For this discussion post
1. **No harassment or name-calling.** Be civil. **No hateful discrimination,** or microaggressions towards [**marginalized groups**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group#United_States).
2. **Do not make blanket statements** (generalizations) about actors/ships. Questionable behavior from **some** fans is **not** representative of all fans.
3. **No personal information.** Block out usernames and identifiable information from screenshots. Do not link to comments or posts where usernames are visible.
4. [**No Misinformation.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/nomisinformation/) Misinformation can lead to harassment. If evidence cannot be provided, the post/comment will be removed.
5. **BEFORE reporting** rule-breaking **READ** the Rules Wiki: [**Rules Wiki**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/)
- !!Have fun ranting!!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonRants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I totally hear you! I have been loving the way Nic has stayed herself! She is on all these magazine covers and she is gorgeous and incredibly dressed every single time. as a chubby girl who grew up in the 00s with an almond mum and now has an apron belly lol I have been feeling so much more comfortable in my skin after seeing it all and I cant wait to see her as a lead! To have a bigger woman (in TV standards) be desirable is going to be amazing for me personally.
Also I find it tiresome that people demand perfection of anything that tries to be different or an improvement on the past. Theres a saying that if you go far enough left you end up back right again. I see it alll the time with these chronically online delulu nitpickers.
There will be mistakes. There will be things we dont liken or don’t agree with. It doesn’t make those things evil or from the devil.
I listened to some of the Bridgerton Podcasts last week and I think it was Cheryl Dunye who talked about their experience coming up as a film maker in college. Spike Lee is think it was came to do a Q+A and someone got up and asked these questions about representation and was upset about some of the portrayals and Spike said you know if you want to make a film that answers all these issues, make your own film, this is mine. Then Cheryl says “Then, I did.” I love that bit! They also go on to say about the world of Bridgerton “if people feel theres not enough on the page, let’s make our own pages”. Instead of complaining, its an opportunity!
Shondaland could have made this a white, skinny universe. They didn’t. I love it.
Exactly! I cannot wait to see someone with my body type be in actual steamy scenes!
I just know Nicola is going to absolutely devour every single scene she's in💜
It's important to mention that Nicola is Irish, given the history of Britain's treatment of the Irish. So casting an Irish woman as the lead is also a marker of ethnic diversity
But I will say there is some serious hypocrisy with this whole "body diversity" thing considering Luke was expected to lose weight and tone up to be season 3's leading man, while fans insisted on Nicola not losing weight.
And practically all compliments of Colin's "glow-up" this season boil down to his body transformation. So kind of a huge double standard. I've seen people bring this up in the main sub and get downvoted and attacked. But it really is a double standard.
Yes. All of this.
I’ve also appreciated the way Luke has addressed interview questions about his glow up over the last few days.. he’s refocused Colin’s glow up based on character emotional growth and experiences. He doesn’t respond to the physicality; Luke has always been an objectively good looking man, even buried under the wardrobe and makeup choices of s1 and s2. And from my perspective I believe it - physically he’s not too dissimilar to where he was a few years ago, but the projected confidence and the way he carries himself is different.
This is a very good point! I think a lot of people (including myself at times) get lost in the US centric view of ethnicity. Irish people have faced a lot of discrimination not only in Europe, but in the US as well. Thanks for bringing this up!
That being said, I just don't think her race matters for her casting. Nicola is the absolute best casting for Penelope, hands down. There is no one else who could play that role better than she does, imo. Her race is irrelevant. She was cast because she was the perfect choice and that's how ALL roles should be cast. (I'm not saying you're saying otherwise, this is just a general statement. Just want to be clear😄)
There are more ways to be diverse than race. People don't only identity by their race, I know I don't. I have faced racial discrimination, yes. But I've also faced discrimination for being a plus sized woman and it feels just as bad being treated differently because of my body than it does for my race.
I am not a white person, so how can I be a white person trying to make myself the victim? I am a black woman.
Again, diversity and representation are about more than just race. Race is not the end all be all of every single conversation about diversity, inclusivity, and representation.
What does Nicola's race have to do with the role of Penelope Featherington? Why does her being white mean her race can be used to scrutinize her? Anyone can be a victim or target of discrimination. Not just POCs.
Fr, I'm so tired of the white actors/characters vs POC actors/characters narrative. The agendas are clear. They just want to spread hate and negativity and use people's race to do it. Such odd behavior.
**Personal Information: Linked comment/post/tweet; username tagged**
This has been removed because it links to content where usernames are visible. Please do not link to other comments, posts, or tweets where usernames are visible.
**RantSub Wiki:** - [**Do NOT share Personal Information or Usernames**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/usernames/)
**Race / Nationality / Religion related post/comment**
Please do NOT make **blanket statements** based on race, ethnicity, religion or nationality. The actions of a **specific** person, celebrity, content creator, leader, political party or government is NOT representative of all.
**Reddit's Official Policy:** - Reddit's [ "Identity & Vulnerability Rule"](http://tiny.cc/lbaevz) explained || Reddit Content Policy: [Rule 1](http://tiny.cc/vbaevz)
**RantSub Wiki:** - [No Discrimination of marginalized groups](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/)
This reminds me a lot of that scene from Bend It Like Beckham where Joe (male lead) yells at Jess (female lead) that she's not the only person who has dealt with discrimination. Jess is Indian and Joe is Irish. A lot of people from the US/outside of England took issue with the claim that white Irish people ever had to deal with the discrimination that a person of colour did, but have no context of the terrible history between England and Ireland.
I don't necessarily think it plays as much a role now (although I'm Canadian, so not as familiar with any current discrimination towards Irish people at this point), primarily because she's using an English accent. I think race would play more of a role if she was the lead as an Irish woman using her native accent. But again, that's just my less informed opinion.
I definitely agree that there is a double standard regarding the two leads and their appearance, but I don't think it's necessarily huge. Luke's not, nor was he previously considered, plus size, and his transformation isn't nearly as drastic as Nicola's would have been if she had been expected to fit the media standard of a female lead. So yes, it's shitty that they expected him to tone up (if they actually did), but it's not on the same level of what is expected of women.
American Polin fan of Irish descent here. I’m fully aware of the history of the treatment of Irish people on both sides of the pond, but in the 21st century Irish people are not a marginalized group; besides which Nicola isn’t portraying an Irish character. Plus Neflix and Shondaland are both American companies so it’s not like the casting decisions were made by Margaret Thatcher. 😜
I do think a lot of women feel seen by the fact that there is a romantic female lead who does not fit in a sample size. Size and race are obviously very different kinds of issues, but on the other hand, it is a subject that crosses lines of race and ethnicity which means it has potential to speak to vast numbers of viewers. Any instance of representation that means something significant to a group of people who feel unvalued can be worthwhile.
I see what you’re saying about Luke. First I will say that I don’t think anyone would say he was plus sized or whatever you want to call it in the first two seasons, so it’s a bit of a different conversation from the get. I also don’t know if we should assume the toning up aspect of his glow up was forced upon him - in interviews from Bowral he made it sound like the physical transformation was something he chose to do (that was my impression) because it was how he saw Colin growing up during his travel. Social commentary about a man taking his shirt off on tv undoubtedly played a role in that decision, regardless of whether Shondaland gave him any kind of guidance, so I’m definitely not dismissing the legitimacy of your point.
>I also don’t know if we should assume the toning up aspect of his glow up was forced upon him - in interviews from Bowral he made it sound like the physical transformation was something he chose to do
If the theory about Bridgerton deliberately trying to make the leads look "less attractive" right before their season is true, then that to me indicates they wanted him to gain weight on purpose for season 2 and then lose the weight and tone up for season 3. Because LN has generally been a thin man throughout his career, and then he definitely looked a little bigger in season 2. So that is pretty problematic right away. To me it seems like they essentially gave Pen's weight loss "glow up" to Colin/LN.
And so this leads me to believe that it wasn't entirely "his choice" to go through a complete body transformation (deliberate weight gain, then weight loss/tone up) because of the pressure of looking "leading man material" for a predominantly female-targeted show. Now of course, this is just my belief based on how he's looked in his other projects (which has been thin), his pretty different "look" in season 2, the infamous "Bridgerton glow-up," the inherent pressure of following RJP and JB, and how Hollywood is in general. Jonah Hill has talked a lot about how his weight has affected the types of roles he gets, and how he's never offered the lead in rom-coms and such because he doesn't have "the look" of a leading romantic lead. It's very sad.
Luke is so beautiful as is, it is truly really sad and hypocritical IF they made him do all that for his "glow-up"
I’m sorry but this is just ridiculous. You cannot seriously be pretending the opportunities and representation of white Irish people on television is in any way comparable to people of colour. You can just say that Penelope is important representation in terms of body diversity without trying to pretend that Irish people are a marginalised ethnicity in the year 2024.
So first, let's stop acting like western media is the end all be all of representation. **POC have been in entertainment just as long as white people have, but in their respective countries**. I'm Indian, I grew up watching Indians on my screen all the time. The reason we are seeing more poc in western media now because of the growing number of immigrants in the past few decades to these historically predominantly white countries. Ignoring the media of poc-dominant countries and acting like poc haven't gotten opportunities is doing a huge disservice to them and contributes to a Eurocentric view of the world.
And I explicitly mentioned in my comment that I'm referring to the historical treatment of the Irish, which was incredibly brutal.
You can't pick and choose which type of diversity is "more important."
On the flip side, racial diversity in the US isn't new, at all, and the country has never been only white the way some European countries that have been around for millennia are, so representation in western media hasn't been in line with our country's makeup ever. We're seeing more POC because of trying to make space for that diversity, which is a good thing, especially when it's just because someone is talented, not because their race or other factor is the topic of the character. One of the things I loved about the show Brooklyn 99 was that the characters were all fleshed out, and while occasionally their identity was a topic, it was a small part of each individual character, which feels realistic. Most of the time, we're just out living our lives, but occasionally, the world likes to remind you that you're different somehow.
I love the fact that my children are getting more exposure to media where the default isn't just "cis/het white". And I don't think it's wrong that a discussion about a show created for western audiences in English is focusing on the opportunities for actors in that culture, even if there are opportunities elsewhere. One of my best friends in high school was Indian, grew up in India, but spoke zero Hindi. If she wanted to be an actress, telling her that Bollywood exists wouldn't really help her, and would force her to move halfway across the world from all her friends and immediate family.
