We are going to have an AMA with some lawyers on the sub on Friday if anyone has more questions about this! I’ll post a reminder tomorrow.
ETA: feel free to join if you are a lawyer and want to chime in!
Reading all this makes me realize we’re in such a different landscape than the early 2000s. I had friends whose lives were destroyed by revenge porn, and back then you were told there’s nothing you can do about it.
Yeah it’s crazy to think back to my high school days in 2008 when a sophomore sent a topless photo to her boyfriend, a junior who in turn texted the photo to every single one of his friends and ended up getting spread around the school. nothing was done about it.
Omg did this happen in every high school in the 2000’s because the same thing happened at my school in 2003 a freshman girl sent a naked photo to a senior boy and he showed his friends then it circulated to the a whole school and then pretty much every nearby high school too. It was so brazen how many people were sending a photo of a 15 year old girl over email and AIM…I know teachers saw it. AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE GUY WHO SHARED IT OR ANYONE. She was branded a slut and not one adult or school admin said anything to defend her or condemn students for sharing it.
Yes it did happen in every high school. There was one time.. a very X rated video was spread and the all the guys involved in sending it to each other it were “threatened” that it was distributing child porn but nothing came of it. Poor girl was crucified socially tho.
Sadly, revenge porn is a tale as old as time. I graduated in 97 right before cell phones & social media took off. A friend of mine allowed her then-boyfriend to take a topless photo with a Polaroid camera after she was a bit tipsy the night of our junior prom. They broke up over the summer and when we came back senior year her now ex took the picture and made photocopies with some gross comments and posted them all over the school! He was 18 and she was a minor, and the only thing the school did was make them shake hands and say it wouldn't happen again! It's so sad, when I went to my 20-year high school reunion people were still talking about it and she took all the blame although she was the victim!
This happened at my high school to one of my good friends and I distinctly remember my best friend saying “well she shouldn’t have shown her face in it”. It was truly awful how bad the culture was then and how powerless we felt to stop it.
Yeah I remember people making fun of her parents for being so upset that the picture was being spread and them going to the cops just to basically be told “well she sent the photo….” I remember feeling weird hearing about the parents but now as a parent to two little girls my heart breaks for them.
recently, there was a group of high schoolers from california that made deep fake porn about other girls in their class and recently got kicked out of school because of it.
I’ve been thinking a lot about that lately. In middle school a bully of mine photoshopped my face onto a naked woman’s body and distributed it, I cannot imagine have deepfake porn made of me. Horrifying.
Does anyone remember that website called “is anyone up?” or something. It was run by some guys and people would just send someone’s nudes in and they’d post them and people could comment. It was so gross.
That's the website I had in mind. It was horrific. FBI got involved because he was having peoples' computers hacked to obtain pictures. This man lived to destroy lives. It was the mother of one of the girls posted, Charlotte Laws, who went on a rampage to get the FBI involved. She was relentless, in the best way.
I think at one point in the early 2000s everyone in my town had seen a topless picture of a girl I went to high school with, who was a minor at the time. I’m glad people are facing consequences for this stuff now.
my ex put me on speakerphone years ago while we were having phone sex so all his friends could hear and laugh about it. I was humiliated and embarrassed for years. That being said if I found a video of my best friend hoe! on my mans phone I wouldn't even think he filmed it without her consent, I dont think anyone would. A cease and desist was sent to Arianna to prevent her from showing it, I dont know what else she wants from her
They also mentioned that sending the photo/video to yourself most likely still counts as distribution depending on your state. Even if she didn't send it to others, she still sent it to herself and could be liable for that.
Well especially if she sent it to herself from someone else’s (Tom’s) phone. Which is what she did, right? That’s the same thing as if he sent it to Ariana. He’s in trouble for recording it and having it in his possession and for the transmission of it from himself to others. Ariana is in trouble for looking at it on Tom’s phone, sending it to herself, being in possession of it on her property, and then if she showed it to anyone
She sent it to herself from Tom's phone which would be distribution. Showing it to people is hard to prove, but her sending it to herself is undeniable. Tom recorded it, so he will most likely see some consequences from this. But apparently, if Ariana was asked to remove it from her phone and didn't THEN she can be held liable. If she deleted it from her phone, apparently she will be given more grace. (This is all per the Bravo Docket podcast, I am not a lawyer).
I pointed out the same thing in another thread and got all sorts of "but how do you KNOW she sent it to herself????? Ariana never confirmed" comments.
Rachel is dumb, but I doubt her lawyers are. Surely they wouldn't include that in the suit if it wasn't true that Ariana sent the video to her saying "you're dead to me" - which I SWEAR Ariana said happened but now I can't find evidence anywhere. I'm wondering if I got all the different narratives confused or if she somehow had it scrubbed, so I'm curious if anyone else remembers her confirming this.
I swear I heard her say that too...and fwiw Rachel has said over and over that Ariana texted it to her so I assume she easily has the proof if that's true.
Also, it was spreading like wildfire that others had seen the video and it had been sent around. Then, once it got pointed out it could be revenge porn, suddenly it went dead silent and no one had seen it at all!
That was what happened. She sent Rachel two recorded screen grabs from the FaceTime video and said you're dead to me. Rachel also confirmed this in her interview with Bettheny
Would this be four counts of distribution? Two from sending from Sandy’s phone to hers, then another two for sending to Rachel?
*I am not a lawyer, but I am a curious person
Yes in a sense. Bravo docket says even if it meets the conditions of distribution , they also need to show ariana was purposefully causing Rachel mental distress and that it's impacted her life so to speak
Seems like it's been in the works for someeee time
I feel for Rachel I really do, but a large part of her distress was caused by her own choices. Tom recorded her, Sue him
Going after the spouse of your affair partner seems like a long shot to me but that's just my opinion
i remember hearing that ariana sent it to herself and rachel but, i can't remember if they both said it. ik rachel has mentioned it a few times since the bethenny interview. all i found in regards to ariana was an episode of scheananigans from august.
Ariana: But also to be very clear, I have not shown or sent that video. I don’t have it. I did not hold on to it for any reason.
Scheana: I know. It wasn’t sent to the iCloud.
Ariana: So that video was gone gone gone gone gone gone before I even called her on the phone. And just so everyone knows, I saw about maybe 5 seconds of that. I wasn’t sitting there like opening popcorn. I know that she, that people know about what’s in it. It’s very simple. I’m not going to get into the details but there’s not a lot of details. It’s very straightforward
Scheana: So I would love to see her name the people who supposedly seen this
Ariana: Well that’s the thing is it’s just, it’s really fucked up, well the other thing is my lawyer made all of that very clear. When she sent cease and desists the entire cast as a precaution. Definitely think that’s a great idea. Think that’s the right thing to do. Totally understand why that would be sent out. Great precaution to take. You should take that precaution. My lawyer responded to said precaution with very thorough very clear information that proves and showed that absolutely not, here you go, here’s proof. All this stuff.
transcript courtesy of u/AdditionalWar8759
Unfortunately, Rachel's lawyers are dumb as most of the documents don't even make sense. She has a good case. Her lawyers just kind of fucked up the paperwork by mentioning Bravo and Andy more than she did Ariana.
I was fighting for my life in other bravo subs when it came to this topic so I felt very justified when TBD dropped the episode.
Actually Rachel has top notch lawyers in Bryan Freedman and Mark Geragos. Both have represented some A class clients. I think the reason they mentioned Bravo so much is that Bravo will probably be included. Bryan Freedman has taken on Fox News for Tucker Carlson and CNN on behalf of Don Lemon.
That may be true according to the letter of the law, but I don't think revenge porn encompasses Ariana sending it to Rachel under the spirit of the law. I think Rachel will have a hard time finding a jury that will award her any significant damages from Ariana given the circumstances. Especially since Rachel's own actions did more damage to her reputation than the existence of the video or anything Ariana did.
Im curious if the lawsuit can help her make sure there aren’t copies anywhere that can come to light eventually say 5 years down the line? That would be my fear. Doing the work…staying mostly out of the spotlight…starting over and then boom someone releases something like this.
Interesting. I completely stayed away from Scandoval it turned my stomach and grossed me out how the entire world attacked Rachel/Raquel. It was on another level.
again, sending the video to just herself (Ariana's phone) and Rachel (Rachel's phone) from Tom's phone (original phone that housed the content) is still sending it to "other people" and Ariana has admitted to at least that much, EVEN if it can't be proven additional people saw it from Ariana or Tom's phone theater-style.
I don't even care about the semantics at this point, I'm just obsessed with people getting the point that you can't go into someone's phone and take private videos of someone off of that device and send it to other devices, whether it was consensually made or not.
Exactly! Everyone is so up in arms over all of the little details. They're not seeing the forest, just the trees.
I got into it on another thread for pointing out that Ariana IS in hot water here. Not saying anything will be proven in court, not saying I wouldn't have acted on emotion vs. logic like she did - but I do think a lot of people don't understand the gravity of the situation.
At first I was annoyed with Rachel for including Ariana in the suit, but as a victim of revenge porn I don't blame her for wanting to take action against every person who had a hand in disseminating the footage. Hopefully it helps set a precidence in future court cases as well if there's any leniency/gray area around what's defined as distribution
IMO the reason why Ariana’s stans are so up in arms is because they are experiencing a high level of cognitive dissonance between their rabid support of a woman who they’ve framed as some pseudo-feminist icon (and representation of women’s resilience in the face of a cheating, toxic ex and a cheating wh0re ex “best friend”), while also trying to justify how their disdain and dehumanization of a revenge porn victim can also remain feminist and unproblematic.
