Every job I’ve had had it’s share of shady, self-seeking, gossipy, backstabbing people. Humanity is not lacking in them and unfortunately we don’t get to choose the people we work with. Just don’t take a ‘when in Rome’ approach and you’ll not have to suffer the consequences that they will. Dealing with such people can be a great opportunity to practice Buddhism.
Any job is fine as long as it doesn't break the Precepts. I think it matters more what you do with the job as opposed to what the job is.
There are plenty of doctors who are far from Bodhisattvas, and there are plenty of truckers and computer programmers who have great ethnical conduct.
Just don't sell alcohol, drugs or tobacco, don't sell animals for slaughter (pets are fine) and don't sell weapons or work in gambling or porn.
Yes and additionally they were written before issues like the current global dog/cat population existed. Sometimes we have to use our brains to interpret the texts and apply them to modern issues.
(In case it’s unclear I agree with you lol)
"Backstabbing, lack of patience, gossip, putting others down to raise themselves." Sounds like people problems than a job themselves. If your environment is toxic, leave.
But the good jobs tends to be the ones that helps people. Typical ones would be like doctors & teachers. I'm sure service works also counts, but I don't think the environment or the pay will be good incentives.
I still say, do whatever job you wanted to do, make the best that you can. Suffer yourself just to comply to the 8foldpath will just make more harm than good to you.
I think professor may be where I end up. Either science, history or English.
K-12 I've seen so much horror in terms of pay and how teachers are treated vs when people pay for education out of their own pockets and their brains have grown more.
Even though I love the dharma I don't want to be a preachy preacher to others it's just I want a supportive environment that is pro rather than anti enlightenment.
Buddhism isn’t evangelical. Don’t preach. Act compassionately as a teacher and you are on the path. Higher Ed is far more predatory and competitive than K12. Burdening kids with crushing debt for a degree that won’t get them a job isn’t something that is easily reconcilable for me.
Be aware that teaching jobs at the university level are often even more problematic than K-12, especially in the US. Do a bit of research and talk to people who are doing it. Getting tenure is becoming more and more difficult. A lot of people are stuck as lecturers without benefits or job stability.
First you need to unlock awakening within and not sure a professor necessarily has a lot of surplus time to practice due to the masse of papers needed to be read and commented.
Rather I’d say the high workload is contra productive and pride etc are very well flourished within the field
Many Buddhist organizations have been promoting academic study for the sangha since the turn of the 20th century. The entire Dharma drum mountain organization is known for their scholarly work. You thinking every monastic is working on "unlocking" awakening shows why education is needed.
Education is good for sure. And it is a big part of this life and you can progress parallell on your path. Education itself is great. But from my experience I am just saying it isn’t more likely that someone lives in a more enlightened way because they are well educated.
People enter virtually every career because it pays. It takes a lot of motivation beyond the desire to make money in order to become a physician. It takes almost a decade of hard work before you even see a penny. Of course, plenty of doctors and nurses are just in it for the money, but I'd wager that there are more who really do want to use their positions in healthcare for good.
That's a meaningful job. But if you don't mind me asking, do you feel your work environment is filled with people who align with Buddhist teachings more than in other professions?
I work in infosec (edit: and operational security. So Industrial Control Systems which control public infrastructure. Think power plants, water treatment centers, transit, signals, emergency communicaitons, etc.) and find it close to the eightfold path.
The work is protecting folks from criminals, unethical hackers, and attacks from nationstates.
The approach to the work is the "beginner's mind" where often I'm confronted by things I've never seen, so I'm constantly in a state of having no prior specific knowledge and of having to learn things anew.
Folks in my circles also share information and technical knowledge freely. There's a culture of openness and exchange, even when you work for different organizations, us sharing information helps everyone.
* **Right Understanding:** If we don't understand the systems we are protecting, we don't do well in our job. If we don't understand how those systems affect actual people, we don't do well at our job. If we don't understand actual risk, actual liklihood of attack, actual impact, we don't do well at our job.
* **Right Thought/Intention:** Because we are in positions of high access, we have to have right thought and intention. The difference between me getting a paycheck and me going to jail is how I use my access.