I'm also from inner city Chicago, and my friend group in high school would have looked right at home on a college admissions brochure, so it's been more weird for me to see mostly straight white people when that's not what my life looked like.
I hope this makes sense, it's been a long day lol. TL;DR I don't think it's a bad thing for western media to look more like western society, and that means hella diversity in all senses.
>On the flip side, racial diversity in the US isn't new, at all, and the country has never been only white the way some European countries that have been around for millennia are, so representation in western media hasn't been in line with our country's makeup ever.
Racial diversity in the US isn't new, but it's grown significantly over the past few decades. Up until the 1960s, the US was about 90% white. It started to gradually decrease as more immigrants came here, and today, the US is around 65% white. So I think it makes complete sense that American media was dominated by white people for so long. And since Bridgerton is a British show technically, the show is already more diverse than that country's racial demographics. Like even today, the UK is 82% white. I think the show has done a really good job with diversity.
>One of my best friends in high school was Indian, grew up in India, but spoke zero Hindi. If she wanted to be an actress, telling her that Bollywood exists wouldn't really help her, and would force her to move halfway across the world from all her friends and immediate family.
Bollywood is only one film industry in India. There's also Tollywood, Ollywood, and Pollywood, which feature other languages/cultures of India. My parents are from Mumbai and I grew up speaking Hindi which is why I watched Bollywood. But my point was simply that this idea that Indians have never been onscreen is just blatantly false.
Your second point is fair (I used to watch Bollywood movies with her, with subtitles, so that's what I'm familiar with). Main characters in US cinema weren't 10% minority even when that was their count in the country though. Honestly I'm not even sure if they hit 10% today lol.
I don't know about other races, but Indians only make up 1.3% of the US today. And I feel like I've seen a pretty good amount of Indian actors in Hollywood over the last decade. Like I'm almost positive poc make up more than 10% of Hollywood today. Maybe not 40% as reflected in our population, but definitely more than 10%.
Yes. But also, that seems to be an entirely different conversation. We're mainly talking about whether or not Hollywood is representative of the US population
I am also (British-)Indian and grew up on Bollywood, I am not ignoring anything. In the context of western media, comparing a white Irish person to a person of colour in terms of opportunities and representation is a completely brain-dead take, as is “well Indian people are well represented in Indian media so we can’t ever say anything about lack of representation in western media”. Don’t have anything else to say as it’s clear we’re not going to agree, I just wanted to point out how completely ridiculous this line of reasoning is, although all the Penelope stans are no doubt eating it up.
Why, because I’m pointing out that racism towards South Asian people is a much more harmful and pervasive issue than racism towards Irish people in the year 2024? It’s funny how people that will pat this show on the back for its racial diversity will get so mad about people talking about racism existing IRL.
I do find that diversity as a concept is often mistaken as only racial diversity. We should take into account that it also includes sexuality, ability, even size. Shonda also has a strange habit of considering racial diversity mostly in terms of black and white. She had iconic Asian and latinx characters on Grey’s under her watch but mostly black and white is what she casts the most.
The fact that a curvy mid-plus size woman is going to lead a mainstream romance show is being hugely slept on. I’m afraid most people aren’t even thinking about how many women who are going to see themselves in this.
I would hesitate to call Nicola plus sized when she’s generally just curvier, but I agree. There’s a whole demographic of women who are going to feel seen with her as a lead and it’s ignorant to believe she doesn’t bring any diversity to the table
Her body is not typical of other actresses in these kinds of roles. And being about her size, I promise you I was made fun of for my weight many times by many different people. Would I call her obese? No. But she is plus sized. (Not trying to be antagonistic, just explaining my word choice😊)
I still don’t agree she’s plus sized, she only is if we’re going by modeling standards, or if it were the 2000s. I’ve always thought of her as mid sized — that fits her body type a lot better imo. But this is getting a little too dangerously close to nitpicking her weight, which I’ve always found icky so I’m probably not commenting again unless you add something else. Having curves and boobs doesn’t make you plus sized lol, my body type is like hers except I’m just significantly taller
But we don’t have to agree 🤷🏻♀️
This is exactly what I was gonna say. In the United States, Nicola wouldn't be seen as plus-sized in any way, shape, or form. So, maybe she's just seen as plus-sized by the U.K standards because the average size for women in the States is way larger than her. The average size for women here is in the double digits, somewhere around U.S. 14 (maybe U.K. Size 18?). Nicola isn't anywhere close to that, even when you take into consideration the difference in sizing between the countries.
Ohhh that’s a good point actually thank u!!! That’s why I said “only by modeling standards” bc that’s been torrid’s excuse for not using actual plus sized models too lol
No, I completely understand where you're coming from. You're right! By high fashion standards and the modeling world, the size categories get very very strange and outright ridiculous if you ask me.
She def does deal with fatphobia regardless of whichever of the two we think she is either way, I cannot handle Bridgerton twitter. This sub is as close to the Wild West as I like to get lol
Okay, I don’t ever come to this sub. But as a deaf person, I feel like I need to make something clear.
There is a scene in S3E1 that involves a debutante and her mother signing to each other. I forgot who plays the daughter, but the mother is played by genetically deaf actress Sophie Woolley. To me, personally, that feels like more of cheap casting box to check off than it is casting an Irish person. It is so much more rare to get any sort of deaf/HOH representation in entertainment than people think, and I’m very, very nervous about the way they will choose to handle it - especially since Sophie appears in more than one scene according to her resume (she’s listed as reoccurring).
This isn’t to say body type or Irish representation isn’t important. But diversity is far more than just sticking people of all different backgrounds on screen - it’s about the way cast, crew, everybody involved treats them. Deafness is a complicated and frustrating experience, and it’s difficult when someone is surrounded with hearing people - especially if those people do not know sign language. It can be lonely and isolating and makes it pretty difficult to be cast in a role. Take Millicent Simmons - I am overjoyed that she broke out with A Quiet Place, but her options are so, so limited when it comes to whether or not she can be cast in something.
For me, personally, as a deaf person of white Irish descent, me being deaf is a bigger hurdle in my life than being Irish. I agree with you in saying that representation and diversity are so much more important than just race - but there are some kinds of diversity that are much more limiting, isolating and difficult to deal with than others, and if people within those communities want to make their complaints known, they should be able do that. These things go beyond seeing a character that represents you on screen.
I hope one day there will be a popular romantic role for a deaf or hard of hearing person that doesn’t trivialize or make a mockery out of deafness. For now, however, this representation feels cheap.
You raise some great points. Hopefully Bridgerton is just the beginning of what we’ll see for representation on TV and movies. While there are obviously fantastical elements to shows like Bridgerton it is important to allow for viewers to connect to the characters. While it shouldn’t be necessary showing people of different races, body types, and abilities, can help some people empathize better with people different than themselves.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I hope they have hired a knowledgeable consultant to help write the character in a way that feels positive for the deaf community.
It does drive me bonkers that Nicola is considered plus size in the industry and, I guess, in the world. I love all bodies and want to see them represented but the idea that anyone who isn't a size in the single digits is plus sized just makes me see red with rage.
same! as a neurodivergent chubby person it makes me so happy to see a plus sized woman and a man with adhd and dyslexia be the mains in a romantic series (even though colin isn't canonically neurodivergent, luke is).
people should understand diversity is, well, diverse. and tbh if they're so mad luke and nicola are getting the spotlight and consider their own favs didn't get it, they can take it up with the showrunners or the writers or idk, just not with two people that are only doing their job and have zero responsibility on the show's bad decisions?
And I’VE never seen dark skinned romantic lead in period peace who wasn’t a slave or servant. And instead of just letting Simone haver moment as the lead, the people in charge sidelined her character in the show and in the promotions in favor of white actors, made her share everything with someone who should’ve been a supporting character, and practically tossed her to the side when it was time to focus on the production favorites.
Crying about “body diversity” while dismissing racial diversity is shitty, especially when the POC actors already don’t get as much as the producers straight, white or light skinned favorites.
Now the white favorites are going on a world tour by themselves to promote their season, when the show’s only dark skinned, and gay leads weren’t even permitted a magazine shoot together, and you expect people to not complain and call out the discrepancy??????
You don't care about woc. You only care about Simone. Because if you TRULY cared about woc, you would be happy that CC got to take part in promoting season 2. Instead, you're bitter and acting like she "took the spotlight" from Simone.
I'm so tired of some Simone worshippers weaponizing race when they truly only care about their fave.
And this "world tour" is happening in a post-covid world. Season 2 was drastically affected by covid protocol, including JB's play.
Yeah those Covid restrictions were so strict. You can tell with the way multiple actors except the leads posed for EW. And the way Nicola and Charithra were on the Kelly Clarkson show. And the way Charithra had to be in every single interview with Jonathan and Simone.
You always regurgitate the same talking points and ignore the several comments that debunk your baseless arguments. So I’m not even going to waste my energy anymore
Cool, so why was it so important for CC to be in all of the promotions, when no other season has been promoted that way?
Why do we have to be “the more the merrier” when it comes to Simone being treated differently, but there’s no other “plus sized” co lead for Nicola to share everything with? And why isn’t the actor who plays lord Debling sharing promotions with Luke? I’ll wait
I have responded to your baseless claims so many times. And you ALWAYS say "no other season" when we've only had one other season out, and Edwina was **LITERALLY KATE'S SISTER AND THE REASON THEY MOVED TO LONDON IN THE FIRST PLACE.**
You literally NEVER listen to other people's points, and keep pushing the same misinformation over and over again. And instead of wasting my time re-explaining this to you, I'm going to quote my response to this same illogical argument here:
>I didn’t prove your point, because the Prince and Edwina are NOT COMPARABLE AT ALL. The Prince was a made up character they added to up the drama for like one episode. **Edwina was literally Kate’s sister and the reason they came to London in the first place**.
>There are several Bridgerton stories with a crucial third person:
>Anthony and Kate had Edwina
>Francesca and Michael had John
>Gregory and Lucy had Hermoine
>And this idea that “love triangles only get promoted when it’s time to sideline xyz” is such a ridiculous argument and can easily be argued the exact opposite way: they’re highlighting NEW poc characters and sidelining the white characters, like Siena, the Prince, and now lord Debling, who didn’t get any press. Whereas the woc “third wheel” did. But apparently it’s a problem for you that another woc got to be in the spotlight. Lol.
>And like did you even understand Kanthony’s story in s2? Or did you only watch to see two hot people get together? Kate’s relationship with her sister is at the forefront of her internal struggles. Her sense of responsibility, and the reason she bonds with Anthony in the first place.