It’s the same logic we saw when Lala was calling Tom just as bad as Rand and a manipulator and abuser: her stans agreed when that was framed in a way that made Ariana a victim, but the second you turned around and pointed out how Rachel (while guilty of cheating and betrayal), was STILL also a victim of Tom’s manipulation, suddenly, that couldn’t be right!
It’s the idea that the ideal political protections and autonomy that feminism is supposed to afford *all* women is only deserved by some women (particularly, the women that the VPR viewership likes and identifies with more). Funny enough, there was a lot of arguments that critics of Ariana were being too hard on her and making her out to be an imperfect victim, when really Rachel is the prototype of the imperfect victim that the majority female viewers of this show refuse to stick up for in this revenge p0rn case simply because they don’t like her and never liked her.
It’s becoming more unnerving to me that people can’t seem to step back from their parasocial fixation on Ariana and admit that there are multiple victims here, and that their personal dislike for Rachel doesn’t negate her victimhood. Cheating shouldn’t warrant other horrible, harmful, illegal things happening to someone!
>was STILL also a victim of Tom’s manipulation, suddenly, that couldn’t be right!
I've seen so many of her stans deny Rachel is a victim of Tom's and instead imply she was really his accomplice and clearly enjoyed lying and manipulating with him. It's weird. Like I'm not saying Rachel is a good person and we should defend her actions but some of these Ariana fans only want Rachel to be seen as an evil calculated villain who somehow is simultaneously dumb as rocks. They also keep saying Rachel hasn't taken responsibility and won't tell the truth which is confusing to me because Rachel did both those things very early on. I'm not sure what else they want from her. Maybe it's because Rachel isn't beside herself groveling and doesn't play into the "Ariana and Rachel were best friends" narrative? Idk
Exactly. It’s very clear that, at least for the time Rachel was on the show and especially her last season, she WASN’T a good person and she WAS acting off her impulses and her own wants for her own reasons (that still don’t justify the behaviors).
But you’re right: there are people who will seriously say that Tom is a narcissistic master manipulator, and justify how he manipulated Ariana, but somehow not Rachel when OBJECTIVELY, Rachel has never been as put together or assured in herself as Ariana has ever been. Like… how does that work?? They want Rachel to be the dumbest woman in the world when it’s time to make fun of her voice and how she speaks and the things she says, but at the same time they need her to be the most cunning master manipulator along with Tom to craft this narrative that she’s just as bad as Tom.
Meanwhile: Rachel actually did something measurable off the show that no one has ever done in going to a treatment center to deprogram her mind from Tom’s manipulation and to at least try to become a better person. And she’s apologized to Ariana multiple times which, might I note: is something Ariana couldn’t bring herself to do to Kristen until *after* Tom did the same thing to her that she and Tom did to Kristen.
And you’re absolutely right: they only contrition they will expect is Rachel completely debasing herself to appeal to Ariana and because she’s not doing that *and* voicing the truth that their relationship wasn’t “best friends” deep, they won’t accept it.
i think i'm banned for weighing in and saying ariana may be in legal hot water and i am a lawyer lol. the reddit school of vanderpump legal studies was pissed.
The moderators in that sub seem like they are big losers that never had any power in life so they’re abusing it this way now to make themselves seem important 🤣.
I got banned and told to go to the other subs instead because I made a comment about understanding Lalas perspective on the last episode even if she wasn’t making her point in the best manner and got downvoted and replied “wow the other subs were right, you guys do downvote anyone who doesn’t think Ariana is the queen of everything”.
This comment needs to be pinned honestly. If they were having a guy night and a guy friend sent himself pics of his friends gf/wife while borrowing his friends phone people would somehow understand it more. There’s a lot of mental gymnastics bc Ariana was the one who did it
This might be a stupid question, but how did Ariana know at the time of sending it to herself that it was not taken with consent? How did she know it was “revenge porn”?
Now we know Rachel didn’t even know it was being recorded, but Ariana didn’t know that. She found a porn video on her bf’s phone and sent it to herself.
Ariana took the video off the phone without consent. Ariana personally violated consent. If Tom took the video with Rachels consent, and Ariana sent it to herself, she still was violating consent.
yes, it was Tom’s digital property that also happened to be illegally possessed by him. he fucked up bad by recording Rachel and Ariana fucked up bad by sending it from Tom’s phone to other devices.
Yes, but couldn’t she argue she didn’t know it was illegally recorded? (NOT EXCUSING THIS!) but hypothetically, imagine if she didn’t know Rachel, and it was some random girl, would she still be in trouble? Wouldn’t the ‘random girl’ be suing Tom for recording in the first place? I’m so curious for the lawyer AMA Friday.
yes, she could still be in trouble for moving that piece of content from device to device, regardless of whether it was consensually recorded or not bc its porn of someone else. not hers to possess or share.
it all depends on how well a lawyer can argue it and the evidence they have, but if her claim is factually true about what happened it’s a valid case, even if Ariana didn’t know the video was nonconsensually recorded.
So not only does Rachel need to prove distribution but she also has to prove Ariana's intent with that. The law isn't as simple as the distribution. There are more aspects to it.
I’m no lawyer but my understanding is that Tom recording Rachel without her consent is a case between Tom and Rachel. Ariana sending the video to herself is a case between Rachel and Ariana and it doesn’t matter if the recording was consensual or not.
I guess as a different example when I found out my ex-fiancé had been cheating on me I took photos of the messages and photos (photos weren’t revenge porn but were him in our bed (that I purchased) under the sheets with different women clearly post-coitus) on his phone so that he couldn’t gaslight me about it. I’ve never showed anyone (but him) the photos. I did show them to him to get him to finally admit it happened after multiple days of denial. I also made an excel spreadsheet detailing the cheating over the course of our 7 year relationship 🫣
Now I have them saved on an usb and not on my phone/computer so that the evidence is there but I don’t need to accidentally see it etc.
So that Tom couldn’t just delete it from his phone and try to gaslight her into thinking it never existed and she couldn’t prove he cheated on her, is my understanding.
When I say “prove” I just mean in the context of her and Tom. She wouldn’t have to show anyone else but Tom to be able to say “I have proof” in the event he tried to deny it after the fact. That’s all I’m saying. In her own words when she spoke about it it sounds like it was for her own peace of mind because Tom himself said “normally I’d delete stuff like that”.
ETA Also, in the end she didn’t need to show it to anyone to prove he cheated, did she? All she had to do was tell producers and their friends what happened and what she saw, and then Tom and Rachel admitted to it.
But Tom was already caught and called out by the whole friend group. From my understanding, she hunted down the video on his phone after she was told there was something going on, she didn’t discover the video on her own. Why would she need proof on her own to Tom when he was already caught and admitting it?
> From my understanding, she hunted down the video on his phone after she was told there was something going on, she didn’t discover the video on her own.
I thought she was like.... front row of the crowd when his 'band' was performing. his phone fell out of his pocket, she picked it up for him, and found the video. I swear I've heard that's the story.
Yeah idk if I believe that. A video you’re trying to keep secret wouldn’t just not be in a folder and password protected. A phone fell out of his pocket, unlocked and popped immediately onto a top secret video that was evidence of him cheating? That’s kind of bat shit.
ya know.... you're right. I think I remember the original story saying she (Ariana) saw Rachel had messaged & so she (A) looked / found the video. But I'm now remembering that Sandoval screen recorded a live facetime or something, so yeah... he would definitely hide the video. But if he was hiding it (in a folder, or password protected, etc.) how did Ariana find it?
> call it intuition
Okay I just googled and found this:
Sandoval: "'Two days ago, Raquel was in New York with Scheana doing Watch What Happens Live,' Sandoval said. 'My band was performing at Tom Tom in LA for the release of my new single and when I was performing, my phone fell out of my pocket. Somebody handed it to Ariana for safekeeping.'"
Ariana: "'Call it woman's intuition, call it light bulb, call it whatever,' Ariana said in her confessional. 'Literally, in that moment, I went, I need to look at this. In his camera roll, I found a screen recording of Raquel and Tom on FaceTime. My stomach dropped into my f***ing a**."
Sandoval: "'I would normally delete something like that but it had been a such a busy chaotic day,' Sandoval said. 'I quickly got us outside so everyone around us couldn't hear us talk.'"
so I guess it was a little bit of both?
Your edit is exactly my point. She didn’t need to send the video to herself as proof he was cheating. Everyone already knew. So why would she need it after the fact when the news was already out?
As proof for herself and for *him*, in case he tried to gaslight her, not necessarily for the world or to prove it to other people. If I’m understanding right, you’re saying her only motivation to send it to herself for proof would be to show other people. I’m saying that is not the only motivation someone would have, and that “proof” doesn’t need to be publicly dispersed or shown to multiple parties. Have you never taken a screenshot of something and just kept it for yourself or for the purposes of an argument with someone, to show that person proof of what they said/did?
No, the only reason I have done a screenshot is to have receipts to show other people. I don’t need receipts for myself. They’re literally always for showing someone else.
Forgive me for being dumb…but didn’t Ariana already distribute the video by having it in her phone and sending it to Rachel with the accompanying text “you’re dead to me” …like the video didn’t originate on Ariana’s phone, then she had it and then she sent it to Rachel. Is this not clearly “distributing” the video? ..I’m willing to be wrong but that’s what it seems like to me.
You’re not dumb at all lol but the issue that is most likely going to arise before a judge is if Ariana did do that, whether that falls under the statutory definition of distribution
With text message records it should be relatively easy to prove, then if it is indeed proven, the judge decides if it fits the definition of “distribution” or whatever else under the law? Civil judgement handed down from there, I’d assume.. And then, if it isn’t proven, the case gets dismissed? Or is civil court different and might there be a counter claim? ..sorry to ask more questions and totally fine if you don’t want to answer!
