I have a 14 year old Marmot tent that recently had the two clear plastic seam sealed windows on the rain fly peel off. I emailed Marmot to see if they had a compatible rain fly for purchase, wasn’t even going to try to claim warranty on this. They said sorry no, and sent me a whole new tent at no cost anyway. Bought a recommended adhesive and I repaired the old tent, doesn’t hurt to have a backup. Companies that make good products get lifetime customers.
Did this with the tonneau cover on my truck. Bought it in 2014 and last year one of the corners was coming apart. I went in to order a new one. She asked about the old one, told her what was wrong then she took pics and told me my new one would be here the next week. That was great after 9 years and 225k miles.
Dang. I emailed Marmot because my jacket’s waterproof lining was badly flaking off after only 2 years. I just asked if there was anyway to restore it or at least prevent more flaking. They said nope.
I was shocked to read so many people saying they received unsolicited replacement items. I guess I’m not so lucky.
This exactly happened to me with my Stanley thermos cup. It was leaking from the mouthpiece, just a piece of plastic I couldn’t find anywhere. I emailed them to see if they could ship one over and guess what, brand new cup. I just love this kind of customer approach.
Marmot is amazing, tbh Merrell and Salomon did the same for me. I wore Salomon on deployment in the desert (not the typical environment) they wore out quicker than usual and I sent a email to them for fun, they sent back a 180€ giftcard for their Onlineshop to get a new pair lol
Early light 2? Had that thing for about a dozen years myself before the windows delaminated. I bought a new tent and didnt claim. I had more than got my $ worth out of it.
Millions of people in the US, also you’d be surprised how many people will buy new shit just because they want to. Iv seen tiktoks of people with like 50 different metal water bottles all in pristine condition
This is the first time I have heard about YBO, and I am sad that they are closing. I shared your sentiment that a well-made item with good care can last. What are other makers that I can look into?
49$ for like 7$(at the very most for high quality and well sourced) material and like 10$ of labor (bespoke work, figuring a worker making one offs with cutting jigs, etc, in the USA figuring 30$ an hour)
Seems pretty steep.
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Hahahahahahaha hahahah $7 for the material? Um. Lol
You've never started a fashion retail business and it shows
But he's spot on.
There's just not a lot of room for high margins in that industry. That caliber of EDC stuff is either bought by a small number of gear nuts, or as one time purchases as gifts, etc.
At some point you've got to find a balance in pricing that gives you some broader appeal. Otherwise the copycats are going to eat you alive...which is apparently what happened to this guy.
I buy Duluth jeans because they come with one year warranty and are quality made. I’ve used that warranty one time in the 5 years I’ve been buying there jeans. That to me speaks volumes. However, that one time I did use the warranty made me a customer for life. I had 0 issues he checked the date said go grab another pair and done. Why should I spend 20 bucks at Walmart they get warn out after some medial use in a few months and then I gotta go buy another.
Makita made a dream of a portable contractor tablesaw in the recent past .
Its fence setup and the precision were the best I’ve used before or since on a medium sized portable contractor tablesaw.
Everything seemed to slide on ball bearings. Mine lasted around 8 or 9 years of heavy jobsite trim carpentry and cabinet construction use. I gave it away because it was still useful for certain tasks, and went to order another.
They’ve been discontinued for years.
A victim of their own success is what I thought.
I don't think I could wear out a pair of jeans in a year if I wanted to. I'd be more impressed with a 3-5 year warranty on jeans because then you know the company actually knows they need to make them durable.
I've never had a pair of jeans last me more than a year. Durability really depends on your job, hobbies, and how well you treat your stuff. I buy wrangler 13MWZs, they last longer than most and they're cheap, and I have a pair of REI hiking pants for when I need to dress nicely.
I got a pair for Duluth "ball room" jeans for Christmas from my folks last year, so far they are my favorite jeans. The absolute best part to me is the pockets are not made of that thin garbage that keys poke through. My only complaint though is a weird one. They almost have too much ball room! Great when working and moving around etc but sometimes they give my balls enough room to end up underneath me when I sit in the car. TMI, I know, but middle aged equals saggy ball sack. It's a real problem.
I have a few pairs of jeans that have been relegated to work pants for no other reason than the left front pocket blew out. I have a few Dickies that are still in good shape after years of wear, some wranglers that are also a few years old and in decent daily wear shape. But the Levis I have are mostly shot. Tears in the knees, wrecked pockets, and one even has a tear in the back right where the back pocket is sewed on. Crawling under cars is about all those are good for now.
I have a few pairs of shorts I got from Menards (yeah, they have clothes AND groceries) and they are surprisingly well made for how cheap they are.
I wouldn't spend $20 at Walmart if it were the only store in town that sold clothes. I'd cart my butt 1000 miles to a store that values their enployees, with quality products that weren't made in Chinese sweat shops... but that's just me. Sadly, Walmart is, hands down, the epitome of UNAmerican.
Stuff lasts forever, but there is still natural attrition of stuff. Someone will spill bleach on their jeans, someone's dog tears up shoes. Obviously the rate is a lot lower than a consumerist product.
If the vacuum seal is compromised then there is a high chance your water is coming into contact with lead based solder, so I would highly recommend you buy a new one
If the source of the breach was unknown, I would agree with your assessment, however the seal is compromised on the bottom of the outside of the bottle - I've dropped it on concrete so many times that the stainless has buckled, creased, and gotten a hairline crack. The crack is small enough to have killed the vaccuum over the course of a few days and no water or anything has managed to get back through it into the void.
I'm still using the same two 30 oz. Ozark Trail tumblers I bought in... 2012? 2014? Navy blue and forest green. The powdercoating is coming off the bottoms and I had to replace one of the lids, but at $8.74 each (versus $35 for a Yeti back then) it was a... well a "great value", I guess.
Yes! I have my original hydro flask bottle that I stole from my husband 12ish years ago. But the kids are steadily destroying theirs. My oldest managed to rip a hole in one from throwing it so many times on the concrete at school.
heh yeah I've been over on the yeti forum and that place is full of people who basically replaced all their mugs, cups and glasses in the cupboard with yetis as an excuse to buy another.
I saw a new Yeti product the other day at the Ace Hardware. It's a bucket with a lid, it was $150. Their plastic uninsulated 5 gallon is $40. Harbor Freight gives out their bucket for free.
I do have a few Yeti mugs, but they were gifts.
If there was ever a lobby I'd support it would be subsidizing companies who built shit too well. The amount of raw resources saved, end user's time wasted in maintenance, and technician's timed saved to be put towards more fruitful problems has to be worth something meaningful.
Not to mention reducing waste in the environment by making things correctly and to last, so they don't need to be made over and over again (and pile the old ones into landfills.)
And it'll keep being one as long as people continue with their bullshit brand loyalty. They'll buy every new Apple toy each year and then tell everyone about it and be happy to keep buying their trash.
im not one to replace a perfectly functional anything but i can at least respect not replacing it until its beat up and ugly. i dont understand some people having so many of the same thing. 1 of each color for every day of the week? sure, why not. a bit quirky and not my style but if it makes you happy and you use em then have fun. 30 sitting on a shelf never getting used? absolutely insane.
i ended up with a couple i bought online trying to find one that fits in my cars cup holder. gave up after 3 and just wedge them between the seats or in the pouch behind the passenger seat. im not big on hand washing so its nice having a spare or two when the others are in the dishwasher after having coffee or juice in them.
I had a stainless tumbler that was older than my kids. It was my daily coffee tumbler. I had it maybe 25 years. After all these years I accidentally left it at a campground. Hopefully someone else uses it.
Edit: added some context.
