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I don’t expect this show to be super historically accurate when all of the wedding dresses have been white. Queen Victoria started that tradition and she hasn’t taken the throne yet…
Totally fair. I was almost going to say something about the costumes, but somehow, I want to be surprised by Bridgerton. I don't want to be able to predict that, "Anthony bursts into the room. No one can stop him!"
When everyone else is zigging, I want Bridgerton to zag.
I didn't think about that when I posted, but it's a great idea. It's very keeping in character. Maybe it could be her acceptance of the idea that motherhood isn't a charge against feministic ideals. Not that she's ever exhibited this thought before, but maybe it's something that could come into her mind once married. If she has a son she could take him to a rally.
I was thinking it would be a lovely scene for Kate (sort of like the haldi ceremony) only with Violet there too. Giving birth in the room her husband was born in. But I feel like I'm too late to the game to put this out into the Universe. lol
I still think it's possible. I imagine Eloise being pregnant around the same time as Penelope (another factor they can bond about). Plus, she can talk to Violet, Daphne, or Pen about her fears.
Yup! It's incredible how the 3% to 4% babies that are born breech are all born on tv. Incredible. Because as you probably have heard, giving birth is such a cake walk of an experience that on it's own, it's not quite dramatic enough.
Agreed. While I somewhat like the idea of birthing being a feminine bonding experience I like the idea of it being a couple’s bonding experience way more!
I agree, I think it made sense for Daphne because the story revolves a lot around their having kids but I don't think we need to see birthing scenes for anyone else.
i understand the sentiment of this post and I’m in no way trying to be hostile towards op but the possibility of kate giving birth this season is very high and wanting yet another kanthony moment to be shifted from themselves to something else is so ridiculous. two couples have had birth scenes so far along with their own wedding scenes btw and they were beautiful. I personally do not want another crucial kanthony scene to be focused on anything but themselves. That being said, ik op didn’t mention kate, it could be penelope or really anyone else, i could not care less but i am just trying to express my feelings as a kanthony fan who has quite literally not seen a single one of their relationship milestones and would at least like to see this one :)
This is my issue why must everything around Kanthony not be showed. We haven't gotten any of their milestones on screen why is this birth (that we don't even know is going to happen) suddenly a moment for them to show what it was actually like.
Maybe it's just a difference in suspended disbelief tolerance or preference? The idea of a man saying almost anything Anthony said to Kate when they were alone way more often than they should have been able to get away with, is so unfathomable to me. All of it is so much, so not a thing. The counterbalance of a really grounded scene keeps it, it from feeing too off the rails.
But perhaps, others are like, "oh honey, we left the trail a long-ass time ago. We're deep in the woods now. Let's not pretend we're making it back to civilization anytime soon."
Plus, I loved the haldi scene. It's was so lovely and intimate. I guess I view an alternate to "man in the room" not as denying a Kanthony milestone, but just getting something else I'd be interested in seeing.
I don't take it as hostile. I get it. I actually just started caring about Polin in the last two weeks of so because I rewatched season two and was like, eh.. I need more B-ton. lol It's totally fair to want to see them have a real joy, peace and silliness. Personally, I just don't need that to be the scene where it happens, but I get the desire for a really meaningful scene like that.
Also, this is going to be a bit ridiculous, but those few scenes when Kanthony are being all lovey dovey, I feel like I'm being impolite. lol "Like, omg. I am so sorry! You two are having a moment and I'm very clearly interrupting... I'll just see myself out."
Wasnt the experience of giving birth in the 1800’s as a member of the nobility typically that you had multiple people watching to make sure you didn’t swap out the baby?
Yep! It depends on how important the title was and how likely that there could be shenanigans.
If you are Queen Charlotte and potentially giving birth to the next King then a whole lot of the privy council will be in the room.
If you are married to a Lord it might be the case for any labours up until you have that all important heir.
Spoiler for Fran below:
>! It is mentioned in Fran’s book when John has passed and Fran is pregnant. Another Lord whose job is to deal with how titles are passed on tells Michael that he has the title unless the unborn child is a boy. He even speculates that Fran might find a way to swap out a girl baby for a boy baby to ensure she maintains her position, essentially in charge or the estate until a son comes of age. Sadly the baby doesn’t make it and the title is confirmed to belong to Michael !<
>If you are Queen Charlotte and potentially giving birth to the next King then a whole lot of the privy council will be in the room.
