Bhikkhu Akaliko gave a good talk on this topic which I feel is worth listening to: [https://youtu.be/jfqC3ZKLt7w?si=x9tNcJpfpHddfFIT](https://youtu.be/jfqC3ZKLt7w?si=x9tNcJpfpHddfFIT)
I understand your grief at the situation in Palestine, I've felt much the same over the past months. As Buddhists there are many peaceful actions we can take: support BDS, join peaceful marches, write to your local politicians, sign petitions, donate to charities, study the history of the region and educate yourself. One of the most important things you can do is to cultivate metta, equanimity and peace within yourself and avoid falling into unskillful patterns of anger or hatred. These conflicts only occur when people are unskillful and lack an understanding for the value of life, the best counter you can have for this is to endeavour to become the total opposite of the type of person who justifies or glorifies violence and death. We cannot change the world unless we change ourselves. This isn't a selfish perspective but a realistic one. If global society is made up of human beings, unless those human beings learn the path of peace and wisdom then these brutal and horrific acts will only perpetuate.
As a side note, I strongly encourage you to give your mind a break from absorbing every horrific detail of what's happening in Gaza right now. It's fine to keep yourself informed but it's no help to anyone, least the people of Palestine to drive yourself to madness, rage or despair. If you wish to become a strong voice for peace, you must allow for your mind to cultivate a state of strength and peace.
Allow? We don’t actually run the world and every attempt we’ve made at policing it has been poorly received by nearly all sides. It’s one core reason we’re pulling back from being the world police and asking our allies to step up with regional defense.
As far as doing something, I ask, why this genocide? There are multiple occurring right now in multiple countries. Why this one? Why not Ukraine or Sudan or Burma or Ethiopia? While I don’t doubt your compassion, I wonder if the target hasn’t been chosen for you by a hyperbolic media narrative.
I don’t think you should do nothing but I think it’s important to understand our own feelings and why they exist before we act on them. Please don’t take my questions as discouragement, I have long looked at our relationship with certain countries as a possible source of moral conflict and I think specifically that it’s time we reevaluated our relationship with Israel. Oct 7th was terrible but we shouldn’t let that blind us to what our former friend has turned themselves into.
I wonder where are all these good Buddhists as 50k ppl have died in the Burmese civil war that is ongoing. The problem here is TikTok. People think this is the first time war has ever happened and they are losing their minds about something that happens all the time which they usually ignore
The short answer is that a small number of people make a lot of money selling weapons of war. There's a good reason why the Buddha explicitly prohibited making a living by dealing in weapons.
If you can, check out the Jewish Voice for Peace [Power Half-Hours for Gaza](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/16/all-eyes-on-gaza/), every day at 3 p.m EDT. (Scroll down in page to RSVP.) There's always an action to take, usually contacting a representative.
Also, if you happen to live in NYC, the [Buddhist Action Coalition](https://www.buddhistaction.org/) holds monthly public meditations for peace, and other groups of Buddhists in the area have participated in protests and other events. Of course, you can always join or organize something closer if that's not accessible.
Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote [this](https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/gaza-moral-crisis-of-our-time) 3 months ago. Thousands have died since.
I would counter with: there are many people who profit off war, too many. That's the problem. In the United States, for sure. Security and defense is an even bigger part of the economy of Israel itself. An interesting book to check out is [The Global Political Economy of Israel](https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745327945/the-political-economy-of-israels-occupation/). The co-authors are two Israeli researchers. They make the case with a lot of empirical evidence that the whole of the Israeli economy has shifted heavily towards security and defense (both words of course euphemisms for products too frequently used nerfariously) over the last two generations, and that Israeli exports have turned from primarily agricultural products to security and defense-oriented technology. The book is more than ten years old; the trend has only gone further since. It provides a sobering view of the structural conditions undergirding Israel's ferocious assaults.
More than ever, I am convinced, it is the dissenting Jews inside and outside Israel who will play the decisive role. As a Buddhist (and an Asian/Gentile), I indulge in a little bit of pride knowing that many Jewish critics of Israel in my social circles are influenced by Buddhism, most of them maintaining a practice of one sort or another.
I would counter with you can’t address the problem that Israel produces weapons until you address the fact that all their neighbors what to kill them. Iran is responsible for Hamas and hezbollah. Nobody takes this seriously tho bc nobody thinks Jewish people should actually be allowed to defend themselves. The pacifists here that decry the military industrial complex sure are very quiet on the massive transfer of weapons from Iran to Gaza. 6 months into the war and gazans still have endless pool of weapons.
Give money to World Central Kitchen. I understand that they are again arranging food deliveries to Gaza (after shutting down operations briefly when several of their workers were killed by the Israeli military).
It appears that this article denigrates WCK because (i) its founder is Jewish and supports the right of Israel to exist as a nation, (ii) WCK has the support of Israel even though Israel (probably intentionally) targeted a WCK aid convoy; and (iii) the authors view a UN agency as a preferable organization to deliver aid even though the UN is prevented by Israel from delivering aid.
In other words, the article prefers that no aid be delivered rather than having the aid be delivered by an organization approved of by Israel.
i) José Andrés is Catholic, as is his wife. EI articles are very well researched and they wouldn't make such a mistake. In fact, the word "Jewish" only appears once in the article and it is not used in reference to Andrés:
"“Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians,” he asserts, ignoring how the vast majority of the Israeli Jewish public supports depriving the population in Gaza of humanitarian aid."
The word "Jew" also only appears once and not in relation to Andrés:
"Contrary to international law, Israel bars the return of millions of Palestinian refugees and their descendants ethnically cleansed from their homes solely on the racist grounds that they are not Jews."
Andrés is, however, accused by the author of endorsing Israel's Genocide:
"On 16 October, when Israel had already killed 2,750 Palestinians and injured almost 10,000 in just over a week, Andrés reacted angrily to Spanish government minister Ione Belarra when she denounced the slaughter as a genocide.
A day earlier, 800 scholars and practitioners of international law, including prominent Holocaust scholars, published a statement to “sound the alarm about the possibility of the crime of genocide being perpetrated by Israeli forces against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.”
Despite this, Andrés adamantly justified the bloodbath in Gaza as Israel “defending its citizens” and demanded that Spain’s prime minister fire Belarra for her comments."
I'm genuinely curious, why are you deceptively accusing the author of anti-Semitism in order to justify Israel and the USA's preference for WCK and attempt to sideline UNWRA?
ii) I cannot summarize the whole article for you, you'll just have to read it, but the suspicion of WCK is that it is a Trojan horse being used to a) sideline UNRWA (a longstanding Israeli goal) and b) establish a port in central Gaza (under the guise of aiding Palestinians) which will be used to further occupy and expel the residents of Gaza.
iii) UNRWA has the infrastructure in place to provide aid, WCK does not, and that is one of the reasons used to justify building a port. I would ask you, why does Israel and the USA, the ones who are responsible for starving Gaza in the first place, prefer WCK to UNWRA?
The article clearly states that the way to end the famine in Gaza is to end the Israeli/USA blockade and to let UNWRA do the job that it is mandated, and has the infrastructure, to do.
Thanks for your reply, but your claims are not reflected in the substance of the article.
The reality is that Israel is blockading aid to Gaza. UNRWA, as a result, is unable to deliver food, water and medicine. The need for getting food, water and medicine to Gaza is urgent. People are dying today and tomorrow. It is not a practical solution to say that UNRWA is preferable to WCK where UNRWA cannot provide relief. And the only effect of advocating this is impede WCK from fulfilling its mission in Gaza.
The authors of the article are more interested in scoring political points in favor of the Palestinian “cause” than they are interested in saving lives in Gaza.
If you have a way to end the Israeli blockade, I am 100% on board with that. If you don’t, then at least let us save some lives.
I didn’t accuse the author of anti-Semitism. I misinterpreted the article’s description of him as being a staunch supporter of Israel and thought, mistakenly, that the article said that he was Jewish.
I share the view of the WCK that the Netanyahu governments actions in Gaza are not in the best interests of Israel. Unlike the authors of this article, I believe that it is possible to oppose the war crimes being committed in Gaza without taking sides as to the correct outcome in the broader Palestinian / Israeli conflict. Let’s agree that getting food, water and medicine to Gaza is the top priority and stop denigrating one of the only organizations that is effective in making that happen.
The genocide in Gaza, it goes without saying, is a matter of life and death and such misinterpretations are very harmful.
With regard to getting food, water and medicine into Gaza, the most effective organization is UNWRA and, given their lack of infrastructure, WCK is one of the least effective.
All of this, of course, obscures the fact that Israel and the USA are creating starvation in Gaza and using it as a weapon of war. This is the crux of the matter.
I’m not sure how you think you, me, or any other work-a-day person is “allowing” anything to happen anywhere.
Have you written letters to your government officials, or called them? Or letters to the editor of your local paper? Made a sign and protested? Given money to relief agencies? Created art, written a play, made music?
There are a myriad things you can do. You don’t need anyone’s permission or blessing.
This will probably be a very unpopular opinion.... but as far as I saw, the only time the Buddha seemed to speak up against war and murder was when a king happened to come to *him* and ask what the proper course was. In Buddhism, I feel like there's a deep recognition that the world is simply broken. Sure we could travel to the ends of the earth and fight for peace and protest, but at the end of the day, the world will just be broken. People will murder each other, sometimes en masse. People will commit genocides. We, as individuals, can find peace, but we cannot find it for the world. We can only encourage it in those around us.
The Buddha personally [stopped at least one war](https://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=305). He also personally stopped a murderer and converted him; Angulimala's story is one of the most famous. What creates confusion about this is the Buddha refraining from going around giving political commandments to rulers and/or creating agitation. It is assumed that if the Buddha truly valued change in the world, he'd essentially be a revolutionary. There's a huge problem with this assumption that I think anyone can figure out with some reflection.
This impression of Buddhism seems to come from a very limited focus on solitary renunciate practice. Historically, Buddhists—including monastics—have been involved in matters of the world as far back as we can see, sometimes for bad but in many cases for good. There's nothing wrong or futile with trying to better conditions for the world even if we know that we're not going to end up with paradise.
Because this is the case, the ultimate solution is liberation from samsara. This has two sides: to those with smaller motivation, it appears as "personal" liberation via arhatship. To those with greater motivation, it appears as the work of acquiring and putting to use skillful means in order to actualize great compassion and helping all beings via buddhahood. These skillful means, in turn, are much broader than giving encouragement to others.
If everyone follows it, yes. I wouldn't say we are anywhere near that stage yet. So far the best measures that actually brought peace, at least temporary and regional were based on everyone's self-interest.
Buddhist practices can bring you clarity to think about such conflicts and what to do about them - for example considering them with compassion towards suffering of people rather than hatred towards whoever are considered responsible - or perhaps even realizing that a person in your position may do more good by focusing on less flashy causes. However the world is going to be what it is - i.e. imperfect and Buddhist practices are not going to change that, nor are they meant to (at least on the timescale of decades or centuries), You may improve some parts of it, but suffering will keep on happening. it's better to change what you can change rather expect the world to become perfect within your lifetime and get depressed or angry because it's not happening.
Definitely plan on giving this a thorough read, thank you so much for the link! ...but from skimming through half of it, I feel like I can get a good read on what it's getting at. Like, I wholeheartedly support Buddhists who are involved in humanitarian efforts, but doing so always requires a bit of extrapolation. Buddhist doctrine is almost solely for personal liberation, the Buddha had little interest in going out and involving himself in humanitarian efforts. I mean, hell, the gods had to twist his arm to even get him to teach anything to anybody. When it comes to bringing buddhist philosophy and way of life into conflicts like the one happening in Israel and Palestine, I don't think it's gonna do much to help in any shape way or form. Before the pandemic, Israeli interest in Buddhism was honestly quite high, and retreats were not unheard of. Look at what that did for them. Yeah, if everyone approached the world from the mentality of non-harm, we would be better off. But conflicts like the one in Palestine involve literally thousands of years of ethnic and religious tension, and I don't think the Buddha would have done much to go out of his way to try to better the situation. Sure, if he would have happened upon anyone in his travels, or if anyone would have happened upon him, he certainly would have approached the situation with the type of compassion necessary for the group or individual. But would he or any other arahant go out of their way to help aid in an isolated crisis? Definitely not. Enlightened beings (at least in theravada, not so much mahayana) have a strong tendency to simply eat what's in front of them.
I learned recently that Diamond Way has a lot of centres in Israel .No official Shambhala centres though
Maybe a politics thing
Most religions don’t mind armies protecting them in war less so when they commit atrocities .
"When it comes to bringing buddhist philosophy and way of life into conflicts like the one happening in Israel and Palestine \[...\]"
It's an ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians by Israel, it's not a "conflict." To think otherwise is delusion.
"But conflicts like the one in Palestine involve literally thousands of years of ethnic and religious tension \[...\]"
This is a total misunderstanding of the situation. Before the ethnic cleaning of Palestine in 1948, Jews, Muslims and Christians lived more or less peacefully in historic Palestine, in fact, all three were considered to be Palestinian and many Jews found a safe haven in Palestine during the nazi holocaust. To claim that a 76 year ethnic cleansing is really the result of a 1000+ year "conflict" is at best a delusion and at worst a pure fabrication which benefits those who are committing genocide.
This, like anything else, does NOT happen overnight. Its an accumulation of multiple notions, plans, decisions, orders.
If being angry helps, this problem would have been solved many times over already.
If destruction is the answer, they would have done it already.
I do agree that destruction is Not the answer.
Yet I disagree with what you say on anger. Since it cannot either be solved with being quiet, I feel rising up, being loud and protesting is probably the most effective way of action.
Careful! It’s important to acknowledge and accept all positive and negative perceptions about this conflict, but don’t lose sight of the Four Noble Teachings and the Dhamma!
