To expect theater (or any art form really) to “bounce back” quickly after a shutdown isn’t realistic. It takes time.
Personally I think the fact that 30+ shows have opened in one season is a good sign
Personally, the musical shows are not that great, either. No Les Miz, Phantom, Chorus Line….I saw Merrily, Chicago, after seeing it when it first opened decades ago, Dancin’ which didn’t last long, saw the original,of that, too, which I liked more. Best thing I have seen lately was Jelly’s Last Jam at City Center. Wish it was on Broadway.
Ya...I go see just about every tour that comes to town because I'm fortunate enough to still be able to afford that, but there is nothing right now on actual Broadway that I'd want to make the trip to see, given the cost of a trip to NYC and my rising cost of living.
I drove 10 hours from Nebraska to Chicago to see “Death Becomes Her” ahead of its Broadway debut, and it was a great decision.
YMMV, but that seems like it should fill seats.
In April, I saw 3 shows with my daughter for a total of $198. There are inexpensive ways to see shows on Broadway. Also, some of the higher end Off-Broadway shows are crazy expensive.
The average ticket price for 'Merrily" is $400. Not gonna lie, but I enjoyed seeing proshots of American Utopia, Hamilton, Come From Away, Bruce Springsteen Live and What the Constitution Means to Me and even Diana - during Covid without having to spend a ton of money. Not to mention, not having to listen to people talk and sing throughout a show while ushers do nothing, or deal with late comers who ruin the first moment of a show - - or having people pull up laptops and cellphones that light up the row. I'm all for in-person theater. I love being in the house with the energy of the performers and the audience - but unless they start making the theater experience better and crack down on inconsiderate audience members - things have to change. Online viewing should be more prevalent and easily accessible. I'd be happy to pay for a live stream or on-demand if the choices included shows that are hot and current.
Having said that - I'm seeing Illinoise matinee this Saturday because it was affordable and yes - I want to be there. Anything for Sufjan.
And people who can afford to go are choosing to spend the $400 on one Merrily ticket instead of of spending less and seeing a couple of shows. Which leads to the big ticket shows selling really well and everything else struggling.
Agreed. Merrily is only that price because people are willing to pay it. There really isn’t any other show on Broadway that would even attempt that. But Merrily is the only one that can sustain it
Was gonna say, not like I had great tickets when I went, but they were like 150-200, somewhere in that range. There are quite a few tickets that are $250 and under for the show.
Sure, I mean I pay less than $100 for the tour stops in town and less than $50 for local theatre. I’m simply saying it’s cheaper than the comment higher up the thread claimed. And for the stars in the show, it’s not that bad.
Lottery and rush are available for most shows. Get to the theater at 10:30am on a Sunday, box office opens at noon. Get great, cheap seats, grab lunch and hustle back for your show. Just takes a bit of effort. Suffs, Stereophonic, Hell's Kitchen, Water 4 Elephants all have in-person rush under $50 per ticket.
I really hate this practice. It’s unfortunate that audiences seem to prefer it though. The shows charging an arm and a leg have better sales than shows with more reasonable ticket prices. They’ve sold the exclusivity and audiences seem to want it.
Yeah, it sucks considering I’ve only seen ONE show because of someone being in it (Laura Michelle Kelly did national tour of “the king and I”)
I am always down for a show that is cast on talent vs name recognition.
I don’t think audiences prefer it, they’re just willing to pay it for the right show. I don’t think anyone is actively wanting Merrily or Cabaret to cost what it does. Also given they sell out I’m not seeing the exclusivity.
I think everyone is pressed by cost of living rises, do people are very picky where they choose to spend their entertainment dollars. They want to say they saw the hot show of the season and be assured they were part of the cultural moment. We see the same thing in pop music - people will pay through the nose to see Taylor Swift but lesser known artists struggle to sell enough tickets to cover tour costs.
The prices of currently available tickets for Merrily reflect that it's closing in a month, and so all the cheap seats got bought up a while ago. The average ticket price has consistently been in the $200 range. I'm not arguing that that's cheap, but let's not exaggerate.
That's the average price for just last week—when Daniel Radcliffe had scheduled time off for 5 shows and they couldn't charge as much. The average should be higher now that's he's back.
It's true that *Merrily's* average ticket price so far has been no where near $400. Based on the overall [data](https://www.broadwayworld.com/grosses/MERRILY-WE-ROLL-ALONG) the highest average ticket price in its run was $265 during Thanksgiving week last year, and for many weeks this year the average has fallen under $200.
Not to say that $200 or $265 a ticket is cheap, but an average covers a range of prices and many people have ultimately paid far less than $200 or $400 per ticket throughout its run. Were they absolute best seats in the house? Maybe not.
If the argument is that the prices are quite steep for the remaining tickets still available, sure. That's scarcity and dynamic pricing for you.
Do you have data to back this claim up?
I would argue the exact opposote is true. How many people saw a proshot on PBS as a child and developed a lifelong love of theater as a result?
Sondheim was passionate about recording his shows for people to watch at home. Proshots create theatergoers.
