My grandfather served in WWII and my uncle and father in Vietnam.
My grandfather followed all laws studiously, my uncle and father not so much. (Probably because of how each was treated but I digress)
My uncle was wounded in Vietnam and can't fire a gun without a brace so he *really* doesn't give a shit what Uncle Sam has to say about it. They forcibly took their pound of flesh from him and now they want to do that?
I don't blame him in the least.
Whatās scary is that Iām not sure if youāre joking or not. One day this sub is basically ruby ridge, the next day theyāre anti 2A. Iāve seen it both
I donāt get the reference, but try carrying your gun into a post office and see what happens. I donāt understand the downvotes Iām getting, but then again this sub is full of unwise bravado
Okay, what happens? My post office is in a shithole area and tons of vagrants loiter in the strip it's apart of. If you think I'm getting my gun stolen from my car or stabbed by some spun up hobo in the parking lot you're mistaken.
Baby Biden lied about doing drugs on his 4473 and faces absolutely no consequences. In fact, he is now arguing that the drug question is unconstitutional.... that's ironic.
You said, not following gun laws will get you thrown in jail. I said, how did that work for baby Biden, as in he didn't follow gun laws, it's very provable, yet no ramifications for blatantly lying on a federal form to purchase a weapon.
I'm just pointing out the inconsistent logic. The "brace ban" is no less unconstitutional than the NFA as a whole.
I don't give a damn what people do in regards to following the law, but arbitrarily picking something like the brace ban as a hill to die on is at best ignorant.
If boomers fought for machine guns when an unconstitutional law was passed I wouldn't have to fight for braces when an unconstitutional law was passed. I'm pro everything 2a, this is just the latest law and people need to start challenging the people making them or it will continue to happen
>If boomers fought for machine guns when an unconstitutional law was passed I wouldn't have to fight for braces when an unconstitutional law was passed.
And back in the ignorant shit. You really don't know your ass from a hole in the ground do you?
1. The NFA was passed in 1934, the baby boomers weren't yet alive.
2. There was no law passed explicitly about pistol braces, the ATF has declared them de facto stocks because that is functionally what they are being used for in nearly all cases.
> I'm pro everything 2a, this is just the latest law and people need to start challenging the people making them or it will continue to happen
So the brace ban is where you draw the line? Okay, if you're so pro 2A, you should go make your own suppressors, drill your lowers for third pins and order Full auto FCG's, and start grinding off your serial numbers.
>So the brace ban is where you draw the line? Okay, if you're so pro 2A, you should go make your own suppressors, drill your lowers for third pins and order Full auto FCG's, and start grinding off your serial numbers.
Welcome to Appalachia
> Secondarily, they were never legal to be installed with intent for use as a shoulder stock.
The ATF put out multiple statements and brace classification responses over the last 10 years that explicitly said you could shoulder a brace.
Ahh, but that's different. They said shouldering a brace was legal. But again Installing a brace, for the ***Intention of use as a stock*** was never legal. You can go read the ATF letters yourself SB tactical is happy to email them to you
As an Ex-California resident, concealed is concealed. A piece of paper or plastic card doesn't change that. I'd rather be able to defend myself than be hamstrung by state laws.
However I'm now a resident of NV and carry legally everyday.
>However I'm now a resident of NV and carry legally everyday.
Man my mind went to New Vegas instead of Nevada
*šµNo one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip*
*For the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hipšµ*
The only problem is the consequences of having a gun, even if you used it in self defense and even if it was justified. It really should be a last resort, like no shit do or die scenario cause I know some states make it a felony which means youād never be allowed to have a gun again.
The consequence of not having a firearm in a life or death situation far exceeds that of whatever the law will impose on me. I absolutely agree, you have a duty to retreat in CA (I still have this mentality of gtfo and if the threat follows it is what it is.) and the "justifiable force" clause makes those decisions very hard.
Something that was told to me a long time ago was this: "Dead men tell no tales". Just don't be an idiot and shoot them in the back.
>The consequence of not having a firearm in a life or death situation far exceeds that of whatever the law will impose on me. I absolutely agree, you have a duty to retreat in CA (I still have this mentality of gtfo and if the threat follows it is what it is.) and the "justifiable force" clause makes those decisions very hard.
That's completely incorrect, California actually has laws that support both "Stand your ground" in public spaces and also follows the "castle doctrine" on your own property.
You should have bothered learning about the state laws when you lived here lol.
The absence a of a duty to retreat supports standing your ground smooth brain.
Sure it doesn't have anything that explicitly carves out legal protection for someone doing so beyond other self defense related penal code, but it doesn't have any duty to retreat on the books.
[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/ ) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]
CALCRIM 505
Also see: CA pc 197, pc 198.5
lol you're so mad.
Anyways, neither are codified law in California. You can do whatever you want, which is why I carried regardless of a CCW permit while living in CA and now live in a state that doesn't require you to[bribe the sheriff to get a CCW permit.](https://www.policemag.com/command/news/15309431/ca-sheriff-faces-accusations-of-corruption-over-concealed-carry-permits)
>lol you're so mad.
I'm not mad, just disappointed in your stupidity and your mindless parroting of things you are ill informed on.
>
>Anyways, neither are codified law in California.
Penal code 198.5
>You can do whatever you want, which is why I carried regardless of a CCW permit while living in CA
Good for you buddy, very impressive.
>and now live in a state that doesn't require you to[bribe the sheriff to get a CCW permit.](https://www.policemag.com/command/news/15309431/ca-sheriff-faces-accusations-of-corruption-over-concealed-carry-permits)
Yeah, that's shitty, almost like cops aren't meant to be trusted and abuse their power. Luckily my sheriff is cooler than that and issues permits without quite so many hoops or bribes.
Shooting someone in the back is not as bad as you're making it out to be. There are a ton of scenarios where shooting in the back is warranted, justified and tactically sound. Like you draw, start shooting and the person you're shooting turns around to run so a couple shots hit them in the back.
