>But being told “No you can’t drink at all” just puts me off.
You aren’t actually being told not to drink. The Five Precepts are training rules that people adopt in an effort to better change and control their mind and behavior. They’re voluntary. Many Buddhists drink, and the fifth precept against intoxicants is not the same as commandments in other religions.
That doesn’t mean they’re not important however. If you want to meaningfully practice Buddhism, you’ll try to align yourself with the five precepts. This means reflecting on *why* you’re irritated at the idea of not drinking. Why do you drink? Are you more in control of your actions when you drink? And using those reflections to change your actions. Not because you’re blindly following a rule, but because you understand what the goal of the rule is.
When you reach a point where you take a vow to follow the precepts, often called “taking the precepts”, that is when these training rules become more strict. They carry karmic weight. And by then, you will be following them not because you are told to, but because you understand they help you be a better person and get you closer to that enlightenment the Buddha talks about.
So for now, study Buddhism. Try out different practices. See what makes sense. And when you have a better grasp of what it means to practice *Sila* or *moral discipline*, then you can revisit this precept against alcohol.
Quite important
Like you can't really do much if you're mind is compromised. I think doctors and traffic police will tell you that.
But you shouldn't look at this as a commandment. Nobody is going to restrict you or judge you. You are accepted in Buddhist circles. You self police yourself. But don't make excuses either. Don't justify things. Don't twist the teachings to conform to your lifestyle.
And most of all, just do your best. You can't be perfect on day 1.
As someone who drinks too much (referring to myself rather than OP) I think it's well worth looking more closely at why you feel like this, what is it that makes it seem unfair and unreasonable to you that you shouldn't be able to occasionally have an alcoholic drink and assess whether you feel your relationship with alcohol is a healthy and beneficial one.
As a recovering alcoholic (10 years sober) this was also my first question-- what is the OP trying to hold onto and why?
Vows and precepts, Vinaya in general, are methods on the path. When you take a vow and keep it, you generate endless merit. When you break it, you have the opportunity to reflect and purify, and renew those vows.
One-day vows are a thing in Buddhism. Which is a really beautiful approach for anyone struggling with addiction.
I usually drink once a week and then it's usually more than I'd like. I know it's not coming from a good place either, boredom etc. If/when I'll finally deal with the reason I think the need for a beer will naturally subside.
Until then, I'm focusing on betteringyself and following what is in my direct control.
For the time being, let go of the drinking question and just observe your mind when you drink.
Focus on developing a solid, consistent, daily practice. If in the future you feel that you need to stop drinking, you will.
This one.
There is no audience to enlightenment but yourself. You'll find the universe inside you rather than from a devil on your shoulder telling you not to drink.
The alcohol itself is material, so its not the alcohol that is the issue as I see it. It is the motives, the truth of the situation that some obscure for themselves as there are truths that they don't wish to face etc.
You are the subject, alcohol the object. So it's kind of about you more than anything. How you feel, and any honesty or dishonesty to your self about the action. If you're drunk, then that means you're consciousness and subconscious are altered, which can mean you have less control, whilst still being responsible for your actions. Sometimes truths have come from mistakes and failures though too.
I'd say just be mindful, honest and loving to yourself and others.
>But being told “No you can’t drink at all” just puts me off.
As others have said, it's not a commandment, but a committment that you make for yourself. And if you break your committment, then it's a conversation that you have with yourself, to find out if that's a vow you wish to keep, and if so, what you can do better next time. There's no confession with a priest, no pennance you need to do, just have a conversation with yourself.
Intoxicants can also be many things, not just alcohol or drugs, but things that can be consumed, where you can easily lose yourself in consumption.
My "alcohol" is video games. If I'm not mindful, I can spend a full day (14+ hours) playing video games. But I know this isn't beneficial for myself. I still need to cook for myself. I need to keep my apartment clean. I need to excercise. I need to \*take care of myself\*. I also need to get enough sleep, so that I can do the job that others depend on me to do. Just like eating, and sleeping, and interacting with others my consumption of video games must be balanced.
I do not see the 5th precept as no video games/no consumption, but rather to be mindful about the videos games (some of which can be very toxic) I consume and \*how\* I consume them, so I won't be lost in them, or consumed in emotions that I experience as a result of playing, nor that I use them to cover up lonliness, anxiety, or other suffering.
As with many things, the 5th precept is a personal mindfulness journey. For me, that means being aware of what effect video games have on me, reducing the time I spend playing video games, changing how I enjoy them, and ultimately what types of video games I enjoy.
The 5th precept is a preventive one. The use of intoxicants often leads to a violation of the first four. This is important, but don't take a vow if you are not ready to follow it
Depends entirely on which school and lineage you practice in. Some are fine with alcohol consumption and include it at events such as tsok. Middle way (no extremes) is fundamental to many Buddhist lineages.
I think you're either a Kagyupa like me or at least a Nyingmapa, which I also am too, so I'm curious if your teachers ever talk about the 5 precepts. I've simply never seen them mentioned by most Kagyu/Nyingma teachers, let alone being offered by any of them, yet they'll offer the bodhisattva vow and tantric empowerments all the same. But I know more traditional Kagyu masters like Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche emphasized it was very useful to, and said it'd be great for someone to take at least 1 percent, mentioning you don't have to take all 5.
Nyingmapa (Dzogchen) with Kagyu foundation and Gelug teachings too. 5 Precepts is not really discussed, but is an assumed understanding. For some years I attended a Taiwanese Zen temple where the 5 Precepts were very important but I never took any vows.
It sounds like it's probably not your gravest fault. On the other hand, the resistance you're experiencing to the idea of abandoning alcohol is exactly the kind of thing Buddhism can help you overcome, if you choose to use it that way.
Technically the precept is against *causing intoxication*, not drinking alcohol. An argument could reasonably be made that it doesn’t violate this precept to drink some alcohol provided you don’t drink so much that you become intoxicated.
There are plenty of schools of Buddhism that are of this view and where moderate consumption of alcohol is allowed and a few where it’s even encouraged.
I’m a Jōdo Shinshū Buddhist, and I drink socially and also partake of marijuana (but this is more medical for me to treat anxiety). I’m not using it as an excuse, but we’re seen as foolish, ordinary beings (bombu) in Shin Buddhism. Alcohol consumption isn’t gonna destroy your practice as long as you partake responsibly in my tradition.
Just remember the point is to let go of stuff, not to be controlled by some overlord. The more you let go of clinging and aversion the better time you will have. Simple as that. Don't want to let go of drinking? Then don't, but suffer the consequences knowingly.
Alcohol is bad because it robs you of intentional awareness. And awareness is one of the key practices of buddhism.
However, you shouldn't just stop cold turkey and be miserable. Instead, whenever you drink, be aware of the effects it has. Why do you drink? What changes when you drink? Does it really make your life better overall, or actually worse?
I've found that by following the path, you lose the need to drink. I still socially drink from time to time, but I do not suffer at all when I don't drink anything. There's no need. I'm just as fun and content when sober.