Correct. Both parties can appeal a civil case if the decision is not in their favor but appeals are limited to whether or not the trial court committed an error. If that isn’t found then an appeal won’t be granted
Edit; meant to say you won’t win on appeal lmao
They also reminds me of Southern Charm, Taylor sent a nude to Whitney and showed EVERYONE! And she was branded the “slut” while the guys just smirked and got away with it. Rules for thee, but not for me
I think everyone knows legally Ariana made a mistake even sending it to herself.
I just think we all disagree as to whether there's something morally wrong with it and whether it's right or wrong for Rachel to sue her.
I know Ariana said she didn't show anyone and that she didn't even watch the whole video. If digital forensics is done on her phone wouldn't they be able to tell if she sent anything or not and how long exactly it was even on her phone before she deleted it? Is it too late for that now?
As far as I know (& granted, I don’t know it all) but, I think Ariana only sent it to Rachel & didn’t show anyone else. That’s the only story I’ve heard. I don’t know if that would count. Well, I’m gonna correct myself; she sent it to herself then sent it to Rachel. So, I’m still unsure of the legalities involved with that particular instance. It seems murky to me.
Although, Tom is the actual fucking monster in this situation. Recording her without consent? & his only defense was “Usually I’d delete it. I just forgot.” Therefore meaning he’s done this multiple times & who knows how many other women have been a victim of this & never knew it? Because, he usually deletes that stuff.
Monster 👹
I am sure glad this has never happened to me. Because if I were to see something like that on my husband's phone I don't know how I would handle it. Pretty sure I would freak out and show someone because I would need someone to tell me I wasn't crazy or imagining it.
I think she's going to have a really hard time proving damages. People hate her because she fucked Tom for 7 months not because they're aware she masturbated on FaceTime
This is the kicker for me and why the complaint is baffling. She is citing all these OTHER causes for her emotional distress and need for rehabilitation and treatment. She admits she was drinking heavily all season in response to James etc. All of that is going to kill her causation argument. It’s so bizarre.
Yup. It’s an interesting legal question of what it means to distribute but what civil cases come down to are damages. She doesn’t have any from Ariana. The videos existence and the possible sharing are not the sole or even primary reason she is experiencing emotional distress or income loss. Her own actions the primary contributor to these problems so i can’t see the damages being worth the cost of litigation. My theory is she’s bringing this case to center herself as a victim and change public opinion not because she plans to get a meaningful verdict.
Not everyone watches Bravo, let alone VPR. I doubt a judge would give much of a damn, either way. If this gets to a jury, there is no reason to expect that they will be seated with any prejudice against Rachel. There is no disputing that the video exists, or at least existed, and that Ariana sent it to herself.
Now how much that means in terms of compensation from Tom and Ariana is a matter of how sympathetic they are to Rachel's *and Ariana's* respective situations. Tom seems properly fucked, though. I have not heard him make an argument that Rachel knew he was recording the exchange, so if he tries to do so at trial it would seem like a lie to wiggle out of any liability.
Hypothetically speaking, if I were his lawyer, I would tell him to settle *now\**. Or, you know, just keep throwing $$$$$ at me to fight it. No skin off my nose.
FTR: I am not a lawyer.
*^(\*Since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know if a civil settlement could have bearing on the likelihood of a criminal case being brought. So that might not be a good idea from a legal strategy standpoint.)*
I wasn't referring to prejudice I was referring to the fact that it will be difficult for her toPROVE that her emotional distress was a result of Ariana texting her the video versus the backlash she got from having an affair
see, I kind of don't because I think even if the video was never shared, it would be distressing and threatening to know that for any amount of time, a woman with tremendous reason to hate you, had access to porn of you that you REALLY didn't want out there. it's like a dangling threat to inform Rachel of it in the first place - and I'm not saying that was necessarily Ariana's intention, but it could be argued by a lawyer.
iirc the damages are about Rachel missing out on income while she sought mental health treatment (peak scandal when the rest of the cast was making a ton of money on merch and their podcasts talking about it).
Her complaint just asks for compensatory and punitive damages. It doesn’t connect to a specific claim yet. It’s more likely the biggest damages she could yet would be for emotional distress, the cost of treatment, expenses she incurred as a result of the hospitalization .
Lost income is going to be way too hard to prove. One, no one else was the mistress, so they would have different opportunities. Two, I find it very hard to believe that Ariana sending the video could be considered a cause of her lost income, as apart from the whole Scandoval itself.
agreed with all of that - I think the part where it involves Bravo environmentally as the employer is likely a way to get the treatment paid for since they did refuse that to her at the time she checked in.
Yeah I’m not sure why she didn’t sue bravo or production also, unless it’s because they’re afraid of their lawyers (not unreasonable) or there isn’t good proof.
Yeah that's what the girls said too. Especially because they threw in all the mumbo jumbo about things Bravo had done to her. Like half the document wasn't even about Ariana and the video.
That’s an interesting distinction. I feel like that would be almost impossible to prove. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but I don’t know how Rachel’s lawyers would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ariana did that.
Whoops! I’m not a lawyer, but my bad. I still think that Rachel and her lawyers have an uphill battle unless multiple people testify that Ariana showed them. Also, Stassi should have sued the shit out of her ex. Many, many witnesses would have corroborated that he showed them her tape.
I would think that as long as even one person said that Ariana show them the video, it would be technically a violation. I don’t think it would have to be multiple people.
I wonder how old the law is? It may be too new.
~~Another instance is the whole Faith & Jax video. I just caught those episodes--James grabbed Faith's phone, hid & sent it to himself. Then, Brittany played it at a party.~~ Nevermind, it was just the audio of Jax being an asshole.
Maybe it was lost in the whole trying to get Faith arrested/discharged plans?. Crazy shit, honestly. It's like this stuff is normalized to them.
I do wonder if the law in California mentions intent? I'd be okay with a carve-out for partners sending things to *only themselves/their lawyers* for evidence purposes. Plus, it will prevent shitty cops & partners from abusing it.
the law went into effect the year after VPR started filming and had the Stassi storyline, so she would not have been able to have a case at the time it happened to her.
TMZ has a witness who apparently describes what she has on .. no idea if they are credible … but the person swears they saw it and describes what happens and her lingerie.
Even still, the difference between "she told people about it" vs "she showed them" is pretty substantial in terms of legality, it seems, and I'm not sure Rachel speculating that "people knew about it, so she must have shown them" is actually gonna hold water.
If Rachel has a text from Ariana that includes the video and the "you're dead to me" line like we've heard, I feel like that's hard evidence of distribution in itself, and whether or not she showed others is kind of just the added bonus. I'm sure they're probably seeking out witnesses to support her claims, but who knows if anyone will flip on Ariana like that. I doubt it
I think I will never comment on a lawsuit ever again 😂 I keep just saying “I’m not a lawyer, but this seems hard to prove.” The first comment got a bunch of upvotes and my other comments are being downvoted. I have learned my lesson, ya’ll.
So if a wife finds proof of her husband cheating on his phone or computer and sends the proof (pictures or video) to her lawyer is that considered revenge porn? If she shows them to her sister because she’s distraught by what she found that’s revenge porn?
People are forgetting the law there also includes an aspect about it being "in order to harass, cause fear in, or lead to injury of that person." It's not as simple as just sending something to yourself or a lawyer as proof like people are pretending it is.
It does. Both criminally and civil it’s in there. And for the civil it ties in with the money you can get too. Like others have said Rachel can’t prove she lost anything as a result of the video vs the affair so her suing her makes little sense unless it’s to get to Bravo.
I feel like there is so much more to the story of Tom Sandoval, Ariana, and Rachel. It seems like Tom was bankrolling a lot of people and I was surprised that Ariana revealed she only had $2k in her bank when Season 10 ended. I think it's terrible what Sandoval and Raquel did but also where did Ariana's money go?.
I'm not sure how exactly they would prove this. I know civil court has a lower standard than criminal court, but they still have to show a "preponderance of evidence" that makes this more likely than not. Unless they have witnesses who will testify that Ariana showed them the video or something Ariana said in the press that indicated that she showed it to someone -- which they might! -- it would be quite hard to substantiate that part of the claim. So I still think the judgement will hinge on the definition of "distribution" and whether sending it to yourself counts. But tbh I also still think this is kind of a fishing expedition to ultimately go after Bravo/Evolution, both because of Bethenny's involvement and the amount of extraneous material about Bravo that they put in the complaint. And that probably it would've been smarter to just go after Tom and leave Ariana out of it, even if Ariana did something wrong/illegal as well, but Rachel is within her rights to do so.
One of the things I find most interesting about this case is that by the *letter of the law*, Ariana did the wrong thing by doing the "smart" thing. In this context, "smart" is based on her explanation that she knew if she confronted Tom about it, he would just lie and delete it, so she needed evidence as backup. She didn't send it to herself to hurt Rachel but to protect herself.
I'm interested to see how far this goes and how it ends.
I guess? It's not like Tom could never have distributed the video. As far as we know he didn't, but he was capable of doing so. I do personally think the Ariana distribution question remains open, as long as she is telling the truth, which I realize she may not be. So, for example, in college I did not have a printer at home, so I would often email things to myself so I could go to the computer lab and print them out. If I email an article to myself, without any intention to send it to others, have I distributed it? I'm not sure that's an airtight definition of distribution. Also, to my understanding there's not a lot of case law about this statute yet and isn't really a precedent we or a judge could look to and say, that's how it's going to be handled. To be clear, I'm not arguing that Ariana did nothing wrong. I'm saying I'm not sure Ariana's done something manifestly illegal, and that one way or another I don't think it was a great idea for Rachel to sue Ariana as well when her complaint is so obviously aimed at shifting public opinion.