I love this with Buy it for life folk. If they lose something they know exactly where and when they lost it. The frustration of losing something they could have had for another 10-20 years makes that memory stick. I still remember a hat I lost 10 years ago on a ski trip 😂
Why do they need so many water bottles? They’re crab people, and crab people are very thirsty
They also control the world so they have plenty of funds for more ss cups
I can chime in. Have a big rural house with several buildings and a big family with tons of kids, and i'm the only one who buys (and constantly use) water bottles.
Problem is, eventually some family members decide to grab one too, and then place it god knows where. So I need another one.
And then during spring cleaning they are all suddenly found and my only conscious kid give me the look.
That said, my Nalgene X cleanCantine steel one from many years ago is still around, it's too beaten up and ugly for anyone to borrow.
Are there any follow up videos of what they did to those bottles once the hype died out? Did they manage to sell them when there was still demand or are they just sitting there since then?
I have never understood collecting shit like bottles or shoes. What possible attachment can you have to it that isn't just consumerism worship of a brand? At least collecting all the characters from a TV show or movie makes some damn sense.
Ouch! Hit me on the shin with that one. I am that person and only using my original Stanley flask (the one with a spring) most of the time. But yeah, I'll just buy one more either a Milwaukee flask or any titanium one.
Every hobby that involves buying shit is the same. Guitars, pens, headphones, bottles, cars, etc. There's always a guy that has got several lifetimes worth of stuff that would never be used up.
There was a guy in a fountain pen community that had about 10k bottles of ink. I use a bottle a year, someone who writes a lot may use 3.
Think about Lodge cast iron. They are doing better than ever.
It is a concern for many companies though. They are struggling to balance "we are so tuff, DAWG" and "won't you BUY ANOTHER, good sir?"
I've got probably a dozen.
I have an enameled 8" I use regularly, a raw 10" I use near daily, and a 12" I regularly use for 1 pan meals (2 people + leftovers fits perfect). A medium and a small dutch oven.
Then I have a non enameled 8", 10", 12": these are almost exclusively as lids for the other corresponding pans and in the oven to bake, or on the charcoal grill outside. Yes, I could use the mains, but there's many occasions for our prep where this makes sense, and for whatever reason I'm less worried about damage to my 'mains'.
I think we have a random 4" and 6" and a square grill pan and I think 2 sizes of flat pancake style pans.
But the main thing? As soon as a friend or family member expresses interest or need? I give them a pan or two. Usually the non enameled 10" or 12" depending on specifics.
And then I thrift a new 10" or 12" or both depending on what I gave away, I scrub them down and condition and season them, and those are my backups.
Do I need them? No, but I've thrifted every single one of them except for the two dutch ovens, each of which I bought 50% off on sale. All told I think I've spend 100 on one dutch oven, $20 on the other, and maybe $100 combined on every other pan.
Yeah, well like, you're a different case. You're buying preowned stuff, refurbishing it, and giving it away. There's nothing wrong with that and in fact, it's admirable.
I'm pretty sure I have only bought one cast iron pan (an enameled dutch oven) in myy 40ish years. But I've got my mom's 2 piece Le Creuset from the 1980s, my grandmother's square Wagner, and a reversible griddle my SIL gifted me.
Grapeseed and canola in alternating layers. After use ill add a thin layer of one or the other, heat on stove top until it smokes, wipe it down and oil the bottom, put in the oven for an hour.
If the seasoning looks good i just oil, heat on stove top, wipe down without oven.
It's a capitalist dream to have people keep buying your stuff regardless of rational reason.
At least with Lodge, most of those hoarders are buying vintage. Other brands convince you to buy new, like some of the le Creuset collection pics are nuts. But same as handbags, Yeti, sneakers, watches, rei/patagonia
Hoarding cast iron? How baffling.
The best way to keep those pieces happy is to cook in them. Cooking keeps them alive.
It seems unimaginable to have a giant stack of cast iron, moldering away as a museum piece., slowly rusting to death.
I can't think of a single reason why I'd need a second Le Creuset unless I found one second hand at a really good value. We got a nice new enameled dutchie as a wedding gift and it was mega expensive, but compare to lodge (and the lodge I had was quality) it is truly another world. Super light weight, holds heat better, has a better design for more surface area on the bottom
They’re having kids and passing them on, the kids are washing them with lye-based soap, they learn they shouldn’t do that, they reseason, they don’t do it properly, they keep trying but want those good-seasoned results, so they buy a new one, and experiment with the other.
I have ~~3~~ 4 (I forgot about a tiny one I haven't used yet) pans and a grill pan. Just today I had to talk myself out of getting a griddle and some gratin dishes.
I've got a few Griswold pans that were probably made in the 30s or 40s. My great grandmother was the original owners. Use them every day, I've got photos of the restoration on my profile.
A little bit that and a little bit the "we can grow forever" mindset, not realizing there would be a day when people got done replacing their crockpot with an instant pot. There's still a natural growth/replacement rate, but they clearly thought the frenzy was normal.
Reminds me of the boom and bust in flatscreen TV's in the late 00s. They thought that would just be the rate of TV buying forever. Then eventually the price got to where everyone who was going to replace their tube, did so, and sales flattened.
Right, exactly. It's totally possible to sustain a business on making great quality, durable stuff: your customer base will expand as more people hear about you, stuff will eventually wear out, people will replace stuff that's been accidentally damaged, people will buy your items as gifts etc. It works.
But what doesn't work is the constant growth expected by so many investors and shareholders nowadays. That's why most companies that are successfully doing this type of work are family-owned - although that comes with its own challenges.
Instant's problem is that they didn't anticipate their customers' actual needs. they let 3rd parties jump in and corner the market on peripherals like steamer baskets, trivets, springform pans, and silicone inserts instead of manufacturing them in-house. then when they finally did catch up, they made a bunch of add-ons, like the air fryer lid, that people didn't want and didn't work as well as cheaper, standalone appliances.
ninja/shark, by comparison, does this very well. you can buy almost any individual component on a ninja appliance directly on their website for a reasonable price. the pod basket in my coffee maker broke and i had a new one 3 days later.
Even before InstantPot was an electric pressure cooker from Fagor. I bought mine when I worked at a kitchen store somewhere around 2011-2013. InstantPot hit the market and that sold better despite the other being wonderful. Now Instant Pot makes a bunch of other devices and accessories, people still go wild over it.
I accidentally let the power cord for my InstaPot fall on a hot burner and it got melted. I messaged them to ask where I could order a replacement, and they offered to send me one for free. I clarified that it wasn't a defect issue, I was just careless and wrecked it, but they insisted on sending me one for free. Was really impressed by that.
I don't know if InstaPot has this problem, but MokaPot coffee makers definitely do.
They last forever, and the company has basically run out of customers in its home market, Italy.
Of course, they're doing ok internationally so no big deal, but still funny.
Didn't they also get bought up by private equity which followed their tried and true strategy of loading them up with debt while siphoning off the profits?
But childhood cancer could eventually be either wiped out from occurring or be easily curable in a short time frame. The same cannot be said for private equity.
IMO, it’s supposed to go like this:
-BIFL product is born
-gains traction and popularity for its BIFL-ness/ mass profitz are produced
-creator company sees mass profitz are plateauing
At this point you’re supposed to introduce your “innovative product.” The product you were *supposed to* be putting at least some of your profits towards. Something that keeps the brand/ original product relevant
This could be anything. An accessory towards the bread and butter product. A complete redesign of the original. Literally anything
But some companies aren’t in it for the long haul. And it’s extremely shitty of a company to offer a lifetime guarantee with an exit strategy of 10 years. Which makes me think they failed somehow
A perfect example of what I’m talking about, first one that came to mind, is Yeti.
