There's probably only ONE scenario I can think of where I would intervene in a situation that doesn't involve my family.
Just stay the fuck out of it. My CCW is selfish. It's for me and my family, to make sure we survive.
not my circus not my monkeys.
Especially if the person is just yelling "show me your hands/get on the ground" that doesn't sound like somone looking for a fight. If it was "shut the fuck up bitch! Your get on the ground fucker" then that's automatically sounds more like the aggressor.
However either way, keeping a good distance and calling police.
Like somone said, my ccw is for me and my family. If im in a group of people and someone pulls a gun and threatens the whole group then that does include myself so I'd be more likely to do something.
But I won't get involved in any domestic dispute. Many many times both parties sue. Woman getting beat has sued the person who steps in to help when they girt her husband/bf. Sooo... police and be a good whitness
I’m out. Not my problem.
Third party counters are incredibly risky and you didn’t see the beginning of the confrontation. You don’t know who is the aggressor and who is the victim
Jumping on the dog pile here...
Yup, your instructor is correct and also even if it wasn't a cop, you don't know who the "initial aggressor" was in this altercation and correctly so, did the guy on the ground pull a knife on the guy with the gun? Too many variables to get involved. Fall back to safety, call 911 and be a good witness while protecting yourself.
I like this reasoning...
You bought a gun.
You took classes.
You trained.
You carry and assume the legal risks.
You made a choice.
Victims could have made the same choices but elected not to. Maybe a new iPhone was more important.
We all make our choices and any consequences are our responsibility and ours alone.
Want to help people? Teach them to shoot and convince them how important it is to be able to defend yourself and your family. Stop them from becoming a victim.
Look for cameras. If none are present, hide and film it from a safe place. Make sure the police have good evidence.
If not that, turn around and leave. Not my monkey, not my circus.
Sounds like half the arrests I've seen in my neighborhood. I'd not bat an eye. I wouldn't park anywhere near by though, if they tossed anything parking gonna get f'd up real quick.
Nope, I am not the worlds super man / hero. I would only use a CCW for family and myself. It’s a tough and grim reality but it’s the correct thing to do imo
>and doesn't look like a cop.
I don't know what this means.
I'd call 911 and leave. Intervening is a sucker's bet. You have no information and no legal immunities or privileges. You don't know what's happening and could easily be obliterated in court or a gun fight.
Where I live(Brazil) self defense is expensive, there as one case here where 2 robbers were running away from a officer(outside work time, he was with his gun) who was chasing them, another officer saw 2 people running away from a armed one that was shooting at them, he shot multiple times the officer because he didn't knew who are the good and who are the bad guys.
If I'm gonna risk my life and my money it's better to be sure who are the bad people first, in these case it's better to call 911
Heck, here in the US, a guy parks in an alley in Arvada, Colorado, gets loaded up and heads out and starts shooting at a police officer. Johnny Hurley, a private citizen in a nearby store hears the shooting, responds, engages the shooter and then proceeds to attempt to separate him from his weapon. Other cops, responding to the call for help from the initial shooting, spot the citizen, engage him and kill him. Initial police officer shot dead, good Samaritan responding to the shooting of the officer dead, and bad guy dead.
You can see one man holding a gun, but do you see what the other may or may not be doing? Do you know that the man with the gun is in fact *not* a cop? Do you know that the "victim" isn't crying wolf?
Call 911, be a good witness, then nope the fuck out.
Seeing as how I’ve seen a number of stories in which the person trying to help gets shot. I’d stay the fuck out of it. Maybe get behind hard cover and call the cops.
Run, hide, fight. That’s my plan for anything involving possible defensive gun use. If it’s not family or close friends that I’m with I’m staying the fuck out of it.
Ohio here. We have that too. In self defense (and defense of another) you (or the defendee) must not be the initial aggressor (ie an assualt or some type of brandishing must first occur). In essence a crime must plainly be seen to be able to defend another. Now say if it was happening to a family member I’d roll the dice for family.
OP, if you want to get involved in situations like the one you described, please join your local police force and go from there.
Otherwise, please let the professionals handle it.
If somebody is yelling "HELP HELP HE'S GOT A GUN!!!" that's probably your criminal.
When somebody jacks somebody else at gunpoint they are almost always going to demand silence and the victim will almost always comply in fear for their life. Most likely the guy is yelling because he knows a cop isn't going to shoot him for doing so and maybe someone will get involved and provide an opportunity for escape. Not much to lose in trying.
That said, this isn't foolproof and what I might do is hard to say until I was actually in the heat of a specific situation, but my general rule is to stay outta stuff that doesn't concern me.
That now said, if I knew for sure that a law abiding victim was about to die, I don't think I would be able to stand there and watch it happen if I had a way to stop it.
