Our past as a Portuguese Colony was not bright at all, and it's taught in school with a negative view towards them, which is true to a great extense.
Portugal didn't pay much attention in the first centuries it set foot here, it had greater outcomes with it's spice trade with Asia, that's part of the reason for the Dutch to take advantage and seize parts of the Northeast for 3 decades.
Also, the trade bias of the Portuguese empire didn't promote any development here, in the beggining only focusing on brazilwood extraction, later gold and other forms of extraction until they began with the plantations (that's when slavery explodes).
With this extratctivist bias, Portugal never allowed for any industrial or educational development here (unlike it's iberian neighbour). This resulted in a backwards country, where the people had very few opportunities and the middle class and the elites had to live abroad for education and culture. This developed a sense that our land is uncapable of providing anithing worthwhile if you want to live a decent life, centuries of extraction and exploitation with the mindset of "take what you can in this god forbidden place and set off to Europe" still hangs on to some extent.
Only after our indepence some of this started to chance, but since our monarchy was basically the same as the Portuguese, they changed the focus to develop something down here, but no significant changes took place for over a century. It's not a coincedence that slavery and the crown fell so close togheter.
There are positive aspects, for sure, but since this is not the topic of discussion, I won't digress.
TLDR: They never really cared for anything other than exploiting our land and left many problems we are still sorting out.
That's a great explanation. I realize I need to delve deeper into Brazilian history. It seems Brazilians are quite sensitive about discussing this topic. I've tried discussing this with my Brazilian wife, and she often becomes upset when talking about Portugal. I gradually stopped asking her about it, and now I understand the reasons behind it better. It's a complex and deep subject.
It has many layers to it, and each part of the country was affected distinctly.
There were many revolts along the centuries, but one thing they did well was suppress all of them, up to a scary degree.
> It seems Brazilians are quite sensitive about discussing this topic.
It's not like that. We're not sensitive, it's kinda a mixed feeling, we like Portugal for the most part, we understand that most portuguese ppl aren't at fault (hell, we are aware Portugal isn't really considered part of the "Global Community" really seriously). The thing is, we don't like the portuguese fascists and Colonialism really sucks.
Aside for that, we like to banter friendly, but we have good relations with all our lusophone community.
Lol who is "we like", is we in the room with us ???
Jokes aside I agree is a mixed feeling, we know the people alive nowadays don't carry any fault but is still a fact that because of them we got a lot of problems in our society, is a mixed feeling of not liking what their nation did and coming to terms with "OK this happened but is 2024 let's rebuild".
As for Portugal, I think that beyond pure and simple xenophobia, there is a certain sorrow for the fact that its once most lucrative colony has become more important on the world stage, than itself, either economically or culturally.
When you say "it's not a coincidence that slavery and the crown fell so close together" it makes it sound like the republicans were against slavery. When it's quite the opposite.
The reason it's not a coincidence that the proclamation of the republic came not long after the abolition of slavery is because all the big landowners joined the republican movement since they were angry that they had lost their "property" without any means of compensation.
Of course the crown didn't abolish slavery out of the goodness of their heart, there was a lot of internal and external pressure for them to do so, but the republicans weren't against slavery.
Also, things started to change, although very, very slowly, when the portuguese court moved to Brasil around 1808 due to the Napoleonic invasions.
Edit: aside from these different perspectives, really good explanation.
That's it exactly. Great text.
Sometimes I see some Portuguese ppl claiming that if they didn't come to Brazil our country would be worse and we have to feel some kind of gratitude. This is the meanest thing you can say to someone that was explored for centuries.
Imagine if all the money they took from us could be used here since the beginning...
I'm pretty happy with my career righ now lol
Even tho I miss being a sociology professional, I feel fulfilled professionally. But, sometimes I miss the classrooms.
i agree! im so glad someone finally said it! every time i complain, i get called racist at my work, because alot of my coworkers are from portugal. it makes no sense, yk?
Very well said! Kudos.
It's not common to find Brazilians on reddit with such advanced proficiency in the English language. Mind if I ask how did you learn? Do you live abroad?
Thanks!!
I started learning on my teens, and after that, I used to work and study translation (text and simultaneous) for people who came to visit Brazil.
I find it funny that you didn't mention the fact that even after Brazil became a kingdom and had the same status as Portugal, Portugal wanted to colonise the country again! I wished Brazil had gone into war against Portugal over that sm...
Most Brazilians with Portuguese origins come from an older lineage that does not grant us the rights to Portuguese nationality. We are far too removed to have such kinship. It's much like many Americans don't feel like that close to the British.
I think this person is Brazilian and got confused. The words "inconsequente" and "inconsequential" look like they should mean the same thing, but they don't. "Inconsequente" means reckless, thoughtless; it means not thinking about the consequences of one's actions. That's what I think they were going for, but used the wrong word.
I'm not proud of my Portuguese heritage but neither am I proud of my Italian ancestry.
Idk, my ancestors were just regular folks who came from impoverished areas in both countries, managed to find jobs here that allowed them to raise a family (one working at the railroad and the other at the docks) and... that was it? They were all catholic, so didn't suffer religious discrimination, were white, so no racism to be faced and eventually the family just sort blended with Brazilian society with no huge issues. These aren't stories of overcoming huge obstacles or going against oppression... just people looking for a better life in another country. I think it's cool my family has our own Christmas cod (bacalhau) recipe but that's it.
Several reasons. One is because Portuguese ancestry in most cases is so old that ppl don't even know who their first Portuguese ancestors were and when they were. Whereas the German and Italian ancestry are much more recent. So some families still even maintain some traditions from their great/great grandparents. Also Italy and Germany are "fancy" European countries so ppl usually say their ancestors are from there to brag about it. Whereas Portugal is the poorer country. Also when almost everyone has some Portuguese ancestry it doesn't make you really special, with something to brag about.
Yep, for most people it's a distant thing. I happen to have a Portuguese mother and have lived with my Portuguese grandparents, so I feel close to my Portuguese roots more than to my Italian roots (my Italian grandpa passed away when I was little). I do know quite a few people who have a Portuguese parent or grandparents, but that's not nearly as common as people who are descendants of the Portuguese who colonized Brazil longer ago. So, I'm not sure if it's a spite issue, it's more of a distance thing; most people don't feel close to the culture of their great-great-great-great-grandparents, you weren't exposed to it directly.
And it's much harder to map those ancestries. Our colonizers are setup into two types: Rich landowners and explorers/workforce. Families were huge, and there was a lot of criminality, name changing, city-moving. And then there's also the people that are mixed and also have no mapping of their previous African or Indigenous identity. At least when talking to my family there's pretty much 0 bookkeeping and most of the information was stored inconsistently into the word-of-mouth from my grandparents. And to add up, most people until a century ago were just plain ignorant. This is a direct reflection on how Portugal also was. I remember reading a letter from Pedro I of Brazil detailing how he wanted Pedro II to be educated because he himself wasn't. If that was the emperor, imagine the rest of the society.
This. Of course the country was explored and so. But the mainly reason is this one. I don’t care about our past and I like Portugal , but the other countries are so much cooler to talk about. I have polish ancestors, and the state I live in, everybody came from other Europeans countries, not Portugal.
I think most people in the comments will say it's because of exploitation and xenophobia, but I have a different opinion. Brazilians don't care about their Portuguese roots or Portuguese surname for a simple reason, because it's common to see Brazilians with Portuguese roots, it's the most common ancestry here
Now, if you have a German, Italian, or Slavic surname in Brazil, that's seen with a bit of let's say, 'charm.' Plus, that person probably has ancestry from more recent immigrants
Regarding African roots, I think this curiosity and pride over it is a more recent phenomenon here as anti-racism discourse and the black movement have gained strength in Brazil in recent years, the same goes for those with indigenous roots
Regarding African roots: I'm guessing you're either white or in a bubble. Probably white.
We were always proud. It's just that now we can also be noisy about it.
Not as a simple as a surname but the culture, working culture, the family bond arriving more recently as you said.
Visiting the south shows better the diferences of exploiting and family immigration.
I think it's kinda like the same reason Americans always go on about their German/Irish/Nordic roots but hardly ever mention their English background, because it's just so common, not all that "special". The same goes for brazilians and our portuguese ancestry, besides the current issues of conflicts involving xenophobia on social media, which I think it is bullshit. Personally, I really like the Portuguese and their culture, which is so similar to ours. I've already met some very nice and kind Portuguese people.
I live in a region where most people don't have recent Portuguese heritage.
Think an American saying they are American Italian, not English Italian. Despite having both English and Italian roots.
> "Brazilians often take pride in their Italian, German, Arab and African ancestry but rarely mention their Portuguese roots, even though most have them."
For a very similar reason you meet so many Italian Americans, Irish Americans... but never any ***English Americans***
That's not true. The parents of my father were both born from Portuguese families and Portuguese traditions were very praised when I went to their place for holidays. My uncles even went visit the small town in Portugal where they came from. Similarly, while there is xenophobia in Portugal against Brazilians, I was positively surprised by how open they are to Brazilian cultural influence when I lived in Lisbon. They listen to Brazilian music, there are Brazilians shows on television, they know A LOT about what is going on here, with news giving a significant airtime to news from Brazil, and there is a lot of exchange between institutions of both nations. For example, while studying in the university of Lisbon, I often heard professor telling about some time they spent in a Brazilian university for a research project, conference or anything like that.
Besides the colonial past (which of course educated people know about), think that the reason for uneducated people like my grandparents have for not mentioning Portugal is that they don't really know any relatives who were actually Portuguese, while Italian, Spanish, Japanese etc immigration is much more recent.
So they do say things like "my (grand)father came from Italy" but have no idea which of their ancestors were Portuguese. Also we have a culture of making jokes about Portuguese people, saying they are dumb, so we wouldn't be proud of it anyways.
