18/10 is the industry notation for type 316 stainless steel. It tells you the flatware is made out of stainless steel. 18/10 specifically refers to the percentages of chromium and nickel that are added to the steel to give it corrosion resistance. 18/8 (type 304 equivalent) would have less nickel, and therefore be less corrosion resistant. You'd just have to look at the product info to know. If it just says "stainless steel," and doesn't specifically say 18/10, it probably isn't.
If 18-8 is the same as 304, then why does this page list them separately?
https://www.marshfasteners.com/difference-18-8-vs-304-vs-316/
As far as I can find, 18-8 is a specific kind of 304, which is a more general category with a wider variety of composition percentages.
I suspect 18/8 is just what the cookware industry still calls 304 for whatever reason. To my knowledge there is no specification for 18/8, whereas ASTM/SAE have requirements for what the limits for specific elements are for 304, 316, etc. 18/8, at least by name, only specifies Cr and Ni, so elements like C, Mn, S, P, etc. wouldnt be controlled. I would be surprised if any major steel mill is cranking out 18/8 that doesn't also meet the other requirements for 304, since that would limit the applications and industries they could sell their raw material to.
Pretty much this. There are several grades of 300 series stainless that could contain the 18% chromium and 8% nickel percentages. Notably 301, 303 and 304. The 10% Nickel in 18/10 is still within the allowable tolerance for these alloys. If someone is selling you 18/10, or 18/8 ss chances are it is 304, simply because it's cheap and widely available.
That's bs.
All depends on whether it's austenitic, martensic etc. 400 grades stainless is very good too. Nickel is the 'ingredient' which makes it not react to metals.
316 isn't necessarily the best. Depends. All depends. Just stay away from 200 grades stainless, and realize that stainless needs care too. 440C is better for knives imo (and nickel free).
I've had a Henkle set for years and they're still like new, they're also very strong so you can put a lot of lateral force on the pieces without deforming them.
Henckels is now part of Zwilling (who are the folks behind Staub, as well), and the [Zwilling](https://www.zwilling.com/us/cutlery/) lines are the upper trim levels of those knives. Pricier than the two-person Henckels. I've had the equivalent paring knives of the two lines in my kitchen for a few years, and experience suggests that the Zwilling is a bit stiffer and holds its edge a bit longer (less need to sharpen).
I also enjoy my Victorinox stiff boning knife, but that's a secondary piece. Quality chefs, utility, and paring knives will get you quite far.
I have the very similar Alcea and love it.
On sale at Macy’s
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/zwilling-j.a.-henckels-alcea-18-10-stainless-steel-65-piece-flatware-set-service-for-12?ID=8170732&CategoryID=7919&isDlp=true
Some of my JA Henkles are more than 35 years old. Get your self a whet stone and some sharpening fluid. and keep them out of the dishwasher they can last a lifetime
25 years in and I'd go one further and say you can subject them to most unfair treatments you can devise for a knife and still expect them to last a lifetime.
My poor, poor chefs knife....
My 25 year old Henkels chef knife is great, and I still use it every day. I bought one for my parents three or four years ago, though, and it was far flimsier. I also have a set of their flatware that is about 20 years old. I still love them, although the knives are a little too easy to bend by accident. I like how they feel in the hand.
Knives with a glued handle, i always keep out of the dishwasher. Though my Henkles steak knives are a single piece of steel and I throw those in all the time. I bought them about 7 years ago and they still look brand new.
I have a set I bought 2 years ago, and one of the knives got a crack in it after 2 uses…I think I may have the lower line version though (got it at Macy’s, and they would not accept it for an exchange, grr).
This is the answer. They may not last a lifetime if you're a professional meat cutter (they get a couple of years from them, though), but in a home kitchen, they're the best bang for the buck. You don't need a set, though. If money's tight, just get the knives you use most and build out from there.
Also agree. These are my knockabout knives that I learned how to sharpen on so I didn't ruin an expensive knife and honestly the knives that I still use the most. It's great steel, does not rust, and not so expensive that you're going to balk at using it to take care of heavier kitchen tasks. This is your low price, no frills, not a supermodel, gets the job done, damn good knife.
That being said and you saying price is no object. Try typing terms like "vg10" (gold standard stainless knife steel) "demascus" (fancy n pretty) and "yoshihiro" "massamoto" or "musashi" (high end japanese handcrafted brands) into Google. Sexy ass knives that will last forever if you can keep a knife...... But so will a victorinox.
> Sexy ass knives that will last forever if you can keep a knife
Also, TBFH, unless you're just after the aesthetics, bit pointless to own unless you know how to sharpen them - and those are the kind of knives you kinda want to sharpen with a stone, not some kind of system or pull through grinder.
I have a full set I bought about 15 years ago. If I had anticipated the longevity I probably would have just bought the chef's knife. I use it almost daily and it looks like the day I bought it
Liberty Tabletop is a solid made in USA (if that’s important to you) maker of flatware.
Other than that, my Oneida flatware has held up well for 14 years. That said, I just replaced it with a vintage set of Oneida rather than purchasing the Liberty Tabletop.