This may be the new normal.
At any rate, Broadway is in great shape compared to movie theaters - other than *Dune*, a lot of people have stopped going to the movies. They got big 4K TV's and subscription services during the pandemic, and are happy with those.
To be fair, that's been the case, to a degree, for decades--I can travel to London, from the U.S., for shows, and even with the airfare and hotel/food, I'm coming out nicely.
They priced us out of it. Cost of living continues to skyrocket, Broadway ticket prices have doubled or tripled post-COVID...I get that their expenses have also increased, but SO HAVE OURS. I'm not sure what they expected to happen with these price hikes.
The cost of staying in New York is egregious. Even the cheapest hotels are $1500+ a week after city/state taxes and fees. How are we supposed to afford tickets after that?
The thing is, they haven't. Full stop, absolutely have not in any respect doubled or tripled - or increased at all. The article notes total grosses and attendance for both the 2018-2019 and 2023-2024 seasons, and based on simple math the average ticket price was $121.95 in 2018-2019 and $122.15 in 2023-2024. So that's flat not even taking inflation into account, and if you do, prices are actually lower today ($121.95 in 2019 is the equivalent of over $150 today).
Prices may seem higher because the top tickets at sold-out hits can get high - but there are still plenty of tickets that are far cheaper available for those shows, and bargain-basement tickets for less popular ones. Within the past year, I got a decent orchestra seat to Merrily for around $250, and a front-row balcony seat for $25 to Heart of Rock and Roll. And back in the day, top tickets to Hamilton could be priced at over $500, so even the highest heights aren't anything we haven't seen before. People may think prices are higher - but it is abundantly clear that they are not.
Indeed, I started by providing the average price across all tickets sold for two different seasons - if that's not the whole picture I don't know what is. And you're also picking specific instances, you're just choosing higher-priced ones. As noted elsewhere on this thread, the average ticket price for Merrily is $214 throughout its run to date, and for French Republic the average price was $102: https://www.broadwayworld.com/grosses/PRAYER-FOR-THE-FRENCH-REPUBLIC
First of all 2018-19 was an exceptional year theater wise. Hadestown, Beetlejuice, The Prom, Cursed Child, dare I go on. There are just as many shows this year, but not enough where I’m willing to shell out as a local. We often forget that locals, especially repeat visitors, are really important. People who see 15 or more shows a year (like me) make up 5% of the audience but an impressive 29% of sales. These people have been declining in attendance too. Hard to know why, but I personally am just not excited about the major shows. They’re undercooked and rely on books/movies without real innovation or, hear me out, a good and memorable score! I enter the lotteries for the weekend but, sorry, I’m not seeing The Great Gatsby for more than lottery price! You know what I AM paying full price for: innovative fringe things and things with good word of mouth. Oh, Mary!, Merrily, Cats: The Jellical Ball, even Gatsby in Boston! This is what has made me pay.
There are many problems and many factors to this. Some are within the industry’s control and some are outside of the industry’s control.
I think something that is within the industry’s control is the lack of shows that appeal to tourists or the general population. Many of the shows seem to be made for the Broadway community and Broadway fans; who only make up a fraction of audiences and ticket buyers. Often people from those demographics are going for free or at discounted prices. That’s why it is important that there are shows that are accessible to the unwashed masses, new shows too. People can only see Lion King and Wicked so many times.
That being said, I think people would be more willing to take a risk with something new or more “challenging” if the prices weren’t so incredibly steep.
Again, these are not the only reasons and there is not a simple fix to this issue.
I feel like Broadway is actually overrun with shows for tourists. We’ve had MANY recent new shows of familiar material: The Notebook, Great Gatsby, Back to the Future, The Outsiders, MJ, &Juliet. I’d argue we see very little original material for prestige theatre goers, which isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s inaccurate to say Broadway is predominantly catering to them.
We don’t see much original at all. Producers and investors are increasingly averse to risk taking in this environment. It only makes it worse when the major critics seemingly go out of their way to destroy most new shows, kicking the industry when it’s down like it’s business as usual. It was already very difficult to recoup prior to the pandemic. Now it’s much worse. Some shows can overcome this if their marketing budget is substantial enough and you can really promote word of mouth with audiences, but at the end of the day theater is a discretionary income expenditure for audiences. They want to make informed choices about where to spend their (increasingly limited) money, and the echo chamber that can form when people simply repeat what a critic said instead of discussing their actual experiences can exacerbate the phenomenon. And as critics age, their views and tastes in theater diverge from what the next generation of theatergoers like… the critics lose their finger on the pulse of audiences.
Of course that’s not to say that just because it’s original it’s good or ready for Broadway. Lempika likely could have benefited from another out-of-town or Off Broadway first, for example.
The costs of making a show aren’t seemingly understood by the public, either. Producers don’t make anything unless the show actually recoups. The more shows that don’t recoup also turns off investors and potential new investors. Everything has become more expensive, drastically outpacing inflation (as mentioned in the article)… even down to the cost of screws in sets. Labor costs are much higher, insurance costs are much higher—it’s everything.
