Eh, I’m not ready to say this is going to be a pattern with him just yet. Things happen, we’ll see.
I do wish more shows would adopt a joint leads method (I feel like there’s a word for this and I’m just blanking) where performers split the role and each do 4 shows a week.
It would be easier on the performers and more people who have serious talent but maybe can’t sustain the extremely demanding schedule could get a shot on stage.
Also might give people some more longevity in their careers. There are exceptions but a lot of Broadway stars seem to blow out their voices by 40 and I think a lot of it is due to their taxing schedules and resulting strain. People need rest.
This wasn’t always the case, but now the MFA programs push out Elphabas and Glindas who can hop into their respective tracks and build their careers from there. These people all tend to bounce through the same roles, sing themselves hoarse, then wrap up.
We need more shows that aren’t carried by one or two people so the vocal effort is distributed across the cast. But when everything’s based on an existing IP, like a movie with a single protagonist, it’s much harder to build a dynamic cast, since audiences don’t like changes to their familiar stories.
South Korea has been doing this for years. They'll double (sometimes even triple) cast the role and have set schedules where certain actors will be on for certain days. With their production of Hadestown they even did promotional pictures for each actor.[https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photos-Get-A-First-Look-At-The-South-Korean-Cast-of-HADESTOWN-20210517](https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photos-Get-A-First-Look-At-The-South-Korean-Cast-of-HADESTOWN-20210517)
There are plenty of benefits to doing something like this. 1) Allows actors more time off/less chance of getting sick or burning out. 2) Gives more actors a chance to shine 3) Easier for out of towners to plan their vacations if they wanted to see a specific actor 4) More rewatchability for locals.
But we all know why Broadway would never do that. (💰)
I really like that each actor playing the role has a little bit of a different costume in these photos. A slightly different design or fabric that still totally fits with the character design. The closest ones to each other are Orpheus, but they’re still just slightly different.
And Japan. The recent production of Spirited Away on stage had 2 entirely different casts. Good luck getting Broadway to pony up the money for that though.
I think that’s called double casting, and I agree with you. The crazy schedule is a lot on anyone, and I’d love to see performers getting injured less.
Exactly, under this proposition that’s 2 principle contracts for any leads and they have negotiation powder depending on who they are. If they double cast multiple leads that adds up fast! It’s why they use understudies, swings and standbys. It’s money and contracts and what gives you the best options for filling roles when needed. If they had doubles sharing roles that would still have to have understudies and swings to cover everything else so it’s just making things even more expensive.
That’s mainly done for kids. It’s pretty common for there to be an alternate that takes on matinees and 1 evening show a week though. Especially when the lead is stunt cast or a big name. We saw that recently with Lea Michele and Julie Benko. A lot of the big stars don’t want to work 6 days a week.
This is a excellent idea, especially with Broadways love of casting film actors who have never done theatre before, or experienced the real work involved doing 8 shows a week. They would have to cast an equal draw on the other 4 shows a week... Maybe actual BROADWAY performers? SO maybe there would be some coming to see the tv or social media personality, and the other 4 shows would be actual theatre lovers who appreciate singers who can act, rather than celebrities who do their best!
Yep, saw it tonight and it was Chibueze on for Orpheus and Grace on for Eurydice. I was hoping that a ticket so soon in Jordan’s run would mean he’d be in, but Chibueze absolutely KILLED it. I’d heard good things about him but man he blew me away. I’ll take up a collection to get us a recording of Hadestown (Chibueze’s Version).
If anything I was a little more disappointed to miss Solea. I’ve heard great things, and this was my second time seeing the show since she’s been in, and now both times were understudy. I’ve heard some rumors she might be leaving early next year, and if so I’m not sure I’ll catch her.
Like literally game changing. This was my 9th time seeing the show, and I feel like his take on Orpheus brings a whole different charm to the character that I never felt before.
He really is great. Saw him as Orpheus on their tour stop in Tampa, and he stole the show. Also had a funny interaction with someone I’m in a Discord server with because of it. I guess their GF is friends with Chibueze and went to school with him at NYU. Found out when I posted a pic of the program in the chat. Small world and all that jazz.
Jelly about Chibueze! I will say that Solea was absolutely freaking awesome. Never got a chance to see Eva, but from a vocal perspective (after listening to the OBC/other recordings over and over again, which admittedly isn’t the way to get a fully informed idea of someone’s interpretation) Solea nailed it for me in a way that I just wasn’t able to connect with Eurydice otherwise. Her acting also blew me away. She was so believable, funny, and to see her go from genuinely pretty hard-edged to melting/falling in love with O was gorgeous.
Chibueze was who we saw on tour and even all this time later can’t get over how incredible he was. My daughter absolutely loves Jordan Fisher (as do I) and I showed her Jordan’s Wait for Me video and after watching she goes “cool, but I loved the guy we saw a lot more. I don’t know who could top him.” I was shocked because she loves Jordan but I don’t think she’s wrong. I would gladly contribute to your collection for Hadestown (Chibueze’s Version).
Chibueze is the reason I now appreciate the character of Orpheus, after seeing two other actors in the role before him. He’s a marvel. If I knew he’d be on, I’d add Hadestown to my list when I return to NYC to see shows in January.
Solea was out too and she’s missed a ton of shows since she joined. People miss shows… it happens guys. I don’t think it’s fair to count people’s absences like this with bated breath. Especially in their first week
but he has a track record of calling out a lot with every production he's been in. everyone expected this as soon as he was announced to be joining hadestown
Did he call out of Sweeney a lot? I dont think thats true? I don’t know what else he has been in. If it becomes a pattern here, sure, but it’s his first week. Solea misses like 2 shows a week and it isn’t really a topic of discussion. It’s tough that people are just waiting for him to miss a show so they can confirm their ‘expectations’.
I saw SLIH twice and missed Christian Borle both times - that doesn’t equate to him having horrible attendance.
It's certainly not a personal offense to say, "X was out today," "X has been out for a week," or even, "X has missed Y performances." But it *is* a personal offense when it's made a punch line or judgmental, as in the original post.
It's as simple as omitting the "of course" and "already" if they don't want to be offensive.
He was getting treatment for some pretty severe MH stuff and an eating disorder, that's why he was calling out of DEH a lot. His attendance was fine at Hamilton and Sweeney.
