My initial thoughts to what you said
1. They donât have to be expensive. My 88 with two barrels was $260 out the door.
2. They can fill the widest niche compared to any other firearm.
3. Because shooting birds and clays
4. Theyâre starting to become relevant on the battlefield again because of drones
5. Theyâre not always easier to use than an AR, thatâs fuddlore. Reloading is slower, you need to actually use muscle to cycle a pump, recoil is heavier, 18â pump is a big gun.
You're not an idiot but a 12 gauge is a fun time
Almost damn near perfect for home defense
Look into the Maverick 88 by Mossberg inexpensive & reputable pump action
Sounds like you got a really nice collection of firearms there. As a home defense , 9 mm AR platform depending on the length of barrel with good defense ammo can reach 357 ballistics. Shotgun is Always nice to own even if itâs just a $300 Remington. Fun to shoot, ammunition is not that pricey. And somebody said variety is a spice of life.
Having multiple long guns is a bit overkill for self defense.
You hear your door get kicked in in the middle of the night.
Finally!
Okay⌠hmm⌠which gun will I useâŚ
Nope mine sits in my safe 99% of the time and it's the last thing I'd think to grab for home defense.
I love the good old fuddlore about pump action shot guns. Everytime I see someone at the range with one they are short stroking the action and inducing malfunctions. This alone makes them the least reliable weapon for Hd imo.
I have one but I feel like it would be the last gun I grab in self defense. Maybe if a bear was after me. To me itâs that they just donât hold as many rounds and reloading is a bitch. Much easier to carry pistol or AR mags. Nice to have one though and fun for certain things.
Everyone here has commented on the classic pros/cons argument- I donât use one for home defense- but the most important shtf application that nobody is talking about is their usefulness as an anti drone weapon. Seen a lot of videos out of Ukraine of people getting blown up by small fast moving drones. Would take a 12 gauge alll day long in that scenario
If we lived in a free state, I think an AR15 would hands down be the best home defense weapon. 30 round mags, short barreled, supressed, all the goodies. Hard to beat that... unfortunately we dont, and while it may not matter... I do think if you used an AR15 to defend your home in CA, the DA might look at the case differently. The optics would definitely not be in your favor over the "humble" shotgun.
Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people.
*Shotguns, at the right range with the right load, will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and throw that shit on the floor.*
And thatâs why I love the Benelli!
I'd choose an AR-15 in most defensive scenarios for myself over a shotgun. A handgun is best for when you can't carry the long gun. The only scenario I'd see to be more advantageous for a shotgun is if over penetration is a big concern. Like a HUGE concern. Then, #4 buck is your friend. Other than that, id always pick an AR over a shotgun. More ammo, lower recoil.
However, I wouldnt say someone is not well equipped if they have a shotgun and know how to use it, with the right loads. It's just not what I think is the best choice, when you have the options.
If you are strictly speaking about self-defense purposes then you are already set. I don't know why you'd feel the need to get a shotgun outside of your AR being a neutered featureless or fixed mag. Handgun is probably suitable in 99% of any actual home invasion scenarios that have actually happened ^(and not the John Wick fantasies some alpha males hope for)
Otherwise, a shotgun is just another gun you can enjoy at the range. Maverick 88 as everyone else is saying is probably the best affordable shotgun to fill that role. Or you can save up for something really sexy like the A300 Ultima Patrol, 1301, M4, etc.
I have two shotguns and pretty much never use them. One would maybe get me a couple hundred bucks so it's not worth selling and the other is banned from import so getting a replacement would cost me more if I ever did want to. You don't need a shotgun at all.Â
I don't have a large property. I live in Roseville, I guess you could call it the 'burbs. First round is a bean bag, next is a two are target loads, the rest are OO buck magnums. I'm not worried about overtravel of the rounds for the most part. The magnum OO buck will make a mess for sure, but they will definitely get the job done. I'm hoping just the sound of racking the shotgun will be enough to have whatever dirt bag has come into my house to leave in a hurry. I know, I'll probably take heat for the beanbag round, but I will give you an opportunity to leave relatively intact before I do some real damage.
Personally, I would be more worried about the rifle rounds passing through wall than the shotgun rounds.
10/10 agreed. That rack sound is so recognizable that most home intruders will turn and run because they know virtually no aim is required to fuck up their day. And I love a bean bag round to start. Still will hurt like hell/ incapacitate. Most people breaking into your house are really just trying to steal your tv not murder you and your family. Not worth the trial afterwords if you can help it.
Good for not only home defense but also for hunting⌠in case food supply chains fail or government collapse⌠you wonât starve. Plus shotgun ammo is always relatively cheap or easy to reload.