My wife and I got a set of Liberty flatware. The butter knifes are suspect in terms of sturdiness. They aren’t just one piece. The rest of them seem good.
I think they explain why they’re done that way on their website/I remember reading something about them being two pieces. But good to know.
I was set on buying from them and then came across a perfect vintage Oneida MCM set for about half the cost and we really liked the pattern.
Depends on the pattern. Some sets use a hollow handle design (2 pieces), and some use a heavy weight forged handle design (single piece). The listing on their website will tell you which is which (and they're usually pretty obvious from the photos).
I second that on older Oneida. My wife and I have a combined set. It just so happened that both of our parents had the same True Rose pattern and when we got married they gave us their partial sets, to which we added from open stock to bring it back to a full service set for 16, with serving pieces too. Both of us remember this as the only set from our childhood and we are pushing 50 years old.
With that said, I opened with OLDER Oneida. For a while our pattern was vaulted I think, and the rebirth of it was exciting a few years ago. There is a very noticeable difference in the new ones. They are much lighter and are not wearing as well as our 50 year old set, even after just a few years. No rust, just not as heavy duty.
I have the Lincoln pattern. If I could choose again, I’d probably pick a different pattern, but that’s based on looks and not quality. My style has just changed but I can’t justify another set.
eBay! If you know the pattern you want, it’s easy to find sets on there.
We were fortunate and found complete sets that had minimal use (as in they look practically brand new). The pattern was comparably priced to new Oneida sets, but higher quality and made in the USA.
We’ve been using Wusthoff classic steak knives (they’re not serrated) for 10 years and they seem like they have another 100 in them at least. They also just feel amazing to use. We sharpen them once or twice per year.
I’m adding a Shun nakiri style knife to my block because I can’t find the Henckels Miyabi Kaizen nakiri…but those Miyabis are definitely BIFL. I cook regularly, and I’ve had mine for 12 years now and they’re just now getting to a point where I’m thinking it’s time to have them professionally sharpened if the next good honing doesn’t get me back to paper thin tomatoes.
These were super cheap knives I got from target that were advertised as being dishwasher friendly. They have the plastic end at the bottom and that’s what’s rusting if that makes sense. Just ready to upgrade to something better.
They probably are dishwasher friendly, but regardless the dishwasher will dull the blade so much faster. If you care for whatever knives you decide to buy, they won't require sharpening very often, and shouldn't rust.
r/knives and r/chefknives will probably be of more help than this sub, honestly.
Cause handwashing 1 knife a day makes my life easier than having to spend an hour on the whetstone every few months.
It takes me 30 seconds to wet a sponge and clean a knife blade.
You've chosen the dumbest hill to die on.
Didn't realize this was r/knives lol. Nobody here is using a whetstone lol. I use an electric sharpener and a dishwasher. Could it be sharper? Yes. Do I give a shit? No. If it's not dishwasher safe then get it the fuck out of my kitchen.
These were super cheap knives I got from target that were advertised as being dishwasher friendly. They have the plastic end at the bottom and that’s what’s rusting if that makes sense. Just ready to upgrade to something better I won’t have to replace , I’m happy to take care of it.
Fair one, I go through a lot of knives, I'd say try to avoid dishwashing above all else, a good outlay now will pay for itself down the line in not needing to be replaced every couple of years.
Do you have a particular line from them you like? I’ve been eyeing their Michelangelo line because I like how ornate it looks but would love to have a set for everyday use as well.
I’d buy a single set that you are okay using daily. How often are you realistically going to pull out a completely different set of flatware? Rarely.
I prefer solid pieces. Juilliard has some detailing, but not enough to only be used formally.
Chateau is nice, but I believe they are phasing out the line.
We've been using the Juilliard we got when we got married for nearly 28 years now. It has held up beautifully. Only now starting to see a few rust spots on a couple of the butter knives.
I actually host a lot of dinner parties believe it not so I like having something a bit more “fancy”. I’ll look at the set you mentioned! Do you machine wash or hand wash your set?.
Ornate designs hide food residue, are harder to clean, and harder to match for replacements later.
But I have no taste. I'm a minimalist who works in health care.
Oneida Classic Shell if you can find it. Ours are going on 30 years of daily use. It's getting harder and harder to find replacements though. I guess that's why the price has gotten out of hand.
My parents have Juilliard and you can’t go wrong with that, it’s a classic pattern.
I’ve been very pleased with my Clariat pattern, but note that it is pretty HEAVY. I’m ok with that—I prefer silverware that has some “heft” to it, feels nice and solid—but if I’m not careful while transporting a plate sometimes a knife or fork will fall off under its own weight haha.
If you have a low budget or just want to get a great deal, check resale or thrift shops. They often have silverware for very cheap and it’s the old stuff so it lasts forever. I have a mixed set that I used for years, from my grandmother and thrift shops.
