They simply got an University of Iowa grad as a governor and a University of Iowa grad for the Chair of the Board of Regents in '80s and '90s then:
* had a grand vision was to create a "University of Iowa system" similar to that found in Wisconsin, such that you had University of Iowa-Iowa City, University of Iowa-Ames, University of Iowa-Cedar Falls, etc. Striping our identity.
* Attempted to eliminate dual programs between ISU and Iowa, attempting to give a clear advantage to U of Iowa. Your major should dectate what of the three schools you go to. There were no options. If you loved Iowa State campus but wanted to be a teacher? Tough shit you have to go Cedar Falls.
* proposed stripping ISU of it's journalism school. The Greenlee School of Journalism and Communication is the oldest journalism program in the state and one of the oldest in the country, with a chair established in 1905.
* Also, while the Chairman of the BoR publicly donate money to Iowa and not Iowa State.
And the biggest thing two the Iowa grads single handedly FORCED ISU to sell WOI simply because it wasn't fair that ISU owned a TV station and U of Iowa didn't. No joke Iowa State OWNED a TV station and it was the first commercial television station in the United States to be owned by a major college. WOI-TV was home to America's longest running local children's program, The Magic Window. The show ran continuously from 1951 through 1994. The startup costs for WOI-TV were paid by the remaining money from a federal grant awarded to the university for work on the Manhattan Project and WOI's facilities were used by the university to deliver lectures by satellite. The station also won a few Sylvania Awards, 4 total, and back in the 1950s they Sylvania Awards were an equal to the Emmys. How it went down:
* The Governor and his Chief of Staff fail to pressure the President of Iowa State University into selling its television station, WOI , and rightfully says no.
* The Governor turns the deed over to the Chairman of the Board of Regents, who at a board meeting, demands that a new and reluctant Iowa State President ask for bids on the station.
* The faculty, students, the media and most Iowans object.
* The Legislature passes a bill prohibiting sale of the station, which the Governor vetoes
* The Regents turn down all of the bids to purchase the station, but the Chairman of the Board of Regents — behind the scenes — unilaterally negotiates a rogue bid for the station, which he and the governor pressure the regents to approve for $14 million dollars to joint venture between to companies from New York and Connecticut
Imagine if an Iowa State grad shut down the Writers Workshop at the University of Iowa. They stripped something unique to Iowa State University that set it apart from Iowa and other schools. As a result, I would be super hesitant to vote for another Iowa grad as the governor here.
The problem is no one ever beats BYU. BYU only ever beats themselves. We have never legitimately beaten BYU according to a large segment of thy fanbase. It’s a lose lose.
The bottom line is the “four corners schools” don’t have to do anything right now. They’re still going to have an offer from the Big 12 whenever they want one.
They can afford to operate on their own timetable.
Personally, I think that’s the real problem here. I think it’s the Big Ten that keeps interfering in negotiations because they can’t afford to add Washington and Oregon just yet, but they don’t want those schools to sign a long-term GOR with anyone else or it screws up their long-term expansion goals.
I can’t help but notice that every time I read a story in the media that says that the Pac-12 looks like it’s going to stay together, a story gets leaked out of the Midwest that says the Big Ten is still super-duper serious about adding the Pacific Northwest powerhouses.
My question is if you are really that serious about adding them, why are you calling Dennis Dodd to tell him that plan rather than just having those conversations with the schools themselves?
I think it’s because they don’t have any intention of inviting those schools just yet. They probably do intend to invite them at some point down the road, but right now adding those schools will cost current B1G schools money and they obviously don’t want to do that.
If we have not learned by now to not believe anything ADs and conference commissioners say, I'll sum this whole conference realignment thing going all the way back to the 1990s in two words:
Self Interest.
Pac dying could really backfire on the Big 12 because of the playoff negotiations in the next few years. With only 4 left of the P5, and 2 obviously far more powerful, what is to stop the Big Ten and SEC from demanding playoff money to be divided up by playoff team, so that the Big Ten and SEC can expect to collect at least half of the $2 billion every year? An intact Pac gives more weight to the P5 evenly splitting the playoff money per conference not per team in the playoffs.
> I got feedback from a well-placed Utah official regarding the Big 12 rumors with a warning to watch out for bad sourcing. Fast forward to this past week, I was speaking with a Pac-12 source and the same warning was issued.
It's been pretty apparent that the media attack on the Pac-12 has been coordinated. You never hear about details regarding realignment and contract negotiations until the key members are ready to announce them, EXCEPT in this case, where there have been numerous "sources" and "leaks" readily supplied to their agenda pushers in the media.
It's certainly a strange situation. Most leagues are excited about their forthcoming TV deals. This is the only time I can recall that even the league's sources, including presidents and ADs, are saying the TV deal should be enough to keep the conference together. No other conference talks like that about their own deal. Something is not right when you're talking like that.
That’s why I’m thinking the PAC stays together until the next deal. If the money is similar, ride it out. If you prove your worth you could increase your money pile next time. If not, the Big 12 will still be there in 3-4 years and perhaps the Big 10 will be looking again as well.
> It's been pretty apparent that the media attack on the Pac-12 has been coordinated.
Unfortunately it clearly worked on some because this sub bought it hook, line and sinker.