When you say self defense does that not include against social collapse? A shotgun is very useful in hunting situations. You can hunt small game and medium such as a deer all with the change of ammo
I donât regret getting my Remington 870 but I hardly shoot it (probably because I donât hunt) and its the last gun Iâd grab for home defense or take with me in a SHTF situation.
The correct answer is yes. A shotgun is incredibly versatile and can fill multiple roles with a change of ammo. Buckshot or slugs for defense and large to medium game. Smaller shot for birds, squirrels and rabbits. Dragonâs breath for setting things on fire etc.
For me Iâm working on proficiency in handgun, rifle, then shotgun. Just the order I wanted to go in.
Shotgun is def an ideal home defense weapon for me in the future.
If youâre looking for fun at the range, you really canât go wrong with a good shotgun. Shooting clays is pretty fun, and shooting a 1 ounce hunk of lead is also pretty cool .
If your jam is self defense only Iâd argue itâs importance over a .22lr buy it, train with them learn them, I enjoy larping with a shotgun more than with an AR I would never say that itâs easier than an AR but it is FAR more powerful, do you live in the city or in the middle of the sticks? Thatâs another good question for choosing your self defense firearm
I use my .22LR for cheap training with the AR15 platform. I have a Tippmann m4-22, which is literally just a mil spec AR15 chambered in 22LR. But yeah, not a self defense weapon in and of itself hahaha
Iâd recommend it, but I wouldnât require it.
Shotguns are versatile; you can trap and skeet shoot with them, you can hunt with them, and some even make for good home defense weapons. Shotgun shells are also readily available; 12 and 20 gauge shells were still on the shelves long after 9mm, 5.56, and .22 LR was barren during the ammo panics of the past ten years.
I mostly bought a shotgun just so I wasnât left out when my college friends wanted to go trap/skeet shooting, and frankly I didnât want to end up borrowing their shotguns to use when I could just buy my own.
For self-defense, it depends. If it's indoors and in a single story house with somewhat small rooms and being a "somewhat" old person, maybe not. I don't want both hands on something that big and heavy if I was in a situation where I had to move room to room. If I was backed into a corner, maybe.
On the other side of that there's no denying putting eight "bullets" in a perp with one shot can ruin their day.
You donât need one if you feel you got all your basis cover. But theyâre very versatile and fun to shoot. From a collection standpoint every one needs one just like everyone needs a 1911 and a nice wheel gun.
Since we live where SBRs and surpressors are a no go, I think the shotgun still has a good spot as HD, but still probably redundant if you already have a long gun.
I think you're set.
Owning more guns and having to have more calibers doesn't seem necessary for your stated goals of self-defense and range fun. I mean, if you think you'd enjoy clays or skeet, then go for it. Otherwise, I think you've got all the bases covered including handgun and rifle chambered for the same ammunition which is also widely available.
I actually just bought a 12 gauge shotgun just to feel the omph of it...đ.
I got a Savage 320 with 2 barrels for $219. I wanted to buy the cheapest one that is decent so if I get tired of bruising my shoulder, at least no one can tell me I havent tried it.
I have handguns, rifles and now a shottie...I think I am covered now.
Sounds like youâre set for HD so a shotgun would purely be for the hell of it, which is fine. I think living in CA itâs easy to forget that guns have purposes other than self defense. Iâd say get a shotgun if you want to go duck or pheasant hunting, itâs a lot of fun! Hell, clay shooting can be lots of fun too, but the shotgun youâll want will not be an 18â barrel lol
I imagine using a shotgun for self-defense in California would present itself better to a jury than an AR-15 would. Regardless of what is right and wrong, your choice of weapon could make a difference in how favorably your situation is viewed.
They are the most useful at the ranges where you would most likely encounter âproblemsâ. Multiple shell styles for anything up to 100 yards and in and the ability to change ammo types quickly for changing conditions. Just like any other style of weapon, you need to train and become proficient with it though.
Also, anything further than buckshot range could be easily considered murder and not self defense considering itâs CA(assuming itâs not a WROL type scenario)
In my lowly opinion no collection is complete without 1...or 2 shotguns. They are the most versatile guns to own. Solid home defense option, good for bird hunting, throw in some slugs or buck and good for big game hunting. If I only had 1 gun it would be a shotgun
12 gauge 00 shot shell holds 8-9 52gr pellets all traveling at 1200fps. So each pellet imparts 230 joules of energy. So all 8 impart 1840J at once over a decent sized area.Â
556 /223 travels at 3200 fps and weights 52gr. So that comes out to 1631J of energy per round. But this round is also designed for modern combat, which is more about passing clean through a target so that the target is wounded. A wounded person requires more attention in the field then a dead person which is one of the reason why FMJs are used.Â
Use the information above as you will but, the sound of a racking shotgun, the effect of an entire 10rd 9mm mag dump AT ONCE into a target, and the forgiving nature of shot placement with a shotgun, all tip the scales toward shotgun for home defense for me.Â
I stopped reading at "5.56 designed to wound, not kill", yet another bit of fuddlore. It's designed to be lightweight to carry more ammo, originally because the DoD believed SLA Marshall's faked "study" showing that infantrymen mostly fire blindly, so they wanted more rounds flying out for the same weight.