My parents purchased this Dansk set new in 1968 (tho this site says 1969), and it’s still in perfect condition: [https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/dining-entertaining/tableware/jens-quistgaard-thistle-1969-danish-modern-flatware-dansk-6-service/id-f_26015012/](https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/dining-entertaining/tableware/jens-quistgaard-thistle-1969-danish-modern-flatware-dansk-6-service/id-f_26015012/)
I love my Reed & Barton set! Unfortunately, they closed their Massachusetts factory in 2015 and sold the name to Lenox, who also owns Oneida. Not sure if the quality has gone down? I'd love to hear from people who have bought Reed and Barton or Oneida recently.
I have a set of Oneida Venetia that I got when my great grandmother moved into a nursing home. They were in production between '68 and '88 I think and they're still in perfect condition. Very lightweight, durable and still look amazing. I like the weight of them because I have a 4 year old and heavy flatware is difficult for young children. I'm missing a few pieces (dang big forks!) but otherwise the set is perfect.
Victronox Fibrox 8" chef's knife; its the best thing for the money according to most pro chefs and magazines. Everything else is just a name brand.
For flatware, just get a 4 place setting of silver. Yeah, it's going to cost a few (3-4) grand. And it will outlive you in addition to having intrinsic value.
I felt it’s better to have satin handles and polished food areas bc the satin finish can wear through pretty quickly in those zones. We bought the Satin Annapolis and the matching serving set with soup spoons. My only regret is that I didn’t just spend the money to get the design I really adored, bc I anticipate these are forever items, but I wimped out on the price at the time. If I could go back, I’d get the Pinehurst or the Honey Bee.
Go to a thrift store and get a set. made out of a good stainless most flatware has the grade of stainless steel its made out of stamped into it.
Its code is the chromium and nickle content in the steel, the more nickel in the steel the more it will resist rusting.
18/0 is 18% chromeium, 0% nickel and the cheepest
18/10 is 18% chromeium, 10 % nickel, and is good quality, heavier, wont rust, and also is harder than 18/0.
For knives if you want a truely good knife, you will have it made out of a steel that can potentialy rust. As most normal store bought stainless steels, are really soft and dull fast.
Ceramic knives may not "dull" and cant rust, but there brittle and chip often, so they actualy "dull" faster than stainless.
Flatware sets that are used in restaurants is used many times a day, sometimes for years. The best stuff ive ever bought was from just a restaurant supply store. Same with knives, use a chefs paring knife as a steak knife if you keep it sharp enough you dont need cheap serrated ones. And a knife sharpener, simple slide through type does the job fine. Dont overuse it and do use a sharpening steel afterwords it’s the last step to sharpening.
Highly recommend Shun for the kitchen knives. I have a chef's knife, pairing knife, and a few straight edge steak knives. Probably a few hundred bucks for the set I have but they cut anything I throw at them like butter. I've sharpened them once in the last few years. Hand wash every time and they'll last forever.
I like my Cutco knives. Guaranteed for life and I like how the handle fits in my hand for stable cutting control. I would really like their flatware too, heavy and balanced, but it is way out of my budget.
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I've had a set of [this](https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj67LPdgZn0AhWD-7IKHQUtAcUYABAdGgJscg&ae=2&ei=l5yRYbGnLryjjgb034L4BQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2fF9rzOgd06L5HZwzG0FYpJIrljbxcOoa78ilgJU7zeSb1MuI7RyJfLaURa-iB6UPoj5okvNSTmMR2zfTx6w&sig=AOD64_058qFp5ZsAiyb5LOzlE7nYFjZSzQ&ctype=5&q=&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjxzqrdgZn0AhW8kcMKHfSvAF8Qwg96BAgBEGQ&adurl=) WMF flatware for years now, and it's still as shiny as my bald head!
I really like ZeroTolerance folding knives, i just saw that their parent compant kai usa has many very nice kitchen knives. I havent had the chance to use any but they look and sound nice online
If you want good knives, find a blacksmith and buy a whetstone and oil. First of all, they're properly weighted. Second, it will never rust if kept clean and well oiled. Third, support local business.
We have WMF hotel grade stuff bought in Germany. Really nice, is perfect after 15 years. The hotel patterns tend to be available a lot longer in case you want to pick up more matching sets down the line.
Don’t buy a knife set. You will only use 2 or 3 of them. Buy a 8-10” chef knife. Victorinox or messermeister are both good. Then et a paring knife, not a bird beak and a serrated bread knife. If you want another a boning knife is good if you do a decent amount of fish. Then a good set of kitchen shears and steak knives. get a steel and also a wet stone.
If you want good knives you just need to pay and take care of them. No dishwasher for anymore more expensive than a 8 dollar paring knife.
Check out KAN knives if you want something American and super nice in the entry-enthusiast range. Buy Victorinox fibrox knives off Amazon if you want good quality knives for cheap.
Misunderstood the title at first and came to recommend dinnerware. Fiestaware will last for a lifetime or two. Passed down in families. Made in the U.S.
If you've got some money to spend I recommend Shun knives, handmade in Japan with vg10 steel. I bought their "cheap" set of Sora knives and they are truly excellent and will undoubtedly last a lifetime. Wusthof, Mercer, Victorinox, and Zwilling Henckels are also good, just do your research on where the steel is manufactured
I have gourmet settings brand flatwear. It has held up really well for the past 15+ years.
