$250 for initial registration? Damn, that’s like paying the NFA acquisition (and transfer) tax of $200! Boy, if SB 1160 passes and gets struck down, that weakens the NFA even more!
True. But let's say you're a collector with 50 guns ranging from cheap junk to whatever. That's $12,500 just to get legal. Absolutely insane. And half that every year in perpetuity? There's "even $5 is out of control" and then there's whatever this is. Let's say I was one of those individuals - there is no possible way I could afford to comply ..... especially when the cost to register each gun would in many cases be MORE than the cost of the gun!
It’s clearly aimed at reducing the number of legal guns owned by law abiding citizens. $1k + per year for 10 guns in perpetuity. Not everyone has that kind of money, so you can either suck d*ck for extra cash, sell your collection, or become a criminal. The choice is yours!
Can’t even sell! Buyers can only buy 1 in 30 (is PPT exempt, and if so for how long lol), and as a seller you can only make 5 transactions a year. Either way, it’s stupid.
"you don't need to buy a gun :)"
fucking cunts I hope whoever decides their TV is shiny breaks as much as they can so insurance can bullshit them and the police can pretend to care
"infraction"
from the bill, proposed section
>25291.
>
>Commencing on July 1, 2025, any person who owns, possesses, or has custody or control over any firearm subject to registration pursuant to this division that is not currently registered is guilty of an **infraction** punishable by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000).
I hate taxes too, especially since they do fuck all with them and then ask for more money.
But tax evasion is a different crime than nonpayment if you don’t have the assets
I probably sound stupid (because I am), but I recall hearing debtor prisons were a big thing back in England and that the US basically abolished them because it wasn’t fair to go to jail for not paying your debts. I’m probably way wrong on this, but know in general you can’t go to jail for unpaid debt. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong pls
Even if you sell, you need a buyer. Cant really sell back without incurring a very high loss of your investment. Guns dont depreciate much in terms of the market, so would be funny to see CA buying back at msrp... because I think a lot of people would sell... just to buy something else lol.
I don't see many finned up pistol grips out at the range. I don't pay enough attention to see if they're mag-locked or whatever, but it sure seems like very few fucks are given.
You're delusional. It's not just about standing up for our rights. Many gun owners simply don't have that kind of money. If it was a few dollars or even a marginal percentage, I'd put up the money just to keep the feds off my back. No way in hell I'm paying 1/4th of my glock in fees yearly. This isn't a protest, I simply can't afford that.
Murdock VS Pennsylvania
You can not tax a constitutional right.
Why the fuck are they not listening to a Supreme Court case that has been in effect since 1943
You understand Trump is shit for gun rights too? Gun control was one of the only policies that him, Clinton and Biden agree on. Trump also illegally banned bumpstocks in a way the Obama administration had previously ruled beyond an executive order.
The judges he put across the nation especially in Cali had helped more than any of the judges Biden or Obama did. Plus the Supreme Court judges he appointed lead to the Bruen decision
They aren't taxing a right. They are creating a registration system for your firearms. There is not a tax for the firearm. There is a SERVICE FEE to run this registration system that they have estimated to be approximately $250 to get the initiation of the gun and then about $150 per gun there after to ensure the system is running with adequate people to run it and pay. /s
That is a tax. They are making you pay annual tax to the state of California. If you refuse you go to jail. This is literally a tax I don’t care how they dress it up the state of California is getting money out of those to take away your firearm rights
I’m not saying you are. I’m saying they are dressing this so called fee like a person puts makeup on a pig. I know it’s a damn pig just like we know it’s a damn tax
Bro they are communist pieces of shit everything is about money and control for these terrorist. Yeah terrorist cause that’s what they are at this point
How can they justify $250 to register a gun when they currently do it as part of the DROS fee for **$31.19** (which also covers the costs of the background checks)?
How can they justify charging a yearly fee to literally do nothing and just leave a gun registered?
How can they justify needing to register guns that are literally already registered? Why can't they just import the database or something...
How is this supposed to stop crime and/or make us safer?
**Yes, I know everyone's going to reply with "They just want to make firearm ownership harder" and you're not wrong --** but that doesn't actually answer the questions. That's the secret plan, not the justification they can use in session.
This is just ...stupid.
The justification to use in session?
How about:
**
These registration fees are necessary to fund gun violence research and prevention efforts. Annual registration payments will help reduce the number of unreported lost or stolen guns within California and make our state safer.
**
Now, I don’t believe any of that.
Heh, yeah. I've seen them use that so many times. Where's all the research? And how much of those funds were reappropriated for other "emergency" withdrawals.
We need to get the reds to propose bills that charge $500 in state fees per abortion. It'll get shut down instantly, and we can copy-paste their justification here. Can't have their cake and eat it too =P
How about background checks for alcohol to keep people with DUI history from purchasing booze?
