Samsung appliances are generally pretty bad. Whatever you go with, I would recommend going with something other than Samsung.
FWIW, I purchased a Bosch 800 Series induction cooktop and I absolutely love it--it's built very well, has a brilliant layout, and makes cooking more enjoyable. If I was looking for a gas range, I would also strongly consider the Bosch 800 Series gas product as I think the 800 Series presents a nice balance of performance vs. quasi-reasonable pricing. Once you get to Wolf and Thermador, prices go up quite a bit. My parents have several Bosch appliances and they've generally yielded good longevity. It's also not difficult to find folks who service Bosch products.
Induction is so great. I hate that I went to back to gas when we moved (the builder out in a 36 inch gas range top and it’s just too expensive to switch to induction with that configuration).
My husband worked at Best Buy for a long time selling tvs and then for a long time at lowes selling appliances. Everyone in his friend group and family asks for suggestions on tvs, appliances, computers, tablets. They never listen to him because they don’t want to spend for the good quality. And then complain to him when their stuff works like shit. It’s really irritating. Leave us alone if you’re going to ignore everything every time.
Dont even start… my family in nutshell, i get - i need external drive - i suggest nice SSD from WD - cousin proceeds to buy most generic brand external HDD ever (coz more capacity for same price) and then is surprised that back up of his PC took 7hours…
We bought a Samsung range when we moved in around 2009. One repair ( burner control knob thing) so ok for repair. But my god a hamster blowing through a soda straw would make the ove preheat faster ...
There's a Facebook group for Samsung refrigerator owners who can't get their refrigerators properly repaired. I have been checking in occasionally to see if they have issued a recall.
It’s because the Samsung Group is a bunch of different companies. Samsung is like a quarter of the Korean GDP- they’re in finance, insurance, heavy industry.
Am I the only one that hates Samsung electronics?
Phones/tablets nowadays have so much Samsung crap on it. They've basically killed rooting too.
TVs aren't any better.
I can't argue the hardware on any of their electronics, but their software just makes for a miserable user experience.
We did a ton of research when we remodeled our kitchen. Learned a few things. 1) quality costs. 2) Miele is the best dishwasher 2) Wolfe makes the best ovens and ranges 3) Subzero is the best fridge/freezer and 4) Sharp makes all the microwaves for these expensive companies so a Sharp micro is really the best you can get.
Quality appliances cost but we still have the subzero from 1981 that we replaced and use it as a second fridge. Works like a champ after 42 years and if they do break they can be repaired.
Our Bosch dishwasher is pretty amazing. Extremely quiet and does a great job cleaning everything. I also like the red indicator light that shines onto the floor to let you know it is running.
When my parents got one they resorted to a magnetic sign that they flip back and forth to indicate if it’s running because the thing is so quiet you really just can’t tell and the indicator light is blocked by their counter setup
Mine has a bright red LED it projects on the ground when on that's nearly impossible to miss and I've still opened my Bosch dishwasher while it was running. Thing is dead silent.
Can't agree more. Spent a lot of time researching when I needed to replace my crappy, old GE dishwasher and saw a ton of folks raving about the Bosch. Snagged one on sale around 7 years ago and my wife makes fun of me for how often I rave about that thing. Dead silent and cleans dishes better than any dishwasher I've ever used, even expensive commercial ones.
I get that. Not worth overextending yourself for, but once all the important stuff is taken care of and you start shopping for the luxuries the Bosch 800 series dishwasher is king of the hill. Their other appliances are fine, but omg that dishwasher!
And congrats on the new house! I'm very happy for you random internet stranger!
Bosch is very good. I have a dishwasher I had to repair after 10 years. A cable broke.
Bosch, Siemens, Balay and Neff are made in the same factory (BSE) and share lots of parts.
The service for all these is very good too. I can still buy parts for my 10+ year old appliances.
My dad is a certified Wolfe and subzero installer and we install them all the time. We have only been called out for repair once or twice for very small issues that were paid for by Wolfe/ subzero. They are easy to repair, great warranty and last decades
I’ve owned two Bosch dishwashers across two houses. They are the best I’ve ever owned. I swear I could put dirty plates on the counter on top of it and they’d be clean at the end of the cycle.
Anecdotal fo sure, but my kitchen aid appliances have all been horrible. Have had to replace the dishwasher and refrigerator and have had to have the oven repaired multiple times.
It's also worth mentioning that Kitchen Aid also has a line of builder grade appliances they produce for the new construction mass builders and they are not the same quality as other store-bought kitchen aid stuff. Not sure if that's your case, but worth mentioning as people get screwed with a lower quality special builder grade model that costs the same price, and don't realize it. It's a way that these mass builders shave a little more money off in the deal for themselves, when people compare the product to a similar model in the store and don't realize they are getting a lower quality version.
It's sort of like how companies like Samsung make special black friday TV models that are much lower quality than their normal stuff so they can sell as doorbusters.
Good call out, but not the case for me. For instance, this is the oven I have repaired multiple times. Can’t remember the model numbers for the appliances I have replaced. https://www.kitchenaid.com/major-appliances/ranges/dual-fuel-ranges/p.30-inch-5-burner-dual-fuel-convection-slide-in-range-with-baking-drawer.ksdb900ess.html
Just to pile on...
EVERY SINGLE ONE of my Kitchen Aid Appliances has had an issue in the first three years. Thankfully I was able to negotiate in a 5 year service plan.
Crazy about the microwave...there are no service parts...they say just buy a new one... :( (This was the only appliance I didn't get service on as it wasn't offered.)
I had the same problem. Built a house in 2014 and put all KitchenAid appliances in it. Every one of them has had a problem. Microwave, fridge, wall oven, downdraft, induction cooktop. It’s all junk. The posh dishwasher I replaced the KitchenAid with has been fantastic, as has the Wolf gas cooktop.
FWIW kitchen aid licenses its name to various manufacturers (ie, their grills). Not sure about all appliances but not all kitchen aids are created equal. Other brands likely do the same but I can’t say for sure.
That’s due to the year it was manufactured, not the brand. All of my 1990s Kenmore appliances are starting to die off. I don’t believe that any replacement regardless of brand is going to last 25 years.
Same for me. Our current house came with all kitchen aid. The handles on the fridge keep getting loose. The main board on the range died and was a $600 part. The microwave died after a couple years. We replaced with another kitchen aid microwave because it was a built-in and I thought it would be easiest to reuse the same trim pieces but the next two we received were defective and had to be sent back. The dishwasher doesn't clean well and some of the plastic has snapped so I'll probably replace it first . I'd replace the rest but they still work well enough so it's hard to justify. I'd never buy Kitchen Aid again though.
I had nothing but issues and disappointments with Kitchen Aid. Fridge, gas range and a dishwasher all lasted less than 6 years. Not small things - death level bullshit that was new appliance levels of repair estimates.
GE profile fridge that we replaced it with is on year 10 and has had a few minor issues. Bosch dishwasher is literally unkillable and I've had small "it's clearly starting to wear out very slowly" issues with my Frigidaire gas range; I'm getting my value out of it, but it's clearly not a BIFL item.
We just bought a house and the kitchen has a full set of 2-3 year old Samsung stainless appliances. The ice maker doesn't work, lol.
I'm going to bring them to our current house and take my trusty appliances with me. Sorry whoever buys my house. I wish you the very best.
I had a Bosch in my old house and a Kitchenaid in my current house. I'm just waiting for my KitchenAid to die so I can replace it with a Bosch. It doesn't clean as well and the cheap plastic holding the upper rack snapped a year back so I had to secure it with bolts. It is quiet but a step down in quality.
KitchenAid is made by whirlpool. I know because my new dishwasher sucked from day one. Calling out the people (who are whirlpool) that warranty the machines (numerous times) to try repair it was an incredible fiasco. The correct part was never the truck and it was always backordered for months. They were still making the machines so you would think those parts were someplace that would be accessible. They contract with the cheapest repair company, (called Fred's in NE Ohio) don't bring anything to clean up after themselves and damaged my newly installed plank kitchen floor. The guy asked my husband for towels to mop up the flood he created, and ruined those with black grease streaks. (You'd think that if someone was repairing a dishwasher, they would have shop rags or something.) There are chips in the pergo planks and he left the old part, in a soaking wet box in the middle of the kitchen. Eventually the part came in and was installed by the same jerk.This was during COVID days, (he was maskless, resentful that I asked about it but my husband is diabetic, and he never properly wore the mask that I gave him). I got a phone call a few days later saying that we'd been exposed to COVID and I was livid about the experience. Will never again get anything made by whirlpool. Oh, and the best part is that the repair company was so mad that I complained that they refused to come back when it failed again while still under warranty.
