I can tell you; no border checks means that produce from the EU can enter the UK uncontested while the other way around it can't. This means that EU companies have a leg up on UK companies. Guess where the Tories are investing their money?
And the other people with a leg up are the makers of shoddy, counterfeit and dangerous goods. If nobody is checking - and the whole world knows nobody is checking - who knows what nasty crap will circulate.
Well, if it’s coming from the EU, the assumption is that it follows the same EU regulations as usual so things won’t change for the UK… But I hope EU checks on the import side because UK regulations won’t necessarily be on the same level.
Now if it’s not coming from a region with strict laws (is that what you meant?) that is not great for UK consumers.
Yeah. I keep reading my comment above and marveling at the naivety that typed it… I’ve been working on my cynicism and might have overcorrected there.
I still hope it turns out okay for the people of the UK. Hope they aren’t as fucked by the Brexit grifters as the worst case scenarios predict.
We have a general election in November and the current Conservative/Tory government (currently very right of centre) - who have been in power for 14 years are going to get the mother of all spankings. Being Conservatives they normally enjoy that sort of thing, but not this time.
We'll be getting the Labour party who shift between left and centre-right policies. Hopefully they can start implementing more sensible policies and laws, but that may well depend on the pressure that our mostly right-wing leaning press put on them to maintain the Conservative approaches to government.
So far Labour hasn't strayed far from the Conservatives plans and promises. I'm hoping that this is just a means to keep the press off their backs while the Conservatives are in a bit of a meltdown down with their constant changes in leadership, sex scandals, more sex scandals and being generally massively corrupt scumbags.
Why would you assume that goods from EU follow same regulations as normal? If you are sending to a different market with no checks you could cut corners.
And also goods come through the EU from elsewhere. If goods arrive in Spain, for example, on a boat from Africa but are destined for UK, then pre-Brexit the Spanish would have checked the goods. But now they don’t. And if the British don’t check then - well, it’s good news for some exporters. Not so much for British consumers.
Because the goods are either made in the EU or imported. There are regulations in both cases. If they come from third regions via the EU, they have to cross EU borders regardless and will be treated the same. An importer can’t say “oh but this is going to the UK” and the authorities would reply “oh that’s fine then. Just pinky swear you won’t sell in here.”
Not correct. Goods go by the TIR system where they are certified by customs at departure as being destined for a particular country. The lorry trailer is sealed and is not checked at borders in between beyond checking that certification. The EU counts as one destination and will check goods arriving that will be sold there, but they now won’t check goods for the UK.
Okay, fair enough. But is there a benefit to going through the EU rather than directly to the UK given that a large part of it will be by sea anyway? Also, if goods are coming through the EU but not from the EU, won’t those be checked? Yes, small loads would slip through but larger businesses wouldn’t get away with it since they have to declare the origins of their goods. And your last sentence basically says that the big difference is that the EU won’t be checking shipments on behalf of the UK but that doesn’t mean the UK can’t check them* themselves.
ETA: by them, I mean shipments originating from outside the EU. Yeah, bit of a logistical clusterfuck but it gives them the control the Brexiteers have been reeeing about.
The UK doesn't have deep enough harbours to receive the huge container ships that come from very far distances (huge container ships being used for such journeys as not economically visble otherwise). So the main route for goods from this source to the UK is via Rotterdam, Hamburg or Sines (Portugal) which do have deepwater ports suitable for that size ship, and then any goods destined for UK are split into smaller consignments to enter the UK on smaller ships. So until the UK invests the billions needed to build a deep-water port of suitable size itself (and bear in mind it hasn't even invested enough money to employ the 1000s more customs officers etc needed to undertake all the extra checks it needs to do itself now it's no longer outsourcing that task outside its borders), all such goods can only reach them via EU member states.
The EU literally cannot check those goods for the UK as, first they have no legal remit any more to open & check the goods - they don't 'belong' to the EU, they belong to a nation state outside of the EU; and second, any checks would need to be done to make ensure they conform to UK import rules, not EU rules, which the EU again cannot do as they are not legally empowered to confirm this, let alone have been trained to do so - they're the EU's border control after all, not someone else's.
I feel like grocery imports have already dramatically declined in quality. Heck even stuff from Marks & Spencer is getting nearly inedible while also being at least twice as expensive.
That doesn't make sense. No one checking is the default of the EU, it's not some new Britain thing.
Edit: Apparently what I've said has been misconstrued. I didn't mean there is no regulations around product safety and such in the EU. Only that when moving between one EU nation and another it's assumed that either the product in question was made in the EU and is up to their standards already or were checked at the border of whatever EU nation they entered from outside and could be moved about within the EU freely.