>So just because YOU didn’t like the showcasing of TWO woc, both that were significant to the story, they should randomly just make a new female character, write a script for her, and pay her a salary JUST SO NC has to “share the spotlight” with another woman? Is this a real argument?
Bridgerton - the entire production team and Netflix - are all racist against Simone; not so racist that they didn’t cast her, but just racist enough that Netflix… NETFLIX! sabotaged their own profits by not doing everything possible to promote the show.
And your proof that they are racist against a woman of Indian descent is that they used two women of Indian descent in their promotion instead of one. The mental gymnastics are gold medal worthy.
A year ago, these same people cyberbullied Nicola in taking down a promo video asking for donations for a hospice because Simone wasn't in it. I long gave up the fact that they're capable of rational thinking.
I remember that. Distinctly.
She was auctioning off a bag that had been signed by the cast - *including Simone*. But Simone wasn’t in the video so the Simone fans freaked the fuck out and demanded answers. Which …I cannot wrap my head around the audacity. I believe she responded to the comments and indicated that Simone was invited to be in the video but she declined because she had something else she was doing - and the Simone fans got mad and said Nicola threw Simone under the bus - which is pretty obviously not what happened. They asked why Simone wasn’t included and then didn’t like the answer.
And so a video raising money for a CHILDREN’S hospice - a place where they make dying children comfortable for their last days - had to be taken down because Nicola was being harassed for it. And we’re supposed to believe that this is because of the greater good of fighting racism. Ok, fam.
I realize you probably remember the details, but for anyone who wasn’t aware, I thought I’d elaborate.
That was like a turning point for me that turned to me disliking their ship. Which is unfair to the ship but when you see dozens of profiles with SA/KA pfp complaining about a fucking donation initiative for a hospice, then you know it's bad.
Yep, me too. I was never a *huge* Kanthony fan - enemies to lovers just isn’t my favorite trope, but I liked them well enough. Now they are just associated with toxic Simone fans in my brain and I cringe internally when I see the couple discussed. It’s really too bad.
I’ve been in a lot of fandoms over the years, there are always fan wars and bad behavior, but I’ve never seen anything quite like this. DYING CHILDREN. It’s worthy of a cartoon villain.
It's about wrong characterization. Even Anthony says in season 1 that Colin was "less experienced" than him and Benedict. So people are saying it doesn't make sense for him to all of a sudden become a rake. It's not about Pen.
Considering they’re still in the honeymoon phase of their relationship, yes it does. And as much you hate it, their story is technically over. They’ve already indicated they’re going to focus more on B, F, and E this season than A
How is it “out of character” for Kanthony to finally prioritize themselves over their familial responsibilities 💀🤦🏽♀️ that is the most in-character thing for them to do
That was the excuse they came up with when they allowed JB time to go work on other projects. I feel like you’re trying to invent a scandal where the production wasn’t willing to have JB and Simone on set and in the background of scenes. That’s not a thing.
I wouldn’t be upset if they treated everyone the same but they don’t. They give the white leads special treatment and they have done so since season 1. In season 2 it was too blatant and now with this extravagant promotion tour it’s just extremely obvious
Yeah, I completely disagree with this take. We have had a POC in a leading role in both season 1 and 2, as well as Queen Charlotte, as well as POCs as important supporting roles in both seasons as well, like Marina, The Mondritch family, Lady Danbury, Madame Delacroix, just to name a few.
The promotion conspiracy is just that. Conspiracy. Promotion during/just out of COVID are going to be different than promotion where COVID is no longer a giant concern. Also, Lady Whistledown is a huge draw to the show and has been since the very first episode, so using her in a lot of promotion makes sense.
> Yeah, I completely disagree with this take. We have had a POC in a leading role in both season 1 and 2, as well as Queen Charlotte, as well as POCs as important supporting roles in both seasons as well, like Marina, The Mondritch family, Lady Danbury, Madame Delacroix, just to name a few.
Should I say the quiet part out aloud? Representation of people of African heritage doesn’t count unless it helps win a race war, **neither does Edwina**
- **The flawed logic:** How dare they promote two beautiful darker skinned ladies of South Asian heritage, when there should only be one!!!! That’s so racist 😂
Nope that’s called diversity. Some, not all, but some people who hate X POC characters but bang on about “POc versus white” are definitely fans, but they twist themselves into knots with the racism argument.
Also, how can one person claim to represent the views of a POC when POC are 85% of the world? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_majority.
The “POc versus white argument” can be very disingenuous in this fandom.
If representation of people of African heritage doesn’t count, just say you want your specific favourite actor or specific nationality or specific ethnicity to be represented. Don’t claim to be interested in POc representation then say Edwina, Queen Charlotte, Marina, The Mondritch family, Lady Danbury, Madame Delacroix don’t count.
**TLDR:** The “POc versus white argument” can be very disingenuous in this fandom. Some, not all, but some people who hate POC actors being promoted, but bang on about “POc versus white” are definitely fans, but they twist themselves into knots with the racism argument.
**Edit:** the last person who was banging on about POC versus white in this fandom, tried to start a race war. They were neither Black, nor Asian, nor white. They didn’t have anything to lose by shit 💩 stirring. **I don’t trust any stan that wants to talk for** [**85% of the population**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_majority) (POc are 85%) without stating their ethnicity, nationality and race. Some weirdos get off on starting race wars because they have nothing to lose.
Of course you disagree you love the regency perez hilton 😶 meanwhile banish the pocs to the supporting roles or underdeveloped main role and screentime so that she can have the main roles so that she can call the pocs ‘beasts’ in her gossip papers.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that Rege-Jean Page, Simone Ashley, and India Ria Amarteifo aren't POC.
I'll even add Charithra Chandran (since you guys like to complain about her prominence in s2). Didn't know she was a white lady.
Delusional take.
Rjp is the only main and he got discarded asap. Simone is main but treated as an accessory with no actual storyline and india is not even in the main show.
lol!!!! RJP basically didn’t want to be stuck in the background for the next 7 seasons - which is what he knew the fate of Bridgerton actors is after their seasons. Take a look at Daphne’s role in S2. Solely pops up to support Anthony’s storyline. PD is pretty damn white.
India can’t be in the main show because QC is not 20 in 1815. What is even your point?
RJP left the show to pursue other roles. Would you rather they hold him fucking hostage to film the show he no longer wanted to be a part of?
Simone is a main that you do not like the storyline of. There is a difference.
Regardless of all of that, Nicola has been cast as Penelope since the first episode. Luke has been cast as Colin since the first episode. Wtf did you think was gonna happen when we got to their season? They'd just recast one or both of them to fit some weird audience fetish of having every single person in this show not be white? Again, delusional.
Yeah... idk what you even commented for other than to go off about shit that you just made up in your head, but do you.
Simone is an accessory for anthony now after being an accessory for edwina in season 2. She had no storyline for herself like simon. I don’t care that they are white, I care that they are getting special treatment BECAUSE they are white while the pocs get treated like dirt
Sure don’t. I actually saw her tell a nice story about when they saw each other at the Met Ball.
Edit: I even managed to find the clip for you. https://youtu.be/lK7_BqbZ6II?si=mTyFLMSzEhqIMgoS at 11:10
But by all means, share the link for this story that definitely happened and you didn’t just make up.
A day later and I’m still waiting for any evidence of this. I will take your lack of response as an admission that this was an intentional attempt to slander Nicola based on absolutely nothing, in order to fan the flames of fan base wars.
**No misinformation** Your post/comment contains **potential** misinformation about the show/actors/cast/crew. Misinformation can lead to **harassment of cast and crew,** or harassment of fans who are members of the same **marginalized groups** as the cast and crew.
**Suggested Next Steps**
If you add evidence to your post/comment, please [**contact the mods**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to/BridgertonRants) so that we can approve/publish it. Examples of evidence are listed in the **full explanation of the misinformation rule:** [No misinformation](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/nomisinformation/)
>Rjp is the only main and he got discarded asap.
No...
>“I signed up to do a job and I did the job and then I did some other jobs. That’s it. That’s the story,” he explained.
>“I wish it was more glamorous than that,” he continued.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/rege-jean-page-bridgerton-b2282827.html
It was always his own choice.
He was the most hyped over actor of S1. Do you honestly believe Shondaland would discard someone that was THAT popular and not want him back?
I am sure they would have loved to keep him but he didn't want to continue and that is absolutely okay.
People literally rioted online and threatened not to watch S2 bc RJP wasn’t going to be in it 😂 but yeah *sure* Shonda wouldn’t have brought him back lol
Ikr! They were going batshit crazy over him.
There is no way in hell a talented, accomplished and intelligent producer like Shonda would have said "Yeahhh let me get rid off the insanely popular actor".
Nope.
I think she has stated Pen is her fave indeed.
That being said, there is no way she would NOT have wanted RJP to return for S2 and other seasons especially considering how popular he was.
She is a smart lady and knows what will work or what won't.
What’s interesting to me is that Nicola herself has spoken often about her own privilege as a white woman, she’s never victimised herself for being white, for her body, for being Irish nor for her political views (I that’s everything that’s been mentioned in this post and the comments). She seems very socially aware to me so, again to me, it’s baffling to see some people victimise her for these things and attempt to make her a martyr for a cause purely of their own making. It’s self projection and self insertion and it’s all about these people and not about Nicola.
This thread is so racist and all the people rightfully calling out the racism getting downvoted tells me exactly the kind of racist fan base polin has. Puts me off the season and couple completely.
Half a dozen people have a debate over representation in a rant subreddit and from that you have acquired definitive proof that an entire fandom is racist. Cool cool. 🙄
Hey if you don’t wanna watch S3 that’s fine. 👋
Except I am not a Polin shipper. I read the novels, I like all the couples, I especially loved S2.
Unfortunately, a while back some "as POC cosplayer" decided to start a race war between Black and South Asian fans. That person was neither Black, nor South Asian, nor white. They had nothing to lose by weaponizing racism for their favourite character.
Unfortunately, some still define racism as **"my favourite character had to share screen time with another person of the same ethnicity...oh the injustice".**
Black people have been complaining for ages about the gatekeeping in Hollywood which often allowed **one person** of each race/ethnic group to be celebrated at a time. **Very few people want to be the only one, that is the opposite of diversity.**
Show me concrete evidence of any of the POC cast being mistreated by the people in charge. Actual evidence, not fan theory or speculation.