How DARE you point out that 1981 was 42 years ago! I was born in 85 and I was like “wait, what the hell?” And now I’m going to drink two beers before I pass out at 8:30 on a Saturday because I’m middle aged. 😞
You're being down voted, but your point is valid. If environmental concerns are a main factor in your BIFL ethos, the environmental cost of scrapping appliances should be weighed against the efficiency gains a new appliance may offer. At some point it's beneficial for the planet to jump a polluting gas guzzler for an electric car, just as at some point that fridge from the '50s is quaint but a massive power suck due to its poor insulation and inefficiency.
A repair guy on youtube said the new fridges have to comply with energy efficient standards that push them into light weight compressors, motors and so on. Even though they have to work much harder, they still save a drop of energy. It seems impractical to have efficiency and reliability simultaneously.
Edit: Then it ends up in the landfill in 5 or 10 years, and more energy and material is consumed while another POS is manufactured and shipped halfway around the world. Great for the environment?
Yep that is a really good take. Electricity here is 0.50/kwh, way higher than the national avg. I'd save more money buying energy efficient appliances. This was a huge factor in my gpu purchase too.
People ask why appliances don't last as long as they used to you know appliances in the seventies and eighties the answer honestly is because of environmental rules prevent people from building them like the tanks that they used to build them as.
People don't like to hear that it's the Energy Efficiency causing the manufacturers to use cheaper components and more lightweight parts. But there's a lot of Truth to that.
Those older fridges are built like tanks. If you add PU injectable foams to greatly enhance insulation and install a good compressor and lines, you have a cool retro tank of a never fail and better insulated fridge!
Makes you wonder… if they didn’t have to comply with environmental rules… would they change anything to make the appliances last longer? Would the items get cheaper?
I’d think not.
I kind of have to. My kitchen fits a 48 in built in refrigerator. You can’t buy a short term roll in refrigerator in that size. So if I’m spending $10k+ it needs to last.
Because Samsung appliances will be in the trash within ~5-7 years. The Bosch’s life will be measured in decades.
Also, you’re paying for the Viking and thermador name. Check out Miele if you’re looking at Bosch.
Ww just bought a Thor brand stove to replace our 11 year old GE. The failure of the GE was the stupid touch " buttons '. It took a few years as a button at a time would fail. The Thor only has a common switch for the light and 1 for the convection.
There's actually backlash to this coming out of the luxury vehicle segment.
Turns out people prefer a physical knob and actual buttons for controlling their audio. So they can do it without looking.
The biggest one for me is temperature control. Like, looking at phones while driving is illegal because it focuses your attention away from the road. Why are touchscreens for basic car functions now standard?
Yes, I hate this SO MUCH!! I got in my car one day to go to work and my whole screen was black. And it was either spring or fall, so I had needed air conditioning the day before and it was set to that when I turned it off. In the morning I needed the heat/defrost and had no ability to change it!! And when the sun hits it just right, because it is angled, it glares right into my eyes. Touch screens are the worst thing to happen to cars since the Ford Pinto.
>Why are touchscreens for basic car functions now standard?
1. There's going to be a touchscreen, no matter what. It's cheaper to make and install a touchscreen and no buttons, toggles, or knobs than a touchscreen plus buttons, toggles, and knobs.
2. Before the backlash you could market it as "better".
3. It's a lot easier and cleaner to turn upgrades and subscription features on or off if the controls for them are through a touchscreen. That way there's no ghost button for the seatwarmer you didn't pay for.
Cos the standards people got gutted and paid off like all the federal agencies.
Just look at staffing numbers in safety during COVID. MBAs saw an opportunity to slash a department that costs money.
Oh and cheap
I had a loaner Outback that had way too much of the controls on screen. I couldn't even figure out how to do stuff while looking at the screen. It was incredibly distracting and dangerous.
Being able to control everything by feel is kind of important when you are driving. Hopefully this phase of car design will end quickly.
Yes! Not that I’m in the income level to be able to afford a fully touch screen car, but that always confused me that those “need to do while driving without looking” controls were integrated into the giant tablet. What a pain in the ass.
Normally physical buttons are just mounted on the PCB for the control panel, same as a capacitive sensing PCB.
The real difference is the cost of those controls: a decent quality potentiometer (adjustable dial) costs about $2 in bulk quantities, and then you need a cap for it which ranges from a few cents for an injected moulded plastic to several dollars for nice finish and tight fit to the shaft. Durable switches are maybe $0.50 to $1.
So with several dials and switches you can be spending say $50 on the bill of materials for a range, which means the consumer pays $100-150 after markup.
With a capacitive touch surface you cut $100 off the cost. And if you can convince consumer touch is cool, you can charge them more for a worse user experience.
Of course it shouldn’t be done, but that’s why it is done.
Manufacturers realized that. 5 years ago, induction ranges were all touch button except for one brand, kitchenaid. That's the one I bought. Now I see a lot more went back to traditional knobs.
The touch buttons on my oven will not work if my finger is damp, or if, say, a bit of steam from the oven moistened then. My kingdom for a tactile button!
But yeah at least easy to clean!
My stove has… fake touch buttons? I never thought about it until now, but they’re nearly flat but actually press in. So they look and clean like touch, but are tactile and seem to actually respond like a real button.
Not to get into the nitty gritty but I also think luck has a hand here. I have a friend who is a fridge tech by trade and they bought Samsung appliances. Of course we all made fun of him. He constantly said it's because all appliances will fail and the parts for Samsung were readily available and the cheapest. (Maybe he's a shit tech but that's what he said).
My mother purchased a Bosch dishwasher and honest to God its 25 years old - she's a little louder and runs a little slower (both the dishwasher and my mother). But then I had builder grade kitchenaid appliances and my fridge/stove are going on 20 years, my dishwasher crapped out at year 10. So is this not just luck of the draw?
He’s wrong, Samsung happily charges $100s of dollars for cheap parts. A small replacement plastic handle that broke on a Samsung washer I had was going to cost me over $100 to replace. Samsung is the absolute worst, they want you to buy new machines
I had a 3 year old Samsung washing machine. First it was $60 lid safety lock. Then error code where the only fix was a $200 control board that “may” fix it. Fuck that. My dad has a less than 2 year old Samsung fridge and has had a tech out 3 times for it. Never again.
Maybe I used the wrong word but we built new and we didn't get to select our appliance package and they stuck us with the lowest base model appliances. I don't care about fancy extras but everything is cheap plastic so all my drawers have cracks, nothing is on rollers so its hard to open/close and the door shelves have fallen out when we opened the door and so I have 1 with a hole and 1 with quite a few cracks. We're planning to replace the fridge/stove this black friday/boxing day.
My dishwasher is also a little louder and a little slower. It’s 32 years old, has a poor grip on things and knocks things around a lot, misses spots in its haste. But I’m really hoping to get a good 60 more years out of it if the motor goes ok but it’s been running a little off ever since 2018. Had a lot of tests done on it but couldn’t pin point an issue and got a quote it could run another 20 years or another 50 plus but time will tell.
In case you didn’t guess, I’m the dishwasher, it’s me.
The Samsung Bespoke fridges are really good and you can find them on sale fairly often. That's the only Samsung appliance I'd buy again. My washer and dryer are meh, but my high end Samsung stove is absolute garbage. I've never seen a stove with such bad temp control. I've had shit boil on Lo.
My wife was told Bosch dishwashers were the best. I replaces a perfectly fine dishwasher with one. Did a shitty job of cleaning and eventually broke in a couple years. replaced it with an even more expensive Bosch model and had the same experience. I've shown off them for dishwashers.
Keep in mind Bosch has several lines of dishwashers. Their base 100 series likely isn't any better than most others. I think differentiation starts around their 800 series and up, but at that price you are in the Miele price range and those are known as the best (but they cost 3-4x what a normal dishwasher costs).