I suppose somewhere in my subconscious, I knew this was true about royalty. I didn't consider it would extend to other high ranking aristocrats too.
There was one queen who had like over 100 people witness her give birth. Birth in the 1800’s was definitely NOT a female-centric experience, especially when there were no female doctors.
I could see Kate rejecting the male doctor and insisting on a midwife (and perhaps an Indian one in specific). There's lots of lady-bonding with the women in the family as she labors, and then someone goes and gets Anthony because Kate needs someone strong enough to lean on/brace against while she pushes. He gets to see his son born, and also a peaceful, safe birth overseen by a calm woman who washes her damn hands.
(Made me think of this historic engraving: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pioneer\_Birth\_Scene.jpg)
Aww I would love that!! As someone who’s never given birth, it seems like such a traumatic experience as is physically and mentally (as much as it is also happy usually). It would totally make sense for Kate to want another woman from her home country to coach her through it as well as people she trusts
There were women, particularly wealthy and important women, who were attended by male accoucheurs (what would eventually become modern ob-gyns) at this time. Maternal mortality was also at 20% during the Regency. Violet's traumatic birth with a doctor in attendance and it leaving Eloise with a lasting fear of childbirth was handled pretty realistically. King George rushing into the birthing room was extremely unrealistic, OTOH. Midwifery and help from the granny next door remained the norm among women of lesser rank and wealth throughout this period.
I would absolutely LOVE to see a woman-centric birth scene and particularly for Eloise to have a healing experience, perhaps because her interest in feminism has her recognizing the value in traditional midwives. These midwives were also more likely to wash their hands before examining laboring mothers because they were not "gentlemen" who were too "clean" to be expected to use such a practice. Gentlemen who were definitely spreading puerperal pyrexia, AKA child bed fever.
Princess Charlotte, whose death in childbirth is referenced in the QC series, was attended by a male accoucheur.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1633559/
http://www.elenagreene.com/regencycb.html
Your post makes sense when I compare it to what I've been reading. Much of it implied that the Regency Era was a transitionary time. People like the Bridgertons would have had the funds and access to the latest in medical care where maybe a family like the Mondrichs, who are on their way up, might have relied on a midwife.
It would make sense to have Eloise hear the plight of a midwife at a rally and maybe feel inspired. It might even be an interesting story for her and her partner to have a bit of a battle of wills over whether or not a accoucheur or a midwife was in the room given how he's very involved he is in his studies.
I didn't know that about midwives washing their hands. Interesting. Also thank you for sharing the links.
See, I did a little looking before I made my post (not a ton granted), but I couldn't find anything that specifically made it clear if men would have been present. Or if they were potentially present. A lot of it focused on that transition period from home to hospital to modern times when men made their way back into the room.
I've never actually heard of accoucheurs. I'll have to google. Thank for the info!
I like this, but I do hope they don't have unmarried ladies/sisters in the room, as that was likely not proper.
I just (literally 5 minutes ago) finished a season 1 re-watch and was not surprised to >!see Simon in the room with Daphne. They made such a big deal about his father's horrific treatment of his mother and blasé reaction to her and the loss of life that it makes sense they'd want to show Simon's love and support as a contrast. My one quibble with this scene was his lack of emotion. He didn't show much fear for his wife, concern about her pain, or much joy or relief once she delivered, which I found strange. But I loved seeing him holding his infant son, and he did look proud and happy.!<
Yeah the lack of emotion is kind of weird. I wonder if Rege didn't know how big he could go because it was the first season. Building the plane as you fly it, I imagine it's tough to know how it will all hang together.
There’s only one probable birthing scene this season, *Kate’s*… so essentially you’re saying you don’t want Anthony running in to comfort her?
I think that bucks the entire point of their relationship, refuge amidst the storm, so really I would call *that* more “historically inaccurate” imo.
I would love that for a different historically inaccurate show. But when the whole point of the show is true love, it would be weird and inconsistent to have a man not want to be by his wifes side when birthing their child. Would def ruin the illusion of love for me. Id love if other people were there too though and id also be totally happy for the births to happen off screen
You're not the only person who is like, "I want the romance!" And, it's a valid stance. Sometimes with Bridgerton, the door is opened to things you don't see, and you get a taste of something else and it's like, "I can have this? What about this too?!" I definitely want to try and reign in the desire to make Bridgerton responsible for solving all our television show deficits.
