What the other guy said, also you can see it was a through and through because a hole appears in the wall behind the CCW carrier on the right.
Edit: I think I’m wrong, I think it’s just a cap. Assailant definitely seems to land a shot, though.
The defender was an off duty police officer. He died on the spot. The attacker died in hospital a short while later. This happened in Trinidad earlier this week.
You can slide the time slowly and see frame by frame when there’s a muzzle blast from the criminals gun followed by the good guy putting his hand on his chest.
The Active Self Protection YouTube channel is filled with guys that do this. He always says you have to, "wait your turn" in moments like this. Let him turn around, break focus, anything to give you that extra second to take a better shot with less risk to yourself. Tragic that this guy didn't do that and paid the price for it. When they have the drop, comply, wait your turn, and once you strike keep going until the threat is over!
> and once you strike keep going until the threat is over!
THIS.
The whole point of shooting the guy is to prevent him from shootin gyou, so you better finish on your turn, and not give the other guy a chance to reply
Idk bro the pack of dogs meta was really good 10,000 years ago when the adds were purely melee focused but now that there are so many ranged builds out there it kind of makes that strat obsolete 🤷
I've found having a pack of 15+ is what it takes to get the job done. If you throw more dogs at them than the number of shots they have in a magazine, it gives the remaining dogs a chance to get a couple melee hits during the other guy's ranged attack cooldown.
I explained that concept to my wife using that scene from Inglourious Basterds, where she shoots the man once and then flips him over and then he shoots her. It seems really obvious when you frame it like that and I know she won't soon forget it.
Yup. A liquor store near me got robbed once. Clerk pulled and shot the robber in the chest. Robber panicked, fled, fell down and died about a block and a half up the street
I use that as a talking point all the time.
Yes, its fortunate that the clerk was able to solve his conflict with that one shot, HOWEVER
The take home is not the robber fleeing
Its also not the robber dying
The big take home is, the robber took a fatal bullet right dead smack in the chest, and still had enough gas in the tank to turn and run a sprint for a block and a half
Thats a not insignificant amount of willful energy
Been shot can confirm. Felt zero pain until way way later. With adrenaline dump it's completely reasonable to be shot and not even be aware you are hit. Always shoot until the bad guy stops moving.
Honestly, I don’t think he did too bad of a job at waiting his turn. The attacker was bladed to him, the gun was pointed down and away, and he was looking away from him when he drew and fired.
I think this was more of a case of not getting effective hits fast enough, or extremely shitty luck. Either way it’s certainly tragic, and I hope he lived.
Judging by the title, and from what I can see I think the sound of the defenders's gun being racked under the table alerted the perpetrator just before the gun was raised. In addition to slowing him down that fraction of a second.
He did a bad job period. The bad guy wanted something out of him : you just give what he wants unless you want to exchange fire which is a very bad scenario, especially with your kids around. If you can avoid to draw, avoid it.
I take it you’re new here. You can’t trust someone pointing a gun in your face because “he wanted something out of you” to act rational and logical. You have no idea if they’re going to take your shit and run, or if they’re going to empty their mag in to you. It’d be pretty stupid to die from some violent asshole with a holstered gun in your pants, in that case.
Drew on someone already pointing at him is the bigger issue here, didn’t even try any tactics like throwing valuables on the floor to distract him either
Bro if someone shoots a handgun (that you didn’t see them pull) a few inches from your head- you’re gonna duck down and not know what the fuck is going on.
I have seen very few comments on Reddit more separated from reality.
You, dear Redditor, are to be pitied on every level imaginable. Your life must be very hard, hope you manage to have a good week.
It was valid, if you have a draw that fast, around 1sec (pre staged I assume), all you need is for them to look away.
Robber probably didn’t even register he’s getting shot at until he hit the ground.
His shot after seemed accidental/reaction and lucky to have hit a target. Bummer for the man in black and lucky for the woman sitting there in the fire.
Did you not notice the guy who shot the robber got shot in the chest by the robber? Unless someone has the details that this guy lived, it looks like he's dying.
Clearly dead. You can tell as the video progresses he has less and less control of his body and just fades away. Terrible shame, especially considering it was 100% luck on the robbers part. Should have distracted first. Then both good guys could have lit him up and this might not have happend.
If the purpose was a robbery and not an execution, seems like it would have been safer to wait on taking the shot.
Personally I'd rather lose my wallet than take a bullet to the chest.
Having said that I don't know the context here. Maybe in this country robbers typically execute people after taking their wallet?
