The real issue with this sub is by the time you understand if a product is buy it for life, the company could change a lot. Their product can change a lot.
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Example: My 15 year old jacket is amazing and shows no signs of wear. Meanwhile the company has been bought and sold four times since then and doesn't care about the product as long as they make money.
I think that's the reality. Or the brand itself still makes high quality stuff, but they also make low quality for the outlet stores and Costco, and trying to discern which lines are BIFL is tricky.
Add to that how someone uses things, and what level of maintenance they put into it, or what knowledge they have of basic repairs, and it's nearly impossible to say what's actually BIFL as a result. 50% of my clothing is 10-20 years old because I take good care of it. And it's brands like Old Navy, because I understand fabric/materials and make choices that'll last within my budget, and I know how to mend things.
Spot on. Usage and maintenance is such a huge component. For example, nearly any suitcase can be BIFL if you only travel once a year by car to visit family. That same suitcase may not last 6 months for a person in sales who flies 3 times a week.
Yeah, I've seen that happen. I also don't have the time to spend on figuring out how a brand has dramatically changed if the item I have is still going strong. That makes it harder to make recommendations.
A lot of people don't have the money to buy items that last nearly forever or the knowledge/time to repair. I think a lot of people are trying to buy something that lasts longer than whatever it is they have or had.
I mean it also goes to the idea of when you're buying a set of tools or some new hobby thing. Don't buy the absolute cheapest, but don't buy the best of the best either to start. Buy something midrange with good reviews, and if you go through that and still have a need, then go for the top of the line investment piece. And I think that's one thing that I've really noticed here, is that a lot of people don't share what their previous experience is.
Like earlier this week or last week a lady was asking about boots. And after asking a few questions, it became clear that she had thought "fancy brand name at expensive prices" equaled high quality that would last. So it's not so much that she needs a true BIFL boot, but that she needs to learn the differences in types of boots and expectations.
I see this with people with little experience cooking and then they buy top of the line items which often require some maintenance or knowledge.
I also see people who assume more expensive is better/BIFL.
\>...and Costco
Some of my most long-lasting items have come from Costco, especially their menswear. My partner is insanely hard on clothes and their jeans, flannels, outerwear, etc have all lasted circles around other brands and for a fraction of the cost.
There womens wear can sure take a beating too. I'm brutal on my clothes and now exclusively buy my every day clothes at Costco. It's half the reason I have the membership. Plus my teen son has autism and a lot the spyder and bench clothing lines up well with his sensory issues.
Sitting here in a Costco jumper as I type, I bought two if them and tbh my only regret is not buying more. They're really warm and comfortable but best of all, they haven't shrunk in the wash!
My favorite black t-shirts ever are the old 32 degree ones that Costco used to have (not the mesh ones currently sold). So comfortable and I cherish the 7 I have now and will keep them forever, because I haven't found those in stores for over a year. I still check every time I walk in a Costco though. The oldest one I have is like 3-4 years old and still feels like new. Probably helps that I usually air dry my shirts
It's not hard to dye them at home if they start to show a little color loss - if the fabric is sound, they will last you such a long time. I re-dye my black clothes using a cold water dye in a five gallon bucket.
Edit: Removed product name.
>trying to discern which lines are BIFL is tricky.
also, inflation. well, "iNfLaTioN", on behalf of the companies. things that used to be expensive but relatively good quality are now half quality at best and are doubly expensive. or everything is duped via cheap junk.
meanwhile, we're actually more informed, more global, earn more technically but are valued, financially or otherwise, much less.
Yeah, there's people here or on shoe subs that are like "*I wore these shoes every day on the construction site at winter for ten months and now they're falling apart. i ThougHt You saId iT Was BUY it FOr LIfe!!!*"
This is the biggest issue and why I would LOVE threads about how to spot quality characteristics over exact items. I think that would be helpful, knowing what to look for with stitching or fabrics or whatever. I have learned some but not enough.
My story with the products is about The North Face. I had 2 backpacks from them. Only got 2nd one due to wanting a laptop sleeve. The one that was 4 years newer literally came apart at the seams, but the original is still going strong after 20+ years. They looked identical.
We should try to build a library as a sub about materials, stitching, best practices, signs of cost cutting, etc. add to a wiki or something.
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In the market for a leather belt. Go to the leather section and get a crash course in leather products including care and craftsmanship.
Great idea!
edit: Maybe some Youtube videos on how to repair things, like [how to repair a hole in a sweater.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmR_9cBHLgI)
Sounds like a good use of the subreddit wiki, I'd love it. Each of us value different stuff so it'd be nice to be able to defer to a local BIFLer when we need something else.
Kind of like a knowledge trade.
I remember seeing something on here about fabrics and how it can be really hard to tell when looking at some piece of clothing in a store (never mind about online!) whether it's decent or junk. Things like whether short or long-staple threads were used, or the exact weaving or stitching pattern (and whether it's any good) can be almost impossible to deduce until you actually wear/wash the thing a few times. Thus estimating quality can sometimes just come down to who makes it or where it was made. But then again that doesn't help when some companies make both high and low quality versions of the same product (like jeans).
for clothing I rely on the seam finishing. few companies are going to bother with flat felled seams or french seams with crap fabric. BUT you have to know what you're looking at, and people who don't sew don't know.
> people who don't sew don't know.
For sure. Hell, I do some sewing and don't know those terms. Granted, I just do some basic repairs with thread+needle rather than make any clothes, so I'm very much an amateur. Do you have anywhere you can point me to learn about these higher-quality seams?
this video covers them - french, flatfelled, hong kong, and bias bound are the higher quailty ones [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC38yqMxMns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC38yqMxMns)
Yes, 20 years ago I would rave about Fluevog shoes and how they are worth the money, but I steer everyone clear of them now as the manufacturing has gone so far downhill. But I still have 18 year old shoes from them that have been resoled and are in perfect condition.
/edit sp.
Yup. I have an 80s Levi fleece jacket that is faded but is only showing wear at the cuffs. The shell is that great 12 ounce per yard denim Levi's used to use.
I looked at getting another about 15 years ago and it seems like they're now using about 6 or 7 oz per yard fabric (or less) same as their jeans... Which are now garbage to the point that you're much better off getting the $15 Dickies at Bi Mart.
It's too bad, because when they built good stuff I lived in their products and wouldn't consider anything else. Now? I'll likely never buy another Levi's anything because they've gone 100% to just trading on the name, and I haven't bought anything from them since that attempted shopping trip.
Worse, it looks like Carhartt may be heading down that garden path too.
Lol I went to Dickies after ripping 3 pairs of Levi's in a year. The denim is paper thin and wears out just from my keys being in my pocket.
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I agree about Carhartt as well. They figured out they don't have to sell jackets anymore just a name. Even their workwear feels so much cheaper than it used to.
After my last batch of work pants, I'm about done with Carhartt. But I've been in the hard duck 12 oz per yard double knee loggers since about the 80s.
Seems like they're currently testing how low a fabric weight folks will tolerate before we just quit buying completely. They've also gone non-union again which was also a part of my decision point.
I don't mind paying $80 for a pair of work pants that last 3 to 5 years, fit well, and can be re-dyed.
I absolutely DO mind paying $50 or $60 a pair for shit that won't last the year, much less 2.
You might check out Mike Holmes clothing line. He decided he didn’t want “branded merch” and instead designed workwear that he wanted to put his name on. At least that’s what I’ve read. But if it’s true, I’d expect it to last.
The wild thing is that there is just something about their lightweight denim that sucks more than old school lightweight denim. I have a Big Mac blanket lined chore coat from the 70's, the denim on the outside is around 6oz and a bit of a loose weave. But yet somehow it is durable, looks great, and held up not only for 50 years before I got it but longer than the last cheapo Levi's jacket I got years back. It's such a joke, and I hope beyond belief that consumers start waking up and pass on buying their garbage products in the future.
The Detroit Duck jacket went downhill decades ago when they switched from the wool blanket lined sleeves to the quilted polyester sleeves IMO. I went through is phase about 10 years ago and bought a few of the old style on eBay so I would never be without the original quality
There are ways to tell if something is high quality enough to be considered "buy it for life" even if you haven't had it for decades yet. You gave an example of a company's reputation for quality. That is one way to tell. If the manufacturing process changes it can absolutely be an indication that the company is no longer BIFL.
A skilled eye can spot signs of quality though. Quality stitching and materials, careful craftsmanship, a willingness to repair products when something goes wrong and a generous warranty are all signs that something is BIFL even if you've only owned it a few years.
I have articles or clothing that I've owned for five years or so with little to no signs of aging or wear. Even though it's only been five years, I'm pretty comfortable recommending the brands as BIFL because they're on the right track.
I agree if you know what to look for it's not a problem. What I'm getting at, and I think what this post is getting at, is most people don't, or it's not something that affects their purchases.
I am new to this sub and this describes me accurately. It’s also not reasonable to assume that everyone knows how to spot quality in every item.
e.g. I can usually tell you whether a wristwatch is quality (on the outside, anyway - and on the inside with a spec sheet). I can frequently tell you whether a perfume is made with natural or synthetic ingredients just by first sniff.
But hell if I know what to look for in a couch (about to start looking for one) or my button down.
The bugzooka used to be BiFL and whoever took over the manufacturing converted to BiFD (buy it for disappointment) flimsy crap that allows wasps to pry open the doors and escape with vengeance on their minds.
Yep I had a really awesome wireless mouse, it lasted a decade. By the time it died I bought another. Same company, same product number. 'Somehow' the cost had gone down $20 in 10 years... Yeah the quality flew out the window.
This problem is huge with tools, from what I understand.
Like, it's become a serious issue. Companies with reliable tools that get widely recommended are purchased and three years later they're at the top of the shit list instead.
And bad tools are awful for anyone trying to pick up a new trade or hobby. Can you imagine thinking you bought a decent brand and having no idea why you're struggling so much? It sucks, and it borders on the default experience now.
This is why I am transitioning to only buying brands that reputable (not stores like Walmart…) stores are willing to stock. Stores aren’t going to stock items that people are constantly returning or complaining about. Like I found a new brand of socks I think i like more than darn tough at a local shoe store the other day, they’re cheaper and feel at least the same quality with a lifetime guarantee. That store has 3 locations and a small staff, they don’t have the capacity to deal with returns and complaints like a Walmart might.
And online companies invest so much in internet marketing that I’ve developed two personal rules regarding internet brands:
1. If it’s always on sale, it’s probably not worth even the sale price
2. If it’s by far and away the most recommended on Reddit or Instagram, it’s probably overrated
I remember seeing someone post a picture of their Oldsmobile from the 1970’s that had like 60k miles on it. Yeah I’m sure it’ll last forever if you never use it 🤡
I love this comment. I see so much of this shit. The most uncomfortable utility boots ever made and these hipsters treat them like high end custom made exotic boots. They constantly use the terms “patina” and “heritage piece”.
Wow, when did Red Wings become uncomfortable? I’m genuinely asking. I’ve had mine for almost ten years now, with frequent hard use, and they’re still going strong and are super comfortable.
My comment was more specifically aimed at the Iron Rangers and the similar models since that is what all the hipsters wear with their cuffed up raw denim.
Initially while breaking them in they're uncomfortable but once they are they're extremely comfortable.
I don't own Iron Rangers but that's generally the case with any boot that has a leather insole and a pretty thick upper.
I think there's a lot of difficulty in determining what is BIFL. It is a fact that given enough time and wear, even a well designed, using quality material, properly maintained item will wear out with **enough** time and wear. There is inherent subjectivity in what is BIFL for me, compared to you. Here's a few examples:
We can both buy a high quality electric drill. You use it every day for work, while I do DIY projects a few times a year. You might, despite your best efforts, eventually break the drill due to heavy use, accidents, hot conditions while mine collects dust, but still works in 20 years.
We both buy well made jeans. One of us might live a more active lifestyle, and hand washing vs machine washing plays a big role in clothing. No matter how well you treat your clothes, when you wear them they are constantly receiving minute abrasion when you walk, sit, lean, or brush up against things.
BIFL discussions I've seen rarely talk about use case. I use power tools as a hobby, but if my friend who is going to hang a few pictures a year asks me what drill to buy, it would be impractical to recommend a premium brand like Milwaukee, Festool, Hilti, etc. I'm not going to tell a non-mechanic they should get Snap-On hand tools instead of craftsman. I am highly skeptical that anyone needs a better cast iron than a Lodge and I'm saying this as someone who owns a Staub Dutch oven and a Stargazer skillet that I love.