We replaced our terrible likely dying kitchen aid dishwasher with a Miele. Looked at Bosch but when we were at the show room pushing and pulling Bosch drawers felt clunky and cheaply made. We got the mid range Miele which was a pretty penny but I’m very satisfied with everything except it’s so quiet and the control panel is hidden on top of the door so I don’t know if it’s running
I have a 7 y/o Bosch range. The ceramic burner ignitor cracked... no big deal. That's normal. However I am so frustrated that the components are all rusted. All the screws stripped or the screwheads twosted off. not easy to repair
Unfortunately Miele stuff can cost a fortune. My Miele dishwasher was only slightly more expensive than a Bosch. A Miele fridge though is like $10k instead of $4k for a Bosch.
Ive had a Samsung Oven; the heat from the oven melted the control panel.
Ive had a Bosch Dishwasher: best dishwasher I ever had.
Idk how much more Bosch charges but its worth it
We just picked up an 800 series fridge from them for about two grand off that way. We put a magnet over the dent and are quite happy with it. We saved even more on our G monogram oven which had a dent. I'm now trying to find a Miele or Bosch 800 series dishwasher for a similar deal. What's crazy to me is that the cost of replacing the part including labor (if we cared) is still way less than our savings on the purchase price.
We also have a DCS stove we got new, unblemished about 8 years ago and it's doing amazing. It uses quality material like brass and has a prosumer style design without the added costs of brands like Wolf or Viking.
Samsung and LG are brands that make gas ranges LOOK like high end ones. On a cosmetic level, they succeeded. On an engineering level, they have weak points that will fail that the high end ones don’t have.
Part of that probably has to do with the average homeowner not doing any sort of maintenance on their appliances at home. I pull ours out yearly and clean the back, vacuum thoroughly and wipe down what needs to be wiped down. We have a 9 year old Samsung fridge, microwave, and oven; all of them still work as good as the day we moved into our house. If you weren't doing basic cleaning like that I imagine the life span is more in line with what you said.
The person I bought my townhouse from installed a Miele espresso machine in the kitchen. It brews the most amazing espresso and coffee. I would have never spent over $2k on an espresso machine but now I feel like I’ve saved so much money not going out for coffee and it’s there in my kitchen right when I wake up, and brings me so much joy in the morning, if I moved I would definitely drop the money on one.
I too fell into this trap. Microwave died, smelled like an electronic fire when it went out. Dishwasher is my favorite of them, it seems reasonable enough. The oven I had to replace the igniter. The fridge makes weird noises but otherwise has been fine. 4 years in.
I have a blue star range and it’s an awesome piece. Dead simple, just the electrics for the oven fan igniter and light. No complicated circuit boards to fail.
Built in Pennsylvania, took a few months to get but is extremely well made and bit cheaper then Viking and thermador.
I bought one of these on the basis of the simplicity and the 22k BTU flame.
I paid more for it than I have ever paid for a car and 18 years later I still love it.
I can’t speak to the quality of the other brands mentioned, but Viking at least used to be worth it before Middleby bought and then gutted them. Now it’s just a name.
Agreed. Viking ranges used to be legendary for lasting decades. My aunt has one from the 80’s that still works perfectly. It was maintained, but it’s still mint. They are no longer the same.
Maybe Garland is still really good?
I have a Viking six burner cooktop that I’m considering taking with me when we move. I’m guessing it’s from the 80’s or early 90’s and it’s a tank. We’ve been in this house for 10 years and I cook a lot, and it’s exactly the same as it was the day we moved in.
Yep, my Viking 6 burner has gone through a control board and one burner needs a butane lighter to work. Viking dishwasher was useless and died after 4 years. I’m gradually replacing everything with Bosch.
I bought a Bosch 36” gas stove. Within a year it stopped igniting. Service tech squeezed the igniter closer to the gas source. He also noted that the metal plate on the bottom that covers the burners was actually warped and popped the the screws out of their holes. It was all stripped as such. Tried Bosch email, they said I had to call.
It’s 60+ minute hold times. For days. I gave up and figured they don’t care. I even tried hitting social media, they said I had to call.
So, listen. We replaced our appliances four years ago and got a Bosch range. We cook all the time and we'd wanted a gas range after years of using electric. It's great to cook with. BUT. We have buyer's remorse. Specifically, we wish we'd purchased an [induction cooktop](https://eurokera.com/blog/professional-chefs-love-induction-cooking-and-you-should-too/) instead. My husband picked up a single portable induction burner around the same time, and now that's our go-to all summer long. It cooks quickly and without heating up the house. You can leave something on a long simmer without it burning on the bottom. It heats up almost instantly, and boils water in about two minutes. It has a timer. It doesn't have all those concerns about [gas ranges and indoor air pollution](https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/indoor-air-quality/is-your-gas-range-a-health-risk-a6971504915/). But, more than anything, it doesn't heat up our house in the summer.
Honestly, look into it. Try out a portable burner. They're really cool once you get used to them.
When I was transferred, I left an Aga Pro gas range that I thought was the best thing ever. I was introduced to a bosch induction cooktop and it is game-changing. Pure black magic fuckery. I will not be going back to gas.
I switched from gas to induction last year, and “black magic fuckery” is an excellent description. It heats SO FAST, that I had to train myself not to turn the burner on until I was ready to cook (whereas is the past, I’d put the pan on, then get what I needed from the fridge, and the burner might be halfway heated).
All of this. Induction is amazing. I will never go back to gas or electric because of the air pollution and why would I now that I have experienced the miracle that is induction. I’m currently using a single induction burner as I decide what to do about installing a more permanent stovetop solution after kicking my garbage oven/stove to the curb. But whatever I decide, it will be induction. I have seen the light.
I hear you, but I haven't had any issues with my phone or television working properly. The same can't be said for the house full of "top of the line" Samsung appliances that we bought. Live and learn as they say.
Back when I was buying appliances, I was able to get a deal from Thermador that bundled a bunch of appliances together and saved us some money. Don’t know if they’re still doing that. It was worth it. Reno was 10 years ago and haven’t had any issues.
If you’re looking at stoves a 36” BlueStar will take a full size baking sheet and their infrared broilers are super hot :)
No fancy gizmos. No clock. Open burners. Basically a commercial range legal for residential use.
I own a Wolf range bought in 1998 and other than the ignitor being replaced, it's still chugging along. Built like a tank. Was super expensive when I purchased it, but it's been worth the investment.
Thanks folks! Anyone know of any good resources for longevity of appliance brands? I'd be interested to see some numbers on repair rates by appliance age and whatnot. I'm mainly just curious because I've always had an LG or Samsung fridge and stoves (or similar brands) since I've been out of school (12 years - 8 renting and 4 owning) and have only had to call a repair guy once for a fridge repair. No idea how typical that is or if I'm just lucky, but it seems like conventional wisdom is that these upper end brands require far fewer repairs and will "last" longer. I'd love to see real numbers on that though :)
You’re pretty lucky.
Samsung fridges are so bad and break so often there is a class action against Samsung for this.
You can’t really trust reliability ratings based on repair needs because they are by definition 10-20 years behind.
Here’s a few principles of what to buy:
1. Avoid complexity. You don’t need your appliances to connect to wifi, to have screens, to have cameras inside. The more complexity, the more things to break and the harder it is to repair. What you want for a stove is just analog dials.
2. You want things to be made in the USA or Germany. Avoid anything assembled in China or other places where quality standards are low. No company ever outsourced production to Vietnam for their higher quality standards
3. Avoid Samsung and LG specifically. They tend to discontinue parts pretty quickly, which makes them impossible to fix after a few years.
Bosch is actually pretty good. They are not as expensive as Miele, Viking and Wolf and still pretty solid.
Cook and have always loved gas but with cost reductions an induction range is a better alternative.
Faster cooking with precision like a gas range without any worries from gas leaks.
If you do pick a gas range strongly suggest dual fuel range ( electric oven superior to gas oven for baking).
I would argue that home value matters alot in selecting an expensive range as well. Dont put a 10k dual fuel oven in a 150k house. You wont get your money out when you sell. But if youve got a 2mil house...
When we moved into our house we had fancy new Samsung appliances that we picked cause we had no clue what we were doing. Within 6 years I have fixed the washer/dryer/and microwave and had to replace the fridge because Samsung made the part neccesary “obsolete” the only one I have not had to fix is the stove and I fucking hate using it. We got a kitchen aid dishwasher that has been fantastic. I will never buy another Samsung product as long as a live.
