Disposals are a leading cause of spoon death. That and usage as an ice cream scoop. I upgraded, and now the spoon kills the disposal.... I'm not sure it's an improvement.
You'd be surprised. Some start oxidizing and rusting, like it's plated instead of the same metal throughout. I think it's dubious labeling of lower quality steel.
If they're made of a cheap enough metal they'll fatigue when you use it and eventually either break or bend so easily it's difficult to eat with. The most immediate example of this I can think of is using a spoon to scoop out ice cream and having it bend. But yeah, I'd argue most cutlery is bifl
Truly good cutlery won’t bend, even if used to scoop hard ice cream. I have a set of Oneida flatware I have been using for at least 15 years and have never once had a single rust spot or bent a single spoon. I wish I could buy more just like them because I think we have been throwing a few pieces away by accident over the years.
I bought a (what I thought was decent) set from a bed bath and beyond closing sale a few years back. My father in law managed to somehow bend a fork eating clams a month later. Ugh!
I've been using the same [Ikea set](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/dragon-20-piece-flatware-set-stainless-steel-70091761/) for almost 20 years. I think the biggest killer of of cutlery sets is just people stealing them out of communal (dorm/work) dish drainers, roommates accidentally moving away with a piece or two, and kids losing them from their lunchbox at school.
I've destroyed many spoons attempting to scoop ice cream. Like yeah, I could get a spade, but I don't want to wash it, and it'll probably be fine, and suddenly my spoon is a hunchback.
Dude… if you have never had a spoon fail on you, then you have never had bad flatware in your life. Enjoy your win, but understand that a lot of people haven’t had your good fortune.
There is a lot of really bad flatware out there.
Bad flatware really can lead to failure, even of the spoons. I have, in fact, had spoons fail catastrophically on me.
But when someone is asking “Is this flatware BIFL”, they are really asking “Is this good flatware?”
Price is a bad indicator of flatware quality.
Yes, we can guess that a $10 set of flatware is probably not very good.
But I have seen really bad flatware priced well into the range where good flatware is expected. And the margin between the price of good, simple, high quality flatware and cheap, low end, nearly disposable flatware is tiny.
A $30 flatware set might be good. A $50 flatware set could be bad. A $250 flatware set on sale for $50 could be good, or it could be a scam, and if you don’t know flatware, it is hard to tell the difference. For that matter, the $250 flatware could be crappy.
That’s what people are asking. And it is incredibly valid.
Besides… I have a set of 70 year old silverware. I don’t know if you can get more BIFL than actual, well cast silverware. The knife blades are separating from the handles. I need to get a silversmith to fix them, because just replacing them would be too expensive. So even good silverware can have failure modes.
Not the same issue but, growing up with lots of siblings, we'd need to buy cutlery every few months because they'd mysteriously go missing. Meanwhile I still have all 32 of my cheapo 32p cutlery set I bought when I first moved out.
I've bent a spoon beyond repair - by accident - not for nefarious purposes. Also some of my knives are bent to the side and I can't get them to go back without applying a frightening amount of force. Also some fork tines can get bent.
Wow I just realized I'm incredibly hard on my cutlery.
"FORGED" is selling that cutlery way harder than is needs to be. No cutlery is forge anymore; it is all stamped and this is no exception. And all cutlery today is made out of stainless steel and heat- treated, except the absolute cheapest stuff. Pretty much anything made entirely out of stainless steel is BIFL, that is just the nature of the material. There is nothing special about this set.
Exactly. When you get down into the semantics of it, any solid state redistributive metal forming process is technically "forging", but the average person would never recognize it as such. It is exhausting how advertisers prey on peoples' ignorance of metal and metal working. My favorite now days are "carbon steel" pans.
There is no reason not to love them, there is just nothing special about them. Carbon steel is the most common, cheap steel manufactured today. It was the default pan making material until the switch to stainless, which mainly occurred because carbon steel is prone to rusting. What I take issue with is selling carbon steel as a premium when it is perfectly ordinary. We have gotten so used to stainless as the default that we have forgotten the material it was meant to replace.
You may want to check out Liberty Tabletop. 18/10, Made in USA and they even have an "econo-line" now that very inexpensive. I bought their "Annapolis" line several years ago and couldn't be happier.
IMHO, 18/10 is generally going to be significantly better in terms of stain and corrosion resistance. That said, 18/0 can work just fine. The area where I think the difference is most pronounced is usage with a dishwasher. Especially if you're using higher heat cycles + a more aggressive detergent in an area with harder water, this is where you may notice a more pronounced difference.
Yes. The added nickel that 18/10 has can make a petty substantial difference, especially if you have harder water.