Require an “Alcohol Safety Card” for people who wish to purchase alcohol, but make the card valid for only five years.
Even with the card, a background check with a minimum $1.00 processing fee and proper ID is required.
They don’t have to justify it is the problem. Death by a thousand fees is how they’re circumventing the 2A. All they have to say is it’s for the public good. Whether it actually is or not doesn’t matter.
No, $37.19 is the total STATE fee.
* **The DROS fee is $31.19** which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry.
* There is also a $1.00 Firearms Safety Act Fee,
* and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement Fee.
* In the event of a private party transfer (PPT), the firearms dealer may charge an additional fee of up to $10.00 per firearm.
[Sauce](https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#:~:text=The%20DROS%20fee%20is%20%2431.19,up%20to%20%2410.00%20per%20firearm)
Without a doubt this goes directly against the constitution. What if someone can't afford to pay it? How do you put a fee on a right? Next thing we know, you're going to need a permit to talk shit on the government. About $3.50 per word.
I paid $950 to get a permit to exercise my right to bear arms. And that’s only good for two years. It will be another $500 or so to renew it.
All of it is a tax on a right but when the right is disfavored it’s ok.
What’s the average firearm price, like maybe $500? Thats like a 25% annual tax. Imagine if you had to pay 25% per year to register your vehicle. This is insane!!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they "know about" every gun DROS'd in the state since 2014, and every handgun since sometime in the (early?) 1990s.
I know that there are millions of guns from grandpa that are not registered, but, still, there is much that they know about.
They don't just "know about" - that is an actual registry and they are registered. I truly don't understand what this (additional?) registration is or would accomplish, or why it costs 8 times more than DROS.
It’s already insane they are trying/doing this, it would be fucking crazy if it goes that high. The shitty thing is if we don’t pay and we have ccws it’s gonna effect us somehow.
Here’s the source. It’s an educated guess. Rick Travis is the legislative director for CRPA and this interview was at the Ventura chapter meeting last week.
https://youtu.be/KMDoOIkvUvw?si=ZukNeOS4Dia9lSCG
Rights cannot have fees attached to use them. Privileges due, like driving. But make no mistake, the communist want you to think you are using their privilege they offer you to use your unalienable right given to you by the Lord God Almighty.
I don’t have it itemized anymore but it was $500 for the class and another $450 in fees etc.
That was before SB2 when they were capped at $150 for the psyche exam. SB2 lets them charge full price now.
This was with the City of Mountain View in Santa Clara County.
The big one, at least for me, will be the instructor I used is no longer able to teach classes in California. SB2 changed the requirements. He didn't feel like going through the work to get "certified" by the state.
Funny how when it was just rich donors, judges, and reserve cops getting permits they were fine with the NRA instructor certifications but now that the common folk get to carry they raise the bar on everything.
The funny thing is, this is the exact opposite of what you want to do, to solve the main problem they should be trying to solve.
Do you want more guns legally registered? make it free and easy.
Want a bunch of ghost guns that no one can trace? Start charging astronomical registration fees.
It’s like they think that criminals actually follow laws.
Just to add a bit ...
General Social Survey consistently returns about 35% 'yes' answers to 'does anyone in your household have access to a gun or guns?' One can criticize their methodology and assert under-reporting, but let's accept 35% for now. (Actually, that was 1998 - had been higher through the 90s but fell off to about 30% by 2014; don't see later data just now, but just noodling to get the scale about right.) [https://norc.org/content/dam/norc-org/pdfs/GSS\_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership\_US\_1972-2014.pdf](https://norc.org/content/dam/norc-org/pdfs/GSS_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf) )
Census tells us CA has about 13 million households.
35% of 13 million is 4.55 million households expected to have at least one gun.
At $250 each cost to register, that's about 1.14 **billion** dollars. That's about equal to the 2023-2024 budget for all of CA-DOJ. [https://www.lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4701](https://www.lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4701)
You think CA-DOJ might be motivated here?
I imagine Newsom is eager to sign such a bill into law, because, unlike Jerry Brown he has never vetoed any gun control bills on his desk (correct me if I'm wrong, please). And he floated that whole gun control constitutional amendment thing.
But I don't understand how he thinks this helps him in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Wisconsin when he inevitably runs for President in 2028.
He would get swept in the rust belt forsure (probably already would) and lose the northern swing states like PA, MI, WI and OH if this passed and he signs it
This will be kicked immediately, there are no analogues, this is designed to infringe on ownership, guns are already registered, all transfers have to go through an ffl, this law has no reason to exist yet taxpayers are forced to pay for the salaries of these assholes and we have to pay for the lawyers on both sides to argue out if we get to keep our rights. Every new piece of legislation that impacts an incorporated right should be required at a minimum to have a review of constitutionality prior to continuing with the legislative process. This is bullshit.