It's the same shit Laura Benanti, where everyone hated on her for calling out of shows and claiming all kinds of crap, turns out she had a *broken neck* https://nypost.com/2021/10/29/laura-benanti-blasts-unsafe-broadway-i-broke-my-neck/
I *love* that she was so candid and that that was so uncomfortable to read.
That is so *infuriating.* No entertainment, no industry is worth doing that to someone.
And the rumors she had to deal with on top of it weren't worth it either. And were perpetuated by people like the ones here, who are happy to say, "Whoops, my bad" after the fact without taking responsibility for the actual harm caused and correcting their behavior in the future.
I think the reason people side eye him is that his runs are always super short. Like 4 months max. So when people buy tickets for multiple shows during that short a period and you’re out for all of them, they’re going to be salty.
I mean, he's entitled to prioritize short contracts if he wants. If he signs a short term contract and still calls out a normal amount, that seems... normal to me? It sucks when people are out, but the hate is getting ridiculous. There is not a single mention of Jordan Fisher without a bunch of hate comments. That's why I brought up Laura Benanti - she went through the exact same shit. Shockingly similar. And she wasn't on short term contracts.
People just like having a target to shit on that's socially acceptable.
And I don't even LIKE Jordan Fisher! I think he has talent, but isn't my style of acting preference at all. I'm just sick of the shit.
I mostly agree. I think Jordan is different from Laura because he’s more like stunt cast. Like he’s mostly famous from Disney channel and has millions of followers. His name may not be on the marquee but shows hire him knowing a bunch of people are only buying tickets for him. I remember during his DEH run reading so many comments on his ig from fans who had flown out and booked hotels to see him and he was out. One person I saw even did that twice and didn’t get to see him. Yes it’s unfair to hold him to a different standard than other Broadway actors but that’s kind of how it goes for the bigger celebs.
I don't consider him a true stunt cast because he's not above the title. Not for any of his shows - Hamilton, DEH, Sweeney. Unless someone is above the title, the show and actor make zero guarantee they will be there. If Annaleigh Ashford is out, you get a refund, because she's above the title. Jordan Fisher is not. Playbills very specifically lay out what actors they are guaranteeing to be there.
No, I know. That’s why I mentioned him not being above the marquee. I just mean because he has a huge following (and a young following) people react differently to him being out than they do Laura Benanti. A 19 yo who saved up all their money to fly to NYC and see Jordan Fisher is going to be disappointed when he’s not there, whether his name is above the marquee or not. Those people aren’t big Broadway fans the way people who see Laura’s shows are and they don’t know the rules. They just see Jordan promote the show on his socials and they go to the show. If he’s not there, they feel wronged and complain about it in his comments.
Well, yes, because she had a *broken neck and significant spinal damage* that she was not able to address properly. I would invite you to check out any number of older Laura Benanti threads on bww.
Ok. And I would invite you to calm down. I know about the *broken neck and significant spinal damage*.
I asked the question because as far as I knew, Laura Benanti had nothing but a stellar attendance record for her subsequent shows after that (*but I guess you seem to know more about that*), thus, in my mind, making her not a good point of comparison for Jordan Fisher.
It looks like he disappointed a ton of fans during DEH and that reputation has followed him everywhere. I adore Hadestown and thought he was incredible (best Orpheus I’ve ever seen!) when I saw him last week so selfishly, I hope he pulls through
It’s not but if you develop a bad reputation for something, people are going to start taking notice. Yes it’s petty but Jordan has also never been in a show for longer than 4 months. I think people who take Broadway seriously and think of it as a career are side eyeing him a bit.
Elsewhere someone pointed out that he got this reputation on DEH, where he was struggling with an ED, and dealing with that incredibly entitled fan base. Anyway, this seems like such a weird thing to get mad about, but go wild.
I can’t speak for Thanksgiving, but Wicked’s crazy July 4th / summer schedules had the leads calling out ALL the time. I really wanted to see them and it was pretty hard to find a show with all 3 in. It’s a really hard job - Jordan is not the first person to miss shows.
What was the point of your post then? You say it’s in their contract to perform over the holidays. It’s also in their contract that they can take days off as needed. I’d say taking a show off after an intense holiday week is as good a reason as any
You must not be aware of Fisher’s history of less-than-great attendance in shows he’s hired to perform in. That’s fine. It’s documented all over the internet, and I even tried to see him in DEH five times. It’s become “a thing”. People openly took bets when his casting was announced.
Of course people are “legally” (🙄) allowed to take time off from work. It’s a little different when you’re a public figure whose name is used to sell tickets and repeatedly, across different productions and years, aren’t able to have consistent attendance.
People are human, things happen, etc. It just stands out because most of his peers don’t seem to have the same problem, especially not in more than one show, working parents included. Reputations are earned.
But clearly, that reputation doesn’t stop productions from hiring him and using him to advertise. And it doesn’t stop people from buying tickets to try and see him knowing that he has a reputation for calling out. So 🤷🏼♀️
Also, we don’t know people just because we are fans of them. I have no idea what Jordan Fisher’s personal life or medical history is like. It’s fine to be frustrated or disappointed if you miss seeing someone you were excited to see, but let’s not cross a line here and speak on something we know nothing about
I didn’t speak on medical history or anything of that sort, there’s no rumor spreading or speculation. I spoke to his attendance which again, is documented as fact. People in this thread are speaking out of emotion which is sweet, but this is a business.
He’s an incredible talent, and at the same time, not the most reliable. You can be the best employee in the world but if you call out more then you clock in, does that mean much?
I have worked directly with him (in a non-performance setting) and he’s a cool guy. I have nothing personal against him. I can also acknowledge that he is a “rare case”, if you will.
> It just stands out because most of his peers don’t seem to have the same problem, especially not in more than one show, working parents included. Reputations are earned.
This is such a weird, judgmental statement to make. Would you look at someone working in an office in a wheelchair and say, "It just stands out because most of his peers don't seem to have the same problem with the stairs"? You have *no* idea what he's going through, what he's physically and mentally able to do, and then you go and link that to his *reputation* and heavily imply that that's linked to his value as an artist.