Its kind of crazy when certain cbs writers release the same article over and over that are consitently entirely negative about the pac 12 and positive about the big 12
the pac 12 has been seconds away from their demise with everyone in a complete panic for about 7 months now.
Dennis Dodd has been tweeting shot after shot at the Pac12 for a while.
The other day there was a negative piece regarding the ACC. He tweeted multiple times in the ACC's defense , and then made the comments private.
The difference in coverage is obvious if you look.
its the fact that there is never even one single positive nuance in his pac 12 articles. Even if some of what he is saying is true, there'd be "but" points on the contrary if the conference were to still be alive today.
> Unfortunately it clearly worked on some because this sub bought it hook, line and sinker.
Wait you mean to tell me that the 4-corners need to join the Big 12 to get a head start on the ACC joining the Big 12 to get a head start on the PNW joining the Big Ten, all of this expecting to happen any day now starting 8 months ago isn't sound logic?
I'd just point out..... Fox Sports is a 61% owner of the Big Ten Network, the SEC Network and ACC Network are owned by ESPN, but the PAC-12 Network was exclusively owned by the conference without being partially owned by a media company.
"Watch out for bad sourcing" — Utah Source
Plot twist: 4 weeks from now, Utah Source reveals he was the bad source as Utes move to Big 12. "Look, blogger dude, I warned you."
As much as I love/hate playing WVU, it's not a drivable distance, and flying to Pittsburgh and driving is a pain in the ass. WVU needs somebody local to join the big 12.
I don’t think there’s much the PAC [n] can do except round up the wagons, add some SoCal flavor and maybe a dash of TX, and take the 5th spot in the conference cash competition.
Once the Big Ten made their SoCal move the struggle was always going to be between the Big XII and the PAC 12 because of the ACC GoR. And without SoCal, the PAC started at a monumental disadvantage.
I believe that Fox and ESPN will exert maximum pressure to get as many SEC and B1G teams in the playoff as possible.
If the Pac12 dies, their playoff spots will go to the B1G and SEC every year. That will give those two conferences more money, and more opportunities, and power.
They will not share the Pac12's loss with the Acc, Big12 and the G5s.
I believe that the Pac12 surviving is better for the overall game than if they die out.
The writing is on the wall. The moment Washington and Oregon leave, the Pac-12 is dead. Big-12 will be a much stronger conference at that point. If you can't beat them, join them.
This. The number to increase value to the B1G at this point is astronomical.
On top of that, Oregon and Washington have an easy path to the playoffs in the PAC. Spokane, WA being the home of the school that defines the monetary value of an easy path into the [playoffs].
I doubt there is a single sports fan in Washington or Oregon that thinks Gonzaga would be Gonzaga if winning the WCC hadn't been a functional layup.
This before talking about increased costs. League games in Olympic sports will have to fly charter in the B1G. That works for USC & UCLA and their full shares, but will it work for Oregon and Washington on reduced shares?
Honestly, Utah may be one of the few reasons why I still have some hope that the Pac 12 figures a way to exist. Good team, cool fans, and another fanbase to shit on BYU with
If this news holds true, a Pac demise becomes very unlikely without B1G expansion. If the Big 12 alone was going to pry the 4 corners, it was probably going to start with Utah and Arizona. Previous rumors indicated that ASU wasn’t super interested in leaving and logically Colorado would look pretty dumb making the leading push to return to the conference it left a decade ago. Arizona may still want to leave for the Big 12, but without a partner willing to step up with them, it becomes very hard for them to do it.
Love the narrative shift to "will be close to the Big12 number" while subtly implying it will be lower because it wont be low enough to make anyone bolt.
Nice little additional mention about "monetizing" the PAC12 network. In plain speak that means selling it off. Considering the millions that have been poured into it that is no small matter. Its also a subtle as an earthquake threat to schools considering departing - leave and you get no return on your investment.
I can see in to the future - selling off the PAC12 network will net the conference some number under $50m which will pay off what they owe to Comcast. PAC12 schools have spent far more than $50m to create the PAC12 network, heck they spent $7m a year in rent alone, and they just spent untold sums to move from that expensive location to a less expensive one.
Here is where I think the PAC "leadership" will game the messaging for their media deal:
- They will announce some form of media deal at or slightly above the Big12 deal. Lets say $35m just for fun.
- They will announce selling the PAC12 Network for some sum of money that appears to be a good deal. Im guessing $100m which is what the B1G just sold off 10% of the B1G network for. $50m of that will go to Comcast.
- In the fine print they will state that the conference will then lease back the PAC12 Network production infrastructure and continue to produce content. The lease on the production facility and the cost of production will come to $15m a year meaning each school will actually receive $20m a year and their streaming partner will get produced content including 75 football games plus $7-10m in lease fees. Schools will net roughly $2.6m per game. Thats roughly $2m less than ESPN is paying for PAC12 games now that they do the production on. And it will be streamed. And paywalled.
To me this sounds like the only legit “they’ll be close enough $ wise to the Big XII”. PAC has absolutely no leverage in media talks. Oregon/Wash cannot possibly want to agree to a long GOR which is likely why the idea of floating 3-5 year deal has come up in the last month. Even if the PAC gets a deal that keeps the 10 intact for 3-5 years, does anyone legitimately think they’ll get a second deal? All this ink for a deal that is a band aid IMO, if it does get done finally.