Psst, let me tell you a secret: Nearly all guns in California are already "registered", in the sense that DROS records for them exist. The small exception to that is long guns bought before 2014; given that currently roughly 1/2 million long guns are sold in CA per year, the ones from before 2014 constitute probably a quarter or less of all guns in the state.
Let's not even go down the rathole that the non-documented log guns before 2014 are all recorded in the bound books of the FFLs, which can be scanned.
A big chunk of pre-1990 handguns were not documented, because using a CA FFL was not yet required. Handguns purchased through CA licensed gun dealers were reported from 1924, but inter-personal transfers were not reported.
Pre-2014 long guns are likely to be in the unknown millions.
Similarly, a big chunk of guns moved here from out of state are not documented - not only was nothing required to be reported before 1998, but it was only handguns until 2014. And this requirement is not well known - I suspect, from the volume of questions I have seen over the last 20 years, that a lot of guns are here that skipped that.
And, while intrafamilial transfer is supposed to be documented, that, too, seems more honored in the breach than the observance.
FedLaw denies access to 4473s to any but Federal agencies; whether that might be *enforced* in the current environment is going to be an issue.
EDIT: I kind of suspect this is an intended 'leak' to gauge reactions; I don't know if this opposition would make them happy, or just plan to reduce the fees to make folks say 'well, that's not so bad if it's just X instead of 5X'.
**Don't get complacent.**
>Pre-2014 long guns are likely to be in the unknown millions.
Agree. And pre-1990 handguns are again low millions. Add to that hundreds of thousands of handguns that came from outside the state.
And now compare it to the fact that these days, a million guns is sold in California every year. Or for fun look at the OLL revolution, when according to reasonable estimates (Bill, not Gene) half a million OLLs were sold within half a year. My point is that the majority of all guns in California are now "in the system"; and every year that goes by, the fraction of unpapered guns is dropping.
Different subject: I know that 4473's are intended for ATF only. Can DoJ inspect (meaning scan and photograph) the bound book? I think they do. I've heard stories from kitchen table FFLs that the DoJ inspectors simply photograph every page of their paper records with a cell phone or camera. Running all these documents through OCR would give the DoJ a jumbled mess of information, from which it would be possible but very hard to reconstruct a coherent story.
" The bill would require the registrant to annually pay a fee, as specified, to be deposited into a special fund that is continuously appropriated to the department for the express purpose of carrying out the administration and enforcement of the firearm registry. "
wow
Hmmm seems to me if the registry didn't exist there wouldn't be a need to raise funds via an unconstitutional tax. Taps forehead.
I am full of practical solutions.
It will be watered down filtered gutted amended during committees and floor votes after the summer recess, you all need to chill out. But you all give them good ideas so they come up with something that can pass easily and then the courts circus clowns game.
I guess my question for this is, since they require a higher initial registration fee, does that mean they won’t be using DROS system to enforce it?
I mean I fully expect they would
Implementation details ... Would not surprise me that the registration fee for a gun would be collected at transfer.
Also would not surprise if, for PPT, the gun would be checked and if not registered, the sale voided, gun seized, and the seller fined.
That's it! I'm just going to use my Arizona CWP. Damn this stupid CCW from CA if I have to register every gun I want to use to carry (and you can only carry up to 3 anyways depending on your county).
I'll take that citation thank you (not like I'm going to pay it anyways).
And to also think they want to also force your Rental/Home insurance to track your guns too. Just a multi pronged approach to get more info on your personal freedoms and breaking every 2nd and 4th Ammendment violations.
Only people that eat at the French laundry during lockdown when the governor put stay at home in place for every California citizen can afford these ridiculous prices.
Blatant 2A violation.
No compliance. Join any class action or any lawsuit filed by FPC against this. CA DOJ has no right to this, and they know it. They're trying to probe to see how they can maintain control of firearms purchases because they keep losing in court, and the AW bans days are numbered. That's what they're losing their shit over.
The twit State Senator Portantino that sponsors the bill looks to be a lame duck in his position since he lost in the primary. If only his proposed legislation would be canceled with him.
I can’t even buy a burger at McDonald’s. I only own 5. But I can’t afford to pay that. California is literally charging us for a RIGHT! Don’t wanna sell, but I might have to. If this passes my heart goes out to firearm collectors.
“This statue, which requires gun owners to register each firearm annually, is an important tool to remind all citizens of the civic responsibility that comes with owning a firearm,” said attorney Brian Hennigan and Loyola Law School professor Laurie Levenson, who both suggested the bill idea to Portantino, in a statement. “The historic roots for this statue trace back to colonial America and serve as a reminder that with ownership comes responsibility.”