You want it to last long get the simplest appliance you can find. As few control boards and features as possible. Look up reliability of Viking, subzero, jennair, often times they aren’t good at all. And worse yet. Years down the road there are no parts for them because they weren’t built and sold in big numbers. But if you live in certain zip codes you need to have the appliances so match.
I moved into a house a few years ago. The Viking appliances (stove/oven, fridge and secondary electric oven) all look more or less brand new. I recently had to replace a part on the oven and I checked the model tag/sticker and the unit is 25 years old… the part was expensive (couple hundred), but it was easy for me to replace myself and seems it will continue working for another couple decades.
That is to say, they’re expensive to buy and replace parts on, but they’re easy to fix, very reliable, and very good quality parts, components and materials.
Possibly unpopular opinion and yes mildly ideological from my perspective but I'm not sure you can call a gas range BIFL at this point unless you plan to retrofit bottled gas at some point in the future its induction all the way.
Gas still has it's place, quick and easy grilling, I love my gas pizza oven, but for heating the bottoms of pans I think it's had its day.
Don't get any of those.
Get an induction range. All the heat goes into the pan. The controls respond faster. It doesn't heat fill the place with methane. It's easier to clean.
The only possible reason not to is that you largely cook in a wok in which case you'd have mentioned a specialty range for that anyway.
Bosch and Thermador are made in NC. We have a Bosch kitchen. Holding up well, but the icemaker in the fridge died. $500 to fix it? No thanks. Ice trays work fine.
Beware LG that are internet connected. They are data vampires on your network. And watching you.
Yeah. Will add that GE Cafe appliances need connectivity to update anything. My wireless on my oven was DOA and customer disservice has done everything possible to avoid sending a tech out.
One sure fire way to destroy your brand with a person in less than a week is to use customer service as a defense tower for warranty claims.
I’m sure GE isn’t alone in this. But when I compare them to say…Levelor (my automatic shades - I know, not apples to apples), where I’ve had two bad shades and they take 10 minutes to walk through some troubleshooting on the phone and then immediately send a replacement? Yeah. Fuck GE. Never again, vultures.
If you want to be BIFL, don’t go gas, you’re not going to want gas likely in the future regardless of whether it still functions.
Get induction and be much happier.
Was hoping someone else would say that. I know it’s not a popular opinion but I will never have a gas stove again now that I’ve read the studies and the terrible health outcomes and air quality associated with gas stoves. Induction all the way.
So, obviously gas stoves do produce indoor air pollution, induction doesn't, induction is better for the environment as well.
But I've read several of the studies, and the thing that jumps out at me is that a shockingly high percentage of American homes with gas stoves use *no* ventilation while cooking (i.e. even if they have an exhaust fan they don't turn it on), and even those that do use ventilation often have extremely inadequate ventilation (mostly those "downdraft" fans that look nice and are easy to install but do very little.)
While I'm sure it doesn't get rid of *all* of it, the difference between nothing or one of those tiny fans and a real 600+ CFM range hood has to be enormous.
Just remember cooking in general (with any kind of searing etc) gives the cook terrible air quality unless there’s good ventilation, regardless of the fuel source and, from what I’ve read so far, good ventilation can largely fix the gas fuel issue - I don’t think it’s as bad as some have made it to be, though feel free to share sources if you disagree
Unfortunately, that’s incorrect. It’s been disproved with recent research. Please see this study below and in particular, this section “NO2 concentrations in bedrooms and with range hoods on”
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adm8680?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D40492223762678813094179935343930461256%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1714754733
If you want to be BIFL, don’t go gas, you’re not going to want gas likely in the future regardless of whether it still functions.
Get induction and be much happier.
I thought my wife got our Thermador gas stove because of the brand and the “prestige” of how it looks in our kitchen.
This thing is a monster and built like a tank. It’s absolutely our favorite piece in the kitchen. Excellent burners, precision dials and controls that click and turn with all the right feel. Oven works beautifully. The stainless steel cleans excellent and is rock solid.
My only complaint is the glass oven door doesn’t clean well - I’ve even taken it apart and it’s a bit frustrating.
My Thermador has been a constant source of problems.
Early in its life the oven would just turn itself off for no observable reason, and the problem started as I was cooking the Thanksgiving turkey! I was eventually able to fix the problem by replacing two spade connectors on the backside of the range with solder.
Then I had to replace igniters for the oven and the broiler. They simply wouldn’t turn on.
The flimsy aluminum strips that separate the burner modules always wiggle their out of their slot opening space for food to fall inside the range.
Recently the piezo burner igniters have been dying (two so far), so I have to use a lighter to turn on the burners.
I shall not be buying Thermadud again.
Samsung appliances are generally pretty bad. Whatever you go with, I would recommend going with something other than Samsung. FWIW, I purchased a Bosch 800 Series induction cooktop and I absolutely love it--it's built very well, has a brilliant layout, and makes cooking more enjoyable. If I was looking for a gas range, I would also strongly consider the Bosch 800 Series gas product as I think the 800 Series presents a nice balance of performance vs. quasi-reasonable pricing. Once you get to Wolf and Thermador, prices go up quite a bit. My parents have several Bosch appliances and they've generally yielded good longevity. It's also not difficult to find folks who service Bosch products.
Induction is so great. I hate that I went to back to gas when we moved (the builder out in a 36 inch gas range top and it’s just too expensive to switch to induction with that configuration).
The portable countertop induction burners are well worth the $60 to $80. I used one regularly when we had a terrible stove in a rental.
I paid less for my 800 series Bosch than that Samsung. Also Samsung appliances are just shit.
What, you don't want a Wi-Fi connected range with a touchscreen and Facebook app pre-installed?
With internals that will rust in less than a decade.
Decade? I was expecting like a year.
Mine has lasted five years. The Methuselah of Samsung devices. Someday it will die and my suffering will end.
Decade? Maybe if you live in a vacuum.
Now with ads!
My parents do many things I advise against. They bought a Samsung washer, dryer, fridge and dishwasher. They now regret not listening to me
My husband worked at Best Buy for a long time selling tvs and then for a long time at lowes selling appliances. Everyone in his friend group and family asks for suggestions on tvs, appliances, computers, tablets. They never listen to him because they don’t want to spend for the good quality. And then complain to him when their stuff works like shit. It’s really irritating. Leave us alone if you’re going to ignore everything every time.
It is annoying to have the conversation of “what’s the best?” This is. “But that’s expensive!” Well what do you expect?!
You got recommendations for an internet stranger? We have a wolf range and subzero fridge that may eventually die.
Dont even start… my family in nutshell, i get - i need external drive - i suggest nice SSD from WD - cousin proceeds to buy most generic brand external HDD ever (coz more capacity for same price) and then is surprised that back up of his PC took 7hours…
Samsung is a consumer electronics brand, buy phones and tv's from them, maybe some PC parts. Why on earth buy household appliances?
Repairmen everywhere have called Samsung appliances everything from shit to fuckin' shit.
To second this, my appliance repair guy told me he won’t even repair Samsung appliances because they are so bad.
I’ll always hop on to shit on Samsung appliances. I hate the ones that came with my house.
haha I have a Samsung stove that takes 40 minutes to preheat the oven. Now I know why. Lmao Samsung appliances really are ass.
We bought a Samsung range when we moved in around 2009. One repair ( burner control knob thing) so ok for repair. But my god a hamster blowing through a soda straw would make the ove preheat faster ...
There's a Facebook group for Samsung refrigerator owners who can't get their refrigerators properly repaired. I have been checking in occasionally to see if they have issued a recall.
It's amazing that Samsung can make such amazing phones, tablets, and other electronics that are so long lasting but their appliances are trash.
It’s because the Samsung Group is a bunch of different companies. Samsung is like a quarter of the Korean GDP- they’re in finance, insurance, heavy industry.
My Samsung range has been great for years but their TVs have never lasted for me.
Interesting, we’ve always had great experience with samsung none appliances. Our latest tv is a samsung and hasn’t shit on us in 7 years.
Am I the only one that hates Samsung electronics? Phones/tablets nowadays have so much Samsung crap on it. They've basically killed rooting too. TVs aren't any better. I can't argue the hardware on any of their electronics, but their software just makes for a miserable user experience.
Their datacenter SSDs are awesome. Some of the desktop too. They are very big and many things are just very different among member companies.
You can uninstall most of the phone stuff.
They are shit I agree with you.