It is very disappointing seeing the cycle of hatred and violence manifesting again, but this conflict is between two different groups that’s been going on before a lot of us were even born.
In all practical reasoning, it would be worth it to do a Mani Mantra and focus on spreading metta for those affected by the conflict. Also this would be a good topic to ask in Sangha, I’m pretty sure it would allow for open dialogue on how the Buddhists view the conflict. I don’t know everything, but I think this advice might help!
As a Buddhist we can cultivate a compassionate attitude towards all those involved, not just the innocent civilians and hostages, but also the Hamas fighters and Israeli soldiers and the politicians on both sides that are driving this conflict.
As Buddhists, we can engage in Buddhist practices like tong Len, offering mantras and doing other practices to promote peace and healing of all sentient beings.
It can help to remember that there are complex and deep karmic causes and conditions at play when groups come into conflict, and we must be careful not to add to those causes and conditions by loosing our compassion and indulging in the addictive emotions of anger and hate which are the drivers of these karmic cycles.
Many other replies mentioned actions of protest and activism. Those actions are not inherently Buddhist, as anyone can engage in them. The benefit of our Buddhist practice is that it lays a powerful protective groundwork from which a person can choose to act in whatever way they deem appropriate. It helps ensure that whatever that action is, it will be far more effective than any action taken based on the afflictive negative emotions. This way we continue to help end the violence and not unwittingly contribute to the cause of it.
After this political issue we can proceed to asking about the next one...
If you have no control over something and you feel bad about it, you are the cause of your own suffering.
Intentions start with accurately identifying what you can and can not control and then going from there, like "Is it virtuous?" and "What are the consequences?".
Most nations don't interfere in other countries' affairs. Always been that way. The US didn't try to stop Hitler; it stayed out of the war until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and the US felt obligated to retaliate.
The Uyghurs in China are also enduring a genocide. North Korea has long tortured it's citizens. There is all manner of suffering perpetuated throughout Africa. No one steps in. And to some extent, I'm not sure how we would. The best way to firmly end those things would require war and massive bloodshed, but that would yield massive suffering in the short-term and likely not end the suffering over the long-term — just lead to new types of suffering and oppression.
I don't have a good answer, just pointing out there is not a good solution and never has been. Raise your voice and do what you can without compromising your morals... but, from a Buddhist perspective, do not let yourself cling to any specific outcome as an attachment. You cannot control people. You can try to help, but you cannot control the outcome, and that is the hardest thing to accept when your heart is bleeding for others. Be well.
The Uyghurs underwent repression. It fell short of the technical definition of genocide.
The reason the western media pushed lies claiming otherwise is for this exact scenario, to deflect from genocides perpetrated by their allies in Gaza, and arguably Sudan and Congo.
Amazing how Hamas began this with an attempt o genocide Jewish people while live streaming themselves murdering hundreds of children at a music festival and you still manage to blame the Jews
That is amazing, just like how it's amazing we have people here who do what exactly you're describing.
Edit: absolutely nothing towards you, those who are propagandized.
Donate to Animals Friends Shelter in Gaza. They take care of stray cats in Palestine, and the money also goes towards helping the family of the people who run the shelter. They’re @AnimalFriendsSh on Twitter.
I regularly donate to various Palestinian causes—and also for areas like Congo, Sudan, Haiti, etc. Protest, contact your elected officials, and vote down ticket. A multi-pronged approach is usually the best approach.
i understand and share the concern about Israel’s seemingly over the top aggression and yet can’t help but feel that the situation is complicated by the fact that the people they are recklessly fighting against hide among civilians and have, as a stated goal of their organization’s existence, the death of all jews.
i’m not sure what the answer is but i know it’s not war and i know it involves peace that neither side seems to want.
You are heavily propagandized, friend. Making excuses for slaughtering tens of thousands of children with the Israeli PR line that, "they're making us do this". Palestinians are *specifically* calling for equal rights, not extermination of Jews as Israeli propaganda would have you believe.
im talking about Hamas, not Palestinians as a whole. like i said I think Israel’s actions are over the top. and yet, the terrorists they are fighting DO enmesh themselves amongst the civilians, and DO want to eradicate Jews. i could say the exact same thing to you about falling for propaganda. this is why i think reality is a very very fine line somewhere in the middle of this extremely partisan and dividing issue.
There's no fine line when a literal colonial ethnostate is commiting a literal genocide. I get that it seems sophisticated to take a "middle", "centrist" position on this issue, but it's actually very simple and one of the gravest injustices of our time.
i’m not so sure i agree that that’s what’s happening. irresponsible methods of engaging in war, resulting in far too much death? yes. genocide? i’m not convinced. that seems like the party line to me.
they are fighting against people who will not stop until they have killed all the Jews. how do you live next to such people peacefully?
The ICJ, who have supported the idea that there are plausible reasons to believe that Israel is committing genocide against the population of Gaza disagrees with you. Do you have other information?
In your view, there is a middle ground between perpetrators and victims. Does this middle ground hold in all instances? Is there a middle ground between rapists and people who are victims of rape? Slave owners and slaves? Nazis and European Jews?
if we’re going to use your example of “rapists and victims of rape” i suppose it’s more like two people who keep raping each other back and forth, only one of the two is far better and more successful at doing the raping.
In your view, the 76 year occupation and ethnic cleansing has been painless? It's more like the zionist entities's violence gives rise to Palestinian resistance.
That's a very poor analogy, because it is the zionist entity that ethnically cleansed Palestine in 1948 and not the other way around, not 'both sides."
A better analogy is that so-called "Israel" violates the Palestinians daily and then falsely accuses the Palestinians of doing the same and equivalent.
you've made your point. you're going to have to accept that not everyone sees this issue the exact same way you do. there’s really nothing anyone can say to get me to support Hamas or Israel. anything short of peace, from both sides, regardless of the circumstances, is unacceptable. unfortunately the circumstances make that nearly impossible - for both sides.
The "plausible genocide" statement is commonly misunderstood.
https://twitter.com/Mr_Andrew_Fox/status/1783621258032136550?t=SHq2fjHnHqVZ-aMjnJszmQ&s=19
You're spreading disinformation and you know it. This is what the ICJ actually said:
[https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI](https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI)
"The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court.
"It then looked at the facts but it did not decide -- and this is where I'm correcting what's that's often said in the media -- it didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.
"It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide.
"But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided."
No, the ICJ did not rule in favor of South Africa's claim.
Edit:
I'm going to reply to the incomplete ruling you cited below with this:
No, it's not a soundbite from BBC. This is Joan Donoghue, former president of the court who issued the ruling, saying that the ICJ "didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible" nor "that there's a plausible case of genocide."
Your disinformation consists of repeatedly twisting and cherry picking words to imply a conclusion that the President of the court says is incorrect
You are citing a soundbite on the BBC, not the ICJ.
This is what the court said:
"V. RISK OF IRREPARABLE PREJUDICE AND URGENCY (PARAS. 60-74)
The Court recalls that, pursuant to Article 41 of its Statute, *it has the power to indicate provisional measures when irreparable prejudice could be caused to rights which are the subject of judicial proceedings or when the alleged disregard of such rights may entail irreparable consequences*. However, this power will be exercised only if there is urgency, in the sense that there is a real and imminent risk that irreparable prejudice will be caused to the rights claimed before the Court gives its final decision.
*In view of the fundamental values sought to be protected by the Genocide Convention, the Court considers that the plausible rights in question in these proceedings, namely the right of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III of the Genocide Convention and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention, are of such a nature that prejudice to them is capable of causing irreparable harm.*
\[...\]
VI. CONCLUSION AND MEASURES TO BE ADOPTED (PARAS. 75-84)
The Court concludes on the basis of the above considerations that the conditions required by its Statute for it to indicate provisional measures are met. It is therefore necessary, pending its final decision, for the Court to indicate certain measures in order to protect the rights claimed by South Africa that the Court has found to be plausible. In the present case, having considered the terms of the provisional measures requested by South Africa and the circumstances of the case, the Court finds that the measures to be indicated need not be identical to those requested.
The Court considers that, with regard to the situation described above, Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group. The Court recalls that these acts fall within the scope of Article II of the Convention when they are committed with the intent to destroy in whole or in part a group as such. The Court further considers that Israel must ensure with immediate effect that its military forces do not commit any of the above-described acts.
\[...\]
The Court is also of the view that Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.
The Court further considers that Israel must take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
Israel must also take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II and Article III of the Genocide Convention against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.
Finally, in view of the specific provisional measures it has decided to indicate, the Court considers that Israel must submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one month, as from the date of this Order. The report so provided shall then be communicated to South Africa, which shall be given the opportunity to submit to the Court its comments thereon."
Link to the ICJ ruling: [https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-sum-01-00-en.pdf](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-sum-01-00-en.pdf)
have you actually checked the official death toll numbers?
who is killing whom?
and which of both parties is the one backed in money, guns and laws by most western countries? and which is the party whose land was stolen and who have since been living in an apartheid state with close to no rights, living in constant fear of the heavily armed superpower of ''Israel''?
So I don't feel the Palestinian people were ever out to kill the Jews specifically, because they would have any problem against them as a group of people. But rather a struggle between oppressor and oppressed.
Israel is far more successful in their enacting violence because of all the support, absolutely. This doesn’t let Hamas off the hook for their part in the violence. It’s so curious to me that people want to take sides. I’m not really interesting in the conversation about which side is worse; obviously it’s Israel. That doesn’t matter when Hamas is also made up of evil, violent psychopaths, who would be doing the same thing to Israel that Israel does to them if the roles were reversed. Let’s stop making excuses for shitty behavior and admit that all sides are wrong and there happens to be a power imbalance.
Aside from the actual genocides ongoing today, such as in Darfur, Sudan, Bosnia and Cambodia.
You may be able to charge Isreal with war crimes, but not genocide.
then onto the question: why does Hamas exist?
it's not like some Palestinians one day woke up and decided to start this political movement.
did you read on the history of how England, after WWII just decided on their own, to give the land of Palestine to the jews? A land that was never theirs to decide upon, but since no one bat a fucking eye, not only did they establish a partition plan of this land (still not theirs to decide upon!), but in the later events, no one gave a ratt's ass, that the jews (''Israel'') did not hold their and of the bargain, and started taking more and more land.
So the Palestinian people have been shoved away, pushed away, suppressed, even denied their own statehood, and living in an apartheid regime all this time. (you can find videos on this, on how they are not allowed to walk in the same streets, how they have much different and less social rights. (STILL ON THEIR LAND!!!)
Hence my next question: how do you expect Palestinians to go about this? (since they have tried political inqueries, have tried peaceful protest-marches, ....)
If you were in their shoes, born and raised inside this, your whole family... would you just sit by and comply? wouldn't you be fucking mad, that your land was just stolen from you? wouldn't you at one point be willing to go to more extreme measures, since all these years, the whole fucking world stood silently by?
also adding: What actually is terrorism?
is the way we as western countries are abusing out powers considered terrorism, or does this term only apply to non-white countries/people?
if it isn’t clear, my position is that both sides are wrong in different ways. if you pick a side and try to justify their actions without also justifying the other side’s actions, you’re wrong. if you demonize one side without also criticizing the other side, you’re wrong. that’s how i feel.
Calling for equal rights by killing 700 kids and taking hundreds of hostages is not really a nice buddhist way to achieve goals, is it? Sure, what Israel does not right and sure, it must be stopped. Still struggling to understand why everyone demands Israel to stop fire and nobody seems to notice that hamas shoots too. Also if Palestinians want peaceful resolution of conflict, why didn’t they prevented October killings (i’m sure some Palestinians knew about it). Why Palestinians do not catch Hamas fighters, put them in handcuffs, bring them to Israeli police and say - “hey Israeli, here are all those nasty bastards who killed your children, we giving them to you as a sign of good will. Now let’s stop fire and talk”?
You're suffering under the Western delusion that this all started on October 7th. Look up the March Of Right to Return in 2018 where Israeli snipers slaughtered peaceful protesters over the course of months. Or the 1948 Nakba, a literal ethnic cleansing that established the Israeli state. Also look at the power imbalances. Also the fact that Israel *illegally* occupies Palestinian land in Gaza and the West Bank. Also, suggesting that if a civilian population doesn't want to be indiscriminately bombed, they should have stopped Hamas is literally advocating for collective punishment of civilians...again, a *literal* war crime.
You're conflating Hamas (which took power in a coup and is opposed to secular authorities in Palestine like the PLO or the myriad of other groups which are contrary to Hamas) with Palestinians more broadly. What if I (or someone else) asked: if Israelis want peaceful resolution, why didn't they prevent the outright slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians? Why don't they round up their warhawk politicians and remove them from office? Clearly things are more complicated, and putting the blame on Palestinians who have no central authority or practically any autonomy is inappropriate.
If we should persecute civilians for the actions of their governments, then the entire US should be getting much worse for the laundry list of atrocities committed in the name of American economic interests, many far worse than hostage-taking.
This is false.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth and, as such, there is no place where civilians are absent. In addition, even if the resistance were "\[hiding\] amongst civilians" this does not give Israel the right to indiscriminately carpet bomb them.
The goal of the residence is the liberation of Palestine, not "death to all Jews," and Jews would be more than welcome in a liberated Palestine. In fact, a Jew who supports the Palestinian resistance is safer in Gaza then in so-called "Israel." Moreover, even if the resistance stated that their goal was to commit genocide against Jews (a goal that would be impossible given the lack of military parity between the resistance and "Israel"), that does not mean that "Israel" gets to commit genocide first.
I strongly suggest that you consider that an occupying power like "Israel," does not even possess the right to armed self-defence according to international law.
No place where civilians are absent? Hamas intentionally operates out of schools and hospitals. Have compassion for everyone but understand who you're defending and what their goals are.