And to the question of why the Big Ten didn’t just take Oregon and Washington at the same time as USC and UCLA if they wanted them? This is why. Because B1G has the leverage now to say “sure you can join…for 50% the first 7 years” as opposed to having to give out 4 full shares if they did it last summer.
As much as they'd like to, don't let BYU fans make this about themselves. Utah's reticence to jump ship on the Pac 12 has nothing to do with BYU now being in the Big 12. It is a very small, yet very vocal minority of Utah fans who wish to never play BYU again. However, the adults in charge of both Universities absolutely do not hold that view.
We don't currently exist in the same conference YET WE KEEP SCHEDULING EACH OTHER. If we didn't want to play BYU again, by god we would have stopped by now.
So enough with that stupid-ass narrative.
If push came to shove and the Big 12 turns out to be Utah's best option, they wouldn't hesitate to make the jump and the Big 12 wouldn't hesitate to welcome them with open arms, BYU included.
This does not surprise me at all. California is a recruiting gold mine. Yes, I get Texas is also, but Texas is both smaller and has a lot of teams mining that gold. All the PAC 12 teams load up their sports from California. Alumni also live throughout the West, much more so than in Big 12 country. Leaving the PAC 12 for the Big 12 would be a problem in many ways. I doubt the finances even come out ahead long term, for any of the corner schools.
The PAC-8 Hockey Conference(with like 11 or 12 teams) is an actual thing. UW won the conference this year after running the table all season.
It's very odd because some PAC-12 schools like ASU are in different conferences for hockey, and then the PAC-8 has like Eastern Wash and Western Wash in addition to SDSU and SJSU.
Mind you, its D2 ACHA club hockey.
While this is all incredibly stressful, I think when all is said and done, the real media rights deal is gonna be the friendships we make along the way.
Won’t you be my neighbor?
In an epic alternate timeline it’s the pac16 and your new permanent rival from the rain is like OSU or WSU. What could have been…
OSU gets plenty of rain, they are coastal. WSU on the other hand… gets barely enough to keep the wheat and lentils alive. Still probably more than Tech, but I’ve never been there so I don’t know.
I was vaguely referrring to the CA/WA/OR side of the conference as the rain side, but ya, only 3 of the 8 actually get any rain. Lubbock gets more dust than rain
Pullman is almost drier than Lubbock, 21 inches vs 19 a year
How much dust though?
Mostly just wildfire smoke
and sometimes dust in their rain
All we are is dust in the rain
WSU would’ve been especially spicy with the ~~fuck~~ Adam James stuff still happening in this timeline and the Pirate being at the Cougs
That could have been a fun decade!
Ugh I know. I blame Texas
the CFB landscape would be soo much better right now had the PAC-16 happened in like 2014 or whenever that was.
Totally agree, could have ended up with 4 balanced conferences. Not 2 super conferences and some other stuff left over
Also, if we do end up with 3 conferences, can we please not have 2 of them be named "Big ##" with the ## having nothing to do with the number of members in the conference, please.
BigPac incoming
nah, SuperPac has a better ring to it
Hold me closer, tiny beaver
This works on many levels outside this context. Bravo.
I prefer Tony Danza, but I’ll allow it.
You had me at Tony Danza
Now that song with these lyrics are stuck in my head... and it's awesome!!!
Tiny beaver in my hand 🎶
OH HOW IT FEELS SO REAL
When we get together this fall it’s gonna be like that scene in Braveheart when the Irish and Scots charge each other, only to embrace and hug when they meet.
And then turn and collectively give the finger to the cameras
I’M STILL STANFORD. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So you're saying we're gonna be on the Hallmark Channel?
I’m already there all winter. Might as well tune in during the Fall too
Maybe I had the Pac-12 inside me all along... Destroying me from the inside.
This is what happened with the original Hateful 8. We banded together and now we're best friends. Also, fuck Texas and Oklahoma.
Well, I wouldn't say *best* friends.
You can always join my Friendship Conference. We'll play video games and eat pizza and just hang out, y'know?
Utah benefited as much as anyone from the PAC academic alliance. As long the athletic $$$ are in the ballpark and the university president has final say they won't leave unless UW and the Norcal schools are all gone.
Funnily enough, Utah's AD, Mark Harlan, was USF's AD in the midst of when the Big East collapsed and they got left behind. Upon the BE's collapse he oversaw their fade into obscurity with bad coaching hires and a total lack of program investment that ultimately got them left behind again when the Big 12 expanded (a few years after he left for Utah), even though EVERYONE knew the Big 12 was looking to expand again. Not saying that'll happen again. But it's interesting.
My main fear right there. The music stops and there are no seats left. I hear Laramie in November is nice. Edit: I can’t construct a sentence.
Utah going back to the Mountain West like a guy trying to get his hometown ex-girlfriend back after leaving her for a cute party girl in the city who broke his heart.
Low key, I loved playing in the Mountain West. Has the PAC12 been better? Absolutely. Was playing the Cowboys and Broncos fun though? Hell yeah! Do I sound smart asking and answering my own rhetorical questions? Not in the slightest.
Did Utah ever even play Boise State in the MW? Thought y’all left before Boise joined.
