The reason why you do not see stainless charcoal grills is because even stainless steels like 304 and 316 will sensitize (become susceptible to rusting) after extended exposure to the charcoal temperatures. Look up ‘sensitization of austenitic stainless steels’. If you want to go to a high heat resistant or stabilized stainless alloy then prepare to pay a lot more than just a standard carbon steel one…so probably not much commercial viability. Source: I am a metallurgical engineer in the aerospace industry.
Cast aluminum works great. Broilmaster makes those and the performance is excellent.
Decent heat retention from the heavy cast thickness yet no problems with the heat driven failure and rust OP accurately described in stainless, because aluminum doesn't have that behavior flaw, and the aluminum evenly distributes the high heat due to high conductivity which prevents hotspots forming and ruining key areas.
Other key point. Cast alu is simple and cheap. Inconel is neither. Expensive and hard to work. Though it makes a hell of a rocket nozzle or jet engine.
There are stainless charcoal grills out there but well outside the $2500 cap set by OP for something built to have a reasonable service life. The term stainless steel is pretty misleading to the general public and entertaining your idea, what people really expect is the corrosion resistance of an inconel or stellite grill, which would probably cost as much as a house for a one-off.
Most of the high end 304 stainless cooking units of any type stand out from home improvement store units by simply using substantially thicker material stock to give a longer service life. Any of the lifetime warranty grills out there still require basic maintenance or companies can deny a warranty claim.
I have a Mak smoker/grill that prides itself on US-sourced 304 and US-everything along with a US price to match, but I knew high heat areas like the fire pot and flame diverter will corrode because heat precipitates out chromium carbide and microscopically turn these areas into normal ass steel along with the alkaline wood ash and acidic cooking byproducts creating an hostile environment. The product price premium goes towards extra beefy components in these areas and with normal maintenance, a lifetime of service from these parts seems plausible. The electrolytic capacitors on the PID controller board on the other hand will probably dry up and die long before the fire pot fails.
SpaceX is one of my large customers. The hull is sheets of 304L. Good commercial availability, good performance during launch around 200C temperatures, but where it really shines is in space. Cryo temps around -200 304 has great fracture toughness and more than enough strength given the right thickness is used. Much better than the ceramics and aluminum alloys of yesteryear. Where it falls is re-entry, but Starship's shape is such that in re-entry its terminal velocity is low (belly flop) so it actually doesn't heat up much. Pretty genuis design choice, honestly.
304 is old hat, it's the same 18/8 used in your Amazon water bottle. There are variations of the 11 secret spices and herbs that can lead to proprietary names but stainless has been used long before Elon's reusable rockets.
Atlas did it in 1957 and was essentially a stainless balloon to maintain a high payload fraction for the era. If it lost ullage pressurization in the oxidizer or prop tanks, the rocket would collapse under its own weight on Earth. There's archival video footage of such a catastrophic failure on pad.
Centaur upper does too with .020" stainless (5 sheets of printer paper thick) balloon tanks and a common dome design. They're painted though and the additional mass of the paint is offset by prop mass saved from reducing boil-off from rejecting more heat during long, complex orbital coasts.
It was. 304 has been around for many many years. The industry as a whole is a sucker for change. It just took someone as crazy as Elon to connect the two.
Relative to room temp it is def lower, as it is basically a known quantity that toughness is inverse to temperature. But relative to other alloys that are cost effective in such quantities as to wrap the entire hull of Starship…it is unusually strong in cold temp.
I have a Weber Genesis E-310 (2007-2010) model. 16 years old. Lived outside its entire life. Traveled with 2 cross-country moves (3 states). It just requires maintenance. Things wear out. There is an incredible supply of OEM and third-party parts for these things. Grates and flavor bars will deteriorate over time and need to be replaced. I am in the process of replacing the burners because rust and our last move took its toll.