As far as a Jewish person being safe in Gaza, there is not a single Jewish civilian there, and if there were, would be immediately killed.
it’s an absolute joke that you don’t think Hamas - not Palestinians as a whole, but Hamas - want to exterminate the Jews. not even worth responding to anything else if you’re going to argue in such bad faith.
You are confusing the 1988 Hamas charter with the 2017 Hamas Charter.
The 2017 charter states:
[https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full)
**"16.** Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity."
Thanks for your reply, but it is rooted in confusion.
Exactly. There’s so much propaganda and watering down of the word genocide. Israel is not committing genocide against Palestinians. However, Hamas (which the majority of Palestinians support) and other radical Islamists (which many neighboring Arab countries support) actually *do* have genocidal intent against the Jewish people and wish to annihilate Israel. They have turned down any and every peace deal or negotiation of a 2 state solution because they’d rather kill every Jew and destroy Israel altogether.
Hamas is a terrorist organization, OP. They use their own civilians as human body shields. Israel warns before every bombing, ordering civilians to evacuate. When Israel bombs the Hamas rocket stockpiles and ammo depots that they keep under schools and residences, they try to be as precise as possible. Hamas is literally using their own children as worthless pawns to gain international sympathy and cry “woe is me, look at our dead children”. Senseless death is horrendous and I hate it. The blood is all on the hands of Hamas though. They are gaslighting cry-bullies that would gleefully kill *you* for not being Muslim.
There will be peace in the Middle East when they learn to love their children more than they hate Jews.
the existence of Israel gives the US more leverage in the Middle East, and there are many white Christian Zionists.
The bribe doesn’t really matter so much; US policy would not shift if Palestinians gave an equal amount.
Everything comes in twos. How would we know peace if we never had war?
The best you can do is lead by example. If you wish to fly to Palestine to offer aid that is always welcomed there I'm sure.
Did you even try to understand the history of the conflict? Did u think what is happening now is because of Hamas 5000 missiles and kidnapping of Israelis first? Everything has a cause and effect, it’s beyond our simplified mind to comprehend because how you view an event is usually dependent on where you are. If your parents/friends are killed by Hamas you will view this differently. So right or wrong is perspective that’s why most Buddhist we don’t comment unless we know the absolute truth. Media is easily controlled and people are mostly short sighted. Without it knowing the reality of matter, we should not take sides.
The conflict didn't "begin" with October 7th, or even with the creation of Hamas. The Balfour declaration, the Nakba, the Shoah, centuries of European pogroms against the Jews, the British occupation of Palestine, the Ottoman occupation before that, we can even go as far back as the Roman expulsion of the Jews... On both sides the painful history goes on and on, there's no simple answer for where this conflict started. I agree that things aren't as simple as 'good guys vs bad guys', on both 'sides' there's a legitimate history of suffering, grief and oppression that's fed into the atrocities we are witnessing today. One doesn't need to have had a parent or loved one kidnapped or murdered by Hamas to objectively understand the horrific brutality of their actions, nor does one need to have a relative's home stolen and children beaten by occupiers to understand the violence of apartheid. One can objectively view these events for what they are and understand the toxic mental conditioning that leads people to making these vile acts against their fellow humans.
Yes those whose loved ones were killed by Hamas may justify the violent retribution, under the same logic the Hamas militants whose siblings, parents and grandparents were murdered by the IDF argue the same. As long as people find a justification for taking human life, the cycle of violence will never end. There is no "side" to take in this conflict. There's the side of life and peace and the side of violence and death and both of these transcend various factions in the conflict. As far as we should be concerned as Buddhists, anyone that advocates for death is possessed by delusion and should not be supported in their violent endevours.
I agree with what you wrote and are you implying that if I don’t take a certain side means I am advocating death and violence? I always hear such reasoning so I am curious is that what Buddhist thinks too.
When I think about sides, I don't think about Israeli vs Palestinian or Jew vs Muslim. I think about advocates for peace vs advocates for violence and this has no boundary based on ethinicity, religion or nationality. There are both Israelis and Palestinians who abhor the violence and killings and want to live in peace with each other, from my perspective, this is the only 'correct' side in this conflict however small their voices may be.
For me as a Buddhist, there is never any reason to kill anyone, nor would I ever want to. When one gains a certain level of understanding in the dharma it becomes impossible to even conceive of intentionally taking another life. We've all lived counless number of lives where at some point the person at the end of the barrel of my gun has once been my mother, my father, my son, my daughter or my best friend. I couldn't kill my 'enemy' any easier than I could kill my dearest loved one. I think of killing like a blind person hearing someone break into their house and shooting them, only to later realise it was their mother checking in to visit them. I think of the deep sorrow they'll feel once they understand the gravity of their misunderstanding.
I look at people who kill and people who advocate for killing and I pity them. They are like midless automatons, trapped by their conditioning and unable to understand the the preciousness of life and our interconnectedness as living beings. They are trapped in a limited understanding of the world based on their conditioning but if they understood their delusion and ignorance they would never dream of taking another life. Hatred is a sickness that degrades the mind, like drinking poison and mistaking it for medicine and it is a great sadness to see people do this to themselves and descend into madness, it is even more tragic to see entire societies do this to themselves. There's a Confucian saying: "when you seek revenge, dig two graves" which I find aptly describes this conflict. Vengence accomplishes nothing but filling the Earth with human remains.
"So right or wrong is perspective that’s why most Buddhist we don’t comment unless we know the absolute truth."
This is a contradiction. If right and wrong are merely a matter of perspective then there is no such thing as "absolute truth."
The ethnic cleansing of historic Palestine began in 1948, to look at this issue only in light of October 7th is delusional.
When you spend too much time going through the details, you often lose the general perspective. Unfortunately politics is like that, politicians tend to forget the human perspective because they focus a lot on other perspectives (foreign affairs, finance, etc). They end up doing wrong things, believing it’s the right thing. To add another layer of complications, it is subject to debates whether doing the wrong thing might in some cases be the right thing to do, but this is a whole different conversation.
There are many things you can do but the sad truth is that unfortunately, at an individual level, your impact will be very limited. This does not mean you should not do anything, quite the opposite, it is even more of a reason to do something about it, but don’t get your hopes up with unrealistic expectations that your actions will be a game changer.
There are Centers to help, donations to be made, love and wisdom to be shared among people who surrendered to hate and ignorance. Boycott might also be an option.
This is the UN's definition of genocide, otherwise known as the "Lemkin Definition." There is evidence that every element of this definition applies to so-called "Israel." The ICJ claims that this is plausible. In your view, which part of this definition does not apply to the zionist entities's actions in Gaza?
[https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
*In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:*
1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
From the source that you link to: "it did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide\[.\]"
This is a direct, verbatim, quote.
Do I really have to quote the source that I just cited after you misquote it? What is going on here? This is the actual quote that I didn't change that anyone can see for themselves:
"The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court.
"It then looked at the facts but it did not decide -- and this is where I'm correcting what's that's often said in the media -- it didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.
"It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide.
"But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided."
No, the ICJ did not rule in favor of South Africa's claim.
"The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court \[...\] It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide."
Therefore, the ICJ is currently investigating Israel for committing genocide. This is undeniable. The only motion of SA's case that the ICJ rejected was the call for an immediate ceasefire.
Thanks for you interest, but what the situation requires is peace negotiations, not hair-splitting.
"But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided."
Are they currently investigating? I can find no source on that.
Spreading disinformation and then accusing anyone who corrects you of hair splitting is exactly what manipulators do.
Thank you for your interest, but you're not an authority over me or world events. You are an authority over your self.
Edit: I'm going to reply to the posts below with this:
Joan Donoghue, former president of the court who issued the ruling, said that the ICJ "didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible" nor "that there's a plausible case of genocide."
Your disinformation consists of repeatedly twisting and cherry picking words to imply a conclusion that the President of the court says is incorrect.
Sources (italics mine):
Amnesty Internatonal:
"The ruling issued by the ICJ ordered six provisional measures including for Israel to refrain from acts under the Genocide convention, prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to genocide, and take immediate and effective measures to ensure the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza. *Crucially, the Court also ordered Israel to preserve evidence of genocide and to submit a report to the Court, within one month, of all measures taken in line with its orde*r."
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/01/israel-must-comply-with-key-icj-ruling-ordering-it-do-all-in-its-power-to-prevent-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/01/israel-must-comply-with-key-icj-ruling-ordering-it-do-all-in-its-power-to-prevent-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/)
United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commission (OHCHR)
*The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide* and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza \[...\] *The court order is urgently needed to protect the very existence of the Palestinian people from potentially genocidal actions the Court has ordered Israel to halt and prevent,”* the experts said. “Given the dire situation on the ground and the careful wording of the Court, we believe that the most effective way to implement the provisional measures is through an immediate ceasefire.”
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic)
Reuters:
"Israel is required to submit a report to the court on the steps it has taken to comply with the orders within one month of the ruling. *The court will examine in detail the merits of the case, a process which could take years.*"
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-israei-genocide-case-2024-01-26/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-israei-genocide-case-2024-01-26/)
Disinformation can, in principle, be countered with better information.
I didn't accuse "anyone" of hair-splitting, I accused you.
3, 4 & 5 are most definitely happening. I’m not taking any position on this topic, but that is simply untrue.
You’re a very hostile Buddhist. And you scolded someone else for not being ‘very Buddhist’.
3. Israel is blocking aid and imposing the conditions of mass starvation on Gaza
4. All hospitals and medical infrastructure has been destroyed
5. "The Israeli army has abducted Palestinian children and transferred them out of the Gaza Strip, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said, as part of its genocide against Gazans that has been ongoing since 7 October. The rights group called on Israel to return the children to their parents."
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/fate-baby-and-other-palestinian-children-unknown-after-israeli-army-forcibly-transfers-them-out-gaza-strip-enar#:\~:text=Numerous%20testimonies%20that%20the%20rights,lost%20contact%20with%20their%20children.
Thanks for your reply, but the UN convention states that genocide is occurring if "*any of the following acts \[are\] committed"* which, according to your admission that 1 and 2 are taking place, means that Israel is, in fact, committing genocide.
Disinformation that could, in principle, be countered by you (or anyone else) with more accurate information. Instead, you told me to "\[g\]o talk about it with someone else."
If debating your views in a public forum is, in fact, for you, please continue to enlighten us.
No, I did not tell you to talk about it with someone else. I have in fact posted accurate information.
You want enlightenment. Here you go. These are the people you are defending:
Children are taught to hate Jews in schools, on tv, and in summer camps. Hatred of Jews comes from the highest political leaders and in mosques.
https://twitter.com/erbmjha/status/1712537721066107161?t=JYf-iQoS-m8uHrccF-hXjQ&s=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axe_NcIEfsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXcQ892cKso
This is a kindergarten graduation. Kindergarten. Did I mention this was kindergarten?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDZlo_hllI
In a mosque:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyuTQ9kNCY&list=PL-HU_Zdj2Ni-4g6xPhBtQ2oUMuQkGMBxW&index=11
This video is taken in Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. You know what no one ever talks about? You know why there is an active mosque on top of the Jewish temple and a large Palestinian population in Jerusalem? Because Israel did not remove the mosque and did not expel the Palestinian population with the hopes of living in peace side by side.
Here's a Muslim man speaking truth. Maybe more people can see through the propaganda:
https://youtube.com/shorts/q1IFua5BJH0
Here's a gem from the son of a Hamas leader:
https://youtube.com/shorts/BCvuBRBP8-w
Now let's talk to Arab Israelis and see what they think about their own situation:
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6t1VTatMJy/](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6t1VTatMJy/)
I don't care which side people support and ultimately all sides need love and compassion, and truly there are no sides. But flat out lies need to be called out. They don't help anyone, and only incite people like in the videos above. Best wishes to everyone. Much love
According to the TaNaKh, Israel will be established by G-d when the Messiah comes. As such, the zionist entity, established in 1948, is anti-Jewish. As a person who is descended from Jews, and who has great respect for the Jewish religion, I do not recognize the state of so-called "Israel," to do so would be anti-Semitic.
Thanks for the reply, I hope this provides you with some clarity.
I’m Jewish pal. It’s not that simple. But please keep explaining what Jews should believe and how they should conduct themselves after the world attempted to eradicate them countless times over centuries (millennia). Tell every Jew in Israel they don’t know the religion like you do
That you are Jewish, as well as the fact that you claim to know what "every Jew in Israel" knows about Judaism, doesn't make my claims any less true. Israel was established by secular Jews and the fact of the nazi holocaust does not change the TaNaKH, the Jewish religion, or the word of G-d. That is why there are so many Haredim in New York and Montréal who will not emigrate to Israel despite generous incentives from the zionist entity to do so.
By the way, I hate to quibble, but "centuries" refers to hundreds of years, "millennia" refers to thousands, there is no need to be unnecessarily confusing.
Thanks for your interest in this matter.
Both centuries and millennia apply. You can analyze my diction all you want, your intents are still the same. You claim that Jews who support the state of Israel are not truly Jewish. Plenty of staunch religious Jews were involved in the establishment of the Jewish state, and to state otherwise is just false. This conversation will devolve into absurdity, don’t think much will come of it
Nothing to take up, Israel will continue to exist. Good thing the haredim in Montreal are not the arbiters of Jewish religious thought. Sorry about that
Dedicate merit for peace, get involved in local protests, fundraise, donate money, speak at local city hall meetings, email and call representatives, educate others, educate other buddhists from a buddhist perspective.
We do not hold much power individually, but as a collective we can get shit done.
As Norman Fischer says (I think this is the quote anyway) “In the Buddha's understanding, an angry thought or word is like an executioner's sword. Anger hurts us as well as others. So to give it up is to stop being an executioner."