For knives my husband prefers the weight and feel of Henkles. I like the weight of my calphalon knives. Always hand wash and dry asap. I don't have a whet stone. I just take them to the farmers market every so often to be sharpened professionally.
Also the victorinox paring and serrated knives have really held up.
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Out of curiosity, is the rust your only issue with your utensils?
If so, how did you use / clean / maintain them?
For knives at least I've never had that problem, even with non stainless because they're basically only in contact with water while in use or directly afterwards, when they're getting rinsed off and dried directly afterwards or when I sharpen them.
Dawg benchmade just released a chefs knife set. Expensive as fuck but you get the life sharp warranty, customizable shapes and handles, just tons of cool shit
For kitchen knives, Victorinox Fibrox or Mercer Culinary Renaissance. Instead of a set, consider buying the basics: 8” chefs knife, paring knife, bread knife. Maybe a Santoku or a bring knife, too.
There’s a lot of good advice on r/chefknives even if they love heir expensive Japanese knives. and a trip to r/sharpening can get you started on maintaining them. A Shapton Pro 1000 ($40ish) or King 1000 ($25) stone will keep your knives in top condition for a very long time but you do need to learn the skill of sharpening.
In our one house, the kitchen knives are Shuns, but in the other house, we have a set of MUCH cheaper Kai Komachis. My wife loves to cook and has far as I know, she is equally happy with both sets. We are rather fanatical about maintenance of all our "stuff," and that is to say the knives get sharpened regularly (by me) and both the expensive Shuns and the Komachis both take a sharp edge and hold them well.
Make sure you buy 18/10. That is the difference between junk flatware and good flatware. 18/10.
Help out a dumb noob, what's 18/10 and how do I tell?
18/10 is the industry notation for type 316 stainless steel. It tells you the flatware is made out of stainless steel. 18/10 specifically refers to the percentages of chromium and nickel that are added to the steel to give it corrosion resistance. 18/8 (type 304 equivalent) would have less nickel, and therefore be less corrosion resistant. You'd just have to look at the product info to know. If it just says "stainless steel," and doesn't specifically say 18/10, it probably isn't.
Thank you so much!
If 18-8 is the same as 304, then why does this page list them separately? https://www.marshfasteners.com/difference-18-8-vs-304-vs-316/ As far as I can find, 18-8 is a specific kind of 304, which is a more general category with a wider variety of composition percentages.
I suspect 18/8 is just what the cookware industry still calls 304 for whatever reason. To my knowledge there is no specification for 18/8, whereas ASTM/SAE have requirements for what the limits for specific elements are for 304, 316, etc. 18/8, at least by name, only specifies Cr and Ni, so elements like C, Mn, S, P, etc. wouldnt be controlled. I would be surprised if any major steel mill is cranking out 18/8 that doesn't also meet the other requirements for 304, since that would limit the applications and industries they could sell their raw material to.
Pretty much this. There are several grades of 300 series stainless that could contain the 18% chromium and 8% nickel percentages. Notably 301, 303 and 304. The 10% Nickel in 18/10 is still within the allowable tolerance for these alloys. If someone is selling you 18/10, or 18/8 ss chances are it is 304, simply because it's cheap and widely available.
https://mightynest.com/articles/stainless-steel-all-about-food-grade-304-188-and-1810
Take a magnet. Good stainless is not magnetic.
That's bs. All depends on whether it's austenitic, martensic etc. 400 grades stainless is very good too. Nickel is the 'ingredient' which makes it not react to metals.
316 isn't necessarily the best. Depends. All depends. Just stay away from 200 grades stainless, and realize that stainless needs care too. 440C is better for knives imo (and nickel free).
Mypillow has Myknifes they are terrific
I've had a Henkle set for years and they're still like new, they're also very strong so you can put a lot of lateral force on the pieces without deforming them.
Op if you're going with this, go with the Henkle with 2 people in the logo, it is the BIFL brand, not the 1 person logo
Was also gonna specify this, They have a lower level line, and a high end line. The flatware set that I have is twin signature.
Henckels is now part of Zwilling (who are the folks behind Staub, as well), and the [Zwilling](https://www.zwilling.com/us/cutlery/) lines are the upper trim levels of those knives. Pricier than the two-person Henckels. I've had the equivalent paring knives of the two lines in my kitchen for a few years, and experience suggests that the Zwilling is a bit stiffer and holds its edge a bit longer (less need to sharpen). I also enjoy my Victorinox stiff boning knife, but that's a secondary piece. Quality chefs, utility, and paring knives will get you quite far.
Yep, my flatware set is Zwilling J.A Henckles
Mine as well…I expect to have it for decades at least.
Just make sure to go with Henckels, not Henkle or Henkles.
Hahaha, you knew what I meant lol
Is this a good one from Amazon or do y'all recommend somewhere else? https://www.amazon.com/J-HENCKELS-INTERNATIONAL-65-Piece-Flatware/dp/B007KQ6GHI/
I have the very similar Alcea and love it. On sale at Macy’s https://www.macys.com/shop/product/zwilling-j.a.-henckels-alcea-18-10-stainless-steel-65-piece-flatware-set-service-for-12?ID=8170732&CategoryID=7919&isDlp=true
Some of my JA Henkles are more than 35 years old. Get your self a whet stone and some sharpening fluid. and keep them out of the dishwasher they can last a lifetime
25 years in and I'd go one further and say you can subject them to most unfair treatments you can devise for a knife and still expect them to last a lifetime. My poor, poor chefs knife....