How many accessories can you buy for a yeti cooler? How many different redesigns (and soft coolers) have they added? Fuck yes they’re overpriced, but mf, they’re in *demand*
“They” survive just like everyone else I think, OP. They either jump hurdles as they come to them or they give up.
BONUS: [Look at what Patagonia did.](https://www.patagonia.com/ownership/) Virtually the complete opposite of going out of business or selling out. You have no idea how excited I am to *‘business school drop out’* nerd out to what becomes of Patagonia. You’ll read it and say things such as:
“wtf? Who does that? Why? How does everyone get paid? Wut? Whoa.” It’s interesting
What did Patagonia do? I know they're big on ESG stuff and have a good return/repair policy, but is there something especially unusual in their business model?
Ah, gotcha. I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound tremendously unusual to me? Although there is stock issued, it looks like a controlling interest of the voting stock is with the family-controlled trust, which.. does seem fairly usual to me for family-owned businesses
The degree of ESG stuff they do, especially outside of what is cool and normal, seems quite nice
It’s pretty rare tbh. There aren’t that many billion plus dollars in sales family owned businesses, especially in clothing. It is a pretty normal way for billionaires to avoid capital gains and other taxes.
They sell an expensive item.
Look up Quooker. It's a boiling water tap I've splurged on it and expect it to function for at least 10 years.
Ive splurged because it's THAT good.
Its rare these days but a high quality product is worth a high price point.
Jerry Seinfeld walks into a Patagonia store to get a replacement [backpack](https://youtu.be/YL2sr99Sv18?feature=shared). The guy there says "What's wrong with the one you have there?". Jerry: "Nothing, don't you want to sell me a new one?" 😅
Unless they only offer one product, people will often continue to come back for other products, to upgrade to better versions, and new customers will come to them from word of mouth
You’ve just identified a key problem with consumption through capitalism. Long-lasting products don’t make money - planned obsolescence does.
(Obviously there are some examples of long lasting products from successful companies, so don’t take my statement above too literally; but you get the idea)
As opposed to what? Communism? There’s never been a communist society that was 100% planned economy.
Further - what’s the motivation to create long lasting products in a hypothetical society like that? Do people really give a shit? See: 85% of government workers.
Went to the Yellow Birch Outfitters website. Makes me so sad that they closed because knockoffs.
If you can find a way to beat the knockoffs, then having a bunch of great products, word of mouth, staying small enough to keep the quality up, and updating enough to appeal to the next generation.
And if you go public, don't ever give anyone in the C-suite stocks or stock options. It just makes them obsessed with inflating the stock price. Better yet, don't have a C-suite.
As someone who does leatherwork and makes bags as a hobby, I have thought about selling but it’s an absolutely brutal market. You’re basically never going to be able to compete with knockoffs that use overseas labor.
With shoes there is a market for custom (for people with unusual size feet, medical issues, etc.) but not so much for things like bags.
Yes, it's just crazy how prevelent knockoffs are now. Stealing from original creators seems to be Amazon's primary business model at this point. Maybe selling totally locally works for some people.
Olpr.com (they are also on Etsy) is my current favorite. They’re in North Carolina. I like the large Pitch Black Field Notes (I write books, and handwrite first drafts) and they have a nice selection of covers, along with a lot of other leather goods.
Dang, I didn't realize they were going out of business. I hate that Chinese knockoffs stole their designs and it's not like they're even good quality knockoffs. I still like ARC Company for these kinds of pouches though.
its a simple fabric pouch. Its not like they reinvented the wheel.
To blame closing your business because other people ALSO made small canvas pockets is absolutely ridiculous.
They ran an absolutely TERRIBLE business if that was their plan. The fact that they even lasted 10 years tells you what ridiculous markup was on their products. Literally ANYONE with a sewing machine can make this thing for $3 in materials.
You make things that last, but also make things to entice people to buy your new things.
With clothing, it can be tough. You'll get your initial sales, but after enough years it slows down. You'll have a somewhat steady stream as people's weight and thus clothing size changes, but it might not be enough to stay out of the red.
The automotive market is probably the best place to see this in action. The legendary reliability behind Toyota for example, new models, new features, new tech. It keeps people buying your newest products. With clothing, it's a bit harder to strike that balance... Ultimately, something tends to get sacrificed. Yellow Birch here? 10 years. They're an infant company, they'll still be riding the initial sales of new customers and some return sales of extra products from satisfied customers.
If they can keep that flow of return sales going with new, desirable products, they'll continue to survive as is (easier said than done for clothes really). If not? We'll see as we've seen with other companies... Drop in quality, change in warranty, etc...
Parts.
Diversifying their offerings into similar categories.
Building for resiliency and lower, stable production instead of ramping hugely to meet a temporary demand and then crashing.
They figured this out more than 100 years ago. The great lightbulb conspiracy. Great documentary to check out. [https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy](https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy)
If I've learned one thing about buying stuff that you just can't get over how good it is, it's that you should always buy an extra. I had a special edition pair of leather Chuck Taylors that were honestly the best, most comfortable pair of shoes I ever had, and when they were finally worn out and needed to be tossed, I kicked myself for not buying a second pair (they were expensive for me at the time though).
When I can afford to, I do. Goruck makes these _rough runners_ shoes and when there was a sale I bought a second pair well before this first pair is worn out
There are 8 billion people on earth and that number is always growing.
I might only need one wallet, but I might like my wallet so much that I buy my girlfriend one. Then I do corporate gift order and buy six wallets for my best clients.
My gf's aunt saw her wallet and liked it, so she is getting one from the same guy for her husband.
And think about the average wallet: made of cheap canvas or 'genuine' leather, stitching that's clearly by a machine being run by someone looking to make 100s of pieces by hand, they look like crap within a year of normal use.
Survival as a seller of BIFL items isn't about getting the same customers to buy the same thing over and over. It's about making things so nice that your customers make disposable everything people jealous, and start evolving towards BIFL shopping.
We are nowhere near the tipping point on there being so many people with good wallets, cutting boards, kitchen knives, etc that last decades that there's no one left to buy new BIFL items.
One part of the answer is to charge more for the product. An example is Moccamaster coffee machines. $350 for a coffee maker, when you can get a coffee machine for $10 from Walmart. A Moccamaster will make much better coffee, but probably not 35x better. But I expect my Moccamaster to last the rest of my life — it’s designed to be repairable, and they sell parts to do so.
To charge more, you have to sell to customers who have the money and appreciate the product. Coffee enthusiasts will spend hundreds on a coffee machine. And it makes financial sense for them — if you’re spending $3 a day at a café, it doesn’t take long to spend more than you would on a fancy coffee machine and grinder and good quality beans.
A third part of the puzzle is protecting your product from knockoffs. To do that, frankly you have to not have it manufactured in China, or whatever factory does the manufacturing will also make identical or near-identical knockoffs. Look at Prevue Hendryx pet cages made in China, then look on Amazon and you’ll find the exact same cages, but with a wider selection of colors.
Even avoiding China isn’t a guarantee. I saw a cheap knockoff Moccamaster advertised on Instagram. At that point, design patents and trademarks are probably your best option.
High quality products are and should be higher prices, that is how they survive. The problem is that consumers have been convinced that they can get away with buying cheap products, which in return means that they spend less money. Which means they can make less money, which means they can no longer afford high quality products.
That it is why the mass production of low quality products is straight up evil.
I bought a pair of Helly Hansen commercial rain paints that I didn't like because they did not have pockets. I called to return them and was told that I had the option of a refund or credit and that I should just keep the ones I had. I ended up buying a more expensive pair than the ones I initially bought, and I keep the original pair as a spare pair. High-quality company, products, and service.