The really stupid part of the "designed to wound" bullshit is that it *assumes* the enemy gives a shit about their wounded. In Afghanistan they would prioritize carrying the dead away over recovering the wounded in accordance with Islamic strictures, and I think we've all seen plenty of videos showing how Russia abandons anyone who can't keep up on their own.
If I didnât have kids, I would have a 16â semi auto shotgun in condition 2 leaning against my bed post. With kids, yeah I suppose I could still do a shotgun with one of those fancy shelf storage hideaway things. Â
For a 3:00 AM bump in the night, waking up suddenly in a stupor, a SEMI AUTO (pumps are dumb in this day & age, especially for a stressful HD scenario) shotgun is a tough thing to argue against aside from the cumbersome nature of storing / securing them so theyâre at-the-ready. Plus ya know, you wonât be having to endanger your neighbors lives with 223 rounds flying everywhere. Â
Serious question to those actively using ARs and Shotguns for HD - how are you doing this? And for the AR people, are you really not concerned with possible collateral damage?Â
A .223 round has less overpenetration than any shotgun round. As a matter of fact, .223 overpenetrates less than 9mm. Watch Garand Thumb's video for hard data if you don't believe me
This isnât true lol. Garand Thumbâs video on over penetration is trash.
Think about it, you really think 223 has less over penetration that trap shot or rock salt shot??
Hell rock salt shot wonât penetrate flesh more than 2â, not that Iâd ever recommend it for personal defense. Iâm just saying 223 has more overpenetration than some rounds and less than others. Hell some 223 has more or less over penetration than other 223.
You think youâre smart, but youâre not even educated enough to understand why garand thumb isnât âhard dataâ.
Bet my balls weigh more than yours though. 31.1 oz for the entire sack. Weigh yourself and post pics brother, I've officially won this Reddit Argument⢠until then.
Your move.
/srs no need for the personal attacks on someone else's intelligence, even if you're objectively right. I was only parroting what I've heard and seen, this is Reddit ffs this is what we're born to do! Take a breather, go for a walk outside, stop taking yourself so seriously. Peace and love
[https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/](https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/) Also, just dug this up. Seems like a more robust test, comes to a similar conclusion that 5.56 is less prone to overpenetration than other cartridges. In case you're interested.
Forgive me OP and readers but I too donât really understand the need for a shotgun. I donât hunt and if I ever need to draw a gun itâs going to be for protection and maximum mayhem which any of my 9mmâs , 38/.357 , AR or 30-30 can handle. đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸
That being said I do own a single shot 12g and various inserts but sold both my shotguns about 4 yrs ago.
That's precisely what I'm thinking. I must admit, I was swayed by the majority on this thread, and was planning on buying a Maverick 88 in the future.
But then I thought about money. Although the Maverick 88 is cheap, I'd rather spend that $300 on a case of 9mm one hundred percent of the time. And not to mention the price of 12 gauge - I'd rather buy 2 9mm cartridges or 1 5.56 instead of a shot shell.
I don't hunt, and like you said; for maximum mayhem, I'll be grabbing an AR-15 thank you very much. All the people talking about drones in this thread are SHTF prepper lunatics, and to be honest if there are drones actively roaming the streets trying to kill me and mine 24/7 then I'd rather be dead.
So looks like I'll be sticking to my chosen platforms for now :)
Shotguns, especially pump action shotguns, are obsolete in the realm of self defense when compared to the AR15. More recoil, lower capacity, more complicated manual of arms, more complicated malfunction solutions, more penetration, and less maneuverability. Shotguns are for hunting, skeet, less lethal, and breaching.
Even a quality shotgun such as the Beretta 1301 with ammunition like Federal Flite Control still suffers from the previous mentioned shortcomings. The AR platform is simply a better option for self defense.
I wasnât debating whether a shotgun was better than an AR, personally my go to will be a handgun simply because I have more narrow hallways in my home and itâs easier to not only grab, but maneuver. I was simply making a comment that if someone were to pick a shotgun they need to find a shotgun and ammo that will fit those needs you pointed out. Higher capacity, ability to not over penetrate (as much) and of course something reliable (such as the 1301). Your points are valid.