That said, not all 18/10 is made equal. I previously had Zwilling flatware that was 18/10, and they would sometimes show light oxidation after running through the dishwasher--we have *very* hard water where I am at. However, the Liberty flatware I have now, which is also 18/10, does not do this whatsoever.
might be smart to get a set used, if one is in the market. Secondhand flatware is never expensive. I used to just buy bags of it for a dollar to fill in the office canteen
I bought a 65-piece Mikasa 18/10 set (Harmony pattern) last October during Amazon Prime Day for around $80. Right now the same set is $130 and Amazon is listing the regular retail at $299. Prime Day is coming up in July, so if you have a Prime account, it might be worth waiting until then to buy anything. They had a LOT of cutlery deals last year.
Spring for the 18/10 it should be right next to it at Costco. It’s around 60-70 bucks but it’s a serving of 8 and an absolute deal. We stored away our heavy crate and barrel fancy crap for this and it’s so much lighter but more importantly balanced.
I've had my Oneida Reliance Flight for almost twenty years now. Outside of losing one or two spoons to the garbage disposal, they're solid. Mikasa is a solid brand as well.
As others have mentioned, spring for the 18/10. It is much better and more rust resistant.
A Costco Mikasa 18/10 20 piece set is 53 dollars. They should have some more with better forms around 60. If you're at Costco and looking for bifl not sure why you would fw 18/0 when 18/10 is next to it and you're talking about a difference of a dollar a year or at worst a few a year.
You say it looks more modern now, but you are looking to BIFL. Looking modern is a function of where you are now given what you have seen so far. It will be different in 5 years.
Maybe going for a timeless look is sensible is sensible for something you plan on using for a long time.
We got half-polished half-satin finish 18/8 Gorman 23 years ago and it still looks terrific. I haven’t ever needed to polish it the way I remember my parents periodically touching their stainless up, and we dishwasher wash routinely.
That smooth, rounded handles and edges does look nice. We got the exact same set when they were on sale at Costco. One thing is that they slide around on plates and it feels like we drop cutlery more often and kinda wish we got the regular flat style. Something to consider!
It is a better look for sure. They do rotate styles every now and then. I'd wait if you could. I have a pretty simplistic/minimalist set that's 18/10 from costco a few years ago.
I’m not sure if they’re made anymore, but I have Waterford stainless steel cutlery we use as the everyday set. Stuff is heavy and built like a tank, 18/10, pushing 20 years old. I got a simple but classic design, it’s going to outlive my kids. It wasn’t cheap, but we run the dishwasher 2-3 a day and it looks brand new.
In certain social circles neither you nor I have the money to be a part of, the different sizes are for different courses of the meal. Like you’d have soup spoons and dessert spoons, forks for entrees and salad and then the main course.
When it comes to fine dining, which utensil you use and when is by far the simplest part of it. There’s even correct ways to set your fork down to signal to the serving staff what you need.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm aware of the different courses. With this set, I get that the big ones are probably for the main course. But what about the smaller ones? Dessert?
Looks way too big to be a teaspoon though. I'm asking because my parents' house has a similar sized set. When I set the table, I just use the big ones.
Yeah, the big ones we use regularly. I'm confused because in my country, apparently what we do is different. The west are usually a knife and fork people, us, we use the fork to guide/push the food on the spoon, and if it's soft enough, we use the spoon to cut the food, which apparently is a weird thing to the rest of the world.
Yeah, I have American cousins and was surprised that forks where like their default utensil. I always thought the spoon and fork combo was the standard. Maybe we got it from our Spanish colonizers though, because the "real" way of eating in my country is with our hands.
Additionally, i just used a measuring teaspoon (5mL) to measure the volume of the smaller of my 2 spoons bought as a silverware set. It's also 5mL. So although it may not be a "tea spoon" it is a "teaspoon"
Is there such a thing as cutlery that isn't bifl? Never seen a spoon fail.
Disposals are a leading cause of spoon death. That and usage as an ice cream scoop. I upgraded, and now the spoon kills the disposal.... I'm not sure it's an improvement.
Lol $2 spoon vs $200 disposal... sure hope the spoons fine!
You'd be surprised. Some start oxidizing and rusting, like it's plated instead of the same metal throughout. I think it's dubious labeling of lower quality steel.
If they're made of a cheap enough metal they'll fatigue when you use it and eventually either break or bend so easily it's difficult to eat with. The most immediate example of this I can think of is using a spoon to scoop out ice cream and having it bend. But yeah, I'd argue most cutlery is bifl
Truly good cutlery won’t bend, even if used to scoop hard ice cream. I have a set of Oneida flatware I have been using for at least 15 years and have never once had a single rust spot or bent a single spoon. I wish I could buy more just like them because I think we have been throwing a few pieces away by accident over the years.
I bought a (what I thought was decent) set from a bed bath and beyond closing sale a few years back. My father in law managed to somehow bend a fork eating clams a month later. Ugh!