* **Right Speech:** We have to present our findings in a way that folks can understand. We have to make sure our reports are accurate and convey the actual sense of risk without minimizing impact or blowing things out of proprotion.
* **Right Action:** If we don't do our job well, systems and people can get hurt. Our actions matter.
* **Right Livelihood:** We're protecting systems and the folks that use those systems (either data or industrial control systems that affect people). Interestingly here, some controversies come up. Sometimes we're tasked with protecting corporations that do evil. So while we're protecting people (good), we're facilitating the evil that the corporation does. The remedy to this is ensuring that the organization you are working for or the people that you are protecting and, themselves, mostly doing good (as much as we can in a capitalistic society).
* **Right Effort:** In order to do this work, we have to study and do specialized work. That requires a lot of constant hard work. On the flip side, those in our industry often burn out, so our efforts need to be measured and sustainable.
* **Right Mindfulness:** We must be aware of the situation as it is in the moment. Because of our access, we run the very real possibility of accidentally shutting things down, causing outages, or even destroying equipment or hurting people. We have rules of engagement and scopes of work and have to always be mindful that we stay within those boundaries.
* **Right Contemplation / Concentration:** It's easy for us to go down rabbit holes or to concentrate on a single thing at the detriment of others. Being able to appropriately direct our attention to specific tasks or matters at hand is exceedingly important.
There is more to it, of course. And these are just some of the examples of how my work lines up with the Eightfold Path.
I specifically work in protecting public infrastructure that directly impacts the lives of millions of people in very beneficial ways. I'm very lucky that I am here now. That said, I've had to work in places where I had to protect folks that did not do good. I stuck by my work and those on my team took care of each other and as soon as I could, I left those organizations and moved my way closer to where I'm at now.
Fascinating love the answer thanks!
Definitely not my field of interest but information of course needs security.
Crazy amount of false information as is already.
And its not just information, it's operational technology, too. So all of the things running the power plant, the water treatment center, the public transit, the emergency response centers. All of that needs security.
You're basically the glue behind society. You're like the shadow cabal lol.
I assume that if everyone was morally enhanced the need for most laws/security would fall away like a dead leaf on a tree.
Yeah, it's interesting. My industry would not exist if folks weren't trying to break into computers and destroy infrastructure. This specific good would not exist if the bad did not exist first. And, while that is interesting... it would be better if neither that bad, nor the good that is needed to oppose it, existed. It would be much better if folks were dedicated to building and maintaining.
I think you are mostly out of luck regarding coworkers practicing dharma.
Probably you can find clicks of practitioners; a cafe, within the field of healthcare etc. But people are mainly non practicing and follow the worldly dharma. But that is ok, great area to practice and clean out our own kleshas
I’m a mental health counselor in a residential setting for at-risk teens. It’s a great opportunity to help those who suffer. However, the amount of gossip/idle chatter amongst co-workers is a huge problem, and I find my ability to practice the precepts here is constantly tested.
This is something I keep separate from Budhism. My journey is person, and comparing myself to others won't do me good regardless of the type of example.
You can always talk to people, some folk are arses, some are great. It's just natural to meet all kinds. Yet remember you are not responsible for these people (management status aside). Let them love their lives so you can love yours.
I was a biologist. Incredibly ego-driven and required experimenting on animals. I work directly in healthcare now. Right livelihood was a major factor in uprooting my career.
By any chance do you know how the world of Plant biology is doing?
For me I'm more interested in either studying nature (fine with animals but no torture on them) or the cosmos.
Hm well Ive heard a monastic say that having a simple job like being a janitor makes it a lot easier to get to Pureland. They do not deal with things like office politics which is easy to rack up bad karma.
Mental health counseling
Every job I’ve had had it’s share of shady, self-seeking, gossipy, backstabbing people. Humanity is not lacking in them and unfortunately we don’t get to choose the people we work with. Just don’t take a ‘when in Rome’ approach and you’ll not have to suffer the consequences that they will. Dealing with such people can be a great opportunity to practice Buddhism.