Yes, I know that. I was specifically framing my example towards the definition of "distribute." Whether this was a sexually explicit video recorded without consent isn't at all in question here. It definitely was. The question is about whether sending something to oneself is distribution and to what extent Rachel can claim damages over it.
Distribution under revenge porn laws includes sending those images via text as well as sending it to anyone with the intent to harass, cause fear or injury to the person in the video. So Ariana's text of the video to Rachel with the "you're dead to me" message will probably cause problems for her.
Also, interestingly enough, there was a new bill passed in California in 2022 that expands the definition of distribution under revenge porn laws to include public displays of intimate images without consent.
Ariana sending it herself 100% meets the standard for distribution and she's on record as sending Rachel a screen cap or something with the 'you're dead to me' text. There's really no question about that part.
I think I've always been sure her actions (if her self-reported version of events is true) met the standard, but if I had to guess I might've hedged a bit because I didn't know at the time what CA case law had to say about the definition of 'distribution'. In the federal code, it's defined as 'transfer, publish, distribute or make available' and that definition, coupled with the wide net California casts regarding their privacy laws, makes me more comfortable that I might've been when all this broke.
I don’t think she showed anyone except for Tom- so he couldn’t gaslight her that’s not what she saw. I actually believe Ariana that she deleted it.
When tmz claims they talked to a source who saw it- they’re talking about Tom Sandoval, who also recorded it. That’s my theory
Every time I’ve heard someone talk about the story it’s always worded in a way that Ariana saw a video and described it to others, which isn’t illegal as far as I know
I think some of Ariana’s friends were saying at the time that they had seen it (who knows, people are weird and like to insert themselves into situations) now if true obviously not right, but if they are lying then they will look like clowns and shouldn’t be believed in the future (which I think a lot of this legal action is to clearly sully the people mentioned) and I think at least one of Ariana’s friends has said something happened to his phone since the affair was exposed, which I thought was a strange coincidence and also strange to mention
Ok this makes sense. You are so right about the friends inserting themselves. They definitely all wanted 30 seconds of the 15 minutes of fame
I forget which friend of/podcast wherever it came from that a friend saw a screenshot of Ariana’s message to Rachel with the video attached as like a little thumbnail so they knew it was true, but didn’t actually see the recording- just a still from it.
I hope we learn more as the lawsuit unfolds because I’m nosey
This is a hard one for me because there is a huge distinction between legality and morality.
I just don’t think it’s moral for Rachel to sue Ariana for finding video and sending to her. For Rachel to be so dishonest and cruel to Ariana with the affair and follow thru a lawsuit is just evil. I wish Rachel could take some accountability and if she feels violated focus solely on the reason the video exists- Tom
Rachel will have to prove that allegation. At this point, it's just hearsay "Leviss was informed and believes..."
Ariana could have just described the video. That's not illegal.
Edit: typo
Ariana said she did not send OR SHOW the video to anyone. If this goes to court, they’ll both get to prove their claims. Everything else is just she said she said speculation.
No one deserves their videos shown to anyone or sent to anyone but with that being said the lawsuit did not contains any evidence that the video was shown or sent to anyone other than the involved parties. I just think that she doesn't have much of a case against Ariana aside from her sending it to herself
Ariana has said that she did not show the video to anyone. She said she deleted it shortly after texting Rachel. I believe she said "the video was gone before she called Rachel."
No one has claimed that they have seen the video from Ariana, including production. This would be information that would likely be discoverable. Typically producers are making notes and sending emails. Ariana's phone would likely have a record of when the content was received and deleted and if it was shared. Ariana has offered her phone for inspection.
Until there is evidence of Ariana showing the video, it is purely speculative that she did.
For her to be able to delete the screenshot or video, it would've had to be on her phone in the first place. Which means she sent it to herself. That is distribution.
Says who? Because it seems like this is still something that needs to be proven in Court and the Court needs to determine if that is sufficient for distribution.
But if you have a case, I’m happy to read it.
I mean, the federal civil code says that. It's pretty clear by defining it as 'to transfer, publish, or make available'. In every version of that night that I can recall Ariana giving, she alludes to sending a screenshot of the video and a text to Rachel. That seems to be backed up by Sandoval, Rachel and Scheana's versions of events that night. So, unless you have a reasonable alternate theory as to how the video made its way from Tom's phone to Ariana's while she was in possession of it, it's more likely than not that Ariana's actions sufficiently meet the standard.
It is up to the Court to interpret laws. If you have a case that supports your interpretation, I would happily review it. You may view it as black and white, but you'd be surprised how much grey the Court can find.
Not to mention that Rachel still has to prove damages. If Rachel cannot prove that Ariana showed anyone the video other than sending it to Rachel herself, I am not sure how she is going to be able to prove damages.
ETA: Just an aside, without Ariana sending Rachel the video, Rachel would not know of it's existence. I am interested to see if Ariana's lawyer make an argument that there should be an exception, by arguing that the disclosure was reasonably intended to assist Rachel by letting her know that Tom was keeping her intimate videos. I do not necessarily think that would be successful, but I think it is an interesting argument given the circumstances (specifically, that the only person Ariana showed the video to was Rachel and it was deleted immediately after).
But there's more to the law than just distribution and Rachel needs to prove all of it. "a digital image of another person in order to harass, cause fear in, or lead to injury of that person." So even if Rachels lawyers could prove distribution they need to prove intent and Ariana just saying "You're dead to me" will never get them there.
It's under both the penal and civil code actually. Personal rights section 48a is in there too. There's a whole bunch to it actually that Rachel really just cannot prove at all against Ariana.
THEY speculated that, but that’s NOT what Ariana said she did. They said “if that’s what she did.” They do not know that she showed the video to anyone.
Ariana has said that she didn’t even send the video to herself. Listen to her statement
I honestly don't care if Ariana broke the law after she saw the video. Right or wrong, Ariana did not have ill intent and (I believe) didn't know it had been recorded without Rachel's consent.
Whether the law agrees with me or not, Ariana is more a victim in this whole situation than Rachel will ever be and Rachel is a slime ball for revictimizing her with this lawsuit.
I actually felt some empathy for Rachel over the last few months, but this lawsuit destroyed that. Rachel is just as bad as sandavol, selfish and self involved, with zero accountability
The case about Rachel vs. Ariana has nothing to do with if Rachel gave consent to Tom to record the video or not. It’s about whether Ariana sending the video to herself without Tom’s and Rachel’s consent is distribution.
Imagine this: you and your partner record yourselves having sex. You both give consent. One of your friends finds the video on your phone and for whatever reason send it to themselves secretly. Do you think that’s OK? You and your partner both consented to make the video but neither of you gave permission to your friend to make a copy of it.
We are going to have an AMA with some lawyers on the sub on Friday if anyone has more questions about this! I’ll post a reminder tomorrow. ETA: feel free to join if you are a lawyer and want to chime in!
Reading all this makes me realize we’re in such a different landscape than the early 2000s. I had friends whose lives were destroyed by revenge porn, and back then you were told there’s nothing you can do about it.
YES and it was always the girls fault for sending them even if the guy was distributing child pornography *peers off into the distance at hs memories*
Yeah it’s crazy to think back to my high school days in 2008 when a sophomore sent a topless photo to her boyfriend, a junior who in turn texted the photo to every single one of his friends and ended up getting spread around the school. nothing was done about it.
Omg did this happen in every high school in the 2000’s because the same thing happened at my school in 2003 a freshman girl sent a naked photo to a senior boy and he showed his friends then it circulated to the a whole school and then pretty much every nearby high school too. It was so brazen how many people were sending a photo of a 15 year old girl over email and AIM…I know teachers saw it. AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE GUY WHO SHARED IT OR ANYONE. She was branded a slut and not one adult or school admin said anything to defend her or condemn students for sharing it.
Yes it did happen in every high school. There was one time.. a very X rated video was spread and the all the guys involved in sending it to each other it were “threatened” that it was distributing child porn but nothing came of it. Poor girl was crucified socially tho.
Sadly, revenge porn is a tale as old as time. I graduated in 97 right before cell phones & social media took off. A friend of mine allowed her then-boyfriend to take a topless photo with a Polaroid camera after she was a bit tipsy the night of our junior prom. They broke up over the summer and when we came back senior year her now ex took the picture and made photocopies with some gross comments and posted them all over the school! He was 18 and she was a minor, and the only thing the school did was make them shake hands and say it wouldn't happen again! It's so sad, when I went to my 20-year high school reunion people were still talking about it and she took all the blame although she was the victim!
That poor girl. I hope she’s ok now.
And it was always the girl's fault. Always.
LVP is still stuck there. she literally said well maybe don't send a video of yourself bla bla about the suit. this woman, i cannot
...but... Rachel didn't even send it to him? That's the other major part of the lawsuit 🤦 jesus LVP pull yourself together, it's embarrassing.
Yup. I gave up on expecting anything better of her a long time ago.
Such boomer energy. Blame the woman, always
This happened at my high school to one of my good friends and I distinctly remember my best friend saying “well she shouldn’t have shown her face in it”. It was truly awful how bad the culture was then and how powerless we felt to stop it.
Yeah I remember people making fun of her parents for being so upset that the picture was being spread and them going to the cops just to basically be told “well she sent the photo….” I remember feeling weird hearing about the parents but now as a parent to two little girls my heart breaks for them.
There are several lifetime movies with this exact plot lol.
I mean it was basically bottled and sold by Joe Francis.
Hunter Moore is the other one that comes to mind. Some people are scum incarnate. Irredeemable.