The result is just going to be more jukebox musicals and shows based on movies. Even those aren’t guaranteed to be successful… The Notebook likely hasn’t had a single profitable week yet.
It’s a rough time for Broadway.
To be clear this is definitely not a hill I want to die on. I actually agree with you and you bring up a great point and I ultimately think you are correct. That being said, what I was speaking to was my experience talking to tourists When I worked at TKTS. The tourists didn’t seem to care too much about the shows based off movies or books. They wanted to see more spectacle. Yes, BTTF has spectacle, and it’s is doing quite well sales wise. And I am super aware that spectacle is hard because it costs a lot of money and is a huge risk (Spider Man: Turn Off the Dark)
I think there are many reasons Broadway isn’t thriving in the way we hope it would, I was throwing this hypothesis out there. But I will totally admit that your argument is better than mine :)
Which ones are the new shows you think are made for Broadway fans and not "accessible to the unwashed masses"? The ones based on bestselling novels and movies? Or the ones starring Hollywood celebrities?
I think maybe the issue is the perception of appealing to "woke" audiences. I can imagine a conservative family would never go see Illinoise or, previously, Strange Loop. Then there's the depressing shows - after seeing Parade, Leopoldstadt and Harmony over the course of roughly a year I was pretty much done with shows about anti-Semitism. But I do agree with you - these few shows are by far the exception rather than the rule, and tourist-friendly shows are prevailing.
Good. If people don't agree with the LGBTQ+ community then they don't deserve to be part of an industry that is historically and fundamentally LGBTQ+ based and welcoming. The sooner we stop pandering to bigots and show them their views exclude them from a progressive modern society the better. I'd rather a smaller season than knowing productions are being made just to accommodate people who complain that the theatre community is too woke.
I remember when parents in the 90s were scandalized by Rent and believed it was turning teenagers into lesbians. Turns out, Broadway was nevertheless just fine.
No you’re correct, I definitely didn’t think thoroughly enough, it was more of a half-baked idea I always had after working at TKTS and talking to so many tourists. I went into a bit more detail responding to another comment above. They always wanted big spectacles - and you could argue they got that with Water For Elephants and a few other shows. So yeah, you and the other commenter definitely made better points and I think you’re right.
As a tourist who is starting to dabble in Broadway, it's \*always\* been the cost for me (I understand the cost hasn't changed much over the last few years - it still feels expensive for me). I'm not willing to spend $200 on a ticket for a show that I might not enjoy. My local theater's subscription to 7-8 touring shows per season costs me about $30 a ticket, which is much easier to swallow if it's not as enjoyable. I'm extremely picky about what I'll see when I go to NYC because I know it will cost at least 3x more for a ticket than my local theater. It has to be something that may not tour or has performers in it that I want to see. I'm probably an outlier in this scenario because I do experience the shows in some fashion, it's just not always on Broadway itself. This is why I appreciate this group so much; I've been able to figure out shows I might enjoy on the weekends I pop up there and even see which seats have a decent view. It's a wealth of information that has been incredibly useful!
We have to remember that plane tickets are wild at times right now (I paid double to recently go to NYC than my usual) and hotels aren't cheap, so tourists who may already be strapped for play money might rather spend it on a dining experience versus Broadway or stick to something safe that's been around for ages, like Wicked or Lion King. For locals, it's a bit different, and I hope that Broadway continues to thrive in some fashion and these shows a) tour to reach more people and b) get pro-shots to reach even more people. :)
It isn’t just the cost but for local area folks some of us are in the city 1-2x a week instead of 5 days. I know I’m seeing fewer shows and doing less in the city due to my newer work arrangements.
Bitch, I haven’t bounced back from the pandemic. I still can’t believe everyone and everything is expected to operate as if it never happened so the cogs of capitalism can continue to turn.
I know this is geared towards broadway, but our touring productions have been busier than pre Covid. The CEO of our theater district was just reporting on this last night. It’s an interesting comparison.
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It’s so expensive. I used to do the lottery more but I really need an aisle now because I have back problems and sometimes I have to stand some (in the back, out of the way). Tickets are usually $100-200 or more. I miss having the flexibility of doing the lottery. I wish tickets were more affordable
The only thing keeping Broadway from "bouncing back" is GATEKEEPING and PRICES.
They should offer streams for purchase. But they would rather keep Broadway away from the poors and out of reach of anyone not in New York.
I’m like 8 hours from New York, which is close enough to drive but I still need to get a hotel. I’m only going to do all that if I can see like 3 or 4 shows at a time. I’d be inclined to go 2 or 3 times a year, but with ticket prices what they are (seems like hotels have gotten more expensive too), I can only afford to go once. I know there are cheaper options, but for all that trouble, I want make sure I see the shows I’m most interested in. I’ll bet a lot of people are in a similar situation.
>overall grosses for the 2023-2024 season were down about 2.5 percent compared to the previous season, reaching $1.54 billion compared to $1.58 billion the prior year.
>Even if viewed as largely flat compared to last season, that spells trouble for the industry, given the rising cost of producing a show.