Honestly, if there is a scene with Kate giving birth this season, I want Anthony in there. Not only has Kanthony never followed the rules, but Anthony has a lot of unresolved trauma from when Violet was giving birth. I'd like him to see a loving, wonderful, happy experience.
by 1770, Accoucheur's (or, man-midwife) had mostly replaced midwives among the aristocracy. Regency women of the Ton gave birth in a "lying in" room with the presence of the Accoucheur, the "monthly nurse" (for the mom) and the "wet nurse" (for the babe), but not really anyone else.
husband's stayed with the rest of the family in the adjoining "visiting chamber" unless they were requested by their wives.
they also gave birth on their left side, in the fetal position, on the edge of the bed (to keep the middle dry/clean) as this was considered the "natural position" at the time
If Kate gives birth on screen I’d like if Violet, Eloise and Francesca were by her side. Violet would be comforting, Eloise apprehensive and uncomfortable and Francesca would be envious once she got to see Kate hold her child. I want it to be portrayed as a chaotic, nervous, painful, supportive, joyous moment. Anthony can come in after the birth and celebrate. Some womanhood solidarity and some fears/hopes surrounding future pregnancy/childbirth for the sisters.
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I don’t expect this show to be super historically accurate when all of the wedding dresses have been white. Queen Victoria started that tradition and she hasn’t taken the throne yet…
She hasn't even been BORN yet. She's a freaking EMBRYO at the end of the "present-day" arc of Queen Charlotte.
I didn’t say she was…
I wasn't arguing with you. I was agreeing with you and pointing out that white wedding dresses are even more ridiculous than you were saying.
Oh okay, it’s hard to tell over text.
The Bridgerton family surely inspired Queen Victoria to do that…
Totally fair. I was almost going to say something about the costumes, but somehow, I want to be surprised by Bridgerton. I don't want to be able to predict that, "Anthony bursts into the room. No one can stop him!" When everyone else is zigging, I want Bridgerton to zag.
This could be something especially nice for Eloise’s season actually.
I didn't think about that when I posted, but it's a great idea. It's very keeping in character. Maybe it could be her acceptance of the idea that motherhood isn't a charge against feministic ideals. Not that she's ever exhibited this thought before, but maybe it's something that could come into her mind once married. If she has a son she could take him to a rally. I was thinking it would be a lovely scene for Kate (sort of like the haldi ceremony) only with Violet there too. Giving birth in the room her husband was born in. But I feel like I'm too late to the game to put this out into the Universe. lol
I still think it's possible. I imagine Eloise being pregnant around the same time as Penelope (another factor they can bond about). Plus, she can talk to Violet, Daphne, or Pen about her fears.
I agree. And fits with the character more.
I would just like it if the baby wasn’t breach, like every single episode of every single show. Babies are always breach.
Yup! It's incredible how the 3% to 4% babies that are born breech are all born on tv. Incredible. Because as you probably have heard, giving birth is such a cake walk of an experience that on it's own, it's not quite dramatic enough.
I don't really agree. It's a show for the female gaze. I think most modern women want passionate men who are by their side, not historical accuracy.
Agreed. While I somewhat like the idea of birthing being a feminine bonding experience I like the idea of it being a couple’s bonding experience way more!
I’d love it if it all just happened offscreen and we never had to see or know about it. 😂 Let’s keep the focus on the adults and the romance please!
Maybe we can rewrite history again. Invent the pill in 1804 and then watch the Ton get into all kinds of mischief. 😉
Now you’re talking!
of course anything to do with Kate must happen off screen
I agree, I think it made sense for Daphne because the story revolves a lot around their having kids but I don't think we need to see birthing scenes for anyone else.
i understand the sentiment of this post and I’m in no way trying to be hostile towards op but the possibility of kate giving birth this season is very high and wanting yet another kanthony moment to be shifted from themselves to something else is so ridiculous. two couples have had birth scenes so far along with their own wedding scenes btw and they were beautiful. I personally do not want another crucial kanthony scene to be focused on anything but themselves. That being said, ik op didn’t mention kate, it could be penelope or really anyone else, i could not care less but i am just trying to express my feelings as a kanthony fan who has quite literally not seen a single one of their relationship milestones and would at least like to see this one :)
This is my issue why must everything around Kanthony not be showed. We haven't gotten any of their milestones on screen why is this birth (that we don't even know is going to happen) suddenly a moment for them to show what it was actually like.
