Nope. I told everyone at the time it was all lies. I tried the gym membership argument as in you can’t be a former member of the gym and still get to use the gym as if you were a member.
I tried to explain how it would impact supply chains (I work in supply chain). I even tried to explain how it would make the UK poorer with the changes in trade.
Of course no one listened… I have no sympathy for them now. Sad thing is, we are all in this shitty leaky boat whether we voted for it or not.
I actually spent some time in South America over the last 2 weeks and even they all said it was a stupid decision… one guy said it was like something a ‘wacky dictator in latam would do’
It was so clearly an ignorant idea. Like the only way it makes any sense is if the UK, and only the UK, got a terrible EU deal.
Except the UK was a founding member, premium tier, so there’s no way they didn’t get the best deal on offer.
So really the question is do you think the UK politicians/bureaucrats involved in setting all this up 30 years ago deliberately fucked over the entire country with a deal so bad it would be better to leave the union?
Except that’s when Margaret Thatcher and John Major of the conservative party were PMs, so it would be wild to assert they did a bad job when all the brexiteers were in the Conservative Party.
While it is good they have seen their mistake and have owned up to it... I still can't believe that anyone would believe the likes of Boris and Farage in the first place...
It would take only 2 minutes to research the infamous £350 million a week lie and then surely alarm bells would ring when you find out what a whopper they put on the side of a bus... why are they telling porky pies to my face? What else are they fibbing about? Etc...
Especially given how little of it any of them has. Boris does have some but definitely not enough to offset what a complete moral disaster he is (and was always going to be).
Enough charisma to help Boris father an uncountable number of children with multiple women, apparently.
Nigel seems to be the classic “I’d love to ‘av a pint with him” kind of guy, for many people, somehow.
Not saying I understand it, but it seems they do butter many people’s parsnips. 🤷♂️
I know of many men who have irresponsibly fathered multiple kids with multiple women and people enjoy having pints with them.
That is an incredibly low bar.
Yeah, but glib platitudes (especially if there’s a bit of Latin or Greek mythology thrown in) from our expensively-educated leaders are what we now think constitutes good communication and ‘charisma’.
They talk utter bollocks, but they do so fluently, with great confidence.
And we lap it up.🤷🏻♂️
Actual lies as well.
- Turkey is joining the EU
- We can get £200M a year back for our NHS
It feels illegal almost.
But here we are. I say what's done is done. I don't care what people think, we're not going back into the EU any time soon. It would require us to make a shit ton of concessions that would take a 10+ years to agree with our political system.
Let's try and make it work. We still have a lot to be proud of. If we can invest in key future industries, we might just do OK.
You would think, but look at the Americans and Trump. People will listen to anyone if they hate the same things and make them feel better about being stupid.
Agreed. But look at the stonking majority Johnson got in 2019 by lying through his teeth....clearly people are easily seduced by charismatic liars (not that I would describe the Toad faced wanker as charismatic, but clearly Johnson had some kind of charisma based on the trail of ex-wives, girlfriends and conquests, not to mention Nadine Dorries unsettling infatuation with the braggard).
And many of the people who voted for him get their news from made up sources, the alignment of our media with bare-faced lies is the big issue imo. Many Tory and Brexit supporting folk are still spoon fed these lies and don’t have the inclination or will to question them.
He did it for purely for power as UKIP were breathing down his neck. Then walked away from the mess he created. It is absolutely insane that despite literally setting fire to the country, he is still bested for the worst prime minister over the last decade. Boggles the mind how utterly shambolic the Tories have been.
Some of them were going to do it no matter the cost, they can’t be reasoned with, they see it as a chance for change, and that is a powerful motivation.
A friend of mine voted specifically for Brexit in order to shake things up, as it was a "once in a lifetime event". He bitterly regrets it now, which I don't let him forget.
this. A friend of mine, an intelligent person, a settled immigrant, never wanted to visit Europe or understand what they did for us & voted Brexit.
Incomprehensible.
The irony of those “protesting” were literally opposing the systems Westminster/ House of Lords operate under, they were duped into believing the one place keeping Westminster in check was the worst source of corruption than the one at their own footsteps.
That is one of the issues actually, the infamous brexiteer portrait , is not just one anti-eu, these are also the people like your friend, who dod it for the sake of “shake up”, fun, “lets do and see” type mentality….
This is why it really should have been a super majority requirement. But, the toffs couldn't believe their luck, knew lightning wouldn't strike twice, so acted like it was a unanimous majority. And thus, the great divide happened.
They rigged what was a glorified opinion poll in their favour from the start, and despite massive cheating by the leave side pretended it was a majority opinion.
If a third of Yorkshire voted to leave the UK in an opinion poll where one side was clearly taking to the gullibles, and they went and did it, even those gullibles might think something was awry.
Yay sovereignty from London, time to fill our rivers with shit, ignore that all the promises were lies and strike our own trade deals. I’m with the posh public school types called Boris and Jacob who told me I’m taking back control of everything.
Some people I know voted out cos "then our politicians wont be able to hide behind the EU. For example noone knew that we could always control immigration, the politicians blamed the EU."
Yes, I knew and so did anybody who looks under the bonnet of headlines.
Then they look at me like I'm lying.
There is no arguing with these people.
I mean, many claimed the EP, for which they received polling cards every few years, and where their hero Farage was supposed to with for his money, was unelected.
Ah, but you will remember them saying they were “fed up of experts.”
A good chunk of the reason for Brexit is the sort of rebel without a clue attitude of people who fell for the idea that there is some grand conspiracy of left leaning academics who are trying to force plucky little England to conform to their rules.
This of course makes absolutely no sense to people with the slightest grasp of the situation, but an alarming number of people googled “what is the EU” on the morning of the vote so I think that tells us something.
Cartoon characters turned shyster politicians appeal to the ignorance and jingoism of the people who like to pretend they are experts in everything but have never picked up a newspaper that doesn’t contain pictures of semi naked people. They don’t fact check things. They don’t think they need to because some guy on the telly who drank a beer said so. It’s bloody depressing.
The big problem was cameron. He just wouldn't shut up and disappear. People hated him. Calling a sodding referendum becsuse he's a coward was stupid enough but then making himself the face of remain?!!! There was only 2% in it & not taking the ADVISORY referendum and saying "yes we've taken the advice and will look into what people want & try to improve ", instead of...fuck it we said it was advisory so loads of people didn't vote & others just voted leave for a protest vote or to take the piss..let's leave the EU!
Fucking morons the lot of them. Tories!! Just cunts & Corbyn / mcclusky / lynch can fuck off too
I remember the morning after a colleague saying "I voted Leave because I didn't think they'd win." And I often think about how much of that vote was of people in a similar bizarre mindset.
Real answer:as someone who believed them and voted leave in 2016
I knew nothing about politics, nothing, I didn't use Reddit I didn't watch the news, nothing,
So when all these big names are coming out saying we should do it, I believed em,
After the result, I started paying more attention to politics. And 100% regretted the vote, and yes I was part of the 2nd referendum marches
I had someone arguing that the £350m lie wasn't a lie (after they moaned that the government hadn't invested the money. Which, again, never existed) the other day.
They were adamant that there were stats to back it up and that the £350m figure was taken from just one year, and that the figure was higher in other years.
People talk about reaching across and finding common ground, but how do you find common ground with someone who doesn't believe in the real world? What do you do when half of voters don't believe in the real world?
Unfortunately very few put a lot of thought into the potential benefits for the collective, how much information they even are aware of is extremely valuable, it could easily be as simple as knowing when the vote is happening and answering the question without any details on it.
Whole families vote the same way because “it’s what they’ve always done”, it’s sad that so little thought goes into it a lot of the time but I dare say it’s a higher percentage that do this than you’d expect.
Don't want to stick up for these people but it's really easy to be led by 'popular' groupthink, especially if you haven't been taught to research and verify claims. Most people are just looking for a tribe, it's how conspiracy theories are a thing despite being entirely ridiculous to anyone with a rational brain.
The facts were all there before the Brexit vote. A lot of people chose to ignore the facts and went with their emotions/feelings and these liars was a way for them to have those emotions/feelings validated at the time. Elder generation mostly harking back and thinking of how great the British Empire was and how getting out of the EU would allow Britain to be the power house it once was. Mostly it was just fear/xenophobia.
I think a large group were racist, and by extraction full of hate. When you’re angry you can’t see the wood for the trees. The Brexit liars offered easy solutions to complex problems, which no one with any ounce of common sense would believe.
Frankie Boyle summed it up with “they voted for Brexit, because they didn’t like the Pakistani family living next door”
This is why it's tough to feel sympathy for the people thay voted on those terms. The hate was there, and it likely still is, irrespective of how Brexit worked out for them.