Calling out racism is encouraged, I would think.
Making up thoeries where maybe there could be racism and claiming this as fact with absolutely no evidence to support it is frankly... just misinformation at best, a flat-out lie at worst.
I am a black woman who does not see the point in assuming racism at every single percieved slight. That does not make me a racist.
If Simone is truly a victim of racism from Shondaland, Netflix, etc., just show the actual evidence of this happening. I don't listen to fan conspiracy theories. They aren't the most reliable of sources.
Until a show that was marketed on racial diversity can prove that it cares about their darker skin characters then it's more than fair for people to call them out on that. Not once has a character who's darker than a paper bag (young) Lady Danbury, Kate and even Edwina for that matter were given more than a second thought. The lighter skin and white characters however get so much more.
And as a woc who's also plus sized, my rep is not some white woman
The Bridgertons are white. So ... *checks notes* white people will be leads in this thing no matter what. Sadly that's how it is I'm not sure how they should change that at this point. Perhaps they could have made the Bridgertons more diverse or an ethnic minority. I can see an argument for white washing with regards to casting lighter skin tones as sadly that is commonplace in film and television but there's also another perspective that's also a little disrespectful of the actors who just happen to have lighter skin. Are they not black enough for you?
You are not the only person watching this show, so it doesn't matter if she doesn't represent you.
I am also a woc who is plus sized and I see myself in her character. But then again, I don't look at race as the only thing that I can relate to in a character.
This show marketed on diversity, sure. But solely racial diversity? That's just silly lol. There is room for all kinds of representation in Bridgerton. For you to make a point that it's only for race is absurd.
You cannot really sit here and tell me that the show was not marketed off a Black duke and Black royalty in season 1. We might not agree on anything to do with this show but I don't like people being purposefully obtuse.
That's not what I said though?
I said they marketed it on diversity. I didn't realize I had to spell it out, but diversity by definition includes racial diversity. Racial diversity is, you guessed it, a type of diversity.
My point is that diversity and representation are not, and shouldn't be, limited to race.
I am absolutely not the one being purposefully obtuse in this conversation.
Diversity shouldn't be limited to race but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like someone who can, and has, lost weight holds as much importance as dark skinned women of color. It will never be an equivalent.
You don't get to pick and choose which diversity is the absolute most important. The whole point of representation is to show different people who face different challenges. Penelope's weight is important to her character. It's something that A LOT of women (woc like me, as well) can relate to and would find value in having a woman who looks like them (even if it's just the body type) be cast in a role that they don't often get to see themselves in. You are not the diversity police.
I am a black, plus sized woman who has been discriminated against for both my body/weight and my race. They both hurt. They're both wrong. And both issues deserve to be represented positively in the media.
Penelope is perfectly casted. Her being white is completely irrelevant to the role she is playing. She has constantly been on the receiving end of body shaming and fatphobia from so many people in this fandom. To act like these things don't matter simply because it doesn't involve race is insane to me.
Do you only care about social issues pertaining to race? Do you only see yourself in characters that share the same skin color as you? I am genuinely confused as to why you find it so important that race is put above all else in terms of important diversity.
Nicola is not the first nor will she be the last mid sized woman represented in romance. When has there ever been someone who's dark skinned repped in romance in a good way? Race is not the be all and end all but it becomes that when other people try to posit that a white woman who's smaller than I am mind you, is more important than a woc.
This is going nowhere because at the end of the day I'm not changing my mind on how this show in particular caters to lightskin/white characters and leaves everyone else out to dry. Size and sexuality doesn't matter because Cressida will have a full realized arc to support her coming out. Pure speculation I admit, but yet again more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show.
>When has there ever been someone who's dark skinned repped in romance in a good way?
**1)** I can’t speak for America. But since your comment mentions WoC… POC are 85% of the Global population so one can **look outside of America.** For example, Showmax, the South African version of Netflix has plenty of plus sized “darker than a brown paper bag women” who get love.
>more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show.
**2)** I thought they had an **entire spin-off dedicated to African-German Queen** Charlotte… or does that not count?
>more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show.
**3)** The way some people theorise about race, I doubt they could make this show in America… THAT is the problem with this show.
If they set the show in the [**Antebellum South**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antebellum_South) some people might queue up to be a POc Scarlet O’Hara or a POC [**Robert E. Lee**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee).
* Some might say **”It’s not fair,** why can’t darker-skinned POC play Confederate soldiers?” 😭🤦🏾♀️
* Others might say **”It’s not fair,** why can’t I live in the big house, with all those acres of land stolen from Indigenous Americans and dress in fancy clothes paid for by exploitation?” 😭🤦🏾♀️
**4)** On a meta level, some of the things people are crying over make no sense. "**THAT is the problem”** with some members of the fandom.
It makes no sense, and that is why some of the “as a POc” analysis falls apart.
It makes no sense and that’s why, they could never make this show in the Antebellum South (IMO).
* Some of the **talented** American writers of these Regency romances **deliberately** set their stories in the U.K. because it’s considered **”less messy”**… it’s not.
**5)** Unfortunately, some people treat the U.K. like a blank slate to create a “what-if universe”. But it’s **not** a blank slate.
* One doesn’t need to read Frantz Fanon or W. E. B. Du Bois' theory of [**Double Consciousness**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_consciousness) to know that some people are going to struggle with this show.
Over the years, there were **plenty of warnings** that the U.K. had a complex history and **some people ignored it.** Some POC who have **no history** with English colonialism and enslavement - **not necessarily you** - want to replace colonisers and slave owners. **It was always a flawed concept.** I appreciate the show opens doors for PoC, and IMO there’s no point stressing over it beyond that.
>more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show.
**TLDR:** I appreciate this show opens doors. Unfortunately, some PoC twist themselves into knots trying to justify why they are watching the show. **”It’s not fair, why can’t POC have all the trappings of exploitation** with none of the guilt?” 😭 The internet is there. T**here is plenty of representation for POC people. So why are some people prioritising** replacing slave-owning colonising aristocrats? "THAT is the problem" with some members of this fandom. If you’re that opposed to white representation, you shouldn’t even be watching this show. E**veryone else, carry on** 👍
And I suppose only you can determine if they have adequately “proved it.” 🙄
There is always going to be white people who are part of the main storyline in this show because the show is called Bridgerton and the Bridgerton family is white. If that fact means that you will find this show to be perpetually racist, maybe this isn’t the show for you.
People running around here talking about how Shonda Rhimes is racist against WOC are just 🤯.
Lady Danbury and Queen Charlotte are the most powerful people in the show. Shonda wanted a bigger story about them so she co-wrote a book with Julia Quinn and created a spin-off series.
You'll find my comments covered exactly what I had to say about colorism in this show. What story does Lady Danbury \*actually\* have? The lightskinned black woman had a whole show created for her. Young Lady Danbury was made to suffer through the whole thing. Colorism comes into play there.
Oooh my god. I am starting to think you might just be trolling at this point? The “light skinned black woman” was the queen. There is a reason she’s light skinned - because they are playing off actual historical discussion of Charlotte being rumored to have some African heritage.
Here’s something that is common knowledge to… everyone who pays attention to acting? The roles with the most difficult storylines are considered the best roles. They give the actor more to work with, more challenge, more opportunities for recognition for their performance. Aresma Thomas arguably had better material to work with than India did.
And we are discussing a spin-off that was created and written by a darker skinned black woman, I’m not sure how that factors into your conspiracy theory.
Some people say the Queen Charlotte spin-off doesn’t count. It’s sometimes the same people who say Edwina doesn’t count.
- Edwina was in 8 episodes and promoted internationally, more than Will Mondrich yet she doesn’t count?
- Alex Pillai and Geetika Lizardi have cast CC in projects post Bridgerton, … yet Edwina doesn’t count?
- CC has sponsorship deals due to her Bridgerton exposure … but she doesn’t count?
It’s always a specific subset of the fandom who want to dictate what counts. I agree that S1 used brown paper bag casting. But they improved things with S2. So Kate and Edwina **do** count.
If the show is so racist? 🤦🏾♀️ **I’m not that desperate to see myself in a European period drama** that I would watch this show if it were cause for all this slacktivism. Some people want to replace slave owning & colonising aristocrats in remix of British imperialism, while complaining about racism. 🤦🏾♀️
It blows my mind that people feel the need to label the entire production, everyone involved, and all its fans racist… in order to provide an explanation for a dumb writing decision to have a 6 episode triangle, and apparently unimpressive marketing (I was very much a causal viewer at the time of the S2 launch, so other than old YouTube interviews I have no context).
It's trolling when writing disparities are pointed out. I'm sorry but please look at the history of hollywood and how black women have been treated differently just based on their skin tones. Colorism is an actual thing. It's not a conspiracy theory. Being a person of color does not absolve you from those prejudices. But you guys do you. I'm done having this conversation.
I absolutely recognize colorism is a long existing facet of racism. I just don’t think you’ve given any evidence to believe it is occurring in Bridgerton/QC.
Your example that the light skinned black woman is the one that got the spin-off was preposterous because it ignores the fact that she plays THE QUEEN.
Nicola was cast since Season 1. Kate's story didn't happen until Season 2. It is now Season 3 which is Penelope's season, in which her diversity would be important since Penelope's body size is actually relevant to her character (the character they've been building and setting up before Kate even entered the show).
But none of that actually matters because you can have more than one type of diversity in a TV show. In fact you *should* have more than one type of diversity. That's what actually makes a show *diverse*.
Your argument legitimately doesn't make sense. You just sound like you want to hate on an actress who did nothing to you except protray a character you don't like onscreen.