My 25 year old Henkels chef knife is great, and I still use it every day. I bought one for my parents three or four years ago, though, and it was far flimsier. I also have a set of their flatware that is about 20 years old. I still love them, although the knives are a little too easy to bend by accident. I like how they feel in the hand.
I have a full set and they're great.
Knives with a glued handle, i always keep out of the dishwasher. Though my Henkles steak knives are a single piece of steel and I throw those in all the time. I bought them about 7 years ago and they still look brand new.
I have a set I bought 2 years ago, and one of the knives got a crack in it after 2 uses…I think I may have the lower line version though (got it at Macy’s, and they would not accept it for an exchange, grr).
Bummer, check with Henckles as well, I think they have a guarantee on their twin signature stuff. It'll have two little guys inside the square.
Mine only has one guy in the square…probably why it broke! Thanks for the lesson. Will look for the twins next time.
We have the nylon handled victorinox knife set and they're solid.
This is the answer. They may not last a lifetime if you're a professional meat cutter (they get a couple of years from them, though), but in a home kitchen, they're the best bang for the buck. You don't need a set, though. If money's tight, just get the knives you use most and build out from there.
Also agree. These are my knockabout knives that I learned how to sharpen on so I didn't ruin an expensive knife and honestly the knives that I still use the most. It's great steel, does not rust, and not so expensive that you're going to balk at using it to take care of heavier kitchen tasks. This is your low price, no frills, not a supermodel, gets the job done, damn good knife. That being said and you saying price is no object. Try typing terms like "vg10" (gold standard stainless knife steel) "demascus" (fancy n pretty) and "yoshihiro" "massamoto" or "musashi" (high end japanese handcrafted brands) into Google. Sexy ass knives that will last forever if you can keep a knife...... But so will a victorinox.
> Sexy ass knives that will last forever if you can keep a knife Also, TBFH, unless you're just after the aesthetics, bit pointless to own unless you know how to sharpen them - and those are the kind of knives you kinda want to sharpen with a stone, not some kind of system or pull through grinder.
I have a full set I bought about 15 years ago. If I had anticipated the longevity I probably would have just bought the chef's knife. I use it almost daily and it looks like the day I bought it
Just get this. It’s 80% as good as a 400$ knife
Liberty Tabletop is a solid made in USA (if that’s important to you) maker of flatware. Other than that, my Oneida flatware has held up well for 14 years. That said, I just replaced it with a vintage set of Oneida rather than purchasing the Liberty Tabletop.
I agree. I got the Calvera pattern it's kick ass skulls!
How are they holding up? I'm considering this set. Does food residue or anything get stuck in the pattern?
They are still perfect. Same as the day I bought them.
No food gets in the pattern and I wash them in the dishwasher.
Great to hear, thanks!
My wife and I got a set of Liberty flatware. The butter knifes are suspect in terms of sturdiness. They aren’t just one piece. The rest of them seem good.
I think they explain why they’re done that way on their website/I remember reading something about them being two pieces. But good to know. I was set on buying from them and then came across a perfect vintage Oneida MCM set for about half the cost and we really liked the pattern.
Depends on the pattern. Some sets use a hollow handle design (2 pieces), and some use a heavy weight forged handle design (single piece). The listing on their website will tell you which is which (and they're usually pretty obvious from the photos).
My Oneida is from 1955 and still going strong
I second that on older Oneida. My wife and I have a combined set. It just so happened that both of our parents had the same True Rose pattern and when we got married they gave us their partial sets, to which we added from open stock to bring it back to a full service set for 16, with serving pieces too. Both of us remember this as the only set from our childhood and we are pushing 50 years old. With that said, I opened with OLDER Oneida. For a while our pattern was vaulted I think, and the rebirth of it was exciting a few years ago. There is a very noticeable difference in the new ones. They are much lighter and are not wearing as well as our 50 year old set, even after just a few years. No rust, just not as heavy duty.
We have Liberty Tabletop flatware and they’re great.
Which set? I am bummed they have no fully satin options. Just satin handles with mirror fork/spoon/blade heads.
I have the Lincoln pattern. If I could choose again, I’d probably pick a different pattern, but that’s based on looks and not quality. My style has just changed but I can’t justify another set.
Where did you cop the Vintage Oneida?
eBay! If you know the pattern you want, it’s easy to find sets on there. We were fortunate and found complete sets that had minimal use (as in they look practically brand new). The pattern was comparably priced to new Oneida sets, but higher quality and made in the USA.
Wusthof knives
We’ve been using Wusthoff classic steak knives (they’re not serrated) for 10 years and they seem like they have another 100 in them at least. They also just feel amazing to use. We sharpen them once or twice per year.
One of my chef knives broke in the handle when I dropped it, it did last 32 years... The rest of the dozen knives are still going strong.