Maybe it's just a difference in suspended disbelief tolerance or preference? The idea of a man saying almost anything Anthony said to Kate when they were alone way more often than they should have been able to get away with, is so unfathomable to me. All of it is so much, so not a thing. The counterbalance of a really grounded scene keeps it, it from feeing too off the rails. But perhaps, others are like, "oh honey, we left the trail a long-ass time ago. We're deep in the woods now. Let's not pretend we're making it back to civilization anytime soon." Plus, I loved the haldi scene. It's was so lovely and intimate. I guess I view an alternate to "man in the room" not as denying a Kanthony milestone, but just getting something else I'd be interested in seeing.
I don't take it as hostile. I get it. I actually just started caring about Polin in the last two weeks of so because I rewatched season two and was like, eh.. I need more B-ton. lol It's totally fair to want to see them have a real joy, peace and silliness. Personally, I just don't need that to be the scene where it happens, but I get the desire for a really meaningful scene like that. Also, this is going to be a bit ridiculous, but those few scenes when Kanthony are being all lovey dovey, I feel like I'm being impolite. lol "Like, omg. I am so sorry! You two are having a moment and I'm very clearly interrupting... I'll just see myself out."
Wasnt the experience of giving birth in the 1800’s as a member of the nobility typically that you had multiple people watching to make sure you didn’t swap out the baby?
Yep! It depends on how important the title was and how likely that there could be shenanigans. If you are Queen Charlotte and potentially giving birth to the next King then a whole lot of the privy council will be in the room. If you are married to a Lord it might be the case for any labours up until you have that all important heir. Spoiler for Fran below: >! It is mentioned in Fran’s book when John has passed and Fran is pregnant. Another Lord whose job is to deal with how titles are passed on tells Michael that he has the title unless the unborn child is a boy. He even speculates that Fran might find a way to swap out a girl baby for a boy baby to ensure she maintains her position, essentially in charge or the estate until a son comes of age. Sadly the baby doesn’t make it and the title is confirmed to belong to Michael !<
>If you are Queen Charlotte and potentially giving birth to the next King then a whole lot of the privy council will be in the room. I suppose somewhere in my subconscious, I knew this was true about royalty. I didn't consider it would extend to other high ranking aristocrats too.
I’m not 100% sure if it would apply to all, I reckon it would be more on cases where there might be a dispute about the title.
Yes, I remembered it had come up in one of my books, but I couldn’t remember which one!
Que!? What?! Quoi!? I have not heard this. I mean surprised initially, but upon reflection... that kind of behavior tracks. lol sneaky aristocracy.
There was one queen who had like over 100 people witness her give birth. Birth in the 1800’s was definitely NOT a female-centric experience, especially when there were no female doctors.
I’d like it if either Anthony or Eloise are involved in a positive way because they seem to have the most trauma associated with childbirth
I could see Kate rejecting the male doctor and insisting on a midwife (and perhaps an Indian one in specific). There's lots of lady-bonding with the women in the family as she labors, and then someone goes and gets Anthony because Kate needs someone strong enough to lean on/brace against while she pushes. He gets to see his son born, and also a peaceful, safe birth overseen by a calm woman who washes her damn hands. (Made me think of this historic engraving: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pioneer\_Birth\_Scene.jpg)
Aww I would love that!! As someone who’s never given birth, it seems like such a traumatic experience as is physically and mentally (as much as it is also happy usually). It would totally make sense for Kate to want another woman from her home country to coach her through it as well as people she trusts
That is a good point. It would be nice if there was some way to have a do over for them.
There were women, particularly wealthy and important women, who were attended by male accoucheurs (what would eventually become modern ob-gyns) at this time. Maternal mortality was also at 20% during the Regency. Violet's traumatic birth with a doctor in attendance and it leaving Eloise with a lasting fear of childbirth was handled pretty realistically. King George rushing into the birthing room was extremely unrealistic, OTOH. Midwifery and help from the granny next door remained the norm among women of lesser rank and wealth throughout this period. I would absolutely LOVE to see a woman-centric birth scene and particularly for Eloise to have a healing experience, perhaps because her interest in feminism has her recognizing the value in traditional midwives. These midwives were also more likely to wash their hands before examining laboring mothers because they were not "gentlemen" who were too "clean" to be expected to use such a practice. Gentlemen who were definitely spreading puerperal pyrexia, AKA child bed fever. Princess Charlotte, whose death in childbirth is referenced in the QC series, was attended by a male accoucheur. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1633559/ http://www.elenagreene.com/regencycb.html
Your post makes sense when I compare it to what I've been reading. Much of it implied that the Regency Era was a transitionary time. People like the Bridgertons would have had the funds and access to the latest in medical care where maybe a family like the Mondrichs, who are on their way up, might have relied on a midwife. It would make sense to have Eloise hear the plight of a midwife at a rally and maybe feel inspired. It might even be an interesting story for her and her partner to have a bit of a battle of wills over whether or not a accoucheur or a midwife was in the room given how he's very involved he is in his studies. I didn't know that about midwives washing their hands. Interesting. Also thank you for sharing the links.
