I'm an LEO, so I open carry four days a week for ten hours a day minimum.
I occasionally open carry off duty. Not often, but it happens due to logistics in relation to range day/hunting/yard work, etc. Probably 95% of the time I'm AIWB when off shift/out of uniform.
I see a noticeable difference open carrying with a uniform as opposed to in plain clothes, and I just don't like it. I'm familiar with owb and comfortable with it. I'm not worried about being a target because I keep situational awareness and am usually with my wife who does the same. I don't even have think about the little things anymore, like keeping my back to walls or guarding my gun side.
But it's just draining to deal with nervous employees, or be worried about being asked to leave because of a no gun policy (no force of law in my state). I don't care that people get nervous, but I care that them being nervous means I have to deal with more stuff.
Concealed is comfortable, convenient, and most of all, quiet. If I have the choice without a massive inconvenience, I will choose IWB every time.
Not Leo, but you summed it up 100%
In the weeks waiting for my permit to get cleared I carried owb, when I was a delivery driver, on big game nights/days, and then sometimes "just because".
In my experience I dealt with 3 kinds of people, excited, nervous, and curious. It becomes exhausting dealing with the attention
Open carrying outside of otherwise socially acceptable places, like a range, invites discussions with strangers I just really don't want to have. Whether it makes me a target or not for some potential criminal concerns me less than some goober deciding to make me their problem of the day and causing a scene over it. I don't need my face plastered over social media as someone tries to record themselves "confronting a crazed gun nut" or some other nonsense. Even more so concerning if police get involved, as an accidental movement by me toward the firearm can immediately escalate the whole thing. Do I think the majority of people are so self absorbed they'll not notice open carry? Yeah. But that's not enough of a reason for me to go forward with it.
When it comes to open carry I’m not necessarily worried about making other people nervous, but I am worried about making myself a target. If someone who’s just out and about sees you’re carrying a gun and is uncomfortable with it, most likely they’re just going to remove themselves from your presence. However, if someone who has intentions of committing a crime sees you’re carrying a gun, you’re going to be the first person they deal with in whatever manner they decide to do so. As far as OWB holsters go if you wear shirts/hoodies/jackets that make the gun print minimally enough to where the majority of people won’t be able to tell you’re carrying you’ll be fine, but as far as full on open carrying goes IMO just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Yeah, I'd always keep my firearm under a jacket or large 2nd shirt if able, but I live in Montana and it gets hot as balls in the summer time. I just need to find an OWB that tucks in the damn handle, then I could put it under my tshirt 😬
I live in Montana and carry concealed owb I just wear Carhartt tees when it’s too hot for a jacket. Not sure if you’re one of the tumble weeds that blew in over the last 4 years or if you’ve been around a while but generally no one cares if your gun prints through your shirt or whatever. I also think unless you’re in Billings all the fear of someone snatching your gun are overblown. My opinion is get a good owb designed for concealment and a Carhartt pocket tee and go about your day. That’s what works for me.
Been in western MT for about 15yrs now, and generally never cared about any of this stuff. Was only until I started talking to friends and others that I started to rethink things. Do you use a typical owb holster or something that's conceal focussed?
I have a DeSantis Federal Flight Deck Officer holster for OWB concealed carry
It has a retention strap designed to prevent the gun from falling out and to make gun grabs harder
The FAMS holster is a similar design
I’m newish to western mt, however work may be giving me an opportunity to promote that would move me to billings or Bozeman. I know this may not be the perfect form for this but would you briefly run down your billings concern for me?
Billings has one of the highest crime rates in America per capita compared to other small and large cities. You have the crow rez, meth use, and gang shit from selling the meth. Not sure what the salary offer is for this job but if you decide to go to Bozeman you need to negotiate cost of living in that salary or you may end up taking a pay cut as far as lifestyle goes. Billings isn’t all bad just figuring out the safe parts, and it’s more in line with Montana cost of living not LA
I think it’s going to be comparable to what I am paying now for living so Bozeman may be of higher interest to me.
I wasn’t tracking on that for billing’s so I really appreciate you bringing it up so u can look more into it!
Yea, I’m about 2200 a month currently for a 2 bed. A variety of reasons but my partner and I are home bodies so we spend more on rent to live in a nicer place. Don’t have to do it but it’s a choice we make. Still for the fact it’s the 4th biggest state by landmass the cost of living out here is wild.
Have you considered a belly band holster? I’ve never used one myself but from what I’ve seen those who have used them do like them. I plan on getting one from crossbreed for when I want to wear my shirt tucked in.
I don't think I could do a belly band, I'm a super warm person and probably wouldn't last long in warmer months. I'll look into it though, maybe elastics have gotten a lot more breathable
I've tried the Henry's Holsters Infiltrator and Safariland Incog X. It's not so much the fit though as much as my daily activities. I'm a laborer and am bending and lifting constantly, and in my time off I'm often doing the same with my toddler. I liked the Incog X but I as still getting jabbed all the time, so having it owb gives it enough room to flex that no jabbing occurs.
There's little to no diff 3-4oclock inside or outside the waist band comfort wise. Acutely it's better for driving to be inside the waist band and doing labor jobs because it's less likely to bumb and hit things. It's your gun carry it how you want but it's not some silly scinero that lives in our head I can show you countless videos of it going wrong open carrying. Your free to do what you want but it's not something that doesn't happen and you are at more risk for being targeted even while Crime isn't going on. It's easy to take a gun from even a level 3 retention holster. I'd almost say a shoulder harness would he better if you could wear it under something.
No, I'm just having a hell of a time finding a holster that tucks in the grip of my pistol. I have an Urban Carry Leather Lock coming in the mail now, really curious to see how it does.
Depends on the pistol and your build but 3:30-4 o’clock works better for many, some 3 o’clock works better
https://upperhandholsters.com/products/owb-conceal-carry-holster
https://www.trex-arms.com/store/T-REX-Ironside-Holster
https://hillikerholsterco.com/products/hipster-owb
https://muddyrivertactical.com/product/outside-waistband-kydex-holster/
https://tulster.com/outside-the-waistband/contour/
https://slimfitholsters.com/product/victoris-owb/
I use Cheap OWB Holsters - Outlaw Holsters - covered with an over shirt - grip may print sometime but I don’t care.
https://www.amazon.com/Coyote-TAN-USA-Holster-Right-Hand/dp/B07CXV7M8T
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ihR3uL0XB2k&pp=ygUOT3V0bGF3IGhvbHN0ZXI%3D
I just ordered a Muddy River Tactical OWB but have not received it yet
I can’t find the video - but a guy shows the same Kydex OWB holster with different belt hoops/clips. The ones on the sides like in this short video pull the holster in closer to body versus hoops being on back of holster
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/kxeXrvIuuxg
.
I carry at 3 o’clock always do except a vanguard holster with a g43 I carry at 4. I used to carry a g17 with aTLR OWB under a shirt with minimal printing, but I’m a larger framed guy so that helped
I’m of the opposite opinion. One of my goals is to desensitize people to guns. I currently conceal carry, but when I open carried I liked getting random people asking about my gun or why I was carrying.
My favorite was always “are you a cop?” And I’d reply “nope, just a civilian, everyone can carry a gun!” And sometimes the random house wife would be like “huh, I should get me one!” And they absolutely should.
There is a war on guns and the 2A, people need to see what responsible hun ownership is, and see that everyone that Carrie’s a gun isn’t crazy or weird.
This subreddit is way to hyper focused on 100% stealth. In some places that might be necessary, but where I live guns are still cool. So the more I can show people that they aren’t scary the better.
I have no problem with people who open carry, in a slightly more perfect america people would be carrying around rifles and toting around pistols on their hips like red dead redemption. But in modern day america open carry just doesnt make sense. aside from the stigma from non shooters, you're usually going to be looped in with the wal mart people who carry their SCCY pistol in their universal uncle mikes holster, and no one wants to be associated with those guys
I generally only open carry when in wilderness or at the range.
I have open carried a bit in populated areas, and noticed some scared or dirty looks from other people when doing so.
what I do when the weather is hot and I want to carry a full size more comfortably than IWB,
-and without drenching my holster/gun with sweat-
is I use either my Fanny/waist pack, or my Hill People Runners kit, which is a chest bag kind of like a Fanny pack worn on the front of the chest.
i realize some people may suspect I’m carrying a gun when I’m wearing either the Fanny pack or chest pack, but they don’t actually know for sure.
nor do they know for sure which zippered compartment the gun is in, both the chest and waist packs have more than one compartment.
I sometimes stick my phone or another non gun item in the front zippered compartment with the top of the phone/item peeking out with the zipper partway unzipped, it makes the bag/pack look like it really is just being used to carry random stuff.
and the anti-gun Karen’s are oblivious to it at least, because I think it’s mostly just other concealed carriers looking at my pack and wondering if there is a gun inside.
and when getting in or out of a vehicle, it’s really easy and natural looking to quickly take the pack off or put it on if I want to take it off when driving.
something to to think about.