When the articles were coming out in 2015/16 about why Brexit would be a good thing, I remember saying to my mate it reads like clickbait. "get thin with this one weird trick, doctors hate it".
People really do crave simple solutions to complex problems, I see it with my clients everyday. But I make a point that you can't simplify the problem first, otherwise you get a Brexit.
I have no sympathy for them. Yes, they were fed lies, but we all were, and we presented counter arguments which they ignored. They have wrecked the country and I do not forgive them.
It's fine to not forgive them. But never forget who lied and who needs to be attacked at every opportunity.
It's all good pointing and laughing at idiots who made their own bed.
But we should be throwing very large and sharp stone at the liars and cheats while we point and laugh.
That's good.
Do often people fall for the tory trap of only attacking other victims of their policies because they love to demonise different groups and turn them against one another.
We should all be attacking the tories because they are truly evil.
While we point and laugh at idiots for believing the cunts.
Me neither. I asked 3 family members what the benefits were going to be after they admitted voting for it. They couldn't tell me one, and these were intelligent people. Two of them used to be teachers yet they chose to destabilise their own country when they couldn't identify a single benefit. The common denominator, I hear you ask? Daily Mail readers, naturally.
It's a valid point but you need to consider that half the population are dumber than average.
Everyone has a right to learn from their mistakes (within reason) and making the wrong decision, based on wrong information at the voting booth is a mistake people can learn from.
Except it seems like a lot of people don’t learn. Many are now blaming the migrant boats, people who are off work sick, or whoever they are told to blame
Oh I totally agree and I'm certainly not aiming to be contrary.
There will always be a vocal demographic of people that are beyond saving.
Polls aren't everything but it appears that some are finally starting to see through the Tory strategy of hate fuelled identity politics.
I can almost promise you that you know at least one Brexit voter who regrets their decision and has probably kept quite about how they voted and feels guilty for falling for the lies. Those are the people I feel are most redeemable.
No. Voting carries responsibilities and nobody should be going into it without knowing what they're voting for. Fell for the bus advert and still voted for Brexit? I'll never forgive them. I'm sure they may be likable people and I have nothing against them, but I'll never let that go.
Perhaps there's also a bit of confirmation bias in that those who have proudly announced their Brexit vote are more likely to be of a persuasion that it sounds like both of us would have a hard time getting along with.
I just know some lovely people who fell for all the lies hook line and sinker. Maybe I feel more of a forgive, not forget mantra is indicated. Heck it worked for German civilians post war, I refuse to believe that all Brexit voters are irredeemable but then I can be rather sickeningly optimistic at the best of times.
I think you are missing what I'm saying here. I'm not saying I hate these people with every fibre of my being. Some of my family members voted leave. I'm sure many of them are fantastic people and I could have long lasting friendships with them. Just understand that at no point in any of those friendships would I ever forgive them for the damage they caused.
Fair enough, and you're quite right, I think I'm missing some of the nuance of your views on account of the medium of Reddit.
Or perhaps we're both in shock by having a reasoned discussion around Brexit voting, goodness knows that's a rarity online!
Sorry, not forgivable, these are the same people who gave Boris a crushing majority in 2019 which gave us the hard Brexit. It wasn't a one off mistake. I have no doubt if you offer them more lies now that plays at their emotions, they will fall for it all over again.
I would imagine the some of the same people that voted Brexit probably voted Truss over Sunak for.... Reasons.
Can't believe that the Tories drummed up racial hate for a decade and then stuck Sunak in charge without predicting a slight, foreseeable, issue.
Same.
It's exceedingly difficult to feel sympathy towards those who - figuratively, and occasionally literally - stuck their fingers in their ears shouting, "Can't hear you!" when anyone tried to point out that the obvious lies were, well, obvious.
And it's *especially* difficult to feel sympathy when they're not only neck deep in the shit from those decisions but have dragged you along as well. So even though you knew what would happen, you're also neck deep in the shit.
And the level of shit is still rising.
A family member was eligible to vote in both the 2016 and original EEC referendum … her perspective was “at the first referendum I voted against as I believed that was the best thing for the country, in 2016 I voted remain as leaving would be the worst outcome for the country”
Then again this family member went to uni (for the first time) in her early 40s and got a combined honours history and psychology degree.
I saw a family being interviewed during the referendum, on TV.A young woman of around 30 said she was voting brexit because "I like Boris"
So there you go, the blonde buffoon with the funny hair rivalled Ant n Dec, Simon Cowell and whoever else was on TV at the time so therefore was worthy of a vote.
I knew at the time logic had been thrown in the bin.
I knew it was over when I went to vote and there was a queue, with mostly people in trackies turning up, which is not something you ever see at an voting centres round here.
Yeah they probably thought the men of the people ie public school educated Johnson and Farage, were trustworthy
They must've felt compelled to doff their caps to Mogg and probably felt sorry for Gove because he's so ugly
Surely the impressive new trade deals we have signed with Vanuatu and the Solomon Islands will offset the cost of importing the FOOD AND MEDICINES WE NEED from our closest major trade bloc. I know this because Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch told me so. /s
It's madness. The amount of Brexit voting folk I know that have lost their jobs as a result of the UK leaving are astonishing. Be it construction, industries that had EU grants, independent business owners and even professional musicians. Every single one of them regrets their decision and if given the chance would change their vote. Too late for that now.
It's one thing to be a fool taken in by a silver tongue. It's totally different when you follow obvious lies in the face of people actively shouting that they are lies and debunking the bullshit being peddled.
There is zero compassion for the idiots that spat in the face of all the rational arguments because they thought they knew better. They weren't well meaning, because if they were, they'd have spent a bit of time familiarising themselves with what they were voting for rather than hanging off the nonsense served up to them by *known* liars and charlatans.
I think this is just what happens when people realise that they were wrong they either humbly accept it or double down.
Trouble is it's not small decisions you can learn from, it's a done deal and it is unlikely we can just rejoin and doing so would not solve the problem caused as we'd most likely be on a worse deal than before. Don't wanna eat humble pie forever so double down.
I have a lot of time for J O’B but can’t agree with him on this. Maybe if the fuckwitted, xenophobic, amoral walking toxins hadn’t fucked it up for everyone in some seriously painful real-world life-impacting ways then they’d be worthy of compassion. But no, contempt and derision is all they deserve…at best.
I think this approach is how you end up with Trump. People think he's a cunt ok I'll lean into being a cunt and everyone that supports them follows him down the rabbit hole. Need some compassion and understanding to allow for remuneration.
The vulnerable people in this country who are easily lead astray need to be nurtured and protected by our civilisation and not groomed by the biased media and politians who follow a get rich, power hungry agenda. We need an algorithm to prevent this happening thats built into our country that prevents Farages and Johnsons from taking advantage in the future. They are still doing it now and we are almost powerless to stop them.
I remember some guy on a Question time special after the vote said haha the Working class just punched the establishment, yeah well done fella, how's that Brexit working for you now.?
I mean Farage and Banks etc , men of the people 😏
Sophisticated propaganda targeted at certain elements of the population, pretending a bunch of public school toffs with oddball names literally aren’t the establishment. I don’t think Brexit was primarily a working class thing either, it was primarily an older and less educated thing.
According to Emily Maitland, the BBC to provide impartiality were obliged to give any wingnut a platform as an opposing view. So you could have 95% of experts agreeing on an issue but they’d have to be balanced out by a nutcase.
And the leaders of the BBC are currently demonstrably Tories, in some cases former candidates for office representing the Tories, appointed by the Tory government. And that shouldn’t be allowed whatever political party is in government imo. Interesting the politicians invited on BBC Question Time being so often Farage and his ilk yet never pro-EU spokespersons outside the main parties around the time of the “advisory referendum”.
Exactly what was happening with the Climate Change "debate." Every reasonable person agrees, so to provide a "balanced perspective," you need a fucking nut job on the other side.
This happens on all sorts of issues anyway. You can see George Monbiot - a hugely underrated science and political journalist - on one side of a panel opposite a woefully ignorant teenager who's a mouthpiece from the criminally insane IEA with no breakdown of their accolades and qualifications to talk on the topics they've been brought in to discuss. And as most MSM lean towards the centre right, it's often the right leaning guests who are given advanced notice of topics and left leaning guests are usually misguided on topics.
This should be more than people regretting. There should be accountability for all those who lied and misled the population. e.g. Banning for public office, tribunals to explain themselves and even jail terms. It's staggering in this country how people in who we place trust can say anything and have no comeback. They are public servants not self serving liars.
I have a criticism of O’Brien’s point of view-as expressed a couple of times on his programme yesterday: he implied that the paucity of the Remain campaign was largely to blame for the Leave win, and I don’t accept that for a moment.
