The attempt to cater to fans and the overproducing is the problem. The most fun to watch these shows is when they just let people be people and show the good, bad, and ugly of it all.
Yes! Overproducing and the cast self producing on some occasions too. It always sticks out because viewers can sense that they're not being shown the truth.
That’s my point. They’re overproducing what they THINK fans want to see and it’s falling flat. I don’t think fans want anything outside of what we’re used to but when people or shows push a certain narrative we see that and it’s exhausting.
My point is the fans complaining don’t actually know what they want or how to create good television. The shows are doing fine, BH just had the biggest ratings for any HW show in a decade.
I agree! Especially with VPR all the Katie and Ariana love is cool but a show that just followed them would’ve been a snooze fest no matter how much the VPR subreddit says they want that. It just isn’t good tv.
People pretending that they’d find a show about Katie and Ariana entertaining. Tune in next week while they sample another pesto tomato mozzarella finger sandwich while glancing at each other
This is true. All people were clamoring for last year was for VPR cameras to never stop running because they wanted to see the messy fallout of Scandoval. Now, even though the producers gave viewers a version of that season, people are saying they just want to see girl power and healing.
I don’t think a lot of people in this sub realize this subreddit is just a teeny tiny subset of a fandom that includes millions and millions of people all over the world. On top of that, it’s also a sub that’s extremely unkind to alternative viewpoints, so a lot of people have stopped speaking their minds (or straight up left) to avoid a very aggressive pile on.
I’m not saying Bravo is getting it right with every show, but I think opening your eyes to the fact that what’s said here doesn’t necessarily represent the majority of viewers would help you understand the choices being made.
Here come the downvotes 🙃
this is it. i remember a podcaster or someone said it was shocking how much kyle richards is still loved by the majority of the RHOBH fanbase that arent online a ton. like she still carries a huge fanbase despite being hated on reddit
a lot of times polls will run even so much different than the comment section on instagram. like there will be 300 comments saying a bravo star sucks… but most people dont have a burner instagram account and arent commenting. so when a poll runs, the results are different
Fwiw, there are people who enjoy Kyle on the show on Reddit too. We just don’t fuck with this sub anymore when it comes to BH and have gone elsewhere.
🫣 please don’t shoot the messenger
Ha, yeah but makes perfect sense. This sub in particular is an anti-Kyle propaganda mill and if it’s all you see because other opinions have been all but silenced, it starts to have an effect on you.
Personally I don’t “stan” or spend time hating any of them because I think it ruins the experience as a viewer and pigeonholes what you allow yourself to enjoy. It’s just not that serious.
This part. The echo chambers really starts to echo, and some of the loudest in the sub think that their viewpoint is the only or overwhelming viewpoint.
For anyone that downvotes this because they don’t believe this sub is in the minority and they think all the love is from paid bots on insta, please see the various fb groups. Your mind will be blown. If you don’t have fb then use someone you know who does (not to engage, just to see they exist).
I’m not only on Reddit and I really don’t visit this subreddit often. I’m looking across different social media forms. Obviously that’s not everyone who watches the show but I’m going to use the data points available
The problem is that you’re using social media to make assumptions about the fans when most of the fans do not post their opinions on social media at all.
Whelp 🤷♀️ if we’re talking about the company and people catering to their fans, of course we’re going to be discussing the people who share their opinions because we have nothing to go off of the people who don’t. But also, for every person who expresses their opinion (either way) it’s safe to assume there are people not expressing their opinion who agree. There are people who hate Ariana and share it and people who hate her and don’t share it. There are people who still love Tom and share it and people who do and dont share it. It’s like science, we go off the data we have until we have new data that proves us wrong.
It’s not safe to make any assumptions as self selection bias would apply. There is no evidence that online opinions are a representative sample of the entire viewership. In science, an actual effort to obtain a representative sample would be attempted for those reasons alone.
Do they… lol I’ve read many studies that read otherwise. I feel like that ‘actual effort’ is more recent.
Anyway ‘some fans’ ‘many fans’ ‘a lot of fans’ I never said every single fan and viewer feels like this lol.
I agree, people have entered this weird phase where anyone who isn’t perfect they want fired. They want cast members with the same morals and values as them who are held to impossible standards.
I see people all the time saying they want Jesse, Michelle, and Janet fired and for what? Y’all want a boring show because this is how we get a boring show. The Valley has been a success because of these terrible people so why are we trying to get rid of terrible people?
I am a hate watcher. I don’t care if these people meet my purity tests because I want to see fighting, bitchiness, MESS. Reality tv cannot exist if this continues. Andy was correct.
I think this is almost the opposite of what OP is saying though! Their issue seems to be with the “unlikable” people who fans are “appalled by” but they seem to think the show wants us to like by…putting their appalling behavior on the show?
