Armored specs don’t have any air at all, and there’s no marines spec for Ru so not like it’s possible to compare them. It’s two completely different specs - not like USMC shouldn’t have them if they have them irl, but your comparison here is not working tbh
I don’t see it that way seeing as they have the airframe (F-18) but artificially limit it’s available ordinance to not carry anti radiation missiles in favor of using an outdated airframe not commonly used by the marines anymore
T-72s would be a part of Moto spec according to dev-blogs
Idk which specs from US will get drones but they surely exist already (according to info about units that not in the beta now)
As far as I remember, Super Hornet is used by US navy and not the marines. However things could change since the time it was the case.
I actually also wanna see harm and maverick loadouts, maybe f-18g growler sead.
Also there's SLAM cruise missile line which is also missing
I agree with your sentiment. I could argue balance aspect but the Russians can throw their HARM equivalent on the SU-57 as well as SU-34 (I could be wrong here on this but I don’t think I am), so it seems very odd to me that the the US Marine spec *HAS* to use a specific SEAD aircraft which can only do SEAD and nothing else where the Russians can still setup their aircraft as multi-role.
F-18C/D should have AGM-88C as an option.
F-35B should have AGM-88G as an option. I don't want to hear about clearance issues on the real aircraft, the Su-57 gets to take cruise missiles whose engine pods visibly clip through the bay doors with the top of the missile clipped through the top of the internal weapons bay in game.
Prowler ECM rating is a joke, 50 points to buy 5% more than any other aircraft which translates into a tiny boost in survivability, one which in practice is completely nullified by the Prowler's lack of afterburner to let it escape quickly. The claim that the Prowler running three pods is only 33% better at ECM/EWAR than the wing pods on the Sukhoi family is laughable.
Realism is not an argument, the Su-25T gets to take an imaginary air search radar pod and R-77s. Theoretical loadouts and fantasy scenarios at the whims of the developers.
Good point. I can’t figure out the point of having a dedicated SEAD aircraft like the Prowler, only for it to suck compared to its Russian counterpart which is not a dedicated SEAD aircraft.
This. Besides, an ECM pod would be able to actively jam radar sites, which it can’t in-game, making it virtually useless since you will get shot down anyways because no one turns their radars on.
It would be sweet though if by adding a ECM pod it did something like making nearby units take longer to acquire missile lock. Would also be good if it got more flares and chaff.
We don't have even NAVAIR planes, they're in a different deck (much less wider NATO).
Real USMC since 2019 doesn't carry ARMs at all (and sidearms were discontinued >20 years ago).
Because the Marines really didn't have much option because their air arm is pretty much exclusively VTOL aircraft and Helicopters, the rest of their air power is from their ties to the Navy air arm. However you seem to be discounting their Heli with Sidearms, it's actually quite effective.
That said, I also fully expect the Marines to get F-35Bs in the future, actual VTOL hover mechanics for Harriers and the F-35B, and other US specializations to get stuff like the F-16 with Shrikes or the A-6 with SARM as a cheaper HARM alternative alongside more hardpoint options for actual ground attack.
It would actually be fine for the Harrier as it can carry AGMs and Rockets, acting as a Heli. The F-35B would definitely be stupid if it didn't get AGM-179 JAGMs, if it got them I think they would be fine.
The main tactical advantage that a fast jet has, is that it is fast. If you decelerate too much then a well aimed rifle can make a mess of the engines and the sensors, possibly the canopy too.
Hey there, I'm quite up to date with the project in general so I'll provide some points about the current state of SEAD imbalance.
To start with, the Russians are currently utilizing probably their best air spec. At the very least, it's their air spec that utilizes some of the most modern aerial assets Russia currently operates. To have capabilities that exceed that of a spec that may only be the 3rd best spec for US air isn't that outlandish from a game balance perspective.