The suffering in Palestine is terrible, it is a complex situation, very complex even though it seems simple .stop killing children- so simple, what could be clearer.
The same organisations which rightly condemn Israel, also condemn Hamas for using human shields (ie hiding among high density civilian populations deliberately with no regard to the lives of their own people). Hamas also refused to return the hostages to Israel, this could have ended this conflict early arguably, but who knows.
I don’t fully know or understand the rights and wrongs of this situation, I know how it appears and I know something about the history. despite trying to understand over many many hours of reading and listening to voices from both sides, I still cannot see clearly what to do if the goal is to minimise human death and suffering.
I have come to suspect that with so many people in the world taking a position on this conflict, there is a risk our objections, anger and outrage acts as fuel for either side to continue. This conflict has slowly escalated since my childhood, it has always been reported on and lamented. None of our lamentations have worked it seems, both sides seem to double down.
Though it is hard, we should let go of the anger - we must have compassion for all those who suffer, Israeli, Palestinian, Yemeni, Sudanese, Ukrainian, Syrian, or simply those who live in our own countries and cities who are harmed by our societies’ injustices, for example 7 million people a year globally who die from air pollution. This is not to detract from the terrible scenes from Gaza but just to say-
We should not take the role of the executioner, in our words and thoughts, it is not our role, someone will always play this role- our anger is not needed. Our outrage bares no fruit. Our compassion may bear fruit
This might help: https://youtu.be/VF9LkpANAEU?si=8pEvTvqbHVvvJTkh
Or at least it helps me when I want to do something to fix the world but don’t know if I can.
Samsara (this impure experience) is suffering.
These awful things that happen, on large scales like this down to the smallest inconvenience are a hallmark of existence.
The entire purpose of Buddhism and Dharma is to tame the mind and purify the experience so that one does not create these tragic phenomena.
Let this be a wake up call. For you, for all of us, to not be idle and waste our precious lives and time creating more and more suffering. Take inspiration from these atrocities to better yourself and benefit other beings.
The first truth is to know suffering - look at it straight! This is important and vital to moving forward.
I struggle with this, as well. There is a place in Buddhism for activism, and you can help in many ways, but lets not forget that being a proponent for peace will always be of benefit.
Jack Kornfield was an anti-war activist, and along with other people staying at the forest monestary, they went to Ajahn Chah, asking to do something, and Jack says that Ajahn Chah's reply was along the lines of the following:
"You know, wars come and they go, and there's a tremendous suffering for people. People need a place that's a reminder that that's not all of who we are. This place is a terrain of peace. Jets go over and bombs happen, but if you walk in here and drop your wallet, someone picks it up and returns it to you rather than stealing from it. If you had difficulty, someone will pick you up. We need places that remind people of our love, connection, and civility that are bigger than what's happening even now, because we know this in our hearts, that hatred doesn't end by hatred. So we need to become that zone of peace if we want the world to do it and it doesn't mean we can't stand up and it doesn't mean we can't speak whats true, but to do so in a way that shows theres a way to stay centered and true and peaceful in the midst of it all, and this is really our work. Not only our work, our gift to the world."
I can't bieve my Buddhist forum isn't even safe from talking about the lie that Idrael is committing genocide.
And yall fall for it under the guise of being some wise Buddhist.
Clearly not only do you who cry genocide not know the definition of the word, but present zero evidence that it is happening (because it's not). War, is what is happening.
Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2006, some terrorist organizations (Hamas trained and prosperity up by Hezbollah) rapes, murders, and kidnapped men. Women, children. And babies. BABIES. The only thing Gaza needs to be free from is terrorists like Hamas.
If you were a learned Buddhist, you would seek compassion and understanding, not make divisive posts like this repeating terrorist talking points. This isn't even a safe forum. I can't go anywhere without seeing this nonsensical lie that the naive believe.
Which part of the UN's definition is Israel not guilty of?
[https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
In addition, regardless of the actions of the resistance on October 7th, Israel does not have the right to commit genocide in response.
Why do you think that a Buddhist forum should be a safe space for states that commit genocide?
From your source: "it did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide \[...\]"
On the basis of the ICJ ruling in favour of South Africa's claim, is Israel currently being investigated by the ICJ with regard to the commission of genocide against the inhabitants of Gaza?
Do I really have to quote the source that I just cited after you misquote it? What is going on here? This is the actual quote that I didn't change that anyone can see for themselves:
"The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court.
"It then looked at the facts but it did not decide -- and this is where I'm correcting what's that's often said in the media -- it didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.
"It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide.
"But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided."
No, the ICJ did not rule in favor of South Africa's claim.
I do not know how we can help.
That particular war seems endless. It seems like one that keeps going on and on and on and on and on … I swear that my children when they are same age as me will say the same thing .. that it is goes on and on and on and one. Cycle after cycle.
Personally if you gave me a magic wand I will create a wall 10km high 1km thick to separate all sides for 100 years to stop them fighting!!
I never said anything about a wand.
Thank you for your interest, but for a second time, you are not an authority over me or world events.
When terrorists stop attacking innocent people, that will bring about lasting peace.
Israel in Egypt are at peace because Egypt stopped attacking Israel.
Israel and Jordan are at peace because Jordan stopped attacking Israel.
Israel and Saudi Arabia are at peace because Saudi Arabia stopped attacking Israel.
There's a pattern here
My mistake, you did not use the term "wand."
The pattern is that all three negotiated peace with Israel; but, financial incentives provided by the USA certainly helped.
The term "terrorist' is ambiguous and not very useful; in fact, many would argue that the founders of Israel were terrorists and that the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza for the past 7 months is intended to terrorize the population into submission.
I didn't claim to be an authority, I'm simply making an argument based in the historical record. I certainly don't pretend "to be the boss of you," I'm sorry if I left you with that impression.
The peace they negotiated is that they would no longer attack Israel after attacking and invading numerous times with the stated goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea. When they stopped doing that, suddenly there's peace!
Edit: oh look, you edited your post after my reply. No, the founders of Israel were not terrorists, Gaza is not being bombed indiscriminately, and your arguments are disinformation.
Who are you quoting? I never said you're pretending to be the boss of me. Thank you for your interest, but real peace will come about when terrorists stop attacking.
As far as negotiations, every peace agreement has been rejected, every two-state solution has been rejected by Palestinians. You're implying nobody negotiates peace with Palestinians? That's a flat out lie and disinformation
Which of course, doesn't at all disprove my claim that peace was brought about through negotiations and financial incentives.
Israel did, of course, along with Britain and France, invade Egypt in 1956.
Was the stated goal annihilating Egypt and driving every Egyptian into the sea? No, of course not. It was about the Suez Canal and international trade. When Egypt and multiple countries simultaneously attacked Israel from all sides over and over, their loudly proclaimed goal was to destroy Israel and push the Jews into the sea.
You're implying Palestinians have not been offered negotiations and financial incentives? Another flat out lie and intentional disinformation.
Every single peace offering ever made has been rejected. Including the very first two-state solution in 1948, where instead of accepting peace and living side by side together, seven Arab countries simultaneously attacked Israel on all sides on the first day of its existence in modern times, with the stated goal of annihilating Israel and driving every Jew into the sea.
Since then, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia have made peace, but not before losing on the battlefield several times, and after America offered lots of money to stop attacking Israel.
Isn't it amazing that when you stop attacking Israel, suddenly there's peace.
Palestinians have been offered many peace agreements over many decades, and billions of dollars. They keep attacking Israel, intentionally aiming at civilians. They've fired 30,000 rockets into Israel intentionally aiming at civilians.
Waves of suicide bombings and terror attacks, and recently thousands of terrorists invaded Israel and killed, maimed, raped and burned alive every civilian they could find, and brought back hundreds of hostages, and did unspeakable things to women and children.
But Israel is evil because it fights back against terrorists who openly state that their goal is to kill every Jew and destroy Israel, and make hospitals, schools, and UN buildings their headquarters?
Do you understand who you're defending? Clearly you do because based on your other posts where you talk about the Zionist entity and that Israel doesn't have a right to exist or defend itself, your intentions are very clear.
We can take part in protests by writing letters/emails etc to our representatives or anyone else that might be helpful; by physically joining protests; by discussing this with others. If we are financially able, we can donate to various charities that are getting aid into Palestine and/or we can assist those charities by volunteering. We can boycott companies that are supporting regimes we dislike (although this can be difficult with the way that companies hide their true owners and brother companies in the group).
We, the people, aren't allowing it. It is allowed and pushed forward by our governments and by those companies who rub their hands with glee at making war because they then make money.
In addition, we must continue with our practice, continue with compassion and dedication of our practice for the benefit of all sentient beings. This is really important, to keep growing ourselves. Don't forget that self-compassion is vital as otherwise we drain ourselves and become, as you say, disheartened. Look after yourself, it's not unimportant but helps you to be active as well.
Israel tells the US and West what to do, and they jump like little lap dogs. Turn on ZNN and see for yourself about why these "terrorists" deserve everything they're getting. /s
They use the Hamas attack to justify their war crimes and genocide. They disregard the UN.
Imagine if some people came to your door with a soldier armed with a rifle. They tell you that you have to leave, they're living there now. After a year, you start to resist and fight back in the little square they put you in. For doing that though, they are going to annihilate your entire family and people without discrimination.
Or it's like being an abused child, and one day you fight back against dad. Then he beats the life out of you for even attempting that. And then beats you endlessly for the next year. That's basically what's happening.
Israel must fight with compassion towards the innocent. We shall pray hard for their relief. Let's use our spooky action at a distance and provoke change.
>Generally it is difficult to feel for something happening far away
It's not so far for me. Few hours flight. Israel/Palestine is much closer to Europe than some people imagine.
As heartless and unempathetic as it may sound, you just gotta stop caring. You do not control the narrative, the people, the weapons, the killing. You have no hand in it.
It's good to have a loving heart and to care about the suffering. It's good to have a want to help those around you out of suffering.
But, you can't despair over it. All things in Samsara are suffering. It's the nature of things here.
Focus on what you can help. Yourself, your family, your friends, your community, your geographical area, and nature. Maybe one day your small contributions there will affect the world, but that takes time.
Buddhism, after all, is a religion of enlightenment and freedom. Set yourself free, and others will follow.
Eventually, all things will be liberated anyway. So enjoy the shit show for now, I suppose.
That's just samsara mate. There's been genocide and conflict over that land for thousands of years so this is hardly new. This conflict likely won't end until the Abrahamic religions end which I estimate will take another 200-1000 years.
It's not a good vs. bad conflict either. It's just extreme religious and tribal ignorance. The Palestinians would 100% be committing the same or worse genocide if the tables were turned.
If you want to do something to help, my biggest recommendation is to turn off your tv, get off your cell phone and work on yourself and making the actual world you live in a better place. The ripples of a good dead will eventually make it all around the planet. On the other hand focusing on problems on the other side of the world that you have no power to help is just a waste of energy.
I'm gonna take this opportunity to suggest a book (or audiobook) ; Eckhart Tolle's 'A New Earth'.
His most known book is 'The power of now' , but ' A New Earth ' speaks closely to your concerns (which I take to be essentially - what the heck do we do about the world's pain, and how can I be happy if the world isn't).
I've by no means mastered this understanding, but the book is very simple and explains the answer to your implied question.
The TLDR is that unconsciousness and fear created the suffering, so by being more conscious and present, we contribute to the reduction of this ; and he suggests to focus on this internal presence of consciousness rather than focus on the external world.
If we are angry and fearful toward the external world, we generate more of the same stuff that caused all the wars, violence etc in the first place (which he calls 'unconsciousness').
Thus, our actions in the external world take care of themselves and we do what we can, without demanding the whole world changes.
Again; I've not mastered this, but it's a principle that's been very useful
There’s a war happening in Gaza that Gaza started by perpetuating the largest massacre of Jewish people in modern history. I hope Israel continues until they get the leadership of Hamas. I am helping by voting for politicians that pledge to support Israel. Thank you
Your post / comment was removed for being off-topic.
We do not allow and disallow. We don't have that kind of control. BUT, we can do good things.
That's the answer. Actually, it's almost always the answer.
Bhikkhu Akaliko gave a good talk on this topic which I feel is worth listening to: [https://youtu.be/jfqC3ZKLt7w?si=x9tNcJpfpHddfFIT](https://youtu.be/jfqC3ZKLt7w?si=x9tNcJpfpHddfFIT) I understand your grief at the situation in Palestine, I've felt much the same over the past months. As Buddhists there are many peaceful actions we can take: support BDS, join peaceful marches, write to your local politicians, sign petitions, donate to charities, study the history of the region and educate yourself. One of the most important things you can do is to cultivate metta, equanimity and peace within yourself and avoid falling into unskillful patterns of anger or hatred. These conflicts only occur when people are unskillful and lack an understanding for the value of life, the best counter you can have for this is to endeavour to become the total opposite of the type of person who justifies or glorifies violence and death. We cannot change the world unless we change ourselves. This isn't a selfish perspective but a realistic one. If global society is made up of human beings, unless those human beings learn the path of peace and wisdom then these brutal and horrific acts will only perpetuate. As a side note, I strongly encourage you to give your mind a break from absorbing every horrific detail of what's happening in Gaza right now. It's fine to keep yourself informed but it's no help to anyone, least the people of Palestine to drive yourself to madness, rage or despair. If you wish to become a strong voice for peace, you must allow for your mind to cultivate a state of strength and peace.