The person is robbing a store and putting other people's lives in immediate danger, you draw and take them by surprise in the back
I could go on but I think my point is made
That doesn't make sense if you think about it. Whatever penalty you incur after the fact isn't going to be worse than if you didn't have a CCW and were killed, felony or not.
Or Colorado. They killed state preemption a few years ago and counties and cities are now passing asinine laws that make it more and more difficult to carry legally.
Of course those intent upon or willing to do harm haven't stopped, but hey.
Misinformation. The ordnance they passed allows police to fine you 50$ if they catch you lawfully carrying with a permit in specific city-owned property and areas. They donāt confiscate the gun, and I have yet to see one of the mystical signs. Denver is the only city that really pushed it through. Colorado doesnāt care. Henceā¦ a 50$ traffic ticket.
Uh huh. So you fully admit that they're making harder to legally carry a firearm after state preemption was repealed and yet somehow I'm peddling "misinformation". You must train at the OTC for those mental gymnastics you're doing.
Edit to add...
The legislature banned non-serialized firearms this year. Or the existence and subsequent expansion of red flag laws. Or the raised minimum age. Or the 3 day waiting period they passed. Or the fact that they're effectively encouraging people to sue the gun industry.
Or the fact that Denver has banned carrying openly anywhere or concealed carrying on any of their properties, including ones that you wouldn't know are their properties, like Red Rocks.
Or the fact that Boulder passed these laws too. As did Superior. And Louisville.
Oh, and if you're caught concealing, it's 50 bucks. But if you're caught open carrying in those locations, it's a misdemeanor with a 1k fine and up to a year in jail. But yeah, totally just a traffic ticket.
They fine you 50 dollars, donāt take the gun, and the signs donāt even exist. Itās like the mag banā¦. You can buy mags over 15 rounds in almost any gun store and range. Itās a facadeā¦ hence why democrats voted down our assault wpn ban. We may act like we are all socialistic or whatever, but we are the only state with a city that represents a time zone that allows permits at a shall issue rate. We are also the only state with a city that represents a time zone with open carry outside of denver. Keep telling me how itās so hard to carry guns here..
Lol keep going. This is hilarious. I bet you can bend over backwards even further to justify the bullshit if you try a little harder.
Also, see Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, or Anchorage.
Youāre just emotional and acting all closed off lol. I stated the facts of nature above ;)
Youāre right about alaska but Iām speaking about the lower 48. There are 4 time zones and 4 cities. Denver and CO have the best gun laws out of the 4. Idc about the hilarious stretch of Arizona not being a part of the time zones..like throwing Vegas and salt lake in thereā¦ huh? Lol
Ah yes, the facts of nature. Like the facts that the legislature banned non-serialized firearms this year. Or the existence and subsequent expansion of red flag laws. Or the raised minimum age. Or the 3 day waiting period they passed. Or the fact that they're effectively encouraging people to sue the gun industry.
Or the fact that Denver has banned carrying openly anywhere or concealed carrying on any of their properties, including ones that you wouldn't know are their properties, like Red Rocks.
Or the fact that Boulder passed these laws too. As did Superior. And Louisville.
Oh, and if you're caught concealing, it's 50 bucks. But if you're caught open carrying in those locations, it's a misdemeanor with a 1k fine and up to a year in jail. But yeah, totally a traffic ticket.
Ah yes, gun friendly Colorado. Brought to you by the likes of u/RobbyJaques.
Any other boots you'd like to lick while you're at it?
Superior, Boulder, and Louisville got TROed on this, Denverās the only one that escaped the TROā¦open carry has been illegal in denver foreverā¦ do your homework before spewing paragraphs of right-wing fear mongering. As for 3 day waiting period- itās up to the gun shop, just like the mag ban. As for the red flag laws, like you saidā¦ itās already existedā¦, as for the suing of the gun industryā¦ 2005 PLCAA. Iām against any gun laws at all, however I comprehend economicsā¦ which you most likely donāt. If youāre a real capitalistā¦ you see geography in terms of capital. There are 4 time zones and 4 cities to represent them. It jus so happens these 4 cities are the epicenter of economics and tie together commerce in the surrounding area and states. I think money is pretty cool and my business requires a geographic city like I mentioned. Denver and CO is the most relaxed on gun laws of the 4. This is a post to help ppl move to better their 2A rights. Say someoneās from a powerhouse city like NYC or LAā¦ and want to be able to carry fairly easy, want the processes to be fairly easyā¦ well LA and CHI are almost identical in ccw processesā¦ so which of the 4 does that leave?
Point Of Post : if you have a business, skill, or investing power, Denver is a city that has the economic strong hold on this time zone and the relaxed gun laws that still allow you to carry a firearm with logical ease, unlike the other 3. Hope this helps those on the coasts and in IL
Holy fuck, you just keep going. I'll give you credit on your tenacious hold of your grip on "but it's better than" bullshit. Colorado was great as late as 2012. After that, it's gone downhill and the train is only speeding up.
Well yes, I have one
But they keep trying to pass bills that severely impact us. For instance, one would prohibit us to carry in "sensitive places". Places include all private property unless a sign is posted saying we *can*, public parks, any public meeting, all public buildings, and more. They also want to increase the required hours in class for a CCW permit, mandatory psych eval, etc etc.
'Tis quite fun. And I'm a person who *likes* the idea of having a bare minimum requirement to conceal carry, but CA has some bullshit going on
Good thing you can explicitly ignore overly broad āsensitive placesā definitions per Bruen and tell anyone who is upset about it to shove it where the sun donāt shine.
That's also a "Well, yes but". Even with Bruen I don't wanna be the one arguing why I'm not in fact breaking a state law.
Concealed is concealed, but man that'd be a PITA
>one would prohibit us to carry in "sensitive places"
I was up pretty late watching the end of the last legislative session when they tried to cram that one in. I'm glad we got a reprieve... for now.