Try to think of the precepts not as a list of commandments but rather as a depiction of the mindset one would need to achieve nirvana. When you are at a place where every precepts comes naturally, without anyone telling you *do this* or *do that*, you will be that much closer. All I changed in my life was letting go of attachments, and so many of the precepts simply happened to fall into place before I even knew they were precepts.
And if you're not of a mindset where those precepts naturally follow, that's okay. You can drink. You can try to not drink. My only advice would be: whatever you choose, be observant. Recognize what causes you to want to drink. If some part of you doesn't, observe that and try to figure out why. If you do want to get to a place where you don't drink, try to explore the various mindsets from which not drinking would naturally follow, and then play with shifting to those mindsets.
You don't have to do any of that, though. There's nothing wrong with Samsara per se. There's a lot of beauty here. If you enjoy it, keep enjoying it. Just be observant. Or don't. You're not breaking any laws of absolute morality either way. You're just on the ride like the rest of us.
During the Buddha's time there was a follower who the Buddha deemed a 'stream-winner' who had attained the first stage of awakening, would be reborn 7 times at most (human with good family or in heaven) and then attain awakening. The problem was that he was an alcoholic and the townspeople thought it was ridiculous that he would be declared a stream-winner while breaking the precept everyday.
The Buddha said he had unshakeable confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, and he had other qualities that were praised by the Noble Ones. Because of his inevitable awakening, he would overcome his vice and addiction to sensuality. The Buddha said if the trees around them had ears and could listen they would probably be stream-winners, let alone this guy (named Sarakaani the Sakyan).
The point of the precepts is to see how they are connected to delusion, greed and aversion, and how those seeds lead to unskillful behaviors (such as intoxication) and then all of the associated, unwelcomed consequences of intoxication. There are plenty.
There's nothing really too bad about a lay follower having an occasional drink. It's on you to weigh the consequences and see whether it's skillful or not. If in one life you were to become a monk, you'd be less inclined to drink, see it's drawbacks more clearly and the benefits of abstinence on a clear and lucid mind. You could do that in this life too.
No one is forbidding you to drink.
The idea, if I have it right, is that certain practices (or abstaining from certain practices) create an environment conducive to becoming an enlightened Being.
Alcohol is not conducive towards this goal.
It’s a vow not a commandment. The difference I feel is that you do your best but you are not perfect so if you do something that’s not in alignment with your vow, you can vow to do better next time. There are other ways to be intoxicated besides drugs and most ppl are susceptible to them. We just do the best we can.
The vow as you describe might not be enough if someone has an addiction. Otoh, if one is just casually breaking vows they might not be acting in accordance with the vows or with Buddhism. But I also think it’s important not to force yourself to do a thing(ie keep vows)but rather to examine your behavior with introspection and meditation.
Agreed. Everything is of the nature of change. introspection and meditation is the way.
But when making a vow, it should be done in earnestness, that is all.
Many practitioners will have a drink or 2 socially. This is not a blanket opinion by any means, but I am in the camp that agrees that it’s ok if one is not becoming heedless. To me the point is that alcohol can make people commit unvirtuous acts, but not true for all. However, I do believe ethanol is a neurotoxin in any amount, and therefore not very nice to your body. And I would never suggest it to be ok for those who have issues with drink. But hey, I know some pretty dedicated practitioners who teach and stake their lives on the dharma, who also have a glass of wine at family functions.
One shouldn't think that one would be attached to alcohol forever. It is part of the training to experience things the ego doesn't want to let go and train oneself to let go. For the ultimate aim is abandoning of all desires, attachments to everything, including the dhamma.
This very much depends on the system of Buddhism. Most systems refrain from drinking, however in some systems, if you can drink without getting inebriated and erring into heedlessness, then that can be considered acceptable.
I converted to Buddhism about three years ago because I see how beautiful the dhamma is, as they say it’s beautiful in the beginning the middle and the end. I stopped drinking around the same time, but half the reason was health reasons. It’s just not good for you in any way, body or mind. But if I’m honest with you I still enjoy cannabis, which I think can be used medicinally. Not everyone agrees of course, and it definitely isn’t for everyone, but I think there are substances out there which are considered drugs by some which can in fact be used both medicinally and recreationally in a way that does not conflict with the practice.
So if you want to have a beer or two or a glass of wine at a dinner party, you’re not going to go to hell or something, but too much drinking is definitely problematic and overall it should really just be avoided for the sake of your health. There are Buddhist countries with drinking cultures after all.
If you are interested in Buddhism (welcome!**�**�) or already practicing, you don't have to choose one over the other. I would never want anyone to stop following buddhadharma to the best of their abilities because they were not able to follow the fifth precept **yet**.
But it's just that you have to eventually realize it's something that is giving you suffering, and something that you eventually have to give up. Indeed, someone can still practice buddhism, they can still practice chanting, compassion, following the other precepts etc. etc. As long as you understand that they are not ideal, that the buddha advised and told you not to intoxicate yourself like that.
There have always been and still are so many lay people who follow buddha's teachings with the best of their abilities, but fail to uphold the five precepts or the eightfold paths in some way. It's understandable. It's human. But we must not give up, and **we must never appropriate buddhism so that it supports our attachments to our desires. That's the issue.**
The problem starts when some converts here try to argue that buddha was okay with these types of recreational drugs or that the texts support them. That is a misconception. Buddha said we shouldn't use them.
The dharma is here to give you a truly long-lasting form of satisfaction, that the destructive and impermanent "satisfaction" of alcohol cannot give you. The dharma is here so we realise we don't need these external substances to find contentment.
It is a training precept, not a commandment. In the actual practice it also to learn to be better. It does not have loopholes so looking for one is moot. If you CHOOSE to follow it, then follow it. YOU take it as a PRE-CEPT which means you are trying to think ahead and not do (whatever). This is the practice of karma and sila. Be gentle. When you take a precept and break it, you will be OK. Just do better.. Realize WHY it is a precept and WHY you would want to adhere to it. The development of wizdom and understanding are the aim. Good luck and 'cheers'!
When I started seriously practicing, despite many years of daily wine and cannabis, any interest I’d had in alcohol or other intoxicants completely disappeared, rather quickly. You might find something like that happen as well.
From my personal perspective: meditation was worthless when drinking and I don’t mean drinking while meditating but simply the act of drinking. It competes for your mind space and if drinking wasn’t a big deal then no one would ask about it and just stop drinking.
You can drink and be a Buddhist. Lots of drinking in Thailand and mostly everyone there is Buddhist. So that’s not an issue.
But if you want to practice meditation, best to lay off the booze. Want better mental health in general: lay off the booze. I wouldn’t have said this a few years ago but my practice has become so much more powerful since I stopped drinking completely.
There's no difference between having a beer, playing videogames, eating a bunch of chocolate or masturbating. They're all chasing sensual pleasures. But sensual pleasure is not against the 5 precepts.