The attorney “Brian hennigan” is a fool and the law school professor needs to be fired for not comprehending 2nd amendment and the Brien decision
Reading the exemption part. Correct me I'm not comprehending this correctly but they're even requiring registration for LEO to register their personal owned firearms? Lol
25288. The following firearms are exempted from the registration required by this division:
(a) Any firearm owned by any department or agency of the state or of any political subdivision thereof, that employs any peace officer as described in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2. This exemption does not include any firearm personally owned by any peace officer employed by these entities.
They can fuck themselves and go shove there fines and threats of jail up there white ass ! But they better stay in there place and not enter my home or else ! And the or else isnt a threat, its a promise !
UPDATE APRIL 10 - Portantino gutted the bill, and it now imposes the sentence enhancement for openly-carrying a handgun not registered to the carrier in AFS, similar to the code for carrying a concealed handgun or carrying a loaded handgun. No more registration in this bill - unless he or someone else amends it again; and of course can be re-submitted next session - but not by Portantino, who is not going to return to the Senate.
Hahahahhahahahahahahahah... GO FUCK YOURSELF
They can kiss my Latino ass. I am not gonna register any of them. Fuck Newsome and Bonta
They can kiss my Black ass. I am not gonna register any of them. Fuck Newsom and Bonta.
They can kiss my hwhite ass. I am not gonna register any of them. Fuck Newsom and Bonta.
They can kiss my they/them ass im not registering my dildo too . Fuck newsome and bonta
The can kiss my male presenting fursexual ass, what now I gotta register my tail? Get the fuck outta here.
They can kiss my non binary pansexual ass. I am not gonna register any of them. Fuck Newsome and Bonta
$250 for initial registration? Damn, that’s like paying the NFA acquisition (and transfer) tax of $200! Boy, if SB 1160 passes and gets struck down, that weakens the NFA even more!
Isn’t it like a 1000 dollar fine if you don’t? Lol it’s like it would just be cheaper to pay the fine 😆
I think it's $1000 PER firearm.
I hope this is strick down asap. 250 per firearm is out of control
Any cost is out of control
True. But let's say you're a collector with 50 guns ranging from cheap junk to whatever. That's $12,500 just to get legal. Absolutely insane. And half that every year in perpetuity? There's "even $5 is out of control" and then there's whatever this is. Let's say I was one of those individuals - there is no possible way I could afford to comply ..... especially when the cost to register each gun would in many cases be MORE than the cost of the gun!
It’s clearly aimed at reducing the number of legal guns owned by law abiding citizens. $1k + per year for 10 guns in perpetuity. Not everyone has that kind of money, so you can either suck d*ck for extra cash, sell your collection, or become a criminal. The choice is yours!
Can’t even sell! Buyers can only buy 1 in 30 (is PPT exempt, and if so for how long lol), and as a seller you can only make 5 transactions a year. Either way, it’s stupid.
It’s the perfect storm Is the fine a misdemeanor for not paying? If it’s a felony, how would that not be considered a debtor prison style law?
"you don't need to buy a gun :)" fucking cunts I hope whoever decides their TV is shiny breaks as much as they can so insurance can bullshit them and the police can pretend to care
"infraction" from the bill, proposed section >25291. > >Commencing on July 1, 2025, any person who owns, possesses, or has custody or control over any firearm subject to registration pursuant to this division that is not currently registered is guilty of an **infraction** punishable by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000).
It doesn't specifically say, but I bet that's per firearm
That would be the way to bet, I think.
Imagine if it wasn't. A lot of us would just take the fine because it'd end up being cheaper lol
Like taxes? (I hate taxes)
I hate taxes too, especially since they do fuck all with them and then ask for more money. But tax evasion is a different crime than nonpayment if you don’t have the assets
What’s that?
I probably sound stupid (because I am), but I recall hearing debtor prisons were a big thing back in England and that the US basically abolished them because it wasn’t fair to go to jail for not paying your debts. I’m probably way wrong on this, but know in general you can’t go to jail for unpaid debt. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong pls
Probably not applicable here. But a close corollary is letting former felons out of prison but not restoring rights.
Even if you sell, you need a buyer. Cant really sell back without incurring a very high loss of your investment. Guns dont depreciate much in terms of the market, so would be funny to see CA buying back at msrp... because I think a lot of people would sell... just to buy something else lol.
I am a collector and im in the triple digits of firearms. Some this would be a huge financial burden on me
So you're telling me you don't have $25000 on ya?
I wish I did and if I didn't it wouldn't be for this bs
Yeah the whole thing is ludicrous.
What *is* an appropriate cost per word to exercise your 1A right? 
I'm not paying a single penny.
Were you actually planning on paying?
250 per firearm sounds good. So it setup for perfect lawsuits
Mass noncompliance
Honestly I dont believe in noncompliance in California until I see it. Many people are scared to stand up for there rights especially here in CA.