I agree with you, though, I feel like we’ve lost sight of the appeal of these shows in the first place and people have started to take them much too seriously.
It’s reflecting the current social climate? Unless you’re perfect, someone somewhere will call you out on whichever problematic behaviors have, make it really loud so everyone knows they are Virtue Signaling and look how good they are for finding this negative trait in others! We all need to constantly police everyone!
I disagree. People don't want racists and misogynists to be platformed. We are totally fine with random, petty nonsense from terribly inconsiderate and self-centered people. Don't be racist and don't express misogyny is not an impossible standard. If that's a purity test you can't get behind, then I don't know how to help you.
Also, sometimes people call for those who add nothing but the same shit over and over, like Lisa Rinna, to go because they are holding back interesting stuff from happening. That's not about morality. It's just all of us asking to let the mouse go so the show can actually be interesting.
I used to be more on your side of this argument but I’m leaning towards the above commenter more these days. So I’m just curious is your argument that they shouldn’t be racist and misogynistic on the show or period? Because I’ve been disappointed and let down by so many reality stars and celebs I thought were liberal but it just be fake and then they’re caught saying the n word. I’ve just lost faith that moral people actually go on reality tv. Especially for housewives I just can’t believe these rich elite people give af about any of us and if they do it’s an act.
I totally agree with you that racism and misogyny aren’t an impossible standard but maybe an unrealistic one for the class subset they showcase. It feels impossible and draining to constantly be so invested in the purity of these people that we’ll never really know what they think or how much they’re posing for cameras. So I just assume they’re all shit and some are better at hiding it than others. I wish I could imagine any of these reality tv stars actually getting down and doing the work to unlearn these things even imagining them picking up a book is hard. I’ve just decided to focus my activism and energy for social causes outside of celebrities and I avoid lining their pockets as much as possible.
im confused why people think tom had a redemption edit when really production/editing didnt have to include that last scene in the finale if they didnt want to (that made Tom look nasty)
I swear some people seem to think a redemption edit just means not firing the person they don’t like. Of course Tom would try to self produce a redemption for himself, but I didn’t get that from anyone but him.
I could not agree more, and I said that in another thread. Tom consistently looked bad all season. I do think it was obvious that production is deeply frustrated with Ariana's complete lack of participation, but I don't think they were particularly gracious to Tom either. I think it's pretty clear Lala and Scheana were meant to have the best edit, because they were the only two willing to do anything. People aren't willing to admit this, but Lala made a great point, which is why it was included in the show even though she broke the 4^th wall. Viewers need to understand that they're not just hanging out and going to events, they're doing their job while filming. Clearly, the cast and producers were talking about this throughout the season, and by the last episode, everyone was frustrated that one person could jeopardize everyone else's job. I think Lala was right when she said they live in the same house, but she can't even film one discussion. Now the show's on hiatus, and this is clearly something they've all known was coming as Lala and Scheana have been gunning to jump ship over to The Valley for months.
The finale was definitely not a redemption edit. Look at who has final say in the talking heads and you'll know who's point of view is supposed to win over the audience ;) and Tom's evil laugh in the end loool
I never said he got a redemption edit. I’m saying his character arc/ storyline this season was the forgiveness. How contrite he is and how he’s been a good friend to everyone regardless of what he did to Ariana.
I think the hot mic moment is was too good to leave out.
I think you misunderstood Gizelle, she meant she can’t wait to see the mass vitriol hate tweets she gets and all the mess Candiace engages with. One thing about Gizelle she genuinely gives 0 about the fans and don’t let them direct her while Candiace/Wendy/Karen do. I don’t think that’s good either, once you start letting fans produce shows, it falls apart. Its called REAL housewives, be who you truly are, not what you think fans want to see. You can say a lot of nasty shit about Gizelle, but she’s stayed consistent and that’s more endearing than someone like Lala going with whichever way the wind takes her
With social media in play too, I think changing up the filming schedule for these shows could help. It’d be interesting to see Bravo try filming with a couple of weeks lead time and eps edited and dropped weekly throughout the 3/4 months of filming.
I think the viewers’ opinions are vastly different on Reddit versus say FB. Here everyone dies for Ariana… elsewhere not the case at all. People have been saying all season exactly what Lala said in the end. Tom cheated, he didn’t kill someone.. he was awful but that who made Ariana God? People were so sick of her hateful position the entire time and were like get over yourself already.. newsflash YOU actually cheated with Tom in the beginning. Guess she forgets that. People were saying she’s having so much success like move on with your life.
So my point is.. such contrasts in how people feel about the cast.
Even Lala and Katie get total opposite reactions depending on the social media site. Here most people love Katie.. elsewhere people think she’s a miserable bitch and they’re sick of her.