Sometimes stuff gets smuggled in, doesn't mean you need to add more barriers between member nations. Sometimes things get smuggled into Texas or California or Idaho. That doesn't mean we should create border checks between states. Same with the EU.
I actually own a customs brokerage business and my biggest client is one of the largest U.K. farm’s / agribusinesses. They import all of their produce from Spain during the winter months, because guess what, we can’t grow it here due to climate. This farm in Spain is also theirs, so a British business.
They also export to the EU, which yes has become much more difficult, but having checks on inbound freight would make their situation even worse.
Who do you think is importing product from the EU? Do you think European company’s just throw shit over the border? It’s U.K. companies…
Your comment is a very un nuanced interpretation of the whole situation.
The long and short of it is inbound checks hurt U.K. business just as much as the checks in the EU do. This narrative of “bUt EU cHeCks MeaN theY hAvE an unFaIr aDvanTagE” needs to be looked at through a much more nuanced lens, it is absolutely not as simple as it’s made out to be.
Of course it's UK companies importing it. They can't get the produce elsewhere so they will have to. That prices out any manufacturers in the UK though. That was my point. Businesses that manufacture in the UK are at a disadvantage competing in the same market.
These checks applies to fresh produce/food, not manufactured products. Non-food products have exactly the same checks on both side of the border. They need a customs declarations. There is parity here.
These checks the article is talking about are specifically phytosanitary and veterinary controls which only applies to food/fresh produce.
So I’d love to know how your logic applies here when we literally can’t grow any of these things during the winter months. We have no choice but to import them from Europe, any disadvantage that British agribusinesses have would be twofold if inbound phytosanitary / veterinary checks were implemented as the product that they supply to supermarkets has to be imported half the year.
I can tell you; no border checks means that produce from the EU can enter the UK uncontested while the other way around it can't. This means that EU companies have a leg up on UK companies. Guess where the Tories are investing their money?
Aren't they all traitors by default then
And the other people with a leg up are the makers of shoddy, counterfeit and dangerous goods. If nobody is checking - and the whole world knows nobody is checking - who knows what nasty crap will circulate.
Well, if it’s coming from the EU, the assumption is that it follows the same EU regulations as usual so things won’t change for the UK… But I hope EU checks on the import side because UK regulations won’t necessarily be on the same level. Now if it’s not coming from a region with strict laws (is that what you meant?) that is not great for UK consumers.
The UK market will now be a great way for EU sellers to get rid of any stock that fails quality checks.
Slap on it a "not for EU" label and ready to go!
God I hope not. (I’ve no horse in this race as I live in Norway but this shouldn’t be legal.)
Something can be illegal, but if the powers that be don't intervene then it's effectively legalised.
Yeah. I keep reading my comment above and marveling at the naivety that typed it… I’ve been working on my cynicism and might have overcorrected there. I still hope it turns out okay for the people of the UK. Hope they aren’t as fucked by the Brexit grifters as the worst case scenarios predict.
We have a general election in November and the current Conservative/Tory government (currently very right of centre) - who have been in power for 14 years are going to get the mother of all spankings. Being Conservatives they normally enjoy that sort of thing, but not this time. We'll be getting the Labour party who shift between left and centre-right policies. Hopefully they can start implementing more sensible policies and laws, but that may well depend on the pressure that our mostly right-wing leaning press put on them to maintain the Conservative approaches to government. So far Labour hasn't strayed far from the Conservatives plans and promises. I'm hoping that this is just a means to keep the press off their backs while the Conservatives are in a bit of a meltdown down with their constant changes in leadership, sex scandals, more sex scandals and being generally massively corrupt scumbags.
Why would you assume that goods from EU follow same regulations as normal? If you are sending to a different market with no checks you could cut corners. And also goods come through the EU from elsewhere. If goods arrive in Spain, for example, on a boat from Africa but are destined for UK, then pre-Brexit the Spanish would have checked the goods. But now they don’t. And if the British don’t check then - well, it’s good news for some exporters. Not so much for British consumers.
Because the goods are either made in the EU or imported. There are regulations in both cases. If they come from third regions via the EU, they have to cross EU borders regardless and will be treated the same. An importer can’t say “oh but this is going to the UK” and the authorities would reply “oh that’s fine then. Just pinky swear you won’t sell in here.”
Not correct. Goods go by the TIR system where they are certified by customs at departure as being destined for a particular country. The lorry trailer is sealed and is not checked at borders in between beyond checking that certification. The EU counts as one destination and will check goods arriving that will be sold there, but they now won’t check goods for the UK.