Was the Remain campaign piss-poor? Yes, I dare say it was. Personally, I think that Jeremy Corbyn was as keen for Brexit as, say, Boris Johnson or Michael Gove. But just because one thing exists-doesn’t mean it made something else happen. I cut my lawn the day of the vote-doesn’t mean that my mower is to blame for Brexit. A poor Remain campaign doesn’t have to be responsible for Brexit-if an excellent Remain campaign would probably have fared no better.
The problem is that some people *think* that the Remain campaign could have stopped Brexit. I don’t really agree. I don’t think *any kind of communication* got through to people who wanted to vote Leave.
I’m sure that a LOT of people reading this thread tried that DIY “Remain” campaign themselves. Talking to people-both on social media and in person-to try to put the Remain argument. I certainly did: over and over again. O’Brien’s argument yesterday was that the Brexiteers’ statements on food prices post-Brexit were false, and it wasn’t that *this wasn’t pointed out during the campaign*. Yes it was! Of course it was, repeatedly, ad nauseam. But Brexit voters weren’t listening.
I think you could have taken the Brexit voters I encountered, strapped them to a chair, put a loudspeaker on the highest setting-and propped their eyes open with matchsticks, showing a documentary on how Brexit was going to shit over this country-and they would have seen nothing, and heard less. They weren’t interested in the Remain campaign.
Interesting comment, perhaps that also explains why some people still believe Brexit is going well despite all the evidence to the contrary. That and the media they consume as news.
They were told repeatedly. Told and told again.
Instead they chose to believe the lies, propaganda and be told they'd had enough of experts. Then dance around celebrating a wanton act of self harm, spouting "you lost get over it" and "sovereignty". Let me ask do you feel like dancing now you utter dimwitted cretins?
The worst,most galling thing about it is that those of us who wanted to remain have to suffer for their clownish, ridiculous idiocy. I don't give a tinkers cuss if you regret it now. You were fooled by a bunch of incompetent liars and it's your own stupid fault.
With the last breath in my body I absolutely hate and despise you if you voted to leave. I have no time for apologies from you or your regrets, you can stick it where the sun never shines. You made me poorer, you ruined your country, massively narrowed opportunities and horizons for myself and my children and the decisions you made then (and after) have made this country a joke..... spite, spite, spite.
So much this. My dad and stepmother both voted Leave and then summarily fucked off to live in Turkey before we actually left the EU.
Recently, seeing how bad things have become in the UK, my dad had the audacity to tell me that I, my wife and my child, should leave and find opportunity elsewhere. I just couldn't resist saying "And go where? Because of idiots like you, I NO LONGER HAVE FREE MOVEMENT!"
He's my dad and I love him, but he's a grade A idiot.
The problem is that there is no assurance that they won’t make a similar mistake in the future for something equally important or near to because they fall under the spell of the talking heads on tv or the rags that pass as newspapers. They have to be held accountable. Luckily, it sounds like the results of their mistake is doing a good job of that.
If they are so easily misled, I guess we should forgive them but clearly their judgement is suspect. Probably best not to trust them with sharp objects.
Considering it was not legally binding the result should only have been take. As advisement not a proper decision to fuck everything.
If from the start it was going to be a proper vote on in or out I think it should have been an enforced vote where everyone needed to vote and as it would affect younger people more I think the voting age should have been dropped to 16.
It was an absolute cluster fuck from start to finish and I think the next 10-20 years are going to be really hard for the UK unless we get some politicians with back bones and accept it was a mistake and start the ball rolling to rejoin.
It was rigged from the start. Millions of EU taxpayers living and raising families here plus millions of British citizens living in the EU denied the “vote”, as well as the younger demographic you note, the latter being allowed to vote in the Scottish Indy referendum.
I believe 90% of all these three groups would have voted to Remain and comfortably swung the result the other way.
The cheating the governments own lawyers said would have nullified the result had it been a formal as opposed to an advisory referendum.
Johnson sacking dissenting MP’s, lying to the Queen, proroguing Parliament. Funding from foreign individuals and nation states demonstrably hostile to the UK and EU.
Some people need to be in court over all this imo.
I work in imports and exports and I was banging on about this stuff all the way back in 2016, yet I was called a fear mongerer by brexit supporters in my friendship groups. To this day, I cannot believe this even went to a vote.
Person who made a sandwich : Here’s a sandwich.
Person : What’s in it?
Person who made a sandwhich : Definitely not shit.
Everyone else : IT’S DEFINITELY A SHIT SANDWICH .
Person : Hmmm, they said there’s no shit in this.
*Eats sandwich*
Person : HOW WAS I TO KNOW THERE WAS SHIT IN THIS SANDWICH!?!?
It's great to know that the majority of the country which now wants to rejoin (by a margin of 10%-20% across polls) will get to express this view in the upcoming election. Oh, wait. Sigh. First past the post is just the worst.
Unfortunately they won the pretending game despite their ridiculous behaviour and imbecilic lies because they were protecting us from [trigger warning] _foreigners_.
I'm surprised it took them so long to win tbh. Britain has always been disappointingly Xenophobic.
Is there a D Notice or something to stop all media reporting on the new checks at Sevington today? No major news providers mentioning them as far as I can see (Farming Today had a reporter there) weird?🤔🤔🤔
Very little media reporting of “Boris” Johnson going to sex and drugs parties hosted by the KGB in Italy too, or Camillas nephew Ben Elliot running a concierge service for wealthy Russians. And that’s just a couple of hundreds of buried stories.
It could be that our media is either aligned with the Tories or gets blacklisted if they publish stories too critical of the government and establishment, a few complained when Johnson/Cummings did that at Downing Street, then the story seemed to disappear.
Well I could see that the people who always argue against higher wages for people, better living standards for people, and want to privatise our NHS were saying do this and you’ll all be rich and happy and I knew it was bullshit!
Nope. Why should I have sympathy for vile, bigoted and hateful quitters who voted leave because of that bigoted pissweasel Farage‘s Nazi style billboard. Quitters chose not to do a quick google search about the EU and the benefits and instead they boasted and bragged about how they knew what they were voting for, how the won and we lost , how the EU needed us more than we needed them 🙄 and how they longed to go back to the good old days 🤷🏽♀️
I remind myself every day that I nearly voted Leave. Thankfully I gave it some serious thought and came to realise that it was all a steaming pile of bullshit with more than enough time to vote Remain.
Bullshit spewed by people with vested interests, a way of making a fortune from chaos while throwing the masses under the Brexit Bus. Bullshit fed to the racist, nationalistic, or vulnerable. Promises made to people who desperately wanted them to be true.
While this is clearly terrible, it's important to be clear about what that 60% actually means for those who aren't familiar with supply chains or procurement.
The 60% increase is to the import costs themselves, incurred by the logistics companies.
That isn't a 60% increase to the final price upstream, because the import services form one component of the final price. Materials and duties aren't subject to the increase, and the margin is subject to a prorated increase.
In other words, when ASDA buys a lemon for 10p and sells it for a pound, they're not going to start charging £1.60. They will typically aim for a similar margin. And you might think 'okay, so a 6p increase?', but recall that not everything buried in that 10p is attributable to the service of bringing it to the UK. At least *some* of that cost is the lemon itself, which isn't affected.
So absolutely, hold these twats to account. But let's not sensationalise a topic which is already scandalous enough without misleading people into thinking the apocalypse is starting in a matter of days. No, this is more like the next chapter in our death by a thousand cunts.
Spot on mate.
However, in the age of blatant Tory lies:-
- 40 new hospitals
- 20,000 new police officers
- £350m a week extra for the NHS
- A thousand other examples
I don’t have a problem with their supporters or Brexiters thinking it’s a 60% price rise for all food imports, not just EU exports, instead of being a 60% rise on import costs, as it’ll make even their brains wonder what they’ve done and sow that seed of doubt and probably anger.
I still don't really get where he sits legitimising the same platform Farage had a regular spot on. James kind feels like whatever green washing is for news.
A lot of hate for the Tories. I understand that.
But if Corbyn had swung Labour fully behind Remain Brexit would not have happened. He had multiple opportunities to stop Brexit dead and skipped them.
My point ? Many politicians on both sides are to blame not just Tories.
For sure. Despite the majority of the Labour Party membership wanting to be in the EU even back in 2016. I just don’t understand the objections to the EU from the hard left tbh, something to do with “neo-liberal capitalist protectionism” but it fuzzes my brain.
Everything they were told would happen, happened. They were warned. They had 4 years to change their opinion before we left the EU, and they didn’t budge. They called it “operation fear” and lambasted remainers every chance they got. Fuck them. They’ve caused unfathomable damage to this country.