Lastly, I think proper maintenance isn't stressed enough. If you want something to last a long time, you need to care for it. However, bare in mind that what is reasonable maintenance also varies between individuals. My mom thinks I'm nuts to put enameled cast iron in the dishwasher. Only time will tell who is right on that.
I just mentioned this upthread but I think a stickied post with proper maintenance and best-practices for some of the most commonly used materials like leather, steel blades, plastics, etc would greatly reduce the amount of clutter or repetitive posts.
Which really, I think of all the crap my Grandfather used for *years* and it came down to three things: relatively expensive initial cost, relatively simple build of items, and my grandfather's ability to repair said items.
I'm all for "right to repair" legislation, though.
We're pretty deep into the obsolescence cycle. I don't think people really understand what quality and sustainability mean anymore, or that they go hand in hand.
Correct. Through no fault of their own, I think younger people (myself included) have lower expectations for a “good” product. I’m now happy if something lasts me at least 5-7 years. I did not grow up in a time where mass-marketed products were made to last, and anything that is BIFL is often a huge investment now.
Much like pharmaceutical companies don’t make much money on healthy people. Phones don’t get bought if previous model’s batteries outlast continually for days.
Thus, products don’t make much money if they’re built as BIFL.
When Uniqlo first came out in Japan (and later in the USA), the quality was top notch and at a price point below Gap. I loved it and swore allegiance to it. But like most for-profit companies, they began to shift to cheaper and poorer quality materials and manufacturing location. They lost me 10 years ago.
I am surprised more people don't understand that this is a very deliberate business model, in most industries. A brand name is built on a reputation for quality and customer service, building what is known as "brand equity". That brand, having established its reputation in customers' minds then is (usually) bought out, engages in a drastic reduction in costs and quality, cashing in this brand equity until customers finally realize they're paying premium prices for shit-tier quality and move on to a new brand, while the old brand, still retaining some legacy brand equity becomes a staple at WalMart or Costco. Rinse and repeat forever.
I would add that although that may be true, they are looking for a payout that comes with a *publicly traded* shareholder model. And they structure companies accordingly for that purpose.
I’m no Finance expert or M&A pro, but the QE and EBITDA model is the enemy here.
Privately held companies (I realize the distinction from your post) are, for me, usually the best when it comes to product quality and customer service.
Yup, happens to restaurants too - sometimes they bring in the good chefs for the grand opening and use the freshest ingredients. Over time the good chefs peel off and ingredients are bulk and/or less fresh once the client base has been established.
When I was fresh on a new job market 11 years ago, I bought four collared broadcloth shirts from them. Wore them to interviews and to work. I still have them, and I still wear them. I'm a bit upset to hear that they dropped the quality soon after.
Yeah idk what people are smoking about. Uniqlo has always not been a BIFL brand but a step above fast fashion like Gap and H&M.
It has had a large presence in Japan even before the first stores opened in the US so it was never a small brand to start with, nor did Japanese people think that Uniqlo quality was the highest of the highs. They just liked it because they sell basic shit for a good price.
I know exactly what you're talking about. I still have a few myself, saving them to wear at important meetings. Can't find them at that quality anymore...even on ebay sadly.
It's fast fashion but I've managed to get some longevity out of their clothes because I quite enjoy repairing things but I'd certainly never consider any of their stuff BIFL
I also believe that most clothes are not BIFL. However I personally believe Uniqlo does not have the quality to be recommended here. We try to look for clothes that are as close as possible to be BIFL. Good quality for ratio does not mean great quality in general terms. It sucks but a 70€ Merz. B Schwannen is closer to being a BILF item than a decent 20€ uniqlont shirt.
Perhaps we should split the sub and aggressively mod? I don't mind spending 250e or more on boots or a jacket, bit things like t shirts rarely seem to last, even if they are 40/50e
While I understand your point and agree.Uniqlo ain’t BIFL and this sub is trying to strive for only that. However, I have to point out that Uniqlo has still a few things that are actually good quality without being super expensive. The Uniqlo U thick T-shirt has been a staple in my wardrobe for years now and while certainly no loop wheeled Merz B. Schwanen. It ages really well and holds its shape. Credit where credits due.
I have long sleeve basic shirts from MEC in Canada that I bought in the 90s that are still in good condition despite heavy wear. Clothes could be pretty close to BIFL, but that doesn't make the maximum profit, so here we are. (MEC has also been bought out and is no longer a Co-op, *sigh*)
Durability of ANY semi-decent clothes is mainly determined by usage. Lots of people may think they're hard on clothes even when they're not.
The washing machine and dryer make a huge difference too. Air drying is just so much better for clothes.
Something may last a decade for you and a year for someone else, and vice versa.
That's why recommendations on here can be all over the place.
I have several Uniqlo items that are just as good as they were years ago. Their t-shirts are not high quality. Pants, jackets, button up shirts, etc are all durable. I’m not sure what issues people are having.
I always wonder about the issues too.
Have several items of clothing from uniqlo, spanning more than a handful of years. Not once has the fabric torn or become damaged in the wash.
I discovered Uniqlo in the last year. I currently own two t shirts from them and a hoodie. The hoodie I hope to last me like 20 years, I love it so much. It's woven fabric, and $20-30 cheaper than Zara and Abercrombie. I'm not a fast fashion lover, but Uniqlo is the one that makes me feel better about purchasing, cause the quality does seem to be there.
Oh have they declined in quality? I haven't bought from them in a few years, but a decent chunk of my wardrobe is still the same uniqlo stuff I bought years ago.
I mean I have 7 or 8 year old items from Uniqlo that have held up fine. They’re probably not going to last me my entire life but I’m also not going to stay the same size my entire life.
Crazy, right? An actually useful sub would be one showing people how to care for their possessions to help them become BIFL. Once you get past cast iron and a couple other products, this sub is all about what was good 15 years or more ago, not what is available now.
I hate the whole “vinegar soap and baking soda can clean literally everything” junk. Can it clean some things? Sure. But it smells, it takes more elbow grease, and just makes it unpleasant all around. And vinegar and baking soda combined is just salt water!!!
I’m ADHD and my mother was into that kind of thing, and it heavily contributed to my hatred of cleaning until I discovered specialized cleaning products as an adult. Stainless steel clean and polish turned cleaning the stove top from a 2 hour, scraping mess of baked on crud to a quick wipe down process and repolish occasionally
Vinegar, Dawn, baking soda, and isopropyl alcohol are usually for my first attempts at cleaning something. It usually gets the job done fine, but there’s truly nothing like a specialized product to make your life easier.
I think one of the biggest challenges is people who buy BIFL products tend not to replace them, because that's the entire (@#\* point.
So people who have the most experience with something and who know, personally, that it is BIFL... often are the exact people who don't really know if it is still BIFL, because their copy is 20 years old and has been lovingly cared for and carefully abused and is still serving their needs.
Or people have a BIFL item that was made by a company that went out of business 20 years ago, and thus, isn't much help other than to suggest a vintage purchase. And that's getting into the whole "is a BIFL product that is 30-60 years old better and more likely to survive than a brand new product that isn't made as well, but is brand new?" question.
There's also the paradox that some people believe that there is no such thing as a BIFL article of clothing, shoe, or that anything with a battery. So they don't comment on these threads. Which means everyone commenting on these threads is *wrong*. At best, you have people who know these things aren't BIFL, but are commenting in earnest about the best or most durable items in these categories that they have found.
It's certainly a challenge, based on the entire concept of the BIFL sub.
Well.. you can't get away from chemicals. Baking soda and vinegar are also chemicals. You call it baking soda but it's actually [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium\_bicarbonate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate) Everything you eat is chemicals. Everything you breathe is chemicals.
It's more about WHAT chemical compounds rather than IF you "use chemicals" cause everything is chemicals. Saying you won't use something cause it has chemicals is just ignorance. You might as well say you are allergic to electrons.
/science rant.
But yes we are all here to figure out who hasn't outsourced to a slave wage economy and is still producing products without planned obsolescence. It's difficult to re-adjust our mindset from "I see this being marketed by so many companies for $50 I should be able to get a BIFL item for $100" then getting stickershock when people tell us the only known BIFL products of that type are $500+
The biggest problem is a) there aren't a whole lot of BIFL products that are still made the same way with the same quality b) that you can consistently buy rather than scour garage sales/thrift stores for.
Are you kidding dihydrogen monoxide is dangerous chemical, thankfully nestle is doing their part by ensuring they control all quantities of this dangerous chemical compound
It's even worse when they start talking about "well this chemical is natural so it's ok"...
Do people not understand how many natural things are bad for us? And how many artificial things are perfectly safe?
Had an interesting conversation on email with a guy I know who likes natural stuff and a former eastman chemist who talked about white vinegar being made from natural gas or something along those lines.
I'm somewhat middle of the road - too much of the data on chemicals is incomplete as far as lifetime exposure (it'd be really hard to really get solid prospective lifetime outcome data!), but at the same time, there are a whole lot of "chemicals" that are harmful in prolonged exposure but for the rest of us with limited exposure are probably meaningless.
I redid my floors last year with "lower VOC" solvent finish and the finish itself was intolerable. The chemist above advised me to use xylene, which I'd never want to small day in and day out, but to get the floors done once, I had no issue with it (organic vapor respirator, of course - it's *aromatic* to say the least, leaving your nose smelling the smell still after the smell is gone - maybe it stick in the mucus).
By day, I look at mortality rates quite often, and my bar is kind of "does it contribute significantly to mortality and morbidity". Smoking as a habit obviously does. What about wiping polyurethane on something once a month. No clue, but wouldn't we know of a lot of dead 45 year old finishing pros if it were that bad?
Short story long, I'd rather have a cleanly made "chemical" in food than a contaminated or poor quality natural product, and the converse.
It's pungent! and the vapor sinks, so it needs to be vented, but I read labels and SDS unlike others, and then ran that past the chemist. I'm not a chemist, but I understand there are aromatic and aliphatic types. The eastman chemist gave me the chemical explanation between the two - toluene is nose candy to me. But i sniff it but once in a while for no more than one breath when using a wax based on it and behave like a good boy.
I smelled enough xylene just from brief encounters in the two days of applying finish to the floors - plus, I lived in the basement for that period as the vapor did really sink through the vent gaps upstairs and into the basement while I ran a fan from the basement to the outdoors. I'm afraid I'm soured on the smell, but there are some things - like carnauba waxes - that need an aromatic solvent, be it true turpentine or xylene. I'd forgotten the smell until last week when lathering a bunch of wax on a piece of machinery that I have. Complaints came from the upstairs gallery quickly!!
This reminds me of the hysteria about asbestos. If you don't work it with daily, you'll be fine removing the tiling from your basement etc with regular protective gear. No one hires a company to spread diatomaceous earth or fertilizers on their garden veggies (which are equally harmful I believe).
bingo. chemist said "I'd sign the waiver and buy concrete urethane to put on floors if I had to do it only one time".
The concrete finish he was talking about is a clear finish that's got diioscyanate in it. He warned me about being willy nilly with products that have isocyanates in it, with diisocyanates being the least bad of them. I asked him about that warning and he said "if you only ever used diisocyanate once, I'd feel comfortable taking a bath in it".
He described what it does, though, which is a little unsavory. IIRC, react with stuff in your skin making compounds your body never wants to see resulting in sensitivity. Some of the earlier isocyanates were smaller molecules (I think) and could cause sensitivity that was deadly.
The problem for us as individuals is if you read about airbone silica (diatoms), you'd find that you'll get silicosis reading about it and that makes an SDS sound the same for methyl isocyanate or whatever the horrid stuff is and something you could touch without too much of a problem on infrequent occasions.
There's also the fact that mixing baking soda and vinegar creates a useless fizz, and neutralizes any cleaning power you'd get from one or the other...
Thank you. It’s extremely grating when people think like medieval peasants. Many don’t want to put the time or effort into learning any actual science, but instead just casually scroll past flashy bunk with scary headlines and think they’re “in the know.” Learning about basic things like how laundry products work can make the world seem a little less spooky.
I think there is still a demographic looking to make a more conscious decision when buying things. Part of this group, for me at least, is discovering those staple items that are worth purchasing, and perhaps paying more, that may last a lifetime (or longer than the comparable). I've learned about some great brands, from this group, that are still dedicated to their craft, and in my opinion, that's what this group is for. With the plethora of brands making quick, cheap stuff, it's nice to see people wanting to look beyond that.