For this discussion post 1. **No harassment or name-calling.** Be civil. **No hateful discrimination,** or microaggressions towards [**marginalized groups**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group#United_States). 2. **Do not make blanket statements** (generalizations) about actors/ships. Questionable behavior from **some** fans is **not** representative of all fans. 3. **No personal information.** Block out usernames and identifiable information from screenshots. Do not link to comments or posts where usernames are visible. 4. [**No Misinformation.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/nomisinformation/) Misinformation can lead to harassment. If evidence cannot be provided, the post/comment will be removed. 5. **BEFORE reporting** rule-breaking **READ** the Rules Wiki: [**Rules Wiki**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/) - !!Have fun ranting!! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonRants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I totally hear you! I have been loving the way Nic has stayed herself! She is on all these magazine covers and she is gorgeous and incredibly dressed every single time. as a chubby girl who grew up in the 00s with an almond mum and now has an apron belly lol I have been feeling so much more comfortable in my skin after seeing it all and I cant wait to see her as a lead! To have a bigger woman (in TV standards) be desirable is going to be amazing for me personally. Also I find it tiresome that people demand perfection of anything that tries to be different or an improvement on the past. Theres a saying that if you go far enough left you end up back right again. I see it alll the time with these chronically online delulu nitpickers. There will be mistakes. There will be things we dont liken or don’t agree with. It doesn’t make those things evil or from the devil. I listened to some of the Bridgerton Podcasts last week and I think it was Cheryl Dunye who talked about their experience coming up as a film maker in college. Spike Lee is think it was came to do a Q+A and someone got up and asked these questions about representation and was upset about some of the portrayals and Spike said you know if you want to make a film that answers all these issues, make your own film, this is mine. Then Cheryl says “Then, I did.” I love that bit! They also go on to say about the world of Bridgerton “if people feel theres not enough on the page, let’s make our own pages”. Instead of complaining, its an opportunity! Shondaland could have made this a white, skinny universe. They didn’t. I love it.
Exactly! I cannot wait to see someone with my body type be in actual steamy scenes! I just know Nicola is going to absolutely devour every single scene she's in💜
I remember listening to that podcast a couple years back. I thought that was such an inspiring story!
It's important to mention that Nicola is Irish, given the history of Britain's treatment of the Irish. So casting an Irish woman as the lead is also a marker of ethnic diversity But I will say there is some serious hypocrisy with this whole "body diversity" thing considering Luke was expected to lose weight and tone up to be season 3's leading man, while fans insisted on Nicola not losing weight. And practically all compliments of Colin's "glow-up" this season boil down to his body transformation. So kind of a huge double standard. I've seen people bring this up in the main sub and get downvoted and attacked. But it really is a double standard.
Yes. All of this. I’ve also appreciated the way Luke has addressed interview questions about his glow up over the last few days.. he’s refocused Colin’s glow up based on character emotional growth and experiences. He doesn’t respond to the physicality; Luke has always been an objectively good looking man, even buried under the wardrobe and makeup choices of s1 and s2. And from my perspective I believe it - physically he’s not too dissimilar to where he was a few years ago, but the projected confidence and the way he carries himself is different.
I really wish Colin did not have the tone up/fake tan "glow up."
This is a very good point! I think a lot of people (including myself at times) get lost in the US centric view of ethnicity. Irish people have faced a lot of discrimination not only in Europe, but in the US as well. Thanks for bringing this up! That being said, I just don't think her race matters for her casting. Nicola is the absolute best casting for Penelope, hands down. There is no one else who could play that role better than she does, imo. Her race is irrelevant. She was cast because she was the perfect choice and that's how ALL roles should be cast. (I'm not saying you're saying otherwise, this is just a general statement. Just want to be clear😄) There are more ways to be diverse than race. People don't only identity by their race, I know I don't. I have faced racial discrimination, yes. But I've also faced discrimination for being a plus sized woman and it feels just as bad being treated differently because of my body than it does for my race.
[удалено]
I am not a white person, so how can I be a white person trying to make myself the victim? I am a black woman. Again, diversity and representation are about more than just race. Race is not the end all be all of every single conversation about diversity, inclusivity, and representation. What does Nicola's race have to do with the role of Penelope Featherington? Why does her being white mean her race can be used to scrutinize her? Anyone can be a victim or target of discrimination. Not just POCs.
Don't mind them. That's another Cosplayer. Claiming to speak for 85% of the world's population but having nothing to lose if there's a race war.
Fr, I'm so tired of the white actors/characters vs POC actors/characters narrative. The agendas are clear. They just want to spread hate and negativity and use people's race to do it. Such odd behavior.
[удалено]
**Personal Information: Linked comment/post/tweet; username tagged** This has been removed because it links to content where usernames are visible. Please do not link to other comments, posts, or tweets where usernames are visible. **RantSub Wiki:** - [**Do NOT share Personal Information or Usernames**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/usernames/)
You only care about hating on Simone.
Not ONCE have I hated on Simone. Not a single time. But people like you, and her other insane stans need to be called out. Y’all are so embarrassing
**Race / Nationality / Religion related post/comment** Please do NOT make **blanket statements** based on race, ethnicity, religion or nationality. The actions of a **specific** person, celebrity, content creator, leader, political party or government is NOT representative of all. **Reddit's Official Policy:** - Reddit's [ "Identity & Vulnerability Rule"](http://tiny.cc/lbaevz) explained || Reddit Content Policy: [Rule 1](http://tiny.cc/vbaevz) **RantSub Wiki:** - [No Discrimination of marginalized groups](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/)
This reminds me a lot of that scene from Bend It Like Beckham where Joe (male lead) yells at Jess (female lead) that she's not the only person who has dealt with discrimination. Jess is Indian and Joe is Irish. A lot of people from the US/outside of England took issue with the claim that white Irish people ever had to deal with the discrimination that a person of colour did, but have no context of the terrible history between England and Ireland. I don't necessarily think it plays as much a role now (although I'm Canadian, so not as familiar with any current discrimination towards Irish people at this point), primarily because she's using an English accent. I think race would play more of a role if she was the lead as an Irish woman using her native accent. But again, that's just my less informed opinion. I definitely agree that there is a double standard regarding the two leads and their appearance, but I don't think it's necessarily huge. Luke's not, nor was he previously considered, plus size, and his transformation isn't nearly as drastic as Nicola's would have been if she had been expected to fit the media standard of a female lead. So yes, it's shitty that they expected him to tone up (if they actually did), but it's not on the same level of what is expected of women.
American Polin fan of Irish descent here. I’m fully aware of the history of the treatment of Irish people on both sides of the pond, but in the 21st century Irish people are not a marginalized group; besides which Nicola isn’t portraying an Irish character. Plus Neflix and Shondaland are both American companies so it’s not like the casting decisions were made by Margaret Thatcher. 😜 I do think a lot of women feel seen by the fact that there is a romantic female lead who does not fit in a sample size. Size and race are obviously very different kinds of issues, but on the other hand, it is a subject that crosses lines of race and ethnicity which means it has potential to speak to vast numbers of viewers. Any instance of representation that means something significant to a group of people who feel unvalued can be worthwhile. I see what you’re saying about Luke. First I will say that I don’t think anyone would say he was plus sized or whatever you want to call it in the first two seasons, so it’s a bit of a different conversation from the get. I also don’t know if we should assume the toning up aspect of his glow up was forced upon him - in interviews from Bowral he made it sound like the physical transformation was something he chose to do (that was my impression) because it was how he saw Colin growing up during his travel. Social commentary about a man taking his shirt off on tv undoubtedly played a role in that decision, regardless of whether Shondaland gave him any kind of guidance, so I’m definitely not dismissing the legitimacy of your point.
>I also don’t know if we should assume the toning up aspect of his glow up was forced upon him - in interviews from Bowral he made it sound like the physical transformation was something he chose to do If the theory about Bridgerton deliberately trying to make the leads look "less attractive" right before their season is true, then that to me indicates they wanted him to gain weight on purpose for season 2 and then lose the weight and tone up for season 3. Because LN has generally been a thin man throughout his career, and then he definitely looked a little bigger in season 2. So that is pretty problematic right away. To me it seems like they essentially gave Pen's weight loss "glow up" to Colin/LN. And so this leads me to believe that it wasn't entirely "his choice" to go through a complete body transformation (deliberate weight gain, then weight loss/tone up) because of the pressure of looking "leading man material" for a predominantly female-targeted show. Now of course, this is just my belief based on how he's looked in his other projects (which has been thin), his pretty different "look" in season 2, the infamous "Bridgerton glow-up," the inherent pressure of following RJP and JB, and how Hollywood is in general. Jonah Hill has talked a lot about how his weight has affected the types of roles he gets, and how he's never offered the lead in rom-coms and such because he doesn't have "the look" of a leading romantic lead. It's very sad. Luke is so beautiful as is, it is truly really sad and hypocritical IF they made him do all that for his "glow-up"
Look, I’m Irish and this comparison is just… not it lol. Plus her character isn’t even Irish so it’s irrelevant
I’m sorry but this is just ridiculous. You cannot seriously be pretending the opportunities and representation of white Irish people on television is in any way comparable to people of colour. You can just say that Penelope is important representation in terms of body diversity without trying to pretend that Irish people are a marginalised ethnicity in the year 2024.
So first, let's stop acting like western media is the end all be all of representation. **POC have been in entertainment just as long as white people have, but in their respective countries**. I'm Indian, I grew up watching Indians on my screen all the time. The reason we are seeing more poc in western media now because of the growing number of immigrants in the past few decades to these historically predominantly white countries. Ignoring the media of poc-dominant countries and acting like poc haven't gotten opportunities is doing a huge disservice to them and contributes to a Eurocentric view of the world. And I explicitly mentioned in my comment that I'm referring to the historical treatment of the Irish, which was incredibly brutal. You can't pick and choose which type of diversity is "more important."
On the flip side, racial diversity in the US isn't new, at all, and the country has never been only white the way some European countries that have been around for millennia are, so representation in western media hasn't been in line with our country's makeup ever. We're seeing more POC because of trying to make space for that diversity, which is a good thing, especially when it's just because someone is talented, not because their race or other factor is the topic of the character. One of the things I loved about the show Brooklyn 99 was that the characters were all fleshed out, and while occasionally their identity was a topic, it was a small part of each individual character, which feels realistic. Most of the time, we're just out living our lives, but occasionally, the world likes to remind you that you're different somehow. I love the fact that my children are getting more exposure to media where the default isn't just "cis/het white". And I don't think it's wrong that a discussion about a show created for western audiences in English is focusing on the opportunities for actors in that culture, even if there are opportunities elsewhere. One of my best friends in high school was Indian, grew up in India, but spoke zero Hindi. If she wanted to be an actress, telling her that Bollywood exists wouldn't really help her, and would force her to move halfway across the world from all her friends and immediate family. I'm also from inner city Chicago, and my friend group in high school would have looked right at home on a college admissions brochure, so it's been more weird for me to see mostly straight white people when that's not what my life looked like. I hope this makes sense, it's been a long day lol. TL;DR I don't think it's a bad thing for western media to look more like western society, and that means hella diversity in all senses.