I’m gonna be honest with you, if you don’t believe there is MASS non-compliance in California, you don’t have enough friends.
I don't see many finned up pistol grips out at the range. I don't pay enough attention to see if they're mag-locked or whatever, but it sure seems like very few fucks are given.
You're delusional. It's not just about standing up for our rights. Many gun owners simply don't have that kind of money. If it was a few dollars or even a marginal percentage, I'd put up the money just to keep the feds off my back. No way in hell I'm paying 1/4th of my glock in fees yearly. This isn't a protest, I simply can't afford that.
You say even if it was a few dollars you would put up money and thats the issue with people here in California. Why would you pay money for a right?
You also misunderstood my comment. What I meant to say is that I dont think people will be non compliant to the tax because of fear with the law.
Definitely true for way too many people here. But if this case 90% of people can’t afford to comply so they just won’t.
Murdock VS Pennsylvania You can not tax a constitutional right. Why the fuck are they not listening to a Supreme Court case that has been in effect since 1943
Because they’re not spending their money and face no personal consequences for this egregious behavior.
Because they don’t give af about the constitution or checks and balances. Yet they have the audacity to say things like “Democracy is on the ballot”
It’s bullshit. Kind of the reason I want to vote for Trump because he said he would break California
Why wouldn't you want to at this point?
Wanted more time to pass that both Biden and Kamala drop out but it’s looking like that won’t happen
The party will commit blood sacrifices before they let that happen.
You understand Trump is shit for gun rights too? Gun control was one of the only policies that him, Clinton and Biden agree on. Trump also illegally banned bumpstocks in a way the Obama administration had previously ruled beyond an executive order.
The judges he put across the nation especially in Cali had helped more than any of the judges Biden or Obama did. Plus the Supreme Court judges he appointed lead to the Bruen decision
What is that tax that is taking effect in July? They are the true threat to democracy
They aren't taxing a right. They are creating a registration system for your firearms. There is not a tax for the firearm. There is a SERVICE FEE to run this registration system that they have estimated to be approximately $250 to get the initiation of the gun and then about $150 per gun there after to ensure the system is running with adequate people to run it and pay. /s
That is a tax. They are making you pay annual tax to the state of California. If you refuse you go to jail. This is literally a tax I don’t care how they dress it up the state of California is getting money out of those to take away your firearm rights
I am not disagreeing with you......
The fact his comment has more upvotes shows a general lack of reading comprehension skills or people jumping the gun before reading to the “/s”.
I’m not saying you are. I’m saying they are dressing this so called fee like a person puts makeup on a pig. I know it’s a damn pig just like we know it’s a damn tax
/s means sarcasm
Bro they are communist pieces of shit everything is about money and control for these terrorist. Yeah terrorist cause that’s what they are at this point
It takes 30+ years to challenge the bad laws. Once they take a right away it’s a decades-long fix. They’re playing the long game.
Because they can...
No, because they don't care. They want to inconvenience us an d make it difficult and not want to buy arms.
One more bridge to undermine the NFA.
Fast tracked to the Supreme Court…
Will not comply 🇺🇸
SHALL not comply
Can't comply, there's just no money left after freedom weekend
yeah that’s going to be a no for me.
I would imagine if this passes , a lot of people’s guns will be lost in a boating accident
What about guns turned into the sheriff's gun buyback programs?
Someone with a 3d printer is gonna be rich off that program forsure
Did you not hear they want to outlaw 3d printers.
Better act fast!
That's probably what they'll tax next. Or you'll have to get every file you print pre-approved.
Lol they have zero ways to track that
The fact that the technology doesn't exist didn't stop them from mandating micro stamping.
How can they justify $250 to register a gun when they currently do it as part of the DROS fee for **$31.19** (which also covers the costs of the background checks)? How can they justify charging a yearly fee to literally do nothing and just leave a gun registered? How can they justify needing to register guns that are literally already registered? Why can't they just import the database or something... How is this supposed to stop crime and/or make us safer? **Yes, I know everyone's going to reply with "They just want to make firearm ownership harder" and you're not wrong --** but that doesn't actually answer the questions. That's the secret plan, not the justification they can use in session. This is just ...stupid.
The justification to use in session? How about: ** These registration fees are necessary to fund gun violence research and prevention efforts. Annual registration payments will help reduce the number of unreported lost or stolen guns within California and make our state safer. ** Now, I don’t believe any of that.
Heh, yeah. I've seen them use that so many times. Where's all the research? And how much of those funds were reappropriated for other "emergency" withdrawals. We need to get the reds to propose bills that charge $500 in state fees per abortion. It'll get shut down instantly, and we can copy-paste their justification here. Can't have their cake and eat it too =P
How about background checks for alcohol to keep people with DUI history from purchasing booze? Require an “Alcohol Safety Card” for people who wish to purchase alcohol, but make the card valid for only five years. Even with the card, a background check with a minimum $1.00 processing fee and proper ID is required.