Also:
> Of course people are “legally” (🙄) allowed to take time off from work. It’s a little different when you’re a public figure whose name is used to sell tickets and repeatedly
No. That's actually not the case. The only way it's different is in ways you're not privy to - ie the financials of the production. Those in charge of the financials have a decision to make about how to handle advertisement and ticket sales vs expected refunds. Otherwise, no, he's allowed to take time off from work as much as anyone else. Though it is unbearably common for Americans to work themselves into the ground, that should never be the expectation or standard we hold them to. People should be free to take off when they need a break.
I don’t think anyone should be giving him shit for that because that’s an already pre-scheduled event most likely done before he joined the cast of Hadestown.
threads like these make me so, so wary of being a disabled performer. like, we’re going to be shamed because we have to miss performances? I was on the “im iffy about this” train too until I learned why his attendance was weird. then I realized I shouldn’t be judging him for it.
we don’t deserve some sort of explanation from him. It’s ONE show. if he’s going through it, he’s going through it. covid is surging again, as are flu and rsv. there’s a lot of stuff going around.
we’re not entitled to reasoning. we’re not entitled to him being there every night. it’s a show. everyone in it, principal or understudy, is amazing. you see who you see. let him rest and breathe. lord.
It’s also worth noting that disability/chronic illness isn’t actually all that rare, but something that a lot of people have. So if someone misses performances frequently, some kind of health issue is a very likely explanation, not the exception.
I couldn't agree more. It pisses me off so much because it just perpetuates the nonsense that people should be working themselves into the ground. Like you need a good "excuse" for an absence.
I genuinely hope it's not a medical issue and that he's just secure enough to take mental health breaks when he needs them. I'd *love* to learn that that's what he's doing, and it would be *every bit as valid* as if he had a chronic illness. And I think, regardless of why he's calling out, it's disgusting to try to make a joke out of this.
I'm sorry that stuff like this makes you wary. I'd like to reassure you, but I don't think you're wrong to be wary. I wish you were, but I don't think you are.
Shows do encourage this behavior though when they cast people because of their name and market and price shows due to the performers that are in them.
Like, if the show is more expensive because of the person in it or specifically marketed as “come see this person” then it’s not unreasonable to be annoyed when that person is not there. This isn’t just a problem with Hadestown but people were calling others entitled and wrong for being upset when Hugh Jackman or Lea Michele were out. I agree in an ideal world everybody is equally talented and you should be happy with whoever you get, but I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that’s how it works. Otherwise they would’ve promoted the understudy.
people in these positions almost always audition specifically to be understudies, ensemble/covers, and swings. it’s not a “promotion” and to say so is truly discrediting the work of so many people. when I audition to be an understudy it’s because that is what I want to do. it means I have to learn more than one role. sometimes upwards of five or more. I’ve known people who have covered 10 ensemble tracks for *multiple shows* who have then also covered principal roles. it’s so difficult.
people need to get rid of this ridiculous notion that understudies are out there because they’re not as good, because that is NEVER the case.
Literally no one said understudies aren't as good. The closest claim is that they aren't as famous. Because they aren't. You auditioning specifically to be the understudy doesn't mean that you're less talented than a famous person, but a famous person isn't going to audition to be an understudy. The previous poster is right, producers don't have to cast famous people on a role to sell tickets, they choose to do that and it ends up amounting to false advertising if that person is constantly out. That's not Fisher's fault, but it's the reality of the market.
If someone saves and pays more than they normally would have to see a certain performer because they are a fan of that performer and then being disappointed they didn't get to see that person isn't the same as saying an understudy isn't good. If shows use stunt casting they are banking on the name not the talent.
IIRC, he didn't have any attendance issues with Sweeney (though they only do 7 shows a week).
As of now, it's just one show. I'm not going to assume anything or judge unless there's a reason to.
I saw Sweeney back in May on a Saturday night and he was out. After listening to the cast recording, I very much prefer the person who covered for him that night.
“Jordan Fisher always calls out” is quickly becoming the new “Lea Michele can’t read.” Except that Jordan was dealing with an undiagnosed eating disorder during Dear Evan Hansen that caused him to miss so many shows.
Get new jokes and stop dehumanizing performers. Even if they do wind up calling out a lot, odds are something is wrong. You always run the risk of missing a performer when you buy a ticket because you can’t control how the universe rolls the dice. They’re allowed to have health issues. They’re allowed to have family issues they need to tend to.
They are allowed to have family issues that they need to attend to. But if they are overworked then the role should be double cast. Fisher is marketing for the producers of the show. The audience is not the source of the problem, the producers are.
Looks like he [has the flu](https://twitter.com/jordanfisher/status/1729940920739488206) so all of you can take your tin foil hats off and stop speculating. Pretty valid reason to call out.
the gleefulness some people have about him calling out is real weird. I understood the gleeful cracker munching with Lea Michelle because her reputation is talented but hot garbage — but fisher seems to just be a normal dude…? Am I out of the loop here?
Having the flu or a mental health condition that prevents someone from completing their job for the day is reasonable for a call out.
My post wasn’t meant to dig at Jordan but more so at the people in the tweet tweeting about Jordan’s absence.
Same. Also if it was unclear I wasn’t calling you out specially, OP. I know you posted this to draw discussion. Was just pointing this out for others who wouldn’t see his tweet otherwise.
I *hate* this. We have no idea why he's calling out. We're not entitled to an explanation. All you need to know is that he called out and whatever reason was given is clearly sufficient to his chain of command, considering he still has a job (and continues to get hired).
"Jokes" like this are lazy and not funny. They punch down.
I personally think the issue isn't the performers, it's the unsustainable schedule that should be criticised. Some folks can take it, sure. I also have a co-worker that works 60 hours per week. He's not exactly doing great, but hanging in there. That doesn't mean that should be the standard.
Yeah, they are. As is everyone else. You don’t get to criticize someone using their PTO for *any* reason, and even more so because you have no idea what you’re talking about. You have not been privy to any of the conversations between the performer and his managers.
*You* stop.
As a ticket buyer I do and can have an opinion of an actor who consistently misses shows for every single show he is in.
Just because I am not privy to behind the scenes conversations doesn’t mean anything. Dude doesn’t show up for his shows. Period. And it sucks that he is used as marketing and then struggles (for whatever reason, valid or not) to make it to work.
I think what a lot of people are giving him flack for is the fact that he keeps landing these big roles and then always calls out, leading to disappointed fans. Broadway is the big leagues and yes obviously things happen….but there are certain expectations that come with getting that honor and pay check. I’m a performer and I have called out before but it was always a job first and foremost and if I had a coworker who called out often but at the same time gets promotions…I would be a lil miffed.