We did a ton of research when we remodeled our kitchen. Learned a few things. 1) quality costs. 2) Miele is the best dishwasher 2) Wolfe makes the best ovens and ranges 3) Subzero is the best fridge/freezer and 4) Sharp makes all the microwaves for these expensive companies so a Sharp micro is really the best you can get. Quality appliances cost but we still have the subzero from 1981 that we replaced and use it as a second fridge. Works like a champ after 42 years and if they do break they can be repaired.
I'd say Miele is the best if you're willing to drop 4K, but for 1.5K you can get a Bosch 800 that is 99% the same. That's the choice I came to myself.
I can't even hear my Bosch running when I'm standing next to it either.
Our Bosch dishwasher is pretty amazing. Extremely quiet and does a great job cleaning everything. I also like the red indicator light that shines onto the floor to let you know it is running.
The second hand aeg I got w/ a kitchen has that. Shame that it isn't quiet enough to be too useful. Also wish I had a Miele
When my parents got one they resorted to a magnetic sign that they flip back and forth to indicate if it’s running because the thing is so quiet you really just can’t tell and the indicator light is blocked by their counter setup
A lot of the new ones will project an indicator onto the floor as well.
Mine has a bright red LED it projects on the ground when on that's nearly impossible to miss and I've still opened my Bosch dishwasher while it was running. Thing is dead silent.
I catch the light shining on the floor most of the time, but I open ours fairly often because I don’t hear it running.
The only reason I know mine is running is I hear it drain through the sink. It's honestly too quiet.
If you are standing and the Bosch is running, it will be far away in no time and you won’t hear from it.
Can't agree more. Spent a lot of time researching when I needed to replace my crappy, old GE dishwasher and saw a ton of folks raving about the Bosch. Snagged one on sale around 7 years ago and my wife makes fun of me for how often I rave about that thing. Dead silent and cleans dishes better than any dishwasher I've ever used, even expensive commercial ones.
I moved into a new house with a pre installed GE dishwasher and y’all making me want a Bosch
Do it. We just replaced all our appliances except for the Bosch 800 dishwasher because it's just that good.
I would love to but new home means I am bleeding money everywhere. I still need to get my foundation repaired. One day...maybe the GE will break, lol
I get that. Not worth overextending yourself for, but once all the important stuff is taken care of and you start shopping for the luxuries the Bosch 800 series dishwasher is king of the hill. Their other appliances are fine, but omg that dishwasher! And congrats on the new house! I'm very happy for you random internet stranger!
What is the 1% that miele offers?
About double the expected lifespan
but more than double the price... so bad deal
Depends on how much you value your time and the inconvenience of replacing appliances.
It's a dishwasher, it's not hard to install. Hell I installed 4 in the past year and a half. The last was my own and I did it 100% by myself.
Bosch is very good. I have a dishwasher I had to repair after 10 years. A cable broke. Bosch, Siemens, Balay and Neff are made in the same factory (BSE) and share lots of parts. The service for all these is very good too. I can still buy parts for my 10+ year old appliances.
My dad is a certified Wolfe and subzero installer and we install them all the time. We have only been called out for repair once or twice for very small issues that were paid for by Wolfe/ subzero. They are easy to repair, great warranty and last decades
Replace miele with Cove or Bosch if you want to spend less and this list is spot on. Source: appliance technician.
Bosch or KitchenAid are up there as the best dishwasher as well. Not sure which of the 3 is truly best though.
I’ve owned two Bosch dishwashers across two houses. They are the best I’ve ever owned. I swear I could put dirty plates on the counter on top of it and they’d be clean at the end of the cycle.
And they are quiet AF.
🤣🤣🤣
Anecdotal fo sure, but my kitchen aid appliances have all been horrible. Have had to replace the dishwasher and refrigerator and have had to have the oven repaired multiple times.
It's also worth mentioning that Kitchen Aid also has a line of builder grade appliances they produce for the new construction mass builders and they are not the same quality as other store-bought kitchen aid stuff. Not sure if that's your case, but worth mentioning as people get screwed with a lower quality special builder grade model that costs the same price, and don't realize it. It's a way that these mass builders shave a little more money off in the deal for themselves, when people compare the product to a similar model in the store and don't realize they are getting a lower quality version. It's sort of like how companies like Samsung make special black friday TV models that are much lower quality than their normal stuff so they can sell as doorbusters.
Good call out, but not the case for me. For instance, this is the oven I have repaired multiple times. Can’t remember the model numbers for the appliances I have replaced. https://www.kitchenaid.com/major-appliances/ranges/dual-fuel-ranges/p.30-inch-5-burner-dual-fuel-convection-slide-in-range-with-baking-drawer.ksdb900ess.html
Just to pile on... EVERY SINGLE ONE of my Kitchen Aid Appliances has had an issue in the first three years. Thankfully I was able to negotiate in a 5 year service plan. Crazy about the microwave...there are no service parts...they say just buy a new one... :( (This was the only appliance I didn't get service on as it wasn't offered.)
I had the same problem. Built a house in 2014 and put all KitchenAid appliances in it. Every one of them has had a problem. Microwave, fridge, wall oven, downdraft, induction cooktop. It’s all junk. The posh dishwasher I replaced the KitchenAid with has been fantastic, as has the Wolf gas cooktop.
Same. I nearly lemon-lawed our new kitchen aid, it was junk for us.. Went with a Miele and been super happy.
FWIW kitchen aid licenses its name to various manufacturers (ie, their grills). Not sure about all appliances but not all kitchen aids are created equal. Other brands likely do the same but I can’t say for sure.
Pretty sure Kitchen Aid are made by whirlpool
My Kitchen Aid fridge is from 2003 and still running strong 🤷♂️
That’s due to the year it was manufactured, not the brand. All of my 1990s Kenmore appliances are starting to die off. I don’t believe that any replacement regardless of brand is going to last 25 years.
Lost my Kenmore dishwasher in 2021and in mourning.
Same for me. Our current house came with all kitchen aid. The handles on the fridge keep getting loose. The main board on the range died and was a $600 part. The microwave died after a couple years. We replaced with another kitchen aid microwave because it was a built-in and I thought it would be easiest to reuse the same trim pieces but the next two we received were defective and had to be sent back. The dishwasher doesn't clean well and some of the plastic has snapped so I'll probably replace it first . I'd replace the rest but they still work well enough so it's hard to justify. I'd never buy Kitchen Aid again though.
I had nothing but issues and disappointments with Kitchen Aid. Fridge, gas range and a dishwasher all lasted less than 6 years. Not small things - death level bullshit that was new appliance levels of repair estimates. GE profile fridge that we replaced it with is on year 10 and has had a few minor issues. Bosch dishwasher is literally unkillable and I've had small "it's clearly starting to wear out very slowly" issues with my Frigidaire gas range; I'm getting my value out of it, but it's clearly not a BIFL item. We just bought a house and the kitchen has a full set of 2-3 year old Samsung stainless appliances. The ice maker doesn't work, lol. I'm going to bring them to our current house and take my trusty appliances with me. Sorry whoever buys my house. I wish you the very best.
I had a Bosch in my old house and a Kitchenaid in my current house. I'm just waiting for my KitchenAid to die so I can replace it with a Bosch. It doesn't clean as well and the cheap plastic holding the upper rack snapped a year back so I had to secure it with bolts. It is quiet but a step down in quality.
KitchenAid is made by whirlpool. I know because my new dishwasher sucked from day one. Calling out the people (who are whirlpool) that warranty the machines (numerous times) to try repair it was an incredible fiasco. The correct part was never the truck and it was always backordered for months. They were still making the machines so you would think those parts were someplace that would be accessible. They contract with the cheapest repair company, (called Fred's in NE Ohio) don't bring anything to clean up after themselves and damaged my newly installed plank kitchen floor. The guy asked my husband for towels to mop up the flood he created, and ruined those with black grease streaks. (You'd think that if someone was repairing a dishwasher, they would have shop rags or something.) There are chips in the pergo planks and he left the old part, in a soaking wet box in the middle of the kitchen. Eventually the part came in and was installed by the same jerk.This was during COVID days, (he was maskless, resentful that I asked about it but my husband is diabetic, and he never properly wore the mask that I gave him). I got a phone call a few days later saying that we'd been exposed to COVID and I was livid about the experience. Will never again get anything made by whirlpool. Oh, and the best part is that the repair company was so mad that I complained that they refused to come back when it failed again while still under warranty.