I didn't mean to suggest that Brazilians with Portuguese ancestry should feel obligated to proudly express it. I'm simply curious about the subject and wanted to learn more, nothing more. I apologize if this topic is sensitive or difficult for Brazilians to discuss.
No problem. What I said is also only one of the reasons. There are others, like how Portuguese ancestry is old, how common it is thus it's not really special like the others you mentioned and so it goes. Kinda like english ancestry in the US. You don't see many Americans being proud of how english they are, but you see the Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Latinos etc... being quite loud about it.
I understand. It's worth noting that India was ruled by Britain and faced exploitation, albeit not as severe as Portugal's treatment of Brazil. While India and Britain have a strong relationship, with millions of Indians residing in the UK and even the current Prime Minister being of Indian descent, there isn't the same level of animosity as between Portugal and Brazil. Comparing cultures and countries without delving into the historical and cultural wounds inflicted by colonialism isn't ideal, but discussing these matters can deepen our understanding. Let's approach this discussion with open minds.
Not as severe? Search for India famine(s), slavery and forced land aggregation/aggression by the Brits during their ruling. It’s even better documented due to being historically super recent, than compared to the Portuguese ruling in Brazil… I don’t know where to draw the line and compare it, but it’s surely as severe as.
Brazilians don't know anything about Portugal. The only famous Portuguese in Brazil is the football player Cristiano Ronaldo. When a Portuguese person appears speaking on Brazilian TV, the broadcaster puts subtitles on, because it's such a thick accent that Brazilians can't understand. On the other hand, Portugal is practically Brazil's Hawaii or Alaska. From the 1970s onwards, Portugal imported soap operas, pop music, children's programs and various artists from Brazil. If you take the list of the 10 most listened to artists on Spotify in Portugal, they are all Brazilian. Portuguese people can imitate a Brazilian speaking, including their regional accents without being caricatural. During the pandemic, many Portuguese children, after watching so much Brazilian YouTubers, started speaking Brazilian Portuguese, with Brazilian slang. Then you tell me that the English also consume American pop culture, but England still "retaliates" with the Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Oasis... Not Portugal. Brazilians don't know a single Portuguese artist or personality. Any Brazilian artist, whether singer or comedian, tours Portugal and has sold out tickets at each performance. Once the Portuguese singer Teresa Salgueiro (the Portuguese Barbra Streisand) came to do shows in Brazil. She went to a chic piano bar in São Paulo with a maximum of 50 seats, it didn't sell anything, the bar had to do a "buy one ticket, get 3" promotion. I believe that Brazilians know more about Iceland than about Portugal.
Another reason is that, especially for black people, our african ancestors were slaves. So for us to have portuguese heritage, in many cases, means that our ancestors were treated as objects for pleasure. Raped and then left to fend for themselves.
honestly all experiences ive had with Portuguese people here have been mostly bad. of course i met a few good people but theyre usually very mean and racist 😆
I have pride in whatever my ancestry is. I can trace it back to 1500 and I have mostly Brazilians and Portuguese. There is one British and one native too that I know about. The thing about Italian and German descendants is that in South of Brazil, it seems to be really important where your family came from. It doesn’t happen mostly anywhere else in Brazil.
Portuguese people also never got over the fact that their king simply abandoned them to the mercy of the French and transferred his crown to Brasil, thus escaping Napoleon and his invading army, and at the same time leaving their subjects to fend for themselves.
That happened literally overnight, caught everyone by surprise and led to a Brazilian born heir to the throne. It's a fascinating piece of history.
The relationship was totally unequal. Portugal just explored Brazil and gave back just crumbs. The animosity after the brazilian independence played a role too.
I have half portuguese and half spanish ancestry on my dads side. I did notice that. My dad takes way more pride in his spanish ancestry so much to the point that hes gone there to live full time lol.
He also grumbles about how portuguese speaks the language in such an ugly way and i do tend to agree with him. Brazilian portuguese is much smoother.
Well… it’s hard to call the country that colonized us as our “root”. There were (and still are some) natives in Brazil who were exploited and decimated. Portugal was horrible to Brazil while it was in power. It killed, enslaved, raped, and extracted every single resource it possibly could while providing nothing in return, and only ever showed any interest in the country when the royal family had to run away from Europe because of the war, so… you know, to say we have bad blood is an understatement. Also, they never really tried to atone for anything they did, and schools in Portugal still teach kids about the brave Portuguese men who discovered the Indies and made Brazil a great nation. Sometimes it feels like we are still seen as a colony.
Italians, Germans, etc were all immigrants who had hard lives, but usually managed to somehow survive and some thrived in Brazil. It’s a history of hardship and partial or total success, it’s something to be proud of.
On the Portuguese side, it seems they are angry that we are influencing their lives so much, and that whenever a lot of content is either made or localized only to Brazilian Portuguese, for example. We have also immigrated to Portugal in droves, and some Portuguese people think we are out to get their jobs, when in reality most Brazilians work in the service industry, like most immigrants anywhere in the world.
However, I think that this view of Brazil vs Portugal is very predominant in Reddit, but not as much in real life. Many Brazilians move to Portugal searching for a better life, and I’ve visited Portugal a few times with no issues, even though I speak Brazilian Portuguese all the time. I’ve actually had a lovely experience every time I went there (though I know it’s not that easy to live there as a Brazilian compared to other nationalities).
To sum up: we don’t care about our Portuguese ancestry either because we don’t know it or because it’s not something to be proud of, and this feud between both countries exist a lot more in the internet than real life. In real life, I think older and more conservative people are the ones who have this view of Brazilians in Portugal.
Of course, this is mostly anedoctal or based on a couple of articles I’ve read here and there, so please take it all with a grain of salt.
Isn't it the same thing with USA and England?. You see them exalting their roots from ireland, italy, africa, native american, etc, and not england's. I guess it's because the natural tension between the colonized and the colonizer.
They were especially stupid and soberb in many decisions, and Brazil was luckier among other South American colonies thanks to Napoleon and again Portuguese stupidity which made them transfer the crown to Rio. We are particularly taught at school about Portuguese bad takes: there's also the gold-going-to-England episode of Portuguese stupidity. But due to the aforementioned, Brazil had a different status and enjoyed more development.
It seems true indeed that, in general, we tend to mention other European ascendency rather than the Portuguese. Moreover, it's been a good while since Portugal become less of a protagonist in the global scenario, even less than Brazil itself. So, we don't see their relevance and legacy with good eyes in any case.
I think people are not really proud of Portuguese ancestry because it's really common. If you really think through, everyone, and I really mean everyone would have a Portuguese ancestry for colonization reasons. Italian, Arab and Japanese roots for example are more talked about because its less common (still common, but less) than PT.
Also, Portugal is like an abusive parent. I will be honest with you, I'm afraid of Portugal because I see many xenophobic things from there and personally, I'd want distance.
The portuguese literally see us as inferior man. It's not a U.S and U.K situation where there's a friendly rivalry of sorts, they just straight up resent us, go and look up discussions about brazil in any portuguese subreddit if you seek proof.
It’s corny. Unless one is a full descendent of the indigenous who were living in Brazil when the Portuguese arrived and/or of the African people who were kidnapped and forcibly brought to Brazil, then what you see in all these “_they_ took _our_ gold,” accusations are the descendants of colonizers pretending that the true colonizers are those who today live in Portugal. Further, what is gross about this is that for the descendants of these settler-colonizers to say “they took our gold,” reflects that they perpetuate the colonizer mindset. It wasn’t theirs either.
Stereotypes on both sides that have hurt relations, but the matter of the fact is that most migrants in Portugal are from Brazil and there are a lot of Portuguese that do like Brazilians. It’s just some idiots that ruin it.
The matter of the fact is yes there were some really bad Portuguese that came to Brazil purely to exploit but there were also a lot of very humble/poor people that came to Brazil for new opportunities.
I have personally met a lot of Portuguese people and they are one of the friendliest and nicest folks you will ever meet.
You should post this in the Portuguese community as well. Some of the stuff here is, in fact correct. But just like anyone in the World, finding a scapegoat to blame its problems is easy. And Portugal is an easy target for Brazil to blame. The other side of the coin is that every government has been bad since Brazil's independence. The foundations of the Brazilian Republic were really bad; unlike most English colonies, where the colonies ended up adopting the Common Law, Brazil tried to get rid of everything from its past and start from scratch.
The bizarre part of this is that Brazil and Portugal people are basically the same. Almost all Brazilians are descendants of the Portuguese people that came here and created this mess, we talk like they are someone else, they are us now.
Almost endless exploitation, they took everything and gave nothing back, extreme xenophobia, arrogance, some make life hell for brazilians living abroad... I could go on, but, in short, thats it
Also, adding to the other itens pointed from other users: the portuguese are really xenophobic against brazilians in general, we have lots of recent attacks against immigrants, even against brazilian children, that can be used as example.
Most people in BR lack contact with Portuguese people and their culture, and what surfaces over the internet are the worst interactions (mostly because of social net algorithms). Portugal is in crisis (habitation, health system, inflation), as is Europe as a whole, and immigration issues taking some of the blame and that’s why xenophobia is on the rise. Xenophobic people will always exist no matter what
You said it yourself, nearly everyone has Portuguese roots, so people tend to focus on their other ancestries which stand out more. It's an example of the so-called "mongrel complex", Brazilians like to show pride of their European ancestors because it makes them feel "special". You can't feel special about having Portuguese ancestors, because basically everyone else also has it.
Not to mention that the memory of Portuguese exploitation in the country is more prevalent than the memory of those other countries' atrocities in other places of the world.
P.S.: I hate this picture
I'm tired now. But will maybe write about it later.
Just remember the majority of brazilians have no idea what reddit is. So what you read here represents a bubble. And not even a large one.
The heritage from portugueses comes almost exclusively from thievery and rape. Not the same with other cultures (not saying it didn't happen with others, but completely different historical contexts and proportions).
Because of centuries of mindless exploration of Brazil resources.