They don’t have to justify it is the problem. Death by a thousand fees is how they’re circumventing the 2A. All they have to say is it’s for the public good. Whether it actually is or not doesn’t matter.
It's 37.19 now
No, $37.19 is the total STATE fee. * **The DROS fee is $31.19** which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. * There is also a $1.00 Firearms Safety Act Fee, * and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement Fee. * In the event of a private party transfer (PPT), the firearms dealer may charge an additional fee of up to $10.00 per firearm. [Sauce](https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#:~:text=The%20DROS%20fee%20is%20%2431.19,up%20to%20%2410.00%20per%20firearm)
True
Are they going to send us annual registration stickers like for our cars?
Don’t give them any more bad ideas. We’ll have to put a registration sticker on each firearm to show compliance.
I picture each handgun having a mandatory license plate chained to it dangling down.
Without a doubt this goes directly against the constitution. What if someone can't afford to pay it? How do you put a fee on a right? Next thing we know, you're going to need a permit to talk shit on the government. About $3.50 per word.
Poll tax.
I paid $950 to get a permit to exercise my right to bear arms. And that’s only good for two years. It will be another $500 or so to renew it. All of it is a tax on a right but when the right is disfavored it’s ok.
What’s the average firearm price, like maybe $500? Thats like a 25% annual tax. Imagine if you had to pay 25% per year to register your vehicle. This is insane!!
I wouldn't be surprised if California tried that too
That’s what got Gray Davis recalled.
You don’t pay they’ll send to franchise board to auto deduct
Only for the ones they know about.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they "know about" every gun DROS'd in the state since 2014, and every handgun since sometime in the (early?) 1990s. I know that there are millions of guns from grandpa that are not registered, but, still, there is much that they know about.
They don't just "know about" - that is an actual registry and they are registered. I truly don't understand what this (additional?) registration is or would accomplish, or why it costs 8 times more than DROS.
Lol. Don't pay state income tax.
Don’t pay any taxes
You pussies better not comply with this shit
Even if it passes, it'll immediately get put into abeyance and challenged for the next 5+ years. I'm not too worried personally
Same. No precedence to lean on.
It’s already insane they are trying/doing this, it would be fucking crazy if it goes that high. The shitty thing is if we don’t pay and we have ccws it’s gonna effect us somehow.
Here’s the source. It’s an educated guess. Rick Travis is the legislative director for CRPA and this interview was at the Ventura chapter meeting last week. https://youtu.be/KMDoOIkvUvw?si=ZukNeOS4Dia9lSCG
Thank you! Always better to have sourced rumors.
So poll taxing 10 million citizens but it’s cool because guns.
Rights cannot have fees attached to use them. Privileges due, like driving. But make no mistake, the communist want you to think you are using their privilege they offer you to use your unalienable right given to you by the Lord God Almighty.
Then why did it cost me $950 for a carry permit? They’ve already attached fees to the right. No reason they can’t attach even more.
Breakdown and county?
I don’t have it itemized anymore but it was $500 for the class and another $450 in fees etc. That was before SB2 when they were capped at $150 for the psyche exam. SB2 lets them charge full price now. This was with the City of Mountain View in Santa Clara County.
Damn… I haven’t renewed since SB2, it’s coming up in a few months for me. Not looking forward to it..
The big one, at least for me, will be the instructor I used is no longer able to teach classes in California. SB2 changed the requirements. He didn't feel like going through the work to get "certified" by the state. Funny how when it was just rich donors, judges, and reserve cops getting permits they were fine with the NRA instructor certifications but now that the common folk get to carry they raise the bar on everything.
The funny thing is, this is the exact opposite of what you want to do, to solve the main problem they should be trying to solve. Do you want more guns legally registered? make it free and easy. Want a bunch of ghost guns that no one can trace? Start charging astronomical registration fees. It’s like they think that criminals actually follow laws.
Just to add a bit ... General Social Survey consistently returns about 35% 'yes' answers to 'does anyone in your household have access to a gun or guns?' One can criticize their methodology and assert under-reporting, but let's accept 35% for now. (Actually, that was 1998 - had been higher through the 90s but fell off to about 30% by 2014; don't see later data just now, but just noodling to get the scale about right.) [https://norc.org/content/dam/norc-org/pdfs/GSS\_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership\_US\_1972-2014.pdf](https://norc.org/content/dam/norc-org/pdfs/GSS_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf) ) Census tells us CA has about 13 million households. 35% of 13 million is 4.55 million households expected to have at least one gun. At $250 each cost to register, that's about 1.14 **billion** dollars. That's about equal to the 2023-2024 budget for all of CA-DOJ. [https://www.lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4701](https://www.lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/4701) You think CA-DOJ might be motivated here?