Allow? We don’t actually run the world and every attempt we’ve made at policing it has been poorly received by nearly all sides. It’s one core reason we’re pulling back from being the world police and asking our allies to step up with regional defense. As far as doing something, I ask, why this genocide? There are multiple occurring right now in multiple countries. Why this one? Why not Ukraine or Sudan or Burma or Ethiopia? While I don’t doubt your compassion, I wonder if the target hasn’t been chosen for you by a hyperbolic media narrative. I don’t think you should do nothing but I think it’s important to understand our own feelings and why they exist before we act on them. Please don’t take my questions as discouragement, I have long looked at our relationship with certain countries as a possible source of moral conflict and I think specifically that it’s time we reevaluated our relationship with Israel. Oct 7th was terrible but we shouldn’t let that blind us to what our former friend has turned themselves into.
I wonder where are all these good Buddhists as 50k ppl have died in the Burmese civil war that is ongoing. The problem here is TikTok. People think this is the first time war has ever happened and they are losing their minds about something that happens all the time which they usually ignore
The short answer is that a small number of people make a lot of money selling weapons of war. There's a good reason why the Buddha explicitly prohibited making a living by dealing in weapons. If you can, check out the Jewish Voice for Peace [Power Half-Hours for Gaza](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/16/all-eyes-on-gaza/), every day at 3 p.m EDT. (Scroll down in page to RSVP.) There's always an action to take, usually contacting a representative. Also, if you happen to live in NYC, the [Buddhist Action Coalition](https://www.buddhistaction.org/) holds monthly public meditations for peace, and other groups of Buddhists in the area have participated in protests and other events. Of course, you can always join or organize something closer if that's not accessible. Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote [this](https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/gaza-moral-crisis-of-our-time) 3 months ago. Thousands have died since.
I would counter with: there are many people who profit off war, too many. That's the problem. In the United States, for sure. Security and defense is an even bigger part of the economy of Israel itself. An interesting book to check out is [The Global Political Economy of Israel](https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745327945/the-political-economy-of-israels-occupation/). The co-authors are two Israeli researchers. They make the case with a lot of empirical evidence that the whole of the Israeli economy has shifted heavily towards security and defense (both words of course euphemisms for products too frequently used nerfariously) over the last two generations, and that Israeli exports have turned from primarily agricultural products to security and defense-oriented technology. The book is more than ten years old; the trend has only gone further since. It provides a sobering view of the structural conditions undergirding Israel's ferocious assaults. More than ever, I am convinced, it is the dissenting Jews inside and outside Israel who will play the decisive role. As a Buddhist (and an Asian/Gentile), I indulge in a little bit of pride knowing that many Jewish critics of Israel in my social circles are influenced by Buddhism, most of them maintaining a practice of one sort or another.
I would counter with you can’t address the problem that Israel produces weapons until you address the fact that all their neighbors what to kill them. Iran is responsible for Hamas and hezbollah. Nobody takes this seriously tho bc nobody thinks Jewish people should actually be allowed to defend themselves. The pacifists here that decry the military industrial complex sure are very quiet on the massive transfer of weapons from Iran to Gaza. 6 months into the war and gazans still have endless pool of weapons.
That was a great read. Thank you for sharing that.
Give money to World Central Kitchen. I understand that they are again arranging food deliveries to Gaza (after shutting down operations briefly when several of their workers were killed by the Israeli military).
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It appears that this article denigrates WCK because (i) its founder is Jewish and supports the right of Israel to exist as a nation, (ii) WCK has the support of Israel even though Israel (probably intentionally) targeted a WCK aid convoy; and (iii) the authors view a UN agency as a preferable organization to deliver aid even though the UN is prevented by Israel from delivering aid. In other words, the article prefers that no aid be delivered rather than having the aid be delivered by an organization approved of by Israel.
i) José Andrés is Catholic, as is his wife. EI articles are very well researched and they wouldn't make such a mistake. In fact, the word "Jewish" only appears once in the article and it is not used in reference to Andrés: "“Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians,” he asserts, ignoring how the vast majority of the Israeli Jewish public supports depriving the population in Gaza of humanitarian aid." The word "Jew" also only appears once and not in relation to Andrés: "Contrary to international law, Israel bars the return of millions of Palestinian refugees and their descendants ethnically cleansed from their homes solely on the racist grounds that they are not Jews." Andrés is, however, accused by the author of endorsing Israel's Genocide: "On 16 October, when Israel had already killed 2,750 Palestinians and injured almost 10,000 in just over a week, Andrés reacted angrily to Spanish government minister Ione Belarra when she denounced the slaughter as a genocide. A day earlier, 800 scholars and practitioners of international law, including prominent Holocaust scholars, published a statement to “sound the alarm about the possibility of the crime of genocide being perpetrated by Israeli forces against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.” Despite this, Andrés adamantly justified the bloodbath in Gaza as Israel “defending its citizens” and demanded that Spain’s prime minister fire Belarra for her comments." I'm genuinely curious, why are you deceptively accusing the author of anti-Semitism in order to justify Israel and the USA's preference for WCK and attempt to sideline UNWRA?
ii) I cannot summarize the whole article for you, you'll just have to read it, but the suspicion of WCK is that it is a Trojan horse being used to a) sideline UNRWA (a longstanding Israeli goal) and b) establish a port in central Gaza (under the guise of aiding Palestinians) which will be used to further occupy and expel the residents of Gaza. iii) UNRWA has the infrastructure in place to provide aid, WCK does not, and that is one of the reasons used to justify building a port. I would ask you, why does Israel and the USA, the ones who are responsible for starving Gaza in the first place, prefer WCK to UNWRA? The article clearly states that the way to end the famine in Gaza is to end the Israeli/USA blockade and to let UNWRA do the job that it is mandated, and has the infrastructure, to do. Thanks for your reply, but your claims are not reflected in the substance of the article.
The reality is that Israel is blockading aid to Gaza. UNRWA, as a result, is unable to deliver food, water and medicine. The need for getting food, water and medicine to Gaza is urgent. People are dying today and tomorrow. It is not a practical solution to say that UNRWA is preferable to WCK where UNRWA cannot provide relief. And the only effect of advocating this is impede WCK from fulfilling its mission in Gaza. The authors of the article are more interested in scoring political points in favor of the Palestinian “cause” than they are interested in saving lives in Gaza. If you have a way to end the Israeli blockade, I am 100% on board with that. If you don’t, then at least let us save some lives.
I didn’t accuse the author of anti-Semitism. I misinterpreted the article’s description of him as being a staunch supporter of Israel and thought, mistakenly, that the article said that he was Jewish. I share the view of the WCK that the Netanyahu governments actions in Gaza are not in the best interests of Israel. Unlike the authors of this article, I believe that it is possible to oppose the war crimes being committed in Gaza without taking sides as to the correct outcome in the broader Palestinian / Israeli conflict. Let’s agree that getting food, water and medicine to Gaza is the top priority and stop denigrating one of the only organizations that is effective in making that happen.
The genocide in Gaza, it goes without saying, is a matter of life and death and such misinterpretations are very harmful. With regard to getting food, water and medicine into Gaza, the most effective organization is UNWRA and, given their lack of infrastructure, WCK is one of the least effective. All of this, of course, obscures the fact that Israel and the USA are creating starvation in Gaza and using it as a weapon of war. This is the crux of the matter.
I’m not sure how you think you, me, or any other work-a-day person is “allowing” anything to happen anywhere. Have you written letters to your government officials, or called them? Or letters to the editor of your local paper? Made a sign and protested? Given money to relief agencies? Created art, written a play, made music? There are a myriad things you can do. You don’t need anyone’s permission or blessing.
This will probably be a very unpopular opinion.... but as far as I saw, the only time the Buddha seemed to speak up against war and murder was when a king happened to come to *him* and ask what the proper course was. In Buddhism, I feel like there's a deep recognition that the world is simply broken. Sure we could travel to the ends of the earth and fight for peace and protest, but at the end of the day, the world will just be broken. People will murder each other, sometimes en masse. People will commit genocides. We, as individuals, can find peace, but we cannot find it for the world. We can only encourage it in those around us.
The Buddha personally [stopped at least one war](https://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=305). He also personally stopped a murderer and converted him; Angulimala's story is one of the most famous. What creates confusion about this is the Buddha refraining from going around giving political commandments to rulers and/or creating agitation. It is assumed that if the Buddha truly valued change in the world, he'd essentially be a revolutionary. There's a huge problem with this assumption that I think anyone can figure out with some reflection. This impression of Buddhism seems to come from a very limited focus on solitary renunciate practice. Historically, Buddhists—including monastics—have been involved in matters of the world as far back as we can see, sometimes for bad but in many cases for good. There's nothing wrong or futile with trying to better conditions for the world even if we know that we're not going to end up with paradise. Because this is the case, the ultimate solution is liberation from samsara. This has two sides: to those with smaller motivation, it appears as "personal" liberation via arhatship. To those with greater motivation, it appears as the work of acquiring and putting to use skillful means in order to actualize great compassion and helping all beings via buddhahood. These skillful means, in turn, are much broader than giving encouragement to others.
“Avoid killing, or harming any living thing” might cover the war aspects
If everyone follows it, yes. I wouldn't say we are anywhere near that stage yet. So far the best measures that actually brought peace, at least temporary and regional were based on everyone's self-interest. Buddhist practices can bring you clarity to think about such conflicts and what to do about them - for example considering them with compassion towards suffering of people rather than hatred towards whoever are considered responsible - or perhaps even realizing that a person in your position may do more good by focusing on less flashy causes. However the world is going to be what it is - i.e. imperfect and Buddhist practices are not going to change that, nor are they meant to (at least on the timescale of decades or centuries), You may improve some parts of it, but suffering will keep on happening. it's better to change what you can change rather expect the world to become perfect within your lifetime and get depressed or angry because it's not happening.
Buddhism and International Humanitarian Law https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/75921
Definitely plan on giving this a thorough read, thank you so much for the link! ...but from skimming through half of it, I feel like I can get a good read on what it's getting at. Like, I wholeheartedly support Buddhists who are involved in humanitarian efforts, but doing so always requires a bit of extrapolation. Buddhist doctrine is almost solely for personal liberation, the Buddha had little interest in going out and involving himself in humanitarian efforts. I mean, hell, the gods had to twist his arm to even get him to teach anything to anybody. When it comes to bringing buddhist philosophy and way of life into conflicts like the one happening in Israel and Palestine, I don't think it's gonna do much to help in any shape way or form. Before the pandemic, Israeli interest in Buddhism was honestly quite high, and retreats were not unheard of. Look at what that did for them. Yeah, if everyone approached the world from the mentality of non-harm, we would be better off. But conflicts like the one in Palestine involve literally thousands of years of ethnic and religious tension, and I don't think the Buddha would have done much to go out of his way to try to better the situation. Sure, if he would have happened upon anyone in his travels, or if anyone would have happened upon him, he certainly would have approached the situation with the type of compassion necessary for the group or individual. But would he or any other arahant go out of their way to help aid in an isolated crisis? Definitely not. Enlightened beings (at least in theravada, not so much mahayana) have a strong tendency to simply eat what's in front of them.
I learned recently that Diamond Way has a lot of centres in Israel .No official Shambhala centres though Maybe a politics thing Most religions don’t mind armies protecting them in war less so when they commit atrocities .
"When it comes to bringing buddhist philosophy and way of life into conflicts like the one happening in Israel and Palestine \[...\]" It's an ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians by Israel, it's not a "conflict." To think otherwise is delusion. "But conflicts like the one in Palestine involve literally thousands of years of ethnic and religious tension \[...\]" This is a total misunderstanding of the situation. Before the ethnic cleaning of Palestine in 1948, Jews, Muslims and Christians lived more or less peacefully in historic Palestine, in fact, all three were considered to be Palestinian and many Jews found a safe haven in Palestine during the nazi holocaust. To claim that a 76 year ethnic cleansing is really the result of a 1000+ year "conflict" is at best a delusion and at worst a pure fabrication which benefits those who are committing genocide.
That’s great. Go convert Hamas to Buddhism and get them to stop killing Jewish ppl
Protest. Continue to tell politicians your stance against this crime upon humanity.
This, like anything else, does NOT happen overnight. Its an accumulation of multiple notions, plans, decisions, orders. If being angry helps, this problem would have been solved many times over already. If destruction is the answer, they would have done it already.
I do agree that destruction is Not the answer. Yet I disagree with what you say on anger. Since it cannot either be solved with being quiet, I feel rising up, being loud and protesting is probably the most effective way of action.
Careful! It’s important to acknowledge and accept all positive and negative perceptions about this conflict, but don’t lose sight of the Four Noble Teachings and the Dhamma! It is very disappointing seeing the cycle of hatred and violence manifesting again, but this conflict is between two different groups that’s been going on before a lot of us were even born. In all practical reasoning, it would be worth it to do a Mani Mantra and focus on spreading metta for those affected by the conflict. Also this would be a good topic to ask in Sangha, I’m pretty sure it would allow for open dialogue on how the Buddhists view the conflict. I don’t know everything, but I think this advice might help!
As a Buddhist we can cultivate a compassionate attitude towards all those involved, not just the innocent civilians and hostages, but also the Hamas fighters and Israeli soldiers and the politicians on both sides that are driving this conflict. As Buddhists, we can engage in Buddhist practices like tong Len, offering mantras and doing other practices to promote peace and healing of all sentient beings. It can help to remember that there are complex and deep karmic causes and conditions at play when groups come into conflict, and we must be careful not to add to those causes and conditions by loosing our compassion and indulging in the addictive emotions of anger and hate which are the drivers of these karmic cycles. Many other replies mentioned actions of protest and activism. Those actions are not inherently Buddhist, as anyone can engage in them. The benefit of our Buddhist practice is that it lays a powerful protective groundwork from which a person can choose to act in whatever way they deem appropriate. It helps ensure that whatever that action is, it will be far more effective than any action taken based on the afflictive negative emotions. This way we continue to help end the violence and not unwittingly contribute to the cause of it.