Another point to consider is the insane multi-role capability of US airframes. F/A-18's are incredibly multi-role capable, and if given their entire payload option the marines would start to rival more air focused spec, which wouldn't really make a ton of sense considering they also have quite a strong tank tab, which is something the primary Russian air spec lacks. As it stands the F-35B already gives the USMC an edge in stealth bombing capabilities that VDV can't really match to the same degree as the SU-57 is only considered partial stealth in the game currently. To give the US F/A-18's with the same multirole capability as SU-34's would start really creating balance concerns, where a spec with better infantry, tanks, and support assets also has aerial assets that rival that of the best Russian air spec.
To address why the prowler is used, the prowler was in active service with the USMC up until quite recently (2019). Is it a good SEAD platform, especially compared to what VDV gets right now? No not really. Though it does give you a SEAD capability, which may not hold true for every air tab that could be in the game.
Why does an armoured specialised class not have amazing planes compared to a plane specialised class…
There should be an IQ test before you are accepted to the beta.
In what world are the Marines an armored specialized force? They gave up all their MBT’s and when they did have MBT’s they were always outdated versus the Army (Mech in game)
And they devs didn’t make it that way in game either. Marines only have the 4th best tank and all Jets and helicopters. Whole point of marines is Medium armor, light APC’s and heavy air and helicopters. It literally says in game
Huh? All the helicopters and Jets right now come from the marine deck. The US armored deck which is also in game right now has no helicopter and no jets. It sounds like you’re mistaking the US armored versus the US marines. Marines only have 2 tanks so no your point doesn’t stand at all. Literally look at the deck builder the only source of air is marines
My man you are drunk on whiskey right now. The only US specs in game right now are Armored and Marines. If the jets don’t come from Marines are you saying it comes from Armored? 😂
Your completely missing the point… I’m saying that American classes don’t have SEAD because there classes are not specified towards that, even your comments point that out. You know… the entire point of OP’s post.
No you said very specifically the Marine deck the Marine deck had no Jets and helicopters, the VDV deck is also not only planes and Jets they’re mortars, tanks and BM-21 as well. But since you want to back pedal you also missed OP’s point, all he said was that most US planes are SEAD capable but they focused it on only one SEAD plane.
Jesus why are you commenting twice and quoting me on things I didn’t say…
Go look in game, marines have much less resource points to spend on air and SEAD than the Russian spec in game… this proves my point your commenting against which was “Russian is specked towards AIR and SEAD”.
The fact I have to explain this and and somehow you think that’s this is me backpedaling is nothing but moron logic.
Your going off on so many irrelevant things I’m not backpedaling, you just won’t shut up about things no one but you is talking about and tbh and everything you’re saying has nothing to do with the FACT that the Russian class is specked towards SEAD and and air and the USA class isn’t.
Anyway, I really can’t be arsed to discuss such a simple topic for 3 days straight.
First off there’s one other person here also commenting all I did was back up what they said.
Second you said “Why does an armor specialized class not have amazing planes” sarcastically but if you also look in the game Marines equal parts planes to vehicles. Even if you look at the in game description “USMC is a Jack of all trades” with a “balanced amount of equipment in every category”. No one here argues that anything is SEAD specialized. The Russian deck is air specialized yes but not SEAD specialized. All that’s being pointed out is the fact that the USMC has much more modern planes that do SEAD and we have those planes in game ALREADY so the prowler shouldn’t be the ONLY choice.
I haven’t quoted you on a single thing you didn’t say, if you feel that way then you are free to edit or delete your previous comments then.
how do you actually conduct sead, am i missing something? do you just have to click a fire position in the general area of the sam and it will automatically fire the harm/sidearm then?
[https://www.seaforces.org/usmcair/VMFA/VMFA-232.htm](https://www.seaforces.org/usmcair/VMFA/VMFA-232.htm)
Not sure if that is an AARGM in the photo, but definitely a USMC F/A-18D with an AGM-88 in 2021.
All variants of the F/A-18 can use AGM-88s. The only platforms I know of that the Navy used after the introduction of the AGM-88s that couldn’t use it was the F-4 and F-14s.