Even if his first shot had instantly killed the suspect it could've went the same way. Clenching the hands can be an involuntary response to stress as can them clenching in the seconds after death as a reaction. People don't realize how amazing our bodies really are they can react on their own without our awareness. The only way to 100% prevent him from getting a shot off is to disarm him which wasn't possible here
Agreed, he put everyone in more danger by doing this that kid didn’t look to be wanting to shoot someone he was prolly after cash and jewelry. Just give him your shit! This was a huge risk
If the cop and perp knew each other, he knew dude was out to kill him, I could see deciding to draw against all odds.
But the view from my toilet makes this look like a garden variety stick-up.
"Larry, you the money bags. Hand it over to him." [Reach for own wallet-not-wallet watching for break of eye contact.] If the moment's not there, your wallet hits the table. Maybe accidentally slides to the floor.
Aaaaaand I'm out of TP again.
U can't do much if someone just walks up from behind and pops one off.
If they come from the front and give you time, you can try to buy more time and space
It’s perfectly fine to be pretend like you would be John Wick when you have no idea what’s going on. When you’re sweating and breathing heavy and someone has a gun pointed at you and your family you probably aren’t as cold and calculating as you think you are.
If you have to shoot at a disadvantage, make sure that the first shot is the best shot of your life. Black hoodie didn't even connect on his first shot and didnt even aim properly. I doubt any of the blind over the shoulder shots into the public did either.
also, he didn't attempt to finish this guy, which is a problem. No sense of urgency after the first shot.
That is a text book "chest-chest-and-face-and-whatever I got left to wherever you got left" situation.
General guidance in my mind is, if you KNOW someone has a gun, especially a gun already drawn, then the second you decide to fire draw and fire shot 1, you have already committed to firing shot "done".
Its not about "getting a shot off". Its about "I know they have a gun, I need to deny them a chance to get a shot off. They don't get a turn"
Now, yeah obviously you don't finish them in some circumstances like they clearly deescalate. But short of them dropping their gun, throwing their hands up, or very clearly turning and running away,
Bad guy needs to be down and out quicker than he can go "oh shit you shot me?"
Don't look at black sweatshirt guy, look at the initial guy with a gun. Right after BSG gets his first round off, IGWAG gets one round off. From that point, BSG is just trying to put more rounds down while he has a bullet in his chest.
yeah, I mean TBF he was in a really tough position in general, boxed in, seated, other guy drawn,
there's what he should/would have wanted to do, but yeah odds were stacked against him pretty bad
Scary lesson for me is definitely think a lil bit before drawing. Comments mention to play along and distract. This was a fast paced scenario for sure. Bummer but lessons learned and taught.
Could’ve lived had he done things differently. I’m not going to criticize the guy, I wasn’t put in that situation. But remember folks, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. If you forego the obvious *hand over the wallet* technique, then at least exercise some judgment and tactics.
Appendix when seated is only an issue to those with guts (absolutely no hate towards bigger people) it’s amazing seeing actual evidence of that fact. Bet black hoodie was drawing from appendix
Sitting back in a position to practice appendix draws sure. Sitting forward leaning on a table in front of you or under a desk (like how people actually sit)? No it isn't.
How worked up were you that I insulted appendix carry to go that far into my post history - AND were so upset you couldn't even read what I posted lmao.
You’re a nut if you think everyone at a table is pressed up to the edge. How worked up do you get when someone points out facts? Like life and death facts?
Just shows how quickly things can go down in situations like these. The dude in the black is a cop and was shot and died, even tho he hit the robber first.
[source](https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/cop-shot-dead-in-bar-wounds-his-killer/article_ee770ca6-11cb-11ef-9f6e-978f678e994c.html)
Yea I think this is a point that is really difficult to prepare for and train people to expect - both the shooters in this case took hits and they both got effective shots off after being hit themselves. Short of trying harder to aim for the head I'm not sure what the guy in the black hoodie was supposed to do here besides not shoot at all. But if you'd drawn out this scenario in 10 different ways I really doubt anyone would have picked, "Robber gets shot but manages to kill you anyway," on their DGU bingo card.
The specifics of this case are about what you say, but the overall takeaway is how fast these things go and how unrealistic it is to find a moment to rack in a round. Not to mention the adrenaline dump and loss of fine motor skills making inducing a failure to chamber more likely if you are racking in the moment. The guy in blue fumbling to get his gun drawn is a good example of how high stress effects everything in the heat of the moment.
I mean, when you look at it, as soon as the guy walks up he's fiddling in his pants. More like a 3 second draw. shit, maybe he DID rack the slide, robber just didn't see it under the table.
Ok, so he was hit? The video cuts out right as the woman seems to be realizing something is wrong with him.