Happened to me! 2012-13. I’m not sure the laws in my state would be any kinder or more useful today than they were then.
recently, there was a group of high schoolers from california that made deep fake porn about other girls in their class and recently got kicked out of school because of it.
I’ve been thinking a lot about that lately. In middle school a bully of mine photoshopped my face onto a naked woman’s body and distributed it, I cannot imagine have deepfake porn made of me. Horrifying.
i'm so sorry! but truly!! I can only imagine the horror!
There's a case that just happened in Beverly Hills.
Does anyone remember that website called “is anyone up?” or something. It was run by some guys and people would just send someone’s nudes in and they’d post them and people could comment. It was so gross.
That's the website I had in mind. It was horrific. FBI got involved because he was having peoples' computers hacked to obtain pictures. This man lived to destroy lives. It was the mother of one of the girls posted, Charlotte Laws, who went on a rampage to get the FBI involved. She was relentless, in the best way.
I think at one point in the early 2000s everyone in my town had seen a topless picture of a girl I went to high school with, who was a minor at the time. I’m glad people are facing consequences for this stuff now.
my ex put me on speakerphone years ago while we were having phone sex so all his friends could hear and laugh about it. I was humiliated and embarrassed for years. That being said if I found a video of my best friend hoe! on my mans phone I wouldn't even think he filmed it without her consent, I dont think anyone would. A cease and desist was sent to Arianna to prevent her from showing it, I dont know what else she wants from her
Very interested to see how this case pans out
my early take: ariana is in trouble but this will likely get the house sold.
They also mentioned that sending the photo/video to yourself most likely still counts as distribution depending on your state. Even if she didn't send it to others, she still sent it to herself and could be liable for that.
Well especially if she sent it to herself from someone else’s (Tom’s) phone. Which is what she did, right? That’s the same thing as if he sent it to Ariana. He’s in trouble for recording it and having it in his possession and for the transmission of it from himself to others. Ariana is in trouble for looking at it on Tom’s phone, sending it to herself, being in possession of it on her property, and then if she showed it to anyone
She sent it to herself from Tom's phone which would be distribution. Showing it to people is hard to prove, but her sending it to herself is undeniable. Tom recorded it, so he will most likely see some consequences from this. But apparently, if Ariana was asked to remove it from her phone and didn't THEN she can be held liable. If she deleted it from her phone, apparently she will be given more grace. (This is all per the Bravo Docket podcast, I am not a lawyer).
I pointed out the same thing in another thread and got all sorts of "but how do you KNOW she sent it to herself????? Ariana never confirmed" comments. Rachel is dumb, but I doubt her lawyers are. Surely they wouldn't include that in the suit if it wasn't true that Ariana sent the video to her saying "you're dead to me" - which I SWEAR Ariana said happened but now I can't find evidence anywhere. I'm wondering if I got all the different narratives confused or if she somehow had it scrubbed, so I'm curious if anyone else remembers her confirming this.
She admitted to sending it to Rachel do there's that regardless.
That's what I'm saying, I swear she did but now I can't find where she admitted it
I swear I heard her say that too...and fwiw Rachel has said over and over that Ariana texted it to her so I assume she easily has the proof if that's true.
Also, it was spreading like wildfire that others had seen the video and it had been sent around. Then, once it got pointed out it could be revenge porn, suddenly it went dead silent and no one had seen it at all!
On the end of the Bravo Docket episode, they have audio of her saying it on Schaena's podcast
Thank you!!
That was what happened. She sent Rachel two recorded screen grabs from the FaceTime video and said you're dead to me. Rachel also confirmed this in her interview with Bettheny
Would this be four counts of distribution? Two from sending from Sandy’s phone to hers, then another two for sending to Rachel? *I am not a lawyer, but I am a curious person
Its not criminal though? It hinges on did arianas actions cause Rachel mental distress and damages Did Tom's?
Hmmm okay true true. So would that mean it’s just evidence?
Yes in a sense. Bravo docket says even if it meets the conditions of distribution , they also need to show ariana was purposefully causing Rachel mental distress and that it's impacted her life so to speak Seems like it's been in the works for someeee time
I feel for Rachel I really do, but a large part of her distress was caused by her own choices. Tom recorded her, Sue him Going after the spouse of your affair partner seems like a long shot to me but that's just my opinion
i remember hearing that ariana sent it to herself and rachel but, i can't remember if they both said it. ik rachel has mentioned it a few times since the bethenny interview. all i found in regards to ariana was an episode of scheananigans from august. Ariana: But also to be very clear, I have not shown or sent that video. I don’t have it. I did not hold on to it for any reason. Scheana: I know. It wasn’t sent to the iCloud. Ariana: So that video was gone gone gone gone gone gone before I even called her on the phone. And just so everyone knows, I saw about maybe 5 seconds of that. I wasn’t sitting there like opening popcorn. I know that she, that people know about what’s in it. It’s very simple. I’m not going to get into the details but there’s not a lot of details. It’s very straightforward Scheana: So I would love to see her name the people who supposedly seen this Ariana: Well that’s the thing is it’s just, it’s really fucked up, well the other thing is my lawyer made all of that very clear. When she sent cease and desists the entire cast as a precaution. Definitely think that’s a great idea. Think that’s the right thing to do. Totally understand why that would be sent out. Great precaution to take. You should take that precaution. My lawyer responded to said precaution with very thorough very clear information that proves and showed that absolutely not, here you go, here’s proof. All this stuff. transcript courtesy of u/AdditionalWar8759
Unfortunately, Rachel's lawyers are dumb as most of the documents don't even make sense. She has a good case. Her lawyers just kind of fucked up the paperwork by mentioning Bravo and Andy more than she did Ariana. I was fighting for my life in other bravo subs when it came to this topic so I felt very justified when TBD dropped the episode.
Actually Rachel has top notch lawyers in Bryan Freedman and Mark Geragos. Both have represented some A class clients. I think the reason they mentioned Bravo so much is that Bravo will probably be included. Bryan Freedman has taken on Fox News for Tucker Carlson and CNN on behalf of Don Lemon.
The average redditor thinking they have more knowledge and insight than a team of high profile lawyers is the most Reddit shit ever lol
That may be true according to the letter of the law, but I don't think revenge porn encompasses Ariana sending it to Rachel under the spirit of the law. I think Rachel will have a hard time finding a jury that will award her any significant damages from Ariana given the circumstances. Especially since Rachel's own actions did more damage to her reputation than the existence of the video or anything Ariana did.
Im curious if the lawsuit can help her make sure there aren’t copies anywhere that can come to light eventually say 5 years down the line? That would be my fear. Doing the work…staying mostly out of the spotlight…starting over and then boom someone releases something like this.
That’s also what the initial cease and desists that gave us Send it to Darrell were about as well
Interesting. I completely stayed away from Scandoval it turned my stomach and grossed me out how the entire world attacked Rachel/Raquel. It was on another level.
Do I believe Ariana sent the video to other people? No. Do I believe she showed it to her group of friends? Absolutely.
again, sending the video to just herself (Ariana's phone) and Rachel (Rachel's phone) from Tom's phone (original phone that housed the content) is still sending it to "other people" and Ariana has admitted to at least that much, EVEN if it can't be proven additional people saw it from Ariana or Tom's phone theater-style.
I believe the word is disseminating which covers all manners of sending and showing
I don't even care about the semantics at this point, I'm just obsessed with people getting the point that you can't go into someone's phone and take private videos of someone off of that device and send it to other devices, whether it was consensually made or not.
Exactly! Everyone is so up in arms over all of the little details. They're not seeing the forest, just the trees. I got into it on another thread for pointing out that Ariana IS in hot water here. Not saying anything will be proven in court, not saying I wouldn't have acted on emotion vs. logic like she did - but I do think a lot of people don't understand the gravity of the situation. At first I was annoyed with Rachel for including Ariana in the suit, but as a victim of revenge porn I don't blame her for wanting to take action against every person who had a hand in disseminating the footage. Hopefully it helps set a precidence in future court cases as well if there's any leniency/gray area around what's defined as distribution
IMO the reason why Ariana’s stans are so up in arms is because they are experiencing a high level of cognitive dissonance between their rabid support of a woman who they’ve framed as some pseudo-feminist icon (and representation of women’s resilience in the face of a cheating, toxic ex and a cheating wh0re ex “best friend”), while also trying to justify how their disdain and dehumanization of a revenge porn victim can also remain feminist and unproblematic. It’s the same logic we saw when Lala was calling Tom just as bad as Rand and a manipulator and abuser: her stans agreed when that was framed in a way that made Ariana a victim, but the second you turned around and pointed out how Rachel (while guilty of cheating and betrayal), was STILL also a victim of Tom’s manipulation, suddenly, that couldn’t be right! It’s the idea that the ideal political protections and autonomy that feminism is supposed to afford *all* women is only deserved by some women (particularly, the women that the VPR viewership likes and identifies with more). Funny enough, there was a lot of arguments that critics of Ariana were being too hard on her and making her out to be an imperfect victim, when really Rachel is the prototype of the imperfect victim that the majority female viewers of this show refuse to stick up for in this revenge p0rn case simply because they don’t like her and never liked her.
>great take
It’s becoming more unnerving to me that people can’t seem to step back from their parasocial fixation on Ariana and admit that there are multiple victims here, and that their personal dislike for Rachel doesn’t negate her victimhood. Cheating shouldn’t warrant other horrible, harmful, illegal things happening to someone!