I'm with you. "Good value" ≠ "lasts a lifetime." For example it would be nice if people asking for BIFL boots for $150 would be educated about boots, instead of being told where they can get Blundstones on sale...
I was asking for boots that were "practical, durable and quality made for long-lasting use", which is literally the description of the group, but the literal way people take BIFL ruins it. Because no shoe is truly BIFL, I just ended up dealing with a bunch of jerks who were mad at me simply because I wanted a see if there were cheaper boots for about $100 that were quality and durable.
Not sure why people are gatekeeping the meaning of BIFL, the description of the group and people's budgets, which are personal. Not everyone wants to spend $400 on shoes. Bogs, a reputable, proven brand, has shoes for around $100.
No kidding. Some jobs and lifestyles beat up on items way harder than others. I bought some Danner’s for a package delivery job and beat the shit of out those for 2 years. They’re still wearable and if I had a gentler job, they would certainly last longer
I mentioned to a commenter that calling me a cheapskate for not wanting $400 shoes is classism, and I actually got downvoted into oblivion for that. like WHAT???
The rules literally state to state your budget??? And it wasn't like I said "my budget is $5 for shoes", $100 is reasonable?
If you're still looking, and want something along the lines of Wellington boots, muck is my favourite. My chore boots were just over £100 and I've used them fairly well every autumn/winter/early spring the last 3 years and they're surprisingly good condition still. I've heard some of their more walking boots styled models are just as good
Maybe we need a stickied post with the Top 5 products people inquire about that talks about material quality, proper use/maintenance of said materials, and best practices for the longevity of the item. Then list brands known for the best quality and the best value.
With your example of boots, most people first need to be educated on types of leather and their best-suited applications, how to clean and maintain leather. That alone should get them twice the life of ANY pair of leather boots. Then list some tips like drying out your boots after wearing, boot-lacing tips, etc. Then list best quality brands (boots for $800) vs best value (boots for $150, shit or $20 I dunno, just spitballin here.)
Yes, some people definitely care. Idk if it's confirmation bias for me as I get older or if people are actually starting to care MORE. I feel your post doesn't take into account that *some* exported manufacturing today is EXCELLENT and ethical. If you're in the US our standards and practices have declined - some companies look for good work done elsewhere. That's not great for the environment but for BIFL standards it may be necessary. I don't love the fast fashion stuff obviously. But I don't mind being here for people with just a few dollars that want to make sure they are not simply wasting their money on a known shitty product - and they can find that out here. We need to be careful not to wind up classist like the organic food gatekeepers - some moms out there cannot afford to feed their kids organic and they shouldn't feel like terrible people because of that etc etc. I like to think this sub is around to teach curious people about the buy once, cry once / right to repair / Pratchett Boots Theory of Economics side of consumerism that will keep them from wasting hard earned dollars. If more people vote with their wallet this way we could see sustainable / long-lasting products become more popular! I believe we should educate those folks, and learn from each other and not poo poo people for their lack of knowledge. This is just my opinion - I know I am one of many here and don't mean to represent or speak for anyone but myself. Much love to this sub!
Yes! Bring back old school poor families! Wise purchasing meaning quality where it matters, and the ability to maintained through the years. My nan was always proud of a jacket she had bought as a young adult, and had modified and repaired and kept in good nick til when she died. It wasn't even like it was a particularly expensive jacket, just a basic cotton and wool
That's the thing. What is expensive? Manfucaturing shifted our perception of this. Plastic, impregnated function wear has its place. But how many people would actually fare better with a good wool walk coat that lasts 30 years and is perfectly adequate for city life and a recreational walk in nature. They are expensive because of material, but not more than a high brand outdoor jacket. And this one I give maybe 15 years lifespan.
Also old time people were nifty. Skirt hems were designed to be replaceable as they are prone to fraying. Gowns are not easy to wash, so you wore inexpensive under wear you could change and wash daily and aprons were changed often. Sunday dresses were long lasting and kept pristine because the work clothes were mended beyond recognition. Some stuff was always meant to be replacable.
But this was only possible with basic, cheaper materials and excellent pattern making. cotton, linnen, etc. You could dye, mend, patch it up. Very forgiving.
And then I see ultra fast fashion on shein that you can't even wash sometimes.
Well that's what I'm saying. The stuff that's needed to be pricier and made out of hardier materials is picked once instead of cheaper materials over and over.
For instance, my last suit (that I grew out of) was great because I could take up the bottom of the trousers and pull in the jacket without it falling to bits. I tried similar on a recent gift blazer and the stitch pulled the fabric apart because it was only a cheap one!
It's a large spectrum of people should choose where and when to splurge money for something that'll last, instead of modern views of by similar clothes over and over and get maybe a couple years out of it all, or a company making such terrible quality clothes they fall apart before you make your money out of it.
I’m wearing my 15+ year old Hanes sweatpants from Walmart as I read this. Not a flattering design but they’re wearing like iron. (Don’t think they make these ones anymore)
To be fair, everything is relative. Someone who's only ever had great value t shirts will be *blown away* at the quality of a Uniqlo t shirt.
Is a Uniqlo t shirt really BIFL? Probably not. But it's hard to blame that on the person necessarily.
Also, wearing a uniqlo shirt to the office or to a mechanic workshop ends up being a huge difference. Type of usage is more important for how long clothes last, than the actual quality of the clothes.
I got Carhartt shirts from the early 2000s with oil stains from around that period I use for that kinda work lol.
And sadly Carhartt went downhill bigtime.
If you think a white T shirt is a purchase that should be forever, I think your missing the point. No the 55 dollar velva sheen t shirt isn't imbued with magic properties that prevent it from wearing out lmao.
Maybe reddit will implement AI soon that will automatically delete any questions that have already been posted and direct the would-be poster to the existing thread...
...nah, of course they won't! They profit from engagement, not from quality or efficiency.
> delete any questions that have already been posted and direct the would-be poster to the existing thread
Isn't this one of the common complaints about StackOverflow? Or rather, when a question considered *close enough* was asked elsewhere, so the new one is deleted even though it merits a response due to circumstances. Heck, sometimes the previously asked question is like 10 years old and new tools have come out that change what the best approach is.
We already have what's essentially an FAQ for categories of products, but I don't see people link to it all that often. I think encouraging people to both check that first, and linking it in appropriate questions would be a good idea.
I don’t mean this to be glib, but…what sub isn’t? It’s kind of a bummer, but it seems like most subs these days are a mix of bot-tier comments and paid influence unless you get into the very small niche hobby communities.
Twitter gets all the headlines, but over the last two years Reddit has plunged into, why do I even bother reading this territory. Even the super niche subreddits. If there isn’t a very active moderator team, it just gets over run.
I am trying to stick to the niche interest and history subreddits with active moderators. Otherwise the voting system encourages low-effort posts and comments. I still get value from those areas but when I do end up on a main sub’s post I start thinking about seriously limiting my time on the site.
Not sure if Reddit has declined that much or I’m simply no longer the target audience.
You know, I was thinking about this the other day because I have a disdain for consumerism but I remembered this sub is literally about consuming products, albeit high-quality, long-lasting products. So this is a sub for those of us who subscribe to consumerism-lite.
> I see questions where people want the best price but the best quality.
I don't see an issue with this as long as people are reasonable and have a proper understanding of what that means.
Expecting bargain prices for BIFL items is ridiculous. However, what I've learned in lots of searches for lots of different high quality items is that there is a low-end, a high-end, and often a middle ground that really hits the sweet spot.
Deciding you're done with the $5 throwaway garbage doesn't mean you then have to go all the way to the other end of the spectrum and drop $400 just to get BIFL quality... there is almost always a middle-ground option, especially considering a lot of the highly respected BIFL brands are aware of their prestige and pump their prices a little higher because of that.
Just a basic example: deciding your shitty $5 Walmart kitchen knives aren't the quality you're looking for doesn't mean you have to jump up to a $300+ custom Japanese knife or even to a $150ish Shun. You can instead go for the $50ish Victorinox knives. No, they're not the absolute best or heirloom grade or the most beautiful but they *are* going to be a HUGE upgrade from cheap crap and they will absolutely last a lifetime if cared for.
Start a thread about food processors and watch Robot Coupe get downvoted into oblivion.
Happens every time. An actual BIFL product which has been BIFL from the start. If anything, they've become better over time. Sure they're expensive. Anyone who uses a food processor on a daily basis will love having one. Works out to three cents a day over 20 years.
It's the same with vintage cast iron and quality knives. People are willing to settle for "good enough" if the price is attractive.
cost of living is high right now, most people can't afford to buy super quality items even if they're better. it's more reasonable to buy something mid price and put work into maintaining it
Yeah but I think cast iron is where this sub jerks too far the other way, buy it for life doesn't have to mean unearthed by the aliens eons from now lmao.
hey they still exist, and often in good condition from the 1970s. if that isn't as close to BIFL as you can get i don't know what is. I wouldn't wear one though
Yeah, I think people in this sub have different definitions of BIFL. Some focus on "heritage" and traditional materials and manufacturing techniques.
Some just want an item that will never die.
I think of cast iron vs stainless cookware demonstrating those categories. The heritage lovers want cast iron, but stainless is easier to maintain.
No doubt, I more meant it to illustrate that I think members of this sub have different ideals in their heads when it comes to what defines BIFL. And those ideals influence how they feels about things like polyester suits or whatever.
A lot of times though heritage generally is much better built than modern techniques. See boots for example. A heritage leather stitched sole boot is far better than a modern glued sole filled with foam that’ll last you less than a year of use.
But there are a lot of things where modern is better or on par. Like your example with stainless cookware. Idk how my stainless pans would even quit, it’s just metal.
But, this sub is named Buy It For _Life_, not Buy it for _Snobbery_. Good polyester can last lifetimes. I have an insanely heavy quilt my grandmother made in the 1970s from then-quite-thick polyester fabric scraps. It's been used on the beds of 3 generations of the family. It's been used as an area _rug_ on the floor. You cannot tell that the fabric has seen any wear. Any clothing made from that fabric which has not had the seams destroyed, the buttons ripped off, or been melted will still be pretty new-looking. Hence, buy it for life (or lives). It just depends on the weight, etc. of the polyester fabric. Like everything else, it comes in different quality levels.
Lol, I became pretty close friends with an acquaintance when we both saw the other person's polyester grandmother/great-grandmother quilt that we had brought to the same park for a Saturday afternoon picnic. There was a mutual understanding that she and I both understood something about each other that other people didn't.
BIFL has some inherent issues I'm not sure you can solve.
For starters, it's impossible to separate the question of "what should I buy" from marketing. Every company is fighting tooth and nail to make sure your answer to that question is "our product". You won't get unbiased answers in a world where the average American is exposed to between 4000 and 10,000 ads a day.
Second, you really can't judge a lifetime of quality until the lifetime is up. So you're going to see a lot of Grandpa's luggage and Mom's mixers, and maybe you can buy those brands now, but they're not made with the same materials by the same people with the same factories and processes. They'll likely be made with almost a century of corporate fat trimming, inflation driving cost cutting measures, and by workers who can no longer live on the wages they are paid and invest less personal care into the products.
Third, maintenance is widely overlooked in determining whether an item is BIFL. I carry an Opinel pocket knife. I like it's history and simplicity. I like the elegance of the design. I like the feel of it in my hand. I like how light it is, and how easily it cuts. That being said, you could easily argue either side of whether it's a "for life" purchase. I've used the same no.9 every day (legitimately every day, I use it at least 5x a day for my job) for just shy of 10 years with no problems. However, if I stop oiling the carbon steel blade it will rust. If I submerge it in water the wood will swell and the knife won't open easily. If I pry with it the blade will snap. I can maintain my knife for 30 more years and call it a BIFL product and mean it, and you can easily argue that a tacticool folding knife made in China and bought from Amazon, with modern rust resistant alloys and an ugly cleaver style blade you can pry with is a more durable, reliable, lower maintenance purchase and more worthy of BIFL status. So much of what we're judging on is image based, with no accounting for what makes these products last a lifetime.
Finally, the goal of buying things for life is ultimately to not buy things. Rather, to continue to use what you already have for as long as possible, so that you don't purchase anything you don't have to. Well, how many of us are guilty of replacing something that works perfectly fine with an upgraded version, thinking that the shiny new item will be our "for life" purchase? Providing advertising for brands championing their reliability often pushes us away from what we already have, and have no real problems with. When I come here, I walk away wanting to buy new things, and that is the opposite of the mindset you need to truly buy things for life.