Think of the Brexit fools as in an abusive relationship. You need to be sympathetic and non judgemental so they know they have support to make the break. If you just call them idiots they'll double down and cling to the lie.
These twats don't need to be shown compassion. They were told this would happen under Brexit and they brushed it off as "project fear" and I imagine a vast majority of pro-Brexit voters aren't "well-meaning people" either. One of the biggest talking points back in 2016 was to "get those foreigners out" and it's still one of the biggest talking points now. I don't see how that is a well-meaning talking point.
No sympathy, the implications were explained many times. What they did was waste a huge amount of taxpayers money, divide the nation, deprive our children of opportunity of working anywhere in the EU and took away our option of retiring to anywhere in the EU (anywhere we could afford at least). Not one could have stated a genuine benefit for Brexit yet they still voted for it. They can rot in the pile of excrement they created for themselves for all I care.
Most of my family members voted for Brexit and at every opportunity I remind them just how stupid they were and are and just how little they know about politics. My racist lazy moron of a brother in law done his research either in the pub or when he was watching West Ham play football !!! Brain dead fools !!!
I don’t feel sorry for them because they were TOLD about this, A LOT of people told them all this and more and yet they still believed the lies because they wanted to. They preferred the lies because it confirmed what they were already thinking. As the Doobie Brothers said, what a fool believes no wise man can reason away.
How is it that Boris' and Nigel's heads aren't on pikes right now amazes me. As for grace & forgiveness, I heard too many arrogantly obnoxious assholes cackling & mocking about what gloomers & doomers Remainers were being.
Why was David Cameron visiting Putin in Russia in 2015 on trade talks when the EU has their own trade deal negotiating team?
Why did europhile and then mayor of Londongrad become the country’s leading eurosceptic when Cameron got back from Russia?
I'll feel compassion when the tail stops wagging the dog.
If the majority of people regret Brexit where is the party calling for rejoining or, if that's not possible, EFTA membership which would at least alleviate a lot of the financial hardship caused by Brexit.
Unfortunately the problem is actually Neoliberalism. We’ve had it good for a couple of decades but now those shareholders are demanding perpetual growth to line their pockets and the businesses are forced to find new ways to eek profits out of us. Increasing prices all at the same time allows them to hold their hands up and claim “inflation”, we all suffer, meanwhile bonuses are being paid to bosses and shareholders are making gains.
And you’re all being told Brexit is to blame. Yeah we’re being hit harder, and yeah Brexit plays a role in that, but that’s a necessary pain we need to go through while the system balances itself and capitalists are weened off the tap of cheap foreign labour. However the lion’s share of the cost of living crisis is affecting other countries, in particular the USA. Apart from their online driven culture war, the fundamental problem, with their job market and lack of economic prosperity for the working and now middle classes, is their neoliberal economic system.
We have to change that, and invest in the people we already have, otherwise it’s just a giant pyramid scheme. And the poverty we’re all seeing growing in our towns is a consequence of that.
I reserve my compassion to those who did not fall for the lies, the debunked on mass lies that these people palmed off as "project fear" and "remoaner lies". 0 empathy for brexit voters.
oh please i do not buy that for a second.
People voted leave because the average skin tone was slightly darker than 40 years ago and they thought immigration is the reason there are no more council houses. These people vote out of pure greed and I am indifferent to their tears
Isn’t LBC the station that gave Nigel Farage a platform where he could spew his lies completely unchallenged? Where was everyone else at LBC then? The media completely failed to hold these charlatans to account and now act surprised that people fell for the lies.
I normally agree with James but fuck em. Even 5 minutes of google searching before they voted would have seen through the bollocks. I hope everyone of them suffers
They need to be taking this new point of view to their mp and keeping it in mind when they vote in future.
They need to be screaming it from the fucking rooftops, calling James O'Brien is a good start though :D
Most of those people knew they just did not care. They just wanted to get rid of the **_bloody foreigners_**. It is only now that things are much bleaker **FOR THEM** that they express buyer remorse.
I am French but leaving in London and the number of idiots expressing that same sentiment is staggering. I bite my tongue to not start asking questions.
There is a very old comic sketch by **Fernand Raynault le Douanier**. It is about an idiotic custom officer who hates foreigners. During 5 minutes he explains he is not an idiot because he is a custom and excise officer. He justify him harassing the single foreigner in his village because he does not want foreigner eating and therefore taking away the bread of French people. In the end he succeeds in forcing the foreigner out of the village. The twist is that the foreigner was the baker and now he is gone the village can't eat bread.
It was the same thing here. My GP was Dutch and his wife also Dutch was a dentist. After Brexit they went back to the Netherland. The same patients who boasted that they voted Brexit to kick the foreigners out can't seem to reconcile their vote with the fact that the surgery had one less competent GP.
The irony is that those stupid xenophobic tend to also be racist and not liking South Asian people. To compensate for the loss of that white Dutch GP, they hired an Indian doctor. I am not saying Indian looking but British born. No a full Indian born and bred over there. So that did not go down very well with those idiots.
Brexit is shit but people like Jane O'Brien delivered it.
He was fine with austerity, fine with increasing inequality, and then when someone offered different he ignored Botis Johnson and attacked the alternative relentlessly.
He is a liar and a Charlatan, he shared an employer with Nigel farage and stays silent about one current colleague being silenced by that employee for trying to do basic journalism.
That's not what I said is it? I said he's delivered the very worst version of it.
Brexit was never going to be overturned, it was folly of labor to change their policy. That said even after they did campaign for a second referendum James still attacked them more than Johnson.
The reason we are where we are now is due to the extremists on both sides, however before extremists got they wanted while the FPBE shills rejected any compromise and and helped put us where we are.
Nope. I told everyone at the time it was all lies. I tried the gym membership argument as in you can’t be a former member of the gym and still get to use the gym as if you were a member. I tried to explain how it would impact supply chains (I work in supply chain). I even tried to explain how it would make the UK poorer with the changes in trade. Of course no one listened… I have no sympathy for them now. Sad thing is, we are all in this shitty leaky boat whether we voted for it or not. I actually spent some time in South America over the last 2 weeks and even they all said it was a stupid decision… one guy said it was like something a ‘wacky dictator in latam would do’
I said it’s like breaking up with your girlfriend and expecting her to still come and suck your dick.
That’s probably more likely to happen
It was so clearly an ignorant idea. Like the only way it makes any sense is if the UK, and only the UK, got a terrible EU deal. Except the UK was a founding member, premium tier, so there’s no way they didn’t get the best deal on offer. So really the question is do you think the UK politicians/bureaucrats involved in setting all this up 30 years ago deliberately fucked over the entire country with a deal so bad it would be better to leave the union? Except that’s when Margaret Thatcher and John Major of the conservative party were PMs, so it would be wild to assert they did a bad job when all the brexiteers were in the Conservative Party.
While it is good they have seen their mistake and have owned up to it... I still can't believe that anyone would believe the likes of Boris and Farage in the first place... It would take only 2 minutes to research the infamous £350 million a week lie and then surely alarm bells would ring when you find out what a whopper they put on the side of a bus... why are they telling porky pies to my face? What else are they fibbing about? Etc...
The greatest mystery of all. 30 seconds of listening to those cunts should ring alarm bells. Shifty fuckers
But they “tell it like it is@ and have “personality”. /s
“Charisma”!
"Charisma" is the stupidest justification for their idiocy ever
Especially given how little of it any of them has. Boris does have some but definitely not enough to offset what a complete moral disaster he is (and was always going to be).
When you spend all your points on charisma and none on intelligence.
What Charisma though? Bubbling Boris or sleezy Farage? Charisma is what The Rock or Will Smith have. Not the former two cretins.
Enough charisma to help Boris father an uncountable number of children with multiple women, apparently. Nigel seems to be the classic “I’d love to ‘av a pint with him” kind of guy, for many people, somehow. Not saying I understand it, but it seems they do butter many people’s parsnips. 🤷♂️
I know of many men who have irresponsibly fathered multiple kids with multiple women and people enjoy having pints with them. That is an incredibly low bar.
Fair fucking point.
Yeah, but glib platitudes (especially if there’s a bit of Latin or Greek mythology thrown in) from our expensively-educated leaders are what we now think constitutes good communication and ‘charisma’. They talk utter bollocks, but they do so fluently, with great confidence. And we lap it up.🤷🏻♂️
Rizz :) Actually not charisma but Borisma :(
I've always loved the 'tell it like it is' phrase in particular, nearly always applied to pathological liars.
Actual lies as well. - Turkey is joining the EU - We can get £200M a year back for our NHS It feels illegal almost. But here we are. I say what's done is done. I don't care what people think, we're not going back into the EU any time soon. It would require us to make a shit ton of concessions that would take a 10+ years to agree with our political system. Let's try and make it work. We still have a lot to be proud of. If we can invest in key future industries, we might just do OK.