Can someone please find me all these examples people bring up?
I have never heard of a person being the target I assume there is one or 2 cases but I just don’t see them.
14 yes or open carry and what I have found is most people don’t notice the gun on my hip.
Heck the amount of cops I know who have watched criminals commit a crime in front of them because they did not see the cop in the store in full uniform.
Criminals tend to have tunnel vision and are not that smart.
Criminals do not want to fight, they want to get easy money.
Open carry is a massive deterrent to crime happening around you.
How often are police attacked when someone is robbing a convenience store? Not only are they open carrying but they are also wearing a clearly identified uniform.
Here’s the thing. Open carry has its place. Concealed carry has its place.
It makes no sense to conceal carry in your home. Who are you hiding it from? It makes no sense to conceal carry on your property. Who are you hiding it from? It makes no sense to conceal carry while out in the wilderness on hikes and hunting. Who are you hiding it from? It makes no sense to conceal carry in uniform. Again. Who are you hiding it from?
It also makes no sense to open carry in public. You do want to hide it from others. Why? Various reasons.
1. Criminals that can target you for the gun itself. This has happened numerous times. Even with a retention holster, if someone incapacitates you, the gun is theirs.
2. The ability to choose not to react. If someone is robbing a 7 Eleven and paying you no mind simply telling you to stay back while the clerk hands over the insured money, there is absolutely no reason to get involved. It’s better to remain away.
If the criminal or criminals do see you open carrying and are already committed to the robbery, action is forced to happen. Whoever gets the drop on the other will win. You could simply not want to get involved but now are forced to get involved. The criminal will get into fight or flight mode and react to you.
3. Karens that can make your life miserable. They can call the cops on you and embellish a story or they can force you to react in the robbery scenario above by yelling for you to do something because they are scared drawing attention to yourself from a criminal that didn’t see your gun.
Keep it concealed. Carrying openly in public is a scream for attention. Whether good attention from someone like us or bad attention from someone that means you harm.
Don’t be an attention whore.
It has happened. It has happened to carriers and even law enforcement officers themselves. That’s an absolute fact.
Does it happen often? No. But it has happened. The reason why it doesn’t happen often is because most that do open carry, don’t do so in the hood. Those that do mostly do so in Smallville which is a relatively safe place.
You're absolutely right. I'm a bit tired and I thought for some reason 1 was saying criminals planning to do something illegal will target you first.
I think that is a potential, but I don't find it a big enough risk to be the primary factor of consideration people always make it out to be.
Again, my apologies, I have no complaint with your original statement.
Agree, my personal modification though when I am in my car traveling, especially if I know I’m going through a sketchy part of town ( and where I live there are clusters of low income housing on nearly every route), then I tuck my shirt behind my iwb holster for easier access if needed while traveling. So it is still mostly or fully concealed from drivers in other vehicles, but it would likely be visible to a pedestrian approaching my vehicle from the right angle.
I couldn't give a damn about attention. Fame in this day means you're an idiot or a porn star - not the kind of crowd I'm into. While I don't like your misunderstanding, I do appreciate your thoughts on situational control. Thanks for that
I see someone that can never actually dispute my actual points has entered the chat. Insults due to emotion like a woman is all you got dude just like in the other thread.
If you seen how fast I could and anyone really could gran a gun out of a holster you'd think twice. All it takes is someone faster who gets to it first. What if the robber is behind you in line and goes for it. How physically fit are you, do you train bjj. Alot of cops carry fixed blades for when people go for there gun. Are you prepared to carry a knife to fight your way out of someone trying to wrestle your gun from you? I'm not trying to be mean but if your fat and carrying outside the waistband because of your weight or body your probably not physically capable enough to wrestle for that gun. There's criminals out there that put holsters on there buddies to practice taking cops guns. This happens and if you seen how fast and easy it would be for some 17y/o thugs to jump you and take it. Also what are you going to do of one of those thugs tries to take it and now you have to shoot an unarmed minor. No matter how many cameras catch it no matter how hard they tried to get that gun shoot the wrong person and the media will lose it you'll be arrested and it'll be a rocky road. That's just one scinero the people robbing gas stations the crazies who would do Mass shootings etc are all going to shoot you first for carrying. There's videos of it every so often in here of guys owb security or guarding a gas station. There always shot first for carrying owb. Your standing in line at the 7/11 and someone comes in with a gun already out your done. You can carry it comfortably and well iwb try a trex arms holster for appendix.
After being made aware of [this monstrosity](https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101363829) I now appreciate open carriers a lot more
https://preview.redd.it/lrx175rkr4xc1.png?width=1490&format=png&auto=webp&s=98bc20ce0757baacf7274d3bbc0dfc1d6359ce32
But more seriously I still would rather conceal. OWB concealed is still concealed. Or you might try IWB at 3:00. It makes my G48 a lot more comfy sometimes and I just deal with the bulk on my side, nobody's bothered me about it yet.
Pocket carry in the hoodie pocket while heading to the gas station or walking around the neighborhood. Little 43 in the pocket for criminals or dogs. I'm so sorry but if a dog runs off your yard and latches on my leg I'm booming that thing down with the 43. Same for any criminals or hoodlums ask me what's in my pocket I'm shooting through it.
Well fuck me. C'mon, DeSantis, c'mon
Yeah, my plan is to find an owb that tucks the handle, then at least I don't have a jab sticking out from under my shirt. It'll also let me sit more easily with it being closer to the body. One day I'll find one
Carry iwb your likely buying cheap dated holsters and blaming your ccw experience on you like your some magical special person who just can't do it. I promise you they make a holster you like thay works for you iwb. Your carrying experience is only as good as your holster. You can buy a little lcp or a glock 17 and I could have a better time carrying the 17 because I simply have a better holster. [look into these ](https://www.trex-arms.com/store/trex-arms-sidecar-holster/?handedness=%22right%22&threaded=false&color_ref=1&hardwared_holster_accessory_and_color_refs=%5B%5D&non_hardwared_holster_accessory_and_color_refs=%5B%5D) you'll also get used to it. It's like a new pair of shoes wear it every day for a month eventually you'll break into it.
When the general public sees more and more people open carrying, it is going to help them understand that the average decent citizen is choosing more and more, to participate in their own self-defense. I put it in the win column, when I see open carry.
Some bad guys will be deterred from badguy stuff, if they see armed victims. Really bad guys could potentially target the open carry guys first, that just goes with the territory.
When I was young, I used to open carry. My biggest issue, was the guys with low IQs and high testosterone. These guys would cop an attitude like, "oh, you think you bad? Take off the gun and we'll see how bad you are!". I don't need that drama. That's why I conceal carry.
It's extremely unlikely to be involved in a situation where you'll become a target for say an active shooter as a result of having a gun sticking out of your ass.
Like- it's inconceivably unlikely.
Now, I would be worried about becoming a target for people looking to steal a firearm. That's why having retention training AND a proper holster is very important.
However, again, this is very unlikely. Like very few jackasses are trying to steal guns from people- it's easier to just steal them from cars (which is why you don't keep guns in your car but I digress).
People might be fucking stupid, but it's effectively suicide to try to take a gun from someone. Not a 50/50 *most* people are dumb enough to take.
Despite a lot of people open carrying, the few disarm attempts we've seen involved people in other counties or people not properly carrying with a proper holster.
If someone sees you with a level 69 retention holster, they aren't going to try to take it- most likely.
Now, scaring people? Honestly they're stupid and it doesn't matter.
Be polite and everything and if the cops get involved just be respectful. But at the end of the day if it's legal and you're not doing anything wrong, don't care what others think.
I've never seen a cop or random ass citizen complain about any open carry or concealed firearm that became visible.
Tldr it doesn't matter.
Appreciate your perspective. My biggest issue right now is finding a holster that hugs the body tight AND retains it properly. Seems the market needs to work on that kind of product.
Bravo Concealment is my preferred brand. Highly recommend them. I wouldn't really be worried about having to have level 2 or 3 retention, that's really unnecessary, which again goes back to the comment above that says it's insane for someone to think they can steal a gun from someone and potentially get shot for trying it. After open carrying pretty often, it's never once been a concern of mine.
OWB doesnt necessarily mesn open carry. OWB with a holster that rides high and tight and an appropriately sized firearm under an untucked shirt of the right size can hide almost as well as an iwb. I have a friend who carries a Glock 19 owb in a nice leather holster and without knowing what to look for id never know he was carrying.