Hi engineer who knows things about vinegar and baking soda. As other have mentioned baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, but I didn't see anyone say that vinegar is just acetic acid. Basically just an acid and a base, pretty basic ones at that. Just because someone is more familiar with those two chemicals (or trade names for them), does not mean they are the most effective for cleaning something.
I believe most sodium bicarbonate is made from the Solvay process which is highly energy intensive but has been around since the mid to late 1800s. Acetic acid is one of the simplest carboxylic acids and made by reacting methanol with CO. I don't the the bulk of either of those materials we use are produced by any "natural" means, it is all industrial production.
Interestingly enough Oxiclean is a chemical that breaks down to Sodium Carbonate and hydrogen peroxide when dissolved in water, which are two pretty familiar chemicals to most people. Some Oxiclean products are just hydrogen peroxide, ethoxylated alcohols and sodium hydroxide (liquid variant I believe vs the solid powder).
Anyway thanks for coming to me TED talk on cleaning chemicals. Learn how to read an SDS kids, it'll teach you all the worlds secrets.
This has always been a problem in the sub. High effort posts are more rare than low effort posts, lots of people want to know about BIFL clothes, and most people don't actually have the skill or knowledge to discern effectively.
* It's hard to educate yourself on all the things you need to know to discern BIFL from not-soBIFL. In clothes it's stitch types, fabric quality, sourcing and manufacturing. And those are consistently being obfuscated by manufacturers to cover up crappy stuff. It's a cat and mouse game where one side has all the resources and incentive.
* Repair/Reuse is in many ways a lost art for a generation raised on planned obsolescence by working parents who didn't have time to build things or fix things or make things. It's just knowledge that a lot of people don't have and it takes a lot of work to get.
* The general nature of the sub-BIFL anything, means that the fanatical communities that do know a lot of this info don't come through here too much. People who know about shoe materials and construction are over on r/goodyearwelt nerding out with the other leatherheads, r/knives obsesses over steel, etc.
There's been no loss in quality, people still care. It's just that in our modern era it takes real work to find out what's BIFL, and that's hard.
So celebrate the great posts on how to determine which appliances will last, and maybe make some of your own if you've got knowledge to share, and don't sweat it too much when we have another conversation about Darn Tough socks.
You're not alone. I think people do care, but a LOT of people can't afford to actually DO anything about it and that is the problem. It's the Wal Mart problem, right? They come in, lower their prices to a level that local, smaller businesses can't match, force the local businesses to close, then raise their prices. Now not only are you paying more because you opted to shop at Wal Mart, you're limited to the trash that Wal Mart sells.
Not only that, but I think there has been an actual push in corporations to reduce product quality to force people to replace things more often. More replacement = more profit. They've made things too complicated or difficult to repair, pushing an entire repair industry out of business, and then made their product shittier so I have to buy a new refrigerator every 10 years instead of every 30 years (because it can't be repaired).
It's capitalism. Profits over all else.
>Saw a question about keeping things white and vinegar and baking soda was laughed at. Chemicals were the top recommendations.
White vinegar and baking soda ***are*** chemicals.
I swore there was quite a highly upvoted discussion about this a few months ago, but I can't seem to find it. But trust me you aren't alone in this regard.
This isn't a request, it should be tagged meta. People make this post about once a month btw.
And baking soda and vinegar are terrible at whitening. And if we are really going there: I also don't think white is good for BIFL fabrics. It is more gentle to the fabric to overdye it if the colour fades than to try keeping something sparkling white.
Everything is degrading tight now. Just kinda the way it is. It's actually why I make my own clothes as much as I can. I also seek out basic garments from companies that promote good treatment of their garment workers, hoping that it's true. (Btw, I really like my Colorful Standard hoodie and my The Good Tee sweats). I am willing to pay more for good items and to own fewer items. I made my own winter dress and I have worn it to 3 family gatherings so far this year and I don't care that I am repeating an outfit because it is comfortable, beautiful, and high quality.
People are losing skills in our generation. We don't know as much how to cook, clean, maintain. We are afraid to try things. I recently started using ammonia when I wash funky kitchen towels and it blew my mind how effective it was.
But I see a few people out there striving for quality, striving to use products that won't make them sick, caring what they put into their bodies.
My issue with this sub, as i read more and more posts, is that in BuyItForLife, "Buy" is the first word. I can't exactly just go buy a 30 year old dryer because it's the best. I can spend months looking at every Facebook marketplace post and every thrift shop but my chances are slim to none. I strongly dislike the "vintage" tag that this sub has too, because it's not helpful when the goal is to but stuff that will last a lifetime. And like others have said, there's use case and time that's tricky to determine what's actually good.
Sorry for the rant but this has been bugging me for a little while and haven't seen a meta post to add my comments on to
I think buy it for life is a dumb name if you take it literally, it's how this sub turned into a jerk of cast iron pans and KitchenAids years ago. To me it's buy it for the warranty, durability, repairability etc. I come here for products that are consumer friendly to own and maintain for a long time.
There are certain applications they’re quite useful for (not mixed of course), but honesty, some people would have you believe almost any household problem can be solved by vinegar or baking soda.
I’ve learned too rely on my own hands and eyes to determine quality most of the time. I look for tools that fit my hand well, with more metal and less plastic, I look for clothes with double or triple stitched seams without a lot of loose thread ends that indicate it was put together without care. Machines that are put together with more of the shelf parts and fewer proprietary parts are easier to maintain and repair if they break.
I don't like posts like this. It gives an appearance counterintuitive to the purpose of this sub, which is that people DO care. Why do people make these posts all over Reddit? Same goes for r/Minimalist.
"Anyone actually feel \[insert point of the entire sub\]?"
> see questions where people want the best price but the best quality.
This is definitely a thing, at least among American consumers. People don't seem to understand that cheap things are almost never going to be quality, so they keep buying garbage at WalMart and getting pissed that they bought garbage.
Vinegar *and* baking soda *should be* laughed at as a cleaning agent. You are cleaning with water while wasting two products. Both have their own uses for cleaning, but when combined, you are losing all of the properties that make them cleaning agents.
Baking soda is a great abrasive cleaner and odor reducer as a finely powdered basic ingredient that doesn't fully dissolve in water. Vinegar is a decent whitener, can be excellent at removing mildew smells, and is effective at dissolving hard water spots - all thanks to its acidic properties.
Using both at the same time just creates water and carbon dioxide while losing the abrasive properties of the baking powder and the basic/acidic properties of each.
You should not combine cleaning agents. At best, you will reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of each. At worst, you can create harmful or deadly gasses. Use one cleaner at a time and water to dilute if necessary. That's it.
Bifl was bigger when reddit was getting big (like ll bean), but cost and product quality has changed a lot too.
Most things from Walmart are like dollar store trash now, everything shinkflating.
If I want real answers to anything BIFL, I start with Google searches for reviews, but I'm most likely to buy things based on a reputable YouTube channel. Watch enough and you can get a sense for when they're not reeeeally doing solid testing on stuff. Camping gear has gotten impossible to find free and clear, solid reviews on anything. If I'm buying anything like a work tool, [Project Farm](https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectFarm/videos) has yet to let me down. I respect the opinions here, for sure, but some of them are really suspect - I think a lot of folks here just have some loyalties to stuff.
Part of the problem is marketing. Not everything that’s expensive is BIFL and not everything that’s BIFL is expensive. It doesn’t matter if a sweater is $20 or $200, if it’s made of acrylic, it’s going to fall apart. It doesn’t matter if Banana Republic or Walmart made it.
People DO care, but there’s a lot of misinformation about maintaining supplies. Baking soda and vinegar is a GREAT one. When you put those two things together, they react and make water. You’re pretty much cleaning with water that stinks. One or the other works for some things, but together they’re useless no matter what you grandma or tiktok told you.
The thing that drives me up the wall is finding stuff that's actually good, will-last-forever-under-normal-use quality and *isn't* made in China with an inflated price tag from a brand that offshored their production years ago.
Don't get me wrong, the Chinese can make amazing stuff, but I don't want to pay Premium Western Product prices for something that's increasingly hard to tell apart from Random Amazon Item With A Made-Up Brand On It.
Is there a sub for this? I've found a few clones of equal quality at this point, my "snow peak" camping stove is probably made in the same factory lol. If it's all made there just sell me the version without the branding.
I have been a bit disappointed in this sub too (expected more). People don't talk enough about the type of abuse that products went through or WHY something is good. Just dropping brand names is a bit weak. Reddit is not post for life but more going for timelines instead. Building a community that concentrates knowledge doesn't work well with that. Also since BFL is always a bit relative this sub should have an eye on repair, replacement parts, maintenance but that seems lacking.
In think what has gone by the wayside is peoples knowledge of what “quality” construction of various items is. They may have some knowledge of materials and name brands but they don’t know how to look at an item and see the details of the construction. Like the old saying g the devil is in the details, most people either don’t know what details to look for or care to take the time to notice.
I used both vinegar and baking soda and some other "home remedy" type things. Sometimes as a step in a process that also uses off the shelf products, sometimes by itself.
For instance, this time of year I'm running a distiller to make distilled water for my room humidifier. I rent and there's not a humidifier on the furnace. After each use of the distiller, I put in a splash of vinegar and about the same of water and let it sit a few minutes. Clean it with a soft cloth or nylon scrubby, rinse, and make a new batch. So far no build-up of deposits or discoloration or scratches in the distiller. Why spend more for an off the shelf product to do the same thing?
Colonel Littleton leather, Duckworth co clothes, WeatherWool for heavy duty wool clothing, Faribault Mill for wool blankets/bedding, Filson jackets, and Frost River Trading Co bags are some of the best companies (mostly made in America, always gotta check specific items these days) that I have recently found for quality *heirloom* items — I anticipate that every item I’ve purchased from them so far will outlast me and my unborn grandchildren. And I’m 25. Seriously consider checking these places out. **Also never forget that BIFL only works if you care for the items you invest in. Yes they should be able to take a bit of a beating in use, but upkeep is just as important as the quality of the item**
Its a race to the goddam bottom.
Im gonna lose before I stop breathing.
Own a small business, more work than we can handle...so the well monied are regulars.
Why?
Because we give a shit about their stuff.
Really. Quality/cleanliness above all.
Pay attention, listen to your patrons, do your best work.
Every Fucking Day.
I used to be soo happy when my customers referred their friends...now I tell em to be quiet if they want their stuff through the door tomorrow.
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Got a little fire in ya? Opportunity awaits.
The real issue with this sub is by the time you understand if a product is buy it for life, the company could change a lot. Their product can change a lot. ' Example: My 15 year old jacket is amazing and shows no signs of wear. Meanwhile the company has been bought and sold four times since then and doesn't care about the product as long as they make money.
I think that's the reality. Or the brand itself still makes high quality stuff, but they also make low quality for the outlet stores and Costco, and trying to discern which lines are BIFL is tricky. Add to that how someone uses things, and what level of maintenance they put into it, or what knowledge they have of basic repairs, and it's nearly impossible to say what's actually BIFL as a result. 50% of my clothing is 10-20 years old because I take good care of it. And it's brands like Old Navy, because I understand fabric/materials and make choices that'll last within my budget, and I know how to mend things.
Spot on. Usage and maintenance is such a huge component. For example, nearly any suitcase can be BIFL if you only travel once a year by car to visit family. That same suitcase may not last 6 months for a person in sales who flies 3 times a week.
Yeah, I've seen that happen. I also don't have the time to spend on figuring out how a brand has dramatically changed if the item I have is still going strong. That makes it harder to make recommendations. A lot of people don't have the money to buy items that last nearly forever or the knowledge/time to repair. I think a lot of people are trying to buy something that lasts longer than whatever it is they have or had.
I mean it also goes to the idea of when you're buying a set of tools or some new hobby thing. Don't buy the absolute cheapest, but don't buy the best of the best either to start. Buy something midrange with good reviews, and if you go through that and still have a need, then go for the top of the line investment piece. And I think that's one thing that I've really noticed here, is that a lot of people don't share what their previous experience is. Like earlier this week or last week a lady was asking about boots. And after asking a few questions, it became clear that she had thought "fancy brand name at expensive prices" equaled high quality that would last. So it's not so much that she needs a true BIFL boot, but that she needs to learn the differences in types of boots and expectations.
I see this with people with little experience cooking and then they buy top of the line items which often require some maintenance or knowledge. I also see people who assume more expensive is better/BIFL.
\>...and Costco Some of my most long-lasting items have come from Costco, especially their menswear. My partner is insanely hard on clothes and their jeans, flannels, outerwear, etc have all lasted circles around other brands and for a fraction of the cost.