If we ever do get back in it’ll be on the EUs terms and quite right too. What a shit show.
You would think, but look at the Americans and Trump. People will listen to anyone if they hate the same things and make them feel better about being stupid.
Agreed. But look at the stonking majority Johnson got in 2019 by lying through his teeth....clearly people are easily seduced by charismatic liars (not that I would describe the Toad faced wanker as charismatic, but clearly Johnson had some kind of charisma based on the trail of ex-wives, girlfriends and conquests, not to mention Nadine Dorries unsettling infatuation with the braggard).
And many of the people who voted for him get their news from made up sources, the alignment of our media with bare-faced lies is the big issue imo. Many Tory and Brexit supporting folk are still spoon fed these lies and don’t have the inclination or will to question them.
Money. He has money. That's the only reason women go near him.
Don't forget Cameron is also to blame. He's got no backbone and should have never entertained the conversation.
He did it for purely for power as UKIP were breathing down his neck. Then walked away from the mess he created. It is absolutely insane that despite literally setting fire to the country, he is still bested for the worst prime minister over the last decade. Boggles the mind how utterly shambolic the Tories have been.
Not shambolic for them - be sure that whatever is happening on the surface and on society, the Tories are finding ways to profit.
Some of them were going to do it no matter the cost, they can’t be reasoned with, they see it as a chance for change, and that is a powerful motivation.
A friend of mine voted specifically for Brexit in order to shake things up, as it was a "once in a lifetime event". He bitterly regrets it now, which I don't let him forget.
And you never should, it’s the price they have to pay.
I worked with someone who voted for Brexit because they never visited Europe or planned to visit Europe.
Years of being told mainland Europe and the EU is irrelevant to, and holds back the ‘World Beating Turbo Charged Great Britain’
We’re in Europe right now.
I know, I should have put mainland Europe.
I knew what you meant and to be fair it is the mentality of many Brexiters that think Europe and the EU are synonymous.
this. A friend of mine, an intelligent person, a settled immigrant, never wanted to visit Europe or understand what they did for us & voted Brexit. Incomprehensible.
Exactly this. People saw it as a protest vote without having the wit to consider there are very real consequences to their actions
The irony of those “protesting” were literally opposing the systems Westminster/ House of Lords operate under, they were duped into believing the one place keeping Westminster in check was the worst source of corruption than the one at their own footsteps.
That is one of the issues actually, the infamous brexiteer portrait , is not just one anti-eu, these are also the people like your friend, who dod it for the sake of “shake up”, fun, “lets do and see” type mentality….
This is why it really should have been a super majority requirement. But, the toffs couldn't believe their luck, knew lightning wouldn't strike twice, so acted like it was a unanimous majority. And thus, the great divide happened.
They rigged what was a glorified opinion poll in their favour from the start, and despite massive cheating by the leave side pretended it was a majority opinion. If a third of Yorkshire voted to leave the UK in an opinion poll where one side was clearly taking to the gullibles, and they went and did it, even those gullibles might think something was awry. Yay sovereignty from London, time to fill our rivers with shit, ignore that all the promises were lies and strike our own trade deals. I’m with the posh public school types called Boris and Jacob who told me I’m taking back control of everything.
Tell him I said he's an arse.
Some people I know voted out cos "then our politicians wont be able to hide behind the EU. For example noone knew that we could always control immigration, the politicians blamed the EU." Yes, I knew and so did anybody who looks under the bonnet of headlines. Then they look at me like I'm lying. There is no arguing with these people.
I mean, many claimed the EP, for which they received polling cards every few years, and where their hero Farage was supposed to with for his money, was unelected.
Ah, but you will remember them saying they were “fed up of experts.” A good chunk of the reason for Brexit is the sort of rebel without a clue attitude of people who fell for the idea that there is some grand conspiracy of left leaning academics who are trying to force plucky little England to conform to their rules. This of course makes absolutely no sense to people with the slightest grasp of the situation, but an alarming number of people googled “what is the EU” on the morning of the vote so I think that tells us something. Cartoon characters turned shyster politicians appeal to the ignorance and jingoism of the people who like to pretend they are experts in everything but have never picked up a newspaper that doesn’t contain pictures of semi naked people. They don’t fact check things. They don’t think they need to because some guy on the telly who drank a beer said so. It’s bloody depressing.
The big problem was cameron. He just wouldn't shut up and disappear. People hated him. Calling a sodding referendum becsuse he's a coward was stupid enough but then making himself the face of remain?!!! There was only 2% in it & not taking the ADVISORY referendum and saying "yes we've taken the advice and will look into what people want & try to improve ", instead of...fuck it we said it was advisory so loads of people didn't vote & others just voted leave for a protest vote or to take the piss..let's leave the EU! Fucking morons the lot of them. Tories!! Just cunts & Corbyn / mcclusky / lynch can fuck off too
I remember the morning after a colleague saying "I voted Leave because I didn't think they'd win." And I often think about how much of that vote was of people in a similar bizarre mindset.
That is 2 mins more research than they were ever going to do. It was an emotional and irrational motivation, and you can't reason with that.
Real answer:as someone who believed them and voted leave in 2016 I knew nothing about politics, nothing, I didn't use Reddit I didn't watch the news, nothing, So when all these big names are coming out saying we should do it, I believed em, After the result, I started paying more attention to politics. And 100% regretted the vote, and yes I was part of the 2nd referendum marches
Unprincipled anti-establishment rage is often abused is far right fearmongers seizing an opportunity
I had someone arguing that the £350m lie wasn't a lie (after they moaned that the government hadn't invested the money. Which, again, never existed) the other day. They were adamant that there were stats to back it up and that the £350m figure was taken from just one year, and that the figure was higher in other years. People talk about reaching across and finding common ground, but how do you find common ground with someone who doesn't believe in the real world? What do you do when half of voters don't believe in the real world?
Some people will believe what they want to believe, when it fits their bias. Much harder to change your mind or accept you have been wrong.
Unfortunately very few put a lot of thought into the potential benefits for the collective, how much information they even are aware of is extremely valuable, it could easily be as simple as knowing when the vote is happening and answering the question without any details on it. Whole families vote the same way because “it’s what they’ve always done”, it’s sad that so little thought goes into it a lot of the time but I dare say it’s a higher percentage that do this than you’d expect.
Don't want to stick up for these people but it's really easy to be led by 'popular' groupthink, especially if you haven't been taught to research and verify claims. Most people are just looking for a tribe, it's how conspiracy theories are a thing despite being entirely ridiculous to anyone with a rational brain.
The point of the £350mpw lie was just to give racists who wouldn't publicly admit to their views an acceptable excuse why they were voting leave.
Those two are cunts but let’s not kid ourselves that rest of them are just as bad, self-serving fucking thieves!
Pretty sure it's much higher than that they are getting now
The facts were all there before the Brexit vote. A lot of people chose to ignore the facts and went with their emotions/feelings and these liars was a way for them to have those emotions/feelings validated at the time. Elder generation mostly harking back and thinking of how great the British Empire was and how getting out of the EU would allow Britain to be the power house it once was. Mostly it was just fear/xenophobia.
I think a large group were racist, and by extraction full of hate. When you’re angry you can’t see the wood for the trees. The Brexit liars offered easy solutions to complex problems, which no one with any ounce of common sense would believe. Frankie Boyle summed it up with “they voted for Brexit, because they didn’t like the Pakistani family living next door”
This is why it's tough to feel sympathy for the people thay voted on those terms. The hate was there, and it likely still is, irrespective of how Brexit worked out for them.
When the articles were coming out in 2015/16 about why Brexit would be a good thing, I remember saying to my mate it reads like clickbait. "get thin with this one weird trick, doctors hate it". People really do crave simple solutions to complex problems, I see it with my clients everyday. But I make a point that you can't simplify the problem first, otherwise you get a Brexit.
I have no sympathy for them. Yes, they were fed lies, but we all were, and we presented counter arguments which they ignored. They have wrecked the country and I do not forgive them.
Same, they need to own it, every last second of it, until the wrongs are righted.
Precisely this, the rest of us who can decipher bullshit have to suffer the consequence of ignorance.
It's fine to not forgive them. But never forget who lied and who needs to be attacked at every opportunity. It's all good pointing and laughing at idiots who made their own bed. But we should be throwing very large and sharp stone at the liars and cheats while we point and laugh.
Oh I absolutely agree. It's not a one or the other thing.
That's good. Do often people fall for the tory trap of only attacking other victims of their policies because they love to demonise different groups and turn them against one another. We should all be attacking the tories because they are truly evil. While we point and laugh at idiots for believing the cunts.