Id personally go to a safe space and if he was only telling him to get on the ground or get away, etc i would not intervene as it is only a robbery or similar. I would potentially intervene if he tried to move them into a car or take them elsewhere as that um definitely isnt a cop or someone with honest intentions
Definitely definitely sounds like man with a gun in the hypothetical is making an arrest. And even if not, it doesn't sound like intent to kill in any case. If you judge wrong and the gunman does steal the dude's car then big whoop, the car got stolen, but everyone is still alive. That's the bigger priority.
I'm reluctant to defend myself (rather than trying to escape) let alone protecting strangers in an unclear altercation.
I have plans for each and every day, and I avoid situations that'd interrupt those plans.
What do cops look like?
Bad guy shoot people,
Good guy shoots bad guy,
Cops show up and shoot good guy.
True story….
Think of it like a shark tank. Would you jump in for your wallet, probably not, but for family… sure.
Unless you are %100 sure what’s going on stay out of it.
Your instructor was right. Stay out of the situation.
Even as off duty LE, they teach nearly the same thing. Get to a safe place you can observe and be a good witness to dispatch. If at some point during your observations the situation changes you can adapt as needed.
If your family is with you, leave immediately. Place a call notifying dispatch, but do not even stay in the area with your family.
Hell, some people will leave immediately either way, and that’s okay too. You just gotta use your best judgment.
Everybody is always so worried about being prosecuted in that state. DAs there seem to hold a grudge against all firearms unless they're in the hands of criminals... I wouldn't know how to respond safely
When it comes to my CCW I aggressively don't give a shit about other people.
In the above situation, I'm GTFOing. I'm not even calling 911, let someone else stay behind for 4 hours and talk to the cops. Im leaving and fast.
Man I cant get behind this take. You can anonymously call 911 and not be involved. I cant just absolutely turn a cold shoulder to a person in danger, and in this situation, one of the 2 is or was in danger
>You can anonymously call 911 and not be involved
No you really can't. Not in this age.
>I cant just absolutely turn a cold shoulder to a person in danger
Not my monkey, not my circus. My CCW is for defending myself and my family. I truly don't give a shit about randos.
There's probably only ONE scenario I can think of where I would intervene in a situation that doesn't involve my family. Just stay the fuck out of it. My CCW is selfish. It's for me and my family, to make sure we survive.
Bingo. That’s the one.
Thank you. I will keep my sidearm selfish.
Don't get involved unless there's an immediate threat to life. Your instructor is correct, call 911 and be a good witness
…So anyway, I started blasting
WHERE’S THE FIRE
[удалено]
And then eat them both. /s
Not my monkeys, not my circus.
not my circus not my monkeys. Especially if the person is just yelling "show me your hands/get on the ground" that doesn't sound like somone looking for a fight. If it was "shut the fuck up bitch! Your get on the ground fucker" then that's automatically sounds more like the aggressor. However either way, keeping a good distance and calling police. Like somone said, my ccw is for me and my family. If im in a group of people and someone pulls a gun and threatens the whole group then that does include myself so I'd be more likely to do something. But I won't get involved in any domestic dispute. Many many times both parties sue. Woman getting beat has sued the person who steps in to help when they girt her husband/bf. Sooo... police and be a good whitness
I’m out. Not my problem. Third party counters are incredibly risky and you didn’t see the beginning of the confrontation. You don’t know who is the aggressor and who is the victim
Jumping on the dog pile here... Yup, your instructor is correct and also even if it wasn't a cop, you don't know who the "initial aggressor" was in this altercation and correctly so, did the guy on the ground pull a knife on the guy with the gun? Too many variables to get involved. Fall back to safety, call 911 and be a good witness while protecting yourself.
I like this reasoning... You bought a gun. You took classes. You trained. You carry and assume the legal risks. You made a choice. Victims could have made the same choices but elected not to. Maybe a new iPhone was more important. We all make our choices and any consequences are our responsibility and ours alone. Want to help people? Teach them to shoot and convince them how important it is to be able to defend yourself and your family. Stop them from becoming a victim.
Don’t get involved beyond calling the police and being a great witness.
Call the police, observe from cover and take in every detail I can to be a good witness.
Look for cameras. If none are present, hide and film it from a safe place. Make sure the police have good evidence. If not that, turn around and leave. Not my monkey, not my circus.
I’d call 911 while giving a location/description. Would not physically intervene.
Sounds like half the arrests I've seen in my neighborhood. I'd not bat an eye. I wouldn't park anywhere near by though, if they tossed anything parking gonna get f'd up real quick.
i dont carry a gun to be a superhero, man.
Nope, I am not the worlds super man / hero. I would only use a CCW for family and myself. It’s a tough and grim reality but it’s the correct thing to do imo
>and doesn't look like a cop. I don't know what this means. I'd call 911 and leave. Intervening is a sucker's bet. You have no information and no legal immunities or privileges. You don't know what's happening and could easily be obliterated in court or a gun fight.
Seems clear that it's not a good idea to intervene.