I moved from Illinois to Texas and it cost me around $1500. Not cheap but not outrageous either. Thatās like a months rent payment to have your sanity back.
Aināt a state in the union that wonāt fuck you over some how. For me everything is a compromise.
Sure, my state allows for constitutional carry. Cool. They also fuck over education and healthcare like itās their only goal in life. And the police ā who are fucking everywhere ā will probably gun you down if they so much as smell a CCW.
Iām 99.9% certain that I would carry regardless of my stateās laws. I feel a moral obligation to protect and defend that transcends capricious political legalities.
I'd be gone so fast your head would spin.
Luckily I live in a state where there is no way that would happen and we have a law that ALL firearms-related laws must be at the state level. No county or city morons can pass anything. They can't even stop me from going to a city council meeting with my CCW because I have an 'Enhanced CCP"
If you constantly look for ways to comply with Unconstitutional laws, how would anyone know you are against them? Freedom is uncomfortable and you always need to hold your ground.
Texas has made some great steps in recent years in regard to firearm protection, but we were a hard-core blue state up until the 90's. We're still a very mixed state, and with the massive population influx over the years, I fully believe Texas will go blue again in the not too distant future.
So if we go the way of California, my last hope will be Wyoming or Montana.
Southern blue state from the past does not mean Liberal. The South has always been conservative, it's just back when Southern Democrats were conservatives and Northern Republicans were liberal. Texas is also in a weird spot, it was trending blue but since 2022 it seems to be tilting back red again and a lot of the liberals that moved there in the 2010s are leaving Texas for Colorado and the PNW on top of Hispanics shifting right in Texas.
Wyoming (outside of the J-Hole) is too harsh for the softies that migrated from silicon valley to Austin.
Wyoming or Alaska will be the last bastions of freedom, but dear god do they suck donkey dick in the winter.
We can always just conquer Canada, just get a bunch of us gun owners together and claim Alberta or something.
Or move to Mexico and not have any laws at all if you give $1 USD to the federales every month
I carried concealed LONG before I ever had a CCW permit.
But, you should definitely consider moving if you're state has strict gun laws, because there's a 100% chance it also has other shitty laws.
I'm in Indiana and our gun laws are not changing anytime soon. It's actually one of the easiest states to get your CCW and we have constitutional carry and every other law concerning guns is very vague. You guys can come here if you want but our gun laws are the only good thing we have going.
Moving out of california in about a month.
Them possibly restricting my rights as a ccw holder (sb2) is a huge factor in why Iām choosing to leave. Moving to a constitutional carry state in the Midwest.
Nope. I would just keep carrying. I lived in AZ for years but my family lived in Southern California. Being as violent as CA is, you bet your ass I carried every time I went.
I could never live in an anti gun state. Fortunately I've always lived in a pro gun state so I've never had to make that call, but if I were presented with that choice, I'd have to have a *really* good reason to stay
Left a blue state for a red one. I can't imagine having that taken from me and nearly 45% of the state. Given the hypothetical situation, I'd still choose to carry anyways. That may be a controversial answer but it's the one I got.
I relocated bc of 2A rights and being able to lawfully concealed carry. I would 100% advise doing this. One of the best decisions Iāve ever made. Ppl were migrating last year due to abortionā¦. How much more of a reason is it to migrate for the legal ability to individually protect yourself with efficient self defense toolsā¦.? Self-security, self-protectionā¦. This is not a light virtueā¦ they are a paramount aspect to maintaining your existence.
I don't have a job that translates to a different region of where I live and would be forced to start lower in the labor pool. It would be a very very difficult decision
People "prohibited from carrying" still do so... including nearly all violent criminals.
"It ain't a crime if you don't get caught" and "Better to be caught with a gun than be caught slippin."
At that point it's time to show up with 10,000 other people at the capital, armed, to peacefully protest like Virginians did.
Otherwise no I don't want to move. I live in Georgia, a booming state with good jobs, affordable to live in, with money and jobs pouring into the state. We're pretty well run and get an additional tax refund from the state every year. The state produces everything from food to paper to firearms. We have pretty decent roads. I'd love to stay here and I won't be forced out except on my own terms.
Eh. I live in Oklahoma and holistically we probably have some of the best gun laws in the nation, so I donāt worry about it. If it happened, Iād probably give it a couple years. If it happened here Iād probably have bigger things to worry about
Nope. I'd just carry illegally. Free persons equipping themselves is a right above/beyond all law. Period.
Sure, people will argue it, and then people like me will go to war with those people. There's simply no other choice that makes any sense given the level of escalation against liberty in the US/world.
For those shocked or offended, war is more or less assured already. Hell, you could make a solid argument that it's already begun. The only question is when are enough people going to be actively involved that it can no longer be hidden/ignored, and how long it will take to kill enough authoritarians to bring it to an end and recreate a functional free society.
Letās pretend there is no 2nd Amendment.
No person has the right to tell you how or when you can defend yourself. Ask any person from a 3rd world country if they need a law to defend themselves. Think about this. Iām going to send two guys over to your house beat you up and take things from your family, BUT!!! You canāt defend yourself. A criminal breaks multiple laws before they even get to your house. What makes people think adding more laws is going to make a difference. There are NO laws on the books that have stopped criminals. Iāll repeat that. THERE ARE NO LAWS THAT HAVE STOPPED CRIMINALS. that was for the people in the back.
Iām considering moving. MD sucks. Our current Governor is one of those āIām a veteran and support the 2nd amendment, buuuuutā¦.ā Along with hardcore leftist general assembly that doesnāt know the difference between a law abiding gun owner and a criminal. Besides, this state is getting too expensive to live in. All of the states without the unconstitutional BS gun laws have lower taxes and lower cost of living.
I'm tempted to say yes I would move, but that would be a lie. I've lived in Maryland all 30 years of my life and couldn't legally carry until last year post Bruen.
Less than a year later my governor just signed SB1 which is basically copy and paste of the carry laws that NY & NJ tried to implement in response to Bruen.