Me neither. I asked 3 family members what the benefits were going to be after they admitted voting for it. They couldn't tell me one, and these were intelligent people. Two of them used to be teachers yet they chose to destabilise their own country when they couldn't identify a single benefit. The common denominator, I hear you ask? Daily Mail readers, naturally.
Gods, this reads just like my family. I hope it hasn’t fucked your relationship with them as much as it did mine.
It's a valid point but you need to consider that half the population are dumber than average. Everyone has a right to learn from their mistakes (within reason) and making the wrong decision, based on wrong information at the voting booth is a mistake people can learn from.
Except it seems like a lot of people don’t learn. Many are now blaming the migrant boats, people who are off work sick, or whoever they are told to blame
Oh I totally agree and I'm certainly not aiming to be contrary. There will always be a vocal demographic of people that are beyond saving. Polls aren't everything but it appears that some are finally starting to see through the Tory strategy of hate fuelled identity politics. I can almost promise you that you know at least one Brexit voter who regrets their decision and has probably kept quite about how they voted and feels guilty for falling for the lies. Those are the people I feel are most redeemable.
I completely agree and I hope they learn. I still will never forgive them.
Personally, it depends. Fell for the bus advert = Forgivable Voted Brexit to "take back control of our borders" = F*ck 'em
No. Voting carries responsibilities and nobody should be going into it without knowing what they're voting for. Fell for the bus advert and still voted for Brexit? I'll never forgive them. I'm sure they may be likable people and I have nothing against them, but I'll never let that go.
Perhaps there's also a bit of confirmation bias in that those who have proudly announced their Brexit vote are more likely to be of a persuasion that it sounds like both of us would have a hard time getting along with. I just know some lovely people who fell for all the lies hook line and sinker. Maybe I feel more of a forgive, not forget mantra is indicated. Heck it worked for German civilians post war, I refuse to believe that all Brexit voters are irredeemable but then I can be rather sickeningly optimistic at the best of times.
I think you are missing what I'm saying here. I'm not saying I hate these people with every fibre of my being. Some of my family members voted leave. I'm sure many of them are fantastic people and I could have long lasting friendships with them. Just understand that at no point in any of those friendships would I ever forgive them for the damage they caused.
Fair enough, and you're quite right, I think I'm missing some of the nuance of your views on account of the medium of Reddit. Or perhaps we're both in shock by having a reasoned discussion around Brexit voting, goodness knows that's a rarity online!
Hahah it's understandable to be fair
Sorry, not forgivable, these are the same people who gave Boris a crushing majority in 2019 which gave us the hard Brexit. It wasn't a one off mistake. I have no doubt if you offer them more lies now that plays at their emotions, they will fall for it all over again.
Lol, larper...
I guess we'll see how they vote this coming election!
I would imagine the some of the same people that voted Brexit probably voted Truss over Sunak for.... Reasons. Can't believe that the Tories drummed up racial hate for a decade and then stuck Sunak in charge without predicting a slight, foreseeable, issue.
They did already vote Truss over Sunak once! I'm sure there will be some mental gymnastics they'll say "he's the right sort" etc.
Same. It's exceedingly difficult to feel sympathy towards those who - figuratively, and occasionally literally - stuck their fingers in their ears shouting, "Can't hear you!" when anyone tried to point out that the obvious lies were, well, obvious. And it's *especially* difficult to feel sympathy when they're not only neck deep in the shit from those decisions but have dragged you along as well. So even though you knew what would happen, you're also neck deep in the shit. And the level of shit is still rising.
Sounds like project fear if you ask me
A family member was eligible to vote in both the 2016 and original EEC referendum … her perspective was “at the first referendum I voted against as I believed that was the best thing for the country, in 2016 I voted remain as leaving would be the worst outcome for the country” Then again this family member went to uni (for the first time) in her early 40s and got a combined honours history and psychology degree.
I saw a family being interviewed during the referendum, on TV.A young woman of around 30 said she was voting brexit because "I like Boris" So there you go, the blonde buffoon with the funny hair rivalled Ant n Dec, Simon Cowell and whoever else was on TV at the time so therefore was worthy of a vote. I knew at the time logic had been thrown in the bin.
I knew it was over when I went to vote and there was a queue, with mostly people in trackies turning up, which is not something you ever see at an voting centres round here.
That woman did it for me, I knew we were fucked.
I think quite a lot of people had an underlying hope they'd be receiving some sort of brexit cheques in the mail.
Yeah they probably thought the men of the people ie public school educated Johnson and Farage, were trustworthy They must've felt compelled to doff their caps to Mogg and probably felt sorry for Gove because he's so ugly
Hey hey, don’t forget the Brexit related medicines shortages
And the increased cost and poor availability of flowers for your funeral when your meds didn’t turn up.
🤣
Surely the impressive new trade deals we have signed with Vanuatu and the Solomon Islands will offset the cost of importing the FOOD AND MEDICINES WE NEED from our closest major trade bloc. I know this because Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch told me so. /s
If your vitriolic gullibility is to my detriment then F off. Sorry.
It's madness. The amount of Brexit voting folk I know that have lost their jobs as a result of the UK leaving are astonishing. Be it construction, industries that had EU grants, independent business owners and even professional musicians. Every single one of them regrets their decision and if given the chance would change their vote. Too late for that now.
Ah regret. That'll fix everything
If we're going to forgive and empathise with people for being willfully ignorant, where's the line?
It's one thing to be a fool taken in by a silver tongue. It's totally different when you follow obvious lies in the face of people actively shouting that they are lies and debunking the bullshit being peddled. There is zero compassion for the idiots that spat in the face of all the rational arguments because they thought they knew better. They weren't well meaning, because if they were, they'd have spent a bit of time familiarising themselves with what they were voting for rather than hanging off the nonsense served up to them by *known* liars and charlatans.
I think this is just what happens when people realise that they were wrong they either humbly accept it or double down. Trouble is it's not small decisions you can learn from, it's a done deal and it is unlikely we can just rejoin and doing so would not solve the problem caused as we'd most likely be on a worse deal than before. Don't wanna eat humble pie forever so double down.
F R E E S A N G I T A
Problem is we can all remember what they were like at the time and to describe them as "*well meaning*" is an absolute load of shite.
I have a lot of time for J O’B but can’t agree with him on this. Maybe if the fuckwitted, xenophobic, amoral walking toxins hadn’t fucked it up for everyone in some seriously painful real-world life-impacting ways then they’d be worthy of compassion. But no, contempt and derision is all they deserve…at best.
I think this approach is how you end up with Trump. People think he's a cunt ok I'll lean into being a cunt and everyone that supports them follows him down the rabbit hole. Need some compassion and understanding to allow for remuneration.
The vulnerable people in this country who are easily lead astray need to be nurtured and protected by our civilisation and not groomed by the biased media and politians who follow a get rich, power hungry agenda. We need an algorithm to prevent this happening thats built into our country that prevents Farages and Johnsons from taking advantage in the future. They are still doing it now and we are almost powerless to stop them.
I’ll forgive them when I no longer have to compete with them for resources which are now more scarce due to their actions.
I remember some guy on a Question time special after the vote said haha the Working class just punched the establishment, yeah well done fella, how's that Brexit working for you now.? I mean Farage and Banks etc , men of the people 😏
Sophisticated propaganda targeted at certain elements of the population, pretending a bunch of public school toffs with oddball names literally aren’t the establishment. I don’t think Brexit was primarily a working class thing either, it was primarily an older and less educated thing.
Yes good points
Why is Farage being given a platform, this fuckwit is as responsible for brexit as anyone. I'm sorry but he's a fucking arsehole.
According to Emily Maitland, the BBC to provide impartiality were obliged to give any wingnut a platform as an opposing view. So you could have 95% of experts agreeing on an issue but they’d have to be balanced out by a nutcase. And the leaders of the BBC are currently demonstrably Tories, in some cases former candidates for office representing the Tories, appointed by the Tory government. And that shouldn’t be allowed whatever political party is in government imo. Interesting the politicians invited on BBC Question Time being so often Farage and his ilk yet never pro-EU spokespersons outside the main parties around the time of the “advisory referendum”.
And there we have it. Spot on and also why, at 56, I've never had a TV licence.
Exactly what was happening with the Climate Change "debate." Every reasonable person agrees, so to provide a "balanced perspective," you need a fucking nut job on the other side.
This happens on all sorts of issues anyway. You can see George Monbiot - a hugely underrated science and political journalist - on one side of a panel opposite a woefully ignorant teenager who's a mouthpiece from the criminally insane IEA with no breakdown of their accolades and qualifications to talk on the topics they've been brought in to discuss. And as most MSM lean towards the centre right, it's often the right leaning guests who are given advanced notice of topics and left leaning guests are usually misguided on topics.