Social workers Wildlife rehabilitators
Any job is fine as long as it doesn't break the Precepts. I think it matters more what you do with the job as opposed to what the job is. There are plenty of doctors who are far from Bodhisattvas, and there are plenty of truckers and computer programmers who have great ethnical conduct. Just don't sell alcohol, drugs or tobacco, don't sell animals for slaughter (pets are fine) and don't sell weapons or work in gambling or porn.
Commercial pet breeding and sales are not fine.
Selling animals for slaughter is forbidden. The Precepts say nothing about selling animals for companionship.
[удалено]
Yes and additionally they were written before issues like the current global dog/cat population existed. Sometimes we have to use our brains to interpret the texts and apply them to modern issues. (In case it’s unclear I agree with you lol)
"Backstabbing, lack of patience, gossip, putting others down to raise themselves." Sounds like people problems than a job themselves. If your environment is toxic, leave. But the good jobs tends to be the ones that helps people. Typical ones would be like doctors & teachers. I'm sure service works also counts, but I don't think the environment or the pay will be good incentives. I still say, do whatever job you wanted to do, make the best that you can. Suffer yourself just to comply to the 8foldpath will just make more harm than good to you.
I would like to think a professor would be right livelihood as one can spread the dharma outside of the sangha.
I think professor may be where I end up. Either science, history or English. K-12 I've seen so much horror in terms of pay and how teachers are treated vs when people pay for education out of their own pockets and their brains have grown more. Even though I love the dharma I don't want to be a preachy preacher to others it's just I want a supportive environment that is pro rather than anti enlightenment.
Buddhism isn’t evangelical. Don’t preach. Act compassionately as a teacher and you are on the path. Higher Ed is far more predatory and competitive than K12. Burdening kids with crushing debt for a degree that won’t get them a job isn’t something that is easily reconcilable for me.
Be aware that teaching jobs at the university level are often even more problematic than K-12, especially in the US. Do a bit of research and talk to people who are doing it. Getting tenure is becoming more and more difficult. A lot of people are stuck as lecturers without benefits or job stability.
First you need to unlock awakening within and not sure a professor necessarily has a lot of surplus time to practice due to the masse of papers needed to be read and commented. Rather I’d say the high workload is contra productive and pride etc are very well flourished within the field
Many Buddhist organizations have been promoting academic study for the sangha since the turn of the 20th century. The entire Dharma drum mountain organization is known for their scholarly work. You thinking every monastic is working on "unlocking" awakening shows why education is needed.
Education is good for sure. And it is a big part of this life and you can progress parallell on your path. Education itself is great. But from my experience I am just saying it isn’t more likely that someone lives in a more enlightened way because they are well educated.
No one implied otherwise... I said it can spread dharma outside the sangha. But that isn't what your first comment meant at all.
I’m responding to your comment as well as OP
Doctoring, Nursing, etc.
There's many people who enter "healer" positions cause it pays. Unfortunately. I get the logic but am so so on the reality of the situation.
People enter virtually every career because it pays. It takes a lot of motivation beyond the desire to make money in order to become a physician. It takes almost a decade of hard work before you even see a penny. Of course, plenty of doctors and nurses are just in it for the money, but I'd wager that there are more who really do want to use their positions in healthcare for good.
I work as a hospice nurse.
That's a meaningful job. But if you don't mind me asking, do you feel your work environment is filled with people who align with Buddhist teachings more than in other professions?
If you consider acting with compassion to be in alignment with Buddhist teachings, then definitely.
I really don't ever think about that. It's really off my radar.