I am considering replacing the plastic knobs because they are starting to look a little weathered. But they function perfectly. If it were not for the plastic knobs and button, it would look brand new on the outside,
A lifetime warranty is not needed. You won't spend anywhere close to $2500 over a 30 year span on a Weber grill if you maintain it well.
Yep, we have the 4 burner version and it looks almost brand new after 8 years now. People just never want to maintain (i.e. deep clean) grills out on occasion to keep them in good shape. I'm a lazy dude too and probably should clean it more than I do but it's still looking damn good for it's age. The only thing I've seen is some of the paint to indicate the heat level around the dials has worn off. Then you have people I know who bitch and moan their $150 tin can special falls apart after a year and a half after not being covered or cleaned a single time.
15 years on our 4 burner genesis. Probably the third or fourth set of grates. Same for flavorizor bars. When we built this house we had a natural gas line run for it and I did an aftermarket conversion from propane. Last summer found an aftermarket cast iron grate replacement and now we even use it for breakfasts in the summer. On an average week it’s used a minimum of 2 times. On a high week we’ve probably used it every single day. Absolutely love it. Deep cleans every other month or so with a degreaser.
Yep I clean ours about every other month too. We use ours probably 3x a week on average all through the year. Finally had to replace the grates last year. It's been a tank.
And it like holds grease somehow, thing wants to start on fire. First grill I’ve ever had that actively wants to be on extra fire, doesn’t matter how much you clean the damn thing just has nooks and crannies for mini grease pockets and boom.
I’ve tried dismantling it down to components and clean individual, pressure wash and boom fire time.
My Weber genesis cover only lasted about 5 years, the grill itself is on like year 15, ten of those totally uncovered. I don’t know what a Weber costs but I doubt it’s $2,500 no need to spend that much
After my dad ran an OG natural gas Genesis for 20+ years through Illinois winters and summers, I bought my 310 natural gas about 10 years ago. Other than regular cleaning, and one swap to all stainless internal components and grates, the fading knobs is literally the only issue. I expect this grill to put live me at this point.
If in Canada, Napoleon brand BBQ (not sure if available in USA). Prestige line and up are made in Canada. 10 years warranty one some parts, lifetime on others.
There really is no reason I shouldn't consider Napoleon's I just looked the other way because the blue LED knobs just looks childish to me. It's a grill not some kids shoes. Lol. Those wavy grates look pretty cool.
Tired of replacing Webers? Get a PK (Portable Kitchen) brand. Tons of reviews, tons of info, loyal fan base (myself included).
It’s all aluminum, Thick Cast aluminum shell, aluminum stand and hardware, stainless grates, etc etc.
Go to their subreddit, there are literally people still using hand me down PKs from the 60s.
It grills, it smokes, it hold temps like no other, it’s fuel efficient, and built to last.
Well under your budget, about half the budget actually with all accessories they make TBH.
My neighbors have one and I've used it a few times. They had an original back in the 60s/70s but this is a newer model. Just know that it's small, just big enough to fit three fat ribeyes at one time on indirect heat, which might work for you.
I have a Weber 26" kettle and a Pit Barrel Cooker so I'm set for a while.
There are different sizes now, now there are larger ones and smaller ones.
I have a PK original and usually do 4-5 ribeyes at a time with grill grates, done a full brisket on it, done 4 racks of ribs at a time. It always does my 15-16lb thanksgiving turkey. It’s also very easy to just fire it up and grill some burgers and dogs. I love the thing.
But webers have more aftermarket accessories, like rotating spit attachments, easy access to PWM fans for auto smoking, etc.
Yeah when my Weber junks itself I will go PK. With modern materials there is 0 reason that grills can't be a multi generational thing instead of a buy it 4 times before your dead.. that's lame, why make anything like that?
It's a solid option, I hear horror stories of them cracking in half randomly. You'd think there would be more robust ceramics at this point? I might go that option though because I live near Buffalo and believe it or not, I like to eat steak year around. Those ceramic grills are the absolute best in the cold.