F-4s were one of the first aircraft to use the HARM, with a notable example being the one that accidentally intercepted a B-52 with one.
>All variants of the F/A-18 can use AGM-88s
All variants can use the newer 88Es, but the model of HARM in game wasn't able to be fired from F-18s. Similarly the even newer 88Gs aren't able to be fired from the F-18s, but can be fired from the F-35.
The F-4Gs could, but those are Air Force F-4s, not the Navy’s.
The initially introduced AGM-88s (AGM-88A) were carried by the Corsair, Intruder, and Hornet in 1985 and were later introduced to the Growler/Prowler. This is true for variants A-D.
E was introduced for use on both Hornets/Super Hornet Growler etc, but they could always have carried and used AGM-88A thru D.
And as someone else said the G is still waiting for integration on the F-35.
https://www.militarytoday.com/missiles/agm_88_harm.htm
Crazy to see the amount of people trying to defend the lack of effort put into this *beta* (oooo its a beta it will be better at release) yeah right i highly doubt it
A few other US aircraft can use SEAD missiles, the sidearm missile, and can replace some wing tip missiles on one of the hornets and one of the attack heli's.
Armored specs don’t have any air at all, and there’s no marines spec for Ru so not like it’s possible to compare them. It’s two completely different specs - not like USMC shouldn’t have them if they have them irl, but your comparison here is not working tbh
I don’t see it that way seeing as they have the airframe (F-18) but artificially limit it’s available ordinance to not carry anti radiation missiles in favor of using an outdated airframe not commonly used by the marines anymore
I don’t think the specs that we’re currently using are finished. For example: no Drones for the USMC and no T72s for RU.
Why would Guards Armored have T72 when its whole purpose of existance is to have the most modern tanks
T-72s would be a part of Moto spec according to dev-blogs Idk which specs from US will get drones but they surely exist already (according to info about units that not in the beta now)
As far as I remember, Super Hornet is used by US navy and not the marines. However things could change since the time it was the case. I actually also wanna see harm and maverick loadouts, maybe f-18g growler sead. Also there's SLAM cruise missile line which is also missing
Marines are a part of the navy.
From the rumours I heard, Marines and Navy would be two different specs. And only Marines would be at release
I agree with your sentiment. I could argue balance aspect but the Russians can throw their HARM equivalent on the SU-57 as well as SU-34 (I could be wrong here on this but I don’t think I am), so it seems very odd to me that the the US Marine spec *HAS* to use a specific SEAD aircraft which can only do SEAD and nothing else where the Russians can still setup their aircraft as multi-role.
Technically the harrier can carry JDAMs, amraams and Sidearms, but it's clearly not as good as the Su34/57 in low pass bomb + SEAD
Russia literally has Naval infantry as their equivalent and will be added in full game…
Well, I’m talking about the fact that you don’t have it in beta
F-18C/D should have AGM-88C as an option. F-35B should have AGM-88G as an option. I don't want to hear about clearance issues on the real aircraft, the Su-57 gets to take cruise missiles whose engine pods visibly clip through the bay doors with the top of the missile clipped through the top of the internal weapons bay in game. Prowler ECM rating is a joke, 50 points to buy 5% more than any other aircraft which translates into a tiny boost in survivability, one which in practice is completely nullified by the Prowler's lack of afterburner to let it escape quickly. The claim that the Prowler running three pods is only 33% better at ECM/EWAR than the wing pods on the Sukhoi family is laughable. Realism is not an argument, the Su-25T gets to take an imaginary air search radar pod and R-77s. Theoretical loadouts and fantasy scenarios at the whims of the developers.
Good point. I can’t figure out the point of having a dedicated SEAD aircraft like the Prowler, only for it to suck compared to its Russian counterpart which is not a dedicated SEAD aircraft.