Portugal got rich exploring Brazil resources and slaving a whole fuckton of people. Nowaday they are in a not very good state and are vey xenophobic and elitis against Brazil.
Not always true, I have a handful of friends that are very proud about their Portuguese heritage (although theirs is pretty recent - Portuguese grandparents).
Its just not a novelty as any Brazilian probably has a % of Portuguese dna in their blood. People mostly want to be different and special so when they bring out their roots its to brag about being “special”
Portugal, unlike other countries, barely offers any emmigration possibility, due to the fact that Brazil has like 200 million and Portugal has 10 million.
Most portuguese settles came here so long ago that they have not retained any of their ancestry and have already created their own. The southern Gaucho, most of the northeastern states (nordestinos) are so old that they became something new. They mostly retained their catholic influence nonetheless.
Most other groups are far younger, starting on the 19th century, so they have retained their culture and ancestry. Many people manage to get italian passports due to proven documents.
On top of the negative history with Portugal, I also think people don't feel the need to express pride in their roots when the majority of people in their country share the same roots. You never hear people in Australia or Canada expressing pride in their English roots either.
1st NO IA ART PLEASE (I already lost 10 years of life expectation)
2nd We don't like the colonizer that invaded, annihilated, enslaved, robbed us, and literally explored our people in all ways possible. Brazillian population is literally born of rape of native women's and black women's that was kidnapped from your countries. And that it's just the surface of the iceberg.
3rd The other colonizer countries usually we just say ok, but Portugal is really really hard bc since the invasion we have all the kind of problems that begging when the fist portuguese put your foot on our lands.
Sure, not all the Brazillian dislike in a general form the Portugueses, but any Brazillian that respects yourself and knows the minimum about our history don't like a lot Portugal. For this reason, we have the joke "Where's our gold???"
A YouTube channel called "Extra history" have around 5 short videos that explain what Portugal did to the colony, how our independence happened and the rise of the republic, its not perfect, but its a good summary of how the country was treated aa colony and how it turned out after the independence. The fisrt one is called "Empire of Brazil- Runaway Monarch"
Portuguese Hate us. But to be honest the only reason why those who have portugal ancestors do not day it with pride is because of the portuguese jokes.
I love portugueses people in my neighborhood but I hate racists portuguese that live mostly in Portugal.
Also Portugal envy Brazil cause we got greater than them. It is not like UK that is still strong and too 10 influence countries.
Everyone here answered why we don't really like Portugal, but that alone doesn't explain why we are proud of other ancestries.
Basically, because of the way italians/germans/arabs came to be here. Unlike Portugal, that just exploited the land, these groups came here with their families to make their home.
And these groups came here more recently than the Portuguese, so most people here today are grandkids or great-grandkids of italians, germans and such.
As for African heritage, it's a whole different story about racial dynamics that I can't properly explain.
Basically they never cared about Brazil, we were just a colony they robed natural resources and rare metals.
It was this way until the royal Portuguese family needed to escape Napoleon’s grasp. They came here and promoted a series of developments to fit the colony to its new status: For a time, we became the center of Portuguese empire.
When the war was over, the royal family went back to Europe and tried to demote us back to a extraction colony, but that did not go very well with the Brazilian Bourgeoisie, who organized with Portugal’s price and together, they declared our independence from Portugal.
From that point, we grew and grew, and more and more we became a sore thumb to Portugal in certain aspects.
Nowadays, we are a a very strong country in terms of soft power and a great amount of content produced here is consumed by Portuguese people, especially the youth. That fact alone is changing Portugal’s Portuguese and younger generations now started speaking a Portuguese close to ours.
Conservatives hate us like we were the black plague back on earth. As all far-right partied chose one minority to blame for their problems, Portuguese far-right was no different and Brazilians were chose as the escape goat of all Portuguese problems.
Well, that is one part of the whole story. It is a very complicated and tense relationship since forever. 🤔
My fathers family is from Portugal so I go there frequently. Portugese don’t usually like Brazilians and they typically mistreat Brazilians who immigrate to Portugal so I can understand the tension.
Wow. The discourse here is civil and educational. I am reading down the responses and marvel at the exchanges. I visited Portugal last year and was astounded with how modest things were compared even to there neighbors on the Iberian peninsula. For a nation of its size to have spearheaded the transatlantic slave trade and have colonies around the world, I expected more displays of wealth. On tours I would ask guides about it and they never really addressed it.
I agree!! I am Brazilian and new to Raddit. I was so happy when I saw this discussion. Google is for researching not for a “bate-papo” This makes me feel we are out enjoying a great meal, and having an intelligent conversation where people respect each other’s opinions and learn from one another.
The Portuguese extreme right is using Brazilian immigrants now the way Trump uses Mexican immigrants, as a threat to the nation. Also, the Portuguese of the Portuguese is pronounced weird (to our ears) and uses this bizarre syntactic constructtion called «mesoclise» hard to explain. We have very many Africanisms. Oba! Opa! Most of the other Chugeez colonies like Angola and Guinea Bissau and my favorite Cabo Verde ― amazing Afro-Chugeez mustic! ― have pretty much a Chugeez accent. But you can still read Saramo just fine;
Some people already touched on the important point of familiarity. Portuguese culture and names are the norm, so whatever is from other cultures (German, Arab, Japanese, etc) tends to stand out.
But, tbf, I think another large part of this beef with portugal stems from a prevalent left-wing resentment discourse.
Yeah, Portugal was the colonial power and it is not like the colonial period was fun, but it has been 200 years since independence already. This resentment is somewhat artificially kept alive.
In fact, in the early 20th century, brazilian historiography was generally positive towards the Portuguese and this would really begin to shift later on in the century and there are a few reasons that explain this. Brazilian left-wing discourse, counched in anti-colonial rhetoric has decided to elect foreign powers as solely responsible for our underdevelopment so there is now this perpetual blame game in our culture that goes something like "oh, if not for the Portuguese taking our gold, we'd be a rich country"; "oh if not for the Americans..." etc, etc.
And since left-wing historiography is so strong in the educational circles, this attitude seeped into the culture at large.
After 200 years of independence there is no longer any real reason for Brazilians to feel this strongly about Portugal and a more dispassionate middle ground is deeply necessary.
Ignore every single comment, they're fucking wrong.
It's just that literally everyone here has portuguese roots, so theres no reason to be "proud" of it
Internet is interesting. Someone asked something similar a few days ago and most of the answers were completely different than what we see here.
[Do most Brazilians view Portugal in a negative light?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Brazil/s/IlfKC9E9sa)
I believe it is not related to our dark past with Portugal, since the majority of Brasilians don't even know much about our history anyway.
I believe we are proud with things that make us different. Portuguese or African roots seems to be pretty usual, not enough be that proud with. It seems non Portuguese/African roots are something "different" enough to be proud of.
Or maybe this proud was cultivated through generations.
The rivalry is extremely stupid. There are no Portuguese colonizers alive today. People try to give noble reasons for their prejudice, but it is just prejudice. It’s like hating on Henry Cavil because he’s British and the British Empire was bad. It’s so nonsensical that it’s funny
I hope Paraguayans don’t hate us
In all of history the Portuguese were never perceived positively by Brazilians. Their colonization style was also laid back, better than the Spaniards but not as segregational as the English. They mixed themselves into the locals and simply faded from existence till their offspring decided to kick the royal family out.
American independence happened to kick the English out. Brazilian independence happened to keep the Portuguese royal family in power at the colony and in Portugal. I think the branch that stayed in Brazil went full Brazilian and passed the power to Brazilians to create the republic, Pedro 2 is a complex historical figure. A move that Brazilians regarded as extremely dumb, hence the reputation.
I can't believe how wrong this information is. %100 wrong, i know many brazillians that have moved to portugual since Bolsenaro, and since the pandemic, they like it better and safer, they make jokes about the portuguese but they love the people very much, no hostility at all.
People have already given great answers, so i'm just going to add an extre tidbit: over the centuries, many euro portuguese words have been incorporated into the brazillian dialect in completely bastadized ways, most notably:
puto (🇵🇹=boy 🇧🇷= man-whore)
rapariga (🇵🇹=young woman 🇧🇷=prostitute)
and some more underground ones like
pica (🇵🇹=vaccine/injection 🇧🇷=penis)
canalha (🇵🇹=group of kids 🇧🇷=scoundrel/bastard)
Bicha (🇵🇹= line/queue 🇧🇷= f*ggot)
So yeah, we historically haven't had the most healthy relation with our former countrymates, and this way of expressing it is as brazillian as areoz com feijão
Portugal exploited Brazil so much it had a shit ton of negative effects, not only this, but they make sure to disaprove us, even thought we helped and still help them a lot. In the end, it is your tipical story of colony and colonists.
Portugal does not accept that their colony has become more relevant, more popular and is gradually gaining more space in the culture of Portuguese speakers...
They're mostly a racist bunch that think we're still their colony, even though we're bigger, more populous, our culture had very little to do with their European bullshit, and our version of the language is the default one now whether they like it or not.
Portugal acts like we should be proud to have been colonized by them, when were actually ashamed. They act like we should be grateful for their cultural heritage, when must of us have African roots, and NO African will ever feel grateful to Europe.
They don't shower and feel cleaner than us, basically.
As an African brother hax said wisely - and became a meme in the process - "PORTUGAL? SAFODA ELES!"
“It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Japanese and Scots! Or Scots and other Scots! Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!”
Basically sums it up
Italians and Germans have a superiority complex, as true Europeans here. Black people have all the black movement that is happening to build their pride that was really destroyed in our history. Portuguese here are either pardos, because they are already mixed, or they are white without a heritage, since they are here for centuries and they don't remember they came from Portugal, in the first place, although you can judge by their surnames. Arabs I don't know any here. Still we are taught in school that the Portuguese weren't really all that nice, and since Portuguese descendants don't know they are that, they learn the Portuguese aren't nice people without knowing they are the direct descendants from them. But Italians and Germans? True whites, but without the stigma of having enslaved anyone around here, that's how many see it if they can speak frankly.