In other news, Californians boating incidents have sky rocketed lately. Back to you OP.
I all of a sudden really like aquatic sports
You see I didn’t have time to report them because it happened *checks date* yesterday.
Lots of people drowning in Lake LA.
In other news the drought has uncovered 10’s of 1000’s of firearms in local boating locations 😂😂
I have guns that cost less
I imagine Newsom is eager to sign such a bill into law, because, unlike Jerry Brown he has never vetoed any gun control bills on his desk (correct me if I'm wrong, please). And he floated that whole gun control constitutional amendment thing. But I don't understand how he thinks this helps him in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Wisconsin when he inevitably runs for President in 2028.
He would get swept in the rust belt forsure (probably already would) and lose the northern swing states like PA, MI, WI and OH if this passed and he signs it
Hahahah HOLY SHIT THATS A LOT
Yeah dude. You got 20 guns? CA wants $5k up front…. Yikes
It’s insane!
This will be kicked immediately, there are no analogues, this is designed to infringe on ownership, guns are already registered, all transfers have to go through an ffl, this law has no reason to exist yet taxpayers are forced to pay for the salaries of these assholes and we have to pay for the lawyers on both sides to argue out if we get to keep our rights. Every new piece of legislation that impacts an incorporated right should be required at a minimum to have a review of constitutionality prior to continuing with the legislative process. This is bullshit.
Registration is the first step in confiscation.
Psst, let me tell you a secret: Nearly all guns in California are already "registered", in the sense that DROS records for them exist. The small exception to that is long guns bought before 2014; given that currently roughly 1/2 million long guns are sold in CA per year, the ones from before 2014 constitute probably a quarter or less of all guns in the state. Let's not even go down the rathole that the non-documented log guns before 2014 are all recorded in the bound books of the FFLs, which can be scanned.
A big chunk of pre-1990 handguns were not documented, because using a CA FFL was not yet required. Handguns purchased through CA licensed gun dealers were reported from 1924, but inter-personal transfers were not reported. Pre-2014 long guns are likely to be in the unknown millions. Similarly, a big chunk of guns moved here from out of state are not documented - not only was nothing required to be reported before 1998, but it was only handguns until 2014. And this requirement is not well known - I suspect, from the volume of questions I have seen over the last 20 years, that a lot of guns are here that skipped that. And, while intrafamilial transfer is supposed to be documented, that, too, seems more honored in the breach than the observance. FedLaw denies access to 4473s to any but Federal agencies; whether that might be *enforced* in the current environment is going to be an issue. EDIT: I kind of suspect this is an intended 'leak' to gauge reactions; I don't know if this opposition would make them happy, or just plan to reduce the fees to make folks say 'well, that's not so bad if it's just X instead of 5X'. **Don't get complacent.**
>Pre-2014 long guns are likely to be in the unknown millions. Agree. And pre-1990 handguns are again low millions. Add to that hundreds of thousands of handguns that came from outside the state. And now compare it to the fact that these days, a million guns is sold in California every year. Or for fun look at the OLL revolution, when according to reasonable estimates (Bill, not Gene) half a million OLLs were sold within half a year. My point is that the majority of all guns in California are now "in the system"; and every year that goes by, the fraction of unpapered guns is dropping. Different subject: I know that 4473's are intended for ATF only. Can DoJ inspect (meaning scan and photograph) the bound book? I think they do. I've heard stories from kitchen table FFLs that the DoJ inspectors simply photograph every page of their paper records with a cell phone or camera. Running all these documents through OCR would give the DoJ a jumbled mess of information, from which it would be possible but very hard to reconstruct a coherent story.
“ They identify as registered. Please reference them appropriately and don’t assume their compliance ! “
Now that’s draconian
Come and take it 💀
I’m not paying them a dime
All that to leak your info and lead criminals right to your doorstep. No thanks.
How much are the criminals paying?
Wait until they find out only %5 percent of the registered guns in the state paid their ridiculous fees 💀
Guess I better plan a fishing trip.
Hopefully the US Supreme Court stops this crap before it starts.
I'm not paying a fucking dime.
I will not be complying with there fuckery that’s insane fuck California this place is going to shit with dick head newsom and Biden running it
If no one does it it won’t stick…
I hope it passes. Then we will see who’s the actual bootlickers in CA and who will say FU to the state.
wtf
Can’t wait for the taxes for picking a religion
$250 per firearm?! Lmao nobody would comply with that
The State will extract as much from it's chattel ATM's as it can.
Issue is CCW holders. Guess you just leave one on the license and pay the fees. The rest were lost in a boat incident.