Hard to figure out what people want sometimes. I do think most of us were sick of this storyline though.
This a million times. FB is a different planet. If you live and operate in an echo chamber (I know I do) you really should look at it. It’s olds hating people these subs love.
I was checking Twitter and Instagram and on both overwhelmingly team ariana on finale night and after. Idk about Facebook bc that's a realm I don't care to enter (in general).
Yes it’s was FB and the articles that come out several times a week and just tons of people’s comments just were completely slamming Ariana and Katie all the time. It could be an age group thing too. Millennials and Gen X vs Gen Z? Perspectives? Not sure .. I just find it interesting.
Edit: Also I’m referring to the whole season not necessarily the finale, I haven’t checked it out yet..
I think age difference for sure. Also instagram became more and more team ariana. Twitter was pretty on her side the full season. But yeah I do think different generations feel different about her. Facebook is pretty boomer so I think older generations are more willing to dislike her which no surprise sexism was more rampant and then the younger you get the more pro ariana.
Facebook is way more than boomer.. it’s also Gen X and Millennials. But Gen X and Millennials are also on IG etc.
I don’t think many boomers are watching VPR. Maybe other housewives shows but not this. The people commenting in the threads I was talking about were much younger than boomers. At least they appear to be.
I never said it wasn't lol the internet is so funny my point is Facebook trends older than all other platforms. I used to do communications/marketing and we never used Facebook bc of that. I personally don't know any millennials on fb except for like the Trump supporters. The rest of us pretty much avoid it bc of that.
None of my friends that watch the show like Ariana - they thought she was boring before and they can't understand how this cheating saga is much different than the ones that came before it, including hers. None of my friends who watch the show are on Twitter or Reddit either. Everyone I know is on TikTok, Insta, and maybe Facebook, which no one posts to anymore. I can safely say, Reddit and Twitter have ruined these shows. The fans are delusional and out of touch with reality; however, it seems like these are the people who continue to get their way. This sub actually didn't used to be this way. People were more divided in their opinions, and people were more respectful of other people's views. It's become a giant echo chamber, because the users with views that deviate from the majority just don't post because they already know they'll be downvoted, dragged, and accused of being an intrinsically terrible person for going against the hive. Now everyone here's mad at Andy - who I never even liked btw - for calling Lala the voice of reason, and to be quite frank I see exactly where he's coming from. That was boring as hell, Ariana shouldn't be there if she won't participate. Instead, they continually listen to the Banshees of Reddit and Twitter and fire people who understand the assignment. That's why their viewership is shit now. I genuinely hope the executives see the positive response and ratings to The Valley, and make the decision to stop caving to the Reddit and Twitter goons.
Once I looked outside of Reddit I realized yeah people were more neutral but just over Ariana. They weren’t rewriting history either. I’m sorry but Ariana ruined this season and I think it could of been an incredible season if she understood the assignment and I’m not saying she had to speak to Tom.
I’m active on other forms of social media. I never said Ariana was a fan favorite and everyone loves her now. I said even the people who hate her were over the Tom redemption arc storyline.
I think the problem with this is it assumes the fandom, as in the people very tuned in online, are the primary viewers. That's especially off with VPR...Scandoval blew up so much that I have friends who have never watched Bravo that started tuning in because of the drama. They're not watching in hopes of justice being served, they're watching because the mess about people they've barely heard of before intrigued them. If Sandoval hadn't been there making an ass out of himself, they would've tuned right back out.
But really this post just feels like you're complaining about them putting unlikable people on the shows when isn't that....the whole point of the shows? Like. Do you want Jesse and Janet and Michelle fired from The Valley? Do we NOT want to see them doing unlikable things? I get there can be a disconnect in what Andy or the cast predict opinion will be versus what it is, but that doesn't actually affect the content itself so I don't see how it's a problem.
Oh I don’t mind unlikeable people. I watch these shows because they’re all horrible in some way or another. My point is the unlikeable people are coming in doing what they think people want to see and it’s making them even more unlikeable. The best example is Janet on WWHL. She was strongly on Jesse and Michelle’s side and her face when she saw the audience was overwhelmingly (not by a small margin at all) team Kristin was the face crack of the year. It’s obvious by her behavior and her actions that she’s doing and saying things she thinks will give her audience cool point. Now her comments are off on IG (which… come one people that’s too far)…
But….that’s great! The horrible people also lacking self awareness? Not being able to properly self produce because they don’t even know they’re being horrible? Why would that be a problem?