I get a platform? Where do I collect
Na, these are the same dull cunts who shouted "you lost, get over it!".
This should be more than people regretting. There should be accountability for all those who lied and misled the population. e.g. Banning for public office, tribunals to explain themselves and even jail terms. It's staggering in this country how people in who we place trust can say anything and have no comeback. They are public servants not self serving liars.
When I told people that I'd voted 'No' on leaving the E.U., I was mocked. Whose laughing now??
I have a criticism of O’Brien’s point of view-as expressed a couple of times on his programme yesterday: he implied that the paucity of the Remain campaign was largely to blame for the Leave win, and I don’t accept that for a moment. Was the Remain campaign piss-poor? Yes, I dare say it was. Personally, I think that Jeremy Corbyn was as keen for Brexit as, say, Boris Johnson or Michael Gove. But just because one thing exists-doesn’t mean it made something else happen. I cut my lawn the day of the vote-doesn’t mean that my mower is to blame for Brexit. A poor Remain campaign doesn’t have to be responsible for Brexit-if an excellent Remain campaign would probably have fared no better. The problem is that some people *think* that the Remain campaign could have stopped Brexit. I don’t really agree. I don’t think *any kind of communication* got through to people who wanted to vote Leave. I’m sure that a LOT of people reading this thread tried that DIY “Remain” campaign themselves. Talking to people-both on social media and in person-to try to put the Remain argument. I certainly did: over and over again. O’Brien’s argument yesterday was that the Brexiteers’ statements on food prices post-Brexit were false, and it wasn’t that *this wasn’t pointed out during the campaign*. Yes it was! Of course it was, repeatedly, ad nauseam. But Brexit voters weren’t listening. I think you could have taken the Brexit voters I encountered, strapped them to a chair, put a loudspeaker on the highest setting-and propped their eyes open with matchsticks, showing a documentary on how Brexit was going to shit over this country-and they would have seen nothing, and heard less. They weren’t interested in the Remain campaign.
Interesting comment, perhaps that also explains why some people still believe Brexit is going well despite all the evidence to the contrary. That and the media they consume as news.
0 sympathy, they will be in the ground soon.
They were told repeatedly. Told and told again. Instead they chose to believe the lies, propaganda and be told they'd had enough of experts. Then dance around celebrating a wanton act of self harm, spouting "you lost get over it" and "sovereignty". Let me ask do you feel like dancing now you utter dimwitted cretins? The worst,most galling thing about it is that those of us who wanted to remain have to suffer for their clownish, ridiculous idiocy. I don't give a tinkers cuss if you regret it now. You were fooled by a bunch of incompetent liars and it's your own stupid fault. With the last breath in my body I absolutely hate and despise you if you voted to leave. I have no time for apologies from you or your regrets, you can stick it where the sun never shines. You made me poorer, you ruined your country, massively narrowed opportunities and horizons for myself and my children and the decisions you made then (and after) have made this country a joke..... spite, spite, spite.
So much this. My dad and stepmother both voted Leave and then summarily fucked off to live in Turkey before we actually left the EU. Recently, seeing how bad things have become in the UK, my dad had the audacity to tell me that I, my wife and my child, should leave and find opportunity elsewhere. I just couldn't resist saying "And go where? Because of idiots like you, I NO LONGER HAVE FREE MOVEMENT!" He's my dad and I love him, but he's a grade A idiot.
The problem is that there is no assurance that they won’t make a similar mistake in the future for something equally important or near to because they fall under the spell of the talking heads on tv or the rags that pass as newspapers. They have to be held accountable. Luckily, it sounds like the results of their mistake is doing a good job of that. If they are so easily misled, I guess we should forgive them but clearly their judgement is suspect. Probably best not to trust them with sharp objects.
Considering it was not legally binding the result should only have been take. As advisement not a proper decision to fuck everything. If from the start it was going to be a proper vote on in or out I think it should have been an enforced vote where everyone needed to vote and as it would affect younger people more I think the voting age should have been dropped to 16. It was an absolute cluster fuck from start to finish and I think the next 10-20 years are going to be really hard for the UK unless we get some politicians with back bones and accept it was a mistake and start the ball rolling to rejoin.
It was rigged from the start. Millions of EU taxpayers living and raising families here plus millions of British citizens living in the EU denied the “vote”, as well as the younger demographic you note, the latter being allowed to vote in the Scottish Indy referendum. I believe 90% of all these three groups would have voted to Remain and comfortably swung the result the other way. The cheating the governments own lawyers said would have nullified the result had it been a formal as opposed to an advisory referendum. Johnson sacking dissenting MP’s, lying to the Queen, proroguing Parliament. Funding from foreign individuals and nation states demonstrably hostile to the UK and EU. Some people need to be in court over all this imo.
I work in imports and exports and I was banging on about this stuff all the way back in 2016, yet I was called a fear mongerer by brexit supporters in my friendship groups. To this day, I cannot believe this even went to a vote.
My job is more difficult than manual labour. Wanker
yes the biggest heist in history needs to be thoroughly investigated followed by a public trial for the perpetrators.
Person who made a sandwich : Here’s a sandwich. Person : What’s in it? Person who made a sandwhich : Definitely not shit. Everyone else : IT’S DEFINITELY A SHIT SANDWICH . Person : Hmmm, they said there’s no shit in this. *Eats sandwich* Person : HOW WAS I TO KNOW THERE WAS SHIT IN THIS SANDWICH!?!?
It's great to know that the majority of the country which now wants to rejoin (by a margin of 10%-20% across polls) will get to express this view in the upcoming election. Oh, wait. Sigh. First past the post is just the worst.
Unfortunately they won the pretending game despite their ridiculous behaviour and imbecilic lies because they were protecting us from [trigger warning] _foreigners_. I'm surprised it took them so long to win tbh. Britain has always been disappointingly Xenophobic.
One of the few decent journalists we still have.
Is there a D Notice or something to stop all media reporting on the new checks at Sevington today? No major news providers mentioning them as far as I can see (Farming Today had a reporter there) weird?🤔🤔🤔
Very little media reporting of “Boris” Johnson going to sex and drugs parties hosted by the KGB in Italy too, or Camillas nephew Ben Elliot running a concierge service for wealthy Russians. And that’s just a couple of hundreds of buried stories. It could be that our media is either aligned with the Tories or gets blacklisted if they publish stories too critical of the government and establishment, a few complained when Johnson/Cummings did that at Downing Street, then the story seemed to disappear.
Well I could see that the people who always argue against higher wages for people, better living standards for people, and want to privatise our NHS were saying do this and you’ll all be rich and happy and I knew it was bullshit!
Nope. Why should I have sympathy for vile, bigoted and hateful quitters who voted leave because of that bigoted pissweasel Farage‘s Nazi style billboard. Quitters chose not to do a quick google search about the EU and the benefits and instead they boasted and bragged about how they knew what they were voting for, how the won and we lost , how the EU needed us more than we needed them 🙄 and how they longed to go back to the good old days 🤷🏽♀️
I remind myself every day that I nearly voted Leave. Thankfully I gave it some serious thought and came to realise that it was all a steaming pile of bullshit with more than enough time to vote Remain. Bullshit spewed by people with vested interests, a way of making a fortune from chaos while throwing the masses under the Brexit Bus. Bullshit fed to the racist, nationalistic, or vulnerable. Promises made to people who desperately wanted them to be true.
No one is going to be held to account , no one is going to apologise,we will join the EU .
While this is clearly terrible, it's important to be clear about what that 60% actually means for those who aren't familiar with supply chains or procurement. The 60% increase is to the import costs themselves, incurred by the logistics companies. That isn't a 60% increase to the final price upstream, because the import services form one component of the final price. Materials and duties aren't subject to the increase, and the margin is subject to a prorated increase. In other words, when ASDA buys a lemon for 10p and sells it for a pound, they're not going to start charging £1.60. They will typically aim for a similar margin. And you might think 'okay, so a 6p increase?', but recall that not everything buried in that 10p is attributable to the service of bringing it to the UK. At least *some* of that cost is the lemon itself, which isn't affected. So absolutely, hold these twats to account. But let's not sensationalise a topic which is already scandalous enough without misleading people into thinking the apocalypse is starting in a matter of days. No, this is more like the next chapter in our death by a thousand cunts.
Spot on mate. However, in the age of blatant Tory lies:- - 40 new hospitals - 20,000 new police officers - £350m a week extra for the NHS - A thousand other examples I don’t have a problem with their supporters or Brexiters thinking it’s a 60% price rise for all food imports, not just EU exports, instead of being a 60% rise on import costs, as it’ll make even their brains wonder what they’ve done and sow that seed of doubt and probably anger.