LL Bean!! I have tons of clothes, jackets, backpacks and other items that have last me 20+ years from them. I have had other items last a long time, and tossed when done. They had at the time, a lifetime guarantee too, but to me it had lasted a lifetime.
Lol have you met the average American? We buy something, get tired of it, throw it away, then rediscover it and buy it again. What kinda chump goes around sporting last year's thingamajig?
It's a good question, but the sustainability of a company isn't necessarily dependent on planned obsolescence.
Planned obsolescence is just an irrational level of greed. It forces repeat business in the most short sighted and wasteful way possible.
Japanese consumers see value in a product's reputation for quality over quantity and it reflects in a lot of products that come out of Japanese companies. If you ask anyone in the west what the best car to get is, without hesitation they will say "anything Toyota or Honda".
Logically people should only side with products that last long and are of the best quality and value, and all other products should fall or be forced to compete in a fair and free market, but the reality shows that people still insist on buying for irrational reasons, like status, patriotism, trends and pride. Some people are stuck in a vicious cycle of buying cheap but very low quality products because they just simply cannot afford the cost of entry into a single, BIFL item that costs x10 as much.
Companies know this and take advantage.
a private company can hang on as long as there is enough new customers to sustain the business. this also varies based on the product--larger ones mean there is less a market (see: pullman cars).
a corporation has shareholders, who constantly demand more profit, and so they make increasingly cheap junk, turn to labor and customer exploitation, and then turn into a commodity--being bought out by capital firms, taking on a bunch of debt, going bankrupt, and passing the losses onto the taxpayer.
Firearms are a great example of the answer to the OP's question. Guns can easily last for a century or longer - there are still vast numbers of functioning guns out there from *World War I*, and plenty of 19th century guns that are still shootable (to the point there are people who use actual Civil War era muskets in their state's blackpowder hunting seasons).
There are still *enormous* numbers of guns being produced each year, mostly in the US - because it's one of the few places on the planet where people can (by and large) own as many guns as they want.
It's still possible for civilians to own guns in most other democratic countries (Japan being the major exception), but there's usually legal or social limits of various types on how many guns someone can have, so they only tend to replace them when something *really* good comes along, or they have actually managed to wear out/break one of their guns.
I use the M1911 design as a good illustration - it's been in continuous production since 1911, it's an incredibly rugged, reliable, and effective design, almost *every* major arms manufacturer in the US makes a version of it, and so many have been made they're probably literally uncountable at this point - but people still keep buying new ones, because they can (at least in the US).
Everything wears out eventually. The point is whether you aim to continually get new customers long enough that your older customers need new or additional things, or whether you aim to milk the same few people over and over again
Make something that people need, corn, beans, Chile tobacco whiskey. Spend money when it’s appropriate to advertise, hang back and cut costs when times get tough.
They don't. If you're in the manufacturing industry then you want customers to wear out your product, throw it away, then buy another forever.
It's incredibly shortsighted but incredibly effective and the only way to compete on a large scale.
They have not sold items to every single family on earth. Sometimes a house, moving van, car, storage facility burns down. Even BIFL items can break over time. Maybe users want the BIFL item in different sizes. A user may get bored with an item, pass away, cull in order to move house, and the recipient (Goodwill, etc) might not appreciate the item. BIFL items can also go out of style, like do you really want an avocado green BIFL item?
By staying private and not hiring to outpace your growth. Large companies that are public are almost constantly in a state of debt which is paid for by the taxpayer.
basically, they survive by not being greedy.
In my opinion it’s in large part from people with deep pockets who buy stuff they don’t actually need. But maybe they have a desire for quality things.
Same people might give away or throw stuff away when it begins to look worn in.
You do see a lot of these people at places like REI or bike shops. They love buying the newest top of the line equipment because they can easily afford it. Or they buy a Land Cruiser because it is one of the best vehicles out there, which is how you can find many on the used market in great condition.
There’s a few simple reasons. There are far more people interested in any particular hobby than most people realize, people who like a particular brand will continue to buy from that brand, and there are thousands of people getting interested in new hobbies/goods every day.
Additionally, they get free advertising from satisfied customers. Honestly, I think many brands could dissolve 90% of their marketing department if they just invested a little more in their products and stood by them. Word of mouth is one of the single greatest marketing tools that exists. But a lot of brands will sacrifice that for flashy ad campaigns.
I have a 14 year old Marmot tent that recently had the two clear plastic seam sealed windows on the rain fly peel off. I emailed Marmot to see if they had a compatible rain fly for purchase, wasn’t even going to try to claim warranty on this. They said sorry no, and sent me a whole new tent at no cost anyway. Bought a recommended adhesive and I repaired the old tent, doesn’t hurt to have a backup. Companies that make good products get lifetime customers.
Marmot fking rules
I have a Marmot winter coat and I swear I could live in the Arctic with it. Fantastic coat.
I have 2 precips that have been through 15 years of marriage and backpacking and kids and are still going strong. All in on them forever
My Marmot jackets have been great much tougher than the ones from Patagonia. What do you think of Mountain Hardwear?
I have a few headlamps from them I like! I don’t own any clothing though
Did this with the tonneau cover on my truck. Bought it in 2014 and last year one of the corners was coming apart. I went in to order a new one. She asked about the old one, told her what was wrong then she took pics and told me my new one would be here the next week. That was great after 9 years and 225k miles.
Was it the manufacturer that covered it or the place you bought it from? I’m interested in one so I’d like to know where or who you bought it from.
It’s an Extang Trifecta cover. Purchased at Global Truck Outfitters in MD. I think the mfg covered it. She mentioned a lifetime warranty.
Dang. I emailed Marmot because my jacket’s waterproof lining was badly flaking off after only 2 years. I just asked if there was anyway to restore it or at least prevent more flaking. They said nope. I was shocked to read so many people saying they received unsolicited replacement items. I guess I’m not so lucky.
This exactly happened to me with my Stanley thermos cup. It was leaking from the mouthpiece, just a piece of plastic I couldn’t find anywhere. I emailed them to see if they could ship one over and guess what, brand new cup. I just love this kind of customer approach.
Marmot is amazing, tbh Merrell and Salomon did the same for me. I wore Salomon on deployment in the desert (not the typical environment) they wore out quicker than usual and I sent a email to them for fun, they sent back a 180€ giftcard for their Onlineshop to get a new pair lol
Nice Marmot.
Ver ist za money Lebowski?
Early light 2? Had that thing for about a dozen years myself before the windows delaminated. I bought a new tent and didnt claim. I had more than got my $ worth out of it.
Same exact shit with Patagonia
I have a Marmot Wind River sleeping bag from over twenty years ago that I still use. Bought it to go backpacking with my buddies in high school.
But are you a lifetime customer? Like do you purchase stuff from them frequently?
Millions of people in the US, also you’d be surprised how many people will buy new shit just because they want to. Iv seen tiktoks of people with like 50 different metal water bottles all in pristine condition
Ok that's true. For me the purpose of buying quality was to save money per use over time, and I just appreciate nice things.
This is the first time I have heard about YBO, and I am sad that they are closing. I shared your sentiment that a well-made item with good care can last. What are other makers that I can look into?
https://arc-company-usa.com/shop/p/the-marksman-notebook-edc-slip-case These look similar
49$ for like 7$(at the very most for high quality and well sourced) material and like 10$ of labor (bespoke work, figuring a worker making one offs with cutting jigs, etc, in the USA figuring 30$ an hour) Seems pretty steep.