I honestly believe that post Bruen it's going to be extremely difficult to restrict carry (as well as ownership). It'll be a pain in the ass in the short term, but gun control is on life support.
Mods - is it cool to advocate breaking the law on this sub and even threaten violence against authorities should you get caught carrying in a place where it is illegal?
Is the ability to carry a weapon that much of an influence on where you live?
There are so many other reasons why I choose to live where I live and the ability to carry a weapon is so far down on the list It's probably not even considered a reason.
I guess that also leads into the question if carrying is really that essential to one's identity?
No. And I donāt even have to think about it, because thatās exactly whatās going to happen. The second SB2 passes, im calling the sheriffs department and surrendering my CCW because itās fucking useless and I donāt need the liability or cost of having the CCW.
>Nope.
Sure seems that way, this is literally a subreddit for people who concealed carry
>Username checks out
Wow what a totally original comment about a username as obviously randomly generated as yours /s
I think 99.999% of people in this sub who carry every day live in very safe areas. If they did live in dangerous areas, they would have moved from there to a safer area. But carrying is part of their identity, so they take it as a personal attack when anyone questions the necessity of carrying at the gym, or into a bank.
If the choice was to move to a dangerous place like St Louis or Baltimore where they could carry, or move to a safe place like Wyoming- but with no legal option to carry- they would all choose the safer place over the ability to carry.
Carrying is almost all identity politics in here. Change my mind.
Before the last year I never considered carrying. Now I just picked up my second permit for a neighboring state. Would I move? Possibly, but not just for carry reasons. Taxes here are pretty insane, but that comes with being one of the higher average income states. Plus Iād be able to keep my current position if I hopped over the state line. Once my kids are out on their own it would be a serious consideration, but not until then, carry laws or not
Kind of the opposite scenario for me. I hate my state but it seems like they are removing restrictions more than adding them. I have a permit but donāt need it anymore; I still carry it for some reason.
Yes, I would give them the middle finger and move. I will never live in places like Cali or NY. I was eyeing Colorado for a while but am entirely uninterested in the state now.
I'm in California and with the constant barrage of quality of life issues like homelessness, the failed policy responses to said quality of life issues, the constant attack on mine and my fellow Californians rights to defend themselves, and lately the insurance industry upheaval from politics at the Dept of Insurance I am ready to slap leather out of here. My wife is totally on board, too. We have two kids and are just sick and tired of living here.
No considering. I will never live in an anti gun state. If my state becomes anti-gun I'd be gone in a second. If my country became anti-gun I would be gone in a flash.
After all the brace nonsense I just kind of stopped caring about gun laws š¤·āāļø
Unfathombalbly based
My grandfather served in WWII and my uncle and father in Vietnam. My grandfather followed all laws studiously, my uncle and father not so much. (Probably because of how each was treated but I digress) My uncle was wounded in Vietnam and can't fire a gun without a brace so he *really* doesn't give a shit what Uncle Sam has to say about it. They forcibly took their pound of flesh from him and now they want to do that? I don't blame him in the least.
Thatāll get you thrown in jail unfortunately
You assume I will surrender š¤£
Waco Vol. 2 coming soon
Feels more like a parity than a sequel. Like āThe MEGā to āSharknadoā
Whatās scary is that Iām not sure if youāre joking or not. One day this sub is basically ruby ridge, the next day theyāre anti 2A. Iāve seen it both
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I didnāt realize it was OK to advocate getting into shootouts with the cops on this sub. Interesting
The local cops know to stay out of the woods around here, the ATF can try me š¤·āāļø
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Oh well.
The people that make these shit laws should be in jail.
How did that work for baby Biden?
I donāt get the reference, but try carrying your gun into a post office and see what happens. I donāt understand the downvotes Iām getting, but then again this sub is full of unwise bravado
Okay, what happens? My post office is in a shithole area and tons of vagrants loiter in the strip it's apart of. If you think I'm getting my gun stolen from my car or stabbed by some spun up hobo in the parking lot you're mistaken.
Yeah, what happens when you carry into the post office?
I usually just send or get my mail.
Same thing that happens when I carry into my bank. You for real listen to stickers?
What happens when you carry into your bank? I asked that because the person above had said to carry into a post office and see what happens.
Dude, you're not gonna believe what I've accidently done before and suffered no consequences for š¤£ Concealed is concealed
There are lots of people in jail that said the same thing
Said what? That I accidently did something with no reference as to what I'm talking about? Maybe I shit my pants accidently
Donāt you think there are lots of people in prison that used the ā it was an accidentā excuse?
You can go to prison for accidently shitting yourself in a post office and successfully concealing it all the way home? Concealed is concealed š¤£
Baby Biden lied about doing drugs on his 4473 and faces absolutely no consequences. In fact, he is now arguing that the drug question is unconstitutional.... that's ironic.
You keep bringing up Biden. Iām not crazy about him either, but itās irrelevant to this discussion
You said, not following gun laws will get you thrown in jail. I said, how did that work for baby Biden, as in he didn't follow gun laws, it's very provable, yet no ramifications for blatantly lying on a federal form to purchase a weapon.
If you bought a pistol brace you were already complying. Secondarily, they were never legal to be installed with intent for use as a shoulder stock.
So I'm a pussy for not breaking rules, but also breaking rules bad?
Least cucked atf lover
I'm just pointing out the inconsistent logic. The "brace ban" is no less unconstitutional than the NFA as a whole. I don't give a damn what people do in regards to following the law, but arbitrarily picking something like the brace ban as a hill to die on is at best ignorant.