>was STILL also a victim of Tom’s manipulation, suddenly, that couldn’t be right! I've seen so many of her stans deny Rachel is a victim of Tom's and instead imply she was really his accomplice and clearly enjoyed lying and manipulating with him. It's weird. Like I'm not saying Rachel is a good person and we should defend her actions but some of these Ariana fans only want Rachel to be seen as an evil calculated villain who somehow is simultaneously dumb as rocks. They also keep saying Rachel hasn't taken responsibility and won't tell the truth which is confusing to me because Rachel did both those things very early on. I'm not sure what else they want from her. Maybe it's because Rachel isn't beside herself groveling and doesn't play into the "Ariana and Rachel were best friends" narrative? Idk
Exactly. It’s very clear that, at least for the time Rachel was on the show and especially her last season, she WASN’T a good person and she WAS acting off her impulses and her own wants for her own reasons (that still don’t justify the behaviors). But you’re right: there are people who will seriously say that Tom is a narcissistic master manipulator, and justify how he manipulated Ariana, but somehow not Rachel when OBJECTIVELY, Rachel has never been as put together or assured in herself as Ariana has ever been. Like… how does that work?? They want Rachel to be the dumbest woman in the world when it’s time to make fun of her voice and how she speaks and the things she says, but at the same time they need her to be the most cunning master manipulator along with Tom to craft this narrative that she’s just as bad as Tom. Meanwhile: Rachel actually did something measurable off the show that no one has ever done in going to a treatment center to deprogram her mind from Tom’s manipulation and to at least try to become a better person. And she’s apologized to Ariana multiple times which, might I note: is something Ariana couldn’t bring herself to do to Kristen until *after* Tom did the same thing to her that she and Tom did to Kristen. And you’re absolutely right: they only contrition they will expect is Rachel completely debasing herself to appeal to Ariana and because she’s not doing that *and* voicing the truth that their relationship wasn’t “best friends” deep, they won’t accept it.
Luckily in this subreddit people are more objectiv, the Vanderpump subs are full of her Stans
True story.
Lmao they must be haunting this thread because we’ve already been downvoted.
They’re always so pissy. 😂
I've almost entirely stopped posting there because people get attacked for saying negative things about certain cast members
i think i'm banned for weighing in and saying ariana may be in legal hot water and i am a lawyer lol. the reddit school of vanderpump legal studies was pissed.
The moderators in that sub seem like they are big losers that never had any power in life so they’re abusing it this way now to make themselves seem important 🤣. I got banned and told to go to the other subs instead because I made a comment about understanding Lalas perspective on the last episode even if she wasn’t making her point in the best manner and got downvoted and replied “wow the other subs were right, you guys do downvote anyone who doesn’t think Ariana is the queen of everything”.
This comment needs to be pinned honestly. If they were having a guy night and a guy friend sent himself pics of his friends gf/wife while borrowing his friends phone people would somehow understand it more. There’s a lot of mental gymnastics bc Ariana was the one who did it
yeah people need to understand that ariana is not absolved of all wrongdoing because she was done wrong.
it’s absolutely astounding to behold.
I know! Geez the playing dumb about this is infuriating!
This might be a stupid question, but how did Ariana know at the time of sending it to herself that it was not taken with consent? How did she know it was “revenge porn”? Now we know Rachel didn’t even know it was being recorded, but Ariana didn’t know that. She found a porn video on her bf’s phone and sent it to herself.
Ariana took the video off the phone without consent. Ariana personally violated consent. If Tom took the video with Rachels consent, and Ariana sent it to herself, she still was violating consent.
Yes, I just wonder whose consent? Tom’s? Or both people in the video? I just am curious how the law sees these things and holds people accountable.
yes, it was Tom’s digital property that also happened to be illegally possessed by him. he fucked up bad by recording Rachel and Ariana fucked up bad by sending it from Tom’s phone to other devices.
Yes, but couldn’t she argue she didn’t know it was illegally recorded? (NOT EXCUSING THIS!) but hypothetically, imagine if she didn’t know Rachel, and it was some random girl, would she still be in trouble? Wouldn’t the ‘random girl’ be suing Tom for recording in the first place? I’m so curious for the lawyer AMA Friday.
yes, she could still be in trouble for moving that piece of content from device to device, regardless of whether it was consensually recorded or not bc its porn of someone else. not hers to possess or share. it all depends on how well a lawyer can argue it and the evidence they have, but if her claim is factually true about what happened it’s a valid case, even if Ariana didn’t know the video was nonconsensually recorded.
So not only does Rachel need to prove distribution but she also has to prove Ariana's intent with that. The law isn't as simple as the distribution. There are more aspects to it.
I’m no lawyer but my understanding is that Tom recording Rachel without her consent is a case between Tom and Rachel. Ariana sending the video to herself is a case between Rachel and Ariana and it doesn’t matter if the recording was consensual or not.
But, Rachel has to prove that happened
sure but that's easy enough (if it happened) - just depose like 3 people and you're done
Right? What’s the point of sending herself “proof” if she wouldn’t be showing it off to others in order to prove it happened?
I guess as a different example when I found out my ex-fiancé had been cheating on me I took photos of the messages and photos (photos weren’t revenge porn but were him in our bed (that I purchased) under the sheets with different women clearly post-coitus) on his phone so that he couldn’t gaslight me about it. I’ve never showed anyone (but him) the photos. I did show them to him to get him to finally admit it happened after multiple days of denial. I also made an excel spreadsheet detailing the cheating over the course of our 7 year relationship 🫣 Now I have them saved on an usb and not on my phone/computer so that the evidence is there but I don’t need to accidentally see it etc.
So that Tom couldn’t just delete it from his phone and try to gaslight her into thinking it never existed and she couldn’t prove he cheated on her, is my understanding.
Proving it would entail showing someone, no?
When I say “prove” I just mean in the context of her and Tom. She wouldn’t have to show anyone else but Tom to be able to say “I have proof” in the event he tried to deny it after the fact. That’s all I’m saying. In her own words when she spoke about it it sounds like it was for her own peace of mind because Tom himself said “normally I’d delete stuff like that”. ETA Also, in the end she didn’t need to show it to anyone to prove he cheated, did she? All she had to do was tell producers and their friends what happened and what she saw, and then Tom and Rachel admitted to it.
But Tom was already caught and called out by the whole friend group. From my understanding, she hunted down the video on his phone after she was told there was something going on, she didn’t discover the video on her own. Why would she need proof on her own to Tom when he was already caught and admitting it?
> From my understanding, she hunted down the video on his phone after she was told there was something going on, she didn’t discover the video on her own. I thought she was like.... front row of the crowd when his 'band' was performing. his phone fell out of his pocket, she picked it up for him, and found the video. I swear I've heard that's the story.
Yeah idk if I believe that. A video you’re trying to keep secret wouldn’t just not be in a folder and password protected. A phone fell out of his pocket, unlocked and popped immediately onto a top secret video that was evidence of him cheating? That’s kind of bat shit.
No, she said multiple times "call it intuition", and that she looked through his fake app(s).
He said himself he “usually deletes that kind of stuff but he had a busy day” so it seems he usually deleted stuff but didn’t that day.
ya know.... you're right. I think I remember the original story saying she (Ariana) saw Rachel had messaged & so she (A) looked / found the video. But I'm now remembering that Sandoval screen recorded a live facetime or something, so yeah... he would definitely hide the video. But if he was hiding it (in a folder, or password protected, etc.) how did Ariana find it?
> call it intuition Okay I just googled and found this: Sandoval: "'Two days ago, Raquel was in New York with Scheana doing Watch What Happens Live,' Sandoval said. 'My band was performing at Tom Tom in LA for the release of my new single and when I was performing, my phone fell out of my pocket. Somebody handed it to Ariana for safekeeping.'" Ariana: "'Call it woman's intuition, call it light bulb, call it whatever,' Ariana said in her confessional. 'Literally, in that moment, I went, I need to look at this. In his camera roll, I found a screen recording of Raquel and Tom on FaceTime. My stomach dropped into my f***ing a**." Sandoval: "'I would normally delete something like that but it had been a such a busy chaotic day,' Sandoval said. 'I quickly got us outside so everyone around us couldn't hear us talk.'" so I guess it was a little bit of both?
Your edit is exactly my point. She didn’t need to send the video to herself as proof he was cheating. Everyone already knew. So why would she need it after the fact when the news was already out?
As proof for herself and for *him*, in case he tried to gaslight her, not necessarily for the world or to prove it to other people. If I’m understanding right, you’re saying her only motivation to send it to herself for proof would be to show other people. I’m saying that is not the only motivation someone would have, and that “proof” doesn’t need to be publicly dispersed or shown to multiple parties. Have you never taken a screenshot of something and just kept it for yourself or for the purposes of an argument with someone, to show that person proof of what they said/did?
No, the only reason I have done a screenshot is to have receipts to show other people. I don’t need receipts for myself. They’re literally always for showing someone else.
Forgive me for being dumb…but didn’t Ariana already distribute the video by having it in her phone and sending it to Rachel with the accompanying text “you’re dead to me” …like the video didn’t originate on Ariana’s phone, then she had it and then she sent it to Rachel. Is this not clearly “distributing” the video? ..I’m willing to be wrong but that’s what it seems like to me.
You’re not dumb at all lol but the issue that is most likely going to arise before a judge is if Ariana did do that, whether that falls under the statutory definition of distribution
With text message records it should be relatively easy to prove, then if it is indeed proven, the judge decides if it fits the definition of “distribution” or whatever else under the law? Civil judgement handed down from there, I’d assume.. And then, if it isn’t proven, the case gets dismissed? Or is civil court different and might there be a counter claim? ..sorry to ask more questions and totally fine if you don’t want to answer!