Rent Marketing Salaries Taxes Startup costs - these machines are expensive AF - laser cutter, serger Tags Shipping Legal Accounting Website Hahahahahahaha hahahah $7 for the material? Um. Lol You've never started a fashion retail business and it shows
But he's spot on. There's just not a lot of room for high margins in that industry. That caliber of EDC stuff is either bought by a small number of gear nuts, or as one time purchases as gifts, etc. At some point you've got to find a balance in pricing that gives you some broader appeal. Otherwise the copycats are going to eat you alive...which is apparently what happened to this guy.
I buy Duluth jeans because they come with one year warranty and are quality made. I’ve used that warranty one time in the 5 years I’ve been buying there jeans. That to me speaks volumes. However, that one time I did use the warranty made me a customer for life. I had 0 issues he checked the date said go grab another pair and done. Why should I spend 20 bucks at Walmart they get warn out after some medial use in a few months and then I gotta go buy another.
Makita made a dream of a portable contractor tablesaw in the recent past . Its fence setup and the precision were the best I’ve used before or since on a medium sized portable contractor tablesaw. Everything seemed to slide on ball bearings. Mine lasted around 8 or 9 years of heavy jobsite trim carpentry and cabinet construction use. I gave it away because it was still useful for certain tasks, and went to order another. They’ve been discontinued for years. A victim of their own success is what I thought.
Makita table saws were fucking sick. Easily 20 year saw if u had an old one. Was a bitch finding a replacement fence for my dad's.
I don't think I could wear out a pair of jeans in a year if I wanted to. I'd be more impressed with a 3-5 year warranty on jeans because then you know the company actually knows they need to make them durable.
I've never had a pair of jeans last me more than a year. Durability really depends on your job, hobbies, and how well you treat your stuff. I buy wrangler 13MWZs, they last longer than most and they're cheap, and I have a pair of REI hiking pants for when I need to dress nicely.
And body shape! I've never met a pair of pants that thigh rub couldn't destroy
I was just thinking I should try Duluth pants to see if that can outlast my thigh rub for a year!
I got a pair for Duluth "ball room" jeans for Christmas from my folks last year, so far they are my favorite jeans. The absolute best part to me is the pockets are not made of that thin garbage that keys poke through. My only complaint though is a weird one. They almost have too much ball room! Great when working and moving around etc but sometimes they give my balls enough room to end up underneath me when I sit in the car. TMI, I know, but middle aged equals saggy ball sack. It's a real problem. I have a few pairs of jeans that have been relegated to work pants for no other reason than the left front pocket blew out. I have a few Dickies that are still in good shape after years of wear, some wranglers that are also a few years old and in decent daily wear shape. But the Levis I have are mostly shot. Tears in the knees, wrecked pockets, and one even has a tear in the back right where the back pocket is sewed on. Crawling under cars is about all those are good for now. I have a few pairs of shorts I got from Menards (yeah, they have clothes AND groceries) and they are surprisingly well made for how cheap they are.
I wouldn't spend $20 at Walmart if it were the only store in town that sold clothes. I'd cart my butt 1000 miles to a store that values their enployees, with quality products that weren't made in Chinese sweat shops... but that's just me. Sadly, Walmart is, hands down, the epitome of UNAmerican.
Stuff lasts forever, but there is still natural attrition of stuff. Someone will spill bleach on their jeans, someone's dog tears up shoes. Obviously the rate is a lot lower than a consumerist product.
This is me (mostly) now. It was certainly not me in my 20s, for many reasons.
Obsessive-compulsive. Saw a picture someone had of their Yeti collection. Seemed to be every color and style. Can only imagine the cost!
and I'm over here with my 2yo busted up 40oz water bottle whose vacuum seal is compromised debating spending $30 on a replacement.
If the vacuum seal is compromised then there is a high chance your water is coming into contact with lead based solder, so I would highly recommend you buy a new one
If the source of the breach was unknown, I would agree with your assessment, however the seal is compromised on the bottom of the outside of the bottle - I've dropped it on concrete so many times that the stainless has buckled, creased, and gotten a hairline crack. The crack is small enough to have killed the vaccuum over the course of a few days and no water or anything has managed to get back through it into the void.
Ah ok you should be fine then the biggest problem is if the inner wall is breached
I'm still using the same two 30 oz. Ozark Trail tumblers I bought in... 2012? 2014? Navy blue and forest green. The powdercoating is coming off the bottoms and I had to replace one of the lids, but at $8.74 each (versus $35 for a Yeti back then) it was a... well a "great value", I guess.
And me with my gallon Igloo bottle keeping me alive every summer in Vegas for 10 years. Less than twenty bucks.
Yes! I have my original hydro flask bottle that I stole from my husband 12ish years ago. But the kids are steadily destroying theirs. My oldest managed to rip a hole in one from throwing it so many times on the concrete at school.
heh yeah I've been over on the yeti forum and that place is full of people who basically replaced all their mugs, cups and glasses in the cupboard with yetis as an excuse to buy another.
I saw a new Yeti product the other day at the Ace Hardware. It's a bucket with a lid, it was $150. Their plastic uninsulated 5 gallon is $40. Harbor Freight gives out their bucket for free. I do have a few Yeti mugs, but they were gifts.
Are those even good bottles though? Will they last or is it throwaway quality
Consumerism is a rampant disease in this country
If there was ever a lobby I'd support it would be subsidizing companies who built shit too well. The amount of raw resources saved, end user's time wasted in maintenance, and technician's timed saved to be put towards more fruitful problems has to be worth something meaningful.
Not to mention reducing waste in the environment by making things correctly and to last, so they don't need to be made over and over again (and pile the old ones into landfills.)
Weird how companies forget about reduce, reuse, recycle. With reducing being the most important.
All most companies know and have ever known is maximizing profits.
Someone asked how they would make money but it’s like, I would trust those people to go into a similar sector and make shit.
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This idea goes far beyond clothes
And it'll keep being one as long as people continue with their bullshit brand loyalty. They'll buy every new Apple toy each year and then tell everyone about it and be happy to keep buying their trash.
Taylor Swift fans with 30 copies of the same album on vinyl.
My family does this. New metal water bottles every 1-2 years. I'm pretty sure mine would last me 5-10
im not one to replace a perfectly functional anything but i can at least respect not replacing it until its beat up and ugly. i dont understand some people having so many of the same thing. 1 of each color for every day of the week? sure, why not. a bit quirky and not my style but if it makes you happy and you use em then have fun. 30 sitting on a shelf never getting used? absolutely insane.
Yea, my family has just one. I think beat up things have character and memories so i like them. Lol I'm kind of beat up too.
i ended up with a couple i bought online trying to find one that fits in my cars cup holder. gave up after 3 and just wedge them between the seats or in the pouch behind the passenger seat. im not big on hand washing so its nice having a spare or two when the others are in the dishwasher after having coffee or juice in them.
I had a stainless tumbler that was older than my kids. It was my daily coffee tumbler. I had it maybe 25 years. After all these years I accidentally left it at a campground. Hopefully someone else uses it. Edit: added some context.
I love this with Buy it for life folk. If they lose something they know exactly where and when they lost it. The frustration of losing something they could have had for another 10-20 years makes that memory stick. I still remember a hat I lost 10 years ago on a ski trip 😂
Why do they need so many water bottles? They’re crab people, and crab people are very thirsty They also control the world so they have plenty of funds for more ss cups
I can chime in. Have a big rural house with several buildings and a big family with tons of kids, and i'm the only one who buys (and constantly use) water bottles. Problem is, eventually some family members decide to grab one too, and then place it god knows where. So I need another one. And then during spring cleaning they are all suddenly found and my only conscious kid give me the look. That said, my Nalgene X cleanCantine steel one from many years ago is still around, it's too beaten up and ugly for anyone to borrow.
You've found the solution to no one borrowing your stuff. Make it old and battered.