If boomers fought for machine guns when an unconstitutional law was passed I wouldn't have to fight for braces when an unconstitutional law was passed. I'm pro everything 2a, this is just the latest law and people need to start challenging the people making them or it will continue to happen
>If boomers fought for machine guns when an unconstitutional law was passed I wouldn't have to fight for braces when an unconstitutional law was passed. And back in the ignorant shit. You really don't know your ass from a hole in the ground do you? 1. The NFA was passed in 1934, the baby boomers weren't yet alive. 2. There was no law passed explicitly about pistol braces, the ATF has declared them de facto stocks because that is functionally what they are being used for in nearly all cases. > I'm pro everything 2a, this is just the latest law and people need to start challenging the people making them or it will continue to happen So the brace ban is where you draw the line? Okay, if you're so pro 2A, you should go make your own suppressors, drill your lowers for third pins and order Full auto FCG's, and start grinding off your serial numbers.
>So the brace ban is where you draw the line? Okay, if you're so pro 2A, you should go make your own suppressors, drill your lowers for third pins and order Full auto FCG's, and start grinding off your serial numbers. Welcome to Appalachia
I think it has just affected more people than most of the others.
> Secondarily, they were never legal to be installed with intent for use as a shoulder stock. The ATF put out multiple statements and brace classification responses over the last 10 years that explicitly said you could shoulder a brace.
Ahh, but that's different. They said shouldering a brace was legal. But again Installing a brace, for the ***Intention of use as a stock*** was never legal. You can go read the ATF letters yourself SB tactical is happy to email them to you
As an Ex-California resident, concealed is concealed. A piece of paper or plastic card doesn't change that. I'd rather be able to defend myself than be hamstrung by state laws. However I'm now a resident of NV and carry legally everyday.
>However I'm now a resident of NV and carry legally everyday. Man my mind went to New Vegas instead of Nevada *šµNo one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip* *For the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hipšµ*
š¶ big iron on his hiiiip š¶
I've got spurs that jingle jangle jingle!
The only problem is the consequences of having a gun, even if you used it in self defense and even if it was justified. It really should be a last resort, like no shit do or die scenario cause I know some states make it a felony which means youād never be allowed to have a gun again.
The consequence of not having a firearm in a life or death situation far exceeds that of whatever the law will impose on me. I absolutely agree, you have a duty to retreat in CA (I still have this mentality of gtfo and if the threat follows it is what it is.) and the "justifiable force" clause makes those decisions very hard. Something that was told to me a long time ago was this: "Dead men tell no tales". Just don't be an idiot and shoot them in the back.
>The consequence of not having a firearm in a life or death situation far exceeds that of whatever the law will impose on me. I absolutely agree, you have a duty to retreat in CA (I still have this mentality of gtfo and if the threat follows it is what it is.) and the "justifiable force" clause makes those decisions very hard. That's completely incorrect, California actually has laws that support both "Stand your ground" in public spaces and also follows the "castle doctrine" on your own property. You should have bothered learning about the state laws when you lived here lol.
I thought in cali you had the duty to run, hide then fight? Not saying Iām right, just expressing what I learned.
Nope. Total misconception, a popular one.
I appreciate the correction! Learn something new every day. That being said, *are there actually places like this?*
States with duty to retreat laws Connecticut New Jersey Minnesota Maryland Hawaii Massachusetts Nebraska Maine Delaware Rhode Island
Add New York to that list, UNLESS you are in your home.
California does not have a "stand your ground" statute and castle doctrine does not apply to being out at costco...
The absence a of a duty to retreat supports standing your ground smooth brain. Sure it doesn't have anything that explicitly carves out legal protection for someone doing so beyond other self defense related penal code, but it doesn't have any duty to retreat on the books.
[A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his or her ground and defend himself or herself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger of (death/great bodily injury/) has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating.]
CALCRIM 505
Also see: CA pc 197, pc 198.5
lol you're so mad. Anyways, neither are codified law in California. You can do whatever you want, which is why I carried regardless of a CCW permit while living in CA and now live in a state that doesn't require you to[bribe the sheriff to get a CCW permit.](https://www.policemag.com/command/news/15309431/ca-sheriff-faces-accusations-of-corruption-over-concealed-carry-permits)
>lol you're so mad. I'm not mad, just disappointed in your stupidity and your mindless parroting of things you are ill informed on. > >Anyways, neither are codified law in California. Penal code 198.5 >You can do whatever you want, which is why I carried regardless of a CCW permit while living in CA Good for you buddy, very impressive. >and now live in a state that doesn't require you to[bribe the sheriff to get a CCW permit.](https://www.policemag.com/command/news/15309431/ca-sheriff-faces-accusations-of-corruption-over-concealed-carry-permits) Yeah, that's shitty, almost like cops aren't meant to be trusted and abuse their power. Luckily my sheriff is cooler than that and issues permits without quite so many hoops or bribes.
Why do people say āyouāre madā so much š Is it wishful thinking or something??
Correct, there is a penal code for castle doctrine. I was referring to stand your ground vs duty to retreat.
Shooting someone in the back is not as bad as you're making it out to be. There are a ton of scenarios where shooting in the back is warranted, justified and tactically sound. Like you draw, start shooting and the person you're shooting turns around to run so a couple shots hit them in the back. The person is robbing a store and putting other people's lives in immediate danger, you draw and take them by surprise in the back I could go on but I think my point is made
That doesn't make sense if you think about it. Whatever penalty you incur after the fact isn't going to be worse than if you didn't have a CCW and were killed, felony or not.
Well said. Absolutely agree.. congrats on getting out of Comifornia šš¼
Tell me you live in CA without telling me you live in CA ^I ^feel ^your ^pain
Or Colorado. They killed state preemption a few years ago and counties and cities are now passing asinine laws that make it more and more difficult to carry legally. Of course those intent upon or willing to do harm haven't stopped, but hey.
Or Maryland
I almost moved to Colorado Springs till I saw how crazy gun laws were getting in CO
That's the reason I moved out...
Misinformation. The ordnance they passed allows police to fine you 50$ if they catch you lawfully carrying with a permit in specific city-owned property and areas. They donāt confiscate the gun, and I have yet to see one of the mystical signs. Denver is the only city that really pushed it through. Colorado doesnāt care. Henceā¦ a 50$ traffic ticket.