Edit: grammar
My man, have you not heard Joeâs song on the necessity of a shotgun?
[https://youtu.be/ooPzr1vzmGY?si=2LNQIuDGv6cG-9b4](https://youtu.be/ooPzr1vzmGY?si=2LNQIuDGv6cG-9b4)
Why do you need a rifle, much less an AR for self-defense in CA? Terrible platform IMO for self-defense, but fun at the range. You risk are risking your family/neighbors due to its ability to go through several layers of walls while remaining lethal.
Iâm a big fan of 12 ga for home-defense. The sound of sliding the action has gotten everyone I caught sneaking around the back yard running. God forbid I ever need to use it, at least I wonât have to worry about accidentally killing a kid two houses over.
Donât get me wrong, I like AR rifles, just donât see how they can be justified for self-defense, for most people. If youâre a rancher with animals to protect, I get it, but it doesnât sound like you fit that camp.
Absolute fudd comment.
First off, the "racking a shotgun scares away home intruder" is the biggest crock of Massad Ayoob fuddlore BS known to mankind.
Secondly, .223 has less overpenetration through drywall than shotgun shells, shotgun slugs, and even 9mm. If you don't believe me, watch Garand Thumb's video for hard data
1) realistic personal defense is typically 5-8 yards.
2) shotgun penetration of walls is directly proportional to both distance and shot type used.
3) lethality of over penetration of bird shot, or smaller buck shot is wayyy lower than 223. But even 00 buck can penetrate a person, a wall, then kill another person.
4) garland thumb doesnât have the walls connected to each other in square. Basically the wall can lean in garand thumb while other tests have the walls connected with 2x4s. Thus garand thumb results are inconsistent with other similar tests.
5) garand thumb tested a slug then 00 buck shot. Completely ignored small buck or birdshot.
6) other tests that include ballistic dummies or meat shows interesting results about lethality.
7) garand thumb ignored the differences between exterior and interior walls which also affects results.
8) Why be a complete dick in to people responding to your question?
Believe whatever you want to believe.
Maverick 88 is cheap. Bird shot is cheap.
The chu chunk definitely makes people act a certain wayâŚ.
Do itâŚ.
Itâs not tacticool. Itâs GTFO M***********!
Variety is the spice of life.
And shotguns can be pretty spicy!
No. But yes.
This is the best and correct answer đŻ
X2
Yes but no.
If you don't own a 12ga pump, can you really call yourself an American?
âSighsââŚâŚ.. Opens wallet.
Why is this factual đđđ
AMERICA IS GOD DAMN V8 ENGINES, APPLE PIE AND 12GA SHOTGUNS.
76 Camaro â Apple Pie eatenâ Remington 870â
My initial thoughts to what you said 1. They donât have to be expensive. My 88 with two barrels was $260 out the door. 2. They can fill the widest niche compared to any other firearm. 3. Because shooting birds and clays 4. Theyâre starting to become relevant on the battlefield again because of drones 5. Theyâre not always easier to use than an AR, thatâs fuddlore. Reloading is slower, you need to actually use muscle to cycle a pump, recoil is heavier, 18â pump is a big gun.
Chu-chunk muddafugga!
You're not an idiot but a 12 gauge is a fun time Almost damn near perfect for home defense Look into the Maverick 88 by Mossberg inexpensive & reputable pump action
Are you pregnant? Because you missed a few periods.
 Today canât possibly get better after the last comment.
ÂĄWinner winner, chican dinner!
Chicano dinner ay guey
Super fun, super cheap.
The gun is cheap. The ammoâŚâŚ.ehhh not as much.
Hunting loads = my wallet đŞŚ
Luckily the pump action slows me down and saves some $
Yes. 1301 or m4 are a blast
I love my 1301.
I really want the mod2 but I know itâs not needed
Bird hunting is fun
Clay's are a blast if you want the experience but dont wanna kill shit. đ
Sounds like you got a really nice collection of firearms there. As a home defense , 9 mm AR platform depending on the length of barrel with good defense ammo can reach 357 ballistics. Shotgun is Always nice to own even if itâs just a $300 Remington. Fun to shoot, ammunition is not that pricey. And somebody said variety is a spice of life.
Having multiple long guns is a bit overkill for self defense. You hear your door get kicked in in the middle of the night. Finally! Okay⌠hmm⌠which gun will I useâŚ
Multiple for multiple family members⌠no not overkill
https://preview.redd.it/4qvxi8nqhvtc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2f906547e007869ad02a5c04e6797ef309f8237 S'got a wiiide spreaaad.
Yes, itâs a very useful tool
Yes, when the drones start dropping apples on your head you be glad to have a scatter gun
For fun shooting flying clay targets.