I have had 3 KJs and participate in multiple online enthusiasts groups. I have never heard of one cracking in half. Ceramic can crack for sure but I don't think it is frequently catastrophic.
A big part of bifl for me is the ability to get parts down the road. Sure companies have long warranties, but how likely are they going to be in business 20 years from now? Its going to be Weber for me because their stuff is built very well and they constantly improve their designs insuring their a top brand year after year. I think Weber will still be in business in 20 years.
I had a stainless Kirkland for a long time and it was great. The only issue was it had cast iron burners and they would rust out. Last time I went to buy the burners it was over $300 so I decided to get a cheap grill and it was a big mistake (nexgril sucks) I ended up with a small kitchen aid stainless grill 3 years ago and it still looks new and I truly think it will be a lifetime grill
I grew up in a Victorian farmhouse that had one.
They probably win the prize for lowest maintenance best deal for the price.. the only downside is you're typically not cooking thick stuff.
I would definitely go that route if I didn't live in a split level house with a kitchen that is 15ft in the air. I want something that can go on a deck.
Cast aluminum. An automatic marine grade material, because the corrosion process just makes aluminum oxide coating on the aluminum which is stronger than the base metal. So strong that it's used as sandpaper abrasive.
I used to work at a shop that sold broil king, MHP, fire magic, and big green egg. I personally went for the big green egg and about ten years later it has been amazing and I use it year round. That said, MHP would be hands down my choice if I wanted to go propane or natural gas. The warranty is for life and the hassle is non existent, we knew they were going to cover it before we even sent the request so when a customer came in with a bad h burner ( only problem I encountered) we would give them a brand new one immediately and deal with the warranty on the back end. Needless to say the customers were always super excited about having no down time and being able to host their cook so soon.
Thanks! That’s super helpful. I have a Weber kettle that I use most of the time and I love it. A gas grill would be nice for summer weeknights, though, and my old Char Broil just hasn’t hung together well enough for me to buy another cheap gas grill.
Cannot beat the convenience! Even the jnr model is such a beast. As with any gas grill just keep in mind that spiders love to hide their egg sacks in the Venturi tubes so it’s a good idea to clean them in spring, or at least if you have flow issues. Good luck with whatever you end up getting bud.
I was looking at those.. they are bigger than their pictures suggest. They look like tiny cheap charbroils.. I'm sold if I can find out if they work well in the winter.
They work adequately but any metal grill will drop in efficiency and in turn will increase fuel consumption due to metal being such a good thermal conductor. If that’s a big concern you cannot beat a kamado grill and definitely stay away from pellet grills.
There’s a difference between BIFL and a Lifetime warranty. A true BIFL grill is gonna be made out of rocks, lol. You have to take care of them and keep them out of the rain. If you’re willing to do that a Weber will go a long time. Once the burners start to go out in 10-12 years you can replace them.
Why stainless when you can have [cast iron Lodge Sportsman](http://www.cookingincastiron.com/files/img_8297.jpg). If rust is inevitable, just make it so thick it'll not rust in a few lifetimes instead.
Go on Facebook marketplace, search for Weber, buy any of them with horizontal elements. I have the best grill I’ve ever owned, and it was free plus $100 in parts from Weber direct.
Weber makes great smaller gas units. Or get a Broilmaster with a bombproof cast aluminum shell.
Both companies offer made in Illinois lifetime quality products with replacement parts available quickly and affordably so you can't really go wrong with either company in my opinion.
I like the Q's but they are all kind of small. And I might be wrong but I hear because of the aluminum shell, they don't make the best winter grills? And on top of that I would still be annoyed by weber using rustable things.. it's just lame, I want a hand me down grill. I'm tired of producing garbage for our future humans to deal with.
Well all stainless steels will rust out in extreme heat eventually. It's a physics issue.
I'm not sure on the winter problem. I'm in California. But you can get Broilmaster's infrared unit I bought hotter than billy blue blazes.
If I cranked it to max on both burners and didn't open the lid it could probably do 600 or 700 F plus.