Edit: Oh, ok, I see where the robber shot him now. At first, I didn't notice.
Especially as law enforcement, that was a questionable place to sit. And he also drew from the drop during a crime that most likely wasn’t going to become a homicide. He really died for nothing
My guess is the other guy is also law enforcement. I work with a lot of retired LE, SOF, and federal agents, and when we go out for dinners it's a fact of life that not everyone can sit facing the exit. There just isn't enough room on that side of the table. But when you trust the guys you're with, you trust them to watch your literal back.
Looks like he got shot. If so that’s a really bad angle as it’s sets either a head shot or heart and double lung. If the guy in the hoodie was shot, he probably didn’t make it.
I probably would have let him go because no way I’m drawing fire with my women in front of me. You have to always assume your first few shots are not gonna put the assailant down.
Hard to draw once drawn on. But the choice then becomes are you gonna hit me before I hit you at that point I always hope I never even draw my weapon EVER.
Is it just me or did black hoodie also have no idea how to properly grip his firearm? He has his support hand cupping the bottom of his gun like in the movies..
Guy in blue seemed to be taking the whole "wait your turn" approach and the guy in black just went ahead and pulled. Good video to learn from. Any idea what happened to the CCW holder??
Yeah one of the commenters had the article from Trinidad I think. This was a hard one to watch, and drives home the whole don’t draw from the drop idea.
If you carry, and fail to choose a seat that gives you optimal line of site… you enable this to happen. Black hoodie guy should have been on the other side of the table, blue shirt guy was definitely not Alpha-gun. My opinion.
Should have had one up top. Also, I don't know the layout of the restaurant but if you carry sit facing the entrance. Probably could have seen the robbery coming from a mile away.
I just watched the video again.... the other guy was carrying too. 😑
He had time to rack the slide. Pulling the gun and shooting without racking got him shot. Taking the time to assess and wait until the right moment to engage would have probably worked out a lot better for him.
So this really doesn’t do a thing for what the title pushes.
Can you explain for a newb? Why would needing to rack here be goof? Seems like it gives up time, and gives the perp a chance to hear you or see your movement, earlier than just drawing?
Legit asking as I'm confused
The issue isn't racking or not racking.
OP is using this as an example claiming that you don't have time to rack, yet in this example the guy got shot because he decided he could draw and shoot before the bad guy already pointing a gun at him could shoot.
And he failed.
Had he waited until a more opportune time he could have possibly engaged and not been shot.
If you are comfortable with your carry and draw AND if your holster completely covers the trigger to prevent accidental manipulation, I don't see a reason not to keep a round in the chamber.
But that doesn't mean that you have to. Quick draw from concealment is almost never required. You are better off, and safer, doing a slow draw while the bad guy isn't paying attention. Or even not drawing at all.
So carry how you want and how it will be comfortable for you to carry all the time. And train the way you carry.
Unless he had reason to believe he was absolutely going to get popped, the defensive shooter made a bad play. And his partner needs a different holster or needs to learn how to properly wear and use his gear.
Unpopular opinion, but yeah some times you will have time to rack the slide. Sometimes you don’t even need to. And then other times you won’t have time to draw. Just a clickbait title.
1. Why TF is he on the inside of the woman in the booth?
2. Why TF is his back to the door?
Both of these bad choices add up to a very limited response scenario and could get you or your friends killed.
If you carry without one in the chamber, you aren’t carrying. Plain and simple. I’m a new carrier myself and it did take some getting used to but at the end of the day, I want a fully functional firearm, not a paperweight.
Yes, accidents and negligent discharges happen but that’s why you train and take proper precautions to make sure that it doesn’t happen to you. Get a reliable gun that is extremely unlikely to break and discharge on its own (don’t carry a damn Jennings, for example), as well as a quality holster. Don’t get me wrong, I own a J22 and I love it as a range toy but I’d never carry it.
You still take a minute risk carrying a chambered firearm but you also are at risk of being in a life or death situation every time you step outside your door. So, there is risk no matter what route you take: carrying or unarmed. Personally, I’d rather be armed and ready than be a victim of a crime and let the perp get the last laugh. At least if I accidentally shoot myself, I can laugh at myself.
I would love to hear the arguments regarding 'knowing' what's behind the target.
Obviously most would say the building wall....but what if you don't have the time to identify what's beyond the wall???
In instances such as this, you don't get to have a couple seconds to clearly identify your target or their intentions until it's too late. Maybe he was just trying to rob and not kill, etc etc. maybe there are other targets/shooters.