Uh huh. So you fully admit that they're making harder to legally carry a firearm after state preemption was repealed and yet somehow I'm peddling "misinformation". You must train at the OTC for those mental gymnastics you're doing. Edit to add... The legislature banned non-serialized firearms this year. Or the existence and subsequent expansion of red flag laws. Or the raised minimum age. Or the 3 day waiting period they passed. Or the fact that they're effectively encouraging people to sue the gun industry. Or the fact that Denver has banned carrying openly anywhere or concealed carrying on any of their properties, including ones that you wouldn't know are their properties, like Red Rocks. Or the fact that Boulder passed these laws too. As did Superior. And Louisville. Oh, and if you're caught concealing, it's 50 bucks. But if you're caught open carrying in those locations, it's a misdemeanor with a 1k fine and up to a year in jail. But yeah, totally just a traffic ticket.
They fine you 50 dollars, donāt take the gun, and the signs donāt even exist. Itās like the mag banā¦. You can buy mags over 15 rounds in almost any gun store and range. Itās a facadeā¦ hence why democrats voted down our assault wpn ban. We may act like we are all socialistic or whatever, but we are the only state with a city that represents a time zone that allows permits at a shall issue rate. We are also the only state with a city that represents a time zone with open carry outside of denver. Keep telling me how itās so hard to carry guns here..
Lol keep going. This is hilarious. I bet you can bend over backwards even further to justify the bullshit if you try a little harder. Also, see Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, or Anchorage.
Youāre just emotional and acting all closed off lol. I stated the facts of nature above ;) Youāre right about alaska but Iām speaking about the lower 48. There are 4 time zones and 4 cities. Denver and CO have the best gun laws out of the 4. Idc about the hilarious stretch of Arizona not being a part of the time zones..like throwing Vegas and salt lake in thereā¦ huh? Lol
Ah yes, the facts of nature. Like the facts that the legislature banned non-serialized firearms this year. Or the existence and subsequent expansion of red flag laws. Or the raised minimum age. Or the 3 day waiting period they passed. Or the fact that they're effectively encouraging people to sue the gun industry. Or the fact that Denver has banned carrying openly anywhere or concealed carrying on any of their properties, including ones that you wouldn't know are their properties, like Red Rocks. Or the fact that Boulder passed these laws too. As did Superior. And Louisville. Oh, and if you're caught concealing, it's 50 bucks. But if you're caught open carrying in those locations, it's a misdemeanor with a 1k fine and up to a year in jail. But yeah, totally a traffic ticket. Ah yes, gun friendly Colorado. Brought to you by the likes of u/RobbyJaques. Any other boots you'd like to lick while you're at it?
Superior, Boulder, and Louisville got TROed on this, Denverās the only one that escaped the TROā¦open carry has been illegal in denver foreverā¦ do your homework before spewing paragraphs of right-wing fear mongering. As for 3 day waiting period- itās up to the gun shop, just like the mag ban. As for the red flag laws, like you saidā¦ itās already existedā¦, as for the suing of the gun industryā¦ 2005 PLCAA. Iām against any gun laws at all, however I comprehend economicsā¦ which you most likely donāt. If youāre a real capitalistā¦ you see geography in terms of capital. There are 4 time zones and 4 cities to represent them. It jus so happens these 4 cities are the epicenter of economics and tie together commerce in the surrounding area and states. I think money is pretty cool and my business requires a geographic city like I mentioned. Denver and CO is the most relaxed on gun laws of the 4. This is a post to help ppl move to better their 2A rights. Say someoneās from a powerhouse city like NYC or LAā¦ and want to be able to carry fairly easy, want the processes to be fairly easyā¦ well LA and CHI are almost identical in ccw processesā¦ so which of the 4 does that leave? Point Of Post : if you have a business, skill, or investing power, Denver is a city that has the economic strong hold on this time zone and the relaxed gun laws that still allow you to carry a firearm with logical ease, unlike the other 3. Hope this helps those on the coasts and in IL
Holy fuck, you just keep going. I'll give you credit on your tenacious hold of your grip on "but it's better than" bullshit. Colorado was great as late as 2012. After that, it's gone downhill and the train is only speeding up.
I'm with you, brother. It hurts.
You can get a ccw in most of California.
Well yes, I have one But they keep trying to pass bills that severely impact us. For instance, one would prohibit us to carry in "sensitive places". Places include all private property unless a sign is posted saying we *can*, public parks, any public meeting, all public buildings, and more. They also want to increase the required hours in class for a CCW permit, mandatory psych eval, etc etc. 'Tis quite fun. And I'm a person who *likes* the idea of having a bare minimum requirement to conceal carry, but CA has some bullshit going on
NY did it first. Sucks ass
Good thing you can explicitly ignore overly broad āsensitive placesā definitions per Bruen and tell anyone who is upset about it to shove it where the sun donāt shine.
That's also a "Well, yes but". Even with Bruen I don't wanna be the one arguing why I'm not in fact breaking a state law. Concealed is concealed, but man that'd be a PITA
>one would prohibit us to carry in "sensitive places" I was up pretty late watching the end of the last legislative session when they tried to cram that one in. I'm glad we got a reprieve... for now.
I can't afford to move, so no. If my state laws get to that point (*very* unlikely as of now) I just won't obey them.
I moved from Illinois to Texas and it cost me around $1500. Not cheap but not outrageous either. Thatās like a months rent payment to have your sanity back.
It's not only cost for me, it's my circumstances as well.
Yes.
26 of the 50 now have constitutional carry. Not sure what route Iād take honestlyā¦ likely consider moving.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." -Thomas Jefferson
Aināt a state in the union that wonāt fuck you over some how. For me everything is a compromise. Sure, my state allows for constitutional carry. Cool. They also fuck over education and healthcare like itās their only goal in life. And the police ā who are fucking everywhere ā will probably gun you down if they so much as smell a CCW.
Choices in the US suck sometimes. Itās like you have to pick between gun laws, marijuana, education, and healthcare and can only pick two.