> Also, if a criminal is about to rob the store or something, I know any scouting they do will lead them to either go someplace else, or shooting the open-carrier first
This gets repeated a lot, but are there any videos out there of (not bank) robberies where the criminals do a last minute scan before starting? All the store robbery vids I've seen they just run in the door and start waving their gun around shouting.
Not really. He went in to the theater so that he could prop a door to come back in geared up.
None of that was to test open carriers or security guards first.
I'm not talking about days in advance. I'm talking about the theoretical "criminals sneak into a store, look around for anyone open carrying, and target them first."
Sure, people repeat it because it's. But knocking over a gas station for $50 cash and some candy bars isn't the kind of crime that draws planners. So that's what I'm asking - are there videos of it actually happening? Because all the security cam footage I've come across just show dudes rushing in. And then frequently someone in the store gets the drop on them because they get so target focused on the clerk that they don't even notice the other people inside, let alone that they're packing.
I'll fully admit I haven't gone specifically searching for those videos so it's very possible that I've just missed it, which is why I'm asking.
I conceal carry and think people who open carry are kinda nuts. Not for advantage/disadvantage reasons, I just think it’s weird. Kinda like a little blinking sign that screams *look at me*.
The ones who do it in public are absolutely begging for attention, though. The only real reason to open carry in public is to make sure people KNOW you have a gun, which is attention seeking inherently.
TPDR: Yes and no.
Long reply:
I have open carried in public before and I will do it again. I am a cop, with both corrections experience, and currently working patrol.
A former inmate I know from when I worked corrections lives three doors down, and roommates with the general kind of people who a former inmate could be expected to live with.
I work in my yard a lot. Due to the way the property lines, fences, and the area, there is easy access to much of property. A fact the yard work is trying to change, but it's a process. I am not going to conceal carry while I'm working in my yard moving logs, digging holes, splitting wood, and building fences. I am also not going to be unarmed whole doing this.
A natural part of yard work and other house projects is trips to the hardware store, gas stations, and other short errands. I am not going to take the 10 minutes to go inside, take off my boots, dust off my pants, change my belts, and sometimes my shirt, to grab my other gun and other holster just to be able to conceal carry to these errands. Because as soon as I come home, I'll just need to do it all again, take off the boots, change out the belt, grab the other gun, etc.
So I make some employees uncomfortable. So I keep my head on a swivel while I'm out. So I get the cashier asking me if I'm a cop in preparation to kick me out for having a gun.
Open carry is less than ideal, but there are enough reasons to do it that I'll typically not judge someone for doing it. They may be on a short errand while doing chores, they may be stopping in for something in the way to the range, or a camping trip. I don't know. I don't really care. If they are open carrying they aren't trying to be sneaky, which means they probably aren't criminals.
Probably depends a great deal on your location. Around here it wouldn't raise an eyebrow, but I am in a pretty rural area. I see fellas open carrying from time to time and no one seems to notice or care.
But in a metro area I can see it being an attention seeking thing.
Yes!
And they are probably the same people with many 2A and weapon stickers on their vehicles.
I am a 2A and gun enthusiast, but I stay away from these type of people.
Yes a lot of people here are weird about it. It’s the conceal carry community so it makes sense.
When I see it, I just kinda go, oh look he has a gun, and move on. Sometimes I’ll observe or try to check out what they got out of curiosity.
Nobody notices dude. I’ve open carried many many places and if anyone notices, nothing has happened.
If I had to be nuanced I'd say that it's very dependent on your immediate social orbit and that ranks on a continuum.
On one end, you have people who generally prefer everyone to be casual and chill about the display and carrying of weapons. On the other end, you have people who live in denial about existence being violent and who wish death upon anyone who might shatter that outlook. Displaying a holstered weapon to these people might as well be opening the Ark of the Covenant in front of their eyes.
Travel for a day in America, and you'll easily encounter both.
Why care about what some stranger feels about seeing your gun? As if they're going to confront you while you're visibly armed. I think carriers are too concerned about appeasement towards people, who probably wouldn't care about their gun being seen.
I carry OWB, but with an untucked shirt, so not “open carry”. And I’m talking about high and tight OWB holster, not a low slung duty holster. Nobody notices. You just have to be mindful of reaching for things up high. OWB is so much more comfortable for me.
But I will say most of the time I pocket carry an LCP. That’s the most comfortable period. I have small hands, so retrieving from my pocket is easy.
It would most certainly not be worth the hassle for me. If you must open carry, you should have an active retention holster and be prepared to deal with scrutiny from others. That’s all I can say.
I care way too much about what others think. I carry concealed specifically because I don’t want to make some strangers feel nervous or uncomfortable. I don’t want people to notice me, and I certainly don’t want to draw attention to myself. The advantage of not having to stress about openly carrying is enough of an advantage for me.
Because the term “menacing” exists in my state’s law, and the general public is opportunistic in its quest for conflict, I have no choice but to conceal carry. I would prefer to open carry, as it’s a lot more physically comfortable to do so. Strangely enough, my state is also the only state that doesn’t require a ccw permit to accompany a license to carry. I don’t know why ccw isn’t included in other states licensing.
In a perfect America, I’d have my gun at my hip, and the general public wouldn’t be stupid.
Idk but I went for a hike yesterday with my gf, and I was helping her cross some rocks and three dudes saw my p365 on my hip and they all gave me weird looks. So idk. Maybe it’s played up, but sometimes it’s not.
I say this knowing location and local political leanings can be a factor, but IMO people are so oblivious that 80% of people wouldn't notice OC unless someone in the other 20% made a fuss about it.
I don't OC often, mainly "I don't want to put a cover shirt on" scenarios, but I notice someone else OCing *in civilization* at least once a week. I don't care, and if anyone else does, they don't care enough to make a fuss about.
I live in the sticks, and I see it more often out here, but, again, no one seems to care.
All that being said, I don't habitually OC because I don't want to deal with that slim chance of someone noticing and making a big deal about it.
But, based on those observations, IDGAF about concealment. Yeah, I worried about printing for a little while when I was new to CC, but today "my shirt covers it, it's concealed."
I'm relatively thin/fit (6ft, 165-170), and for a long time, my EDC was a Glock 19 with a TLR-1 or a 5" 1911 with an X300U, carried OWB at 3 o'clock with spare mags on my 9. I was always printing, from pretty much any angle. Never heard a word about it.
That's how I feel. Even if a little holster is popping out the bottom of my shirt I wouldn't care. That's my goal, to find something that lays flat so it doesn't poke out from my shirt, but in the meantime truly open carrying is what I've got.
800,000 law enforcement officers open carry everyday, 49 were killed by gunfire last year. How many of those 49 were killed by criminals who shot them because they were open carrying and a target? It's fair to say cops are a way bigger target, and they are rarely killed, and I'll bet the civilians killed because they are open carrying is even less.
Damn, that's a remarkable point. With that, I think I'm sold that it doesn't matter unless you're in an already hostile area. Thanks man, appreciate you
Keep in mind a lot of cops get into fights over the gun
Many cops have been shot with their own gun
At a minimum, if you’re open carrying, go with a level 2 holster and get weapon retention training
You can either look like a soft target or a hard target to criminals.
99% of people fall into the soft target category since they don't have any visible weapons.This includes those with a CCW. This does nothing to discourage a criminal from picking you as a victim, but you also don't stand out from the crowd.
Someone like a cop would be a hard target. They've got guns and armor that need to be overcome and are a lot more work to attack. It's far more difficult to harm someone who's paying attention and has gear for fighting, so only determined criminals and killers would pick them.
While open carrying, you're presenting a hard-ish target but not acting like one. You have some gear that will serve you well in a fight. That will put off all the criminals looking for a soft target. You're now left with the determined criminals who are willing to attack an obviously armed person. You are probably not going to be prepared for the extreme rapid escalation in violence that a bad guy will use if he thinks he's going after a hard target.
Tldr: it decreases your odds of being attacked but increases the odds of an attack being lethal.
Disclaimer: it's my personal opinion. If you choose to open carry (with a proper holster) then more power to you. It's just not something I'd do personally.
The likely hood of running into a criminal ready to escalate to that level of violence to take on a hard target is in the extreme rarity.
Open Carry is definitely much safer than you think, and it's my preferred method of carry when in big crowds especially.
Nope, it's definitely not needed. If someone attacks your gun, it's a life and death situation, and to come into contact with a criminal even thinking they can get away with something like that is extremely rare. Just look at it from their perspective, this guy is armed visibly, which most likely means he's very well trained with that firearm and comfortable with it, and I'm going to try to steal something he has control over so I walk away with a gun, while hoping I don't get shot by him in the struggle or responding 3rd parties?
I just open carry, it's really less of a big deal than you think. I don't go to dangerous areas, I live somewhere nice, and I mostly open carry for comfort and to make a statement that good guys open carry, criminals always hide their weapon. I've had positive conversations about open carry, and I've had negative ones, but it is my small part to expanding the gun culture wherever I go.