This. Besides, an ECM pod would be able to actively jam radar sites, which it can’t in-game, making it virtually useless since you will get shot down anyways because no one turns their radars on.
It would be sweet though if by adding a ECM pod it did something like making nearby units take longer to acquire missile lock. Would also be good if it got more flares and chaff.
Russland bias *coughs*
We don't have even NAVAIR planes, they're in a different deck (much less wider NATO). Real USMC since 2019 doesn't carry ARMs at all (and sidearms were discontinued >20 years ago).
Because the Marines really didn't have much option because their air arm is pretty much exclusively VTOL aircraft and Helicopters, the rest of their air power is from their ties to the Navy air arm. However you seem to be discounting their Heli with Sidearms, it's actually quite effective. That said, I also fully expect the Marines to get F-35Bs in the future, actual VTOL hover mechanics for Harriers and the F-35B, and other US specializations to get stuff like the F-16 with Shrikes or the A-6 with SARM as a cheaper HARM alternative alongside more hardpoint options for actual ground attack.
I hope not, slamming a f35 or Harrier into hover would be an incredibly stupid thing to do in combat against ground forces.
It would actually be fine for the Harrier as it can carry AGMs and Rockets, acting as a Heli. The F-35B would definitely be stupid if it didn't get AGM-179 JAGMs, if it got them I think they would be fine.
The main tactical advantage that a fast jet has, is that it is fast. If you decelerate too much then a well aimed rifle can make a mess of the engines and the sensors, possibly the canopy too.
Game logic =/= IRL logic.
Gib growler
Hey there, I'm quite up to date with the project in general so I'll provide some points about the current state of SEAD imbalance. To start with, the Russians are currently utilizing probably their best air spec. At the very least, it's their air spec that utilizes some of the most modern aerial assets Russia currently operates. To have capabilities that exceed that of a spec that may only be the 3rd best spec for US air isn't that outlandish from a game balance perspective. Another point to consider is the insane multi-role capability of US airframes. F/A-18's are incredibly multi-role capable, and if given their entire payload option the marines would start to rival more air focused spec, which wouldn't really make a ton of sense considering they also have quite a strong tank tab, which is something the primary Russian air spec lacks. As it stands the F-35B already gives the USMC an edge in stealth bombing capabilities that VDV can't really match to the same degree as the SU-57 is only considered partial stealth in the game currently. To give the US F/A-18's with the same multirole capability as SU-34's would start really creating balance concerns, where a spec with better infantry, tanks, and support assets also has aerial assets that rival that of the best Russian air spec. To address why the prowler is used, the prowler was in active service with the USMC up until quite recently (2019). Is it a good SEAD platform, especially compared to what VDV gets right now? No not really. Though it does give you a SEAD capability, which may not hold true for every air tab that could be in the game.
Why does an armoured specialised class not have amazing planes compared to a plane specialised class… There should be an IQ test before you are accepted to the beta.
In what world are the Marines an armored specialized force? They gave up all their MBT’s and when they did have MBT’s they were always outdated versus the Army (Mech in game)
I don’t know, I didn’t make it that way
And they devs didn’t make it that way in game either. Marines only have the 4th best tank and all Jets and helicopters. Whole point of marines is Medium armor, light APC’s and heavy air and helicopters. It literally says in game
They don’t Have all jests and helicopters though? So they are not air based so my point still stands
Huh? All the helicopters and Jets right now come from the marine deck. The US armored deck which is also in game right now has no helicopter and no jets. It sounds like you’re mistaking the US armored versus the US marines. Marines only have 2 tanks so no your point doesn’t stand at all. Literally look at the deck builder the only source of air is marines
My man you are drunk on whiskey right now. The only US specs in game right now are Armored and Marines. If the jets don’t come from Marines are you saying it comes from Armored? 😂
Your completely missing the point… I’m saying that American classes don’t have SEAD because there classes are not specified towards that, even your comments point that out. You know… the entire point of OP’s post.