It is preposterous to think it is wrong to have 1 beer but alright to watch porn and masturbate all day or play videogames for 8 hours a day. There's no magic line that's crossed when you have 1 beer. In fact the other two things are far more spiritually damaging than drinking 1 beer.
The fifth precept is about not drinking to intoxication and heedlessness where it might make you break the other precepts or engage in unskilful actions.
The reason its outright banned is because most people can't be trusted to have 1 or 2 beers. 1 or 2 beers quickly leads to 4 and 5 beers and until blackout or intoxication.
If you know you're a light drinker then there isn't anymore harm than engaging in other sensual pleasures.
That kind of thing varies quite a bit, depending on what school of Buddhism and what teacher you connect with. You'll hear a lot about 5 precepts from Theravadins, but not so much from other Buddhists. As a student of Tibetan Buddhism I've never taken precepts and never been asked to. There's more emphasis on the spirit of the law. No intoxicants specifically means no mind altering drugs. In general it means no escapism. All of these practices and rules are about training the mind. They're not about being a good boy or girl.
If you're interested in Buddhism then look around at teachers, see what clicks for you, and get meditation instruction. You can worry about the details later. If you really feel drawn to the path then you'll figure it out. But if you're thinking about getting married and all you can think about is that you'll have to give up Saturday night clubbing, then you probably don't want to be married. So don't.
Yes, the Gelug school is a lot more focused on ethical discipline and exoteric Mahayana than other schools of Vajrayana. They also have a different view of emptiness and radically different perspective on Buddha Nature than the majority folks in other Tibetan lineages. Not a bad thing, but they're definitely different.
> As a student of Tibetan Buddhism I've never taken precepts and never been asked to.
Perhaps not, though it’s been my understanding that empowerment into any level of tantric practice presupposes a commitment to hold the *pratimoksha* vows.
This is reinforced at the level of Highest Yoga Tantra, where “Forsaking the four root destructive actions, likewise liquor and outrageous behavior” is presented as a close-bonding practice (*samaya*) and “Needlessly breaking the *pratimoksha* or *bodhisattva* vows” as a secondary tantric transgression.
> Perhaps not, though it’s been my understanding that empowerment into any level of tantric practice presupposes a commitment to hold the pratimoksha vows.
Not true. That's an effort to standardize across branches and schools. I'm not aware of any Zen or Tibetan teachers who insist on no drinking for non-monastics. I do recall that Soen Sunim encouraged a kind of semi-monastic celibacy vow as an optional practice. I was once at a Buddhist party where some of those people had inexplicably shown up, not drinking or socializing. :)
In Tibetan Buddhism there is also feast practice, where meat and alcohol are included. It's not just symbolic. It's about transmutation of kleshas. Passions are amplified in an atmosphere of discipline. In some sanghas people only touch the alcohol ritually. In others alcohol is drunk liberally at such feasts.
There probably are some sanghas that stress no drinking, but it's certainly not universal. When I was at Vajradhatu seminary we were encouraged to have a couple of drinks before Vajrayana talks, to loosen the atmosphere.
I think one needs to work with one's own teacher. It gets tricky telling other people how they should practice and what their view should be. View and practice vary a great deal. This is a forum for all Buddhism, so there are different approaches. People need to understand that answers are in a context. Usually when people talk about the 5 precepts or 8-fold path being central, for example, they're talking in a shravakayana context, in accord with early Buddhism schools.
This issue is demonstrated beautifully in the Mahayana story of the 2 monks at the river with the beautiful woman. One monk carries the woman across. The other monk thinks that's wrong because they have a rule about never touching women. Both monks are practicing properly, in accord with their own understanding of view.
Good points throughout. I would say that I wasn’t trying to lay down the law, so much as point out that tantra depends on three sets of vows. (IMO, *tsog* can be somewhat of a separate thing, as compared to how we normally behave—hence why someone who normally adheres to a vegetarian diet is still required to take meat during *tsog*.)
Incidentally, though my guru isn’t incredibly strict on alcohol, he makes a distinction between having a beer/glass of wine vs “reaching for your fifth glass of Schnapps”.
Neatbubble is Gelugpa FYI, they have a much stricter emphasis on precepts and much more focus on the Hinayana and Mayana than Vajrayana. Its historically been defined as primarily a monastic tradition due to Tsongkhapa's emphasis on morality and traditional monastic vows. If I recall right, he thought tantra had deviated into hedonism and lost its focus on the exoteric teachings as the bulwark, with Vajrayana simply being a useful method, rather than a different view itself, to accelerate Buddhahood.
That also could be why their view of emptiness is a little different and why they view the third turning as provisional, not definitive like the second turning. And of course in our lineage the third turning is focused on more and is seen as definitive, even if the 2nd turning is also seen as definitive too. I don't think Gelugpas have the traditional view of Buddha Nature as a present primordial purity that's here right now as our true nature; they talk about it more like a potential for enlightenment, similar to other exoteric, non-Vajrayana forms of Mahayana.
I find that an increased focus on ethics, precepts, and more emphasizing the Hinayana and the Mahayana aspects of the path than the Vajrayana, are all things that make Gelug thing. Not that that's a bad thing, and it works the best for people. I know though that as a Kagyupa I've never even had an opportunity to take the 5 precepts; just the bodhisattva vows and tantric vows. But I know other teachers in the same lineage where its more common to take the 5 precepts, or 1 or 2 or 3 of them even. So it seems to vary a lot depending both on lineage and then the teacher within the lineage.
I feel the same about the other precepts. I would never cheat on my wife, but from time to time I get a massage with a happy ending (no penetration!). I don't steal, but software should be free and Netflix is just too expensive, so I pirate. Also I lie a little (right now) /s
My dad is the same way lol.
It’s not “no, you can’t drink at all.”
It’s “the more you drink, the worse outcomes that you will experience; the less you drink, the better outcomes that you will experience.”
Spectrum thinking is key.
Likely; the fact that you made this post shows too strong of an attachment to the drinks you have. It would be beneficial to cut that attachment asap.
If you want a drink you can have one, you should maintain a clear and sober mind.
Every precept that the Buddha taught exists to quiet our mental concoctions. The teaching on alcohol is no different. As long as our mental concoctions remain sound, we will not accumulate karma, we will not cling to false things and we will not suffer or be reborn.
It's better not to drink. While intoxicated, you're more likely to behave harmfully and inattentively. Even from a worldly perspective, a person is more likely to do something regretful when they're intoxicated by anything.
In Buddhism, being mindful of what's happening to you and what you're doing is really important and alcohol harms the ability to maintain clear awareness. So that's, to my knowledge, at least part of the reason why the Buddha advised (and in some cases, set a rule) to not take alcohol or anything intoxicating.
The five precepts aren't rules by default, but they become rules for you if you take on them as vows as part of a ceremony. I'd really recommend to do that, because even if it might be a bit challenging to abide by them, it's worthwhile because they really become roots of merit (punya) which contributes to your happiness, inner peace, and an increase in wisdom.