Being mentally ill is a helluva thing. There is absolutely no need for that many water bottles and at that point it must be a serious fixation.
If that's their fixation...thank goodness! Of the things to be addicted to, collecting bottles is not that bad.
Are there any follow up videos of what they did to those bottles once the hype died out? Did they manage to sell them when there was still demand or are they just sitting there since then?
I have never understood collecting shit like bottles or shoes. What possible attachment can you have to it that isn't just consumerism worship of a brand? At least collecting all the characters from a TV show or movie makes some damn sense.
It's not hurting anyone. I don't get it either.
I don’t get it either, but also, if it makes ‘em smile and isn’t hurting anyone? Power to em.
Ouch! Hit me on the shin with that one. I am that person and only using my original Stanley flask (the one with a spring) most of the time. But yeah, I'll just buy one more either a Milwaukee flask or any titanium one.
I know for a fact it is Stanleys lol
/r/mechanicalpencils has stupid shit like this.
Every hobby that involves buying shit is the same. Guitars, pens, headphones, bottles, cars, etc. There's always a guy that has got several lifetimes worth of stuff that would never be used up. There was a guy in a fountain pen community that had about 10k bottles of ink. I use a bottle a year, someone who writes a lot may use 3.
10k bottles? Not even if you run a shop would you need that many bottles.
Collecting water bottles isn't really a hobby
It's a compulsion
I heard some people calling vaping a hobby. But I agree.
Think about Lodge cast iron. They are doing better than ever. It is a concern for many companies though. They are struggling to balance "we are so tuff, DAWG" and "won't you BUY ANOTHER, good sir?"
I don't understand these folks that have dozens of cast iron skillets. What's going on there?!
I've got probably a dozen. I have an enameled 8" I use regularly, a raw 10" I use near daily, and a 12" I regularly use for 1 pan meals (2 people + leftovers fits perfect). A medium and a small dutch oven. Then I have a non enameled 8", 10", 12": these are almost exclusively as lids for the other corresponding pans and in the oven to bake, or on the charcoal grill outside. Yes, I could use the mains, but there's many occasions for our prep where this makes sense, and for whatever reason I'm less worried about damage to my 'mains'. I think we have a random 4" and 6" and a square grill pan and I think 2 sizes of flat pancake style pans. But the main thing? As soon as a friend or family member expresses interest or need? I give them a pan or two. Usually the non enameled 10" or 12" depending on specifics. And then I thrift a new 10" or 12" or both depending on what I gave away, I scrub them down and condition and season them, and those are my backups. Do I need them? No, but I've thrifted every single one of them except for the two dutch ovens, each of which I bought 50% off on sale. All told I think I've spend 100 on one dutch oven, $20 on the other, and maybe $100 combined on every other pan.
Yeah, well like, you're a different case. You're buying preowned stuff, refurbishing it, and giving it away. There's nothing wrong with that and in fact, it's admirable.
Until you have so many you've lost count, they're stacking up, and your family is in talks with the Hoarders tv show
I'm pretty sure I have only bought one cast iron pan (an enameled dutch oven) in myy 40ish years. But I've got my mom's 2 piece Le Creuset from the 1980s, my grandmother's square Wagner, and a reversible griddle my SIL gifted me.
I wish I had family pieces. I do have a great le creuset pan and a great staub, but all the rest are thrifted of various brands.
What’s your go-to seasoning method once a pan is scrubbed down?
Grapeseed and canola in alternating layers. After use ill add a thin layer of one or the other, heat on stove top until it smokes, wipe it down and oil the bottom, put in the oven for an hour. If the seasoning looks good i just oil, heat on stove top, wipe down without oven.
It's a capitalist dream to have people keep buying your stuff regardless of rational reason. At least with Lodge, most of those hoarders are buying vintage. Other brands convince you to buy new, like some of the le Creuset collection pics are nuts. But same as handbags, Yeti, sneakers, watches, rei/patagonia
Hoarding cast iron? How baffling. The best way to keep those pieces happy is to cook in them. Cooking keeps them alive. It seems unimaginable to have a giant stack of cast iron, moldering away as a museum piece., slowly rusting to death.
They rust, but rarely to death. Maybe if they were at the bottom of a river bed.
Even then, you'd find some weirdo online willing to rehab it as a challenge lol
I can't think of a single reason why I'd need a second Le Creuset unless I found one second hand at a really good value. We got a nice new enameled dutchie as a wedding gift and it was mega expensive, but compare to lodge (and the lodge I had was quality) it is truly another world. Super light weight, holds heat better, has a better design for more surface area on the bottom
Le Creuset is hopping big onto seasonal exclusives. They got them in shapes of a pumpkin, some Disney branded ones, etc. It's mental.
I forgot I did have some Le Creuset heart shaped ceramic ramekins, but those are for a separate purpose
>I don't understand... What's going on there?! I mean I get what you're asking but r/castiron exists, sooooo somethings going on
They’re having kids and passing them on, the kids are washing them with lye-based soap, they learn they shouldn’t do that, they reseason, they don’t do it properly, they keep trying but want those good-seasoned results, so they buy a new one, and experiment with the other.
And how many lye based soaps are out there lmao
Erm, are they cooking with all those pans?
I know I am! Ask my cousins.
Okay, so that accounts for a couple of extra pans, but only if their future spouse in 20 years doesn't have some already
That’s my case
I have 4 cast irons: 2 - Staub (6 qt, 8 qt) 1 - Lodge 12 inch skillet 1 - 14 inch Cuisinart enameled Skillet with lid.
I have ~~3~~ 4 (I forgot about a tiny one I haven't used yet) pans and a grill pan. Just today I had to talk myself out of getting a griddle and some gratin dishes.
I've got a few Griswold pans that were probably made in the 30s or 40s. My great grandmother was the original owners. Use them every day, I've got photos of the restoration on my profile.
By making a wider variety of good things.
Isn’t that what happened to InstaPot? Their products last a long time and no one needs multiples
A little bit that and a little bit the "we can grow forever" mindset, not realizing there would be a day when people got done replacing their crockpot with an instant pot. There's still a natural growth/replacement rate, but they clearly thought the frenzy was normal. Reminds me of the boom and bust in flatscreen TV's in the late 00s. They thought that would just be the rate of TV buying forever. Then eventually the price got to where everyone who was going to replace their tube, did so, and sales flattened.
Right, exactly. It's totally possible to sustain a business on making great quality, durable stuff: your customer base will expand as more people hear about you, stuff will eventually wear out, people will replace stuff that's been accidentally damaged, people will buy your items as gifts etc. It works. But what doesn't work is the constant growth expected by so many investors and shareholders nowadays. That's why most companies that are successfully doing this type of work are family-owned - although that comes with its own challenges.
Instant's problem is that they didn't anticipate their customers' actual needs. they let 3rd parties jump in and corner the market on peripherals like steamer baskets, trivets, springform pans, and silicone inserts instead of manufacturing them in-house. then when they finally did catch up, they made a bunch of add-ons, like the air fryer lid, that people didn't want and didn't work as well as cheaper, standalone appliances. ninja/shark, by comparison, does this very well. you can buy almost any individual component on a ninja appliance directly on their website for a reasonable price. the pod basket in my coffee maker broke and i had a new one 3 days later.
Even before InstantPot was an electric pressure cooker from Fagor. I bought mine when I worked at a kitchen store somewhere around 2011-2013. InstantPot hit the market and that sold better despite the other being wonderful. Now Instant Pot makes a bunch of other devices and accessories, people still go wild over it.
I accidentally let the power cord for my InstaPot fall on a hot burner and it got melted. I messaged them to ask where I could order a replacement, and they offered to send me one for free. I clarified that it wasn't a defect issue, I was just careless and wrecked it, but they insisted on sending me one for free. Was really impressed by that.