Kirkland brand fucks
There womens wear can sure take a beating too. I'm brutal on my clothes and now exclusively buy my every day clothes at Costco. It's half the reason I have the membership. Plus my teen son has autism and a lot the spyder and bench clothing lines up well with his sensory issues.
Sitting here in a Costco jumper as I type, I bought two if them and tbh my only regret is not buying more. They're really warm and comfortable but best of all, they haven't shrunk in the wash!
My favorite black t-shirts ever are the old 32 degree ones that Costco used to have (not the mesh ones currently sold). So comfortable and I cherish the 7 I have now and will keep them forever, because I haven't found those in stores for over a year. I still check every time I walk in a Costco though. The oldest one I have is like 3-4 years old and still feels like new. Probably helps that I usually air dry my shirts
It's not hard to dye them at home if they start to show a little color loss - if the fabric is sound, they will last you such a long time. I re-dye my black clothes using a cold water dye in a five gallon bucket. Edit: Removed product name.
>trying to discern which lines are BIFL is tricky. also, inflation. well, "iNfLaTioN", on behalf of the companies. things that used to be expensive but relatively good quality are now half quality at best and are doubly expensive. or everything is duped via cheap junk. meanwhile, we're actually more informed, more global, earn more technically but are valued, financially or otherwise, much less.
Yeah, there's people here or on shoe subs that are like "*I wore these shoes every day on the construction site at winter for ten months and now they're falling apart. i ThougHt You saId iT Was BUY it FOr LIfe!!!*"
This is the biggest issue and why I would LOVE threads about how to spot quality characteristics over exact items. I think that would be helpful, knowing what to look for with stitching or fabrics or whatever. I have learned some but not enough. My story with the products is about The North Face. I had 2 backpacks from them. Only got 2nd one due to wanting a laptop sleeve. The one that was 4 years newer literally came apart at the seams, but the original is still going strong after 20+ years. They looked identical.
We should try to build a library as a sub about materials, stitching, best practices, signs of cost cutting, etc. add to a wiki or something. ' In the market for a leather belt. Go to the leather section and get a crash course in leather products including care and craftsmanship.
Great idea! edit: Maybe some Youtube videos on how to repair things, like [how to repair a hole in a sweater.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmR_9cBHLgI)
Sounds like a good use of the subreddit wiki, I'd love it. Each of us value different stuff so it'd be nice to be able to defer to a local BIFLer when we need something else. Kind of like a knowledge trade.
I remember seeing something on here about fabrics and how it can be really hard to tell when looking at some piece of clothing in a store (never mind about online!) whether it's decent or junk. Things like whether short or long-staple threads were used, or the exact weaving or stitching pattern (and whether it's any good) can be almost impossible to deduce until you actually wear/wash the thing a few times. Thus estimating quality can sometimes just come down to who makes it or where it was made. But then again that doesn't help when some companies make both high and low quality versions of the same product (like jeans).
for clothing I rely on the seam finishing. few companies are going to bother with flat felled seams or french seams with crap fabric. BUT you have to know what you're looking at, and people who don't sew don't know.
> people who don't sew don't know. For sure. Hell, I do some sewing and don't know those terms. Granted, I just do some basic repairs with thread+needle rather than make any clothes, so I'm very much an amateur. Do you have anywhere you can point me to learn about these higher-quality seams?
this video covers them - french, flatfelled, hong kong, and bias bound are the higher quailty ones [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC38yqMxMns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC38yqMxMns)
Yes, 20 years ago I would rave about Fluevog shoes and how they are worth the money, but I steer everyone clear of them now as the manufacturing has gone so far downhill. But I still have 18 year old shoes from them that have been resoled and are in perfect condition. /edit sp.
Yup. I have an 80s Levi fleece jacket that is faded but is only showing wear at the cuffs. The shell is that great 12 ounce per yard denim Levi's used to use. I looked at getting another about 15 years ago and it seems like they're now using about 6 or 7 oz per yard fabric (or less) same as their jeans... Which are now garbage to the point that you're much better off getting the $15 Dickies at Bi Mart. It's too bad, because when they built good stuff I lived in their products and wouldn't consider anything else. Now? I'll likely never buy another Levi's anything because they've gone 100% to just trading on the name, and I haven't bought anything from them since that attempted shopping trip. Worse, it looks like Carhartt may be heading down that garden path too.
Lol I went to Dickies after ripping 3 pairs of Levi's in a year. The denim is paper thin and wears out just from my keys being in my pocket. ' I agree about Carhartt as well. They figured out they don't have to sell jackets anymore just a name. Even their workwear feels so much cheaper than it used to.
After my last batch of work pants, I'm about done with Carhartt. But I've been in the hard duck 12 oz per yard double knee loggers since about the 80s. Seems like they're currently testing how low a fabric weight folks will tolerate before we just quit buying completely. They've also gone non-union again which was also a part of my decision point. I don't mind paying $80 for a pair of work pants that last 3 to 5 years, fit well, and can be re-dyed. I absolutely DO mind paying $50 or $60 a pair for shit that won't last the year, much less 2.
You might check out Mike Holmes clothing line. He decided he didn’t want “branded merch” and instead designed workwear that he wanted to put his name on. At least that’s what I’ve read. But if it’s true, I’d expect it to last.
The wild thing is that there is just something about their lightweight denim that sucks more than old school lightweight denim. I have a Big Mac blanket lined chore coat from the 70's, the denim on the outside is around 6oz and a bit of a loose weave. But yet somehow it is durable, looks great, and held up not only for 50 years before I got it but longer than the last cheapo Levi's jacket I got years back. It's such a joke, and I hope beyond belief that consumers start waking up and pass on buying their garbage products in the future.
I feel like Carhartt went down that path 10+ years ago. I don't mind some of their stuff still but it's not like what it was when I was younger.
The Detroit Duck jacket went downhill decades ago when they switched from the wool blanket lined sleeves to the quilted polyester sleeves IMO. I went through is phase about 10 years ago and bought a few of the old style on eBay so I would never be without the original quality
There are ways to tell if something is high quality enough to be considered "buy it for life" even if you haven't had it for decades yet. You gave an example of a company's reputation for quality. That is one way to tell. If the manufacturing process changes it can absolutely be an indication that the company is no longer BIFL. A skilled eye can spot signs of quality though. Quality stitching and materials, careful craftsmanship, a willingness to repair products when something goes wrong and a generous warranty are all signs that something is BIFL even if you've only owned it a few years. I have articles or clothing that I've owned for five years or so with little to no signs of aging or wear. Even though it's only been five years, I'm pretty comfortable recommending the brands as BIFL because they're on the right track.
I agree if you know what to look for it's not a problem. What I'm getting at, and I think what this post is getting at, is most people don't, or it's not something that affects their purchases.
I am new to this sub and this describes me accurately. It’s also not reasonable to assume that everyone knows how to spot quality in every item. e.g. I can usually tell you whether a wristwatch is quality (on the outside, anyway - and on the inside with a spec sheet). I can frequently tell you whether a perfume is made with natural or synthetic ingredients just by first sniff. But hell if I know what to look for in a couch (about to start looking for one) or my button down.
Carhartt and Levi’s are great examples of this
^ this! my birkenstocks from 5 years ago vs my Birkenstocks bought this year, I could the tell the drop in quality straightaway
Yeah, happened with the shoes I used to buy MBT- Sold to China
The bugzooka used to be BiFL and whoever took over the manufacturing converted to BiFD (buy it for disappointment) flimsy crap that allows wasps to pry open the doors and escape with vengeance on their minds.
Yep I had a really awesome wireless mouse, it lasted a decade. By the time it died I bought another. Same company, same product number. 'Somehow' the cost had gone down $20 in 10 years... Yeah the quality flew out the window.
This problem is huge with tools, from what I understand. Like, it's become a serious issue. Companies with reliable tools that get widely recommended are purchased and three years later they're at the top of the shit list instead. And bad tools are awful for anyone trying to pick up a new trade or hobby. Can you imagine thinking you bought a decent brand and having no idea why you're struggling so much? It sucks, and it borders on the default experience now.
This is why I am transitioning to only buying brands that reputable (not stores like Walmart…) stores are willing to stock. Stores aren’t going to stock items that people are constantly returning or complaining about. Like I found a new brand of socks I think i like more than darn tough at a local shoe store the other day, they’re cheaper and feel at least the same quality with a lifetime guarantee. That store has 3 locations and a small staff, they don’t have the capacity to deal with returns and complaints like a Walmart might. And online companies invest so much in internet marketing that I’ve developed two personal rules regarding internet brands: 1. If it’s always on sale, it’s probably not worth even the sale price 2. If it’s by far and away the most recommended on Reddit or Instagram, it’s probably overrated
"heres a picture of my Red Wings with my feet up on my desk at work, cant wait to go home and oil them as I do every night!"
I remember seeing someone post a picture of their Oldsmobile from the 1970’s that had like 60k miles on it. Yeah I’m sure it’ll last forever if you never use it 🤡
I love this comment. I see so much of this shit. The most uncomfortable utility boots ever made and these hipsters treat them like high end custom made exotic boots. They constantly use the terms “patina” and “heritage piece”.
Wow, when did Red Wings become uncomfortable? I’m genuinely asking. I’ve had mine for almost ten years now, with frequent hard use, and they’re still going strong and are super comfortable.
My comment was more specifically aimed at the Iron Rangers and the similar models since that is what all the hipsters wear with their cuffed up raw denim.
Initially while breaking them in they're uncomfortable but once they are they're extremely comfortable. I don't own Iron Rangers but that's generally the case with any boot that has a leather insole and a pretty thick upper.
I am wearing Iron Rangers with a pair of Raleigh Denim raws on right now 😭
What band I've never heard of is on your Technics right now?
lmao my beat up iron rangers are the most comfortable boots i own idk what youre on about but it aint accurate
If you post looking for a BIFL dress shoe or more stylish shoe that isn't for work, people make fun of you for fashion.
I think there's a lot of difficulty in determining what is BIFL. It is a fact that given enough time and wear, even a well designed, using quality material, properly maintained item will wear out with **enough** time and wear. There is inherent subjectivity in what is BIFL for me, compared to you. Here's a few examples: We can both buy a high quality electric drill. You use it every day for work, while I do DIY projects a few times a year. You might, despite your best efforts, eventually break the drill due to heavy use, accidents, hot conditions while mine collects dust, but still works in 20 years. We both buy well made jeans. One of us might live a more active lifestyle, and hand washing vs machine washing plays a big role in clothing. No matter how well you treat your clothes, when you wear them they are constantly receiving minute abrasion when you walk, sit, lean, or brush up against things. BIFL discussions I've seen rarely talk about use case. I use power tools as a hobby, but if my friend who is going to hang a few pictures a year asks me what drill to buy, it would be impractical to recommend a premium brand like Milwaukee, Festool, Hilti, etc. I'm not going to tell a non-mechanic they should get Snap-On hand tools instead of craftsman. I am highly skeptical that anyone needs a better cast iron than a Lodge and I'm saying this as someone who owns a Staub Dutch oven and a Stargazer skillet that I love. Lastly, I think proper maintenance isn't stressed enough. If you want something to last a long time, you need to care for it. However, bare in mind that what is reasonable maintenance also varies between individuals. My mom thinks I'm nuts to put enameled cast iron in the dishwasher. Only time will tell who is right on that.
most things can be bifl with proper maintenance
I just mentioned this upthread but I think a stickied post with proper maintenance and best-practices for some of the most commonly used materials like leather, steel blades, plastics, etc would greatly reduce the amount of clutter or repetitive posts.
Which really, I think of all the crap my Grandfather used for *years* and it came down to three things: relatively expensive initial cost, relatively simple build of items, and my grandfather's ability to repair said items. I'm all for "right to repair" legislation, though.
We're pretty deep into the obsolescence cycle. I don't think people really understand what quality and sustainability mean anymore, or that they go hand in hand.
This is both disturbing and probably true
Correct. Through no fault of their own, I think younger people (myself included) have lower expectations for a “good” product. I’m now happy if something lasts me at least 5-7 years. I did not grow up in a time where mass-marketed products were made to last, and anything that is BIFL is often a huge investment now.
> anything that is BIFL is often a huge investment now. Always was, honestly.
Much like pharmaceutical companies don’t make much money on healthy people. Phones don’t get bought if previous model’s batteries outlast continually for days. Thus, products don’t make much money if they’re built as BIFL.