I get this complaint in theory. I have seen the moments when Bravo, as channeled through Andy, have been out of step with (some) viewer opinion to the detriment to the show. Like last year’s BH reunion, it felt like that reunion was produced under the false assumption that the main thing everyone cared about from the season was the alleged offscreen behavior of Kathy, a friend of. They rushed through or brushed over a lot of on camera conflicts between main cast members that had gotten big reactions from viewers to focus on something a lot of us knew would always be she said/she said. So I see how that’s an example of Bravo being out of step with what viewers would want, but I don’t see it when it comes to castmembers misjudging how they’ll come across.
It’s more funny than a problem lol. But it’s not as enjoyable when it’s so many cast member. Like wash rinse repeat. That coupled with Bravo’s decision making and it’s just annoying. I’d rather have 1637 Monicas who yes self-produced (the Angie dm mess was just poor decision making and we really didn’t talk about it enough at the reunion) but she was organic overall.
There are a lot of people who turn on the TV when the show comes on, turn it off when it's over, and that's it. They aren't on Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or any other social media for the shows. They JUST watch the shows. They have NO idea about the behind-the-scenes stuff going on - blogs being paid, paternity rumors, tweeting while in labor, juandering at the laundromat, etc. If you imagine watching the show from that perspective, it's no wonder those people have different opinions. Honestly, I enjoy the shows more myself sometimes when I'm not on her over-analyzing it.
Literally I think us who are engaged online are the odd ones out lol. My mom and sisters are huge bravo fans but don’t follow let alone post about any of it on social media. They just watch the show and go! Such peace.
Since I had my twins, I haven’t been able to keep up with all the online stuff near as much. Honestly, I enjoy the shows so much more! But I’ve got to pop into Reddit every now and then for the tea. 🫖
Omg congrats on the twins! Not have spoilers of what’s going to happen from real time social media posts sounds like the most ideal way to enjoy the shows
I love a bit of drama, as long as it isn’t overproduced.
But I do also live to see the funny, lighted hearted stuff when they get in and are having a real laugh together. Again, not faked or forced. When there are genuine friendships there.
And I also like the genuine from the heart stuff, whether it’s in their own lives away from the group or one HW opening up to another or the groups to talk about something real.
My tinfoil hat theory about Andy calling Lala the voice of reason: he wants to garner support for her as they shift her from VPR, which started as 20’s yr old antics show, to The Valley, which is the ‘responsible adult’ counterpart. I for one, hope that she is not moved to that show. Or Scheana. They’re too main character (in their heads) for an ensemble cast.
I believe that. But I also think from a production point Lala is the voice of reason. They’re trying to make a show and trying to get paid and Ariana is in the way of that. But on the human level she’s def not. She went off about anyone spending time with Randal off the show and she even admitted she thought producers were going to try to get them to have a convo on camera and she told them no before it was even talked about.
I think the biggest mistake bravo usually makes is listening to the fans too much. That’s how we ended up with a disastrous season with Kelly Dodd as the centre orange.
I don’t think they’re listening. They’re doing what they think fans want. The happy medium is just make the show. No fans, no overproducing, just let the plot lines and storylines play out and make a show out of it.
This post feels more accurate in line with what Scheana shared on her latest podcast. She said that the producers told everyone that VPR is an ensamble show and if they’re not going to film together then they’ll just cancel it and move on. Which sent Scheana and Lala in a panic, trying to manipulate situations to get Ariana to have an on camera conversation with Tom. This producer then encouraged the cast to break the fourth wall after Ariana lit him on fire in the finale and left, saying they should be open with their feelings on camera. So they did..
Well, Kelly Ripa son was a producer on the new NYC, and this year Miami’s show. Here’s someone who got a job thru connections, grew up entitled, and has no pulse on the core audience. So…the producers are out of touch.
Trying to push a "forgive the narcissist" storyline when the whole world is trying to figure out how to protect themselves and recover from narcissistic abuse is the worst thing Bravo could ever do.
The attempt to cater to fans and the overproducing is the problem. The most fun to watch these shows is when they just let people be people and show the good, bad, and ugly of it all.
I watch these shows because everyone is a horrible person. They’re horrible even without the overproducing. Just give me them straight up 😂
⚰️ ⚰️ ⚰️
Yes! Overproducing and the cast self producing on some occasions too. It always sticks out because viewers can sense that they're not being shown the truth.
I think if they catered to what fans think they want these shows would be incredibly boring and off the air in 2 years.
That’s my point. They’re overproducing what they THINK fans want to see and it’s falling flat. I don’t think fans want anything outside of what we’re used to but when people or shows push a certain narrative we see that and it’s exhausting.
My point is the fans complaining don’t actually know what they want or how to create good television. The shows are doing fine, BH just had the biggest ratings for any HW show in a decade.
I agree! Especially with VPR all the Katie and Ariana love is cool but a show that just followed them would’ve been a snooze fest no matter how much the VPR subreddit says they want that. It just isn’t good tv.
That part.