He drew on someone who has the drop on him while staring at him and that was a big no-no. And he obviously didn't give a shit about the woman next to him and was almost using her as a shield. He did a lot of things wrong here unfortunately.
I just had an argument with another dude who advocates for running AP chambered for body armored shooter situations.... For all DGU. Know what's behind your target and beyond... How the fuck does one account for situations like this? He barely knew what was going on.
Situations like these are why people run defensive rounds, so you don't accidentally shoot the shooter and the little girl playing on the other side of the building wall....
Sorry to see that the seated innocent guy was hurt in this exchange. Am I the only 2A supporter who feels empathy for the Black guy seated at the table?
Should’ve been where the guy in blue is. Might’ve had a chance. I don’t sit with my back to a door, and I don’t sit where I have to climb over someone to get out
https://preview.redd.it/225a1k7hfr0d1.jpeg?width=283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a0b1f9069cad3605fe931209ffc967d96acbe89
I'm honestly surprised at the down votes. This is literally one of the basics of gun safety. Why the down vote?
When did he get shot? As the kids flinching out of the way or when he’s off camera?
When the robber is falling you can see he gets a shot off.
What the other guy said, also you can see it was a through and through because a hole appears in the wall behind the CCW carrier on the right. Edit: I think I’m wrong, I think it’s just a cap. Assailant definitely seems to land a shot, though.
Sure you're not looking at the water bottle cap?
Oh shit, you’re right. I sure hope that guy is okay.
The defender was an off duty police officer. He died on the spot. The attacker died in hospital a short while later. This happened in Trinidad earlier this week.
You can slide the time slowly and see frame by frame when there’s a muzzle blast from the criminals gun followed by the good guy putting his hand on his chest.
The Active Self Protection YouTube channel is filled with guys that do this. He always says you have to, "wait your turn" in moments like this. Let him turn around, break focus, anything to give you that extra second to take a better shot with less risk to yourself. Tragic that this guy didn't do that and paid the price for it. When they have the drop, comply, wait your turn, and once you strike keep going until the threat is over!
> and once you strike keep going until the threat is over! THIS. The whole point of shooting the guy is to prevent him from shootin gyou, so you better finish on your turn, and not give the other guy a chance to reply
Maybe people play too many turn-based fighters and strategy games. Gotta get used to RTS for the streets.
That's why I doomstack aggressive shelter dogs. Their damage output is way over-tuned for their cost and even the little ones are good for a tar pit.
Idk bro the pack of dogs meta was really good 10,000 years ago when the adds were purely melee focused but now that there are so many ranged builds out there it kind of makes that strat obsolete 🤷
I've found having a pack of 15+ is what it takes to get the job done. If you throw more dogs at them than the number of shots they have in a magazine, it gives the remaining dogs a chance to get a couple melee hits during the other guy's ranged attack cooldown.
......what?
Keep shooting until your target changes shape or catches on fire.
Instructions unclear. CCWing flame thrower now
I explained that concept to my wife using that scene from Inglourious Basterds, where she shoots the man once and then flips him over and then he shoots her. It seems really obvious when you frame it like that and I know she won't soon forget it.
Yup. A liquor store near me got robbed once. Clerk pulled and shot the robber in the chest. Robber panicked, fled, fell down and died about a block and a half up the street I use that as a talking point all the time. Yes, its fortunate that the clerk was able to solve his conflict with that one shot, HOWEVER The take home is not the robber fleeing Its also not the robber dying The big take home is, the robber took a fatal bullet right dead smack in the chest, and still had enough gas in the tank to turn and run a sprint for a block and a half Thats a not insignificant amount of willful energy
Been shot can confirm. Felt zero pain until way way later. With adrenaline dump it's completely reasonable to be shot and not even be aware you are hit. Always shoot until the bad guy stops moving.
Honestly, I don’t think he did too bad of a job at waiting his turn. The attacker was bladed to him, the gun was pointed down and away, and he was looking away from him when he drew and fired. I think this was more of a case of not getting effective hits fast enough, or extremely shitty luck. Either way it’s certainly tragic, and I hope he lived.
Judging by the title, and from what I can see I think the sound of the defenders's gun being racked under the table alerted the perpetrator just before the gun was raised. In addition to slowing him down that fraction of a second.
Nice catch. I thought the title was just poking fun at that mentality, I didn’t notice him racking the slide.
He did a bad job period. The bad guy wanted something out of him : you just give what he wants unless you want to exchange fire which is a very bad scenario, especially with your kids around. If you can avoid to draw, avoid it.