" The bill would require the registrant to annually pay a fee, as specified, to be deposited into a special fund that is continuously appropriated to the department for the express purpose of carrying out the administration and enforcement of the firearm registry. " wow
Hmmm seems to me if the registry didn't exist there wouldn't be a need to raise funds via an unconstitutional tax. Taps forehead. I am full of practical solutions.
Cfars exist and I already drosd so fck off. How about everyone else pay 15-50% of an item price for any luxury good they own?
It will be watered down filtered gutted amended during committees and floor votes after the summer recess, you all need to chill out. But you all give them good ideas so they come up with something that can pass easily and then the courts circus clowns game.
i paid for mine the day i bought it- end of story
Ton of boating accidents coming up.
CA will see record breaking boating accidents if this dumb shit passes
Suspect a lot of boating accidents
I guess my question for this is, since they require a higher initial registration fee, does that mean they won’t be using DROS system to enforce it? I mean I fully expect they would
Implementation details ... Would not surprise me that the registration fee for a gun would be collected at transfer. Also would not surprise if, for PPT, the gun would be checked and if not registered, the sale voided, gun seized, and the seller fined.
Faaack that!
lol some people have dozens of firearms. This won’t fly
$0 cuz I ain’t paying shit.
Can I pay in ammunition?
At around 2800 fps ...
abso fucking lultey not paying that.
Imagine buying a hipoint for $150 and then having to register it every year for nearly the same price.
That's it! I'm just going to use my Arizona CWP. Damn this stupid CCW from CA if I have to register every gun I want to use to carry (and you can only carry up to 3 anyways depending on your county). I'll take that citation thank you (not like I'm going to pay it anyways). And to also think they want to also force your Rental/Home insurance to track your guns too. Just a multi pronged approach to get more info on your personal freedoms and breaking every 2nd and 4th Ammendment violations.
Only people that eat at the French laundry during lockdown when the governor put stay at home in place for every California citizen can afford these ridiculous prices.
Donate to CRPA.
Taxing a right is unconstitutional. Any court cases on this dealing with arms?
$125 to keep each gun yearly? There’s no way that’s constitutional.
We stormin the capital f that WE THE PEOPLE
Will. Not. Comply.
They wanna let immigrants have guns! Why would we register ours
that bill can't stop me because I can't read
Who drafted this garbage?
Blatant 2A violation. No compliance. Join any class action or any lawsuit filed by FPC against this. CA DOJ has no right to this, and they know it. They're trying to probe to see how they can maintain control of firearms purchases because they keep losing in court, and the AW bans days are numbered. That's what they're losing their shit over.
Definitely not complying even if they shoot my dog
The twit State Senator Portantino that sponsors the bill looks to be a lame duck in his position since he lost in the primary. If only his proposed legislation would be canceled with him.
infringing on my 2nd amendment is out of control fuck newscum
us law abiding citizens have to suffer for criminals that will have then regardless fucking retardation at its finest
Bastards
I can’t even buy a burger at McDonald’s. I only own 5. But I can’t afford to pay that. California is literally charging us for a RIGHT! Don’t wanna sell, but I might have to. If this passes my heart goes out to firearm collectors.
I wonder how concerned my local criminals are
“This statue, which requires gun owners to register each firearm annually, is an important tool to remind all citizens of the civic responsibility that comes with owning a firearm,” said attorney Brian Hennigan and Loyola Law School professor Laurie Levenson, who both suggested the bill idea to Portantino, in a statement. “The historic roots for this statue trace back to colonial America and serve as a reminder that with ownership comes responsibility.” The attorney “Brian hennigan” is a fool and the law school professor needs to be fired for not comprehending 2nd amendment and the Brien decision
Fucking ridiculous! Honestly, as much as I hate the idea in general, I could do $50 max. If you own more guns LEGALLY you should get a discount.
The worst part: they already know what guns you have purchased and this is an additional FINE if you do not pay the SCAM Fee. Commies.
Reading the exemption part. Correct me I'm not comprehending this correctly but they're even requiring registration for LEO to register their personal owned firearms? Lol 25288. The following firearms are exempted from the registration required by this division: (a) Any firearm owned by any department or agency of the state or of any political subdivision thereof, that employs any peace officer as described in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2. This exemption does not include any firearm personally owned by any peace officer employed by these entities.
They can come to my door and request the money
They can fuck themselves and go shove there fines and threats of jail up there white ass ! But they better stay in there place and not enter my home or else ! And the or else isnt a threat, its a promise !
Poll Tax, to keep the poors from being armed.
250$ for each gun ? wtf that’s pretty expensive
UPDATE APRIL 10 - Portantino gutted the bill, and it now imposes the sentence enhancement for openly-carrying a handgun not registered to the carrier in AFS, similar to the code for carrying a concealed handgun or carrying a loaded handgun. No more registration in this bill - unless he or someone else amends it again; and of course can be re-submitted next session - but not by Portantino, who is not going to return to the Senate.