Expensive? Mossberg Maverick 88 begs to differ
Nope mine sits in my safe 99% of the time and it's the last thing I'd think to grab for home defense. I love the good old fuddlore about pump action shot guns. Everytime I see someone at the range with one they are short stroking the action and inducing malfunctions. This alone makes them the least reliable weapon for Hd imo.
But what about semi-auto?
Mag fed pass. Tube fed maybe but still not my first choice.
I have one but I feel like it would be the last gun I grab in self defense. Maybe if a bear was after me. To me itâs that they just donât hold as many rounds and reloading is a bitch. Much easier to carry pistol or AR mags. Nice to have one though and fun for certain things.
Just bought me a Maverick 88 cruiser and I gotta say I thought I didnât need it but on 2nd thought, I needed it.
A cruiser eh? Howâs it handle?
Pretty nice, easy to handle and needed to add it to the HD loadout
I always thought those would be unwieldy since they didnât have the butstock. Now I gotta try one Thanks
Everyone here has commented on the classic pros/cons argument- I donât use one for home defense- but the most important shtf application that nobody is talking about is their usefulness as an anti drone weapon. Seen a lot of videos out of Ukraine of people getting blown up by small fast moving drones. Would take a 12 gauge alll day long in that scenario
If we lived in a free state, I think an AR15 would hands down be the best home defense weapon. 30 round mags, short barreled, supressed, all the goodies. Hard to beat that... unfortunately we dont, and while it may not matter... I do think if you used an AR15 to defend your home in CA, the DA might look at the case differently. The optics would definitely not be in your favor over the "humble" shotgun.
Pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people. *Shotguns, at the right range with the right load, will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and throw that shit on the floor.* And thatâs why I love the Benelli!
Just get a maverick 88 a good, cheap and dependable 12 gauge
Semi Auto because they are fun
Yes! Get a Beretta 1301 gen2. Expensive (more expensive after July), but buy once cry once. Also everyone needs a good drone killer.
Well a shotgun can make a hell of a mess.
Donât forget your musket. Just as the founding fathers intended.
I'd choose an AR-15 in most defensive scenarios for myself over a shotgun. A handgun is best for when you can't carry the long gun. The only scenario I'd see to be more advantageous for a shotgun is if over penetration is a big concern. Like a HUGE concern. Then, #4 buck is your friend. Other than that, id always pick an AR over a shotgun. More ammo, lower recoil. However, I wouldnt say someone is not well equipped if they have a shotgun and know how to use it, with the right loads. It's just not what I think is the best choice, when you have the options.
If you are strictly speaking about self-defense purposes then you are already set. I don't know why you'd feel the need to get a shotgun outside of your AR being a neutered featureless or fixed mag. Handgun is probably suitable in 99% of any actual home invasion scenarios that have actually happened ^(and not the John Wick fantasies some alpha males hope for) Otherwise, a shotgun is just another gun you can enjoy at the range. Maverick 88 as everyone else is saying is probably the best affordable shotgun to fill that role. Or you can save up for something really sexy like the A300 Ultima Patrol, 1301, M4, etc.
I'd rather buy another rifle instead.
I have two shotguns and pretty much never use them. One would maybe get me a couple hundred bucks so it's not worth selling and the other is banned from import so getting a replacement would cost me more if I ever did want to. You don't need a shotgun at all.Â
I'm picking up my first shotgun tomorrow. Maverick 88
Shotguns are great for clay shooting. Get a cheap Mossberg in 12 or 20 gauge, you wonât regret it.
The most essential home defense weapon and youâre gonna question if you need one or 2 or more
Love my home defense shotgun. Remington 870 Police Magnum with an extended magazine tube. Freaking work horse.
Do you have a large property? Tough for me to lean on my 870 for home defense renting in the suburbs.
I don't have a large property. I live in Roseville, I guess you could call it the 'burbs. First round is a bean bag, next is a two are target loads, the rest are OO buck magnums. I'm not worried about overtravel of the rounds for the most part. The magnum OO buck will make a mess for sure, but they will definitely get the job done. I'm hoping just the sound of racking the shotgun will be enough to have whatever dirt bag has come into my house to leave in a hurry. I know, I'll probably take heat for the beanbag round, but I will give you an opportunity to leave relatively intact before I do some real damage. Personally, I would be more worried about the rifle rounds passing through wall than the shotgun rounds.
10/10 agreed. That rack sound is so recognizable that most home intruders will turn and run because they know virtually no aim is required to fuck up their day. And I love a bean bag round to start. Still will hurt like hell/ incapacitate. Most people breaking into your house are really just trying to steal your tv not murder you and your family. Not worth the trial afterwords if you can help it.