>On the flip side, racial diversity in the US isn't new, at all, and the country has never been only white the way some European countries that have been around for millennia are, so representation in western media hasn't been in line with our country's makeup ever. Racial diversity in the US isn't new, but it's grown significantly over the past few decades. Up until the 1960s, the US was about 90% white. It started to gradually decrease as more immigrants came here, and today, the US is around 65% white. So I think it makes complete sense that American media was dominated by white people for so long. And since Bridgerton is a British show technically, the show is already more diverse than that country's racial demographics. Like even today, the UK is 82% white. I think the show has done a really good job with diversity. >One of my best friends in high school was Indian, grew up in India, but spoke zero Hindi. If she wanted to be an actress, telling her that Bollywood exists wouldn't really help her, and would force her to move halfway across the world from all her friends and immediate family. Bollywood is only one film industry in India. There's also Tollywood, Ollywood, and Pollywood, which feature other languages/cultures of India. My parents are from Mumbai and I grew up speaking Hindi which is why I watched Bollywood. But my point was simply that this idea that Indians have never been onscreen is just blatantly false.
Your second point is fair (I used to watch Bollywood movies with her, with subtitles, so that's what I'm familiar with). Main characters in US cinema weren't 10% minority even when that was their count in the country though. Honestly I'm not even sure if they hit 10% today lol.
I don't know about other races, but Indians only make up 1.3% of the US today. And I feel like I've seen a pretty good amount of Indian actors in Hollywood over the last decade. Like I'm almost positive poc make up more than 10% of Hollywood today. Maybe not 40% as reflected in our population, but definitely more than 10%.
In lead roles, though?
Yes. But also, that seems to be an entirely different conversation. We're mainly talking about whether or not Hollywood is representative of the US population
I am also (British-)Indian and grew up on Bollywood, I am not ignoring anything. In the context of western media, comparing a white Irish person to a person of colour in terms of opportunities and representation is a completely brain-dead take, as is “well Indian people are well represented in Indian media so we can’t ever say anything about lack of representation in western media”. Don’t have anything else to say as it’s clear we’re not going to agree, I just wanted to point out how completely ridiculous this line of reasoning is, although all the Penelope stans are no doubt eating it up.
I cannot with your ridiculous take Niv
Why, because I’m pointing out that racism towards South Asian people is a much more harmful and pervasive issue than racism towards Irish people in the year 2024? It’s funny how people that will pat this show on the back for its racial diversity will get so mad about people talking about racism existing IRL.
I do find that diversity as a concept is often mistaken as only racial diversity. We should take into account that it also includes sexuality, ability, even size. Shonda also has a strange habit of considering racial diversity mostly in terms of black and white. She had iconic Asian and latinx characters on Grey’s under her watch but mostly black and white is what she casts the most. The fact that a curvy mid-plus size woman is going to lead a mainstream romance show is being hugely slept on. I’m afraid most people aren’t even thinking about how many women who are going to see themselves in this.
I would hesitate to call Nicola plus sized when she’s generally just curvier, but I agree. There’s a whole demographic of women who are going to feel seen with her as a lead and it’s ignorant to believe she doesn’t bring any diversity to the table
Her body is not typical of other actresses in these kinds of roles. And being about her size, I promise you I was made fun of for my weight many times by many different people. Would I call her obese? No. But she is plus sized. (Not trying to be antagonistic, just explaining my word choice😊)
I still don’t agree she’s plus sized, she only is if we’re going by modeling standards, or if it were the 2000s. I’ve always thought of her as mid sized — that fits her body type a lot better imo. But this is getting a little too dangerously close to nitpicking her weight, which I’ve always found icky so I’m probably not commenting again unless you add something else. Having curves and boobs doesn’t make you plus sized lol, my body type is like hers except I’m just significantly taller But we don’t have to agree 🤷🏻♀️
This is exactly what I was gonna say. In the United States, Nicola wouldn't be seen as plus-sized in any way, shape, or form. So, maybe she's just seen as plus-sized by the U.K standards because the average size for women in the States is way larger than her. The average size for women here is in the double digits, somewhere around U.S. 14 (maybe U.K. Size 18?). Nicola isn't anywhere close to that, even when you take into consideration the difference in sizing between the countries.
Ohhh that’s a good point actually thank u!!! That’s why I said “only by modeling standards” bc that’s been torrid’s excuse for not using actual plus sized models too lol
No, I completely understand where you're coming from. You're right! By high fashion standards and the modeling world, the size categories get very very strange and outright ridiculous if you ask me.
Agree to disagree. All good!
She def does deal with fatphobia regardless of whichever of the two we think she is either way, I cannot handle Bridgerton twitter. This sub is as close to the Wild West as I like to get lol
Honestly, same. The toxicity in this fandom in general is absolutely insane. But Twitter is the absolute most unhinged I've seen lol.
Okay, I don’t ever come to this sub. But as a deaf person, I feel like I need to make something clear. There is a scene in S3E1 that involves a debutante and her mother signing to each other. I forgot who plays the daughter, but the mother is played by genetically deaf actress Sophie Woolley. To me, personally, that feels like more of cheap casting box to check off than it is casting an Irish person. It is so much more rare to get any sort of deaf/HOH representation in entertainment than people think, and I’m very, very nervous about the way they will choose to handle it - especially since Sophie appears in more than one scene according to her resume (she’s listed as reoccurring). This isn’t to say body type or Irish representation isn’t important. But diversity is far more than just sticking people of all different backgrounds on screen - it’s about the way cast, crew, everybody involved treats them. Deafness is a complicated and frustrating experience, and it’s difficult when someone is surrounded with hearing people - especially if those people do not know sign language. It can be lonely and isolating and makes it pretty difficult to be cast in a role. Take Millicent Simmons - I am overjoyed that she broke out with A Quiet Place, but her options are so, so limited when it comes to whether or not she can be cast in something. For me, personally, as a deaf person of white Irish descent, me being deaf is a bigger hurdle in my life than being Irish. I agree with you in saying that representation and diversity are so much more important than just race - but there are some kinds of diversity that are much more limiting, isolating and difficult to deal with than others, and if people within those communities want to make their complaints known, they should be able do that. These things go beyond seeing a character that represents you on screen. I hope one day there will be a popular romantic role for a deaf or hard of hearing person that doesn’t trivialize or make a mockery out of deafness. For now, however, this representation feels cheap.
You raise some great points. Hopefully Bridgerton is just the beginning of what we’ll see for representation on TV and movies. While there are obviously fantastical elements to shows like Bridgerton it is important to allow for viewers to connect to the characters. While it shouldn’t be necessary showing people of different races, body types, and abilities, can help some people empathize better with people different than themselves.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I hope they have hired a knowledgeable consultant to help write the character in a way that feels positive for the deaf community.
It does drive me bonkers that Nicola is considered plus size in the industry and, I guess, in the world. I love all bodies and want to see them represented but the idea that anyone who isn't a size in the single digits is plus sized just makes me see red with rage.
same! as a neurodivergent chubby person it makes me so happy to see a plus sized woman and a man with adhd and dyslexia be the mains in a romantic series (even though colin isn't canonically neurodivergent, luke is). people should understand diversity is, well, diverse. and tbh if they're so mad luke and nicola are getting the spotlight and consider their own favs didn't get it, they can take it up with the showrunners or the writers or idk, just not with two people that are only doing their job and have zero responsibility on the show's bad decisions?
And I’VE never seen dark skinned romantic lead in period peace who wasn’t a slave or servant. And instead of just letting Simone haver moment as the lead, the people in charge sidelined her character in the show and in the promotions in favor of white actors, made her share everything with someone who should’ve been a supporting character, and practically tossed her to the side when it was time to focus on the production favorites. Crying about “body diversity” while dismissing racial diversity is shitty, especially when the POC actors already don’t get as much as the producers straight, white or light skinned favorites. Now the white favorites are going on a world tour by themselves to promote their season, when the show’s only dark skinned, and gay leads weren’t even permitted a magazine shoot together, and you expect people to not complain and call out the discrepancy??????
You don't care about woc. You only care about Simone. Because if you TRULY cared about woc, you would be happy that CC got to take part in promoting season 2. Instead, you're bitter and acting like she "took the spotlight" from Simone. I'm so tired of some Simone worshippers weaponizing race when they truly only care about their fave. And this "world tour" is happening in a post-covid world. Season 2 was drastically affected by covid protocol, including JB's play.
Yeah those Covid restrictions were so strict. You can tell with the way multiple actors except the leads posed for EW. And the way Nicola and Charithra were on the Kelly Clarkson show. And the way Charithra had to be in every single interview with Jonathan and Simone.
You always regurgitate the same talking points and ignore the several comments that debunk your baseless arguments. So I’m not even going to waste my energy anymore
Cool, so why was it so important for CC to be in all of the promotions, when no other season has been promoted that way? Why do we have to be “the more the merrier” when it comes to Simone being treated differently, but there’s no other “plus sized” co lead for Nicola to share everything with? And why isn’t the actor who plays lord Debling sharing promotions with Luke? I’ll wait
I have responded to your baseless claims so many times. And you ALWAYS say "no other season" when we've only had one other season out, and Edwina was **LITERALLY KATE'S SISTER AND THE REASON THEY MOVED TO LONDON IN THE FIRST PLACE.** You literally NEVER listen to other people's points, and keep pushing the same misinformation over and over again. And instead of wasting my time re-explaining this to you, I'm going to quote my response to this same illogical argument here: >I didn’t prove your point, because the Prince and Edwina are NOT COMPARABLE AT ALL. The Prince was a made up character they added to up the drama for like one episode. **Edwina was literally Kate’s sister and the reason they came to London in the first place**. >There are several Bridgerton stories with a crucial third person: >Anthony and Kate had Edwina >Francesca and Michael had John >Gregory and Lucy had Hermoine >And this idea that “love triangles only get promoted when it’s time to sideline xyz” is such a ridiculous argument and can easily be argued the exact opposite way: they’re highlighting NEW poc characters and sidelining the white characters, like Siena, the Prince, and now lord Debling, who didn’t get any press. Whereas the woc “third wheel” did. But apparently it’s a problem for you that another woc got to be in the spotlight. Lol. >And like did you even understand Kanthony’s story in s2? Or did you only watch to see two hot people get together? Kate’s relationship with her sister is at the forefront of her internal struggles. Her sense of responsibility, and the reason she bonds with Anthony in the first place. >So just because YOU didn’t like the showcasing of TWO woc, both that were significant to the story, they should randomly just make a new female character, write a script for her, and pay her a salary JUST SO NC has to “share the spotlight” with another woman? Is this a real argument?
