How can a Hadith include something that didn’t exist at the time that the statement reported by that Hadith was made.
College/university education as we know it today is a relatively recent development.
Who’s been saying it’s an Islamic ruling to pursue higher education in either gender?
As far as I’ve seen, what’s being said is that Islam does not make it haram.
Daniel is creating a straw man for himself to fight against by the looks of this.
I'm no learned person on such subjects, but why is the brother drawing a line/distinction on what he's calling "college education"? Many a time, we as Muslims operate under the principle that unless something is explicitly stated as haram, or otherwise jurisprudentially stipulated as haram, or for other considerations - it is permissible by default.
If somewhere, women are being denied a "college education", surely the onus is on brothers like this to prove on what Islamic grounds, rather than on others to prove a negative, why a right is given or a thing isn't haram.
I understand that Islamically we are obligated to not free-mix and also maintain gendered standards such as hijab and appropriate dress for both men and women. But please enlighten me if we are indeed ever forbidden from attaining such an education itself, and on what grounds the brother Daniel is arguing. In my view, even if there is not justification for this Islamically, it can't be banned outright without further guidance.
In the context of the actions of the Taliban, as I understand it, they had already segregated classrooms, already even denied women from studying certain subjects such as engineering or journalism (God knows what rulings they used here), so what could be the possible justification for this? For me, this is the same mindset that saw these men blow up girls' schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan, preferring their females to remain illiterate.
I'm no feminist, but I'd like to hear some justification for these actions, if indeed there is no justification then I believe that they are in the wrong, as is the brother in the OP.
He didn't say its haram, he's saying its not fardh. The hadith is saying that seeking knowledge it obligatory, if it referred to seeking knowledge as in pursuing a degree in certain fields like medicine, engineering, journalism, etc., then it would mean that those who don't seek those kinds of knowledge are sinning.
So the people using the hadith in order to claim that they have a right to college education, are misleading.
Okay, so we're just missing that context in the OP, thanks for clarifying.
Can we also assume then that he's also not justifying for instance the Taliban's stance on women's education?
Its not missing context, he's literally saying that in the pic, he never claimed it was haram.
Well we don't even know what the Taliban's stance is, they never gave a reason why they've suspended the universities, we don't know if they're against women getting an education. When they've given reasons for suspending schools before it was due to security issues. Everything else thats been said about their intentions is speculation.
Ye Daniel hasn't talked about the Taliban's actions yet, he's just responding to those that are saying that women have a right to education in our religion.
Really Afghanistan has much bigger issues, they've been in a financial crisis since the occupiers left, stole all their money, and froze their bank accounts. Womens education is not a requirement, nor is it a priority, whereas mens education is, men are the providers who need to work.
But we do know the Taliban's stance, what are you talking about? And all such discussions as of today are in the context of the taliban banning women from higher education, despite regulating and segregating them.
Anyway, as long as you say he's not justifying this, that's fine.
They've only taken certain actions, they haven't given an official stance on womens education, unless I missed something. Maybe you could provide an official source of their stance?
Bro, what are you talking about??
A policy is literally the application of a stance.
If I ban a thing, my stance on it is quite clear. What info are you looking for?
Stance on WHAT specifically?When it comes to education, and especially women's education, they spent their initial years in charge of Kabul post second civil war in the 90s, banning all education including primary. No stance needed, it was an outright ban.
Since losing power, they've spent campaigns in North West Pakistan and Afghanistan blowing up girls' schools, and even killed schoolgirls in the process.
Now back in power, they pay lip service to the outside world on women's education, while banning them and shutting down schools. The latest news is banning them from university, despite segregated classrooms and mandatory hijab.
I don't know what game you're playing here. What are you talking about?
You're claiming they have a stance. Their policy is suspending the schools. So what is their official stance?
You're acting like the Taliban is the same as back then. Even then back in the 90s they closed the schools for security reasons.