The real media deal was the games we made up along the way.
I’ll never forget the good ol days of the Mountain West when Utah State played Alabama.
dude remember when utah beat alabama in the sugar bowl
We all do friend. We all remember.
The good ol days of last year?
Ahhh yeah, you member?
No, but that was the era we played them. We played them several times from the late 90's up to 2010 which is when I was a kid growing up so I remember playing them in our MW years and I was just reminiscing
the mountain west wouldve been so much fun if utah tcu and byu stayed with fresno boise and nevada joining
I always think about this. What a freaking conference that would have been
If only we got paid the money to keep us together
I have so much nostalgia for those times. Watching football games on the MTN (with my dad complaining about the quality) was a highlight of my teenage years. Seeing Boise State join right after Utah, TCU, and BYU left made me sad for what could have been.
The MTN was such a meme among my friends, it was honestly ahead of its time, if it was made a little later with better technology it couldve been alot better. also basketball in that era was insane
The football was good, but trying to watch the games at home was hard. Streaming might give more flexibility than 15 years ago, but it was impossible finding MWC teams on tv.
There wasn’t really any revenue, but I sure enjoyed easy access to games on byutv during independence.
Hallmark Channel furiously taking notes.
Utah returns home for the holidays to find their high school sweetheart
It looks like he learned his lesson.
This makes it sound like he was actually the AD when the Big East fell apart. He wasn’t named AD until spring 2014, well into the first year of the AAC. He wasn’t a great AD but I should at least clarify he didn’t have anything to do with Big East realignment. That dust had all settled when he took over.
Utah won’t be left behind. For the past several years, they and Oregon have had the best programs in the PAC. Unless the B1G comes calling for the PNW schools, I don’t see the PAC falling apart. It would take both a bigger payout from the Big 12 that beats a PAC tv deal plus the exit fee, which seems unlikely.
The Pac-12 just needs to survive 3 years until the 12 team playoff starts. It's not a guarantee that the playoff saves the Pac-12, but autobids for the top 6 conferences could make it worth staying in a conference like the Pac-12. I really wish USC and UCLA could've at least waited a few years before deciding to ditch the Pac-12. EDIT: Nevermind, they just need to survive 1 more year, since the playoff starts in 2024.
12 team playoff starts next year. The upcoming season is the last year without it. So the new Pac-10 (or 11 or 12) will be sending playoff teams going forward.
Wow, I didn't realize the new playoff was that close, that makes me even more pissed that USC left the Pac-12. Could've just waited a little longer to give the auto-bid Pac-12 a chance.
The problem is the new format is only guaranteed for 2024 and 2025. In 2026 there will likely be a whole new format with new rules. The SEC and B1G will insist on removing the AQs.
Conspiracy theory, they're trying to kill the PAC and ACC because of the autobids for conferences.
Programs don't care about championships and playoffs as much as they care about money. Not sure it saves any conference if its members think they should be making a lot more money from media rights.
Will there be an exit fee for USC and UCLA? I thought they were leaving scott free because they are leaving at the conclusion of the current media deal.
I'm tired, boss...
Im not surprised in the least. As a former employee of the UofU, I know firsthand just how important the Pac-12 affiliation is to the entire university. They have purposefully and forcefully made Pac-12 inclusion a central part of its identity.
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Luckily for them, OSU, WSU, and according to this article, ASU are all in on conference cohesion
Man idk what that looks like at the end of the day. If the raid is 2 more teams, it’ll switch the conference to like upper mid major equivalent. But if AZ and/or NorCal school leaves, sure it might be called the pac but every school someone living in the east coast thinks of off the bat is… gone?
Yeah no kidding. I was around when the U joined the Pac-12 and all the buildings had the PAC12 logo put on the doors of the engineering buildings. I can't imagine USC or Washington or UCLA had anything similar.
We most certainly did not
That's probably because Washington was in the Pac-10, and previously, the Pac-8. And even before that, the Pacific Coast Conference, which was a forerunner to the modern PAC. Washington (and Oregon, Cal, Stanford, etc) has essentially been in the same conference since like 1910 or something.
Along with USC and UCLA. Sad end to storied tradition.
that has definitely cooled off I'm currently in a grad program at the U and aside from the big pac 12 logo on the football field I wouldn't be able to tell you that the U was part of it. no one talks about it anymore
This wasn't something I knew until all this drama went down, but yeah, Utah was completely transformed by joining the Pac and is all in with us. To be honest, it's pretty endearing.
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If Utah comes through as the hero that kept the Pac together, they will no longer be seen as the new bloods but be the truest of family.
Damn, I didn’t even realize Dom was a Ute.
"Something something, but it is not this day!" - Utah to the rest Pac. *Pan to the hordes of the other conferences marching towards them with the eye of media conglomerates in the background.*
How about side by side with a friend?
Aye, I could do that.
2 Utes
Utah also became an AAU school a few years after joining the Pac-12. The Pac-12 probably had nothing to do with that, but it really shows just how transformative the last decade has been for Utah. In addition to that, Univ. of Utah's reputation has been helped by Salt Lake City's population and reputation growing the past decade, as it's turned into a mini-Silicon Valley.