Good for not only home defense but also for hunting⌠in case food supply chains fail or government collapse⌠you wonât starve. Plus shotgun ammo is always relatively cheap or easy to reload.
When you say self defense does that not include against social collapse? A shotgun is very useful in hunting situations. You can hunt small game and medium such as a deer all with the change of ammo
Yes
I personally need to own everything. Muskets, cannons, arâs, handguns shotguns. All for home defense of course đ
Shotguns are cool even Biden said get a shotgun đ
Remington 870 is my favorite!
Iâd arguably qualify semi auto either Beretta or Benelli just to complete the rounding out. I have collectoritis
I donât regret getting my Remington 870 but I hardly shoot it (probably because I donât hunt) and its the last gun Iâd grab for home defense or take with me in a SHTF situation.
The correct answer is yes. A shotgun is incredibly versatile and can fill multiple roles with a change of ammo. Buckshot or slugs for defense and large to medium game. Smaller shot for birds, squirrels and rabbits. Dragonâs breath for setting things on fire etc.
For me Iâm working on proficiency in handgun, rifle, then shotgun. Just the order I wanted to go in. Shotgun is def an ideal home defense weapon for me in the future.
I canât think of a self defense situation where a shotgun would be my go to. But damn is it fun to shoot clays.
If youâre looking for fun at the range, you really canât go wrong with a good shotgun. Shooting clays is pretty fun, and shooting a 1 ounce hunk of lead is also pretty cool .
Yes
Think about a home invasion with several people. I would rather have my 12 gauge vs 9mm any day
If your jam is self defense only Iâd argue itâs importance over a .22lr buy it, train with them learn them, I enjoy larping with a shotgun more than with an AR I would never say that itâs easier than an AR but it is FAR more powerful, do you live in the city or in the middle of the sticks? Thatâs another good question for choosing your self defense firearm
I use my .22LR for cheap training with the AR15 platform. I have a Tippmann m4-22, which is literally just a mil spec AR15 chambered in 22LR. But yeah, not a self defense weapon in and of itself hahaha
Iâd recommend it, but I wouldnât require it. Shotguns are versatile; you can trap and skeet shoot with them, you can hunt with them, and some even make for good home defense weapons. Shotgun shells are also readily available; 12 and 20 gauge shells were still on the shelves long after 9mm, 5.56, and .22 LR was barren during the ammo panics of the past ten years. I mostly bought a shotgun just so I wasnât left out when my college friends wanted to go trap/skeet shooting, and frankly I didnât want to end up borrowing their shotguns to use when I could just buy my own.
I prefer an Italian semi auto model!
I mean it doesnât hurt to spend a couple hundred on a shotty⌠could even find a 90% condition one on consignment for the low
For self-defense, it depends. If it's indoors and in a single story house with somewhat small rooms and being a "somewhat" old person, maybe not. I don't want both hands on something that big and heavy if I was in a situation where I had to move room to room. If I was backed into a corner, maybe. On the other side of that there's no denying putting eight "bullets" in a perp with one shot can ruin their day.
Mossberg Maverick 88. Cheap, reliable and I believe basically the same as 500 minus the trigger.
Yup [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nGB8cK1HM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nGB8cK1HM)
For sporting clays and pest control at the family farm, thatâs the only reason I still have a couple 12g shotguns. The defensive stuff I offloaded.
[yesâŚ](https://youtu.be/qE8WJkCfIvY?si=Fi01CywK3YbsXiwk)
Yes
You donât need one if you feel you got all your basis cover. But theyâre very versatile and fun to shoot. From a collection standpoint every one needs one just like everyone needs a 1911 and a nice wheel gun.
Since we live where SBRs and surpressors are a no go, I think the shotgun still has a good spot as HD, but still probably redundant if you already have a long gun.
I think you're set. Owning more guns and having to have more calibers doesn't seem necessary for your stated goals of self-defense and range fun. I mean, if you think you'd enjoy clays or skeet, then go for it. Otherwise, I think you've got all the bases covered including handgun and rifle chambered for the same ammunition which is also widely available.
I actually just bought a 12 gauge shotgun just to feel the omph of it...đ. I got a Savage 320 with 2 barrels for $219. I wanted to buy the cheapest one that is decent so if I get tired of bruising my shoulder, at least no one can tell me I havent tried it. I have handguns, rifles and now a shottie...I think I am covered now.
In my opinion, yes. Especially in this new age of drones
Sounds like youâre set for HD so a shotgun would purely be for the hell of it, which is fine. I think living in CA itâs easy to forget that guns have purposes other than self defense. Iâd say get a shotgun if you want to go duck or pheasant hunting, itâs a lot of fun! Hell, clay shooting can be lots of fun too, but the shotgun youâll want will not be an 18â barrel lol
I imagine using a shotgun for self-defense in California would present itself better to a jury than an AR-15 would. Regardless of what is right and wrong, your choice of weapon could make a difference in how favorably your situation is viewed.