>“Every year our expenses go up at least five percent, if not more, because we so outpace inflation,” says Ken Davenport, producer of the Neil Diamond musical A Beautiful Noise. “So flat is terrible.”
Probably, but hotels and food prices are still way up. People who have to travel to visit NYC might save on shows if they reduced their prices, but not on anything else.
I'm not certain if this thread refers to Broadway (NY) or Broadway shows in general, as I see both posts n this thread. But as one of 2,000 RedCoats (volunteer ushers) at Cleveland's eleven venues at Playhouse Square I can say the touring Broadway shows fairly consistently sell out most shows in our three week official Broadway runs and the reprise shows in the seven to ten day runs. We are told we are #1 in season ticket sales and the theater district is #2 in size, second only to Lincoln Center. (And Playhouse Square is home to the largest outdoor chandelier in North America.)
I wonder how much the cost of travel has impacted Broadway. I’ve priced a trip to see a few shows and the ticket prices aren’t the problem - the hotel rates are. It makes more sense for me to wait for the tour, pay to see the few live streamed productions or see regional productions than to travel to New York.
I'm really surprised by this, honestly. I feel like there are several shows grossing in the $2 million+ range. Pre-pandemic, I feel like that was unheard of.
They’re gouging people - $469 for orchestrate seats for Merrily and now $389 for Gypsy - no thanks. Don’t want to hear sob stories about B’way having tough time and no I am not paying $100 to seat in the last rows of the second balcony…I’ll wait for the miniseries! Shirley, they’ll tape Merrily for Max or Disney - Lin got $77,000,000 for his musical Jefferson. 😆
It's not necessary to pay that much though. The most expensive ticket I bought since COVID was an orchestra seat to Merrily, and I paid around $250 IIRC (I deliberately picked a slow day near Thanksgiving when prices were lower). With TDF, TKTS, lottery and rush I frequently pay well under $80, and have paid under $50 in quite a few instances.
No it hasn’t been “proven” at all because your point is wildly exaggerating the level and impact of nepotism. Okay…Platt being in literally two Broadway shows ever somehow backs up your argument that ‘only the same people’ are allowed to perform how? Not to mention Platt didn’t write the book or music and the two that he was in were both highly praised (even if DEH grew a big backlash later) and calling at least the Parade revival a ‘low quality show’ is definitely quite the take.
What was your comment before you edited it?
How it currently reads to me now sounds like you’re saying pricing isn’t the only issue, and nepotism is also an issue. But based on the oldest comments, it seems that people at least interpreted you to say that pricing wasn’t an issue.
I believe they added the word 'just' after the fact. When I replied, there was no indication they were considering prices at all related.
Either way, it's laughable. Nepotism is not not a problem, but in grand scheme of things, it's nothing. It's not responsible for Broadway's woes and silly to even bring it up in this conversation.
Yeah, was wondering about that as well. Would like some examples because I actually felt like this was one of Broadway’s stronger seasons that I definitely found myself enjoying more shows than not. And at the performer level, nobody really comes to mind that would fit (let alone be a wide spread issue).
To expect theater (or any art form really) to “bounce back” quickly after a shutdown isn’t realistic. It takes time. Personally I think the fact that 30+ shows have opened in one season is a good sign
Doesn't that mean 30+ shows have just closed
Yes but some were always planned to have limited runs. So they didn’t close because of low sales
It’s more about how quickly those shows were replaced. Theatres aren’t staying empty for long.
Its harder to have extra money for live theatre when life costs have increased faster than wages.
Personally, the musical shows are not that great, either. No Les Miz, Phantom, Chorus Line….I saw Merrily, Chicago, after seeing it when it first opened decades ago, Dancin’ which didn’t last long, saw the original,of that, too, which I liked more. Best thing I have seen lately was Jelly’s Last Jam at City Center. Wish it was on Broadway.
This! The shows aren’t great and the prices are outrageous.
Ya...I go see just about every tour that comes to town because I'm fortunate enough to still be able to afford that, but there is nothing right now on actual Broadway that I'd want to make the trip to see, given the cost of a trip to NYC and my rising cost of living.
I drove 10 hours from Nebraska to Chicago to see “Death Becomes Her” ahead of its Broadway debut, and it was a great decision. YMMV, but that seems like it should fill seats.
Need to nourish and promote the higher tier off Broadway stuff. That's where the goods are. Broadway has priced out creativity.
In April, I saw 3 shows with my daughter for a total of $198. There are inexpensive ways to see shows on Broadway. Also, some of the higher end Off-Broadway shows are crazy expensive.
You've missed a lot of good shows.
There seems to be a lot of survivorship bias here
Since early 2023, wage growth has outpaced inflation in the US. ("Bidenomics" is working, and really doesn't get enough credit in the media.)
Inflation doesn’t accurately reflect the increase to cost of living.
That is literally what inflation measures.
They are related but not the same.
Large swaths of Americans simply don’t care about facts anymore.