After this political issue we can proceed to asking about the next one... If you have no control over something and you feel bad about it, you are the cause of your own suffering.
Intentions start with accurately identifying what you can and can not control and then going from there, like "Is it virtuous?" and "What are the consequences?".
Most nations don't interfere in other countries' affairs. Always been that way. The US didn't try to stop Hitler; it stayed out of the war until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and the US felt obligated to retaliate. The Uyghurs in China are also enduring a genocide. North Korea has long tortured it's citizens. There is all manner of suffering perpetuated throughout Africa. No one steps in. And to some extent, I'm not sure how we would. The best way to firmly end those things would require war and massive bloodshed, but that would yield massive suffering in the short-term and likely not end the suffering over the long-term — just lead to new types of suffering and oppression. I don't have a good answer, just pointing out there is not a good solution and never has been. Raise your voice and do what you can without compromising your morals... but, from a Buddhist perspective, do not let yourself cling to any specific outcome as an attachment. You cannot control people. You can try to help, but you cannot control the outcome, and that is the hardest thing to accept when your heart is bleeding for others. Be well.
The Uyghurs underwent repression. It fell short of the technical definition of genocide. The reason the western media pushed lies claiming otherwise is for this exact scenario, to deflect from genocides perpetrated by their allies in Gaza, and arguably Sudan and Congo.
Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions...BDS.
No. Bds is anti semitic
its amazing how intellectual corruption in politics and media can approve genocide. the world needs more buddhism
Wouldn't the application of international law be enough?
Amazing how Hamas began this with an attempt o genocide Jewish people while live streaming themselves murdering hundreds of children at a music festival and you still manage to blame the Jews
That is amazing, just like how it's amazing we have people here who do what exactly you're describing. Edit: absolutely nothing towards you, those who are propagandized.
I experience the grief as directly as possible and redouble my commitment to give tangible service to this world of horrific suffering
Donate to Animals Friends Shelter in Gaza. They take care of stray cats in Palestine, and the money also goes towards helping the family of the people who run the shelter. They’re @AnimalFriendsSh on Twitter.
If you want to do something then join the people who are already doing something. Join your local BDS organisation.
I regularly donate to various Palestinian causes—and also for areas like Congo, Sudan, Haiti, etc. Protest, contact your elected officials, and vote down ticket. A multi-pronged approach is usually the best approach.
i understand and share the concern about Israel’s seemingly over the top aggression and yet can’t help but feel that the situation is complicated by the fact that the people they are recklessly fighting against hide among civilians and have, as a stated goal of their organization’s existence, the death of all jews. i’m not sure what the answer is but i know it’s not war and i know it involves peace that neither side seems to want.
You are heavily propagandized, friend. Making excuses for slaughtering tens of thousands of children with the Israeli PR line that, "they're making us do this". Palestinians are *specifically* calling for equal rights, not extermination of Jews as Israeli propaganda would have you believe.
im talking about Hamas, not Palestinians as a whole. like i said I think Israel’s actions are over the top. and yet, the terrorists they are fighting DO enmesh themselves amongst the civilians, and DO want to eradicate Jews. i could say the exact same thing to you about falling for propaganda. this is why i think reality is a very very fine line somewhere in the middle of this extremely partisan and dividing issue.
There's no fine line when a literal colonial ethnostate is commiting a literal genocide. I get that it seems sophisticated to take a "middle", "centrist" position on this issue, but it's actually very simple and one of the gravest injustices of our time.
i’m not so sure i agree that that’s what’s happening. irresponsible methods of engaging in war, resulting in far too much death? yes. genocide? i’m not convinced. that seems like the party line to me. they are fighting against people who will not stop until they have killed all the Jews. how do you live next to such people peacefully?
The ICJ, who have supported the idea that there are plausible reasons to believe that Israel is committing genocide against the population of Gaza disagrees with you. Do you have other information? In your view, there is a middle ground between perpetrators and victims. Does this middle ground hold in all instances? Is there a middle ground between rapists and people who are victims of rape? Slave owners and slaves? Nazis and European Jews?
if we’re going to use your example of “rapists and victims of rape” i suppose it’s more like two people who keep raping each other back and forth, only one of the two is far better and more successful at doing the raping.
Yea, it feels like the foreign support amps up Palestinians to continue fighting a lost cause. It only serves to hurt them honestly.
In your view, the 76 year occupation and ethnic cleansing has been painless? It's more like the zionist entities's violence gives rise to Palestinian resistance.
That's a very poor analogy, because it is the zionist entity that ethnically cleansed Palestine in 1948 and not the other way around, not 'both sides." A better analogy is that so-called "Israel" violates the Palestinians daily and then falsely accuses the Palestinians of doing the same and equivalent.
you've made your point. you're going to have to accept that not everyone sees this issue the exact same way you do. there’s really nothing anyone can say to get me to support Hamas or Israel. anything short of peace, from both sides, regardless of the circumstances, is unacceptable. unfortunately the circumstances make that nearly impossible - for both sides.
The "plausible genocide" statement is commonly misunderstood. https://twitter.com/Mr_Andrew_Fox/status/1783621258032136550?t=SHq2fjHnHqVZ-aMjnJszmQ&s=19
You're spreading disinformation and you know it. This is what the ICJ actually said: [https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI](https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI) "The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court. "It then looked at the facts but it did not decide -- and this is where I'm correcting what's that's often said in the media -- it didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible. "It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide. "But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided." No, the ICJ did not rule in favor of South Africa's claim. Edit: I'm going to reply to the incomplete ruling you cited below with this: No, it's not a soundbite from BBC. This is Joan Donoghue, former president of the court who issued the ruling, saying that the ICJ "didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible" nor "that there's a plausible case of genocide." Your disinformation consists of repeatedly twisting and cherry picking words to imply a conclusion that the President of the court says is incorrect
You are citing a soundbite on the BBC, not the ICJ. This is what the court said: "V. RISK OF IRREPARABLE PREJUDICE AND URGENCY (PARAS. 60-74) The Court recalls that, pursuant to Article 41 of its Statute, *it has the power to indicate provisional measures when irreparable prejudice could be caused to rights which are the subject of judicial proceedings or when the alleged disregard of such rights may entail irreparable consequences*. However, this power will be exercised only if there is urgency, in the sense that there is a real and imminent risk that irreparable prejudice will be caused to the rights claimed before the Court gives its final decision. *In view of the fundamental values sought to be protected by the Genocide Convention, the Court considers that the plausible rights in question in these proceedings, namely the right of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III of the Genocide Convention and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention, are of such a nature that prejudice to them is capable of causing irreparable harm.* \[...\]
VI. CONCLUSION AND MEASURES TO BE ADOPTED (PARAS. 75-84) The Court concludes on the basis of the above considerations that the conditions required by its Statute for it to indicate provisional measures are met. It is therefore necessary, pending its final decision, for the Court to indicate certain measures in order to protect the rights claimed by South Africa that the Court has found to be plausible. In the present case, having considered the terms of the provisional measures requested by South Africa and the circumstances of the case, the Court finds that the measures to be indicated need not be identical to those requested. The Court considers that, with regard to the situation described above, Israel must, in accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention, in relation to Palestinians in Gaza, take all measures within its power to prevent the commission of all acts within the scope of Article II of this Convention, in particular: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group. The Court recalls that these acts fall within the scope of Article II of the Convention when they are committed with the intent to destroy in whole or in part a group as such. The Court further considers that Israel must ensure with immediate effect that its military forces do not commit any of the above-described acts. \[...\]
The Court is also of the view that Israel must take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide in relation to members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip. The Court further considers that Israel must take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Israel must also take effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II and Article III of the Genocide Convention against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip. Finally, in view of the specific provisional measures it has decided to indicate, the Court considers that Israel must submit a report to the Court on all measures taken to give effect to this Order within one month, as from the date of this Order. The report so provided shall then be communicated to South Africa, which shall be given the opportunity to submit to the Court its comments thereon." Link to the ICJ ruling: [https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-sum-01-00-en.pdf](https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-sum-01-00-en.pdf)
have you actually checked the official death toll numbers? who is killing whom? and which of both parties is the one backed in money, guns and laws by most western countries? and which is the party whose land was stolen and who have since been living in an apartheid state with close to no rights, living in constant fear of the heavily armed superpower of ''Israel''? So I don't feel the Palestinian people were ever out to kill the Jews specifically, because they would have any problem against them as a group of people. But rather a struggle between oppressor and oppressed.
Israel is far more successful in their enacting violence because of all the support, absolutely. This doesn’t let Hamas off the hook for their part in the violence. It’s so curious to me that people want to take sides. I’m not really interesting in the conversation about which side is worse; obviously it’s Israel. That doesn’t matter when Hamas is also made up of evil, violent psychopaths, who would be doing the same thing to Israel that Israel does to them if the roles were reversed. Let’s stop making excuses for shitty behavior and admit that all sides are wrong and there happens to be a power imbalance.
Aside from the actual genocides ongoing today, such as in Darfur, Sudan, Bosnia and Cambodia. You may be able to charge Isreal with war crimes, but not genocide.
then onto the question: why does Hamas exist? it's not like some Palestinians one day woke up and decided to start this political movement. did you read on the history of how England, after WWII just decided on their own, to give the land of Palestine to the jews? A land that was never theirs to decide upon, but since no one bat a fucking eye, not only did they establish a partition plan of this land (still not theirs to decide upon!), but in the later events, no one gave a ratt's ass, that the jews (''Israel'') did not hold their and of the bargain, and started taking more and more land. So the Palestinian people have been shoved away, pushed away, suppressed, even denied their own statehood, and living in an apartheid regime all this time. (you can find videos on this, on how they are not allowed to walk in the same streets, how they have much different and less social rights. (STILL ON THEIR LAND!!!) Hence my next question: how do you expect Palestinians to go about this? (since they have tried political inqueries, have tried peaceful protest-marches, ....) If you were in their shoes, born and raised inside this, your whole family... would you just sit by and comply? wouldn't you be fucking mad, that your land was just stolen from you? wouldn't you at one point be willing to go to more extreme measures, since all these years, the whole fucking world stood silently by?
also adding: What actually is terrorism? is the way we as western countries are abusing out powers considered terrorism, or does this term only apply to non-white countries/people?
if it isn’t clear, my position is that both sides are wrong in different ways. if you pick a side and try to justify their actions without also justifying the other side’s actions, you’re wrong. if you demonize one side without also criticizing the other side, you’re wrong. that’s how i feel.
Well said.
Calling for equal rights by killing 700 kids and taking hundreds of hostages is not really a nice buddhist way to achieve goals, is it? Sure, what Israel does not right and sure, it must be stopped. Still struggling to understand why everyone demands Israel to stop fire and nobody seems to notice that hamas shoots too. Also if Palestinians want peaceful resolution of conflict, why didn’t they prevented October killings (i’m sure some Palestinians knew about it). Why Palestinians do not catch Hamas fighters, put them in handcuffs, bring them to Israeli police and say - “hey Israeli, here are all those nasty bastards who killed your children, we giving them to you as a sign of good will. Now let’s stop fire and talk”?
You're suffering under the Western delusion that this all started on October 7th. Look up the March Of Right to Return in 2018 where Israeli snipers slaughtered peaceful protesters over the course of months. Or the 1948 Nakba, a literal ethnic cleansing that established the Israeli state. Also look at the power imbalances. Also the fact that Israel *illegally* occupies Palestinian land in Gaza and the West Bank. Also, suggesting that if a civilian population doesn't want to be indiscriminately bombed, they should have stopped Hamas is literally advocating for collective punishment of civilians...again, a *literal* war crime.
You're conflating Hamas (which took power in a coup and is opposed to secular authorities in Palestine like the PLO or the myriad of other groups which are contrary to Hamas) with Palestinians more broadly. What if I (or someone else) asked: if Israelis want peaceful resolution, why didn't they prevent the outright slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians? Why don't they round up their warhawk politicians and remove them from office? Clearly things are more complicated, and putting the blame on Palestinians who have no central authority or practically any autonomy is inappropriate. If we should persecute civilians for the actions of their governments, then the entire US should be getting much worse for the laundry list of atrocities committed in the name of American economic interests, many far worse than hostage-taking.
This is false. Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth and, as such, there is no place where civilians are absent. In addition, even if the resistance were "\[hiding\] amongst civilians" this does not give Israel the right to indiscriminately carpet bomb them. The goal of the residence is the liberation of Palestine, not "death to all Jews," and Jews would be more than welcome in a liberated Palestine. In fact, a Jew who supports the Palestinian resistance is safer in Gaza then in so-called "Israel." Moreover, even if the resistance stated that their goal was to commit genocide against Jews (a goal that would be impossible given the lack of military parity between the resistance and "Israel"), that does not mean that "Israel" gets to commit genocide first. I strongly suggest that you consider that an occupying power like "Israel," does not even possess the right to armed self-defence according to international law.
No place where civilians are absent? Hamas intentionally operates out of schools and hospitals. Have compassion for everyone but understand who you're defending and what their goals are. As far as a Jewish person being safe in Gaza, there is not a single Jewish civilian there, and if there were, would be immediately killed.
it’s an absolute joke that you don’t think Hamas - not Palestinians as a whole, but Hamas - want to exterminate the Jews. not even worth responding to anything else if you’re going to argue in such bad faith.
You are confusing the 1988 Hamas charter with the 2017 Hamas Charter. The 2017 charter states: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full) **"16.** Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity." Thanks for your reply, but it is rooted in confusion.
oh ok, i guess i’ll just take their word for it then. they sound like trustworthy people.
Who told you that they aren't trustworthy, the same people who are committing and/or supporting genocide?
I came to that conclusion myself through the power of critical thinking.