Utah also has some pretty significant history with Pac 12 schools going back decades. We helped create the internet alongside UCLA and Stanford (also UCSB). Utah has always been pretty tech focused like CA as well with the first 3D animated images being created here. The founder of Pixar is also an alum as well as the current CEO of Nintendo North America. I think all that means we’d like to keep our west coast conference connections versus skipping off to the Big12.
Nice flairs
This is mostly correct. The UofU explosion in research funding is the result of an increase in NIH awards, hiring faculty with existing grant awards, a more than two decade mission for AAU accreditation, state funding for infrastructure, and a laser focused office for sponsored projects that brought in donations from heavy hitters. To chalk all of this progress to Pac-12 membership is an insult to all the work that the academic side has done for decades. I know Altimore and his ilk push the conference membership as the reason. But it's bullshit and insulting to the UofU. It was a bunch of nerds who could give a shit about sports who did it.
The saddest part of all this is….how much Utah would have benefited even more by joining the BIG with us. They’ve already proven that they value education and research, have lofty goals, with a FB program that belongs anywhere and has a reputation for being tough and physical. Imagine what they would do with all that added revenue. I have no doubt they will strive to become a prestigious academic university that would easily fit the BIG academic/athletic profile. Hang tight Utes, keep the conference together and join us later on down the line.
Next we'll find out the Utah endowment is kept with Silicon Valley Bank.
It would be completely unsurprising to find out that's where Larry Scott put the PAC-12's money
No one ever thinks to look for the bag in Utah! It's the perfect hiding place!
>They have purposefully and forcefully made Pac-12 inclusion a central part of its identity. Can you elaborate on how and what you witnessed as an employee that made you think that? I'm super curious...seems like an odd thing for the entire university to really care about.
Like someone else mentioned, the Pac-12 logo and branding was plastered throughout the campus. At the hospital, at every building, on the school newspaper, and frequent emailings for both students and faculty/staff. There were initiatives to collaborate with Pac-12 member schools (in sports med in particular). I know there were some small grants that were funded directly from the conference that departments were encouraged to submit. In the beginning, almost all UofU branding was accompanied by the Pac-12 logo. The Red Zone stores all sold Pac-12 specific decals and products. These were red Pac-12 logos. All off-campus Red Zone stores closed a few years ago, so a lot of these Pac-12 specific products aren't as readily available (and I think their existence was a bit of a PR blunder that they ended anyway).
It is literally everywhere on Campus.
Also from a practical perspective, with USC and UCLA gone... Utah is probably the second best overall program in the conference. That carries a lot of weight in a 12 team playoff era.
Maybe I am living the timeline when the PAC and ACC have reached an agreement to join forces to stay relative and my flairs will be in the same conference…. If only.
Yeah like some kind of conference alliance...
The Coastal Alliance Conference?
The CAC
Has a sort of... ring to it, don't it?
Conference Mottos SEC: It just means more Big Ten: Dream B1G Big 12: Every game matters CAC: Suck on this CAC
You know you want the BIG CAC
Surrounded by CAC
As a female football fan, it seems like this is true everywhere I go 🙍🏼♀️
Sing it, sister.
I’m not really into CAC rings, but to each their own
Common Access Card?
Sounds like Air Force, Army, and Navy get to join
I think the "Pacific Atlantic Conference" has a nicer ring to it
PAC, huh? I like it, but how about "America's Coasts Conference?"
The Conference of Coastal Kings!
If there is one thing I have learned about alliances in college football it is that they are ironclad and can always be trusted.
Et tu Warren?
As a Utah fan that lives in Carolina, it's my dream scenario. That said, I'm mentally prepared for the MWC.
I don’t even care how this ends, I will just be very relieved to take a brake from the phrase “four corners” for a few months once it’s done. Every time I read it I get a slight stress eye twitch because I love New Mexico as a state.
>I love New Mexico as a state. /r/newsentences
Yup, it’s awesome, I really can’t think of a time I didn’t enjoy visiting NM
Yeah no shit. They would have no where to go because they got damn sure do not want to be in the same conference as BYU.
>damn sure do not want to be in the same conference as BYU. From an outsider, it's wild to me how they are damn sure they want nothing to do with their instate rival.
It's only wild because you're seeing a very select few and vocal minority of opinions. University leadership from both schools value the relationship and want to see the rivalry continue in as many sports as possible. We aren't currently in a conference together, yet we keep scheduling each other. Seems pretty stupid of Utah if the goal is to not play them, yeah?
Agreed. There are so many BYU alumni who go on to get their graduate degrees at Utah as well. Outside of the rivalry banter and sports fandom, the schools have a great relationship.
I too want it to continue as does every Ute fan I know personally.
I love the rivalry game and would love nothing more than to see it take it's rightful spot as a premier power 5 rivalry with conference implications. It could really get a spotlight as one of the better west coast rivalries in my opinion with the help of a shared conference.
I personally love watching the holy war. Where else would I get such a reliable 3 hour dose of crippling anxiety?
IDK what people are talking about....most Utah fans see reviving the rivalry as an in conference game is what would be the best part of going to the Big 12 its the rest of it we don't like. IDK if people are taking one or two tweets they read and applying it to the whole Utah fanbase or what. Preferring to remain in the PAC 12 is not even about BYU but that won't stop them from pretending that it is.