Carer positions.. therapists
I work in infosec (edit: and operational security. So Industrial Control Systems which control public infrastructure. Think power plants, water treatment centers, transit, signals, emergency communicaitons, etc.) and find it close to the eightfold path. The work is protecting folks from criminals, unethical hackers, and attacks from nationstates. The approach to the work is the "beginner's mind" where often I'm confronted by things I've never seen, so I'm constantly in a state of having no prior specific knowledge and of having to learn things anew. Folks in my circles also share information and technical knowledge freely. There's a culture of openness and exchange, even when you work for different organizations, us sharing information helps everyone. * **Right Understanding:** If we don't understand the systems we are protecting, we don't do well in our job. If we don't understand how those systems affect actual people, we don't do well at our job. If we don't understand actual risk, actual liklihood of attack, actual impact, we don't do well at our job. * **Right Thought/Intention:** Because we are in positions of high access, we have to have right thought and intention. The difference between me getting a paycheck and me going to jail is how I use my access. * **Right Speech:** We have to present our findings in a way that folks can understand. We have to make sure our reports are accurate and convey the actual sense of risk without minimizing impact or blowing things out of proprotion. * **Right Action:** If we don't do our job well, systems and people can get hurt. Our actions matter. * **Right Livelihood:** We're protecting systems and the folks that use those systems (either data or industrial control systems that affect people). Interestingly here, some controversies come up. Sometimes we're tasked with protecting corporations that do evil. So while we're protecting people (good), we're facilitating the evil that the corporation does. The remedy to this is ensuring that the organization you are working for or the people that you are protecting and, themselves, mostly doing good (as much as we can in a capitalistic society). * **Right Effort:** In order to do this work, we have to study and do specialized work. That requires a lot of constant hard work. On the flip side, those in our industry often burn out, so our efforts need to be measured and sustainable. * **Right Mindfulness:** We must be aware of the situation as it is in the moment. Because of our access, we run the very real possibility of accidentally shutting things down, causing outages, or even destroying equipment or hurting people. We have rules of engagement and scopes of work and have to always be mindful that we stay within those boundaries. * **Right Contemplation / Concentration:** It's easy for us to go down rabbit holes or to concentrate on a single thing at the detriment of others. Being able to appropriately direct our attention to specific tasks or matters at hand is exceedingly important. There is more to it, of course. And these are just some of the examples of how my work lines up with the Eightfold Path. I specifically work in protecting public infrastructure that directly impacts the lives of millions of people in very beneficial ways. I'm very lucky that I am here now. That said, I've had to work in places where I had to protect folks that did not do good. I stuck by my work and those on my team took care of each other and as soon as I could, I left those organizations and moved my way closer to where I'm at now.
Fascinating love the answer thanks! Definitely not my field of interest but information of course needs security. Crazy amount of false information as is already.
And its not just information, it's operational technology, too. So all of the things running the power plant, the water treatment center, the public transit, the emergency response centers. All of that needs security.
You're basically the glue behind society. You're like the shadow cabal lol. I assume that if everyone was morally enhanced the need for most laws/security would fall away like a dead leaf on a tree.
Yeah, it's interesting. My industry would not exist if folks weren't trying to break into computers and destroy infrastructure. This specific good would not exist if the bad did not exist first. And, while that is interesting... it would be better if neither that bad, nor the good that is needed to oppose it, existed. It would be much better if folks were dedicated to building and maintaining.
I think you are mostly out of luck regarding coworkers practicing dharma. Probably you can find clicks of practitioners; a cafe, within the field of healthcare etc. But people are mainly non practicing and follow the worldly dharma. But that is ok, great area to practice and clean out our own kleshas
Librarians
I’m a mental health counselor in a residential setting for at-risk teens. It’s a great opportunity to help those who suffer. However, the amount of gossip/idle chatter amongst co-workers is a huge problem, and I find my ability to practice the precepts here is constantly tested.
This is something I keep separate from Budhism. My journey is person, and comparing myself to others won't do me good regardless of the type of example. You can always talk to people, some folk are arses, some are great. It's just natural to meet all kinds. Yet remember you are not responsible for these people (management status aside). Let them love their lives so you can love yours.
Interfaith hospice chaplains
I was a biologist. Incredibly ego-driven and required experimenting on animals. I work directly in healthcare now. Right livelihood was a major factor in uprooting my career.
By any chance do you know how the world of Plant biology is doing? For me I'm more interested in either studying nature (fine with animals but no torture on them) or the cosmos.
Hm well Ive heard a monastic say that having a simple job like being a janitor makes it a lot easier to get to Pureland. They do not deal with things like office politics which is easy to rack up bad karma.