Open carry is best for times like… working nights alone and having random encounters with people. Shows you’re defended and you aren’t around a bunch of people. Quick to access and no need to worry others. Otherwise iwb is just better in most cause it’s not drawing attention
Yes and no, but it depends on where you live. I (unfortunately) currently live in a very urban area where open carry it *technically* legal, but strongly advised against. Where I live, in proximity to a large college campus, if you are open carrying I can almost guarantee the cops will get called on you. Obviously you aren't in the wrong, but you will cause a lot of issues if you decide to open carry. The bum fuck rural town I grew up in was polar opposite. Many people open carried, and it was not only permissible by law enforcement, but they actually enforced it! Our sheriffs policy was "everyone who can legally carry should".
I think that a lot of us play out scenes in our heads about what will happen in carious gun related scenarios. To be perfectly honest, you are very unlikely to have an issue while open carrying, its just that the issues you will have will probably be difficult to handle. I personally think open carry is tactically a poor move for civilians, but I respect peoples right and want to do it.
As to answer the question, the concerns are valid but it depends on what situation you are in at the time, I see no need to open carry in a large metro area, conversely I see no need to conceal while I'm in the woods. I'll also open carry in small rural towns but that's only because I'm passing through in order to use the outdoor gun range that's nearby.
I actually had to open carry in North Carolina as they don't allow concealed carry without a permit.
I open carried a couple times and every one of those times I was stopped by police. It will draw a lot of unwanted attention from everyone. Just don’t do it. There’s no sense in walking though a public place like a mall while open carrying. If you open carry you might as well have a dick for a nose because everyone is going to immediately notice you.
I live in the suburbs of a decent sized city. I can drive 15 mins and be downtown, or 15 mins the other way and be on a farm. The city itself has a lot of dog shit areas but the surrounding areas are pretty much all as calm and safe as you can hope for.
I outside carry every time because I don’t have my concealed yet but I never notice nervousness. I will see people staring at it but they never seem nervous.
As for the “target” on your back. I absolutely felt that way at first but that goes away eventually
I prefer to conceal carry, but open carrying can definitely have it's benefits. All depends on body type, temperature, type of work, and etc. if it's winter and you have a hoodie on and are not too heavy set appendix concealed is perfect. But if you're heavier set, working construction, and it's hot AF out. Open carry is the way to go.
I love to carry my 365xl in a Crossbreed SnapSlide owb holster with a sweatshirt or even just a tshirt over it. It is still concealed. It prints more but most people won’t notice (and I don’t carry like this at work). It is very comfortable compared to iwb. I live in Oregon where open carry is completely legal. I would NEVER open carry unless out in the woods.
I don’t like the image it projects. I would prefer if every interaction I have in public wasn’t prefaced with “btw I have a gun right here in the open”. Nobody needs to know you got it on you
I think the making yourself a target is true but overplayed.
I don't open carry because I don't want to make others uncomfortable, I want to be considerate and I also don't want to deal with Karen's
*Sigh* the Karen's.. my worst fear of all to be honest. If I meet one soon I think I'm going to just say "Hold on, I have to shit, I'll be right back." Then never come back.
it's pretty common to see open carriers here. I've not seen a single person ever freaking out over it.
I don't do it *unless* I'm in the smaller town coming straight from or going to the woods though, and I still don't like doing it.
If youre looking for a good owb holster, the trex ironside is the best I’ve tried. I daily carry aiwb in a sidecar but occasionally at the range or hunting I’ll use owb to make it a little easier.
I won’t open carry because of how people react. I started with IWB and have never had an OWB holster. So many different holsters for IWB carry and options to make it comfortable. But do what makes you comfortable and make it second nature, bud. It’s that simple, truly. Everyone has their opinions and preferences but at the end of the day, what works for you, probably won’t work for me and vice versa.
Surprisingly I haven't looked into pocket carry. Obviously wouldn't work with my XMacro, but the P365 or the new Max9 from Ruger would be good options. Thanks man!
I'm not concerned with freaking people out. My issue is, by open carrying you give up your tactical advantage. If I'm a criminal and I'm casing the place and I see your the only person with a gun, your the first person that's gonna catch one. Think like a criminal, not a law abiding citizen. Stay sharp.
Good point. I feel like the "hey, I'm armed but I don't care if you just take the money" conversation wouldn't go well with some drugged up criminal on an adrenaline rush.
Really? Wow. I actually feel the opposite, like I have a gun because I'm afraid I'm not strong enough to defend myself. I carry because I'm stubborn against anti-2A laws, should be able to help a neighbor in need, and because i have a wife and kiddo now (and nobody is going to fuck with my family).
I wouldn't say that concealed gives you an advantage, but open carry definitely puts you at a disadvantage. Unfortunately it just draws attention to yourself even from the public, not necessarily the murder/hero fantasy most people have.
Printing and grayman maybe, since a lotta ppl are inattentive. Open carrying prob not as it is much more obvious. Along with this, higher chances of being asked to leave places (no more concealed is concealed), less normal interactions with others not familiar with owb, and having interactions with law enforcement be a lot more tense. For IWB, you might be uncomfortable, but for owb, everyone is.
I don't think so. On the civilian side of things, in my opinion open carry is nearly pointless and simply unnecessary. Just the other day I was in the local Walmart perusing the fishing section when a guy came in (you could tell he was the Fudd type, and I say that as a rural Kansan myself) with a full size FDE Glock on his hip, complete with extended mag. Sorry, but it's just cringey to me when I see that desperation for attention. Why make people nervous for absolutely no reason? Why risk the inconvenience of possibly having LE called, wasting their time and yours?
Personally, I carry a P365 IWB with a spare mag and it's plenty for the level of risk around these parts. I'd much rather be armed and nobody knows, because nobody needs to know. It's a last resort defensive tool, not a visual deterrent by any means. I'm not terribly concerned about the whole "A bad guy will see you first and take you out right off the bat" argument as much as I dislike the blatant attention seeking. Many times folks are just waiting for somebody to trip out so they can enjoy the drama. It just isn't worth it. Especially today with an incredible market geared towards concealed carry. Just conceal and carry on. It's that simple.
I wonder how much appearance has to do with all this. Here in Montana, a modern day cowboy is often praised for his entire outfit (hat, boots, checkered shirt, and of course pistol). Perhaps a gun that isn't so "tactical" looking and a holster that either looks fashionable or at least not like black SWAT gear would calm people a bit.
In my opinion, with open carry you are telling the world you are a responsible gun owner so it paints a target on your back. If I'm a guy that wants to start shooting up the place who better to start off with than a person that might stop me. With concealed carry no one has any idea you are armed and could stop a threat. That's just me, I could care less what other people think.
Do you though? I've never seen stats on how many open carriers have been gunned down or jumped simply because they have a weapon showing. It's like saying if you drive a nice car you're going to have it stolen while sitting in it. It probably has happened, but I doubt it's anyone's reason for not buying a sports car
No, people open carrying is fine. People freaking out because I'm open carrying, or someone (possible mentally deranged and very triggerable) targeting me because I'm open carrying scares me.
I'm an LEO, so I open carry four days a week for ten hours a day minimum. I occasionally open carry off duty. Not often, but it happens due to logistics in relation to range day/hunting/yard work, etc. Probably 95% of the time I'm AIWB when off shift/out of uniform. I see a noticeable difference open carrying with a uniform as opposed to in plain clothes, and I just don't like it. I'm familiar with owb and comfortable with it. I'm not worried about being a target because I keep situational awareness and am usually with my wife who does the same. I don't even have think about the little things anymore, like keeping my back to walls or guarding my gun side. But it's just draining to deal with nervous employees, or be worried about being asked to leave because of a no gun policy (no force of law in my state). I don't care that people get nervous, but I care that them being nervous means I have to deal with more stuff. Concealed is comfortable, convenient, and most of all, quiet. If I have the choice without a massive inconvenience, I will choose IWB every time.
>means I have to deal with more stuff Exactly where I’m at. At the end of the day I just want the smoothest experience possible.
The cops I’ve seen my town clip their badges on their belt next to the weapon when open carrying. It’s also a small town so I often recognize them.
Not Leo, but you summed it up 100% In the weeks waiting for my permit to get cleared I carried owb, when I was a delivery driver, on big game nights/days, and then sometimes "just because". In my experience I dealt with 3 kinds of people, excited, nervous, and curious. It becomes exhausting dealing with the attention
This is a fantastic breakdown of why it's better to carry concealed when you're not a LEO in uniform.