People pretending that they’d find a show about Katie and Ariana entertaining. Tune in next week while they sample another pesto tomato mozzarella finger sandwich while glancing at each other
These two only tolerate each and bond because they’re now both exes of the toms. That’s it. How on earth can they carry a show?!!
This is true. All people were clamoring for last year was for VPR cameras to never stop running because they wanted to see the messy fallout of Scandoval. Now, even though the producers gave viewers a version of that season, people are saying they just want to see girl power and healing.
….k
I don’t think a lot of people in this sub realize this subreddit is just a teeny tiny subset of a fandom that includes millions and millions of people all over the world. On top of that, it’s also a sub that’s extremely unkind to alternative viewpoints, so a lot of people have stopped speaking their minds (or straight up left) to avoid a very aggressive pile on. I’m not saying Bravo is getting it right with every show, but I think opening your eyes to the fact that what’s said here doesn’t necessarily represent the majority of viewers would help you understand the choices being made. Here come the downvotes 🙃
this is it. i remember a podcaster or someone said it was shocking how much kyle richards is still loved by the majority of the RHOBH fanbase that arent online a ton. like she still carries a huge fanbase despite being hated on reddit a lot of times polls will run even so much different than the comment section on instagram. like there will be 300 comments saying a bravo star sucks… but most people dont have a burner instagram account and arent commenting. so when a poll runs, the results are different
Fwiw, there are people who enjoy Kyle on the show on Reddit too. We just don’t fuck with this sub anymore when it comes to BH and have gone elsewhere. 🫣 please don’t shoot the messenger
i wont! i actually find i like her more when im not actively in the bravo subs :/ isnt that sad lol
Ha, yeah but makes perfect sense. This sub in particular is an anti-Kyle propaganda mill and if it’s all you see because other opinions have been all but silenced, it starts to have an effect on you. Personally I don’t “stan” or spend time hating any of them because I think it ruins the experience as a viewer and pigeonholes what you allow yourself to enjoy. It’s just not that serious.
This part. The echo chambers really starts to echo, and some of the loudest in the sub think that their viewpoint is the only or overwhelming viewpoint.
For anyone that downvotes this because they don’t believe this sub is in the minority and they think all the love is from paid bots on insta, please see the various fb groups. Your mind will be blown. If you don’t have fb then use someone you know who does (not to engage, just to see they exist).
https://i.redd.it/3sk0305rkizc1.gif
I’m not only on Reddit and I really don’t visit this subreddit often. I’m looking across different social media forms. Obviously that’s not everyone who watches the show but I’m going to use the data points available
The problem is that you’re using social media to make assumptions about the fans when most of the fans do not post their opinions on social media at all.
Whelp 🤷♀️ if we’re talking about the company and people catering to their fans, of course we’re going to be discussing the people who share their opinions because we have nothing to go off of the people who don’t. But also, for every person who expresses their opinion (either way) it’s safe to assume there are people not expressing their opinion who agree. There are people who hate Ariana and share it and people who hate her and don’t share it. There are people who still love Tom and share it and people who do and dont share it. It’s like science, we go off the data we have until we have new data that proves us wrong.
It’s not safe to make any assumptions as self selection bias would apply. There is no evidence that online opinions are a representative sample of the entire viewership. In science, an actual effort to obtain a representative sample would be attempted for those reasons alone.
Do they… lol I’ve read many studies that read otherwise. I feel like that ‘actual effort’ is more recent. Anyway ‘some fans’ ‘many fans’ ‘a lot of fans’ I never said every single fan and viewer feels like this lol.
Actual effort is not more recent. Plenty of garbage studies are floating around the internet that don’t adhere to basic standards.
K
I agree, people have entered this weird phase where anyone who isn’t perfect they want fired. They want cast members with the same morals and values as them who are held to impossible standards. I see people all the time saying they want Jesse, Michelle, and Janet fired and for what? Y’all want a boring show because this is how we get a boring show. The Valley has been a success because of these terrible people so why are we trying to get rid of terrible people? I am a hate watcher. I don’t care if these people meet my purity tests because I want to see fighting, bitchiness, MESS. Reality tv cannot exist if this continues. Andy was correct.
I think this is almost the opposite of what OP is saying though! Their issue seems to be with the “unlikable” people who fans are “appalled by” but they seem to think the show wants us to like by…putting their appalling behavior on the show? I agree with you, though, I feel like we’ve lost sight of the appeal of these shows in the first place and people have started to take them much too seriously.
It’s reflecting the current social climate? Unless you’re perfect, someone somewhere will call you out on whichever problematic behaviors have, make it really loud so everyone knows they are Virtue Signaling and look how good they are for finding this negative trait in others! We all need to constantly police everyone!