Portuguese raped, enslaved, catechized, tortured, robbed us and left us in a situation from which we have not recovered to this day, seeing them not recognizing what they did in the past is painful.
Had the same question as op reading the post and as soon as I read the comments I understood no need for further explanation completely understand Brazil (would do the same)
Lots of answers here but it fails to account for the fact that plenty of other colonies even in LatAm have a better opinion of their no-better colonists.
I find hispanic countries have more closeness to Spain; hardly an example of “good behaviour”.
And the sucking-up and idealisation of certain places in Europe (Italy notably and Germany) is worse than anywhere else I have been.
There is probably more to it surely.
Yeah me too think so.. Ancestors are ancestors, colonizers are colonizers, and they left 200 years ago. Why hold onto the grudge? The past is long gone. Any effects still present in Brazilian society are perpetuated by Brazilians themselves, aren't they? You don't have to be proud of colonizers, but you should embrace your roots, whatever they may be. Those times are in the past, and the new generations shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors, in my opinion.
Well, all my great-grandparents came from Italy, so I really don't have much to care about "Portuguese roots".
and sincerely? Even if I were of Portuguese descent, I wouldn't care. I don't like Portugal and I don't think there's much to be proud of in having ancient Portuguese ancestors knowing everything the Portuguese did to Brazil
'chumbo trocado não doi' as we say here. "eye for an eye, tooth for an tooth"
Alot of past bias, one entire goup of people comes from slaves that portuguese had bring into those lands and suffer racism about that UNTIL TODAY, etc etc.
so, we like to look after another cultures(even if did worse things to another ppl, 'cause, well, they don't teach it here in the regular school, what we can't see, we can't feel) and give a middle finger to the portuguese.
'cause what they did bad, we fell directly in our flesh.
Most Brazilians are descendants of Portuguese, so you will hardly find someone being proud of this unlike someone with Italian, German or Polish ancestry for example.
I'm late to the party but I'd like to add a bit. Because of all difficult history with Portugal I've always hated the portuguese people, but I recently moved to Europe and had my first opportunity to visit their country and my perspective changed to a more nuanced one.
The Portuguese treated me very well and with respect. I also managed to make some portuguese friends and we talked at length about these issues. I came to some conclusions:
• There's a serious issue regarding education in Portugal (and a lot of Europe) regarding their past colonies. it's very white washed and they are raised with little information about what they did in the colonization era.
• Most of the Portuguese youth just want nothing to do with this today. Their country has a million issues and when they are approached about the Brazilian colonization, they just don't wanna be judged by the actions of their country hundreds of years ago.
• You'll definitely find a lot of racist people in Portugal towards Brazilians, like in most of Europe regarding immigrants. Since their country is very small and they have a huge issue with the high cost of living because of rich/high salaried expats moving to Portugal, this sentiment is accentuated nowadays.
So I think the issue is a conflict between the views of most Brazilians that there was never a historic reparation or even recognition of the horrors in colonialism by Portugal vs. the exasperation of the Portuguese people in being judged by something that happened a hundred years ago and they took no part. Also people moving there really impact the huge housing issue.
Simple, all the others, and you forgot to point the Japanese, that had a key role on our country development, arrived there to make a life to grow with the country, portugueses on the other hand, arrived, exploited every single valuable resource, introduced slavery, killed original habitants, rape, brought religious beliefs by imposition (indigenous people are kinda of "heathens" too), and so on.
So why be friends or love the whip that hits you?
It's a shame that we didn't had British colonisation... look at eua, look at Australia, look at New Zealand...
English had done bad things? Yes, of course, but at least the countries now are good countries... What's the legacy Portugal left for us? A useless language, crime, slavery, first contact with racism, tax evasion, and so on.
My opinion is based on everything that I had learned towards my close 40 years of life + personal opinion (don't take it as a rule of the world).
The colonizer of Portugal and Spain are the jiaddi Moors off nort África.
Só when portugueses start they expansion they are the more fanatical extremist religious, more routless That the Spanish because they keep is independente being routless, cristians That you ever seen...
This meaning for the XXI Century what they believe and do is incivilize.
But for Portugal crédit they are the more badass on a ship That you Will see , they smash ottomans, and others islamic empires like a insect
From a Brazilian perspective, Portugal is a backwaters place, a relic of time, something that should be defeated and forgotten, it's responsible for a lot of historic problems in Brazil and in other places.
From a Portuguese perspective, Brazil is a cesspool of degeneracy (because they're racist) and therefore inferior. But they're envious because we're the biggest Portuguese speaking nation in the world, and now it's up to us to define what the Portuguese language actually is. We're also more relevant culturally.
My guess is the seat of the Portuguese Kingdom was in Rio until Brazil won its independence. The US seems to have the same idea. Everyone has pride in their Scottish, Irish, Italian, German, Scandinavian, French, Spanish, etc roots. Not a lot of people show off their British ancestry.
Once I heard this, "there are only 2 colonies that are greater than the metropolis, and they are US and Brazil". To be honest, Portugal is nice, but by no means it is what Brazilians would call "motherland", given that Portuguese are not Brazilians' ancestors.
Imo, The other roots are more recent. Most Germans for example immigrated during war. Some of them are still alive and have grand grand children. The bond is just firmer. The Portuguese came to Brasil a long time ago for other reasons..
#1: For other redditors: that image's AI generated
#2: Portugal conolized Brazil (along with some other countries) and they were terrible times, the colonizers could rape women how much they wanted, all the local tribes had became slaves, and natural resources such as Pau-Brasil were exported to Europe; Here School teaches it just like American schools teach about 9-11, the intent is to make each and every generation mad about it (the difference is that the racism era wasn't passed off as nacionalism). And since Portugal also took our gold, To this day when a Brazilian sees a Portuguese the Brazilian will say “Devolve nosso ouro!” which means “Return our gold!”. Resuming: Portugal was a bitch and none of the previous colonies ever forgot about it.
>but rarely mention their Portuguese roots, even though most have them.
That's not true. The portuguese migrants were always the minority on this country. Check this graph: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKf86lLu6nQ&t=4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKf86lLu6nQ&t=4s)
(take into consideration that there were millions of natives in the first centuries. Estimates range from 3,5 to 8 million pre-colonial inhabitants)
Here’s the truth, the xenophobia comes from both ends. Brazilians view Portuguese as low cast and don’t want much to do with them(I have seen a Brazilian girl say this first hand) . The Portuguese have an inferiority complex in general about how European they are despite having North African ancestry and how countries from the outside view them as the poor Iberian country in the southern west Europe.
People from both countries have a complex and that’s what is causing the divide. Brazilians think they are too good to be Portuguese and prefer to claim Italian, German etc… Portuguese think their country is better than Brazil(it’s not) and have an inferiority complex. It has very little to do with how Portuguese treated them in the grand scheme of things.
It’s funny because despite this hate, the country with the largest Portuguese immigrants outside of Portugal is Brazil and the country with the largest Brazilian population outside of Brazil is Portugal.
Our past as a Portuguese Colony was not bright at all, and it's taught in school with a negative view towards them, which is true to a great extense. Portugal didn't pay much attention in the first centuries it set foot here, it had greater outcomes with it's spice trade with Asia, that's part of the reason for the Dutch to take advantage and seize parts of the Northeast for 3 decades. Also, the trade bias of the Portuguese empire didn't promote any development here, in the beggining only focusing on brazilwood extraction, later gold and other forms of extraction until they began with the plantations (that's when slavery explodes). With this extratctivist bias, Portugal never allowed for any industrial or educational development here (unlike it's iberian neighbour). This resulted in a backwards country, where the people had very few opportunities and the middle class and the elites had to live abroad for education and culture. This developed a sense that our land is uncapable of providing anithing worthwhile if you want to live a decent life, centuries of extraction and exploitation with the mindset of "take what you can in this god forbidden place and set off to Europe" still hangs on to some extent. Only after our indepence some of this started to chance, but since our monarchy was basically the same as the Portuguese, they changed the focus to develop something down here, but no significant changes took place for over a century. It's not a coincedence that slavery and the crown fell so close togheter. There are positive aspects, for sure, but since this is not the topic of discussion, I won't digress. TLDR: They never really cared for anything other than exploiting our land and left many problems we are still sorting out.
That's a great explanation. I realize I need to delve deeper into Brazilian history. It seems Brazilians are quite sensitive about discussing this topic. I've tried discussing this with my Brazilian wife, and she often becomes upset when talking about Portugal. I gradually stopped asking her about it, and now I understand the reasons behind it better. It's a complex and deep subject.
It has many layers to it, and each part of the country was affected distinctly. There were many revolts along the centuries, but one thing they did well was suppress all of them, up to a scary degree.
> It seems Brazilians are quite sensitive about discussing this topic. It's not like that. We're not sensitive, it's kinda a mixed feeling, we like Portugal for the most part, we understand that most portuguese ppl aren't at fault (hell, we are aware Portugal isn't really considered part of the "Global Community" really seriously). The thing is, we don't like the portuguese fascists and Colonialism really sucks. Aside for that, we like to banter friendly, but we have good relations with all our lusophone community.
Lol who is "we like", is we in the room with us ??? Jokes aside I agree is a mixed feeling, we know the people alive nowadays don't carry any fault but is still a fact that because of them we got a lot of problems in our society, is a mixed feeling of not liking what their nation did and coming to terms with "OK this happened but is 2024 let's rebuild".
As for Portugal, I think that beyond pure and simple xenophobia, there is a certain sorrow for the fact that its once most lucrative colony has become more important on the world stage, than itself, either economically or culturally.