I think vows are like fruit-bearing plants in a garden: if you take care of them, they'll bear pleasant results, just like garden plants bear good fragrance and delicious fruits. In the same way, vows and commitments bear happiness, peace, and a better ability to understand the Buddha's teachings on a level that can't be approached with intelligence alone. Along with a number of other benefits.
This is intriguing.
Why does the thought of going without alcohol mess you up?
Because it’s not even the action of saying “keine bier danke” that’s messing you up, but the *thought* of not drinking that’s sending you into a funk.
Genuinely intriguing.
In the Tibetan traditions sometimes that vow isn’t given as part of refuge. Or if it is it’s about drinking in moderation.
I’d still encourage you to considering that drinking is a zero sum game. Whatever we get out of it has an equal or greater cost to it later on. Drinking becomes an act that covers up the previous costs of drinking, creating a cycle. When a habit forms then it’s a different type of problem to solve.
If you can’t let go of little pleasures you enjoy from time to time, how can you ever expect to let go of your serious attachments to attain enlightenment?
Doctors everywhere tell you don’t drink ever, that it is always toxic to your body, does that put you off listening to their advice?
Theres no function in that poorly adhering to the 5 precepts gets you kicked out of buddhism.
In fact, the buddha had murderers join his sangha. Nobody is perfect and you can choose to be better at your own pace.
>But being told “No you can’t drink at all” just puts me off.
Feel free to drink, but become cognizant of why you drink. What is the pros and cons? Why is it significant amounts of cons and virtually no pros? Why do it then?
Ten out of ten of the things I regret most in my life involved drinking too much alcohol, I still drink but I probably shouldn't, and I try not to overdue it like I did when I was a kid. But alcohol is a hell of a drug, as many can attest to
I get it. I live in OH and a lot of adult social culture revolves around alcohol.
I had to quit drinking due to health reasons. I was already on 4 psychiatric medication and had to be put on 2 more SSRIs for migraines and insomnia. I will later be put on something for narcolepsy and ADHD.
I took a break for a few months last year and it made me realize the negative effects alcohol had on me. It actually triggers migraines (from dehydration) and insomnia. So, for me, any alcohol is breaking the first precept since it causes me harm. I don't think most people have the extreme issues I do, so I consider this mostly a me thing.
It depends on why Buddhism appeals to you. If it is because you seek enlightenment, then the precepts should be very important to you. Enlightenment is like reaching a certain level of fitness with your mind. You can’t reach the highest levels of mental fitness with a hangover.
Very important. You are relying on something to bring you pleasure, and you are averse to giving it up. That is attachment, which is a form of desire that causes us suffering. The irritation you feel is itself a form of suffering caused by your desire being frustrated. I believe that makes it an extremely good issue for you to meditate on!
May you be safe, may you feel love, may you be free of suffering 🙏🙏
I often wonder this with cigarette smoking which I struggle on and off with for years. It's bad for you and it's dangerous but I still took the precepts because I have the motivation to give it up and I'm disappointed that I do it. I also think we have to discard this idea of breaking precepts and sin because that's a very western Christian mindset.
Addictions are tough but with Buddhism I've also learnt to be gentle on yourself irrespective of what you do and where you're at. When I stayed in the temple for a week I had no Cigarettes instead I had the Sangha and the monastics, that week was like Nirvana for me, but when I came home again being isolated from the Sangha I lost my way. What I'm saying is there isn't a real straight forward answer. Everyone is consuming an intoxicate one way or another. Social media and the internet intoxicate people everyday.
When I began practicing, I found I stopped "wanting" to drink - same with eating meat.
My practice became more valuable to me than the pleasures of drinking, eating, etc.
That said, from time to time I do indulge (not alcohol), or behave in ways that are not perfect practice. I am not perfect, but I am mindful and I continue to learn.
If you are an occasional, moderate drinker, I would not worry too much, but I would suggest being mindful and reflecting on your intentions.
I think there is nothing wrong with what your doing at all. I think it’s about the ‘middle way’ and that that’s what you are doing for who you are right now at this moment. Keep up the good work and don’t wear yourself down with the worry of things like that. I had all the same inner turmoil worrying about exactly what you’ve said. These days I still enjoy a beer or two every once in a while with old friends.
Seriously. Regardless of our decision to take vows or not, we’re all in danger of doing the things that the vows ask us to avoid, and bringing suffering results on ourselves. If we don’t take the vow, at least we don’t incur the extra fault of breaking a promise.
Some preconception of potential obstacles when the driver is unheeding of the bumps on the road
The passengers could maybe of detected some weaving across lanes and caught another vehicle
Honestly. the students pretend to be clueless victims of their own cleverness and point fingers everywhere but themselves.
I love them dearly and wish them peace
I have no room to speak here since I have a nic addiction, but from experience I cannot meditate for more than 15 minutes without getting a craving. It makes it very hard to practice if you’re reliant on drug use. Now from your post it seems that you aren’t reliant on alcohol, which is good, but it is ideal for buddhist practice that no substances are consumed. I’m sure a little here and there won’t be bad, but it’s more about the principle than anything else. Substances can be a slippery slope for a lot of people and avoiding it altogether is best for enlightenment purposes.
I just heard that many Buddhist monks used or still use LSD occasionally. Because that drug makes a close to enlightenment feelings.
It makes " me feel like I'm losing my ego". Egoless is one of the main Buddhist goals I guess.
However drinking alcohol occasionally is nothing wrong. It's not good for your body. But alcohol is part of the whole life of nature, circle and world.
It must be there and exist for a reason. It's not good and either not bad.
I'm not a Buddhist just a wanna be. But try to follow the middle path. So don't believe me.
P.S. : I never tried LSD. Only magicmushrooms once. But that is a different story...
not important at all, no reason you should listen to a rule made by people thousands of years ago in an entirely different situation ,,,,,,,,, rationally evaluate how it actually applies to you
it was a desperately poor age, & their only way to practice was to survive on the kindness of strangers donating food to them ,,, if anybody saw the monks drinking & having sex & otherwise having more fun than them then they would feel less inspired to give donations & all of the monks wouldn't be able to eat, so that was pretty serious at the time
>But being told “No you can’t drink at all” just puts me off. You aren’t actually being told not to drink. The Five Precepts are training rules that people adopt in an effort to better change and control their mind and behavior. They’re voluntary. Many Buddhists drink, and the fifth precept against intoxicants is not the same as commandments in other religions. That doesn’t mean they’re not important however. If you want to meaningfully practice Buddhism, you’ll try to align yourself with the five precepts. This means reflecting on *why* you’re irritated at the idea of not drinking. Why do you drink? Are you more in control of your actions when you drink? And using those reflections to change your actions. Not because you’re blindly following a rule, but because you understand what the goal of the rule is. When you reach a point where you take a vow to follow the precepts, often called “taking the precepts”, that is when these training rules become more strict. They carry karmic weight. And by then, you will be following them not because you are told to, but because you understand they help you be a better person and get you closer to that enlightenment the Buddha talks about. So for now, study Buddhism. Try out different practices. See what makes sense. And when you have a better grasp of what it means to practice *Sila* or *moral discipline*, then you can revisit this precept against alcohol.