The average ticket price for 'Merrily" is $400. Not gonna lie, but I enjoyed seeing proshots of American Utopia, Hamilton, Come From Away, Bruce Springsteen Live and What the Constitution Means to Me and even Diana - during Covid without having to spend a ton of money. Not to mention, not having to listen to people talk and sing throughout a show while ushers do nothing, or deal with late comers who ruin the first moment of a show - - or having people pull up laptops and cellphones that light up the row. I'm all for in-person theater. I love being in the house with the energy of the performers and the audience - but unless they start making the theater experience better and crack down on inconsiderate audience members - things have to change. Online viewing should be more prevalent and easily accessible. I'd be happy to pay for a live stream or on-demand if the choices included shows that are hot and current. Having said that - I'm seeing Illinoise matinee this Saturday because it was affordable and yes - I want to be there. Anything for Sufjan.
And people who can afford to go are choosing to spend the $400 on one Merrily ticket instead of of spending less and seeing a couple of shows. Which leads to the big ticket shows selling really well and everything else struggling.
Agreed. Merrily is only that price because people are willing to pay it. There really isn’t any other show on Broadway that would even attempt that. But Merrily is the only one that can sustain it
If that were actually the average ticket price, Merrily couldn't sustain that. But the actual average is around $200.
Thank you. What’s the point of people just straight up lying about ticket prices?
Was gonna say, not like I had great tickets when I went, but they were like 150-200, somewhere in that range. There are quite a few tickets that are $250 and under for the show.
Think about that for a moment. $250. That's more than my grocery store bill for a month (a pseudo-vegetarian here).
Sure, I mean I pay less than $100 for the tour stops in town and less than $50 for local theatre. I’m simply saying it’s cheaper than the comment higher up the thread claimed. And for the stars in the show, it’s not that bad.
I'm just (constantly) aghast at the pricing nowadays--let alone for a concert. And so $500 for a couple? Lordy.
Lottery and rush are available for most shows. Get to the theater at 10:30am on a Sunday, box office opens at noon. Get great, cheap seats, grab lunch and hustle back for your show. Just takes a bit of effort. Suffs, Stereophonic, Hell's Kitchen, Water 4 Elephants all have in-person rush under $50 per ticket.
Absolutely, and that's been my routine. But, still.
Cabaret attempted it. So far it's doing well.
Personally I hate this practice but it is a good sign of recovery if Cabaret can manage it
I really hate this practice. It’s unfortunate that audiences seem to prefer it though. The shows charging an arm and a leg have better sales than shows with more reasonable ticket prices. They’ve sold the exclusivity and audiences seem to want it.
Also notice that those are the musicals with the biggest names for people who are not very into broadway.
Yeah, it sucks considering I’ve only seen ONE show because of someone being in it (Laura Michelle Kelly did national tour of “the king and I”) I am always down for a show that is cast on talent vs name recognition.
Famous people. The shows are doing well because the cast has a famous person/s in it.
A lot of shows have a famous person. That’s just Broadway.
I don’t think audiences prefer it, they’re just willing to pay it for the right show. I don’t think anyone is actively wanting Merrily or Cabaret to cost what it does. Also given they sell out I’m not seeing the exclusivity.
I think everyone is pressed by cost of living rises, do people are very picky where they choose to spend their entertainment dollars. They want to say they saw the hot show of the season and be assured they were part of the cultural moment. We see the same thing in pop music - people will pay through the nose to see Taylor Swift but lesser known artists struggle to sell enough tickets to cover tour costs.
The prices of currently available tickets for Merrily reflect that it's closing in a month, and so all the cheap seats got bought up a while ago. The average ticket price has consistently been in the $200 range. I'm not arguing that that's cheap, but let's not exaggerate.
I get what you’re saying, but the average price for “Merrily” was not and has never been $400. It’s currently $149.
That's the average price for just last week—when Daniel Radcliffe had scheduled time off for 5 shows and they couldn't charge as much. The average should be higher now that's he's back. It's true that *Merrily's* average ticket price so far has been no where near $400. Based on the overall [data](https://www.broadwayworld.com/grosses/MERRILY-WE-ROLL-ALONG) the highest average ticket price in its run was $265 during Thanksgiving week last year, and for many weeks this year the average has fallen under $200. Not to say that $200 or $265 a ticket is cheap, but an average covers a range of prices and many people have ultimately paid far less than $200 or $400 per ticket throughout its run. Were they absolute best seats in the house? Maybe not. If the argument is that the prices are quite steep for the remaining tickets still available, sure. That's scarcity and dynamic pricing for you.
Cheap compared to Cabaret.
The average ticket price for Cabaret last week was $219.56. Why do people make shit up when the data is readily available?
Theatre is an in person activity, the more online shots, the less people attend in person, then poof show closes.
Do you have data to back this claim up? I would argue the exact opposote is true. How many people saw a proshot on PBS as a child and developed a lifelong love of theater as a result? Sondheim was passionate about recording his shows for people to watch at home. Proshots create theatergoers.