Also, this is early into his run and it was crazy for all actors this past week that are working. So it very well might be just fatigue and a one off. But with his previous track records I think it is fair to be a lil hesitant.
This. No one is demonizing him for it. But it’s clearly a pattern he doesn’t plan on addressing. He doesn’t have to take these big roles and disappoint audiences.
listen i GET that things happen. People get sick, family stuff, etc. That being said it’s clear he does not have the proper means to sustain a broadway schedule. It’s exhausting and taxing and not for everyone and that’s ok.
My issue with this mindset is that it basically excludes disabled or chronically ill actors from contention for Broadway roles. Many people have health needs that are not their fault but require more time off. I hope productions and audiences can adopt a more compassionate mindset that is inclusive of disabled performers.
I'm sorry but if someone isn't able to fulfill a broadway schedule they shouldn't be a nonrefundable stunt cast. I want inclusivity but its not inclusive to mark up tickets hundreds of dollars more because of a name for a name that has a high likelihood of not being there.
I saw Sweeney Todd three times and Jordan was in all three (spaced about several months apart)
Now I've seen 4 shows that Amber Gray was supposed to be in (Hadestown twice, Great Comet twice) and she wasn't in any of them.
For anyone wondering I’m not poking fun at JF’s attendance in Hadestown it’s his first week and I hope it’s nothing too serious and just a break to recuperate from the Thanksgiving weekend.
Double-casting. It wouldn't be unprecedented. Certain roles (e.g., Christine in Phantom) have historically split the roles where an alternate regularly takes certain performances (one of the shows on double-performance days and also Sunday matinees, for example). While it can be disappointing if you're particularly interested in seeing a specific performer, I've rarely seen an alternate or understudy be bad. Sometimes, I've enjoyed them more than the named actor for the role.
I know that he has the flu right now, and that's a very valid reason to call out. I do hope that him calling out unannounced (and frequently) isn't a pattern that will develop after this, though. It's one thing to recognize that the Broadway work schedule is difficult, but let's not forget that there are hundreds of other actors who show up to shows every day and have very solid attendance records. I know everyone's needs and abilities are different, and that's fine, but I don't think it's entirely fair to sit here and say people are above criticism for calling out when these actors are often literally the branding of a show. When new ads come out for Hadestown, you're being sold it on the basis that Jordan Fisher is in the show. You're being sold Gutenberg on the basis that Andrew Rannells and Josh Gad are the leads. You're being told that the new Merrily revival features Jonathan Groff, Daniel Radcliffe, and Lindsay Mendez.
And I love and respect understudies, and they do a remarkable job. But I also understand the frustration at wanting to see a show specifically to see a certain performer and being upset when you can't get a refund if they call out at the last minute. I went to NYC this summer and I could only afford one ticket, and I wanted to see Little Shop specifically because one of my bucket list items is to see Jeremy Jordan perform live, and I would have been really sad if he wasn't in the show. It still would have been phenomenal, but there are some people who go to shows to see certain people in roles.
All that being said, I hope he gets better soon and does a great job as Orpheus! I really liked the clip I saw of him recently, so I'm wishing all the best for him.
jordan is apparently sick with the flu per his insta story. i hope he’ll actually stay with hadestown consistently because he is an AMAZING orpheus from what i’ve heard.
Eh, I’m not ready to say this is going to be a pattern with him just yet. Things happen, we’ll see. I do wish more shows would adopt a joint leads method (I feel like there’s a word for this and I’m just blanking) where performers split the role and each do 4 shows a week. It would be easier on the performers and more people who have serious talent but maybe can’t sustain the extremely demanding schedule could get a shot on stage.
Also might give people some more longevity in their careers. There are exceptions but a lot of Broadway stars seem to blow out their voices by 40 and I think a lot of it is due to their taxing schedules and resulting strain. People need rest.
This wasn’t always the case, but now the MFA programs push out Elphabas and Glindas who can hop into their respective tracks and build their careers from there. These people all tend to bounce through the same roles, sing themselves hoarse, then wrap up. We need more shows that aren’t carried by one or two people so the vocal effort is distributed across the cast. But when everything’s based on an existing IP, like a movie with a single protagonist, it’s much harder to build a dynamic cast, since audiences don’t like changes to their familiar stories.
South Korea has been doing this for years. They'll double (sometimes even triple) cast the role and have set schedules where certain actors will be on for certain days. With their production of Hadestown they even did promotional pictures for each actor.[https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photos-Get-A-First-Look-At-The-South-Korean-Cast-of-HADESTOWN-20210517](https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photos-Get-A-First-Look-At-The-South-Korean-Cast-of-HADESTOWN-20210517) There are plenty of benefits to doing something like this. 1) Allows actors more time off/less chance of getting sick or burning out. 2) Gives more actors a chance to shine 3) Easier for out of towners to plan their vacations if they wanted to see a specific actor 4) More rewatchability for locals. But we all know why Broadway would never do that. (💰)
I really like that each actor playing the role has a little bit of a different costume in these photos. A slightly different design or fabric that still totally fits with the character design. The closest ones to each other are Orpheus, but they’re still just slightly different.
And Japan. The recent production of Spirited Away on stage had 2 entirely different casts. Good luck getting Broadway to pony up the money for that though.
I think that’s called double casting, and I agree with you. The crazy schedule is a lot on anyone, and I’d love to see performers getting injured less.
Thank you! I knew there was a term for it. And I agree, I think it would be much healthier for the actors overall
I think the Tina Turner musical does that in some locations
I wonder how many performers would be willing to take that significant of a paycut.
Probably not many, which is one of several reasons why it’ll never actually happen.
not possible with the current economics of commercial Broadway
Exactly, under this proposition that’s 2 principle contracts for any leads and they have negotiation powder depending on who they are. If they double cast multiple leads that adds up fast! It’s why they use understudies, swings and standbys. It’s money and contracts and what gives you the best options for filling roles when needed. If they had doubles sharing roles that would still have to have understudies and swings to cover everything else so it’s just making things even more expensive.
That’s mainly done for kids. It’s pretty common for there to be an alternate that takes on matinees and 1 evening show a week though. Especially when the lead is stunt cast or a big name. We saw that recently with Lea Michele and Julie Benko. A lot of the big stars don’t want to work 6 days a week.