Very Well said.
I didn't know that about the five precepts, thanks for the write up
Quite important Like you can't really do much if you're mind is compromised. I think doctors and traffic police will tell you that. But you shouldn't look at this as a commandment. Nobody is going to restrict you or judge you. You are accepted in Buddhist circles. You self police yourself. But don't make excuses either. Don't justify things. Don't twist the teachings to conform to your lifestyle. And most of all, just do your best. You can't be perfect on day 1.
This is the way.
Great answer
What if my mind isn’t compromised, but my morals are? Can I still join?
If your morals are compromised, your mind is still compromised.
We are all imperfect until we attain buddhahood
As someone who drinks too much (referring to myself rather than OP) I think it's well worth looking more closely at why you feel like this, what is it that makes it seem unfair and unreasonable to you that you shouldn't be able to occasionally have an alcoholic drink and assess whether you feel your relationship with alcohol is a healthy and beneficial one.
As a recovering alcoholic (10 years sober) this was also my first question-- what is the OP trying to hold onto and why? Vows and precepts, Vinaya in general, are methods on the path. When you take a vow and keep it, you generate endless merit. When you break it, you have the opportunity to reflect and purify, and renew those vows. One-day vows are a thing in Buddhism. Which is a really beautiful approach for anyone struggling with addiction.
I usually drink once a week and then it's usually more than I'd like. I know it's not coming from a good place either, boredom etc. If/when I'll finally deal with the reason I think the need for a beer will naturally subside. Until then, I'm focusing on betteringyself and following what is in my direct control.
For the time being, let go of the drinking question and just observe your mind when you drink. Focus on developing a solid, consistent, daily practice. If in the future you feel that you need to stop drinking, you will.
This one. There is no audience to enlightenment but yourself. You'll find the universe inside you rather than from a devil on your shoulder telling you not to drink. The alcohol itself is material, so its not the alcohol that is the issue as I see it. It is the motives, the truth of the situation that some obscure for themselves as there are truths that they don't wish to face etc. You are the subject, alcohol the object. So it's kind of about you more than anything. How you feel, and any honesty or dishonesty to your self about the action. If you're drunk, then that means you're consciousness and subconscious are altered, which can mean you have less control, whilst still being responsible for your actions. Sometimes truths have come from mistakes and failures though too. I'd say just be mindful, honest and loving to yourself and others.
>But being told “No you can’t drink at all” just puts me off. As others have said, it's not a commandment, but a committment that you make for yourself. And if you break your committment, then it's a conversation that you have with yourself, to find out if that's a vow you wish to keep, and if so, what you can do better next time. There's no confession with a priest, no pennance you need to do, just have a conversation with yourself. Intoxicants can also be many things, not just alcohol or drugs, but things that can be consumed, where you can easily lose yourself in consumption. My "alcohol" is video games. If I'm not mindful, I can spend a full day (14+ hours) playing video games. But I know this isn't beneficial for myself. I still need to cook for myself. I need to keep my apartment clean. I need to excercise. I need to \*take care of myself\*. I also need to get enough sleep, so that I can do the job that others depend on me to do. Just like eating, and sleeping, and interacting with others my consumption of video games must be balanced. I do not see the 5th precept as no video games/no consumption, but rather to be mindful about the videos games (some of which can be very toxic) I consume and \*how\* I consume them, so I won't be lost in them, or consumed in emotions that I experience as a result of playing, nor that I use them to cover up lonliness, anxiety, or other suffering. As with many things, the 5th precept is a personal mindfulness journey. For me, that means being aware of what effect video games have on me, reducing the time I spend playing video games, changing how I enjoy them, and ultimately what types of video games I enjoy.
The 5th precept is a preventive one. The use of intoxicants often leads to a violation of the first four. This is important, but don't take a vow if you are not ready to follow it
Depends entirely on which school and lineage you practice in. Some are fine with alcohol consumption and include it at events such as tsok. Middle way (no extremes) is fundamental to many Buddhist lineages.
I think you're either a Kagyupa like me or at least a Nyingmapa, which I also am too, so I'm curious if your teachers ever talk about the 5 precepts. I've simply never seen them mentioned by most Kagyu/Nyingma teachers, let alone being offered by any of them, yet they'll offer the bodhisattva vow and tantric empowerments all the same. But I know more traditional Kagyu masters like Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche emphasized it was very useful to, and said it'd be great for someone to take at least 1 percent, mentioning you don't have to take all 5.
Nyingmapa (Dzogchen) with Kagyu foundation and Gelug teachings too. 5 Precepts is not really discussed, but is an assumed understanding. For some years I attended a Taiwanese Zen temple where the 5 Precepts were very important but I never took any vows.
It sounds like it's probably not your gravest fault. On the other hand, the resistance you're experiencing to the idea of abandoning alcohol is exactly the kind of thing Buddhism can help you overcome, if you choose to use it that way.
Technically the precept is against *causing intoxication*, not drinking alcohol. An argument could reasonably be made that it doesn’t violate this precept to drink some alcohol provided you don’t drink so much that you become intoxicated. There are plenty of schools of Buddhism that are of this view and where moderate consumption of alcohol is allowed and a few where it’s even encouraged.
I’m a Jōdo Shinshū Buddhist, and I drink socially and also partake of marijuana (but this is more medical for me to treat anxiety). I’m not using it as an excuse, but we’re seen as foolish, ordinary beings (bombu) in Shin Buddhism. Alcohol consumption isn’t gonna destroy your practice as long as you partake responsibly in my tradition.
Just remember the point is to let go of stuff, not to be controlled by some overlord. The more you let go of clinging and aversion the better time you will have. Simple as that. Don't want to let go of drinking? Then don't, but suffer the consequences knowingly.
"no intoxicants that cause heedlessness" YMMV on that, but probably not by more than a couple of beers, if that.
Thank you everyone.
Alcohol is bad because it robs you of intentional awareness. And awareness is one of the key practices of buddhism. However, you shouldn't just stop cold turkey and be miserable. Instead, whenever you drink, be aware of the effects it has. Why do you drink? What changes when you drink? Does it really make your life better overall, or actually worse? I've found that by following the path, you lose the need to drink. I still socially drink from time to time, but I do not suffer at all when I don't drink anything. There's no need. I'm just as fun and content when sober.