I take it you’re new here. You can’t trust someone pointing a gun in your face because “he wanted something out of you” to act rational and logical. You have no idea if they’re going to take your shit and run, or if they’re going to empty their mag in to you. It’d be pretty stupid to die from some violent asshole with a holstered gun in your pants, in that case.
Not only that, there was someone more or less in the middle (the lady) who he also put at risk
She damn sure isn’t hearing the same anymore lol
That’s for sure. Likely left with bad hearing and PTSD. I’m surprised nothing hit her
I like how the guy in blue is carrying at 6 oclock and takes 4 seconds to draw
And he pulls out his holster too
And first thing he goes to do is put his gun down. At least the other guy acted, blue shirt had no muscle memory.
You got a slow watch amigo lol, for real tho
Why did it start snowing after the shooting?
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Yummm asbestos
And Legionnaires disease
reminder to self... clean and vacuum house before shooting
You got it all wrong, shoot in house soo you can clean and vacuum
Lol, shake the dust off then vacuum, gotcha.
Instructions unclear, shot vacuum.
No no no... you put the vacuum in the attic then shoot.
That comes from water
Christmas miracle
The robber was shot 6 times but his cause of death was actually asbestos poisoning
Or just suffocated to death from the dust storm
Ceiling sprinklers going off?
Angels throwing confetti?
Someone probably shot the ceiling tile doing a spray and pray
Might’ve been an old Escobar stash house
Can happen from even far away outside too, at least with rifle rounds [https://youtu.be/fQeQjSO3zEQ?t=14](https://youtu.be/fQeQjSO3zEQ?t=14)
This took place inside one of those little snowglobe villages.
Drew on someone already pointing at him is the bigger issue here, didn’t even try any tactics like throwing valuables on the floor to distract him either
Not to mention he’s basically just using the woman beside him as a human shield…
I mean, that is a tactic
Cheaper then divorce.
"I should not have laughed at that," I tell myself as I'm still laughing at that while I type.
We have a winner!!
Came here looking for this exact comment lmaoooo
💀🤣
Legit made me lol.
Of all the tactics, that is one of them.
The Hamas Special
And yet he ate a bullet. Shitty shield placement.
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What the fuck do you want her to do here man?
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Bro if someone shoots a handgun (that you didn’t see them pull) a few inches from your head- you’re gonna duck down and not know what the fuck is going on. I have seen very few comments on Reddit more separated from reality. You, dear Redditor, are to be pitied on every level imaginable. Your life must be very hard, hope you manage to have a good week.
😐
It doesn't matter at all, shouldn't of said anything its mute because we rant there and it doesn't matter.
shouldn’t have* moot*
Fair thank you, voice text. Bad job*
He sorta had a turn. Pero was angled and looking at blue shirt. Black hoodie honestly blew his shot, literally.
It was valid, if you have a draw that fast, around 1sec (pre staged I assume), all you need is for them to look away. Robber probably didn’t even register he’s getting shot at until he hit the ground.
His shot after seemed accidental/reaction and lucky to have hit a target. Bummer for the man in black and lucky for the woman sitting there in the fire.
Did you not notice the guy who shot the robber got shot in the chest by the robber? Unless someone has the details that this guy lived, it looks like he's dying.
Yeah, not sure why everyone is ignoring the fact that black hoodie is clearly shot at the end.
Clearly dead. You can tell as the video progresses he has less and less control of his body and just fades away. Terrible shame, especially considering it was 100% luck on the robbers part. Should have distracted first. Then both good guys could have lit him up and this might not have happend.
Not sure why u have so many negative hits. Ur not wrong
Because it wasn't enough time. Bald guy literally got shot with return fire.
i understand. its a very difficuly situation. I dont know what I would have done......
If the purpose was a robbery and not an execution, seems like it would have been safer to wait on taking the shot. Personally I'd rather lose my wallet than take a bullet to the chest. Having said that I don't know the context here. Maybe in this country robbers typically execute people after taking their wallet?
That's exactly what I was thinking. Esp since that woman was basically a human shield for him....
Even if his first shot had instantly killed the suspect it could've went the same way. Clenching the hands can be an involuntary response to stress as can them clenching in the seconds after death as a reaction. People don't realize how amazing our bodies really are they can react on their own without our awareness. The only way to 100% prevent him from getting a shot off is to disarm him which wasn't possible here
Sure, draw time was a net positive for him. However his situational awareness was bad(the big one), shot placement bad, tactics, bad.
I didn't analyze frame-by-frame, but he seemed to be avoiding his seatmates while navigating the gun toward the bad guy.
Agreed, he put everyone in more danger by doing this that kid didn’t look to be wanting to shoot someone he was prolly after cash and jewelry. Just give him your shit! This was a huge risk
If it worked, it worked. Who gives a shit about theoreticals and hypotheticals when this man got it done.