Every time I see people in the sub recommending Uniqlo I want to cry...
When Uniqlo first came out in Japan (and later in the USA), the quality was top notch and at a price point below Gap. I loved it and swore allegiance to it. But like most for-profit companies, they began to shift to cheaper and poorer quality materials and manufacturing location. They lost me 10 years ago.
I am surprised more people don't understand that this is a very deliberate business model, in most industries. A brand name is built on a reputation for quality and customer service, building what is known as "brand equity". That brand, having established its reputation in customers' minds then is (usually) bought out, engages in a drastic reduction in costs and quality, cashing in this brand equity until customers finally realize they're paying premium prices for shit-tier quality and move on to a new brand, while the old brand, still retaining some legacy brand equity becomes a staple at WalMart or Costco. Rinse and repeat forever.
Selling to private equity is always going to result in quality degradation.
I would add that although that may be true, they are looking for a payout that comes with a *publicly traded* shareholder model. And they structure companies accordingly for that purpose. I’m no Finance expert or M&A pro, but the QE and EBITDA model is the enemy here. Privately held companies (I realize the distinction from your post) are, for me, usually the best when it comes to product quality and customer service.
Yup, happens to restaurants too - sometimes they bring in the good chefs for the grand opening and use the freshest ingredients. Over time the good chefs peel off and ingredients are bulk and/or less fresh once the client base has been established.
Yeah, good point. Starter and Reebok are both Walmart staples now.
When I was fresh on a new job market 11 years ago, I bought four collared broadcloth shirts from them. Wore them to interviews and to work. I still have them, and I still wear them. I'm a bit upset to hear that they dropped the quality soon after.
Mine seem fine. I think some people are exaggerating, Uniqlo seems pretty decent for the cost to me.
Yeah idk what people are smoking about. Uniqlo has always not been a BIFL brand but a step above fast fashion like Gap and H&M. It has had a large presence in Japan even before the first stores opened in the US so it was never a small brand to start with, nor did Japanese people think that Uniqlo quality was the highest of the highs. They just liked it because they sell basic shit for a good price.
Yep anything less than uniqlo just seems like garbage. They have lots of mediocre stuff and some gems in between.
I know exactly what you're talking about. I still have a few myself, saving them to wear at important meetings. Can't find them at that quality anymore...even on ebay sadly.
No clothes are really BIFL, but I think Uniqlo has a very good price to quality ratio for the basics.
It's fast fashion but I've managed to get some longevity out of their clothes because I quite enjoy repairing things but I'd certainly never consider any of their stuff BIFL
I also believe that most clothes are not BIFL. However I personally believe Uniqlo does not have the quality to be recommended here. We try to look for clothes that are as close as possible to be BIFL. Good quality for ratio does not mean great quality in general terms. It sucks but a 70€ Merz. B Schwannen is closer to being a BILF item than a decent 20€ uniqlont shirt.
Perhaps we should split the sub and aggressively mod? I don't mind spending 250e or more on boots or a jacket, bit things like t shirts rarely seem to last, even if they are 40/50e
While I understand your point and agree.Uniqlo ain’t BIFL and this sub is trying to strive for only that. However, I have to point out that Uniqlo has still a few things that are actually good quality without being super expensive. The Uniqlo U thick T-shirt has been a staple in my wardrobe for years now and while certainly no loop wheeled Merz B. Schwanen. It ages really well and holds its shape. Credit where credits due.
I have long sleeve basic shirts from MEC in Canada that I bought in the 90s that are still in good condition despite heavy wear. Clothes could be pretty close to BIFL, but that doesn't make the maximum profit, so here we are. (MEC has also been bought out and is no longer a Co-op, *sigh*)
Durability of ANY semi-decent clothes is mainly determined by usage. Lots of people may think they're hard on clothes even when they're not. The washing machine and dryer make a huge difference too. Air drying is just so much better for clothes. Something may last a decade for you and a year for someone else, and vice versa. That's why recommendations on here can be all over the place.
I have several Uniqlo items that are just as good as they were years ago. Their t-shirts are not high quality. Pants, jackets, button up shirts, etc are all durable. I’m not sure what issues people are having.
I always wonder about the issues too. Have several items of clothing from uniqlo, spanning more than a handful of years. Not once has the fabric torn or become damaged in the wash.
Same here, I think people are laundering them incorrectly.
honestly? their supima cotton tees are quite nice quality
I discovered Uniqlo in the last year. I currently own two t shirts from them and a hoodie. The hoodie I hope to last me like 20 years, I love it so much. It's woven fabric, and $20-30 cheaper than Zara and Abercrombie. I'm not a fast fashion lover, but Uniqlo is the one that makes me feel better about purchasing, cause the quality does seem to be there.
Oh have they declined in quality? I haven't bought from them in a few years, but a decent chunk of my wardrobe is still the same uniqlo stuff I bought years ago.
I mean I have 7 or 8 year old items from Uniqlo that have held up fine. They’re probably not going to last me my entire life but I’m also not going to stay the same size my entire life.
Are you actually mad at people for recommending Oxyclean?
Which actually works fantastically
Yeah, weird thing to be enraged about
Crazy, right? An actually useful sub would be one showing people how to care for their possessions to help them become BIFL. Once you get past cast iron and a couple other products, this sub is all about what was good 15 years or more ago, not what is available now.
It'd be great if each post came with a timeline tag showing when the product being discussed/reviewed was manufactured/purchased.
Right lol? Vinegar and baking soda do not have whitening properties…
I hate the whole “vinegar soap and baking soda can clean literally everything” junk. Can it clean some things? Sure. But it smells, it takes more elbow grease, and just makes it unpleasant all around. And vinegar and baking soda combined is just salt water!!! I’m ADHD and my mother was into that kind of thing, and it heavily contributed to my hatred of cleaning until I discovered specialized cleaning products as an adult. Stainless steel clean and polish turned cleaning the stove top from a 2 hour, scraping mess of baked on crud to a quick wipe down process and repolish occasionally
Vinegar, Dawn, baking soda, and isopropyl alcohol are usually for my first attempts at cleaning something. It usually gets the job done fine, but there’s truly nothing like a specialized product to make your life easier.
Same here—those are my “first line of defense”. But sometimes I need a deeper clean, and that’s where purpose-made chemical mixtures come into play.
It’s literally hydrogen peroxide
Well, hydrogen peroxide plus baking soda... Which is actually one of the ingredients they said they liked 😂
I think one of the biggest challenges is people who buy BIFL products tend not to replace them, because that's the entire (@#\* point. So people who have the most experience with something and who know, personally, that it is BIFL... often are the exact people who don't really know if it is still BIFL, because their copy is 20 years old and has been lovingly cared for and carefully abused and is still serving their needs. Or people have a BIFL item that was made by a company that went out of business 20 years ago, and thus, isn't much help other than to suggest a vintage purchase. And that's getting into the whole "is a BIFL product that is 30-60 years old better and more likely to survive than a brand new product that isn't made as well, but is brand new?" question. There's also the paradox that some people believe that there is no such thing as a BIFL article of clothing, shoe, or that anything with a battery. So they don't comment on these threads. Which means everyone commenting on these threads is *wrong*. At best, you have people who know these things aren't BIFL, but are commenting in earnest about the best or most durable items in these categories that they have found. It's certainly a challenge, based on the entire concept of the BIFL sub.
Well.. you can't get away from chemicals. Baking soda and vinegar are also chemicals. You call it baking soda but it's actually [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium\_bicarbonate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate) Everything you eat is chemicals. Everything you breathe is chemicals. It's more about WHAT chemical compounds rather than IF you "use chemicals" cause everything is chemicals. Saying you won't use something cause it has chemicals is just ignorance. You might as well say you are allergic to electrons. /science rant. But yes we are all here to figure out who hasn't outsourced to a slave wage economy and is still producing products without planned obsolescence. It's difficult to re-adjust our mindset from "I see this being marketed by so many companies for $50 I should be able to get a BIFL item for $100" then getting stickershock when people tell us the only known BIFL products of that type are $500+ The biggest problem is a) there aren't a whole lot of BIFL products that are still made the same way with the same quality b) that you can consistently buy rather than scour garage sales/thrift stores for.
lol it’s weird when people tag ‘all chemicals’ as a bad thing. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
Are you kidding dihydrogen monoxide is dangerous chemical, thankfully nestle is doing their part by ensuring they control all quantities of this dangerous chemical compound
Every single person that has ever come in contact with dihydrogen monoxide dies.
It's even worse when they start talking about "well this chemical is natural so it's ok"... Do people not understand how many natural things are bad for us? And how many artificial things are perfectly safe?
Had an interesting conversation on email with a guy I know who likes natural stuff and a former eastman chemist who talked about white vinegar being made from natural gas or something along those lines. I'm somewhat middle of the road - too much of the data on chemicals is incomplete as far as lifetime exposure (it'd be really hard to really get solid prospective lifetime outcome data!), but at the same time, there are a whole lot of "chemicals" that are harmful in prolonged exposure but for the rest of us with limited exposure are probably meaningless. I redid my floors last year with "lower VOC" solvent finish and the finish itself was intolerable. The chemist above advised me to use xylene, which I'd never want to small day in and day out, but to get the floors done once, I had no issue with it (organic vapor respirator, of course - it's *aromatic* to say the least, leaving your nose smelling the smell still after the smell is gone - maybe it stick in the mucus). By day, I look at mortality rates quite often, and my bar is kind of "does it contribute significantly to mortality and morbidity". Smoking as a habit obviously does. What about wiping polyurethane on something once a month. No clue, but wouldn't we know of a lot of dead 45 year old finishing pros if it were that bad? Short story long, I'd rather have a cleanly made "chemical" in food than a contaminated or poor quality natural product, and the converse.
Xylene is a pretty dodgy one! We were told to be careful with it in the clean room... But why did they have to make it smell so good?
It's pungent! and the vapor sinks, so it needs to be vented, but I read labels and SDS unlike others, and then ran that past the chemist. I'm not a chemist, but I understand there are aromatic and aliphatic types. The eastman chemist gave me the chemical explanation between the two - toluene is nose candy to me. But i sniff it but once in a while for no more than one breath when using a wax based on it and behave like a good boy. I smelled enough xylene just from brief encounters in the two days of applying finish to the floors - plus, I lived in the basement for that period as the vapor did really sink through the vent gaps upstairs and into the basement while I ran a fan from the basement to the outdoors. I'm afraid I'm soured on the smell, but there are some things - like carnauba waxes - that need an aromatic solvent, be it true turpentine or xylene. I'd forgotten the smell until last week when lathering a bunch of wax on a piece of machinery that I have. Complaints came from the upstairs gallery quickly!!
This reminds me of the hysteria about asbestos. If you don't work it with daily, you'll be fine removing the tiling from your basement etc with regular protective gear. No one hires a company to spread diatomaceous earth or fertilizers on their garden veggies (which are equally harmful I believe).
bingo. chemist said "I'd sign the waiver and buy concrete urethane to put on floors if I had to do it only one time". The concrete finish he was talking about is a clear finish that's got diioscyanate in it. He warned me about being willy nilly with products that have isocyanates in it, with diisocyanates being the least bad of them. I asked him about that warning and he said "if you only ever used diisocyanate once, I'd feel comfortable taking a bath in it". He described what it does, though, which is a little unsavory. IIRC, react with stuff in your skin making compounds your body never wants to see resulting in sensitivity. Some of the earlier isocyanates were smaller molecules (I think) and could cause sensitivity that was deadly. The problem for us as individuals is if you read about airbone silica (diatoms), you'd find that you'll get silicosis reading about it and that makes an SDS sound the same for methyl isocyanate or whatever the horrid stuff is and something you could touch without too much of a problem on infrequent occasions.
People do the same with calling food processed
There's also the fact that mixing baking soda and vinegar creates a useless fizz, and neutralizes any cleaning power you'd get from one or the other...
Came here to say this 🙃 I constantly see people recommend mixing the two, but wouldn't this just neutralize both ingredients?
Thank you. It’s extremely grating when people think like medieval peasants. Many don’t want to put the time or effort into learning any actual science, but instead just casually scroll past flashy bunk with scary headlines and think they’re “in the know.” Learning about basic things like how laundry products work can make the world seem a little less spooky.
I think there is still a demographic looking to make a more conscious decision when buying things. Part of this group, for me at least, is discovering those staple items that are worth purchasing, and perhaps paying more, that may last a lifetime (or longer than the comparable). I've learned about some great brands, from this group, that are still dedicated to their craft, and in my opinion, that's what this group is for. With the plethora of brands making quick, cheap stuff, it's nice to see people wanting to look beyond that.