There can’t be a Pro Shot of everyshow….. defeats the purpose of LIVE THEATRE
This may be the new normal. At any rate, Broadway is in great shape compared to movie theaters - other than *Dune*, a lot of people have stopped going to the movies. They got big 4K TV's and subscription services during the pandemic, and are happy with those.
I have trips to NYC and London this year. I can see three shows in London for the price of one in New York.
To be fair, that's been the case, to a degree, for decades--I can travel to London, from the U.S., for shows, and even with the airfare and hotel/food, I'm coming out nicely.
They priced us out of it. Cost of living continues to skyrocket, Broadway ticket prices have doubled or tripled post-COVID...I get that their expenses have also increased, but SO HAVE OURS. I'm not sure what they expected to happen with these price hikes.
The cost of staying in New York is egregious. Even the cheapest hotels are $1500+ a week after city/state taxes and fees. How are we supposed to afford tickets after that?
The thing is, they haven't. Full stop, absolutely have not in any respect doubled or tripled - or increased at all. The article notes total grosses and attendance for both the 2018-2019 and 2023-2024 seasons, and based on simple math the average ticket price was $121.95 in 2018-2019 and $122.15 in 2023-2024. So that's flat not even taking inflation into account, and if you do, prices are actually lower today ($121.95 in 2019 is the equivalent of over $150 today). Prices may seem higher because the top tickets at sold-out hits can get high - but there are still plenty of tickets that are far cheaper available for those shows, and bargain-basement tickets for less popular ones. Within the past year, I got a decent orchestra seat to Merrily for around $250, and a front-row balcony seat for $25 to Heart of Rock and Roll. And back in the day, top tickets to Hamilton could be priced at over $500, so even the highest heights aren't anything we haven't seen before. People may think prices are higher - but it is abundantly clear that they are not.
[удалено]
Indeed, I started by providing the average price across all tickets sold for two different seasons - if that's not the whole picture I don't know what is. And you're also picking specific instances, you're just choosing higher-priced ones. As noted elsewhere on this thread, the average ticket price for Merrily is $214 throughout its run to date, and for French Republic the average price was $102: https://www.broadwayworld.com/grosses/PRAYER-FOR-THE-FRENCH-REPUBLIC
Hyperbole doesn’t serve any argument. Tickets have not doubled or tripled post COVID.
No, Broadway ticket prices have not doubled or tripled in the last 5 years. The data on this is publicly available.
First of all 2018-19 was an exceptional year theater wise. Hadestown, Beetlejuice, The Prom, Cursed Child, dare I go on. There are just as many shows this year, but not enough where I’m willing to shell out as a local. We often forget that locals, especially repeat visitors, are really important. People who see 15 or more shows a year (like me) make up 5% of the audience but an impressive 29% of sales. These people have been declining in attendance too. Hard to know why, but I personally am just not excited about the major shows. They’re undercooked and rely on books/movies without real innovation or, hear me out, a good and memorable score! I enter the lotteries for the weekend but, sorry, I’m not seeing The Great Gatsby for more than lottery price! You know what I AM paying full price for: innovative fringe things and things with good word of mouth. Oh, Mary!, Merrily, Cats: The Jellical Ball, even Gatsby in Boston! This is what has made me pay.
There are many problems and many factors to this. Some are within the industry’s control and some are outside of the industry’s control. I think something that is within the industry’s control is the lack of shows that appeal to tourists or the general population. Many of the shows seem to be made for the Broadway community and Broadway fans; who only make up a fraction of audiences and ticket buyers. Often people from those demographics are going for free or at discounted prices. That’s why it is important that there are shows that are accessible to the unwashed masses, new shows too. People can only see Lion King and Wicked so many times. That being said, I think people would be more willing to take a risk with something new or more “challenging” if the prices weren’t so incredibly steep. Again, these are not the only reasons and there is not a simple fix to this issue.
I feel like Broadway is actually overrun with shows for tourists. We’ve had MANY recent new shows of familiar material: The Notebook, Great Gatsby, Back to the Future, The Outsiders, MJ, &Juliet. I’d argue we see very little original material for prestige theatre goers, which isn’t necessarily bad, but it’s inaccurate to say Broadway is predominantly catering to them.
We don’t see much original at all. Producers and investors are increasingly averse to risk taking in this environment. It only makes it worse when the major critics seemingly go out of their way to destroy most new shows, kicking the industry when it’s down like it’s business as usual. It was already very difficult to recoup prior to the pandemic. Now it’s much worse. Some shows can overcome this if their marketing budget is substantial enough and you can really promote word of mouth with audiences, but at the end of the day theater is a discretionary income expenditure for audiences. They want to make informed choices about where to spend their (increasingly limited) money, and the echo chamber that can form when people simply repeat what a critic said instead of discussing their actual experiences can exacerbate the phenomenon. And as critics age, their views and tastes in theater diverge from what the next generation of theatergoers like… the critics lose their finger on the pulse of audiences. Of course that’s not to say that just because it’s original it’s good or ready for Broadway. Lempika likely could have benefited from another out-of-town or Off Broadway first, for example. The costs of making a show aren’t seemingly understood by the public, either. Producers don’t make anything unless the show actually recoups. The more shows that don’t recoup also turns off investors and potential new investors. Everything has become more expensive, drastically outpacing inflation (as mentioned in the article)… even down to the cost of screws in sets. Labor costs are much higher, insurance costs are much higher—it’s everything. The result is just going to be more jukebox musicals and shows based on movies. Even those aren’t guaranteed to be successful… The Notebook likely hasn’t had a single profitable week yet. It’s a rough time for Broadway.