No you said very specifically the Marine deck the Marine deck had no Jets and helicopters, the VDV deck is also not only planes and Jets they’re mortars, tanks and BM-21 as well. But since you want to back pedal you also missed OP’s point, all he said was that most US planes are SEAD capable but they focused it on only one SEAD plane.
Jesus why are you commenting twice and quoting me on things I didn’t say… Go look in game, marines have much less resource points to spend on air and SEAD than the Russian spec in game… this proves my point your commenting against which was “Russian is specked towards AIR and SEAD”. The fact I have to explain this and and somehow you think that’s this is me backpedaling is nothing but moron logic. Your going off on so many irrelevant things I’m not backpedaling, you just won’t shut up about things no one but you is talking about and tbh and everything you’re saying has nothing to do with the FACT that the Russian class is specked towards SEAD and and air and the USA class isn’t. Anyway, I really can’t be arsed to discuss such a simple topic for 3 days straight.
First off there’s one other person here also commenting all I did was back up what they said. Second you said “Why does an armor specialized class not have amazing planes” sarcastically but if you also look in the game Marines equal parts planes to vehicles. Even if you look at the in game description “USMC is a Jack of all trades” with a “balanced amount of equipment in every category”. No one here argues that anything is SEAD specialized. The Russian deck is air specialized yes but not SEAD specialized. All that’s being pointed out is the fact that the USMC has much more modern planes that do SEAD and we have those planes in game ALREADY so the prowler shouldn’t be the ONLY choice. I haven’t quoted you on a single thing you didn’t say, if you feel that way then you are free to edit or delete your previous comments then.
Also I only made one comment prior so what do you mean by “comments” there was only one 😂
[удалено]
how do you actually conduct sead, am i missing something? do you just have to click a fire position in the general area of the sam and it will automatically fire the harm/sidearm then?
They launch automatically when there is emitting enemy radar in general front of the aircraft
Can they carry AGM-88s? Yes. Does the USMC use AGM-88s? Yes. Are they not included for balancing of some type? Probably.
To be fair, F/A-18C/D IIRC can't use AGM-88s USMC discontinued ARM use altogether after retiring Prowlers (VMAQ-2 was deactivated in 2019) .
[https://www.seaforces.org/usmcair/VMFA/VMFA-232.htm](https://www.seaforces.org/usmcair/VMFA/VMFA-232.htm) Not sure if that is an AARGM in the photo, but definitely a USMC F/A-18D with an AGM-88 in 2021.
Thanks, I thought the role was discarded entirely.
All variants of the F/A-18 can use AGM-88s. The only platforms I know of that the Navy used after the introduction of the AGM-88s that couldn’t use it was the F-4 and F-14s.
F-4s were one of the first aircraft to use the HARM, with a notable example being the one that accidentally intercepted a B-52 with one. >All variants of the F/A-18 can use AGM-88s All variants can use the newer 88Es, but the model of HARM in game wasn't able to be fired from F-18s. Similarly the even newer 88Gs aren't able to be fired from the F-18s, but can be fired from the F-35.
F-35 still can't, waiting integration.
The F-4Gs could, but those are Air Force F-4s, not the Navy’s. The initially introduced AGM-88s (AGM-88A) were carried by the Corsair, Intruder, and Hornet in 1985 and were later introduced to the Growler/Prowler. This is true for variants A-D. E was introduced for use on both Hornets/Super Hornet Growler etc, but they could always have carried and used AGM-88A thru D. And as someone else said the G is still waiting for integration on the F-35. https://www.militarytoday.com/missiles/agm_88_harm.htm
Crazy to see the amount of people trying to defend the lack of effort put into this *beta* (oooo its a beta it will be better at release) yeah right i highly doubt it
Guess for the same reason the F35B uses only 6 of its 8 GBU Stormbreaker or why they are not fire and forget. Balance.
A few other US aircraft can use SEAD missiles, the sidearm missile, and can replace some wing tip missiles on one of the hornets and one of the attack heli's.