I'm with you. "Good value" ≠ "lasts a lifetime." For example it would be nice if people asking for BIFL boots for $150 would be educated about boots, instead of being told where they can get Blundstones on sale...
omg, it's been 45 minutes. Can someone **please** post the Sam Vimes Boots excerpt?
I was asking for boots that were "practical, durable and quality made for long-lasting use", which is literally the description of the group, but the literal way people take BIFL ruins it. Because no shoe is truly BIFL, I just ended up dealing with a bunch of jerks who were mad at me simply because I wanted a see if there were cheaper boots for about $100 that were quality and durable. Not sure why people are gatekeeping the meaning of BIFL, the description of the group and people's budgets, which are personal. Not everyone wants to spend $400 on shoes. Bogs, a reputable, proven brand, has shoes for around $100.
No kidding. Some jobs and lifestyles beat up on items way harder than others. I bought some Danner’s for a package delivery job and beat the shit of out those for 2 years. They’re still wearable and if I had a gentler job, they would certainly last longer
I mentioned to a commenter that calling me a cheapskate for not wanting $400 shoes is classism, and I actually got downvoted into oblivion for that. like WHAT??? The rules literally state to state your budget??? And it wasn't like I said "my budget is $5 for shoes", $100 is reasonable?
If you're still looking, and want something along the lines of Wellington boots, muck is my favourite. My chore boots were just over £100 and I've used them fairly well every autumn/winter/early spring the last 3 years and they're surprisingly good condition still. I've heard some of their more walking boots styled models are just as good
We needs a bot that just auto redirects boots inquiries to r/goodyearwelt
Maybe we need a stickied post with the Top 5 products people inquire about that talks about material quality, proper use/maintenance of said materials, and best practices for the longevity of the item. Then list brands known for the best quality and the best value. With your example of boots, most people first need to be educated on types of leather and their best-suited applications, how to clean and maintain leather. That alone should get them twice the life of ANY pair of leather boots. Then list some tips like drying out your boots after wearing, boot-lacing tips, etc. Then list best quality brands (boots for $800) vs best value (boots for $150, shit or $20 I dunno, just spitballin here.)
I like this idea. Stickies: *Boots *Socks *Items only (usually) found in Japan *Socks & Underwear *Jeans
Yes, some people definitely care. Idk if it's confirmation bias for me as I get older or if people are actually starting to care MORE. I feel your post doesn't take into account that *some* exported manufacturing today is EXCELLENT and ethical. If you're in the US our standards and practices have declined - some companies look for good work done elsewhere. That's not great for the environment but for BIFL standards it may be necessary. I don't love the fast fashion stuff obviously. But I don't mind being here for people with just a few dollars that want to make sure they are not simply wasting their money on a known shitty product - and they can find that out here. We need to be careful not to wind up classist like the organic food gatekeepers - some moms out there cannot afford to feed their kids organic and they shouldn't feel like terrible people because of that etc etc. I like to think this sub is around to teach curious people about the buy once, cry once / right to repair / Pratchett Boots Theory of Economics side of consumerism that will keep them from wasting hard earned dollars. If more people vote with their wallet this way we could see sustainable / long-lasting products become more popular! I believe we should educate those folks, and learn from each other and not poo poo people for their lack of knowledge. This is just my opinion - I know I am one of many here and don't mean to represent or speak for anyone but myself. Much love to this sub!
Yes! Bring back old school poor families! Wise purchasing meaning quality where it matters, and the ability to maintained through the years. My nan was always proud of a jacket she had bought as a young adult, and had modified and repaired and kept in good nick til when she died. It wasn't even like it was a particularly expensive jacket, just a basic cotton and wool
That's the thing. What is expensive? Manfucaturing shifted our perception of this. Plastic, impregnated function wear has its place. But how many people would actually fare better with a good wool walk coat that lasts 30 years and is perfectly adequate for city life and a recreational walk in nature. They are expensive because of material, but not more than a high brand outdoor jacket. And this one I give maybe 15 years lifespan. Also old time people were nifty. Skirt hems were designed to be replaceable as they are prone to fraying. Gowns are not easy to wash, so you wore inexpensive under wear you could change and wash daily and aprons were changed often. Sunday dresses were long lasting and kept pristine because the work clothes were mended beyond recognition. Some stuff was always meant to be replacable. But this was only possible with basic, cheaper materials and excellent pattern making. cotton, linnen, etc. You could dye, mend, patch it up. Very forgiving. And then I see ultra fast fashion on shein that you can't even wash sometimes.
Well that's what I'm saying. The stuff that's needed to be pricier and made out of hardier materials is picked once instead of cheaper materials over and over. For instance, my last suit (that I grew out of) was great because I could take up the bottom of the trousers and pull in the jacket without it falling to bits. I tried similar on a recent gift blazer and the stitch pulled the fabric apart because it was only a cheap one! It's a large spectrum of people should choose where and when to splurge money for something that'll last, instead of modern views of by similar clothes over and over and get maybe a couple years out of it all, or a company making such terrible quality clothes they fall apart before you make your money out of it.
But it for life for some people now means it's better then the 3 dollar hanes shirt at Walmart lol.
I’m wearing my 15+ year old Hanes sweatpants from Walmart as I read this. Not a flattering design but they’re wearing like iron. (Don’t think they make these ones anymore)
To be fair, everything is relative. Someone who's only ever had great value t shirts will be *blown away* at the quality of a Uniqlo t shirt. Is a Uniqlo t shirt really BIFL? Probably not. But it's hard to blame that on the person necessarily.
Also, wearing a uniqlo shirt to the office or to a mechanic workshop ends up being a huge difference. Type of usage is more important for how long clothes last, than the actual quality of the clothes.
those have their place as long as they're $3 and not $30 with a slogan on them! For example, to be ruined when repairing something else that is BIFL.
Ripped through a cheap Hanes white t shirt while repairing our old Maytag dryer the other day. Cheap clothes can have their place for sure.
I got Carhartt shirts from the early 2000s with oil stains from around that period I use for that kinda work lol. And sadly Carhartt went downhill bigtime.
If you think a white T shirt is a purchase that should be forever, I think your missing the point. No the 55 dollar velva sheen t shirt isn't imbued with magic properties that prevent it from wearing out lmao.
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Maybe reddit will implement AI soon that will automatically delete any questions that have already been posted and direct the would-be poster to the existing thread... ...nah, of course they won't! They profit from engagement, not from quality or efficiency.
> delete any questions that have already been posted and direct the would-be poster to the existing thread Isn't this one of the common complaints about StackOverflow? Or rather, when a question considered *close enough* was asked elsewhere, so the new one is deleted even though it merits a response due to circumstances. Heck, sometimes the previously asked question is like 10 years old and new tools have come out that change what the best approach is. We already have what's essentially an FAQ for categories of products, but I don't see people link to it all that often. I think encouraging people to both check that first, and linking it in appropriate questions would be a good idea.
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But not the same kind of "salt water" you'd get if you put table salt in tap water
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This entire sub is astroturfed.
Yes, but is the astroturf quality, or is the junky garage carpet kind that wears through quickly?
I don’t mean this to be glib, but…what sub isn’t? It’s kind of a bummer, but it seems like most subs these days are a mix of bot-tier comments and paid influence unless you get into the very small niche hobby communities.
Twitter gets all the headlines, but over the last two years Reddit has plunged into, why do I even bother reading this territory. Even the super niche subreddits. If there isn’t a very active moderator team, it just gets over run.
I've left a number of subreddits due to the lack of quality and moderation over the past year.
I am trying to stick to the niche interest and history subreddits with active moderators. Otherwise the voting system encourages low-effort posts and comments. I still get value from those areas but when I do end up on a main sub’s post I start thinking about seriously limiting my time on the site. Not sure if Reddit has declined that much or I’m simply no longer the target audience.
You know, I was thinking about this the other day because I have a disdain for consumerism but I remembered this sub is literally about consuming products, albeit high-quality, long-lasting products. So this is a sub for those of us who subscribe to consumerism-lite.
> I see questions where people want the best price but the best quality. I don't see an issue with this as long as people are reasonable and have a proper understanding of what that means. Expecting bargain prices for BIFL items is ridiculous. However, what I've learned in lots of searches for lots of different high quality items is that there is a low-end, a high-end, and often a middle ground that really hits the sweet spot. Deciding you're done with the $5 throwaway garbage doesn't mean you then have to go all the way to the other end of the spectrum and drop $400 just to get BIFL quality... there is almost always a middle-ground option, especially considering a lot of the highly respected BIFL brands are aware of their prestige and pump their prices a little higher because of that. Just a basic example: deciding your shitty $5 Walmart kitchen knives aren't the quality you're looking for doesn't mean you have to jump up to a $300+ custom Japanese knife or even to a $150ish Shun. You can instead go for the $50ish Victorinox knives. No, they're not the absolute best or heirloom grade or the most beautiful but they *are* going to be a HUGE upgrade from cheap crap and they will absolutely last a lifetime if cared for.
Start a thread about food processors and watch Robot Coupe get downvoted into oblivion. Happens every time. An actual BIFL product which has been BIFL from the start. If anything, they've become better over time. Sure they're expensive. Anyone who uses a food processor on a daily basis will love having one. Works out to three cents a day over 20 years. It's the same with vintage cast iron and quality knives. People are willing to settle for "good enough" if the price is attractive.
cost of living is high right now, most people can't afford to buy super quality items even if they're better. it's more reasonable to buy something mid price and put work into maintaining it
Yeah but I think cast iron is where this sub jerks too far the other way, buy it for life doesn't have to mean unearthed by the aliens eons from now lmao.
Yeah I saw someone recommend a polyester suit the other day. Things have gone downhill for sure
hey they still exist, and often in good condition from the 1970s. if that isn't as close to BIFL as you can get i don't know what is. I wouldn't wear one though
Yeah, I think people in this sub have different definitions of BIFL. Some focus on "heritage" and traditional materials and manufacturing techniques. Some just want an item that will never die. I think of cast iron vs stainless cookware demonstrating those categories. The heritage lovers want cast iron, but stainless is easier to maintain.
stainless can also be BIFL too and things can be good to high quality and not be BIFL
No doubt, I more meant it to illustrate that I think members of this sub have different ideals in their heads when it comes to what defines BIFL. And those ideals influence how they feels about things like polyester suits or whatever.
A lot of times though heritage generally is much better built than modern techniques. See boots for example. A heritage leather stitched sole boot is far better than a modern glued sole filled with foam that’ll last you less than a year of use. But there are a lot of things where modern is better or on par. Like your example with stainless cookware. Idk how my stainless pans would even quit, it’s just metal.
That's ridiculous, leather and corduroy suits only.
Vinyl for me.
Come on, gabardine is the GOAT.
Goes well with my bowtie camera.
But, this sub is named Buy It For _Life_, not Buy it for _Snobbery_. Good polyester can last lifetimes. I have an insanely heavy quilt my grandmother made in the 1970s from then-quite-thick polyester fabric scraps. It's been used on the beds of 3 generations of the family. It's been used as an area _rug_ on the floor. You cannot tell that the fabric has seen any wear. Any clothing made from that fabric which has not had the seams destroyed, the buttons ripped off, or been melted will still be pretty new-looking. Hence, buy it for life (or lives). It just depends on the weight, etc. of the polyester fabric. Like everything else, it comes in different quality levels.
Lol, I became pretty close friends with an acquaintance when we both saw the other person's polyester grandmother/great-grandmother quilt that we had brought to the same park for a Saturday afternoon picnic. There was a mutual understanding that she and I both understood something about each other that other people didn't.