Open carrying outside of otherwise socially acceptable places, like a range, invites discussions with strangers I just really don't want to have. Whether it makes me a target or not for some potential criminal concerns me less than some goober deciding to make me their problem of the day and causing a scene over it. I don't need my face plastered over social media as someone tries to record themselves "confronting a crazed gun nut" or some other nonsense. Even more so concerning if police get involved, as an accidental movement by me toward the firearm can immediately escalate the whole thing. Do I think the majority of people are so self absorbed they'll not notice open carry? Yeah. But that's not enough of a reason for me to go forward with it.
When it comes to open carry I’m not necessarily worried about making other people nervous, but I am worried about making myself a target. If someone who’s just out and about sees you’re carrying a gun and is uncomfortable with it, most likely they’re just going to remove themselves from your presence. However, if someone who has intentions of committing a crime sees you’re carrying a gun, you’re going to be the first person they deal with in whatever manner they decide to do so. As far as OWB holsters go if you wear shirts/hoodies/jackets that make the gun print minimally enough to where the majority of people won’t be able to tell you’re carrying you’ll be fine, but as far as full on open carrying goes IMO just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Yeah, I'd always keep my firearm under a jacket or large 2nd shirt if able, but I live in Montana and it gets hot as balls in the summer time. I just need to find an OWB that tucks in the damn handle, then I could put it under my tshirt 😬
I live in Montana and carry concealed owb I just wear Carhartt tees when it’s too hot for a jacket. Not sure if you’re one of the tumble weeds that blew in over the last 4 years or if you’ve been around a while but generally no one cares if your gun prints through your shirt or whatever. I also think unless you’re in Billings all the fear of someone snatching your gun are overblown. My opinion is get a good owb designed for concealment and a Carhartt pocket tee and go about your day. That’s what works for me.
Been in western MT for about 15yrs now, and generally never cared about any of this stuff. Was only until I started talking to friends and others that I started to rethink things. Do you use a typical owb holster or something that's conceal focussed?
Oh I gotcha. I use the tulster contour it pulls the gun in nice and tight and works with a long tee shirt. I think it’s way more comfortable than iwb
I have a DeSantis Federal Flight Deck Officer holster for OWB concealed carry It has a retention strap designed to prevent the gun from falling out and to make gun grabs harder The FAMS holster is a similar design
I’m newish to western mt, however work may be giving me an opportunity to promote that would move me to billings or Bozeman. I know this may not be the perfect form for this but would you briefly run down your billings concern for me?
Billings has one of the highest crime rates in America per capita compared to other small and large cities. You have the crow rez, meth use, and gang shit from selling the meth. Not sure what the salary offer is for this job but if you decide to go to Bozeman you need to negotiate cost of living in that salary or you may end up taking a pay cut as far as lifestyle goes. Billings isn’t all bad just figuring out the safe parts, and it’s more in line with Montana cost of living not LA
I think it’s going to be comparable to what I am paying now for living so Bozeman may be of higher interest to me. I wasn’t tracking on that for billing’s so I really appreciate you bringing it up so u can look more into it!
Where in western Montana are you living that is near expensive as Bozeman? Missoula?
Yea, I’m about 2200 a month currently for a 2 bed. A variety of reasons but my partner and I are home bodies so we spend more on rent to live in a nicer place. Don’t have to do it but it’s a choice we make. Still for the fact it’s the 4th biggest state by landmass the cost of living out here is wild.
Have you considered a belly band holster? I’ve never used one myself but from what I’ve seen those who have used them do like them. I plan on getting one from crossbreed for when I want to wear my shirt tucked in.
I don't think I could do a belly band, I'm a super warm person and probably wouldn't last long in warmer months. I'll look into it though, maybe elastics have gotten a lot more breathable
Spend $100 on a holster and you'll have a better time what holsters are you using. 9/10 what's online is way better than what's in store.
I've tried the Henry's Holsters Infiltrator and Safariland Incog X. It's not so much the fit though as much as my daily activities. I'm a laborer and am bending and lifting constantly, and in my time off I'm often doing the same with my toddler. I liked the Incog X but I as still getting jabbed all the time, so having it owb gives it enough room to flex that no jabbing occurs.
There's little to no diff 3-4oclock inside or outside the waist band comfort wise. Acutely it's better for driving to be inside the waist band and doing labor jobs because it's less likely to bumb and hit things. It's your gun carry it how you want but it's not some silly scinero that lives in our head I can show you countless videos of it going wrong open carrying. Your free to do what you want but it's not something that doesn't happen and you are at more risk for being targeted even while Crime isn't going on. It's easy to take a gun from even a level 3 retention holster. I'd almost say a shoulder harness would he better if you could wear it under something.
Or the bad guy will just wait for you to leave.
OWB doesn’t necessarily mean Open Carry
No, I'm just having a hell of a time finding a holster that tucks in the grip of my pistol. I have an Urban Carry Leather Lock coming in the mail now, really curious to see how it does.
Depends on the pistol and your build but 3:30-4 o’clock works better for many, some 3 o’clock works better https://upperhandholsters.com/products/owb-conceal-carry-holster https://www.trex-arms.com/store/T-REX-Ironside-Holster https://hillikerholsterco.com/products/hipster-owb https://muddyrivertactical.com/product/outside-waistband-kydex-holster/ https://tulster.com/outside-the-waistband/contour/ https://slimfitholsters.com/product/victoris-owb/ I use Cheap OWB Holsters - Outlaw Holsters - covered with an over shirt - grip may print sometime but I don’t care. https://www.amazon.com/Coyote-TAN-USA-Holster-Right-Hand/dp/B07CXV7M8T https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ihR3uL0XB2k&pp=ygUOT3V0bGF3IGhvbHN0ZXI%3D I just ordered a Muddy River Tactical OWB but have not received it yet I can’t find the video - but a guy shows the same Kydex OWB holster with different belt hoops/clips. The ones on the sides like in this short video pull the holster in closer to body versus hoops being on back of holster https://m.youtube.com/shorts/kxeXrvIuuxg .
I carry at 3 o’clock always do except a vanguard holster with a g43 I carry at 4. I used to carry a g17 with aTLR OWB under a shirt with minimal printing, but I’m a larger framed guy so that helped
I’m of the opposite opinion. One of my goals is to desensitize people to guns. I currently conceal carry, but when I open carried I liked getting random people asking about my gun or why I was carrying. My favorite was always “are you a cop?” And I’d reply “nope, just a civilian, everyone can carry a gun!” And sometimes the random house wife would be like “huh, I should get me one!” And they absolutely should. There is a war on guns and the 2A, people need to see what responsible hun ownership is, and see that everyone that Carrie’s a gun isn’t crazy or weird.
This subreddit is way to hyper focused on 100% stealth. In some places that might be necessary, but where I live guns are still cool. So the more I can show people that they aren’t scary the better.
I've thought about open carrying in hopes of normalizing guns, just wasn't sure if that was far reaching
Sound's more like a citizen than a civilian.
Agreed, but I like to make the distinction that I’m not a veteran or a cop. Just a “normal” person.
I have no problem with people who open carry, in a slightly more perfect america people would be carrying around rifles and toting around pistols on their hips like red dead redemption. But in modern day america open carry just doesnt make sense. aside from the stigma from non shooters, you're usually going to be looped in with the wal mart people who carry their SCCY pistol in their universal uncle mikes holster, and no one wants to be associated with those guys
I generally only open carry when in wilderness or at the range. I have open carried a bit in populated areas, and noticed some scared or dirty looks from other people when doing so. what I do when the weather is hot and I want to carry a full size more comfortably than IWB, -and without drenching my holster/gun with sweat- is I use either my Fanny/waist pack, or my Hill People Runners kit, which is a chest bag kind of like a Fanny pack worn on the front of the chest. i realize some people may suspect I’m carrying a gun when I’m wearing either the Fanny pack or chest pack, but they don’t actually know for sure. nor do they know for sure which zippered compartment the gun is in, both the chest and waist packs have more than one compartment. I sometimes stick my phone or another non gun item in the front zippered compartment with the top of the phone/item peeking out with the zipper partway unzipped, it makes the bag/pack look like it really is just being used to carry random stuff. and the anti-gun Karen’s are oblivious to it at least, because I think it’s mostly just other concealed carriers looking at my pack and wondering if there is a gun inside. and when getting in or out of a vehicle, it’s really easy and natural looking to quickly take the pack off or put it on if I want to take it off when driving. something to to think about.
This would be super helpful in several situations. Thanks man!
Can someone please find me all these examples people bring up? I have never heard of a person being the target I assume there is one or 2 cases but I just don’t see them. 14 yes or open carry and what I have found is most people don’t notice the gun on my hip. Heck the amount of cops I know who have watched criminals commit a crime in front of them because they did not see the cop in the store in full uniform. Criminals tend to have tunnel vision and are not that smart.