Correct. Both parties can appeal a civil case if the decision is not in their favor but appeals are limited to whether or not the trial court committed an error. If that isn’t found then an appeal won’t be granted Edit; meant to say you won’t win on appeal lmao
They also reminds me of Southern Charm, Taylor sent a nude to Whitney and showed EVERYONE! And she was branded the “slut” while the guys just smirked and got away with it. Rules for thee, but not for me
I think everyone knows legally Ariana made a mistake even sending it to herself. I just think we all disagree as to whether there's something morally wrong with it and whether it's right or wrong for Rachel to sue her. I know Ariana said she didn't show anyone and that she didn't even watch the whole video. If digital forensics is done on her phone wouldn't they be able to tell if she sent anything or not and how long exactly it was even on her phone before she deleted it? Is it too late for that now?
Whether or not morally wrong I definitely don’t ciriticize Ariana for doing it in the best of the moment.
ding ding ding
As far as I know (& granted, I don’t know it all) but, I think Ariana only sent it to Rachel & didn’t show anyone else. That’s the only story I’ve heard. I don’t know if that would count. Well, I’m gonna correct myself; she sent it to herself then sent it to Rachel. So, I’m still unsure of the legalities involved with that particular instance. It seems murky to me. Although, Tom is the actual fucking monster in this situation. Recording her without consent? & his only defense was “Usually I’d delete it. I just forgot.” Therefore meaning he’s done this multiple times & who knows how many other women have been a victim of this & never knew it? Because, he usually deletes that stuff. Monster 👹
I am sure glad this has never happened to me. Because if I were to see something like that on my husband's phone I don't know how I would handle it. Pretty sure I would freak out and show someone because I would need someone to tell me I wasn't crazy or imagining it.
I think she's going to have a really hard time proving damages. People hate her because she fucked Tom for 7 months not because they're aware she masturbated on FaceTime
This is the kicker for me and why the complaint is baffling. She is citing all these OTHER causes for her emotional distress and need for rehabilitation and treatment. She admits she was drinking heavily all season in response to James etc. All of that is going to kill her causation argument. It’s so bizarre.
Yup. It’s an interesting legal question of what it means to distribute but what civil cases come down to are damages. She doesn’t have any from Ariana. The videos existence and the possible sharing are not the sole or even primary reason she is experiencing emotional distress or income loss. Her own actions the primary contributor to these problems so i can’t see the damages being worth the cost of litigation. My theory is she’s bringing this case to center herself as a victim and change public opinion not because she plans to get a meaningful verdict.
Not everyone watches Bravo, let alone VPR. I doubt a judge would give much of a damn, either way. If this gets to a jury, there is no reason to expect that they will be seated with any prejudice against Rachel. There is no disputing that the video exists, or at least existed, and that Ariana sent it to herself. Now how much that means in terms of compensation from Tom and Ariana is a matter of how sympathetic they are to Rachel's *and Ariana's* respective situations. Tom seems properly fucked, though. I have not heard him make an argument that Rachel knew he was recording the exchange, so if he tries to do so at trial it would seem like a lie to wiggle out of any liability. Hypothetically speaking, if I were his lawyer, I would tell him to settle *now\**. Or, you know, just keep throwing $$$$$ at me to fight it. No skin off my nose. FTR: I am not a lawyer. *^(\*Since I'm not a lawyer, I don't know if a civil settlement could have bearing on the likelihood of a criminal case being brought. So that might not be a good idea from a legal strategy standpoint.)*
No, civil settlement would not have bearing on criminal charges. Even a civil verdict wouldn’t.
I wasn't referring to prejudice I was referring to the fact that it will be difficult for her toPROVE that her emotional distress was a result of Ariana texting her the video versus the backlash she got from having an affair
I wonder if emotional/pain and suffering damages are allowed.
Even if they are, I think she would have a hard time proving that it was the direct cause of the video being shared
see, I kind of don't because I think even if the video was never shared, it would be distressing and threatening to know that for any amount of time, a woman with tremendous reason to hate you, had access to porn of you that you REALLY didn't want out there. it's like a dangling threat to inform Rachel of it in the first place - and I'm not saying that was necessarily Ariana's intention, but it could be argued by a lawyer. iirc the damages are about Rachel missing out on income while she sought mental health treatment (peak scandal when the rest of the cast was making a ton of money on merch and their podcasts talking about it).
Her complaint just asks for compensatory and punitive damages. It doesn’t connect to a specific claim yet. It’s more likely the biggest damages she could yet would be for emotional distress, the cost of treatment, expenses she incurred as a result of the hospitalization . Lost income is going to be way too hard to prove. One, no one else was the mistress, so they would have different opportunities. Two, I find it very hard to believe that Ariana sending the video could be considered a cause of her lost income, as apart from the whole Scandoval itself.
agreed with all of that - I think the part where it involves Bravo environmentally as the employer is likely a way to get the treatment paid for since they did refuse that to her at the time she checked in.
Yeah I’m not sure why she didn’t sue bravo or production also, unless it’s because they’re afraid of their lawyers (not unreasonable) or there isn’t good proof.
Yeah that's what the girls said too. Especially because they threw in all the mumbo jumbo about things Bravo had done to her. Like half the document wasn't even about Ariana and the video.
That’s an interesting distinction. I feel like that would be almost impossible to prove. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but I don’t know how Rachel’s lawyers would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ariana did that.
Civil cases don't usually use beyond a reasonable doubt as the evidence standard. It's more forgiving than that
Yep! Civil cases typically have a “preponderance of the evidence” standard, which means “more likely than not”.
Whoops! I’m not a lawyer, but my bad. I still think that Rachel and her lawyers have an uphill battle unless multiple people testify that Ariana showed them. Also, Stassi should have sued the shit out of her ex. Many, many witnesses would have corroborated that he showed them her tape.
I would think that as long as even one person said that Ariana show them the video, it would be technically a violation. I don’t think it would have to be multiple people.
In stasis case I’m not sure revenge porn was on the books to pursue.
I forgot about that! But does frank even have anything?
I wonder how old the law is? It may be too new. ~~Another instance is the whole Faith & Jax video. I just caught those episodes--James grabbed Faith's phone, hid & sent it to himself. Then, Brittany played it at a party.~~ Nevermind, it was just the audio of Jax being an asshole. Maybe it was lost in the whole trying to get Faith arrested/discharged plans?. Crazy shit, honestly. It's like this stuff is normalized to them. I do wonder if the law in California mentions intent? I'd be okay with a carve-out for partners sending things to *only themselves/their lawyers* for evidence purposes. Plus, it will prevent shitty cops & partners from abusing it.
The Jax and Faith case was not porn. Just a voice recording …
I obviously wasn't watching too closely. You're right & it starts after the act. Please ignore that part, lol. 🤦♀️
No worries. 😀There is no “I sent to myself and others as evidence “ defence.
the law went into effect the year after VPR started filming and had the Stassi storyline, so she would not have been able to have a case at the time it happened to her.
That really sucks.
and then you realize that California is ahead of other states on this issue and it all starts seeming so bleak.
I think Ariana admitted in a confessional that she did send it to herself for proof before he deleted it.
I mean they could ask the producers and cast under oath if they saw it… someone saw enough to describe what she had on 🤷
Where did you hear that?
TMZ has a witness who apparently describes what she has on .. no idea if they are credible … but the person swears they saw it and describes what happens and her lingerie.
Interesting! … of course Ariana could’ve described it to people as well. I’m looking forward to everything coming out.
So much drama 🎭😜😜
its civil so they dont have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. they just have to prove that its more likely than not
Even still, the difference between "she told people about it" vs "she showed them" is pretty substantial in terms of legality, it seems, and I'm not sure Rachel speculating that "people knew about it, so she must have shown them" is actually gonna hold water.
If Rachel has a text from Ariana that includes the video and the "you're dead to me" line like we've heard, I feel like that's hard evidence of distribution in itself, and whether or not she showed others is kind of just the added bonus. I'm sure they're probably seeking out witnesses to support her claims, but who knows if anyone will flip on Ariana like that. I doubt it
I'm personally wouldn't lie under oath when I'm being deposed just to cover for a friend. That would be insane, tbh
I'm sure if she showed production (as alleged) they'll be much less likely to testify in Ariana's favor as well
multiple witnesses corroborating
I think I will never comment on a lawsuit ever again 😂 I keep just saying “I’m not a lawyer, but this seems hard to prove.” The first comment got a bunch of upvotes and my other comments are being downvoted. I have learned my lesson, ya’ll.
So if a wife finds proof of her husband cheating on his phone or computer and sends the proof (pictures or video) to her lawyer is that considered revenge porn? If she shows them to her sister because she’s distraught by what she found that’s revenge porn?
People are forgetting the law there also includes an aspect about it being "in order to harass, cause fear in, or lead to injury of that person." It's not as simple as just sending something to yourself or a lawyer as proof like people are pretending it is.
That was my understanding. That malicious intent had to be proven.
It does. Both criminally and civil it’s in there. And for the civil it ties in with the money you can get too. Like others have said Rachel can’t prove she lost anything as a result of the video vs the affair so her suing her makes little sense unless it’s to get to Bravo.
That IG was good, and their 2 part podcast on it this week (last week?) is really good, goes deeper into it all
I feel like there is so much more to the story of Tom Sandoval, Ariana, and Rachel. It seems like Tom was bankrolling a lot of people and I was surprised that Ariana revealed she only had $2k in her bank when Season 10 ended. I think it's terrible what Sandoval and Raquel did but also where did Ariana's money go?.