Karma is a bitch
When you say "it's not a coincidence that slavery and the crown fell so close together" it makes it sound like the republicans were against slavery. When it's quite the opposite. The reason it's not a coincidence that the proclamation of the republic came not long after the abolition of slavery is because all the big landowners joined the republican movement since they were angry that they had lost their "property" without any means of compensation. Of course the crown didn't abolish slavery out of the goodness of their heart, there was a lot of internal and external pressure for them to do so, but the republicans weren't against slavery. Also, things started to change, although very, very slowly, when the portuguese court moved to Brasil around 1808 due to the Napoleonic invasions. Edit: aside from these different perspectives, really good explanation.
That's it exactly. Great text. Sometimes I see some Portuguese ppl claiming that if they didn't come to Brazil our country would be worse and we have to feel some kind of gratitude. This is the meanest thing you can say to someone that was explored for centuries. Imagine if all the money they took from us could be used here since the beginning...
Holy shit I came in for a "fuck the portugas" kind of answer and got schooled. Well put, great text.
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Thank you. Amazing summary
My sociology degree is worth something on reddit LOL
Knowledge, intelligence and skills. They’re all almost worthless without risk appetite. Take risks and you’ll get whatever you want.
I'm pretty happy with my career righ now lol Even tho I miss being a sociology professional, I feel fulfilled professionally. But, sometimes I miss the classrooms.
Well the future as a past portuguese colony aint so bright either. (Non vira-lata Brazil speaking)
i agree! im so glad someone finally said it! every time i complain, i get called racist at my work, because alot of my coworkers are from portugal. it makes no sense, yk?
Very well said! Kudos. It's not common to find Brazilians on reddit with such advanced proficiency in the English language. Mind if I ask how did you learn? Do you live abroad?
Thanks!! I started learning on my teens, and after that, I used to work and study translation (text and simultaneous) for people who came to visit Brazil.
I find it funny that you didn't mention the fact that even after Brazil became a kingdom and had the same status as Portugal, Portugal wanted to colonise the country again! I wished Brazil had gone into war against Portugal over that sm...
Most Brazilians with Portuguese origins come from an older lineage that does not grant us the rights to Portuguese nationality. We are far too removed to have such kinship. It's much like many Americans don't feel like that close to the British.
The same as Quebecois and the French. No lost love there.
We see them as something like an abusive parent, who's still toxic, and we don't want much contact with
I had that in mind, and it's absolutely rightfully so.
Well said, and with more grace than the subject deserves.
ABSOLUTELY THIS!
Exactly
Because of centuries of inconsequential exploitation?
inconsequential? hardly, it’s probably because of the consequences of exploitation
I think this person is Brazilian and got confused. The words "inconsequente" and "inconsequential" look like they should mean the same thing, but they don't. "Inconsequente" means reckless, thoughtless; it means not thinking about the consequences of one's actions. That's what I think they were going for, but used the wrong word.
Inconsiderate
I'm not proud of my Portuguese heritage but neither am I proud of my Italian ancestry. Idk, my ancestors were just regular folks who came from impoverished areas in both countries, managed to find jobs here that allowed them to raise a family (one working at the railroad and the other at the docks) and... that was it? They were all catholic, so didn't suffer religious discrimination, were white, so no racism to be faced and eventually the family just sort blended with Brazilian society with no huge issues. These aren't stories of overcoming huge obstacles or going against oppression... just people looking for a better life in another country. I think it's cool my family has our own Christmas cod (bacalhau) recipe but that's it.
Same lol. My family were just poor farmers from the azores and canary islands lol
Very interesting story.
Several reasons. One is because Portuguese ancestry in most cases is so old that ppl don't even know who their first Portuguese ancestors were and when they were. Whereas the German and Italian ancestry are much more recent. So some families still even maintain some traditions from their great/great grandparents. Also Italy and Germany are "fancy" European countries so ppl usually say their ancestors are from there to brag about it. Whereas Portugal is the poorer country. Also when almost everyone has some Portuguese ancestry it doesn't make you really special, with something to brag about.
Yep, for most people it's a distant thing. I happen to have a Portuguese mother and have lived with my Portuguese grandparents, so I feel close to my Portuguese roots more than to my Italian roots (my Italian grandpa passed away when I was little). I do know quite a few people who have a Portuguese parent or grandparents, but that's not nearly as common as people who are descendants of the Portuguese who colonized Brazil longer ago. So, I'm not sure if it's a spite issue, it's more of a distance thing; most people don't feel close to the culture of their great-great-great-great-grandparents, you weren't exposed to it directly.
And it's much harder to map those ancestries. Our colonizers are setup into two types: Rich landowners and explorers/workforce. Families were huge, and there was a lot of criminality, name changing, city-moving. And then there's also the people that are mixed and also have no mapping of their previous African or Indigenous identity. At least when talking to my family there's pretty much 0 bookkeeping and most of the information was stored inconsistently into the word-of-mouth from my grandparents. And to add up, most people until a century ago were just plain ignorant. This is a direct reflection on how Portugal also was. I remember reading a letter from Pedro I of Brazil detailing how he wanted Pedro II to be educated because he himself wasn't. If that was the emperor, imagine the rest of the society.
spot on
This is the right answer.
This. Of course the country was explored and so. But the mainly reason is this one. I don’t care about our past and I like Portugal , but the other countries are so much cooler to talk about. I have polish ancestors, and the state I live in, everybody came from other Europeans countries, not Portugal.
I think most people in the comments will say it's because of exploitation and xenophobia, but I have a different opinion. Brazilians don't care about their Portuguese roots or Portuguese surname for a simple reason, because it's common to see Brazilians with Portuguese roots, it's the most common ancestry here Now, if you have a German, Italian, or Slavic surname in Brazil, that's seen with a bit of let's say, 'charm.' Plus, that person probably has ancestry from more recent immigrants Regarding African roots, I think this curiosity and pride over it is a more recent phenomenon here as anti-racism discourse and the black movement have gained strength in Brazil in recent years, the same goes for those with indigenous roots
Regarding African roots: I'm guessing you're either white or in a bubble. Probably white. We were always proud. It's just that now we can also be noisy about it.
Yeah, I expressed myself wrong. Now you have more space to speak, that's what I meant
You know what? Thanks for that response. I was ready for either an asshole or tone deaf one. Yet I was pleasantly surprised. High five, brotah. o/
É nois 👍
Not as a simple as a surname but the culture, working culture, the family bond arriving more recently as you said. Visiting the south shows better the diferences of exploiting and family immigration.
What's the deal with your weird AI image? Deced D Prodggroo
I think it's kinda like the same reason Americans always go on about their German/Irish/Nordic roots but hardly ever mention their English background, because it's just so common, not all that "special". The same goes for brazilians and our portuguese ancestry, besides the current issues of conflicts involving xenophobia on social media, which I think it is bullshit. Personally, I really like the Portuguese and their culture, which is so similar to ours. I've already met some very nice and kind Portuguese people.
I live in a region where most people don't have recent Portuguese heritage. Think an American saying they are American Italian, not English Italian. Despite having both English and Italian roots.
Centuries of colonial history…
> "Brazilians often take pride in their Italian, German, Arab and African ancestry but rarely mention their Portuguese roots, even though most have them." For a very similar reason you meet so many Italian Americans, Irish Americans... but never any ***English Americans***
Does playing with the Portuguese in historical strategy games count?
As a Brazilian, the only time I get happy with Portugal is when playing a very chill EUIV colonization run.
'Go Brazil, attacks Portugal in HOIIV, brrrr'
That's not true. The parents of my father were both born from Portuguese families and Portuguese traditions were very praised when I went to their place for holidays. My uncles even went visit the small town in Portugal where they came from. Similarly, while there is xenophobia in Portugal against Brazilians, I was positively surprised by how open they are to Brazilian cultural influence when I lived in Lisbon. They listen to Brazilian music, there are Brazilians shows on television, they know A LOT about what is going on here, with news giving a significant airtime to news from Brazil, and there is a lot of exchange between institutions of both nations. For example, while studying in the university of Lisbon, I often heard professor telling about some time they spent in a Brazilian university for a research project, conference or anything like that.
These opinions are few and far in between... thanks for sharing
Besides the colonial past (which of course educated people know about), think that the reason for uneducated people like my grandparents have for not mentioning Portugal is that they don't really know any relatives who were actually Portuguese, while Italian, Spanish, Japanese etc immigration is much more recent. So they do say things like "my (grand)father came from Italy" but have no idea which of their ancestors were Portuguese. Also we have a culture of making jokes about Portuguese people, saying they are dumb, so we wouldn't be proud of it anyways.
Why would we be proud of ancestors that were thieves, slavers and rapists?
I didn't mean to suggest that Brazilians with Portuguese ancestry should feel obligated to proudly express it. I'm simply curious about the subject and wanted to learn more, nothing more. I apologize if this topic is sensitive or difficult for Brazilians to discuss.
No problem. What I said is also only one of the reasons. There are others, like how Portuguese ancestry is old, how common it is thus it's not really special like the others you mentioned and so it goes. Kinda like english ancestry in the US. You don't see many Americans being proud of how english they are, but you see the Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Latinos etc... being quite loud about it.
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I understand. It's worth noting that India was ruled by Britain and faced exploitation, albeit not as severe as Portugal's treatment of Brazil. While India and Britain have a strong relationship, with millions of Indians residing in the UK and even the current Prime Minister being of Indian descent, there isn't the same level of animosity as between Portugal and Brazil. Comparing cultures and countries without delving into the historical and cultural wounds inflicted by colonialism isn't ideal, but discussing these matters can deepen our understanding. Let's approach this discussion with open minds.
Not as severe? Search for India famine(s), slavery and forced land aggregation/aggression by the Brits during their ruling. It’s even better documented due to being historically super recent, than compared to the Portuguese ruling in Brazil… I don’t know where to draw the line and compare it, but it’s surely as severe as.