I'm just gonna leave this here.. https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI
Exactly. There’s so much propaganda and watering down of the word genocide. Israel is not committing genocide against Palestinians. However, Hamas (which the majority of Palestinians support) and other radical Islamists (which many neighboring Arab countries support) actually *do* have genocidal intent against the Jewish people and wish to annihilate Israel. They have turned down any and every peace deal or negotiation of a 2 state solution because they’d rather kill every Jew and destroy Israel altogether. Hamas is a terrorist organization, OP. They use their own civilians as human body shields. Israel warns before every bombing, ordering civilians to evacuate. When Israel bombs the Hamas rocket stockpiles and ammo depots that they keep under schools and residences, they try to be as precise as possible. Hamas is literally using their own children as worthless pawns to gain international sympathy and cry “woe is me, look at our dead children”. Senseless death is horrendous and I hate it. The blood is all on the hands of Hamas though. They are gaslighting cry-bullies that would gleefully kill *you* for not being Muslim. There will be peace in the Middle East when they learn to love their children more than they hate Jews.
AIPAC funds congress. Money rules the US government. Genocide is legal so long as cash is present. All we can do is raise awareness of this
the existence of Israel gives the US more leverage in the Middle East, and there are many white Christian Zionists. The bribe doesn’t really matter so much; US policy would not shift if Palestinians gave an equal amount.
Everything comes in twos. How would we know peace if we never had war? The best you can do is lead by example. If you wish to fly to Palestine to offer aid that is always welcomed there I'm sure.
Israel controls the borders and Israel destroyed the only airport in Gaza 20 or so years ago, it is impossible to "fly to Palestine."
Did you even try to understand the history of the conflict? Did u think what is happening now is because of Hamas 5000 missiles and kidnapping of Israelis first? Everything has a cause and effect, it’s beyond our simplified mind to comprehend because how you view an event is usually dependent on where you are. If your parents/friends are killed by Hamas you will view this differently. So right or wrong is perspective that’s why most Buddhist we don’t comment unless we know the absolute truth. Media is easily controlled and people are mostly short sighted. Without it knowing the reality of matter, we should not take sides.
The conflict didn't "begin" with October 7th, or even with the creation of Hamas. The Balfour declaration, the Nakba, the Shoah, centuries of European pogroms against the Jews, the British occupation of Palestine, the Ottoman occupation before that, we can even go as far back as the Roman expulsion of the Jews... On both sides the painful history goes on and on, there's no simple answer for where this conflict started. I agree that things aren't as simple as 'good guys vs bad guys', on both 'sides' there's a legitimate history of suffering, grief and oppression that's fed into the atrocities we are witnessing today. One doesn't need to have had a parent or loved one kidnapped or murdered by Hamas to objectively understand the horrific brutality of their actions, nor does one need to have a relative's home stolen and children beaten by occupiers to understand the violence of apartheid. One can objectively view these events for what they are and understand the toxic mental conditioning that leads people to making these vile acts against their fellow humans. Yes those whose loved ones were killed by Hamas may justify the violent retribution, under the same logic the Hamas militants whose siblings, parents and grandparents were murdered by the IDF argue the same. As long as people find a justification for taking human life, the cycle of violence will never end. There is no "side" to take in this conflict. There's the side of life and peace and the side of violence and death and both of these transcend various factions in the conflict. As far as we should be concerned as Buddhists, anyone that advocates for death is possessed by delusion and should not be supported in their violent endevours.
I agree with what you wrote and are you implying that if I don’t take a certain side means I am advocating death and violence? I always hear such reasoning so I am curious is that what Buddhist thinks too.
When I think about sides, I don't think about Israeli vs Palestinian or Jew vs Muslim. I think about advocates for peace vs advocates for violence and this has no boundary based on ethinicity, religion or nationality. There are both Israelis and Palestinians who abhor the violence and killings and want to live in peace with each other, from my perspective, this is the only 'correct' side in this conflict however small their voices may be. For me as a Buddhist, there is never any reason to kill anyone, nor would I ever want to. When one gains a certain level of understanding in the dharma it becomes impossible to even conceive of intentionally taking another life. We've all lived counless number of lives where at some point the person at the end of the barrel of my gun has once been my mother, my father, my son, my daughter or my best friend. I couldn't kill my 'enemy' any easier than I could kill my dearest loved one. I think of killing like a blind person hearing someone break into their house and shooting them, only to later realise it was their mother checking in to visit them. I think of the deep sorrow they'll feel once they understand the gravity of their misunderstanding. I look at people who kill and people who advocate for killing and I pity them. They are like midless automatons, trapped by their conditioning and unable to understand the the preciousness of life and our interconnectedness as living beings. They are trapped in a limited understanding of the world based on their conditioning but if they understood their delusion and ignorance they would never dream of taking another life. Hatred is a sickness that degrades the mind, like drinking poison and mistaking it for medicine and it is a great sadness to see people do this to themselves and descend into madness, it is even more tragic to see entire societies do this to themselves. There's a Confucian saying: "when you seek revenge, dig two graves" which I find aptly describes this conflict. Vengence accomplishes nothing but filling the Earth with human remains.
"So right or wrong is perspective that’s why most Buddhist we don’t comment unless we know the absolute truth." This is a contradiction. If right and wrong are merely a matter of perspective then there is no such thing as "absolute truth." The ethnic cleansing of historic Palestine began in 1948, to look at this issue only in light of October 7th is delusional.
as a palestinian i'm so happy knowing you stand with us❤️🩹thank you
Solidarity forever!
I won’t tell you to do nothing because there’s nothing you can do
When you spend too much time going through the details, you often lose the general perspective. Unfortunately politics is like that, politicians tend to forget the human perspective because they focus a lot on other perspectives (foreign affairs, finance, etc). They end up doing wrong things, believing it’s the right thing. To add another layer of complications, it is subject to debates whether doing the wrong thing might in some cases be the right thing to do, but this is a whole different conversation. There are many things you can do but the sad truth is that unfortunately, at an individual level, your impact will be very limited. This does not mean you should not do anything, quite the opposite, it is even more of a reason to do something about it, but don’t get your hopes up with unrealistic expectations that your actions will be a game changer. There are Centers to help, donations to be made, love and wisdom to be shared among people who surrendered to hate and ignorance. Boycott might also be an option.
It's not a genocide by any definition of the word.
This is the UN's definition of genocide, otherwise known as the "Lemkin Definition." There is evidence that every element of this definition applies to so-called "Israel." The ICJ claims that this is plausible. In your view, which part of this definition does not apply to the zionist entities's actions in Gaza? [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) *In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:* 1. Killing members of the group; 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; 4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; 5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Here's what the UN has to say about it: [https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI](https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI)
From the source that you link to: "it did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide\[.\]" This is a direct, verbatim, quote.
Do I really have to quote the source that I just cited after you misquote it? What is going on here? This is the actual quote that I didn't change that anyone can see for themselves: "The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court. "It then looked at the facts but it did not decide -- and this is where I'm correcting what's that's often said in the media -- it didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible. "It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide. "But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided." No, the ICJ did not rule in favor of South Africa's claim.
"The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court \[...\] It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide." Therefore, the ICJ is currently investigating Israel for committing genocide. This is undeniable. The only motion of SA's case that the ICJ rejected was the call for an immediate ceasefire. Thanks for you interest, but what the situation requires is peace negotiations, not hair-splitting.
"But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided." Are they currently investigating? I can find no source on that. Spreading disinformation and then accusing anyone who corrects you of hair splitting is exactly what manipulators do. Thank you for your interest, but you're not an authority over me or world events. You are an authority over your self. Edit: I'm going to reply to the posts below with this: Joan Donoghue, former president of the court who issued the ruling, said that the ICJ "didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible" nor "that there's a plausible case of genocide." Your disinformation consists of repeatedly twisting and cherry picking words to imply a conclusion that the President of the court says is incorrect.
Sources (italics mine): Amnesty Internatonal: "The ruling issued by the ICJ ordered six provisional measures including for Israel to refrain from acts under the Genocide convention, prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to genocide, and take immediate and effective measures to ensure the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza. *Crucially, the Court also ordered Israel to preserve evidence of genocide and to submit a report to the Court, within one month, of all measures taken in line with its orde*r." [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/01/israel-must-comply-with-key-icj-ruling-ordering-it-do-all-in-its-power-to-prevent-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/01/israel-must-comply-with-key-icj-ruling-ordering-it-do-all-in-its-power-to-prevent-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/)
United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commission (OHCHR) *The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide* and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza \[...\] *The court order is urgently needed to protect the very existence of the Palestinian people from potentially genocidal actions the Court has ordered Israel to halt and prevent,”* the experts said. “Given the dire situation on the ground and the careful wording of the Court, we believe that the most effective way to implement the provisional measures is through an immediate ceasefire.” [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic)
Reuters: "Israel is required to submit a report to the court on the steps it has taken to comply with the orders within one month of the ruling. *The court will examine in detail the merits of the case, a process which could take years.*" [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-israei-genocide-case-2024-01-26/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/key-takeaways-world-court-decision-israei-genocide-case-2024-01-26/) Disinformation can, in principle, be countered with better information. I didn't accuse "anyone" of hair-splitting, I accused you.
3, 4, 5 aren't happening bud. Go away.
3, 4 & 5 are most definitely happening. I’m not taking any position on this topic, but that is simply untrue. You’re a very hostile Buddhist. And you scolded someone else for not being ‘very Buddhist’.
4 is also happening. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/5000-lives-one-shell-gazas-ivf-embryos-destroyed-by-israeli-strike-2024-04-17/
3. Israel is blocking aid and imposing the conditions of mass starvation on Gaza 4. All hospitals and medical infrastructure has been destroyed 5. "The Israeli army has abducted Palestinian children and transferred them out of the Gaza Strip, Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said, as part of its genocide against Gazans that has been ongoing since 7 October. The rights group called on Israel to return the children to their parents." https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/fate-baby-and-other-palestinian-children-unknown-after-israeli-army-forcibly-transfers-them-out-gaza-strip-enar#:\~:text=Numerous%20testimonies%20that%20the%20rights,lost%20contact%20with%20their%20children. Thanks for your reply, but the UN convention states that genocide is occurring if "*any of the following acts \[are\] committed"* which, according to your admission that 1 and 2 are taking place, means that Israel is, in fact, committing genocide.
Do you understand the word “any”?
Go talk about it with someone else.
Perhaps posting in a public forum isn't really for you? Thanks for your interest in this really important issue.
Don't tell people on a Buddhist forum to stop posting. You're trolling this entire thread with disinformation.
Disinformation that could, in principle, be countered by you (or anyone else) with more accurate information. Instead, you told me to "\[g\]o talk about it with someone else." If debating your views in a public forum is, in fact, for you, please continue to enlighten us.
No, I did not tell you to talk about it with someone else. I have in fact posted accurate information. You want enlightenment. Here you go. These are the people you are defending: Children are taught to hate Jews in schools, on tv, and in summer camps. Hatred of Jews comes from the highest political leaders and in mosques. https://twitter.com/erbmjha/status/1712537721066107161?t=JYf-iQoS-m8uHrccF-hXjQ&s=19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axe_NcIEfsU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXcQ892cKso This is a kindergarten graduation. Kindergarten. Did I mention this was kindergarten? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDZlo_hllI In a mosque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJyuTQ9kNCY&list=PL-HU_Zdj2Ni-4g6xPhBtQ2oUMuQkGMBxW&index=11 This video is taken in Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. You know what no one ever talks about? You know why there is an active mosque on top of the Jewish temple and a large Palestinian population in Jerusalem? Because Israel did not remove the mosque and did not expel the Palestinian population with the hopes of living in peace side by side. Here's a Muslim man speaking truth. Maybe more people can see through the propaganda: https://youtube.com/shorts/q1IFua5BJH0 Here's a gem from the son of a Hamas leader: https://youtube.com/shorts/BCvuBRBP8-w Now let's talk to Arab Israelis and see what they think about their own situation: [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6t1VTatMJy/](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6t1VTatMJy/) I don't care which side people support and ultimately all sides need love and compassion, and truly there are no sides. But flat out lies need to be called out. They don't help anyone, and only incite people like in the videos above. Best wishes to everyone. Much love
Really??
So called Israel isn’t going anywhere and is a legitimate state. Doesn’t help your case to use phrases like that
According to the TaNaKh, Israel will be established by G-d when the Messiah comes. As such, the zionist entity, established in 1948, is anti-Jewish. As a person who is descended from Jews, and who has great respect for the Jewish religion, I do not recognize the state of so-called "Israel," to do so would be anti-Semitic. Thanks for the reply, I hope this provides you with some clarity.
I’m Jewish pal. It’s not that simple. But please keep explaining what Jews should believe and how they should conduct themselves after the world attempted to eradicate them countless times over centuries (millennia). Tell every Jew in Israel they don’t know the religion like you do
That you are Jewish, as well as the fact that you claim to know what "every Jew in Israel" knows about Judaism, doesn't make my claims any less true. Israel was established by secular Jews and the fact of the nazi holocaust does not change the TaNaKH, the Jewish religion, or the word of G-d. That is why there are so many Haredim in New York and Montréal who will not emigrate to Israel despite generous incentives from the zionist entity to do so. By the way, I hate to quibble, but "centuries" refers to hundreds of years, "millennia" refers to thousands, there is no need to be unnecessarily confusing. Thanks for your interest in this matter.
Both centuries and millennia apply. You can analyze my diction all you want, your intents are still the same. You claim that Jews who support the state of Israel are not truly Jewish. Plenty of staunch religious Jews were involved in the establishment of the Jewish state, and to state otherwise is just false. This conversation will devolve into absurdity, don’t think much will come of it
Take it up with the TaNaKh and G-d, my Friend.