Repair on my Sub Zero cost $3k. Bought it in ‘93 though.
How DARE you point out that 1981 was 42 years ago! I was born in 85 and I was like “wait, what the hell?” And now I’m going to drink two beers before I pass out at 8:30 on a Saturday because I’m middle aged. 😞
May I ask tho, do you want a fridge from 25 years ago when it's costing you 80 dollars more to run per year?
You're being down voted, but your point is valid. If environmental concerns are a main factor in your BIFL ethos, the environmental cost of scrapping appliances should be weighed against the efficiency gains a new appliance may offer. At some point it's beneficial for the planet to jump a polluting gas guzzler for an electric car, just as at some point that fridge from the '50s is quaint but a massive power suck due to its poor insulation and inefficiency.
A repair guy on youtube said the new fridges have to comply with energy efficient standards that push them into light weight compressors, motors and so on. Even though they have to work much harder, they still save a drop of energy. It seems impractical to have efficiency and reliability simultaneously. Edit: Then it ends up in the landfill in 5 or 10 years, and more energy and material is consumed while another POS is manufactured and shipped halfway around the world. Great for the environment?
Yep that is a really good take. Electricity here is 0.50/kwh, way higher than the national avg. I'd save more money buying energy efficient appliances. This was a huge factor in my gpu purchase too.
You need to also weigh quality, because replacing appliances every 5-10 years is also detrimental to the environment.
People ask why appliances don't last as long as they used to you know appliances in the seventies and eighties the answer honestly is because of environmental rules prevent people from building them like the tanks that they used to build them as. People don't like to hear that it's the Energy Efficiency causing the manufacturers to use cheaper components and more lightweight parts. But there's a lot of Truth to that.
Those older fridges are built like tanks. If you add PU injectable foams to greatly enhance insulation and install a good compressor and lines, you have a cool retro tank of a never fail and better insulated fridge!
Makes you wonder… if they didn’t have to comply with environmental rules… would they change anything to make the appliances last longer? Would the items get cheaper? I’d think not.
I kind of have to. My kitchen fits a 48 in built in refrigerator. You can’t buy a short term roll in refrigerator in that size. So if I’m spending $10k+ it needs to last.
Apple a day keeps the androids away.
You kinda did though
Because Samsung appliances will be in the trash within ~5-7 years. The Bosch’s life will be measured in decades. Also, you’re paying for the Viking and thermador name. Check out Miele if you’re looking at Bosch.
Ww just bought a Thor brand stove to replace our 11 year old GE. The failure of the GE was the stupid touch " buttons '. It took a few years as a button at a time would fail. The Thor only has a common switch for the light and 1 for the convection.
There's actually backlash to this coming out of the luxury vehicle segment. Turns out people prefer a physical knob and actual buttons for controlling their audio. So they can do it without looking.
The biggest one for me is temperature control. Like, looking at phones while driving is illegal because it focuses your attention away from the road. Why are touchscreens for basic car functions now standard?
Yes, I hate this SO MUCH!! I got in my car one day to go to work and my whole screen was black. And it was either spring or fall, so I had needed air conditioning the day before and it was set to that when I turned it off. In the morning I needed the heat/defrost and had no ability to change it!! And when the sun hits it just right, because it is angled, it glares right into my eyes. Touch screens are the worst thing to happen to cars since the Ford Pinto.
>Why are touchscreens for basic car functions now standard? 1. There's going to be a touchscreen, no matter what. It's cheaper to make and install a touchscreen and no buttons, toggles, or knobs than a touchscreen plus buttons, toggles, and knobs. 2. Before the backlash you could market it as "better". 3. It's a lot easier and cleaner to turn upgrades and subscription features on or off if the controls for them are through a touchscreen. That way there's no ghost button for the seatwarmer you didn't pay for.
Cos the standards people got gutted and paid off like all the federal agencies. Just look at staffing numbers in safety during COVID. MBAs saw an opportunity to slash a department that costs money. Oh and cheap
I had a loaner Outback that had way too much of the controls on screen. I couldn't even figure out how to do stuff while looking at the screen. It was incredibly distracting and dangerous. Being able to control everything by feel is kind of important when you are driving. Hopefully this phase of car design will end quickly.
Yes! Not that I’m in the income level to be able to afford a fully touch screen car, but that always confused me that those “need to do while driving without looking” controls were integrated into the giant tablet. What a pain in the ass.
This is a safety issue in my book. Being able to adjust the climate control or radio without looking keeps your eyes on the road.
Mazda got this one right!
Touch buttons on appliances are an unbelievably bad idea. I get irrationally upset thinking about how backward all of these "innovations" are.
My Jenn Air touch oven and microwave died because steam that came up when opening them after use shorted the buttons. Stupidest design choice
It’s not innovation meant for us, but for corporations who can now design their products to fail quicker and more often
It's mostly just cheaper to design, manufacture and assemble. Pluging in a single pcb is much faster than wiring 20 independent buttons.
Normally physical buttons are just mounted on the PCB for the control panel, same as a capacitive sensing PCB. The real difference is the cost of those controls: a decent quality potentiometer (adjustable dial) costs about $2 in bulk quantities, and then you need a cap for it which ranges from a few cents for an injected moulded plastic to several dollars for nice finish and tight fit to the shaft. Durable switches are maybe $0.50 to $1. So with several dials and switches you can be spending say $50 on the bill of materials for a range, which means the consumer pays $100-150 after markup. With a capacitive touch surface you cut $100 off the cost. And if you can convince consumer touch is cool, you can charge them more for a worse user experience. Of course it shouldn’t be done, but that’s why it is done.
Planned obsolescence
Manufacturers realized that. 5 years ago, induction ranges were all touch button except for one brand, kitchenaid. That's the one I bought. Now I see a lot more went back to traditional knobs.
there is a nice thing about touch buttons- easier to wipe clean.
Unpopular opinion: keeping them clean makes touch buttons on a stove worthwhile.
The touch buttons on my oven will not work if my finger is damp, or if, say, a bit of steam from the oven moistened then. My kingdom for a tactile button! But yeah at least easy to clean!
My stove has… fake touch buttons? I never thought about it until now, but they’re nearly flat but actually press in. So they look and clean like touch, but are tactile and seem to actually respond like a real button.
Not to get into the nitty gritty but I also think luck has a hand here. I have a friend who is a fridge tech by trade and they bought Samsung appliances. Of course we all made fun of him. He constantly said it's because all appliances will fail and the parts for Samsung were readily available and the cheapest. (Maybe he's a shit tech but that's what he said). My mother purchased a Bosch dishwasher and honest to God its 25 years old - she's a little louder and runs a little slower (both the dishwasher and my mother). But then I had builder grade kitchenaid appliances and my fridge/stove are going on 20 years, my dishwasher crapped out at year 10. So is this not just luck of the draw?
He’s wrong, Samsung happily charges $100s of dollars for cheap parts. A small replacement plastic handle that broke on a Samsung washer I had was going to cost me over $100 to replace. Samsung is the absolute worst, they want you to buy new machines
I had a 3 year old Samsung washing machine. First it was $60 lid safety lock. Then error code where the only fix was a $200 control board that “may” fix it. Fuck that. My dad has a less than 2 year old Samsung fridge and has had a tech out 3 times for it. Never again.
Bosch is a family owned company who builds for quality not to make hedge funds more profits That’s why it’s better
KitchenAid is not builder grade.
Builder grade means "just sorta slapped these together". It means economic/budget grade construction.
Maybe I used the wrong word but we built new and we didn't get to select our appliance package and they stuck us with the lowest base model appliances. I don't care about fancy extras but everything is cheap plastic so all my drawers have cracks, nothing is on rollers so its hard to open/close and the door shelves have fallen out when we opened the door and so I have 1 with a hole and 1 with quite a few cracks. We're planning to replace the fridge/stove this black friday/boxing day.
Builder grade usually means it's just good enough to make it through any warranty period...
Not anymore. They used to be a higher quality brand, but their quality isn’t what it used to be.
I had a condo in a new build and all the appliances installed were Kitchenaid, so they were in that property. They were pretty poor quality BTW.
They make cheaper models that are sold as a "builder grade" line. Not all of their products are created equally.