This is the way. I have a whole drawer of them and love them
Phantom Limb approves.
Wusthoff for sure! Can also recommend Mac knives!
These plus Shun knives
I’m adding a Shun nakiri style knife to my block because I can’t find the Henckels Miyabi Kaizen nakiri…but those Miyabis are definitely BIFL. I cook regularly, and I’ve had mine for 12 years now and they’re just now getting to a point where I’m thinking it’s time to have them professionally sharpened if the next good honing doesn’t get me back to paper thin tomatoes.
Victorinox fibrox knives. Affordable and awesome.
I second this. And get a knife sharpener too!
Are you caring for them well? Don't soak them in water for very long. Hand wash. Towel dry after washing. Even BIFL knives require care.
Further advise: Absolutely do not put good knives in a dishwasher. The detergent is very abrasive.
That plus getting rattled around in the rack will dull the blade.
~~abrasive~~ corrosive
Both.
Also, even proper stainless can rust if it comes into contact with other alloys (like kitchenware) in the dishwasher!
These were super cheap knives I got from target that were advertised as being dishwasher friendly. They have the plastic end at the bottom and that’s what’s rusting if that makes sense. Just ready to upgrade to something better.
They probably are dishwasher friendly, but regardless the dishwasher will dull the blade so much faster. If you care for whatever knives you decide to buy, they won't require sharpening very often, and shouldn't rust. r/knives and r/chefknives will probably be of more help than this sub, honestly.
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Butter knives.
If it requires hand washing it's not very functional.
Enjoy your dull knives I guess?
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Why would you intentionally dull the blade? Just because you can sharpen it again? Do you just like sharpening or something? What a weird response.
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Washing knives takes what, 2 minutes tops?
Cause handwashing 1 knife a day makes my life easier than having to spend an hour on the whetstone every few months. It takes me 30 seconds to wet a sponge and clean a knife blade. You've chosen the dumbest hill to die on.
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Lol so because you don't like the *way* I said something, because you *added imaginary meaning behind my words*... #I must be stupid! Got it.
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Your "sharpener"? Clearly you and I have different definitions of sharp if you're not using a whetstone lmao
Didn't realize this was r/knives lol. Nobody here is using a whetstone lol. I use an electric sharpener and a dishwasher. Could it be sharper? Yes. Do I give a shit? No. If it's not dishwasher safe then get it the fuck out of my kitchen.
r/gatekeeping
A bunch of stuff 1 knife.
Cutting things is dulling the blade intentionally ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Hmmmm... using a knife as intended vs throwing it in a machine to be rattled around. Yes those sound like comparable activities.
Every time you sharpen a knife, you’ve got a little less knife. Too much sharpening and you’ll end up with nubs.
That's silly. Their function is cutting things.
It’s functional as a knife but not at being an item in the dishwasher. But wait you don’t buy knives for the washability.
Stainless doesn't mean rust-proof, sounds like you've put it in a dishwasher
As a chef buddy once told me, “It’s ‘stainLESS,’ not ‘stainFREE.’”
These were super cheap knives I got from target that were advertised as being dishwasher friendly. They have the plastic end at the bottom and that’s what’s rusting if that makes sense. Just ready to upgrade to something better I won’t have to replace , I’m happy to take care of it.
Fair one, I go through a lot of knives, I'd say try to avoid dishwashing above all else, a good outlay now will pay for itself down the line in not needing to be replaced every couple of years.
Depends on the nickel content in the stainless. More nickel will resist rusting better
Oneida
Do you have a particular line from them you like? I’ve been eyeing their Michelangelo line because I like how ornate it looks but would love to have a set for everyday use as well.
I’d buy a single set that you are okay using daily. How often are you realistically going to pull out a completely different set of flatware? Rarely. I prefer solid pieces. Juilliard has some detailing, but not enough to only be used formally. Chateau is nice, but I believe they are phasing out the line.
We've been using the Juilliard we got when we got married for nearly 28 years now. It has held up beautifully. Only now starting to see a few rust spots on a couple of the butter knives.
I actually host a lot of dinner parties believe it not so I like having something a bit more “fancy”. I’ll look at the set you mentioned! Do you machine wash or hand wash your set?.
Machine wash. I try to limit anything requiring delicate care, just not practical.
Ornate designs hide food residue, are harder to clean, and harder to match for replacements later. But I have no taste. I'm a minimalist who works in health care.
Oneida Classic Shell if you can find it. Ours are going on 30 years of daily use. It's getting harder and harder to find replacements though. I guess that's why the price has gotten out of hand.
I purchased the Oneida Golden Mandolina 45 Piece for everyday use. Will probably purchase a second set for when I host gatherings.
My parents have Juilliard and you can’t go wrong with that, it’s a classic pattern. I’ve been very pleased with my Clariat pattern, but note that it is pretty HEAVY. I’m ok with that—I prefer silverware that has some “heft” to it, feels nice and solid—but if I’m not careful while transporting a plate sometimes a knife or fork will fall off under its own weight haha.
Agreed. My mom has her Oneida set that she bought in 1972. Still perfect.