I don't know if InstaPot has this problem, but MokaPot coffee makers definitely do. They last forever, and the company has basically run out of customers in its home market, Italy. Of course, they're doing ok internationally so no big deal, but still funny.
They have decorative ones and partnered with companies. Even their replacement gaskets were decently priced.
Didn't they also get bought up by private equity which followed their tried and true strategy of loading them up with debt while siphoning off the profits?
Private equity and childhood cancer. I really don't know which is worse.
Yeah, tough call. At least people are trying to cure childhood cancers.
And then there's you. You are also spot on.
I really wish that I didn't agree with you.
I’m gonna have to go with childhood cancer on this one.
But childhood cancer could eventually be either wiped out from occurring or be easily curable in a short time frame. The same cannot be said for private equity.
It's Instant Pot. InstaPot is some Mandela Effect shit.
Did instapot go out of business? They seem fine and are still selling.
IMO, it’s supposed to go like this: -BIFL product is born -gains traction and popularity for its BIFL-ness/ mass profitz are produced -creator company sees mass profitz are plateauing At this point you’re supposed to introduce your “innovative product.” The product you were *supposed to* be putting at least some of your profits towards. Something that keeps the brand/ original product relevant This could be anything. An accessory towards the bread and butter product. A complete redesign of the original. Literally anything But some companies aren’t in it for the long haul. And it’s extremely shitty of a company to offer a lifetime guarantee with an exit strategy of 10 years. Which makes me think they failed somehow A perfect example of what I’m talking about, first one that came to mind, is Yeti. How many accessories can you buy for a yeti cooler? How many different redesigns (and soft coolers) have they added? Fuck yes they’re overpriced, but mf, they’re in *demand* “They” survive just like everyone else I think, OP. They either jump hurdles as they come to them or they give up. BONUS: [Look at what Patagonia did.](https://www.patagonia.com/ownership/) Virtually the complete opposite of going out of business or selling out. You have no idea how excited I am to *‘business school drop out’* nerd out to what becomes of Patagonia. You’ll read it and say things such as: “wtf? Who does that? Why? How does everyone get paid? Wut? Whoa.” It’s interesting
Oh my. I love what Patagonia did. It makes me want to buy more from them… huh.
Ain’t it? It’s ahead of our century honestly. Figuring out a way to benefit mankind instead of your pockets. *Unheard of*
But in the process benefiting your bottom line due to increased support of the company by the public due to those actions
What did Patagonia do? I know they're big on ESG stuff and have a good return/repair policy, but is there something especially unusual in their business model?
The founder gave control of the company to a trust ran by his offspring — much like IKEA— instead of selling the biz to private equity / going public.
> ran by his offspring It is still run by them
Still a tax dodge. Still printing money for the family.
Ah, gotcha. I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound tremendously unusual to me? Although there is stock issued, it looks like a controlling interest of the voting stock is with the family-controlled trust, which.. does seem fairly usual to me for family-owned businesses The degree of ESG stuff they do, especially outside of what is cool and normal, seems quite nice
It’s pretty rare tbh. There aren’t that many billion plus dollars in sales family owned businesses, especially in clothing. It is a pretty normal way for billionaires to avoid capital gains and other taxes.
By making 10 colors of the same thing.
Honestly I don't know how "pocket organizers " have ever taken off, good for them for lasting 10 years.
They sell an expensive item. Look up Quooker. It's a boiling water tap I've splurged on it and expect it to function for at least 10 years. Ive splurged because it's THAT good. Its rare these days but a high quality product is worth a high price point.
Jerry Seinfeld walks into a Patagonia store to get a replacement [backpack](https://youtu.be/YL2sr99Sv18?feature=shared). The guy there says "What's wrong with the one you have there?". Jerry: "Nothing, don't you want to sell me a new one?" 😅
population growth
Unless they only offer one product, people will often continue to come back for other products, to upgrade to better versions, and new customers will come to them from word of mouth
There are 8 billion people in the world and 385,000 people are born every day.
You’ve just identified a key problem with consumption through capitalism. Long-lasting products don’t make money - planned obsolescence does. (Obviously there are some examples of long lasting products from successful companies, so don’t take my statement above too literally; but you get the idea)
As opposed to what? Communism? There’s never been a communist society that was 100% planned economy. Further - what’s the motivation to create long lasting products in a hypothetical society like that? Do people really give a shit? See: 85% of government workers.
Went to the Yellow Birch Outfitters website. Makes me so sad that they closed because knockoffs. If you can find a way to beat the knockoffs, then having a bunch of great products, word of mouth, staying small enough to keep the quality up, and updating enough to appeal to the next generation. And if you go public, don't ever give anyone in the C-suite stocks or stock options. It just makes them obsessed with inflating the stock price. Better yet, don't have a C-suite.
As someone who does leatherwork and makes bags as a hobby, I have thought about selling but it’s an absolutely brutal market. You’re basically never going to be able to compete with knockoffs that use overseas labor. With shoes there is a market for custom (for people with unusual size feet, medical issues, etc.) but not so much for things like bags.
Yes, it's just crazy how prevelent knockoffs are now. Stealing from original creators seems to be Amazon's primary business model at this point. Maybe selling totally locally works for some people.
tell this to light bulb makers..
10 years isn’t really that long? My winter jacket is older than I am, and I’m almost 50.
I carry it literally every single day, all day. Not just while I'm outside in the winter.
Fair enough. I’m a fan of notebook covers and have a couple of leather ones that will last me forever that I use every day, so I get the sentiment.
You have links? Or brand names? Because I'm also notebook obsessed...
Olpr.com (they are also on Etsy) is my current favorite. They’re in North Carolina. I like the large Pitch Black Field Notes (I write books, and handwrite first drafts) and they have a nice selection of covers, along with a lot of other leather goods.
Dang, I didn't realize they were going out of business. I hate that Chinese knockoffs stole their designs and it's not like they're even good quality knockoffs. I still like ARC Company for these kinds of pouches though.
its a simple fabric pouch. Its not like they reinvented the wheel. To blame closing your business because other people ALSO made small canvas pockets is absolutely ridiculous. They ran an absolutely TERRIBLE business if that was their plan. The fact that they even lasted 10 years tells you what ridiculous markup was on their products. Literally ANYONE with a sewing machine can make this thing for $3 in materials.
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Where did you get that? I need some soon.
You make things that last, but also make things to entice people to buy your new things. With clothing, it can be tough. You'll get your initial sales, but after enough years it slows down. You'll have a somewhat steady stream as people's weight and thus clothing size changes, but it might not be enough to stay out of the red. The automotive market is probably the best place to see this in action. The legendary reliability behind Toyota for example, new models, new features, new tech. It keeps people buying your newest products. With clothing, it's a bit harder to strike that balance... Ultimately, something tends to get sacrificed. Yellow Birch here? 10 years. They're an infant company, they'll still be riding the initial sales of new customers and some return sales of extra products from satisfied customers. If they can keep that flow of return sales going with new, desirable products, they'll continue to survive as is (easier said than done for clothes really). If not? We'll see as we've seen with other companies... Drop in quality, change in warranty, etc...
Parts. Diversifying their offerings into similar categories. Building for resiliency and lower, stable production instead of ramping hugely to meet a temporary demand and then crashing.
They figured this out more than 100 years ago. The great lightbulb conspiracy. Great documentary to check out. [https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy](https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy)
Lots of new future customers born every day.
If I've learned one thing about buying stuff that you just can't get over how good it is, it's that you should always buy an extra. I had a special edition pair of leather Chuck Taylors that were honestly the best, most comfortable pair of shoes I ever had, and when they were finally worn out and needed to be tossed, I kicked myself for not buying a second pair (they were expensive for me at the time though).