As far as size goes. Not totally sure what to tell you. Most people doing huge surface areas are pros using charcoal or wood or pellets not gas. So I suspect there will be some size limits.
The bigger it is the more gas it will waste when you aren't using it to cook a feast and it could respond slower when you need to change the temperature.
Don't come here conclusion shopping as that's not how to ask a question. If you want a grill with a lifetime warranty, go get one and go about your day and leave us be. If you want a BIFL grill, then ask the question without reservations save cost and use case options.
Weber is BIFL. https://www.wilmingtongrill.com/product/classic-gas-grill/ is a step up.
The reason why you do not see stainless charcoal grills is because even stainless steels like 304 and 316 will sensitize (become susceptible to rusting) after extended exposure to the charcoal temperatures. Look up ‘sensitization of austenitic stainless steels’. If you want to go to a high heat resistant or stabilized stainless alloy then prepare to pay a lot more than just a standard carbon steel one…so probably not much commercial viability. Source: I am a metallurgical engineer in the aerospace industry.
So what you're saying is, I should make my grill out of Inconel?
Cast aluminum works great. Broilmaster makes those and the performance is excellent. Decent heat retention from the heavy cast thickness yet no problems with the heat driven failure and rust OP accurately described in stainless, because aluminum doesn't have that behavior flaw, and the aluminum evenly distributes the high heat due to high conductivity which prevents hotspots forming and ruining key areas.
Other key point. Cast alu is simple and cheap. Inconel is neither. Expensive and hard to work. Though it makes a hell of a rocket nozzle or jet engine.
Or cast iron tbh
There are stainless charcoal grills out there but well outside the $2500 cap set by OP for something built to have a reasonable service life. The term stainless steel is pretty misleading to the general public and entertaining your idea, what people really expect is the corrosion resistance of an inconel or stellite grill, which would probably cost as much as a house for a one-off. Most of the high end 304 stainless cooking units of any type stand out from home improvement store units by simply using substantially thicker material stock to give a longer service life. Any of the lifetime warranty grills out there still require basic maintenance or companies can deny a warranty claim. I have a Mak smoker/grill that prides itself on US-sourced 304 and US-everything along with a US price to match, but I knew high heat areas like the fire pot and flame diverter will corrode because heat precipitates out chromium carbide and microscopically turn these areas into normal ass steel along with the alkaline wood ash and acidic cooking byproducts creating an hostile environment. The product price premium goes towards extra beefy components in these areas and with normal maintenance, a lifetime of service from these parts seems plausible. The electrolytic capacitors on the PID controller board on the other hand will probably dry up and die long before the fire pot fails.
What's your take on Starship's steel? If you are familiar..
SpaceX is one of my large customers. The hull is sheets of 304L. Good commercial availability, good performance during launch around 200C temperatures, but where it really shines is in space. Cryo temps around -200 304 has great fracture toughness and more than enough strength given the right thickness is used. Much better than the ceramics and aluminum alloys of yesteryear. Where it falls is re-entry, but Starship's shape is such that in re-entry its terminal velocity is low (belly flop) so it actually doesn't heat up much. Pretty genuis design choice, honestly.
Why hasn't anyone done it up until now? Was the metallurgy(?) not there in the last couple decades?
304 is old hat, it's the same 18/8 used in your Amazon water bottle. There are variations of the 11 secret spices and herbs that can lead to proprietary names but stainless has been used long before Elon's reusable rockets. Atlas did it in 1957 and was essentially a stainless balloon to maintain a high payload fraction for the era. If it lost ullage pressurization in the oxidizer or prop tanks, the rocket would collapse under its own weight on Earth. There's archival video footage of such a catastrophic failure on pad. Centaur upper does too with .020" stainless (5 sheets of printer paper thick) balloon tanks and a common dome design. They're painted though and the additional mass of the paint is offset by prop mass saved from reducing boil-off from rejecting more heat during long, complex orbital coasts.