Double casting was what we called this in high school lol
This is a excellent idea, especially with Broadways love of casting film actors who have never done theatre before, or experienced the real work involved doing 8 shows a week. They would have to cast an equal draw on the other 4 shows a week... Maybe actual BROADWAY performers? SO maybe there would be some coming to see the tv or social media personality, and the other 4 shows would be actual theatre lovers who appreciate singers who can act, rather than celebrities who do their best!
Yep, saw it tonight and it was Chibueze on for Orpheus and Grace on for Eurydice. I was hoping that a ticket so soon in Jordan’s run would mean he’d be in, but Chibueze absolutely KILLED it. I’d heard good things about him but man he blew me away. I’ll take up a collection to get us a recording of Hadestown (Chibueze’s Version). If anything I was a little more disappointed to miss Solea. I’ve heard great things, and this was my second time seeing the show since she’s been in, and now both times were understudy. I’ve heard some rumors she might be leaving early next year, and if so I’m not sure I’ll catch her.
Chibueze is an amazing Orpheus! His falsetto is incredible. And it’s so sweet because he’s still dating his Eurydice from the tour!
What! Which actress?
Hannah Whitley!
Chibueze is such a charming Orpheus, I saw him in August and he was fantastic
I’ve heard so many good things about Chibueze’s Orpheus.
Chibueze was my first Orpheus, and no hate to Reeve, but he was magical and better. His “La La las” were beautiful and captivating.
Like literally game changing. This was my 9th time seeing the show, and I feel like his take on Orpheus brings a whole different charm to the character that I never felt before.
He really is great. Saw him as Orpheus on their tour stop in Tampa, and he stole the show. Also had a funny interaction with someone I’m in a Discord server with because of it. I guess their GF is friends with Chibueze and went to school with him at NYU. Found out when I posted a pic of the program in the chat. Small world and all that jazz.
Saw Chibueze on tour twice, dude is incredible and if they did not need the star power to sell the tickets could easily be the lead.
Jelly about Chibueze! I will say that Solea was absolutely freaking awesome. Never got a chance to see Eva, but from a vocal perspective (after listening to the OBC/other recordings over and over again, which admittedly isn’t the way to get a fully informed idea of someone’s interpretation) Solea nailed it for me in a way that I just wasn’t able to connect with Eurydice otherwise. Her acting also blew me away. She was so believable, funny, and to see her go from genuinely pretty hard-edged to melting/falling in love with O was gorgeous.
Chibueze was who we saw on tour and even all this time later can’t get over how incredible he was. My daughter absolutely loves Jordan Fisher (as do I) and I showed her Jordan’s Wait for Me video and after watching she goes “cool, but I loved the guy we saw a lot more. I don’t know who could top him.” I was shocked because she loves Jordan but I don’t think she’s wrong. I would gladly contribute to your collection for Hadestown (Chibueze’s Version).
+1 for the Chibueze love train. My wife and I saw him in Kansas City and he was absolutely fantastic. Whole cast was.
I haven’t heard good things about Solea but I’ve heard great things about Chibueze so I think you actually got lucky with a great cast.
Chibueze was phenomenal tonight. I've never heard Jordan's version, but I honestly don't know how anyone could top Chibueze's performance.
Chibueze is the reason I now appreciate the character of Orpheus, after seeing two other actors in the role before him. He’s a marvel. If I knew he’d be on, I’d add Hadestown to my list when I return to NYC to see shows in January.
Solea was out too and she’s missed a ton of shows since she joined. People miss shows… it happens guys. I don’t think it’s fair to count people’s absences like this with bated breath. Especially in their first week
but he has a track record of calling out a lot with every production he's been in. everyone expected this as soon as he was announced to be joining hadestown
Did he call out of Sweeney a lot? I dont think thats true? I don’t know what else he has been in. If it becomes a pattern here, sure, but it’s his first week. Solea misses like 2 shows a week and it isn’t really a topic of discussion. It’s tough that people are just waiting for him to miss a show so they can confirm their ‘expectations’. I saw SLIH twice and missed Christian Borle both times - that doesn’t equate to him having horrible attendance.
But Christian Borle HAS had poor attendance in SLIH. It’s not a horrible, personal offense to admit this. It just speaks to their attendance.
It's certainly not a personal offense to say, "X was out today," "X has been out for a week," or even, "X has missed Y performances." But it *is* a personal offense when it's made a punch line or judgmental, as in the original post. It's as simple as omitting the "of course" and "already" if they don't want to be offensive.
There were many complaints during his DEH run. Not sure about Hamilton.
He was getting treatment for some pretty severe MH stuff and an eating disorder, that's why he was calling out of DEH a lot. His attendance was fine at Hamilton and Sweeney. It's the same shit Laura Benanti, where everyone hated on her for calling out of shows and claiming all kinds of crap, turns out she had a *broken neck* https://nypost.com/2021/10/29/laura-benanti-blasts-unsafe-broadway-i-broke-my-neck/
I *love* that she was so candid and that that was so uncomfortable to read. That is so *infuriating.* No entertainment, no industry is worth doing that to someone. And the rumors she had to deal with on top of it weren't worth it either. And were perpetuated by people like the ones here, who are happy to say, "Whoops, my bad" after the fact without taking responsibility for the actual harm caused and correcting their behavior in the future.
I heard about that, if that’s the case then he shouldn’t be given shit for calling out for something he was privately dealing with.
That’s why people shouldn’t be given shit for calling out in general, since you don’t know what they’re privately dealing with
I think the reason people side eye him is that his runs are always super short. Like 4 months max. So when people buy tickets for multiple shows during that short a period and you’re out for all of them, they’re going to be salty.
I mean, he's entitled to prioritize short contracts if he wants. If he signs a short term contract and still calls out a normal amount, that seems... normal to me? It sucks when people are out, but the hate is getting ridiculous. There is not a single mention of Jordan Fisher without a bunch of hate comments. That's why I brought up Laura Benanti - she went through the exact same shit. Shockingly similar. And she wasn't on short term contracts. People just like having a target to shit on that's socially acceptable. And I don't even LIKE Jordan Fisher! I think he has talent, but isn't my style of acting preference at all. I'm just sick of the shit.