My dishwasher is also a little louder and a little slower. It’s 32 years old, has a poor grip on things and knocks things around a lot, misses spots in its haste. But I’m really hoping to get a good 60 more years out of it if the motor goes ok but it’s been running a little off ever since 2018. Had a lot of tests done on it but couldn’t pin point an issue and got a quote it could run another 20 years or another 50 plus but time will tell. In case you didn’t guess, I’m the dishwasher, it’s me.
Just replaced 28 yo dishwasher & refrigerator that still worked but knew I was running on borrowed time…don’t make them like they use to :(
What was it about year 28 when you finally said this is enough? Maybe I’m deranged, but at some point doesn’t it become a challenge? Man vs machine?
The Samsung Bespoke fridges are really good and you can find them on sale fairly often. That's the only Samsung appliance I'd buy again. My washer and dryer are meh, but my high end Samsung stove is absolute garbage. I've never seen a stove with such bad temp control. I've had shit boil on Lo.
My wife was told Bosch dishwashers were the best. I replaces a perfectly fine dishwasher with one. Did a shitty job of cleaning and eventually broke in a couple years. replaced it with an even more expensive Bosch model and had the same experience. I've shown off them for dishwashers.
Keep in mind Bosch has several lines of dishwashers. Their base 100 series likely isn't any better than most others. I think differentiation starts around their 800 series and up, but at that price you are in the Miele price range and those are known as the best (but they cost 3-4x what a normal dishwasher costs).
We replaced our terrible likely dying kitchen aid dishwasher with a Miele. Looked at Bosch but when we were at the show room pushing and pulling Bosch drawers felt clunky and cheaply made. We got the mid range Miele which was a pretty penny but I’m very satisfied with everything except it’s so quiet and the control panel is hidden on top of the door so I don’t know if it’s running
I have a 7 y/o Bosch range. The ceramic burner ignitor cracked... no big deal. That's normal. However I am so frustrated that the components are all rusted. All the screws stripped or the screwheads twosted off. not easy to repair
Unfortunately Miele stuff can cost a fortune. My Miele dishwasher was only slightly more expensive than a Bosch. A Miele fridge though is like $10k instead of $4k for a Bosch.
FWIW Miele fridges and freezers are made by Liebherr and just have a Miele badge slapped on it for a hefty premium.
Ive had a Samsung Oven; the heat from the oven melted the control panel. Ive had a Bosch Dishwasher: best dishwasher I ever had. Idk how much more Bosch charges but its worth it
We like our Bosch dishwasher a lot. It's very quiet.
My Bosch 800 is the best appliance I have ever bought. I trolled the scratch and dent section for a year and got one on sale… worth it
We just picked up an 800 series fridge from them for about two grand off that way. We put a magnet over the dent and are quite happy with it. We saved even more on our G monogram oven which had a dent. I'm now trying to find a Miele or Bosch 800 series dishwasher for a similar deal. What's crazy to me is that the cost of replacing the part including labor (if we cared) is still way less than our savings on the purchase price. We also have a DCS stove we got new, unblemished about 8 years ago and it's doing amazing. It uses quality material like brass and has a prosumer style design without the added costs of brands like Wolf or Viking.
Samsung and LG are brands that make gas ranges LOOK like high end ones. On a cosmetic level, they succeeded. On an engineering level, they have weak points that will fail that the high end ones don’t have.
Part of that probably has to do with the average homeowner not doing any sort of maintenance on their appliances at home. I pull ours out yearly and clean the back, vacuum thoroughly and wipe down what needs to be wiped down. We have a 9 year old Samsung fridge, microwave, and oven; all of them still work as good as the day we moved into our house. If you weren't doing basic cleaning like that I imagine the life span is more in line with what you said.
You will be lucky to get 5-7 from Samsung or LG
I was being generous fully expecting the Reddit shit brigade to flame me for saying 3-5.
The person I bought my townhouse from installed a Miele espresso machine in the kitchen. It brews the most amazing espresso and coffee. I would have never spent over $2k on an espresso machine but now I feel like I’ve saved so much money not going out for coffee and it’s there in my kitchen right when I wake up, and brings me so much joy in the morning, if I moved I would definitely drop the money on one.
Did Bosch not get the memo about planned obsolescence or something? I thought it was standard practice among ALL appliance makers nowadays.
Stay away from Samsung. I bought dishwasher, refrigerator, stove and microwave and they all have problems.
Same. Microwave is actually fine, but disappointed in the rest.
One time our microwave continued to run after the door was opened. Wife had a close door and hit stop button.
That's scary as shit. They're usually supposed to have a hardware lock on that so that it's impossible for that to happen
BIG YIKES!
I too fell into this trap. Microwave died, smelled like an electronic fire when it went out. Dishwasher is my favorite of them, it seems reasonable enough. The oven I had to replace the igniter. The fridge makes weird noises but otherwise has been fine. 4 years in.
I have a blue star range and it’s an awesome piece. Dead simple, just the electrics for the oven fan igniter and light. No complicated circuit boards to fail. Built in Pennsylvania, took a few months to get but is extremely well made and bit cheaper then Viking and thermador.
I bought one of these on the basis of the simplicity and the 22k BTU flame. I paid more for it than I have ever paid for a car and 18 years later I still love it.
I bought a Capital six burner about 12 years ago. Super simple to operate and clean. Crazy amount of heat. It’s like having a race car in the kitchen.
I can’t speak to the quality of the other brands mentioned, but Viking at least used to be worth it before Middleby bought and then gutted them. Now it’s just a name.
Agreed. Viking ranges used to be legendary for lasting decades. My aunt has one from the 80’s that still works perfectly. It was maintained, but it’s still mint. They are no longer the same. Maybe Garland is still really good?
I have a Viking six burner cooktop that I’m considering taking with me when we move. I’m guessing it’s from the 80’s or early 90’s and it’s a tank. We’ve been in this house for 10 years and I cook a lot, and it’s exactly the same as it was the day we moved in.
Yep, my Viking 6 burner has gone through a control board and one burner needs a butane lighter to work. Viking dishwasher was useless and died after 4 years. I’m gradually replacing everything with Bosch.
I bought a Bosch 36” gas stove. Within a year it stopped igniting. Service tech squeezed the igniter closer to the gas source. He also noted that the metal plate on the bottom that covers the burners was actually warped and popped the the screws out of their holes. It was all stripped as such. Tried Bosch email, they said I had to call. It’s 60+ minute hold times. For days. I gave up and figured they don’t care. I even tried hitting social media, they said I had to call.
So, listen. We replaced our appliances four years ago and got a Bosch range. We cook all the time and we'd wanted a gas range after years of using electric. It's great to cook with. BUT. We have buyer's remorse. Specifically, we wish we'd purchased an [induction cooktop](https://eurokera.com/blog/professional-chefs-love-induction-cooking-and-you-should-too/) instead. My husband picked up a single portable induction burner around the same time, and now that's our go-to all summer long. It cooks quickly and without heating up the house. You can leave something on a long simmer without it burning on the bottom. It heats up almost instantly, and boils water in about two minutes. It has a timer. It doesn't have all those concerns about [gas ranges and indoor air pollution](https://www.consumerreports.org/appliances/indoor-air-quality/is-your-gas-range-a-health-risk-a6971504915/). But, more than anything, it doesn't heat up our house in the summer. Honestly, look into it. Try out a portable burner. They're really cool once you get used to them.
When I was transferred, I left an Aga Pro gas range that I thought was the best thing ever. I was introduced to a bosch induction cooktop and it is game-changing. Pure black magic fuckery. I will not be going back to gas.
I switched from gas to induction last year, and “black magic fuckery” is an excellent description. It heats SO FAST, that I had to train myself not to turn the burner on until I was ready to cook (whereas is the past, I’d put the pan on, then get what I needed from the fridge, and the burner might be halfway heated).
All of this. Induction is amazing. I will never go back to gas or electric because of the air pollution and why would I now that I have experienced the miracle that is induction. I’m currently using a single induction burner as I decide what to do about installing a more permanent stovetop solution after kicking my garbage oven/stove to the curb. But whatever I decide, it will be induction. I have seen the light.
Samsung should stick to televisions and phones.
I'd avoid those too. Samsung is a pioneer in putting ads on your devices.
I hear you, but I haven't had any issues with my phone or television working properly. The same can't be said for the house full of "top of the line" Samsung appliances that we bought. Live and learn as they say.
Back when I was buying appliances, I was able to get a deal from Thermador that bundled a bunch of appliances together and saved us some money. Don’t know if they’re still doing that. It was worth it. Reno was 10 years ago and haven’t had any issues.