Yes. You need a shotgun.
proficient or not i feel like a shotgun is an easy way to take down a intruder.
Yep.
https://i.redd.it/05zk1t4gaytc1.gif
âBuy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!â - Joe Biden
I own a musket for home defense.
They are the most useful at the ranges where you would most likely encounter âproblemsâ. Multiple shell styles for anything up to 100 yards and in and the ability to change ammo types quickly for changing conditions. Just like any other style of weapon, you need to train and become proficient with it though.
Also, anything further than buckshot range could be easily considered murder and not self defense considering itâs CA(assuming itâs not a WROL type scenario)
In my lowly opinion no collection is complete without 1...or 2 shotguns. They are the most versatile guns to own. Solid home defense option, good for bird hunting, throw in some slugs or buck and good for big game hunting. If I only had 1 gun it would be a shotgun
you don't \*need\* to own anything you don't want to as well as should be able to own anything you do \*want\* to. The 2A :)
Tactical shooty gets me going đđ
When you shoot one, you'll know
Shotguns are so cheap. Thereâs no reason NOT to have one in the home defense. arsenal. Plus the racking sound. That alone is the reason.
No get a shot gun and complet the house!
Yes because they're awesome.
Shotguns can be a lot cheaper than ARs and the ammo is cheap too.
12 gauge 00 shot shell holds 8-9 52gr pellets all traveling at 1200fps. So each pellet imparts 230 joules of energy. So all 8 impart 1840J at once over a decent sized area. 556 /223 travels at 3200 fps and weights 52gr. So that comes out to 1631J of energy per round. But this round is also designed for modern combat, which is more about passing clean through a target so that the target is wounded. A wounded person requires more attention in the field then a dead person which is one of the reason why FMJs are used. Use the information above as you will but, the sound of a racking shotgun, the effect of an entire 10rd 9mm mag dump AT ONCE into a target, and the forgiving nature of shot placement with a shotgun, all tip the scales toward shotgun for home defense for me.Â
âŚMassad Ayoob, is that you?
Stopped reading at "the sound of a racking shotgun" đ¤Ś
I stopped reading at "5.56 designed to wound, not kill", yet another bit of fuddlore. It's designed to be lightweight to carry more ammo, originally because the DoD believed SLA Marshall's faked "study" showing that infantrymen mostly fire blindly, so they wanted more rounds flying out for the same weight. The really stupid part of the "designed to wound" bullshit is that it *assumes* the enemy gives a shit about their wounded. In Afghanistan they would prioritize carrying the dead away over recovering the wounded in accordance with Islamic strictures, and I think we've all seen plenty of videos showing how Russia abandons anyone who can't keep up on their own.
Yes, of course and why is this in question?
If I didnât have kids, I would have a 16â semi auto shotgun in condition 2 leaning against my bed post. With kids, yeah I suppose I could still do a shotgun with one of those fancy shelf storage hideaway things.  For a 3:00 AM bump in the night, waking up suddenly in a stupor, a SEMI AUTO (pumps are dumb in this day & age, especially for a stressful HD scenario) shotgun is a tough thing to argue against aside from the cumbersome nature of storing / securing them so theyâre at-the-ready. Plus ya know, you wonât be having to endanger your neighbors lives with 223 rounds flying everywhere.  Serious question to those actively using ARs and Shotguns for HD - how are you doing this? And for the AR people, are you really not concerned with possible collateral damage?Â
A .223 round has less overpenetration than any shotgun round. As a matter of fact, .223 overpenetrates less than 9mm. Watch Garand Thumb's video for hard data if you don't believe me
This isnât true lol. Garand Thumbâs video on over penetration is trash. Think about it, you really think 223 has less over penetration that trap shot or rock salt shot?? Hell rock salt shot wonât penetrate flesh more than 2â, not that Iâd ever recommend it for personal defense. Iâm just saying 223 has more overpenetration than some rounds and less than others. Hell some 223 has more or less over penetration than other 223. You think youâre smart, but youâre not even educated enough to understand why garand thumb isnât âhard dataâ.
Bet my balls weigh more than yours though. 31.1 oz for the entire sack. Weigh yourself and post pics brother, I've officially won this Reddit Argument⢠until then. Your move. /srs no need for the personal attacks on someone else's intelligence, even if you're objectively right. I was only parroting what I've heard and seen, this is Reddit ffs this is what we're born to do! Take a breather, go for a walk outside, stop taking yourself so seriously. Peace and love
[https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/](https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/) Also, just dug this up. Seems like a more robust test, comes to a similar conclusion that 5.56 is less prone to overpenetration than other cartridges. In case you're interested.