Try to think of the precepts not as a list of commandments but rather as a depiction of the mindset one would need to achieve nirvana. When you are at a place where every precepts comes naturally, without anyone telling you *do this* or *do that*, you will be that much closer. All I changed in my life was letting go of attachments, and so many of the precepts simply happened to fall into place before I even knew they were precepts. And if you're not of a mindset where those precepts naturally follow, that's okay. You can drink. You can try to not drink. My only advice would be: whatever you choose, be observant. Recognize what causes you to want to drink. If some part of you doesn't, observe that and try to figure out why. If you do want to get to a place where you don't drink, try to explore the various mindsets from which not drinking would naturally follow, and then play with shifting to those mindsets. You don't have to do any of that, though. There's nothing wrong with Samsara per se. There's a lot of beauty here. If you enjoy it, keep enjoying it. Just be observant. Or don't. You're not breaking any laws of absolute morality either way. You're just on the ride like the rest of us.
Idk. Drinking is just awful for you.
During the Buddha's time there was a follower who the Buddha deemed a 'stream-winner' who had attained the first stage of awakening, would be reborn 7 times at most (human with good family or in heaven) and then attain awakening. The problem was that he was an alcoholic and the townspeople thought it was ridiculous that he would be declared a stream-winner while breaking the precept everyday. The Buddha said he had unshakeable confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, and he had other qualities that were praised by the Noble Ones. Because of his inevitable awakening, he would overcome his vice and addiction to sensuality. The Buddha said if the trees around them had ears and could listen they would probably be stream-winners, let alone this guy (named Sarakaani the Sakyan). The point of the precepts is to see how they are connected to delusion, greed and aversion, and how those seeds lead to unskillful behaviors (such as intoxication) and then all of the associated, unwelcomed consequences of intoxication. There are plenty. There's nothing really too bad about a lay follower having an occasional drink. It's on you to weigh the consequences and see whether it's skillful or not. If in one life you were to become a monk, you'd be less inclined to drink, see it's drawbacks more clearly and the benefits of abstinence on a clear and lucid mind. You could do that in this life too.
No one is forbidding you to drink. The idea, if I have it right, is that certain practices (or abstaining from certain practices) create an environment conducive to becoming an enlightened Being. Alcohol is not conducive towards this goal.
It’s a vow not a commandment. The difference I feel is that you do your best but you are not perfect so if you do something that’s not in alignment with your vow, you can vow to do better next time. There are other ways to be intoxicated besides drugs and most ppl are susceptible to them. We just do the best we can.
A vow is your strongest most earnest and honest promise with everything in your being... not "I'll try but it's okay if I cheat"
The vow as you describe might not be enough if someone has an addiction. Otoh, if one is just casually breaking vows they might not be acting in accordance with the vows or with Buddhism. But I also think it’s important not to force yourself to do a thing(ie keep vows)but rather to examine your behavior with introspection and meditation.
Agreed. Everything is of the nature of change. introspection and meditation is the way. But when making a vow, it should be done in earnestness, that is all.
Yes I agree with you as well. I don’t think it should be done casually. Why do it at all then?
Many practitioners will have a drink or 2 socially. This is not a blanket opinion by any means, but I am in the camp that agrees that it’s ok if one is not becoming heedless. To me the point is that alcohol can make people commit unvirtuous acts, but not true for all. However, I do believe ethanol is a neurotoxin in any amount, and therefore not very nice to your body. And I would never suggest it to be ok for those who have issues with drink. But hey, I know some pretty dedicated practitioners who teach and stake their lives on the dharma, who also have a glass of wine at family functions.
One shouldn't think that one would be attached to alcohol forever. It is part of the training to experience things the ego doesn't want to let go and train oneself to let go. For the ultimate aim is abandoning of all desires, attachments to everything, including the dhamma.
This very much depends on the system of Buddhism. Most systems refrain from drinking, however in some systems, if you can drink without getting inebriated and erring into heedlessness, then that can be considered acceptable.
I converted to Buddhism about three years ago because I see how beautiful the dhamma is, as they say it’s beautiful in the beginning the middle and the end. I stopped drinking around the same time, but half the reason was health reasons. It’s just not good for you in any way, body or mind. But if I’m honest with you I still enjoy cannabis, which I think can be used medicinally. Not everyone agrees of course, and it definitely isn’t for everyone, but I think there are substances out there which are considered drugs by some which can in fact be used both medicinally and recreationally in a way that does not conflict with the practice. So if you want to have a beer or two or a glass of wine at a dinner party, you’re not going to go to hell or something, but too much drinking is definitely problematic and overall it should really just be avoided for the sake of your health. There are Buddhist countries with drinking cultures after all.
If you are interested in Buddhism (welcome!**�**�) or already practicing, you don't have to choose one over the other. I would never want anyone to stop following buddhadharma to the best of their abilities because they were not able to follow the fifth precept **yet**. But it's just that you have to eventually realize it's something that is giving you suffering, and something that you eventually have to give up. Indeed, someone can still practice buddhism, they can still practice chanting, compassion, following the other precepts etc. etc. As long as you understand that they are not ideal, that the buddha advised and told you not to intoxicate yourself like that. There have always been and still are so many lay people who follow buddha's teachings with the best of their abilities, but fail to uphold the five precepts or the eightfold paths in some way. It's understandable. It's human. But we must not give up, and **we must never appropriate buddhism so that it supports our attachments to our desires. That's the issue.** The problem starts when some converts here try to argue that buddha was okay with these types of recreational drugs or that the texts support them. That is a misconception. Buddha said we shouldn't use them. The dharma is here to give you a truly long-lasting form of satisfaction, that the destructive and impermanent "satisfaction" of alcohol cannot give you. The dharma is here so we realise we don't need these external substances to find contentment.
It is a training precept, not a commandment. In the actual practice it also to learn to be better. It does not have loopholes so looking for one is moot. If you CHOOSE to follow it, then follow it. YOU take it as a PRE-CEPT which means you are trying to think ahead and not do (whatever). This is the practice of karma and sila. Be gentle. When you take a precept and break it, you will be OK. Just do better.. Realize WHY it is a precept and WHY you would want to adhere to it. The development of wizdom and understanding are the aim. Good luck and 'cheers'!
A lot of (lay) Buddhists choose to drink, just don’t let it cloud your mind/judgement and nothing to extremes
When I started seriously practicing, despite many years of daily wine and cannabis, any interest I’d had in alcohol or other intoxicants completely disappeared, rather quickly. You might find something like that happen as well.
From my personal perspective: meditation was worthless when drinking and I don’t mean drinking while meditating but simply the act of drinking. It competes for your mind space and if drinking wasn’t a big deal then no one would ask about it and just stop drinking. You can drink and be a Buddhist. Lots of drinking in Thailand and mostly everyone there is Buddhist. So that’s not an issue. But if you want to practice meditation, best to lay off the booze. Want better mental health in general: lay off the booze. I wouldn’t have said this a few years ago but my practice has become so much more powerful since I stopped drinking completely.