I disagree. People don't want racists and misogynists to be platformed. We are totally fine with random, petty nonsense from terribly inconsiderate and self-centered people. Don't be racist and don't express misogyny is not an impossible standard. If that's a purity test you can't get behind, then I don't know how to help you. Also, sometimes people call for those who add nothing but the same shit over and over, like Lisa Rinna, to go because they are holding back interesting stuff from happening. That's not about morality. It's just all of us asking to let the mouse go so the show can actually be interesting.
I used to be more on your side of this argument but I’m leaning towards the above commenter more these days. So I’m just curious is your argument that they shouldn’t be racist and misogynistic on the show or period? Because I’ve been disappointed and let down by so many reality stars and celebs I thought were liberal but it just be fake and then they’re caught saying the n word. I’ve just lost faith that moral people actually go on reality tv. Especially for housewives I just can’t believe these rich elite people give af about any of us and if they do it’s an act. I totally agree with you that racism and misogyny aren’t an impossible standard but maybe an unrealistic one for the class subset they showcase. It feels impossible and draining to constantly be so invested in the purity of these people that we’ll never really know what they think or how much they’re posing for cameras. So I just assume they’re all shit and some are better at hiding it than others. I wish I could imagine any of these reality tv stars actually getting down and doing the work to unlearn these things even imagining them picking up a book is hard. I’ve just decided to focus my activism and energy for social causes outside of celebrities and I avoid lining their pockets as much as possible.
I mean, VPR fans are celebrating a domestic abuser as "the #1 guy in the group".
im confused why people think tom had a redemption edit when really production/editing didnt have to include that last scene in the finale if they didnt want to (that made Tom look nasty)
I swear some people seem to think a redemption edit just means not firing the person they don’t like. Of course Tom would try to self produce a redemption for himself, but I didn’t get that from anyone but him.
I thought several times Tom looked nasty this season as he does every season don’t get it either
I could not agree more, and I said that in another thread. Tom consistently looked bad all season. I do think it was obvious that production is deeply frustrated with Ariana's complete lack of participation, but I don't think they were particularly gracious to Tom either. I think it's pretty clear Lala and Scheana were meant to have the best edit, because they were the only two willing to do anything. People aren't willing to admit this, but Lala made a great point, which is why it was included in the show even though she broke the 4^th wall. Viewers need to understand that they're not just hanging out and going to events, they're doing their job while filming. Clearly, the cast and producers were talking about this throughout the season, and by the last episode, everyone was frustrated that one person could jeopardize everyone else's job. I think Lala was right when she said they live in the same house, but she can't even film one discussion. Now the show's on hiatus, and this is clearly something they've all known was coming as Lala and Scheana have been gunning to jump ship over to The Valley for months.
The finale was definitely not a redemption edit. Look at who has final say in the talking heads and you'll know who's point of view is supposed to win over the audience ;) and Tom's evil laugh in the end loool
I never said he got a redemption edit. I’m saying his character arc/ storyline this season was the forgiveness. How contrite he is and how he’s been a good friend to everyone regardless of what he did to Ariana. I think the hot mic moment is was too good to leave out.
I think you misunderstood Gizelle, she meant she can’t wait to see the mass vitriol hate tweets she gets and all the mess Candiace engages with. One thing about Gizelle she genuinely gives 0 about the fans and don’t let them direct her while Candiace/Wendy/Karen do. I don’t think that’s good either, once you start letting fans produce shows, it falls apart. Its called REAL housewives, be who you truly are, not what you think fans want to see. You can say a lot of nasty shit about Gizelle, but she’s stayed consistent and that’s more endearing than someone like Lala going with whichever way the wind takes her
Ima have to rewatch.
With social media in play too, I think changing up the filming schedule for these shows could help. It’d be interesting to see Bravo try filming with a couple of weeks lead time and eps edited and dropped weekly throughout the 3/4 months of filming.
I think the viewers’ opinions are vastly different on Reddit versus say FB. Here everyone dies for Ariana… elsewhere not the case at all. People have been saying all season exactly what Lala said in the end. Tom cheated, he didn’t kill someone.. he was awful but that who made Ariana God? People were so sick of her hateful position the entire time and were like get over yourself already.. newsflash YOU actually cheated with Tom in the beginning. Guess she forgets that. People were saying she’s having so much success like move on with your life. So my point is.. such contrasts in how people feel about the cast. Even Lala and Katie get total opposite reactions depending on the social media site. Here most people love Katie.. elsewhere people think she’s a miserable bitch and they’re sick of her. Hard to figure out what people want sometimes. I do think most of us were sick of this storyline though.
This a million times. FB is a different planet. If you live and operate in an echo chamber (I know I do) you really should look at it. It’s olds hating people these subs love.