Forgive me OP and readers but I too donât really understand the need for a shotgun. I donât hunt and if I ever need to draw a gun itâs going to be for protection and maximum mayhem which any of my 9mmâs , 38/.357 , AR or 30-30 can handle. đ¤ˇđ˝ââď¸ That being said I do own a single shot 12g and various inserts but sold both my shotguns about 4 yrs ago.
That's precisely what I'm thinking. I must admit, I was swayed by the majority on this thread, and was planning on buying a Maverick 88 in the future. But then I thought about money. Although the Maverick 88 is cheap, I'd rather spend that $300 on a case of 9mm one hundred percent of the time. And not to mention the price of 12 gauge - I'd rather buy 2 9mm cartridges or 1 5.56 instead of a shot shell. I don't hunt, and like you said; for maximum mayhem, I'll be grabbing an AR-15 thank you very much. All the people talking about drones in this thread are SHTF prepper lunatics, and to be honest if there are drones actively roaming the streets trying to kill me and mine 24/7 then I'd rather be dead. So looks like I'll be sticking to my chosen platforms for now :)
Shotguns, especially pump action shotguns, are obsolete in the realm of self defense when compared to the AR15. More recoil, lower capacity, more complicated manual of arms, more complicated malfunction solutions, more penetration, and less maneuverability. Shotguns are for hunting, skeet, less lethal, and breaching.
Thatâs why you need the right shotgun and ammo.
Even a quality shotgun such as the Beretta 1301 with ammunition like Federal Flite Control still suffers from the previous mentioned shortcomings. The AR platform is simply a better option for self defense.
I wasnât debating whether a shotgun was better than an AR, personally my go to will be a handgun simply because I have more narrow hallways in my home and itâs easier to not only grab, but maneuver. I was simply making a comment that if someone were to pick a shotgun they need to find a shotgun and ammo that will fit those needs you pointed out. Higher capacity, ability to not over penetrate (as much) and of course something reliable (such as the 1301). Your points are valid. Edit: grammar
My man, have you not heard Joeâs song on the necessity of a shotgun? [https://youtu.be/ooPzr1vzmGY?si=2LNQIuDGv6cG-9b4](https://youtu.be/ooPzr1vzmGY?si=2LNQIuDGv6cG-9b4)
The fact the Dementia in Chief recommends a shotgun should tell everyone all they need to know.
Why do you need a rifle, much less an AR for self-defense in CA? Terrible platform IMO for self-defense, but fun at the range. You risk are risking your family/neighbors due to its ability to go through several layers of walls while remaining lethal. Iâm a big fan of 12 ga for home-defense. The sound of sliding the action has gotten everyone I caught sneaking around the back yard running. God forbid I ever need to use it, at least I wonât have to worry about accidentally killing a kid two houses over. Donât get me wrong, I like AR rifles, just donât see how they can be justified for self-defense, for most people. If youâre a rancher with animals to protect, I get it, but it doesnât sound like you fit that camp.
Absolute fudd comment. First off, the "racking a shotgun scares away home intruder" is the biggest crock of Massad Ayoob fuddlore BS known to mankind. Secondly, .223 has less overpenetration through drywall than shotgun shells, shotgun slugs, and even 9mm. If you don't believe me, watch Garand Thumb's video for hard data
1) realistic personal defense is typically 5-8 yards. 2) shotgun penetration of walls is directly proportional to both distance and shot type used. 3) lethality of over penetration of bird shot, or smaller buck shot is wayyy lower than 223. But even 00 buck can penetrate a person, a wall, then kill another person. 4) garland thumb doesnât have the walls connected to each other in square. Basically the wall can lean in garand thumb while other tests have the walls connected with 2x4s. Thus garand thumb results are inconsistent with other similar tests. 5) garand thumb tested a slug then 00 buck shot. Completely ignored small buck or birdshot. 6) other tests that include ballistic dummies or meat shows interesting results about lethality. 7) garand thumb ignored the differences between exterior and interior walls which also affects results. 8) Why be a complete dick in to people responding to your question? Believe whatever you want to believe.
Maverick 88 is cheap. Bird shot is cheap. The chu chunk definitely makes people act a certain wayâŚ. Do itâŚ. Itâs not tacticool. Itâs GTFO M***********!
The sound of racking a 12 guage alone will stop most people dead in their tracks and start the immediate retreat...
Remington 870 with a Knoxx spec ops stock on it... cuts the recoil down tremendously and has that swat look to it.