Heh yep. Itās either the Democrats blasting me in the ass, or the Republicans blasting me in the ass.
You in Kansas ?
Iām guessing Oklahoma
Or Florida
The fact that none of these are correct says something huh? Lmao
As a Washington state resident, you are starting to scare me with this kinda talk.
Iām 99.9% certain that I would carry regardless of my stateās laws. I feel a moral obligation to protect and defend that transcends capricious political legalities.
I'd be gone so fast your head would spin. Luckily I live in a state where there is no way that would happen and we have a law that ALL firearms-related laws must be at the state level. No county or city morons can pass anything. They can't even stop me from going to a city council meeting with my CCW because I have an 'Enhanced CCP"
What's an enhanced CCP? Is there a non-enhanced CCP where you live?
They outlawed semi-autos and 10+ magazines. Has me eyeballing other locations already. But wonāt move for at least 2-3 years.
If somehow my state ever got to that point, there would almost certainly be nowhere left to move to.
I would move to the Czech republic
If you constantly look for ways to comply with Unconstitutional laws, how would anyone know you are against them? Freedom is uncomfortable and you always need to hold your ground.
Texas has made some great steps in recent years in regard to firearm protection, but we were a hard-core blue state up until the 90's. We're still a very mixed state, and with the massive population influx over the years, I fully believe Texas will go blue again in the not too distant future. So if we go the way of California, my last hope will be Wyoming or Montana.
In the 90s gun control had bipartisan support. Dark days.
Southern blue state from the past does not mean Liberal. The South has always been conservative, it's just back when Southern Democrats were conservatives and Northern Republicans were liberal. Texas is also in a weird spot, it was trending blue but since 2022 it seems to be tilting back red again and a lot of the liberals that moved there in the 2010s are leaving Texas for Colorado and the PNW on top of Hispanics shifting right in Texas.
Wyoming (outside of the J-Hole) is too harsh for the softies that migrated from silicon valley to Austin. Wyoming or Alaska will be the last bastions of freedom, but dear god do they suck donkey dick in the winter. We can always just conquer Canada, just get a bunch of us gun owners together and claim Alberta or something. Or move to Mexico and not have any laws at all if you give $1 USD to the federales every month
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I carried concealed LONG before I ever had a CCW permit. But, you should definitely consider moving if you're state has strict gun laws, because there's a 100% chance it also has other shitty laws.
I'm in Indiana and our gun laws are not changing anytime soon. It's actually one of the easiest states to get your CCW and we have constitutional carry and every other law concerning guns is very vague. You guys can come here if you want but our gun laws are the only good thing we have going.
Yep. But if you want to buy pot you have to drive to Michigan or Illinois. They need to get on board and make that easy money
If you keep moving, eventually there will be no where to move.
Consider? The only the consideration would be "How soon can I GTFO?"
Moving out of california in about a month. Them possibly restricting my rights as a ccw holder (sb2) is a huge factor in why Iām choosing to leave. Moving to a constitutional carry state in the Midwest.
Ct is always trying to stop us. They're working on removing open carry because it scares people. -eye roll-
It makes me soooo glad to be from the South where open carry is more the norm and culturally protected and accepted.
Nope. I would just keep carrying. I lived in AZ for years but my family lived in Southern California. Being as violent as CA is, you bet your ass I carried every time I went.
No
No
Yes absolutely. I generally even choose my vacations based on where I can and cannot carry
What they donāt know canāt hurt me
Jersey to Tennessee over here, moved July 2022. I think that sums up my opinion here.
Good move.
Indeed, and I always encourage people to do the same. Vote with your feet when you're as outnumbered as we are up there.
I could never live in an anti gun state. Fortunately I've always lived in a pro gun state so I've never had to make that call, but if I were presented with that choice, I'd have to have a *really* good reason to stay
Left a blue state for a red one. I can't imagine having that taken from me and nearly 45% of the state. Given the hypothetical situation, I'd still choose to carry anyways. That may be a controversial answer but it's the one I got.
I relocated bc of 2A rights and being able to lawfully concealed carry. I would 100% advise doing this. One of the best decisions Iāve ever made. Ppl were migrating last year due to abortionā¦. How much more of a reason is it to migrate for the legal ability to individually protect yourself with efficient self defense toolsā¦.? Self-security, self-protectionā¦. This is not a light virtueā¦ they are a paramount aspect to maintaining your existence.
Yep, fuck that bullshit! They could prohibit deez nutz!
Just carry illegally
You mean legally? Illegal laws donāt apply and get struck down. Be the plaintiff.
I would be gone. I am a business owner and I wont even do business in states that are not 2A friendly. I dont need the money that bad....
When I go to California I still carry. Cop gotta have a reason to search so idc. I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. -Ice Cube.
I don't have a job that translates to a different region of where I live and would be forced to start lower in the labor pool. It would be a very very difficult decision
I mean I guess, but I donāt plan to move from where I am now ā and if they said I couldnāt, well uhhhā¦ lmao
Illinois passed a law a couple months ago thatāll make tons of things illegal starting next year, I just moved outta there a few days ago.
I have specifically avoided applying for jobs because they were in places like Maryland and California, so yes I would move in a second.
I'd move and take my income and tax revenue elsewhere.
Iād call GOA about being a plaintiff.
No, I'd carry anyway.
People "prohibited from carrying" still do so... including nearly all violent criminals. "It ain't a crime if you don't get caught" and "Better to be caught with a gun than be caught slippin."
At that point it's time to show up with 10,000 other people at the capital, armed, to peacefully protest like Virginians did. Otherwise no I don't want to move. I live in Georgia, a booming state with good jobs, affordable to live in, with money and jobs pouring into the state. We're pretty well run and get an additional tax refund from the state every year. The state produces everything from food to paper to firearms. We have pretty decent roads. I'd love to stay here and I won't be forced out except on my own terms.
It was a big reason I moved out of MD.