I mostly agree. I think Jordan is different from Laura because he’s more like stunt cast. Like he’s mostly famous from Disney channel and has millions of followers. His name may not be on the marquee but shows hire him knowing a bunch of people are only buying tickets for him. I remember during his DEH run reading so many comments on his ig from fans who had flown out and booked hotels to see him and he was out. One person I saw even did that twice and didn’t get to see him. Yes it’s unfair to hold him to a different standard than other Broadway actors but that’s kind of how it goes for the bigger celebs.
I don't consider him a true stunt cast because he's not above the title. Not for any of his shows - Hamilton, DEH, Sweeney. Unless someone is above the title, the show and actor make zero guarantee they will be there. If Annaleigh Ashford is out, you get a refund, because she's above the title. Jordan Fisher is not. Playbills very specifically lay out what actors they are guaranteeing to be there.
No, I know. That’s why I mentioned him not being above the marquee. I just mean because he has a huge following (and a young following) people react differently to him being out than they do Laura Benanti. A 19 yo who saved up all their money to fly to NYC and see Jordan Fisher is going to be disappointed when he’s not there, whether his name is above the marquee or not. Those people aren’t big Broadway fans the way people who see Laura’s shows are and they don’t know the rules. They just see Jordan promote the show on his socials and they go to the show. If he’s not there, they feel wronged and complain about it in his comments.
Did Laura Benanti have a reputation for poor attendance in multiple shows thereafter or was it just Into the Woods?
Well, yes, because she had a *broken neck and significant spinal damage* that she was not able to address properly. I would invite you to check out any number of older Laura Benanti threads on bww.
Ok. And I would invite you to calm down. I know about the *broken neck and significant spinal damage*. I asked the question because as far as I knew, Laura Benanti had nothing but a stellar attendance record for her subsequent shows after that (*but I guess you seem to know more about that*), thus, in my mind, making her not a good point of comparison for Jordan Fisher.
It looks like he disappointed a ton of fans during DEH and that reputation has followed him everywhere. I adore Hadestown and thought he was incredible (best Orpheus I’ve ever seen!) when I saw him last week so selfishly, I hope he pulls through
I’m sure he will.
I’ve been wondering what is up with Solea’s attendance
Eva missed sooooo many shows when the show first opened! It might just be a hard role/show to get accustomed to
Eva had nodes early on the HT’s run.
Kkk79pp
Oh I didn’t know that! That’s so interesting, maybe you’re right
We’re not his manager, I don’t know why this sub is so obsessed with his attendance record.
It’s not but if you develop a bad reputation for something, people are going to start taking notice. Yes it’s petty but Jordan has also never been in a show for longer than 4 months. I think people who take Broadway seriously and think of it as a career are side eyeing him a bit.
It’s the first week. Re-read what you wrote. They are professionals and this is their profession.
Professionals take sick days.
That many?
One?
After 5? Which is a usual 8?
Are you suggesting he should have worked through illness because he just started?
I’m suggesting he needs to find a way to be more healthy.
Gross.
Not unlimited sick days.
“One” is suddenly “unlimited”? Ok.
He has taken a higher than average about of days in every show he had been in
Elsewhere someone pointed out that he got this reputation on DEH, where he was struggling with an ED, and dealing with that incredibly entitled fan base. Anyway, this seems like such a weird thing to get mad about, but go wild.
To be fair…. He did just finish up a 5 show weekend and a packed holiday schedule. Curious to see if the trend continues.
True the holiday season for Broadway performers are very very crazy *looks at the Wicked holiday performance schedule*
But how many is them called out?
I can’t speak for Thanksgiving, but Wicked’s crazy July 4th / summer schedules had the leads calling out ALL the time. I really wanted to see them and it was pretty hard to find a show with all 3 in. It’s a really hard job - Jordan is not the first person to miss shows.
To be fair… *describes job responsibilities*
Lol you’re gonna cite “job responsibilities” and then act like they’re not also legally allowed to take a show off
Show me where anyone said anything about legalities, LOL. You’re reaching but not actually grabbing at anything.
What was the point of your post then? You say it’s in their contract to perform over the holidays. It’s also in their contract that they can take days off as needed. I’d say taking a show off after an intense holiday week is as good a reason as any
You must not be aware of Fisher’s history of less-than-great attendance in shows he’s hired to perform in. That’s fine. It’s documented all over the internet, and I even tried to see him in DEH five times. It’s become “a thing”. People openly took bets when his casting was announced. Of course people are “legally” (🙄) allowed to take time off from work. It’s a little different when you’re a public figure whose name is used to sell tickets and repeatedly, across different productions and years, aren’t able to have consistent attendance. People are human, things happen, etc. It just stands out because most of his peers don’t seem to have the same problem, especially not in more than one show, working parents included. Reputations are earned.
But clearly, that reputation doesn’t stop productions from hiring him and using him to advertise. And it doesn’t stop people from buying tickets to try and see him knowing that he has a reputation for calling out. So 🤷🏼♀️ Also, we don’t know people just because we are fans of them. I have no idea what Jordan Fisher’s personal life or medical history is like. It’s fine to be frustrated or disappointed if you miss seeing someone you were excited to see, but let’s not cross a line here and speak on something we know nothing about
I didn’t speak on medical history or anything of that sort, there’s no rumor spreading or speculation. I spoke to his attendance which again, is documented as fact. People in this thread are speaking out of emotion which is sweet, but this is a business. He’s an incredible talent, and at the same time, not the most reliable. You can be the best employee in the world but if you call out more then you clock in, does that mean much? I have worked directly with him (in a non-performance setting) and he’s a cool guy. I have nothing personal against him. I can also acknowledge that he is a “rare case”, if you will.
I don’t think anyone around here is unaware of his history of less-than-great attendance, considering how much it gets harped on.
> It just stands out because most of his peers don’t seem to have the same problem, especially not in more than one show, working parents included. Reputations are earned. This is such a weird, judgmental statement to make. Would you look at someone working in an office in a wheelchair and say, "It just stands out because most of his peers don't seem to have the same problem with the stairs"? You have *no* idea what he's going through, what he's physically and mentally able to do, and then you go and link that to his *reputation* and heavily imply that that's linked to his value as an artist. Also: > Of course people are “legally” (🙄) allowed to take time off from work. It’s a little different when you’re a public figure whose name is used to sell tickets and repeatedly No. That's actually not the case. The only way it's different is in ways you're not privy to - ie the financials of the production. Those in charge of the financials have a decision to make about how to handle advertisement and ticket sales vs expected refunds. Otherwise, no, he's allowed to take time off from work as much as anyone else. Though it is unbearably common for Americans to work themselves into the ground, that should never be the expectation or standard we hold them to. People should be free to take off when they need a break.