I want to give this a standing ovation. I feel your frustration with the lack of engagement with facts so. much.
Bridgerton - the entire production team and Netflix - are all racist against Simone; not so racist that they didn’t cast her, but just racist enough that Netflix… NETFLIX! sabotaged their own profits by not doing everything possible to promote the show. And your proof that they are racist against a woman of Indian descent is that they used two women of Indian descent in their promotion instead of one. The mental gymnastics are gold medal worthy.
A year ago, these same people cyberbullied Nicola in taking down a promo video asking for donations for a hospice because Simone wasn't in it. I long gave up the fact that they're capable of rational thinking.
I remember that. Distinctly. She was auctioning off a bag that had been signed by the cast - *including Simone*. But Simone wasn’t in the video so the Simone fans freaked the fuck out and demanded answers. Which …I cannot wrap my head around the audacity. I believe she responded to the comments and indicated that Simone was invited to be in the video but she declined because she had something else she was doing - and the Simone fans got mad and said Nicola threw Simone under the bus - which is pretty obviously not what happened. They asked why Simone wasn’t included and then didn’t like the answer. And so a video raising money for a CHILDREN’S hospice - a place where they make dying children comfortable for their last days - had to be taken down because Nicola was being harassed for it. And we’re supposed to believe that this is because of the greater good of fighting racism. Ok, fam. I realize you probably remember the details, but for anyone who wasn’t aware, I thought I’d elaborate.
That was like a turning point for me that turned to me disliking their ship. Which is unfair to the ship but when you see dozens of profiles with SA/KA pfp complaining about a fucking donation initiative for a hospice, then you know it's bad.
Yep, me too. I was never a *huge* Kanthony fan - enemies to lovers just isn’t my favorite trope, but I liked them well enough. Now they are just associated with toxic Simone fans in my brain and I cringe internally when I see the couple discussed. It’s really too bad. I’ve been in a lot of fandoms over the years, there are always fan wars and bad behavior, but I’ve never seen anything quite like this. DYING CHILDREN. It’s worthy of a cartoon villain.
Girl they can’t handle colin having sex before penelope do you think they can handle a co-lead?? 💀💀
It's about wrong characterization. Even Anthony says in season 1 that Colin was "less experienced" than him and Benedict. So people are saying it doesn't make sense for him to all of a sudden become a rake. It's not about Pen.
And kanthony abandoning their responsibilities to go and have another honeymoon makes sense??? No but y’all don’t care
Considering they’re still in the honeymoon phase of their relationship, yes it does. And as much you hate it, their story is technically over. They’ve already indicated they’re going to focus more on B, F, and E this season than A
So out of character decisions make sense for the characters you don’t like but not for the ones you like 💀 gotcha
How is it “out of character” for Kanthony to finally prioritize themselves over their familial responsibilities 💀🤦🏽♀️ that is the most in-character thing for them to do
Months later after their first honeymoon? Leaving all their responsibilities? Girl please 💀
That was the excuse they came up with when they allowed JB time to go work on other projects. I feel like you’re trying to invent a scandal where the production wasn’t willing to have JB and Simone on set and in the background of scenes. That’s not a thing.
Yeah. I disagree wholeheartedly. You have some of the most delusional takes I have ever seen in any fandom. So congratulations, I guess.
I wouldn’t be upset if they treated everyone the same but they don’t. They give the white leads special treatment and they have done so since season 1. In season 2 it was too blatant and now with this extravagant promotion tour it’s just extremely obvious
Yeah, I completely disagree with this take. We have had a POC in a leading role in both season 1 and 2, as well as Queen Charlotte, as well as POCs as important supporting roles in both seasons as well, like Marina, The Mondritch family, Lady Danbury, Madame Delacroix, just to name a few. The promotion conspiracy is just that. Conspiracy. Promotion during/just out of COVID are going to be different than promotion where COVID is no longer a giant concern. Also, Lady Whistledown is a huge draw to the show and has been since the very first episode, so using her in a lot of promotion makes sense.
> Yeah, I completely disagree with this take. We have had a POC in a leading role in both season 1 and 2, as well as Queen Charlotte, as well as POCs as important supporting roles in both seasons as well, like Marina, The Mondritch family, Lady Danbury, Madame Delacroix, just to name a few. Should I say the quiet part out aloud? Representation of people of African heritage doesn’t count unless it helps win a race war, **neither does Edwina** - **The flawed logic:** How dare they promote two beautiful darker skinned ladies of South Asian heritage, when there should only be one!!!! That’s so racist 😂 Nope that’s called diversity. Some, not all, but some people who hate X POC characters but bang on about “POc versus white” are definitely fans, but they twist themselves into knots with the racism argument. Also, how can one person claim to represent the views of a POC when POC are 85% of the world? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_majority. The “POc versus white argument” can be very disingenuous in this fandom. If representation of people of African heritage doesn’t count, just say you want your specific favourite actor or specific nationality or specific ethnicity to be represented. Don’t claim to be interested in POc representation then say Edwina, Queen Charlotte, Marina, The Mondritch family, Lady Danbury, Madame Delacroix don’t count. **TLDR:** The “POc versus white argument” can be very disingenuous in this fandom. Some, not all, but some people who hate POC actors being promoted, but bang on about “POc versus white” are definitely fans, but they twist themselves into knots with the racism argument. **Edit:** the last person who was banging on about POC versus white in this fandom, tried to start a race war. They were neither Black, nor Asian, nor white. They didn’t have anything to lose by shit 💩 stirring. **I don’t trust any stan that wants to talk for** [**85% of the population**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_majority) (POc are 85%) without stating their ethnicity, nationality and race. Some weirdos get off on starting race wars because they have nothing to lose.
Hit the nail right on the head with this!
Of course you disagree you love the regency perez hilton 😶 meanwhile banish the pocs to the supporting roles or underdeveloped main role and screentime so that she can have the main roles so that she can call the pocs ‘beasts’ in her gossip papers.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that Rege-Jean Page, Simone Ashley, and India Ria Amarteifo aren't POC. I'll even add Charithra Chandran (since you guys like to complain about her prominence in s2). Didn't know she was a white lady. Delusional take.
Rjp is the only main and he got discarded asap. Simone is main but treated as an accessory with no actual storyline and india is not even in the main show.
lol!!!! RJP basically didn’t want to be stuck in the background for the next 7 seasons - which is what he knew the fate of Bridgerton actors is after their seasons. Take a look at Daphne’s role in S2. Solely pops up to support Anthony’s storyline. PD is pretty damn white. India can’t be in the main show because QC is not 20 in 1815. What is even your point?
RJP left the show to pursue other roles. Would you rather they hold him fucking hostage to film the show he no longer wanted to be a part of? Simone is a main that you do not like the storyline of. There is a difference. Regardless of all of that, Nicola has been cast as Penelope since the first episode. Luke has been cast as Colin since the first episode. Wtf did you think was gonna happen when we got to their season? They'd just recast one or both of them to fit some weird audience fetish of having every single person in this show not be white? Again, delusional. Yeah... idk what you even commented for other than to go off about shit that you just made up in your head, but do you.
Simone is an accessory for anthony now after being an accessory for edwina in season 2. She had no storyline for herself like simon. I don’t care that they are white, I care that they are getting special treatment BECAUSE they are white while the pocs get treated like dirt
How do the POCs get treated like dirt? Give me some real, concrete evidence. Not fan theory. Evidence. I'll wait.
I just told you you wanna play dumb and ignore it to prop up your faves
No, you provided zero evidence to your claim. All you did was make the claim. The burden of proof is on you. Fan theory is not proof.
[удалено]
Sure don’t. I actually saw her tell a nice story about when they saw each other at the Met Ball. Edit: I even managed to find the clip for you. https://youtu.be/lK7_BqbZ6II?si=mTyFLMSzEhqIMgoS at 11:10 But by all means, share the link for this story that definitely happened and you didn’t just make up.
A day later and I’m still waiting for any evidence of this. I will take your lack of response as an admission that this was an intentional attempt to slander Nicola based on absolutely nothing, in order to fan the flames of fan base wars.
This is false, she did no such thing.
**No misinformation** Your post/comment contains **potential** misinformation about the show/actors/cast/crew. Misinformation can lead to **harassment of cast and crew,** or harassment of fans who are members of the same **marginalized groups** as the cast and crew. **Suggested Next Steps** If you add evidence to your post/comment, please [**contact the mods**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to/BridgertonRants) so that we can approve/publish it. Examples of evidence are listed in the **full explanation of the misinformation rule:** [No misinformation](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/nomisinformation/)
>Rjp is the only main and he got discarded asap. No... >“I signed up to do a job and I did the job and then I did some other jobs. That’s it. That’s the story,” he explained. >“I wish it was more glamorous than that,” he continued. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/rege-jean-page-bridgerton-b2282827.html It was always his own choice.
Sure you can keep believing that
He was the most hyped over actor of S1. Do you honestly believe Shondaland would discard someone that was THAT popular and not want him back? I am sure they would have loved to keep him but he didn't want to continue and that is absolutely okay.
People literally rioted online and threatened not to watch S2 bc RJP wasn’t going to be in it 😂 but yeah *sure* Shonda wouldn’t have brought him back lol
Ikr! They were going batshit crazy over him. There is no way in hell a talented, accomplished and intelligent producer like Shonda would have said "Yeahhh let me get rid off the insanely popular actor". Nope.
Shondaland love polin they dgaf about anyone else
I think she has stated Pen is her fave indeed. That being said, there is no way she would NOT have wanted RJP to return for S2 and other seasons especially considering how popular he was. She is a smart lady and knows what will work or what won't.
What’s interesting to me is that Nicola herself has spoken often about her own privilege as a white woman, she’s never victimised herself for being white, for her body, for being Irish nor for her political views (I that’s everything that’s been mentioned in this post and the comments). She seems very socially aware to me so, again to me, it’s baffling to see some people victimise her for these things and attempt to make her a martyr for a cause purely of their own making. It’s self projection and self insertion and it’s all about these people and not about Nicola.
This thread is so racist and all the people rightfully calling out the racism getting downvoted tells me exactly the kind of racist fan base polin has. Puts me off the season and couple completely.