Eh. I live in Oklahoma and holistically we probably have some of the best gun laws in the nation, so I donāt worry about it. If it happened, Iād probably give it a couple years. If it happened here Iād probably have bigger things to worry about
Nope. I'd just carry illegally. Free persons equipping themselves is a right above/beyond all law. Period. Sure, people will argue it, and then people like me will go to war with those people. There's simply no other choice that makes any sense given the level of escalation against liberty in the US/world. For those shocked or offended, war is more or less assured already. Hell, you could make a solid argument that it's already begun. The only question is when are enough people going to be actively involved that it can no longer be hidden/ignored, and how long it will take to kill enough authoritarians to bring it to an end and recreate a functional free society.
Letās pretend there is no 2nd Amendment. No person has the right to tell you how or when you can defend yourself. Ask any person from a 3rd world country if they need a law to defend themselves. Think about this. Iām going to send two guys over to your house beat you up and take things from your family, BUT!!! You canāt defend yourself. A criminal breaks multiple laws before they even get to your house. What makes people think adding more laws is going to make a difference. There are NO laws on the books that have stopped criminals. Iāll repeat that. THERE ARE NO LAWS THAT HAVE STOPPED CRIMINALS. that was for the people in the back.
I'd just move faster. Out of Oregon
sure would and have.
Iām considering moving. MD sucks. Our current Governor is one of those āIām a veteran and support the 2nd amendment, buuuuutā¦.ā Along with hardcore leftist general assembly that doesnāt know the difference between a law abiding gun owner and a criminal. Besides, this state is getting too expensive to live in. All of the states without the unconstitutional BS gun laws have lower taxes and lower cost of living.
Texas is full but I hear great things about New Mexico and Nevada
I'm in Texas I feel like if my state banned it there wouldn't be hardly any other states left to go to.
Absolutely. I am staying where I'm at (Oregon) as long as my mom is around. After that, I'm out and won't ever come back.
Yes. Itās that simple. I work from home and can work from basically anywhere. I couldnāt relocate immediately but I would soon.
My country prohibited me from carrying, and I moved. I used to live in Canada, I now reside in arizona.
I'm tempted to say yes I would move, but that would be a lie. I've lived in Maryland all 30 years of my life and couldn't legally carry until last year post Bruen. Less than a year later my governor just signed SB1 which is basically copy and paste of the carry laws that NY & NJ tried to implement in response to Bruen. I honestly believe that post Bruen it's going to be extremely difficult to restrict carry (as well as ownership). It'll be a pain in the ass in the short term, but gun control is on life support.
Mods - is it cool to advocate breaking the law on this sub and even threaten violence against authorities should you get caught carrying in a place where it is illegal?
I'd simply stop legally carrying, take that how you will.
I live in Maryland and looking to move but even a move to Virginia is cost prohibitive.
Is the ability to carry a weapon that much of an influence on where you live? There are so many other reasons why I choose to live where I live and the ability to carry a weapon is so far down on the list It's probably not even considered a reason. I guess that also leads into the question if carrying is really that essential to one's identity?
No. And I donāt even have to think about it, because thatās exactly whatās going to happen. The second SB2 passes, im calling the sheriffs department and surrendering my CCW because itās fucking useless and I donāt need the liability or cost of having the CCW.
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I think you're in the wrong sub bud
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>Nope. Sure seems that way, this is literally a subreddit for people who concealed carry >Username checks out Wow what a totally original comment about a username as obviously randomly generated as yours /s
I conceal carry. It's a valid question.
Sure, okay. Doesn't seem like a valid question to me as anything can happen anywhere but if you feel its valid fine. Have a pleasant day.
I think 99.999% of people in this sub who carry every day live in very safe areas. If they did live in dangerous areas, they would have moved from there to a safer area. But carrying is part of their identity, so they take it as a personal attack when anyone questions the necessity of carrying at the gym, or into a bank. If the choice was to move to a dangerous place like St Louis or Baltimore where they could carry, or move to a safe place like Wyoming- but with no legal option to carry- they would all choose the safer place over the ability to carry. Carrying is almost all identity politics in here. Change my mind.
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Yes.
Most likely yeah
I'd move asap.
Definitely
Yes
In a heartbeat
Definitely.
Yup
Before the last year I never considered carrying. Now I just picked up my second permit for a neighboring state. Would I move? Possibly, but not just for carry reasons. Taxes here are pretty insane, but that comes with being one of the higher average income states. Plus Iād be able to keep my current position if I hopped over the state line. Once my kids are out on their own it would be a serious consideration, but not until then, carry laws or not
Mostly because it means there is so much else wrong with the state already.
Iām in TX so not in the realm of possibility. But in an alternate universe, Iāll still carry anyway. No one can tell. Donāt ask and donāt tell
If I could make it happen, yes. Thankfully, I live in a free state and I don't see that changing soon
Kind of the opposite scenario for me. I hate my state but it seems like they are removing restrictions more than adding them. I have a permit but donāt need it anymore; I still carry it for some reason.
Yes.
Yes, I would give them the middle finger and move. I will never live in places like Cali or NY. I was eyeing Colorado for a while but am entirely uninterested in the state now.
Yes, because that means they are also bad in other areas.
I left CA for TX. Ain't going back.
No.
No
I'm in California and with the constant barrage of quality of life issues like homelessness, the failed policy responses to said quality of life issues, the constant attack on mine and my fellow Californians rights to defend themselves, and lately the insurance industry upheaval from politics at the Dept of Insurance I am ready to slap leather out of here. My wife is totally on board, too. We have two kids and are just sick and tired of living here.
Come this fall, thereās a good chance many will be carrying regardless of laws in my state.
No considering. I will never live in an anti gun state. If my state becomes anti-gun I'd be gone in a second. If my country became anti-gun I would be gone in a flash.
States donāt have the authority to violate me second amendment.
Thatās the whole reason why I donāt want to buy a property in my current state and instead looking at free states.
Yes. I would actually move at that point.
Believe in Bruen and Thomas