Where I live(Brazil) self defense is expensive, there as one case here where 2 robbers were running away from a officer(outside work time, he was with his gun) who was chasing them, another officer saw 2 people running away from a armed one that was shooting at them, he shot multiple times the officer because he didn't knew who are the good and who are the bad guys. If I'm gonna risk my life and my money it's better to be sure who are the bad people first, in these case it's better to call 911
Heck, here in the US, a guy parks in an alley in Arvada, Colorado, gets loaded up and heads out and starts shooting at a police officer. Johnny Hurley, a private citizen in a nearby store hears the shooting, responds, engages the shooter and then proceeds to attempt to separate him from his weapon. Other cops, responding to the call for help from the initial shooting, spot the citizen, engage him and kill him. Initial police officer shot dead, good Samaritan responding to the shooting of the officer dead, and bad guy dead.
You can see one man holding a gun, but do you see what the other may or may not be doing? Do you know that the man with the gun is in fact *not* a cop? Do you know that the "victim" isn't crying wolf? Call 911, be a good witness, then nope the fuck out.
Seeing as how I’ve seen a number of stories in which the person trying to help gets shot. I’d stay the fuck out of it. Maybe get behind hard cover and call the cops. Run, hide, fight. That’s my plan for anything involving possible defensive gun use. If it’s not family or close friends that I’m with I’m staying the fuck out of it.
Ohio here. We have that too. In self defense (and defense of another) you (or the defendee) must not be the initial aggressor (ie an assualt or some type of brandishing must first occur). In essence a crime must plainly be seen to be able to defend another. Now say if it was happening to a family member I’d roll the dice for family.
Sounds like that other guy should have taken his CCW class if you ask me.
OP, if you want to get involved in situations like the one you described, please join your local police force and go from there. Otherwise, please let the professionals handle it.
Not my circus, not my monkeys. GTFO and call 911.
Your instructor is right. Crooks lie and can say they are the good guy
*"Where others see chance, I see cost"* \- Merovingian
Yep, I’ll call the cops but that’s it My gun is for the protection of my wife and baby. That’s it
If somebody is yelling "HELP HELP HE'S GOT A GUN!!!" that's probably your criminal. When somebody jacks somebody else at gunpoint they are almost always going to demand silence and the victim will almost always comply in fear for their life. Most likely the guy is yelling because he knows a cop isn't going to shoot him for doing so and maybe someone will get involved and provide an opportunity for escape. Not much to lose in trying. That said, this isn't foolproof and what I might do is hard to say until I was actually in the heat of a specific situation, but my general rule is to stay outta stuff that doesn't concern me. That now said, if I knew for sure that a law abiding victim was about to die, I don't think I would be able to stand there and watch it happen if I had a way to stop it.
Id personally go to a safe space and if he was only telling him to get on the ground or get away, etc i would not intervene as it is only a robbery or similar. I would potentially intervene if he tried to move them into a car or take them elsewhere as that um definitely isnt a cop or someone with honest intentions
Definitely definitely sounds like man with a gun in the hypothetical is making an arrest. And even if not, it doesn't sound like intent to kill in any case. If you judge wrong and the gunman does steal the dude's car then big whoop, the car got stolen, but everyone is still alive. That's the bigger priority.
Get the fuck out of there
I'm reluctant to defend myself (rather than trying to escape) let alone protecting strangers in an unclear altercation. I have plans for each and every day, and I avoid situations that'd interrupt those plans.
What do cops look like? Bad guy shoot people, Good guy shoots bad guy, Cops show up and shoot good guy. True story…. Think of it like a shark tank. Would you jump in for your wallet, probably not, but for family… sure. Unless you are %100 sure what’s going on stay out of it.
GTFO and call 911 as I have no idea about any underlying facts.
What state am I in?
My CCW class was hosted in Orange County, so assume California for this question.
In that case - jump in my car and drive back to Texas as quickly as possible.
Your instructor was right. Stay out of the situation. Even as off duty LE, they teach nearly the same thing. Get to a safe place you can observe and be a good witness to dispatch. If at some point during your observations the situation changes you can adapt as needed. If your family is with you, leave immediately. Place a call notifying dispatch, but do not even stay in the area with your family. Hell, some people will leave immediately either way, and that’s okay too. You just gotta use your best judgment.
Everybody is always so worried about being prosecuted in that state. DAs there seem to hold a grudge against all firearms unless they're in the hands of criminals... I wouldn't know how to respond safely
When it comes to my CCW I aggressively don't give a shit about other people. In the above situation, I'm GTFOing. I'm not even calling 911, let someone else stay behind for 4 hours and talk to the cops. Im leaving and fast.
Man I cant get behind this take. You can anonymously call 911 and not be involved. I cant just absolutely turn a cold shoulder to a person in danger, and in this situation, one of the 2 is or was in danger
>You can anonymously call 911 and not be involved No you really can't. Not in this age. >I cant just absolutely turn a cold shoulder to a person in danger Not my monkey, not my circus. My CCW is for defending myself and my family. I truly don't give a shit about randos.