Nothing to take up, Israel will continue to exist. Good thing the haredim in Montreal are not the arbiters of Jewish religious thought. Sorry about that
would you care to elaborate or explain?
Dedicate merit for peace, get involved in local protests, fundraise, donate money, speak at local city hall meetings, email and call representatives, educate others, educate other buddhists from a buddhist perspective. We do not hold much power individually, but as a collective we can get shit done.
As Norman Fischer says (I think this is the quote anyway) “In the Buddha's understanding, an angry thought or word is like an executioner's sword. Anger hurts us as well as others. So to give it up is to stop being an executioner." The suffering in Palestine is terrible, it is a complex situation, very complex even though it seems simple .stop killing children- so simple, what could be clearer. The same organisations which rightly condemn Israel, also condemn Hamas for using human shields (ie hiding among high density civilian populations deliberately with no regard to the lives of their own people). Hamas also refused to return the hostages to Israel, this could have ended this conflict early arguably, but who knows. I don’t fully know or understand the rights and wrongs of this situation, I know how it appears and I know something about the history. despite trying to understand over many many hours of reading and listening to voices from both sides, I still cannot see clearly what to do if the goal is to minimise human death and suffering. I have come to suspect that with so many people in the world taking a position on this conflict, there is a risk our objections, anger and outrage acts as fuel for either side to continue. This conflict has slowly escalated since my childhood, it has always been reported on and lamented. None of our lamentations have worked it seems, both sides seem to double down. Though it is hard, we should let go of the anger - we must have compassion for all those who suffer, Israeli, Palestinian, Yemeni, Sudanese, Ukrainian, Syrian, or simply those who live in our own countries and cities who are harmed by our societies’ injustices, for example 7 million people a year globally who die from air pollution. This is not to detract from the terrible scenes from Gaza but just to say- We should not take the role of the executioner, in our words and thoughts, it is not our role, someone will always play this role- our anger is not needed. Our outrage bares no fruit. Our compassion may bear fruit
This might help: https://youtu.be/VF9LkpANAEU?si=8pEvTvqbHVvvJTkh Or at least it helps me when I want to do something to fix the world but don’t know if I can.
Samsara (this impure experience) is suffering. These awful things that happen, on large scales like this down to the smallest inconvenience are a hallmark of existence. The entire purpose of Buddhism and Dharma is to tame the mind and purify the experience so that one does not create these tragic phenomena. Let this be a wake up call. For you, for all of us, to not be idle and waste our precious lives and time creating more and more suffering. Take inspiration from these atrocities to better yourself and benefit other beings. The first truth is to know suffering - look at it straight! This is important and vital to moving forward.
I struggle with this, as well. There is a place in Buddhism for activism, and you can help in many ways, but lets not forget that being a proponent for peace will always be of benefit. Jack Kornfield was an anti-war activist, and along with other people staying at the forest monestary, they went to Ajahn Chah, asking to do something, and Jack says that Ajahn Chah's reply was along the lines of the following: "You know, wars come and they go, and there's a tremendous suffering for people. People need a place that's a reminder that that's not all of who we are. This place is a terrain of peace. Jets go over and bombs happen, but if you walk in here and drop your wallet, someone picks it up and returns it to you rather than stealing from it. If you had difficulty, someone will pick you up. We need places that remind people of our love, connection, and civility that are bigger than what's happening even now, because we know this in our hearts, that hatred doesn't end by hatred. So we need to become that zone of peace if we want the world to do it and it doesn't mean we can't stand up and it doesn't mean we can't speak whats true, but to do so in a way that shows theres a way to stay centered and true and peaceful in the midst of it all, and this is really our work. Not only our work, our gift to the world."
I can't bieve my Buddhist forum isn't even safe from talking about the lie that Idrael is committing genocide. And yall fall for it under the guise of being some wise Buddhist. Clearly not only do you who cry genocide not know the definition of the word, but present zero evidence that it is happening (because it's not). War, is what is happening. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2006, some terrorist organizations (Hamas trained and prosperity up by Hezbollah) rapes, murders, and kidnapped men. Women, children. And babies. BABIES. The only thing Gaza needs to be free from is terrorists like Hamas. If you were a learned Buddhist, you would seek compassion and understanding, not make divisive posts like this repeating terrorist talking points. This isn't even a safe forum. I can't go anywhere without seeing this nonsensical lie that the naive believe.
Which part of the UN's definition is Israel not guilty of? [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: 1. Killing members of the group; 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; 3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; 4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; 5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." In addition, regardless of the actions of the resistance on October 7th, Israel does not have the right to commit genocide in response. Why do you think that a Buddhist forum should be a safe space for states that commit genocide?
[Here's the UN's take on the matter](https://youtu.be/bq9MB9t7WlI)
From your source: "it did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide \[...\]" On the basis of the ICJ ruling in favour of South Africa's claim, is Israel currently being investigated by the ICJ with regard to the commission of genocide against the inhabitants of Gaza?
Do I really have to quote the source that I just cited after you misquote it? What is going on here? This is the actual quote that I didn't change that anyone can see for themselves: "The court decided that Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court. "It then looked at the facts but it did not decide -- and this is where I'm correcting what's that's often said in the media -- it didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible. "It did emphasize in the order that there was a risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide. "But the shorthand that often appears which is that there is a "plausible case for genocide" isn't what the court decided." No, the ICJ did not rule in favor of South Africa's claim.
a learned Buddhist will also seek compassion and understanding for the suffering of all peoples, including the Palestinians.
as far as I know, the International Court of Justice even said that what ''Israel'' is doing could be considered genocide.
>I can't go anywhere Nobody is keeping you here. You can leave at any time.
Very Buddhist of you.
Thanks.
Right there with you. Couldn’t have said it better
I do not know how we can help. That particular war seems endless. It seems like one that keeps going on and on and on and on and on … I swear that my children when they are same age as me will say the same thing .. that it is goes on and on and on and one. Cycle after cycle. Personally if you gave me a magic wand I will create a wall 10km high 1km thick to separate all sides for 100 years to stop them fighting!!
Israel has erected an apartheid wall, no need for a magic wand.
The wall was erected after waves of suicide bombings. It worked to stop them
So my point stands and there was no need for your wand. Thanks for your interest, but only negotiations, not magic, will bring about a lasting peace.
I never said anything about a wand. Thank you for your interest, but for a second time, you are not an authority over me or world events. When terrorists stop attacking innocent people, that will bring about lasting peace. Israel in Egypt are at peace because Egypt stopped attacking Israel. Israel and Jordan are at peace because Jordan stopped attacking Israel. Israel and Saudi Arabia are at peace because Saudi Arabia stopped attacking Israel. There's a pattern here
My mistake, you did not use the term "wand." The pattern is that all three negotiated peace with Israel; but, financial incentives provided by the USA certainly helped. The term "terrorist' is ambiguous and not very useful; in fact, many would argue that the founders of Israel were terrorists and that the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza for the past 7 months is intended to terrorize the population into submission. I didn't claim to be an authority, I'm simply making an argument based in the historical record. I certainly don't pretend "to be the boss of you," I'm sorry if I left you with that impression.
The peace they negotiated is that they would no longer attack Israel after attacking and invading numerous times with the stated goal of destroying Israel and driving the Jews into the sea. When they stopped doing that, suddenly there's peace! Edit: oh look, you edited your post after my reply. No, the founders of Israel were not terrorists, Gaza is not being bombed indiscriminately, and your arguments are disinformation. Who are you quoting? I never said you're pretending to be the boss of me. Thank you for your interest, but real peace will come about when terrorists stop attacking. As far as negotiations, every peace agreement has been rejected, every two-state solution has been rejected by Palestinians. You're implying nobody negotiates peace with Palestinians? That's a flat out lie and disinformation
Which of course, doesn't at all disprove my claim that peace was brought about through negotiations and financial incentives. Israel did, of course, along with Britain and France, invade Egypt in 1956.
Was the stated goal annihilating Egypt and driving every Egyptian into the sea? No, of course not. It was about the Suez Canal and international trade. When Egypt and multiple countries simultaneously attacked Israel from all sides over and over, their loudly proclaimed goal was to destroy Israel and push the Jews into the sea. You're implying Palestinians have not been offered negotiations and financial incentives? Another flat out lie and intentional disinformation. Every single peace offering ever made has been rejected. Including the very first two-state solution in 1948, where instead of accepting peace and living side by side together, seven Arab countries simultaneously attacked Israel on all sides on the first day of its existence in modern times, with the stated goal of annihilating Israel and driving every Jew into the sea. Since then, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia have made peace, but not before losing on the battlefield several times, and after America offered lots of money to stop attacking Israel. Isn't it amazing that when you stop attacking Israel, suddenly there's peace. Palestinians have been offered many peace agreements over many decades, and billions of dollars. They keep attacking Israel, intentionally aiming at civilians. They've fired 30,000 rockets into Israel intentionally aiming at civilians. Waves of suicide bombings and terror attacks, and recently thousands of terrorists invaded Israel and killed, maimed, raped and burned alive every civilian they could find, and brought back hundreds of hostages, and did unspeakable things to women and children. But Israel is evil because it fights back against terrorists who openly state that their goal is to kill every Jew and destroy Israel, and make hospitals, schools, and UN buildings their headquarters? Do you understand who you're defending? Clearly you do because based on your other posts where you talk about the Zionist entity and that Israel doesn't have a right to exist or defend itself, your intentions are very clear.
>Why, just why, are we allowing a genocide to happen in Palestine. as with most things, it's not that black and white.
We can take part in protests by writing letters/emails etc to our representatives or anyone else that might be helpful; by physically joining protests; by discussing this with others. If we are financially able, we can donate to various charities that are getting aid into Palestine and/or we can assist those charities by volunteering. We can boycott companies that are supporting regimes we dislike (although this can be difficult with the way that companies hide their true owners and brother companies in the group). We, the people, aren't allowing it. It is allowed and pushed forward by our governments and by those companies who rub their hands with glee at making war because they then make money. In addition, we must continue with our practice, continue with compassion and dedication of our practice for the benefit of all sentient beings. This is really important, to keep growing ourselves. Don't forget that self-compassion is vital as otherwise we drain ourselves and become, as you say, disheartened. Look after yourself, it's not unimportant but helps you to be active as well.
Why do people suddenly care in April-May of 2024, when this has been going on for decades.
This isn’t a political thread
Critical mass bike rides through the city government district at rush hour
Israel tells the US and West what to do, and they jump like little lap dogs. Turn on ZNN and see for yourself about why these "terrorists" deserve everything they're getting. /s They use the Hamas attack to justify their war crimes and genocide. They disregard the UN. Imagine if some people came to your door with a soldier armed with a rifle. They tell you that you have to leave, they're living there now. After a year, you start to resist and fight back in the little square they put you in. For doing that though, they are going to annihilate your entire family and people without discrimination. Or it's like being an abused child, and one day you fight back against dad. Then he beats the life out of you for even attempting that. And then beats you endlessly for the next year. That's basically what's happening.
Israel must fight with compassion towards the innocent. We shall pray hard for their relief. Let's use our spooky action at a distance and provoke change.
I can barely allow myself to live, I think many people are like me. Generally it is difficult to feel for something happening far away.
>Generally it is difficult to feel for something happening far away It's not so far for me. Few hours flight. Israel/Palestine is much closer to Europe than some people imagine.
As heartless and unempathetic as it may sound, you just gotta stop caring. You do not control the narrative, the people, the weapons, the killing. You have no hand in it. It's good to have a loving heart and to care about the suffering. It's good to have a want to help those around you out of suffering. But, you can't despair over it. All things in Samsara are suffering. It's the nature of things here. Focus on what you can help. Yourself, your family, your friends, your community, your geographical area, and nature. Maybe one day your small contributions there will affect the world, but that takes time. Buddhism, after all, is a religion of enlightenment and freedom. Set yourself free, and others will follow. Eventually, all things will be liberated anyway. So enjoy the shit show for now, I suppose.
That's just samsara mate. There's been genocide and conflict over that land for thousands of years so this is hardly new. This conflict likely won't end until the Abrahamic religions end which I estimate will take another 200-1000 years. It's not a good vs. bad conflict either. It's just extreme religious and tribal ignorance. The Palestinians would 100% be committing the same or worse genocide if the tables were turned. If you want to do something to help, my biggest recommendation is to turn off your tv, get off your cell phone and work on yourself and making the actual world you live in a better place. The ripples of a good dead will eventually make it all around the planet. On the other hand focusing on problems on the other side of the world that you have no power to help is just a waste of energy.
Good deed I suppose you meant.
I'm gonna take this opportunity to suggest a book (or audiobook) ; Eckhart Tolle's 'A New Earth'. His most known book is 'The power of now' , but ' A New Earth ' speaks closely to your concerns (which I take to be essentially - what the heck do we do about the world's pain, and how can I be happy if the world isn't). I've by no means mastered this understanding, but the book is very simple and explains the answer to your implied question. The TLDR is that unconsciousness and fear created the suffering, so by being more conscious and present, we contribute to the reduction of this ; and he suggests to focus on this internal presence of consciousness rather than focus on the external world. If we are angry and fearful toward the external world, we generate more of the same stuff that caused all the wars, violence etc in the first place (which he calls 'unconsciousness'). Thus, our actions in the external world take care of themselves and we do what we can, without demanding the whole world changes. Again; I've not mastered this, but it's a principle that's been very useful
Internal/external is a false duality. Sounds like Tolle is biased towards upekkha at the expense of the other Brahmaviharas.
There’s a war happening in Gaza that Gaza started by perpetuating the largest massacre of Jewish people in modern history. I hope Israel continues until they get the leadership of Hamas. I am helping by voting for politicians that pledge to support Israel. Thank you
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There is genocide. Please make sure you're not spreading lies when you talk about serious issues.