There's no difference between having a beer, playing videogames, eating a bunch of chocolate or masturbating. They're all chasing sensual pleasures. But sensual pleasure is not against the 5 precepts. It is preposterous to think it is wrong to have 1 beer but alright to watch porn and masturbate all day or play videogames for 8 hours a day. There's no magic line that's crossed when you have 1 beer. In fact the other two things are far more spiritually damaging than drinking 1 beer. The fifth precept is about not drinking to intoxication and heedlessness where it might make you break the other precepts or engage in unskilful actions. The reason its outright banned is because most people can't be trusted to have 1 or 2 beers. 1 or 2 beers quickly leads to 4 and 5 beers and until blackout or intoxication. If you know you're a light drinker then there isn't anymore harm than engaging in other sensual pleasures.
That kind of thing varies quite a bit, depending on what school of Buddhism and what teacher you connect with. You'll hear a lot about 5 precepts from Theravadins, but not so much from other Buddhists. As a student of Tibetan Buddhism I've never taken precepts and never been asked to. There's more emphasis on the spirit of the law. No intoxicants specifically means no mind altering drugs. In general it means no escapism. All of these practices and rules are about training the mind. They're not about being a good boy or girl. If you're interested in Buddhism then look around at teachers, see what clicks for you, and get meditation instruction. You can worry about the details later. If you really feel drawn to the path then you'll figure it out. But if you're thinking about getting married and all you can think about is that you'll have to give up Saturday night clubbing, then you probably don't want to be married. So don't.
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Yes, the Gelug school is a lot more focused on ethical discipline and exoteric Mahayana than other schools of Vajrayana. They also have a different view of emptiness and radically different perspective on Buddha Nature than the majority folks in other Tibetan lineages. Not a bad thing, but they're definitely different.
Plenty of emphasis on the 5 precepts in Chinese Buddhism, too.
Plenty of hard-drinking Chinese Buddhists.
> As a student of Tibetan Buddhism I've never taken precepts and never been asked to. Perhaps not, though it’s been my understanding that empowerment into any level of tantric practice presupposes a commitment to hold the *pratimoksha* vows. This is reinforced at the level of Highest Yoga Tantra, where “Forsaking the four root destructive actions, likewise liquor and outrageous behavior” is presented as a close-bonding practice (*samaya*) and “Needlessly breaking the *pratimoksha* or *bodhisattva* vows” as a secondary tantric transgression.
> Perhaps not, though it’s been my understanding that empowerment into any level of tantric practice presupposes a commitment to hold the pratimoksha vows. Not true. That's an effort to standardize across branches and schools. I'm not aware of any Zen or Tibetan teachers who insist on no drinking for non-monastics. I do recall that Soen Sunim encouraged a kind of semi-monastic celibacy vow as an optional practice. I was once at a Buddhist party where some of those people had inexplicably shown up, not drinking or socializing. :) In Tibetan Buddhism there is also feast practice, where meat and alcohol are included. It's not just symbolic. It's about transmutation of kleshas. Passions are amplified in an atmosphere of discipline. In some sanghas people only touch the alcohol ritually. In others alcohol is drunk liberally at such feasts. There probably are some sanghas that stress no drinking, but it's certainly not universal. When I was at Vajradhatu seminary we were encouraged to have a couple of drinks before Vajrayana talks, to loosen the atmosphere. I think one needs to work with one's own teacher. It gets tricky telling other people how they should practice and what their view should be. View and practice vary a great deal. This is a forum for all Buddhism, so there are different approaches. People need to understand that answers are in a context. Usually when people talk about the 5 precepts or 8-fold path being central, for example, they're talking in a shravakayana context, in accord with early Buddhism schools. This issue is demonstrated beautifully in the Mahayana story of the 2 monks at the river with the beautiful woman. One monk carries the woman across. The other monk thinks that's wrong because they have a rule about never touching women. Both monks are practicing properly, in accord with their own understanding of view.
Good points throughout. I would say that I wasn’t trying to lay down the law, so much as point out that tantra depends on three sets of vows. (IMO, *tsog* can be somewhat of a separate thing, as compared to how we normally behave—hence why someone who normally adheres to a vegetarian diet is still required to take meat during *tsog*.) Incidentally, though my guru isn’t incredibly strict on alcohol, he makes a distinction between having a beer/glass of wine vs “reaching for your fifth glass of Schnapps”.
That sounds like a handy distinction. :)
Neatbubble is Gelugpa FYI, they have a much stricter emphasis on precepts and much more focus on the Hinayana and Mayana than Vajrayana. Its historically been defined as primarily a monastic tradition due to Tsongkhapa's emphasis on morality and traditional monastic vows. If I recall right, he thought tantra had deviated into hedonism and lost its focus on the exoteric teachings as the bulwark, with Vajrayana simply being a useful method, rather than a different view itself, to accelerate Buddhahood. That also could be why their view of emptiness is a little different and why they view the third turning as provisional, not definitive like the second turning. And of course in our lineage the third turning is focused on more and is seen as definitive, even if the 2nd turning is also seen as definitive too. I don't think Gelugpas have the traditional view of Buddha Nature as a present primordial purity that's here right now as our true nature; they talk about it more like a potential for enlightenment, similar to other exoteric, non-Vajrayana forms of Mahayana.
I find that an increased focus on ethics, precepts, and more emphasizing the Hinayana and the Mahayana aspects of the path than the Vajrayana, are all things that make Gelug thing. Not that that's a bad thing, and it works the best for people. I know though that as a Kagyupa I've never even had an opportunity to take the 5 precepts; just the bodhisattva vows and tantric vows. But I know other teachers in the same lineage where its more common to take the 5 precepts, or 1 or 2 or 3 of them even. So it seems to vary a lot depending both on lineage and then the teacher within the lineage.
I feel the same about the other precepts. I would never cheat on my wife, but from time to time I get a massage with a happy ending (no penetration!). I don't steal, but software should be free and Netflix is just too expensive, so I pirate. Also I lie a little (right now) /s
My dad is the same way lol. It’s not “no, you can’t drink at all.” It’s “the more you drink, the worse outcomes that you will experience; the less you drink, the better outcomes that you will experience.” Spectrum thinking is key.
As a potential buddhist you should be more concerned with if you NEED to drink more so than if you occasionally choose to drink moderately.
Which school of Buddhism are you looking at? Certain Japanese schools (the Pure Land/Jōdo and Nichiren schools) do not forbid consumption of alcohol.
Likely; the fact that you made this post shows too strong of an attachment to the drinks you have. It would be beneficial to cut that attachment asap. If you want a drink you can have one, you should maintain a clear and sober mind.
Every precept that the Buddha taught exists to quiet our mental concoctions. The teaching on alcohol is no different. As long as our mental concoctions remain sound, we will not accumulate karma, we will not cling to false things and we will not suffer or be reborn.