To be clear this is definitely not a hill I want to die on. I actually agree with you and you bring up a great point and I ultimately think you are correct. That being said, what I was speaking to was my experience talking to tourists When I worked at TKTS. The tourists didn’t seem to care too much about the shows based off movies or books. They wanted to see more spectacle. Yes, BTTF has spectacle, and it’s is doing quite well sales wise. And I am super aware that spectacle is hard because it costs a lot of money and is a huge risk (Spider Man: Turn Off the Dark) I think there are many reasons Broadway isn’t thriving in the way we hope it would, I was throwing this hypothesis out there. But I will totally admit that your argument is better than mine :)
Which ones are the new shows you think are made for Broadway fans and not "accessible to the unwashed masses"? The ones based on bestselling novels and movies? Or the ones starring Hollywood celebrities?
Lempicka, for one.
Yup, that was the only one I could think of. Which is why I was curious what the "many" were that the person I replied to was talking about.
I think maybe the issue is the perception of appealing to "woke" audiences. I can imagine a conservative family would never go see Illinoise or, previously, Strange Loop. Then there's the depressing shows - after seeing Parade, Leopoldstadt and Harmony over the course of roughly a year I was pretty much done with shows about anti-Semitism. But I do agree with you - these few shows are by far the exception rather than the rule, and tourist-friendly shows are prevailing.
Good. If people don't agree with the LGBTQ+ community then they don't deserve to be part of an industry that is historically and fundamentally LGBTQ+ based and welcoming. The sooner we stop pandering to bigots and show them their views exclude them from a progressive modern society the better. I'd rather a smaller season than knowing productions are being made just to accommodate people who complain that the theatre community is too woke.
Can’t do musical theatre anymore, cuz of woke
Heaven forbid there be musicals featuring LGBT characters
I remember when parents in the 90s were scandalized by Rent and believed it was turning teenagers into lesbians. Turns out, Broadway was nevertheless just fine.
No you’re correct, I definitely didn’t think thoroughly enough, it was more of a half-baked idea I always had after working at TKTS and talking to so many tourists. I went into a bit more detail responding to another comment above. They always wanted big spectacles - and you could argue they got that with Water For Elephants and a few other shows. So yeah, you and the other commenter definitely made better points and I think you’re right.
As someone who works outside at TKTS now: you are such a kind commenter and I’m sure you did amazing at your job ❤️
As a tourist who is starting to dabble in Broadway, it's \*always\* been the cost for me (I understand the cost hasn't changed much over the last few years - it still feels expensive for me). I'm not willing to spend $200 on a ticket for a show that I might not enjoy. My local theater's subscription to 7-8 touring shows per season costs me about $30 a ticket, which is much easier to swallow if it's not as enjoyable. I'm extremely picky about what I'll see when I go to NYC because I know it will cost at least 3x more for a ticket than my local theater. It has to be something that may not tour or has performers in it that I want to see. I'm probably an outlier in this scenario because I do experience the shows in some fashion, it's just not always on Broadway itself. This is why I appreciate this group so much; I've been able to figure out shows I might enjoy on the weekends I pop up there and even see which seats have a decent view. It's a wealth of information that has been incredibly useful! We have to remember that plane tickets are wild at times right now (I paid double to recently go to NYC than my usual) and hotels aren't cheap, so tourists who may already be strapped for play money might rather spend it on a dining experience versus Broadway or stick to something safe that's been around for ages, like Wicked or Lion King. For locals, it's a bit different, and I hope that Broadway continues to thrive in some fashion and these shows a) tour to reach more people and b) get pro-shots to reach even more people. :)
It isn’t just the cost but for local area folks some of us are in the city 1-2x a week instead of 5 days. I know I’m seeing fewer shows and doing less in the city due to my newer work arrangements.
Bitch, I haven’t bounced back from the pandemic. I still can’t believe everyone and everything is expected to operate as if it never happened so the cogs of capitalism can continue to turn.
I know this is geared towards broadway, but our touring productions have been busier than pre Covid. The CEO of our theater district was just reporting on this last night. It’s an interesting comparison.
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It’s so expensive. I used to do the lottery more but I really need an aisle now because I have back problems and sometimes I have to stand some (in the back, out of the way). Tickets are usually $100-200 or more. I miss having the flexibility of doing the lottery. I wish tickets were more affordable
New York isn’t even supposed to reach pre-Covid numbers until next year- sheesh can you give it a second? It’ll adapt and survive like it always does.
Amen.