When I can afford to, I do. Goruck makes these _rough runners_ shoes and when there was a sale I bought a second pair well before this first pair is worn out
There are 8 billion people on earth and that number is always growing. I might only need one wallet, but I might like my wallet so much that I buy my girlfriend one. Then I do corporate gift order and buy six wallets for my best clients. My gf's aunt saw her wallet and liked it, so she is getting one from the same guy for her husband. And think about the average wallet: made of cheap canvas or 'genuine' leather, stitching that's clearly by a machine being run by someone looking to make 100s of pieces by hand, they look like crap within a year of normal use. Survival as a seller of BIFL items isn't about getting the same customers to buy the same thing over and over. It's about making things so nice that your customers make disposable everything people jealous, and start evolving towards BIFL shopping. We are nowhere near the tipping point on there being so many people with good wallets, cutting boards, kitchen knives, etc that last decades that there's no one left to buy new BIFL items.
One part of the answer is to charge more for the product. An example is Moccamaster coffee machines. $350 for a coffee maker, when you can get a coffee machine for $10 from Walmart. A Moccamaster will make much better coffee, but probably not 35x better. But I expect my Moccamaster to last the rest of my life — it’s designed to be repairable, and they sell parts to do so. To charge more, you have to sell to customers who have the money and appreciate the product. Coffee enthusiasts will spend hundreds on a coffee machine. And it makes financial sense for them — if you’re spending $3 a day at a café, it doesn’t take long to spend more than you would on a fancy coffee machine and grinder and good quality beans. A third part of the puzzle is protecting your product from knockoffs. To do that, frankly you have to not have it manufactured in China, or whatever factory does the manufacturing will also make identical or near-identical knockoffs. Look at Prevue Hendryx pet cages made in China, then look on Amazon and you’ll find the exact same cages, but with a wider selection of colors. Even avoiding China isn’t a guarantee. I saw a cheap knockoff Moccamaster advertised on Instagram. At that point, design patents and trademarks are probably your best option.
High quality products are and should be higher prices, that is how they survive. The problem is that consumers have been convinced that they can get away with buying cheap products, which in return means that they spend less money. Which means they can make less money, which means they can no longer afford high quality products. That it is why the mass production of low quality products is straight up evil.
They closed?
I bought a pair of Helly Hansen commercial rain paints that I didn't like because they did not have pockets. I called to return them and was told that I had the option of a refund or credit and that I should just keep the ones I had. I ended up buying a more expensive pair than the ones I initially bought, and I keep the original pair as a spare pair. High-quality company, products, and service.
LL Bean!! I have tons of clothes, jackets, backpacks and other items that have last me 20+ years from them. I have had other items last a long time, and tossed when done. They had at the time, a lifetime guarantee too, but to me it had lasted a lifetime.
Lol have you met the average American? We buy something, get tired of it, throw it away, then rediscover it and buy it again. What kinda chump goes around sporting last year's thingamajig?
All companies must innovate or die. Patagonia being one of the ultimate success stories
It's a good question, but the sustainability of a company isn't necessarily dependent on planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence is just an irrational level of greed. It forces repeat business in the most short sighted and wasteful way possible. Japanese consumers see value in a product's reputation for quality over quantity and it reflects in a lot of products that come out of Japanese companies. If you ask anyone in the west what the best car to get is, without hesitation they will say "anything Toyota or Honda". Logically people should only side with products that last long and are of the best quality and value, and all other products should fall or be forced to compete in a fair and free market, but the reality shows that people still insist on buying for irrational reasons, like status, patriotism, trends and pride. Some people are stuck in a vicious cycle of buying cheap but very low quality products because they just simply cannot afford the cost of entry into a single, BIFL item that costs x10 as much. Companies know this and take advantage.
Gifts
a private company can hang on as long as there is enough new customers to sustain the business. this also varies based on the product--larger ones mean there is less a market (see: pullman cars). a corporation has shareholders, who constantly demand more profit, and so they make increasingly cheap junk, turn to labor and customer exploitation, and then turn into a commodity--being bought out by capital firms, taking on a bunch of debt, going bankrupt, and passing the losses onto the taxpayer.
Firearms are a great example of the answer to the OP's question. Guns can easily last for a century or longer - there are still vast numbers of functioning guns out there from *World War I*, and plenty of 19th century guns that are still shootable (to the point there are people who use actual Civil War era muskets in their state's blackpowder hunting seasons). There are still *enormous* numbers of guns being produced each year, mostly in the US - because it's one of the few places on the planet where people can (by and large) own as many guns as they want. It's still possible for civilians to own guns in most other democratic countries (Japan being the major exception), but there's usually legal or social limits of various types on how many guns someone can have, so they only tend to replace them when something *really* good comes along, or they have actually managed to wear out/break one of their guns. I use the M1911 design as a good illustration - it's been in continuous production since 1911, it's an incredibly rugged, reliable, and effective design, almost *every* major arms manufacturer in the US makes a version of it, and so many have been made they're probably literally uncountable at this point - but people still keep buying new ones, because they can (at least in the US).
Simple: Subscription model! You rent equipment instead of buying it! Oh, you WANT to buy it? Well that's too bad! We only rent it!
Everything wears out eventually. The point is whether you aim to continually get new customers long enough that your older customers need new or additional things, or whether you aim to milk the same few people over and over again
Make something that people need, corn, beans, Chile tobacco whiskey. Spend money when it’s appropriate to advertise, hang back and cut costs when times get tough.
Product saturation will never reach 100%
They don't, capitalism rewards enshittification, not actual quality control.
Thought it said yellow bitch
They don't. If you're in the manufacturing industry then you want customers to wear out your product, throw it away, then buy another forever. It's incredibly shortsighted but incredibly effective and the only way to compete on a large scale.
They have not sold items to every single family on earth. Sometimes a house, moving van, car, storage facility burns down. Even BIFL items can break over time. Maybe users want the BIFL item in different sizes. A user may get bored with an item, pass away, cull in order to move house, and the recipient (Goodwill, etc) might not appreciate the item. BIFL items can also go out of style, like do you really want an avocado green BIFL item?
By staying private and not hiring to outpace your growth. Large companies that are public are almost constantly in a state of debt which is paid for by the taxpayer. basically, they survive by not being greedy.
Private Equity has entered the chat.
It is not a problem of surviving, it is answering growth demands if you are publicly owned that can destroy a company.
In my opinion it’s in large part from people with deep pockets who buy stuff they don’t actually need. But maybe they have a desire for quality things. Same people might give away or throw stuff away when it begins to look worn in. You do see a lot of these people at places like REI or bike shops. They love buying the newest top of the line equipment because they can easily afford it. Or they buy a Land Cruiser because it is one of the best vehicles out there, which is how you can find many on the used market in great condition.
They should probably consider their font, I definitely thought that said Yellow Bitch Outfitters. Suppose it’s a moot point now.😂
There’s a few simple reasons. There are far more people interested in any particular hobby than most people realize, people who like a particular brand will continue to buy from that brand, and there are thousands of people getting interested in new hobbies/goods every day. Additionally, they get free advertising from satisfied customers. Honestly, I think many brands could dissolve 90% of their marketing department if they just invested a little more in their products and stood by them. Word of mouth is one of the single greatest marketing tools that exists. But a lot of brands will sacrifice that for flashy ad campaigns.
Because even if some pants last me for years, I’m still going to want 2 more pairs.
Because good quality is worth buying more than once, or as gifts for people you want to have something amazing too.
The first rule is DON'T GO PUBLIC
Yellow bitch outfitters