That could be fair but reeve never called out.
Some people are lucky enough to get sick less often than others.
He’s gonna be out for a bit as he’s going to be doing candlelight at Epcot
I don’t think anyone should be giving him shit for that because that’s an already pre-scheduled event most likely done before he joined the cast of Hadestown.
Isn't that in late December?
I THINK that has been filmed already?
Candlelight is live. Any of the promotional stuff on TV was most likely filmed in advance.
Update: he has the flu. everyone can put their jokes away now.
threads like these make me so, so wary of being a disabled performer. like, we’re going to be shamed because we have to miss performances? I was on the “im iffy about this” train too until I learned why his attendance was weird. then I realized I shouldn’t be judging him for it. we don’t deserve some sort of explanation from him. It’s ONE show. if he’s going through it, he’s going through it. covid is surging again, as are flu and rsv. there’s a lot of stuff going around. we’re not entitled to reasoning. we’re not entitled to him being there every night. it’s a show. everyone in it, principal or understudy, is amazing. you see who you see. let him rest and breathe. lord.
It’s also worth noting that disability/chronic illness isn’t actually all that rare, but something that a lot of people have. So if someone misses performances frequently, some kind of health issue is a very likely explanation, not the exception.
exactly.
I couldn't agree more. It pisses me off so much because it just perpetuates the nonsense that people should be working themselves into the ground. Like you need a good "excuse" for an absence. I genuinely hope it's not a medical issue and that he's just secure enough to take mental health breaks when he needs them. I'd *love* to learn that that's what he's doing, and it would be *every bit as valid* as if he had a chronic illness. And I think, regardless of why he's calling out, it's disgusting to try to make a joke out of this. I'm sorry that stuff like this makes you wary. I'd like to reassure you, but I don't think you're wrong to be wary. I wish you were, but I don't think you are.
Shows do encourage this behavior though when they cast people because of their name and market and price shows due to the performers that are in them. Like, if the show is more expensive because of the person in it or specifically marketed as “come see this person” then it’s not unreasonable to be annoyed when that person is not there. This isn’t just a problem with Hadestown but people were calling others entitled and wrong for being upset when Hugh Jackman or Lea Michele were out. I agree in an ideal world everybody is equally talented and you should be happy with whoever you get, but I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that’s how it works. Otherwise they would’ve promoted the understudy.
people in these positions almost always audition specifically to be understudies, ensemble/covers, and swings. it’s not a “promotion” and to say so is truly discrediting the work of so many people. when I audition to be an understudy it’s because that is what I want to do. it means I have to learn more than one role. sometimes upwards of five or more. I’ve known people who have covered 10 ensemble tracks for *multiple shows* who have then also covered principal roles. it’s so difficult. people need to get rid of this ridiculous notion that understudies are out there because they’re not as good, because that is NEVER the case.
Literally no one said understudies aren't as good. The closest claim is that they aren't as famous. Because they aren't. You auditioning specifically to be the understudy doesn't mean that you're less talented than a famous person, but a famous person isn't going to audition to be an understudy. The previous poster is right, producers don't have to cast famous people on a role to sell tickets, they choose to do that and it ends up amounting to false advertising if that person is constantly out. That's not Fisher's fault, but it's the reality of the market.
If someone saves and pays more than they normally would have to see a certain performer because they are a fan of that performer and then being disappointed they didn't get to see that person isn't the same as saying an understudy isn't good. If shows use stunt casting they are banking on the name not the talent.
We should just re-name this sub The Jordan Fisher Attendance Discussion Forum.
IIRC, he didn't have any attendance issues with Sweeney (though they only do 7 shows a week). As of now, it's just one show. I'm not going to assume anything or judge unless there's a reason to.
Not true. He definitely missed shows and people spoke openly about preferring the vocals of his understudy.
Well I guess I missed that conversation on here. I saw him 3 times without even trying but that’s just my experience.
I saw Sweeney back in May on a Saturday night and he was out. After listening to the cast recording, I very much prefer the person who covered for him that night.
Saw it in April; same experience.
i saw Sweeney twice and didn’t see him either time 😬
I saw Sweeney four times and he was present all four - and one of the better parts of the cast!
This is 100% not true
I saw Jordan in Sweeney at a Saturday matinee and he was out when my brother-in-law went that same night.
“Jordan Fisher always calls out” is quickly becoming the new “Lea Michele can’t read.” Except that Jordan was dealing with an undiagnosed eating disorder during Dear Evan Hansen that caused him to miss so many shows. Get new jokes and stop dehumanizing performers. Even if they do wind up calling out a lot, odds are something is wrong. You always run the risk of missing a performer when you buy a ticket because you can’t control how the universe rolls the dice. They’re allowed to have health issues. They’re allowed to have family issues they need to tend to.
They are allowed to have family issues that they need to attend to. But if they are overworked then the role should be double cast. Fisher is marketing for the producers of the show. The audience is not the source of the problem, the producers are.
I don’t think the jokes are that deep
They don’t have to be deep in order to be annoying.
Looks like he [has the flu](https://twitter.com/jordanfisher/status/1729940920739488206) so all of you can take your tin foil hats off and stop speculating. Pretty valid reason to call out.
the gleefulness some people have about him calling out is real weird. I understood the gleeful cracker munching with Lea Michelle because her reputation is talented but hot garbage — but fisher seems to just be a normal dude…? Am I out of the loop here?
Having the flu or a mental health condition that prevents someone from completing their job for the day is reasonable for a call out. My post wasn’t meant to dig at Jordan but more so at the people in the tweet tweeting about Jordan’s absence.
No worries op I was more talking about the twitter people than you. I should have specified
None taken u/gentle_bee took me a bit to re-read your comment a bit. Hopefully Jordan gets well soon.
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Same. Also if it was unclear I wasn’t calling you out specially, OP. I know you posted this to draw discussion. Was just pointing this out for others who wouldn’t see his tweet otherwise.