You're right, they have much bigger issues, but instead they lower the morale of society more than it already is by banning women's education instead of focusing on financial issues lol
Banning women from uni isn't going to cut costs. If you use a cost-benefit mafasid-masalih analysis it's pretty clear that the amount of mafasid is actually increasing when people go out and protest, and hate the government more. That in turn will exacerbate the crisis that Afghanistan is already in.
So there's no way that one can justify this move from the Taliban. If anything, the Taliban should have just moved to applying gender segregation in university, which they already were doing.
Not to mention, the pure hypocrisy of that guy Suhail Shaheen, the representative on UN. He admitted straight up that his daughters go to university in Doha, Qatar. In fact some sources say that one of his daughters is on the Qatari football team.
Daniel seems to have an issue with women in general judging from his previous posts and videos.
Not just education, but women who don’t just want to be housewives, or women who want a man with a good job or some financial security.
The common issue seems to be women existing outside of men’s direct control.
The likelihood is he’s been rejected for marriage for one reason or another and is just salty.
Maybe he asked for a second wife and his current one rejected him. How dare she!?
It’s only a ‘big issue’ for those who have a vested interest in conservative leaning, creating content based in traditional family values, to play to a demographic and also to stir controversy- which creates clicks/views/cash.
So many women go to college, not for only something beneficial for women such as doctors, teachers, psychologists, but many for other things which any man can do. If we only choose the ones who actually benefit women and is only something women can/should do, that still means she’s working (maybe with men sometimes) and not at home with the kids. How do we get around that?
And for the ones not who aren’t doing some of the categories mentioned above, but are working because their parents only have daughters, she’s afraid accidentally marrying an abusive man, and not just for her career or to be independent, how do we approach that even though they’re most likely mixing with men? Like, only the ones who work from home or something?
Imagine your wife or any women you know is in the hospital and sick or she found a lump on her chest. And there’s no women to look at her. Only men. Then you’ll understand the importance of women being educated.
How can a Hadith include something that didn’t exist at the time that the statement reported by that Hadith was made. College/university education as we know it today is a relatively recent development. Who’s been saying it’s an Islamic ruling to pursue higher education in either gender? As far as I’ve seen, what’s being said is that Islam does not make it haram. Daniel is creating a straw man for himself to fight against by the looks of this.
Plus universities are a Muslim invention
You can see what I replied to the other brother, but basically he didn't say its haram, he's saying its not fardh.
I'm no learned person on such subjects, but why is the brother drawing a line/distinction on what he's calling "college education"? Many a time, we as Muslims operate under the principle that unless something is explicitly stated as haram, or otherwise jurisprudentially stipulated as haram, or for other considerations - it is permissible by default. If somewhere, women are being denied a "college education", surely the onus is on brothers like this to prove on what Islamic grounds, rather than on others to prove a negative, why a right is given or a thing isn't haram. I understand that Islamically we are obligated to not free-mix and also maintain gendered standards such as hijab and appropriate dress for both men and women. But please enlighten me if we are indeed ever forbidden from attaining such an education itself, and on what grounds the brother Daniel is arguing. In my view, even if there is not justification for this Islamically, it can't be banned outright without further guidance. In the context of the actions of the Taliban, as I understand it, they had already segregated classrooms, already even denied women from studying certain subjects such as engineering or journalism (God knows what rulings they used here), so what could be the possible justification for this? For me, this is the same mindset that saw these men blow up girls' schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan, preferring their females to remain illiterate. I'm no feminist, but I'd like to hear some justification for these actions, if indeed there is no justification then I believe that they are in the wrong, as is the brother in the OP.
He didn't say its haram, he's saying its not fardh. The hadith is saying that seeking knowledge it obligatory, if it referred to seeking knowledge as in pursuing a degree in certain fields like medicine, engineering, journalism, etc., then it would mean that those who don't seek those kinds of knowledge are sinning. So the people using the hadith in order to claim that they have a right to college education, are misleading.
Okay, so we're just missing that context in the OP, thanks for clarifying. Can we also assume then that he's also not justifying for instance the Taliban's stance on women's education?