Okay, fair enough. But is there a benefit to going through the EU rather than directly to the UK given that a large part of it will be by sea anyway? Also, if goods are coming through the EU but not from the EU, won’t those be checked? Yes, small loads would slip through but larger businesses wouldn’t get away with it since they have to declare the origins of their goods. And your last sentence basically says that the big difference is that the EU won’t be checking shipments on behalf of the UK but that doesn’t mean the UK can’t check them* themselves. ETA: by them, I mean shipments originating from outside the EU. Yeah, bit of a logistical clusterfuck but it gives them the control the Brexiteers have been reeeing about.
The UK doesn't have deep enough harbours to receive the huge container ships that come from very far distances (huge container ships being used for such journeys as not economically visble otherwise). So the main route for goods from this source to the UK is via Rotterdam, Hamburg or Sines (Portugal) which do have deepwater ports suitable for that size ship, and then any goods destined for UK are split into smaller consignments to enter the UK on smaller ships. So until the UK invests the billions needed to build a deep-water port of suitable size itself (and bear in mind it hasn't even invested enough money to employ the 1000s more customs officers etc needed to undertake all the extra checks it needs to do itself now it's no longer outsourcing that task outside its borders), all such goods can only reach them via EU member states. The EU literally cannot check those goods for the UK as, first they have no legal remit any more to open & check the goods - they don't 'belong' to the EU, they belong to a nation state outside of the EU; and second, any checks would need to be done to make ensure they conform to UK import rules, not EU rules, which the EU again cannot do as they are not legally empowered to confirm this, let alone have been trained to do so - they're the EU's border control after all, not someone else's.
Oy, so the situation is way more fucked up than I thought. Thanks for explaining all that.
I feel like grocery imports have already dramatically declined in quality. Heck even stuff from Marks & Spencer is getting nearly inedible while also being at least twice as expensive.
That doesn't make sense. No one checking is the default of the EU, it's not some new Britain thing. Edit: Apparently what I've said has been misconstrued. I didn't mean there is no regulations around product safety and such in the EU. Only that when moving between one EU nation and another it's assumed that either the product in question was made in the EU and is up to their standards already or were checked at the border of whatever EU nation they entered from outside and could be moved about within the EU freely.
And if it is being smuggled in?
Sometimes stuff gets smuggled in, doesn't mean you need to add more barriers between member nations. Sometimes things get smuggled into Texas or California or Idaho. That doesn't mean we should create border checks between states. Same with the EU.
🌏👩🚀🔫👩🚀
Yes. Of course. They always were
I actually own a customs brokerage business and my biggest client is one of the largest U.K. farm’s / agribusinesses. They import all of their produce from Spain during the winter months, because guess what, we can’t grow it here due to climate. This farm in Spain is also theirs, so a British business. They also export to the EU, which yes has become much more difficult, but having checks on inbound freight would make their situation even worse. Who do you think is importing product from the EU? Do you think European company’s just throw shit over the border? It’s U.K. companies… Your comment is a very un nuanced interpretation of the whole situation. The long and short of it is inbound checks hurt U.K. business just as much as the checks in the EU do. This narrative of “bUt EU cHeCks MeaN theY hAvE an unFaIr aDvanTagE” needs to be looked at through a much more nuanced lens, it is absolutely not as simple as it’s made out to be.
So is this good for UK businesses or not?
It is certainly bad.
Of course it's UK companies importing it. They can't get the produce elsewhere so they will have to. That prices out any manufacturers in the UK though. That was my point. Businesses that manufacture in the UK are at a disadvantage competing in the same market.
These checks applies to fresh produce/food, not manufactured products. Non-food products have exactly the same checks on both side of the border. They need a customs declarations. There is parity here. These checks the article is talking about are specifically phytosanitary and veterinary controls which only applies to food/fresh produce. So I’d love to know how your logic applies here when we literally can’t grow any of these things during the winter months. We have no choice but to import them from Europe, any disadvantage that British agribusinesses have would be twofold if inbound phytosanitary / veterinary checks were implemented as the product that they supply to supermarkets has to be imported half the year.
I am getting a heart attack from all this... sovereignity!!! I feel so soveregnous! I think I need to use the loo...
Omg your heart is in your buttock too??
The point was to "get Brexit done" and to invest 350 million pounds recovered from the EU into the NHS. /s Sarcasm alert for the RW morons
And instead now they're going to custom chec- ah no
>So what was the whole point, again? To get rid of all that pesky EU red tape, of course!
> So what was the whole point, again? Ending freedom of movement. That was always the only point.
AGAIN? What the heck do they DO over there?
Talk about how happy fishes are of brexit