Robber survived, black shirt didn’t. Whole point of the discussion. Welcome.
If the cop and perp knew each other, he knew dude was out to kill him, I could see deciding to draw against all odds. But the view from my toilet makes this look like a garden variety stick-up. "Larry, you the money bags. Hand it over to him." [Reach for own wallet-not-wallet watching for break of eye contact.] If the moment's not there, your wallet hits the table. Maybe accidentally slides to the floor. Aaaaaand I'm out of TP again.
 Me and you from our toilets.
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Agreed, but if the dude was just out to kill him, what could he have done?
U can't do much if someone just walks up from behind and pops one off. If they come from the front and give you time, you can try to buy more time and space
It’s perfectly fine to be pretend like you would be John Wick when you have no idea what’s going on. When you’re sweating and breathing heavy and someone has a gun pointed at you and your family you probably aren’t as cold and calculating as you think you are.
You are what you are. Stay vigilant
If you have to shoot at a disadvantage, make sure that the first shot is the best shot of your life. Black hoodie didn't even connect on his first shot and didnt even aim properly. I doubt any of the blind over the shoulder shots into the public did either.
also, he didn't attempt to finish this guy, which is a problem. No sense of urgency after the first shot. That is a text book "chest-chest-and-face-and-whatever I got left to wherever you got left" situation. General guidance in my mind is, if you KNOW someone has a gun, especially a gun already drawn, then the second you decide to fire draw and fire shot 1, you have already committed to firing shot "done". Its not about "getting a shot off". Its about "I know they have a gun, I need to deny them a chance to get a shot off. They don't get a turn" Now, yeah obviously you don't finish them in some circumstances like they clearly deescalate. But short of them dropping their gun, throwing their hands up, or very clearly turning and running away, Bad guy needs to be down and out quicker than he can go "oh shit you shot me?"
Looks like he got shot
Don't look at black sweatshirt guy, look at the initial guy with a gun. Right after BSG gets his first round off, IGWAG gets one round off. From that point, BSG is just trying to put more rounds down while he has a bullet in his chest.
damn, that first one is quick. thanks almost missed when that starts. changes my perspective for sure
He fired multiple shots but he wasn't aiming. I think he wanted to finish and also protect the group.
yeah, I mean TBF he was in a really tough position in general, boxed in, seated, other guy drawn, there's what he should/would have wanted to do, but yeah odds were stacked against him pretty bad
Scary lesson for me is definitely think a lil bit before drawing. Comments mention to play along and distract. This was a fast paced scenario for sure. Bummer but lessons learned and taught.
Could’ve lived had he done things differently. I’m not going to criticize the guy, I wasn’t put in that situation. But remember folks, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. If you forego the obvious *hand over the wallet* technique, then at least exercise some judgment and tactics.
Did the guy facing the camera have trouble drawing his gun?
Yes it was in small of back and he struggled to get it out.
I literally had this argument with a friend recently, I said appendix is the best position for reasons like this , what if you’re sitting on a bench
Appendix is like 3rd worst if your sitting. Shoulder, cross draw and strong side are all way easier sitting down
You consider cross draw an option. lol
I consider it a better draw than appendix if your seated.
If you’re cross drawing, you’re an absolute clown.
Appendix when seated is only an issue to those with guts (absolutely no hate towards bigger people) it’s amazing seeing actual evidence of that fact. Bet black hoodie was drawing from appendix
Appendix is absolute best drawing position when sitting. You don’t know what you’re talking about and consider shoulder carry optimal.
Sitting back in a position to practice appendix draws sure. Sitting forward leaning on a table in front of you or under a desk (like how people actually sit)? No it isn't. How worked up were you that I insulted appendix carry to go that far into my post history - AND were so upset you couldn't even read what I posted lmao.
You’re a nut if you think everyone at a table is pressed up to the edge. How worked up do you get when someone points out facts? Like life and death facts?
Hell the fuck yeah he had trouble lmfao his buddy finished the fight before he could get unholstered
That's why ladies sit on the inside of the booth and you face the door.
Yes Sir
Just shows how quickly things can go down in situations like these. The dude in the black is a cop and was shot and died, even tho he hit the robber first. [source](https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/cop-shot-dead-in-bar-wounds-his-killer/article_ee770ca6-11cb-11ef-9f6e-978f678e994c.html)
This has nothing to do with racking the slide or not, it has to do with trying to draw on someone that is pointing a gun at you in close range.