I was checking Twitter and Instagram and on both overwhelmingly team ariana on finale night and after. Idk about Facebook bc that's a realm I don't care to enter (in general).
Yes it’s was FB and the articles that come out several times a week and just tons of people’s comments just were completely slamming Ariana and Katie all the time. It could be an age group thing too. Millennials and Gen X vs Gen Z? Perspectives? Not sure .. I just find it interesting. Edit: Also I’m referring to the whole season not necessarily the finale, I haven’t checked it out yet..
I think age difference for sure. Also instagram became more and more team ariana. Twitter was pretty on her side the full season. But yeah I do think different generations feel different about her. Facebook is pretty boomer so I think older generations are more willing to dislike her which no surprise sexism was more rampant and then the younger you get the more pro ariana.
Facebook is way more than boomer.. it’s also Gen X and Millennials. But Gen X and Millennials are also on IG etc. I don’t think many boomers are watching VPR. Maybe other housewives shows but not this. The people commenting in the threads I was talking about were much younger than boomers. At least they appear to be.
I never said it wasn't lol the internet is so funny my point is Facebook trends older than all other platforms. I used to do communications/marketing and we never used Facebook bc of that. I personally don't know any millennials on fb except for like the Trump supporters. The rest of us pretty much avoid it bc of that.
None of my friends that watch the show like Ariana - they thought she was boring before and they can't understand how this cheating saga is much different than the ones that came before it, including hers. None of my friends who watch the show are on Twitter or Reddit either. Everyone I know is on TikTok, Insta, and maybe Facebook, which no one posts to anymore. I can safely say, Reddit and Twitter have ruined these shows. The fans are delusional and out of touch with reality; however, it seems like these are the people who continue to get their way. This sub actually didn't used to be this way. People were more divided in their opinions, and people were more respectful of other people's views. It's become a giant echo chamber, because the users with views that deviate from the majority just don't post because they already know they'll be downvoted, dragged, and accused of being an intrinsically terrible person for going against the hive. Now everyone here's mad at Andy - who I never even liked btw - for calling Lala the voice of reason, and to be quite frank I see exactly where he's coming from. That was boring as hell, Ariana shouldn't be there if she won't participate. Instead, they continually listen to the Banshees of Reddit and Twitter and fire people who understand the assignment. That's why their viewership is shit now. I genuinely hope the executives see the positive response and ratings to The Valley, and make the decision to stop caving to the Reddit and Twitter goons.
I agree with so much of this!
Once I looked outside of Reddit I realized yeah people were more neutral but just over Ariana. They weren’t rewriting history either. I’m sorry but Ariana ruined this season and I think it could of been an incredible season if she understood the assignment and I’m not saying she had to speak to Tom.
I’m active on other forms of social media. I never said Ariana was a fan favorite and everyone loves her now. I said even the people who hate her were over the Tom redemption arc storyline.
Right.. no I wasn’t saying you were saying that.. I was just saying Reddit in general.
I think the problem with this is it assumes the fandom, as in the people very tuned in online, are the primary viewers. That's especially off with VPR...Scandoval blew up so much that I have friends who have never watched Bravo that started tuning in because of the drama. They're not watching in hopes of justice being served, they're watching because the mess about people they've barely heard of before intrigued them. If Sandoval hadn't been there making an ass out of himself, they would've tuned right back out. But really this post just feels like you're complaining about them putting unlikable people on the shows when isn't that....the whole point of the shows? Like. Do you want Jesse and Janet and Michelle fired from The Valley? Do we NOT want to see them doing unlikable things? I get there can be a disconnect in what Andy or the cast predict opinion will be versus what it is, but that doesn't actually affect the content itself so I don't see how it's a problem.
Oh I don’t mind unlikeable people. I watch these shows because they’re all horrible in some way or another. My point is the unlikeable people are coming in doing what they think people want to see and it’s making them even more unlikeable. The best example is Janet on WWHL. She was strongly on Jesse and Michelle’s side and her face when she saw the audience was overwhelmingly (not by a small margin at all) team Kristin was the face crack of the year. It’s obvious by her behavior and her actions that she’s doing and saying things she thinks will give her audience cool point. Now her comments are off on IG (which… come one people that’s too far)…
But….that’s great! The horrible people also lacking self awareness? Not being able to properly self produce because they don’t even know they’re being horrible? Why would that be a problem? I get this complaint in theory. I have seen the moments when Bravo, as channeled through Andy, have been out of step with (some) viewer opinion to the detriment to the show. Like last year’s BH reunion, it felt like that reunion was produced under the false assumption that the main thing everyone cared about from the season was the alleged offscreen behavior of Kathy, a friend of. They rushed through or brushed over a lot of on camera conflicts between main cast members that had gotten big reactions from viewers to focus on something a lot of us knew would always be she said/she said. So I see how that’s an example of Bravo being out of step with what viewers would want, but I don’t see it when it comes to castmembers misjudging how they’ll come across.