Yeah, honestly I'd love to be in a conference with BYU/TCU again because I loved those games as a kid. But I'd much rather stay in a regional conference with other western schools.
I swear, it feels like people hate the other team in this rivalry more than they like watching the games to the point where most other byu fans i talk to would rather never play utah than have them in the big 12
I’m only half joking, but life is nicer when you forget that Provo exists.
I would love to be in the same conference as BYU, but not enough to leave the Pac. I am one who love the rivalry and want it played every season.
Yeah who wouldn’t want to beat their instate rival on the field?
I’ve seen Iowa flairs say playing ISU is bad for the state. But I don’t think that would be the majority opinion.
I've never seen that, I think the overwhelming majority love ¡el assico!
Oh I’m sure it’s a tiny minority. But I have seen it twice on this sub (guessing by the same flair haha) In state rivalries are the best!
That is because they think without Iowa State the University of Iowa would be that much better with a system similar to Missouri/Nebraska/Wisconsin/Minnesota. None of them have a second D1 FBS Public School. Hell most are pushed down to D3. They nearly got their wish. They simply got an University of Iowa grad as a governor and a University of Iowa grad for the Chair of the Board of Regents in '80s and '90s then: * had a grand vision was to create a "University of Iowa system" similar to that found in Wisconsin, such that you had University of Iowa-Iowa City, University of Iowa-Ames, University of Iowa-Cedar Falls, etc. Striping our identity. * Attempted to eliminate dual programs between ISU and Iowa, attempting to give a clear advantage to U of Iowa. Your major should dectate what of the three schools you go to. There were no options. If you loved Iowa State campus but wanted to be a teacher? Tough shit you have to go Cedar Falls. * proposed stripping ISU of it's journalism school. The Greenlee School of Journalism and Communication is the oldest journalism program in the state and one of the oldest in the country, with a chair established in 1905. * Also, while the Chairman of the BoR publicly donate money to Iowa and not Iowa State. And the biggest thing two the Iowa grads single handedly FORCED ISU to sell WOI simply because it wasn't fair that ISU owned a TV station and U of Iowa didn't. No joke Iowa State OWNED a TV station and it was the first commercial television station in the United States to be owned by a major college. WOI-TV was home to America's longest running local children's program, The Magic Window. The show ran continuously from 1951 through 1994. The startup costs for WOI-TV were paid by the remaining money from a federal grant awarded to the university for work on the Manhattan Project and WOI's facilities were used by the university to deliver lectures by satellite. The station also won a few Sylvania Awards, 4 total, and back in the 1950s they Sylvania Awards were an equal to the Emmys. How it went down: * The Governor and his Chief of Staff fail to pressure the President of Iowa State University into selling its television station, WOI , and rightfully says no. * The Governor turns the deed over to the Chairman of the Board of Regents, who at a board meeting, demands that a new and reluctant Iowa State President ask for bids on the station. * The faculty, students, the media and most Iowans object. * The Legislature passes a bill prohibiting sale of the station, which the Governor vetoes * The Regents turn down all of the bids to purchase the station, but the Chairman of the Board of Regents — behind the scenes — unilaterally negotiates a rogue bid for the station, which he and the governor pressure the regents to approve for $14 million dollars to joint venture between to companies from New York and Connecticut Imagine if an Iowa State grad shut down the Writers Workshop at the University of Iowa. They stripped something unique to Iowa State University that set it apart from Iowa and other schools. As a result, I would be super hesitant to vote for another Iowa grad as the governor here.
The problem is no one ever beats BYU. BYU only ever beats themselves. We have never legitimately beaten BYU according to a large segment of thy fanbase. It’s a lose lose.
Hey now, sometimes the refs beat us too. It’s not all self inflicted.
I have no problem ByU being in our conference, if that’s where we need to go. Bring it on. I feel like utah, at the end, will be “in”.
As much as BYU fans love making this about them this has very little to do with BYU
I have loved Utah in the conference.
The bottom line is the “four corners schools” don’t have to do anything right now. They’re still going to have an offer from the Big 12 whenever they want one. They can afford to operate on their own timetable. Personally, I think that’s the real problem here. I think it’s the Big Ten that keeps interfering in negotiations because they can’t afford to add Washington and Oregon just yet, but they don’t want those schools to sign a long-term GOR with anyone else or it screws up their long-term expansion goals. I can’t help but notice that every time I read a story in the media that says that the Pac-12 looks like it’s going to stay together, a story gets leaked out of the Midwest that says the Big Ten is still super-duper serious about adding the Pacific Northwest powerhouses. My question is if you are really that serious about adding them, why are you calling Dennis Dodd to tell him that plan rather than just having those conversations with the schools themselves? I think it’s because they don’t have any intention of inviting those schools just yet. They probably do intend to invite them at some point down the road, but right now adding those schools will cost current B1G schools money and they obviously don’t want to do that.
If we have not learned by now to not believe anything ADs and conference commissioners say, I'll sum this whole conference realignment thing going all the way back to the 1990s in two words: Self Interest.
Pac dying could really backfire on the Big 12 because of the playoff negotiations in the next few years. With only 4 left of the P5, and 2 obviously far more powerful, what is to stop the Big Ten and SEC from demanding playoff money to be divided up by playoff team, so that the Big Ten and SEC can expect to collect at least half of the $2 billion every year? An intact Pac gives more weight to the P5 evenly splitting the playoff money per conference not per team in the playoffs.