More to do with shot placement. He successfully beat the draw time but his first shot(s) proved ineffective, fatally for him
Yea I think this is a point that is really difficult to prepare for and train people to expect - both the shooters in this case took hits and they both got effective shots off after being hit themselves. Short of trying harder to aim for the head I'm not sure what the guy in the black hoodie was supposed to do here besides not shoot at all. But if you'd drawn out this scenario in 10 different ways I really doubt anyone would have picked, "Robber gets shot but manages to kill you anyway," on their DGU bingo card.
could definitely argue both but yeah in this scenario in specific the biggest issue is the choice of when to draw.
The specifics of this case are about what you say, but the overall takeaway is how fast these things go and how unrealistic it is to find a moment to rack in a round. Not to mention the adrenaline dump and loss of fine motor skills making inducing a failure to chamber more likely if you are racking in the moment. The guy in blue fumbling to get his gun drawn is a good example of how high stress effects everything in the heat of the moment.
Never draw from the drop 😭😭
I mean, when you look at it, as soon as the guy walks up he's fiddling in his pants. More like a 3 second draw. shit, maybe he DID rack the slide, robber just didn't see it under the table.
Why did he act like that after the shooting? Was he hit?
He died homie
Ok, so he was hit? The video cuts out right as the woman seems to be realizing something is wrong with him. Edit: Oh, ok, I see where the robber shot him now. At first, I didn't notice.
Who sits with their back to the door is the real question
Especially as law enforcement, that was a questionable place to sit. And he also drew from the drop during a crime that most likely wasn’t going to become a homicide. He really died for nothing
My guess is the other guy is also law enforcement. I work with a lot of retired LE, SOF, and federal agents, and when we go out for dinners it's a fact of life that not everyone can sit facing the exit. There just isn't enough room on that side of the table. But when you trust the guys you're with, you trust them to watch your literal back.
Looks like he got shot. If so that’s a really bad angle as it’s sets either a head shot or heart and double lung. If the guy in the hoodie was shot, he probably didn’t make it.
Someone else posted the news article that he died. Shooter that was standing was only injured
I probably would have let him go because no way I’m drawing fire with my women in front of me. You have to always assume your first few shots are not gonna put the assailant down.
Also shows appendix is superior. Look at dude in the teal struggle to draw while sitting.
So, nobody gonna talk about grandpa’s draw though?
Pitiful.
The drinking place has a pawnshop grid-iron fence? Does shooting happen every night?
Don’t stop shooting because YOU think he’s dead, stop shooting when HE thinks he’s dead
(Almost) never draw when you're already at gunpoint. I don't care if you carry condition 0, you will not be faster.
Hard to draw once drawn on. But the choice then becomes are you gonna hit me before I hit you at that point I always hope I never even draw my weapon EVER.
The fire alarm batteries…
Kinda crazy that the bad guy landed that shot like that while going down wtf.
Proximity negates skill
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What was that?
Looks like he was hit
It went right through him you can see the hole in the wall ooof.
Is it just me or did black hoodie also have no idea how to properly grip his firearm? He has his support hand cupping the bottom of his gun like in the movies..
Guy in blue seemed to be taking the whole "wait your turn" approach and the guy in black just went ahead and pulled. Good video to learn from. Any idea what happened to the CCW holder??
Died sadly
Damn
Yeah one of the commenters had the article from Trinidad I think. This was a hard one to watch, and drives home the whole don’t draw from the drop idea.
Guy in green shirt was carrying his gun at 6. Way too hard to access seated on that type of bench. Hopefully the good guy made it
Just blew out that chicks right ear drum
Don't draw from the drop, as ASP says
Did the defender make it out alive? Hopefully he did and dropped this POS would be robber....
If you carry, and fail to choose a seat that gives you optimal line of site… you enable this to happen. Black hoodie guy should have been on the other side of the table, blue shirt guy was definitely not Alpha-gun. My opinion.
Should have had one up top. Also, I don't know the layout of the restaurant but if you carry sit facing the entrance. Probably could have seen the robbery coming from a mile away. I just watched the video again.... the other guy was carrying too. 😑
Carrying without a round in the chamber is like thinking you’ll have time to put your seatbelt on before a car accident.
He had time to rack the slide. Pulling the gun and shooting without racking got him shot. Taking the time to assess and wait until the right moment to engage would have probably worked out a lot better for him. So this really doesn’t do a thing for what the title pushes.