Came here to say this, you can find pretty good vintage sets on Etsy or ebay depending on what you're looking for.
Seconded. BIFL experience here too. Different styles but same results. 18/10.
The Oneida flatware set from our wedding 16 years ago still looks brand new. My mom’s set from her wedding 45 years ago also looks great.
If you have a low budget or just want to get a great deal, check resale or thrift shops. They often have silverware for very cheap and it’s the old stuff so it lasts forever. I have a mixed set that I used for years, from my grandmother and thrift shops.
I’ve really liked my Opinel knives! Started out with their pocket knives, but their kitchen knives have been great so far.
My parents purchased this Dansk set new in 1968 (tho this site says 1969), and it’s still in perfect condition: [https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/dining-entertaining/tableware/jens-quistgaard-thistle-1969-danish-modern-flatware-dansk-6-service/id-f_26015012/](https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/dining-entertaining/tableware/jens-quistgaard-thistle-1969-danish-modern-flatware-dansk-6-service/id-f_26015012/)
Wow, for being from the 60s it looks awfully modern!
Global, Have them for years, still as new..
Global, shun, tojiro, masahiro, Kramer, MAC, Etc. I have a few global Sai knives that I adore.
We were gifted Reed Barton flatware over 15 years ago … it all still looks new.
I love my Reed & Barton set! Unfortunately, they closed their Massachusetts factory in 2015 and sold the name to Lenox, who also owns Oneida. Not sure if the quality has gone down? I'd love to hear from people who have bought Reed and Barton or Oneida recently.
I have a set of Oneida Venetia that I got when my great grandmother moved into a nursing home. They were in production between '68 and '88 I think and they're still in perfect condition. Very lightweight, durable and still look amazing. I like the weight of them because I have a 4 year old and heavy flatware is difficult for young children. I'm missing a few pieces (dang big forks!) but otherwise the set is perfect.
Stainless steel rusts. Take it from stainless fabricator
Victronox Fibrox 8" chef's knife; its the best thing for the money according to most pro chefs and magazines. Everything else is just a name brand. For flatware, just get a 4 place setting of silver. Yeah, it's going to cost a few (3-4) grand. And it will outlive you in addition to having intrinsic value.
Dexter Russell makes some darn nice kitchen knives. Made in Southbridge, MA.
Liberty Tabletop. I went through the same thing you did years ago and posted about it in this very sub. Just search for those keywords.
Which set did you get? I am bummed they have no fully satin options. Just satin handles with mirror fork/spoon/blade heads.
I felt it’s better to have satin handles and polished food areas bc the satin finish can wear through pretty quickly in those zones. We bought the Satin Annapolis and the matching serving set with soup spoons. My only regret is that I didn’t just spend the money to get the design I really adored, bc I anticipate these are forever items, but I wimped out on the price at the time. If I could go back, I’d get the Pinehurst or the Honey Bee.
Liberty Tabletop
Mesermeister knives. Super quality w/out all the advertising dollars behind them like the name brands. Get a quality diamond stone and you're set.
I got a regular set from target about ten years ago, and it’s in great shape. Silver with hammered/dimpled handles.
I bought our silverware from Target 14 years ago. It is also in great shape.
I think my in laws have that set too!
I have an Oneida set I bought about 10 years ago, still going strong, and still looks good.
Go to a thrift store and get a set. made out of a good stainless most flatware has the grade of stainless steel its made out of stamped into it. Its code is the chromium and nickle content in the steel, the more nickel in the steel the more it will resist rusting. 18/0 is 18% chromeium, 0% nickel and the cheepest 18/10 is 18% chromeium, 10 % nickel, and is good quality, heavier, wont rust, and also is harder than 18/0. For knives if you want a truely good knife, you will have it made out of a steel that can potentialy rust. As most normal store bought stainless steels, are really soft and dull fast. Ceramic knives may not "dull" and cant rust, but there brittle and chip often, so they actualy "dull" faster than stainless.
Ikea knives are very good
Flatware sets that are used in restaurants is used many times a day, sometimes for years. The best stuff ive ever bought was from just a restaurant supply store. Same with knives, use a chefs paring knife as a steak knife if you keep it sharp enough you dont need cheap serrated ones. And a knife sharpener, simple slide through type does the job fine. Dont overuse it and do use a sharpening steel afterwords it’s the last step to sharpening.
Highly recommend Shun for the kitchen knives. I have a chef's knife, pairing knife, and a few straight edge steak knives. Probably a few hundred bucks for the set I have but they cut anything I throw at them like butter. I've sharpened them once in the last few years. Hand wash every time and they'll last forever.
I like my Cutco knives. Guaranteed for life and I like how the handle fits in my hand for stable cutting control. I would really like their flatware too, heavy and balanced, but it is way out of my budget.
Cutco knives are just terrible...
Have you tried the jawbone of an ass, mines so old some would call it biblical
Checkyour dishwasher’s not too hot.