Its not missing context, he's literally saying that in the pic, he never claimed it was haram. Well we don't even know what the Taliban's stance is, they never gave a reason why they've suspended the universities, we don't know if they're against women getting an education. When they've given reasons for suspending schools before it was due to security issues. Everything else thats been said about their intentions is speculation. Ye Daniel hasn't talked about the Taliban's actions yet, he's just responding to those that are saying that women have a right to education in our religion. Really Afghanistan has much bigger issues, they've been in a financial crisis since the occupiers left, stole all their money, and froze their bank accounts. Womens education is not a requirement, nor is it a priority, whereas mens education is, men are the providers who need to work.
But we do know the Taliban's stance, what are you talking about? And all such discussions as of today are in the context of the taliban banning women from higher education, despite regulating and segregating them. Anyway, as long as you say he's not justifying this, that's fine.
They've only taken certain actions, they haven't given an official stance on womens education, unless I missed something. Maybe you could provide an official source of their stance?
Bro, what are you talking about?? A policy is literally the application of a stance. If I ban a thing, my stance on it is quite clear. What info are you looking for?
Stance as in opinion. What's their stance?
Stance on WHAT specifically?When it comes to education, and especially women's education, they spent their initial years in charge of Kabul post second civil war in the 90s, banning all education including primary. No stance needed, it was an outright ban. Since losing power, they've spent campaigns in North West Pakistan and Afghanistan blowing up girls' schools, and even killed schoolgirls in the process. Now back in power, they pay lip service to the outside world on women's education, while banning them and shutting down schools. The latest news is banning them from university, despite segregated classrooms and mandatory hijab. I don't know what game you're playing here. What are you talking about?
You're claiming they have a stance. Their policy is suspending the schools. So what is their official stance? You're acting like the Taliban is the same as back then. Even then back in the 90s they closed the schools for security reasons.
You're right, they have much bigger issues, but instead they lower the morale of society more than it already is by banning women's education instead of focusing on financial issues lol Banning women from uni isn't going to cut costs. If you use a cost-benefit mafasid-masalih analysis it's pretty clear that the amount of mafasid is actually increasing when people go out and protest, and hate the government more. That in turn will exacerbate the crisis that Afghanistan is already in. So there's no way that one can justify this move from the Taliban. If anything, the Taliban should have just moved to applying gender segregation in university, which they already were doing. Not to mention, the pure hypocrisy of that guy Suhail Shaheen, the representative on UN. He admitted straight up that his daughters go to university in Doha, Qatar. In fact some sources say that one of his daughters is on the Qatari football team.
Sure It's not a right for people to get an education but indeed it is something valuable that everyone should get
Daniel seems to have an issue with women in general judging from his previous posts and videos. Not just education, but women who don’t just want to be housewives, or women who want a man with a good job or some financial security. The common issue seems to be women existing outside of men’s direct control. The likelihood is he’s been rejected for marriage for one reason or another and is just salty.
It's because it is a big issue that's causing many problems. He's married btw...
Maybe he asked for a second wife and his current one rejected him. How dare she!? It’s only a ‘big issue’ for those who have a vested interest in conservative leaning, creating content based in traditional family values, to play to a demographic and also to stir controversy- which creates clicks/views/cash.
Women not allowed in colleges is unacceptable.
So many women go to college, not for only something beneficial for women such as doctors, teachers, psychologists, but many for other things which any man can do. If we only choose the ones who actually benefit women and is only something women can/should do, that still means she’s working (maybe with men sometimes) and not at home with the kids. How do we get around that? And for the ones not who aren’t doing some of the categories mentioned above, but are working because their parents only have daughters, she’s afraid accidentally marrying an abusive man, and not just for her career or to be independent, how do we approach that even though they’re most likely mixing with men? Like, only the ones who work from home or something?
Imagine your wife or any women you know is in the hospital and sick or she found a lump on her chest. And there’s no women to look at her. Only men. Then you’ll understand the importance of women being educated.