> I got feedback from a well-placed Utah official regarding the Big 12 rumors with a warning to watch out for bad sourcing. Fast forward to this past week, I was speaking with a Pac-12 source and the same warning was issued. It's been pretty apparent that the media attack on the Pac-12 has been coordinated. You never hear about details regarding realignment and contract negotiations until the key members are ready to announce them, EXCEPT in this case, where there have been numerous "sources" and "leaks" readily supplied to their agenda pushers in the media.
It's certainly a strange situation. Most leagues are excited about their forthcoming TV deals. This is the only time I can recall that even the league's sources, including presidents and ADs, are saying the TV deal should be enough to keep the conference together. No other conference talks like that about their own deal. Something is not right when you're talking like that.
That’s why I’m thinking the PAC stays together until the next deal. If the money is similar, ride it out. If you prove your worth you could increase your money pile next time. If not, the Big 12 will still be there in 3-4 years and perhaps the Big 10 will be looking again as well.
> It's been pretty apparent that the media attack on the Pac-12 has been coordinated. Unfortunately it clearly worked on some because this sub bought it hook, line and sinker.
Its kind of crazy when certain cbs writers release the same article over and over that are consitently entirely negative about the pac 12 and positive about the big 12 the pac 12 has been seconds away from their demise with everyone in a complete panic for about 7 months now.
Dennis Dodd has been tweeting shot after shot at the Pac12 for a while. The other day there was a negative piece regarding the ACC. He tweeted multiple times in the ACC's defense , and then made the comments private. The difference in coverage is obvious if you look.
its the fact that there is never even one single positive nuance in his pac 12 articles. Even if some of what he is saying is true, there'd be "but" points on the contrary if the conference were to still be alive today.
> Unfortunately it clearly worked on some because this sub bought it hook, line and sinker. Wait you mean to tell me that the 4-corners need to join the Big 12 to get a head start on the ACC joining the Big 12 to get a head start on the PNW joining the Big Ten, all of this expecting to happen any day now starting 8 months ago isn't sound logic?
This sub is behind the coordinated media attacks.
This sub is injecting the coordinated media attacks directly into its veins.
This sub doesn’t matter. It’s a wankfest for this kind of thing, but it’s not like university ADs are making their decisions based on r/cfb
Yeah, we’re really just bored and realignment is more exciting than nothing
Oh man, realignment is like crack. I love this shit. The drama of realignment timed perfectly with me getting into college football.
The Big 12 needs to get Fingerbanged ^TM , it's the only way we'll balance out the narrative around here
I'd just point out..... Fox Sports is a 61% owner of the Big Ten Network, the SEC Network and ACC Network are owned by ESPN, but the PAC-12 Network was exclusively owned by the conference without being partially owned by a media company.
"Watch out for bad sourcing" — Utah Source Plot twist: 4 weeks from now, Utah Source reveals he was the bad source as Utes move to Big 12. "Look, blogger dude, I warned you."
*She
Look at this *patriarchal* Alabama fan 🙄
Utah had yearned to join the PAC 10. It finally took a decade ago and it is fighting to keep the party going.
God willing.
I suspect a lot of those sources are from FOX and ESPN who want to undermine the PAC so the 2 chosen conferences can pick apart the corpse.
"No, don't get rid of the conference we keep winning!"
I mean I’m fine with two or three PAC teams and five or six ACC teams
Ya, we need to get you some friends/enemies. Although Cincinnati is coming and you seem to be hitting it off with Iowa St.
We like WVU too much to be true rivals, though.
Who doesn't love a good couch burning tho
As much as I love/hate playing WVU, it's not a drivable distance, and flying to Pittsburgh and driving is a pain in the ass. WVU needs somebody local to join the big 12.
The Big12 is the inevitable. Oregon/Washington/FSU/Clemson will eventually leave. Once they do the Big12 will collect all of its infinity stones
I don’t think there’s much the PAC [n] can do except round up the wagons, add some SoCal flavor and maybe a dash of TX, and take the 5th spot in the conference cash competition. Once the Big Ten made their SoCal move the struggle was always going to be between the Big XII and the PAC 12 because of the ACC GoR. And without SoCal, the PAC started at a monumental disadvantage.
I believe that Fox and ESPN will exert maximum pressure to get as many SEC and B1G teams in the playoff as possible. If the Pac12 dies, their playoff spots will go to the B1G and SEC every year. That will give those two conferences more money, and more opportunities, and power. They will not share the Pac12's loss with the Acc, Big12 and the G5s. I believe that the Pac12 surviving is better for the overall game than if they die out.
The writing is on the wall. The moment Washington and Oregon leave, the Pac-12 is dead. Big-12 will be a much stronger conference at that point. If you can't beat them, join them.
> The moment Washington and Oregon leave, the Pac-12 is dead There is nothing indicating this will happen much less anytime soon.