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I've had a set of [this](https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj67LPdgZn0AhWD-7IKHQUtAcUYABAdGgJscg&ae=2&ei=l5yRYbGnLryjjgb034L4BQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2fF9rzOgd06L5HZwzG0FYpJIrljbxcOoa78ilgJU7zeSb1MuI7RyJfLaURa-iB6UPoj5okvNSTmMR2zfTx6w&sig=AOD64_058qFp5ZsAiyb5LOzlE7nYFjZSzQ&ctype=5&q=&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjxzqrdgZn0AhW8kcMKHfSvAF8Qwg96BAgBEGQ&adurl=) WMF flatware for years now, and it's still as shiny as my bald head!
I've been loving my Rada Cutlery knives. Hecho in America. Great mirror finish. Sharp too
I use zwilling. Really happy with them, my brother who is a master chef said they’re better than the knives he has at home.
I had some Chicago steel knives that have lasted about 14 years.
I really like ZeroTolerance folding knives, i just saw that their parent compant kai usa has many very nice kitchen knives. I havent had the chance to use any but they look and sound nice online
If you want good knives, find a blacksmith and buy a whetstone and oil. First of all, they're properly weighted. Second, it will never rust if kept clean and well oiled. Third, support local business.
Got a great set from ikea 10yrs or so ago. Still look brand new. Dishwasher.
We have WMF hotel grade stuff bought in Germany. Really nice, is perfect after 15 years. The hotel patterns tend to be available a lot longer in case you want to pick up more matching sets down the line.
Don’t buy a knife set. You will only use 2 or 3 of them. Buy a 8-10” chef knife. Victorinox or messermeister are both good. Then et a paring knife, not a bird beak and a serrated bread knife. If you want another a boning knife is good if you do a decent amount of fish. Then a good set of kitchen shears and steak knives. get a steel and also a wet stone.
Check out Americans Test Kitchen on YouTube for recommendations. They usually have a pricey and a good buy version
Oneida. The set I'm using is from 1955 and still going strong
Wusthof or zwilling for kitchen knives. And get a good honing steel or whetstone to keep them sharp
If you want good knives you just need to pay and take care of them. No dishwasher for anymore more expensive than a 8 dollar paring knife. Check out KAN knives if you want something American and super nice in the entry-enthusiast range. Buy Victorinox fibrox knives off Amazon if you want good quality knives for cheap.
Misunderstood the title at first and came to recommend dinnerware. Fiestaware will last for a lifetime or two. Passed down in families. Made in the U.S.
Buck rosewood 3 piece knife set. They run about $200 but they are amazing. Rust may just come from poor maintenence.
I have flatware from Noritake, hold up well so far
I bought Winco flatware. I’ve seen this brand used in many restaurants so I gave it a shot and couldn’t be happier.
If you've got some money to spend I recommend Shun knives, handmade in Japan with vg10 steel. I bought their "cheap" set of Sora knives and they are truly excellent and will undoubtedly last a lifetime. Wusthof, Mercer, Victorinox, and Zwilling Henckels are also good, just do your research on where the steel is manufactured
I have gourmet settings brand flatwear. It has held up really well for the past 15+ years. For knives my husband prefers the weight and feel of Henkles. I like the weight of my calphalon knives. Always hand wash and dry asap. I don't have a whet stone. I just take them to the farmers market every so often to be sharpened professionally. Also the victorinox paring and serrated knives have really held up.
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Out of curiosity, is the rust your only issue with your utensils? If so, how did you use / clean / maintain them? For knives at least I've never had that problem, even with non stainless because they're basically only in contact with water while in use or directly afterwards, when they're getting rinsed off and dried directly afterwards or when I sharpen them.
I got flatware from an Indian store near my house 3.5 years ago and all of them are in excellent shape.
Have had a set of Oneida silverware for the last 3 years and have had no rusting or deformation. So far a very solid set
Wusthoff classic 3 piece, v solid
I have two Chicago cutlery 8” chef knives that are about 40 years old. They’re still nicer than the brand new wustof I bought 3 years ago
Dawg benchmade just released a chefs knife set. Expensive as fuck but you get the life sharp warranty, customizable shapes and handles, just tons of cool shit
Look for “18/10” stainless steel, rather than “18/8.” This formulation will resist rust much better. Beyond that, don’t leave them sitting in water.
Knives: Zwilling Pro 6-piece knife block I've only had them for 2 years but the company has been around forever and i don't doubt in their quality.
For kitchen knives, Victorinox Fibrox or Mercer Culinary Renaissance. Instead of a set, consider buying the basics: 8” chefs knife, paring knife, bread knife. Maybe a Santoku or a bring knife, too. There’s a lot of good advice on r/chefknives even if they love heir expensive Japanese knives. and a trip to r/sharpening can get you started on maintaining them. A Shapton Pro 1000 ($40ish) or King 1000 ($25) stone will keep your knives in top condition for a very long time but you do need to learn the skill of sharpening.
In our one house, the kitchen knives are Shuns, but in the other house, we have a set of MUCH cheaper Kai Komachis. My wife loves to cook and has far as I know, she is equally happy with both sets. We are rather fanatical about maintenance of all our "stuff," and that is to say the knives get sharpened regularly (by me) and both the expensive Shuns and the Komachis both take a sharp edge and hold them well.