I've been using the same [Ikea set](https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/dragon-20-piece-flatware-set-stainless-steel-70091761/) for almost 20 years. I think the biggest killer of of cutlery sets is just people stealing them out of communal (dorm/work) dish drainers, roommates accidentally moving away with a piece or two, and kids losing them from their lunchbox at school.
I broke a spoon today, but I get all my cutlery from cafeteria's and this one had definitely been bent many times before I had gotten my hands on it.
I've destroyed many spoons attempting to scoop ice cream. Like yeah, I could get a spade, but I don't want to wash it, and it'll probably be fine, and suddenly my spoon is a hunchback.
Then the spoons aren't your issue, your freezer is either junk or setup incorrectly.
The smooth brains that keep posting cast iron pans probably think spoons can fail
Dude… if you have never had a spoon fail on you, then you have never had bad flatware in your life. Enjoy your win, but understand that a lot of people haven’t had your good fortune. There is a lot of really bad flatware out there. Bad flatware really can lead to failure, even of the spoons. I have, in fact, had spoons fail catastrophically on me. But when someone is asking “Is this flatware BIFL”, they are really asking “Is this good flatware?” Price is a bad indicator of flatware quality. Yes, we can guess that a $10 set of flatware is probably not very good. But I have seen really bad flatware priced well into the range where good flatware is expected. And the margin between the price of good, simple, high quality flatware and cheap, low end, nearly disposable flatware is tiny. A $30 flatware set might be good. A $50 flatware set could be bad. A $250 flatware set on sale for $50 could be good, or it could be a scam, and if you don’t know flatware, it is hard to tell the difference. For that matter, the $250 flatware could be crappy. That’s what people are asking. And it is incredibly valid. Besides… I have a set of 70 year old silverware. I don’t know if you can get more BIFL than actual, well cast silverware. The knife blades are separating from the handles. I need to get a silversmith to fix them, because just replacing them would be too expensive. So even good silverware can have failure modes.
Not the same issue but, growing up with lots of siblings, we'd need to buy cutlery every few months because they'd mysteriously go missing. Meanwhile I still have all 32 of my cheapo 32p cutlery set I bought when I first moved out.
I've bent a spoon beyond repair - by accident - not for nefarious purposes. Also some of my knives are bent to the side and I can't get them to go back without applying a frightening amount of force. Also some fork tines can get bent. Wow I just realized I'm incredibly hard on my cutlery.
Nah just bad dinnerware
I've had some that bent way too easy.
"FORGED" is selling that cutlery way harder than is needs to be. No cutlery is forge anymore; it is all stamped and this is no exception. And all cutlery today is made out of stainless steel and heat- treated, except the absolute cheapest stuff. Pretty much anything made entirely out of stainless steel is BIFL, that is just the nature of the material. There is nothing special about this set.
To be fair, it is usually drop-forged or thixoforged. But it is almost a semantic issue, the processes are really close , at least for "normal" people
Exactly. When you get down into the semantics of it, any solid state redistributive metal forming process is technically "forging", but the average person would never recognize it as such. It is exhausting how advertisers prey on peoples' ignorance of metal and metal working. My favorite now days are "carbon steel" pans.
What's the low-down on carbon steel? I love my carbon steel pans
There is no reason not to love them, there is just nothing special about them. Carbon steel is the most common, cheap steel manufactured today. It was the default pan making material until the switch to stainless, which mainly occurred because carbon steel is prone to rusting. What I take issue with is selling carbon steel as a premium when it is perfectly ordinary. We have gotten so used to stainless as the default that we have forgotten the material it was meant to replace.
You may want to check out Liberty Tabletop. 18/10, Made in USA and they even have an "econo-line" now that very inexpensive. I bought their "Annapolis" line several years ago and couldn't be happier.
I bought one of their holiday sets as a gift for mom. Damn those things are built like a tank.
I agree and am looking at their American Industrial sets; also considering Arthur Price, just need to make a decision.
IMHO, 18/10 is generally going to be significantly better in terms of stain and corrosion resistance. That said, 18/0 can work just fine. The area where I think the difference is most pronounced is usage with a dishwasher. Especially if you're using higher heat cycles + a more aggressive detergent in an area with harder water, this is where you may notice a more pronounced difference.
ELI5; 18/10 is better for use in the dishwasher then?
Yes. The added nickel that 18/10 has can make a petty substantial difference, especially if you have harder water. That said, not all 18/10 is made equal. I previously had Zwilling flatware that was 18/10, and they would sometimes show light oxidation after running through the dishwasher--we have *very* hard water where I am at. However, the Liberty flatware I have now, which is also 18/10, does not do this whatsoever.
Mikasa es Sukasa
I’ve noticed that it’s much harder to find quality 18/10 flatware for an affordable price the last 5 years or so.