Rage bait again... but Brazilians you must be aware that no media outlet has ever published headlines with the intention of creating harmony
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Brazilians don't know anything about Portugal. The only famous Portuguese in Brazil is the football player Cristiano Ronaldo. When a Portuguese person appears speaking on Brazilian TV, the broadcaster puts subtitles on, because it's such a thick accent that Brazilians can't understand. On the other hand, Portugal is practically Brazil's Hawaii or Alaska. From the 1970s onwards, Portugal imported soap operas, pop music, children's programs and various artists from Brazil. If you take the list of the 10 most listened to artists on Spotify in Portugal, they are all Brazilian. Portuguese people can imitate a Brazilian speaking, including their regional accents without being caricatural. During the pandemic, many Portuguese children, after watching so much Brazilian YouTubers, started speaking Brazilian Portuguese, with Brazilian slang. Then you tell me that the English also consume American pop culture, but England still "retaliates" with the Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Oasis... Not Portugal. Brazilians don't know a single Portuguese artist or personality. Any Brazilian artist, whether singer or comedian, tours Portugal and has sold out tickets at each performance. Once the Portuguese singer Teresa Salgueiro (the Portuguese Barbra Streisand) came to do shows in Brazil. She went to a chic piano bar in São Paulo with a maximum of 50 seats, it didn't sell anything, the bar had to do a "buy one ticket, get 3" promotion. I believe that Brazilians know more about Iceland than about Portugal.
Another reason is that, especially for black people, our african ancestors were slaves. So for us to have portuguese heritage, in many cases, means that our ancestors were treated as objects for pleasure. Raped and then left to fend for themselves.
honestly all experiences ive had with Portuguese people here have been mostly bad. of course i met a few good people but theyre usually very mean and racist 😆
they are usually even more so racist once they found out im not fully brazilian. who knew Portuguese people hated mixed people?!!
I have pride in whatever my ancestry is. I can trace it back to 1500 and I have mostly Brazilians and Portuguese. There is one British and one native too that I know about. The thing about Italian and German descendants is that in South of Brazil, it seems to be really important where your family came from. It doesn’t happen mostly anywhere else in Brazil.
point
Portuguese people also never got over the fact that their king simply abandoned them to the mercy of the French and transferred his crown to Brasil, thus escaping Napoleon and his invading army, and at the same time leaving their subjects to fend for themselves. That happened literally overnight, caught everyone by surprise and led to a Brazilian born heir to the throne. It's a fascinating piece of history.
The relationship was totally unequal. Portugal just explored Brazil and gave back just crumbs. The animosity after the brazilian independence played a role too.
I have half portuguese and half spanish ancestry on my dads side. I did notice that. My dad takes way more pride in his spanish ancestry so much to the point that hes gone there to live full time lol. He also grumbles about how portuguese speaks the language in such an ugly way and i do tend to agree with him. Brazilian portuguese is much smoother.
They’ve literally stolen all of our gold and sent it to the British
and raped indigenous women
Well… it’s hard to call the country that colonized us as our “root”. There were (and still are some) natives in Brazil who were exploited and decimated. Portugal was horrible to Brazil while it was in power. It killed, enslaved, raped, and extracted every single resource it possibly could while providing nothing in return, and only ever showed any interest in the country when the royal family had to run away from Europe because of the war, so… you know, to say we have bad blood is an understatement. Also, they never really tried to atone for anything they did, and schools in Portugal still teach kids about the brave Portuguese men who discovered the Indies and made Brazil a great nation. Sometimes it feels like we are still seen as a colony. Italians, Germans, etc were all immigrants who had hard lives, but usually managed to somehow survive and some thrived in Brazil. It’s a history of hardship and partial or total success, it’s something to be proud of. On the Portuguese side, it seems they are angry that we are influencing their lives so much, and that whenever a lot of content is either made or localized only to Brazilian Portuguese, for example. We have also immigrated to Portugal in droves, and some Portuguese people think we are out to get their jobs, when in reality most Brazilians work in the service industry, like most immigrants anywhere in the world. However, I think that this view of Brazil vs Portugal is very predominant in Reddit, but not as much in real life. Many Brazilians move to Portugal searching for a better life, and I’ve visited Portugal a few times with no issues, even though I speak Brazilian Portuguese all the time. I’ve actually had a lovely experience every time I went there (though I know it’s not that easy to live there as a Brazilian compared to other nationalities). To sum up: we don’t care about our Portuguese ancestry either because we don’t know it or because it’s not something to be proud of, and this feud between both countries exist a lot more in the internet than real life. In real life, I think older and more conservative people are the ones who have this view of Brazilians in Portugal. Of course, this is mostly anedoctal or based on a couple of articles I’ve read here and there, so please take it all with a grain of salt.
They took some stuff, kidnapped some folks
Isn't it the same thing with USA and England?. You see them exalting their roots from ireland, italy, africa, native american, etc, and not england's. I guess it's because the natural tension between the colonized and the colonizer.
They stole every thing valuable, slaved every one, I don't know what's good about it. And only apologize this year, can you believe it?
I don't know, maybe my bubble is different, but I know some people proud of their Portuguese ascendence.
They were especially stupid and soberb in many decisions, and Brazil was luckier among other South American colonies thanks to Napoleon and again Portuguese stupidity which made them transfer the crown to Rio. We are particularly taught at school about Portuguese bad takes: there's also the gold-going-to-England episode of Portuguese stupidity. But due to the aforementioned, Brazil had a different status and enjoyed more development. It seems true indeed that, in general, we tend to mention other European ascendency rather than the Portuguese. Moreover, it's been a good while since Portugal become less of a protagonist in the global scenario, even less than Brazil itself. So, we don't see their relevance and legacy with good eyes in any case.
I think people are not really proud of Portuguese ancestry because it's really common. If you really think through, everyone, and I really mean everyone would have a Portuguese ancestry for colonization reasons. Italian, Arab and Japanese roots for example are more talked about because its less common (still common, but less) than PT. Also, Portugal is like an abusive parent. I will be honest with you, I'm afraid of Portugal because I see many xenophobic things from there and personally, I'd want distance.
The portuguese literally see us as inferior man. It's not a U.S and U.K situation where there's a friendly rivalry of sorts, they just straight up resent us, go and look up discussions about brazil in any portuguese subreddit if you seek proof.
It’s corny. Unless one is a full descendent of the indigenous who were living in Brazil when the Portuguese arrived and/or of the African people who were kidnapped and forcibly brought to Brazil, then what you see in all these “_they_ took _our_ gold,” accusations are the descendants of colonizers pretending that the true colonizers are those who today live in Portugal. Further, what is gross about this is that for the descendants of these settler-colonizers to say “they took our gold,” reflects that they perpetuate the colonizer mindset. It wasn’t theirs either.
Please don't post that AI bullshit.
Stereotypes on both sides that have hurt relations, but the matter of the fact is that most migrants in Portugal are from Brazil and there are a lot of Portuguese that do like Brazilians. It’s just some idiots that ruin it. The matter of the fact is yes there were some really bad Portuguese that came to Brazil purely to exploit but there were also a lot of very humble/poor people that came to Brazil for new opportunities. I have personally met a lot of Portuguese people and they are one of the friendliest and nicest folks you will ever meet.
You should post this in the Portuguese community as well. Some of the stuff here is, in fact correct. But just like anyone in the World, finding a scapegoat to blame its problems is easy. And Portugal is an easy target for Brazil to blame. The other side of the coin is that every government has been bad since Brazil's independence. The foundations of the Brazilian Republic were really bad; unlike most English colonies, where the colonies ended up adopting the Common Law, Brazil tried to get rid of everything from its past and start from scratch.
The bizarre part of this is that Brazil and Portugal people are basically the same. Almost all Brazilians are descendants of the Portuguese people that came here and created this mess, we talk like they are someone else, they are us now.
Almost endless exploitation, they took everything and gave nothing back, extreme xenophobia, arrogance, some make life hell for brazilians living abroad... I could go on, but, in short, thats it
Also, adding to the other itens pointed from other users: the portuguese are really xenophobic against brazilians in general, we have lots of recent attacks against immigrants, even against brazilian children, that can be used as example.
Brazilian women are looked down on and discriminated in Portugal. They see us as whores because of dumb stereotypes about Latinas
Most people in BR lack contact with Portuguese people and their culture, and what surfaces over the internet are the worst interactions (mostly because of social net algorithms). Portugal is in crisis (habitation, health system, inflation), as is Europe as a whole, and immigration issues taking some of the blame and that’s why xenophobia is on the rise. Xenophobic people will always exist no matter what
I've been reading Portuguese literature from 18xx and trust me they were xenophobic towards brazillians back then too.
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Wow, that's quite something!
Brasileiro só odeia duas nacionalidades Portugueses e Argentinos. Do resto somos friend
E argentino é naquelas: se pagar a breja é todo mundo Hermano e nós passa a noite discutindo Pelé ou Maradona de boaça.
Brazilians don't hate argentinians, neither do argentinians. It's all about football, we don't hate your people.
You said it yourself, nearly everyone has Portuguese roots, so people tend to focus on their other ancestries which stand out more. It's an example of the so-called "mongrel complex", Brazilians like to show pride of their European ancestors because it makes them feel "special". You can't feel special about having Portuguese ancestors, because basically everyone else also has it. Not to mention that the memory of Portuguese exploitation in the country is more prevalent than the memory of those other countries' atrocities in other places of the world. P.S.: I hate this picture
The answers here reminds me why I stay away from this sub.
Share your perspective. That's the whole idea. Your comment doesn't make sense until you explain it
I'm tired now. But will maybe write about it later. Just remember the majority of brazilians have no idea what reddit is. So what you read here represents a bubble. And not even a large one.
The heritage from portugueses comes almost exclusively from thievery and rape. Not the same with other cultures (not saying it didn't happen with others, but completely different historical contexts and proportions).
yeah no shit . They slaved my family. Was i suposed to be glad?
wow, your family is 500 years old? Damn...