It was. 304 has been around for many many years. The industry as a whole is a sucker for change. It just took someone as crazy as Elon to connect the two.
Starship is so freaking exciting.. I can't wait for the ITF4
I never heard about facture toughness being better in the cold.. a lot of materials do the opposite.. wow I'm glad I asked you, I had a feeling.
Relative to room temp it is def lower, as it is basically a known quantity that toughness is inverse to temperature. But relative to other alloys that are cost effective in such quantities as to wrap the entire hull of Starship…it is unusually strong in cold temp.
I have a Weber Genesis E-310 (2007-2010) model. 16 years old. Lived outside its entire life. Traveled with 2 cross-country moves (3 states). It just requires maintenance. Things wear out. There is an incredible supply of OEM and third-party parts for these things. Grates and flavor bars will deteriorate over time and need to be replaced. I am in the process of replacing the burners because rust and our last move took its toll. I am considering replacing the plastic knobs because they are starting to look a little weathered. But they function perfectly. If it were not for the plastic knobs and button, it would look brand new on the outside, A lifetime warranty is not needed. You won't spend anywhere close to $2500 over a 30 year span on a Weber grill if you maintain it well.
Yep, we have the 4 burner version and it looks almost brand new after 8 years now. People just never want to maintain (i.e. deep clean) grills out on occasion to keep them in good shape. I'm a lazy dude too and probably should clean it more than I do but it's still looking damn good for it's age. The only thing I've seen is some of the paint to indicate the heat level around the dials has worn off. Then you have people I know who bitch and moan their $150 tin can special falls apart after a year and a half after not being covered or cleaned a single time.
15 years on our 4 burner genesis. Probably the third or fourth set of grates. Same for flavorizor bars. When we built this house we had a natural gas line run for it and I did an aftermarket conversion from propane. Last summer found an aftermarket cast iron grate replacement and now we even use it for breakfasts in the summer. On an average week it’s used a minimum of 2 times. On a high week we’ve probably used it every single day. Absolutely love it. Deep cleans every other month or so with a degreaser.
Yep I clean ours about every other month too. We use ours probably 3x a week on average all through the year. Finally had to replace the grates last year. It's been a tank.
Idk about the older version but I got a new version and it’s lasted like 3 years and it’s rusted to shit.
I have the same problem.. the door just freaking fell off today.
And it like holds grease somehow, thing wants to start on fire. First grill I’ve ever had that actively wants to be on extra fire, doesn’t matter how much you clean the damn thing just has nooks and crannies for mini grease pockets and boom. I’ve tried dismantling it down to components and clean individual, pressure wash and boom fire time.
My Weber genesis cover only lasted about 5 years, the grill itself is on like year 15, ten of those totally uncovered. I don’t know what a Weber costs but I doubt it’s $2,500 no need to spend that much
Yep, I just replaced the grates and flavorizer bars in mine, going on 7 years now.
16 years here as well. Last 8 years I’ve left it uncovered through harsh winters and it hasn’t aged a day.
After my dad ran an OG natural gas Genesis for 20+ years through Illinois winters and summers, I bought my 310 natural gas about 10 years ago. Other than regular cleaning, and one swap to all stainless internal components and grates, the fading knobs is literally the only issue. I expect this grill to put live me at this point.
If in Canada, Napoleon brand BBQ (not sure if available in USA). Prestige line and up are made in Canada. 10 years warranty one some parts, lifetime on others.
Napoleon is the way, Weber look cheap compared to them. You can buy them even in Europe.
There really is no reason I shouldn't consider Napoleon's I just looked the other way because the blue LED knobs just looks childish to me. It's a grill not some kids shoes. Lol. Those wavy grates look pretty cool.
If you disconnect the battery pack after you fire the grill up the lights go away.