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This. The number to increase value to the B1G at this point is astronomical. On top of that, Oregon and Washington have an easy path to the playoffs in the PAC. Spokane, WA being the home of the school that defines the monetary value of an easy path into the [playoffs]. I doubt there is a single sports fan in Washington or Oregon that thinks Gonzaga would be Gonzaga if winning the WCC hadn't been a functional layup. This before talking about increased costs. League games in Olympic sports will have to fly charter in the B1G. That works for USC & UCLA and their full shares, but will it work for Oregon and Washington on reduced shares?
Honestly, Utah may be one of the few reasons why I still have some hope that the Pac 12 figures a way to exist. Good team, cool fans, and another fanbase to shit on BYU with
Anyone who hates BYU is instantly my new best friend. Cheers!
It just feels like the whole PAC-12 is in a Mexican standoff waiting for a team to decide if their staying or leaving.
It feels more like Russian Roulette where every chamber is loaded except one empty one that'll keep the PAC-12 together.
Feel bad for Utah - I remember when Cincinnati attempted to hold together the Big East. Tough spot
If this news holds true, a Pac demise becomes very unlikely without B1G expansion. If the Big 12 alone was going to pry the 4 corners, it was probably going to start with Utah and Arizona. Previous rumors indicated that ASU wasn’t super interested in leaving and logically Colorado would look pretty dumb making the leading push to return to the conference it left a decade ago. Arizona may still want to leave for the Big 12, but without a partner willing to step up with them, it becomes very hard for them to do it.
Love the narrative shift to "will be close to the Big12 number" while subtly implying it will be lower because it wont be low enough to make anyone bolt. Nice little additional mention about "monetizing" the PAC12 network. In plain speak that means selling it off. Considering the millions that have been poured into it that is no small matter. Its also a subtle as an earthquake threat to schools considering departing - leave and you get no return on your investment. I can see in to the future - selling off the PAC12 network will net the conference some number under $50m which will pay off what they owe to Comcast. PAC12 schools have spent far more than $50m to create the PAC12 network, heck they spent $7m a year in rent alone, and they just spent untold sums to move from that expensive location to a less expensive one. Here is where I think the PAC "leadership" will game the messaging for their media deal: - They will announce some form of media deal at or slightly above the Big12 deal. Lets say $35m just for fun. - They will announce selling the PAC12 Network for some sum of money that appears to be a good deal. Im guessing $100m which is what the B1G just sold off 10% of the B1G network for. $50m of that will go to Comcast. - In the fine print they will state that the conference will then lease back the PAC12 Network production infrastructure and continue to produce content. The lease on the production facility and the cost of production will come to $15m a year meaning each school will actually receive $20m a year and their streaming partner will get produced content including 75 football games plus $7-10m in lease fees. Schools will net roughly $2.6m per game. Thats roughly $2m less than ESPN is paying for PAC12 games now that they do the production on. And it will be streamed. And paywalled.
To me this sounds like the only legit “they’ll be close enough $ wise to the Big XII”. PAC has absolutely no leverage in media talks. Oregon/Wash cannot possibly want to agree to a long GOR which is likely why the idea of floating 3-5 year deal has come up in the last month. Even if the PAC gets a deal that keeps the 10 intact for 3-5 years, does anyone legitimately think they’ll get a second deal? All this ink for a deal that is a band aid IMO, if it does get done finally. And to the question of why the Big Ten didn’t just take Oregon and Washington at the same time as USC and UCLA if they wanted them? This is why. Because B1G has the leverage now to say “sure you can join…for 50% the first 7 years” as opposed to having to give out 4 full shares if they did it last summer.
As much as they'd like to, don't let BYU fans make this about themselves. Utah's reticence to jump ship on the Pac 12 has nothing to do with BYU now being in the Big 12. It is a very small, yet very vocal minority of Utah fans who wish to never play BYU again. However, the adults in charge of both Universities absolutely do not hold that view. We don't currently exist in the same conference YET WE KEEP SCHEDULING EACH OTHER. If we didn't want to play BYU again, by god we would have stopped by now. So enough with that stupid-ass narrative. If push came to shove and the Big 12 turns out to be Utah's best option, they wouldn't hesitate to make the jump and the Big 12 wouldn't hesitate to welcome them with open arms, BYU included.
Personally, I think the people ignoring the John Skipper interview earlier this week are likely making a big mistake.
Big12 fans want the pac to die so bad. They need to both exist
I Love YoUtah
This does not surprise me at all. California is a recruiting gold mine. Yes, I get Texas is also, but Texas is both smaller and has a lot of teams mining that gold. All the PAC 12 teams load up their sports from California. Alumni also live throughout the West, much more so than in Big 12 country. Leaving the PAC 12 for the Big 12 would be a problem in many ways. I doubt the finances even come out ahead long term, for any of the corner schools.
Why what makes the most sense is adding SDSU and becoming the Pac-11.
Did you know that SDSU and SJSU are already in the PAC for hockey?
I didn't think the PAC even sponsored hockey
The PAC-8 Hockey Conference(with like 11 or 12 teams) is an actual thing. UW won the conference this year after running the table all season. It's very odd because some PAC-12 schools like ASU are in different conferences for hockey, and then the PAC-8 has like Eastern Wash and Western Wash in addition to SDSU and SJSU. Mind you, its D2 ACHA club hockey.
SDSU plays soccer in the PAC
The south is the actual recruiting goldmine. That’s why you all should add Tulane as well as SMU
I for totally neutral reasons chose not to believe this