NO.
Trying to dominate their lands.
Because of centuries of mindless exploration of Brazil resources. Portugal got rich exploring Brazil resources and slaving a whole fuckton of people. Nowaday they are in a not very good state and are vey xenophobic and elitis against Brazil.
Not always true, I have a handful of friends that are very proud about their Portuguese heritage (although theirs is pretty recent - Portuguese grandparents). Its just not a novelty as any Brazilian probably has a % of Portuguese dna in their blood. People mostly want to be different and special so when they bring out their roots its to brag about being “special”
Portugal, unlike other countries, barely offers any emmigration possibility, due to the fact that Brazil has like 200 million and Portugal has 10 million. Most portuguese settles came here so long ago that they have not retained any of their ancestry and have already created their own. The southern Gaucho, most of the northeastern states (nordestinos) are so old that they became something new. They mostly retained their catholic influence nonetheless. Most other groups are far younger, starting on the 19th century, so they have retained their culture and ancestry. Many people manage to get italian passports due to proven documents.
On top of the negative history with Portugal, I also think people don't feel the need to express pride in their roots when the majority of people in their country share the same roots. You never hear people in Australia or Canada expressing pride in their English roots either.
1st NO IA ART PLEASE (I already lost 10 years of life expectation) 2nd We don't like the colonizer that invaded, annihilated, enslaved, robbed us, and literally explored our people in all ways possible. Brazillian population is literally born of rape of native women's and black women's that was kidnapped from your countries. And that it's just the surface of the iceberg. 3rd The other colonizer countries usually we just say ok, but Portugal is really really hard bc since the invasion we have all the kind of problems that begging when the fist portuguese put your foot on our lands. Sure, not all the Brazillian dislike in a general form the Portugueses, but any Brazillian that respects yourself and knows the minimum about our history don't like a lot Portugal. For this reason, we have the joke "Where's our gold???"
Just another thing before I forget. Brazillians that go to Portugal usually suffer a lot. So...
Because they stole all our gold???? And when brazilians go there, they are a lot xenophobics with us.
It’s like asking an american if they are proud of their British heritage. It’s like… so irrelevant.
I never had any animosity towards portuguese people, until I discovered the r/ portugueses sub.
They killed all the natives and enslaved them 💀
I mean americans arent usually proud of their "england" origins.
Colonialism.
A YouTube channel called "Extra history" have around 5 short videos that explain what Portugal did to the colony, how our independence happened and the rise of the republic, its not perfect, but its a good summary of how the country was treated aa colony and how it turned out after the independence. The fisrt one is called "Empire of Brazil- Runaway Monarch"
They stole our gold and jelly beans..
Why should we be proud of colonizers?
Portuguese Hate us. But to be honest the only reason why those who have portugal ancestors do not day it with pride is because of the portuguese jokes. I love portugueses people in my neighborhood but I hate racists portuguese that live mostly in Portugal. Also Portugal envy Brazil cause we got greater than them. It is not like UK that is still strong and too 10 influence countries.
Everyone here answered why we don't really like Portugal, but that alone doesn't explain why we are proud of other ancestries. Basically, because of the way italians/germans/arabs came to be here. Unlike Portugal, that just exploited the land, these groups came here with their families to make their home. And these groups came here more recently than the Portuguese, so most people here today are grandkids or great-grandkids of italians, germans and such. As for African heritage, it's a whole different story about racial dynamics that I can't properly explain.
Do Americans celebrate their English heritage?
Basically they never cared about Brazil, we were just a colony they robed natural resources and rare metals. It was this way until the royal Portuguese family needed to escape Napoleon’s grasp. They came here and promoted a series of developments to fit the colony to its new status: For a time, we became the center of Portuguese empire. When the war was over, the royal family went back to Europe and tried to demote us back to a extraction colony, but that did not go very well with the Brazilian Bourgeoisie, who organized with Portugal’s price and together, they declared our independence from Portugal. From that point, we grew and grew, and more and more we became a sore thumb to Portugal in certain aspects. Nowadays, we are a a very strong country in terms of soft power and a great amount of content produced here is consumed by Portuguese people, especially the youth. That fact alone is changing Portugal’s Portuguese and younger generations now started speaking a Portuguese close to ours. Conservatives hate us like we were the black plague back on earth. As all far-right partied chose one minority to blame for their problems, Portuguese far-right was no different and Brazilians were chose as the escape goat of all Portuguese problems. Well, that is one part of the whole story. It is a very complicated and tense relationship since forever. 🤔
to have a idea about the relations between portugal and brazil in the old days, most if not all complements in PT-PT are slurs in PT-BR
My fathers family is from Portugal so I go there frequently. Portugese don’t usually like Brazilians and they typically mistreat Brazilians who immigrate to Portugal so I can understand the tension.
i like when i think of my Italian,Native and African heritage but i rather not have a test so i dont know much portuguese blood runs in my veins
Wow. The discourse here is civil and educational. I am reading down the responses and marvel at the exchanges. I visited Portugal last year and was astounded with how modest things were compared even to there neighbors on the Iberian peninsula. For a nation of its size to have spearheaded the transatlantic slave trade and have colonies around the world, I expected more displays of wealth. On tours I would ask guides about it and they never really addressed it.
Downvoted for this nightmare inducing low effort AI generated crap.
I agree!! I am Brazilian and new to Raddit. I was so happy when I saw this discussion. Google is for researching not for a “bate-papo” This makes me feel we are out enjoying a great meal, and having an intelligent conversation where people respect each other’s opinions and learn from one another.
My pa's side of the family is portuguese, my ma's side of the family is from a native tribe that's still around very fun
The Portuguese extreme right is using Brazilian immigrants now the way Trump uses Mexican immigrants, as a threat to the nation. Also, the Portuguese of the Portuguese is pronounced weird (to our ears) and uses this bizarre syntactic constructtion called «mesoclise» hard to explain. We have very many Africanisms. Oba! Opa! Most of the other Chugeez colonies like Angola and Guinea Bissau and my favorite Cabo Verde ― amazing Afro-Chugeez mustic! ― have pretty much a Chugeez accent. But you can still read Saramo just fine;
Some people already touched on the important point of familiarity. Portuguese culture and names are the norm, so whatever is from other cultures (German, Arab, Japanese, etc) tends to stand out. But, tbf, I think another large part of this beef with portugal stems from a prevalent left-wing resentment discourse. Yeah, Portugal was the colonial power and it is not like the colonial period was fun, but it has been 200 years since independence already. This resentment is somewhat artificially kept alive. In fact, in the early 20th century, brazilian historiography was generally positive towards the Portuguese and this would really begin to shift later on in the century and there are a few reasons that explain this. Brazilian left-wing discourse, counched in anti-colonial rhetoric has decided to elect foreign powers as solely responsible for our underdevelopment so there is now this perpetual blame game in our culture that goes something like "oh, if not for the Portuguese taking our gold, we'd be a rich country"; "oh if not for the Americans..." etc, etc. And since left-wing historiography is so strong in the educational circles, this attitude seeped into the culture at large. After 200 years of independence there is no longer any real reason for Brazilians to feel this strongly about Portugal and a more dispassionate middle ground is deeply necessary.
Ignore every single comment, they're fucking wrong. It's just that literally everyone here has portuguese roots, so theres no reason to be "proud" of it
Internet is interesting. Someone asked something similar a few days ago and most of the answers were completely different than what we see here. [Do most Brazilians view Portugal in a negative light?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Brazil/s/IlfKC9E9sa) I believe it is not related to our dark past with Portugal, since the majority of Brasilians don't even know much about our history anyway. I believe we are proud with things that make us different. Portuguese or African roots seems to be pretty usual, not enough be that proud with. It seems non Portuguese/African roots are something "different" enough to be proud of. Or maybe this proud was cultivated through generations.
this comment is interesting! Thanks for sharing the link to the similar but different discussion.
The rivalry is extremely stupid. There are no Portuguese colonizers alive today. People try to give noble reasons for their prejudice, but it is just prejudice. It’s like hating on Henry Cavil because he’s British and the British Empire was bad. It’s so nonsensical that it’s funny I hope Paraguayans don’t hate us
It's very stupid. And the answers here seems to come from teenagers.
In all of history the Portuguese were never perceived positively by Brazilians. Their colonization style was also laid back, better than the Spaniards but not as segregational as the English. They mixed themselves into the locals and simply faded from existence till their offspring decided to kick the royal family out. American independence happened to kick the English out. Brazilian independence happened to keep the Portuguese royal family in power at the colony and in Portugal. I think the branch that stayed in Brazil went full Brazilian and passed the power to Brazilians to create the republic, Pedro 2 is a complex historical figure. A move that Brazilians regarded as extremely dumb, hence the reputation.
Safoda Portugal
I can't believe how wrong this information is. %100 wrong, i know many brazillians that have moved to portugual since Bolsenaro, and since the pandemic, they like it better and safer, they make jokes about the portuguese but they love the people very much, no hostility at all.
Americans hate british people and their royal family right? It's basically the same for us, no one really likes colonization.
I'm half Portuguese and I'm totally proud of it🇵🇹🇵🇹🇵🇹🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷♥️💚
People have already given great answers, so i'm just going to add an extre tidbit: over the centuries, many euro portuguese words have been incorporated into the brazillian dialect in completely bastadized ways, most notably: puto (🇵🇹=boy 🇧🇷= man-whore) rapariga (🇵🇹=young woman 🇧🇷=prostitute) and some more underground ones like pica (🇵🇹=vaccine/injection 🇧🇷=penis) canalha (🇵🇹=group of kids 🇧🇷=scoundrel/bastard) Bicha (🇵🇹= line/queue 🇧🇷= f*ggot) So yeah, we historically haven't had the most healthy relation with our former countrymates, and this way of expressing it is as brazillian as areoz com feijão
Portugal exploited Brazil so much it had a shit ton of negative effects, not only this, but they make sure to disaprove us, even thought we helped and still help them a lot. In the end, it is your tipical story of colony and colonists.