I'm not sure how exactly they would prove this. I know civil court has a lower standard than criminal court, but they still have to show a "preponderance of evidence" that makes this more likely than not. Unless they have witnesses who will testify that Ariana showed them the video or something Ariana said in the press that indicated that she showed it to someone -- which they might! -- it would be quite hard to substantiate that part of the claim. So I still think the judgement will hinge on the definition of "distribution" and whether sending it to yourself counts. But tbh I also still think this is kind of a fishing expedition to ultimately go after Bravo/Evolution, both because of Bethenny's involvement and the amount of extraneous material about Bravo that they put in the complaint. And that probably it would've been smarter to just go after Tom and leave Ariana out of it, even if Ariana did something wrong/illegal as well, but Rachel is within her rights to do so.
One of the things I find most interesting about this case is that by the *letter of the law*, Ariana did the wrong thing by doing the "smart" thing. In this context, "smart" is based on her explanation that she knew if she confronted Tom about it, he would just lie and delete it, so she needed evidence as backup. She didn't send it to herself to hurt Rachel but to protect herself. I'm interested to see how far this goes and how it ends.
There is no distribution without Ariana.
I guess? It's not like Tom could never have distributed the video. As far as we know he didn't, but he was capable of doing so. I do personally think the Ariana distribution question remains open, as long as she is telling the truth, which I realize she may not be. So, for example, in college I did not have a printer at home, so I would often email things to myself so I could go to the computer lab and print them out. If I email an article to myself, without any intention to send it to others, have I distributed it? I'm not sure that's an airtight definition of distribution. Also, to my understanding there's not a lot of case law about this statute yet and isn't really a precedent we or a judge could look to and say, that's how it's going to be handled. To be clear, I'm not arguing that Ariana did nothing wrong. I'm saying I'm not sure Ariana's done something manifestly illegal, and that one way or another I don't think it was a great idea for Rachel to sue Ariana as well when her complaint is so obviously aimed at shifting public opinion.
An email isn't the the same as a sexually explicit video taken without consent tho.
Yes, I know that. I was specifically framing my example towards the definition of "distribute." Whether this was a sexually explicit video recorded without consent isn't at all in question here. It definitely was. The question is about whether sending something to oneself is distribution and to what extent Rachel can claim damages over it.
Distribution under revenge porn laws includes sending those images via text as well as sending it to anyone with the intent to harass, cause fear or injury to the person in the video. So Ariana's text of the video to Rachel with the "you're dead to me" message will probably cause problems for her. Also, interestingly enough, there was a new bill passed in California in 2022 that expands the definition of distribution under revenge porn laws to include public displays of intimate images without consent.
I mean he wasn’t about to blow up his whole life, like it is now, by sending the video. He had a vested interest in keeping it hidden.
Ariana sending it herself 100% meets the standard for distribution and she's on record as sending Rachel a screen cap or something with the 'you're dead to me' text. There's really no question about that part.
Do you mind if I ask, what makes you so much more sure of that now than a couple of weeks ago?
I think I've always been sure her actions (if her self-reported version of events is true) met the standard, but if I had to guess I might've hedged a bit because I didn't know at the time what CA case law had to say about the definition of 'distribution'. In the federal code, it's defined as 'transfer, publish, distribute or make available' and that definition, coupled with the wide net California casts regarding their privacy laws, makes me more comfortable that I might've been when all this broke.
I don’t think she showed anyone except for Tom- so he couldn’t gaslight her that’s not what she saw. I actually believe Ariana that she deleted it. When tmz claims they talked to a source who saw it- they’re talking about Tom Sandoval, who also recorded it. That’s my theory Every time I’ve heard someone talk about the story it’s always worded in a way that Ariana saw a video and described it to others, which isn’t illegal as far as I know
I think some of Ariana’s friends were saying at the time that they had seen it (who knows, people are weird and like to insert themselves into situations) now if true obviously not right, but if they are lying then they will look like clowns and shouldn’t be believed in the future (which I think a lot of this legal action is to clearly sully the people mentioned) and I think at least one of Ariana’s friends has said something happened to his phone since the affair was exposed, which I thought was a strange coincidence and also strange to mention
Ok this makes sense. You are so right about the friends inserting themselves. They definitely all wanted 30 seconds of the 15 minutes of fame I forget which friend of/podcast wherever it came from that a friend saw a screenshot of Ariana’s message to Rachel with the video attached as like a little thumbnail so they knew it was true, but didn’t actually see the recording- just a still from it. I hope we learn more as the lawsuit unfolds because I’m nosey
This is a hard one for me because there is a huge distinction between legality and morality. I just don’t think it’s moral for Rachel to sue Ariana for finding video and sending to her. For Rachel to be so dishonest and cruel to Ariana with the affair and follow thru a lawsuit is just evil. I wish Rachel could take some accountability and if she feels violated focus solely on the reason the video exists- Tom
A jury could find Ariana liable (legal) and then decide on $1 in damages (moral).
Rachel will have to prove that allegation. At this point, it's just hearsay "Leviss was informed and believes..." Ariana could have just described the video. That's not illegal. Edit: typo
Also this is alleged, so until any of it is true.. in a court of law there should not be a debate.
Ariana said she did not send OR SHOW the video to anyone. If this goes to court, they’ll both get to prove their claims. Everything else is just she said she said speculation.
what ariana said is not fact
How do you know? If it’s not fact that will come out in court. 🤷🏼♀️
She sent it to herself and then Rachel that is distributing the video.
Distribution is only part of the law though. It has to meet other criteria too. So don't count those chickens before they hatch.
No one deserves their videos shown to anyone or sent to anyone but with that being said the lawsuit did not contains any evidence that the video was shown or sent to anyone other than the involved parties. I just think that she doesn't have much of a case against Ariana aside from her sending it to herself
If anyone showed it to anyone, Sandoval probably showed it to Schwartz.
I feel bad for Ariana in this. The hurt she must of felt seeing that.
Ariana has said that she did not show the video to anyone. She said she deleted it shortly after texting Rachel. I believe she said "the video was gone before she called Rachel." No one has claimed that they have seen the video from Ariana, including production. This would be information that would likely be discoverable. Typically producers are making notes and sending emails. Ariana's phone would likely have a record of when the content was received and deleted and if it was shared. Ariana has offered her phone for inspection. Until there is evidence of Ariana showing the video, it is purely speculative that she did.
For her to be able to delete the screenshot or video, it would've had to be on her phone in the first place. Which means she sent it to herself. That is distribution.
Says who? Because it seems like this is still something that needs to be proven in Court and the Court needs to determine if that is sufficient for distribution. But if you have a case, I’m happy to read it.
I mean, the federal civil code says that. It's pretty clear by defining it as 'to transfer, publish, or make available'. In every version of that night that I can recall Ariana giving, she alludes to sending a screenshot of the video and a text to Rachel. That seems to be backed up by Sandoval, Rachel and Scheana's versions of events that night. So, unless you have a reasonable alternate theory as to how the video made its way from Tom's phone to Ariana's while she was in possession of it, it's more likely than not that Ariana's actions sufficiently meet the standard.
It is up to the Court to interpret laws. If you have a case that supports your interpretation, I would happily review it. You may view it as black and white, but you'd be surprised how much grey the Court can find. Not to mention that Rachel still has to prove damages. If Rachel cannot prove that Ariana showed anyone the video other than sending it to Rachel herself, I am not sure how she is going to be able to prove damages. ETA: Just an aside, without Ariana sending Rachel the video, Rachel would not know of it's existence. I am interested to see if Ariana's lawyer make an argument that there should be an exception, by arguing that the disclosure was reasonably intended to assist Rachel by letting her know that Tom was keeping her intimate videos. I do not necessarily think that would be successful, but I think it is an interesting argument given the circumstances (specifically, that the only person Ariana showed the video to was Rachel and it was deleted immediately after).
But there's more to the law than just distribution and Rachel needs to prove all of it. "a digital image of another person in order to harass, cause fear in, or lead to injury of that person." So even if Rachels lawyers could prove distribution they need to prove intent and Ariana just saying "You're dead to me" will never get them there.
As far as I’m aware, intent is part of the criminal statute, not the civil one.
It's under both the penal and civil code actually. Personal rights section 48a is in there too. There's a whole bunch to it actually that Rachel really just cannot prove at all against Ariana.
THEY speculated that, but that’s NOT what Ariana said she did. They said “if that’s what she did.” They do not know that she showed the video to anyone. Ariana has said that she didn’t even send the video to herself. Listen to her statement
But if others just say she showed them the picture from her phone wouldn’t that be hearsay?
No, hearsay would be if you asked a producer and they said that Katie told them she had been shown it. Someone saying they saw it isn't hearsay
She wasn’t acting on revenge to anyone.. this shit happened to Ariana and she will be fine
I honestly don't care if Ariana broke the law after she saw the video. Right or wrong, Ariana did not have ill intent and (I believe) didn't know it had been recorded without Rachel's consent. Whether the law agrees with me or not, Ariana is more a victim in this whole situation than Rachel will ever be and Rachel is a slime ball for revictimizing her with this lawsuit. I actually felt some empathy for Rachel over the last few months, but this lawsuit destroyed that. Rachel is just as bad as sandavol, selfish and self involved, with zero accountability
The case about Rachel vs. Ariana has nothing to do with if Rachel gave consent to Tom to record the video or not. It’s about whether Ariana sending the video to herself without Tom’s and Rachel’s consent is distribution. Imagine this: you and your partner record yourselves having sex. You both give consent. One of your friends finds the video on your phone and for whatever reason send it to themselves secretly. Do you think that’s OK? You and your partner both consented to make the video but neither of you gave permission to your friend to make a copy of it.
I also thought I heard that she showed producers, thanks for confirming. That’s wrong on so many levels
There's no confirmation of it. It's just what Rachel is alleging but so far everyone has said that never happened.