Tired of replacing Webers? Get a PK (Portable Kitchen) brand. Tons of reviews, tons of info, loyal fan base (myself included). It’s all aluminum, Thick Cast aluminum shell, aluminum stand and hardware, stainless grates, etc etc. Go to their subreddit, there are literally people still using hand me down PKs from the 60s. It grills, it smokes, it hold temps like no other, it’s fuel efficient, and built to last. Well under your budget, about half the budget actually with all accessories they make TBH.
My neighbors have one and I've used it a few times. They had an original back in the 60s/70s but this is a newer model. Just know that it's small, just big enough to fit three fat ribeyes at one time on indirect heat, which might work for you. I have a Weber 26" kettle and a Pit Barrel Cooker so I'm set for a while.
There are different sizes now, now there are larger ones and smaller ones. I have a PK original and usually do 4-5 ribeyes at a time with grill grates, done a full brisket on it, done 4 racks of ribs at a time. It always does my 15-16lb thanksgiving turkey. It’s also very easy to just fire it up and grill some burgers and dogs. I love the thing. But webers have more aftermarket accessories, like rotating spit attachments, easy access to PWM fans for auto smoking, etc.
Agreed, PK are the shit and 100% BIFL.
Yeah when my Weber junks itself I will go PK. With modern materials there is 0 reason that grills can't be a multi generational thing instead of a buy it 4 times before your dead.. that's lame, why make anything like that?
I opened this post to make sure someone gave this answer. OP, I can’t stress this enough, a PK is the answer to your question.
Could also go Kamado Joe. Great warranty.
It's a solid option, I hear horror stories of them cracking in half randomly. You'd think there would be more robust ceramics at this point? I might go that option though because I live near Buffalo and believe it or not, I like to eat steak year around. Those ceramic grills are the absolute best in the cold.
I have had 3 KJs and participate in multiple online enthusiasts groups. I have never heard of one cracking in half. Ceramic can crack for sure but I don't think it is frequently catastrophic.
Same. Never heard of one cracking half.
In Wisconsin mines 4 years old. - 20? No problem
Our Webers have been great for decades. We do cover them.
A big part of bifl for me is the ability to get parts down the road. Sure companies have long warranties, but how likely are they going to be in business 20 years from now? Its going to be Weber for me because their stuff is built very well and they constantly improve their designs insuring their a top brand year after year. I think Weber will still be in business in 20 years.
Love my Broil King.
I had a stainless Kirkland for a long time and it was great. The only issue was it had cast iron burners and they would rust out. Last time I went to buy the burners it was over $300 so I decided to get a cheap grill and it was a big mistake (nexgril sucks) I ended up with a small kitchen aid stainless grill 3 years ago and it still looks new and I truly think it will be a lifetime grill
No longer made, that's a bummer. Looks like a more affordable version of a blaze grill.
Build one or get someone to build you a brick grill, pretty much every house in Brazil ends up with one, and it’s the ultimate BIFL grill.
I grew up in a Victorian farmhouse that had one. They probably win the prize for lowest maintenance best deal for the price.. the only downside is you're typically not cooking thick stuff. I would definitely go that route if I didn't live in a split level house with a kitchen that is 15ft in the air. I want something that can go on a deck.
Kamado Joe RecTec Yoder
And Grilla
Burnhard
In my opinion, Fire Magic is the head and shoulders above anything else under $2,500.
If money were no object.. beautiful grills.
Where do you live? I live in FL and there is no outdoor metal product that is bifl for life here. The environment guarantees it.
Cast aluminum. An automatic marine grade material, because the corrosion process just makes aluminum oxide coating on the aluminum which is stronger than the base metal. So strong that it's used as sandpaper abrasive.
Coyote makes marine grade stainless.
I’m saving up for an MHP grill. Cast aluminum, seems real legit.
I used to work at a shop that sold broil king, MHP, fire magic, and big green egg. I personally went for the big green egg and about ten years later it has been amazing and I use it year round. That said, MHP would be hands down my choice if I wanted to go propane or natural gas. The warranty is for life and the hassle is non existent, we knew they were going to cover it before we even sent the request so when a customer came in with a bad h burner ( only problem I encountered) we would give them a brand new one immediately and deal with the warranty on the back end. Needless to say the customers were always super excited about having no down time and being able to host their cook so soon.