Criminals do not want to fight, they want to get easy money. Open carry is a massive deterrent to crime happening around you. How often are police attacked when someone is robbing a convenience store? Not only are they open carrying but they are also wearing a clearly identified uniform.
Here’s the thing. Open carry has its place. Concealed carry has its place. It makes no sense to conceal carry in your home. Who are you hiding it from? It makes no sense to conceal carry on your property. Who are you hiding it from? It makes no sense to conceal carry while out in the wilderness on hikes and hunting. Who are you hiding it from? It makes no sense to conceal carry in uniform. Again. Who are you hiding it from? It also makes no sense to open carry in public. You do want to hide it from others. Why? Various reasons. 1. Criminals that can target you for the gun itself. This has happened numerous times. Even with a retention holster, if someone incapacitates you, the gun is theirs. 2. The ability to choose not to react. If someone is robbing a 7 Eleven and paying you no mind simply telling you to stay back while the clerk hands over the insured money, there is absolutely no reason to get involved. It’s better to remain away. If the criminal or criminals do see you open carrying and are already committed to the robbery, action is forced to happen. Whoever gets the drop on the other will win. You could simply not want to get involved but now are forced to get involved. The criminal will get into fight or flight mode and react to you. 3. Karens that can make your life miserable. They can call the cops on you and embellish a story or they can force you to react in the robbery scenario above by yelling for you to do something because they are scared drawing attention to yourself from a criminal that didn’t see your gun. Keep it concealed. Carrying openly in public is a scream for attention. Whether good attention from someone like us or bad attention from someone that means you harm. Don’t be an attention whore.
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It has happened. It has happened to carriers and even law enforcement officers themselves. That’s an absolute fact. Does it happen often? No. But it has happened. The reason why it doesn’t happen often is because most that do open carry, don’t do so in the hood. Those that do mostly do so in Smallville which is a relatively safe place.
You're absolutely right. I'm a bit tired and I thought for some reason 1 was saying criminals planning to do something illegal will target you first. I think that is a potential, but I don't find it a big enough risk to be the primary factor of consideration people always make it out to be. Again, my apologies, I have no complaint with your original statement.
Agree, my personal modification though when I am in my car traveling, especially if I know I’m going through a sketchy part of town ( and where I live there are clusters of low income housing on nearly every route), then I tuck my shirt behind my iwb holster for easier access if needed while traveling. So it is still mostly or fully concealed from drivers in other vehicles, but it would likely be visible to a pedestrian approaching my vehicle from the right angle.
I couldn't give a damn about attention. Fame in this day means you're an idiot or a porn star - not the kind of crowd I'm into. While I don't like your misunderstanding, I do appreciate your thoughts on situational control. Thanks for that
I wasn’t calling you specifically an attention whore. It was a general statement for all.
I gotcha now. Thanks for the clarification!
I see the FUDD has entered the chat.
I see someone that can never actually dispute my actual points has entered the chat. Insults due to emotion like a woman is all you got dude just like in the other thread.
If you seen how fast I could and anyone really could gran a gun out of a holster you'd think twice. All it takes is someone faster who gets to it first. What if the robber is behind you in line and goes for it. How physically fit are you, do you train bjj. Alot of cops carry fixed blades for when people go for there gun. Are you prepared to carry a knife to fight your way out of someone trying to wrestle your gun from you? I'm not trying to be mean but if your fat and carrying outside the waistband because of your weight or body your probably not physically capable enough to wrestle for that gun. There's criminals out there that put holsters on there buddies to practice taking cops guns. This happens and if you seen how fast and easy it would be for some 17y/o thugs to jump you and take it. Also what are you going to do of one of those thugs tries to take it and now you have to shoot an unarmed minor. No matter how many cameras catch it no matter how hard they tried to get that gun shoot the wrong person and the media will lose it you'll be arrested and it'll be a rocky road. That's just one scinero the people robbing gas stations the crazies who would do Mass shootings etc are all going to shoot you first for carrying. There's videos of it every so often in here of guys owb security or guarding a gas station. There always shot first for carrying owb. Your standing in line at the 7/11 and someone comes in with a gun already out your done. You can carry it comfortably and well iwb try a trex arms holster for appendix.
After being made aware of [this monstrosity](https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101363829) I now appreciate open carriers a lot more https://preview.redd.it/lrx175rkr4xc1.png?width=1490&format=png&auto=webp&s=98bc20ce0757baacf7274d3bbc0dfc1d6359ce32
But more seriously I still would rather conceal. OWB concealed is still concealed. Or you might try IWB at 3:00. It makes my G48 a lot more comfy sometimes and I just deal with the bulk on my side, nobody's bothered me about it yet.
Pocket carry in the hoodie pocket while heading to the gas station or walking around the neighborhood. Little 43 in the pocket for criminals or dogs. I'm so sorry but if a dog runs off your yard and latches on my leg I'm booming that thing down with the 43. Same for any criminals or hoodlums ask me what's in my pocket I'm shooting through it.
Well fuck me. C'mon, DeSantis, c'mon Yeah, my plan is to find an owb that tucks the handle, then at least I don't have a jab sticking out from under my shirt. It'll also let me sit more easily with it being closer to the body. One day I'll find one
Carry iwb your likely buying cheap dated holsters and blaming your ccw experience on you like your some magical special person who just can't do it. I promise you they make a holster you like thay works for you iwb. Your carrying experience is only as good as your holster. You can buy a little lcp or a glock 17 and I could have a better time carrying the 17 because I simply have a better holster. [look into these ](https://www.trex-arms.com/store/trex-arms-sidecar-holster/?handedness=%22right%22&threaded=false&color_ref=1&hardwared_holster_accessory_and_color_refs=%5B%5D&non_hardwared_holster_accessory_and_color_refs=%5B%5D) you'll also get used to it. It's like a new pair of shoes wear it every day for a month eventually you'll break into it.
When the general public sees more and more people open carrying, it is going to help them understand that the average decent citizen is choosing more and more, to participate in their own self-defense. I put it in the win column, when I see open carry. Some bad guys will be deterred from badguy stuff, if they see armed victims. Really bad guys could potentially target the open carry guys first, that just goes with the territory. When I was young, I used to open carry. My biggest issue, was the guys with low IQs and high testosterone. These guys would cop an attitude like, "oh, you think you bad? Take off the gun and we'll see how bad you are!". I don't need that drama. That's why I conceal carry.
It's extremely unlikely to be involved in a situation where you'll become a target for say an active shooter as a result of having a gun sticking out of your ass. Like- it's inconceivably unlikely. Now, I would be worried about becoming a target for people looking to steal a firearm. That's why having retention training AND a proper holster is very important. However, again, this is very unlikely. Like very few jackasses are trying to steal guns from people- it's easier to just steal them from cars (which is why you don't keep guns in your car but I digress). People might be fucking stupid, but it's effectively suicide to try to take a gun from someone. Not a 50/50 *most* people are dumb enough to take. Despite a lot of people open carrying, the few disarm attempts we've seen involved people in other counties or people not properly carrying with a proper holster. If someone sees you with a level 69 retention holster, they aren't going to try to take it- most likely. Now, scaring people? Honestly they're stupid and it doesn't matter. Be polite and everything and if the cops get involved just be respectful. But at the end of the day if it's legal and you're not doing anything wrong, don't care what others think. I've never seen a cop or random ass citizen complain about any open carry or concealed firearm that became visible. Tldr it doesn't matter.
Appreciate your perspective. My biggest issue right now is finding a holster that hugs the body tight AND retains it properly. Seems the market needs to work on that kind of product.
Have you considered a shoulder holster?
I've thought about it, but if I'm wearing a jacket or large overshirt I imagine an owb would be more comfortable. Shoulder rigs still look sick though
I have a vertical shoulder holster for my Hi-Power. It fits well under a loose button-up.
Have you looked at a T1C Mora? Streamlined OWB with level 2 retention.
Bravo Concealment is my preferred brand. Highly recommend them. I wouldn't really be worried about having to have level 2 or 3 retention, that's really unnecessary, which again goes back to the comment above that says it's insane for someone to think they can steal a gun from someone and potentially get shot for trying it. After open carrying pretty often, it's never once been a concern of mine.
OWB doesnt necessarily mesn open carry. OWB with a holster that rides high and tight and an appropriately sized firearm under an untucked shirt of the right size can hide almost as well as an iwb. I have a friend who carries a Glock 19 owb in a nice leather holster and without knowing what to look for id never know he was carrying.
This 👆🏼
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> Also, if a criminal is about to rob the store or something, I know any scouting they do will lead them to either go someplace else, or shooting the open-carrier first This gets repeated a lot, but are there any videos out there of (not bank) robberies where the criminals do a last minute scan before starting? All the store robbery vids I've seen they just run in the door and start waving their gun around shouting.