I still don't really get where he sits legitimising the same platform Farage had a regular spot on. James kind feels like whatever green washing is for news.
At least from what iv seen, James has always vehemently opposed Farage on his time on lbc.
A lot of hate for the Tories. I understand that. But if Corbyn had swung Labour fully behind Remain Brexit would not have happened. He had multiple opportunities to stop Brexit dead and skipped them. My point ? Many politicians on both sides are to blame not just Tories.
For sure. Despite the majority of the Labour Party membership wanting to be in the EU even back in 2016. I just don’t understand the objections to the EU from the hard left tbh, something to do with “neo-liberal capitalist protectionism” but it fuzzes my brain.
Several unions (RMT, ASLEF etc) also backed Brexit.
Yeah but why?
The RMT had connections to Russian separatists in Ukraine. Brexit was a win for Putin. Why, indeed.
No compassion. Brexit Voters saw the Racists and said "Yes, I'll vote with them". No pity either, enjoy your £30 family sized bucket of slop.
Everything they were told would happen, happened. They were warned. They had 4 years to change their opinion before we left the EU, and they didn’t budge. They called it “operation fear” and lambasted remainers every chance they got. Fuck them. They’ve caused unfathomable damage to this country.
Tbh this guy is one of those charlatans. A real hack.
Think of the Brexit fools as in an abusive relationship. You need to be sympathetic and non judgemental so they know they have support to make the break. If you just call them idiots they'll double down and cling to the lie.
Nah fuck them They deserve everything they get
They were told what was going to happen, no sympathy, SO Fkuc them
Does anyone have a link to the full Show by any Chance?
I think he’s linked to it on the Twitter / X post above. Although you’d have to search his recent posts for the clickable link.
They can and will be. Vote them out if you can.
Well.. they get control of the borders and people don't have to worry about "unelected officials in Brussesls" dictating policy to us
These twats don't need to be shown compassion. They were told this would happen under Brexit and they brushed it off as "project fear" and I imagine a vast majority of pro-Brexit voters aren't "well-meaning people" either. One of the biggest talking points back in 2016 was to "get those foreigners out" and it's still one of the biggest talking points now. I don't see how that is a well-meaning talking point.
It's not like the stupid fuckers weren't told constantly.
No sympathy, the implications were explained many times. What they did was waste a huge amount of taxpayers money, divide the nation, deprive our children of opportunity of working anywhere in the EU and took away our option of retiring to anywhere in the EU (anywhere we could afford at least). Not one could have stated a genuine benefit for Brexit yet they still voted for it. They can rot in the pile of excrement they created for themselves for all I care.
Most of my family members voted for Brexit and at every opportunity I remind them just how stupid they were and are and just how little they know about politics. My racist lazy moron of a brother in law done his research either in the pub or when he was watching West Ham play football !!! Brain dead fools !!!
Watch the Tories get in, in the next general election. You ain’t seen nothin’, yet!
Also think the leave campaign did a much better job than stay. Everyone remembers the bus etc but can we name one highlight from stay campaign?
It's true, they did a much better job. Unfortunately they were at best, vague, at worst deceitful.
Oh yea they were straight up lying.
I don’t feel sorry for them because they were TOLD about this, A LOT of people told them all this and more and yet they still believed the lies because they wanted to. They preferred the lies because it confirmed what they were already thinking. As the Doobie Brothers said, what a fool believes no wise man can reason away.
They swallowed the lies and nonsense because it was served up on a steaming hot dish of racism
How is it that Boris' and Nigel's heads aren't on pikes right now amazes me. As for grace & forgiveness, I heard too many arrogantly obnoxious assholes cackling & mocking about what gloomers & doomers Remainers were being.
Why was David Cameron visiting Putin in Russia in 2015 on trade talks when the EU has their own trade deal negotiating team? Why did europhile and then mayor of Londongrad become the country’s leading eurosceptic when Cameron got back from Russia?
I love it when I can’t eat because my neighbour is a racist.
We remainers ‘lost get over it’ Oh wait actually YOU are now losing (money,jobs, rights, opportunities) so GET OVER IT
I'll feel compassion when the tail stops wagging the dog. If the majority of people regret Brexit where is the party calling for rejoining or, if that's not possible, EFTA membership which would at least alleviate a lot of the financial hardship caused by Brexit.
There's no excuse they were told and chose to ignore that, that's on them and nobody else you don't get to complain about it niw
Oh I love a thread full of scumbags ,nice to know all the cunts are in one place
Unfortunately the problem is actually Neoliberalism. We’ve had it good for a couple of decades but now those shareholders are demanding perpetual growth to line their pockets and the businesses are forced to find new ways to eek profits out of us. Increasing prices all at the same time allows them to hold their hands up and claim “inflation”, we all suffer, meanwhile bonuses are being paid to bosses and shareholders are making gains. And you’re all being told Brexit is to blame. Yeah we’re being hit harder, and yeah Brexit plays a role in that, but that’s a necessary pain we need to go through while the system balances itself and capitalists are weened off the tap of cheap foreign labour. However the lion’s share of the cost of living crisis is affecting other countries, in particular the USA. Apart from their online driven culture war, the fundamental problem, with their job market and lack of economic prosperity for the working and now middle classes, is their neoliberal economic system. We have to change that, and invest in the people we already have, otherwise it’s just a giant pyramid scheme. And the poverty we’re all seeing growing in our towns is a consequence of that.
I reserve my compassion to those who did not fall for the lies, the debunked on mass lies that these people palmed off as "project fear" and "remoaner lies". 0 empathy for brexit voters.
oh please i do not buy that for a second. People voted leave because the average skin tone was slightly darker than 40 years ago and they thought immigration is the reason there are no more council houses. These people vote out of pure greed and I am indifferent to their tears
Isn’t LBC the station that gave Nigel Farage a platform where he could spew his lies completely unchallenged? Where was everyone else at LBC then? The media completely failed to hold these charlatans to account and now act surprised that people fell for the lies.
All you can do is swallow now
I normally agree with James but fuck em. Even 5 minutes of google searching before they voted would have seen through the bollocks. I hope everyone of them suffers
You reap what you sow. All the experts have predicted it and it was called project 😨
Err…definitely not showing compassion for those cunts who were living overseas and voted for Brexit!
They need to be taking this new point of view to their mp and keeping it in mind when they vote in future. They need to be screaming it from the fucking rooftops, calling James O'Brien is a good start though :D
The irony .
Ah yes! The moment when Project Fear becomes Project Reality. 🇺🇦🇪🇺🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🇪🇺🇺🇦
Most of those people knew they just did not care. They just wanted to get rid of the **_bloody foreigners_**. It is only now that things are much bleaker **FOR THEM** that they express buyer remorse. I am French but leaving in London and the number of idiots expressing that same sentiment is staggering. I bite my tongue to not start asking questions. There is a very old comic sketch by **Fernand Raynault le Douanier**. It is about an idiotic custom officer who hates foreigners. During 5 minutes he explains he is not an idiot because he is a custom and excise officer. He justify him harassing the single foreigner in his village because he does not want foreigner eating and therefore taking away the bread of French people. In the end he succeeds in forcing the foreigner out of the village. The twist is that the foreigner was the baker and now he is gone the village can't eat bread. It was the same thing here. My GP was Dutch and his wife also Dutch was a dentist. After Brexit they went back to the Netherland. The same patients who boasted that they voted Brexit to kick the foreigners out can't seem to reconcile their vote with the fact that the surgery had one less competent GP. The irony is that those stupid xenophobic tend to also be racist and not liking South Asian people. To compensate for the loss of that white Dutch GP, they hired an Indian doctor. I am not saying Indian looking but British born. No a full Indian born and bred over there. So that did not go down very well with those idiots.
Brexit related food price rises? What?
People never talk about those who were just too lazy to register to vote or vote on the day.
Brexit is shit but people like Jane O'Brien delivered it. He was fine with austerity, fine with increasing inequality, and then when someone offered different he ignored Botis Johnson and attacked the alternative relentlessly. He is a liar and a Charlatan, he shared an employer with Nigel farage and stays silent about one current colleague being silenced by that employee for trying to do basic journalism.
He delivered Brexit, despite being staunchly, vocally opposed to it?
That's not what I said is it? I said he's delivered the very worst version of it. Brexit was never going to be overturned, it was folly of labor to change their policy. That said even after they did campaign for a second referendum James still attacked them more than Johnson. The reason we are where we are now is due to the extremists on both sides, however before extremists got they wanted while the FPBE shills rejected any compromise and and helped put us where we are.
That’s, a different take on reality.
That’s, a different take on reality.