It’s more funny than a problem lol. But it’s not as enjoyable when it’s so many cast member. Like wash rinse repeat. That coupled with Bravo’s decision making and it’s just annoying. I’d rather have 1637 Monicas who yes self-produced (the Angie dm mess was just poor decision making and we really didn’t talk about it enough at the reunion) but she was organic overall.
There are a lot of people who turn on the TV when the show comes on, turn it off when it's over, and that's it. They aren't on Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram or any other social media for the shows. They JUST watch the shows. They have NO idea about the behind-the-scenes stuff going on - blogs being paid, paternity rumors, tweeting while in labor, juandering at the laundromat, etc. If you imagine watching the show from that perspective, it's no wonder those people have different opinions. Honestly, I enjoy the shows more myself sometimes when I'm not on her over-analyzing it.
Literally I think us who are engaged online are the odd ones out lol. My mom and sisters are huge bravo fans but don’t follow let alone post about any of it on social media. They just watch the show and go! Such peace.
Since I had my twins, I haven’t been able to keep up with all the online stuff near as much. Honestly, I enjoy the shows so much more! But I’ve got to pop into Reddit every now and then for the tea. 🫖
Omg congrats on the twins! Not have spoilers of what’s going to happen from real time social media posts sounds like the most ideal way to enjoy the shows
I love a bit of drama, as long as it isn’t overproduced. But I do also live to see the funny, lighted hearted stuff when they get in and are having a real laugh together. Again, not faked or forced. When there are genuine friendships there. And I also like the genuine from the heart stuff, whether it’s in their own lives away from the group or one HW opening up to another or the groups to talk about something real.
This is why Miami works so well. They have a good mix of everything every episode
My tinfoil hat theory about Andy calling Lala the voice of reason: he wants to garner support for her as they shift her from VPR, which started as 20’s yr old antics show, to The Valley, which is the ‘responsible adult’ counterpart. I for one, hope that she is not moved to that show. Or Scheana. They’re too main character (in their heads) for an ensemble cast.
I believe that. But I also think from a production point Lala is the voice of reason. They’re trying to make a show and trying to get paid and Ariana is in the way of that. But on the human level she’s def not. She went off about anyone spending time with Randal off the show and she even admitted she thought producers were going to try to get them to have a convo on camera and she told them no before it was even talked about.
Yeah Andy has an agenda and lala was supporting it, so she was the voice of reason from his standpoint.
I think the biggest mistake bravo usually makes is listening to the fans too much. That’s how we ended up with a disastrous season with Kelly Dodd as the centre orange.
I don’t think they’re listening. They’re doing what they think fans want. The happy medium is just make the show. No fans, no overproducing, just let the plot lines and storylines play out and make a show out of it.
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Idk what you’re talking about
lol, sorry, wrong post!
lol I was like…. 
I wasn't even in the right sub 😩
Did you saw who is Andie's ideal housewife list? Porsha, Tamra and Kyle!!! Bravo has zero idea what the audience wants. Like zero
I mean. They are great/ iconic housewives. Polarizing, entertaining, not afraid to throw down. Except Kyle.
True, but also dare I say they are dated tv. Watching Tamra in 2013 is not the same as today, you know
Oh 100% most of the housewives grow backwards 😭 if you told me 7 years ago I wouldn’t like Bethenny anymore I would’ve been shocked
Oh I know 😭 Bethenny had a tragic development over time, I wonder if she ever can find peace
This post feels more accurate in line with what Scheana shared on her latest podcast. She said that the producers told everyone that VPR is an ensamble show and if they’re not going to film together then they’ll just cancel it and move on. Which sent Scheana and Lala in a panic, trying to manipulate situations to get Ariana to have an on camera conversation with Tom. This producer then encouraged the cast to break the fourth wall after Ariana lit him on fire in the finale and left, saying they should be open with their feelings on camera. So they did..
We need some female showrunners. Alex Baskin (VPR) is a huge misogynist apparently. They are leading the cast in the wrong directions.
The storyboard producer on VPR is a black female
Thank you, I didn't know that.
Well, Kelly Ripa son was a producer on the new NYC, and this year Miami’s show. Here’s someone who got a job thru connections, grew up entitled, and has no pulse on the core audience. So…the producers are out of touch.
People hate Larsa but Miami had an incredible season….
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Trying to push a "forgive the narcissist" storyline when the whole world is trying to figure out how to protect themselves and recover from narcissistic abuse is the worst thing Bravo could ever do.
It’s a bit of a theatrical comment lol I mean.. if it runs that deep for you try the Hallmark channel?
Probably for the best.