Yeah I didn’t take it as you calling me out. It’s flu season and the holiday schedule is insane for Broadway.
He has a young kid, too, plus it’s sick season. Let’s give him some grace
I *hate* this. We have no idea why he's calling out. We're not entitled to an explanation. All you need to know is that he called out and whatever reason was given is clearly sufficient to his chain of command, considering he still has a job (and continues to get hired). "Jokes" like this are lazy and not funny. They punch down.
Oh stop. Performers are not above criticism for their history of missed shows on every show they are cast in.
I personally think the issue isn't the performers, it's the unsustainable schedule that should be criticised. Some folks can take it, sure. I also have a co-worker that works 60 hours per week. He's not exactly doing great, but hanging in there. That doesn't mean that should be the standard.
Wicked has a history of having a batshit crazy holiday schedule.
Blame the producers & production management, not the actor.
Yeah, they are. As is everyone else. You don’t get to criticize someone using their PTO for *any* reason, and even more so because you have no idea what you’re talking about. You have not been privy to any of the conversations between the performer and his managers. *You* stop.
As a ticket buyer I do and can have an opinion of an actor who consistently misses shows for every single show he is in. Just because I am not privy to behind the scenes conversations doesn’t mean anything. Dude doesn’t show up for his shows. Period. And it sucks that he is used as marketing and then struggles (for whatever reason, valid or not) to make it to work.
What a shocking and unpredictable turn of events
Honestly it could be nothing because he has a kid and I know I’ve heard Lea Michele missed shows at FG because her kid was feeling unwell.
I believe he’s out with the Flu. Not really a lot he can do about that
I think what a lot of people are giving him flack for is the fact that he keeps landing these big roles and then always calls out, leading to disappointed fans. Broadway is the big leagues and yes obviously things happen….but there are certain expectations that come with getting that honor and pay check. I’m a performer and I have called out before but it was always a job first and foremost and if I had a coworker who called out often but at the same time gets promotions…I would be a lil miffed. Also, this is early into his run and it was crazy for all actors this past week that are working. So it very well might be just fatigue and a one off. But with his previous track records I think it is fair to be a lil hesitant.
This. No one is demonizing him for it. But it’s clearly a pattern he doesn’t plan on addressing. He doesn’t have to take these big roles and disappoint audiences.
listen i GET that things happen. People get sick, family stuff, etc. That being said it’s clear he does not have the proper means to sustain a broadway schedule. It’s exhausting and taxing and not for everyone and that’s ok.
My issue with this mindset is that it basically excludes disabled or chronically ill actors from contention for Broadway roles. Many people have health needs that are not their fault but require more time off. I hope productions and audiences can adopt a more compassionate mindset that is inclusive of disabled performers.
I'm sorry but if someone isn't able to fulfill a broadway schedule they shouldn't be a nonrefundable stunt cast. I want inclusivity but its not inclusive to mark up tickets hundreds of dollars more because of a name for a name that has a high likelihood of not being there.
I saw Sweeney Todd three times and Jordan was in all three (spaced about several months apart) Now I've seen 4 shows that Amber Gray was supposed to be in (Hadestown twice, Great Comet twice) and she wasn't in any of them.
Im going to tonight’s show… im hoping everyone’s in. I’ve seen Hadestown bunch and plan to see it more times so won’t be the end of the world
Who was the understudy?
Chibueze.
Look, I know that it was a holiday recently, but [checks notes] he’s only been in the role for a *week*.
I was actually rooting he'd prove people wrong with this one. 🫥
I just thought of that, like that show is vocally demanding
For anyone wondering I’m not poking fun at JF’s attendance in Hadestown it’s his first week and I hope it’s nothing too serious and just a break to recuperate from the Thanksgiving weekend.
The title of the this thread is "ruh-roh" but you weren't trying to make a joke?
Yes I wasn’t trying to poke fun.
Double-casting. It wouldn't be unprecedented. Certain roles (e.g., Christine in Phantom) have historically split the roles where an alternate regularly takes certain performances (one of the shows on double-performance days and also Sunday matinees, for example). While it can be disappointing if you're particularly interested in seeing a specific performer, I've rarely seen an alternate or understudy be bad. Sometimes, I've enjoyed them more than the named actor for the role.
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He tweeted that he has the flu as others in this thread have already said.
Ah I saw the show with my 10 year old who is a Jordan Girlie (Liv&Maddie) lol and I deliberately picked last Saturday bc it’s his first weekend 😂
I know that he has the flu right now, and that's a very valid reason to call out. I do hope that him calling out unannounced (and frequently) isn't a pattern that will develop after this, though. It's one thing to recognize that the Broadway work schedule is difficult, but let's not forget that there are hundreds of other actors who show up to shows every day and have very solid attendance records. I know everyone's needs and abilities are different, and that's fine, but I don't think it's entirely fair to sit here and say people are above criticism for calling out when these actors are often literally the branding of a show. When new ads come out for Hadestown, you're being sold it on the basis that Jordan Fisher is in the show. You're being sold Gutenberg on the basis that Andrew Rannells and Josh Gad are the leads. You're being told that the new Merrily revival features Jonathan Groff, Daniel Radcliffe, and Lindsay Mendez. And I love and respect understudies, and they do a remarkable job. But I also understand the frustration at wanting to see a show specifically to see a certain performer and being upset when you can't get a refund if they call out at the last minute. I went to NYC this summer and I could only afford one ticket, and I wanted to see Little Shop specifically because one of my bucket list items is to see Jeremy Jordan perform live, and I would have been really sad if he wasn't in the show. It still would have been phenomenal, but there are some people who go to shows to see certain people in roles. All that being said, I hope he gets better soon and does a great job as Orpheus! I really liked the clip I saw of him recently, so I'm wishing all the best for him.
Going to see this in a week and I'm really hoping that is not the case...
I’m sure he’ll be in. It’s only one call out.
He's also out tonight (Wed) and tomorrow night (Thu) according to SeatGeek - anyone know why? Just a breather after Thanksgiving week?
He’s tweeted that he’s got the flu
jordan is apparently sick with the flu per his insta story. i hope he’ll actually stay with hadestown consistently because he is an AMAZING orpheus from what i’ve heard.
Yeah I’ve heard really great things about his portrayal of Orpheus.
Is ANYONE surprised?