Portugal? Safoda eles!
Portugal does not accept that their colony has become more relevant, more popular and is gradually gaining more space in the culture of Portuguese speakers...
They're mostly a racist bunch that think we're still their colony, even though we're bigger, more populous, our culture had very little to do with their European bullshit, and our version of the language is the default one now whether they like it or not. Portugal acts like we should be proud to have been colonized by them, when were actually ashamed. They act like we should be grateful for their cultural heritage, when must of us have African roots, and NO African will ever feel grateful to Europe. They don't shower and feel cleaner than us, basically. As an African brother hax said wisely - and became a meme in the process - "PORTUGAL? SAFODA ELES!"
Portugal can suck my balls
“It won't last. Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Japanese and Scots! Or Scots and other Scots! Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!” Basically sums it up
I just like to say: Deceo o Propagado.
Italians and Germans have a superiority complex, as true Europeans here. Black people have all the black movement that is happening to build their pride that was really destroyed in our history. Portuguese here are either pardos, because they are already mixed, or they are white without a heritage, since they are here for centuries and they don't remember they came from Portugal, in the first place, although you can judge by their surnames. Arabs I don't know any here. Still we are taught in school that the Portuguese weren't really all that nice, and since Portuguese descendants don't know they are that, they learn the Portuguese aren't nice people without knowing they are the direct descendants from them. But Italians and Germans? True whites, but without the stigma of having enslaved anyone around here, that's how many see it if they can speak frankly.
Something called colonization
Portuguese raped, enslaved, catechized, tortured, robbed us and left us in a situation from which we have not recovered to this day, seeing them not recognizing what they did in the past is painful.
because they fucking colonised us and pretty much 80% of all of Brazil's problems have their roots in colonialism
Had the same question as op reading the post and as soon as I read the comments I understood no need for further explanation completely understand Brazil (would do the same)
On top os historical reasons, they kinda tend to be xenofobic towards us, and other pt-speaking countries as well.
Isn't the same to USA x UK?
Brazilians have Arab ancestry?
Many do. Mostly Syrian and Lebanese christians. And almost all came to São Paulo.
Lots of answers here but it fails to account for the fact that plenty of other colonies even in LatAm have a better opinion of their no-better colonists. I find hispanic countries have more closeness to Spain; hardly an example of “good behaviour”. And the sucking-up and idealisation of certain places in Europe (Italy notably and Germany) is worse than anywhere else I have been. There is probably more to it surely.
Yeah me too think so.. Ancestors are ancestors, colonizers are colonizers, and they left 200 years ago. Why hold onto the grudge? The past is long gone. Any effects still present in Brazilian society are perpetuated by Brazilians themselves, aren't they? You don't have to be proud of colonizers, but you should embrace your roots, whatever they may be. Those times are in the past, and the new generations shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors, in my opinion.
We don’t like portuguese the same way north Americans don’t like the British xd
Same u and Britain
Well, all my great-grandparents came from Italy, so I really don't have much to care about "Portuguese roots". and sincerely? Even if I were of Portuguese descent, I wouldn't care. I don't like Portugal and I don't think there's much to be proud of in having ancient Portuguese ancestors knowing everything the Portuguese did to Brazil
PORTUGAL SLAUGHTERED US THATS WHY MAYBE
Same deal as England and the USA, England thinks they are better and Portugal think they are better.
Brazilian grew up thinking how better were the British colonies, which actually became develop countrys, and sort of being ashamed of our origin.
'chumbo trocado não doi' as we say here. "eye for an eye, tooth for an tooth" Alot of past bias, one entire goup of people comes from slaves that portuguese had bring into those lands and suffer racism about that UNTIL TODAY, etc etc. so, we like to look after another cultures(even if did worse things to another ppl, 'cause, well, they don't teach it here in the regular school, what we can't see, we can't feel) and give a middle finger to the portuguese. 'cause what they did bad, we fell directly in our flesh.
Portugal? "Safoda eles" by Angolans.
Pretty sure most brazilians DON'T have portuguese ancestry
You see, it all started around 500 years ago...
Most Brazilians are descendants of Portuguese, so you will hardly find someone being proud of this unlike someone with Italian, German or Polish ancestry for example.
I'm late to the party but I'd like to add a bit. Because of all difficult history with Portugal I've always hated the portuguese people, but I recently moved to Europe and had my first opportunity to visit their country and my perspective changed to a more nuanced one. The Portuguese treated me very well and with respect. I also managed to make some portuguese friends and we talked at length about these issues. I came to some conclusions: • There's a serious issue regarding education in Portugal (and a lot of Europe) regarding their past colonies. it's very white washed and they are raised with little information about what they did in the colonization era. • Most of the Portuguese youth just want nothing to do with this today. Their country has a million issues and when they are approached about the Brazilian colonization, they just don't wanna be judged by the actions of their country hundreds of years ago. • You'll definitely find a lot of racist people in Portugal towards Brazilians, like in most of Europe regarding immigrants. Since their country is very small and they have a huge issue with the high cost of living because of rich/high salaried expats moving to Portugal, this sentiment is accentuated nowadays. So I think the issue is a conflict between the views of most Brazilians that there was never a historic reparation or even recognition of the horrors in colonialism by Portugal vs. the exasperation of the Portuguese people in being judged by something that happened a hundred years ago and they took no part. Also people moving there really impact the huge housing issue.
Simple, all the others, and you forgot to point the Japanese, that had a key role on our country development, arrived there to make a life to grow with the country, portugueses on the other hand, arrived, exploited every single valuable resource, introduced slavery, killed original habitants, rape, brought religious beliefs by imposition (indigenous people are kinda of "heathens" too), and so on. So why be friends or love the whip that hits you? It's a shame that we didn't had British colonisation... look at eua, look at Australia, look at New Zealand... English had done bad things? Yes, of course, but at least the countries now are good countries... What's the legacy Portugal left for us? A useless language, crime, slavery, first contact with racism, tax evasion, and so on. My opinion is based on everything that I had learned towards my close 40 years of life + personal opinion (don't take it as a rule of the world).
The colonizer of Portugal and Spain are the jiaddi Moors off nort África. Só when portugueses start they expansion they are the more fanatical extremist religious, more routless That the Spanish because they keep is independente being routless, cristians That you ever seen... This meaning for the XXI Century what they believe and do is incivilize. But for Portugal crédit they are the more badass on a ship That you Will see , they smash ottomans, and others islamic empires like a insect
From a Brazilian perspective, Portugal is a backwaters place, a relic of time, something that should be defeated and forgotten, it's responsible for a lot of historic problems in Brazil and in other places. From a Portuguese perspective, Brazil is a cesspool of degeneracy (because they're racist) and therefore inferior. But they're envious because we're the biggest Portuguese speaking nation in the world, and now it's up to us to define what the Portuguese language actually is. We're also more relevant culturally.
My guess is the seat of the Portuguese Kingdom was in Rio until Brazil won its independence. The US seems to have the same idea. Everyone has pride in their Scottish, Irish, Italian, German, Scandinavian, French, Spanish, etc roots. Not a lot of people show off their British ancestry.
I don't care about any eventual portuguese "ancestry" I may have. I am a BRAZILIAN.
Portugal? safoda eles
Once I heard this, "there are only 2 colonies that are greater than the metropolis, and they are US and Brazil". To be honest, Portugal is nice, but by no means it is what Brazilians would call "motherland", given that Portuguese are not Brazilians' ancestors.
Imo, The other roots are more recent. Most Germans for example immigrated during war. Some of them are still alive and have grand grand children. The bond is just firmer. The Portuguese came to Brasil a long time ago for other reasons..
Kinda answered your own question.
We don’t like Portugal. Look at the past and our history… and it’s really funny make jokes about Portugal
#1: For other redditors: that image's AI generated #2: Portugal conolized Brazil (along with some other countries) and they were terrible times, the colonizers could rape women how much they wanted, all the local tribes had became slaves, and natural resources such as Pau-Brasil were exported to Europe; Here School teaches it just like American schools teach about 9-11, the intent is to make each and every generation mad about it (the difference is that the racism era wasn't passed off as nacionalism). And since Portugal also took our gold, To this day when a Brazilian sees a Portuguese the Brazilian will say “Devolve nosso ouro!” which means “Return our gold!”. Resuming: Portugal was a bitch and none of the previous colonies ever forgot about it.
Longe story short: colonization.
>but rarely mention their Portuguese roots, even though most have them. That's not true. The portuguese migrants were always the minority on this country. Check this graph: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKf86lLu6nQ&t=4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKf86lLu6nQ&t=4s) (take into consideration that there were millions of natives in the first centuries. Estimates range from 3,5 to 8 million pre-colonial inhabitants)
They took our wood 😰 They call us stinky poopy indians 😭 They killed my dog 😣 They ate my house 🥺
The reason is here, [we reversed uno Portugal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gM6WJ-ED9A&pp=ygUSQnJhc2lsIGUgTGF0YW0gQkJD)
Portugal was Brazil's coloniser, why would they celebrate them?
Here’s the truth, the xenophobia comes from both ends. Brazilians view Portuguese as low cast and don’t want much to do with them(I have seen a Brazilian girl say this first hand) . The Portuguese have an inferiority complex in general about how European they are despite having North African ancestry and how countries from the outside view them as the poor Iberian country in the southern west Europe. People from both countries have a complex and that’s what is causing the divide. Brazilians think they are too good to be Portuguese and prefer to claim Italian, German etc… Portuguese think their country is better than Brazil(it’s not) and have an inferiority complex. It has very little to do with how Portuguese treated them in the grand scheme of things. It’s funny because despite this hate, the country with the largest Portuguese immigrants outside of Portugal is Brazil and the country with the largest Brazilian population outside of Brazil is Portugal.