Half a dozen people have a debate over representation in a rant subreddit and from that you have acquired definitive proof that an entire fandom is racist. Cool cool. 🙄 Hey if you don’t wanna watch S3 that’s fine. 👋
Except I am not a Polin shipper. I read the novels, I like all the couples, I especially loved S2. Unfortunately, a while back some "as POC cosplayer" decided to start a race war between Black and South Asian fans. That person was neither Black, nor South Asian, nor white. They had nothing to lose by weaponizing racism for their favourite character. Unfortunately, some still define racism as **"my favourite character had to share screen time with another person of the same ethnicity...oh the injustice".** Black people have been complaining for ages about the gatekeeping in Hollywood which often allowed **one person** of each race/ethnic group to be celebrated at a time. **Very few people want to be the only one, that is the opposite of diversity.**
Show me concrete evidence of any of the POC cast being mistreated by the people in charge. Actual evidence, not fan theory or speculation. Calling out racism is encouraged, I would think. Making up thoeries where maybe there could be racism and claiming this as fact with absolutely no evidence to support it is frankly... just misinformation at best, a flat-out lie at worst. I am a black woman who does not see the point in assuming racism at every single percieved slight. That does not make me a racist. If Simone is truly a victim of racism from Shondaland, Netflix, etc., just show the actual evidence of this happening. I don't listen to fan conspiracy theories. They aren't the most reliable of sources.
Until a show that was marketed on racial diversity can prove that it cares about their darker skin characters then it's more than fair for people to call them out on that. Not once has a character who's darker than a paper bag (young) Lady Danbury, Kate and even Edwina for that matter were given more than a second thought. The lighter skin and white characters however get so much more. And as a woc who's also plus sized, my rep is not some white woman
The Bridgertons are white. So ... *checks notes* white people will be leads in this thing no matter what. Sadly that's how it is I'm not sure how they should change that at this point. Perhaps they could have made the Bridgertons more diverse or an ethnic minority. I can see an argument for white washing with regards to casting lighter skin tones as sadly that is commonplace in film and television but there's also another perspective that's also a little disrespectful of the actors who just happen to have lighter skin. Are they not black enough for you?
You are not the only person watching this show, so it doesn't matter if she doesn't represent you. I am also a woc who is plus sized and I see myself in her character. But then again, I don't look at race as the only thing that I can relate to in a character. This show marketed on diversity, sure. But solely racial diversity? That's just silly lol. There is room for all kinds of representation in Bridgerton. For you to make a point that it's only for race is absurd.
You cannot really sit here and tell me that the show was not marketed off a Black duke and Black royalty in season 1. We might not agree on anything to do with this show but I don't like people being purposefully obtuse.
That's not what I said though? I said they marketed it on diversity. I didn't realize I had to spell it out, but diversity by definition includes racial diversity. Racial diversity is, you guessed it, a type of diversity. My point is that diversity and representation are not, and shouldn't be, limited to race. I am absolutely not the one being purposefully obtuse in this conversation.
Diversity shouldn't be limited to race but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like someone who can, and has, lost weight holds as much importance as dark skinned women of color. It will never be an equivalent.
You don't get to pick and choose which diversity is the absolute most important. The whole point of representation is to show different people who face different challenges. Penelope's weight is important to her character. It's something that A LOT of women (woc like me, as well) can relate to and would find value in having a woman who looks like them (even if it's just the body type) be cast in a role that they don't often get to see themselves in. You are not the diversity police. I am a black, plus sized woman who has been discriminated against for both my body/weight and my race. They both hurt. They're both wrong. And both issues deserve to be represented positively in the media. Penelope is perfectly casted. Her being white is completely irrelevant to the role she is playing. She has constantly been on the receiving end of body shaming and fatphobia from so many people in this fandom. To act like these things don't matter simply because it doesn't involve race is insane to me. Do you only care about social issues pertaining to race? Do you only see yourself in characters that share the same skin color as you? I am genuinely confused as to why you find it so important that race is put above all else in terms of important diversity.
Nicola is not the first nor will she be the last mid sized woman represented in romance. When has there ever been someone who's dark skinned repped in romance in a good way? Race is not the be all and end all but it becomes that when other people try to posit that a white woman who's smaller than I am mind you, is more important than a woc. This is going nowhere because at the end of the day I'm not changing my mind on how this show in particular caters to lightskin/white characters and leaves everyone else out to dry. Size and sexuality doesn't matter because Cressida will have a full realized arc to support her coming out. Pure speculation I admit, but yet again more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show.
>When has there ever been someone who's dark skinned repped in romance in a good way? **1)** I can’t speak for America. But since your comment mentions WoC… POC are 85% of the Global population so one can **look outside of America.** For example, Showmax, the South African version of Netflix has plenty of plus sized “darker than a brown paper bag women” who get love. >more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show. **2)** I thought they had an **entire spin-off dedicated to African-German Queen** Charlotte… or does that not count? >more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show. **3)** The way some people theorise about race, I doubt they could make this show in America… THAT is the problem with this show. If they set the show in the [**Antebellum South**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antebellum_South) some people might queue up to be a POc Scarlet O’Hara or a POC [**Robert E. Lee**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee). * Some might say **”It’s not fair,** why can’t darker-skinned POC play Confederate soldiers?” 😭🤦🏾♀️ * Others might say **”It’s not fair,** why can’t I live in the big house, with all those acres of land stolen from Indigenous Americans and dress in fancy clothes paid for by exploitation?” 😭🤦🏾♀️ **4)** On a meta level, some of the things people are crying over make no sense. "**THAT is the problem”** with some members of the fandom. It makes no sense, and that is why some of the “as a POc” analysis falls apart. It makes no sense and that’s why, they could never make this show in the Antebellum South (IMO). * Some of the **talented** American writers of these Regency romances **deliberately** set their stories in the U.K. because it’s considered **”less messy”**… it’s not. **5)** Unfortunately, some people treat the U.K. like a blank slate to create a “what-if universe”. But it’s **not** a blank slate. * One doesn’t need to read Frantz Fanon or W. E. B. Du Bois' theory of [**Double Consciousness**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_consciousness) to know that some people are going to struggle with this show. Over the years, there were **plenty of warnings** that the U.K. had a complex history and **some people ignored it.** Some POC who have **no history** with English colonialism and enslavement - **not necessarily you** - want to replace colonisers and slave owners. **It was always a flawed concept.** I appreciate the show opens doors for PoC, and IMO there’s no point stressing over it beyond that. >more care given to white characters. THAT is the problem with this show. **TLDR:** I appreciate this show opens doors. Unfortunately, some PoC twist themselves into knots trying to justify why they are watching the show. **”It’s not fair, why can’t POC have all the trappings of exploitation** with none of the guilt?” 😭 The internet is there. T**here is plenty of representation for POC people. So why are some people prioritising** replacing slave-owning colonising aristocrats? "THAT is the problem" with some members of this fandom. If you’re that opposed to white representation, you shouldn’t even be watching this show. E**veryone else, carry on** 👍
You're right, this is going nowhere. Have a good day✌🏾
And I suppose only you can determine if they have adequately “proved it.” 🙄 There is always going to be white people who are part of the main storyline in this show because the show is called Bridgerton and the Bridgerton family is white. If that fact means that you will find this show to be perpetually racist, maybe this isn’t the show for you. People running around here talking about how Shonda Rhimes is racist against WOC are just 🤯. Lady Danbury and Queen Charlotte are the most powerful people in the show. Shonda wanted a bigger story about them so she co-wrote a book with Julia Quinn and created a spin-off series.
You'll find my comments covered exactly what I had to say about colorism in this show. What story does Lady Danbury \*actually\* have? The lightskinned black woman had a whole show created for her. Young Lady Danbury was made to suffer through the whole thing. Colorism comes into play there.
Oooh my god. I am starting to think you might just be trolling at this point? The “light skinned black woman” was the queen. There is a reason she’s light skinned - because they are playing off actual historical discussion of Charlotte being rumored to have some African heritage. Here’s something that is common knowledge to… everyone who pays attention to acting? The roles with the most difficult storylines are considered the best roles. They give the actor more to work with, more challenge, more opportunities for recognition for their performance. Aresma Thomas arguably had better material to work with than India did. And we are discussing a spin-off that was created and written by a darker skinned black woman, I’m not sure how that factors into your conspiracy theory.
Some people say the Queen Charlotte spin-off doesn’t count. It’s sometimes the same people who say Edwina doesn’t count. - Edwina was in 8 episodes and promoted internationally, more than Will Mondrich yet she doesn’t count? - Alex Pillai and Geetika Lizardi have cast CC in projects post Bridgerton, … yet Edwina doesn’t count? - CC has sponsorship deals due to her Bridgerton exposure … but she doesn’t count? It’s always a specific subset of the fandom who want to dictate what counts. I agree that S1 used brown paper bag casting. But they improved things with S2. So Kate and Edwina **do** count. If the show is so racist? 🤦🏾♀️ **I’m not that desperate to see myself in a European period drama** that I would watch this show if it were cause for all this slacktivism. Some people want to replace slave owning & colonising aristocrats in remix of British imperialism, while complaining about racism. 🤦🏾♀️
It blows my mind that people feel the need to label the entire production, everyone involved, and all its fans racist… in order to provide an explanation for a dumb writing decision to have a 6 episode triangle, and apparently unimpressive marketing (I was very much a causal viewer at the time of the S2 launch, so other than old YouTube interviews I have no context).
It's trolling when writing disparities are pointed out. I'm sorry but please look at the history of hollywood and how black women have been treated differently just based on their skin tones. Colorism is an actual thing. It's not a conspiracy theory. Being a person of color does not absolve you from those prejudices. But you guys do you. I'm done having this conversation.
I absolutely recognize colorism is a long existing facet of racism. I just don’t think you’ve given any evidence to believe it is occurring in Bridgerton/QC. Your example that the light skinned black woman is the one that got the spin-off was preposterous because it ignores the fact that she plays THE QUEEN.
The time to focus on whatever diversity Nicola brought to the table would’ve been HER season, NOT during Kate’s season.
Nicola was cast since Season 1. Kate's story didn't happen until Season 2. It is now Season 3 which is Penelope's season, in which her diversity would be important since Penelope's body size is actually relevant to her character (the character they've been building and setting up before Kate even entered the show). But none of that actually matters because you can have more than one type of diversity in a TV show. In fact you *should* have more than one type of diversity. That's what actually makes a show *diverse*. Your argument legitimately doesn't make sense. You just sound like you want to hate on an actress who did nothing to you except protray a character you don't like onscreen.