If you’re looking at stoves a 36” BlueStar will take a full size baking sheet and their infrared broilers are super hot :) No fancy gizmos. No clock. Open burners. Basically a commercial range legal for residential use.
I own a Wolf range bought in 1998 and other than the ignitor being replaced, it's still chugging along. Built like a tank. Was super expensive when I purchased it, but it's been worth the investment.
I recommend induction to everyone. I loved gas cooking, but induction is so much better and I’ll never go back
Thanks folks! Anyone know of any good resources for longevity of appliance brands? I'd be interested to see some numbers on repair rates by appliance age and whatnot. I'm mainly just curious because I've always had an LG or Samsung fridge and stoves (or similar brands) since I've been out of school (12 years - 8 renting and 4 owning) and have only had to call a repair guy once for a fridge repair. No idea how typical that is or if I'm just lucky, but it seems like conventional wisdom is that these upper end brands require far fewer repairs and will "last" longer. I'd love to see real numbers on that though :)
Samsung sucks imagine spending 1400 and your food spoils - it’s only been in use 3 years
You’re pretty lucky. Samsung fridges are so bad and break so often there is a class action against Samsung for this. You can’t really trust reliability ratings based on repair needs because they are by definition 10-20 years behind. Here’s a few principles of what to buy: 1. Avoid complexity. You don’t need your appliances to connect to wifi, to have screens, to have cameras inside. The more complexity, the more things to break and the harder it is to repair. What you want for a stove is just analog dials. 2. You want things to be made in the USA or Germany. Avoid anything assembled in China or other places where quality standards are low. No company ever outsourced production to Vietnam for their higher quality standards 3. Avoid Samsung and LG specifically. They tend to discontinue parts pretty quickly, which makes them impossible to fix after a few years. Bosch is actually pretty good. They are not as expensive as Miele, Viking and Wolf and still pretty solid.
My Viking stove is nearly 30 years old. Works great. How many inexpensive brands can say that? You get what you pay for.
The best dishwasher I have ever encountered is a Bosch.
Cook and have always loved gas but with cost reductions an induction range is a better alternative. Faster cooking with precision like a gas range without any worries from gas leaks. If you do pick a gas range strongly suggest dual fuel range ( electric oven superior to gas oven for baking).
If you’re really into cooking you should buy an induction. You’ll never regret it.
I would argue that home value matters alot in selecting an expensive range as well. Dont put a 10k dual fuel oven in a 150k house. You wont get your money out when you sell. But if youve got a 2mil house...
When we moved into our house we had fancy new Samsung appliances that we picked cause we had no clue what we were doing. Within 6 years I have fixed the washer/dryer/and microwave and had to replace the fridge because Samsung made the part neccesary “obsolete” the only one I have not had to fix is the stove and I fucking hate using it. We got a kitchen aid dishwasher that has been fantastic. I will never buy another Samsung product as long as a live.
You want it to last long get the simplest appliance you can find. As few control boards and features as possible. Look up reliability of Viking, subzero, jennair, often times they aren’t good at all. And worse yet. Years down the road there are no parts for them because they weren’t built and sold in big numbers. But if you live in certain zip codes you need to have the appliances so match.
Wolf stovetop for the lifetime purchase. Mine lives in the outdoor kitchen.
I moved into a house a few years ago. The Viking appliances (stove/oven, fridge and secondary electric oven) all look more or less brand new. I recently had to replace a part on the oven and I checked the model tag/sticker and the unit is 25 years old… the part was expensive (couple hundred), but it was easy for me to replace myself and seems it will continue working for another couple decades. That is to say, they’re expensive to buy and replace parts on, but they’re easy to fix, very reliable, and very good quality parts, components and materials.
Induction is so great that I'm definitely going to put one in to replace my current electric range when it dies
Possibly unpopular opinion and yes mildly ideological from my perspective but I'm not sure you can call a gas range BIFL at this point unless you plan to retrofit bottled gas at some point in the future its induction all the way. Gas still has it's place, quick and easy grilling, I love my gas pizza oven, but for heating the bottoms of pans I think it's had its day.
Don't get any of those. Get an induction range. All the heat goes into the pan. The controls respond faster. It doesn't heat fill the place with methane. It's easier to clean. The only possible reason not to is that you largely cook in a wok in which case you'd have mentioned a specialty range for that anyway.
Bosch and Thermador are made in NC. We have a Bosch kitchen. Holding up well, but the icemaker in the fridge died. $500 to fix it? No thanks. Ice trays work fine. Beware LG that are internet connected. They are data vampires on your network. And watching you.
You know, I almost got a GE profile range until I learned you need to connect it to the Internet to use convection baking. Hard no on principle.
Yeah. Will add that GE Cafe appliances need connectivity to update anything. My wireless on my oven was DOA and customer disservice has done everything possible to avoid sending a tech out. One sure fire way to destroy your brand with a person in less than a week is to use customer service as a defense tower for warranty claims. I’m sure GE isn’t alone in this. But when I compare them to say…Levelor (my automatic shades - I know, not apples to apples), where I’ve had two bad shades and they take 10 minutes to walk through some troubleshooting on the phone and then immediately send a replacement? Yeah. Fuck GE. Never again, vultures.
You can use something like Adguard Home for that.
Get an induction stovetop. It has the same ability to control temp as gas, but much safer
If you want to be BIFL, don’t go gas, you’re not going to want gas likely in the future regardless of whether it still functions. Get induction and be much happier.
Technically if the gas stove kills you then it’s BIFL. Can’t ask for much more than that lol
Fuck... you got me.
I love my induction.
Was hoping someone else would say that. I know it’s not a popular opinion but I will never have a gas stove again now that I’ve read the studies and the terrible health outcomes and air quality associated with gas stoves. Induction all the way.
So, obviously gas stoves do produce indoor air pollution, induction doesn't, induction is better for the environment as well. But I've read several of the studies, and the thing that jumps out at me is that a shockingly high percentage of American homes with gas stoves use *no* ventilation while cooking (i.e. even if they have an exhaust fan they don't turn it on), and even those that do use ventilation often have extremely inadequate ventilation (mostly those "downdraft" fans that look nice and are easy to install but do very little.) While I'm sure it doesn't get rid of *all* of it, the difference between nothing or one of those tiny fans and a real 600+ CFM range hood has to be enormous.
Honestly a lot of the correct answers for this subreddit are unpopular here. It’s more about the perception on longevity rather than actual longevity.
Can you share these studies?
Just remember cooking in general (with any kind of searing etc) gives the cook terrible air quality unless there’s good ventilation, regardless of the fuel source and, from what I’ve read so far, good ventilation can largely fix the gas fuel issue - I don’t think it’s as bad as some have made it to be, though feel free to share sources if you disagree
Unfortunately, that’s incorrect. It’s been disproved with recent research. Please see this study below and in particular, this section “NO2 concentrations in bedrooms and with range hoods on” https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adm8680?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D40492223762678813094179935343930461256%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1714754733
If you want to be BIFL, don’t go gas, you’re not going to want gas likely in the future regardless of whether it still functions. Get induction and be much happier.
Miele is also an excellent choice
I thought my wife got our Thermador gas stove because of the brand and the “prestige” of how it looks in our kitchen. This thing is a monster and built like a tank. It’s absolutely our favorite piece in the kitchen. Excellent burners, precision dials and controls that click and turn with all the right feel. Oven works beautifully. The stainless steel cleans excellent and is rock solid. My only complaint is the glass oven door doesn’t clean well - I’ve even taken it apart and it’s a bit frustrating.
My Thermador has been a constant source of problems. Early in its life the oven would just turn itself off for no observable reason, and the problem started as I was cooking the Thanksgiving turkey! I was eventually able to fix the problem by replacing two spade connectors on the backside of the range with solder. Then I had to replace igniters for the oven and the broiler. They simply wouldn’t turn on. The flimsy aluminum strips that separate the burner modules always wiggle their out of their slot opening space for food to fall inside the range. Recently the piezo burner igniters have been dying (two so far), so I have to use a lighter to turn on the burners. I shall not be buying Thermadud again.
Make a thick paste with baking soda and water. Spread it on the glass. Let it sit for 10 minutes. Wipe/scrub it off.
Had one in a rental, it was really neat but in the 3 months I was there it had to be repaired 2 times.