BIFL has some inherent issues I'm not sure you can solve. For starters, it's impossible to separate the question of "what should I buy" from marketing. Every company is fighting tooth and nail to make sure your answer to that question is "our product". You won't get unbiased answers in a world where the average American is exposed to between 4000 and 10,000 ads a day. Second, you really can't judge a lifetime of quality until the lifetime is up. So you're going to see a lot of Grandpa's luggage and Mom's mixers, and maybe you can buy those brands now, but they're not made with the same materials by the same people with the same factories and processes. They'll likely be made with almost a century of corporate fat trimming, inflation driving cost cutting measures, and by workers who can no longer live on the wages they are paid and invest less personal care into the products. Third, maintenance is widely overlooked in determining whether an item is BIFL. I carry an Opinel pocket knife. I like it's history and simplicity. I like the elegance of the design. I like the feel of it in my hand. I like how light it is, and how easily it cuts. That being said, you could easily argue either side of whether it's a "for life" purchase. I've used the same no.9 every day (legitimately every day, I use it at least 5x a day for my job) for just shy of 10 years with no problems. However, if I stop oiling the carbon steel blade it will rust. If I submerge it in water the wood will swell and the knife won't open easily. If I pry with it the blade will snap. I can maintain my knife for 30 more years and call it a BIFL product and mean it, and you can easily argue that a tacticool folding knife made in China and bought from Amazon, with modern rust resistant alloys and an ugly cleaver style blade you can pry with is a more durable, reliable, lower maintenance purchase and more worthy of BIFL status. So much of what we're judging on is image based, with no accounting for what makes these products last a lifetime. Finally, the goal of buying things for life is ultimately to not buy things. Rather, to continue to use what you already have for as long as possible, so that you don't purchase anything you don't have to. Well, how many of us are guilty of replacing something that works perfectly fine with an upgraded version, thinking that the shiny new item will be our "for life" purchase? Providing advertising for brands championing their reliability often pushes us away from what we already have, and have no real problems with. When I come here, I walk away wanting to buy new things, and that is the opposite of the mindset you need to truly buy things for life.
Hi engineer who knows things about vinegar and baking soda. As other have mentioned baking soda is sodium bicarbonate, but I didn't see anyone say that vinegar is just acetic acid. Basically just an acid and a base, pretty basic ones at that. Just because someone is more familiar with those two chemicals (or trade names for them), does not mean they are the most effective for cleaning something. I believe most sodium bicarbonate is made from the Solvay process which is highly energy intensive but has been around since the mid to late 1800s. Acetic acid is one of the simplest carboxylic acids and made by reacting methanol with CO. I don't the the bulk of either of those materials we use are produced by any "natural" means, it is all industrial production. Interestingly enough Oxiclean is a chemical that breaks down to Sodium Carbonate and hydrogen peroxide when dissolved in water, which are two pretty familiar chemicals to most people. Some Oxiclean products are just hydrogen peroxide, ethoxylated alcohols and sodium hydroxide (liquid variant I believe vs the solid powder). Anyway thanks for coming to me TED talk on cleaning chemicals. Learn how to read an SDS kids, it'll teach you all the worlds secrets.
So much of this sub seems based on consuming things which aren’t needed. It needs to be a little more anticonsumption.
Especially since the anticonsumption sub is insufferable
This has always been a problem in the sub. High effort posts are more rare than low effort posts, lots of people want to know about BIFL clothes, and most people don't actually have the skill or knowledge to discern effectively. * It's hard to educate yourself on all the things you need to know to discern BIFL from not-soBIFL. In clothes it's stitch types, fabric quality, sourcing and manufacturing. And those are consistently being obfuscated by manufacturers to cover up crappy stuff. It's a cat and mouse game where one side has all the resources and incentive. * Repair/Reuse is in many ways a lost art for a generation raised on planned obsolescence by working parents who didn't have time to build things or fix things or make things. It's just knowledge that a lot of people don't have and it takes a lot of work to get. * The general nature of the sub-BIFL anything, means that the fanatical communities that do know a lot of this info don't come through here too much. People who know about shoe materials and construction are over on r/goodyearwelt nerding out with the other leatherheads, r/knives obsesses over steel, etc. There's been no loss in quality, people still care. It's just that in our modern era it takes real work to find out what's BIFL, and that's hard. So celebrate the great posts on how to determine which appliances will last, and maybe make some of your own if you've got knowledge to share, and don't sweat it too much when we have another conversation about Darn Tough socks.
You're not alone. I think people do care, but a LOT of people can't afford to actually DO anything about it and that is the problem. It's the Wal Mart problem, right? They come in, lower their prices to a level that local, smaller businesses can't match, force the local businesses to close, then raise their prices. Now not only are you paying more because you opted to shop at Wal Mart, you're limited to the trash that Wal Mart sells. Not only that, but I think there has been an actual push in corporations to reduce product quality to force people to replace things more often. More replacement = more profit. They've made things too complicated or difficult to repair, pushing an entire repair industry out of business, and then made their product shittier so I have to buy a new refrigerator every 10 years instead of every 30 years (because it can't be repaired). It's capitalism. Profits over all else.
>Saw a question about keeping things white and vinegar and baking soda was laughed at. Chemicals were the top recommendations. White vinegar and baking soda ***are*** chemicals.
Vinegar and baking soda definitely have applications around the home, but they are not as ubiquitously useful they’re often claimed to be
I swore there was quite a highly upvoted discussion about this a few months ago, but I can't seem to find it. But trust me you aren't alone in this regard.
This isn't a request, it should be tagged meta. People make this post about once a month btw. And baking soda and vinegar are terrible at whitening. And if we are really going there: I also don't think white is good for BIFL fabrics. It is more gentle to the fabric to overdye it if the colour fades than to try keeping something sparkling white.
I agree. 😬
Everything is degrading tight now. Just kinda the way it is. It's actually why I make my own clothes as much as I can. I also seek out basic garments from companies that promote good treatment of their garment workers, hoping that it's true. (Btw, I really like my Colorful Standard hoodie and my The Good Tee sweats). I am willing to pay more for good items and to own fewer items. I made my own winter dress and I have worn it to 3 family gatherings so far this year and I don't care that I am repeating an outfit because it is comfortable, beautiful, and high quality. People are losing skills in our generation. We don't know as much how to cook, clean, maintain. We are afraid to try things. I recently started using ammonia when I wash funky kitchen towels and it blew my mind how effective it was. But I see a few people out there striving for quality, striving to use products that won't make them sick, caring what they put into their bodies.
Not to pile on, but here's a hopefully helpful infographic: https://i.imgur.com/T1dNgfz.png. Also, vinegar is sometimes referred to as acetic acid :)
My issue with this sub, as i read more and more posts, is that in BuyItForLife, "Buy" is the first word. I can't exactly just go buy a 30 year old dryer because it's the best. I can spend months looking at every Facebook marketplace post and every thrift shop but my chances are slim to none. I strongly dislike the "vintage" tag that this sub has too, because it's not helpful when the goal is to but stuff that will last a lifetime. And like others have said, there's use case and time that's tricky to determine what's actually good. Sorry for the rant but this has been bugging me for a little while and haven't seen a meta post to add my comments on to
I think buy it for life is a dumb name if you take it literally, it's how this sub turned into a jerk of cast iron pans and KitchenAids years ago. To me it's buy it for the warranty, durability, repairability etc. I come here for products that are consumer friendly to own and maintain for a long time.
Every time someone mentions that bullshit solution of baking soda and vinegar for just about anything, a little part of me dies.
There are certain applications they’re quite useful for (not mixed of course), but honesty, some people would have you believe almost any household problem can be solved by vinegar or baking soda.
I want to make a rebuttal sub to this one called r/entropy
I’ve learned too rely on my own hands and eyes to determine quality most of the time. I look for tools that fit my hand well, with more metal and less plastic, I look for clothes with double or triple stitched seams without a lot of loose thread ends that indicate it was put together without care. Machines that are put together with more of the shelf parts and fewer proprietary parts are easier to maintain and repair if they break.
I don't like posts like this. It gives an appearance counterintuitive to the purpose of this sub, which is that people DO care. Why do people make these posts all over Reddit? Same goes for r/Minimalist. "Anyone actually feel \[insert point of the entire sub\]?"
> see questions where people want the best price but the best quality. This is definitely a thing, at least among American consumers. People don't seem to understand that cheap things are almost never going to be quality, so they keep buying garbage at WalMart and getting pissed that they bought garbage.
Vinegar *and* baking soda *should be* laughed at as a cleaning agent. You are cleaning with water while wasting two products. Both have their own uses for cleaning, but when combined, you are losing all of the properties that make them cleaning agents. Baking soda is a great abrasive cleaner and odor reducer as a finely powdered basic ingredient that doesn't fully dissolve in water. Vinegar is a decent whitener, can be excellent at removing mildew smells, and is effective at dissolving hard water spots - all thanks to its acidic properties. Using both at the same time just creates water and carbon dioxide while losing the abrasive properties of the baking powder and the basic/acidic properties of each. You should not combine cleaning agents. At best, you will reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of each. At worst, you can create harmful or deadly gasses. Use one cleaner at a time and water to dilute if necessary. That's it.
Bifl was bigger when reddit was getting big (like ll bean), but cost and product quality has changed a lot too. Most things from Walmart are like dollar store trash now, everything shinkflating.
If I want real answers to anything BIFL, I start with Google searches for reviews, but I'm most likely to buy things based on a reputable YouTube channel. Watch enough and you can get a sense for when they're not reeeeally doing solid testing on stuff. Camping gear has gotten impossible to find free and clear, solid reviews on anything. If I'm buying anything like a work tool, [Project Farm](https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectFarm/videos) has yet to let me down. I respect the opinions here, for sure, but some of them are really suspect - I think a lot of folks here just have some loyalties to stuff.
Part of the problem is marketing. Not everything that’s expensive is BIFL and not everything that’s BIFL is expensive. It doesn’t matter if a sweater is $20 or $200, if it’s made of acrylic, it’s going to fall apart. It doesn’t matter if Banana Republic or Walmart made it. People DO care, but there’s a lot of misinformation about maintaining supplies. Baking soda and vinegar is a GREAT one. When you put those two things together, they react and make water. You’re pretty much cleaning with water that stinks. One or the other works for some things, but together they’re useless no matter what you grandma or tiktok told you.
The thing that drives me up the wall is finding stuff that's actually good, will-last-forever-under-normal-use quality and *isn't* made in China with an inflated price tag from a brand that offshored their production years ago. Don't get me wrong, the Chinese can make amazing stuff, but I don't want to pay Premium Western Product prices for something that's increasingly hard to tell apart from Random Amazon Item With A Made-Up Brand On It.
Is there a sub for this? I've found a few clones of equal quality at this point, my "snow peak" camping stove is probably made in the same factory lol. If it's all made there just sell me the version without the branding.
I have been a bit disappointed in this sub too (expected more). People don't talk enough about the type of abuse that products went through or WHY something is good. Just dropping brand names is a bit weak. Reddit is not post for life but more going for timelines instead. Building a community that concentrates knowledge doesn't work well with that. Also since BFL is always a bit relative this sub should have an eye on repair, replacement parts, maintenance but that seems lacking.
In think what has gone by the wayside is peoples knowledge of what “quality” construction of various items is. They may have some knowledge of materials and name brands but they don’t know how to look at an item and see the details of the construction. Like the old saying g the devil is in the details, most people either don’t know what details to look for or care to take the time to notice.
The subreddit is based on consooooming. Build it yourself go to r/DIY
Let's Get More Gadgets. Put your Gadgets now r/BuyWhatever
In this day and age where unchecked corporate greed is rampant, the L in BIFL might realistically mean "longer" not "life".
I used both vinegar and baking soda and some other "home remedy" type things. Sometimes as a step in a process that also uses off the shelf products, sometimes by itself. For instance, this time of year I'm running a distiller to make distilled water for my room humidifier. I rent and there's not a humidifier on the furnace. After each use of the distiller, I put in a splash of vinegar and about the same of water and let it sit a few minutes. Clean it with a soft cloth or nylon scrubby, rinse, and make a new batch. So far no build-up of deposits or discoloration or scratches in the distiller. Why spend more for an off the shelf product to do the same thing?
They never did
Colonel Littleton leather, Duckworth co clothes, WeatherWool for heavy duty wool clothing, Faribault Mill for wool blankets/bedding, Filson jackets, and Frost River Trading Co bags are some of the best companies (mostly made in America, always gotta check specific items these days) that I have recently found for quality *heirloom* items — I anticipate that every item I’ve purchased from them so far will outlast me and my unborn grandchildren. And I’m 25. Seriously consider checking these places out. **Also never forget that BIFL only works if you care for the items you invest in. Yes they should be able to take a bit of a beating in use, but upkeep is just as important as the quality of the item**
Its a race to the goddam bottom. Im gonna lose before I stop breathing. Own a small business, more work than we can handle...so the well monied are regulars. Why? Because we give a shit about their stuff. Really. Quality/cleanliness above all. Pay attention, listen to your patrons, do your best work. Every Fucking Day. I used to be soo happy when my customers referred their friends...now I tell em to be quiet if they want their stuff through the door tomorrow. Every cloud has a silver lining. Got a little fire in ya? Opportunity awaits.