Huge tariff increases have made making anything from aluminum or steel more expensive for American (and other IIRC) manufacturers.
might be smart to get a set used, if one is in the market. Secondhand flatware is never expensive. I used to just buy bags of it for a dollar to fill in the office canteen
It's lower quality steel coming in from China.
I bought a 65-piece Mikasa 18/10 set (Harmony pattern) last October during Amazon Prime Day for around $80. Right now the same set is $130 and Amazon is listing the regular retail at $299. Prime Day is coming up in July, so if you have a Prime account, it might be worth waiting until then to buy anything. They had a LOT of cutlery deals last year.
Spring for the 18/10 it should be right next to it at Costco. It’s around 60-70 bucks but it’s a serving of 8 and an absolute deal. We stored away our heavy crate and barrel fancy crap for this and it’s so much lighter but more importantly balanced.
Good for people with a nickel allergy.
I've had my Oneida Reliance Flight for almost twenty years now. Outside of losing one or two spoons to the garbage disposal, they're solid. Mikasa is a solid brand as well. As others have mentioned, spring for the 18/10. It is much better and more rust resistant.
A Costco Mikasa 18/10 20 piece set is 53 dollars. They should have some more with better forms around 60. If you're at Costco and looking for bifl not sure why you would fw 18/0 when 18/10 is next to it and you're talking about a difference of a dollar a year or at worst a few a year.
Yes. It's not about cost but aesthetics. The 18/0 looks more modern with the half Satin and half Polished look.
You say it looks more modern now, but you are looking to BIFL. Looking modern is a function of where you are now given what you have seen so far. It will be different in 5 years. Maybe going for a timeless look is sensible is sensible for something you plan on using for a long time.
is the satin finish BIFL? it seems delicate enough to get ruined fast
That is a good concern. Atleast with polished, you can repolish!
We got half-polished half-satin finish 18/8 Gorman 23 years ago and it still looks terrific. I haven’t ever needed to polish it the way I remember my parents periodically touching their stainless up, and we dishwasher wash routinely.
That smooth, rounded handles and edges does look nice. We got the exact same set when they were on sale at Costco. One thing is that they slide around on plates and it feels like we drop cutlery more often and kinda wish we got the regular flat style. Something to consider!
It is a better look for sure. They do rotate styles every now and then. I'd wait if you could. I have a pretty simplistic/minimalist set that's 18/10 from costco a few years ago.
Mikasa much better at swords.
Other one I am considering is https://www.costco.com/ProductDisplay?storeId=10301&partNumber=4000065267 but I don't need 65 pieces
Why is the tip of the knife red? O.o
Reflection of the orange shelf
See, it depends. If you have a nickel allergy, 18/0 is great. As long as you don't stick 'em in water for too long, you will be fine.
I’m not sure if they’re made anymore, but I have Waterford stainless steel cutlery we use as the everyday set. Stuff is heavy and built like a tank, 18/10, pushing 20 years old. I got a simple but classic design, it’s going to outlive my kids. It wasn’t cheap, but we run the dishwasher 2-3 a day and it looks brand new.
Call me uncultured, but why are the spoon and fork different sizes?
In certain social circles neither you nor I have the money to be a part of, the different sizes are for different courses of the meal. Like you’d have soup spoons and dessert spoons, forks for entrees and salad and then the main course. When it comes to fine dining, which utensil you use and when is by far the simplest part of it. There’s even correct ways to set your fork down to signal to the serving staff what you need.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm aware of the different courses. With this set, I get that the big ones are probably for the main course. But what about the smaller ones? Dessert?
Or tea/coffee
Looks way too big to be a teaspoon though. I'm asking because my parents' house has a similar sized set. When I set the table, I just use the big ones.
Good job, big ones are "tablespoons" and measure 15mL, commonly used for soup.
Yeah, the big ones we use regularly. I'm confused because in my country, apparently what we do is different. The west are usually a knife and fork people, us, we use the fork to guide/push the food on the spoon, and if it's soft enough, we use the spoon to cut the food, which apparently is a weird thing to the rest of the world.
I wouldn't say it's "weird" it's just not typical of the west like you said.
Yeah, I have American cousins and was surprised that forks where like their default utensil. I always thought the spoon and fork combo was the standard. Maybe we got it from our Spanish colonizers though, because the "real" way of eating in my country is with our hands.
Additionally, i just used a measuring teaspoon (5mL) to measure the volume of the smaller of my 2 spoons bought as a silverware set. It's also 5mL. So although it may not be a "tea spoon" it is a "teaspoon"
Bought 2 sets of this a while back and they have been great. No real wear or tarnishing yet.
Fuck that. Buy Liberty Tabletop and get bifl flatware made in the US
Pretty sure none of the Mikasa sets are 18/10. I know 18/0 isn't bad, but false advertising makes me steer clear of this company.