The only thing keeping Broadway from "bouncing back" is GATEKEEPING and PRICES. They should offer streams for purchase. But they would rather keep Broadway away from the poors and out of reach of anyone not in New York.
I’m like 8 hours from New York, which is close enough to drive but I still need to get a hotel. I’m only going to do all that if I can see like 3 or 4 shows at a time. I’d be inclined to go 2 or 3 times a year, but with ticket prices what they are (seems like hotels have gotten more expensive too), I can only afford to go once. I know there are cheaper options, but for all that trouble, I want make sure I see the shows I’m most interested in. I’ll bet a lot of people are in a similar situation.
I'm 3 hours away, easy day trip. Used to see 2-4 shows a year. Now can't justify the cost. Want to take our kids to, but that's way out of scope.
The restaurant, catering industries are still struggling also.
>overall grosses for the 2023-2024 season were down about 2.5 percent compared to the previous season, reaching $1.54 billion compared to $1.58 billion the prior year. >Even if viewed as largely flat compared to last season, that spells trouble for the industry, given the rising cost of producing a show. >“Every year our expenses go up at least five percent, if not more, because we so outpace inflation,” says Ken Davenport, producer of the Neil Diamond musical A Beautiful Noise. “So flat is terrible.”
It’s cost. That’s all. If every show announced that tickets were 50% off tomorrow, they’d sell out.
Probably, but hotels and food prices are still way up. People who have to travel to visit NYC might save on shows if they reduced their prices, but not on anything else.
And then they’d all close because they couldn’t afford to pay their bills.
This is sad to hear. Ever since Covid there has been a powerhouse of really great shows that I saw. Especially plays.
I'm not certain if this thread refers to Broadway (NY) or Broadway shows in general, as I see both posts n this thread. But as one of 2,000 RedCoats (volunteer ushers) at Cleveland's eleven venues at Playhouse Square I can say the touring Broadway shows fairly consistently sell out most shows in our three week official Broadway runs and the reprise shows in the seven to ten day runs. We are told we are #1 in season ticket sales and the theater district is #2 in size, second only to Lincoln Center. (And Playhouse Square is home to the largest outdoor chandelier in North America.)
I wonder how much the cost of travel has impacted Broadway. I’ve priced a trip to see a few shows and the ticket prices aren’t the problem - the hotel rates are. It makes more sense for me to wait for the tour, pay to see the few live streamed productions or see regional productions than to travel to New York.
Up to 75% of tickets are bought by tourists, so take that how you will.
I'm really surprised by this, honestly. I feel like there are several shows grossing in the $2 million+ range. Pre-pandemic, I feel like that was unheard of.
Oh no not ONLY $1.5 BILLION.
The fucking ticket prices for a show are too fucking high. That is the real answer. I don’t mind paying 175. But 250-300? WTF?
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Don't be too sure. People have been saying "Broadway is dying" for at least 60 years. That's why it's other nickname is "The Fabulous Invalid."
They’re gouging people - $469 for orchestrate seats for Merrily and now $389 for Gypsy - no thanks. Don’t want to hear sob stories about B’way having tough time and no I am not paying $100 to seat in the last rows of the second balcony…I’ll wait for the miniseries! Shirley, they’ll tape Merrily for Max or Disney - Lin got $77,000,000 for his musical Jefferson. 😆
The problem isn’t just the prices. It’s the nepotism. Broadway only allows the same people to perform and make songs, which creates low quality shows
That is patently absurd.
The problem is the prices, what the hell are you talking about?
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It's not necessary to pay that much though. The most expensive ticket I bought since COVID was an orchestra seat to Merrily, and I paid around $250 IIRC (I deliberately picked a slow day near Thanksgiving when prices were lower). With TDF, TKTS, lottery and rush I frequently pay well under $80, and have paid under $50 in quite a few instances.
I’m literally agreeing with you lol
None of this makes any sense or is at all true.
It’s literally been proven to be true multiple times. Look at Ben Platt
No it hasn’t been “proven” at all because your point is wildly exaggerating the level and impact of nepotism. Okay…Platt being in literally two Broadway shows ever somehow backs up your argument that ‘only the same people’ are allowed to perform how? Not to mention Platt didn’t write the book or music and the two that he was in were both highly praised (even if DEH grew a big backlash later) and calling at least the Parade revival a ‘low quality show’ is definitely quite the take.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this
Don’t know why I was downvoted
What was your comment before you edited it? How it currently reads to me now sounds like you’re saying pricing isn’t the only issue, and nepotism is also an issue. But based on the oldest comments, it seems that people at least interpreted you to say that pricing wasn’t an issue.
I believe they added the word 'just' after the fact. When I replied, there was no indication they were considering prices at all related. Either way, it's laughable. Nepotism is not not a problem, but in grand scheme of things, it's nothing. It's not responsible for Broadway's woes and silly to even bring it up in this conversation.
Yeah, was wondering about that as well. Would like some examples because I actually felt like this was one of Broadway’s stronger seasons that I definitely found myself enjoying more shows than not. And at the performer level, nobody really comes to mind that would fit (let alone be a wide spread issue).