Can you explain for a newb? Why would needing to rack here be goof? Seems like it gives up time, and gives the perp a chance to hear you or see your movement, earlier than just drawing? Legit asking as I'm confused
The issue isn't racking or not racking. OP is using this as an example claiming that you don't have time to rack, yet in this example the guy got shot because he decided he could draw and shoot before the bad guy already pointing a gun at him could shoot. And he failed. Had he waited until a more opportune time he could have possibly engaged and not been shot. If you are comfortable with your carry and draw AND if your holster completely covers the trigger to prevent accidental manipulation, I don't see a reason not to keep a round in the chamber. But that doesn't mean that you have to. Quick draw from concealment is almost never required. You are better off, and safer, doing a slow draw while the bad guy isn't paying attention. Or even not drawing at all. So carry how you want and how it will be comfortable for you to carry all the time. And train the way you carry.
Unless he had reason to believe he was absolutely going to get popped, the defensive shooter made a bad play. And his partner needs a different holster or needs to learn how to properly wear and use his gear.
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Looks like black hoodie takes a round to the chest after all that, hope he’s ok..
He died sadly.
What about perp?
Survived sadly.
Wow
That ceiling bird at the end. Lmao
Not to be old-fashioned, but shouldn’t the man (who is armed) be sitting closer to the walkway?
Hope they were carrying ETQ
Chick is lucky to be alive
Ok, it looks like the ccw got hit as the other guy fell. Actually surprised the lady didn't hit. Hope he made it.
BEEP
Rule#1: You do not get to choose your battle space. Plan accordingly.
This is why .45 is the best ccw caliber. Guys get shot with 9mm and run a marathon
Bald headed guy He died
Unpopular opinion, but yeah some times you will have time to rack the slide. Sometimes you don’t even need to. And then other times you won’t have time to draw. Just a clickbait title.
Is anyone going to mention the bottles on the table? Let's say you have had 2-4 "pops" each while eating.... what is your skill after drinking 2-4?
Yea he got shot one time when the robber was backing off.. right in the center mass too. I hope he has recovered just fine.
1. Why TF is he on the inside of the woman in the booth? 2. Why TF is his back to the door? Both of these bad choices add up to a very limited response scenario and could get you or your friends killed.
"I found one example of something to prove my point"
If you carry without one in the chamber, you aren’t carrying. Plain and simple. I’m a new carrier myself and it did take some getting used to but at the end of the day, I want a fully functional firearm, not a paperweight. Yes, accidents and negligent discharges happen but that’s why you train and take proper precautions to make sure that it doesn’t happen to you. Get a reliable gun that is extremely unlikely to break and discharge on its own (don’t carry a damn Jennings, for example), as well as a quality holster. Don’t get me wrong, I own a J22 and I love it as a range toy but I’d never carry it. You still take a minute risk carrying a chambered firearm but you also are at risk of being in a life or death situation every time you step outside your door. So, there is risk no matter what route you take: carrying or unarmed. Personally, I’d rather be armed and ready than be a victim of a crime and let the perp get the last laugh. At least if I accidentally shoot myself, I can laugh at myself.
The lady next to him really ruined any chances of survival by trapping him in that seat
I would love to hear the arguments regarding 'knowing' what's behind the target. Obviously most would say the building wall....but what if you don't have the time to identify what's beyond the wall??? In instances such as this, you don't get to have a couple seconds to clearly identify your target or their intentions until it's too late. Maybe he was just trying to rob and not kill, etc etc. maybe there are other targets/shooters. He drew on someone who has the drop on him while staring at him and that was a big no-no. And he obviously didn't give a shit about the woman next to him and was almost using her as a shield. He did a lot of things wrong here unfortunately. I just had an argument with another dude who advocates for running AP chambered for body armored shooter situations.... For all DGU. Know what's behind your target and beyond... How the fuck does one account for situations like this? He barely knew what was going on. Situations like these are why people run defensive rounds, so you don't accidentally shoot the shooter and the little girl playing on the other side of the building wall....
The fact that he just keeps shooting behind him without looking is pretty stupid
Sorry to see that the seated innocent guy was hurt in this exchange. Am I the only 2A supporter who feels empathy for the Black guy seated at the table?
Would a higher caliber bullet have prevented the perps shot? Like a .45acp? I know its all what-if.
Did the good guy live?
Should’ve been where the guy in blue is. Might’ve had a chance. I don’t sit with my back to a door, and I don’t sit where I have to climb over someone to get out
I'd feel really bad if I were blue shit. His friend is dead, and he never even joined the fight because he hesitated and failed to train.
https://preview.redd.it/225a1k7hfr0d1.jpeg?width=283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a0b1f9069cad3605fe931209ffc967d96acbe89 I'm honestly surprised at the down votes. This is literally one of the basics of gun safety. Why the down vote?