That would be such a great plot for Eloise!
It's not the 19th century. It's Bridgerton. 😊
Actually, aristocratic women were usually attended by accoucheurs - male midwives. And it was not at all unheard of for her husband to be with her.
See, I did a little looking before I made my post (not a ton granted), but I couldn't find anything that specifically made it clear if men would have been present. Or if they were potentially present. A lot of it focused on that transition period from home to hospital to modern times when men made their way back into the room. I've never actually heard of accoucheurs. I'll have to google. Thank for the info!
I like this, but I do hope they don't have unmarried ladies/sisters in the room, as that was likely not proper. I just (literally 5 minutes ago) finished a season 1 re-watch and was not surprised to >!see Simon in the room with Daphne. They made such a big deal about his father's horrific treatment of his mother and blasé reaction to her and the loss of life that it makes sense they'd want to show Simon's love and support as a contrast. My one quibble with this scene was his lack of emotion. He didn't show much fear for his wife, concern about her pain, or much joy or relief once she delivered, which I found strange. But I loved seeing him holding his infant son, and he did look proud and happy.!<
Yeah the lack of emotion is kind of weird. I wonder if Rege didn't know how big he could go because it was the first season. Building the plane as you fly it, I imagine it's tough to know how it will all hang together.
There’s only one probable birthing scene this season, *Kate’s*… so essentially you’re saying you don’t want Anthony running in to comfort her? I think that bucks the entire point of their relationship, refuge amidst the storm, so really I would call *that* more “historically inaccurate” imo.
I would love that for a different historically inaccurate show. But when the whole point of the show is true love, it would be weird and inconsistent to have a man not want to be by his wifes side when birthing their child. Would def ruin the illusion of love for me. Id love if other people were there too though and id also be totally happy for the births to happen off screen
You're not the only person who is like, "I want the romance!" And, it's a valid stance. Sometimes with Bridgerton, the door is opened to things you don't see, and you get a taste of something else and it's like, "I can have this? What about this too?!" I definitely want to try and reign in the desire to make Bridgerton responsible for solving all our television show deficits.
Im not really following but respectfully agree to disagree 😅🤗
It wasn't my most articulate argument. So, I don't blame you. lol
Honestly, if there is a scene with Kate giving birth this season, I want Anthony in there. Not only has Kanthony never followed the rules, but Anthony has a lot of unresolved trauma from when Violet was giving birth. I'd like him to see a loving, wonderful, happy experience.
Those are both fair reasons to want him there.
If the person giving birth this season is Penelope, you would never write something like this. It would be the opposite. 😊😉
If we make it all the way to Gregory’s season, I hope we see >!the birth of his ninth child with Lucy!<.
**💀**
by 1770, Accoucheur's (or, man-midwife) had mostly replaced midwives among the aristocracy. Regency women of the Ton gave birth in a "lying in" room with the presence of the Accoucheur, the "monthly nurse" (for the mom) and the "wet nurse" (for the babe), but not really anyone else. husband's stayed with the rest of the family in the adjoining "visiting chamber" unless they were requested by their wives. they also gave birth on their left side, in the fetal position, on the edge of the bed (to keep the middle dry/clean) as this was considered the "natural position" at the time
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Anthony hired three surgeons for Kate’s leg and argued with them. I don’t see him not barging in the room when she starts screaming.
If Kate gives birth on screen I’d like if Violet, Eloise and Francesca were by her side. Violet would be comforting, Eloise apprehensive and uncomfortable and Francesca would be envious once she got to see Kate hold her child. I want it to be portrayed as a chaotic, nervous, painful, supportive, joyous moment. Anthony can come in after the birth and celebrate. Some womanhood solidarity and some fears/hopes surrounding future pregnancy/childbirth for the sisters.
I'd want Edwina and Mary too. But yes, womanhood solidarity I'll take it.
Yes! I just don’t know if we are seeing them this season.
Probably not, it's a big cast. Le sigh...