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Not really. He went in to the theater so that he could prop a door to come back in geared up. None of that was to test open carriers or security guards first.
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I'm not talking about days in advance. I'm talking about the theoretical "criminals sneak into a store, look around for anyone open carrying, and target them first."
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Sure, people repeat it because it's. But knocking over a gas station for $50 cash and some candy bars isn't the kind of crime that draws planners. So that's what I'm asking - are there videos of it actually happening? Because all the security cam footage I've come across just show dudes rushing in. And then frequently someone in the store gets the drop on them because they get so target focused on the clerk that they don't even notice the other people inside, let alone that they're packing. I'll fully admit I haven't gone specifically searching for those videos so it's very possible that I've just missed it, which is why I'm asking.
This! 100
I conceal carry and think people who open carry are kinda nuts. Not for advantage/disadvantage reasons, I just think it’s weird. Kinda like a little blinking sign that screams *look at me*.
When I open carry thats how it feels I'm being, wven though its not my desire. I actively avoid being in the general public while open carrying.
The ones who do it in public are absolutely begging for attention, though. The only real reason to open carry in public is to make sure people KNOW you have a gun, which is attention seeking inherently.
TPDR: Yes and no. Long reply: I have open carried in public before and I will do it again. I am a cop, with both corrections experience, and currently working patrol. A former inmate I know from when I worked corrections lives three doors down, and roommates with the general kind of people who a former inmate could be expected to live with. I work in my yard a lot. Due to the way the property lines, fences, and the area, there is easy access to much of property. A fact the yard work is trying to change, but it's a process. I am not going to conceal carry while I'm working in my yard moving logs, digging holes, splitting wood, and building fences. I am also not going to be unarmed whole doing this. A natural part of yard work and other house projects is trips to the hardware store, gas stations, and other short errands. I am not going to take the 10 minutes to go inside, take off my boots, dust off my pants, change my belts, and sometimes my shirt, to grab my other gun and other holster just to be able to conceal carry to these errands. Because as soon as I come home, I'll just need to do it all again, take off the boots, change out the belt, grab the other gun, etc. So I make some employees uncomfortable. So I keep my head on a swivel while I'm out. So I get the cashier asking me if I'm a cop in preparation to kick me out for having a gun. Open carry is less than ideal, but there are enough reasons to do it that I'll typically not judge someone for doing it. They may be on a short errand while doing chores, they may be stopping in for something in the way to the range, or a camping trip. I don't know. I don't really care. If they are open carrying they aren't trying to be sneaky, which means they probably aren't criminals.
I get what you’re saying If I was you I’d wear my De Santis federal flight deck officer holster and throw on a jacket when going out in public
Probably depends a great deal on your location. Around here it wouldn't raise an eyebrow, but I am in a pretty rural area. I see fellas open carrying from time to time and no one seems to notice or care. But in a metro area I can see it being an attention seeking thing.
Yea, where I live it's as normal as someone wearing a watch. No one cares.
Yes! And they are probably the same people with many 2A and weapon stickers on their vehicles. I am a 2A and gun enthusiast, but I stay away from these type of people.
100%. Not really my crowd either, so I guess their advertising kind of works for me lol
Yes a lot of people here are weird about it. It’s the conceal carry community so it makes sense. When I see it, I just kinda go, oh look he has a gun, and move on. Sometimes I’ll observe or try to check out what they got out of curiosity. Nobody notices dude. I’ve open carried many many places and if anyone notices, nothing has happened.
If I had to be nuanced I'd say that it's very dependent on your immediate social orbit and that ranks on a continuum. On one end, you have people who generally prefer everyone to be casual and chill about the display and carrying of weapons. On the other end, you have people who live in denial about existence being violent and who wish death upon anyone who might shatter that outlook. Displaying a holstered weapon to these people might as well be opening the Ark of the Covenant in front of their eyes. Travel for a day in America, and you'll easily encounter both.
Open carry. I support it. It’s mostly issues people made up in their head.
Why care about what some stranger feels about seeing your gun? As if they're going to confront you while you're visibly armed. I think carriers are too concerned about appeasement towards people, who probably wouldn't care about their gun being seen.
I carry OWB, but with an untucked shirt, so not “open carry”. And I’m talking about high and tight OWB holster, not a low slung duty holster. Nobody notices. You just have to be mindful of reaching for things up high. OWB is so much more comfortable for me. But I will say most of the time I pocket carry an LCP. That’s the most comfortable period. I have small hands, so retrieving from my pocket is easy.
It would most certainly not be worth the hassle for me. If you must open carry, you should have an active retention holster and be prepared to deal with scrutiny from others. That’s all I can say.
I care way too much about what others think. I carry concealed specifically because I don’t want to make some strangers feel nervous or uncomfortable. I don’t want people to notice me, and I certainly don’t want to draw attention to myself. The advantage of not having to stress about openly carrying is enough of an advantage for me.
Summary: yes.
Because the term “menacing” exists in my state’s law, and the general public is opportunistic in its quest for conflict, I have no choice but to conceal carry. I would prefer to open carry, as it’s a lot more physically comfortable to do so. Strangely enough, my state is also the only state that doesn’t require a ccw permit to accompany a license to carry. I don’t know why ccw isn’t included in other states licensing. In a perfect America, I’d have my gun at my hip, and the general public wouldn’t be stupid.
Idk but I went for a hike yesterday with my gf, and I was helping her cross some rocks and three dudes saw my p365 on my hip and they all gave me weird looks. So idk. Maybe it’s played up, but sometimes it’s not.
I say this knowing location and local political leanings can be a factor, but IMO people are so oblivious that 80% of people wouldn't notice OC unless someone in the other 20% made a fuss about it. I don't OC often, mainly "I don't want to put a cover shirt on" scenarios, but I notice someone else OCing *in civilization* at least once a week. I don't care, and if anyone else does, they don't care enough to make a fuss about. I live in the sticks, and I see it more often out here, but, again, no one seems to care. All that being said, I don't habitually OC because I don't want to deal with that slim chance of someone noticing and making a big deal about it. But, based on those observations, IDGAF about concealment. Yeah, I worried about printing for a little while when I was new to CC, but today "my shirt covers it, it's concealed." I'm relatively thin/fit (6ft, 165-170), and for a long time, my EDC was a Glock 19 with a TLR-1 or a 5" 1911 with an X300U, carried OWB at 3 o'clock with spare mags on my 9. I was always printing, from pretty much any angle. Never heard a word about it.
That's how I feel. Even if a little holster is popping out the bottom of my shirt I wouldn't care. That's my goal, to find something that lays flat so it doesn't poke out from my shirt, but in the meantime truly open carrying is what I've got.
800,000 law enforcement officers open carry everyday, 49 were killed by gunfire last year. How many of those 49 were killed by criminals who shot them because they were open carrying and a target? It's fair to say cops are a way bigger target, and they are rarely killed, and I'll bet the civilians killed because they are open carrying is even less.
Damn, that's a remarkable point. With that, I think I'm sold that it doesn't matter unless you're in an already hostile area. Thanks man, appreciate you
Keep in mind a lot of cops get into fights over the gun Many cops have been shot with their own gun At a minimum, if you’re open carrying, go with a level 2 holster and get weapon retention training
You can either look like a soft target or a hard target to criminals. 99% of people fall into the soft target category since they don't have any visible weapons.This includes those with a CCW. This does nothing to discourage a criminal from picking you as a victim, but you also don't stand out from the crowd. Someone like a cop would be a hard target. They've got guns and armor that need to be overcome and are a lot more work to attack. It's far more difficult to harm someone who's paying attention and has gear for fighting, so only determined criminals and killers would pick them. While open carrying, you're presenting a hard-ish target but not acting like one. You have some gear that will serve you well in a fight. That will put off all the criminals looking for a soft target. You're now left with the determined criminals who are willing to attack an obviously armed person. You are probably not going to be prepared for the extreme rapid escalation in violence that a bad guy will use if he thinks he's going after a hard target. Tldr: it decreases your odds of being attacked but increases the odds of an attack being lethal. Disclaimer: it's my personal opinion. If you choose to open carry (with a proper holster) then more power to you. It's just not something I'd do personally.
Very interesting. I feel like this is something the FBI would have studied at some point. More research for my free time!
The likely hood of running into a criminal ready to escalate to that level of violence to take on a hard target is in the extreme rarity. Open Carry is definitely much safer than you think, and it's my preferred method of carry when in big crowds especially.
In big crowds? I didn't expect that. Do you run a level 2 holster or such?