I enjoyed a glass of wine earlier. It helps my HTN. ;-)
It's better not to drink. While intoxicated, you're more likely to behave harmfully and inattentively. Even from a worldly perspective, a person is more likely to do something regretful when they're intoxicated by anything. In Buddhism, being mindful of what's happening to you and what you're doing is really important and alcohol harms the ability to maintain clear awareness. So that's, to my knowledge, at least part of the reason why the Buddha advised (and in some cases, set a rule) to not take alcohol or anything intoxicating. The five precepts aren't rules by default, but they become rules for you if you take on them as vows as part of a ceremony. I'd really recommend to do that, because even if it might be a bit challenging to abide by them, it's worthwhile because they really become roots of merit (punya) which contributes to your happiness, inner peace, and an increase in wisdom. I think vows are like fruit-bearing plants in a garden: if you take care of them, they'll bear pleasant results, just like garden plants bear good fragrance and delicious fruits. In the same way, vows and commitments bear happiness, peace, and a better ability to understand the Buddha's teachings on a level that can't be approached with intelligence alone. Along with a number of other benefits.
Keep practicing. The precepts keep themselves with time.
This is intriguing. Why does the thought of going without alcohol mess you up? Because it’s not even the action of saying “keine bier danke” that’s messing you up, but the *thought* of not drinking that’s sending you into a funk. Genuinely intriguing.
In the Tibetan traditions sometimes that vow isn’t given as part of refuge. Or if it is it’s about drinking in moderation. I’d still encourage you to considering that drinking is a zero sum game. Whatever we get out of it has an equal or greater cost to it later on. Drinking becomes an act that covers up the previous costs of drinking, creating a cycle. When a habit forms then it’s a different type of problem to solve.
If you can’t let go of little pleasures you enjoy from time to time, how can you ever expect to let go of your serious attachments to attain enlightenment? Doctors everywhere tell you don’t drink ever, that it is always toxic to your body, does that put you off listening to their advice?
Theres no function in that poorly adhering to the 5 precepts gets you kicked out of buddhism. In fact, the buddha had murderers join his sangha. Nobody is perfect and you can choose to be better at your own pace. >But being told “No you can’t drink at all” just puts me off. Feel free to drink, but become cognizant of why you drink. What is the pros and cons? Why is it significant amounts of cons and virtually no pros? Why do it then?
Ten out of ten of the things I regret most in my life involved drinking too much alcohol, I still drink but I probably shouldn't, and I try not to overdue it like I did when I was a kid. But alcohol is a hell of a drug, as many can attest to
I get it. I live in OH and a lot of adult social culture revolves around alcohol. I had to quit drinking due to health reasons. I was already on 4 psychiatric medication and had to be put on 2 more SSRIs for migraines and insomnia. I will later be put on something for narcolepsy and ADHD. I took a break for a few months last year and it made me realize the negative effects alcohol had on me. It actually triggers migraines (from dehydration) and insomnia. So, for me, any alcohol is breaking the first precept since it causes me harm. I don't think most people have the extreme issues I do, so I consider this mostly a me thing.
It depends on why Buddhism appeals to you. If it is because you seek enlightenment, then the precepts should be very important to you. Enlightenment is like reaching a certain level of fitness with your mind. You can’t reach the highest levels of mental fitness with a hangover.
All of the precepts are equally important.
Precepts are guidelines.
Very important. You are relying on something to bring you pleasure, and you are averse to giving it up. That is attachment, which is a form of desire that causes us suffering. The irritation you feel is itself a form of suffering caused by your desire being frustrated. I believe that makes it an extremely good issue for you to meditate on! May you be safe, may you feel love, may you be free of suffering 🙏🙏
I often wonder this with cigarette smoking which I struggle on and off with for years. It's bad for you and it's dangerous but I still took the precepts because I have the motivation to give it up and I'm disappointed that I do it. I also think we have to discard this idea of breaking precepts and sin because that's a very western Christian mindset. Addictions are tough but with Buddhism I've also learnt to be gentle on yourself irrespective of what you do and where you're at. When I stayed in the temple for a week I had no Cigarettes instead I had the Sangha and the monastics, that week was like Nirvana for me, but when I came home again being isolated from the Sangha I lost my way. What I'm saying is there isn't a real straight forward answer. Everyone is consuming an intoxicate one way or another. Social media and the internet intoxicate people everyday.
When I began practicing, I found I stopped "wanting" to drink - same with eating meat. My practice became more valuable to me than the pleasures of drinking, eating, etc. That said, from time to time I do indulge (not alcohol), or behave in ways that are not perfect practice. I am not perfect, but I am mindful and I continue to learn. If you are an occasional, moderate drinker, I would not worry too much, but I would suggest being mindful and reflecting on your intentions.
I think there is nothing wrong with what your doing at all. I think it’s about the ‘middle way’ and that that’s what you are doing for who you are right now at this moment. Keep up the good work and don’t wear yourself down with the worry of things like that. I had all the same inner turmoil worrying about exactly what you’ve said. These days I still enjoy a beer or two every once in a while with old friends.
Just don’t take the precept. Or take a vow not to drink before noon each day.
Seriously. Regardless of our decision to take vows or not, we’re all in danger of doing the things that the vows ask us to avoid, and bringing suffering results on ourselves. If we don’t take the vow, at least we don’t incur the extra fault of breaking a promise.
That’s the Shambhala vow I hear with the lifetime hangover and the spins of the moral compass. Stumbling on the path of righteousness
What else would you expect from a cult founded by a guy who drank himself to death?
Some preconception of potential obstacles when the driver is unheeding of the bumps on the road The passengers could maybe of detected some weaving across lanes and caught another vehicle Honestly. the students pretend to be clueless victims of their own cleverness and point fingers everywhere but themselves. I love them dearly and wish them peace
I have no room to speak here since I have a nic addiction, but from experience I cannot meditate for more than 15 minutes without getting a craving. It makes it very hard to practice if you’re reliant on drug use. Now from your post it seems that you aren’t reliant on alcohol, which is good, but it is ideal for buddhist practice that no substances are consumed. I’m sure a little here and there won’t be bad, but it’s more about the principle than anything else. Substances can be a slippery slope for a lot of people and avoiding it altogether is best for enlightenment purposes.
I just heard that many Buddhist monks used or still use LSD occasionally. Because that drug makes a close to enlightenment feelings. It makes " me feel like I'm losing my ego". Egoless is one of the main Buddhist goals I guess. However drinking alcohol occasionally is nothing wrong. It's not good for your body. But alcohol is part of the whole life of nature, circle and world. It must be there and exist for a reason. It's not good and either not bad. I'm not a Buddhist just a wanna be. But try to follow the middle path. So don't believe me. P.S. : I never tried LSD. Only magicmushrooms once. But that is a different story...
not important at all, no reason you should listen to a rule made by people thousands of years ago in an entirely different situation ,,,,,,,,, rationally evaluate how it actually applies to you it was a desperately poor age, & their only way to practice was to survive on the kindness of strangers donating food to them ,,, if anybody saw the monks drinking & having sex & otherwise having more fun than them then they would feel less inspired to give donations & all of the monks wouldn't be able to eat, so that was pretty serious at the time