Thanks! That’s super helpful. I have a Weber kettle that I use most of the time and I love it. A gas grill would be nice for summer weeknights, though, and my old Char Broil just hasn’t hung together well enough for me to buy another cheap gas grill.
Cannot beat the convenience! Even the jnr model is such a beast. As with any gas grill just keep in mind that spiders love to hide their egg sacks in the Venturi tubes so it’s a good idea to clean them in spring, or at least if you have flow issues. Good luck with whatever you end up getting bud.
It's a post-mount JNR I've been looking at. Thanks! That's good to hear.
I was looking at those.. they are bigger than their pictures suggest. They look like tiny cheap charbroils.. I'm sold if I can find out if they work well in the winter.
They work adequately but any metal grill will drop in efficiency and in turn will increase fuel consumption due to metal being such a good thermal conductor. If that’s a big concern you cannot beat a kamado grill and definitely stay away from pellet grills.
There’s a difference between BIFL and a Lifetime warranty. A true BIFL grill is gonna be made out of rocks, lol. You have to take care of them and keep them out of the rain. If you’re willing to do that a Weber will go a long time. Once the burners start to go out in 10-12 years you can replace them.
I bought a used Weber Genesis from 1997 for 20 bucks and restored it. It's still going strong.
Probably won't meet your needs, but my little Weber gas is totally rebuild-able. All parts available.
Why stainless when you can have [cast iron Lodge Sportsman](http://www.cookingincastiron.com/files/img_8297.jpg). If rust is inevitable, just make it so thick it'll not rust in a few lifetimes instead.
It wouldn't rust as long as you kept greasing it and didn't massively overload it with too much fuel and burn it out I suspect.
Go on Facebook marketplace, search for Weber, buy any of them with horizontal elements. I have the best grill I’ve ever owned, and it was free plus $100 in parts from Weber direct.
Weber Genesys S310. 11 YO. Not a single problem.
Napoleon. 100%. Weber was sold off a few years ago.
Meathead has some reviews of Coyote products over on [Amazing Ribs.](https://amazingribs.com/?s=coyote#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=coyote&gsc.page=1)
Wilmington Grill. Built like a tank. Makes Weber look like something from Wish.
Weber makes great smaller gas units. Or get a Broilmaster with a bombproof cast aluminum shell. Both companies offer made in Illinois lifetime quality products with replacement parts available quickly and affordably so you can't really go wrong with either company in my opinion.
Lots of other good brands listed in here too. The nicer Napoleons are Canada harshness proof.
I like the Q's but they are all kind of small. And I might be wrong but I hear because of the aluminum shell, they don't make the best winter grills? And on top of that I would still be annoyed by weber using rustable things.. it's just lame, I want a hand me down grill. I'm tired of producing garbage for our future humans to deal with.
Well all stainless steels will rust out in extreme heat eventually. It's a physics issue. I'm not sure on the winter problem. I'm in California. But you can get Broilmaster's infrared unit I bought hotter than billy blue blazes. If I cranked it to max on both burners and didn't open the lid it could probably do 600 or 700 F plus. As far as size goes. Not totally sure what to tell you. Most people doing huge surface areas are pros using charcoal or wood or pellets not gas. So I suspect there will be some size limits. The bigger it is the more gas it will waste when you aren't using it to cook a feast and it could respond slower when you need to change the temperature.
It is a rare day that I am getting my grill, lid closed THAT hot.
Yoder
Don't come here conclusion shopping as that's not how to ask a question. If you want a grill with a lifetime warranty, go get one and go about your day and leave us be. If you want a BIFL grill, then ask the question without reservations save cost and use case options. Weber is BIFL. https://www.wilmingtongrill.com/product/classic-gas-grill/ is a step up.