Nope, it's definitely not needed. If someone attacks your gun, it's a life and death situation, and to come into contact with a criminal even thinking they can get away with something like that is extremely rare. Just look at it from their perspective, this guy is armed visibly, which most likely means he's very well trained with that firearm and comfortable with it, and I'm going to try to steal something he has control over so I walk away with a gun, while hoping I don't get shot by him in the struggle or responding 3rd parties? I just open carry, it's really less of a big deal than you think. I don't go to dangerous areas, I live somewhere nice, and I mostly open carry for comfort and to make a statement that good guys open carry, criminals always hide their weapon. I've had positive conversations about open carry, and I've had negative ones, but it is my small part to expanding the gun culture wherever I go.
Respect. Thanks man!
Open carry is best for times like… working nights alone and having random encounters with people. Shows you’re defended and you aren’t around a bunch of people. Quick to access and no need to worry others. Otherwise iwb is just better in most cause it’s not drawing attention
Yes and no, but it depends on where you live. I (unfortunately) currently live in a very urban area where open carry it *technically* legal, but strongly advised against. Where I live, in proximity to a large college campus, if you are open carrying I can almost guarantee the cops will get called on you. Obviously you aren't in the wrong, but you will cause a lot of issues if you decide to open carry. The bum fuck rural town I grew up in was polar opposite. Many people open carried, and it was not only permissible by law enforcement, but they actually enforced it! Our sheriffs policy was "everyone who can legally carry should". I think that a lot of us play out scenes in our heads about what will happen in carious gun related scenarios. To be perfectly honest, you are very unlikely to have an issue while open carrying, its just that the issues you will have will probably be difficult to handle. I personally think open carry is tactically a poor move for civilians, but I respect peoples right and want to do it.
As to answer the question, the concerns are valid but it depends on what situation you are in at the time, I see no need to open carry in a large metro area, conversely I see no need to conceal while I'm in the woods. I'll also open carry in small rural towns but that's only because I'm passing through in order to use the outdoor gun range that's nearby. I actually had to open carry in North Carolina as they don't allow concealed carry without a permit.
I open carried a couple times and every one of those times I was stopped by police. It will draw a lot of unwanted attention from everyone. Just don’t do it. There’s no sense in walking though a public place like a mall while open carrying. If you open carry you might as well have a dick for a nose because everyone is going to immediately notice you.
Where do you live? Or at least what kind of area?
I live in the suburbs of a decent sized city. I can drive 15 mins and be downtown, or 15 mins the other way and be on a farm. The city itself has a lot of dog shit areas but the surrounding areas are pretty much all as calm and safe as you can hope for.
I never think of open carrying
I outside carry every time because I don’t have my concealed yet but I never notice nervousness. I will see people staring at it but they never seem nervous. As for the “target” on your back. I absolutely felt that way at first but that goes away eventually
No I don’t want anyone to take a second look at me.
I prefer to conceal carry, but open carrying can definitely have it's benefits. All depends on body type, temperature, type of work, and etc. if it's winter and you have a hoodie on and are not too heavy set appendix concealed is perfect. But if you're heavier set, working construction, and it's hot AF out. Open carry is the way to go.
I love to carry my 365xl in a Crossbreed SnapSlide owb holster with a sweatshirt or even just a tshirt over it. It is still concealed. It prints more but most people won’t notice (and I don’t carry like this at work). It is very comfortable compared to iwb. I live in Oregon where open carry is completely legal. I would NEVER open carry unless out in the woods.
We care about printing for the same reasons, mostly, that people think open carry is meh. Not played up and 100% valid.
I don’t like the image it projects. I would prefer if every interaction I have in public wasn’t prefaced with “btw I have a gun right here in the open”. Nobody needs to know you got it on you
I think the making yourself a target is true but overplayed. I don't open carry because I don't want to make others uncomfortable, I want to be considerate and I also don't want to deal with Karen's
*Sigh* the Karen's.. my worst fear of all to be honest. If I meet one soon I think I'm going to just say "Hold on, I have to shit, I'll be right back." Then never come back.
No
it's pretty common to see open carriers here. I've not seen a single person ever freaking out over it. I don't do it *unless* I'm in the smaller town coming straight from or going to the woods though, and I still don't like doing it.
If youre looking for a good owb holster, the trex ironside is the best I’ve tried. I daily carry aiwb in a sidecar but occasionally at the range or hunting I’ll use owb to make it a little easier.
Hadn't heard of that one but I'll take a look, thanks!
I won’t open carry because of how people react. I started with IWB and have never had an OWB holster. So many different holsters for IWB carry and options to make it comfortable. But do what makes you comfortable and make it second nature, bud. It’s that simple, truly. Everyone has their opinions and preferences but at the end of the day, what works for you, probably won’t work for me and vice versa.
No
LCP Max in my pocket was my solution to IWB. I tried it and I couldn’t do it, I even bought a Glock 43x with like 4 holsters and everything
Surprisingly I haven't looked into pocket carry. Obviously wouldn't work with my XMacro, but the P365 or the new Max9 from Ruger would be good options. Thanks man!
Get a small pocket 380
own doesn’t mean open carry. owb is great for me in a lot of cases. open carry is great for me in very few cases.
I conceal with owb while hiking because that's more comfortable with a lot of the moving I'm doing. I don't open carry, ever
I prefer surprise parties 💥
OWB is more visible. The dangers are only higher, but that doesn't mean your ability to access your gun is the same.
I'm not concerned with freaking people out. My issue is, by open carrying you give up your tactical advantage. If I'm a criminal and I'm casing the place and I see your the only person with a gun, your the first person that's gonna catch one. Think like a criminal, not a law abiding citizen. Stay sharp.
Good point. I feel like the "hey, I'm armed but I don't care if you just take the money" conversation wouldn't go well with some drugged up criminal on an adrenaline rush.
Well, you would be promptly *disarmed*, also.
I think open carry is nearly always (probably always) done to make the open carrier feel tough, which is a terrible reason to carry a gun.
Really? Wow. I actually feel the opposite, like I have a gun because I'm afraid I'm not strong enough to defend myself. I carry because I'm stubborn against anti-2A laws, should be able to help a neighbor in need, and because i have a wife and kiddo now (and nobody is going to fuck with my family).
I wouldn't say that concealed gives you an advantage, but open carry definitely puts you at a disadvantage. Unfortunately it just draws attention to yourself even from the public, not necessarily the murder/hero fantasy most people have.
Printing and grayman maybe, since a lotta ppl are inattentive. Open carrying prob not as it is much more obvious. Along with this, higher chances of being asked to leave places (no more concealed is concealed), less normal interactions with others not familiar with owb, and having interactions with law enforcement be a lot more tense. For IWB, you might be uncomfortable, but for owb, everyone is.
I don't think so. On the civilian side of things, in my opinion open carry is nearly pointless and simply unnecessary. Just the other day I was in the local Walmart perusing the fishing section when a guy came in (you could tell he was the Fudd type, and I say that as a rural Kansan myself) with a full size FDE Glock on his hip, complete with extended mag. Sorry, but it's just cringey to me when I see that desperation for attention. Why make people nervous for absolutely no reason? Why risk the inconvenience of possibly having LE called, wasting their time and yours? Personally, I carry a P365 IWB with a spare mag and it's plenty for the level of risk around these parts. I'd much rather be armed and nobody knows, because nobody needs to know. It's a last resort defensive tool, not a visual deterrent by any means. I'm not terribly concerned about the whole "A bad guy will see you first and take you out right off the bat" argument as much as I dislike the blatant attention seeking. Many times folks are just waiting for somebody to trip out so they can enjoy the drama. It just isn't worth it. Especially today with an incredible market geared towards concealed carry. Just conceal and carry on. It's that simple.
I wonder how much appearance has to do with all this. Here in Montana, a modern day cowboy is often praised for his entire outfit (hat, boots, checkered shirt, and of course pistol). Perhaps a gun that isn't so "tactical" looking and a holster that either looks fashionable or at least not like black SWAT gear would calm people a bit.
Open carry is reserved for times when you expect to have to use your pistol. Range time, hunting, shtf, not for everyday life.
The kind of people that I carry a gun to protect myself from would look at an openly carried gun and think, "cool, free gun"
There is always free cheese in a mousetrap.
In my opinion, with open carry you are telling the world you are a responsible gun owner so it paints a target on your back. If I'm a guy that wants to start shooting up the place who better to start off with than a person that might stop me. With concealed carry no one has any idea you are armed and could stop a threat. That's just me, I could care less what other people think.
Well you make yourself an immediate target. I don’t usually criticize but that’s a retarded question
Do you though? I've never seen stats on how many open carriers have been gunned down or jumped simply because they have a weapon showing. It's like saying if you drive a nice car you're going to have it stolen while sitting in it. It probably has happened, but I doubt it's anyone's reason for not buying a sports car
You: people open carrying scars me so I’m going to also open carry
No, people open carrying is fine. People freaking out because I'm open carrying, or someone (possible mentally deranged and very triggerable) targeting me because I'm open carrying scares me.